Howard Griswold Conference CallThursday, February 11, 2010 Partial Howard Griswold Conference calls: 218-844-3388 pin 966771#

(6 mutes & un-mutes), Thursdays at 8 p.m., Eastern Time. 6 Mutes and un-mutes

Conference Call is simulcast on:

www.TheREALPublicRadio.Net Starting in the first hour at 8 p.m.

Note: there is a hydrate water call Mondays, same time and number and pin #. Howards home number: 302-875-2653 (between 9:30, a.m, and 7:00, p.m.)
Mickeys debt collection call is 8:00 p.m., Eastern Time, Wednesday night. The number is 712 432 8773 and the pin number is 947975#.

All correspondence to: Gemini Investment Research Group, POB 398, Delmar, Del. 19940 (do not address mail to Howard Griswold since Howard has not taken up residence in that mailbox and since hes on good terms with his wife he isnt likely to in the foreseeable future.) "All" Howard's and GEMINI RESEARCH's information through the years, has been gathered, combined and collated into 3 "Home-Study Courses" and "Information packages" listed at www.peoples-rights.com "Mail Order" DONATIONS and/or Toll-Free 1-877-544-4718 (24 Hours F.A.Q. line) Dave DiReamer can be reached at: notaxman@dmv.com Peoples-rights has a new book available from The Informer: Just Who Really Owns the United States, the International Monetary Fund, Federal Reserve, World Bank, Your House, Your Car, Everythingthe Myth and the Reality. Hell take $45 for the book to help with ads, but $40 would be ok which includes shipping ($35 barebones minimum) www.peoples-rights.com c/o 1624 Savannah Road, Lewes, Delaware 19958 ******************** Note Mickey Paoletta has a new study course starting June 3rd, Wednesday at 8 pm., Eastern Time. The course will last for six Wednesdays. The first session was held on June 3rd. Send the fee ($250 MO) to: Mickey Paoletta, 1771 South Meadow Drive, Mechanicsburg, Penn. 17055 Fax the MO and letter to Dianne and shell give you the tel # and pin #. Put study course in the subject line of the e-mail Diannes telephone number is 570-388-0938 Dianne fax number is 866-390-2344

Diannes e-mail is: djell@epix.net *************************** Often you can find a transcript or a partial one for the weeks call at the following website: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplelookingforthetruth ******************************************************************* When you arent talking please mute your phone!! It would be best if you mute your phone when you first come on, then un-mute it when you want to talk and then re-mute it. You can use the *6 button on your phone or use the phones mute button Speaker phones and cell phones are not desirable as they can chop up the call badly occasionally. If you are recording the call and leave the phone unintended, please mute!!!!! Note, on October 30th someone left the phone un-muted and coupled television audio into the phone making the conference call conversations very difficult. When you are not muted be careful of making noise such as breathing hard into the phones microphone or rubbing the mouthpiece or not reducing extraneous noise across the room. Cell phones can pick up wind noise when used outside and also if not in a primary reception zone can couple noise into the call. Excessive echoes and noise will terminate the conference call. Cell phones and speaker phones can cause echoes. Keep the call quiet, dont make Howard climb out of his mailbox and bop you one. ******************************************************************* Note: the telephone lines are usually quite noisy and therefore it would be prudent to slow your speech down otherwise your words and meaning will be lost. Suggestion to everyone (even Howard): Get a phone with a privacy or mute button. This is much more convenient than star-6 and more rapid to use. It can also be used as a cough button since it can be used rapidly. Try it, youll like it. ********************************************************************* [Jim] [Henry] Henry, Jim here. How you doing Jim?

[Jim] Ok. You sent an assignment into Washington, was it, a while back and you had some success? Am I correct about that? [Henry] No, I think it was somewhere around 95 or so I sent a security agreement to the IRS. They wanted me to go to their little kangaroo court down in Philadelphia and I

sent a security agreement financing statement, the assignment of account and commercial notice. [Jim] Very good. My question was, did you send that as an answer to a presentment they sent youin other words, you returned it to them? [Henry] They were trying to get me for $82,000 and they wanted me to take all kinds of records, titles, you name it, they wanted everything that I had and I sent that and I sent the commercial notice. [Jim] Oh, I see, so that was an answer to them rather than something that you initiated yourself. [Henry] Right, yeah, they kept sending me notices that you owe tax for such-andsuch a year and I kept sending them back to them with the neutral response and after a two or three months of that I guess they decided they were going to try to prosecute me. Well, with the security agreement and the commercial notice and the affidavit after I sent it to Philadelphia Federal Court three days later I got a notice of voluntary dismissal and one of the signatures on there was the assistant attorney general in the tax forum up there and he had his signature on it. [Jim] Oh, I see, very good. . . . [Bob] Howard, I got a question for review. When you sign, can you go over the instructions about how to sign mail in upper and lower case, also cover the subject of at arms length, when do you use that? [Howard] the simplest thing to do is if you get a document in the mail that youre supposed to sign look at how the name is spelled. If its spelled in all capital letters, you sign it in all capital letters. [Jim] You wouldnt sign you assignments in upper case, thoughright?

[Howard] The only part of the assignment you sign that as the secured party in regular script As the secured party on a security agreement you sign as the secured party with a regular signature but the debtor always signs in all capital letters in print because thats the only way you can make capital letters is in print. So you print the capital letters. So, the rule of thumb is any time the document has the name on it in all capital letters then you sign it in all capital letters. Now, when I go to the post officeIve said this many times and I dont know why it doesnt get through to peopleI dont like signing for certified mail. There is no need for you to send a package to Gemini Investments certified mail but every once in a while somebody does it but I dont sign it. They give me this little pink piece of paper and it has two lines on it, print the name here and sign the name here, so I print the name on both lines. Im not going to responsible for certified maillet the debtor

be responsible for it. Anytime with any kind of a government documentand most people do not realize that insurance of any kind is government. Its all an agency of the United States government. Banking is all an agency of the United States government. Medical is all an agency of the United States government. So, anytime you get involved in any one of the three things, if you insist on getting involved in them, I would stay the hell away from their doctors and their hospitals at any cost. Id stay away from their banking at any cost. And I have very little use or respect for insurance because theyre a bunch of cheats, usually. You dont get back what you should be getting out of them unless you fight like hell with them. So Id stay away from those kinds of things but if you have to have it in order to have the car on the road or something then sign it all capital letters because youre dealing with government, youre dealing with fiction. [Bob] Howard, if they ask, who signed for this, its in all capital letters, how would you address that if you went to your post office and you had to sign for it.? [Howard] Well, youre dealing with some idiot that has an education. They dont know enough to understand anything so tell them you dont have enough educationall you know how to do is print. [caller] Thats my alter-ego.

[Howard] No, dont tell them that. Youll start getting into a conversation with some idiot that wont know what to do and he wont accept what you do. You just tell them, thats a much as I know how to doI didnt go that far in school. [Bob] Very well put.

[Howard] One time we had a fit with some little stupid broad at a bank, the little teller, a nice girl, just a stupid little broad. She wouldnt accept the signature with the words, without prejudice under it. So, she said, I dont understand what that means. I said, well, my dear lady it just means we dont have any prejudice against your bank. Oh, ok, well take that. See how easy it is to deal with stupid peopledont try to teach them anything. Youre not going to teach these people anythingthey cant learn. Theyre little programmed idiots from schoolthe only thing they understand is the program. If they had no common sense and no intelligence to start with before they went to school they didnt come out of school with any common sense or intelligence. School does not teach either one of those things. It teaches a programthey teach people to follow the program. [Henry] Just like a computer.

[Howard] Yep. I swear that people really do have a computer keyboard on their back and somebody programs them every day to do their functions. Youd be amazed at how many idiots around here are out on the streets, today, after the governor declared a statewide emergency and restricted all travel on the roadways. 00:24:13.894 {01:14:10}

[Howard] This is rather interesting. I just discovered it today. Ive looked at the oath before but I never really paid attention to it. To me it wasnt important because I dont work for the government and I know that the government doesnt follow the oath and I also happened to, years ago, check into whether or not the oath was recorded in the records of government officials as it is supposed to be done according to the law and most of them are not recorded. So, most of these people that are in office today have probably never even taken the oath. Now, the president does but did you notice, I think it was Barack Obama that screwed it up. He had to go back and take it over because he said it wrong. [caller] That was because the Supreme Court justice gave it to him wrong.

[Howard] Yeah, the justice even said it wrong. Well, Ill tell you what, I checked into the oaths that are on file in the office where theyre supposed to be and most of those oaths were not the original proper wording of what theyre supposed to be. Theyve all said it wrongjust nobody picked up on it. It happened that somebody picked up on it with Barack Obama. A lot of the other ones were the same way but nobody picked up on it. Anyway, let me read this wording to you. This is from a book called The Constitution of the United States, its Sources and its Application by a Thomas James Norton. And right on the cover page in the front of the book it says, the oathtaken by all officers elected or appointed to civil or armed services. Now, everybody in government whether its the military, any branch of the military, or any position at allI dont care if its the little girl who sits at the front desk and just tell people where the office is located in the building or somethingshes working for government. She might be just as sweet and nice a little thing but she probably never took the oath but shes supposed to because shes an appointed official of government. And you know what? I would have to be curious if I was told to take this oath as to what these words mean and Id go looking things up. Id like to bet you that none of these people that ever took the oath ever looked up the words to see what they really meant. But heres the wording: I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Im sure that most people wouldnt even know what it meant about domestic. Im sure they understand but domestic they wouldnt understand. It goes on that: I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same. Now, whats that mean? Does that mean that I will adhere to every word of the Constitution because Im taking an oath to support and defend the Constitution? Thats what it said. And if I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same then I better understand what it means, shouldnt I? It goes on that: I take this allegiance freely and without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion.

