Hyper-V and Network Teams (Adaptive Load Balancing)

05/04/12
Hyper-V and Network Teams (Adaptive Load Balancing)
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Robert Goodwin 25 Points
Monday, April 28, 2008 8:24 PM
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Sign In to I used Broadcom's network management tools (2008 version) to create 2 teams. (adaptive load balancing) Vote
Server: Dell 1950 with 8 GB RAM and 2 quad core procs. It also has: 1 dual port Intel NIC and 2 onboard Broadcom NICs. Here is the issue: Each one with one intel nic and one broadcom nic. I have 2 team in network connections. On the Host OS, they work just fine. Within Hyper-V manager I create 2 virtual networks for each team. I then assign them to the virtual server. IN virtual server I configure IPv4. At this point the VM should be able to ping the attached switch.
It does not. The interfaces respond that the destination is unreachable (same subnet) The host can still ping the switch but the VM cannot. I am at my wits end with this. TOE is turned off. I have tried with intel NICS joined as a team and only broadcom nics, no team works. I have also tried both the network adapter and legacy network adapter. No luck. I also have added the NICs individually to the VM when I do that they work. Has anyone come across this at all? There is nothing about network teams and VMs anywhere. Thanks Reply Quote
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Answers Keith Mange [MSFT] 330 Points

Once Add Virtual Network, with Teamed Nics setup, cant browse ... Creative Workaround To Allow NIC Teams Using Hyper-V Hyper-V v2 Network Issue - Host / VM cant ping specific local IP ... Recommendations for Hyper-V 2008 R2 network redundancy NIC Teaming/bridge Windows 2008 R2 Hyper V How to get CPU load data for a virtual server Broadcom NIC Teaming and Hyper-V VM MAC Address Changes Drops VM ... Network Teaming
Physical NICs typically accomplish Adaptive Load Balancing by replacing mac addresses in outgoing packets with their mac addresses. I have seen this especially on ARP responses. assuming that mac 0 Unfortunately, the teamed NICs are the adapters in the only valid lost,addresses are those of the team so the mac addresses for the VMs get which creates problems Sign In to in the arp tables of the remote nodes.
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This posting is prov ided "AS IS" with no warranties, and conf ers no rights.
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BrianEh Citrix Labs (Partner, MVP)
27,386 Points
Tuesday, April 29, 2008 3:14 PM
HyperV core/server performance of guests vs Virtual Server 2005 R2 ...
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The problem is that most network teaming drivers can't deal with Hyper-V and have no allowances for it. This is more that Hyper-V is new (v1 - and still not in final release) and the vendors are scrambling to support it at the same time that administrators are playing with it. Started: 4/28/2008 Last Reply: 7/8/2011 Helpful Votes: 6 Replies: 26 Views: 26,308
Sign In to The parent partition of Hyper-V does not own the physical hardware - it simply manages it. Vote
If the network teaming drivers expect the operating system to 100% own the physical adapters, then the teaming software will not work running under Hyper-V.
social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US//5af859d0-d26f-4125-9f24-a52378933d80/
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If the teaming happened 100% at the hardware level (now user mode software components at all) then the teaming should (theoretically) work. Break your team, and remaove the teaming portion of your drivers and I will bet that everything will work. Also - do not apply any network setting to the physical adapter (that you see when you log in to the console). Those physical NICs are trying to act as passthrough Virtual Switch ports with only the Virtual Network Protocol active.
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All Replies nanunanu 70 Points

I have almost the same config on an IBM server that I've been testing this 2008 hyper-v stuff with... I found that for me; using the broadcom driver to make teams was completely unstable once I installed (as failures for long periods of time, 0 hyper-vhad in the host machine had startup device hyper-v and would pausehave something to do with etc)... I the team created prior to installing the role so that may Sign In to it - but ultimately I just disolved the team and continued testing... The machine was completely stable Vote with the team created prior to installing the hyper-v role. It definately seemed like a BACS vs hyper-v networking issue - that I expect to be resolved in a future release of the BACS 3 software. Reply Quote
Robert Goodwin
25 Points
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I am having the issue with both teh Broadcom teams as well as intel teams....
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Keith Mange [MSFT]
330 Points
Physical NICs typically accomplish Adaptive Load Balancing by replacing mac addresses in outgoing packets with their mac addresses. I have seen this especially on ARP responses. assuming that mac 0 Unfortunately, the teamed NICs are the adapters in the only valid lost,addresses are those of the team so the mac addresses for the VMs get which creates problems Sign In to in the arp tables of the remote nodes.
