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Ultra-efficient LED puts out more power than is pumped in (Wired UK)

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Ultra-efficient LED puts out more power than is pumped in


By Duncan Geere (/search/author/Duncan+Geere) 09 March 12 (Fri, 09 Mar 2012 11:48:00 +00:00)

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Comments

MIT physicists have managed (http://physics.aps.org/synopsisfor/10.1103/PhysRevLett.108.097403) to build a light-emitting diode that has an electrical efficiency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy) of more than

88
(#CommentList)

100 percent. You may ask, "Wouldn't that mean it breaks the first law of thermodynamics?" The answer, happily, is no. The LED produces 69 picowatts of light (http://www.wired.co.uk/magazine/archive/2012/02/features/the-lightbulbmoment) using 30 picowatts of power, giving it an efficiency of 230 percent. That means it operates above "unity efficiency" -- putting it into a category normally occupied by perpetual motion machines. However, while MIT's diode puts out more than twice as much energy in photons as it's fed in electrons, it doesn't violate the conservation of energy because it appears to draw in heat energy from its surroundings instead. When it gets more than 100 percent electrically-efficient, it begins to cool down, stealing energy from its environment to convert into more photons. In slightly more detail, the researchers chose an LED with a small band gap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Band_gap), and applied smaller and smaller voltages. Every time the voltage was halved, the electrical power was reduced by a factor of four, but the light power emitted only dropped by a factor of two. The extra energy came instead from lattice vibrations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonon). Don't miss: Let there be LED: The future of the light bulb (http://www.wired.co.uk/magazine/archive/2011/10/features/letthere-be-led) Minecraft for Xbox 360 release date announced, amongst others (/news/archive/201203/22/minecraft-xbox-360-dated) Skylanders Giants brings new gameplay and merchandise (/news/archive/201202/16/skylanders-giants-extends-toy-range) Tupac 'hologram' merely pretty cool optical illusion (/news/archive/2012-04/17/tupac-hologram-merely -cool-optical-illusion) 12 incredible photographs taken from Earth's orbit (/news/archive/2012-04/14/the-best-views-fromearth-orbit) Prototype hoverbike could soar to 3km altitude at 173mph (/news/archive/2011-06/10/hoverbikechris-alloy) Preview: SimCity will come with arson, curvy roads and extra chimneys (/news/archive/201204/19/simcity-preview) (/news/archive/2012-03/30/best-drawing) To an untrained eye these pictures would look nothing more than standard photographs. But they are in fact hand drawn (/news/archive/201203/30/best-drawing)

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-03/09/230-percent-efficient-leds

04/24/2012

Ultra-efficient LED puts out more power than is pumped in (Wired UK)

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jph

Mar 9th 2012

Why is it a 'happy' thing that we didn't learn something new & impactful like the 1st law is false? A discovery like that could lead to some hardcore new science. raidet Mar 9th 2012

In reply to raidet

I went for "happy" because it'd probably generate quite a lot of stress and hand-wringing if the first law of thermodynamics turned out to be false. The ultimate goal of science is truth - so in reality, it's neither a happy or sad thing at all. It's just a thing. Duncan Mar 9th 2012

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In reply to Duncan

Magazine (/magazine)

Regarding the first law, even if one could extract energy from the quantum vacuum, which most but not all scientists remain skeptical, it has been shown that such a process would not violate the laws of thermodynamics. Also, there are now scientific challenges to the absolute status of the second law of thermodynamics, for example the work of physicist D.P. Sheehan at USD and others. That would cause hand-wringing enough if confirmed but it would not make the second law "wrong" as much as just make it not universal. Bob Mar 9th 2012

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about an hour ago (http://twitter.com/WiredUK/statuses/194808583840481280)

In reply to Duncan

> " The ultimate goal of science is truth"i think that's straying into religion.The ultimate goal of science is to produced useful models. mijj Mar 10th 2012

Bowerbirds are the accidental gardeners of the animal kingdom: http://t.co/Yaj5s86r (http://t.co/Yaj5s86r) by @katiescott1980 (http://twitter.com/katiescott1980)
about an hour ago (http://twitter.com/WiredUK/statuses/194799491990294530)

