HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY OF THE VIRGIN ISLANDS

REPORT ON THE DELIBERATIONS OF THE STANDING FINANCE COMMITTEE APPOINTED BY THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY OF THE VIRGIN ISLANDS TO EXAMINE THE DRAFT ESTIMATES FOR THE YEAR 2012

HELD AT THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY CHAMBER IN ROAD TOWN FROM 26th JANUARY, 2012 TO 28th FEBRUARY, 2012

Honourable Ingrid Moses-Scatliffe

Speaker and Chairman of the Standing Finance Committee

Dr. the Honourable D. Orlando Smith, OBE

Premier,

Minister

for

Finance

and

Territorial Member

Dr. the Honourable Kedrick D. Pickering

Deputy Premier, Minister for Natural Resources and Labour and Member for the Seventh District

Honourable Ronnie W. Skelton

Minister

for

Health

and

Social

Development and Territorial Member

Honourable Mark H. Vanterpool

Minister for Communications and Works and Member for the Fourth District

Honourable Myron V. Walwyn

Minister for Education and Culture and Territorial Member

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Dr.

the

Honourable

Christopher

P.

Attorney General

Malcolm

Honourable Ralph T. ONeal, OBE

Leader of the Opposition and Member for the Ninth District

Honourable Delores Christopher

Deputy Speaker, Deputy Chairman of the Standing Finance Committee, and

Member for the Fifth District

Honourable J. Alvin Christopher

Member for the Second District

Honourable Andrew A. Fahie

Member for the First District

Honourable Julian Fraser, RA

Member for the Third District

Honourable Alvera Maduro-Caines

Member for the Sixth District

Honourable Marlon A. Penn

Member for the Eighth District

Honourable Archibald C. Christian

Territorial Member

Mrs. Phyllis Evans

Secretary Committee

of

the

Standing

Finance

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OFFICERS FROM THE MINISTRY OF FINANCE Mr. Neil Smith Ms. Diane Parsons Mrs. Trecia Thomas-Maduro Mrs. Daphne Frett Ms. Rhonda Glasgow Financial Secretary Budget Coordinator Budget Officer II Budget Officer I Ag. Budget Officer I

ATTENDING SECRETARIES Ms. Akesha Smith Senior Administrative Officer,

Ministry of Education and Culture

Ms. Dwynel Davis

Senior Executive Officer, Office of the Director of Public

Prosecutions

Ms. Joann Vanterpool

Deputy Clerk, House of Assembly

Mrs. Juana Samuel-Murry

Administrative Officer, Attorney Generals Chambers

Mrs. Keiyia Jackson-George

Programmer Finance

III,

Ministry

of

Ms. Kisha Donovan

Finance

Officer,

Ministry

of

Health and Social Development

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Mrs. Letaye Garrin

Human

Resources

Manager,

Ministry of Education and Culture

Mrs. Lisa Winter

Senior Executive Officer Attorney Generals Chambers

Mrs. Malcia Leonard

Human Resources Manager, Deputy Governors Office

Ms. Marsha-Ann Gumbs

Secretary I, House of Assembly

Ms. Nadia James Lord

Waste Education Officer, Solid Waste Department

Ms. Natasha Julius

Human

Resources

Manager,

Ministry of Health and Social Development

Mrs. Nolma Chalwell

Secretary, Commission,

Public

Service of

Department

Human Resources

Ms. Raenisia Scatliffe

Administrative Registry

Officer,

Land

Mrs. Symone Penn

Senior Resources

Assistant Manager,

Human Deputy

Governors Office

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ATTENDING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY Mrs. Phyllis Evans CABINET OFFICE Ms. Sandra Ward Cabinet Secretary (CS) Clerk, House of Assembly (the Clerk)

Ms. Merlene Harrigan

Deputy Cabinet Secretary (DCS)

OFFICE OF THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS Mrs. Elizabeth Hinds Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP)

Mrs. Gale Potter

Senior Administrative Officer (SAO)

COMPLAINTS COMMISSION Mr. Elton Georges Complaints Commissioner (CC)

OFFICE OF THE REGISTRAR OF INTERESTS Mrs. Victoreen Romney-Varlack AUDIT Mrs. Sonia Webster Auditor General (AGen) Registrar of Interests (RI)

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GOVERNORS OFFICE / DEPUTY GOVERNORS OFFICE Mr. David Archer Permanent Secretary, Deputy Governors Office (PSDGO)

Mrs. Natalie Fahie-Smith

Private Secretary, Governors Office (PSGO)

Mrs. Kara Penn-Stoutt

Finance

and

Planning

Officer,

Deputy

Governors Office (FPODGO)

Mrs. Michelle Donovan-Stevens

Ag. Director of Human Resources (AgDHR)

Ms. Shavon Henley

Ag. Deputy Director, Human Resources (AgDDHR)

Mrs. Jacquelin Henry

Accounts Manager

Ms. Sharleen Dabreo

Director of Disaster Management (DDM)

Ms. Paula Ajarie

High Court Registrar (the Registrar)

Mrs. Stephanie Benn

Registrar General (RG)

Mrs. Eunice Crawford

Court Manager, Magistracy (CM)

Mrs. Janice Smith

Senior Administrative Officer, Magistracy (SAO)

Honourable Christopher Malcolm

Attorney General (AG)

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Mrs. JoAnn Williams-Roberts

Solicitor General (SG)

Mrs. Juana Samuel-Murry

Administrative Officer, Attorney Generals Chambers (AOAGC)

Mrs. Luette Malone-Daniel

Financial Comptroller, Royal Virgin Islands Police Force (FCRVIPF)

Ms. Layla Jones

Senior Administrative Officer, Law Reform Commission

Mr. Errol George

Director, Financial Investigation Agency (DFIA)

Mr Julien Johnson

Chief

Operating

Officer,

Financial

Investigation Agency (COOFIA)

Mr. Reynell Fraser

Commissioner of Police (COP)

Mr. David Morris

Deputy Commissioner of Police (DCOP)

PREMIERS OFFICE Mrs. Rosalie Adams Permanent (PSPO) Secretary, Premiers Office

Mr. Jamal Jones

Finance and Planning Officer, Premiers Office (FPOPO)

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Mrs. Elvia Smith-Maduro

Assistant Secretary, Premiers Office (AS)

Ms. Najan Christopher

Assistant

Secretary,

External

Affairs,

Premiers Office (AS/EA)

Mrs. Arliene T. Penn

Director

of

Communications,

Premiers

Office (DC)

Ms. Elise Donovan

Financial Literacy Coordinator, Premiers Office (FLC)

Captain Baboucar Sallah

Director, BVI Shipping Registry (DVISR)

Mr. Raymond Phillips

Director, (DDPU)

Development

Planning

Unit

Mr. Dennis Jennings

Chief Immigration Department (CIO)

Officer, Immigration

Mrs. Geraldine Ritter-Freeman

Chief Information Officer, Department of Information and Public Relations (CInfO)

Ms. Lizette George

Director, (DTCA)

Trade

and

Consumer

Affairs

Ms. Hadassah Ward

Director, BVI Tourist Board (DBVITB)

Mrs. Malcia Smith-Hamilton

Deputy

Director,

BVI

Tourist

Board

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(DDBVITB) Ms. Jaslyn A. Frett Financial Comptroller, BVI Tourist Board (FCBVITB)

MINISTRY OF FINANCE AND DEPARTMENTS Mr. Neil Smith Financial Secretary, Ministry of Finance (FS)

Mrs. Maria Smith-Thomas

Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Finance (FPOMF)

Ms. Rhonda Glasgow

Budget Officer I

Ms. Daphne Frett

Budget Officer I

Mr. Wade Smith

Comptroller of Customs

Mr. Leslie Lettsome

Deputy Comptroller of Customs (DCC)

Mr. Clinton Romney

Assistant Comptroller of Customs (ACC)

Mr. Shawn Newton

Accounts Officer II

Mrs. Sylvia Moses

Commissioner of Inland Revenue (CIR)

Mr. Orris Thomas

Deputy Commissioner of Inland Revenue (DCIR)

Ms. Sherri Ortiz

Executive
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Director,

BVI

International

Finance Centre (EDBVIIFC)

Mrs. C. Maritza Mercer

Chief Operations Officer, BVI International Finance Centre (COOBVIIFC)

Ms. Pascha Stoutt

Acting Postmaster General, Post Office (AgPG)

Ms. Lucia Donovan

Deputy Director of Information Technology (DDDoIT)

Mrs. Dorea T. Corea

Deputy Director, Internal Audit (DDIA)

Mr. Simba Todman

Internal Auditor II

MINISTRY OF NATURAL RESOURCES AND LABOUR

Mr. Ronald Berkeley

Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour (PSNRL)

Mrs. Louann Hodge-Smith

Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour (FPONRL)

Ms. Heather James

Administrative Officer, Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour (AOMNRL)

Mr. Lloyd Williams

Acting Assistant Manager, BVI Fishing Complex

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Mrs. Erica Smith-Penn

Chief Register of Lands, Department of Land Registry(CRL)

Mr. Kelvin Dawson

Registrar of Lands

Mr. Winston Donovan

Chief Surveyor (CS)

Mr. Dwayne Nibbs

Deputy Chief Surveyor (DCS)

Mr. Kelvin Penn

Acting Chief Conservation & Fisheries Officer, Conservations and Fisheries

Department (AgCCFO)

Mrs. Janice Rymer

Acting

Labour

Commissioner,

Labour

Department (AgLC)

Mrs. Stephanie Williams

Deputy

Labour

Commissioner,

Labour

Department (DLC)

Mrs. Gloria Rhymer

Accounts Officer

Mr. Bevin Braithwaite

Chief

Agricultural

Officer,

Depart

of

Agriculture (CAO)

Mr. Joseph Smith-Abbott

Director, National Parks Trust (DNPT)

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MINISTRY OF EDUCATION AND CULTURE Dr. Marcia Potter Ag. Chief Education Officer, Department of Education and Culture (AgCEO) Ms. Tasha Bertie Acting Deputy Secretary, Ministry of Education and Culture (AgDS)

Ms. Jillian M. Phillip

Acting Deputy Chief Education Officer, Department (AgDCEO) of Education and Culture

Mrs. C. Jovita Scatliffe

Acting Ministry

Finance of

and

Planning and

Officer, Culture,

Education

(AgFPOEC)

Mrs. Stacy Brewley

Acting Senior Accounts Officer, Ministry of Education and Culture (AgSAcctsO)

Ms. Lorna L. Stevens

Assistant Secretary, Ministry of Education and Culture (AS)

Mr. Patrick Harrigan

Ag. Director, Department of Youth Affairs & Sports (AgDYAS)

Ms. Janet Williams

Accounts Officer, Ministry of Education and Culture

Ms. Koreen George

Acting Accounts Supervisor, Department of Education and Culture (SAcctOEC)

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Ms. Harriette Riviera

Human Resources Manager, Department of Education and Culture (HRMEC)

Mrs. Brenda Lettsome-Tye

Ag. Director of Culture (AgDDC)

Ms. Melissa Amey

Ag. Principal, Elmore Stoutt High School (AgPrincipal)

Mr. Pete Smith

Senior Administrative Office, Elmore Stoutt High School (SAOESHS)

Mrs. Suzanne Greenaway

Chief Librarian, Library Services Department (CL)

Mr. Orlando Thomas

Accounts (AcctOLS)

Officer

II,

Library

Services

Mr. Richard Holder

Superintendent, Her Majestys Prison (the Superintendent)

Dr. Karl Dawson

President, H. Lavity Stoutt Community College (the President)

MINISTRY OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT Mrs. Petrona Davies Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Health and Social Development (PSMHSD)

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Mrs. Carolyn Stoutt-Igwe

Deputy Secretary, Ministry of Health and Social Development (DSHSD)

Mr. Anthony McMaster

Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Health and Social Development (FPOHSD)

Ms. Kisha Donovan

Finance Officer, Ministry of Health and Social Development (FOHSD)

Ms. Natasha P. Julius

Human Resources Manager, Ministry of Health and Social Development

Dr. Irad Potter

Chief Medical Officer, Ministry of Health and Social Development (CMO)

Mrs. Noelene Levons-Clarke

Ag. Coordinator, HIV/AIDS, Ministry of Health and Social Development

Mrs. Victoria Wheatley

Manager, Adina Donovan Home (MADH)

Ms. Jasmine Joseph

Assistant Manager, Adina Donovan Home (AMADH)

Mr. Levor Lettsome

Accounts Officer, Adina Donovan Home (AcctOADH)

Mr. Anslem Myers

Manager, Solid Waste Department (MSWD)

Dr. Ronald Georges

Ag. Chief Executive Officer, BVI Health Services Authority (AgCEOBVIHSA)

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Mrs. Cedorene Malone-Smith

Director of Hospital Services

Mrs. Lilimay Lettsome-Carlton

Acting Finance Officer, BVI Health Services Authority (BVIHSA)

Mr. Don Lewis

Operations Services

Manager,

Community

Health

Dr. June Samuel

Chief of Medical Staff, Peebles Hospital

Mrs. Andrea Hamm

Manager, Sandy Lane Centre (MSLC)

Ms. Lorolie Connor

Coordinator, Gender Affairs (CGA)

Mr. Carnel Smith

Chief Environmental Officer, Solid Waste Department (CEOSWD)

MINISTRY OF COMMUNICATIONS AND WORKS Mrs. Arlene Smith-Thompson Ag. Permanent Secretary (AgPSCW)

Mrs. Pearline Scatliffe-Leonard

Human Resources Manager, Ministry of Communications and Works (HRMCW)

Mrs. Margaret Jones-Greene

Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Communications and Works (FPOCW)

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Ms. Diane Todman

Accounts

Officer,

Ministry

of

Communications and Works(AcctOCW)

Mr. Arriel Donovan

Manager , Facilities Management Unit (FM)

Ms. Sueaco Harrigan

Accounts Officer, Facilities Management Unit (AcctOFMU)

Mr. William Penn

Deputy Chief Fire Officer, Fire and Rescue Services (DCFO)

Ms. Jo-Ann Barzey

Accounts Officer, Fire and Rescue Services (AcctOFRS)

Mr. Manoherlal Kerof

Acting

Director,

Water

and

Sewerage

Department (AgDWSD)

Mr. Bernard Grant

Ag. Deputy Director, Water and Sewerage Department (Ag. DDWS)

Mr. Kyle Moses

Accounts Supervisor II, Water & Sewerage Department

Ms. Lorna Christopher

Commissioner of Motor Vehicles, Department of Motor Vehicles (CMV)

Mr. Gregory Skelton

Senior Accounts Officer, Department of Motor Vehicles (SenAcctsO)

Mr. Reynell Turnbull

Manager, Telephone Services Management Unit (MTSMU)

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Dr. Drexel Glasgow

Ag. Director, Public Works Department (AgDPWD)

Ms. Rekeema Turnbull

Senior

Accounts

Officer,

Public

Works

Department (SAcctOPWD)

Mr. Jose deCastro

Ag. Deputy Director, Chief Architect, Public Works Department (AgDDPWD)

Ms. Haley Trott

Senior Planning Officer

Ms. Simera Durante

Human Resources Manager, Public Works Department (HRMPWD)

Mr. Andrew St. Hilaire

Acting Director, Civil Aviation (AgDCA)

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KEY TO ABBREVIATIONS AcctMDeHR AcctOII ACOC ADYA ADS AG AgAcctGen AgAMBVIFC AGC AGen AgCCFO AgCEO AgCFO AgCTO AgDAcctGen AgDC AgDCCFO AgDCEO AgDCFO AgDCInfO AgDDHR AgDHR AgDPWD AgDSNRL Accounts Manager, Department of Human Resources Accounts Officer II Assistant Commissioner of Customs Assistant Director of Youth Affairs Assistant Director of Sports Attorney General Acting Accountant General Acting Assistant Manager, BVI Fishing Complex Attorney Generals Chambers Auditor General Acting Chief Conservation and Fisheries Officer Acting Chief Education Officer Acting Chief Fire Officer Acting Chief Training Officer Acting Deputy Accountant General Acting Director of Culture Acting Deputy Chief Conservation and Fisheries Officer Acting Deputy Chief Education Officer Acting Deputy Chief Fire Officer Acting Deputy Chief Information Officer?? Acting Deputy Director of Human Resources Acting Director of Human Resources Acting Director of Public Works Department Acting Deputy Secretary, Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour AgDYAS AgDWS AgFPONRL Acting Director of Youth Affairs and Sports Acting Director of Water and Sewerage Acting Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour
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AgLC AgPSCW

Acting Labour Commissioner Acting Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Communications and Works

AgPSEC AMADH AMSWD AONRL BC BVIAA BVIEC BVIFSC BVIHSA BVIIAU BVIIFC CAB CAO CC CDC CEHO CFD CIO CInfO CL CLRC Clerk CM CMV CP CRL CS

Acting Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Education and Culture Assistant Manager, Adina Donovan Home Assistant Manager, Solid Waste Department Administrative Officer, Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour Budget Coordinator B.V.I. Airports Authority B.V.I. Electricity Corporation B.V.I. Financial Services Commission B.V.I. Health Services Authority B.V.I. International Affairs Unit B.V.I. International Finance Centre Central Administration Building Chief Agricultural Officer Complaints Commissioner Curriculum Development Coordinator Chief Environmental Health Officer Conservation and Fisheries Department Chief Immigration Officer Chief Information Officer Chief Librarian Chairman, Law Reform Commission Clerk, House of Assembly Court Manager, Magistracy Commissioner of Motor Vehicles Chief Planner Chief Registrar of Lands Cabinet Secretary
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CSDO CSur CTO DC DCAO DCEHO DCIO DCIV DCIR DCL DCMV DCOC DCOP DCP DCS DCSur DDDM DDDoIT DDIA DDNPT DDoIT DDPU DDWS DeHR DFM DFS DG DGO DLC DOA

Chief Social Development Officer Chief Surveyor Caribbean Tourism Organisation Director of Communications, Premiers Office Deputy Chief Agricultural Officer Deputy Chief Environmental Health Officer Deputy Chief Immigration Officer Director of Civil Aviation Deputy Commissioner of Inland Revenue Deputy Chief Librarian Deputy Commissioner of Motor Vehicle Deputy Commissioner of Customs Deputy Commissioner of Police Deputy Chief Planner Deputy Cabinet Secretary Deputy Chief Surveyor Deputy Director of Disaster Management Deputy Director of Information Technology Deputy Director, Internal Audit Deputy Director, National Parks Trust Director of Information Technology Director, Development Planning Unit Deputy Director of Water and Sewerage Department of Human Resources Director of Financial Management Deputy Financial Secretary Deputy Governor Deputy Governor's Office Deputy Labour Commissioner Department of Agriculture
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DOE DoIT DP DPH DPP DPrin DPU DSCW DTB DTCA DTS DTSM DWS EDIFC FC FIA FM FOHSD FPOCW

Department of Education Department of Information Technology Deputy Postmaster Director of Primary Healthcare Director of Public Prosecutions Deputy Principal, Elmore Stoutt High School Development Planning Unit Deputy Secretary, Communications and Works Director of the Tourist Board Director of Trade and Consumer Affairs Director of Telecommunications Services Deputy Telephone Services Manager Director of Water and Sewerage Executive Director, B.V.I. International Finance Centre Financial Comptroller, BVI Tourist Board Financial Investigation Agency Facilities Manager Finance Officer, Ministry of Health and Social Development Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Communications and Works

FPODGO FPOEC FPOHSD

Finance and Planning Officer, Deputy Governors Office Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Education and Culture Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Health and Social Development

FPOMOF FPOPO FS GIS GO HHRC

Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Finance Finance and Planning Officer, Premiers Office Financial Secretary Government Information Service Governors Office Head, Human Rights Commission
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HLSCC HMP IAD IAIII JLSC LD LDCA MADH MBVIFC MCW MDBVIAA MEC MH&SD MNR&L MOF MSLC MSWD MTSMU MWCDA NAC NEIT NPT OECS PG PO PolSC PSHSD PSPO PSNRL PSC

H. Lavity Stoutt Community College Her Majestys Prison Internal Audit Department Internal Auditor III, Internal Auditor Department Judicial and Legal Services Commission Labour Department Land Development Control Authority Manager, Adina Donovan Home Manager, B.V.I. Fishing Complex Ministry of Communications and Works Managing Director, BVI Airports Authority Ministry of Education and Culture Ministry of Health and Social Development Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour Ministry of Finance Manager, Sandy Lane Centre Manager, Solid Waste Department Manager, Telephone Services Management Unit Manager, Wickhams Cay Development Authority National AIDS Coordinator New England Institute of Technology National Parks Trust Organisation of Eastern Caribbean States Postmaster General Premiers Office Police Service Commission Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Health and Social Development Permanent Secretary, Premiers Office Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour Public Service Commission
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PWD RC RG RI RL RVIPF SAcctONRL

Public Works Department Recreation Trust Registrar General, Civil Registry and Passport Office Registrar of Interests Registrar of Lands Royal Virgin Islands Police Force Senior Accounts Officer, Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour

SAOLRC SCA SD SecG SG SFC SM TB TCPD TSC The Principal The Centre The Force The Registrar The Superintendent TSMU UNESCO UVI UWI

Senior Administrative Officer, Law Reform Commission Senior Court Administrator Survey Department Secretary General Solicitor General Standing Finance Committee Senior Magistrate Tourist Board Town and Country Planning Department Teaching Service Commission Principal, Elmore Stoutt High School Sir Rupert Briercliffe Cultural Centre Royal Virgin Islands Police Force Registrar, Supreme Court and Commercial Court Superintendent, Her Majestys Prison Telephone Services Management Unit United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organisation University of the Virgin Islands University of the West Indies

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INTRODUCTION 1. The Chairman, Hon. Ingrid A. Moses-Scatliffe, MHA, welcomed Members and the Staff from the Ministry of Finance to the 2012 Standing Finance Committee (SFC) Meetings. She acknowledged the presence of the Secretary, Ms. Joann Vanterpool, and the Audio Technician, Mr. Dave Douglas. 2. The Chairman informed the Members that the mandate of the Committee was to examine the Recurrent Budget Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure and the Capital Budget Estimates of Receipts and Expenditure for the year 2012. 3. The Chairman referred Members to Standing Order 67 which outlined the procedures for conducting the Standing Finance Committee Meetings. She said that she hoped the deliberations would be useful and focused. The Chairman further stated that every effort would be made to obtain the verbatim reports for the Standing Finance Committee Meetings for 2012.

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REVENUE ESTIMATES Present: Mr. Neil Smith Ms. Patlian Johnson Ms. Diane Parsons Mrs. Trecia Maduro Financial Secretary, Ministry of Finance (FS), (MOF) Policy Analyst II, Ministry of Finance (PAII) Budget Coordinator, Ministry of Finance (BC) Budget Officer II, Ministry of Finance (BOII)

4.

The Financial Secretary (FS) stated that, in order to make the projections for 2012, he had looked at the trends from 2005 to 2011 by utilising the regression analysis method. Upon completion, the projections were perused to determine if there were any anomalies that needed to be adjusted based on any potential policy shifts for 2012. He explained that, as of 25th January, 2012, the projections had once more

changed, based on the 2011 year-end figures and further work carried out by the Ministry of Finance (MOF). He stated that the projections had increased by

approximately two million dollars ($ 2,000,000). 5. The Minister for Health and Social Development stressed the importance for the FS to provide the revenue collection strategy for the major categories especially pertaining to the Water and Sewerage Department. Head 1000-40100 Import Duties 6. The FS stated that one of the major categories was Import Duties from the Customs Department. He also stated that projections had been requested from each revenue centre, and the Ministry of Finance also used mathematical models to make projections that could be defended with some analytical rigour. He informed the Committee that the two sets of figures were scrutinised and, if discrepancies existed over a certain percentage, discussions ensued. He added that, in the event that the entity could not defend its projections, those of the MOF were utilised. He held the !"#$%&#%&'%"#$%

view that Customs' projections for 2012 were too ambitious, and the past collection history was incorporated in determining this Budget which was estimated at twenty seven point nine million dollars ($ 27,900,000). He also informed that this was a slight increase, and that allowances were made for inflation at one point two percent (1.2%) for the cost of goods, and a population increase. Head 1000-40200 Taxes 7. He stated that Subhead 1000-40265 - Property Tax had increased slightly, and the arrears for House and Land Taxes were not included in the estimates given for Property Tax. In relation to Subhead 1000-40250 - Payroll Tax, he explained that a problem of delinquency existed in that some persons were not paying as quickly as they should and some had not submitted any payments. He believed that there would be an increase in persons being employed, thus the estimates given for Payroll Tax. 8. The Leader of the Opposition (the LOP) queried who paid Payroll Tax to which the FS responded that it was the employer. 9. The LOP sought clarity to the response given by the FS as to whether or not the employee also paid Payroll Tax and whether a fair share was collected 10. The FS stated that the Payroll Act was concerned with the employer who should pay the Payroll Tax on behalf of the employer and the employees. He added that most employers deducted a portion of this Tax from their employees. He informed that there were cases of mis-representation, and felt that there was room for improvement. 11. The LOP suggested that this could be one area from which to seek additional revenue. He opined that the delinquency of Payroll Tax was enormous, and gave his view that the Inland Revenue Department should be more active in terms of collection. 12. The FS stated that an estimate of arrears for Taxes totaled $ 8.7 million of which Payroll Tax was $ 4.2 million.

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13.

The Minister for Health and Social Development questioned which categories of Taxes comprised the arrears, and the age of the arrears.

14.

The FS explained the categories of arrears as follows: Hotel Accommodation Tax - $ 1.042 million; Annual Liquor Licences - $ 2,000; Semi-annual Liquor Licences - $ 44.9 thousand; and Motor Vehicle Rental Tax - $ 282,000; Payroll Tax - $ 4.2 million; and Property Tax - $ 3.16 million.

15.

The FS stated that he would have to check, but that Payroll Tax would have been from when the Act came into force.

16.

The LOP made an observation that the Land Tax had not changed to which the FS affirmed.

17.

The FS stated that tax was charged on the anticipated rental value of a property and, in the case of land, the size (acreage) of the property also determined the value of the tax. He suggested that these taxes should be charged on basic property value which would be based on whether a property was zoned as residential or commercial.

18.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian noted the estimates given for Subhead 1000-40280 - Other Taxes for the years 2011 to 2012 as follows: $ 1.4 million for approved estimate 2011l; $ 32,000 for revised estimate; and $ 40,000 for estimate 2012. He questioned what category of taxes was considered as Other Taxes, and sought an explanation for the drastic decrease.

19.

The FS stated that, during a revenue enhancement exercise in 2010, a decision had been made to levy fees on remittances, and this was an allowance that had been made in the event it went into effect. He explained that, when it came time for the

implementation, it had been realised that it might have skewed the economy. He added that no further steps had been taken, and the estimates, therefore, had to be revised.

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20.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked whether a percentage was being proposed to be taxed on those properties based on their value.

21.

The FS stated that they had not reached to that point, and it was the principle that needed to be communicated. He further stated that, within the MOF, because they knew the rate at which these properties were being taxed would have an effect on the burden outside; they would have to obtain advice. He added that the initial step would be to use the value and adjust the rates in order for the tax burden not to increase.

22.

The Minister for Health and Social Development queried whether Property Tax was calculated on the potential rental income one can get for their property. He wondered whether Property Tax was going to head in the other direction, since we were experiencing a depressed economy, and it was difficult to get houses and buildings rented at the original rental rates.

23.

The FS stated that Property Tax was derived from the rental income as well as the acreage of the land. He stated that it was based on the market, and that the Tax should head in the other direction in a depressed economy, but he had not seen any evidence of a decrease. He also added that such a practice would not be allowed.

24.

The Minister for Health and Social Development suggested that a more stable rating be found for charging Property Tax.

25.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that it was fair to say that Property Tax was not increased annually. He added that, in five (5) to ten (10) years, the Government of the day may decide that a need exists for Property Tax to be increased. He also stated that rentals were declining, and the Inland Revenue

Department had not made any adjustments to reflect the decrease. 26. The FS added that Property Tax in the Virgin Islands was not exorbitant. He

explained that, when referring to an increase in taxes, it became interesting because the success of Virgin Islands was based on the fact that we have a relatively low tax !"#$%&+%&'%"#$%

burden. He also stated that any Government would have to bear that in mind when considering an increase in taxes. Subhead 1000-40720 Stamp Duty 27. The FS informed that one of the larger contributors to revenue included Subhead 1000-40720 - Stamp Duty, and noted that it decreased from what was approved in 2011 ($ 6,500,000); (Revised Estimate 2011 - $ 5,230,000 and Estimate 2012 - $ 5,000,000). He added that this was primarily due to occurrences in the industry in terms of buying and selling property in the Virgin Islands. 28. The Minister for Health and Social Development queried the amount of actual revenue for the Subhead for the year 2008, and wondered which direction this Subhead was heading as the estimates for 2012 were projected at $ 5,000,000. 29. The FS stated that the revenue for 2008 was $ 10,000,000, and that anomalies had existed in 2007 and 2008. He further stated that there were expectations that the market would have slow sales. 30. The PAII said that there had been an increase since the anomalies in 2007 and 2008. She added that, given the slow real estate sales market, the MOF had figured that it would be better to give a more conservative estimate of $ 5,000,000 versus continuing with an upward trend. She went on to say that it was difficult to predict based on the trend because it was always based on the current economic status and the level of anticipated sales. Subhead 1000-45120 Financial Services 31. The FS stated that the largest contributor to revenue for the captioned Subhead was attained from the Corporate Registry, and it was estimated at $ 180,000,000 for 2012.

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Subhead 1000-40680 - Water and Sewerage 32. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian noted the following for this Subhead: that Approved Estimate 2011 totaled $ 6,500,000; that Revised Estimate 2011 totaled $ 3,771,000; and that the Estimate 2012 was given as $ 4,000,000. He commented whether it was fair to say that we were losing revenue. 33. The FS explained that we were purchasing water at a higher rate than we were selling it, and that some issues existed with the billing system in the latter part of 2011. He advised that the billing issues will be sorted out, and efforts would be made to collect what was due. 34. The Minister for Health and Social Development referred to page 234 of the Estimates which outlined the Total Head 550 for the Water and Sewerage Department ($ 12,216,300). He also made reference to the following for Subhead 62600

Purchase of Desalinated Water: Actual Expenditure 2010 - $ 16,076,595; and Estimated Expenditure 2011 - $ 9,353,766. He noted that revenue collections had been estimated at $ 4,000,000, and concluded that such hemorrhaging needed to be addressed. 35. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian made a suggestion for the merging of the B.V.I. Electricity Corporation and the Water and Sewerage Department. 36. The Member for the Second District provided some background information on private haulers who sold water, on the water rates charged for residential ($ 12.00 per 1,000 gallons) and commercial ($ 25.00 per 1,000 gallons) water, and that the purchase price for water was $ 17.00 per 1,000 gallons. He stated that Government had the responsibility to provide clean and affordable water for its people in accordance with the Human Rights Convention. He suggested that, if the need arose for the rates to be revised, the Government could consider doing so. 37. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the blended payment (commercial and residential) covered the operating costs and the losses that were
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allowed for leakages (15%). He stated that something had gone wrong in terms of the whole operation. 38. The Member for the Second District interjected and said that the 15% for losses was an acceptable figure under any water system, and it had increased up to more than 40%. 39. The Minister for Health and Social Development continued by voicing an observation that he had made regarding a large portion of water being sold was charged at $ 12.00 per 1,000 gallons. He stated that the commercial consumers who used a larger

portion of the water were paying the larger portion of the cost. He reiterated, once more, that the problems at the Water and Sewerage Department (WSD) needed to be addressed. 40. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian referred to the water dispensers throughout the Territory, and questioned whether the WSD received payment for the water utilised. The FS responded that, if they were using water from the WSD's system, it should be metered. 41. The Premier interjected that personnel from the WSD would be appearing before the Committee in the future, and these queries could be addressed at that time. 42. The LOP wondered whether consideration was given to the water consumed by cruise ships which resulted in a lack of water for certain villages. 43. The FS stated that, in order for accuracy, the WSD would have to provide the answers to these questions. Comments by the FS on training 44. The FS stated that enough attention was not being paid to technical subjects when training was proffered. He explained that there was a shortage of technical personnel within the Public Service especially at WSD, Public Works Department and in the

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Ministry of Finance. He recommended that attention be placed on ensuring that persons be trained in those subjects. 45. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian concurred with the comments made by the FS. Comments by the FS in relation to revenue from Financial Services 46. The FS stated that the revenues from Financial Services had remained fairly resilient, and an increase was anticipated in 2012. He believed that this was due to the

robustness of the legislation, the diligence of the Regulator, and the fact that our primary product (Business Companies) was still perhaps the best. He advised that we needed to guard the industry zealously. He further stated that we were faced with some challenges that had been in the making since five (5) years ago, and that sixty cents of every dollar that we spent came from this sector. 47. The Member for the Eighth District queried whether Financial Services was the only Statutory Board from which revenue was collected. 48. The FS responded that Government collected taxes on behalf of the B.V.I. Ports Authority and the B.V.I. Airports Authority. He stated that the majority of the remittances were paid back to the respective Boards. Subhead 1000-40330 Trade Licenses 49. The LOP queried whether the new rates for Trade Licences had been implemented to which the FS responded in the negative. 50. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked for an explanation of the new rates. 51. The FS explained that, about a year and a half ago, a proposal was made to increase Trade Licence Fees, and they were doubled. He stated that there were some problems with identifying how much revenue would be collected because there were some data

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issues within the Trade Department. He re-emphasised that the fees were never implemented, and that Trade Licence Fees were extraordinarily low. 52. The Member for the Eighth District wondered whether the data issues had been resolved and whether a determination had been made regarding the collection of revenue. 53. The FS stated that the data issues had not been corrected. He explained that obtaining data in the Civil Service was a problem, and it was making it very difficult for decisions to be made. He stated that the Macro Fiscal Unit in the Ministry of Finance had been cleansing financial data and economic data for the past six months. He further stated that every Ministry should have an Economist who could give developmental advice and ensure that the data was available to make decisions. He also stated that, within the Territory, there was not the appreciation that the agency charged with requiring this data had an obligation as well to make sure that the Department obtained the data when it was requested. He was hopeful that this culture would change in the Civil Service and in the wider community. 54. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the various fees charged by Government may seem insignificant, but they had value. He added that these costs would be passed on to the consumer, and advised that we had to look at what was impacting businesses from a holistic point of view. He noted that the cost of

transacting business had escalated, and persons needed to pay attention. 55. The FS stated that fees for the Eastern Caribbean Supreme Court which had originated in the 1950s were still being charged to date. He stated that, what he was looking at in terms of fees, in addition to considering the effect it would have on the wider economy, was the real payment that one would have to make. He further stated that the fees being paid to Government were less than the fees that were being paid ten years ago in terms of real costs. He stated that he was not concerned with increasing the real price, but keeping the rate at the value that it was years ago. He also stated that we were doing more with less.
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56.

The Premier stated that, in the Budget, we had to make efforts to stimulate the economy, and an increase in fees could lead to a decrease in commercial activity and lowering some fees could also increase such activity. would be considered shortly, and presented to the House. He stated that these matters

57.

The Member for the Fifth District queried whether the legislation had been amended to incorporate the increases to the Trade Licence Fees to which the FS responded in the negative.

58.

The Minister for Health and Social Development questioned whether the fees for Trade Licences were being doubled.

59.

The FS informed that, in aggregate, some were doubled, and some were increased by a few percent. Subhead 1000-40520 Other Fines

60.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian made an inquiry about the projected Estimates in the amount of $ 3,600,000 for the captioned Subhead.

61.

The FS explained that the funding was from the IPOC Fund, and they had never been recorded in the Budget Estimates. He further stated that, in this Budget, the IPOC Fund was being utilised for specific purposes and therefore had to be recognised as revenue. Additional Query about Financial Services - Subhead 1000 - 45120

62.

The Minister for Health and Social Development queried the $ 180,000,000 that Financial Services anticipated for Estimate 2012.

63.

The FS stated that the Financial Services were operating in a tough environment, and the Commission had done well. He informed that they did not attend SFC Meetings, but arrangements could be made for them to appear if required.

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64.

The LOP suggested that arrangements should be made for representatives of the Financial Services to appear before the House of Assembly, once a year as they did for Cabinet, for a general discussion.

65.

The Premier stated that the representatives referred to above had appeared before the Committee on a previous occasion, and we would be quite happy to invite them.

66.

The Member for the Second District reminded the Committee that that would be based on the type of questions that would be asked because there is legislation protecting them from interference by Central Government.

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HEAD 810 67.

PUBLIC DEBT

The Minister for Health and Social Development noted the contents of this Head and enquired about the number of loans. He also noted that the debt service had been estimated at $ 19,490,600 for 2012.

68.

The FS informed that the loans totaled $ 112 million as of 31st December, 2011.

He

stated that the principal amount should decrease to $ 100,000,000. He also stated that the debt service of $ 19,490,600 covered principal and interest. He advised that the loans were fairly new, so the interest part of the payment would be fairly substantial. 69. The Minister for Health and Social Development wondered whether any consideration had been given to consolidating the debt. 70. The FS responded that that was one initiative he had intended to pursue when he had commenced his tenure at the Ministry of Finance, but circumstances had prevented him from doing so. He added that the prudent way was to consolidate the debt at a lower cost. He added that such a stance could result in the following: (1) having

more funds to do work, (2) increase recurrent expenditure due to not having the debt payments to make, and (3) maintain the recurrent expenditure at the current rate and increase the capital expenditure. 71. The Member for the First District asked the FS what had stopped him from consolidating the debt. 72. The FS stated that the main reasons were data and time. He stated that they had wanted to obtain a sovereign rating so that there would be no questions asked regarding the type of investment risk the Virgin Islands posed. He added that the process had moved slowly because of data issues, and then we were faced with the financial crisis. 73. The Member for the First District then gave a scenario that, if Government had consolidated loans, it could have earned approximately $ 5,000,000 per year in
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savings during the last seven (7) years. He then questioned the FS what could have been done within a given year to pool the resources (time and data) and earn such savings. 74. The FS informed that, when he had first spoken about it, it may have been considered a luxury in terms of possessing additional funds. He added that the need currently existed for acquiring the additional funds, and that we would have to focus our minds and efforts on accomplishing this goal. He once more referred to the data issues with which we were confronted, and which needed to be finalised. 75. The Member for the First District suggested to the Premier that, in order for Government to attain this type of revenue initiative, it should not be the sole responsibility of the Ministry of Finance. He stated that he would continue to

advocate for the establishment of an ad-hoc Unit whose mandate would be taskdriven and for the implementation of generating new revenues. The FS then informed that efforts had already commenced regarding the creation of such a Unit. 76. The Member for the Third District referred to the consolidation of debt, and queried which banking institution would Government approach to assume all of this debt. 77. The FS responded that we would not approach any institution, but opt to sell the debt on the market in the form of bonds. 78. The Member for the Third District requested an update about the bonds stating that much progress had not been garnered in procuring bonds for the past twelve years. 79. The Minister for Health and Social Development informed that the former administration (NDP at the time) discussed the issuance of bonds. He explained that substantial work had been completed to obtain a sovereign rating for the Territory from Moody's and Standard and Poor's. He stated that the latter companies had asked for additional data from both the private and public sectors. Upon the change in Government to the VIP administration, the Minister was not certain of the latest
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circumstances pertaining to this matter. He held the view that it was in the Territory's interest to continue the pursuit of a sovereign rating. 80. The FS reiterated the following: that there were issues pertaining to data and resources; the need to appoint more technical staff; the significance of having accurate and timely data; the need for the Macro Fiscal Unit having had to sanitise data for the past six (6) months that should have been accurate initially; the non-existence of individuals in the various Ministries who possessed the orientation to support the type of environment that we had in Government today; and the need for the private sector to cooperate upon receiving requests for data from the Public Service. 81. The FS stated that, due to the absence of the above, it was very difficult for the Virgin Islands to present a picture that was credible to any rating agency. He added that it would get to a point where questions would be asked, and Government had to be in a position whereby it could qualify the data presented. He further added that he could not responsibly move ahead with a rating exercise with these discrepancies because the rating we would obtain would not be complementary to the Virgin Islands. He informed that a rating exercise was expensive. He added that, in beginning an

exercise, the rating agencies would conduct interviews resulting in the rest of the world becoming aware of our status. He stated that, if we were to obtain a bad rating and we made a decision not to publish the outcome, questions would be asked as to why it was not published. He conveyed that the reputation of the Virgin Islands was the single most important marketing tool that we possessed. He also stated that, if we
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engage in an exercise like that and we were not confident that we would have something that would accurately reflect what we were portraying, it would have a detrimental effect on our reputation. 82. The Member for the First District referred to a previous statement made by the Premier with regard to the $ 51 million running deficit and wondered if it was reflected in the Budget as well as what contributed to the running deficit. 83. The FS stated that the Budget was different from a financial statement, in that it outlined plans for 2012. He also stated that it did not reflect the fiscal position, and the Premier would make the decision about the disbursement of the fiscal position/running deficit. 84. The Premier informed that he would prepare a statement and the information would be provided. 85. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian noted that the largest contributors to Public Debt related to the Peebles Hospital Project in the amount of approximately $ 90 million which was a loan from the B.V.I. Social Security Board and Banco Popular (page 62 of the Estimates). He sought confirmation as to whether $ 79 million was still available to complete the Project. 86. 87. The FS clarified that half of the $ 79 million had already been spent. The Member for the First District stated that he was concerned about the Peebles Hospital Project and the actions taken, and that generations to come would have to pay for decisions made. 88. The Member for the Third District referred to the running deficit of $ 51 million, and queried whether it were commitments that Government had made in the form of contracts that had been signed, or were we referring to people who the Government actually owed. The FS confirmed that it was money owed.

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89.

The Member for the Third District then queried whether it was a question of not having the money to pay the persons immediately or in the short-term. He noted that, for the last two (2) years, we have had the problem of not being able to meet our commitments immediately like we did five (5) years ago.

90.

The FS responded that the running deficit dealt with revenue and expenditure for a particular period. He explained that the expenditure exceeded revenue.

91.

The Member for the Third District gave a scenario of the Premier making a statement on 30th March knowing that on 31st March the revenue would have superseded all expenditure. The Member for the Third District wondered whether we should be concerned.

92.

The FS stated that he was concerned. He stated that, when we looked at what we anticipated to collect, we did not have the revenues to cover.

93.

The Member for the Third District requested that the figures of the running deficit be provided immediately.

94.

The FS stated that the figures would be provided with a directive from the Premier, and it would not be possible to do so immediately. He also stated that, in looking at what was collected in 2011 and the commitments for 2011, a negative balance resulted.

95.

The Member for the Second District queried whether the running deficit had been approved by the House of Assembly.

96.

The FS said no. He informed that there were provisions in the Act that allowed advances to be made, so one could say that those were made under those provisions.

97.

The Member for the Second District stated that we arrived in these circumstances because we constantly made commitments based on Cabinet decisions. He informed that only the House of Assembly had the authority to withdraw $ 51 million from the Consolidated Fund. He relayed that the House of Assembly met every sixty days !"#$%($%&'%"#$%

between Sittings. He stated that the House of Assembly was not a rubber stamp for Cabinet, and this practice needed to be dis-continued. He agreed that the Financial Act gave permission to extend a Warrant, but we needed to look at the Constitution regarding this matter. He gave his view that you could not extend a Warrant of that magnitude and then state that the country had commitments. He emphatically stated that he would not be supporting such decisions anymore. 98. The Member for the First District stated that one person could not have spent $ 51 million on his own. He once more asked how the running deficit was factored in in the Budget for 2012, although the Budget was not a financial statement. 99. The FS stated that one would have to examine the Budget in the context of the explanation to the Budget which was the Budget Speech that had been delivered last week. 100. The Member for the First District noted that the Budget for 2012 had been estimated at over $ 200 million and that the Committee would be informed of the cost of the running deficit. He wondered how that would equate to the finances of the Territory, in terms of the projections for 2012 and clearing the $ 51 million. 101. The FS responded that specific reference was made in the Budget Speech to how those commitments would be dealt with, and what would be done to alleviate any situations that may arise. 102. The Minister for Health and Social Development referred to Section 103 of the Constitution that gave the Minister for Finance the authority to withdraw money from the Consolidated Fund for whatever was required when there were insufficient funds. He added that the Finance Management Act contained a provision to issue advances for up to one and a half percent of the current year's budget; once it got to that level, it needed to be brought before the House and regularised. He also referred to the Sittings of the House of Assembly being required to meet every sixty (60) days, and mentioned that the former administration (NDP) met every two weeks at that time.
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103.

The Member for the Second District referred to the Minister for Health and Social Development's comment to issue advances for up to one and a half percent of the current year's budget. He then noted that one and a half percent of $ 280 million could not equate to $ 51 million. He felt that it would do justice to this House to retract all previous statements that had been made in this House regarding running deficits, and state that it was un-authorised expenditure.

104.

The Member for the Third District interjected that he did not think that it was mentioned that the running deficit of $ 51 million was not all un-authorised spending.

105.

The Member for the Sixth District queried whether any other revenue streams had been identified besides Trade Licences without impacting our citizens' finances.

106.

The FS stated that, within the Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour, there was a suggested levy that could be borne by visitors to the Territory. He added that they were very cognisant of not wanting to thwart the economics of the country because, if a fee was placed wrongly, people's behaviour may modify which may actually be detrimental.

107.