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This posting is prov ided "AS IS" with no warranties, and conf ers no rights.
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Robert Goodwin
25 Points
So what you are saying is that Hyper-V will not be able to use teamed NICS? Is there a workaround? DO I assign the same MAC Address to the Virtual NIC?
Sign In to Vote If I cannot use a teamed set of network cards with Hyper-V then I may as well use ESX.
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BrianEh Citrix Labs (Partner, MVP)
27,386 Points
The problem is that most network teaming drivers can't deal with Hyper-V and have no allowances for it. This is more that Hyper-V is new (v1 - and still not in final release) and the vendors are scrambling to support it at the same time that administrators are playing with it.
Sign In to The parent partition of Hyper-V does not own the physical hardware - it simply manages it. Vote
If the network teaming drivers expect the operating system to 100% own the physical adapters, then the teaming software will not work running under Hyper-V. If the teaming happened 100% at the hardware level (now user mode software components at all) then the teaming should (theoretically) work. Break your team, and remaove the teaming portion of your drivers and I will bet that everything will work. Also - do not apply any network setting to the physical adapter (that you see when you log in to the console). Those physical NICs are trying to act as passthrough Virtual Switch ports with only the Virtual Network Protocol active.
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ColinFraser (Partner)
5 Points
Wednesday, July 23, 2008 12:29 AM
Sign In to Vote The symptoms in our case were that the guests had no network connectivity off of the host machine.
We had a similar issue in our environment as well. We're running a dell m1000e blade chassis with m600 dual quad cores, 16gb ram, mirrored sas drives, windows 2008 x64 host with multiple windows 2003 32bit guests. The host has broadcom BCM5708S netxtreme II GigE adapters. BACS 3 version 11.0.20.0, NIC driver version 4.1.3.0. That is to say that the host could ping the guests, the guests could ping the host, but the guests could not ping any other computers on the network and no computers on the network could ping the guests - although other computers could ping the host. If we broke our team and bound the IP to one of the NIC's all would work fine, going back to teaming would break network communications once again. After much playing we found that the following resolved our issue: 1. 2. 3. 4. Force speed/duplex, disable IPV4 checksum offload and receive side scaling Break the team In hyperv manager remove the virtual network Recreate the team using the "create team" wizard 1. team type is smart load balancing 2. set one adapter to be a secondary adapter 3. enable auto-fallback disable mode 4. no vlans in use In our case the 2 physical Broadcom adapters in Network Connections have only QOS Packet Scheduler and Broadcom Advanced Server Program Driver checked The team in Network Connections has only Broadcom Advanced Server Program Driver and Microsoft Virtual Network Switch Protocol checked Go back into hyper-v manager and create a new external virtual network adapter and bind it to the BASP Virtual adapter. Assign your static ip to the hyper-v external virtual network adapter created above. In properties of the external virtual network adapter everything except Microsoft virtual network switch protocol is checked.
5. 6. 7. 8.
After this was done we found that we now had full network connectivity to the guests and vice versa. Failover also worked beautifully as well in this configuration. Disabling a switch port to the primary nic in the team caused the secondary nic to take over without even dropping a packet. One thing to note not setting one of the nic's as secondary appears to work fine until you shutdown both switch ports and try to bring them back up - network connectivity is not restored. Configuring the team with one adapter as secondary overcomes this issue. Hope this helps someone out there...we fooled around with it forever to get it working correctly. Colin
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Edited by ColinFraser

Wednesday, July 23, 2008 12:31 AM grammer
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MartinBH
210 Points
Wednesday, July 23, 2008 12:43 PM
Colin,
Thanks very much for taking the time to share your discovery!
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Aric Bernard (Partner)
75 Points
Wednesday, July 23, 2008 1:49 PM
FWIW - Microsoft does not "support" NIC teaming. Support for NIC teaming must be provided by the OEM of the NIC or server product. Due to a number of factors, most NIC teaming implementations (i.e. HP, Dell, etc.) cannot be supported
Sign In to in conjunction with Hyper-V. Even if you find a way to get it working the OEM will not support the Vote implementation. Edited by Aric Bernard
Wednesday, July 23, 2008 1:52 PM spelling
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millertime78 (Partner)
205 Points
Thursday, August 21, 2008 12:14 AM
MICROSOFT: HOW can you sell Hyper-V as an Enterprise application when it is not truly fault tolerant? I have 14 blades running Hyper-V and I have NO network redundancy to the host virtual machines... this Sign In to is ridiculous. What is Microsoft's Best Practice for Hyper-V Virtual Machine network redundancy / Vote resiliency? Why will nobody speak to this, formally? - I've open cases with both MS and HP... Microsoft states NO support... HP supports NO support for their teaming software and Hyper-V. Furthermore, it seems that these support agents don't care. Where does this leave us consumers? Well, I really hate to say it, but ESX is my only option here. Cummon MS !