In reply to Duncan

I wouldn't even go that far, science doesn't really care if a model is useful, only that it's repeatable. Once a principle is identified, any utility may (or may not) come later. Glen Mar 10th 2012

Cispa: US 'intelligence sharing' bill explained http://t.co/GStt8O8H (http://t.co/GStt8O8H) by @olivia_solon (http://twitter.com/olivia_solon)


about 2 hours ago (http://twitter.com/WiredUK/statuses/194795630533677060)

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-03/09/230-percent-efficient-leds

04/24/2012

Ultra-efficient LED puts out more power than is pumped in (Wired UK)

Page 3 of 8

In reply to Duncan

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mijj:I disagree with you. I think the point of science is trying to understand the world around us, not just to create new technologies or models for the sake of having them. Trying to understand the cosmos is what has driven some of the greatest minds like Einstein. The difference is, science approaches it with a humility and acknowledgement that we don''t have everything correct. Religion may have been born out of seeking truth, but mainstream religion has very little interest in truth. bam Mar 10th 2012

In reply to Duncan

mijj -- the ultimate goal of science is not to make useful models. It is to explain the universe in a predictable and observable fashion. Religion explains the universe in a fashion that is neither predictable or observable. Science is falsifiable. Religion is not. mike Mar 10th 2012

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In reply to Duncan

mijj -- the ultimate goal of science is not to make useful models. It is to explain the universe in a predictable and observable fashion. Religion explains the universe in a fashion that is neither predictable or observable. Science is falsifiable. Religion is not. mike Mar 10th 2012

In reply to Duncan

mijj -- the ultimate goal of science is not to make useful models. It is to explain the universe in a predictable and observable fashion. Religion explains the universe in a fashion that is neither predictable or observable. Science is falsifiable. Religion is not. mike Mar 10th 2012

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In reply to Duncan

I thought the ultimate goal of science is for scientists to score chicks.

nobody

Mar 23rd 2012

In reply to Duncan

mike- your comment was repeated three times, in a predictable and observable fashion, is it now a law? But seriously, I wonder if this may have an application as both screen and cooling technique for laptops's, and does it have any chance of returning more electrical energy than it consumes by absorbing ambient heat, (solar, geothermal)? eworthi Mar 23rd 2012

In reply to Duncan

Please google "obsolescence" - even better: Watch this on youtube: "The Light bulb Conspiracy" (arte) /watch?v=AAwKyyi5UjkMust see - Very interesting.Science is great - somehow overrated, but often abused or guided for the interests of a few.I don't like LEDs, even when they're doing efficiently things like that - They are cold & not pleasing for my eyes (by using it to light the livingrooms or also in the urban surroundings). The shining is very aggressiv and reminds me of annoying laserpointers... I had to mask my LED-Lights on several hardware in my apartment, because it really bothered me...Religion is misunderstood... Science is mind/intellect, "Belief" is soul/consciousness. The balance is important, otherwise we end up as a robot...> in a logical consequence. You can see already evidence nowadays.We've got to bring balance back... I think it does not come to the ultimate answers, if one of them is too overrated. mrphs115 Mar 23rd 2012

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HTC One S review (/reviews/mobilephones/2012-04/htc-one-sreview)


23 April 2012

In reply to Duncan

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-03/09/230-percent-efficient-leds

04/24/2012

Ultra-efficient LED puts out more power than is pumped in (Wired UK)

Page 4 of 8

mike, I disagree with your assessment. Religion makes claims, thus it is testable. If a person says the world will end on a particular day, and it doesn't, then it is clearly proven false. Conversely, if a religion says that people are happier when they do kind things for each other, that can be shown to be correct. The challenge is how to appropriately test the claims. Greg Apr 7th 2012

In reply to raidet

Science does not declare a model a law lightly. How many scientific laws can you name? It wouldn't mean we had "learned something new". It would mean much of what we think we know is operating exactly as predicted by a law that is actually not a law. If any of the few scientific laws are violated, it's not cause for joy that we learned something new, it's cause to be sad because the universe is fucking with us. Nobody Mar 9th 2012

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In reply to Nobody

I disagree! To a certain extent, I agree with Duncan's statement above - "...in reality, it's neither a happy or sad thing at all. It's just a thing." I would find a certain joy, though, in a discovery that one of the basic tenants of science isn't universal. If truth is the goal, then what greater thrill is there then to move beyond conventional wisdom to find new truth where it wasn't expected? David Mar 10th 2012