Now, how many people would understand what that sentence means? How many people would realize that if they didnt understand what the entire Constitution said and meant that anything they did that would be outside of it would be an evasion of it? I would venture a guess that eighty percent of the activity of government today is an evasion of the Constitution and people are freely and willingly with no mental reservation at all acting outside of their constitutional limits and probably dont even know that theyre doing it, dont even realize that theyre evading the Constitutional requirements. It goes on to say: And that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter, so help me, God. How would you know what was faithfully executing the duty of the office unless you fully understood what it was all about? Guarantee you that at least eighty percent if not probably ninety-nine percent of the people that are in government today have never read the Constitution much less read a book like this one by Thomas James Norton explaining its sources and its application yet this book is available. It was written [Henry] Remember George was making a speech and he says, I dont care about the Constitutionthats just a piece of paperIll do what I want. [Howard] Um huh.

[caller] Its nothing but a blank, blank piece of paper, thats what he said. Thats what he said in November. [Howard] I dont know if I got a date here on this book. I dont see one. I dont know how old this is but I can tell you that the pages are brown in my copy. Its nothing new this books been around for years. And it explains each line of the Constitution. Now, Ill tell you where I got this book. A law professor at the University of Baltimore Law School gave me this book about twenty-five years ago. He heard me talking about different things to do with what was going on with government and the Constitution and he said, this might help you, and he handed to me and said, its yourskeep it. If I was going to take one of these government jobs I would want to know what I was allieging myself to, what I was swearing by God that I was going to do and faithfully and well discharging the duties of the office that I had whether the office I had was a greeter at the front door or a secretary or a clerk or an official of some kind. It wouldnt matter which one of those positions I took. I would be curious enough to want to know what am I really supposed to do. I dont want to be just told by some clown who thinks he knows what I should do and tells me how to do my job. Thats not enough because the job may be actually evading the actual law and I can guarantee you that most of the jobs being done by government today are evading the actual law because Ive told you before of court cases like Boyd v. United States about private property, about Fulton Light, Power and Heat Company v. New York. That is a precedent setting case that established the definition of the word, property, and in that definition established that definition to be that the purpose of government was to guarantee and protect the right of property. You cant have property unless its guaranteed that I have that right in the first place to acquire property and no sense in having that property if they

dont guarantee the right of that property to continually be executed by me as private property. [caller] Howard, I have a question for you. Did you find anything in there having to do with someone qualified and competent to receive the oath and then transmit it? [Howard] No.

[caller] Well, one of the things that we found here in Missouri was that someone in a position of responsibility who has the qualifications to receive the oath is an imperative. And if someone in the county fails to show uplets say a county commissionerfails to show up within thirty days of his own free will and under his own power to give his oath to, lets say, the county clerk then hes automatically out of office at the end of thirty days. [Howard] Yes, I have found that inwe looked it up.

[caller] Now, the other thing is the county clerk then if hes the one who receives the oath. And that is to elaborate just a little bit, they cant go to the city dump and have their buddy receive the oath and the other thing is whoever transmits the oath transmits it to the Secretary of State and the Secretary of State has it on file because its a written contract [Howard] city In the city governments its the clerk of the court thats located in that

[caller] I would say county clerk would probably be it or, yes, the city clerk. It has to be someone in a administrative position such as that. [Howard] [caller] In the state its the Secretary of States office that receives it The Secretary of State is one who receives it for filing at state levelyes.

[Howard] Right. And then for the federal government its the federal Secretary of State thats supposed to have it on file. [caller] But I had a reason that I mentioned this to you. I would assumeI wanted to bring it up for a little discussion. What we found here in Missouri is that if someone tries to transmit their oath to the Secretary of State, guess what they do with it now, they send it back and tell him to hang it on his wallthey dont want it. [Howard] Yeah. And I checked into this a little bit further to find out if there was anything we could do about this. [caller] Well, I believe its breach of contract.

[Howard] Well, yeah, it is and we could sue them for breach of contract but thats a civil action and we can do that but if were going to be lazy and let government take care of things for us which is what we generally seem to be. There is somebody in government who is supposed to make sure that these things are done and it turned out [caller] Thats true.

[Howard] Its the attorney general. And I found state statutes that put the burden on the attorney general to prosecute any government official who does not have an oath properly filed and properly taken. Well, guess what I found out about the attorney general he never took the oath. [caller] [Howard] [caller] Association. Thats right. So hes not going to prosecute anybody else for not having one. The only oath that these guys have right now is the oath to the BAR

[Howard] Thats about the only one they have and Im not even sure they did that one correctly but I doubt if it matters even to the BAR Association that they did it correctly. As long as they follow the directions of the BAR Association [caller] Howard, whats the recourse for suing the attorney general?

[Howard] Well, any one of them is liable under that document that we prepared years ago called the acceptance of the constitutions, both state and federal, and the oath of office of the above-named government official and we spread that thing around and a lot of people have used it, thrown it in front of a judge and were had amazing results putting it in front of some judges. Some of them said, I could care less. And other ones have said, yes, I understand what youre saying, and, boy, did they rule properly. One little silly case up in Southeastern Pennsylvania, the strangest place in the world because thats a moron area of people including the politicians up there and the judges but this fellow presented it to the judge and he said, I understand. The judge said to the prosecuting attorney, do you have any witnesses against this young fellow? The prosecuting attorney said, were just going to put him on the stand, and the judge said, you cant make him testify against himself. Do you have any witnesses against him other than using himself, and the prosecuting attorney responded, no, and the judge said, in that case this case is dismissed. He wasnt going to let them do what they normally do and use you to testify against yourself. [caller] What did he bring?

[Howard] The document that we prepared called Acceptance of the Constitutions and Oath of Office of the Above Named Official.

[Dave]

Thats called a Notice of Acceptance.

[Howard] Yeah, but that document states within it that they are in breach of the contract and can be sued under breach of the contract for any deviation from the intent of the Constitution and nobody follows through and sues them. So, as long as you people are not going to do anything, again, I really dont care. Ill put the information out. Ill try to teach you what Ive learned whether its about the Bible, about the ancient history, about the modern times and the modern language and how its been altered, what the law says, what the court cases say, Ill put it out there, Ill teach it to you, Ill keep on doing this, but if you dont do something to follow up on these things its your fault what continues to happen. We need to go after every government official and I think its going to happen shortly. Were going to have an election coming up here in November and a lot of the scum that have been in there are going to get thrown out. [caller] How about police officers?

[Howard] What do you mean, how about police officers, they have a bigger duty to be correct in their conduct than anybody else in government because theyre on the streets dealing with the people directly. Yeah, Ive been after the cops for years. Ive been telling the cops, Id kill fifteen of you assholes if I thought it would teach the rest of you something. But you know what, youre all too God damned stupid to learn anything so I wouldnt even bother to waste the bullets. [caller] Well, they have to swear an oath, too, dont they?

[Howard] Yeah, they do. And if you check at the county or city or state levels, whatever type of police they are on their oath youll find out the wording in their oath is not the one that theyre supposed to takeit leaves out part of the words. [caller] All I got to do is go to the county and check on the records?

[Howard] Yeah, but dont bother, youre wasting your time. I dont care whether they got an oath or not, if theyre in government theyre supposed to be doing what the Constitution restricts them from doing and allows them to dowording in the Constitution. When they violate your private property theyre in breach of the Constitutionsue them for it. And its a simple case. As a matter of fact, we sent a form out for how to do a breach of contract case along with that document. As a matter of fact, all of this stuff is available through Daves website, www.peoples-rights.com . Daves got that on there, its available. You can get all that information on the document that we prepared that accepts the constitutions. And, by the way, that was very, very important. Im sure the American people have no knowledge whatsoever of this Constitution and how it got there. But it had nothing to do with the American people. It never applied to the American people. We did not ratify it and we did not accept it. It is not our Constitution as so many stupid people say constantly, our Constitution. Its not yours. Its the governments Constitution. It was set up by the state governments to establish a parent corporation called the United States of

America and it was ratified by state legislatures. It was never ratified and accepted by the American people. It was never even given to the American people to be accepted. [Dave] The court so in in re Merriam. The court said, people cannot use the Constitution because they are not a party to it. [Howard] Thats right.