Edited by millertime78
Thursday, August 21, 2008 3:21 PM spell
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Aidan Finn IT infrastructure (Partner, MVP)
300 Points
Saturday, October 18, 2008 8:25 PM
Sign In to Vote MS really needs to add the ability to bond multiple NIC's to a virtual switch ASAP, no matter what policy
Months have passed and there's still no movement from the OEM's when it comes to providing updated drivers for NIC teaming. Right now, lots of people are going to go with ESX instead because of it's ability to bond multiple NIC's to a virtual switch; some company policies dictate a requirement for true A+B power and networking all the way to a machine (either physical or virtual). has existed up to this point. Sometimes it's better to make a change for the better rather than standing up for something that's wrong. You've got a great product, let's make it complete.
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WayCoolKennel
20 Points
Tuesday, October 28, 2008 3:27 PM
@Colin,
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Sign In to Vote We have had to disable the BACS software ... and currently have no network fault tolerance... which.. is
You should excercise caution using this configuration Colin.... (network) will cause the hyperv box to fault (0x0d1). not good.... We may look again at ESX . Steve
I think you will find that a load
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Eric ETCHEBES
25 Points
Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:47 PM
Hello, i try team on a IBM x3650 with two broadcom NetXtremII adapter an the Windows 2008 Std with Hyper-V (5 VMs) server crash every day. At this time Teaming not work with Hyper-V, can we expect support with Win2008 R2 ?
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Ascendo
190 Points
Sign In to Vote Is it possible to use the 'bridge network connections' functionality on 2008 to provide similar capability?
We have managed to set up the broadcom nics for redundancy in a similar fashion to Colin. I really wish there was some kind of feedback from Broadcom about this, as we'd also prefer to remain with Hyper-V instead of movind to ESX. However, we do not wish to run in an unsupported configuration. Microsoft should be applying pressure on the OEMs about this.
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JohnGil
5 Points
Thursday, March 05, 2009 5:23 PM
WayCool..
1
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There was a bug in the BASP.SYS that caused a D1 Bugcheck. Make sure you have BASP1.2.9 or later.
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Eric ETCHEBES
25 Points
Thursday, March 05, 2009 5:57 PM
Hello, with the last driver Broadcom for IBM X3650 and last BACS temaing work good since two month in our server. 0 Teaming work to with last intel Proset driver on a Sun FIRE X4150. So it's a good news. Sign In to We use basp 1.2.10.
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PnoT00
50 Points
Monday, May 11, 2009 3:10 PM
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With the latest drivers everything has been working great for us in our production environment. I highly suggest running BACS on Hyper-V Server for some added ease of use.
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robk1969
0 Points
Thursday, March 25, 2010 1:23 AM
to team broadcom with adaptive load balancing on 2008r2 hyoerv hypervisor.
1. download the latest drivers to usb 2. download the latests bacs manager to usb 4 install bacs ignore the .net error as it is installed already. 5. go to program files in the comand line and migrae to broadcom bacs directory 6 run it and then build your load blance fail over smart team. after that assign an ip with sconfig tool and boom in the manager you will have a team to connect hosts to. Works like a champ. I have not tried this with intel as the drivers and seup are one huge install, but with the /e switch i think you can extract them. If anyone can try this with the intel chipset and let me know email me robk1969@gmail.com thanks
Sign In to 3. plug it int the hpervisor and install drivers Vote
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robk1969
0 Points
Thursday, March 25, 2010 1:24 AM
1. download the latest drivers to usb 2. download the latests bacs manager to usb 4 install bacs ignore the .net error as it is installed already. 5. go to program files in the comand line and migrae to broadcom bacs directory 6 run it and then build your load blance fail over smart team. after that assign an ip with sconfig tool and boom in the manager you will have a team to connect hosts to. Works like a champ. I have not tried this with intel as the drivers and seup are one huge install, but with the /e switch i think you can extract them. If anyone can try this with the intel chipset and let me know email me robk1969@gmail.com thanks
Sign In to 3. plug it int the hpervisor and install drivers Vote
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Ilia Chipitsine (Partner)
400 Points
Thursday, May 20, 2010 2:04 AM
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1. download the latest drivers to usb 2. download the latests bacs manager to usb 3. plug it int the hpervisor and install drivers 4 install bacs ignore the .net error as it is installed already. 5. go to program files in the comand line and migrae to broadcom bacs directory 6 run it and then build your load blance fail over smart team. after that assign an ip with sconfig tool and boom in the manager you will have a team to connect hosts to. Works like a champ.