In reply to raidet

This doesn't break the law of thermodynamics. If you read the article you'll see that it says that it takes in heat from the environment (which is energy) and converts that into light as well.This LED is only over 100% efficient if you only measure the electricity that it is consuming to run. If you also counted the heat it was absorbing from around it then it would be a lot less than 100% efficient.But this is still amazing and that it absorbs heat has some very cool (pun intended) and useful applications. Fabian Mar 9th 2012

Apple iPad 3 review (Spring 2012) (/reviews/tablets/2012-04/apple-ipad-3-reviewspring-2012)

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In reply to Fabian

My thoughts exactly, I was like what?? But heat is an energy!! Albeit this is amazing knowing that you can turn heat into a useable energy and a good one at that, so amazing idea. Just a little misleading article. Trustnoone Mar 10th 2012

In reply to raidet

This doesn't break the law of thermodynamics. If you read the article you'll see that it says that it takes in heat from the environment (which is energy) and converts that into light as well.This LED is only over 100% efficient if you only measure the electricity that it is consuming to run. If you also counted the heat it was absorbing from around it then it would be a lot less than 100% efficient.But this is still amazing and that it absorbs heat has some very cool (pun intended) and useful applications. Fabian Mar 9th 2012

In reply to raidet

wait, nvm, ignore my last comment, I read your comment wrong.

Fabian

Mar 9th 2012

In reply to raidet

you cannot violate the laws of thermodynamics.

Boo Boo The Fool

Mar 12th 2012

In reply to raidet

is not false, but in some aspects may not apply

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-03/09/230-percent-efficient-leds

04/24/2012

Ultra-efficient LED puts out more power than is pumped in (Wired UK)

Page 5 of 8

bigboy

Apr 7th 2012

A picowatt is one trillionth of a watt. This 69 picowatt LED does not make a meaningful amount of light. I am not a scientist but my understanding is that heat alone cannot be used to produce energy, a heat gradient to a lower heat is needed. Telanis Mar 9th 2012

In reply to Telanis

Heat is energy ;)

LJC

Mar 10th 2012

In reply to Telanis

There is a heat gradient due to the quantum mechanical properties of the band gap. This gradient is evidently only significant when the electrons in the circuit don't have very high energy to begin with, but if this avances more... Yuval Mar 10th 2012

In reply to Telanis

Yes that is what I am trying to figure out about this article. Energy is only produced when with heat flow. So they are not explaining something. Benjamin Mar 10th 2012

The title of this article is misleading and completely false. If you read the article, it's not violating any laws of thermodynamics. Yes, it's producing more photons than it would with the electrical power alone, but that doesn't mean it's pulling those photons out of nowhere. I agree that it's neat technology, but could we stop it with the sensationalized scientific journalism already? JustSomeGuy Mar 9th 2012

In reply to JustSomeGuy

The title doesn't say it's violating any laws of thermodynamics. It says power out is greater than power pumped in. Where pumping signifies electrical input. I'm pretty sure they would put "1st Law of Thermodynamics is Broken" as the title if that was what was happening.The title is completely accurate. Uberchile Mar 9th 2012

In reply to Uberchile

Well it sure sounds like they are suggesting that they are reversing the nature of thermodynamics. From taking a hot object and make it cold and converting that heat into photons then they are suggesting its possible to reverse the thermodynamic decay of the universe. Photons can then be reconverted back into electricy and made to do work. For instance a push of a light sail craft. If a specialized solar cell was specifically turned to the light emmitted by the diode you might be able to get over 50% of the electricity back to current? Well thats the question to look up. So far I think the max effecienty for solar I seen was 30% but thats for sunlight. LED's are more specific in light frequency I think which should increase effeciency. Dustman Mar 9th 2012

In reply to Uberchile

Actually, that's exactly what it's saying. Power is the energy input/output over time. If the LED has higher output power than input power, the law is broken. Of course, that's assuming the time spent inputting and outputting energy is the same. In this case, energy around the LED is part of the power being pumped in, so the law holds. pineapple Mar 10th 2012

Solar Cell --> LED --> Solar Cell = Higher efficiency w/ less heat?