[Dave] Go to the website (www.peoples-rights.com) and you go to the mail order page and print out the mail order page and then check off or circle the particular information package which Howards talking about which is the Notice of Constitutions and Oath of Office and the licensing offer to government to use your private property on condition that government pay you for the use of your property and once youve served that licensing offer [by] certified mail as proof if they continue to use your property such as send you at tax bill you can send them a bill or statement of amount due for their unlawful use of their private property after having been served the licensing offer. By their use of it they have accepted the contract and they owe you the money. All you do I send them a bill and then send them a thirty day notice that they havent paid it. You send them a sixty day notice that they havent paid it and then you send them a ninety day notice that the ten-day right to cure has expired and they have failed to correct the cure and you can go to the court clerk and get a default judgment based on that contract and those three notices to pay the bill based on the contract. [Howard] The bill is for breach of the contract. In reality what weve done here is circumvented the oath of office. It is fruitless to bring up the oath of office other than the fact that it ties this government moron to the Constitution. He is supposed to by law have that oath so were going to presume that he does. I dont give a damn if he didnt do it the right way, if its not filed or if he never took the oath. We dont care. The law says hes supposed to have done that so were going to presume that he did take the oaththat it is filed correctly, that it is done in the right language. Were going to presume that thats all right and then were going to sue him for breach of the contract because he didnt follow what his oath to the Constitution said that he was going to do faithfully and truthfully execute his office. He used his office to steal our private propertythats a breach of the contractisnt this simple? Ive talked about it many times before but I never really related it to the wording of the oath that says that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. I will faithfully and well execute and discharge those duties. Boy, oh boy, you know what, if they came to me and offered me a job as being the primary advisor to the President of the United Statesthats a pretty highranking job, I dont want to be presidentbut if they came to me and offered the job of being the advisor to the President and I had to take this office, Im afraid Id say, no, because Im not sure I know enough yet about this Constitution and what the limitations are in it, what the rules and regulations of the Constitution establish for government to be able to do things. I got a general understanding of it but Im not sure I know enough about it. Id be afraid of making a mistake and doing something wrong and advising the President the wrong way. As much as I know about it Id still be afraid that I dont know enough. I like most of the rest of you people that are on this call, we have integrity, we have decency

about ourselves. We wouldnt be on these calls, we wouldnt be doing what were doing if we didnt have integrity and decency about ourselves. I think every one of us, if we really thought about what I just said would reject a government job realizing that we dont know enough about what its supposed to be. The history has been lost. The knowledge of what it meant has been lost. It has been perverted by the changes of the meaning of words. It is so convoluted today Im not sure we could ever bring it back to right. Thats why I think the government ought to be abolished. [caller] Thats what theyre trying to dotheyre trying to abolish it now.

[Norman] Howard, the Constitution cannot touch we the peoplethe tenth amendment says that. All rights are reserved for the states and for the people. [Howard] We discussed that a couple of weeks ago. The people have the last word. We have the right to nullify anything that they do that is not within their Constitutional authorities. We dont do it. [Norman] The point I want to make here, the only way we end up in court is if we injure somebody, physically violate their rights or propertyinjury, thats a legal term injure somebody then they can turn around and sue us but if an officer stops us on the highway for speeding there is no victim but they still give us a ticket. breach of contract. We talked about that before. [Howard] In the days of old that was called highway robbery which means these cops are a bunch of thievesthey dont know it. [Norman] [Dave] [Norman] A victimless crime and theyre ruining this country with a victimless crime. Today, its called piracy on the high roads for highway Ill agree with you.

[Howard] And its highway robbery in a lot of other ways too. The little moron that comes around and tells you, you got to paint your rain spouts because the paints chipping and if you dont youre going to be fined and then they apply the fine because the weathers been bad or your moneys tight and you dont have enough money to go buy the paint or pay somebody else to do it because youre not even capable of climbing up a ladder and doing it and theres a lot of people that are not capablethey need to pay somebody else to do something like that and they just dont have the money so they get fined. So, theres another thief thats stealing money from you because hes interfering with your private property. You take these jobs in government and some idiot tells you what your job is and what to do and you follow the directions that they send you in and youre violating the law with every damned thing you because they dont understand the law.

[caller] Ive always been suspicious of people standing up and pledging allegiance to the flag instead of allegiance to the Constitution. [Howard] Yeah. And, by the way, that shows you how stupid the American people are, they call it the American flag and yet they pledge their allegiance to the flag of the United States. Is it the United States flag or the American flag? Which is it? Now, dont expect me to give you an answer. I have my own opinion of it but Im not going to answer that question because I dont think its the American flag at all. I think it is the United States flag. It was formulated, put together by some very lovely lady, Im sure she was, in the midst of a battle where the United States was at war with England for the benefit of the United States, not for the benefit of the American people. It was the newly formed government in this country that was fighting with the government of England. It was a government battleit had nothing to do with the American people. [Henry] gold fringes. [Howard] Code. [Henry] [Howard] There are two flags. You got one which is the international flag with the Thats the military flag is you go look it up in Article 4 of the United States I just said internationalmaritime Military flag.

[Norman] I understand that the flag in the courtroom with the fringe nullifies the Constitution in that courtroom [caller] [Norman] [Howard] [Norman] [Henry] [Norman] conquered nation. Yes, conquered nation. Thats exactly what it means. Every courtroom has it. So you look at the Constitution in the courtroom. All your schools, all your government buildings have that flag. Yes, they are, every one of them.

[Howard] By the way, in case you never noticed, so do the churchesanother reason why I dont deal with religions or have anything to do with any religion of any kind. [Norman] This is the New World Order people tightening more and more the noose around our neck getting that four-colored flag all over the country. [Dave] And its so simple to get out of it.

[Howard] Well, it is simple and the simple thing is just the filing with the Secretary of State who keeps track of corporation records that you are relinquishing your agency residency status with the corporation, state of, and the United States and thats all we have to do. But its not that simple. When you get into a courtroom and you try to tell them that they dont have any jurisdiction or authority over you because youre not one of their agents or residents anymore, the judge will say something like, I dont know what you mean, what are you talking about, explain that. And when you cant explain it hell just proceed on as though you never did a thing. [Dave] Thats why its much better to just return to sender any papers, envelopes or documents that they give you. If its not to your state spelled fully out in all lower case with no numbers its not for you. They constantly trick people by sending stuff to fictions, to two-capital letter fictitious federal zones and numbered fictitious zones called zip code zones and fictitious state of blankwhatever, fill in the name of your stateand if you dont know the difference between actual and make believe youre in bad condition. Live people do not live in a fiction state of anything and they dont live in a two-capital letter fictitious zone or numbered fictitious zone and if the people sending you these documents and bills and papers cant spell the state out fully in all lower case with no numbers I recommend you do not commit mail fraud and identity theft by keeping those documents. Send them back the way Howard teaches with the neutral response, number one. [Howard] And dont let them get away with identity theft by them stealing your identity under the pretense of these documents with capital letter spelled name and these fictitious addresses. Send it back and use that neutral response letter and use it the way Ive told you to use it and send it backnot certified mailjust send it back with their address as a return address and their address on the front of the envelope and no comment other than what it says in the neutral response. I inadvertently received this document. I dont know what its all about so Im returning it to you. Dont put any stupid comments in there that its fraud or its deception or its not me or anything like that because, then, youre starting to make an appearance in their scheme of fiction by arguing with them, by creating some kind of a conflict against what theyve said. Just send it back neutrally, I inadvertently received this documentI dont know what it is all about so Im returning it to you. Youre not conflicting with them when you do that. [Henry] If anyone wants a copy of it all they have to do is send me a self-addressed stamped envelope and I will send you a copy of it. [caller] [Henry] = Del.) [caller] [Henry] Whats your address? P.O. Box 273, Delmar, Delaware 19940, thats Henry Miles. (abbreviation Ok, thank you Henry. Youre welcome.

[caller]

And what should we request, Henry?

[Henry] you dont have to request anything. Just send me a self-addressed stamped envelope and than Ill put the notice in and send it right back to you. [Dave] The neutral response #1 is what hes going to send you and the reason you want to have that is because you do not commit acceptance. Because its sent back they do not trick you into presumption of a contract. If you keep it there is a contract. If you send it back there is no acceptance and without acceptance there is no contract. If there is no contract they cannot hold you to the contract penalty clauses called code, title numbers and code section numbers. They cannot attach because there is no contract if you do not accept them. Thats why youve got to not accept them and send them back. [Howard] back? Why is it important, Howard, not to use certified mail when you send it

[Howard] Why in the hell would you use anything that implicates your name? If its a neutral response you do not send it back with anything that puts your name on it. Certified mail requires that you put your name and address. [Henry] [Howard] [Dave] By doing that youve accepted it. Yep. You stuck your foot in your own mouth. You can send it delivery confirmation and avoid that.

[Howard] I think you can but its not necessary to do anything but send it back because I was starting to say before he asked that question that weve used this for years and many, many times the people that were sending this stuff out to us, the American people, from government just stopped because they couldnt contact you. Every once in a while, they get pushy and theyll send a sheriff around to deliver some papers directly to your door. Well, thats when you have to know the rest of the follow-up on how to treat these things and how to argue these things and how to argue these cases in courts and thats why we go on teaching things like the rules of evidence that we talk about and why and how they cant come up with any evidence to prove their claim against you. And if you dont understand that, you probably wont beat them when you get to court if you have to go to court. But the way to avoid it from the beginning is to avoid it from the beginning. Dont stick your name in there anywhere. Unfortunately, this is what we were taught in school. They taught us how to write our name. They never told us that we shouldnt use it. I guess we got the idea that our name is very important and we should use it all the time. So, we do and they get us because we step right in and we accept things that come in that name. We dont know the difference between fiction and reality. Reality is a love letter I send to my wife that I sign with my script signaturethats reality. Anything I send to the government is a neutral response letter sending back anything they sent to me because what they sent me is not a love letterits got my name spelled in all capital letters.