The Member for the Eighth District questioned if a quantified assessment had been carried out to which the FS said no.

108.

The Member for the Third District noted that $ 500,000 had been appropriated under Natural Disaster Management Infrastructure Rehabilitation (CDB) (page 254 of the Estimates), and asked for more detail.

109.

The FS stated that, in the event the loan commenced this year, we would only be making interest payments.

110.

The Member for the Third District wondered whether the placement of $ 15 million in the reserves would make us compliant with the borrowing guidelines.

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111.

The FS stated that that plus having cash balances of approximately $ 65 million. He added that it also involved projections that had been made and the type of existing projects.

112.

The deliberations pertaining to revenue concluded with a discussion on the qualifications for the borrowing guidelines, and the role the of framework the for fiscal and

recommendations

(responsibility),

U.K./Foreign

Commonwealth Office in the budget process. 113. The Chairman thanked the panelists and other staff members who represented the Ministry of Finance.

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CONSTITUTIONALLY ESTABLISHED DEPARTMENT HEAD 700 Present: Mrs. Phyllis Evans Clerk, House of Assembly (The Clerk), Accounting Officer (AO) 114. The Chairman welcomed the Clerk to the proceedings and asked that she state her name and position for the records to which the Clerk complied. The Chairman then invited the Clerk to make her presentation. 115. The Clerk then started her presentation by providing a synopsis of the House of Assembly (HoA). She stated that it was formerly known as the Legislative Council and was constitutionally changed to an established body by the Virgin Islands Constitution Order, 2007. The offices of the HoA have a staff complement of 15; however, the office has been operating with nine persons since one person had been reassigned to the MNR&L as a Private Secretary to the Deputy Premier and Minister of Natural Resources and Labour. The Clerk added that with such a skeleton staff, their human resources were overwhelmed with the tremendous amount of work generated in the HoA, and the pressures placed particularly on the Clerk and the Ag. Deputy Clerk. 116. The Clerk stated that the HoA was a customer-based organisation which dealt with Members and the public on a daily basis. She further stated that in keeping with their mission to provide support services for Members in the exercising of their parliamentary functions in an informed and efficient manner, and to inform the public on an ongoing basis about the parliamentary procedures of the HoA, she had envisaged implementing a strategic plan to assist staff with becoming better public officers while in their line of duties. 117. The Clerk shared that it was intended to plan, where individuals of small groups such as the HoA became the beneficiary client of what was planned and delivered to the !"#$%((%&'%"#$% HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

public. She said that in creating the plan, all officers in the HoA would have a stake in the decision-making process, and will broaden their knowledge and base skills in the execution of their duties. It would also help to: provide a framework for action that was embedded in the mind-sets of the organisation and its employees; provide a framework for managers and employees to assess and make alternative decisions using a common language, a shared sense of beliefs, values and the organisations directions; to enable the organisation to better understand its operational environment and to develop the necessary capacity to function as it should; to develop the organisations purpose, business and values among the stakeholders; and to improve the communication teamwork between management and staff. 118. The Clerk then proceeded to outline the HoA 2012 work plan. She stated that with the global economic constraints affecting the Virgin Islands, she was cognizant of the fact that there was a 7% cut on operating expenses which contributed to the setback of a number of projects envisaged for 2012. However, the Clerk stated, there were some realities that needed to be realised in order for the HoA to function. 119. She noted that the HoA continued to share its building with the Courts which posed security and maintenance concerns. The Clerk added that some of the problems included the maintenance of the air conditioning units among others. She then outlined the following concerns which needed to be urgently addressed which included the HoA building where proceedings took place and its offices: air conditioning and air quality at the HoA, a fire escape at the office of the HoA, the upgrade of the dcor at the offices of the HoA which included the chairs, carpets, windows, blinds and the security doors. The Clerk also stated that one heavy duty photocopier was required with a scanner, printer and fax at the offices. 120. She stated that human resources was also a challenge and explained that a request was made for the upgrade of the AO post to SAO post to attract public officers to apply, and the upgrade of Clerical Trainee to that of Executive Officer was to motivate and encourage staff within the organisation. The Clerk also stated that there was a dire
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need for a Protocol Officer and requested to have the post created and assigned to the HoA. 121. The Chairman thanked the Clerk for her presentation and invited Members to pose any questions they may have. 122. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired about the ceiling of the HoA and why it was so busy, referring to the hanging microphones, air condition vents, speakers, etc. The Clerk responded that, as outlined in her presentation, although it was inadvertently left out, but they were also part of the package to improve the dcor of the HoA. She stated that when she joined the HoA as Clerk in 2009, the hanging microphones had been present. 123. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian thanked the Clerk for the comprehensive report on the HoA. He stated that as a new Member to the HoA, he shared a lot of the concerns expressed by the Clerk which he had observed during his first two months with the HoA. He outlined some security issues and also stated his concerns regarding the air conditioning problems. He said it seemed as though the building had multiple air conditioning units which resulted in on one side of the building being cold, and the other side of the building, which he shared space with the Opposition Members, was warmer on a regular basis. He further stated that some days the air conditioning seemed to be up and others it was down, and just seemed to be more warm than cold. 124. Territorial Member Archibald Christian also noted that there seemed to be special issues where the HoA had outgrown its allocated space and items were being stored where they should not, for example, in the conference room and in a back cubicle office. He added that he believed the offices should have a certain level of appeal, not just to the Members and Staff, but also to the public. 125. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that one of the areas he wished to render assistance to the Clerk was that of energy efficiency and using energy efficient items. He suggested that energy efficient lighting be used throughout the offices. He
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strongly supported the use of energy efficient equipment and noted that there were compact fluorescent bulbs now available, as well as LED lights and solar air conditioning units and suggested that these be used to cut the HoAs energy costs. He enquired whether, given the budgetary constraints, the HoA would have to work with the nine members or whether they would expect the staff to return to its full complement. He stated that he accumulated quite a bit of paperwork and while he considered himself to be quite proficient at filing, he admitted that some additional help was needed, but did not want to impose on the limited staff available. 126. The Clerk stated that the full complement was 15. She explained that that was the rationale behind requesting the posts upgrades for the Administrative Officer (AO) and Clerical Trainee posts since staff had been lost for various reasons, whether it was through further studies or transfers. The Clerk further explained that there was not a lot of upward mobility in the organisation and that in order to progress, one had to leave the organisation. 127. The Clerk stated that the post of AO had been repeatedly advertised in the public service but with no response. She added that the office had requested that the post be upgraded and it had been, so she was now requesting that the Members approve the upgrade to a Senior Administrative Officer (SAO) post. The Clerk stated that there were a number of AO posts within the public service and if the position was upgraded it would attract more applicants versus the AO post which was simply a lateral move. She also stated that the upgrade of Clerical Trainee to Executive Officer was internal to the organisation and once those upgrades were approved, with the addition of the Protocol Officer, a new post which was being proposed. The Clerk stated that there was a need for a Protocol Officer at the HoA and to support the offices of the HoA. She added that with 13 Members and one Speaker, the Clerk was the person who fulfilled the duties and at times, it could be quite a task. The Clerk said that while she understood there would be no new positions, it was a unique request for the HoA and reiterated that there was a need for such an officer.

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128.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether it was reflected in the 2012 Budget and the Clerk stated that it was not because the HoA was asked not to ask for any new posts. She explained that they could have upgraded, but not to request any new posts, which is why she was making the appeal before the Members. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian then enquired about the status of the repairs to the damaged security fence. The Clerk responded that the office was currently awaiting word on the final costs and the contact person was overseas at the moment.

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Subhead 61430 Grounds and Gardens 129. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian noted that the Subhead contained $8,100.00 per annum and enquired whether the person worked on a monthly basis or as the need arose. The Clerk responded that there was a grounds-man who handled the garbage and maintained the grounds both at the offices and at the HoA. He stated that he had never seen the person. The Clerk replied that the person started after hours and one would have to be working really late to see him. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christan enquired if the grounds-man worked in the evenings and she confirmed that he did, as well as on Saturdays as needed. 130. The Member for the Third District made reference to the storage concerns expressed by Territorial Member Archibald. C. Christian stated that the conference room on the first floor was being used for storage and requested that it be cleared for its intended use. The Clerk affirmed that it would be. The Member reiterated that he meant a cleared conference room. 131. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian also expressed concerns about the air quality in the offices of the HoA, stating that he had always been fortunate to work in an allergen free environment. However, since he came to work in the HoA building, he had experienced an increase in sinus and respiratory problems. He then enquired whether anyone had conducted any inspections of the air condition units to determine whether there was also a mould problem in the building. 132. The Clerk responded that, in 2010, there was a thorough cleaning and the mould issues had been addressed. She explained that it appeared as though the particular floor where his office was located had water seepage problems, where water seeped into the walls especially after a certain amount of rain fell. The Clerk admitted that she had noticed the problem which also occurred in her office. Territorial Member sought clarification on the location of her office in comparison to his. The Clerk clarified the locations and reiterated that she was aware of the problem, but that there was a lot of water seepage through the walls.
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133.

The Member for the Fifth District also made reference to the storage problem faced by the HoA. She highlighted the office of the Ag Deputy Clerk and wondered how the officer was able to function in those conditions, stating that the situation was unacceptable. The Member noted that there were boxes piled all around the officers desk and stated she would have been unable to work in that type of environment. She stated that while she did not think there was any additional storage space in the building, something had to be done to alleviate the storage situation.

134.

The Member for the Fifth District then referred to the Clerks appeal for a Protocol Officer and stated that the issue of protocol needed to be addressed within the entire public service. She added that she believed the request to be reasonable and referred to past experiences at different functions. She stated it was a case whether the officer had to be appointed within the service and utilised throughout the Government, but she deemed it to be a dire need that was necessary for the Government to progress.

135.

The Member for the Fifth District also referred to the Clerks request for an upgrade of the AO post. She admitted that she was not familiar with the office situation and whether there was upward mobility for the staff, but she believed that the establishment should be dealt with.

136.

The Member for the Third District enquired about the duties of the Protocol Officer and requested an outline of the officers role.

137.

The Clerk stated that a job description had not yet been prepared, but among other things, the Protocol Officer would be available to offer support to Members that they deserved, particularly when they travelled. For example, she explained, when the Speaker travelled to Trinidad approximately two weeks earlier, the Clerk was the person who made all the preparations, including flight arrangements, accommodation and ensuring that someone was available to greet the Speaker at all of her destinations, and then ensuring that she was smoothly processed on the return trip to the Virgin Islands.
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138.

The Member for the Third District then enquired about whether there is any guarantee that the officer would continue to complete the duties required of them six months after being hired. The Clerk responded that the duties would be strategically put in place that they were expected to perform, and it would be expected for them to perform as outlined in the job description. She noted that if the officer performed other tasks, it would not be at the instruction of the Clerk and reiterated that a list of duties would be assigned to the officer.

139.

The Chairman added to the Clerks description, and stated that the duties of the Protocol Officer extended beyond what the Clerk had described as it also encompasses the protocol of the HoA, the Members and the entire Government from a holistic perspective. She added that it incorporated communication, dress, speech, business cards etc. and it entailed creating structure, uniformity and consistency, and ensuring that it was reflected throughout the Government. The Chairman stated that the prominence of the HoA was underplayed in the Virgin Islands and as the legislature, with responsibility for making the laws, it needed to be given more priority.

140.

The Member for the Fifth District stated that although the Clerk was making a bid for the HOA to have a Protocol Officer, one was needed for the entire Government and she noted hat it was almost impossible to write out all of the functions since the duties would vary according to the event and the situations that arose. The Member reiterated that it was a broad range of duties involved in the role of the Protocol Officer. The Member added that it had been observed on numerous occasions when departments hosted functions, most persons were not familiar with how to address the Members, how to address the Governor, seating arrangements and so forth. She stated it all came under protocol, but no one in the service appeared to be familiar with it. The Member agreed that it was observed when Members travelled but not here in the Territory.

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141.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian also made a plea on behalf of the Clerk and stated that it was not just a Protocol Officer for the HoA, but throughout the entire Government. He admitted that during the short time that he had been in the HoA, he was not familiar with the protocol for Members and their spouses. Territorial Member stated that he supported the Chairmans view that if elevation of the Virgin Islands system was necessary, then they needed to take full advantage of every opportunity to learn more about protocol. He then enquired about the proposed salary for the post. The Clerk replied that it probably would fall around Grade 12.

142.

The Chairman added that she supported the Clerks requests as it related to the premises and resources and reiterated the need for additional personnel as the HoA was not adequately staffed. She further added that she hoped that Members would support the Clerks requests as it related to perimeter enhancement security and improvement of the premises as well as the need for a Protocol Officer in the HoA.

143.

The Member for the Fifth District requested a status update on the vehicle purchase referred to in the minutes of the 2011 SFC meetings. The Clerk responded that the vehicle had been purchased and was currently being used to transport the Chairman.

144.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian referred to the reduced staff complement of the HoA offices and asked, should the positions be filled, if the Budget would fund the positions.

145.

The FS stated that if the posts were filled on January 1, there would have been some issues with the funding allocations. He added that they had had some experience with filling posts and that was taken into consideration when the numbers were being calculated. For example, the FS stated that it took the MoF one year to get the macrofiscal unit re-staffed and functional. He added that it took some time to fill one post, so the salaries would not be paid for the entire year and the funds were not reflected for the vacant posts being filled at the beginning of the year.

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146.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the emoluments reflected in the Budget were for one fiscal year. The FS stated that the MoF knew how the system worked and explained that if a post was vacant on January 1, it would not be funded at the time, and that this situation was taken into consideration.

147.

The Member for the Second District referred to the question posed by Territorial Member and the response of the FS, and noted that an analysis of the numbers estimated for 2012 indicated a figure of $427,000 in comparison to $424,000 in 2011. He asked the FS whether the funds in 2011 for the HOA were not based on the full complement of staff of 15 persons. The FS responded that a lot of the posts were not filled. The Member remarked that if the posts were not filled in 2011, it was unlikely that they would be filled in 2012.

148.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian, enquired about the number of vacancies and why the posts had been vacant for two years, stating that he was not sure that he had heard the response previously given. The Clerk responded that the post of Public Relations Officer had never been filled and she had met the post vacant. She added that persons had expressed an interest in the post, but it fell at Grade 9 and probably needed to be upgraded to Grade 12 in order to attract persons. But to her knowledge, it had never been filled.

149.

With reference to the Hansard Editor post, the Clerk explained that the person had transferred to the Court Reporting Unit and another officer who had filled the position was currently on study leave and so the post was now vacant. The Clerk further explained that the substantive holder of the Administrative Officer post was the Ag Deputy Clerk, so the post was now vacant. She added that this was the post she had requested be upgraded to Senior Administrative Officer.

150.

The Member for the Third District enquired how the Ag. Deputy Clerk could be the substantive holder of a post that was below her. The Clerk responded that it was the post that she held before she was appointed to act as Deputy Clerk. The Member clarified the she was actually the Acting Deputy Clerk. The Clerk affirmed this. The
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Member then stated that the Deputy Clerk post was indeed vacant and it also needed to be filled. The Clerk stated that the person who was acting in the Deputy Clerk post was actually the substantive holder of the AO post, who had not yet been confirmed to the post, but was acting. 151. The Member for the Third District enquired if the holder was Ms. Vanterpool and the Clerk confirmed. The Member stated that there were three vacancies thus far. The Clerk added that the post of Library Assistant was temporarily filled, but had not worked out and they lost the person about five months prior in 2011. The Clerk continued with the post of Assistant Information Officer which was vacant since the officer had been transferred to the MNR&L to be the Private Secretary of the Deputy Premier and Minister for Natural Resources and Labour, Hon. Kedrick Pickering. The Clerk added that the person who held the post of Clerical Trainee had resigned to further their studies. This was the same Clerical Trainee post she had requested be upgraded to an Executive Officer. 152. The Member for the Third District noted that there were six vacancies within the HOA based on the Clerks explanation. He further noted that the Public Relations Officer had not yet been filled because the low Grade on the salary scale, and enquired whether the offices had tried to fill the other posts. The Clerk responded that with reference to the AO post, the vacancy had been advertised several times but they were unable to get suitable candidates and, persons who had expressed an interest in the post did not follow through because they did not want a lateral move, but rather a promotion. The Clerk stated that in her opinion, if the post was upgraded to a SAO position then they would attract candidates because there were a number of Administrative Officers in the public service, unlike Senior Administrative Officers. 153. The Member for the Third District suggested that the Clerk interview persons that were interested in a promotion as a result of getting the post instead of persons who were already in a similar post. The Member further suggested that if there were no suitable candidates within the public service, then permission should be sought to
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look for candidates outside of the public service and enquired whether that process had been done. The Clerk responded that she was not sure if the Member was aware of the guidelines for hiring outside of the public service and stated that it was a mammoth task trying to have positions filled outside of the public service. She explained that by the time the position is advertised, applications sent to the HoA and the numerous stages of the hiring process, persons lost interest. The Clerk reiterated that there were quite a few challenges trying to fill the Administrative Officer post. 154. The Member for the Third District noted that the explanation was for one post, and there were five. The Clerk repeated that there had been a Library Assistant, but the person had not worked out and she did not have any control over the Hansard Editor post. She stated that if the Public Relations Officer post was upgraded to a Grade 12, it would attract more persons. The Clerk added that persons had expressed an interest, but because of the low grade they had not followed through. The Member then enquired about the Senior Administrative Officer post and the Clerk explained that it was the Administrative Officer post that the request was made for an upgrade. She further explained that it was the first time that the request had been made for the upgrade and the office had never had a Senior Administrative Office post. The Member noted that evidently the request had been granted and enquired whether the office was simply waiting on final approval. The Clerk replied that it had been approved on one level and she was waiting the final approval once it went through the SFC process. 155. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian expressed a concern with the number of vacancies especially given the number of unemployed persons in the Territory. He made reference to the unemployment register whose figures were still being tabulated, and the recently launched programme at the Eileene L. Parsons Auditorium at the HLSCC. Territorial Member stated that nearly 500 persons were unemployed and while he was uncertain whether some of them had the skills to be qualified for the Grade 9 post, with a salary scale of $33,000-$36,000, could it be said that persons were not interested in working for that type of salary? The Clerk responded that the
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Senior Administrative Officer post was in Grade 12. Territorial Member clarified that he was speaking of the Public Relations Officer post and the request for it to be upgraded to Grade 12 and enquired whether there were unemployed persons in the country declining a job with a salary of $36,000 per annum. The Clerk responded that certain skills were required to be a Public Relations Officer. Territorial Member clarified that the challenge was not in the pay scale, but in the ability to perform the required duties. The Clerk confirmed this. 156. The Member for the Third District noted that while the Clerk was not responsible for the types of answers being given and she was answering truthfully to the questions posed, he was not satisfied with the responses. He stated that it was unacceptable to hear that the office was understaffed and that vacancies needed to be filled, yet the HoA was experiencing difficulties advertising outside of the public service. The Member further stated that it was a Government decision whether they want to advertise outside of the Public Service, but he would have to live with it. 157. The Minister for Health and Social Development advised that the former administration, in their quest for prudent financial management, made a decision to approve all advertisement and employment. He stated that in order to have a decision made so that employment could take place, it took about six months to a year for things to move. The Member for the Third District informed that that was not true and enquired where the Minister for Health and Social Development had received the explanation. The Minister replied that the current administration had tried to unravel the policy and they were still trying. 158. The Member for the Third District said there was nothing to unravel and that a simple Cabinet decision had been made that all external hiring required the approval of Cabinet. The Member stated all that was needed was a cabinet paper and noted that if an officer took six months to prepare a cabinet paper, the former administration could not be held responsible for the hold up. He added that when the cabinet paper came, most times it had been approved.
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159.

The Member for the Third District then commented that the Minister for Health and Social Development should be wary and stated that some public officers were very clever and if they did not like something, they would do all they could to ensure that the policy did not work. For example, he said, if they wished to simply be able to call someone in for an interview hire them and could no longer do so, they will make sure that any change in that process did not work. The Member stated that it was up to the Government to continue the practice of having Cabinet first approve any external hiring. The Minister sought clarification on the definition of external hiring. The Member for the Third District explained that it was defined as persons outside of the Civil Service, from within the Virgin Islands because if the jobs could be filled by persons within the service who wanted to transfer, or unemployed persons who were at home but still being paid.

160.

The Minister for Health and Social Development clarified that the term referred to persons outside of the Civil Service, but residing in the Territory. The Member answered affirmatively. The Minister sought clarification that the Member meant Virgin Islanders.

161.

The Member for the Third District replied yes and stated they were to be given first preference. The Member stated that if the Clerk made a petition to the Human Resources Manager in her Ministry and explained that she wanted a vacancy advertised externally, a Cabinet paper had to be prepared and given it to the Governor who took it to Cabinet, and the Cabinet would decide. The Member for the Third District further stated that he was certain that if the request was made in January, the Cabinet paper would not be seen before the Members until March, with an explanation that they did not want to send forth a paper with only one name. He stated that the persons who were affected most by the short staff were the ones in the HoA offices and not the Ministries. The Member encouraged the Clerk to advocate for the building to be properly staffed.

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162.

The Member for the Third District enquired whether the HoA was under the portfolio of the Premiers Office or the MOF. The Clerk replied that she was not sure and she reported to the PSDGO. She stated that a few of the positions were advertised externally before the hiring policy had been implemented through the Cabinet Office, and the respondents were not qualified by way of status.

163.

The Clerk stated that she had requested a photocopier at previous SFC Meetings and had been declined. She appealed to the Members and stated that the HoA was in dire need of a heavy duty photocopier with a built in scanner, printer and fax. The Clerk stressed that the HoA faced numerous challenges outside of human resources and other issues. She shared that they could not readily access the network or the internet. The Clerk added that to advertise externally with the new policy, she had to write to the PSDGO, the request then had to be forwarded to the Human Resources Manager, then to the Department of Human Resources. She explained that the HoA did not write Cabinet Papers so they were at the mercies of the DHR to write on their behalf. The Clerk stated that those were the challenges referred to as it related to the HoA applying and requesting for a Cabinet Paper to be written. She added that the process took months.

164.

The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that something was wrong with that process and stated that the former Minister could probably shed some light on what happened. The Minister further stated that when the Government was negotiating the constitutional advancement, they thought they were creating a more independent HoA and thereby given the Speaker and the Clerk the autonomy to get things done in the country. He stated that, as the Minister for Health and Social Development, if there was a Cabinet Paper, the file was sent to him and he read it, revised it as necessary, signed off on it and then sent it to the Cabinet Secretary indicating that the paper was ready for Cabinets consideration. The Minister stated that he was the one who actually sent the paper. He added that the Clerk and the staff of the HoA were under the supervision of the Speaker and that was how it should have been and the Governor should be able to say the same thing. The Minister noted
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that he was not aware of the Governors actions when he was not in the HoA, but stated that if there was a Cabinet Paper, the Speaker was supposed to sign off on the paper and have it sent to Cabinet for consideration. The Minister added that when the paper arrived at Cabinet, the Premier who would carry the paper forward for discussion since he was the leader of Government business in the HoA, and on behalf of the Speaker the Premier would present the paper. 165. The Member for the Second District noted that a similar process would be followed if the Court was presenting a paper, which would go through the Governor, and the legislation would go through the Premier. The Minister stated that that was the correct procedure. The Member for the Third District clarified that he stated that only Members of Cabinet, except for the Governor who was the Chairman, could bring papers to Cabinet and noted that the Minister for Health and Social Development had said that only the Premier could argue the paper for the Speaker. The Minister agreed. The Member further stated that he agreed that the Speaker would forward the paper to the Premier who would argue the paper before Cabinet. 166. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian expressed his gratitude for the minutes of the 2011 SFC meetings and stated that he had examined the report under the HoA and noted that some of the items requested by the Clerk, and had been previously requested in 2011, including the fire escape and the elevator. He stated that she had been advised that while an elevator was not possible, the fire escape would have been installed by February 2011. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the landlord had promised to have an elevator installed and Territorial Member referred to page 32 of 488. Territorial Member then enquired whether the Clerk had an estimate of the heavy duty photocopier that was being requested. The Clerk responded that there were no accurate figures on hand, but those could be easily obtained. Territorial Member requested that figures be obtained and submitted for consideration.

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167.

The Minister for Health and Social Development noted that every Government Department had a photocopier that could perform a range of high technical services. The Minister stated that he believed it was time for the Government to return to the days of having a central pool for photocopying. He stated that every office purchased a photocopier for over $16,000, and that was on the cheaper end of the range, and queried whether the Government could not invest approximately $100,000 in photocopying equipment and have it centrally located so that the offices could have their major copying done at that location. The Minister noted that most of the minor copying could be done by a personal printer. He stated that there was a need to start looking at the broader picture. The Clerk said she could have a copier placed

downstairs to deal with the needs of the Members since the copier that was located downstairs was not functional and needed to be boarded. 168. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian stated that he could agree with the Minister for Health and Social Development, however, the HoA was in a separate building, with multiple floors and generated a lot of materials. He added that the copy pool was practical for the Central Administration Building and a Ministry with a lot of floor space. The Territorial Member further stated that given that the HoA is located in a separate building, there was the need for a dedicated, proper, photocopier and perhaps they needed to explore where the most reasonable one could be sourced. 169. The Member for the Eighth District stated that, if a multi functional copier was obtained for upstairs of the HoA building, as referred to by the Clerk that would be fine. The Member further stated that if Members got a reasonably priced multifunctional printer, that could perform some of the scanning, and copying functions, that would be a workable solution. 170. The Member for the Third District referred to the issue of the HoA reporting to the DGO and highlighted that the Constitution stated that one of the Governors special responsibilities was the administration of the Courts, however, they do not include the HoA. The Member stated that the Members, through the Premier, could determine to
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whom the HoA reported, as far as the Ministerial system was concerned.

The

Member further stated that the Premiers Office could be the conduit for all of the administrative functions of the HoA. 171. The Minister for Health and Social Development noted that a disconnection was stated when the new constitution provided for a new autonomy, however to date it has not been implemented. The Member for the Third District stated that until that separation occurred, the Members needed to do continue to agitate for the Premier Office to be the conduit. The Member enquired whether the Cabinet Office reported to the Premiers Office. The Premier then responded that it was subject to the Cabinet Secretary who reports to the Governor and the Premier. 172. The Member for the Third District said that he was not referring to that, but rather the Cabinet Office and enquired if those officers reported to the Premiers Office. The Premier affirmed that they did. The Member for the Third District enquired why the HoA could not follow similar guidelines. 173. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that that was the argument when the new Constitution was drafted. 174. The Member for the Third District stated that it was a change that the Members could handle and the premier stated that he would move the agenda forward. The Member for the Third District added that instead of having the Clerk report to the PSDGO and without getting any results, have her report to the PSPO in order to get results. 175. The Member for the Second District advised that the last time the matter was discussed in detail, it was agreed that the Cabinet would examine other regional Parliaments who had a similar system to understand how they functioned, get a recommendation and make the final adjustments accordingly. 176. The Minister for Health and Social Development reminded the Members that the Virgin Islands have a more advanced Constitution as compared to other Parliaments.
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The Member for the Third District stated that those independent countries parliament would report to the Head of State. 177. The Member for the Second District enquired whether it was not just a symbolic position. 178. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that in the Virgin Islands HoA, the Speaker was the person in control of the HoA. He added that the Governor provided administrative support through staffing, but when the new Constitution came into effect, there was the view that there had to be a natural weaning off from the civil service administration. He stated that once there was a Speaker, that person was in charge and if there was no Speaker, the Clerk was in charge. 179. The Member for the Second District added that the HoA should have its own separate budget and should not have to go through central government procedures, down to pension. The Member reiterated that all of these issues had been discussed. Further reference was made to other Parliaments with a view that would have made it on independent body so that democracy could function. 180. There being no further questions the Chairman thanked the Clerk who was then excused from the proceedings.

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HEAD 705 Present:

CABINET OFFICE

Ms. Sandra Ward Ms. Merlene Harrigan

Cabinet Secretary, Cabinet Office (CS) Deputy Cabinet Secretary, Cabinet Office (DCS)

181.

The Chairman welcomed the Cabinet Secretary (CS) and Deputy Cabinet Secretary (DCS) to the meeting. She asked that they state their names and positions for the record prior to proceeding with their presentation to which they complied.

182.

The CS stated that based on the allocations given, in light of the cuts across the board, they were fine with the draft estimates since the office could make re-allocations within the year. Subhead 65400 Office Improvement and Reallocation

183.

The CS expressed concern about the funds in this Subhead, based on the relocation of the current Office, and noted that the new Office was a priority for the current administration. She stated that, originally, it was $350,000.00, but it had been reduced to $283,500.00 and noted that it would be the only challenge foreseen by the Office and reiterated that it would be the only major concern.

184.

Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired about the types of challenges the CS expected to have in the reduction from $350,000 to $283,500.00, and if she had the challenges, in what areas were they anticipated.

185.

The CS explained that in terms of the office relocation, it was a project that was onstream and should have started since 2007/2008. She further explained, that to her understanding, especially since it was her fourth day on the job, there were architectural drawings which were three years old and there will be a change in costs and with the new administration, there needed to be some input from the Premier in
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relation to the design, so there would be some increased costs in the architectural designs and how the office would be outfitted. 186. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian then queried the location of the new offices. The CS responded that it would be in the former location of the Attorney Generals Chambers, right outside the elevation on the second floor of the Central Administration Building. 187. The Member for the Eighth District enquired about the role of the Cabinet Secretary and the functions of the office since there was a complement of 11 staff. The CS

explained that there was a staff complement of 11 and three of the staff were based in the Gazette Unit. She further explained that the Gazette Unit was formerly under the Deputy Governors Office and was transferred to the Cabinet Office in February 2011, so there were eight staff members in the Cabinet Office Secretariat and listed the positions of the members according to the draft budget estimates. The CS stated that the other staff were stationed at the Gazette Unit which actually only had one person in the positions as stated in the draft estimates. She further stated that the existing posts were currently vacant and attempts had been made to fill them, but they were still pending at the Public Service Commission. 188. The Chairman sought clarification on whether the staff complement was 11 inclusive of the CS. The CS confirmed that it was. The Chairman noted that the Draft Estimates stated 12. The CS stated that there was an error on the Draft Estimates and confirmed that the complement was actually 11 inclusive of the CS. 189. The Member for the Third District noted that the CS stated that the vacancies were pending with the PSC and sought clarification on the positions. The CS stated that the positions were Communications Officer II and Clerical Officer III. The Member then enquired whether the positions were devolved. The CS stated that they were not, and explained that one post was not devolved and it was the Communications Officer post which was a Grade 12 and the other post was a Grade 4. The Member then queried whether Communications Officers came from GIS and whether it was not a similar
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post as Information Officers in other ministries. The CS replied that the Communication Officer in this particular post was not the traditional information officer post. She explained that this officer would manage the editing of the Gazette and the website, and really serve the Gazette Unit and not writing press releases. 190. The Member for the Third District reminded the CS that The Member for the Eighth District had queried the role of the Cabinet Secretary and the Cabinet Office. He added that he was not sure whether the Member was satisfied with the answer given. The Member for the Third District stated that he had not yet heard a response regarding the question posed. The CS indicated that she had replied to the question, but perhaps it had not been heard by the Member. She stated that the Cabinet Office is a new office which was approximately five years old and was created with the passage of the 2007 Constitution. She added that it served as the Secretariat for the Cabinet, the National Security Council and most recently, the Virgin Islands Cadet Corps. The Member sought clarification that the office did serve as the Secretariat for the Virgin Islands Cadet Corps and stated that the Cabinet Office was supposed to serve the Cabinet and was a constitutional role. The CS affirmed that it was and the role was stipulated in its service charter. She added that she had asked the Governor about the role and was informed that it was a decision taken at the National Security Council. The Member responded that the National Security Council did not take decisions, but advised the Governor on security matters and sought clarification that the Council took a decision to direct the Cabinet Office. 191. The Member for the Fifth District noted that the CS had only been in the post for four days, and enquired about the merger of the Cabinet Office being the Secretariat for the Virgin Islands Cadet Corps and whether there was any information on how long the merger had taken place. The CS responded that based on her understanding of the information provided, the Cabinet Office functioned as the secretariat for the Cadet Corps and basically facilitated the meetings of the Board. She added that it was not that the office had a direct impact on how the Cadet Corps functioned or met or that type of thing. The CS stated that the Board which had been put in place, and to her
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understanding, was not functioning, was supposed to manage how the Cadet Corps functioned and the Cabinet Office was to assist with facilitating the Board meetings and they carried out whatever decision the Board comes up with. 192. The Member for the Fifth District sought clarification on the assistance role of the Cabinet Office in facilitating the implementation of directives issued to the Cadet Corps by the Board. The CS affirmed that that was her understanding after reading it in the Service Charter and meeting with the Governor. She added that to date, the Cabinet Office had had no active role with the Cadet Corps and since the Board was established it had not functioned. The CS clarified that the Cadet Corps as a group had been functioning but the Board was not. She stated that the Cabinet Office has not had an active role within the group. The Member then enquired about the length of time this had been happening. The CS replied that to her knowledge it was about three years ago. 193. The Minister for Health and Social Development sought clarification that this had been happening for three years. The CS stated that in writing it seems to have been in place for three years, but there was no record in the Cabinet Office to indicate that it had assisted or facilitated any of the meetings. The Member for the Fifth District then enquired about the number of staff in place and ready to move into the new location when it was ready. The CS explained that eight persons were in place in the Cabinet Office at the RFG Plaza and would be ready to move into the new location once it was ready. The other three were located at the Gazette Unit in the Passport Office at the Central Administration Building. 194. The Member for the Fifth District then expressed a concern about the security of Cabinet business as it related to the merger of the two sections, as it related to office dynamics and the proposed changes. The CS enquired whether the concern was related to the current division of the two Offices with the Cabinet Office in one location and the Gazette Unit in another. The Member for the Fifth District responded that the concern was related to the housing of all of the staff in one office and queried
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whether they would have been sharing the same office resources such as photocopiers and reading the same documents etc. She reiterated that she was very concerned about the situation. The CS explained that the staff of the Gazette Unit had a distinct function and they would not be involved in the daily operations of the Cabinet Office. She further explained that, even within the Cabinet Office, there were specific duties assigned to specific staff. 195. The Member for the Third District supported the concern raised by The Member for the Fifth District, and enquired whether it was possible that a staff member from the Cabinet Office could be working on a document and could request assistance from the clerk of the Gazette Unit to photocopy a document. The CS responded that in the four days that she had been with the Cabinet Office that she had not observed the possibility of that type of scenario and reminded the Members that the Gazette Unit was currently housed in another location. She added that, with the exception of the files, all of the information received was sent electronically by the Ministries and stated that she did not foresee that particular situation occurring. The CS stated that currently she was assessing the existing procedures and trying to develop procedures on the best way forward. 196. The Member for the Third District repeated that the CS stated that all information came electronically from the Ministers and he believed that that information should have been the cabinet papers which are sent from the Ministers electronically. The Minister for Health and Social Development clarified that the CS had stated from the Ministries. The Member affirmed that he was aware of what had been stated, but the procedure was that the Ministers were the persons who dealt with the Cabinet papers which were sent to Cabinet Office; the Minister signed off on the Cabinet Paper and it was supposed to have been sent electronically to the Cabinet. 197. The Chairman clarified that the CS has stated that most of the information came electronically from the Ministries, except for the files which were physically delivered to the Cabinet Office.
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198.

The Member for the Second District enquired whether all Cabinet decisions were circulated to all Ministries. The CS responded that all Cabinet decisions were returned to the Permanent Secretary of the relevant Ministries in the form of an extract. She added that the files were minuted back with the exception of the expedited extracts, which were e-mailed either on the same day or on the next day of the Cabinet meeting. The CS stated that these were e-mailed to the Minister and copied to the FS and the respective PS. The Member enquired whether the PSMCW would know of a decision taken in the Ministry of Health and Social Development. The CS sought clarification on whether the Member was asking if a PS in one Ministry would be informed of a decision taken in another Ministry. The Member affirmed that that was his query. The CS stated that that was not the procedure so it would not happen at that particular point.

199.

The Member for the Third District reminded the CS that she had stated that the decision went to the FS. The CS replied that it was the case if the expedited extract had financial implications.

200.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian made reference to the staff of the Gazette Unit and requested the CS to repeat the information shared about them. The CS stated that the Gazette Unit had three positions and there was only one person currently on staff since the other two posts of Communications Officer II and the Clerical Officer III were vacant. The CS repeated that recommendations had been made, but the applications were pending with the PSC. Territorial Member enquired why the positions were still vacant. The CS replied that they were still vacant because no word had yet been received from the PSC.

201.

The Member for the Second District enquired about the type of communication that occurred when a decision that was taken required inter-ministerial collaboration. He then stated that there seemed to be a disconnect with the way Government functioned. The CS responded that, during the draft stage, there was a section that stated cross Ministry consultation/cross Ministry coordination, so every Ministry was required to
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seek the input from the relevant Ministry that was believed to have an impact on a decision that was being sought. She added that, even before the papers came to Cabinet, they would have had the input of another Ministry. The CS stated that, once the decision was taken, it was left to the respective lead PS to follow up with the other Ministries to seek their input on how a decision was to be implemented. 202. The Member for the First District stated that to the untrained ear, the process described by the CS should work perfectly, however to the trained ear, the process does not work as efficiently as it appeared. He added that what he had observed that certain technocrats apparently used this process to slow down the pace of work to be accomplished. The Member further stated that the process outlined by the CS were accurate in theory. The draft Cabinet Paper was sent for input as is deemed necessary to the ministries that needed to respond. He added that he believed, and was not sure if it was in the Cabinet Offices service charter, but that it was stated that discussions were to be had with the subject Minister about the draft cabinet paper and the PS in agreement with the Minister of the day, would decide which areas of Government the draft Cabinet Paper would need to be sent for comment. The Member noted that quite a number of projects in Government were seemingly held up for a long time, because at times the draft cabinet paper went in areas where it did not need to go. 203. The Member for the First District stated that the practice of Permanent Secretary discussing the draft Cabinet Paper with the subject Minister so that there would be an agreement on the relevant departments and units that should be sought for input needed to be enforced or there will always be cases where important documents will continue to take a long period of time through the present practice before anything which happened in some cases, not all. The Member stated that the process needed to be outlined in the Service Charter and also when the CS met with the Permanent Secretaries so that the agenda of the Government of the day could move more expeditiously.

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204.

The Member for the Second District stated that he asked the question because, from his experience, he had observed a disconnect that could be costly to the Government and was very inefficient to the process that was now being taken, and he could see also a lot of time was being lost in the lack of the decisions on behalf of the people not being taken. He then requested that the CS enlighten the Committee more about the role of CS in making sure, he noted that she had explained what happened between Permanent Secretaries, but he was interested in hearing about the role of the CS in ensuring the processes were monitored so that the decisions taken could be implemented.

205.

The CS stated that she was getting to that aspect in her presentation during her response to The Member for the Eighth District but other Members had asked questions. She stated that one of the key roles of the Cabinet Office and the CS was to monitor the implementation of Cabinet decisions. She stated that perhaps the disconnect that The Member for the Second District referred to could be closed with the CSs interaction with the relevant PS to ensure that Cabinet decisions were indeed implemented. She reiterated that, in carrying out her assessments during the first week, they sought to look at ways in which they could ensure that Cabinet decisions were indeed implemented. She confirmed that there was a monitoring role.

206.

The Member for the Second District then enquired about the involvement of the Premier, the leader of Government business, and the extent to which he was involved in the operations of the Cabinet Office and being informed about how the decisions were implemented. The CS stated that the Premier was very involved and that, as head, he would know what his other Ministers were bringing forward. The CS stated that the Premier was in the Cabinet Steering Group where the agenda was formed.

207.

The Member for the Second District stated that his concern was when the papers left Cabinet and the technical officers were given the responsibility to implement programmes on behalf of the Government, programmes that were constantly seen to have cost and time. He stated that time is money and referred to the discussions of the
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high cost of things and cutting back 7% of the Governments expenditure. The Member remarked that, if there were early discussions and other views available maybe the Government could have cut back on 15%. 208. The Member for the Second District stated that the time consuming processes being implemented needed to be assessed and proposed that the Premier analyse them. The Premier responded that the Cabinet Office came with the new Constitution and the entire arrangement came into being during the last administration and it had been functioning, and as with all processes it had to be reviewed from time to time. He added that the present CS was new in the position and was in the process of assessing the Cabinet Office. The Premier stated that he was confident that the Members would have the relevant discussions following the review. The CS added that, in response to the question posed by The Member for the Second District on the monitoring role, the CS was also to provide quarterly reports on the implementation of policy decisions and updates to Cabinet. The Member confirmed that it was quarterly and the CS affirmed this. 209. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian referred to the 2011 report of the SFC, page 36, of 488, item 92 and 93 and noted the discussions between the CS, the AgPSPO and the current PSPO involving the transfer and notthe-transfer of the Gazette Unit and enquired whether that was the reason for the issues with the Gazette Unit. He enquired whether it stemmed from the fact that the matter appeared to still be unresolved in 2011. The CS stated that she wanted to believe that it had been resolved because the Gazette Unit had indeed been transferred in February and the positions filled. Territorial Member noted that there was a staff complement of three persons. The CS replied that the office had been transferred with one person. Territorial Member queried whether two persons were still needed. The CS affirmed this and repeated that the recommendations were currently pending with the PSC.

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Subhead 62620 - Computerization Expenses 210. The Member for the Eighth District requested the CS to explain what types of computerization expenses were being referred to. The CS responded that they had currently started the process of documenting/scanning Executive Council decisions. She stated that they were at 1965 and hit was her understanding that the computerization expenses were linked to that project. She repeated that they were scanning decisions made by Executive Council from earlier discussions in the 1960s and that was the link for that expense. 211. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian clarified that the Subhead was to cover the cost of the digitizing. The CS confirmed this and explained that they were currently scanning the Executive Council decisions dating back to the 1960s. The FS confirmed that the funds were allocated for this process. The CS stated that they were starting with the 1960s and coming up to present. 212. The Member for the Fifth District enquired about the head of the Gazette Unit. The CS responded that currently it was the Cabinet Secretary since the Gazette Unit was transferred to the Cabinet Office in February 2011. 213. The Member for the Eighth District stated that his question was a broader question but he would wait until DoIT came to the meeting. He enquired whether the Cabinet Office was sourcing the digitisation equipment independently or through DoIT. The CS confirmed that all of the digitisation and computerisation equipment was being sourced through DoIT. 214. The Chairman thanked the CS and the DCS for attending the meeting, and wished the new CS much success in her new role.

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HEAD 710 Present:

OFFICE OF THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS

Ms. Elizabeth Hinds

Director of Public Prosecutions, Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP)

Mrs. Gale Potter

Senior Administrative Officer, Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (SAO)

215.

The Chairman welcomed the DPP and the SAO to the proceedings and asked that they state their names and positions for the records to which they complied. She then invited the DPP to deliver her presentation.

216.

The DPP stated that night court was a burning issue for the office. She added that the last time she came before the committee the night court had been approved and payment for prosecutors was passed, but subsequently all that the prosecutors received was retroactive payments. She added that within the budget no provisions were made for the subsequent payments for the year. The DPP stated that it would cost $18,000 to pay them for the rest of 2012.

217.

The DPP further stated that if it was not possible to receive the $18,000 they were prepared to have it taken from Subhead 61420 Alterations and Maintenance. She explained that the Subhead contained $22,700.00, and they needed $18,000 since the attorneys would not willingly go to night court. The DPP further explained that the Magistrate and staff were being paid and the prosecutors were not. She stated that they had not been paid and it was a new initiative request. The DPP added that they had received their retroactive payments, but it could stir up potential problems for the department later in the year. The DPP stated that the SAO had prepared the new initiative request and reiterated that if the $18,000 was not available, that it should be taken from Subhead 61420.
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218.

The Member for the Third District enquired whether the ODPP was under the DGO. She confirmed that it was. The Member then asked for the PSDGO and stated that he should have been present with the DPP at the proceedings and enquired whether the Governor was responsible for the administration of the office. The DPP highlighted that for the 2011 meeting she had also been alone. The Member then enquired whether the DPP had the Cabinet Extract on the decision that had been taken regarding the payment of the officers. The DPP affirmed that she had it on hand. The Member then enquired about the conditions for the payment. The DPP read the document which stated Cabinet (a) approve the payment of a night court allowance of counsels in the office of DPP in the amount of $1300 monthly for four night court sittings per month or $15,600 per annum, which is equivalent to $325.00 for each sitting, and (b) approved retroactive payments of compensation as per the schedule of payments for the period 22 February 2010 until the period 10 May 2011 in the amounts of $6,825.00 for the period 22 February 2010 to 7 December 2010 and $4,875.00 for the period 18 January 2011to 10 May 2011.

219.

The Member for the Third District enquired whether the extract addressed the situation in her opinion. The DPP responded that it had not. The Member stated that the decision had been based on the information that had come before Cabinet; in other words, she had requested for the situation to be addressed for up to 2011 and it had been addressed then, but not beyond to include the period stated which 2012 was. The DPP stated that it was always understood that once the prosecutors received the retroactive payments they would expect to be paid subsequently.

220.