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I have not tried this with intel as the drivers and seup are one huge install, but with the /e switch i think you can extract them. If anyone can try this with the intel chipset and let me know email me robk1969@gmail.com thanks we are using teaming + hyper-v on intel NICs. drivers 15.0 and higher support hyper-v. http://www.intel.com/support/network/sb/CS-029966.htm It didn't work for me exactly, something was different in our setup, but now it works like a charm
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Newbie x2
455 Points
Thursday, May 20, 2010 4:09 PM
Ilia,
Could tell a little more details, please? What is Intel driver setting (TCP chimney on or off?) How many teams do you have and what are they used for (VM, Live migration, Cluster shared vol/communication, etc) Does TEAM(s) in trunk mode? Do you use jumbo frames?
Sign In to What is the switch model. Vote
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400 Points
Friday, May 21, 2010 7:15 AM
Ilia,
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Could tell a little more details, please? What is Intel driver setting (TCP chimney on or off?) What is the switch model. How many teams do you have and what are they used for (VM, Live migration, Cluster shared vol/communication, etc) Does TEAM(s) in trunk mode? Do you use jumbo frames?
we are not using jumbo frames, we tested it, we do not understand how it supposed to work. if jumbo is enabled somewhere, that computer just send huge frames that are lost on computers with no jumbo support. it is stupid, we cannot enable jumbo everywhere (we can forget, for instance, on some machines). not sure about chimney, didn't touch that setting. is it worth to look at ? what we are running is 1) combine all intel nics in failover team 2) run multiple VMs over that trunk it is very simple, you do not have special tuning on switches (we use 3Com 5500G-EI and 4500G), from switch point of view single port is running at a time, 1Gig ethernet is enough for most applications.
Edited by Ilia Chipitsine
Friday, May 21, 2010 7:17 AM chimney
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400 Points
Friday, May 21, 2010 11:25 AM
it's not clear about chimney. in http://support.microsoft.com/kb/951037 is written that "no operating system can use chimney in case of Hyper-V". is that only related to host or guest os as well ? host can
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use chimney, but guest cannot use chimney ?
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Aric Bernard (Partner)
75 Points
Friday, May 21, 2010 4:01 PM
Jumbo frames are not generally used for server to server communication. Instead they are used for specialized application or subsystems with large pay loads. A good example is between a server and its iSCSI target. In Hyper-V (R1) TCP Chimney is not supported in guests. In Hyper-V R2 TCP Chimney is supported in
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jschar1
0 Points
Tuesday, January 11, 2011 7:59 PM
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I have windws 2008 X64 enterpise setup...I have 2 vhd's and have been working on using broadcom netXtreme II to do nic teaming. So far, i'm a little confused as to why I can team the nics fine in the host OS. I even setup them up fine in Hyper-v. The VHD's start normally, yet under network connections I see 2 nics. I think i'm very close and did what you said, but the results I get are strange. Suggestions? jschar1@gmail.com thanks
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MartinBH
210 Points
jschar1,
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you wrote " yet under network connections I see 2 nics." Is this within the VM or within the host OS? Martin
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William Lee
0 Points
Friday, July 08, 2011 9:37 PM
Here is a great walk-though I made up of how we made this work on a ibm 3650 M3 and a HS22 and the rest of our environment. First create the Team. Then you want to trunk the ports, create one managed vlan and use this for host access. Then create a Broadcom untagged vlan, set it up to allow trunking on all vlans through scvmm and set the tagging on the hyper-v side assigning the untagged vlan to the guest. The mac address no longer stay on the host when it moves and you can change the ip back and fourth Sign In to with no hitch. We tested this between a few different types and it works. Enjoy. Vote
Here is a skydrive walkthroug with pretty pictures: http://cid-d4bc1bf3c9a3f101.office.live.com/edit.aspx/Hyper-V
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