[Dave] And it never came to you in Delaware spelled fully out. It always came to a place called DE with a bunch of zip zone numbers or the state of, Delaware Corporation and youre not in any of those three. [Howard] This is why the mailing address that I use for you people to send the stuff to me is Gemini Investments. I dont use my name on the post office box. I dont live in that post office. A fictional name, Gemini Investments, lives in that post office. Well, a fiction will live in a post office real easy. Im a real person. I dont fit in a post office box. The post office is one of the fictional functions of government. If youre going to deal with that, deal with fictional namesdont deal in your own name. [Dave] The proof of what Howard says is that Internal Revenue Service sent some guy around to my house physically to present me with their invitations to give them money and I sent the papers back, delivery confirmation, with the neutral response and he got upset and had the computer out in St. Louis, Missouri, I think it was, start sending me the same stuff every two months and I sent it back in the same manner with the neutral response wording, delivery confirmation using their address both as the sender and the receiver and I began to, instead of putting the regular postage I began to put a two-cent stamp on the envelope so when they got the thing back they owed the postal service fortytwo cents so it quit coming altogether. I get nothing now from Internal Revenue Service at all, not every two months, not anytime at allever. But I did not fall for the acceptance trap because I sent everything back and I had proof, either delivery confirmation or certified mail stub that it had been sent back and I did not fall for that acceptance trap so there was no contract so they could not charge me with contract penalty clauses called code title numbers and section numbers so they leave me alone. [Howard] [Dave] Yeah, Dave listens pretty well to what we find in the law. Im a dumb blockhead Dutchman so it took me thirty-two years to learn.

[Howard] Yeah, it took us all a long time to learn. It was hard to get this through our heads being we werent taught this way. [Dave] But, Howard, I was so dumb I sat in jail for two years and I never knew I was not even the defendant. [Howard] Nope.

[Dave] Their charges were against some all-capital letter name dummy corporation with a similar name as mine but I was so dumb I didnt know the difference between actual and make believe. So, I sat in there because the papers they sent to the all-capital letter name dummy that lives in a fictitious place called capital D, capital E, and a fictitious place called 11958 and, dummy, I opened up the papers and reacted and went into court and argued with them and sat in jail for two years because I was so stupid I did not know I did not live in the fiction state of Delaware and I did not live in capital D, capital E and I did

not live in number 11958 and they never sent anything to me or anything with my name on. It was strictly Delaware spelled full out in all lower case with no numbers. They never sent anything to me. I kept committing mail fraud never knowing the damned difference. Thats how stupid I was. [caller] Weve all been brainwashed and programmed.

[Howard] Youve learned. The only problem you have is you still hate the post office with such a passion that you insist on using it. Just put a stamp on it, put the damned thing in the mailbox. The postman will pick it up and deliver it. You dont need the certified mail. You dont need the deliver confirmation. You dont need to spend all that extra moneyjust mail it back to themit gets there. [Dave] Howard, dont forget that guy that went on the stand and lied under oath and said they got an empty envelope back from the people, certified mail. that thirdparty affidavit of mailing [Howard] That doesnt matter. I dont care what they say. Theres over a dozen court cases that say that if something was put in the mail it can be presumed that it was delivered and that they got it because the post office is ninety-five percent effective and I think thats a damned good rating because thats about the only thing in government that has a ninetyfive percent effective rating. [Henry] Howard, I beat the post office on that case that I had down here on five charges. I go and asked the woman from DOT, I said, how did you sent the so-called letter to me. Oh, by regular mail. But, do you have any proof that I ever received it? I beat her on that. [Howard] You could because she probably doesnt have a lawyer thats smart enough to Lawyers do not ever go and look up court cases. They hire people, they call them paralegals to do the work and theyre cheap, they often dont hire a paralegal to do the work so they just proceed on what little they know from court cases. But there are a dozen court cases that say that if it was put in the mail it can be presumed that it was delivered so that lady could have beaten you if she had a decent lawyer that taught her that. It could be presumed that it was delivered but there was no evidence or presumption that I received it. It could have been stolen out of my box. The only true way the could say that I received anything would be certified where I have to go to the post office and sign for itthats the only true record that they can presume that you received it. [Howard] [Dave] And if you people are smart you wont go to the post office and sign for it. Well, then youve got no proof that it was returned to sender.

[Howard] You dont need any proof that it was returned. Why in the hell are you so hard headed about that, Dave? It is to be done with a neutral response. Neutral means

youre not involved. It just came back to them from wherever they sent it. They sent it to the wrong placeit came back to them. [Dave] [Howard] You have no proof that you sent it. You dont need proofit came back to them because you never got it.

[Dave] Then theyllgot it and they will not admit that it came back to them. Youre not dealing with honorable peoplethey lie. [Howard] response. [caller] Most of the times we have no follow-up from them when we do the neutral I tend to side with Dave on this one based on my own personal experience.

[Howard] I disagree, you do not stick your stupid name on any of that stuff or indicate in any way that you cared about this piece of paper. [caller] [Dave] No, you dont have to stick your name on it. Thats correct. Were all in agreement.

[Howard] Why would you care enough to send it back paying all that money unless you got it. Youre sticking your foot in your own mouth. [Dave] Youre not saying its you that got it or you that sent it back. Its just being returned direct delivery confirmation. It has no name when its delivery confirmation or certified. [Howard] Every once in a while I go down to my post office box for Gemini and I pull out the mail and I always look through it because theyve done this quite a few times to me and I make sure its addressed to Gemini and every once in a while its addressed to somebody else and sometimes it even has a different post office box number on it. Now, would I care enough to come home and put that in an envelope and send it certified mail or delivery confirmation and pay $5.50 for delivery confirmation and priority mail? Why would I care enough to send that back to the post office when it was sent to a Jane Doe in a different box number? I dont care, I just take it back in and hand it to the postman. And the character we have here in Delmar, hes quite a guy. I handed it to him and I said, somebody put the wrong mail in my box. Oh, he says, we got a bunch of people that we hire here that cant read. Thats a hell of a note, in order to work in the post office youd have to be able to read. [Henry] The thing of it is with the neutral response, I have been using this ever since Howard first came out with it. I have had a lot of stuff come from the IRS and other people. I opened their envelope up to see whats in there. I put the neutral response, I put it in the

envelope with their return address and their regular address and I ship it back, no confirmation, no nothing, and it works. [caller] If you want to do that and not have them know about it that you have confirmation, it costs $1.10 at the post officeits called proof of mailing. [Howard] Ok, but why would I care to do that?

[caller] IN case they would haul you into court and say you never sent the stuff then you got proof [Howard] Why would you want to come into court later and say that you had proof that you sent it backnow youre admitting that you got it. How stupid can we be? [caller] It wasnt mineI just sent it backit didnt belong to me. I have proof that I did send it back. [Dave] [Howard] Youre missing the point I dont want proof that I sent it backdont you hear me?

[Dave] The point is the definition of acceptance says intent to retain. It does not say whether you sent it back certified or not or delivery confirmation or not. It says intent to retain. Retain means keep in your position. If you can send it back neutral response thats not committing acceptance. Youre not retaining it. [caller] Why would you want to do that?

[Dave] Because if you retain it theres a contract. If you send it back there is no contract because you did not commit acceptance by retaining. [Henry] [Dave] Well, thats what Ive been doing for years, Dave Then were all in agreement, arent we?

[Henry] No, were not because youre twisting things around. I send it back with their return address and their address, no confirmation, no certification. It gets mailed and it gets back to them. Why would I want to take and have proof that I sent it because now Im accepting it? Its the same damned thing. [Howard] Youre proving that you had a part in doing it. I dont want to prove that I had a part in doing it. I dont know where that letter went. I dont know who sent it back. [Dave] Well, the definition of acceptance has not changed. If you keep it thats retaining, thats acceptance.

[Howard] [Dave]

I agree. I agree 100% with that. Then you and I all agree.

[Howard] Well, thats why you sent it back with the neutral response and in no way do you implicate the fact that you sent it back. I dont want any proof that I sent it back. I dont know where the hell that letter went. I dont know who sent it back. [Dave] [Howard] [caller] [Dave] Thats why you never sign the neutral response. Yeah, the neutral response is not signed. Can the neutral response be used with the census? Anything.

[Howard] You know what, I hadnt thought of that, but, yeah. But what Ive told people in the census istheres a whole list of questions there. The first question is how many people are in this house or whateverlist their namesand Ill agree with that because thats what the census is for to find out how many people are in the area. [Dave] [Howard] [Dave] cooperate? For their voting. Yeah, for their voting purposes. If you dont vote and dont give a damn what they do about it, why

[caller] Well, how many people are in the jurisdiction that the legislative officials because they figure out how manywhat is itHouse of Representativesthey figure out how many House of Representative members can come from a certain area based on the population so thats what theyre looking for, the population. So thats all they want. [Dave] And since none of your students are citizens in the corporation United States why do they care? It doesnt apply to them. It doesnt apply to people who live in the state of, the fiction state of. It doesnt apply to the two capital letter designation that they sent the census form to and it doesnt apply to live natural people who live in the actual state with no zip code numbers but all those census forms always come to zip code numbered addresses with the two-capital letter abbreviations. [Henry] I have never filed a census. Ive never filled one out and I never intend to. That only pertains to the corporation. They dont pertain to me. [Howard] You could send it back with the neutral response or you could fill it in because they do determine how many House of Representatives delegates can be appointed

to a certain area. That was the purpose of the thing. It had nothing to do with how many bathrooms you have in your house, now much income you have [Dave] If youre not a tax payer you dont vote anyway.