The Member for the Third District stated that discussions which were held in Cabinet on the issue and the persons who were there before Cabinet, or however the information was disseminated, should have made it clear whatever the decision was, whether it was to continue, or whether it was a one-time situation. He assured that once Cabinet was made aware that other officers were being paid overtime, it was considered to be unjust for the staff of the ODPP not to have been paid and the money was outstanding so it was cleared up. The Member for the Third District stated that in
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going forward, he was not certain that the matter was made clear by the DPP to the Members of Cabinet and considered it to be a new issue. The Member stated that the matter was now on the table as to how it needed to be handled. Subhead 61420 Alterations and Maintenance 221. The Member for the Second District enquired how the FS planned to clear the debt and noted that some provisions had to be made for the Members to approve. 222. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian noted the suggestion made to reallocate some of the monies in Subhead 61420 Alterations and Maintenance which covered the cost of alterations to the bath room facilities and enquired whether the DPP was implying that the bathrooms were not urgent and could be sacrificed to pay the retroactive salaries. 223. The DPP responded that the bathrooms were basically finished that the little that remained, the office could forego. She added that it was usable and there was a need to be financially prudent. The FS stated that there were no new monies and he would take the recommendation suggested by the DPP and stated that the DPP could not return to ask for any additional funds for that Subhead. 224. The FS indicated that he would follow through on the recommendation that was made regarding where the funds should be taken from, but it must be borne in mind that she could not return to make a request for any monies to that particular subhead. He then enquired whether the DPP was prepared to forego the outstanding works to be done to the bathrooms and whether the office could live with the situation as it was. The DPP responded that they were. 225. The Member for the Third District noted the situation was more than just finding monies for payment and that it seemed as though it was being made into a policy that the public prosecutors work overtime. The Member stated that Cabinet had already made a decision and someone had taken the decision not to pay the Prosecutors and

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Cabinet had thought it to be unjust and had them paid. The Member further stated that what was currently being done going forward, was creating a policy. 226. The Member for the Second District stated that it could not go forward or there would have been no more night court because there was no provision to pay them in the future. 227. The Member for the Third District stated that that was not so and the Prosecutors had a way of operating so that they could be paid. The Chairman enquired about the hours of night court. The DPP responded that it was from 4:30 p.m. to 7:30 p.m. 228. The Chairman stated that based on what the Members for the Second and Third District had said, a decision had to be made going forward in regards to the Prosecutors dealing with matters after hours, and not having the DPP return each year with a request to make an adjustment. 229. The Member for the Fifth District stated that it was her understanding that the night court had been established to clear back logs from the court system and enquired whether the backlog still existed. The DPP responded that she was not familiar with the circumstances surrounding the establishment of the night court since she came and met it there, but she thought she recalled hearing perhaps The Member for the Third District speaking about the backlog, but she could not remember who made the statement. 230. The Member for the Third District stated that he did not say that, but rather that night court had been developed to deal with trivial matters that were not normally held during the day and would clog up the Courts system. The DPP responded that she was not aware of the establishment of the system but it was functioning. She added that many traffic cases were completed in the night court and the mere fact that a payment was made encourages the prosecutors to go. The DPP said it is a case where they have to work all day and then attend night court and see their colleagues being paid while

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the prosecutors were not being paid, especially in light of the fact that the Magistrate and the staff of the Magistrates Court were paid. 231. The Member for the Third District maintained that the night court was established to deal with matters that would ordinarily unnecessarily take persons claimants and defendants from their duties during the day to go to regular court. For example, the Member stated if a tenant did not pay their rent and the landlord wanted to take them to court, or the landlord would not fix something in the apartment and a tenant wanted to take the landlord to court, without necessarily using the services of a lawyer, or to contest a traffic ticket, that was when a person went to night court. But now he was hearing that public prosecutors were going to night court and it was a full blown court. 232. The Minister for Health and Social Development informed that it was from further back and when the NDP was in administration night courts were ongoing. He explained that it started a few years prior and the then Attorney General recommended the night court because when the courts were overloaded and a lot of traffic violations were taking up the courts time. The Minister further stated that they went to a second magistrate and then to a night court. 233. The DPP responded that in addition to the prosecutors taking on the cases as required by law, the police also phased out dealing with prosecution as part of their duties which took the prosecutors into the court room. She noted that the phasing out was done across all of the British Overseas Territories. The Minister for Health and Social Development added that what compounded the problem was that the police were going up against trained lawyers and losing and the Government was paying all of the bills. 234. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated what the future held in terms of the volume of cases handled would warrant night court being regularly established. He said that since the matter was already on table, he was not comfortable with having funds moved around to cover it. Territorial Member stated that night court was
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costing the Territory something and reiterated that the reality was that funds had to be reallocated to cover the payment of fees. 235. The Member for the Third District stated that he had no problem with people who worked being paid and if the public prosecutors went to night court they should be paid. The Member enquired since there was such a heavy load of court case, whether another court house should be established to cater to people during the day. He highlighted the fact that night court was a convenience and stated that if the cases did exist and used the resources of a regular court, then establish another court. The Member for the Third District stated that in his opinion, it was disenfranchising the Territorys citizens. 236. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that all of the Members might agree that a new court was needed. Territorial Member added a new hall of justice was definitely needed and supported the Members view, and the establishment of such a system would probably occur in the future. Territorial Member stated that the current reality was that in 2012 there were night courts which needed to be paid for. He added that in the next four to five years there may be halls of justice that would take care of all the court cases so there would be no need for a night court but, in the interim, night cases needed to be funded until a better solution was implemented. 237. The Premier supported the Territorial Members comments and stated that provisions would be made. He added that he also supported The Member for the Third Districts assessments that the Members needed to examine the need for another court based on the number of cases presented. The Premier then asked the DPP to provide an opinion on the situation and the possible need for a second court. The DPP responded that the traffic matters were increasing thanks to a particular police officer. The DPP added that traffic tickets were also a revenue generator but stated that she would not know the details since the ODPP did not keep records about the fines. She recalled her experience as a Magistrate in Guyana and stated that revenue from traffic violations increased significantly and if one examined the traffic court as a revenue
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earner, as long as the police brought in persons, there would always be a flow of cash. The DPP admitted that while she had not examined the records, she suggested that the committee examine them to see how much revenue would be generated in order to gauge whether it would have been worth it to maintain the night court. The DPP stated that she would hope that the records would support maintaining the night court, but if they did not. 238. The Premier enquired about the percentage of violations that came before the courts. The DPP responded there was a record of completed cases per month because those encouraged prosecutors to complete cases and not request adjournments if they knew that their names would be filed with the number of completed cases. The DPP added that, for example, in January 2011, the majority were traffic cases. She stated that some of the prosecutors would have completed the case but not submit their files. She stated that according to her files in 2011, there were 14 cases completed in January; 16 February; 8 in March; 9 in April; 27 in May; 7 in June and 34 in July. The DPP added that it was also based on whether someone came and pleaded, which was very rapid, but if the Magistrate had to try cases, there would be fewer cases finishing in that month. 239. The Premier then enquired about the number of persons that would have paid. The DPP responded that the information was there, but ODPP did not keep those records. She added that it was noted on the case jacket, but they did not enter it into their records. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked, based on her statistics about the total revenue generated. The DPP reiterated that she did not have the total revenue costs. The Minister referred to her earlier statement about the night court being a revenue earner and stated that he wanted more information on the revenue that was being generated. The DPP agreed that she had made the comment but that the Magistrates Court would have a better idea of the fees generated. The Minister asked whether it could be a few million dollars. The DPP stated that she really did not pay attention to the amount of the fines.

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240.

The Member for the Third District enquired how they could invite someone to court and assign them to night courts and enquired about the legal fees as compared to during the day, and enquired whether the lawyer knew he was working overtime. The DPP stated that she would not know that. The Member stated that it needed to be understood because people would be given an additional expense of night courts. He stated that it did not sound fair and he thought night court was for ticketed traffic offences and not a case where the police charged someone because then a lawyer would be needed.

241.

The Member for the Third District stated that night court seemed as though it was being used as a regular court. He suggested that they rent space somewhere, perhaps in Pockwood Pond and use that as the venue for the court similar to what was done at Prospect Reef. The Member enquired where the night courts were held and the DPP responded that it was at the Magistrates Court.

242.

Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian stated he did not judge persons and asked about average fine or the range of fines from the largest to the smallest. The DPP responded that the ODPP did not really deal with fines, but it could be $200 or $250 depending on what it was. The Territorial Member explained that he was referring to traffic fines and the range.

243.

The Member for the First District suggested that the question would be better posed to the Magistrates Court. The DPP agreed and stated that that office had better records of the revenue and the information that would be of greater assistance to the committee. She stated that the ODPP just presented the cases.

244.

The Member for the Third District enquired about the case assignments. The DPP responded that they did not and that the Magistrates Court issued a list and the ODPP assigned their attorneys on a monthly schedule of who would attend the night court. The Member for the Third District stated that when the Magistrates Court appeared before the body, then they need to explain the justification for night court. He added that all the Members need to do was to find a way to pay the public prosecutors for
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facilitating the work done. The Minister for Health and Social Development agreed with The Member for the Third District. The Member added that he had already fought for the case for the ODPP and wanted to avoid a repeat of the situation unnecessarily. The DPP expressed her thanks. 245. The Member for the First District commended the DPP for the fine work being done by her department despite the challenges. 246. The DPP indicated that there was another issue of concern and stated that due to the increase in the volume of work received by the ODPP, for example in 2011 there were 620 new cases that went before the courts and were filed through the ODPP. She listed the number of cases as follows: January - 18, February - 20, March - 49, April - 49, May - 46, June - 77, July - 40, August - 66, September - 72, October - 66, November - 48 and December - 69. 247. Accompanying this, the DPP presented a list of the attorneys and the number of cases they had completed in the Magistrates Court in any given month. She stated that for example, in January, a total of 30 cases were completed. The DPP also listed the same for February with 35 cases being completed and added that in certain cases a prosecutor may complete up to 25 cases in the Magistrates Court in one month. The DPP noted that in one instance there was a case where a very junior prosecutor started with one case but increased eventually to 28. She ended her presentation by outlining that the workload was tremendous. 248. The Member for the Third District enquired about the number of cases won. The DPP responded that the office won more cases than it lost. The DPP also presented the record of the assizes cases. 249. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the DPP had already made her case and won it. The DPP explained that the presentation of the caseload was simply to establish the grounds for the second part of their request. The DPP stated that they had approached DeHR requesting additional staff where were an
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additional senior crown counsel and two crown counsels. She added that there were a number of returning BVIslanders and the ODPP wished to have some of them to enter the chambers. 250. The DPP further stated that with the current workload, the staff was quite inexperienced and not quite seasoned, but they were learning quite well. She added there was a need in comparison to how the office was previously staffed with a seasoned Principal Crown Counsel and an experienced crown counsel; the current Principal Crown Counsel was trying her best, but was not as experienced as the former Principal Crown Counsel, so to support that, there was the need for additional persons to work along in the office. The DPP explained that because there was a less experienced staff, there was a need for more persons to double up on the work, and it was in that vein she was requesting a senior crown counsel and two crown counsels so that they could share the workload. 251. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that more staff was needed and the DPP confirmed that it was, admitting that it was some additional funding. She stated that the ODPP had estimated that an additional $168,000 per annum would be needed to acquire the additional staff. 252. The Member for the Third District enquired about the number of lawyers stationed in the ODPP. The DPP replied that there were nine. The Member enquired where they had been sourced. The DPP stated that she was the only expatriate and the office was staffed with BVIslanders with the exception of Mr. Valston Graham who she had thought was a Belonger, but had been advised by the SAO that he still had his countrys passport. The DPP stated that Mr. Graham had been in the island for a number of years as a police officer and had come through the ranks. She added that in her opinion, he related as though he was a Belonger. 253. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the ODPP could find the lawyers in the Territory. The DPP responded that they were returning nationals and noted that they had already identified someone for the Senior Crown Counsel position. The DPP
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explained that if the positions were granted, they already had the Senior Crown Counsel, Ms. Jude Hanley. She highlighted Ms. Hanleys record and noted that Ms. Hanley was performing quite well. The DPP also highlighted one of the Assizes indicated that the pattern was for more than one officer to work along with a prosecutor. The DPP stated that it was her hope before she left, that the prosecutors would be able to handle cases on their own. She further stated that she had a record of the number of cases that any one prosecutor would have been involved in the Assizes. The DPP recommended Ms. Hanley for the Senior Crown Counsel position and noted that while she was currently a Crown Counsel, Ms. Hanley could manage any Senior Crown Counsel position that was created and two other Crown Counsel positions would be BVIslanders who were returning in 2012. 254. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that it was good to hear that Ms. Hanley was proving her worth and requested the information the DPP presented on the cases be submitted for the record. The Chairman requested that the DPP submit the information presented. The DPP stated that while she was able to present some of the information, due to the workload some of the prosecutors do not hand back the completed file, and it was only until the file was submitted that the record is compiled. The Chairman clarified that the Members were referring to the information that had been shared at the proceedings. The DPP stated that she would comply and the numbers would most likely increase. 255. The Member for the Third District asked whether the posts were well known to the Minister of Education who had the job programme for young BVIslanders and enquired whether the persons were returning to the Territory were on Government scholarships. The DPP responded that they did not personally recruit the lawyers, they were sent from the DeHR. She explained that the DeHR would generally ask if the ODPP needed lawyers and the ODPP would interview and place them in the office. She stated that, generally, all they needed in the ODPP were persons who wanted to prosecute, adding that as soon as she interviewed the candidates she could tell

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whether they would be suitable for the ODPP or not. The Member stated that it was very encouraging. 256. The Chairman referred to the question raised by The Member for the Third District regarding the availability of qualified suitable BVIslanders for placement into the posts and suggested that any additional questions should be placed with the DeHR, especially as it related to scholarships and candidates for placement within the various government agencies. 257. The Member for the Third District noted that the DPP was the second department with human resources needs thus far and there would probably be many that came before the SFC with staffing concerns and struggles to get the department staffed. He stated that it was imperative that department heads knew that the Members supported their needs and the departments must vigorously pursue the DeHR to have the positions filled. The Member further stated that when the departments returned to the SFC regarding vacancies and were questioned regarding why the vacancies were not filled, the departments could not say that the DeHR was responsible. He stated that he wanted to hear that recommendations were made and forwarded to the DeHR. 258. The Chairman thanked the DPP and the SAO for their contributions and they were excused from the proceedings. The DPP enquired when the ODPP would know whether the staffing would be approved. She was informed that she would know after the Budget had been passed.

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HEAD 715 Present:

COMPLAINTS COMMISSION

Mr. Elton Georges

Complaints Commissioner, Complaints Commission (CC)

259.

The Chairman welcomed the Complaints Commissioner (CC) to the proceedings and asked that he state his name and position for the record to which he complied.

260.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian indicated that he had some questions for the CC and stated that he had questions for every person that came before the committee and would have more questions for some departments than others. The Territorial Member then enquired how the CC found his role and whether he considered that the Territory was getting value for money based on that position. The CC noted that the questions were two fold and responded that it was an interesting job and the office was kept very busy achieving what was intended when the office was established. Additionally he believed that the Territory was getting value for money in the services rendered to people and to the Government.

261.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian then enquired about the most frequent type of complaint received. The CC responded that without a doubt it was delays and nonresponsiveness in getting things such as applications dealt with or requests for information, where persons wrote in or applied, and there was a long delay in responding. He illustrated by referring to the office responding to a complaint regarding an application for naturalisation made in 2003 and decision was only made in 2007, but during that time no one was updated unless they called the office to follow up.

262.

The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired about the total number of cases dealt with since the office had been established. The CC explained that when one referred to the number of cases, a distinction must be made between persons calling the office, walk-ins and writing to the office regarding matters. He stated that
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with all three types combined, the total was nearly 300 or so, perhaps even more. The Minister clarified that he was requesting the total number, since the CC would have had to judge which of the complaints were relevant. He repeated the question and requested the total number, whether the complaints were relevant or irrelevant. The CC replied that that was what he was speaking to, and in regards to matters brought before the office, in total it was over 300, in the three years that the Complaints Commission had been established. The CC responded that in terms of the relevant complaints, those numbers were much fewer and noted that in 2009, the number of investigations was five, and in 2010 it was about 14, and in 2011 the number was approximately 20 or so. Subhead 62200 Specialist Expenses 263. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian noticed in the details, two items stood out including the Rent and an item called Specialist Expenses. Territorial Member read the notes attached to this Subhead and enquired about the type of specialists that were used to give advice and requested the CC to provide a case where a specialist was used to advise the office. The CC responded that the Subhead was provided if assistance was needed in cases where they might have been necessary. The CC noted that the office had not really drawn on it. The CC referred to the Act where it stated that if the Commissioned deemed it appropriate, one could appoint a mediator to mediate a matter between the government agency and the individual making the complaint. He stated if this occurred then mediator fees would have to be paid. The CC added that the office could seek the services of a professional to assist in any situation. For example he stated, if there was an investigation in finance, the office could hire an accountant. He illustrated with an example of an investigation a few years ago surrounding a contract with the PWD and explained that it might have been possible that they might have needed the services of an engineer to advise on certain technical aspects of that dispute. The CC stated that in the end an engineer had not been required, but those are the types of things that one would not know if the services would have been needed and they needed to have the funds to draw on.
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264.

The CC further stated that the office did not have a lawyer and in some cases they may need legal advice. He commented that legal advice was so costly that they had to carefully consider when it was needed and the small funds that were available could be exhausted getting advice on one matter. He reiterated that the subhead was

basically to get the services of any professional to assist in an investigation. The Member for the Fifth District enquired whether the services had to be taken from outside of government. The CC stated yes. She then enquired whether the office could not use the services of the Attorney Generals Chambers. The CC responded that it could not since the AGC was the Governments legal advisor and if legal matters arose the AGC would advise the Government office. The CC added that they had had occasions where they were investigating a Government office who sought counsel with the AGC so it would have been a conflict of interest. 265. The Member for the Fifth District agreed and then enquired whether the situation has ever occurred where they have had to access outside legal services. The CC responded that he had considered it, but had not decided to acquire the services of an outside lawyer as yet. He added that it was something that was always there and looming as a possibility that the office might need to have a lawyer or might have to do without one. The CC stated that every year the office made requests for the position of a lawyer, because without a lawyer the office might make mistakes and end up in trouble. The Member then enquired how the office proceeded in situations like that, whether the Commission had ever dropped the case or simply advised someone to the best of its ability. The CC responded yes and stated that the office had been providing advice, but with the absence of legal counsel there were limits to what could be undertaken. 266. The Member for the Fifth District enquired whether it was advisable if a complainant would be advised to seek legal counsel. The CC responded that persons had come to the office with complaints and had been advised that for the remedies they had been seeking, going to court might be their best option. The CC stated that he could only make recommendations but courts could make orders. The CC referred to the Act
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and that it stated that it did stated that if a person came to the office and had a recourse by way of court proceedings, based on his judgment, except for judicial review (which the office could not investigate); but if it was unreasonable to expect the person to go to court then the Commission could still investigate the matter. The CC reiterated that judgment calls were made and the Complaints Commission would deem if it was practical for the person to go to court. He added that either way, the Commission would try to help anyway and try to give the best advice possible. Subhead 61510 Office Rent 267. The CC made reference to this Subhead and noted that it was $19,300 which covered half of the rent for the space occupied for the office and stated that the DGO paid the balance. He added that the DGO had informed the Commission that they would now have to pay the entire sum and the amount had been placed in the budget but it had been reduced to $19,300 and he was simply drawing attention to that fact. The CC stated that the office did not use all of the space, perhaps only half which was also occupied by the Registrar of Interests, an officer who reports to the Governor, the former PSMEC, Mrs. Carolyn ONeal-Morton, who was also using one of the offices on special projects for the Governor and there was another spare office. He stated that the rent had to be reallocated to cover the entire costs, whether it was with the Complaints Commission or the DGO. 268. The Member for the Fifth District asked whether other Government offices occupied the space on that floor as well. The CC confirmed that they were. The Member for the Fifth District asked whether the coroner was one of those officers. The CC stated that it was not. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian also clarified that the CC was paying the full rent even though the office was sharing the space with others. The CC responded that the rent assigned to the offices budget was always half and the DGO paid the other half. He added that this year, the DGO stated the Complaints Commission would have to pay the entire rent which would be $38,600.00. The CC repeated that the outstanding half had to be paid from somewhere. Territorial Member enquired about where the other half would have been found. The FS confirmed that
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he had adjusted the subhead but the CC had to make it work since there would be no reallocations in the year. 269. There being no further questions, the Chairman thanked the CC for his contributions.

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HEAD 720 Present:

OFFICE OF THE REGISTRAR OF INTERESTS

Mrs. Victoreen Romney-Varlack

Registrar of Interests (RI)

270.

The Chairman welcomed the Registrar of Interests (RI) to the proceedings and asked that she state her name and position for the records to which she complied.

271.

The RI indicated that she had reviewed the draft budget and was proposing some adjustments, which were reductions in four subheads. The first being Subhead 61120 Books and Subscriptions with a reduction of $100; Subhead 61220 Electricity, with a reduction of $200; Subhead 61230 Water, with a reduction of $200; and Subhead 61240 Postage, with a reduction of $200. She then requested that Subhead 61620 Local Travel be increased to $2,600.00 as $2,592.00 was the bare minimum and the difference was only $8.00. The RI explained that if the proposals were accepted then her budget would have been $65,000 which would show a savings of $200.

272.

The Minister for Health and Social Development sought clarification on whether the annual electric bill was only $100. The RI stated that the Office did not pay electricity and explained that the office space was shared with the Complaints Commission and the amounts represented were simply token figures.

273.

The RI stated that registration was a very elementary exercise that was required by Members to complete the form and coming into the Office was not necessary since there were Messengers to deliver the forms. The RI added that the Members would also have an opportunity to interact with the Office. The RI made an appeal to the House of Assembly stating that it has been four years since the Act had been brought into force and since the Registrar had been appointed and a standing select committee was to be appointed to work with the register, which meant the Standing Orders of the House of Assembly need to be amended and brought in line with the current !"#$%"$%&'%"#$%

constitution. She stated that until the standing orders are amended and accepted in the HoA, the standing select committee could not be appointed, and therefore she had no register. 274. The RI explained when declarations were filed or brought to the office, since each Member has a folder, the applications are placed in the folders. The RI noted that the Members should be thankful that the Register was not a public document because if it were, there would be nothing to inspect and she had a blank register book. The RI stated that the practice had been going on for a while and every standing finance meeting she had attended she had made the point repeatedly that a select committee needed to be appointed. 275. The RI also stated that there was another matter looming on the horizon and that was the amendment of the Act itself, or possibly the repealing or replacement of the Act because successive throne speeches spoke to the amendment of the Act to bring in senior public officers to make declarations. If that was done then the current Act could not be applied. The RI further stated that it was fine if a short term select committee was brought in, but something needed to be done soon because all of the relevant persons would soon be seriously criticized at the end of the day. 276. The Member for the Second District responded that sadly enough, most of the work to bring it online had already been done, but the motion to readjust the standing orders with the new constitution just could not seem to come. He added that a lot of work had already been done with the previous administration and it was just to have the motion come before the House of Assembly. 277. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the Members needed to approve the motion now, within the first year. 278. The Member for the Second District informed the RI that if she examined the records, she would have found that most of the work had been done. She responded that it had been tabled in the House of Assembly in 2006. The Member then stated that as soon
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as the new committees in the House of Assembly were established, the motion needed to come before the House of Assembly. 279. There being no further questions the Chairman thanked the RI for attending the proceedings.

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HEAD 730 Present:

AUDIT

Mrs. Sonia Webster

Auditor General, Audit Department (AGen)

280.

The Chairman welcomed the Auditor General (AGen) and asked that she state her name and position for the records to which she complied.

281.

The Auditor General (AGen) told the Committee that the Department was operating on an extremely tight budget and with the present cuts, the operation of the Department was going to be challenging. However, she had an appreciation for the current state which Government was in and she was prepared to work the situation as is. She also informed that were compulsory payments which were under-budgeted in the Estimates however, they were going to be amended throughout the year. She stated that value for money initiatives were developed during most of 2011 and several detailed reports were produced and she hoped to have them edited in a format for public viewing throughout the course of 2012. The AGen also stated that the said reports would be submitted to the Minister for Finance so that they can be laid on the Table of the House of Assembly. Also regarding the financial audits of the Treasury Department, three of those reports were recently laid on the Table at the House of Assembly. Once completed, the 2010 report for the Treasury Department will be submitted to be laid on the Table. The AGen said that the Treasury Department was working on the report for 2011 and once completed was going to be submitted to be laid on the Table.

282.

The AGen stated that there was a challenge in acquiring adequate staff as advertising could only be done internally and the responses received have not met the requirements of the post, and in turn the department was operating with a shortstaffed. She further stated that several posts were recently advertised and she was hoping for favourable responses.
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283.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian wanted to know which posts were advertised. The AGen responded that the posts for an Auditor, Senior Auditor and Audit Manager were advertised and she had so far received responses to the post of Senior Auditor and she was awaiting responses to the other advertised posts.

284.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the number of available positions. The AGen responded that there were three levels of vacant positions which were at the level of Auditor, Senior Auditor and Audit Manager. Subhead 60100 Established Employees

285.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if the vacancies were in addition to the seventeen staff plus the AGen. The AGen stated that they were not; they made up part of the current establishment.

286.

The Chairman asked if, of the 18 staff members, there were three vacancies. The AGen responded that there were three levels of vacancies and she further stated that there were vacancies for two Senior Auditors.

287.

For clarification, the Chairman asked the Auditor General to state specifically how many vacancies there were under the three levels. The AGen stated that including the Executive Officer there were four vacancies. She further stated that any vacancies greatly impacted the functioning of the Department as it was small in size.

288.

The AGen informed the Committee that there were plans to continue the value for money programme in 2012. The programme she informed was to include

environmental auditing and the necessary research for this type of auditing was already conducted. She emphasized that given the amount of sewerage on the roads, the condition of the shorelines with regard to sewerage not being properly handled as well as cremation not being done properly. The AGen continued that every Audit Department in developing countries had done this type of audit and it was time that this Territory had done the same.

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289.

The AGen further informed the Committee that another initiative was started in 2011 which was for the educational development of the staff but that external response to this was low. The intention of this initiative was to have staff obtain the necessary professional qualification in their field. Several members of the staff who were excited about the initiative and had signed up to get entry to the CPA programme were informed that they needed more credits towards a Masters Degree to be qualified to take the CPA. Despite the dampened spirits of the staff she expressed that she was going to continue to push that initiative.

290.

The AGen also stated that despite limited resources, she was going to continue with the contract auditing initiative which required the staff to work out in the field to review projects instead of merely looking at documents. She added that contracting auditing tied in with value for money auditing as well as environmental auditing. She also informed that contract auditing had to be suspended due to staffing issues but was to resume in 2012.

291.

The Member for the Fifth District wanted to know if staff were trained to conduct environmental audits. The AGen informed that part of the 2011 initiative was to identify training for environmental auditing and the necessary research was conducted whereby institutions were identified to provide training. She further stated that

departments with the expertise such as Conservation and Fisheries, Water and Sewerage Department and Environmental Health would be sort to provide specific technical information, and even though there are experts within the service she intended to have the staff trained so they would know what to do. Subhead 61610 Overseas Travel Subhead 62910 Training Expenses 292. The Member for the Third District noted that the AGen mentioned that she was going to work with the figures provided even though it was going to be challenging. However, he commented that looking at the said figures with the exception of about two Subheads the AGen was doing as good in 2012 as was done in 2011. He also
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noted that the figure of $42,700.00 in Subhead 61610 for 2011 was actually lower for 2012 at $28,800.00. As well as expenses Subhead 62910 was lower for 2012 as it was in 2011. 293. The Member for the Third District wanted to know how the AGen recruited new staff. The AGen firstly informed that the figures for 2011 were not the end of year figures and in many areas the figures were less than what was actually incurred in 2011. She also noted that some payments were compulsory such as Social Security at Subhead 60610 and Health Insurance at Subhead 60620 and the figures reflected were actually less than what was spent last year. Subhead 61220 Electricity Subhead 61110 Printing and Stationery 294. The AGen noted that the figures in Subhead 61220 were not sufficient to cover that expense in 2011 as the electricity had exploded after the budget was prepared around June. She also noted that Printing and Stationery at Subhead 61110 was more than the figure shown. 295. The AGen informed the Committee that more money was going to be needed but she did not want to ask for money now as she could not say for certain in which areas there were going to be savings she had deferred transferring money until later in the year. She continued to inform that she had asked her Senior Managers to identify areas where they could save and make the necessary adjustments. 296. Regarding the recruitment of staff, the AGen informed the Committee that she followed the required Government procedures whereby the positions were sent to the DeHR and they were advertised internally. She noted that lower end positions were very difficult to fill as persons in the service were already settled and were not going to move to a low-end position. She added that it was the same for mid-level positions where there was difficulty in filling them unless a better salary was being offered persons were not going to move. Despite some of the requirements for some of the positions were very high, the AGen noted that persons who could provide high levels
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of work were needed and she was not going to fill those positions simply for the sake of filling them. 297. The Member for the Third District wanted to know whether the AGen went through the Deputy Governors Office for assistance in recruiting staff or through the Department of Human Resources. The AGen informed that she went through the DeHR but the appointment was returned to her through the Deputy Governors Office. 298. The Member for the Third District asked what connection the Audit Department had to the Deputy Governors Office and the Auditor General informed that it was primarily administrative as it pertained to matters such as extended leave. 299. The Member for the Third District further asked if the operation of the Audit Department was independent and the AGen confirmed that that was correct. 300. The Member for the Third District noted that the House of Assembly had recently received a number of audited accounts and he wanted to know if that was as a result of department being short-staffed or was it that the Department was not responsible for the accounts reaching the House of Assembly when it had. The AGen informed that a couple of the reports were submitted years ago to be laid in the House and they were not. She reiterated that those accounts were not just produced. 301. The Member for the Third District wanted to know if after the accounts were prepared and submitted, what responsibility the Department had to ensure that the reports were laid on the Table as in the case of the accounts which were submitted years before. The AGen explained that once the report was completed, copies were sent to the Minister for Finance, the Financial Secretary and complimentary copies were sent to the Governors Office. She also informed that the Constitution laid out how the process was to take place to lay the reports on the Table along with the time-frame for it to take place. She also informed that further provisions were made in the Audit Act which dictated that when the time-frame laid out in the Constitution was not met the
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report could be sent directly to the Speaker of the House to have them laid on the Table. 302. The Minister for Health and Social Development noted that according to the Constitution the accounts had to be prepared within the last three months of the year and then submitted to the Minister for Finance after which, the Minister had three months to lay the document on the Table. If after that period of time the document was not laid, the AGen could send the report directly to the Speaker. The AGen confirmed what the Minister for Health and Social Development had said. 303. The Minister for Health and Social Development wanted to know what had happened to all the accounts which were over three months old. The AGen informed that all the accounts which were over three months old were laid on the Table. However, it was always left to the Minister for Finance to take the necessary steps to have them laid on the Table. Which in turn the Auditor General noted made her delinquent in not doing her part to have them forward directly to the Speaker to have them laid on the Table if it was not done by the Minister for Finance within the set time-frame. 304. The Minister for Health and Social Development noted that when he returned to Government he heard the 2010 reports being discussed and according to his understanding from the AGen, the Treasury Department was in the process of preparing a new set of accounts and he wanted to know more about that. The AGen responded that the 2010 accounts were received last year and they were reviewed by her Department. However, the process of auditing the reports required that they went back and forth because her department was not going to certify the information if they were not satisfied with what they saw. She stated that she was awaiting an amended set of statements from the Treasury Department as they had not been finalised as yet. The Minister for Health and Social Development wanted to know what time-frame they were looking at to get the documented accounts back from the Treasury Department. The AGen advised that the Minister would have to consult the

Accountant General as she did not have the answer.

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305.

The Member for the Third District wanted to know if the relationship between the Audit Department and the Treasury Department was direct and the AGen confirmed that it was. She explained that the reports are sent directly to the Audit Department from the Treasury Department and the Audit Department would present any queries and send it back. In turn the Treasury Department would make the necessary changes and send them back to the Audit Department for review and this would continue until the report was finalised.

306.

The Minister for Health and Social Development wanted clarification on time frame in which the AGen had to submit the reports which according to his understanding was three month after the end of the year. However, the Auditor General informed that the Accountant General had to submit the accounts to the Auditor General within that time-frame and the AGen had two to three months after that to audit the accounts and submit them to the Minister for Finance. She also advised that she would verify and provide the exact time frame at a later time.

307.

The Minister for Health and Social Development wanted to know if any audits were done on any major government projects over the past eight years. The AGen

informed that several audits were conducted and the most recent ones were done of the incinerator project, the Biwater project, and an interim audit of the Johnson Ghut as it was ongoing. 308. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked about audits specifically for projects over $5M. The AGen confirmed that the cost of the incinerator exceeded $5M. She also informed that the Hospital project was not audited due in part because it required a certain level of technical knowledge which the Audit Department did not have and perhaps not even Government. She is reluctant in conducting a surface audit on the hospital and overlooking certain details. 309. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if the aforementioned audits were conducted via special instructions or were they conducted as part of the general process. The AGen informed that the audits were conducted through general audit
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process. She further enveloped that a programme was laid out to identify projects which the department will conduct an audit on in any given year as some projects potentially could cost Government a large amount of money. The AGen mentioned that audits have been conducted on request such as the audit on the ferry service to Anegada which was requested by Cabinet. She informed that she could provide a list of all the audited projects to the Committee. 310. The Minister for Health and Social Development advised that he was interested in the conclusions of the audits and how it can be made better because mistakes were going to be made as long as they were alive but improvement on those mistakes could always be made better. 311. The Minister for Health and Social Development wanted to know if it was a problem to get copies of audits that were done by special request. The AGen informed that she did not foresee it as a problem and promised to provide the information. 312. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that the hospital project was one of the largest and most expensive projects which government had undertaken and he thought that an audit would have been conducted despite there not being certain expertise within the Audit Department. He expressed that he would have liked to see that audit conducted and that the necessary expertise should have been made available to conduct the audit as the public had a right to know how those funds were spent. He wanted to know if the AGen thought that an audit of the hospital should have been conducted once the expertise was provided. 313. The AGen informed the Committee that a number of audits were conducted on the health services, the hospital services as well as the hospital annex. She expressed her appreciation for what the Member said and further expressed that she wanted to do the audit once there was adequate resources and that she can devote some of the time to planning the audit and looking at how it can be done. The AGen reiterated that she would like to have the resources on hand to conduct the audit before getting started.
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314.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian noted that Subhead 61220 Electricity was one of the largest items in the budget and he wanted to know if any measures were being considered to reduce the electricity consumption such as different types of light bulbs and different types of air condition units and if an audit was done on her departments energy consumption. The AGen recalled that at the former location on Main Street, electricity cost less than $500.00 per month and the cost is much higher at the new location. She expressed her belief that the air conditioning was a

contributing factor as that it needs to be on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week but they used to turn it off in the evenings which caused it to malfunction. Once it was fixed they were informed that it needed to be on constantly so that the temperature can be self-regulated and the technicians also advised that it would cost less to run once it was on constantly. The AGen also voiced her concern that the bills were not received directly from the Electricity Corporation. The landlord was the one who received the bill as it was billed in one unit and in turn she used her own internal system to issue the bill. She added that the process was disturbing enough for her to insist on accompanying the landlord for the reading of the bill each month. The AGen also informed that the cost of electricity was increasing monthly and that there was nothing that could have been done about that. 315. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian wanted to know which building the Audit Department was located in. The AGen informed that the name of the building was the Scatturn Building. 316. The Member for the Third District asked if the department occupied an entire floor and the AGen confirmed that that was so. 317. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian suggested that the AGen ask the landlord to install solar powered air conditioned units and to have individual metres installed as well. The AGen agreed with what the Member said and stated that she had went as far as consulting the Treasury Department regarding the billing. However, that was the way that the agreement was set up.
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318.

The Member for the Fifth District asked if there was a lease agreement and if the Auditor General was aware of the details in the lease agreement. The AGen

confirmed that there was a lease agreement and informed that she was not aware of the particulars regarding that particular provision and only became aware of it through a discussion with someone who was familiar with the system. 319. The Member for the Fifth District asked if the AGen was the negotiator on the lease and the AGen informed that she was not and further informed that she only sat in on certain discussions. She further stated that when the final document was presented there were a number of surprises in it. The Member for the Fifth District wanted to know who signed the lease and the Auditor General stated that the lease was signed by the Deputy Governors Office. 320. The Member for the Third District commented that all the other leases were no better. The AGen agreed with what The Member for the Third District said and advised that the lease was actually better than many other leases and there were copies of just about every lease in her department. 321. The Member for the Fifth District expressed her concern about the way the billing system for electricity was being done and stated that that was unacceptable. Each department needed their own electricity bill and that the lease should not have been accepted that way. 322. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked when the lease would expire. The AGen indicated that the lease was a five year lease. She noted that merely moving to another building was not going to solve the problem and suggested that the government set out guidelines that landlords would have to follow. 323. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian agreed with the Auditor General and noted that in recent negotiations for a lease for which he was a part of, Government informed the leaser that there was a certain amount that they were willing to pay and no more, and he felt that the lease being discussed should have been negotiated better.
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The AGen agreed that better conditions should have been negotiated. Territorial Member then suggested that when the lease expired the AGen needed to negotiate for better conditions in the lease. 324. The Member for the Fifth District asked how long they occupied the office and the Auditor General informed that they occupied the space two years ago. 325. The Member for the Third District wanted to know why projects such as the incinerator and Biwater were audited as in the case of Biwater there was no project to audit and he wanted to know if it was the agreement that was being audited. The AGen noted that in the case of Biwater it was audited because there was a significant government interest and long-term potential cost not just for government but the entire country. She thought that those were significant matters which warranted the audit. 326. The Member for the Third District wanted to know what the significant interest was in Biwater as other water companies were not audited. The AGen informed that audits were conducted for on the arrangements for all the other water companies. 327. The Member for the Third District wanted to know if the lease of a building for the cost of $7M with the said lease being signed before the space was occupied would be subject to an audit. The AGen informed the Committee that the lease would be audited if it was indicated that government and the Territory was going to be negatively impacted. She also noted that audits have been conducted on leases

before. She also advised of the difference between value for money auditing and financial auditing. She continued that the value for money audit went beyond how much money was spent and looked at long-term potentials and whether they were getting what was best. 328. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired as to what were the reasons for an audit being conducted. The AGen advised that at the beginning of the year each high risk areas of each Ministry and Departments were looked at and a spending plan was
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prepared. Based on the plans audits were conducted to avoid wastage of Government funds. 329. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if the audit report on Biwater was sent to Cabinet. The AGen informed that the report was sent to the Minister for Communications and Works and the Premier. 330. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if government vehicles were also audited. The AGen advised that they were. The Member then asked how recently an audit had been done on vehicles and she stated that the last audit was conducted in 2010. She further informed the Committee that as a result of the audit persons who were assigned vehicles were giving the option of purchasing them. 331. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian noted that the AGen had indicated that a report was prepared on Biwater and he wanted to know if that report was made available to Cabinet. The AGen answered that the report was sent to the Minister for Communications and Works and that she also took the liberty of sending the report to the Premier. She also noted that they could take it to Cabinet. 332. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if audits were conducted on government vehicles. The AGen advised that they were and that the most recent audit of that nature was conducted by the Internal Audit Department. As a result of that audit, persons were given the option to purchase the vehicle and Government made a decision to cut back on purchasing vehicles. She further noted that the Financial Secretary would be in a better position to elaborate more on that policy. 333. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian wanted to know if the policy included use of government vehicles after-hours. The AGen informed that there were guidelines on restrictions on using vehicles outside regular hours. However, there were

departments where the vehicles can be used after-hours such as Water and Sewerage Department, Public Works Department and the Police who also have a number of unmarked vehicles.
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334.

The Minister for Education and Culture wanted the record to reflect that it was incorrect to say that contracts were issued and bush not cut in the last bush cutting exercises under the present Administration. He noted that according to his knowledge the Public Works Department had to verify that work was done before payments could be issued. The Auditor General confirmed that that was the procedure.

335.

The Minister for Education and Culture wanted to know that if bush was not cut that perhaps it meant that the Public Works Department had not reached a particular stage at the time. The AGen noted that she did not state that she saw payments and bush not cut but she stated earlier that she had seen contracts issued and bush not cut.

336.

The Minister for Education and Culture enquired if the Auditor General was referring to the last exercise which was undertaken by the present Administration or if it was a general statement. statement. The AGen informed the Committree that it was a general

337.

The Minister for Health and Social Development noted that the reason why he asked the question was because the cost of doing business with Government was very high and that attention needed to be paid as they went along. He also noted that some of the unit prices were very high and the reports would help. The AGen confirmed that she said this statement as an invitation for reports to be prepared and she would do so and send them to be laid on the Table.

338.

The Chairman thanked the AGen for attending the meeting and encouraged to keep out the good works.

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HEAD 100 Present

GOVERNORS OFFICE

Mr. David Archer

Permanent (PSDGO)

Secretary,

Deputy

Governors

Office

Mrs. Natalie Fahie-Smith Mrs. Kara Penn-Stoutt

Private Secretary, Governors Office Finance and Planning Officer, Deputy Governors Office (FPODGO)

339.

The Chairman welcomed the PSDGO and his team for attending the SFC meeting and asked that they state their names for the record to which they complied.

340.

The Private Secretary gave a brief summary on matters pertaining to the Governors Office. Such as the role of the Governor, subjects that came under the Governors Office; accomplishments; and challenges experienced at the office throughout 2011.

341.

The Minister for Health and Social Development asked what the total number of persons whether permanent or temporary who were employed with Government and the total number of vacancies were. The Permanent Secretary, Deputy Governors Office (PSDGO) informed that there were a total of 2667 persons employed but he did not have the figure for the number of vacant posts. He further stated that the Director of Human Resources would be able to provide that information.

342.

The Minister for Health and Social Development wanted to know if the figure of 2667 included vacant posts. The PSDGO informed that that was the number of current bodies employed and did not include vacancies.

343.

The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired if the Governors Group was responsible for the prison. The Private Secretary answered that the Governor
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only had constitutional responsibility for the prison and was not in charge of the prison. 344. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked for specifics to the Governors constitutional responsibility. The Private Secretary informed that the Governor was responsible for matters of national security and he was also responsible for the release of prisoners under Prerogative of Mercy. 345. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired as to what it meant for the Governor to be responsible for National Security as it relates to the prison. The Private Secretary advised that that meant that the Governor was responsible for the safety of the Territory which encompasses the prison because if not secured the prison could pose a threat to the Territory. 346. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if the Governor was directly responsible for constructing and repairing barracks and fences at the prison. The Private Secretary informed that the Governor was not but he was responsible for ensuring that the prison was structured in a way to keep it safe. 347. The Minister for Health and Social Development wanted to know if there were concerns about the management of the prison such as riots and potential escapes, if the Governor would check the fence for breaches himself or if such matters would be brought to the attention of the Minister. The Private Secretary informed that the Governor did not do anything directly but instead he met monthly with the Acting Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Education and Culture (AgPSEC) and the Superintendent of the Prison to discuss matters pertaining to the prison. She added that the Governor was also trying to seek to have meetings with the Minister to resolve immediate problems as the Governor had no desire to be in charge of the prison. 348. The Minister for Education and Culture asked how National Security worked in the context of the Prison and what the Governors responsibility for the prison was. The
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Private Secretary advised that in terms of responsibility for the prison there were two sections at the Governors Office, the FCO and the Governors Office. She further clarified that the Governors Office was responsible for Prerogative of Mercy matters etc. and that she could not give details as she could only speak to what she was responsible for. She noted that she would have to submit that information to the Committee at a later stage. 349. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if the Ministry (of Education and Culture) was responsible for the day to day running of the Prison. The Private Secretary informed that as far as she was aware it was, but there were grey areas regarding the prison which the Governor had tried to resolve for quite some time and as such, had sent correspondences to the Minister for Education and Culture asking for discussions on the prison to take place. These discussions she added pertained to clarifying roles and rules and the way forward. 350. The Minister for Education and Culture wanted to know what those grey areas were. The Private Secretary informed that matters such as who was directly responsible for providing funding for some of the projects that took place at the prison and the visiting committee etc. 351. The Minister for Education and Culture asked why the Governor only met with the Superintendent and not the Minister himself since the Minister and Ministry was responsible for the day to day operation of the prison, and the Governor was responsible for National Security. The Private Secretary answered that the Governor was gearing towards having meetings directly with the Minister and had sought to have such meetings since early 2011. She also added that the Governor had been trying to have that type of relationship for a very long time and in her opinion once that relationship was established the way forward was going to be clearer. 352. The Minister for Education and Culture expressed that a country could not run on relationships and that there was a Constitution which clearly gave the Minister and the Governor certain responsibilities and as such the Governor should not meet with
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only the Superintendent and not the Minister. The Private Secretary noted that the Minster and the Governor would have to sort out those matters. 353. The Minister for Education and Culture wanted to know in terms of matters of National Security who was responsible for the Parole Board whether the Minister or the Governor. The Private Secretary informed that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) was responsible for parole and the Governors Office helped to facilitate the process. She further stated that the Ministry was responsible for the Parole Board. 354. The Minister for Education and Culture noted that the Private Secretary used the word Ministry and not Minister and expressed that he as Minister knew nothing of the Parole Board being the Ministrys responsibility. 355. The Member for the Third District noted that there was a slight misconception as when the Private Secretary said Ministry she meant that it was all-encompassing. He cautioned that there was a clear distinction between the Ministry and the Minister and that there were things that happened in the Ministry that the Minister was not aware of. He strongly suggested that if there was something intended for the Minister it should be ensured that the Minister received it as there seemed to be a conception that the Minister was aware that the Governor met with the Permanent Secretary and the Superintendent monthly. 356. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian wanted to know if they were utilizing energy efficient means at the Governors Office. The Private Secretary informed that there were conservative measures which were taken to lower energy consumption. She noted that the legislation needed to change with regard to solar energy if they were going to adopt that type of measure. She continued that staff turned off the air conditioning and lights if they were not in a room. She also informed the Committee that the cost of electricity included the Old Government House Museum and the Governors residence as well.
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357.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if energy efficient bulbs and solar powered air conditioned (AC) units were being considered or used because the cost of electricity was very high. He also noted that they did not have to wait for legislation to install solar powered air conditioning. The Private Secretary responded that energy saving bulbs were recently purchased as well as the United Kingdom (UK) Government paid to change all the AC units in the residence and office to energy efficient ones.