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-03/09/230-percent-efficient-leds

04/24/2012

Ultra-efficient LED puts out more power than is pumped in (Wired UK)

Page 6 of 8

komirad

Mar 9th 2012

I understand the power and light levels we are talking about are vanishingly low. Is there a chance that this technology can be scaled up to more useful, everyday levels, like generating the equivalent light of a 60 watt incandescent bulb,say? If it could be scaled up, my first thought was coupling these LED's with solar cells to generate more electricity to power more of these lights, potentially creating a heat-fed perpetual-motion machine, but I realize that solar cells would never be efficient enough to make that work. Thomas Mar 9th 2012

In reply to Thomas

That's exactly what some of my friends were thinking. Say you've got a 1 W electricity source (thus a 2.3 W light output). You only actually need a photocell that is 1/2.3 = ~43.5% efficient in order to have perpetual, self-fed light. Any efficiency above that will effectively be an engine that converts heat into electricity.Note the significant difference here between this engine and normal engines. The normal conception of entropy is based on the assumption that you need a heat DIFFERENCE in order to convert head energy to any other form of energy (ie, you need a reason for heat to flow). However, this new engine would actually break that principle, because no matter how cold the LED is, powering it electrically would induce an endothermic process that would absorb what little heat was available and convert it to light. Suffice it to say, though I'm sure I'm missing some subtlety, it seems that this discovery disproves our classical conception of entropy. With enough of these, one could literally prevent the heat death of the universe. Josh Mar 10th 2012

In reply to Josh

The thing is, it actually does matter how cold the LED is. An engineer friend of mine read the journal article itself and reported that the effect only shows up when the LED is relatively hot, as in over 100 degrees Celsius. I don't have extensive physics training myself, but it seems plausible to me that whatever process is converting the LED's thermal lattice energy into light would itself become less efficient as the lattice energy decreases -- as the LED cools down. That would imply that a "light => photocell => light" loop as you describe might still work without continuing external electric input, but it would require (and consume) quite a bit of thermal energy from its surroundings. The heat provides the energy to be converted, and quantummechanical properties of the LED's material, with help from a tiny amount of current, provide the reason for the energy to flow. That wouldn't be perpetual motion or a challenge to the conventional understanding of entropy, but it does still sound like it could be very useful. Sean Mar 10th 2012

Position bunch of em n steal some of that ridic processor heat.

smoove

Mar 9th 2012

I guess it shines an entirely different light onto physics

Milu

Mar 9th 2012

I was thinking about how work is only done between two gradients, but for starters this is getting an electrical assist. and secondly i'm pretty sure there will always be less photons outside the led than inside so some sort of energy balance might be maintained??? Richard Mar 9th 2012

So, it's not breaking the 1st law, but it IS a free energy harvester. Either way, *awesome*. Derek Martin Mar 9th 2012

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-03/09/230-percent-efficient-leds

04/24/2012

Ultra-efficient LED puts out more power than is pumped in (Wired UK)

Page 7 of 8

Hush! Don't tell the POTUS about this breakthrough. He will be promoting this with stimulus funds to replace existing light bulbs. Plus the man global warming (AGW) crowd will going along with him. Wally Mar 9th 2012

In reply to Wally

Wow Wally, nice of you to dump your pathetic politics into a science article.

Chris

Mar 9th 2012

This seems like it could be a new innovation in home lighting and climate control... Bright summer interior lighting while helping cool your house? Energy companies probably wouldn't let this see the light of day.... ha ha ha Avant Mar 9th 2012

What is the process at which it absorbs heat?

Alex

Mar 9th 2012

It sounds like it might contradict the 2nd law of thermodynamics...

Space

Mar 9th 2012

Is there potential to link this to a photovoltaic unit? If so, could a perpetual "loop" be achieved by powering the LED with the photovoltaic cell that it, itself is powering? Would require some sort of up -scaling to be feasible I suppose. clide Mar 9th 2012

In reply to clide

I though the same thing at first but PV cells are not efficient enough for that yet but if they do get to 100% efficient we will then be able to use these as zero cost airconditioners. Even without the high efficiency needed to make the obvious heat fuelled "purpetual motion" machine this may still be a way to lower air conditioning costs in houses and offices. Early Grayce Mar 16th 2012

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