[Howard] All the other questions that they ask on that census thing, there was a purpose for the census and it had a good purpose for government to determine how many representativesand, by the way, the House of Representatives supposedly represents the people. {Do they know that?} The Senate represents the government. The House of Representatives is supposed to look out for the best interests of the people against what the Senate wants to do for the government. Thats what the House of Representatives is supposed to be for. Theyre not supposed to be proposing legislation for the Senate to pass for the benefit of government to make more money off of health care or off of global warming or any other foolishness. This is why I tell you that these people who took the oath have no idea what they really took and what theyre supposed to be doing but thats because we have educated morons. Education has caused this problem. I think every school ought to be burned to the ground and unfortunately we ought to lynch every teacher. Im sure the teachers would object to that {theyre teaching population control so heres their chance to go first} but theyre teaching improperly, theyre causing the problem. I dont think wed have to lynch too many of them before the rest of them would quit being teachers. It would be a good idea to get rid of preaches and teachers because theyre all misleading us. [Dave] Theyd lose their NEA membership and their job.

[caller] House of Representative represents the people and the Senate represents the governmentright? [Howard] Right, thats the way it was supposed to be. It isnt today, theyre both representing the government and theyre doing everything they can to extort from the people for the benefit of the government. [Dave] At the orders of the BAR lawyer communists who are in charge of all them.

[Howard] The entire concept of this Constitution has been totally perverted for the benefit and profit of those that get themselves involved in government {especially for the ones with the deep pockets}. [caller] Howard, you have stated earlier that there are twelve case citings or case law for the mail delivery issue. Do you have any or where may I find some? [Howard] Google it. Go into findlaw.com and Google presumption of delivery of mail and see what you get. If you dont get it under presumption of delivery of mail just try mail presumed delivered or something like that. Just change the words around until you finally come up with the right words. Im not that much of a computer person. I dont get on there

and do that but I know that those cases exist because I have found them sitting in the law library which is where I prefer to go to look things up, not the damned computer. [Henry] Somewhere in my many, many boxes full of stuff Ive got all that stuff on the mail that Dave had years ago. I dont know where its at. I got boxes all over the place. [Howard] Yeah, I got piles and piles and piles all over the place.

[Joe] Howard, two things if I may but in here for a second, on the Constitution it says the people get to be counted as part of the census. So you dont have to list your name. They just want to know the number of people. [Howard] Thats all, you dont have to give the names, just the number. Two people live in this house. Fill that in. [Joe] On the mail situation, every time I get a utility bill and I send it out to pay it I use their return address. I dont put my return address so it has their own return address and their address on it and it always gets to them without a problem. [Howard] Sure it does, especially when you do it that way, its always going to get to them because even if it gets lost in the electronic and conveyer system that they have in the post office. Every once in a while it chews up an envelope or spits one off to the side or something. It gets lost for a little while. Three months later somebody finds it and it gets processed and finally it gets delivered. But it will always get delivered back to the original address if you put their address as the return address and their address on the middle where you normally put the address of where youre sending something to. It will always get back to them. Like Ive said, time and time again, I do not want proof that I returned it. I dont want them to know I got it in the first place. Im not the one they sent it to. Why would I want to prove that I sent it back? Its a neutral responsedont you understand neutral. Somebody sent it back. I dont know who the hell sent it backI never got it. [Joe] My point is though Ive been doing this for a long time and the stuff always gets to them so theres no need to have a certified piece of mail like you were talking about to send it back. [Howard] Thats right, and you dont want proof that you sent it back because you dont want to prove you ever got it and youre proving you got it if you prove you sent it back. Dont prove it. Thats not neutral. Damn, how complicated can this be to get through peoples heads? Anyway, lets get back to the crux of what I wanted to talk about. We keep getting off on this silly tangent here of proving that we sent it back. We do this quite often and it irritates me every damned time we get into it. The thing is supposed to be neutral so lets get off of the neutral thing. If you cant understand neutral send it back certified and take the responsibility for having received it if youre that stupid. Thats why I told Henry to mail this stuff out because Dave keeps putting this stuff on about proving you sent it back and I dont agree with that. Everything else Dave doesI work with him and I think the world of Dave. I appreciate all the things that Dave has done to help me get this

information out. Thats about the only thing I argue with Dave aboutit shouldnt be certified. But, anyway, lets get back to what I was trying to get into and the fact that these people such as the House of Delegates have no idea what their job is. They dont even know that they represent the people. They dont understand the Constitution. Just reading the Constitution is not enough either. You have to understand the history, the intent behind the history of the Constitution. These people that get elected, actually it seems to me that they get elected because they have an ego problemthey want to be a big shot. Im the Congressman, Im the President, Im the delegate of the House of Representatives, Im important. No, actually youre not. Youre a servant of the people. In any one of those positions youre a servant of the people. Barack Obama did his state of the union address a week or so ago and he made one very clear honest statement. The rest of his statements, Im not sure about the honesty in them but he made one very clear and honest statement and that was he has recognized that the American people are angry. Youre damned right were getting angry and more and more people are waking up and realizing that this thing has gone too far but they have no idea why. This is what bothers me. This whole thing could be resolved by the courts doing their job if we could find a lawyer, which you wont, that was honest and actually understood what the law was all about and brought cases properly into the court. One of the Supreme Court judges back in the 1970s was on television on some kind of an interview and he made a comment that a lot of bad decisions come out of the Supreme Court of the United States because the lawyers are incompetent to word the complaints properly. Back in the seventies several different US Supreme Court judges were interviewed and their interviews were aired on television and a number of statements like that were made. The Supreme Court judges were trying to help the American people and what they said went right over the heads of the American people because our heads are in the sand. Its easy to go over your head when your heads in the sand. Were too damned concerned about who won the Super Bowl or whos winning the basketball games or whos winning the bowling tournaments or whether or not the beers cold. We dont pay attention to what we should be paying attention to. We dont stand up against what theyre doing. We dont stop what theyre doing thats wrong. We just follow along and cooperate with what they want. And thats why were in the position were in. Its been going on for a couple different generations. About five or more generations have been doing this. Its our great, great, great, great grandfather faults, our great, great, great grandfathers fault, our great grandfathers faults, our grandfathers faults, our fathers faults and now its our fault because the fault has been passed down the line. Weve done nothing. It seems as people are beginning to wake up. Theres an awakening going on all across this country and, as a matter of fact, theres an awakening going on all over the world because in case you dont know the news because you dont get anything except what the American news tells you. The same kinds of things are going on in other countries and every once in a while they drop a little comment of things like the people in China who were standing up against the Chinese government, the people in Italy who stood up against the Italian government. This just happened about two or three years ago. The Italian government almost got eradicated. The people got so angry over there that they brought arms against the government. There was a little blurp in the US news reports from US news bureaus, very little, a short comment, but if you didnt pick it up, if you werent listening at the right time or you werent paying attention you didnt realize that there are groups in

every country in this world that are recognizing that their governments are doing the wrong thingtheir governments are out of control. So the groups here in this country are not alone in doing what theyre doing. Its going on all around the world in almost every country. Every countrys government is out of control. Every countrys government is on a paper money system except Switzerland who is playing both sides of the game. They got a paper money system and they got a solid money system. Theyre about the only one left thats still doing it with solid money. [Henry] The Turks inisland still have silver.

[Howard] Yeah, but theyre not using it. They have it but its not You know what, Los Vegas, Nevada still has silver. When you go out there to gamble you can actually get silver dollars to gamble with right here in America. There is still silver. [Henry] [caller] [Howard] [Henry] Theyre not pure silver. Theyre Eisenhowers. No, they arent, either. No, they have silver dollars if you ask for them. Yeah, but theyre not silver, theyre the clad stuff.

[Howard] No, they have silver dollars if youre listening to what I said if you ask for them. As a matter of fact, there was a big hullabaloo about 2004 or so, the State of Nevada wanted everything to go back to silver. They tried to force the United States government to go back to silver because they had silver. They had real silver dollars not these clad things. They had the clad ones too. Just like in Switzerland they have the clad money and paper money and they have the real money. And theres some real money around in the world circulating. [Henry] [Howard] steal it. [Henry] I got a whole drawer full of real money. Yeah, I wouldnt talk about it much if I were you. Somebody will try to Theyll wind up dead.