358.

The Minister for Health and Social Development expressed that the Governor was trying to have a relationship with the Minister for Education and Culture for quite some time regarding the Prison but that it had never happened and he wanted to know if that is what was said. The Private Secretary confirmed that the Governor had tried to have meetings with the Minister and other relevant persons to discuss the way forward.

359.

The Minister for Education and Culture asked for clarification as to which Minister the Private Secretary was referring to. The Private Secretary answered that she was referring to the former Minister for Education and Culture.

360.

The Member for the First District asked for clarification as to whether the Governor tried to have meetings or had meetings with the (former) Minister for Education and Culture. The Private Secretary advised that as far as she was aware the Governor had tried to have meetings with the (former) Minister, the PS and other persons regarding the prison.

361.

The Member for the First District stated that as far as he could recall the current Governor had succeeded as there were several meetings between him and the Governor when he was the Minister for Education and Culture so he wanted to know what the problem was.

362.

The Chairman explained that the Minister for Health and Social Development had asked for clarification on what the Private Secretary had said about the Governor
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trying to meet with the Minister for Education and Culture, the Permanent Secretary and the Superintendent to ensure that there was a collaborative effort in running the prison. 363. The Member for the First District stated for the record, that the current Governor made efforts to have meetings with him when he was Minister for Education and Culture and as a result there were meetings. The Member for the First District also noted that the former Governor made no effort to have meetings during the time when he was Minister for Education and Culture regarding the prison. He further stated that the former Governor insisted that the prison was part of his portfolio, thus no significant discussion or meetings wee had with the then Minister despite numerous requests by the Minister to have such. He also confirmed that there was an excellent professional relationship between him and the current Governor regarding the Prison and we were well on the way to have the grey areas addressed. 364. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked how many vehicles were in the Governors Office pool and wanted to know the condition of those vehicles. The Private Secretary informed that there were two vehicles in their fleet, a Range Rover which was in excellent condition and a Lexus which was the former official vehicle and it was not in good condition and was taken off the road when the Range Rover was purchased. She added that a non-dealer mechanic was repairing the vehicle to bring it back to a condition where it could be fully used. She further informed that it was currently being used by the messenger to run errands. 365. The Member for the Third District commented that the Lexus was an extravagant use of resources to be used by the messenger. The Private Secretary informed that a pickup truck was requested but permission was never given to purchase it. She added that the truck was to be used for running errands and for cleaning up and moving chairs back and forth at functions hosted by the Governor. 366. The Minister for Health and Social Development wanted to know if all the vehicles under the Governors control were purchased using BVI Government funds. The
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Private Secretary informed that of the three vehicles, one was purchased by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) for their use and she had no control or authority over that vehicle. 367. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian expressed that he did not think that a Lexus was an appropriate vehicle for running errands. He also noted that a truck from another department could be used to move chairs for functions. Territorial Member suggested that a second-hand vehicle could be purchased for such use as long as it was certified to ensure that it was road-worthy. The Private Secretary informed the Committee that the issue with obtaining a truck was the abuse they received from other departments when trying to borrow a truck. As a result she said that they used the vehicle belonging to the FCO and their personal vehicles to move chairs and clean up. The Private Secretary added that the FCO even purchased a trolley to attach to their vehicle to help with cleaning up. 368. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian advised that there were trucks for between twelve thousand dollars ($12,000.00) to fifteen thousand dollars ($15,000.000) and purchasing a truck should be considered. The Private Secretary informed that she had received quotes for the price of a small pickup truck. 369. The Member for the Fifth District asked if the Lexus could be traded in. The Private Secretary advised that the vehicle had no value. 370. The Member for the Fifth District wanted to know how old the vehicle was. The Private Secretary informed that it was over ten years old. 371. The Member for the Third District asked if the UK Government gave any funding and how much. The Private Secretary stated that the UK Government had provided funding for health and safety matters but she did not know how much. She added that the FCO funded the repairs to the sewerage problem, the installation of the electric gate, and the changing of the air conditioning units at the Governors Office.

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372.

The Member for the Third District wanted to know if the FCO couldnt assist financially with the basic needs of the office such as funding for the truck which appears to be so badly needed. The Private Secretary advised that she could not answer that question and stated that she had done the best she could under the circumstances. The Member commented that he felt that the FCO could have done more to help with the situation. The Private Secretary informed that the FCO had purchased a trolley which would be connected to the rear of the vehicle which they used to help remove the garbage after functions.

373.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what the entrance fee was for the museum at Old Government House. The Private Secretary informed that it was three dollars ($3.00) for foreigners, one dollar ($1.00) for locals and no fee for children. Territorial Member enquired about the funds collected. The Private Secretary

responded that the funds were deposited to a bank account and managed by the Treasurer. Subhead 61420 Alterations and Maintenance 374. The Member for the Sixth District enquired whether the Governors residence fell under Fixed and Moveable Assets as Alterations and Maintenance under Subhead 61420 was very high. The Private Secretary explained that under Subhead 61420 was where maintenance and upkeep of the Governors House was paid from. The Private Secretary stated that she wanted a few changes to the budget. 375. The Minister for Health and Social Development wanted to know if the changes involved an increase in money. The Private Secretary responded that there was no increase it was only to move money from one area to another. Secretary asked the Private Secretary to submit the changes in writing. Subhead 61610 Overseas Travel Subhead 62100 - Uniforms Subhead 62510 Old Government House
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The Financial

376.

The Private Secretary indicated that she was seeking to move one thousand dollars ($1,000.00) from Subhead 61610 and eight hundred dollars ($800.00) from Subhead 62100 to Subhead 62510 to make the figure thirty two thousand, one hundred dollars ($32,100.00). The Private Secretary explained that the purpose for the transfer was because the funds in Subhead 62510 were insufficient to pay the salary for the museum supervisor and the museum cleaner.

377.

The Member for the Eighth District wanted to know how much money the museum made in 2011. The Private Secretary replied that the museum made twelve thousand, two hundred and eighty nine dollars and eighty five cents ($12,289.85) in 2011.

378.

The Member for the Third District enquired how much money the supervisor for the museum earned per year. The Private Secretary informed that the supervisors salary was twenty-four thousand, eight hundred and sixty seven dollars ($24,867.00) per year and with an increment it was going to be approximately twenty-five thousand, one hundred and sixty-seven dollars ($25,167.00) per annum. She also informed that the Cleaners salary per year was five thousand, seven hundred and eighty-nine dollars ($5,789.00), so therefore there were insufficient funds.

379.

The Member for the Eighth District enquired if any steps were being taken to make the museum self-sufficient. The Private Secretary advised that there were steps being taken through sponsorships. She also stated that the fee for renting the museum for a function was increased from seven hundred and fifty dollars ($750.00) to one thousand dollars ($1,000.00).

380.

The Member for the Eighth District also wanted to know approximately how many persons visited the museum in the past four years. The Private Secretary informed that she did not have the figure for the past four years at present but she did have the total for 2011 which was 2,622 persons.

381.

The Member for the Fifth District asked if there were a large number of cruise ship visitors to the museum and the Private Secretary stated that there were none, as the
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museum was not on any of the tour routes from the cruise ships.

The Private

Secretary noted that the Governor was to meet with the Director of the Tourist Board to discuss the matter with a view to gaining visitors from the cruise industry. 382. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked what the revenue generated from the Museum was allocated to. The Private Secretary responded informed that the monies went to maintenance of the building. 383. The Member for the Third District suggested that the Museum prepare and present an annual budget to Cabinet and Cabinet in turn would decide how much money to allocate to the museum. He further suggested that any maintenance matters should be brought to the attention of the Public works Department (PWD) as that department was responsible for maintenance of Government buildings. The Private Secretary advised that the PWD was used in the past but that that department was not always in a position to fund projects for the Governors Residence or the Museum. 384. The Member for the Third District wanted to know how much money the PWD spent to repair the Museum. The Budget Coordinator informed that four hundred and fifty seven thousand, six hundred and fifty dollars ($457,650.00) was spent. 385. The Chairman thanked the panel for appearing before the Standing Finance Committee.

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HEAD 110 Present: Mr. David Archer

DEPUTY GOVERNOR

Permanent (PSDGO)

Secretary,

Deputy

Governors

Office

Mrs. Kara Penn-Stoutt

Finance & Planning Officer, Deputy Governors Office (FPODGO)

386.

The Chairman welcomed the PSDGO and the FPODGO from the Deputy Governors office and asked them to state their names and positions for the record to which they complied.

387.

The PSDGO thanked the Members for the opportunity to speak about the DGOs budget. He provided the Members with a document which gave an overview of all the departments under the Governors Group portfolio.

388.

In a brief presentation, the PSDGO explained that the DGO covered three main areas: to provide advice and support services to the Governor in Governance, National Security and Administration of the Courts. He highlighted some of the DGOs major achievements from page 6 of the document which would be covered by the other Departments under the DGOs group such as the implementation of new fees for the Commercial Courts, the establishment of a monitoring system for CCTV from the Police Force, increase in fees at the Passport Office and Civil Registry, the temporary opening of the Magistrates Court at Prospect Reef, the Efficiency and Innovate and Save programme in the DGO.

389.

The PSDGO also elaborated on the five areas that DGO will focus on for 2012. Those were (1) having legislation for non-profit organisations within the Territory, (2) implementing a Mentorship Programme for the Public Service, (3) launch of the internal complaint mechanism which would provide an avenue for persons to !"#$%!!)%&'%"#$%

formally complain within the Public Service (4) ensuring that the work of the Complaints Commissioner is reduced and (5) introduction of a new approach to monitoring services where each Ministry and Department would be held accountable through year end assessments on their overall delivery of service. 390. The Member for the Third District asked the PSDGO whether cuts were made in the DGOs budget, and how the cuts were determined. The PSDGO replied that 7% of the operating budget was cut, and that the Ministry of Finance (MOF) determined the areas that were cut and not the DGO. 391. The Budget Coordinator (BC) from the MOF advised that cuts were done across the board on other charges and the end result was 7% on the bottom line. Line items that were fixed such as utilities, contribution to overseas organisations, rent, salaries and wages and the benefits subheads were not reduced. She also noted that some of the other line items were cut by 10% or more. 392. The Member for the Third District wondered whether by November and December, 2012 the line items that were reduced would not resort to their 2011 status. The BC advised that Departments were informed in meetings with Ministries and HODs not to expect supplementary budgets this year. The PSDGO stated that the MOF held two meeting regarding the elimination of the SAP and they have taken the approach in the DGO not to go that route unless they are asked to do so by authorities above them. 393. The Member for the Third District queried about the staffing in the DGO and wondered whether there were any current vacancies. The PSDGO advised that there were three vacancies in the DGO namely, one Assistant Secretary since the substantive holder of that post was acting as the Deputy Secretary, one Executive Officer, and one Human Resources Clerk I/II/III. He also explained that there were two Senior Executive Officer posts vacant at the Elections Office which was filled during the height of the elections period but the officers were not normally retained year round.
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394.

The Member for the Third District asked how many Government spaces were covered by the $1.34 Million Dollars allocated for rent. The PSDGO advised that the

attachments following page 25 in the report titled Deputy Governors Office Rent Vote Commitments 2011 depicted the Departments in rental spaces and the total amount of $1.25 Million dollars that the DGO paid for rent. 395. The Member for the Eighth District queried why the other tenancy agreements on the previous page were listed by the DGO. The PSDGO stated that their approach was to centralize the rent management under the DGO. He said that they found that some Departments were negotiating rents on their own which were not in the Governments best interest and the DGO commenced the process to bring all Departments that pay rent together to ensure a centralized rent management system. He further stated that through the Office Accommodation Committee they would check bench marks of what the normal rent was in the community to bring things more in line with market standards so that there would be no disparity in rent moving forward. 396. The Member for the Third District asked whether all the spaces occupied by government were represented on the table. The PSDGO advised that the following table titled 2011 Government Office Accommodation, Storage and Land Rent Commitments depicted all the rent that government paid through the DGO and various Ministries and Departments. The PSDGO reiterated that the DGO only paid some of the rent but it was their intention to bring all the rent under one umbrella and they were in the process of taking over those that were not under their budget. 397. The Member for the Third also noted that the DGO paid up $30 per sq ft in some cases and asked whether it was a complicated exercise for the DGO to manage the rent payment. The PSDGO stated that it was not a difficult exercise and recently they had given it more attention. He stated that there was a proposal for a housing manager to manage office rent but they were unable to fund such a post, but they would continue to monitor it with the MOFs assistance.

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398.

The Member for the Third District questioned who would take the decision as to how rapidly the process would move on and be completed. The PSDGO replied that the DGO and the MOF would take that decision and hoped that it would be completed by the end of 2012. He further stated that the Office Accommodation Committee was responsible for doing the negotiations for the rent.

399.

The Minister for Health and Social Development noted that it was felt in the Territory that the Government was paying the highest rent, but based on the information presented by the Deputy Governors Office this does not support the general perception. The PSDGO advised that at the peak of the rental boom, rent was $42 per square foot at the higher end, but $40 was the norm since the economic crisis and in areas of Road Town it had been reduced to $33 to $35 per square foot. He stated that the Office Accommodation Committee would consult with local realtors to ascertain that what they pay per square foot rates were comparable to the industry standard.

400.

The Member for the Third District noted that if they did better than the market value why they only leased some spaces for short periods, such as space for the National Health Insurance Project, and not for a longer term.

401.

The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the National Insurance Project was a short-term project and that the space rented would not be needed for the long term. The Member for the Third District stated that although that was the case the Government would not give up the space after the project was completed because that was the Governments Modus Operandi. He felt that if one or two good officers were hired solely to manage the rent it would save the government lots of money.

402.

The Chairman stated that there were notations missing from the table and asked the PSDGO to clarify. The PSDGO responded that it either meant the leases had expired or were in negotiations for new leases or negotiations for additional spaces.

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403.

The Minister for Health and Social Development asked what percentage of the population of the Civil Service operated from rented space. The PSDGO stated that he would furnish that information in another sitting. Subhead 62760 Public Sector Development Programme

404.

The Member for the Eight District queried about Subhead 62760 Public Sector Development Programme and asked about the status of the Programme. The PSDGO advised that the Public Sector Development Programme was a unit that tried to accomplish reform in Public Sector, but was not active at present. He stated that they were trying to revive the programme, but presently the funds were used for Public Service Week and to look at other reform activities to enhance the Public Service. The Service Delivery initiative for 2012 would fall within that budget and they hoped that Cabinet would accept their plan for reform in the Public Service. He said the Public Sector Development Programme would possibly have another name.

405.

The Minister for Health and Social Development noted the DGOs group spent about $30 Million per year and a 10% savings would be about $300,000.

406.

The Member for the Third District queried about the status of the revised General Orders. The PSDGO responded that the new General Orders which was titled the Public Service Code was on its way to being finalised. He stated that the draft was completed and was going through its final review and that the Public Service Commission Regulations which were also revised would be included in the new document. The PSDGO continued by stating that he would allow the Ag. Director of Human Resources (AgDHR) to give more accurate details of the revision since it was spearheaded by the Department of Human Resources.

407.

The Minister for Health and Social Development noted that the DGO and the HRD had more than seventy (70) officers combined and felt that it was a large number of personnel to administer the work. He recalled some years ago when it was just a few officers doing the work. The PSDGO explained that the DGO and HRD had separate budgets and with over 2600 officers in the Service, the Department had grown. He
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stated that the complement was put together to supply the need of the Public Service. He felt that once the Ministries became more efficient in their work, they could curtail the size of the HRD and possibly strengthen other Departments. 408. The Member for the Fifth District enquired about the number of Departments under the DGOs portfolio. The PSDGO responded that there were twelve (12) Departments namely, The Governors Officer, Deputy Governors Office, Human Resources Department, Training Division, Department of Disaster Management, Supreme Court, Civil Registry and Passport, Magistracy, Commercial Court, Attorney General Chambers, Police and Law Reform Commission. He also noted that the units

included the Court Reporting Unit, Archives Unit, and Elections Office. 409. The Member for the Fifth District asked the PSDGO to elaborate further on the Complaints Unit that he mentioned in his presentation. The Member for the Third also sought clarification on whether the complaints regarded dissatisfaction in the service. The PSDGO stated that within the Public Service there was no formal internal complaint mechanism system in place if a person had a complaint about a policy or service. He further explained that there was no place for them to go for their issues to be addressed. The PSDGO said that some of the complaints that were brought before to the Complaints Commissioner did not go through the internal process to be corrected. 410. The PSDGO stated that the DGO would be implementing their own internal complaint mechanism programme so that officers would know what steps to take if they had a problem to have it addressed. He said that if a complaint went through the process and the person was still not satisfied that person would then go the Complaints Commissioner who would address the issue after it was not addressed in the Public Service in the right manner. He said if the organization was functioning well and providing the right services for its clientele there would be no need for a Complaint Commissioner. He said that it would be a separate unit dealing with complaints, but that each Ministry and Department would take on the responsibility.
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411.

The Member for the Third District wondered why a dis-satisfied customer could not go to the PS first, then the Minister and then the Complaints Commissioner. He felt that if a complaint was about service itself he could not see how the DGO would improve the service at a particular Department. The PSDGO further explained that the policy did not belong to the DGO, but that they were trying to modernise the process so that customers would know what to do and that a complaint procedure would be laid out.

412.

The Member for the Fifth District felt that the complaints desk should be established for the purpose of handling situations that surround a Public Servant who was wronged or not aware of an injustice. The Member further stated that to the

untrained ear the proposal sounded good but persons whether perceived as wrong or right must be given due process. He wanted to understand the chain of command and was concerned about due process in the Public Service for Public Servants in the 21st Century. He stated that he has a problem where officers in authority could document things about a subordinate without his/her knowledge of what was written. He said that in some cases it was only when the matter reached its pinnacle that the officer would be brought in for a late attempt at due process. 413. The Member for the First District felt the HRD had done a good job over the recent years in involving officers in getting due process. He felt that failure to allow for due process to be given to any accused public officer from the inception was character assassination and there currently seems to be no recourse when an officer is unjustly accused by the hierarchy of the Public Service. He wanted to know how the HRD arm of Government could ensure due process with the new policies and regulations so that peoples personal life and professional integrity would not be unduly targeted or tarnished with seemingly no recourse. He felt that it should be clearly stated in a meeting with the DG and the Complaints Commissioner what the responsibilities of the Complaints Commissioner and the duties of HRD to ensure that there exists no duplication of duties and responsibilities.

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414.

The PSDGO said that he had made great strides in ensuring that Heads of Departments did not write up officers without the officers having a right to address the concerns. He said that the AgDHR could speak about the grievance procedure which was set out specifically for employees who felt they were wronged. He said he was aware that there had been silent reprimands that took place without the officers being involved in the reprimands, but the culture in HRD does not promote that silent reprimand policy.

415.

The Member for the First District queried whether the rotation period for senior Civil Servants was hinged on production. He felt that to help efficiency there should be a way to find bright minds within the service regardless of age and number of years in the Public Service. This course of action would build the professionalism and

efficiency of the Service especially in regards to the general public. The PSDGO requested that the Members query regarding rotation period be directed to the AgDHR. 416. The Member for the First District stated that our public service is important. He stated however that there is still room for improvement in some areas. The Member

referenced a situation where he was informed that a member of the public service who came from St. Thomas called a Department and asked what documents they needed to bring for a particular service and when the person arrived at the Department they were told they needed some additional documents. The Member for the First District wondered why officers could not give all the information over the phone or through any other medium when requested, so as to avoid inconveniencing members of the public. 417. The PSDGO felt that the issue was a real concern and they would be looking at an assessment mechanism for all Departments and Ministries to ensure that what they said they would deliver would be delivered.

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Subhead 61220 - Electricity 418. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried Subhead 61220 - Electricity and wondered whether the consumption charges covered electricity to which the PSDGO answered in the affirmative. 419. The Minister for Health and Social Development noted that since the DGO had responsibility for so many Government offices if an initiative to retrofit these offices with energy saving bulbs or solar panels to reduce the cost of electricity and the savings can be given to the Police Department to assist in fighting crime. The PSDGO answered in the affirmative. 420. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian noted that Subhead 61510 Rent utilized 38% of the budget and enquired about the residential accommodations. The PSDGO stated that the residential accommodations included the Judges house in Macnamara which is owned by the Government and the rent for the Magistrates house in Macnamara. He further stated that the judge does not get allowances. 421. The Chairman thanked the panel for appearing before the SFC.

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HEAD 115 Present:

DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN RESOURCES

Mr. David Archer (PSDGO) Mrs. Michelle Donovan-Stevens

Permanent

Secretary,

Deputy

Governors

Office

Ag. Director of Human Resources, Department of Human Resource (AgDHR)

Ms. Shavon Henley

Ag. Deputy Director of Human Resources, Department of Human Resources (AgDDHR)

Mrs. Kara Penn-Stoutt

Finance & Planning Officer, Deputy Governors Office (FPODGO)

Ms. Jacquelin Henry

Accounts Manager, Department of Human Resources (AcMDeHR)

422.

The Chairman welcomed the panel from the Department of Human Resources (DeHR) and asked them to state their names and positions for the record to which they complied.

423.

The AgDHR gave a brief presentation on the DeHRs 2011 Work Plan. She stated that as part of their mandate to deliver services in the area of Human Resources (HR) they had conducted training on succession planning and had worked successfully in assisting some ministries and departments in developing their succession plans. She also stated that as part of their wellness and education programme in the Employee Relations Unit they had assisted 260 employees and partnered in a number of workshops. The AgDHR said that the DeHR had also launched the service wide job analysis project to maximise the use of HR resources within the Public Service and explore areas to improve the organisational structure. She also spoke about the !"#$%!&#%&'%"#$%

launch and implementation of the Service Commission Act, the completion of work on the Seamless Transfer Act, and the implementation of BUPA. 424. The Member for the Third District queried whether there were any vacancies in the DeHR. The AgDHR stated that there were six vacancies which were one Assistant Human Resources Manager and one HR Clerk for the Benefits Unit, two Senior Assistant Human Resources Managers and one HR Records Clerk. 425. The Member for the Third District enquired about the number of applications in the DeHR and wondered whether the applicants could be matched to vacant positions. The AgDHR was unable to give an exact number of applications but said that there were in excess of 100 applications in the DeHR. She further stated that matches could not be made as a result of Cabinets decision made in 2010 to implement a service wide hiring freeze and most of the hiring had incurred internally with the exception of Cabinets approval to advertise externally. 426. The Member for the Third District asked whether there were viable candidates among the applicants to fill the post and whether the Department could make representation to Cabinet to hire externally if the positions needed to be filled. The AgDHR stated that there were no viable applicants for the positions that she had previously mentioned. She further stated that the DeHR utilised some of the vacancies when they requested that one post of Human Resources Manager listed under the Payroll Unit be removed as they no longer needed that post and that one of the two vacant positions be utilised to create an additional post of EAP Counsellor to support the Employee Relations Unit. 427. The Member for the Third District asked the AgDHR how the vacancies would impact the functioning of the DeHR. The AgDHR stated that there were two

positions that were critical for the functioning of the Benefits Unit which was responsible for processing all insurance matters for the entire Public Service and their families, calculating retirement benefits for all Public Officers, Police Officers and
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officers who worked in the Statutory Agencies and were retiring. She stated that there was a need to have that unit fully functional to have those services carried out. 428. The Member for the Third District stated that he would like to see some of the persons who were employed to work in some of those areas and urged the DeHR and other Departments in Government to set an example because the private sector could only do their part. He further stated that under normal circumstances he would not advocate for the public sector to grow, but there was a need. 429. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked whether the candidates needed to speak another language to fill the positions to which the AgDHR responded in the negative. He went on to state that the problems we have were that the

candidates did not match the positions advertised. 430. The Member for the Third District enquired about the status of the BUPA Insurance and whether people were any more satisfied with the service that was being granted. The AgDHR replied that they were presently in discussion with BUPA about launching a customer satisfaction survey. She said that from the DeHRs perspective they were fully aware of the concerns about the programme. She further advised that approximately less than 1% of the officers that were enrolled in the insurance programme had withdrawn. The AgDHR stated that in some instances there was a lot of misunderstanding and the transition period from Atlantic Southern to BUPA was not as smooth as it should have been. 431. The AgDHR also advised that efforts were being made to improve some of the concerns that users had made. She said that based on the last report that they had received from BUPA they advised that they had entered into a recent Agreement with Walgreen as an option for filling prescriptions and HRD awaited the official word that it was ready to roll out before they could communicate that information to insured persons. She also informed that BUPA had launched an online portal where each insured person could go online to track information about their claims and the status of their insurance plan.
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432.

The Member for the Sixth District asked whether there was any progress being made regarding hospitals in general. She stated that she had numerous complaints from persons that indicated that the hospitals even those in the BUPA network were not accepting the insurance. She continued by saying that insured persons said they had to pay upfront and they were having problems filing their claims after. The AgDHR advised that there was a list of providers in the BUPA Network on their website. She said that she could not answer specifically about the various complaints as to whether the hospitals or providers were not within the network or whether claims were being filed for item that were not included in the plan.

433.

The Leader of the Opposition (LOP) said that he took interest in the HRD when they brought employees up to speed on the insurance and should be given every possible support. On the question of insurance he stated that he was privileged to sit with the HRD when negotiations took place with BUPA and he saw them at work in the way they battered for the employees. He said that he was not aware then that he would soon experience whether BUPA was good, bad or indifferent. The LOP advised that when he went to Miami to seek medical treatment, he was pleasantly surprised that the hospital that he was referred to took the card and he had no problems. He said that he had heard persons complained about BUPA, but his experience was different. The LOP said that he has to ensure that he kept his card up to date.

434.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian said that it was good to hear the report from the LOP regarding the BUPA insurance, but persons who interacted with him had different views regarding BUPA. He said that the Rotary Club had assisted a young lady with medical expenses in Puerto Rico and BUPA was prepared to cover the cost of the treatment but were not prepared to cover the cost of equipment that she needed to have implanted. He said that he also knew of individuals who were frustrated because there was no one to go to with their issues and concerns about BUPA. He further stated that patients who spoke with hospitals could not get the services they required. He said that during the negotiations he recalled hearing that BUPA sounded like a good deal and came with a good track record, but he was
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concerned about their representation as too many people were complaining. Territorial Member felt that the contract should be looked at as well as the experiences that people had before it expired in April 2013. He also wondered whether there was a local representative on the island. 435. The AgDHR said that the concerns raised by the Members and those that they were aware of would not be taken lightly. She encouraged them to send persons to the DeHR with the specific concerns and details to remedy the situation. The AgDHR further stated that the plan does have exclusions as with any other insurance but they want to ensure that they get the best service based on the commitment that BUPA initially presented. The AgDHR advised that the local agent for BUPA was Hyperion Risk Solutions and the representative on the island was Mr. Martin Cook. Mr. Cooks office can be found at the Folio Building (the old CITCO Building) at the Roundabout in Road Town. 436. The Member for the Fifth District wondered whether that information was made public and whether persons were aware of the local agent. The AgDHR said that there were numerous campaigns throughout the territory and they continue not only to address issues but also to educate persons about preventative measures. She advised that BUPA has an awareness news letter that they release monthly in conjunction with the data that they receive from the DeHR. 437. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that there seems to be a problem with BUPAs claim processing. He said that he understands that the claims were not processed locally and that seems to be one of the major problems with the company. He further stated that doctors and hospitals were complaining that they were not being paid on time. He felt that there should be an office in the territory equipped to process claims. 438. The Member for the Third District enquired as to where persons filed their claims under the Atlantic Southern Insurance Scheme to which the AgDHR replied through the HRD and Alphonso Warner. The AgDHR said that they did not send persons to
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the BUPA local office if they could assist the client. The DeHR would accept the claims and review them to ensure that all the documentation that was need was attached, but they do not process the claims. She further stated that claims could be submitted to BUPA through Mr. Cook at the Folio Office but he did not process them. 439. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked what percentage of claims were rejected, and the number of claims that were filed respectively. The AgDHR said that she would provide that information to the Members. 440. The Member for the First District enquired about the status of the previous Health provided and whether they had tendered a bid. The AgDHR stated that there was a very high level of dis-satisfaction expressed throughout the Service and with their families as it related to the services of Atlantic Southern. Although they had served for ten years, she said that, since January 201, there had been three increases in premiums with no change in benefits. She also advised that they did submit a tender along with four other companies during the tender process. 441. The Minister for Health and Social Development made it clear that he had one concern and that was to ensure that civil servants can access care whenever and wherever needed. 442. The Member for the First District said that during the tender process the history of any company or organisation with regards to service previously rendered to Government must play a significant role when tenders were evaluated. He felt that something should be factored into the tendering process based on performance, and questioned whether this concern was factored in during the recently concluded tendering process to secure the services of a new Health Provider for the Public Service. 443. The Member for the Third District felt, however, that it was a competitive bid and everyone had a chance to submit a proposal and they were not trying to play a blame game.
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444.

The Member for the Sixth District felt that the Government was not getting value for money being charged for BUPA services.

445.

The Member for the Fifth District enquired about the pre-clearance process. The AgDHR stated that the DeHR was not involved with the pre-clearance process but would assist if the need arose.

446.

The Minister for Health and Social Development asked how BUPAs policy should work for the Members of the House. The AgDHR advised that the rates were

applicable to all who opted to enroll in the scheme and that she would send BUPA packets for all the Members of the House. 447. The Member for the Second District made an enquiry about the contribution that was paid to BUPA on a monthly basis. The AgDHR stated that the average monthly cost for government was $320,000 which covered 100% premiums for risk officers and 50% of employee premiums. She also stated that of December, 2011, the payment to BUPA was current. 448. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired about the premiums for retirees and retirees and family. The AgDHR advised that the premiums for the retirees and retirees and family were partially subsidised by Government. On a monthly basis, the Government paid $7.93 per retiree and a total of $1,364 per month. The cost to Government for retiree and family was $21.53 per month per retiree and a total of $538 per month. She stated that the premium for retiree and family was $615 per month. 449. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked how the retirees premium compared to Atlantic Southern to which the AgDHR replied that they paid $408.51 based on the last agreement but she did not have the figures that were proposed from the bid. 450. The LOP noted that the total number of established staff in the DeHR was 41 and asked whether that number included the Human Resources Officers in the Ministries !"#$%!'!%&'%"#$%

and other Departments. The AgDHR advised that the staffing complement of 41 was specifically in the DeHR and did not reflect the Human Resources Manager in the Ministries. he LOP stated that in his experience the officers outside the DeHR were not up to speed and needed to tighten up. He felt that they do not keep the DeHR up to date when certain policies need to be carried out. He stated that there were branches of PWD and PHD in Virgin Gorda and gave an example where two officers who completed more than ten years of service had died suddenly, and their relatives were told that they could not receive any benefits on their behalf. The LOP stated that this would not have happened if the officers had been transferred from their Nonestablished posts to the Permanent and Pensionable Establishment after they had served ten years and they would have been entitled to their benefits. He said that the DeHR were not made aware that those two persons were eligible and arrangements were being made to remedy the situation but elections occurred. He went on to say that he has to enquire whether the action was continued in the Ministry concerned to ensure that the families receive the benefits they were entitled to. 451. The Minister for Health and Social Development in agreement with the LOP said that daily paid employees should be treated as equals. He said that the policy was not a one off arrangement and that it was to continue indefinitely, but some officers were still not transferred over to P&P. The AgDHR assured the Members that the DeHR was aware of the policy and that they would continue to work with the Ministries and Departments to correct those issues. Subhead 60540 Housing Assistance 452. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about Subhead 60540 Housing Assistance and asked which officers received housing allowance. The AgDHR

replied that there were a total of fifty five (55) contract officers that receive housing allowance.

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Subhead 61220 Electricity 453. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian also enquired about Subhead 61220 Electricity and asked whether the consumption was based on metered costs or a flat rate. He also asked how many officers resided at the Admiralty Estate Units and whether they received a housing allowance. The AgDHR advised that electricity was based on metered costs and that three officers resided at Admiralty Estate but was uncertain how long they occupied the residences. She further stated that they did not receive a housing allowance, but contributed 15% of their salary toward rent. 454. The PSDGO also informed that the DGO paid $10,308.60 monthly for nine apartments. He said that not all the apartments were desired by officers but the present occupancy consisted of two teachers, HLSCC occupied two at a cost of $1,000 each per month, DeHR, Education and T&CP each occupied one, and two were empty. 455. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian said that the Government should not enter into any contract agreement to rent residential accommodations and should instead rent based on availability. He stated that he hoped that the arrangement was coming to an end soon. 456. The Member for the First District interjected that the contents of the Lease agreement should be read first before any unfounded conclusions are drawn. He also noted that there was a proposal that came from Admiralty that should be presented with the current lease. 457. The Member for the Second District made an enquiry as to the present status of the DHR and the DDHR and why they were still acting. The PSDGO advised that when the question was raised last year that he made a commitment to monitor their growth and success and no one can say that the two individuals have not worked extremely hard and deserved to be confirmed. He stated that he was convinced that they have reached their pinnacle for confirmation and they were presently going through the process to ensure their confirmation in the posts. He also said that the performance
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evaluations were completed and the recommendation was being made following the normal process. 458. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian said that he was amazed at how long officers acted before they were confirmed. On a different note he enquired about the nine employment contracts in 2011, eight of which were overseas and one a local contract and asked what efforts were being made to ensure that locals filled positions that were awarded externally. The AgDHR stated that five of the nine officers on contracts were teachers, and the other areas were environmental health. She said that they had partnered with the Environmental Health Division to ensure that the youth understand the importance of the field since most of those positions were contracted and the other contracted position was in T&CP. The AgDHR further explained that overall there had been a significant decrease in overseas contracts since 2006. She said that the high number of belongers on contracts in 2006 were probably due to a number of retirees retuning on contract terms. 459. The Member for the First District asked whether the positions were filled by national scholarship students from the Ministry of Education Scholarship Programme. The AgDHR said that the reduction in contracts from 2006 to present were clearly as a result of the strategic training and development of nationals through the Ministry of Education and Culture National Scholarship Programme as well as the Training Division. She stated over the past three years officers were sent to train in areas based on the needs of the service. 460. The Minister for Education and Culture also queried whether the DeHR were making efforts for locals to understudy those persons on contracts in the various areas they were contracted on. The AgDHR in her response said that efforts were made to ensure that the number of expatriate contracts was consistently reduced through the training and development programmes in place for local officers. She said that

training was based on the priority areas in the public service and the priority areas

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linked to contracts. The AgDHR advised that the DeHR does not award contracts in the Education, Police and medical fields. 461. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired about how contract officers performance was tested to ensure that the government received value for money. The AgDHR stated that contract employees go through the same appraisal process as regular employees, but they do not receive increments. She stated however, that their gratuities were tied to performance and the successful completion of their contract. 462. The Minister for Education and Culture asked whether a new Director of Public Prosecutions was contracted and whether that officers performance had been evaluated and the government was satisfied with the performance. He also asked whether there was a succession plan in place for someone in that office to take over when the contract expired. The AgDHR said that the Director of Public Prosecutions was contracted about two years ago, but she could not speak to the officers performance evaluation and departments succession plan at the time. 463. The Minister for Education and Culture made an enquiry about the retirement process to which the AgDHR responded that an officer could retire when he/she reached the mandatory retirement age of sixty years or twenty five (25) years of service whichever came first. 464. The Minister for Education and Culture asked whether the age of an officer played a role when recruiting on contract and whether it was good practice to recruit persons over the retirement age at this time. He also wondered whether there were any expatriate contract officers that presently fitted that category. The AgDHR stated that appointments were based on merits and qualifications and it was not a common practice to recruit persons over the age of sixty years but she was aware of at least one officer who was recruited over the retirement age. She further stated that the officer was recruited as the Deputy Chief Planner in T&CP.

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465.

The Minister for Education and Culture requested information regarding the minimum requirements of the post and whether any officer within the service could have filled that post. The AgDHR advised that the position was advertised and went through the recruitment process and was considered by the PSC and the appointment was made by the Governor. She stated that to her knowledge there were no internal or local candidates that matched the requirements for the post. The AgDHR further shared the extensive list of minimum requirements for the post from the job description.

466.

The Minister for Education and Culture felt that the job description was designed specifically for someone and it was tantamount to denying a local from getting the post. He felt that based on the requirements locals would not have qualified. He further requested information regarding the job description for the Chief Planner and the Ag. DHR said that she would provide that information to the Members. Subhead 62100 Recruitment Costs

467.

The Member for the Eighth District enquired about Subhead 62100 Recruitment Costs and asked whether the DeHR went out to recruit someone for the post. The PSDGO advised that the post was advertised multiply times and they tried to engage the services of one gentleman but they were unable to bring him on board. The PSDGO said that they will continue to dialogue and engage persons with those qualifications.

468.

The Member for the First District stated that he admired the PS, the AgDHR and the AgDDHR as they worked beyond the call of duty. However, he noticed that when a few of our local people got the opportunity to reach the top, they got the mentality that no other local person was fit to be promoted to the level where they have reached. This course of action leads to the elimination and frustration of our people. He said that we should stop contributing to our own demise.

469.

The Minister for Health and Social Development asked whether there were any other Government occupied buildings beside the CAB that seemed to be experiencing
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mould problems.

The AgDHR stated that the reports claimed to link the mould

problems to the CAB and there were officers in other departments that claimed to have been impacted by mould. She said that the DeHR remained concerned about meeting the health and safety standards within the Public Service. Subhead 60520 Supernumerary and Temporary Staff 470. The AgDHR noted the reduction in Subhead 60520 Supernumerary and Temporary Staff. She explained that within the 2012 Estimates the vote was reduced to $800,000 and the vote covered the Summer Employment Programme for college and high school students, salaries for public officers on study leave and the Cadet Programme. She said that based on the funds that were allocated and taken into consideration the applications to continue to develop public officers especially within the priority areas, it would not be sufficient to continue to meet the salaries of public officers or carry out any of the other services under the vote. The AgDHR requested that $150,000 be reallocated from Head 120 Training Division Subhead 62910 Training Expenses Training to Supernumerary and Temporary Staff. Subhead 62410 Assistance Grants 471. The AgDHR also noted that Subhead 62410 Assistance Grants was reduced to $73,100 from $90,611 and felt that it would not be enough to accommodate the fifty four officers that commuted from the Sister Islands. 472. The Member for the Eighth District queried the use of Lotus Notes and wondered whether there was a policy regarding Lotus Notes. The PSDGO advised that Lotus Notes should only be used for Governments business and officers were warned about the usage through a message from the DGO. He said that officers who violate the policy would be accountable to the DGO. 473. The Chairman thanked the panel for their presentation and for addressing the questions raised by Members.

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HEAD 120 Present:

TRAINING DIVISION

Mr. David Archer

Permanent Secretary, Deputy Governors Office (PSDGO)

Mrs. Michelle Donovan-Stevens

Ag. Director of Human Resources Department of Human Resources (AgDHR)

Ms. Shavon Henley

Ag. Deputy Director of Human Resources, Department of Human Resources (AgDDHR)

Mrs. Marsha Smith Mrs. Kara Penn-Stoutt

Ag. Chief Training Officer, Training Division (AgCTO) Finance & Planning Officer, Deputy Governors Office (FPODGO)

474.

The Chairman welcomed the panel and asked them to state their names and positions for the record to which they complied.

475.

The AgCTO made a brief presentation which outlined a few key areas of the Training Divisions 2011 Work plan. She said that they had completed their task to assist line managers and HRM with identifying their training needs and with input from PSs and HODs they had compiled a training list for the entire Public Service. They also completed twenty-one of thirty staff development workshops which were administered through in-service training programmes despite having challenges with their facilities with the Ward Building, conducted specialised training which utilised distance/flexible learning training such as the Chartered Management Institute (CMI), conducted a Customer Service Training Workshop for the MOF and its Departments. The AgCTO also spoke about the Training Divisions study leave and scholarship programme which allowed them to make timely arrangements for their students through which seventeen (17) Public Officers completed studies in 2011 and four

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students were approved to pursue studies, in 2011 of which three left in Fall 2011 and one left Spring 2012. 476. The Member for the First District queried whether the AgCTO was being confirmed to her post. He said that they were assured during the last budget that the AgCTO was to be confirmed. The PSDGO stated that the AgDHR would make a

recommendation for the AgCTOs confirmation to the post. The AgDHR added that they went through the performance review process and after consultation with the PSDGO the recommendation was prepared for AgCTOs confirmation in her position. 477. The Member for the First District enquired with keen interest about the number of officers who currently studied in the legal areas which was one of the targeted areas of study for the territory. He noted that given the high demand for officers in the legal departments in the Service whether a policy was approved and in place or was being worked on, for officers who studied in the legal areas to ensure that they would return to one of the legal departments to take up duties and wondered whether they would be released from their positions in the respective Ministry or department to allow for forward planning. The AgCTO stated that law students had been

communicated to regarding their placement and there would be documentation going forward in 2012. 478. The AgDHR further explained that officers who were away on study leave would remain in their substantive positions until they completed their studies and returned and were given an official appointment into a new position. She further stated that until the official appointment occurred, officers appointed to act in the officers on study leave post would remain acting and the post would be advertised. 479. The AgDHR also stated that in terms of placement they worked closely with reintegrating officers into the service upon successful completion of their studies. She advised that as of 2011 the DeHR had placed five legal graduates placed within
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the Public Service in legal departments, and one of the five was a national scholarship recipient. 480. The Member for the First District wondered whether it was not a waste of tax payers money to study in an area and then be absorbed into their substantive post instead of the area they were trained in. He also asked how the AgCTO they intended to go about training for this year with a reduction in the budget given that training must take place within the Service. 481. The AgCTO stated that although they had a reduced budget, they would have to work with it and be creative with the way training was conducted. She said that they might have to conduct more on the job training rather than abroad training. The AgCTO also said that they would also look at creative new ways to generate revenue for the department to assist with their budget. She advised that they moved into a new facility at the Betteto Frett Building across from the CAB and would propose renting one of the three conference rooms to generate revenue. The AgCTO also advised that for two consecutive years in 2009 and 2010 they conducted the Train the Trainer Programme to train Civil Servants to take on the role of trainer/facilitator to reduce the costs of hiring external facilitators to conduct training. 482. The Minister for Health and Social Development sought clarification on the column headed job position held on the document titled Student List 2010-2014. The AgCTO advised that the job positions listed were the officers substantive posts before they proceeded on study leave. 483. The Minister for Health and Social Development also queried what happened when an officer failed an exam and had to re-sit it to which the AgCTO replied that expenses to repeat an examination were not funded by Government and the officer would be responsible to pay to repeat the examination.

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484.

The Minister for Health and Social Development queried one particular individual on the list and asked about his status. The AgCTO advised that the individual did not complete his studies and had asked to be deferred.

485.

The Minister for Health and Social Development further asked whether any officer on study leave could ask to be deferred. The AgDHR explained that each Public Officer that accepted a Government scholarship had a bond obligation. She said that when they failed to complete their studies unless for medical purposes or had expressed a personal situation that made them return to the Service and their intention was to continue their studies, they would be allowed a period to complete their studies. She said that failure to complete was not taken lightly and there must be specific reasons why it would occur. The AgDHR said that deferment would usually be for a year after which it would be reviewed. She also stated that there were no penalties that

were enforced for officers who did not complete their studies, but each case was handled based on the details of the case, but it was very rare for officers to return and not complete their studies. 486. The AgDHR said that they would provide an updated list of students which would provide a better understanding of each officers case. The AgCTO added that

sometimes officers had very specific personal reasons why they could not complete their studies, and they would not be able to reveal that sensitive information. She further explained that, if officers did not return to the Territory after completing their studies to serve their bonding time, they would be contacted and given an option to return home or, in cases where they refused, they would be referred to the AG for collection of the bond. She advised that, since 2011, the bond provided for two sureties but prior to that it was one. 487. The Member for the First District commended the AgCTO and Training Division for tidying and tightening up the bond process for public officers proceeding on study leave.

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488.

