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1-9 காடடபபடகிறத

20 நவமபர
Ramakrishnan
rUpa & lOka
Let us compare these two sanskrit words with their corresponding borrowings in Tamil.

rUpam = uruvam
lOka = ulakam

I have heard someone mention earlier that lOka in sanskrit would have been u+la+ka and that
the initial vowel somehow got after the medial syllable to become la+u+ka and subsequently
lOka.

Now I found that this must have happened for rUpam as well... i.e. u+ru+pa becomes
ru+u+pa = rUpa

Tamil (and possibly kannada/other dravidian languages) preserve older stages of words that
could be very helpful in reconstructing Vedic.

Anyone knows further such words?

20 நவமபர
Dibya (িিবয)
I can't say about "rUpa", but what I do remember is about "lOka". It is speculated that in early
Vedic the word "might" have actually been "ulOka", because it almost always appears in the
Rgveda in the sequence "u lOka". According to this hypothesis, the reading "u lOka" is a later
reanalysis of earlier "ulOka".

Note: The idea is that it was "ulOka", not "ulaka", for which to become "lOka" would be
extremely unlikely given what we know about the development of Sanskrit phonology.

20 நவமபர
Dibya (িিবয)
But that apart, the general assertion that borrowings (and their retention) in "foreign"
languages may help in reconstruction of older phases of a language is totally valid, and well
acknowledged. Pet examples of "standard" text-books would include the Germanic loanwords
in Finnish, for example.

20 நவமபர
Ramakrishnan
Oh it was ulOka, thanks. Maybe then the ulOka --> ulaka would have been a process of
internalization in Tamil.

What about rUpa & uruvam/urupam?


20 நவமபர
Dibya (িিবয)
Well, within the constraints of Old Tamil phonology, the "rUpa" had to add a starting vowel.
The choice of the vowel quality was probably influenced by the vowel followed.

But, why the "U" of Sanskrit rUpa would become short, I don't quite understand that. Did Old
Tamil have any rule of prosody by which two consecutive short syllables would be (under some
circumstances) metrically equivalent to one long syllable? I am asking this, because I know it
is typologically possible - Old English (and probably other Germanic languages) had this rule,
and that could explain the shortening.

21 நவமபர
நீகக
இரவி/రవ
"Let us compare these two sanskrit words with their corresponding borrowings in Tamil."
it is wrong that the so called words were borrowed by Tamil. The Sanskrit language could not
explain logically the root for roopa and loka. The word uruvam is comparable with latin word
form.
In tamil, the words uru, uruvam, uruvu were derived from the root "ul"(which means creation,
the things having body, figure, formulate)
ul->uru,uruvu, uruvam
ul->uruvu->urubu
urubu-> roobam->roopa (skt)
The word uruvu is also found in Telugu language.
ெபயரசெொால உரவம- கணணால கணடணரக கடயத.
ெொாழிெபயரபபகள-ஆஙகிலம -body, shape figure, image, picture. (wiki Tamil)
http://www.tamildict.com/tamilsearch.php (-meaning of uru)
Tamil English
பயஙகர உரவமைடய உயிர, அரககர, அரககன monster
உரணைட; உலகம globe
ொாறறஙகைை உரவாகக induce change
ஆண உரவம male figure
உடல வாக, உரவம; எண figure
அைொைக; உரவம image
உரககைலநத unrecognizable
உரொாட format
உரபபட Item
உரள நிரததி Scroll lock
உர Figure
உரவாகக create
http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/downloads/SanskritDictionary.html
in Sanskrit, following are the derivation.
ruupa = beautiful form
ruupaM = beaut
ruupamaishvaraM = universal form
ruupasa.npannau = (two)persons endowed with beautiful appearance
ruupasya = form
ruupaaNi = forms
ruupeNa = form
ruupita* = mfn. formed, represented, exhibited, imagined Kâv. Sarvad
from the words ruupa and ruupam are to be derived from ruupita. However in Tamil, the
words uruvam, uruvu, urubu are derived from uru (to formulate). In Tamil, the root "uru" is in
usage. "Karu uruvanadhu; urukkondaan; uruvetrinaan; and the like, unlike sanksirt so called
root ruup.

22 நவமபர
நீகக
இரவி/రవ
for the word Loka, the Sanskrit Pundits give 2 explanation for the origin. 1 is Lochana (to look)
and another one is open space

loka = this world * = m. (connected with {roka}; in the oldest texts {loka} is generally
preceded by {u}, which accord. to the Padap. = the particle 3. {u}; but {u} may be a
prefixed vowel and {uloka4}, a collateral dialectic form of {loka}; accord. to others {u-loka}
is abridged from {uru-} or {ava-loka}), free or open space, room, place, scope, free motion
RV. AV. Br. ÂS'vS'r. (acc. with {kR} or {dA} or {anu-} {nI}, to make room grant freedom "';
{loke} with gen. `" instead of "'); intermediate space Kaus'.; a tract, region, district, country,
province S'Br.; the wide space or world (either `" the universe "' or, any division of it "', esp.
`" the sky or heaven "';

uloka explanation for the word loka is surely in accordance with Tamil phonology. The word
loka is derived from Tamil via Telugu.
Tamil-Telugu)
ugir (nail)--> goru
ural->rolu

likewise
Tamil->Telugu->Sanskrit
ulagam-l>okamu->Loka

further
ulagam (Tamil)-> ulogam-> u-loka/loka.

from the word ul, sanksrit word uru (which is also tamil word) having the meaning of earth
was derived

ul-uru (world)
ul-il-iLai (world)(Tamil and Telugu)
uru-uruvi(world in Tamil)->urvi(world in Sanskrit)

22 நவமபர
நீகக
இரவி/రవ
http://webapps.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/tamil/recherche
Cologne Digital Sanskrit Lexicon: Search Results
1 uru mf(%{vI4})n. (1. %{vR} ; %{UrNu} Un2. i , 32) , wide , broad , spacious , extended ,
great , large , much , excessive , excellent RV. AV. MBh. Ragh. ; (%{us}) m. N. of an
A1n3girasa A1rshBr. ; of a son of the fourteenth Manu BhP. VP. ; (%{vI}) f. the earth ; see
%{urvI4} , p. 218 , col. 1 ; (%{u}) n. wide space , space , room RV. (with %{kR} , to grant
space or scope , give opportunity RV.) ; (%{u}) ind. widely , far , far off RV. ; (%{uruyA4}
MaitrS. ; 1. %{urvyA4} and %{urviyA4} instr. of the fem.) ind. far , far off , to a distance RV.
VS. TS. ; compar. %{varIyas} , superl. %{variSTha} ; [cf. Gk. $ , $ , &c.: Hib. {ur} , `" very
"' ; &68196[217 ,3] %{uras} , `" power , ability.

22 நவமபர
TULU
In Tulu
The original words for the following mentioned words are;
rUpam = oru ,
lOka = joga.

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