[Howard] Well, that part Ill talk about. I dont mind talking one bit about killing anybody who tries to steal from government officials right on down the line to some street thief. Thieves should be executed immediately. No jury trial, no foolishness, no lawyers just execute them. 02:22:40.407 {02:37:58.199} [Howard] What is phenomenal is what we find by doing some deep research into the intent of the Constitution, the intent of the laws, the purpose for government and what the laws really mean and what even the judges of the higher courts have said about the law that

we dig up. Thats amazing, what were finding, not what weve done, were just people. Were not special, theres nothing important about us at all. Whats important is what weve found that is what is supposed to be, what is right. What we found in tracing back into the ancient scriptures and some of the ancient hieroglyphics and things like that of what the purpose and intent of mankinds existence was that were uncovering and it had nothing whatsoever to do with religions and religious beliefs that were trying to show people that there is a reason why to separate yourself from these religions and separates yourself from these governments and just be yourself. Dont play with these fictions but if you want to set up a fiction thats how you do business in this world but you set it up under a fictitious name like Gemini Investments, like the United States of America, thats a fictitious namelike General Motors Corporation. Can you imagine a woman having a child and naming the thing General Motors? No, thats not a real child, thats a fictitious name. Can you imagine a mother having a child and naming it the United States of Americathats not a real child, thats a fictitious name? No, no such thing would ever happenthey are fictitious names. They are corporations. Thats what corporations are. They are set up under fictitious names to do business in the fictitious world. [Dave] Like the State of California.

[Howard] Yeah, like the State of, the State of is a fiction. There is no such thing as the state other than the fiction that exists and people cooperate with ityou dont have to. Now, if you want toIve said this many timesthere are good positions in government, there are good jobs there, good paying jobs. There are good benefits in government. If this is what you wish to do I would never get in your way. I would never tell you not to. But I would suggest that you learn what its all about, what youre supposed to do when youre in that position. [Dave] Anyway, to stay out of court, send all their garbage back to them. If youre going into court despite what you try just tell them what Howard says, I do not consent to these proceedings, I do not accept your offer. All rights reserved. [Howard] I do not recognize you. Thats the most important thingrecognition.

[Dave] I do not intend and will never intend and have not intended to consent or accept and I demand that the prosecution produce on the record in the evidence file their commercial indemnity bond on the record in the evidence file. That forces it out of administrative and into judicial and they hate that. Theyd rather not let the case go forward rather than reveal, there is no judicial and there is no evidence file for them to put anything into which is why they never do it. They want to keep you into administrative. [Howard] And by the way weve been looking a little bit into this administrative process and a couple of other people around the country have been looking into the administrative process and theres some information available on the internet. Dave, whats the name of that fellow in Alaska that put some stuff out about administrative process? [Dave] Ralph Winterowd.

[Howard] YesRalph. Ralph did a lot of research into this area. A few other people have toogoing off on the tangents of their beliefs so you got to be very careful about what you find about things like this. But Ralph brought up a very interesting point. And we uncovered this point and talked about it too and that isbut we never pushed it as much as Ralph has been pushing it lately and I think it needs to be pushed a lot harder just like hes doingand that is that if you will go check the administrative regulations and statutes that are passed by the legislature of the state or Congress on these administrative agencies they gave them all this who struck John rules, regulations, direction and no authority. There is no enforcement authority in the legislative enactments for these administrative agencies. [Dave] The entire Administrative Procedure Act.

[Howard] Right. They have no administrative enforcement authority to enforce their administrative regulations. Because they have no administrative enforcement authority they cannot enforce their regulations and if you will look it up. Now, this is an individual thing with your individual problem that youre having because there are numerous, numerous, numerous problems that government causes by these administrative agencies. You could have a problem with local agencies with the health department, with the local agencies with the police department, you could have a problem with the retirement programs or with the military guaranteeing certain requirements of benefits and stuff. You have to go look up their administrative rules and regulations and find out what is enforceable and what is not enforceable. And it has to be on an individual basis and the individual problem that youre having. This is not something that we can come up with a blanket statement and a blanket way to go about arguing your problem. [Dave] Ralphs got a conference call if people want it.

[Howard] This depends upon you individually to go to the library. Ask the librarian for a little bit of help. They will help you. Theyre usually very nice people usually. Ive met a few librarians that are ding bats but most of them are very nice people. And they will help you to search something. They will look in their books to find out where it is on the shelf and tell you where to find it. You just have to do a little bit of reading when you get to the right book and you will find out that the state police department is authorized to investigate robbery, rape, murder and assault and battery and that is the only authority that the state police department in any state in this country has. They have no authority to write traffic tickets. There is no administrative enforcement authority for traffic tickets. Youll find the same thing with the city cops and the town cops and the [Dave] Ralph has a conference call if anybodys interested in hearing about the Administrative Procedure Act non-enforceability. Anybody interested? [caller] Yes.

[Dave] Its on Sunday night from six oclock to eight oclock, thats Delaware time, six oclock in the evening till eight oclock in the evening Sunday night.

[Howard]

Eastern time.

[Dave] Ralph Winterowd and the number is for the radio station is 1-800-313-9443 or you can dial a conference call number if you dont want to listen to the telephone. You can dial a conference call number, 1-712-432-0075. I think this is the right pin number, 118466. [Howard] [Dave] And the pound sign. If the prompt tells you to do thatyeah.

[Howard] That is good information because Ralph is a researcher. He actually digs into the law. He does not sit around and use his religious beliefs to determine what he thinks things ought to be like so many of these other speakers and leaders do. [caller] Are you saying that the state policesupposed to be investigating robbery, rape, murder and assault? [Dave] Under the Administrative Procedure Actyes.

[Howard] Under the legislative enactment of their authority thats all that they have authority over. [caller] Where can you find this information, in administrative?

[Howard] In the state codes, in the legislative enactments of the statutes of the state is where you can find this. [Dave] Its called their job description.

[Howard] These different little agencies like environmental protective authorities and child protective authorities and all these different little dingbat ABC agencies, if you go look them up in the states legislative enactments creating those agencies it tells you what their authority is and what their enforcement ability is and in most cases they do not have enforcement authority. The IRS Code, Title 26 of the United States Code has no enforcement authority for the IRS to enforce tax collectionnone whatsoever. [caller] But these guys are trained to shoot and kill and maim when they come to you and get youthe IRS. [Howard] [caller] Yeah. And its a private company.

[Howard] it. [caller] [Howard]

The judges and the lawyers are trained to coerce you into cooperating with The IRS was just issued state-of-the-art new shotguns. So are most of the police.

[caller] Yeah, but these are fairly sophisticated up-to-date, the most nicest piece you could own. In fact, a lot of the other agencies or officers dont have it yet. [Dave] Of course, youve got the finest Congress that money can buy so naturally who do you think owns Congress and passes all this stuff? The money power. [Howard] And you got the finest judges that money can buy. Now, if they dont have enforcement authority do you realize that that falls back under their constitutional limitations? [caller] Well, Ill beon the 10th Amendmentpolice powersok.

[Howard] Yep. They dont have authority because the legislature didnt have the power under the Constitution to give them authority to do these things. [Dave] And private corporations, which they are, have absolutely no authority over private people. [caller] I got a question to ask you. A friend of mine, hes been living in George for twenty-two yearshe left Michiganand when he came here he was driving with his Georgia license and they said that his Michigan license was suspended and they took his Georgia license away from him. It took a while to find they couldnt do that. [Dave] [caller] Is he charging money? They charged money They tried to charge him money but

[Dave] No, Im talking about him. Does he charge money to people to take them places or does he charge money to haul other peoples property from place to place? [caller] No, he doesnt.

[Dave] Then hes not driving. Driving means charging people to motor or move or transport people for hire or third-party goods for hire. If hes not charging money hes not for hire and hes not driving and his private property automobile is not a vehicle because if hes not using it for the production of income its not a vehicle. If its not a vehicle charging money its not a vehicle motoring passengers for hire or third-party goods for hire, its not a vehicle motoring, its not a motor vehicle, its not subject to their code. You need to learn the definition of these words.

[Howard] Theres quite a number of court cases that you can look up that explain exactly what Dave just said. They tie it down to commerce only that this authority of having a license is all about and if youre not in commerce which means, as Dave just explained, charging money to transport goods for somebody else or to transport passengers, thats what commerce is all about, if youre not in that and youre in your private automobile then these idiots are breaching their oath to uphold the Constitution and they become liable to you for that breach of the contract. This is what that document we started out, tonight, talking about is all about. Give them the document, put their name at the top. Well, theres two places to fill in a blank on there because we left the state open so that anybody can fill in the state that they live near. If youre in Wyoming just fill in Wyoming. If youre in Delaware you fill in Delaware. And at the top of the page you fill in the name of this idiot thats bothering you and you hand him this document. The rest of the document is all prepared for you. Theres no other fill in the blanks to be done. The US Constitution is spelled out as the US Constitution. The only one that is not filled out is the state because it might be different. There are fifty different states so it might be a different name of a state that you put in there and the idiots name and you let him know that hes being held to the oath that hes supposed to have taken. Thats why I explained earlier that this concept was based on the presumption that they did what theyre supposed to do. Dont question whether they did it or not. We dont care whether they did it. We will presume that they did what they were supposed to do and hold them liable for it. [Dave] Theyre stealing your natural right of free passage by presumption.