The Member for the Fifth District asked the panel to explain under what circumstances a student might be suspended. The AgCTO advised that a student could be suspended for different reasons, and it was dealt with on a case by case basis depending on the request of the officer and the needs of the government and the Territory. The AgDHR stated that if an officer requested additional time and was approved or denied, the Department of Human Resources (DeHR) would liaise with the Ministry/Department from which the officer left or where they would be expected to return, to understand how the delayed return would impact the

Ministry/Department before sending information forward to the PSC. 489. The Member for the Fifth District felt that sometimes the consideration was merely given to the department and not the future development of the officer, the department or the country. 490. The Minister for Education and Culture asked the AgCTO to explain the study leave process in the Training Division from application to completion. The AgCTO

advised that every year a priority list was generated and approved based on information received from PSs and HODs. She said that officers who were interested in pursuing studies would then apply according to the priority training list. She stated that, to be considered, officers should be permanent and pensionable in the Service, have at least three years of service and no disciplinary proceedings pending. The application must be commented on by the supervisor, the HOD and the PS prior to submission to the Training Division. Following receipt of the application, the

AgCTO would make a recommendation and then it would be forwarded to the AgDHR for her recommendation. The application would then be forwarded to the Study Leave Assessment Board (SLAB) for their recommendations which would be based on the key priority areas. She stated that PSC would then be consulted and the Governor would give final approval after which the Training Division would communicate the decision to the officer. The Training Division would also manage the administrative process once the officer proceeded on study leave.

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491.

The Minister for Education and Culture asked whether there was career guidance in the process to determine why the officers selected their fields of study. The AgCTO confirmed that there was career guidance which was provided by an officer in the DeHR. She also stated that as of 2012 the applicants that became eligible based on the priority list would be interviewed to get a better understanding of the individual.

492.

The Minister for Education encouraged the AgCTO to ensure that those who applied wanted to study into the particular field they indicated on their applications to benefit themselves, and for the development of the service and country. He felt that while the department should strive to train as many officers as they could, some officers get several opportunities and others do not get any and everyone should benefit from training.

493.

The AgCTO stated that the Training Divisions study leave programme was independent from that of the MECs national scholarship programme. She advised that since taking up the appointment as AgCTO her goal has been to dialogue with officers to determine what they were interested in studying and not was on the priority list. She said that she would never entertain officers who wanted to train for training sake.

494.

The Member for the Fifth District stated that she appreciated the comments shared by the AgCTO, but sounded a note of caution. She said that persons should be encouraged through training to advance themselves. The Member further stated that officers may not always be certain what they want to do initially and may not see the long term picture. She felt that they should not be necessarily penalised for changing a programme but the process should be balanced on case by case basis. She said that sometimes the way in which students were handled hurt them and turned them off which caused them not to return and the territory has suffered.

495.

The Member for the First District noted that training had been working to reduce the number of contract workers in Government and wondered whether there was a formal way of logging who applied and who would be interviewed and by whom. The
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AgCTO stated that the SLAB would conduct the interviews. The AgDHR added that the concerns raised were noted and that the DeHR was accountable for monitoring the progress of students and to ensure officers continue to train in the areas that they agreed to be trained in, and not changed their studies without consultation or notification to the AgCTO or the DeHR. 496. The Minister for Health and Social Development wondered whether it was a practice to send someone on study leave if the government wanted to get rid of that officer. The AgCTO responded in the negative. 497. The Minister for Education and Culture asked whether the Training Division looked at areas of deficiencies in the service to try to help officers. The AgCTO advised that the priority training list was comprised of areas submitted by the PSs and HODs and she could not determine whether or not HODs had identified persons to send on leave. She said there were short term courses that officers could enroll in to help them develop in the Service. The AgDHR stated that within the DeHR they offered career planning workshops to begin dialogue with officers who want to develop themselves. 498. The Member for the First District felt that since the priority list was not agreed upon by Cabinet there was a disconnect as to what the political directorate may want for the future of the Territory. He asked whether they felt they had sufficient funds to train anyone based on the budget. The AgCTO stated that based on the priority needs of the service they did not have sufficient funds but they would further prioritise the priorities based on the budget. She said it may be only one person for this year. 499. The Member for the First District asked whether the efforts and work done by the MECs National Scholarship Programme had significantly assisted the process to find the man power needed in the Territory and whether the information that the MEC provide to the DeHR was helpful in determining whether or not contracts would be renewed. The AgDHR advised that the graduates from the national scholarship

programme have assisted in filling some key positions in the Public Service. She further stated that the information received from MEC was looked at in alignment
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with the current contracts in the service or any vacancy that existed. The AgCTO reminded Members that the student list would be revised and be resubmitted to the Members. 500. The Member for the First District commended the officers for the work they did and thank them for their good work. 501. The Chairman thanked the panel for their presentation and for addressing the questions raised by the Members.

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HEAD 130

DEPARTMENT OF DISASTER MANAGEMENT

Present: Mr. David Archer Ms. Sharleen Dabreo Permanent Secretary, DGO (PSDGO) Director, Disaster Management (DDM)

Mrs. Kara Penn-Stoutt

Finance and Planning Officer, DGO (FPODGO)

502.

The Chairman asked the Panel to state their names and positions for the record to which the panel complied.

503.

The DDM stated that Members had been provided with a report from her Department. She further explained that the report provided a summary of the Departments expenditure for the year 2011 and it also indicated how the Department anticipated to spend the allocation that would be allotted to them for the year 2012. Page two of the report that had been provided highlighted that in 2011 the Department had been allotted $832,400 and 92% of those funds were utilised. She further stated that within the report a chart was created to show where those expenses were logged.

504.

In relation to revenue the DDM explained that over the years the Department had been trying its best to identify projects in the Caribbean where they could access funding. During the past three years, the Department began to partner with the Town and Country Planning Department to provide a Hazard Vulnerability Assessment which was a scientific basis for the Department to provide recommendations for planning applications. The DDM informed that currently a fee of $75 was being charged for Hazard Vulnerability Assessment. She further informed that one assessment was completed in approximately four hours and a detailed report was produced. She stated that it was never the Departments intention to become a burden
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to the developers as to how the data collected from the assessment would be used however the basis for providing the hazard vulnerability assessment was to give the architects and engineers some indication of the conditions that they would encounter when they were developing a site. The fee which was applied to the hazard vulnerability assessment allowed for the reports to be valuable. The DDM informed that a new Disaster Management Bill had been submitted to Cabinet during 2011 and she hoped that the bill would receive its first reading in the House of Assembly. She also informed that within the Bill there was provision for a fee schedule.

505.

The DDM stated that in relation to the Departments magazine $4000 was collected in donations. She also informed that the actual magazine was published at a cost of about $7000 and in relation to funding from the Departments donor partners the Department secured $96, 126.86. The Departments funding sources were mainly from the Department of International Development (DIFID), Caricom agencies and through the Departments agreement with the Caribbean Disaster Emergency Management Agency (CDEMA).

506.

The DDM further stated that the report also highlighted some of the Departments major successes for 2011. One being the national exercise which focused specifically on testing plans for schools and it was quite successful. She notified members that the Department was able to develop the first school health and safety policy throughout the Caribbean which was accompanied by an assessment tool which allowed for the grading or annual certification of schools. During 2011, the Department also completed a hazardous materials plan and, in addition to the said plan, the Department also completed another plan which focused on mass fertility which was based on the Pan-American Organisations Guidelines.

507.

The DDM stated that the Departments hazard atlas received additional updates and the Department was able to provide developers with recommendations for cuts. Based on the geology and hazard data, the Department was able to provide developers with
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an idea of what would be the recommended cuts to allow for less retaining structures and also to allow for the safety of their development. During 2011, the Department spent a lot of time working with heavy equipment operators, planners and contractors and a series of professional workshops were conducted. The Department also completed disaster management plans for two sister islands Anegada and Jost Van Dyke and they had hoped to complete the disaster management plan for Virgin Gorda during 2012. Under the ACPAU a proposal was submitted and the British Virgin Islands was selected a pilot state. She further explained that the proposal was a disaster risk reduction project which was tailored particularly for the island of Anegada. The Department had been looking at implementation of a small project in Anegada to study coastal erosion matters that were occurring on the western side of the island.

508.

The DDM further stated that the Department had been asked to prepare and present a presentation at the OCTs meeting in Brussels. After the completion of the presentation the Department received positive feedback. The Department continued to work with the Hamilton Lavity Stoutt Community College in providing the Safe Building sessions for contractors. During 2011 a series of the three workshops were conducted and attracted many persons from throughout the region. The workshops were particularly in the area of strategic planning.

509.

The DDM further stated that the Department had held its first ever disaster management fair and the Department had partnered with a number of different Government and private sector agencies. The Department also produced a 96 page magazine which was circulated throughout the Caribbean as well as locally and positive feedback was received from the said endeavour. She further informed that the Department had prepared a number of other public education materials which included the Departments first preschool activity book which would be distributed to schools during 2012. The Department also completed a promotional video which they

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felt was necessary for persons to have an understanding of the functions and objectives of the Department.

510.

The DDM stated that the Department faced challenges during 2011 and in particular the Department continued to face many challenges as it related to the building where the Department was housed. She further explained that the said building was constructed in the early seventies and that she could not have given an exact date about its construction as there were not initial plans for the building. She also stated that the Department had been provided with the sum of $50 thousand dollars about two years ago which allowed the Department to complete the architectural, structural and geotechnical studies on the building. The Department submitted the said plans and studies/report to Cabinet. She informed that the plans and studies were accepted by Cabinet and Cabinet was informed that the cost to construct a new building would be $4.3 million.

511.

The DDM respectfully asked that the SFC considered the approval of $2.9 million towards the first phase of the building project which included the lower ground floor, the ground floor and the required retaining structures.

512.

The DDM stated that as it related to other challenges faced by the Department, the Department continued to face challenges with the incorporation of a disaster risk management within the economic and financial sectors. The Department felt that the said challenge was as a result of the lack of financial regulations to support the activity and the had included some recommendations and provisions in the Disaster Management Bill which the Department hoped would be accepted by the House of Assembly.

513.

The DDM emphasised that there was the need to increase the level of awareness throughout the private sector as the Department had assessed their level of preparedness in comparison to that of the public sector and the private sectors level
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of preparedness was below the threshold that the Department would have liked for it to be.

514.

The DDM stated that the Department continued to have limitations in funding to execute significant projects therefore the Department had to turn to a number of its regional partners which called for officers within the Department to develop their skills in proposal writing. She also stated that the training for proposal training was completed and she was of the opinion that the staff had been doing exceptionally well in trying to attract a number of regional projects.

515.

The DDM stated that as it related to Human Resources particularly external resources there were a number of responses from Departments that they were unable to complete tasks because there was a lack of human resources. For example in 2011 during the emergency shelter inspections the works were completed by the Public Works Department in assessing the shelters. She stated that the works were completed late and the Department had never received the public health inspection reports on the shelters.

516.

The DDM stated that for 2012 the Department was allocated $803,300 thousand and the report outlined how the money allocated would be utilised with an expenditure chart.

Subhead 60300 - Staff 517. The DDM stated that as it related to staff allotment currently the Department had 12 officers and one non established employee. There were also two vacant positions. One position was expected to be filled in a few months and the other post was an Administrative Officer position which the Department had asked to be upgraded to a Senior Administrative Officer position and the said upgrade was approved in the Departments budget for 2012. The report also comprised of an organisational chart

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for the Department. The chart indicated the positions which had been filled and those that were vacant.

Subhead 61120 Books and Subscriptions 518. The DDM stated that the money allocated under the said Subhead was not only utilised for subscriptions for magazines but it was also utilised for the Departments annual subscriptions for their weather services. She explained that from as far back as the early 1990s the Department had been receiving weather subscriptions from Wilkins Weather and Impact Weather Services. She stated that the Department continued to pay the charges for that subscription annually. She stated that she would have to indicate where the charges would have to be applied. She further stated that the Departments project expenses under the said Subhead were $12, 965 and the Department had been allotted $7,700. Lastly, she stated that the Ministry of Finance would have the expectation of reallocating funds to the said Subhead.

Subhead 61210 - Telephones 519. The DDM stated that the Department had a number of leased circuits which currently allowed for the operation of the Departments weather stations and some of their siren networks. She further explained that there were allocations that were provided for cellular telephones and lines within the office for satellite phones, ADSL Links and allowances for members of staff.

Subhead 61220 Electricity 520. The DDM stated that as it related to electricity the Department had been allotted $21, 700. She explained that the Department had decreased its electricity consumption significantly. She mentioned that the staff had been helpful in turning off lights and AC units when they were not in use. She emphasised that the Department was doing its best to ensure that they remained within the budget as it related to electricity expenses.

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Subhead 61230 Water 521. The DDM explained that the Departments allocation for water was not a large sum because the Department was dependant on water from the cistern. She stated that there were some challenges with receiving street water therefore the Department was heavily dependent on always having the cistern filled with water to allow for the operation of their building.

Subhead 61400 Repairs and Maintenance. 522. The DDM stated that the Department had two vehicles. She stated that she observed that the allocation under the Subhead had been decreased and she foresaw the need to reallocate some fund to the Subhead to cover the costs of maintenance and fuel for the two vehicles. She notified members that both vehicles remained at the Departments compound after business hours and they were not assigned to any officer within the Department. She further explained that one of the vehicles was used specifically for heavy maintenance work within the field and the other was used for office work and to load and unload items. She also explained that under the said Subhead it was also utilised to cover the costs for the Departments sirens, weather stations and anything that dealt with the Departments operational aspect. She stated that the funds under the Subhead were decreased significantly as the Department had asked for $21, 900 but was only allotted $14,600.

Subhead 61620 Local Travel 523. The DDM stated that the said Subhead covered allowances for staff. She emphasised that allowances were only paid to managers and one other officer. She informed that the Department had 4 managers and a DDDM. She also stated that there was one officer that had been given local travel allowance because of the nature of their job.

Subhead 62400 Contributions to Overseas Organisations 524. The DDM stated that, as it related to the Departments contribution to CDEMA, the contributions increased in 2011 through an approval by the Heads of State and the
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increase was $1,106 for the British Virgin Islands contribution. She stated that under the Subhead the Department had been allotted $17, 500 for 2012 but she anticipated that they would have paid a little less because the Department had paid for a period from August to December which amounted to $8,506.

525.

The DDM stated that the Department operated under a comprehensive disaster management strategy and programming framework and in addition to that they had the monitoring, evaluation and reporting framework which provided an automated mechanism which allowed for the assessment of the Department. It allowed the Department to track the work of the Department and link it to the officers performance agreement. She informed that there were 5 programme areas within the Department and a summary of each component was provided within the report that was provided. She also informed that each program area was headed by a manager and supported by an officer.

Subhead 62550 Work Programme Expenses 526. The DDM stated that the 2012 work programme allocation was where majority of the Departments work was covered. She stated that under the said Subhead for 2012 the Department had been allocated $93, 100. Under the said Subhead the Department also complemented the work programme allocations with funding that was obtained from regional organisations. She stated that in addition to the $114, 000 that was allocated under the Subhead in 2011 the Department was fortunate to received $96, 000 from regional organisations specifically for the activities that were defined in the Departments strategy. She stated that the Department reported on the said strategy to Cabinet every year through the Departments annual report.

Subhead 62600 Insurance 527. The DDM stated that the Department had a warehouse for several years. She stated that the warehouse had served the Department well and they were able to retrofit the warehouse. At present the Department was dealing with the insurance coverage on the
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warehouse. The insurance premium cost $900 however the Subhead was only allotted $700 dollars therefore they would need to reallocate some funds to the said Subhead.

Subhead 62620 Simulation Exercises 528. The DDM stated that the Department conducted 4 simulation exercises in 2011. She stated that the funds allocated under the Subhead could not cover the cost for any of the simulation exercises. She further stated that the funds were used to support many of the operational aspects of the EOC such as topping up of services and ensuring that the exercises were executed. She further stated that because the fund for the simulation exercises over the years was low the Department had been partnering with a number of external agencies. She further stated that every year there was a full scale exercise and for 2012 the Department had hoped to have the hospital test their evacuation procedures and also to have some work done with the Ports Authority in relation to the evacuation of cruise ships.

Subhead 62625 Emergency Response 529. The DDM stated that $7,300 had been allocated to the said Subhead. The Department utilised the said Subhead to draw down on resources when the Territory was affected by any hazard impacts.

Subhead 62630 Purchase of Emergency Supplies 530. The DDM stated that the $7,300 allocated under this Subhead allowed the department to replenish their stock in the warehouse on an annual basis.

531.

The DDM stated that information was included in the report on the Departments capital submission. There was one capital request for 2012 and it was for a new EOC. The DDM had previously indicated that the building would cost $4.3 million to complete the construction. She informed that the new EOC facility would operate as offices for the Department and for the operations of the national emergency operations centre. She stated that the Department had worked with the Public Works
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Department to complete the drawings for the building which she distributed for the Members perusal.

532.

The building was approximately 17, 762 square feet. The technical and engineering drawings were completed by a firm from Puerto Rico and they had specifically designed the structure to withstand earthquakes of a particular magnitude as well as looking at the impact of wind on the structure. The DDM informed the Committee that the engineering drawings had been presented to the Department and the engineers were asked to try and design the structure so that the Department did not have to be relocated while the new EOC was being built. She stated that a new technique called micro-piling was being applied which allowed for the Department to remain in the old structure while the new structure was being erected. Lastly, she stated that it was the Departments intention to demolish the existing structure. She then informed that approval was granted from Cabinet for the drawings and they then had to be submitted to the Town and Country Planning Department for approval which was granted. She then asked that the SFC approved $2.9 million to begin phase one of the new EOC Project.

533.

The DDM then explained that the current condition of the EOC building was extremely deplorable and it created and continued to create a number of challenges for the Department. She informed that members of staff had to be removed from the basement area and evidence was provided by the photographs that were show in the report. She also stated that there were lightning strikes on the building which caused significant damage to the Departments electrical equipment. She further explained that the roof on the second floor of the building particularly in her office was leaking significantly. On many occasions the Department had worked with the Town and Country Planning Department to have the roof patched however, she was of the opinion that the building had served its time and at some particular point it would not be usable any longer. She stated that they had seen evidence of structural failures and also evidence of flooding and other problems with the building.
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534.

The DDM stated that the report had shown photographs which outlined the internal and external conditions of the building. Page 18 of the report highlighted a list of the reports and papers that were submitted to Cabinet and decisions were made on the said reports and papers in 2011. She stated that accompanying the report was a copy of the approval letter from the Town and Country Planning Department, some conditions for development from the Fire and Rescue Services and a copy of the Cabinet extract on the national emergency centre submissions.

535.

The Member for the Third District queried whether a liability factor was attached to the Hazard Vulnerability assessment conducted by the Department.

536.

The DDM explained that when applications for development were submitted to the Town and Country Planning Department there were some specific indicators which the Department would look at, such as the slope of the recommended cut which would be seen through the architectural drawing, the other indicator would be whether the particular development was located in a highly vulnerable area such as costal zones or within an area where landslides have occurred in the past. She further stated that a recommendation was made to any developer for them to visit the Department and apply for a hazard vulnerability assessment to be completed on their development. The hazard vulnerability assessment was based on data which the Department had been collecting since 1999 and it was quite detailed. The results of the assessment would provide an indication as to whether there was a particular condition with the geology of the area for development would require for the area to be properly engineered. She further informed that what had been seen in majority of the applications that had been submitted to the Department was that there were ghut layers that were in some of the parcels of land and they were not evidence in the cadastral survey. She stated that the problem stemmed from when the flyover was conducted the vegetation was too thick and they were not able to capture that a ghut was located in the area. Therefore in some instances they had to physically go to the
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site and work with other Departments to conduct drainage plans to define the drainage for the area.

537.

The DDM further stated that with the data collected the Town and Country Planning Department made recommendations as to whether there was need for erosion plans or sedimentation factors or whether there was a requirement for the developer to have particular setbacks from the edge of ghuts. She further stated that through working along with the Planning Authority the Department found that there was a lot of success in terms of guiding developers in the right direction for the overall success of their development. She also stated that in terms of the liability clause she would have said that there was not a liability factor within the assessment however the data that was collected was scientific data which was collected from actual studies that had been conducted by scientists and actual applications. She informed that in 2010 when there was the significant flooding the scientists were brought to verify where the landslides occurred was where they had recommended that the landslides would occur and when the layers were matched they matched perfectly.

538.

The Member for the Third District stated if the report produced had shown that there was no eminent danger of a landslide at the time of a developers development and the developer went ahead and built a structure and then a landslide occurred how was the Government suppose to avoid litigation in such a matter. The DDM stated that none of the Departments reports actually gave any definitive statement.

539.

The Member for the Third District stated that if the Department prepared reports and these reports indicated ghuts, and on a subsequent report that was prepared for development no ghuts were indicated; it could reasonably be interpreted that there were no ghuts in the area for development. However, if after the construction of the development a ghut occurred, and it was determined that a ghut did at one time exist what would be the position of the DDM.

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540.

The DDM stated that there are instances where such a scenario could be present because the geological formation may not allow for a definitive cut to be seen until the site is actually cut and then the formation of the rocks would be observed which would indicate that there is some level of susceptibility for landslides.

541.

The Member for the Third District queried why the Hazard Vulnerability Assessment isnt conducted by a consultant who would be hired by the architect or the owner who would normally have liability insurance. He stated that the way the assessment was presently done exposed the Government to liability.

542.

The DDM stated that the purpose of the study was to give a developer a recommendation on specific sites that have been identified based on certain factors that there were at risk for landslides. She informed that report was never submitted where an open statement was made indicating that the site was safe. The Departments recommendations on many of the applications if not all of the applications was that the developers submissions needed to be assessed by an engineer, the footing needed to be assess by an engineer and when the cuts were completed it was the Departments recommendation that the developer ensured that the Public Works Department was available to assess the conditions of the cut. She also stated that what the Department was supporting with the report went specifically to the Town and Country Planning Department and the agents would say that based upon their study the site has certain risks and those risks should be taken into consideration by the developers architect and engineer. She further stated that the report gave specific recommendations that the Town and Country Planning Department made. If there was evidence of a ghut in the location the Department would visit the site and they would recommend to the developer that the ghut be surveyed because they would want to understand the characteristics and width of the ghut and lastly the level of erosion of the ghut from rainfall over the years.

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543.

The Member for the Third District enquired as to whether the stage at which the Department conducted their report was not too late and whether the report should have been conducted at the sub division of the property stage.

544.

The DDM replied yes the stage where the report was to be conducted was at the subdivision stage however there were very few subdivisions which remained and would allow the Department to incorporate such factors. She stated that the area which the Department was paying attention to were areas in Carrot Bay and the Hawks Nest Area where there were very large areas of land which had not been subdivided. Lastly, she emphasised that ideal time to conduct the study was before the subdivision stage. She stated that what the Department would have liked was when the regulation for Town Planning were actually produced the Department made recommendations for when the subdivisions were carried out the ghut layers were actually taken out as a lot and not included in the parcel.

545.

The second recommendation the Department made to the Town and Country Planning Department was that the hazard vulnerability assessment be conducted on every site. She stated that it was not the departments intentions to continue to perform those detailed assessments unless there was an agent that was unable to do so. The DDM also stated that the Department wanted to reach the stage where they could produce a hazard atlas and any architect or engineer whether they were in the business or real estate could actually look at the atlas and define whether the particular location was susceptible to particular hazards and state what the recommendations were. She stated for that reason was why the Department defined what cut should be for specific slopes because the Department faced challenges such as persons building their footings in ghuts which they felt were dry ghuts and therefore would not be susceptible to significant flooding.

546.

The Member for the Third District made an enquiry into what the Department accomplished by conducting meetings with excavator operators etc.
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547.

The DDM stated that one of the challenges the Department faced especially on steep areas was the type of cut that was done. They found that in many cases the cuts were too large and some of the cuts were badly done and the Department was trying to have the contractors understand that when they cut a site they needed to pay attention to specific characteristics of the rocks. Contractors were taken to sites that had good cuts and sites that had bad cuts. She further stated that this was actually the Departments second workshop with contractors and it was in an effort for contractors to understand that if they made a cut and they foresaw a problem they were to refer that problem to either the architect or the engineer where an assessment could be completed. Lastly, she stated that the Department found that some of the cuts were excessive and they required some extremely high and long retaining structures and the Department was seeing the result of the poor construction of those retaining structures as well.

548.

The Member for the Third District stated that the Government was responsible for making sure that the topography of the Territory is maintained within safe limits. He also stated until the Government put measures in place persons would continue seeking Governments help to construct retaining walls and when the Government stop helping persons to construct retaining walls someone would take the step and put the Government in court for putting their lives in danger. He further stated that talking to the contractors and excavator operators should have been a last resort and for their education only. The Town and Country Planning Departments Land Development Control should be stating what cuts should be made in the topography of the Territory.

549.

The Member for the Second District thanked the DDM for the detailed report that she presented to the Members. He then enquired whether the Department of Disaster management was represented on the Development Planning Board. The DDM stated that the Department was represented on the Pre Planning Authority as well as the Planning Authority.
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550.

The Member for the Second District queried whether the Department had submitted any recommendations for legislation in order to control the problems that the Government was facing as it related to the excavation for the preparation of development. He also stated that he was of the opinion that legislation needed to be put in place so that the Department can actually monitor and control developments.

551.

The DDM stated that the Department had made recommendations for inclusion in the regulations that the Department of Town and Country Planning was expecting to prepare. She further stated that to her knowledge the Town and Country Planning Department was trying to have the regulations completed on the CDB Grant however several recommendations were made as to how additions should be made in the regulations. She further stated that the Department had a very good relationship with the Town and Country Planning Department and in her opinion the Department had made great strides in terms of planning. She stated that the Departments weakness was with the building component. For several years the Department had been trying to encourage the Ministry of Communications and Works to take forward a paper for the revision of the building regulations 1999. She informed that the Department had discussions with the former Minister of Communications and Works and there was also a direction that was proposed for the Department to adapt the ICB Regulations which would have allowed for the Department to have a fire code as well as looking at other codes that would control the construction aspect.

552.

The DDM further explained that in 2004 the Department conducted an assessment of the building and planning process in the BVI and unfortunately the report from the said assessment was never presented to Cabinet. She also explained that what the report from the said assessment did was to define the number of weaknesses that the Department faced between the planning and construction phase development in the Territory and a recommendation was made that in order for the weaknesses to be improved there was a need for the building and planning authority to be merged, so there would be one central location in assessing applications. At present the
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Departments applications from the

hazard

vulnerability assessment

were

incorporated within the conditions that were set by the planning authority but in many instances where there would have actually been the application of those recommendations would have been seen at the actual construction phase. The Department was knowledgeable that there were weaknesses with the inspection process and the report clearly indicated what training was required, what regulations would be needed to be implemented and what existing regulations were providing strong support to the existing process. Lastly she emphasised that the success of the recommendations outlined in the report called for the merger of both the building and planning authority.

553.

The Member for the Second District stated that within the past few years one of the challenges that the Territory faced was flooding and based on all reports that he had seen it was the one problem that had plagued the Virgin Islands. He further stated that a great deal of the flooding stemmed from the fact that the development of property, proper planning and drainage solutions were not taken into consideration. He then stated that as a way forward he believed that the Department should submit all their reports/ findings to Cabinet with recommendations for legislation in order to move forward. He then encouraged the DDM to ensure that the report which was

completed along with the recommendations were sent to Cabinet, because based on the problem the Territory was experiencing with flooding over the last few years, it need to be looked at so that corrective measures could be implemented. The Member further stated that in the area where he lived and represented flooding was one of the most perplexing problems his district faced. He further stated that a lot of the flooding came from the developments that had taken place over the years and proper drainage solutions were not implemented. He emphasised that the improvement to and the enforcement of legislation guiding the development process in the Territory was the only way forward.

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554.

The DDM stated that the report which the Department completed in 2004 specifically looked at the building process. The issues of flooding in the Territory had been affecting the Territory significantly over the past years and the Department had studied the flood problems in the BVI through different mechanisms and processes and there were indications of the causes of the significant flood events in the Territory. She explained that based on the BVIs topography the BVI had very steep hills and narrow coast lines and a significant portion of the land was reclaimed and unfortunately drainage solutions were not addressed in the way it should have been. When the Department examined the 2003 flooding event it was a 10 years return flood event. When the 2010 flood event was looked at it was a 50 year flood return period and it was based on the intensity of rainfall and how much rainfall was accumulated over a short period of time.

555.

There was about 29 inches of rainfall over that very short period of time in 2010. She stated that those factors were indicators that the Territory had a very significant flood event and was something that would occur every fifty years. As a result of the flooding a number of homes were affected and there were some areas with significant landslides. She further informed that another problem the Territory had with the flood hazard was that there was not a proper definition of the ghuts within the Territory and in the BVI there was a custom to call areas dry ghuts. The Department was trying to eradicate the concept of dry ghuts as there was no such thing as a dry ghut because at some point in time the said ghut did carry water. There were applications that went to the Town and Country Planning Department and the initial challenges that the Department faced had improved immensely because they had done a lot of work speaking with the surveyors.

556.

The DDM further stated that the Department had a number of concerns and they believed that there needed to be more stringent regulations with regard to storm water management and erosion control. She also informed the Committee that the Department had that discussion with the Town and Country Planning Department and
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they had taken the suggestions forward with regard to how new regulations that were proposed would be designed. The flood issues within the Territory were not going to go away and the Territory would be in a period where there was excessive rainfall and the records indicated that. Drainage solutions needed to be reviewed on a holistic approach a national network that allowed for drainage from property to be carried away from far lands and into safer areas. She explained that another challenge the Department had was the effects from the filling in of the ponds in low lying areas in the Territory. She emphasised that ponds had a significant purpose and that purpose needed to be maintained. She stated that the Territory was seeing the effects of filling in ponds in Cane Garden Bay and other areas like Pock Wood Pond. If natural systems were going to be tampered with there was going to be a significant effect and the effect was going to be significant flooding and erosion and possibly loss of income.

557.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that he was impressed with the report that was given by the DDM. He also stated that he was not certain about the process for reports to come before the House of Assembly. However the report that was presented was quite comprehensive. He stated that educating the public and enforcement must work hand in hand. The population needed to be properly educated to understand that every piece of land in the Territory could not be developed; some areas just had to be reserved for the protection of ghuts. He emphasised that education and enforcement should be incorporated as part of the Territorys development plan. He stated that one of the problems with enforcement was the lack of human resources which was outlined in the report given by the DDM. He admonished the DDM to continue educating the contractors and excavator operators.

558.

The DDM stated that she was in agreement with the Members views.

559.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the frequency of the simulation exercises for tsunamis awareness that was done in the schools should be
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conducted and also queried whether the exercises included simulation exercises for earthquakes as well.

560.

The DDM stated that the Department had a keen interest in the schools population and the stimulation exercises that were done in 2011 was actually the first exercise that the Department did where school actually tested plans that the Department worked along with them to develop. Majority of the schools currently had some form of a disaster plan and the exercise that was conducted last year was specifically for earthquakes. After conducting the stimulation exercises the Department was able to secure a grant from the Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA) to implement small early warning units within all schools which included both private and public schools. She informed that all schools had the warning units and they could be alerted for any type of hazard. The warning units were activated from the Departments office and the schools received a signal and also instructions on the units themselves. The units were tested every month. She stated that her office reported that more than 70% of the schools responded indicating that their units had alerted them as there was a test conducted last Friday. The Department was quite pleased with the endeavour.

561.

The DDM stated that as it related to the schools what needed to be done was that the policy which the Department had developed last year which looked at a certification for schools to ensure that they meet particular standards was the next step that the Department wanted to take. The Department had been in discussion with the Ministry to engage the new minister in discussions in relation to how the Department proposed that that assessment would be implemented. The assessment would actually look at what the weaknesses within the school system were and the school operations that would prevent them from evacuating the school or adequately handle any particular accident or incident which could occur on the school compound. The DDM emphasised that ultimately the Department wanted to get to the point where they would get an agency which would actually certify schools annually. She further stated
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that the Department had observed some unsafe features in the schools such as vehicles parked on inclines and student shaving to walk behind the vehicles, unsafe playground equipment and the unsafe operation of equipment. The DDM stressed that there was a lot of work to be completed to make schools safer which not only looked at the physical school structures but the operation of the school as well.

562.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether the Department had pointed out to the school the unsafe features in the schools structure and operation in order for them to be addressed.

563.

The DDM stated that the Department actually had an inspector issue letters to the schools to remove the vehicles that were parked on slopes and up to last week the Department received a call notifying them that the vehicle was parked on the incline again. She further explained that the Department felt that the situation with the vehicle parked on the incline there was a need for a regulatory factor to support the Education Act to address the issue of safety in schools. She also explained that there were a number of issues in the private schools that needed to be considered and addressed however after discussions with the Ministry of Education the Department was told that the existing regulations gave flexibility to the private schools. She emphasised that the private schools needed to be in line with what the Department was doing in the public schools.

564.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried about how many of the Departments officers participated in the Safer Building Course that was offered by the Hamilton Lavity Stoutt Community College.

565.

The DDM stated that the Department trained contractors. They worked with the college to develop the material for the course and they have gone through sessions with the instructors for the course. She informed that about 190 198 contractors were trained. As it related to the Officers from the Department, a majority of the
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Departments staff had taken the course. She informed that the College had divided the course in two modules. Level one was tailored for contractors. However homeowners were now interested in the course and the course needed to be reexamined because the programme was tailored specifically for contractors. There was currently a Level 2 course which was tailored more for foremen and project coordinators because based on the Departments research there was a lot of issues with how estimates were being presented and the Level 2 course looked at the Physical Planning Act and how estimates were prepared.

566.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what measures the Department had been putting in place to reduce their electricity expenses. The DDM stated that the $29,000 indicated was utilised for four different locations. The first location was at Fish Bay where the warehouse was operated, the second location was at Russell Hill which was the Departments siren site, the third location was the location on Anegada where the Department operated another siren site and the last site was the Departments main compound. Prior to 2011 the Departments electricity bills were over $2,000 per month, at present the bills were between $1,600 - $1,800 per month. What was done when rooms in the building were not being utilised was that the lights and AC unit would be turned off. The DDM felt that there could be some improvement in the electricity consumption as the Department was utilising some old AC Units which were not comprised of a central cooling system and a lot of energy was being lost through those AC Units.

567.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether the Department was using the incandescent light bulbs or whether they utilised compact fluorescent and LED lights. The DDM stated that the lights in the conference room had been changed and the Department was informed that if they were to move the lights would have been able to be utilised as well.

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568.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that based on his calculation the new proposed building for the Department cost $245 per square foot and queried whether the cost included professional fees and equipment or whether it was only the cost to erect the building.

569.

The DDM stated that based on the estimate that was provided to the Department by the Public Works Department that cost was only to erect the structure. She explained that in her opinion the figure was high because the building had specific specification and the building specifications that were provided were done based on the recommended specs for a critical facility. There were standards for an emergency operation centre and the Department had asked the engineer to design the building on those conditions.

570.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether the building was like typical buildings in the BVI. The DDM stated that the building was designed with specifications that if there was to be an earthquake of a particular magnitude it would be expected that the building would remain standing.

571.

The Minister for Health and Social Development queried what was considered a good cut. The DDM stated that a good excavation would be where you go to a site and see the rock layers are within a 90 degree angle then thats solid rock and you would want to cut along the angle of the rock not cutting opposite to the angle of the rock. She stated that the concept was explained to the contractors. She stated if there were rocks with a number of layers on a site that was an indication that there would be a problem. If the rock layers appeared to be quite solid and once cutting began and there was no movement of the rock layer, however the art to a good cut was in the angle to ensure that cuts were being made in the angle of the rock layers formation. She stated that although there was data stating that a cut should be on a 30 40 degree angle the Department had not been able to apply the data to the building process as it was only being applied as a planning authority process.
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572.

The Minister for Health and Social Development queried the disconnect and why data had only been applied to the building process. The DDM stated that the disconnect was that the recommendation went to the developer and the Department was not able to track whether the angle was actually being implemented on site, because that aspect was handled by the building authority.

573.

The Minister for Health and Social Development queried who was responsible for making the decision. The DDM stated that the inspectors in the Building Authority needed to be trained. She informed that based on the Departments 2004 report they needed to look at the qualifications of individual within the building authority who conducted the inspections to ensure that they were at a particular standard where they could assess the sites for particular conditions.

574.

The Minister for Health and Social Development queried what The Member for the Third District meant when he stated that Government should be held responsible for some of the difficulties that developers faced as it related to retaining structures and drainage solutions.

575.

The Member for the Third District stated that no development should be done at the expense of anyone but the developer. However, since what happens in the Territory was that persons were developing property with the approval of Government and it is Governments responsibility to ensure that the properties were developed accordingly by first having legislation in place and second to enforce the legislation, however, when this is not done then the Government should become responsible.

576.

The Minister for Health and Social Development asked the DDM if she had a recommendation for the Ballast Bay Ghut. The DDM stated that her recommendation was that the ghut be put back to its original flow path.

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577.

The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the hospital was between two ghuts and after the cut was made what was the Departments recommendation.

578.

The DDM stated that initially the Department recommended that a check inspector review the plans for the hospital and that recommendation was support by the Pan American Health Organisation. At the time that recommendation was not accepted. At the time when the cut for the hospital was performed the Department had a geologist working with it and he had inspected the site and provided some recommendations but unfortunately a bad cut had already been made on that site.

579.

The Member for the Third District queried what expenses would be incurred if the Ballast Bay Ghut was restored to its original flow path he also queried whether there were any buildings in the original flow path.

580.

The DDM stated that if the Ballast Bay Ghut was to be restored to the original flow path she was not of the opinion that there were any buildings that would be disrupted. There had been need for some significant engineering works to address homes that may have been impacted by over flow. She stated that the change in the ghut flow and the fact that the ghut itself had widened because of excessive rainfall there was an overflow issue. The Department was in favour of promoting security of the banks of the ghut however they were not in favour of paving the bottom of ghuts because it affected the peculation levels. With the Ballast Bay Ghut there was evidence and reports that the ghut needed to returned to its original flow path.

581.

The Member for the Second District informed that the Ballast Bay area itself had a major problem other than the ghut. He stated that when the ghut had been spoken of reference was made to the area where the bridge and road passed but the ghut had drainage and other collected areas which started from up in the hills. He stated that if Ballast Bay was presently observed it would be noticed that there are areas which had landslide where no ghuts exists. That highlights the fact that water flow was diverted
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from its original path up in the hills. He emphasised the Ballast Bay area was a major issue that needed to be corrected.

582.

The Minister for Communications and Works stated that he, along with personnel from the Public Works Department and the Member for the Second District, had made a visit to the Ballast Bay ghut as a matter of urgency and with a view to consider restoring the ghut to its original state and putting a bridge over the original ghut. He also said that at present Public Works was looking at the design for the bridge with the view that it would be constructed as a matter of urgency prior to the hurricane season.

583.

The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired whether the DDM had any recommendations for the Fish Bay Ghut.

584.

The DDM informed that she was of the opinion that the ghuts in Fish Bay, Purcell Estate and Pock Wood Pond needed to be adequately studied. The flood hazard mapping model was completed for the Johnsons ghut water shed and the data was available for the entire area which spanned down to Wickhams Cay II. She stated that a concern she had was when projects which were having an impact on drainage path were implemented the appropriate models were not conducted to give definition to water capacity and speed of water flow. She stated that with more studies of that nature the Department would be able to have more adequate plans for addressing the issues with the areas that created problems.

585.

Fish Bay was an area of particular concern because the coastal areas were being developed and significantly impacted by the excessive flood water. On Tuesday of the coming week a flood specialist would have been in the Territory and he was going to be here as a part of a regional project and he was asked to take the existing data that the Department had and define a model for the entire Territory and the information would be presented to technical agencies. The DDM felt that planning needed to be
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done with the understanding of the capacity of water the ghuts carried and how they could impact the coastal areas.

586.

The Minister for Communications and Works queried whether a solution to the flooding in the Pock Wood Pond area on the Departments agenda. The DDM stated that in 2010 some reports were completed and there were specific recommendations for Fish Bay and Pock Wood Pond. She stated that the problems in Pock Wood Pond were more complicated.

587.

The PSDGO stated that although the need for the Emergency Operations Centre (EOC) building was discussed, based on the Members questions, he was not certain that the Members understood how badly the building was needed. He stated that building which the organisation had the responsibility for looking after national disasters, a building which not only house the said organisation but the Governor and Ministers during national disasters was about to fall apart and he hoped that based on the report that was submitted a more detail discussion could have taken place.

588.

The PSDGO further stated that, if a hurricane or earthquake were to hit the Territory, there was the possibility that a new location would have to be found to actually manage the Countrys national disaster. He stated that approval was granted from Cabinet for phase 1 of the building which was $2.9 million to begin. He informed the Committee that the BVI led the region in disaster management and, because of the status of the EOC building they no longer held that lead.

589.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that photographs in the report that was submitted, suggested that there were several maintenance issues with the building.

590.

The DDM stated that the pictures which the Member referred to were an addition to a structure that was completed for Princess Anns visit in 2004. The structure was
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poorly constructed on the part of the contractor and that portion of the construction was actually now settling and the portion that was added was separating from the main structure. The drainage around the site had some issues and the concrete structure was very porous. The roofing and ceiling in her office were removed as it was falling down. In 2011 Public Works Department patched and plastered the roof. She further stated that too much money was being spent on repairs to the roof as it continued to leak because it was not draining properly because of the condition of the concrete. She emphasised that the building had served its time and if the Territory was to have any sort of earth movement there was the possibility that the building would be significantly damaged.

591.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked whether the New EOC building would be erected on the same site. The DDM stated that yes, the new building would be constructed on the same site but at a lower level.

592.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked whether the existing EOC building would have been demolished to which the DDM answered in the affirmative.

593.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked whether the DDM considered the new EOC Building a priority.

594.

The DDM stated that the new building was a priority. She stated that the BVI had been able to maintain a reputation regionally in terms of disaster management and the condition of the present building did not match the reputation that the BVI once held. She informed that several ways to obtain funding from regional organisations were sought but the BVIs status as an Overseas Territory did not allow them to access United States Agency for International Development funds. The said agency had been providing resources to independent countries to construct EOCs and to construct warehouses in majority of the independent countries. She informed that the funding through the Department for International Development (DIFID) and the EU was not
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allowed because those organisations did not fund structures and they focused on capacity building initiatives.

595.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether phase one of the building project would allow the Department to operate.

596.

The DDM stated that they asked for the building to be designed so that the first phase would be the actual EOC, so if that structure were to be implemented the Department should have sufficient space to operate until they were able to get the offices to be on the first floor. She emphasised that if the Territory was to have a significant natural disaster in 2012 the Department would face difficulty operating in their current location for any long term period. She stated that the way an emergency operation should operate was that it should have been able to allow for other agencies to utilise the services. The structure was designed for the police to be able to conduct surveillance etc. She stated that the functions of the building were not only for the DDM but by other Ministries and Departments.

597.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether the plans were submitted to the last Cabinet to which the DDM responded in the affirmative and reiterated that the plans were approved by Cabinet.

598.

The Member for the Second District queried whether the location for the new EOC building was the ideal location.

599.

The DDM stated that there were discussions about the site. The Department was given one alternative option that they had looked at which was in Baughers Bay but when the area was studied it was found that the area was highly susceptible to flooding. The present location of the Department was ideal because it was above the 30 metre mark for tsunami protection. There were a number of aerials underground which were buried quite deep which allowed the Department to operate their
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communication equipment, therefore, they did not want to disturb them. It was also ideal for the visibility of the entrance to the location of the ports and to be able to see the harbour area was very ideal therefore Public Works was asked to design the building so that it would fit into a residential area and the entrances and exits of the site would be improved.

600.

The PSDGO queried how the Department was to move forward based on their request.

601.

The Premier stated that he understood the need for the new building.

602.

The Minister for Communications and Works queried whether there was a manager for the project. The DDM stated that the Departments recommendation in order to keep the cost low was to have PWD along with the Departments technical officers form a management team to oversee the said project.

603.

The Chairman thanked the panel for appearing before the committee.

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HEAD 150 HEAD 165 Present:

SUPREME COURT COMMERCIAL COURT

Mr. David Archer (PSDGO

Permanent Secretary, Deputy Governors Office

Ms. Paula Ajarie

Registrar Supreme Court & Commercial Court (the Registrar)

Mrs. Michelle McLean

Senior Court Administrator, Supreme Court (SCA)

604.

The Chairman welcomed the panel to the meeting and asked that they state their names and positions for the record to which the panel complied.

605.