[Howard] Whenever they do something to you in your private capacity or your private property they have breached their constitutional oath and theyre liable for breach of the contract because their constitutional oath is a contract. [caller] when they did stop him and they took his Georgia license his license expired on that same date so they took his license. [Dave] Who cares if its expired? If hes not charging money he didnt need it to have whether its expired or not. In the home study case theres a case called Turner v. Michigan, in that case the judge, Hilda Gage, came out and said, if its suspended or expired then hes not a licensee. The definition of a licensee is someone who holds a current valid license. If its expired its not valid so hes not subject, so what does he care? [caller] But theyre saying now that the license expired then automatically your license is suspendedthats a law they got now. [Dave] Well, get it in writing. Thats your proof that youre not a licensee. According to Turner v. Michigan you dont need a license if youre not charging money anyway so who cares? You got your piece of paper there that says its suspended they cannot hold you to the Code requirements for licensees who are not suspended because you are suspended therefore youre not subject to their motor vehicle requirements, Turner v. Michigan. Thats one of the references in the home study course, how to enjoy your natural

right of free passage instead of a privilege of driving in commerce by license with the corporate state. [Howard] All this kind of information that were talking about is available through www.peoples-rights.com . Now, if your brother or whoever this is isnt willing to study then he ought to go get a license and pay the fees and pay the tickets and cooperate with the system. If hes willing to study and hes ready to go to court and argue these things because hes studied then he can argue about the license. If hes not ready he shouldnt do it. [caller] Absolutely, I agree with you; thats what I told him.

[Howard] And that goes for everybody, if youre not willing to look into this stuff, study it, go beyond what weve done and part of what we got came from people who went beyond what we had at that time and thats why we got so much information in there. Other people have helped us to learn and find this. Dave didnt do this by himself. I didnt do this by myself. We got help from other people and some of it turned out to be bad help and some of it were recanting. [Dave] Tell them about the tomato down in Kentucky that deliberately ran the red light to see what would happen. [Howard] No, that was in Virginia, not Kentucky. Yeah, he deliberately ran the red light to see what would happen and once he told the cop what he knew to tell him the cop just got in his car and said, have a good day, and drove off. And thats in Virginia. Virginia is among the top communist states in this country. [caller] You got that right. Ive been through that state.

[Howard] Georgia is among the top communist states in this country. New York and California is among the top communist states. All the rest of them are communist too but some of them are more forceful of enforcing their communism than other ones are. [Dave] Because all these state corporations are being instructed by communist members who hold a BAR communist ID number. [caller] I agree with you on that. . . . [03:00:40} [Howard] The more we get knowledge and information like this out to the people the more the people are waking up. Now, you got to realize as I have over the years of doing this work that when they first hear it its not going to be acceptable. Theyll just say, that cant be, just like when I tell you that religions are behind getting us involved with governments by requiring us to record birth certificates in order to be a party to their religion and get their religious functions, whatever the hell they call them, like baptism and

bar mitzvah and things like that. Religion got us involved in these damned contracts with the government of registering birth certificates. Religion has promoted the idea of signing up for social security when, in fact, if you go look at the social security law it only applies to government officialsit does not apply to people privately. We were not supposed to have social security numbers and cooperate with this system. [Dave] Furthermore the Bible says to not have a common purse in common with others and yet thats exactly what social security is. [Howard] [Dave] Yes, indeed it is. So much for your church.

[Howard] Yeah, so much for churches. They have led us into this stuff. Its hard for people to accept that but you think hard about it, you put a little effort into the thought and pay attention to what youre learning youll realize that your churches have led you into a lot of this stuff. They are part of the system. Theyre not part of God. Theyre pretending to be part of God and actually executing what the system wants. [Dave] Theyre a corporation. Theyre a 501(c)(3) corporation.

[Howard] Yeah, well, theres a whole bunch of them that have pulled away and they arent 501(c)(3) corporations anymore but theyre doing the same thing that those 501(c)(3) corporations are doing, so theyre no better. [Dave] So theyre corporations with different numbers.

[Joe] Howard, before you go, can I just read something? You were talking about the education system earlier. I looked at a little book on the US Constitution and Fascinating Facts about it, twenty most popular Supreme Court cases. In 1973 there was a court case, San Antonio Independent School District v. Rodriquez. The Constitution does not guarantee a fundamental right to education and its the gist of the case. In 1968 a group of low income parents sued San Antonia claiming its citys wealthy precincts had better schools. The court upheld the districting plan saying that the Constitution did not guarantee an education and upholding its tenet. The Constitution does not compel government to provide services like education or welfare to the people, rather it places boundaries on the government actions. Thats it. [Howard] Ok, and that goes right along with something I brought up a week or two ago that all this control of education, control of medicine and health and all this kind of stuff was all proposed under the 1866 Civil Rights Act which was vetoed by the then President (Andrew) Johnson who followed President Lincoln. [Joe] Ok, but on that case that I just read, now, think about this, theyre saying they dont compel them to give you an education but yet the parents dont put their children in the public fool system they come after them.

[Howard] [Joe]

Yep. Now, isnt that kind of like an oxymoronwhats rightwhats wrong?

[Howard] It certainly is and it makes me, again, bring up the story that Ive told many times of taking my daughter out of school in the sixth grade because we went to a parent teacher meeting and sat in the school and watched what they were teaching and when we left there I said to my wife, theyre screwing up the minds of these kids so bad theyll never understand English or mathematics or anything else. Were not sending our daughter back to this school. She said, what are we going to do? And I said, were going to get in touch with one of these home school things and sign her up and home school her. So, my wife agreed and we did that and about a year and a half later there was a knock at the door. Some little moron from the school system wanted to know where my daughter was. I said, shes right there sitting on the sofa. Well, why isnt she in school? I said, she is in school. What do you mean? I said, were home schooling her so she is in school. And their comment was, are you qualified teachers, you or your wife, are you a qualified teacher? And I said, absolutely not. I looked up the word, qualified and it means limited and neither my wife nor I are limited idiots and we dont want some limited idiot called a qualified teacher teaching our child. They went away and never bothered me again. [Joe] Now public schools here in Pennsylvania theyre letting parents home school their children with their books and things like that and its called K-12 something or whatever. [Dave] That means kindergarten through 12. Those Pennsylvania regulations only apply to subjects called citizens and residents and voters of the fiction state of Pennsylvania. So, if your name is in all capital letters and you have a government property ID number called a social security number and you live in a fictitious place called capital P, capital A with zip zone numbers and you open the mail when its sent to those zip zone numbers, yes, those codes will apply to you because you dont know any better. If you know youre not living in a fiction called State of Pennsylvania or capital P, capital A and youre not living in a fictitious federal zone called 12345 or some other bunch of numbers none of their crap applies to you. That crap only applies to their fiction creations, not live natural private people. You got to decide, are you a natural live real people or a corporate fiction person subject dummy. [Joe] [Howard] [Dave] But most people dont know that. You are right. Thats why we try to teach people better.

[Howard] Thats why were here to try to teach people. Now, theres a way around this stuff. I dont care if the doctor said you got to take a certain medicine. I dont care if the State said you got to use a certain book to teach your children. You can cooperate and

not cooperate. You take the doctors prescription and dont get it filled or if they force you, you go get it filled and take it home and throw it in the trash. You dont have to take it. You dont have to use their books if they insist you get their books. So get their books and take them home and throw them in the trash and find good books to teach the children with. Make it look like youre cooperating so you dont get in a lot of trouble but dont necessarily cooperate. Their books are, as I heard somebody on one of the radio talk shows say today that their books are all oriented toward what we call liberalism. Theyre written by liberals. The entire education system is liberal. There is very little real education. They were talking about this on the talk shows today. As a matter of fact, my wife is sitting here and she says, theyre finally saying the same thing that you said twenty-five years ago. And I said, yep, it took them that long to catch up with what I saw twenty-five years ago. People are waking up. Theyre beginning to realize that these things are wrong, that its too liberal, that its communistic in nature, but you dont have to cooperate. Sometimes, though, its best that you make it look like you cooperate. Get the book, go along with them. Throw the book in the trash and teach your children what you know to be right. Go get books of your own and teach your children from the books. Get books like The Constitution of the United Statesits Sources and Application by Thomas James Norton that I talked about tonight and use that book. Theres an interesting little blurp in there on the 14th Amendment and one of the clauses in the 14th Amendment and that clause is that no state shall deprive any person of life, liberty or property. And the little blurp written by Thomas Norton explaining that says that a national government was feared as not to be trusted but the state governments were accepted as normal until it was found out that the state governments could be as corrupt as a federal government could be. And that clause in that 14th Amendment was to the state governments under the control of the federal government to make sure that they did not become corrupt, that they did not deprive people of their natural rights of life, liberty and property. Well, the federal government deprives people of their rights of life, liberty and property and passes the authority down to the state governments to deprive people of life, liberty and property and they violate that very statement in the amendment constantly. We dont have to let them do it [Dave] So that the lawyers can make money.