The SCA informed that the renovation to the annex which housed the Commercial Registry were complete in March 2011. The Commercial Registrys staff was relocated to their newly renovated accommodations. She stated that the Case Manager and Clerical Officer/Filing Clerk were the two employees stationed at that Registry. She also informed that three of the eight positions under the Commercial Court that were not filled were the positions of Deputy Registrar. The Registrar performed the duties of the Registrar of the Commercial Court. A Court Clerk assigned from the Supreme Court to the Commercial Court performed the duties of Court Clerk and Court Reporter. The positions were not filled as a cost saving measure. The Court fees for the Commercial Court were increased and implementation took place in early 2011 as the fees had not been increased since 1922. The Departments voice recognitions software was installed in March of 2011 and was utilised by the Commercial Court Judge for the recording of Court proceedings and by the Judicial
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and Legal Services Commission Secretary (JLSC) to record the minutes of meeting when the JLSC held meetings. The Department relocated from their warehouse in Port Purcell where the Departments court files and other items were stored to a more spacious warehouse at Pockwood Pond in July 2011. The new location allowed the Department to properly store court documents, court exhibits and seized goods with no threat of flooding. The Judges residence in McNamara were equipped with generators in December 2011, which allowed for the Judge to have electricity during power outages until power was restored. The SCA informed that at the High Court Registry the roof was leaking in several places and as a result the carpet in some offices had gotten wet. She stated that to alleviate the problem in the areas that were wet the carpet was replaced with tiles. A decision was made that renovation should take place at the Judges residence at MacNamara. Since Justice Charles had vacated the premises due to her retirement, Public Works would begin making repairs to the residence within the next few weeks. 606. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether an estimate for the cost to conduct the renovations for Judges residence at MacNamara was completed. 607. The Registrar informed that an estimate was not completed as a thorough renovation was not to be conducted on the residence. She stated that the residence was to be refurbished until the proper renovations could be conducted on the residence. 608. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian made an inquiry into which Subhead the funds for the refurbishing of the residence would be taken from. 609. The Registrar informed that the Public Works Department and the Deputy Governors Office were to be involved in the renovations. 610. The Minister for Education and Culture queried about the Departments succession plan. 611. The Registrar informed that the Department had a succession plan implemented. She explained that the Department had a Deputy Registrar who was expected to succeed !"#$%!**%&'%"#$%

the registrar in due time. The Department also had cross training so if an individual was to leave the Department that position could be filled internally. She informed that the Department also had Judicial Assistants who could succeed the Deputy Registrar. 612. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired about the type of training being done at the department. The Registrar informed that the Judicial Assistants from the Commercial Court were invited to the High Court Registry during the courts vacation to see the type of work that was done there. She explained that the Deputy Registrar worked along with her to better understand the duties and functions of the Registrar. 613. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that the Courts electricity expense were high in 2010, however, it was significantly reduced in 2011. He then enquired what was the cause of the significant reduction of the electricity expenses. 614. The Registrar informed that the Department had begun to turn off lights and the AC Units when they were not in use. She also informed that the Department paid the electricity costs for five different locations. 615. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired what the five different locations were. 616. The Registrar informed that the Department paid the electricity expenses for both the High Court and House of Assembly Chambers, the Court Reporting Unit, the Registry Building on Main Street, and the Commercial Court. 617. The Member for the Third District queried whether the Supreme Court was responsible for the Court Reporting Unit to which the Registrar responded in the affirmative. 618. The Member for the Third District then queried why the House of Assembly has not received a verbatim transcript within the last five years.

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619.

The Registrar informed that the Court Reporting Unit was under quite a lot of pressure.

620.

The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired what type of problem the Unit was experiencing.

621.

The Registrar informed that the Territory had three Courts and the Unit presently had five Court Reporters. She explained that along with the usual Court Assizes the Court Reporters had to work when the Court of Appeal was in session therefore four Courts were operating simultaneously. She informed that the Court Reporters also helped with the Standing Finance Committee proceedings therefore they had a hectic workload and were under quite a tremendous amount of pressure.

622.

The Minister for Health and Social Development queried whether the Courts had preference over the House of Assembly as it relates to the submission of reports from the Court Reporting Unit.

623.

The Registrar stated that based on her answer she did not imply that the Courts had more preference over the House of Assembly. She stated that the Unit was making every effort in assisting the House of Assembly. She stated that the Unit was given a three day deadline to complete the verbatim reports however they had requested an extension in completing the reports which was brought to the attention of the Speaker.

624.

The Registrar informed that she was guaranteed by the Ag. Senior Court Reporter that the Unit would have tried their best to produce reports in a timely manner. She stated that she was informed that the Unit was working on the older transcripts and she was told that she would have gotten them in a short time however she needed to make an inquiry into exactly when the transcripts would be completed. She stated that she was of the opinion that the House of Assembly transcripts that were not produced over the five year period were already produced. Lastly she guaranteed the Committee that she would have followed up the matter.

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625.

The Minister for Communications and Works queried why the House of Assembly was dependent on the Court Reporting Unit to produce verbatim transcripts. He then queried whether the House of Assembly could have their own reporter. He also queried whether there was a request for a reporter by the House of Assembly.

626.

The Minister for Health and Social Development emphasised that one Court Reporter was not sufficient for the House of Assembly.

627.

The Member for the Fifth District stated that one Reporter could not be relied upon. She also stated that there should be more than two Reporters because it was not certain when a Reporter would be disabled for whatever reason. She then queried whether the Members were to understand that because of the other engagements of the Courts the transcripts for the House of Assembly had not been produced over such a long period of time.

628.

The Registrar informed that she was startled when she learnt that the transcripts had not been produced for the five year period. She explained that when she investigated the matter she was informed that different reporters had done different portions of the House of Assembly Sittings and they were trying to recover from each person who worked on the transcripts the portions that they had completed to compile the transcripts.

629.

The Minister for Education and Culture enquired whether anyone from the House of Assembly had liaised with the Department about the completion of the transcripts or whether the transcripts were not produced over the five year period as a result of no one paying close attention to the completion of them. The Registrar informed that the completion of transcripts for the five year period was brought to her attention over the summer by the Clerk of the House of Assembly.

630.

The Minister for Education and Culture queried whether anyone from the House of Assembly contacted the Department to enquire about the status of the transcripts during the five year period to which the Registrar responded in the negative.
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631.

The Minister for Education and Culture queried whether the Registrar was of the opinion that if the House of Assembly had enquired about the completion of the transcripts more frequently, the transcripts would have been completed in a more timely manner. The Registrar stated that if that was the case it could have possibly been a measure to ensure the transcripts were completed in a timely manner.

632.

The Member for the Third District queried whether the outstanding transcripts would impact upon Members receiving the transcripts for Sittings during the Second House of Assembly Sessions, in particular Standing Finance. The Registrar assured the Committee that every effort would be made to ensure that the transcripts would be completed in a more timely manner.

633.

The Registrar informed that she had prioritised to the Training Division that more persons needed to be trained as Court Reporters. She also informed that there was a problem as it related to recruiting Court Reporters who were non belongers and the preference was to have belongers working in the Court Reporting Unit and that was a major challenge that the Department faced with the recruitment of Court Reporters.

634.

The Minister for Education and Culture queried how a Court Reporter was selected. The Registrar informed that an individual had to be trained to type at least 200 words per minute as it was a requirement to be a Court Reporter.

635.

The Minister for Education and Culture enquired how an individual could be trained to be a Court Reporter. The Registrar informed that there was no training school or individual in the BVI who trained Court Reporters at present. She further stated that persons had to be trained overseas.

636.

The Minister for Education and Culture queried who exactly did court reporting training. The Registrar informed that persons had to attend a court reporting school on their own or it could be funded by the Government. The Registrar further informed that there was a court reporting school once operating in the BVI however the school was presently non-existent.
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637.

The Minister for Education and Culture queried where the preferred school for court reporting was. The Registrar informed that the preferred schools for court reporting were in the USA.

638.

The Minister for Education and Culture asked if the Territory had a shortage of Court Reporters. He further asked what was being done to ensure that at some point the unit would be properly staffed. The Registrar informed that she wrote to the Training Division and the Scholarship Board and had asked them to encourage persons to be trained for court reporting.

639.

The Minister for Education and Culture queried whether the Registrar could write to him and advise him on how many Court Reporters were needed for the Unit because there are over 490 unemployed young persons in the Territory and he was certain that about 2 persons of those persons could be trained to take up those positions. The Registrar stated that she was informed that two persons were presently being trained as Court Reporters.

640.

The Minister for Education and Culture queried whether the two persons that were being trained would fulfil the departments shortage of Court Reporters. The Registrar responded in the negative however it was a start.

641.

The Minister for Education and Culture asked the Registrar to write to him outlining what the Departments long-term goals were so that persons could be identified to study court reporting. Subhead 62400 Contributions to Overseas Organizations

642.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that under Subhead 62400 the funds were increased about 20% and queried why this was so.

643.

The Registrar informed that when the budget was submitted it was not certain how much funds would be needed for overseas contributions as their budget year was in July and the Territorys budget was in January therefore as a matter of caution a bit more funds were required to cover any increases for contributions. !"#$%!+&%&'%"#$%

644.

The Minister for Health and Social Development queried whether there were any initiatives to increase the revenues received from the Courts. The Registrar informed that the fee schedule was being reviewed with the view to increase the fees charged. She then explained that the Commercial Court had generated some fees that was worth mentioning. In 2011 the court made $137, 200 in originating processes only.

645.

The Minister for Health and Social Development queried the operating cost of the Commercial Court. The PSDGO informed that the running cost of the Commercial Court was $636,000 annually.

646.

The Minister for Health and Social Development said that when the Commercial Court was created it was to be a self-sustaining entity.

647.

The FS clarified that the Commercial Court was created for two reasons, a Commercial Court was needed in the Eastern Caribbean Courts system and especially the VI with the large number of commercial cases that the Territory had. He stated that caution had to be used when the Court was being implemented in the first instance. The second reason the Court was created was because of the high value of the cases that were settled in the Court, it was determined that the fees that would be levied as a result of actions in the said Court should be able to sustain the operation of the Court itself.

648.

The Registrar informed that the fee schedule implementation took effect from February of 2011.

649.

The Member for the Second District queried whether the fee increase was only for the Commercial Court or both the Commercial and Supreme Court. The Registrar informed that the fee increase was only for the Commercial Court. She further stated that presently a fee increase was being worked on for the Supreme Court and the services that it provided.

650.

The Registrar informed that the increase was tremendous. She informed that fees went from $1.20 to $1500.
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651.

The Minister for Communications and Works queried when the new fees for the High Court were expected to be implemented.

652.

The PSDGO informed that an exercise was being conducted with all Government Departments to produce revenue generating ideas which looked at increasing fees. He stated that their mandate for producing the fee increases to Cabinet was within 2012. Some Departments were ahead of others however it was a priority and for 2012 the idea was to have all Government Departments produce revenue generating ideas especially with their respective fees.

653.

The Member for the Third District queried whether there were any vacancies within the Departments. The Registrar informed that there were three vacancies within the Commercial Court and four vacancies within the Supreme Court.

654. 655.

The Chairman queried what the vacancies were. The Registrar informed that in the Commercial Court the vacancies were Deputy Registrar, Court Clerk and Court reporter I. She explained that the Deputy Registrar and Court Clerk positions were being kept vacant as a cost-cutting measure. The vacancies in the Supreme Court were Bailiff, Messenger/Clerical Trainee, Clerical Trainee and Scopist.

656. 657.

The Member for the Third District queried whether the positions were advertised. The Registrar informed that the Bailiff, Messenger/ Clerical Trainee had been advertised. Also the Scopist position was advertised but it would have been readvertised. She stated that the Scopist worked within the Court Reporting Unit and edited transcripts. She further stated that Cabinet had approved the Departments request to keep the Deputy Registrar and the Court Clerk positions vacant. She stated that last September they were to indicate whether the Department would have liked to fill those posts. She stated that she would have made another request to keep the positions vacant for a period of time.
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658.

The Minister for Education and Culture queried whether persons had applied to fill the vacant posts. The Registrar informed that an application had been received to fill the Bailiff position and the interviews would be conducted shortly. There were no internal applications for the Messenger position and it would have to be advertised externally and the Clerical Trainee and Scopist positions would be re-advertised.

659.

The Minister for Education and Culture queried whether there were any applications for the Scopist and Clerical Trainee positions. The Registrar informed that when the positions had been advertised no applications were received to fill the posts.

660.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried how long the positions were advertised. The Registrar informed that the positions were advertised for a 2 3 week period.

661.

The Member for the Fifth District queried how long ago the positions were advertised. The Registrar informed that the bailiff position was advertised in December of 2011, the Messenger/ Clerical Trainee position was still currently being advertised but it was now going to be advertised externally, and the Clerical Trainee position was advertised recently.

662.

The Member for the Fifth District asked the Registrar what is meant by the position would be advertised externally. The Registrar informed that there was a policy in place that vacancies were to be advertised within Government which was internally but if no applications were received for the position, the position would then be advertised for the public which was externally.

663.

The Minister for Education and Culture stated that there was a major unemployment problem within the Territory and that he would asked the Registrar to move expeditiously in getting the positions filled.

664.

The Member for the Third District asked what is the qualification for a Scopist. The Registrar informed that to be a Scopist an individual would need to have a good back ground in the English language. The person would have to be mature and have a good !"#$%!+#%&'%"#$%

command of the English language to pick up on grammatical errors and syntax and be able to structure sentences properly. 665. The Minister for Education and Culture queried if the Registrar had a written copy of exactly what the qualifications for a Scopist were. The Registrar informed that she did not have a job description in her possession at present however one could have been supplied to the Committee shortly. 666. The Member for the Fifth District queried whether within the operation of the Commercial Court there was the need for an individual versed in a second language. What was done when an interpreter was required? 667. The Registrar informed that the Department usually utilised the services of an individual who was proficient in Spanish or another foreign language. The Teachers in the High school were usually utilised and they were paid a fee for their service. She stated that the Constitution also provided that a person who did not speak English was to be provided free of cost with an interpreter. 668. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that the operations of the Court cost about $7.3 million annually and the revenues received was about $175,000 and that the gap between the two figures needed to be decreased. 669. The Member for the Third District stated that he had always been told that the Courts should not have been seen as a revenue generator but a means for justice. He stated that his understanding of the establishment of the Commercial Court and the benefit that it brought to the Territory was that it augments the Financial Services sector in becoming a full-service destination and if revenue was made from the fees charged it was a bonus. 670. The PSDGO stated that revenue generating initiatives were critical. He cautioned that when the courts and justice were being spoken about as it related to generating revenue the overall price for justice needed to be taken into consideration. He stated that the Commercial Court allowed the Territorys financial services industry to be in !"#$%!+)%&'%"#$%

a particular position as it related to the Territorys reputation. It also allowed the country to be attractive as it related to doing business in the Territory. He stated that the Department worked extremely hard to increase fees where it was necessary and where it could be increased. He informed that the Department could not entertain the challenge of trying to ensure that the courts were viewed only as revenue generators. 671. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that he understood the social reasons for the court but the primary reasons for establishing the Commercial Court was to make the jurisdiction more attractive because there were about 400 500 thousand companies registered in the Territory. And as a result there were going to be litigation and they wanted these litigations would be heard in the Territorys Court. He further informed that when meetings were held about the establishment of the Commercial Court with the Chief Justice it was understood that the Court would cover its operating costs. 672. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that if the Court was to be reviewed an industry there would be economic benefits that would not be really seen from the Courts. He stated that money would be coming into the Territory by lawyers that were engaged and that this money would stay in the Territory and stimulate the economy. The Minster for Health and Social Development emphasised that the Commercial Court should have been self-sustaining. 673. The Member for the Third District queried whether only commercial cases could be heard in the Commercial Court. The Registrar informed that, for a claim to be brought in the Commercial Court, if a claim form was filed, a fee of $1,500 was charged and were paid into Government revenue. A fixed date claim was another type of claim that could be brought to the Commercial Court and it cost $300. She explained that for each day of trial $1000 was charged for each matter. 674. The Member for the Third District queried whether an individual could chose to have their case heard in the Commercial Court. The Registrar informed that a person could request for their matter to be heard in the Commercial Court. If the case met the
!"#$%!+*%&'%"#$%

requirement of a commercial matter it could be heard in the Court however if it did not meet the criteria it would be heard in the Supreme Court. 675. The Minister for Education and Culture queried how the Commercial Court fees in the BVI compared with the Commercial Court fees in the Cayman Islands. The Registrar informed that the fees in the Cayman Islands were a lot higher than in the BVI. She further stated that the Cayman Islands also charged a percentage of the value of the claim in addition to the Court fees and for that reason she recently had discussions with persons in authority for the Department to look into increasing the fees of the Commercial Court in the foreseeable future. 676. The PSDGO stated that if the old fee schedule was considered the Department was mindful of how they increased their fees. He stated that the approach was to have some gradual increase. He stated that they met with the Registrar again to have the fees more comparable to islands such as the Cayman. He informed that when the fee schedule was looked into they were more comparable to the fees that were charged in the Cayman Islands at the time however when the Departments fees were implemented the fees in the Cayman Islands were increased. 677. The Minister for Education and Culture queried whether the Department was looking at increasing the fees and also getting a percentage of the value of the claims. The Registrar informed that that procedure happened in the Cayman Islands and it would be considered as to whether it would be implemented in the BVI as well. 678. The Minister for Education and Culture queried the percentage of the claim that was being charged in the Cayman Islands. The Registrar informed that it depended as it varied upon the amount depending on the value of the claims. 679. The Minister for Education and Culture queried about the process for the implementation of a new fee schedule. The PSDGO stated that there would be further discussion about the fee schedule and a Cabinet paper would be created and it would go to Cabinet and when it was approved it would be read in the House of Assembly.
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680.

The FS stated that if Cabinet issued a directive stating that value based fee be implemented by the Courts then it would have happened.

681.

The Member for the Third District queried what the OECS thought about the proposed Courts fees. The Registrar informed that because the Commercial Court was based in the BVI and the Territory generated most of the Commercial Court cases she was of the opinion that there would be no objection to the Courts fee schedule.

682.

The Chairman thanked the panel for appearing before the Committee.

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HEAD 155 Present:

CIVIL REGISTRY AND PASSPORT OFFICE

Mr. David Archer

Permanent (PSDGO)

Secretary,

Deputy

Governors

Office

Mrs. Stephanie Benn

Registrar General, Civil Registry and Passport Office (RG)

Mrs. Kara Penn Stoutt

Finance and Planning Officer, DGO (FPODGO)

683.

The Chairman welcomed the panel and asked that they state their names and positions to which they complied.

684.

The Member for the Third District shared his concern about the proposed Belonger card and the cancellation of the old card upon entry. He asked if they spoke about a memorandum from Immigration to cancel the old card upon entry. The RG confirmed that was correct.

685.

The Member for the Third District stated that the card was not used when we enter the BVI, but a passport is needed. The RG said that if one is a Belonger, who is born in the USVIs, that Belonger can use this card to travel to the BVI. She stated that it is your identity card in order to enter the Territory and it says that you are deemed to belong. If you dont have the Belonger Card, Immigration would give you time in your passport.

686.

The Minister for Health and Social Development asked about the issuance of passports. The RG stated that for the issuance of passports, they were supposed to be repatriating that this year; however they pushed it back to 2013. The services,

printing and issuance of passports would be done in the UK, as opposed to everything being done here. She said that they would be electronically collecting the data and sending it to England for printing. !"#$%!"$%&'%"#$%

687.

The Minister for Health and Social Development queried the reason for the change. The RG stated that from what she was told it was for economic as well as security reasons and right now they were unable to really say when it would be effective because it could mean that they would have to be advised on what they would be using for an emergency travel document in case the need arises. She stated that was why it was pushed back to another year.

688.

The Member for the Eighth District queried whether the fees would remain as they were. The RG stated that the fee was dependent on the Overseas Territory. She said that she made a proposal for an increase in new fees and if it passed the House, then the fees for passports would increase. She said that currently they were trying to negotiate for a lower price. She further stated that their stock was getting low as they had over 975 passports left, while they needed to replenish the stock to take them over to at least the ending of 2013. She said that we are being charged $31.00.00 per passport and that does not include shipping and handling and we only now charge customers $40.00. She said that with the new fees, it will cover some of the fees. She further stated that the adults price would $100 plus $25 application fee and for persons over 65 (senior citizens) their passports would be free.

689.

The Minister for Health and Social Development queried whether the cost for children would be $125.00. The RG stated that the passport for minors would be $80 plus $25 application fee.

690.

The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired as to why a new birth certificate is needed every time he had to renew his passport. The RG stated that she realised that our passport has changed from manual to common format to machine readable and now to digital system. She stated that every time the system changes, its a requirement to obtain new Breda documents. She further stated that the current system would not have that information and it would not have been transferred because of the type of system that they use.

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691.

The Minister for Health and Social Development queried whether there were no hard copies of everything or if everything was electronic. The RG stated that for passports, the only thing that is kept is what we call the PA file. She said that the application and everything else would be electronic.

692.

The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired whether when systems were changed if everything was lost. The RG stated sometimes they are able to extract on the old system, depending on how it was scanned in.

693.

The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the RGs explanation sounded feasible and why was it that they could not tell that to persons. The RG stated that when persons enquire, they are told that the system has to have that hard copy again to rescan.

694.

The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired whether they changed the system every ten years. The RG said that the system is basically changed based on what the Foreign and Commonwealth Office dictates. She stated that it is really not up to us here in the BVI and it is likely to be changed with the repatriation.

695.

The Member for the Third District queried why a Birth Certificate is needed if the passport is a legitimate official document. He stated that the passport could be used to get whatever was needed. The RG stated that the Breda documents were needed for it to extract. She said that when the information is scanned, that information is

automatically transmitted to a particular folder in order for the Passport to be printed. She stated that it was not something that could be keyed in but that it must be scanned in. She said that it was also for security reasons. She said that Breda documents are also known to be fraudulent so they need to make sure that you are who you say you are. 696. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian commented that one could have a false Birth Certificate. The RG stated that with the new system in place, new certificates are on new security paper, which is only known to the internal staff. She said that
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they know exactly whether or not your Birth Certificate or Marriage Certificate is authentic. 697. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if he brought his original birth certificate if it would be accepted. The RG stated that they no longer accept those old certificates and that you no longer have to come all the way to the Civil Registry to obtain that. 698. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that if everything is at the Passport Office, then why the need to buy a new one. The RG said that it is not something that could be keyed in, it must be scanned in so that means that the Certificate has to be printed. 699. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the security reasons for repatriation. The RG stated that she was not at liberty to discuss that now, but just to say that some of it is for security as well as economic reasons. 700. The RG said that there were Virgin Islands Passports missing, even before her time and ever so often they would show up all over the world. She stated that they identified that it was a particular stock missing. The RG further stated that just last month they had resurfaced and that is a whole process of investigation again. 701. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that he knew Britain was hinting at taking over the processing of passports. He said that it appears that this is going to be the reality; it is more frequent now and enquired whether that was the reason they were trying to get it back now or for economic reasons. The RG said that it is for security as well as economic reasons. 702. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether it was cheaper for them to do it than for us to do it. The RG stated that she thinks they would make more money if they printed the passports. She said that would be an extra cost, even if we have to pass that cost down to the customers.
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703.

The RG stated that with the repatriation we would not be paying for the passports anymore, thats why she was hoping that this would be the last stock that would be coming to the BVI. She stated that if the repatriation does go through, they will be the ones responsible for buying the passports. She further stated that all we would be required to do is electronically send the data to them and then they would print the passports and send it back.

704.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian spoke about the passports that were said to have gone missing. He stated that he hoped that was not the reason for the passports being repatriated back to the United Kingdom because that is a country with millions of people applying for passports. He enquired about who secured their passports when they went missing and what recourse they have. The RG said that she did not have the answer.

705.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether their fees would be higher than the fees we are charging. The RG said that she was not certain as to what the fees would be but there would be a fee.

706.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if it is expected to be higher. The RG said that she suspected that it would be higher than what we are paying now.

707.

The Member for the Fifth District enquired about the cost of the equipment for the readable passports that we have now. $250,000.00 The RG stated that the cost was over

708.

The Member for the Fifth District queried how long ago that was. The RG stated that was in September 2007. She stated that the system keeps changing and is moving from this particular type of machine readable to an e-passport, which is what the UK Government would be using if we repatriate. She said that because the Overseas Territories are very concerned, they have not given us any positive feedbacks as to what we would be using as an emergency travel document.

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709.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether this was passed down to all the Overseas Territories. The RG stated that it was an initiative that was passed down to all of the Overseas Territories.

710.

The Member for the Third District stated that he never understood why a citizen should have two passports and it is his opinion that the British Government was moving towards discontinuing the practices. He stated that they took the passports back to the UK, and it is easier to tell us in the year 2015 that we would no longer be issuing two passports to any citizen. Subhead 61110 Printing and Stationery

711.

The Minister for Education and Culture queried the increase from $68,100 to $117,300. The RG said that was to purchase the passports. Subhead 61210 Telephone/Telex/Faxes

712.

The Minister for Education and Culture stated that under Utilities and Telephone they were moving from $5,800 to $15,100. The RG stated that she was not even sure if that would be enough to cover for the year but that it was more than the $5,000.00.

713.

The Minister for Education and Culture said that there was a significant increase from the estimate of 2011 compared to the estimate for 2012 from $5,800 to $15,100. The RG stated that from time to time the Deputy Governor proper had to assist in paying the departments utility bill so this wouldnt really be the true picture. She said that this was what they were able to pay, based on some of the reallocation, but it was much higher than the $15,000. Subhead 61220 -Electricity

714. 715.

The Minister for Education and Culture queried electricity. The RG stated that it was the same thing. She said that they actually shared costs because they have Archives and Record Management who share some of the cost.

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716.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian expressed that electricity cost was going up significantly.

717.

The Member for the Sixth District queried why it took six months to get another Belonger card after being lost.

718.

The RG stated that because the Birth Certificate is viewed as a travel document, they used the same sort of policy that we do for a passport. She said that they realise now that lost passports and Birth Certificates are posing a problem. She stated that they have revisited the policy that was established way back so we probably would have the lost travel documents renewals to perhaps 30 days as opposed to six months.

719.

The Member for the Sixth District queried how long a new passport takes. The RG stated that it usually takes the same five days as the new passport.

720.

The Member for the Eighth District stated that he was happy to see the Civil Registry moving towards as electronic system. He queried about when the validation process happens, seeing that the hospital and other Departments enter data into the system. The RG stated that, once it is entered, the validation is finalised when we check to make sure everything is in there.

721.

The Member for the Eighth District stated that we need to get away from the old Belonger cards. He stated that he saw that the cards were similar to the cards that Labour and the DMV uses. He enquired whether there was any collaboration in terms of the equipment used to print these cards.

722.

The RG confirmed and did some investigation as to what they were using. She stated that we were supposed to be sharing the equipment with Immigration Department, but Immigration Department has not come on board yet until they get Cabinets approval. She said the reason for that was that they only issue less than a 100 Belonger cards per year. She stated that we issue over 300, so in order to save us; we thought that it was best for them to join with us and just have the persons come to the Passport Office and re-issue the Belonger card using the same system, just a different !"#$%!")%&'%"#$%

application. She said that they were also looking at eventually having a national i.d. card and that was where this was supposed to be taking us. She further stated that they were now researching the feasibility of having the national i.d. card where their voters registration card, all their belonger cards, residents, social security and perhaps drivers license can all be merged together to form one card in the BVI as your national i.d card. She said for each entity or agency, it would just be subjected to whatever information is on the system that the application brings up. It would be one system but different branches. 723. The Member for the Eighth District enquired whether we were going into four different processing areas. The RG said four or maybe five. 724. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired whether the RG spoke about Immigration issuing Belongers cards and Civil Registry as well. The RG said that was correct. She stated that Immigration issues Belongers card for persons who are in the Territory for less than ten years or married to individuals who are British Overseas Territory Citizens. She said that they would get Belonger status through Immigration and for the Passport Office they would get it through descent and sometimes through marriage, depending on when they were married. 725. The Member for the Eighth District queried whether one gets the two cards through different processes or is it a different card. The RG stated that it was through a different process because with Immigration, they obtain theirs under the Immigration and Passport Ordinance but the Passport obtains it under the Constitution, but the end result is the same. 726. The Member for the Third District stated that just having Immigration allowing you to print the card does not make it official. He said that he thinks it is supposed to be made official for only one card to be issued no matter the process it goes through.

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727.

The Member for the Fifth District stated that it needed some attention because it seems that once agency one approves you are referred to the other one so your card be issued.

728.

The Member for the Third District stated that this causes confusion. He said that one of the entities, whether Passport, Registry, or Immigration needs to get the blessings of the Minister to prepare a document for Cabinet to take a ruling on this matter.

729.

The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that mention was made about the National ID card. He further enquired whether this National ID card would have the possibility of joining with the Drivers Licence ID card. The RG stated that it is a possibility and the technical people would be able to tell us how feasible it is.

730.

The Member for the Fifth District stated that it seemed that it could present a slight problem. The RG stated that it is possible that it could happen and that it was just a matter of how it is written and the features that were put into the card.

731.

The Member for the Third District observed that one could walk around with a drivers license and not know when it expires. The RG stated that these cards have expiry dates.

732.

The Member for the Third District stated that a drivers license is issued for three years and the Belonger card is issued for ten. The RG stated that the card would have various features. She said that they were not saying that it is workable but they were looking at it. She stated that they were told by the technocrats that certain things were possible, and for the drivers license part of it, there would have persons who cannot vote so their card wouldnt have that feature on it. If they are not a Belonger, it wouldnt have that feature. The RG further stated that you can have a temporary resident with the National ID card but only subjected to maybe drivers license information.

733.

The Member for the Third District queried whether different features were on the card or in the card. The RG stated that the magnetic strip would tell. !"#$%!"+%&'%"#$%

734.

The RG queried whether The Members could confirm whether or not they would approve the two posts which were requested. She said that they were the Deputy Registrar General and Executive Officer. Subhead 61320 Equipment Major

735.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian commented on the cost for the photocopier. He referred to it as the cost for a vehicle. The RG stated that the Passport Office used a lot of paper and would really need a heavy duty photocopier to be able to deal with all their printing.

736.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired what brand it was. The RG stated that it was a Canon.

737.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried if this was the best price that they were able to get. The RG stated that that was the best price for the features that they needed. She said that their intention was to avoid going out and outsourcing some of their printing because they have to print passport application forms, registration and Naturalisation forms and all the different forms.

738.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether their budget took into consideration replacement cartridges and other aspects of the machine. The RG stated yes.

739.

The Member for the Eighth District stated that it was his understanding that the idea of moving towards an electronic system was to get away from printing papers. He further enquired if we have a new system why are we printing so much paper.

740.

The RG stated that the Passport Office has a lot of services that require a lot of paper. She said that from time to time they give customers a small card to show them how to download their application forms especially for the passport, but the Naturalisation and registration forms are done on special paper and we do a lot of printing of the extract of Laws, which is not electronic as yet and we do a lot of that for our customers.
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741.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether they obtained a five-year guarantee with this machine.

742.

The Member for the Eighth District enquired about the features of the application and what could be done online. The RG stated that with that application you would be able to download all of their application forms but some persons often come in the office because it is a Government Office to say that they do not have the means to download application forms.

743.

The Member for the Eighth District enquired whether we would able to file any of the applications online with this new system. The RG stated that with this new system you are able to start the process of the application online.

744.

The Member for the Eighth District enquired about which application. The RG stated that it was for the Certificates as well as the marriage licenses.

745.

The Member for the Eighth District queried whether it was only two applications. The RG stated yes.

746.

The Member for the Eighth District enquired the cost spent on this new application. The RG stated that it was initially $200,000.00 but they bid down to $148,000.00.

747.

The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired about the number of copies per minute. The RG stated 95 pages per minute. She stated that one of the issues also was that they had Gazette housed in the Passport Office and they also use the copier so that added to some of the wear and tear.

748.

The Member for the Third District asked how many vacancies there were at Civil Registry. The RG stated that there was one for a Messenger/Clerical Officer.

749.

The Member for the Third District enquired if all of those posts except for the messenger were filled. The RG stated yes.

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750.

The Member for the Third District enquired whether the funds for the vacant posts were in the budget.

751.

The RG stated yes. She said that the Deputy Registrars post would be coming from the Deputy Governors subhead 60300.

752. 753.

The Premier stated that we will take it under advisement. The RG stated that they have identified the funds and it would be to coming out of subhead 60300, and that they needed Cabinet to approve the post. She said that it was a reallocation.

754.

The Chairman thanked the panel for their presentation and for answering the questions asked by the Members.

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HEAD 160 Present:

MAGISTRACY

Mr. David Archer Mrs. Eunice Crawford Mrs. Janice Smith Mrs. Kara Penn-Stoutt

Permanent Secretary, DG (PSDGO) Court Manager, Magistracy (CM) Senior Administrative Officer, Magistracy (SAOM) Finance and Planning Officer, DGO (FPODGO)

755.

The Chairman welcomed the panel and asked them to state their names and their Departments for the record.

756.

The Member for the Third District enquired about the non attendance of the Magistrate.

757.

The PSDGO confirmed that the Magistrate was the accounting officer when she previously appeared before the SFC but that she was no longer the accounting officer. He stated that the Court Manager was now the accounting officer for the Magistrates Court.

758.

The Court Manager made a small presentation on the achievements for 2011 and 2012 goals. Subhead 61510 Office Rent

759.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that in 2010 and 2011no rent was charged for Prospect Reef and in 2012 there is $95,000.00 rent for Government owned property. He asked for that to be explained.

760.

The CM stated that Prospect Reef in terms of beginning practices have only started in August of 2011. At that point in time, we were informed that being a Government

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owned building, we would not be required to pay rent. However that has changed in 2012, thus the sum in the budget allocated. 761. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether they were paying a little under $8,000.00 in rent. The CM confirmed. 762. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether there were any negotiations with the rent. The CM said no and that she was just informed that this was what it would be. 763. The Member for the Third District expressed that it did not make any sense. He stated that he would like to know what they were paying per square foot for that space and whether it was competitive. 764. The PSDGO stated that the negotiation to not pay rent was previously between the Deputy Governors Office and the Premier's Office and in 2012 they received notice from the Landlord that going forward, they would need to pay rent. 765. The Member for the Third District stated that it was in his opinion that they were using the rental rates based on periodic use of the space and applying it to long term use, instead of using an average annual rate to determine the true value so in my opinion trying to make up on what the facility was losing on a monthly basis. 766. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that he did not think that the rent should have been that high. 767. The Member for the Third District said that they would like to be presented with details of the rent. He stated that he was very surprised that the figure got so far in the budget. 768. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if there was a signed lease. The PSDGO stated that they had a signed agreement which will lead towards a lease.

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769.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether it was possible to get a copy of the agreement. The PSDGO clarified that he mentioned landlord earlier, but should have said the Managing Director, CEO, not the landlord because the landlord is the Government. He indicated that they received the notification from the CEO, Mr. D. Allen ONeal.

770.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried the lease agreement and the square footage of the building. The PSDGO stated that there was no lease agreement but he could provide the proposal.

771.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that if he had given the impression that because it was a Government owned property it should be free, he was not trying to convey that. He stated that he agreed with his colleague that something should be paid but his concern was what we measured this against.

772.

The Minister for Health and Social Development asked where at Prospect Reef was the Court located. The CM said in the conference room. The PS stated that they use the Court yard but thats a shared space between the Court and Dolphin Discovery. He stated that the cost was $260.00 per day.

773.

The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that it seems that the charge of $260.00 is the charge of a hotel room. The PSDGO said no and that was the rate that they gave in the agreement. The CM said that it is daily. The PSDGO added that it does include electricity and other utilities.

774.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that the rent was $5000.00 a month. The electricity and water was metered based on what you consumed. He said that given the circumstances when you include utilities in the rent there will be confusion.

775.

The Member for the Third District stated that the problem was that the facility was used for a purpose and a manner other than it was intended in so far as it was intended for meeting on a periodic basis. He said that if you want to take a hotel and use it as your residence, then you are going to pay hotel price. !"#$%&$(%&'%"#$%

776.

The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired whether there were still room for negotiations if a bill was sent for $95,000.00 a year. The PSDGO said yes.

777.

The Member for the Fifth District enquired if they used this for conducting the Magistrates Court. The PSDGO said that they needed the space to conduct the Magistrates court and that they negotiated at the time to utilise that space. He stated that it was agreed and we invested some money to repair the roof and so forth. He further stated that they continued with the understanding that it was going to be rent free. However, they were informed that negotiations were taking place with the Premiers Office and that the decision would be communicated to us and it was communicated to us by the Managing Director.

778.

The Minister for Education and Culture enquired where the figures came from. The PSDGO stated that the $95,000.00 came from what the facility felt their property was worth and that we must pay in order to stay there. He said it came from the Managing Director to the Premiers Office

779.

The Minister for Education and Culture queried whether the figure came from the Managing Director. The PSDGO said yes, after a decision to the Premiers Office.

780.

The Member for the Fifth District enquired where the waiting area was located when Court is in session. The CM stated that it was the immediate proximity directly outside of the Court House.

781.

The Member for the Third District stated that the PSDGO should advise the Deputy Governor and the Premier who this portfolio falls under to be negotiated. Subhead 61220 - Electricity

782.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian pointed out that the cost of electricity was doubling in their budget from $21,000.00 to $43,000.00. He queried why it was so high. The CM stated that the sum in electricity was prior to receiving such an agreement. She said that for the months of October to December they have received electricity bills from the same establishment equalling close to $6,000.00 for the three !"#$%&$#%&'%"#$%

month period. She further stated that their electricity at Prospect Reef has now been cut off because they have not received the cheque. 783. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired the number of buildings being operated. The CM stated that there were three buildings. She further stated that in 2011 there were no funds to pay the bill owing to Prospect Reef. She said that they had an over commitment in an attempt to pay that said monies which had been approved. 784. The Budget Coordinator clarified that the submissions for 2012 would have been made before she received the letter indicating that she did need to pay electricity and that it can now be changed. Subhead 61120 Books and Subscriptions 785. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that Books and Subscriptions have almost tripled. He queried whether they were bringing out some new documents in 2012 or more subscriptions. The CM stated that this sum was for their online

subscription where they have West Law which gives the Magistrate the opportunity to research matters on line. She said that in that regard there were other books which were not also offered which left them with a shortage of about $2,000.00 for the year, in order to buy additional materials that might be warranted by the Magistrates for their use. Subhead 60300 Authorized Staff 786. The Minister for Education and Culture queried if Court was still held over on Virgin Gorda. The CM stated two times per month. 787. The Minister for Education and Culture queried where the matters that occur in Virgin Gorda are addressed. The CM stated that if it is in terms of an arrest matter, it would be brought to Tortola to be addressed unless a Magistrate says otherwise. 788. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired under what Subhead provisions were made to equip the Court House with ramps to facilitate easy movement of !"#$%&$)%&'%"#$%

persons to those buildings. The CM stated that it was under the project for the extension of the buildings but the budget did not make provisions for that. She said that it would be dealt with as a capital project so it would not be as a line item in this particular budget. 789. The Member for the Eighth District queried whether the Attorney General's Chambers and other Government Departments use the same legal software. The CM stated that there was one time that the Attorney Generals office used a surveyor but she was not aware if they still do so at this time. 790. The Member for the Eighth District asked if it would not be more cost effective, if the members of the service who used West Law and Nexis Lexis legal software, got a central subscription for the software. 791. The FS said that he knew of one initiative that was spearheaded by the Registrar of Lands and the Solicitor General to have the subscription to Lexis Nexis and as far as he knew, that went ahead. He stated that he did not remember how many licenses were in place but he thought that they at least signed a contract to have that database available to the legal officers in Government. 792. The Member for the Eighth District suggested that it would be wise to have a central subscription for all legal applications. 793. The Member for the Sixth District queried whether a person who came to pay child support should be accepted if the file was unable to be located. She stated that she had several complaints where young men said that the Court could not find the files and did not take the payment. The Member further stated that there should be some kind of provision made if data could not be found and that the file should always be available. 794. The CM stated that during their transition with the Prospect Reef and Johns Hole Office, they had been experiencing growing pains. She said that they do not collect monies at the Prospect Reef Office at this point in time. All cash collections must be !"#$%&$*%&'%"#$%

made payable at the Johns Hole Office. The CM further stated that because of the number of cases being heard at the Prospect Reef Office, they still needed to get the files from there in order to prepare payment. She said that one of the things that they are very mindful of, in terms of collecting money, is to ensure that Warrants do not go out for that person. She said that they make sure that they record the information on the file upon receipt of monies. Even though they would attempt to notate the file at Prospect Reef, there is still a duty at the Johns Hole Office to ensure that the record is updated. She said that it is not refusing the persons money, but trying to protect that individual and ensure that their file is fully updated when money is collected. 795. The Member for the Third District enquired whether Government collects a commission or a processing fee. The CM stated that there was no processing fee for any maintenance, but that it was one of the things they were hoping to introduce in 2012. 796. The Member for the Third District enquired when the policy would be going forward. The CM stated that their intent was to introduce a percentage, which had not yet been determined on all maintenance cases going forward. She said that if you look at our record you would see that in 2011 we collected about $1.2 million in child support alone. She further stated that depending on whatever the percentage was, it would come as revenue to the system. 797. The Member for the Sixth District queried whether this would be looked into. She stated that she felt once a man came to pay child support it should be accepted. She further stated that he should be given a receipt and the records updated as soon as possible. 798. The CM stated that she accepted the Members comment. She said that the only difficulty with that was that the record shows for a specific period that the money is being charged for. She added that you might accept a persons money but only to find that this person was outstanding for a period of time and there very might have been a
!"#$%&$+%&'%"#$%

warrant on that file at the time of accepting that money. She said that was one of the things that would be needed to verify before doing. 799. The CM stated that there were previous instructions given to certain staff members not to do so. She said that they have changed that subsequently to collect the money and not to turn away the persons. She CM further stated that that had changed within the last two or three weeks. 800. The Member for the Fifth District indicated that she agreed with The Member for the Sixth District that there is a concern because we know what we are dealing with and we know what the problems are so let us make an effort. 801. The Minister for Education and Culture queried the procedure for one who comes in to pay child maintenance. The CM stated that the money is collected, if the file is present upon collection the period is verified then a receipt is issued. The receipt speaks not only to the amount of money but the period in which the person has paid for. It is then stamped, signed and given back to the customer. The file is informed at the same time and then put away until monies are paid out. She further stated that the monies collected that day are normally paid out by that afternoon to go to Treasury by the very next morning. 802. The Minister for Education and Culture queried whether the money leaves the Office, goes to the Treasury and then paid out in the normal run that Treasury does. The CM said yes. 803. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that if the money ends up in the regular run at the Treasury that adds to the problem. He asked if there was any way for the money to be dispensed from the Office as opposed to having to go down to the Treasury, get caught up with all the cheques that are written. 804. The CM stated that maybe that question could be deferred to the FS who might be in a better position to respond. The FS said that it is a very slippery slope and he thinks that we need to work on making the Treasury more efficient. If the money is not in !"#$%&$"%&'%"#$%

the Treasury it would not be in the Magistrates Court either. That is just a process so it goes in and out. 805. The Minister for Education and Culture asked for something to be done about it. He stated that some people who can use a bank card and pull the money off but there are many people who cannot. He said that if we could find a way to deal with it he would be grateful. 806. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian agreed with the Minister for Education and Culture and the FS that we needed to make the system more efficient. He said that it takes too long for people to get paid and that he believes in the philosophy that when a man works, he should be paid. 807. The PSDGO stated that they did not want that cheque book. He said that they were going to take a good look at the Treasury process and take care of that issue just to ensure good and fair accountability. He further stated that something as simple as this could be a priority payment so it goes into account A and is paid out of account A and is not a part of the wider scope of things but we do not want to be writing any cheques up at the High Court. 808. The Member for the Third District enquired about what kind of reports they have been receiving regarding the delinquency between the time that the money is collected and the mother receiving it. 809. The CM said that it seemed to be happening in the latter months. She said that previously she remembered when the monies were submitted to Treasury today and the monies were available the next day so the turnover was a lot quicker. She stated that she cannot speak for the latter months and the reason for the hold up of those accounts, but confirmed that they have been getting negative reports about persons not getting their monies. She added that monies collected today are paid out by the end of that day and submitted to treasury by 9:00 a.m. the following morning. So in

!"#$%&!$%&'%"#$%

essence the Department is doing what it is required to be done in terms of dispensing the funds. 810. The Member for the Fifth District enquired whether the Department follows up with the Treasury at any time, knowing the circumstances. She queried whether we were just sending the money to the Treasury and leaving it up to them or are we following it up with somebody. She further enquired whether there was any kind of communication going on with the Treasury. 811. The CM stated that they are managing almost over 1600 maintenance records and it is difficult with the limited staff. She stated that it is difficult to check on every maintenance payment submitted to the Treasury Department. She said that if someone calls in and says that they did not receive funds then they would go back in the system and check the status, but it would be very difficult saying to one of the Accounting Officers to do this on a daily basis. 812. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about vacancies. The CM stated that they received approval from the Human Resources Manager and awaited final word from Finance. 813. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if they were looking for any additional staff. The CM said that they needed a Clerical Officer to assist as a Court Clerk. She stated that there are two Court Clerks who are between the two courts simultaneously and that petition has been approved through their DeHR but they are still waiting on funding through the Ministry of Finance. She said that they have also sought two Court Reporters, right now all cases are written on hand with exception of cases by the Magistrates when we are doing trials. This post has been recommended through HR but we need financing. She also stated that they sought the post of a Senior Executive Officer and were waiting on funding for that position. She said that they have also sought to upgrade and rename one of the positions of Bailiff to Senior Bailiff and that all of them were submitted as the initiative part of their budget.
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814.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether these positions were advertised. The CM said that she has to know whether the positions are approved through the Ministry of Finance before they could run advertisements.

815.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about what happens when Human Resources recommends these positions. The CM stated that once they recommend those positions then confirmation is given through the Ministry of Finance on whether we have the post or not. She said that once we know that then we advertise.

816.

The Member for the Third District enquired about the number of vacancies. The CM stated that there were no vacancies presently.

817.

The Minister for Health and Social Development queried where the new workers would go seeing that there was presently no office space to accommodate them. The CM stated that with the use of the Prospect Office as their second venue, there is space because they were able to alleviate the congestion at Johns Hole when everyone worked there. Some are at Prospect Reef and some are at Johns Hole.

818.

The Member for the Third District enquired about night court. The CM said that it was established in 2006 when the High Court had been designed as an initiative to address the backlog of cases that were occurring at the Magistracy when there was one Magistrate on staff. At that point in time, night court was held three nights per week every week and the Magistrate at that time was assisted by the late Cecil Dawson as an Additional Magistrate in his capacity. Subsequent to that time, it has become necessary and if we recall back in 2009/2010, when we were asked to look at ways in which we could save money. She stated that night court was one of the things that they looked at whether or not it would reduce the number of sittings. That had been done when night court went to two sittings per month where necessary. We will also recall at that point in time with the introduction of the amendment to the traffic legislation, a number of things would have previously appeared before the Court as a charge were now ticketed offences. She stated that this reduced the amount of cases
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such as the traffic matters coming before the Court. At this point in time there has been an increase in some of the traffic cases coming before the Court. While we have night court that still happens as may be required whether it be twice per month or three times per month. It is our aim to phase out as far as possible with the fact that we now have two courts working simultaneously. She stated that they are of the belief that they can eliminate the backlog that previously existed and schedule other matters that would accommodate a lot of the traffic matters that would come before the Court. 819. The Member for the Third District enquired whether there were two functioning fulltime Courts. The CM said yes. She stated that they were still having backlogs. She said that if you looked at their statistical data in 2011, you would find that they had 699 cases for traffic alone and so far in 2012, there are 103 new cases that have already been submitted to the Office for processing. 820. The Member for the Third District enquired about an example of the traffic cases that goes to night court. He queried whether it was accidents that involved more than two vehicles and someone is contesting the incident. 821. The CM stated that that incorporates some of them, however, some of them were persons who have been ticketed but failed to pay the ticketing sum. She said that if you failed to pay the sum on the ticket, the next step would be having you appear before the Court to answer to a charge. 822. The Member for the Third District stated that if someone received a ticket for a specific sum on it and they wanted to pay, it was futile for them to come to Court. He said that he thought it was the person receiving the ticket who would be requesting that the matter be brought to Court in order for him to contest the charge. 823. The CM stated that on all tickets issued, it is specified that the person had 21 days from the date of issue to comply with payment on that ticket. Thereafter when that is not done and when our records are checked by the Traffic Department or the Police
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they can verify what tickets have been paid and what tickets have not been based on records. She said that is how they would know if those persons were delinquent in the payment of those tickets. 824. The Member for the Third District stated something was not right. He said that if you issue a ticket to someone for speeding and the person does not pay the ticket then he should lose the privilege; have his drivers license revoked or suspended. He stated that you dont bring him to court, there has to be a way to take points away from people whether they dont get their vehicle re-registered or something. Thats how you deal with those ticketable offences. The only reason a person is supposed to appear before the magistrate on a ticket offence is if he is contesting the ticket. 825. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian agreed with The Member for the Third District by saying that he thinks that it clogs up a lot of Court time with all these traffic offences coming to Court. Subhead 61220 Electricity Subhead 62300 Coroners, Jurors and Witnesses 826. The CM queried whether some of the funds from Subhead 61220 Electricity could be allocated to Subhead 62300 Coroners, Jurors and Witnesses. 827. 828. The Chairman enquired as to how much was being asked to be reallocated. The CM stated at least $20,000.00. The FS said that his only concern was the existing arrears for electricity. He stated that he did not think that it would be wise to move the funds and then we were still underfunded so that would be discussed privately. 829. The PSDGO stated that they would discuss where they could get assistance with some of the funds to cover their coroners, jurors and witnesses. He stated that if it is the balance that is necessary from paying outstanding bills then they will deal with that in the chambers to get additional funds.

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830.

The Chairman thanked the panel for appearing before the SFC and for answering the questions posed by Members.

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HEAD 170 Present:

ATTORNEY GENERALS CHAMBERS

Dr. Christopher Malcolm Mr. David Archer Mrs. Kara Penn-Stoutt Mrs. Juana Samuel-Murry

Attorney General, Attorney Generals Chambers (AG) Permanent Secretary, DGO (PSDGO) Finance and Planning Officer, GGO (FPODGO) Administrative Officer, AGC (AOAGC)

831.

The Chairman welcomed the panel to the deliberations and requested that they state their names for the record to which they complied.

832.

The Member for the Third District asked if there were any vacancies. The AG said that there were two levels of vacancies and that the Chambers were divided into two divisions. He stated that there is the Civil Division and Drafting Division and that the Law Reform operates differently. He indicated that, as far as the Chambers was concerned, there were four law vacancies in the Civil Division and that there have been advertisements and interviews done by the Judicial and Legal Services Commission and recommendations have been made. He stated that he had not yet been informed of any position to be filled. He stated that one Principal Crown Counsel was vacant and three Senior Crown Counsels. In relation to the Drafting Division there was one position that was available and that was of Parliamentary Counsel. The AG further stated that the person was selected to be in place by May. In so far as the other positions were concerned, there was the position of Law Librarian, which was vacant and not yet filled and on the administrative division, the vacancies included an Assistant Secretary, and a Clerical Officer II for the receptionist position. He also stated that as for the Clerical Officer position, it was advertised last year internally but there were only external applicants so that would have to be re-

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advertised. He stated that there was also a Senior Administrative Officer post available. 833. The Member for the Third District queried the number of officers that were being paid and not on the job. The AG said that there was none that he was aware of. 834. The Member for the Third District asked what was done with the officers that were being paid but were off the job. The AG said that he was not aware of anyone related to the Chambers who was being paid and not working. 835. The Member for the Third District enquired how long ago the matter was cleared up. The AG said that he took up office on the first of January and since then he had been aware of no one who had been paid in relation to the Chambers and not working. 836. The Member for the First District requested that the records be reflected that Mr. David Penns situation was solved. He sought to clarify what the AG said about the post that was advertised internally but there were only external responses. 837. The Member for the Third District queried whether there was any one in Chambers that sat without assignment. The AG said that there was absolutely no one in the Chambers that sat without assignment. 838. The Member for the Third District asked if this was something new or if it was something that was going on all the time. He continued by saying that the Attorney Generals Chambers is very vital to the performance of Government. He said that we should not have it working with less than full efficiency. 839. The AG reassured The Member for the Third District that it was something that they were well aware of immediately after he took up office and that was the starting point and it is still a work in progress. He said that they have since streamlined a process where they have portfolios where Counsels are assigned to each Ministry. He said that they have also streamlined management internally dealing with litigation matters. He also stated that they have instituted meetings every Friday at three to discuss the work
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of the Chambers, concerning where they are going in terms of litigation matters for the following week. He said that it is a work in progress, but they expected that over the future all of these things would start to bear the fruits that we wanted. Through the portfolio counsel approach, that Counsel would become a lot more involved in the Ministries that they are assigned to and not be there simply to push paper. The AG expressed that lawyers needed to be involved from the moment of planning what they are doing to the moment that it is finally executed and are better to assist the process and to ensure that we do not have to tidy the mess at the end which could have been better dealt with at the front end. 840. The Member for the First District stated that some Attorneys needed to be attached to the Ministries in order to get the work done. He commended the AG for that initiative and ensured him that he would be one of his biggest fans. Subhead 61220 - Electricity 841. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if there were any plans to reduce the electricity consumption. He said that he noticed that it was$6,514.00 but then increased to $51,400 and now $61,100. 842. The AG stated that part of the reason for this difference was that for the earlier period in which he mentioned, the Chambers was actually located in the Central Administrative Building. He said that subsequently they moved to new premises and on those new premises they share office space with the Director of Public Prosecutions. He stated that there is in principle an arrangement where they pay two thirds of the electricity bill and the Director of Public Prosecution pays a third. During the last year, the Director of Public Prosecutions became so impecunious in their process that they ended up reallocating some of their own resources. He stated that they took on their financial burden because ultimately they were the head tenant so the ultimate burden came to them to then share. He said that they were unable to meet their own portions of it so in effect they owe us money but he does not know if they will ever be able to recover that.
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843.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether that was reflected in their 2012 allocation. The AG stated that that allocation was a situation where the allocation was bearing all of those factors in mind. He said that the estimate for 2012 was $ 61,100 which was a little less than what they were looking at for the estimated expenses of 2011 and were hoping that the two thirds and a third would be working properly.

844.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that based on the revised estimate for 2011 and 2012, electricity would be increasing by about $10,000. The AG said that he raised it with the Accounting Officers and the persons responsible for it and have been assured that it is in fact a proper reflection of what is expected.

845.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian said that he would like to suggest that they look at the more efficient ways to reduce the cost of electricity. He stated that other legal divisions were switching off lights when they did not need them and the same for air conditions. He also said that some were actually changing over to the efficient bulbs.

846.

The AG said that the building is central air and it is rented premises so while the principle is a very good thing to do there are some constraints as to how much can be done in cost saving. Subhead 61610 Overseas Travel

847.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried what was happening in 2012 that was taking the overseas travel up. The AG said that, in 2011, there were a number of required conferences that could not have been attended and the reason for this was that there were unpaid subscriptions to the point where Lexis had threatened a lawsuit and that he had to be pinching in all sorts of things to ensure that the embarrassment of a lawsuit was kept out. He stated that part of the reason for Lexis Nexis was that the Chambers was moved from the Central Administration Complex for many reasons and that there was a problem of mould in that section of the Complex. He further stated that their library resources such as the books and so on could not be used
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because of the mould on them. He said this led them to rely more heavily on online resources which they still do and, until that problem is streamlined a little bit, they will have these on-going things. He indicated that travel is essential but they had to make a sacrifice to ensure that they kept the reputation alive by avoiding a law suit. He said that this year they are seeking to ensure that the library is properly up and running and when that is up and running they will be able to do some of the things asked earlier, which is to ensure a proper system is in place for the use of the electronic resources. He said that this could then be made available to other Departments that have the need for it, which is why a good librarian is needed, to centralize resources of that type and make available not just to lawyers but to the public so that all persons will benefit. 848. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that he did not follow why that raised their overseas travel. The AG said that it has not taken the overseas travel up at all. He stated that the budgeted figure for 2011was also $90,000 but in light of the constraints and in light of what was a real and present danger then things that should have been done just were not done. 849. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether it was said that things that were to be done in 2011 were not done. The AG said that they were not done but are now properly budgeted for what is expected and anticipate with the nature of the travel. 850. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about what was to happen with the hard copies that were affected by mould. The AG stated that they will try their best to clean those and that he understood that there might be a dry ice in the process from the Permanent Secretary. He stated that if it is not available a better option would simply be to get rid of them. 851. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried how soon that conclusion would be reached. The AG said that once they get to the point of having the Librarian and
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the library process started then they will be able to determine where they will be going. Subhead 62620 Legal Expenses 852. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian commented that $104,000 was huge and what was the reason for it. The AG said that he was not involved in the budget process. He stated that he would be seeking specific reallocation in relation to that. He went on to say that it was not the actual figure that had been sorted and that there were other areas where budget allocation had been sought and not given. He said that he was very grateful that it has come and will now seek to show how best it can be used for example to ensure that the library is properly up and running. It is an area where we are trying to get reallocation. He stated that they are being generous even in these constraints to make some assistance with the justice jury project that the Permanent Secretary is looking at in relation to the resident Magistrates Court. The AG said that it is something which is there and there are good reasons for using it, while their intention is to reallocate it. Subhead 62300 Witnesses Allowances 853. The Member for the Third District stated that the funds in that Subhead serves a vital purpose for the economy locally and it is to hire local lawyers to represent the Government. He queried whether that was going to be done. 854. The AG said that they did not expect to use the entire $104,000 to do that, but if in the event there are some things that we consider very urgent, for example, something which is not budgeted for which must be done and we must find resources to do it. He stated that it is very easy right now for you or for lawyers in the Chambers or elsewhere in the Territory to give bad legal advice. He further stated that we needed to start the process which should have been started a long time ago to get the loose leaf format available and to ensure that we have an updated electronic version of the laws, which also among other things in the revision will bring the laws in line with the Human Rights Acts and other provisions of the Constitution. It is something
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which we have to start the process. He said that they received a quote from Lexis Nexis of anywhere between $400,000 and $1 million dollars depending on how you look at the quote. 855. The Member for the Third District expressed his concern that this amount of money could not do anything for that. The AG said that, through some relationships that he had with the Faculty of Law still existing he may be able to, with support, to get that figure down to under $200,000. 856. The Minister for Health and Social Development queried about whether it was an international requirement that the librarian must be a lawyer. He also enquired whether they were trying to get the library accredited. The AG said that it was not a question of being accredited. 857. The Minister for Health and Social Development queried whether they would be penalised if someone who is not a lawyer worked in the Chambers library. The AG said that it was not a question of being penalised but a question of the level of support that you can get. He stated that there is no point in having a Librarian in any library at all that cannot provide you with support. 858. The Minister for Health and Social Development queried whether someone working in a medical library must be a doctor. The AG said that he had been involved in legal research at a fairly high level and the point is that the worst and most frustrating thing that can ever happen is somebody in a law library who cannot assist you. He stated that because the way law resources have moved in the last years, electronic databases are to be properly monitored in addition to which, there is another cost saving element that they are looking at. He further stated that a Law Librarian functioning properly is the person who will enable you to ensure that your indexes are kept up to date. He stated that the Law Librarian is also the repository of information from contacts who will know where to go to beg what for you because they maintain critical connections with people.
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859.

The Minister for Health and Social Development indicated that he would be disappointed if we could not find a local Law Librarian. The AG stated that he was not suggesting for one moment that it is somebody that must be brought from overseas. He was suggesting that if you have a person functioning as a Law Librarian who cannot assist you then you are better off without one.

860.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether it was safe to say that the bulk of the funding under the legal expenses would be to create the library. The AG said yes. Subhead 62620 Legal Expenses Subhead 65400 Office Improvement and Relocation

861.

The PS indicated that it needed to be properly reflected that $60,000 from Subhead 62620 be moved to Subhead 65400, that is where it should rightfully be placed under office improvements and remodelling of the library. He added that this library was just not for the Chambers, but a public place where persons could come in and do legal research. He said that we do not have one in the BVI so it would be $60,000.00 from Subhead 62620 moved to Subhead 65400. He further stated that to help the Ministry of Finance with some of the balance necessary for coroners request then some of the funds there can be used to assist to offset the balance also.

862. 863.

The FS requested that the information be submitted in writing. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether there were lawyers that dealt with civil matters and lawyers that dealt with criminal matters.

864.

The AG said that they did not. He further explained that for the Chambers, there is a litigation division and there is a legal advice portfolio. He stated that there were three essential portfolios in that Department. He said that legal advice is giving opinions to the Ministries and Departments etc. and then there is the litigation portfolio which deals with matters where Government is being sued or suing matters in Court. He also said that there is the Drafting Division which is there to draft legislation.
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865.

The Member for the First District expressed that he was fully impressed with what the AG said he would do and that he has his support.

866.

The Chairman thanked the panel for coming and for answering the questions and concerns raised by the Members.

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HEAD 180 Present:

POLICE

Mr. Reynell Frazer

Commissioner of Police (COP), Royal Virgin Islands Police Force

Mr. David Morris

Deputy Commissioner of Police (DCOP), Royal Virgin Islands Police Force

Mr. David Archer Mrs. Kara Penn Stoutt Mrs. Luette Malone-Daniel

Permanent Secretary, DGO (PSDGO) Finance and Planning Officer, DGO (FPODGO) Financial Controller, Royal Virgin Islands Police Force (FCRVIPF)

867.

The Chairman welcomed the panel to the deliberation, and requested that they state their names for the record. The panel complied.

868.

The Commissioner of Police (COP) stated that the Deputy Commissioner of Police (DCOP) was specifically invited because he would be acting beginning April 1, 2012 while the COP was on pre-retirement leave. COP also stated that the DCOP would be assisting in answering any questions posed.

869.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that the COP expressed in his report that was now before the Committee that there were some challenges that did not allow for achieving goals for 2011 and enquired what the most serious of the challenges were. The COP answered that human resources in terms of manpower was the most serious challenge.

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870.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired how many new officers were added to the force in 2011. The COP responded seven new Constables were added to the RVIPF.

871.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if the seven officers recruited were part of the 285 staff. The COP indicated that the 285 staff was inclusive of civilian staff and that seven new police Constables were recruited into the RVIPF.

872.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian noted that there was 140 Probationary Constables listed in the budget and asked if they were all on probation. The DCOP clarified that there are 140 Constables, seven (7) of which were on probation and just returned from Barbados. There were ten (10) probation constables who were at the end of their probationary period and would be confirmed before the Police Service Commission for permanent and pensionable status. There were also a further 3 who were recently recruited in January 2012 and would be going to Barbados later in February 2012 for six (6) months of training. There were currently 209 officers, including those just recruited and 225 positions of which 16 were still vacant.

873.

The Minister for Education and Culture enquired if they were aware of the Youth Unemployment Register (YUR) and the upcoming job fair on February 9, 2012 and extended a personal invitation to the COP and DCOP and their HR staff to assist in finding the numbers that the RVIPF needed to staff the organisation. The COP expressed his gratitude for the invitation but also indicated that there were specific requirements to be met for entry into the Force and assured that if the persons from the youth unemployment registry met the requirements that they could be successfully recruited.

874.

The Minister for Education and Culture stated that it was surprising the number of persons that have degrees and could not find work. He confirmed that the basic academic requirement for entry into the RVIPF was a high school diploma. The COP stated that a background check was also a very significant requirement.
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875.

The Minister for Education and Culture indicated that he would have information forwarded to the COP regarding the job fair.

876.

The DCOP confirmed that there were 16 vacant positions however, the vacancies were not funded and therefore could not be filled. So even if the RVIPF were to participate in the job fair and ask persons to apply, they would be unable to hire without the positions first being funded. Based on a review of the 16 vacant positions, the DCOP stated that in the immediate future RVIPF needed to recruit ten Constables, two Sergeants, and three Auxiliary Officers. In addition, the DCOP spoke about the development of the police control room with CCTV cameras that were never resourced for funding and that it would be necessary to relocate two Sergeants, four Constables and four Auxiliary officers from frontline policing to staff the control room at least minimally.

877.

The Member for the Third District stated that in 2011 permission and funding was given to hire 16 officers and enquired if these were the same 16 positions the DCOP was referring to from last year.

878.

The DCOP explained that in 2011 there were approximately 25 vacancies of which ten were filled and it was hoped that the remaining 16 would be filled this year but the funding had not been provided for the 16 officers.

879.

The Member for the Third District stated that he was puzzled and did not understand why the funding was not provided because approval came with the full understanding that it would be funded. He enquired if approval was raised at the levels that it should have been raised. He further stated that never has the police wanted something and did not get it and he wanted to know why it was not funded.

880.

The DCOP stated that the draft budget was submitted and the vacancies were taken out of the draft funding allocation so the only funding for salaries and allowances, etc. was based on the people that were already in the job, hence the funding was not there.

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881.

The Member for the Third District stated for clarity that the previous Cabinet approved the hiring of new officers and wanted to know if those were among the vacancies that currently existed. The COP reiterated that there was no funding

available. Yes, there were vacancies but due to lack of funding the positions were not filled. The positions that were being referred to now were part of the vacancies as they were not filled initially when the approval was given. 882. The Member for the Third District expressed that he was still confused and wondered why he was only hearing this information now, when he had been inquiring all along how things were progressing and was being told that things were moving along as expected only to now find out differently. He solicited the input of the Financial Secretary. 883. The FS stated that there must have been a misunderstanding somewhere and explained that the Ministry of Finance (MoF) does everything in its power to fund any requests that come from the Police Force. He suspected that wires were crossed somewhere and further stated when it came to funding for RVIPF; there was not an issue with MoF. 884. The Member of the Third District enquired about the IPOC funds and if the RVIPF exhausted their access to those funds. The FS explained that the IPOC funds would be avoided for operational purposes. The COP explained that there were recruitment efforts and applications were received. However, there were recruitment difficulties in identifying persons to meet the qualifications for hire. Hence, the reason why applications for funding were not put forth was because only when persons had been identified for recruitment would an application be made. 885. The Member for the Third District stated that given the Territorys circumstances, the RVIPF should not be shortchanged regarding staffing and equipment; that they should be given what they want as long as the requests were justifiable, or the Members would be blamed for not responding to crime and for the police officers not being able to respond in a timely manner to calls. It was further stated that there needed to
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be police presence at all times wherever possible and the 16 vacancies needed to be filled. 886. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that there were 225 officers on the nominal roll and enquired what complement of officers were needed based on the current need, our fiscal challenges, the need to patrol the Territory, control crime in the specific areas of the community (commercial and residential), and take care of all our needs. 887. The COP responded that, while the nominal roll indicated that there were 225 officers, in actuality the strength of the Force was only at 209 officers. He indicated at least another 60 additional officers were needed to patrol the streets and provide optimal service to the Territory. He went on to state that the number was unrealistic at this time, but can be a goal over the next few years to supply the needs and deliver a good service to the entire Territory and not just Tortola. 888. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian clarified that 270 officers are needed and enquired about the 49 non-established (N/E) staff. The COP indicated that the 49 N/E represented support staff/civilians such as mechanics, cleaners, maintenance crew, carpenters, etc. that would service all the stations. 889. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if the Assistant Commissioner position was filled. The COP responded that the position of Assistant Commissioner was abolished. 890. The Member for the Eighth District asked why the position was abolished. The COP responded that the decision to abolish the position was made at the National Security level. 891. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the role of the Business Support Director. The DCOP explained that the position was created two years ago and had the responsibility for the business support within the organisation including the Finance Comptroller, human resources administration, Facilities Manager !"#$%&&"%&'%"#$%

including mechanics, etc.

Basically, the civilian staff came directly under the

Business Support Director who also worked closely with the DCOP in terms of the development of the Force plan, and formed part of the senior management group that answered to the COP. 892. The Minister for Health and Social Development referred to a holistic approach to policing. He stated that crime and potential crime that he was hearing about on the street was cause for crime and enquired how many more police officers were needed today to put on the street to alleviate the potential of what could happen. 893. The DCOP stated that a review was done of the RVIPF and presented to National Security Council. He stated that at minimum 297 police officers were need to operate at the minimal optimal level. He explained that the number was based on optimal deployment in terms of the current crime trends including events that were happening across the Territory such as festival, horseracing, other events that would occur as tourism develops, security around the Courts, VIP visitors to the Territory requesting drivers and security, and the upcoming Royal visit. The figure also included

providing a community policing presence, beat patrol, and security for the Courts, etc. The DCOP indicated that it would be unrealistic to request for that amount of officers due to funding issues. 894. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired how many more additional police officers were needed. The DCOP responded that, against their current strength, to take them up to that level, an additional 88 police officers were needed. 895. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired how long it would take to recruit 88 police officers. The DCOP responded that it would take 3 to 4 years to recruit the additional 88 police officers. 896. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that todays requirement will be inadequate today in the next 3 to 4 years.

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897.

The DCOP explained that it would currently take 3 to 5 months to recruit an officer to send a group to Barbados for 6 months for training and upon return to the BVI there would be an additional training period. Newly recruited officers to the force would not be operationally viable for about 12 to 18 months before they could be effective police officers. The DCOP further stated that officers could be contracted on a short term basis to meet the requirement while simultaneously new officers would be recruited to bring through the ranks at the same time. This would address the shortterm and long-term needs.

898.

The Minister for Health and Social Development averaged that 22 officers would be recruited per year to reach the required 88 in four years and enquired about where the recruits would be accommodated in terms of office space, and the additional costs related to that.

899.

The DCOP roughly estimated that it will cost $750,000 to recruit 22 officers per year. The DCOP also stated that an increase in the force increased costs all around to provide support to the individual officers. As it stood now, Road Town Police Station was currently too small, similarly the same for East End, West End, Jost Van Dyke, and Anegada because they all needed work done. Only Virgin Gorda and Cane Garden Bay stations had viable spaces.

900.

The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that a dollar figure could not really be given to recruit 22 new officers. The COP stated that only a rough estimate was given but a more accurate figure can be calculated and provided for the recruitment of 22 new constables.

901.

The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired if he had the power to give the $1.5 million dollars needed to complete the recruitment exercise, what could the public expect. The COP stated that the public could expect a greater police presence and higher police visibility throughout the Territory, even with the 22 officers. However, visibility would increase over time as the complement of officers increased over time.
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902.

The Member for the Third District enquired if one officer in a patrol car could do the work of two officers on foot. The DCOP answered that, in terms of responding to a call, one officer in a patrol car could be more effective, but not in terms of patrolling in a neighbourhood. He stated that the public wanted the visibility/presence and engagement of officers in the community neighbourhood, not just driving through their streets. He declared that foot patrol officers provided reassurance and visible presence on the streets.

903.

The DCOP stated that, in terms of the performance of the RVIPF as it related to crime trends increasing, the end of year figures for 2011 overall was 1,754 crimes compared to 1796 crimes committed in 2010, which represented a reduction of 42 less victims of crime in the Territory. He further stated that the detection rate increased from thirty-two percent (32%) to thirty-six percent (36%), so the officers currently employed were working albeit it could be better with more officers, which would in turn decrease the amount of overtime of the current officers. The DCOP went on to state that the issue was around specific crimes in relation to burglaries, which had increased and was predominantly in the Road Town area; there was also an increase in street robberies. So it was around specific crimes that was of concern and not around overall crime. The DCOP stated that RVIPF was working proactively which was evident in the recent seizures of drugs and money entering the Territory, arrests, and upcoming extradition hearings.

904.

The DCOP further stated that officers had been working in schools through the DARE programme. He would like to see an increase in the number of officers in the schools, but unable to due to staffing constraints. He stated that he would like to have a permanent policing officer in the secondary school, Elmore Stoutt High School. It was their ambition, referring to the 88 additional officers that the Force needs, to be able to have school liaison officers as part of the preventive measures in the High School. The DCOP stated that the RVIPF wanted to have neighborhood police officers, dedicated officers, in some of the more problematic areas to engage the community. He stated that it worked in other places like the U.S., UK and other
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Caribbean countries, and it needed to work here in the BVI and at the present time there was not sufficient staff to accomplish that. The DCOP further agreed with the Minister for Education and Culture that the RVIPF were reactionary in terms of responding to calls and responding to crime as it occurred, as opposed to engaging with the community looking at local problems, local needs and prevention. 905. The DCOP stated that there was a trend among young people who have committed crimes and disorder and indicated that would happen in an economy experiencing a recession and increased un-employment. He stated that our young people had been affected, evident through some of the crimes that were committed. The DCOP stated that the RVIPF was engaged heavily with the schools, and would like to be engaged more, but again there was a limited number of officers. He stated that RVIPF was engaged with the Ministries and participating in events and fairs and careers days in schools. He further maintained that police officers had been encouraged to get out

of their vehicles while driving around and engage with the street gangs/youths on the street. The DCOP admitted that there were issues between the traditional

confrontational policing and youth on the street scenarios and that was where the neighborhood policing comes in. He indicated that he would like to recruit more Auxiliary Officers engaged on the streets, not just for traffic management but more so to engage young people. He referred to the 88 police officers that would be necessary to get more community police officers on the street. 906. The COP added that he had personally spearheaded community meetings over the years and was able to get more of his officers involved, however he would have liked to have seen more young people come out to those meetings, but only the good folks and the older folks who do not commit crimes were the ones who were coming to the meetings and talking about what was happening. He stated that in his official capacity as Commissioner of Police he had gone into schools to speak with the children and steer them away from criminality because they were the young people of tomorrow. He indicated that he had even made attempts to talk to groups of youngsters but they just walk away and were at a loss as how to reach those children.
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He suggested regrouping and strategising to find a way to engage those youngsters who do not want to see or hear the police, particularly those that may be involved in criminality. 907. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that an approach must be identified to reach those youngsters in the community. The COP stated that he was open to suggestions from anyone including Members of the House who could provide ideas on how to reach out to young persons. 908. The Minister for Communications and Works enquired if there was a wish or desire by all concerned to work with the police to help solve the problem of crime in the Territory. He stated his question extended specifically to the Members of the HoA, in that it was felt that the RVIPF was supported for their efforts based on the questions that were posed to them, and what was being suggested and offered. He queried whether or not there was a sense that Government and police were together in the fight against crime or was it the view that the Members of the HoA were adversarial to the RVIPF. The COP stated that he personally felt that the Members of the HoA were supportive. 909. The Minister for Communications and Works ask the COP not to tell them what they wanted to hear but what he really thought, so that the real issues could be dealt with. 910. The COP responded that he was asked earlier what the critical issues were and repeated that human resources was the most critical issue. He stated that in principle the support from Government was there and sometimes it was assumed. He further stated that it came down to one thing basically, and that was money; the RVIPF needed officers and were responsible for their recruitment. The COP stated that whatever the request made on behalf of the RVIPF be approved and financed to make it possible. The COP went on to say that, over the years, he had gotten the support from the Government, much of it in principle, and indicated that he understood that he would not be able to get all that was asked for immediately. He added that the 88 police officers needed could be appointed over a time frame of three to four years.
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The COP reiterated that he honestly felt that the support from the Government was visible. 911. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that he appreciated the COPs response and that he sensed that the Commissioner understood the question that was posed to him. He further stated that he did not believe that it was evident that everyone was onboard with what needed to be achieved and referred to The Member for the Third Districts comments earlier about whatever it takes and the Member for the Third District and the past Government were willing to give the police whatever they needed to make sure that the issues of crime were solved as quickly as possible. He continued that in the past, and the Government that was currently sitting now, based on the questions that were asked, was willing to do what was necessary even if it meant perhaps shifting monies. He stated that 1,700 crimes in a year, while comparatively speaking, was a lot of crime in the context of the Virgin Islands, and therefore if it dropped or increased by fifty or forty something, it was material but immaterial in the wider context. 912. The Minister for Communications and Works enquired that if it was understood that Government may be willing to give the RVIPF whatever was needed, but when RVIPF got it, he did not know how confident the Government would be that the resources would be utilised well enough, quickly enough, efficiently enough with certain special delivery channels to make it happen. He stated that the HoA needed assurance that there would be special efforts made to ensure that the rise of crime would be first stopped, a serious reduction would be evident over the next several years, and that a special effort toward proactive preventative measures would be put in place to prevent crime. He stated that all over the world, there were major changes in crime over a period of years, specifically mentioning Mayor Giuliani from New York and the different efforts put forth in London also. He emphasised that the SFC under the leadership of the MOF would be willing to suggest that if the COP could assure that crime would be seriously tackled in the next 12 to 48 months and gave a serious programme of how that would be done while fostering the HoAs comfort
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level that something very dramatic would happen, then all 13 Members of the HoA along with the Speakers prodding would ensure that something serious happened in terms of providing the resources. 913. The Minister for Communications and Works also stated that it appeared as though one party was not comfortable that the requests were being made and there was an apparent miscommunication regarding and important matter like delivering and solving crimes. The police did not seem to be aware that if they made a request for 16 new officers that money would be made available even if it was not in the budget; the message that was given was once the request was made the funding would be made available. He stated that his point was that it was a very serious matter and was seriously concerned that the police and the HoA were not collectively together. The Minister stated that he did not feel that the COP was confident coming before the HoA to ask for assistance and felt that the HoA was holding back on the police and vice versa. He further stated that the police do a good job but it could be a greater job in terms of urgent delivery of the services that were needed. He continued that if urgent delivery was needed and that urgent delivery requires that certain funding was in place, the confidence was lacking on the part of the police that the HoA would approve it. He again stated that the wires were crossed somewhere and enquired how it could be fixed. 914. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that if the COP was to say that he needed 22 police officers, it would take a special team from police to recruit persons from somewhere and get them trained or recruit trained officers from somewhere quickly or whatever it takes and then in the next six months there were 25 officers on the street and not in the office or behind a desk. He further stated that every time he looked around Road Town he saw a police every 2 to 3 hours in the middle of the commercial district and it says to a criminal that he/she had a good chance of slipping in and out of town before the police can even respond. He further stated that crimes were happening in the middle of the day (i.e. recent jewelry store and Eureka robbery) and enquired why there could not be more officers back and forth on the street. He
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stated that he was trying to find where the breakdown was between the police and the HoA, in order to identify solutions and was not here just to stop police from having money to execute their projects. He continued to say that tourism cannot flourish and children cannot learn if crime is the problem, and nothing happens if crime continues to permeate the society. He maintained that the solution was the police and HoA working together. 915. The Member for the First District stated that a two-prong approach was necessary: the immediate crime that exists now and how to effectively deal with it, which was articulated by the Minister for Communications and Works. He indicated that, having been in the education system for many years, he noted that the majority of times that he read in the paper, crimes were being committed by youngsters that were already problematic in the schools. He stated that there was a paradigm shift as it related to parenting. He explained that blame should not be placed on the educational system, but parents should take greater responsibility for the development of their children. He maintained that the Government had to find ways to strengthen the system especially when addressing parenting issues. 916. The Member for the First District expressed that he was glad that we were still moving toward the technical aspect. In addition, he stated that stiffer penalties were needed for those persons who run to an elected official whether past or present administration, for what was happening in the schools. He indicated that the schools were backed up and that we had to do a better job of changing our mentality about how children were being raised. He stated that children were too loose and free and he was a firm believer in the Curfew Law, although many others were not taking it as seriously as he was, noting that it only got through its First Reading in the last Session of the House. He maintained that the Curfew Law needed revisiting as it would help with crime and help some parents who were having difficulty parenting. He reiterated that it was a two-prong approach in terms of 1) addressing immediate crime and 2) in terms of how we deal with the school system and the parenting approach with certain deliverables as it pertained to education overall. He stated that
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he sympathised with the police from the aspect that they were dealing with a resulting problem. He recalled times when he tried to stick with his guns to support the schools and was pressured from talk shows and a few elected officials. maintained that matters would be worse if school rules were not adhered to. 917. The Minister for Communications and Works enquired how the police and Government could work together better and what the Polices feelings were towards Government. 918. The COP enquired from one of the Members if he could identify his jewelry that he had spoken about earlier and pointed out that the lack of not being able to identify ones own jewelry was a major challenge. 919. The COP stated that the RVIPF had held a number of community meetings and coming out of those meetings were requests for more foot patrol and police presence in the street and not just passing by in vehicles now and then. He admitted that they were short staff and unable to have the right complement of officers in each District /Territory. He further stated that victims of crimes were approached and did not cooperate with police because it was their intention to take matters into their own hands and seek revenge. He further stated that the police had questioned persons identified as having knowledge of or who witnessed a crime, but they deny any knowledge of a crime, did not see or hear anything, but would still turn around and tell other people what they saw or heard. 920. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that, if persons were willing to tell everybody but the police, it sent a specific message of trust or mistrust. The COP admitted that, coming out of community meetings, there was a general consensus of mistrust of the police. He stated that the crime-stoppers hotline initiative was He

implemented to alleviate the sense of mistrust persons had for the police. However, the initiative was not very successful, unlike in the USVI where persons actually called the hotline and were rewarded for their successful tips. He stated that he had
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encouraged persons to talk to Ministers in Government or even members of the Clergy who could then pass the information to the police, but to no avail. 921. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if crime-stoppers was funded and persons paid rewards like in the USVI. The DCOP responded that the crime-stoppers was launched approximately one year ago and was not funded. He added that crimestoppers was not a police initiative but was deliberately created through a separate Board with no reward schemes being paid for because it was never funded for rewards. He stated that the Banking Association donated $25,000 toward the scheme to assist with priming it. He further stated that there should be some onus in terms of funding the reward scheme so that the Crime-stoppers Board, chaired by Kevin Smith, could actually proactively seek information through crime-stoppers anonymous. The DCOP also stated that he recognised that people do not talk to the police and maybe do not trust the police, but there were also other issues in terms of fear of their own safety, fear of going to court and having to give evidence if people come forward officially. He further stated that the police got information, the same information through intelligence services, police officers and other sources that were followed up, but that does not necessarily mean that it would result in evidence whereby the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) would prosecute individuals because we needed evidence to prosecute. He stated that they know a lot of what was going on, but there is a difference between knowing what was going on and obtaining the evidence. 922. The DCOP stated that there were issues in the Force regarding confidentiality in terms of trust and recognising when the public calls, the information was for policing purposes only. He recognised that there were cultural work and discipline issues that needed to be overcome and stated that there were issues of trust in terms of reporting things to the police and protection of witnesses coming forward. The DCOP

indicated that there was a strong witness protection programme in place for the Territory and there were a number of people coming forward and giving evidence in Court, etc. around some of our more serious crimes. The DCOP also stated that one
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of the biggest issues discussed at community meetings was about trust and building that trust and confidence in the force. He stated that the Police Force needed to recognise that they needed to be stronger in their engagement. 923. The DCOP further stated that policing was a complicated business that stretches from a continuum of neighborhood engagement and policing, dealing with local issues, local priorities through local cops, right through to dealing with street robberies, burglaries, CID, inquisitive crime investigations right through to the organised crime that goes on in the Territory, drug trafficking, human smuggling, fire arms trafficking, all of which had to be dealt with by the RVIPF and required different skills from different officers right up the gamut. He continued by saying that better technology was necessary and referred to a recently solved murder and bank robbery through DNA analysis that had to be sent overseas to be analysed. He added that the RVIPF needed to improve its forensic capabilities in the Territory because it costs money to outsource forensics overseas. In addition, he stated that witness protection costs money because witnesses must be sent overseas for their protection. He stated that there is an issue about the cost of policing for the Territory. 924. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that he recognised that crime is being solved even though it may take a long time. He stated that philosophically, all the things the DCOP spoke to (i.e. better forensics, etc.), if he understood the Governments message that the Government was prepared to stand behind the RVIPF financially. 925. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that the RVIPF had his full support as an elected official, in whatever the RVIPF does to ensure public safety and protect us from crime. He further stated that a lot of times unfair things are stated and when the good things happen rarely is thanks given. He expressed his thanks for the positive impact that the RVIPF had made.

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926.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired, given the financial constraints and bearing in mind that the police budget is a significant amount of the national budget, if reallocation of funds were considered. Subhead 60400 - Allowances

927.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian noted that there was over $2 million allocated under allowances, and under the description of National Security Allowance (NSA) that $961,950 was allotted and enquired how was that allowance allocated and what happens with that money.

928.

The COP responded that the National Security Allowance was created in 2008 and was allocated by rank from lowest rank of Constable to highest rank of Commissioner of Police, and the amount progressively increased by rank.

929.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if the NSA was in addition to salary. The DCOP responded affirmatively that the NSA was in addition to salary and that it replaced the rent allowance. He stated that the decision was made to combine the various allowances including the rent allowance to form the NSA. The DCOP explained further that the NSA was introduced to cover allowances for officers, in recognition of the 24-hour availability and responsibility that the police had in terms of the security of the Territory, the inherent risks of the job, and the increased risk of being targeted or reprisals as a result of officers doing their job.

930.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired the $100,800 budgeted for Detective Allowance. The COP stated that not all officers received the Detective Allowance, but it was allocated to only officers in the CID Major Crimes Unit who investigated certain types of crimes and, once the officer was removed from that Unit, the allowance ceased.

931.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if the officer was removed from the Detective Allowance if he reverted to the NSA. The COP explained that all officers on the RVIPF received the standard NSA including the detectives; the
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Detective Allowance is separate and was in addition to the NSA allowance. He added that, depending on the Division an officer is assigned, he/she may get two or three allowances and noted that detectives would get Plain Clothes Allowance in addition to the Detective and NSA allowances. Subhead 61220 - Electricity 932. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about electricity consumption and if any consideration was given in terms of reducing, identifying and utilising alternative sources of energy such as solar energy, compact fluorescent bulbs, shutting off air condition units. 933. The DCOP stated that a review was completed as it related to savings around electricity, including air condition units. It was realised that it cost more to shut air condition units off and on rather than leave them on and set the temperature control to shut off automatically. The DCOP also indicated that light sensors were considered as a means to reduce utility costs. He stated that it costs money to save money, and efforts were being made to manage the budget towards innovation to save future costs. The COP stated that the Facilities Manager contributed suggestions towards ways to reduce utility costs. Subhead 61620 Local Travel 934. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the $190,300 budgeted for this Subhead, and what local travel entailed. 935. The DCOP explained that Local Travel is for travel allowance for the officers who were going away from their normal place of duty and away from their homes and were entitled to claim for their expenses in relation to that. He also explained that local travel included officers traveling to and from the sister islands (i.e. officers who were posted to one of the Sister Islands were entitled to return twice a month to Tortola, if their families lived on Tortola).

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Subhead 62670 Dietary Services 936. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian noted that the budget for dietary services increased remarkably for 2012 and enquired why. The COP stated that the amount was not the amount requested but would have some of those monies reallocated to three other areas: Subhead 61400 - Repairs and Maintenance, Subhead 61510 Office Rent, and Subhead 61430 Maintenance Contracts. Subhead 61510 Office Rent 937. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about office rent for North Sound, Cane Garden Bay, and specifically the Rodus Building (located at the Marine Base). The COP indicated that the RVIPF rented the third floor of the Rodus

Building. 938. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if the reason that rent was so high was due to the Rodus Building being located in a prime location. The COP stated that the RVIPF had desperately sought office space years ago and the Rodus Building was the most suitable space found at the time. He stated that the lease for the Rodus Building was for 10 years and the RVIPF was six years into the lease. 939. The Minister for Communications and Works requested an explanation about the disparity about the funds allocated under Dietary Services from the FS. The Budget Coordinator (BC) responded that the MOF would have to check the submission that was made. She also stated that the request for the transfer would just need to be submitted in writing. Subhead 61400 Repairs and Maintenance 940. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired how often the RVIPF vehicles were replaced. The COP stated that he would like to replace RVIPF vehicles every year, because of the mileage and use of vehicles. He also stated that there were RVIPF vehicles on the road for ten years. The DCOP stated that in terms of the RVIPF current fleet there were thirty seven (37) vehicles, but that they required forty five (45). He continued that the vehicles in terms of age ranged from 1994 and 1998
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to the most recent vehicles bought in 2011. He further stated that the vehicles should be boarded and replaced, however if a vehicle was boarded it did not mean that funds would be available to replace it. Vehicles should be replaced every three to five years depending on what the vehicle was used for to maximise its resale value and to reassure that save costs in terms of maintenance and repairs. 941. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian indicated that based on the figures given by the DCOP that the RVIPF was short of eight vehicles at this time. The DCOP confirmed that an additional eight vehicles were needed and that a request for funding for three vehicles was included in 2012 budget. 942. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired what was done when a vehicle exceeded its RVIPF lifetime use. The COP stated that a request to the Board of Survey would be made to have a vehicle boarded and it would be the responsibility of the Board of Survey to take action, and decide whether to auction or sell the vehicle. Unfortunately, the COP stated that there were many instances where the same vehicles that were requested to be boarded due to age, mileage and maintenance costs, would continue to be used by the RVIPF because there were no replacement vehicles forthcoming. He stated that it had been a struggle regarding this issue because of complaints from officers, as well as the concern for safety of the officers. 943. The Member for the Third District enquired if a request was made in the 2012 budget for the eight vehicles needed by the RVIPF. The DCOP responded that a request was not made for the eight vehicles, but only for three in the 2012 budget. 944. The Member for the Third District enquired where the request for the three vehicles was made. The DCOP responded that the request was made in the 2012 budget. 945. The Member for the Third District stated that the police had a special avenue that had been used many times to get the things that they had been asking for. He expressed that he had difficulty understanding why the RVIPF was short eight vehicles when a special avenue had been designated for them to obtain what they needed.
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He

enquired why the matter was not taken directly to Cabinet, and since the creation of the National Security Council why was the request not brought up there. 946. The DCOP stated that, in terms of the vehicle requirement for the RVIPF, in recognising the current austerity budgets and financial situation of the Territory, the concern was what the RVIPF could manage with at the present time through this financial year. 947. The Member for the Third District stated that the DCOP answer was unacceptable because problems of the Territory, when it comes to crime, do not care. He pointed out that when the financial situation of the Territory gets bad, crime gets worse and that was when the police would have to step up their vigilance. He stated that the Territory could do with one more pothole but the RVIPF should not have to do without a vehicle. 948. The Member for the Eighth District enquired if the RVIPF was considering standardising the vehicles that were used, as he observed that there were multiple types, makes and models of vehicles. He also enquired about a plan for standardising the vehicles that the RVIPF utilised. 949. The COP stated that, over the years, there had been discussions and efforts made to identify what was fit for the purpose for the police. He stated that the RVIPF needed durable lasting vehicles that were strong and sturdy. He recalled that Land Rovers were once considered but that was no longer a consideration and has since been trying different brands vehicles, including Mitsubishis. He stated that mechanics for PWD and RVIPF were recommending Toyotas which were more durable, but of course were more costly than other vehicles. He mentioned also that sometimes the RVIPF would get deals on some brands of vehicles and that was why the RVIPF has so many different brands, but that they were now trying to focus on standardising their vehicles and moving toward Toyotas as the preferred brand.

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950.

The Member for the Eighth District stated that the juggling between different brands of vehicles were costly in the long term as it related to maintenance and repair. The COP stated that the best way forward was to standardise their vehicles similar to how the USVI had standardised theirs.

951.

The Member for the Eighth District enquired about going forward in terms of funding for vehicles and would it be based on a plan for sourcing a particular brand or type of vehicle in terms of overall maintenance and durability. The COP stated that one of the adverse comments received when sourcing vehicles was that it was unfair to do so from one dealer. He further stated that he had the experience of being chastised after a complaint to Members of the Legislature because a dealer was not getting in on the deal.