[Howard] Right. Thats what its for. Its all for profit, not just the lawyers but all the politicians and anybody else that gets involved in government for them to profit from it. But we dont have to cooperate with this. We have the right of nullification we can just avoid them completely. Avoiding them is not an easy life. I avoid them so thoroughly that I will not cooperate with any kind of a problem that I may have with their programs. I wont get insurance of any kind. I refuse to deal with insurance companies because theyre government connected. I refuse to deal with banks, theyre government connected. I refuse to deal with medication and doctors and hospitals. I told my wife, if ever I fall down just leave me there. Dont bother me at least for half an hour. If I get up on my own and I recover from whatever happened, fine. If I dont in about a half an hour come over and kick me and feel my pulse and see if Im cold. If I am, then you call the ambulance. Dont let those

bastards get a hold of my body while its still warm. I dont want them touching me. Just let me die naturally. I dont want their damned drugs. I dont want any of their medicine as they call it. Leave me alone, let me be natural, let me die naturally. You dont have to cooperate just because theyre there, just because some idiot said we have to cooperateyou dont have to. You can make it look like you do. My wife will cooperate after Im dead shell call the ambulance. Some day Im going to die. The physical body has to die. You cant take this physical body with you when you leave here. The only thing that leaves you is what we call the spirit or the soul. There are many different names for it. Its nothing but the energy thats within your body. That is the likeness that we were created in by our Creator. The likeness of God is energy. God is nothing but pure energy. Thats why you cant address God, thats why any connection has to be through angels or spirits or Jesus or any other name you want to put on it {You may want to see a book by Joe Kovacs called Shocked By The BibleThe Most Astonishing Facts Youve Never Been Told. ISBN 978-0-8499-2011-0} because the force of God is just too tremendous. You cant get there, its just too overpowering. You dont directly connect with God. You connect through these other spirits that are lower level than God and you are just a lower level spirit of God because God created us all read the Bible, the Bible tells you God created us in his own likeness. Well, thats a very interesting statement. My wife doesnt look a thing like me. Did he create her in His likeness or did he create me in His likeness? There are different colors of skin. Did He created one of them in His likeness and not the rest of them? No, because it wasnt a physical likenessit was energy, forces of energy. That is the likeness that we all have. We are all the same. Thats why we should respect each other. Thats why we shouldnt have prejudices against any of the others because were all equal in energy. What we look like on the surface, what we appear to be in the physical realm has nothing to do with the likeness to our Creator. The likeness is energy which is the spirit, the soul, or whatever else you want to call it. There are many, many different names depending upon which religion wrote it. But that energy is the only thing that leaves here. You cannot take the physical with you. {In the sweat of thy face shall thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shall thou return. (3:19)} The physical deterioratesit cannot be maintained so, you got to leave it behind. So, Im not dead, the physical bodys just laying there dormant so you got to leave it behind because the spirit left. The spirits not dead. {For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing. (Ecclesiastes 9:5) There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. (Ecclesiastes 9:10)

The dead praise not the LORD , neither any that go down into silence. (Psalm 115:17) His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. (Psalm 146:4) The Bible continually refers to death as a profound sleep. In Psalm 13:3, King David spoke of "the sleep of death."} {According to Kovacs you are dormant until the return of Christ at which time youll be resurrected, if worthy, and will enter the New Jerusalem which will exist on this refurbished earth.} {Recall how Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave, saying his friend was asleep: "Our friend
Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep" (John 11:11). The prophet Daniel spoke about resurrections from the sleep of death, noting that "many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2). Notice this holy city, the "new Jerusalem," is "coming down from God out of heaven." In the future, God will no longer be invisible. He is finally going to dwell with His people in a city called "new Jerusalem." At some point in the future, heaven on Earth will be a reality. The last two chapters of Revelation describe some of the wonderful conditions in this heaven on Earth.

Jesus Christ made a shocking statement about heavenHe indicated that no human has ever been there.
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (John 3:13) No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaventhe Son of Man. (John 3:13 Niv) Jesus said only He Himself had been to heaven, because He came from there.}

[Dave] done?

Before you leave have you gotten that Notice of Rescission of Agency

[Howard] Yeah, Ive gotten that done but I do not have the history so that one can explain it to a judge completely donethats taking me time. No sense in putting that relinquishment of the agency out until we have something to go along with it as points and authorities as to why were relinquishing the agency. Then you can show that to a judge and say, there, read it, and you can explain it. And if you dont read it and you cant explain it shame on you, itll be your own fault that it didnt work.

[caller] [Howard] [caller]

Is the rescission of agency found in the states statutory codes? No, its found in the law of principal and agent. That would be in the law libraryright?

[Howard] Yes. And there are books on the law of principal and agent that are written by several different lawyers and law professors in the library on the shelf. [caller] Its all there, isnt it, Howard.

[Howard] We just had to find it. We had to recognize what things meant. The word, resident means agent of the government and they always refer to us as residents, dont they? [caller] Yeah, well that would make sense, wouldnt it, because the address designates a corporate, a ceded corporate locationright? [Howard] [caller] [Howard] Yes. So naturally a resident would be the agent of that ceded corporate property. Right.

[Dave] According to the law dictionary an address your place of business or residence. So the minute you admit you have an address youve just admitted youre a corporate fiction person, all capital-letter named dummy that has a resident address. Live natural people do not have addresses. They have non-domestic post locations with the state spelled fully out in all lower case with no numbers. [Howard] [Dave] And that is not actually an address. Its a post location.

[Howard] People do have an address. When I call you up if I dont address you as Dave and address myself as Howard calling you, you dont even know who I am. So dont have an address and many years ago back in the early nineties I did a big seminar up in Cleveland, Ohio on this subject. My address is Howard Griswold, they called it, and they distributed that tape all over the country and it just bounced off of the heads of the brain dead American people but my address is Howard Griswold. If you address me as 1818 Dirty Feet Street Im not going to respond to you and especially if you put it in all-capitalletter state name and city or town or something like that and some fictitious number designationthats not me, thats not my address. Im addressed as Howard Griswold. Address me any other way and youre not going get a response. So when you fill out a form that says whats your name, you put your name. When you come to the part of the form where it says wheres you address you put your name, thats your address. This

screws government up terribly because they need you to cooperate with that address. They need to put you in that position of being a resident and until you understand how to avoid these kinds of things its going to do you no good whatsoever to relinquish the agency because youll replace yourself right back in the agency by following the program that they want you to follow. [Dave] Just like these people that went to all that trouble to get land patents and then went and recorded the damned thing and gave the allodium back to the state. How can that be? [caller] [Howard] [caller] Is that what they did? Certainly, thats what they did. You know why they did that?

[Dave] Because they didnt listen to Howard. Those who do not listen to Howard get to pay the price for their ignorance. [caller] One of their best friends whose best friend is a lawyer told them what to do with the land patent, you got to record that, just like I had people here locally tell me, well, how else can I prove its my property if I dont record my private land deed? [Howard] And if you know what, theres a Delaware Supreme Court case that says, recording of the deed does not prove ownership. It only establishes the right of the government to lien the property once its recorded. [Dave] That means charging taxes.

[Howard] It does not prove ownership. The original contract of transfer is what proves the ownership and the registration of that contract called a deed does not prove the ownership through registration. [caller] Whats the name of that case, Howard?

[Howard] It was either Hutchins v. Ellingsworth or Ellingsworth v. Hutchens. Its a Delaware Supreme Court case. [caller] [Dave] [caller] [Dave] You got the cite on that, Dave? No, not off hand. I could look it up I guess. Well, its in your home study programright? Sure.

[Howard] [caller] the

Yeah, it is in the home study program. Well, that solves it. What good will donation do you want? You cited earlier

[Dave] You go to www.peoples-rights.com. Go to the mail order page, print out the mail order page and check off or circle which ever information packages or home study courses it is that youre interested in and send that in with the appropriate donation to cover the costs, the photocopy costs and postage, and we will send you the home study course or information package that you have checked off and asked for. 03:23:30~ . . . { 03:45:29.803} [Dave] We try to teach people to stay out of court in the first place and to dispose of all these harassments at the post office clerk window. If youre unable to do that then and they drag you into their court system, you have to say just like Howard says, you have failed to give me enough information or knowledge upon which to form a responsive reply or enter a plea. How can you enter a plea when theyve not given you enough information or knowledge upon which to form a responsive answer or reply? [caller] Well, what Ive heard quite often in the court situation is that the judge enters a plea for you. [Dave] Well, then hes to step down from being a judge. He cannot be both the judge and your attorney. He cant enter a plea and be your attorney and stay and be a judge. He has to recuse himself in order to enter the plea but you have to know to catch the bastard at that trickery. [Howard] And you tell the judge that youre withdrawing that plea because you didnt give him permission to do it. [Dave] [caller] [Howard] [Dave] [Howard] [Dave] Exactly. Didnt give any consentright? Right. We never give him a written delegation of authority. No consent. As his evidence of non-consent.

[Howard] And were starting to get some interesting results in the courts particularly on debt collection cases because there have been so many of them lately. The judges are

actually starting to look up the laws and look up the Constitution and look up the rules and beginning to follow them more accurately. [Dave] Well, theres a doctrine in law called like kind. That means if they paid you in a certain specie you can pay them back in a certain specie, same specielike kind specie. So if they loaned you private irredeemable non-interesting private IOU notes you can repay them in like kind with the same worthless irredeemable non-interesting bearing private IOU notes. [Howard] [Dave] [Howard] That you create. That you create instead of what Ben Bernacke or Instead of what they create.

[Dave] Whoever the Federal Reserve guy this month isVolcker, Paul Volcker, whoever the previous one was. [caller] Well, theyre all scum bags.

[Dave] Theyre all BAR communist BARd ID number carrying lawyer/judge extortion monopoly fascist dictators. [caller] Yeah. And they all belong at the bottom of the ocean with the whale dung. Is that like kind doctrine part of the home study program, Dave? [Dave] [caller] Im sure its in that list of legal maxims or doctrines somewhere. Oh, ok.