952.

The Member for the Third District stated that the RVIPF vehicle should be custom made and they should not be using the regular vehicles that civilians were using.

953.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if there were any technical assistance that could be accessed through the UK or the FCO for the RVIPF to be able to get special built vehicles.

954.

The COP responded that last year there were sources identified in the UK that were recommending the Land Rover and it seemed like good deal and the cost would include retrofitting. However, on further inquiry it was revealed that the maintenance would be extremely high, much higher, so that was an important factor that needed to be taken into consideration. He stated that the RVIPF was given an offer for a Land Rover, the new type.

955.

The Member for the Eighth District stated that everywhere he had travelled every Police Department had standardised vehicles, including the U.S., Europe and the UK, and Asia, and it had to be working as those countries continued to standardise their fleets. He stated that it must be cost effective that everyone was doing it.

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956.

The Member for the Third District stated that the vehicles for the police should be made specifically for them, the engines and drive trains needed to be different. He maintained that not just sirens and lights make a vehicle a police vehicle.

957.

The Member for the Eighth District stated that it should be explored if it was cost effective to move toward the standardisation of RVIPF vehicles. He added that it could not be cost effective to have varying brands as it was now. Subhead 60620 Health Insurance

958.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if all police officers were on life insurance. The COP stated that police officers were entitled to free medical insurance and that the Government had the responsibility to pay the entire amount on behalf of the RVIPF officers.

959.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian clarified that the explanation under the Subhead specifically indicated medical insurance and life insurance. The COP stated that it was his understanding that the previous insurance had life insurance coverage but the current insurance does not, and it was for all police and auxiliary officers.

960.

The Member for the Third District enquired if the officers would now expect to receive life insurance as part of their package. The COP stated that, as it stands, only the medical aspect could be considered. He stated that, if an officer needed to go overseas, it would happen and routinely happened.

961.

The Member for the Third District enquired if the notes in the subhead should be amended to remove life insurance. The COP confirmed that the notes should be amended.

962.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated the amount of $737,900 that was budgeted for medical insurance and enquired the name of the insurance carrier. The COP responded that BUPA was the insurance carrier for the entire Service.

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963.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that the cost of the medical insurance was high. The DCOP explained that, in terms of the health insurance, the amount indicated covered the entire amount of the contribution at the rate that BUPA scheme was costing in terms of the coverage for police officers.

964.

The Member for the Third District stated that police officers get full coverage, free, unlike other employees.

965.

The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the insurance coverage was not free.

966.

The Member for the Third District stated that Government paid health insurance for police officers.

967.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired what would happen to an offduty police officer who was injured and hospitalised as it related to his medical expenses. The COP responded that the medical insurance would assist with medical expenses.

968.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if assistance would include psychological evaluation if six months later an officer suffered from flashbacks or depression and needed to be evaluated. The COP responded that all aspects would have to be considered and, if there was a need for it, the necessary provision would be made.

969.

The BC stated that there was an additional vote, Subhead 62260 - Medical Expenses that covered all medical expenses related to police officers that were not covered by the insurance.

970.

The Chairman thanked the panel for their contribution and frankness in addressing the concerns by the Members.

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HEAD 185 Present:

LAW REFORM COMMISSION

Dr. Christopher Malcolm

Attorney General on behalf of Mr. Ray Harris, Chairman, Law Reform Commission (AG)

Mr. David Archer Mrs. Kara Penn-Stoutt Mrs. Layla Jones

Permanent Secretary, DGO (PSDGO) Finance and Planning Officer, DGO (FPODGO) Senior Administrative Officer, LRC (SAOLRC)

971.

The Chairman asked the panel to state their names and positions for the record to which they complied.

972.

The AG informed the Members that the current Chairmans contract would be expiring in April and there were questions as to whether or not he would be seeking to extend it. He stated that he wrote a letter indicating that, as of now, he did not intend to do so. The AG said that he had dialogue since with the Governor relating to the matter and that the matter is something which is still fluid as to whether or not Mr. Harris will leave at some point and that there were other situations to be dealt with. He indicated that Mr. Harris is ill and is also off-island and that they are scheduled to meet on 9th February and thereafter would be in a much better position to know how the Law Reform Commission is likely to be moving forward. He also indicated that they would speak on how they could work together with the Chambers to better serve the interest of the Government and people.

973.

The Minister for Communications and Works asked the Attorney General to explain whether the Law Reform Commission was close to being completed.

974.

The AG stated that Law Reform is an unending exercise and that there is always room and scope for law revision and consulting exercises. He said that the real question was
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whether or not there were intentions to have it on an ongoing basis, or on a more periodic basis, bringing their resources as and when significant reform exercises are needed. He said that in every democracy, if your laws are to remain up-to-date then there must be a law reform. The only question would be how best you can work the magic for the budget constraints. 975. The Minister for Communications and Works queried whether the bulk of the reform that we were working on in terms of the long outstanding issue that was needed to be fixed and if indeed the bulk of it was finished, if we could now look towards a periodic Law Reform Commission, rather than continuing with half a million dollars a year. 976. The AG expressed that, since the 2007 Constitution, there were a number of laws that needed to be updated. Some of them needed to be revised significantly in order to bring them in line with the fundamental rights of the Constitution. He stated that significant work still remains to be done and that it comes back down to logistics and how you do it. Subhead 61400 Repairs and Maintenance 977. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried what was wrong with the vehicle that repair costs were totalled at $7,300. 978. The AG explained that the vehicle is not the newest of vehicles. The Chambers of the Attorney General used to have a vehicle which was to be replaced but was never replaced and what you have happening now is that the Law Reform and the Chambers share the vehicle which means that it is probably used much more often than it ordinarily would be used. He stated that he does not know what repair costs are like but he suspected that it was in light of the constant use and wear and tear, and as vehicles age they tend to cost more in terms of ongoing maintenance. He said that all of that may well have some bearing on the figures.

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Subhead 61510 Rent 979. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian indicated that the rent had gone up and queried whether the lease was renewed with the current landlord. The AG stated that he did not know that there was a renewal of lease, however standard lease arrangements tend to have some inclusion in them and it may well be that an increment came in as far as this is concern. 980. The Minister for Communications and Works said that he had been looking out for some areas in the budget where Divisions and Departments may be significantly reduced with austerity measures and this looked like one based on what he was hearing. He expressed that the half a million dollars needed to go somewhere else. He said that expenditure was a $100,000 less than it was budgeted this year, the actual expenditure being roughly $90,000. The Minister said that we needed to start wondering when we are going to reduce this expenditure and if Mr. Harris is going in April, which it seems to be, then his full salary shouldnt be budgeted and whether the Commission will continue is the question. He requested the answer for that from a budgetary standpoint. 981. The AG said that he mentioned it in the report that he gave earlier and indicated that he was looking at a cheaper method of doing the law revision consultation exercise. He stated that he was looking to see how we could get the Law Reform Commission much more involved in a much needed exercise. He said that the revision and reform exercises are not costs and that they are going to be recovered because they were going to sell the reports. He said that it is merely a front end expenditure which in a very short time will be recovered in any event. He stated that he spoke with the Governor and the intention was that subsequent to his meeting with Mr. Harris, they would both meet with the Premier to deal with some of these issues and how they could better streamline resources and better maximize the use of resources available.

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982.

The Member for the Third District queried whether the Minister for Communications and Works suggested the amalgamation of the Law Reform with the Attorney General Chambers.

983.

The Minister for Communications and Works stated that he was suggesting based on what he was hearing about the Commissions work being finished and that we needed to close that division. He said, as the AG suggested, we need some law revision work done but we can commission the work on an as need basis. He expressed that we tend to lean too much in luxury and letting things stay where they are. The Minister further stated that it is important for us to continue to revise the laws but we should do it on an as need basis when the time comes. He said that the AG may suggest that a Desk Officer in his Department keep an eye on it to request occasional revision, then we could see about that but he does not want to see us continue running a Reform Commission because we had one before and think that we have to stick with one forever.

984.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian said that when the Commission first started, he remembered there was a time frame for the laws to be revised and updated. He stated that, based on what his colleague was suggesting, possibly eight members of staff would be affected.

985.

The AG asked the Members to look at page 94 concerning the major achievements for the Law Reform over the last year or so. He pointed out that we would realise that the work they have done was significant and that the Law Reform Commission does nothing unless they are specifically authorised to do it. He suggested that we needed to see how we could ensure that the work done is more into the legislative agenda and taken to another level where it needs to go. He expressed that he does not think that the work of the Commission should be ending or that there is not significant contributions that they can still make.

986.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian expressed that the work of the Commission is well documented and that the Commission has done an excellent job
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from inception. He expressed his concern that his colleague and himself were trying to find the most cost effective way to ensure that Government runs efficiently. He mentioned the point made about reallocating half a million dollars somewhere else and expressed that if we did that then eight persons would be affected no matter how you slice it. The Member stated that if persons were to be reassigned to other Departments, the end result would not be half a million, but less because those people still have to be maintained. 987. The Minister for Communications and Works said that he did not have any apologies for what he said. He stated that he was saying that Government is too big and we needed to go through this exercise to see how we could begin to reduce the size of this Government. He said that it is too big and there were areas where we have set up for specific purposes and this has achieved its special purpose. He further explained that it has further purposes to achieve in the future but as of now we needed to determine as a Government that this needed to be shut down and that the expenses should not be shifted all over the place because it can be shifted, or because we have the money because we dont have the money. He expressed that it was an excellent job and we badly needed it when we started the Commission. However, if it is complete, then it is complete and that we should stop trying to facilitate things that are not necessary and start seriously thinking about reducing the size of this Government. 988. The Minister for Natural Resources and Labour interjected by saying that, in the absence of the Premier, he would not want the record to reflect that that is a policy decision that has been made by the Government. 989. The Minister for Communications and Works clarified himself by saying that the report that came from the Attorney General acting on behalf of Mr. Harris suggested that he may not be interested in continuing. My impression is that there is always work to be done on law reform but the question to how we manage doing that work going forward has been put on the table. His suggestion was that when we do see the need for major law reform, we then put into action the vehicle that would make it
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happen. In the meantime, if this purpose is completed in its mission in that we needed major law reform to be completed. However now that it is over and the good gentleman has done an excellent job, the question is put as to whether we should continue it forever every year in the budget. It certainly doesnt seem that the whole amount would be needed for this year and the question would be where it would come up next financial fiscal year. 990. The Premier indicated that he heard both comments from the AG and the Minister for Communications and Works. He stated that the fact is, as the AG said, is that the Chairman of the Law Reform suggested that he may be leaving and that the point that the Minister for Communications and Works has made was well taken. Subhead 60300 Authorized Staff 991. The Member for the Third District queried how many positions are taken. The AG said that there was one vacancy in the Department for a Clerical Trainee. 992. The Chairman thanked the panel for their contribution.

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HEAD 200 Present:

PREMIERS OFFICE

Mrs. Rosalie Adams Mrs. Elvia Smith-Maduro Mr. Jamal Jones

Permanent Secretary, Premiers Office (PSPO) Assistant Secretary Premiers Office (ASPO) Finance and Planning Officer, Premiers Office (FPOPO)

993.

The Chairman welcomed the team from the Premiers Office and asked them to state their names for the record to which they complied.

994.

The PSPO informed the SFC that she wanted to introduce the ASPO to the deliberations and for her to make as many presentations as possible by way of training.

995.

The Member for the Third District asked how many vacancies are within the PO and the positions that are vacant. The ASPO answered that there are currently the DSPO and the AS-Protocol.

996.

The Member for the Third District asked if there are three AS positions within the PO. The ASPO answered yes.

997.

The Member for the Third District sought clarity as to whether there are two vacancies in the PO. The ASPO answered yes, there are currently two vacancies.

998.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian referred to Subhead 61510 Office Rent and asked where the rental accommodations are located. The ASPO answered that the rental accommodations are located in the Scatturn Building, but has been renamed the RJT Edifice and is located on the Black Burn Highway.

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999.

Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about obtaining a copy of the lease. The ASPO answered that she would seek to provide a copy of the lease for the Territorial Member.

1000. The Member for the Third District enquired as to whether the building was sold. The ASPO answered that she is not aware that the building was sold. 1001. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian commented that the building was not sold. The Member for the Third District asked if the monies allotted to the Subhead is for one floor of the building. The ASPO answered that the Department under the PO portfolio occupies one floor. 1002. The Member for the Third District referred to a previous discussion about electricity and asked if electricity is a part of the rent or if it is a separate item. The ASPO answered that the electricity is not a part of the rent and it is paid separately. 1003. The Member for the Third District asked about the allocation for electricity since he could not recall seeing it. The ASPO answered that electricity is covered under GISs Head. 1004. The Member for the Fifth District asked if GIS pays for its own electricity and if it has its own meter. The ASPO answered that GIS pays its own electricity and has its own meter that is read by the landlord. 1005. The PSPO stated that about three (3) weeks ago the landlord called to say that she was not receiving her electrical fees and needed the PSPO to look into it. She further stated that research on the matter revealed that the Landlord had been paying electrical fees for the last seven (7) months. This, she further stated, was due to the fact that the monies for 2011 had run short and until they were able to secure new funds the Landlord paid the electrical bill so that the Department would not get cut off. However, they are looking towards the 2012 budget to clear up the deficit and have enough money available to pay for the rest of 2012. The PSPO also stated that she informed the Landlord that it was an untenable situation and that the PO will be !"#$%&#)%&'%"#$%

seeking to have the Head transferred to Government so that they could be in better control of what is being paid for electricity. 1006. The Member for the Second District stated that the Landlord provides electricity by generators when power is off and they maintain the generators. In order to provide the extra funding the Landlord takes responsibility for the entire electrical arrangement. If the power is off for six weeks or six months the Landlord has an obligation to run the generator to keep power in the building. 1007. The Member for the Fifth District stated that the SFC is being told that Departments have meters that are not read by the department themselves but is left for the Landlord to read and interpret the charge and what is gathered is there appears to be some level of dissatisfaction in the reading of the meter. She also questioned why each tenant did not have their own meter and whether there were private sector tenants in the building. 1008. The ASPO answered that the building is occupied by all Government offices. GIS has one floor, Immigration Department has two floors, the Curriculum Department has one floor and the Audit Department has one floor. 1009. The Member for the Fifth District asked if each Department has separate meters that are charged to the respective Department. The ASPO answered yes but the meters are all in the Landlords name. She further stated that the PO was having ongoing discussions with the Landlord to have the meters, particularly those for GIS and Immigration transferred to Government. 1010. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that he previously indicated that he does not have confidence in that arrangement and for the record he feels that the arrangement will eventually lead to confusion. He further stated that he is speaking from experience of being in the business and the best thing to do is to have the meters in the tenants name. If the Landlord wants to control external lighting etc. it should be wired for that purpose. The Member commented that the generator that is
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provided as a backup is not necessarily why the landlord is in control of the meter; the normal practice is if a Landlord provides a generator there is an additional service charge for the generator to service the tenants. The PO should move with haste to have discussions with the Landlord to get the meters in the Departments name so that they would know what they are being charged for. 1011. The Member for the Third District asked if there is knowledge of separate meters. The PSPO answered that she has not seen the meters. The Departments Head

indicated that they have seen the meters and are satisfied that they have their own meters. 1012. The Member for the Second District referred to Subhead 62400 Contributions to Overseas Organisations and asked why were contributions being made in the name of Lester Hyman instead of an organisation like the others. The ASPO answered that the contribution was formerly Swidler and Berlin but she is not clear as to why it was changed to Lester Hyman rather than the Companys name. 1013. The Member for the Second District stated that he did not get an explanation as to why the contributions are being made to Lester Hyman and further asked if it would be changed back to the Company. The FS stated that it was changed to that specific name several budgets back and does not know why it was done. 1014. The Member for the Second District asked if the contributions are paid to Lester Hyman. The PSPO stated that the check is made to Lester Hyman. She will do research to find out where the change was made and where possible have it reverted back to the original company name. 1015. The Member for the Third District enquired about monies for the London Office. The ASPO answered that funding for the London Office was moved to International Affairs Secretariat which is now under Premiers Office Head 255.

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1016. The Member for the Second District asked if the figures outlined in the budget were reflective of the full year 2011. The Financial Secretary answered that the figures as outlined are final. 1017. The Member for the Sixth District referred to Subhead 62410 Assistance Grant and asked for clarification on the Subhead. The ASPO answered that the Subhead is used mainly at the discretion of the Premier to assist various events (Christmas on Main Street etc), payments to Centurion. Subhead 62410-Assistance Grant 1018. The Member for the Fifth District asked if Music Festival or sporting events are included in this subhead. The ASPO answered that certain sporting events were. However, contributions to Music Fest would be met from Special Projects. 1019. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired where the funds for the London Office were transferred to since it was not reflected in the notes. He further asked if the notes could be revised to indicate where the funds were transferred to. The ASPO answered that they will work with the Ministry of Finance to update the notes. 1020. The Chairman thanked the PSPO and her team for attending the SFC deliberations and formally welcomed the PSPO back to the Public Service.

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HEAD 205 Present:

BVI SHIPPING REGISTRY

Mrs. Rosalie Adams Captain Babuca Sallah Mrs. Elveia Smith-Maduro Mr. Jamaal Jones

Permanent Secretary Premiers Office (PSPO) Director of BVI Shipping Registry (DBVISR) Assistant Secretary Premiers Office (ASPO) Finance & Planning Officer Premiers Office (FPOPO)

1021. The Chairman welcomed the team from the Premiers Office and asked them to state their names for the record to which they complied. 1022. The Member for the Second District asked if the Ship Surveyor is a local person and where they were located. The DBVISR answered that the Ship Surveyor was hired on sub-contract and is now full time. 1023. The Member for the Third District asked the DBVISR to tell the SFC about the BVISR and how things are going. The DBVISR stated that the BVISR is going as well as it could with the resources provided to it 1024. The Member for the Third District asked the DBVISR if there have been any challenges in 2011. The DBVISR answered that there had been some challenges but the challenges were not new. The BVISR was established in 2006 with two main activities Registry and Commercial. On the Regulatory side there are no problems. However on the Commercial side there is a situation where they are operating a Commercial Registry but have not been provided with any means to operate a Commercial Registry in the sense that they are operating in a competitive international environment that requires that they be provided with the wherewithal to market the BVISR. Many times Shipping Registry cannot be sold sitting in the BVI.
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The potential is there but it will always elude the BVISR if they do not support the SR with what it needs to get out there. The Marketing for the SR is supposed to be done by the BVIIFC; but for the last four years, the IFC have not been provided with money to market the SR. The Marketing must be provided or they will not achieve their potential. 1025. Territorial Member Archibald Christian enquired as to who is the IFC. The DBVISR answered that the IFS refers to the International Finance Center. The PSPO stated that the 2012 financial year allows them to think about rebranding the Shipping Registry, Tourist Board and the International Finance Center such that the funds, especially since they have to cut back, that they have could be pooled together and put them in a better position to market all three areas more effectively and efficiently. It is a plan that will work well for them. 1026. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that it is good to hear and the BVISR is an agency of government that needs to be marketed more. He understands the DBVSR concerns. However, like everything else if we are in competition we must sell ourselves so he is hopeful for the rewards from it. 1027. The Member for the Second District asked what level of growth has the BVISR made over the past years. 1028. The DBVISR answered that the ship registration market and industry is a dynamic environment. You are either out there competing or remain stagnant and once you are stagnant market shares will be lost. In 2011, there was a decrease in ship registration by forty (40) when compared to 2010. However, they have been unable to make inroads into the market where they expected to really bring in revenue (ie the market for large travel vessels). The BVISR is doing well with yacht registration; but they want to get into the market with big vessels which are the ones that yield revenue. That will get the BVISR to where they want to get so that they could create a surplus in order to contribute positively to the revenue of the country. Part of the competition is the Flag states, such as the US. Most of the yachts registered are owned by
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American citizens and the US were taking very strong measures to repatriate their boats. This means that once a vessel is sold to an American, the vessel is likely to be taken off the flag. Midyear, last year he had given ideas to the Government that he thought would help them get on board and study the market that will lead us to where they wanted to go. For the past four (4) years there has been no particular focus in the Shipping Registry. As DBVISR he promised the former Government that the

potential is there; but they are stymied and cannot reach their potential. Despite pleas over the years they have not been given the wherewithal to achieve the objectives. 1029. The Member for the Eight District asked what are the other impediments in getting the larger vessels to register at the BVISR. The DBVISR answered that there must be funding to get out and sell the BVISR. The impediments are Marketing and

promotion. They would start with a small professional staff and as the business come in they would bring in more staff to cope with the level of business. However, the current staff is sufficient. Only when business starts to grow then they would request the manpower to deal with the potentially rising market. 1030. The Member for the Eight District asked if the Government gives the necessary financial support to the BVISR can the House of Assembly be assured that there will be an increase in business. The DBVSR answered yes. The marketing for the IFC is conducted by IFC on the BVISR behalf. 1031. The Member for the Third District stated that the DFSC is available and asked if the DIFC could be present to clarify any issues relating to the marketing go the BVISR for the SFC. 1032. The Premier stated that while it is true that the marketing has been done by the IFC the idea is to combine the marketing efforts of the IFC, BVISR and TB together in an effort to affect greater coverage and will be targeting the same people to an extent. If the Members wish to discuss what happened last year then the DIFC should be invited into the meeting at this point.
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1033. The Member for the Second District sort clarity on whether the BVISR could register passenger vessels over 3000 tons but has unlimited registration with cargo vessels. 1034. The DBVISR answered that the 3000 tons refers to yachts and mega yachts. He further stated that the BVISR cannot register cruise ships because of an agreement between NCA. They are now negotiating with the UK government to remove the restriction and are hoping that the issue will be taken up again at the Red Ensign Conference in May this year. 1035. The Member for the Second District asked if now that the conditions imposed were met an application will be made by the BVISR to register cruise ships. The DBVISR answered that there is a criteria that must be met which includes having Surveyors in house and available outside because they can delegate duties but not the responsibilities. They must have a minimum number of surveyors in house so that he could monitor what the Surveyors are doing in the BVI. 1036. The Member for the Second District stated that in the estimates before the Committee there is only one Surveyor recorded and the BVISR made an application to have that condition remove and one of the conditions was that the BVISR should have sufficient Surveyors in house. He asked if it could be done with one Surveyor in house. 1037. The DBVISR stated that in the draft estimates before the Committee it would show that there are vacancies for three Surveyors: A Chief Surveyor, Engineer Surveyor and a Ship Surveyor. There was a Nautical Surveyor; but because the BVISR has not grown he has not been using the post. He proposed to HR to have the post of Nautical Surveyor that he has not used in the past three years suspended with the stipulation that when the BVISR grows he would submit a request for the post. 1038. At this point, the Director of the International Finance Center joined the SFC.

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1039. The Chairman asked the DIFC to state her name for the record to which she complied. The Chairman told the DIFC that she was called before the Committee to address the concerns regarding marketing of the BVISR. 1040. The Member for the Third District stated that the DBVISR was asked to apprise the Committee about BVISR and were told that the BVISR is poised and ready to go except that he hasnt been given the tools to get beyond the shores of the BVI properly. He further stated that the Committee was told that marketing is currently done by the IFC and they would like to get a feel of what is going on with the area of marketing for BVISR. 1041. The DIFC stated that the account given by the DBVISR is correct. The IFC is responsible for marketing and promoting all product and services of the BVI Financial Services industry including shipping registration. However, they do not have a dedicated allotted amount specific to marketing the BVISR. What the IFC has is a very limited budget for any marketing activities that must represent shipping, trust, funds, corporate business and insurance. It is a very limited pot of money for the whole array of financial services. One of the things the IFC has been in

communication with the BVISR about is an attempt to get dedicated funds allocated just to represent the BVISR independently. The marketing may still be done by the IFC but it will be done at a level that is much more representative and allows for the territory to actually take the message farther and wider than they are able to at this time. The most they have been able to do with the funding that they have are three boat shows annually that are held in Monaco, Dubai and the US. They have been trying to cover the three largest areas and shows on an international basis. They also put funding into some media opportunities for shipping and that is about it. There isnt much more that can be done with the monies they have. 1042. The Member for the Third District asked who the main competitors in the region were. The DIFC answered that the main competitors in the region were the Cayman Islands and a lot of work is now being done by St. Vincent and Bermuda. The BVI is
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very much behind some of the competitors in the region. Internationally it is Isle of Man, Gurnsey, and Jersey etc. 1043. The Member for the Eighth District asked what were the benefits derived for the territory from attending the aforementioned boat shows over the past five years. The DIFC stated that one of the things that they have been trying to do is position themselves at one of the largest shows internationally and globally and one of the biggest, if not the biggest show is held in Monaco. The biggest boat/yacht builders together with media outfits all attend these shows and because of the level of wealth in Dubai there is a lot of interest taking place there. 1044. The Member for the Eighth District asked if the DIFC has seen any improvement in our product from attending the boat shows. The DIFC answered that the DBVISR would answer that better; but she believes that one of the things that they fail to do is follow-up. Going to a show once a year is not going to succeed and take them to the level that they want. There has to be follow-up and this means travelling to meet with these people physically and engaging with them. 1045. The DBVISR stated that they are benefitting in terms of response to the marketing effort. They are doing fairly well with yacht registration. They have not been able to get a foothold in the area for large cargo ships that they estimate the bulk of the revenue would come from. For example, when a yacht is registered the revenue would be in the region of one thousand dollars or less whereas when a large cargo ship is registered the cost would be ten to twenty thousand dollars. That is the market that they need to get into in order to sustain themselves. Their competitors offer the same thing; however the commercial success of the BVISR would depend on the quality of their services. 1046. The Member for the Sixth District stated that this seems like an area that has the potential to bring additional revenue to the Territory and asked if anyone has made a proper proposal or comprehensive plan to the Government to lobby and market the jurisdiction. The DIFC stated that discussions have been had and proposals sent.
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There is a recent proposal currently being circulated to Cabinet and the Government will have to address it at a time when it sees the opportunity to do so. 1047. The Member for the Third District asked if IFC goes to Monaco, Dubai and the USA if they would be successful in funding any vessels such as the oil tankers and mega cargo vessels to be registered on our register. He also asked who is targeting those vessels for marketing purposes. The DIFC stated that with the limited monies that is all they are able to do. The kind of money that is required for the larger vessels is not available. Travelling to meet and engage with the people physically is very important because they are internationally based. Sometimes it is hard to sell the Government on this type of travel. 1048. The Member for the Second District stated that he is in support of what the DIFC is saying. He recalled when he worked in the Ministry of Communications and Works, and they attended the shows, they made personal visits to the headquarters to physically sit and talk with the people to gain their confidence. The one on one follow-up is very important if they wish to make an impact. 1049. The DBVISR stated that they have been making the plea for the last four years and they are now in a situation where they have to play catch up. There is a need to engage Consultants to carry out a market study to find out what the market thinks of the BVISR and from the market study they could plan which way to go for the future. He has on several occasions before the SFC made a plea to be given the wherewithal to carryout promotion and marketing of the BVISR which would be an investment. They have been provided the same level of funding that they were given since the BVISR was created in 2006. 1050. The Member for the Second District stated that the BVISR must be serious about the business and go after it; they must not sit back because there are thousands of people offering the same thing.

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1051. The Member for the Third District stated that he didnt think that the DBVISR should walk away from the SFC feeling like the Committee does not know that he has been diligent in his duties and presenting proposals. Not every proposal presented to Cabinet or the Legislature is advanced and they cannot be advanced since there is no funding. 1052. The DBVISR stated that the ships that are called flag of convenience are under pressure from the UN and have cleaned up their act. For example if they operate mediocre maritime the ships will be detained in foreign ports and once a ship is detained that jurisdiction receives a bad reputation. The type of ships they are

looking for are the ships that are registered in Liberia and Panama. Liberian ships do not go to Liberia but are managed by companies that are based in the US. Part of his proposal is for the Government to consider opening a satellite office in London. 1053. The Member for the Third District asked if the satellite office would fit in the London Office. The DBVISR stated that he has had discussions with the Director of the BVI House earlier this year and there is an office that will be vacant in June or September. For the time being all they want is one Surveyor based in London just to prepare reports. Secretarial duties will be provided by the London House. 1054. Territorial Member Archibald Christian referred to Subhead 62740- Advertising and Promotion read the notes and asked what it was. The DBVISR answered that the subhead is in reference to a database used for the movement of ship registry. It is not actually used for promotion. 1055. Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian stated that since there are no funds for promotion it needs to be corrected. The Budget Coordinator stated that it would be corrected. 1056. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian referred to Subhead 62400 Contributions to Overseas Organizations and asked if this is something new and what benefit will the BVISR get from CMU.
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1057. The DBVISR answered that he has asked for funds for that over the years. The CMU is an organization of maritime administration in the Caribbean. It is an organisation under the auspices of IMO established to help ensure that there is a uniformed high standard of quality of ships operating in the Caribbean. By being a member of that body they would be able to contribute to eradicate substandard ships that are operating in the Caribbean. 1058. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if it would be an annual fee. The DBVISR sated that the fee is a onetime entry fee with an annual renewal fee. 1059. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired about the allocation requested for promoting shipping as an independent part of the promotional strategy. The DIFC stated that the discussions she has had with the BVISR over the past year and the most recent proposal suggests $500,000 would be a start to lay out the programme. It is important for them to know where they stand in the current play of things internationally. consultancy report. 1060. The Member for the Second District stated that in promoting cruise ships industry there is a trend if you convince the Carnival Cruise Line to call at your Port the others will follow. He asked if there is a similar trend to the registration of ships. 1061. The DBVISR answered yes. Sometimes there is a trend and many of the ships are committed to a particular shipping company and there is a tendency to follow ones peer. However, the companies will not follow blind but will test the jurisdiction first. 1062. The Member for the Second District stated that once a particular company is registered with the BVISR others would take it as a sign that the BVI is a good area to register. The DBVISR stated that that may be the case, but most companies will not take it at face value and will test. She further stated that the $500,000 would cover the

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1063. The Member for the Eighth District asked that if we are to be marketed as the place to be in the Shipping industry and have the wherewithal the DBVISR speaks about, what was the DVISR doing to build the capacity of Virgin Islanders on the ground. 1064. The DBVISR answered the posts that are relevant they had to recruit Surveyors from the international market. There is an activity on the ground here in the BVI to encourage young BVIslanders to go to University and obtain the necessary training and qualification that is required. There is also a requirement for experience He

calls the profession a long gestation profession because you qualify and then obtain the experience. The alternative is to get the requirements professionally by going to sea; but it is not a popular decision. There are currently persons attending

Universities in the USA pursuing degree courses to obtain the requirement for people who plan to become Surveyors. 1065. The Member for the Eighth District asked if persons have been identified to be trained as Surveyors. The DBVISR answered yes and further stated that they encouraged persons who graduate from high school to attend classes at HLSCC to obtain an Associates Degree as the first step. 1066. The DBVISR stated that the BVISR activities are commercial and regulatory. On the regulatory side there are two facets: which are regulating local vessels that operate domestically in BVI waters and ships are registered but do not come to the BVI. There is also a need to train young people to enter the ground level to be given a chance to study to become Marine Inspectors. The BVISR is lacking in this area and needs help. Over the past two years there were two Officers who were promising; but the difficulty is that the Officers are employed temporarily. He has not been able to provide sufficient justification in support of them becoming permanent and pensionable Officers. For the sake of moral if the Officers do not see any future for them, they may leave and go someplace else and for the sake of continuity some funds must be provided for their permanent employment.

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1067. The Member for the Eighth District asked if the captains that sail chartered yachts required having a captains licence. The DBVISR answered that every vessel that operates commercially in the BVI waters is supposed to have a licenced captain and a set standard of safety because they must ensure that the ships are properly manned and equipped and the ship themselves are sound. So far they have been able to maintain a high reputation in terms of safety. If this is not done there may be a chance of having accidents in the BVI waters. 1068. The Member for the Eighth District asked how many locals are certified or registered to operate vessels in the BVI. The Director DBVISR answered that there are many and the requirements for young men/women designed to make the licensee proficient in safety in operating a vessels and there are tests designed to establish this. For older persons the BVISR is not as stringent, they take into account the experience since some may have difficulty in writing an examination. 1069. The Member for the Eighth District stated that he asked the question because there are a number of persons in his district who have an interest in being a certified captain and he was trying to get an understanding of what is required of them in terms of having the necessary qualifications, so that they could be in a position to capitalise on the available captain jobs. 1070. The DBVISR stated that there is a syllabus at the BVISR that anyone could acquire. There are courses that are organised by HLSCC and persons who do not have the proficiency in operating a boat could start by attending the courses at HLSCC and later be examined by the BVISR for issuance of a licence. 1071. The Member for the Eighth District asked if the courses are geared towards getting a licence. The DBVISR answered yes. 1072. The Member for the Fifth District asked what percentage would the BVISR award towards practical knowledge. The DBVISR answered that they expect that the older persons may not know as much non-practical information as the younger persons and
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therefore are graded on experience. He found it necessary to ensure that the younger persons could work out time, speed, weight of the boat and distance. He would not require an older boat captain to know this because of their experience. 1073. The Member for the Eighth District stated that it would be a good endeavor if the Minister for Education and Culture could work with the BVISR to ensure that interested young persons in his Youth Development Programme are provided with the necessary training to become licenced captains. 1074. The Member for the Third District asked about the Officers in the BVISR who have worked temporary for the past four years being regularised. The DBVISR answered that those are the Officers he previously spoke about. They have been temporary for the last four years and they are competent to be made permanent. They hold the positions of Assistant Marine Officers. 1075. The Member for the Third District stated that this is not sending the right message to young people. The PSPO stated that over the years it is true that the DBVISR made representation for the officers to become permanent and pensionable but there is a process that must be approved by HR. They must also ensure the FS that they have the funds available to support the persons who become permanent and pensionable. When asked to cut the budget the personal emoluments is usually the area that gets cut and that is why there hasnt been any funds to assist the DBVISR in securing the monies to have the posts regularised. 1076. The Member for the Third District stated that if the matter of the officers becoming permanent and pensionable is not fixed it will be prolonged. 1077. The Premier stated that while it is true that it is not the responsibility of a Minister to make an officer permanent and pensionable, it goes through the process as the PSPO stated. Once the Minister encourages the system it should happen. The Minister will encourage the system. 1078. The Chairman thanked the DBVISR for attending the SFC. !"#$%&*!%&'%"#$%

HEAD 210 Present:

DEVELOPMENT PLANNING UNIT

Mrs. Rosalie Adams Mr. Raymond Phillips Mrs. Arliene T. Penn Ms. Najan Christopher Mrs. Elvia Smith-Maduro Mr. Jamal Jones

Permanent Secretary, Premier's Office (PSPO) Director, Development Planning Unit Director of Communications, Premier's Office Assistant Secretary, Premier's Office (ASPO) Assistant Secretary, Premier's Office (ASPO) Finance and Planning Officer, Premier's Office (FPOPO)

1079. The Chairman welcomed everyone present and asked them to state their names and positions to which they complied. 1080. Member for the Third District enquired how current the Development Planning Unit's (DPU) statistics were regarding, tourism, trade, cost of living and Customs arrival. 1081. The DDPU replied that most of the statistics were up-to-date until November, 2011. He said that a system was not in place to capture persons leaving the Territory. The tourism arrival was up-to-date to November, 2011. The trade information was only up-to-date to 2008. He explained the reason for this was because the T-12s had to be entered manually for every transaction. 1082. Member for the Third District stated that this was very disappointing information. He added that the Government could not plan properly without up-to-date statistics. He stated that this had been the case for many years. However, when the Department was asked previously what they needed they responded that they were alright. He stated that the trade information was very important. He referred to 2009 when the

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airlift crisis hit the British Virgin Islands and there were no figures to work with. He said it was necessary that the system be computerised. 1083. Member for the Eighth District stated that he understood that the Government paid millions of dollars on a CAPS system at the Ports of Entry and asked why the information was still being entered manually. The DDPU stated that the CAPS system was only installed at certain Ports of Entry. Port Purcell did not have the CAPS system in place. 1084. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the Government maintained information on real estate. The DDPU replied no. He stated that it was difficult to maintain information from the public sector, because in many cases Government did not receive full cooperation from public organisations. He stated that information was collected that related to the GDP. 1085. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that, for a fee, he was able to obtain information on a monthly basis from the Land Registry regarding real estate. He suggested that the DPU should also request this information from the Land Registry as this would assist with the collection of statistics. 1086. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the Department had its full complement of staff. The DDPU stated that the Department currently had 21 persons on staff. One DDDPU, two Statistical Officers and 3 Clerical Officers

positions were vacant. He would particularly like to have the Statistical Officers positions filled. 1087. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the Department had a Human Resources team. The DDPU stated that all Departments had a Human Resources Officer to deal with staffing matters. 1088. The Member for the Fifth District enquired whether the DPU had a direct link with other major Departments that provided information. The DDPU stated that no such link exists. He added that the only organisation that the DPU received automated !"#$%&*'%&'%"#$%

information from was the Social Security Board. Officers are sent out to other organisations to collect information from their files. He stated that a system called ASSICUDA was introduced to the Territory to help the Department to collect automated information. However, this system was rejected and, as a result, the information had to be collected manually. 1089. The Member for the Fifth District enquired whether the DDPU had an input in making this decision. The DDPU stated that he was not the DDPU at that time. 1090. The Member for the Fifth District asked whether the DDPU made any efforts to have the ASSICUDA system established in the Unit. The DDPU replied that the problem in using the ASSICUDA system was that the Government could not get the private sector to buy into the system as they thought that it would be too burdensome. 1091. The Member for the Eighth District asked whether the private sector had to go through the Government with their goods. The DDPU stated that the private organisations had to hire brokers to complete the T-12s. They complained that it would be an extra cost to them, if the system was introduced. 1092. The Member for the Eighth District enquired whether the information could not be used from the T-12s. The DDPU stated that the information could be used from the T12s but it had to be done manually. 1093. The Member for the Eighth District asked approximately how many T-12s are completed each year. The DDPU replied that it was difficult to give the exact amount of T-12s that were completed each year. He said, in 2011, over $300 million was spent on trade. 1094. The Member for the Fifth District enquired whether the Customs Department had the information needed on T-12s. The DDPU stated that the Customs Department had information on the duty collected and not the value of the goods.

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1095. The Member for the Third District stated that people who are involved in trade need this information and it is disappointing that it is not available. He added that a system should be put in place to have this information automated. The DDPU said that it should be Customs decision to have this information automated. 1096. The Member for the Third District stated that it should be Governments decision to have the information automated. 1097. The Member for the Fifth District enquired how the requests for statistics are usually made. The DDPU stated that the information for statistics was usually submitted through e-mail, or persons visited the Office. 1098. The Member for the Eighth District enquired whether the DDPU was involved in the decision-making process for introducing new systems in Government that dealt with collecting data. The DDPU stated that he was invited to attend meetings and he usually enquired what type of statistics they needed. He advised that the DPU needed the raw data and organisations were reluctant to give them the raw data. The companies usually introduced programmes that are pre-designed. 1099. The Member for the Eighth District stated that a more integrated process was needed that involved DPU and DoIT to ensure that they received the information needed. 1100. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired how long had the Department collected information manually from T-12s. The DDPU stated that the Department has made some progress over the years. In times past, the information was sent to Florida to analyse the data. 1101. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired where the FCO obtained statistical information. The DDPU stated that FCO obtained its statistical information from DPU. He stated that most of the Departments statistics are up-to-date with the exception of trade.

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1102. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired how the GDP was developed since the trade information was not up-to-date. The DDPU stated that the GDP is developed by looking at the trade data, looking at the trends and making an estimation. He added that it is usual that estimations are made in statistics. 1103. The Member for the Eighth District enquired about the accuracy of the GDP for 2011, given the economic situation. The DDPU stated that any estimate had an element of error. The person who compiled the GDP took all of the information into

consideration. Statistics for the two main players, tourism and financial services, are both up-to-date. The DPU is sure that this information is correct and accounts for 70% of the GDP. 1104. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked what the GDP was for 2011. The DDPU replied that the estimate was just below $1 million. 1105. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the DPU had a data sheet of statistics that could be provided for review by the Members. The DDPU stated that the Department had a data sheet of statistics that could be submitted to Members. 1106. The Member for the Fifth District queried whether this data sheet was circulated to any Government Departments. The DDPU replied no. He added that the information was sent to the Departments upon request. 1107. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that the 2011 Standing Finance Committee Meeting, Item No. 108, stated that the Departments website was not properly managed. He asked whether it was being managed now. The DDPU replied that a decision was made when he was on study leave to have the website redone and it was removed from the website. When he returned, he made a decision to replace the original website. He stated that the website was not online now, but it would be back online within two weeks. However, it would take a period of time before the website was up-to-date.

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1108. The Member for the Eighth District asked why the website would be published if it was not up-to-date. The DDPU stated that many areas published on the website were used by others and it was therefore useful. 1109. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what it would take to overcome the challenges that the Department faced with updating the website. The DDPU stated that the DDPU is currently working on updating the website. 1110. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the position of the 2010 census. The DDPU stated that the census started in August 2010. Presently, 90% of the surveys have been completed and he has decided to stop there. It was very difficult to collect information in the BVI. Some people refused to answer the questions and the enumerators had some major challenges. The DPU has started to scan the information and the data has to be coded and corrected and this would take some time. Once the enumerators are out of the fields, he would be able to give a preliminary count of the population. However, it would include a 10% waiting period to reflect the correct statistics. He added that it would take between six months to one year to produce detailed information from the census. 1111. The Member for the Third District enquired which questions the enumerators had difficulty completing. The DDPU stated that some people thought that some of the questions were too personal. Some people also refused to complete the entire survey. 1112. The Member for the Third District enquired whether it was the enumerators who caused the problems. The DDPU stated that he was not sure what the problems were. He was forced to contact extra persons to administer the survey. He needed 100 persons and only 80 persons applied. He did not have the option of being very selective. Most of the enumerators were local persons, but he had to use persons who were available to conduct the survey. He also assigned persons to work in their own community for security reasons since the survey was conducted between 5:00 p.m. and 9:00 p.m.
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1113. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the questionnaire was created by the DPU or if it was adopted from another region. The DDPU stated that the questionnaire was a regional questionnaire that was done in collaboration with CARICOM and UNESCO. He added that the U.S. has a good registration in place, but this Territory did not. 1114. The Member for the Fifth District noted that the DPU was seeking to obtain a large amount of information in one survey. 1115. The Member for the Eighth District enquired whether the information could be collected from other sources such as the Social Security Board. The DDPU stated that Social Security Board only deals with the employed. Only certain information could be received from that organisation. However, the census looked at the entire population. 1116. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired how the survey was done in comparison to other places such as the USA and the UK. The DDPU stated that he was not familiar with the U.K. form. The U.S. introduced a long form and a short form. However, the U.S. recently made the move to stop asking so many questions and adopted the short form. 1117. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked why the DPU did not use the short form. The DDPU replied that if the short form was used he would not be able to provide the statistics needed by Members. 1118. The Leader of the Opposition enquired when the 2010 census would be completed. The DDPU replied that the preliminary figures for the census would be available in March 2011, and the detailed information would not be available in another six months. 1119. The Member for the Third District asked what options did the DDPU have to revise the census form. The DDPU stated that CARICOM instituted that a core set of questions be used and each country makes adjustments as needed. !"#$%&*+%&'%"#$%

1120. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the region had a coded system. The DDPU stated that they are not relying on a coding system from any other country. 1121. The Member for the Eighth District asked whether the DDPU had to go through this process each year. The DDPU replied no. 1122. The Member for the Fifth District enquired what the term coding meant. The DDPU stated that when the enumerators went out in the field, and they returned to the office with the information, statistical software had to be used and codes must be used that meets international standards. 1123. The Member for the Eighth District asked whether the enumerators were trained to understand the codes for the census. The DDPU stated that the training was only designed to enable the enumerators to administer the census. They did not code the information in the homes because it would be too time consuming. 1124. The Member for the Eighth District asked what the BVI was doing differently from the U.S. considering that the U.S. took less than a year to cover over 300 million persons and we are yet to review just over 30,000 persons. 1125. The DDPU stated that the U.S. spent $300 million to complete the census and mobilised thousands of people to carry out the surveys. He did a comparison and the U.S. spent twenty times more than this Territory spent per person to conduct the census. Subhead 62720 Statistical Surveys 1126. The Member for the Third District requested an explanation of this Subhead. The FS stated that this money was needed for the census and the extra hiring of staff that had to be done. 1127. The Member for the Third District requested a further explanation on how the money was used. The DDPU stated that the money was used for wages, stationery and
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transportation.

Each enumerator was paid $5.00 per unit and each person was

required to cover 100 household units. 1128. The Member for the Third District enquired about the employment status for the enumerators. The DDPU stated that the majority of persons were local persons and there were also some non-nationals. 1129. The Member for the Third District asked whether people who were on work permits were allowed to work on the census and how much money they were paid. The DDPU stated that he did not check to see whether persons were on work permits. He did not have the amount of persons needed to serve as enumerators and he used those persons who were available. 1130. The Member for the Fifth District asked whether he contacted HLSCC. The DDPU stated that he called the HLSCC to enquire whether any persons were interested in working on the census. However, most of the college students did not complete their surveys. He said each enumerator was paid $2,000. Some persons made up to $7,000 because they completed their areas and completed other areas when the enumerators did not function. 1131. The Member for the First District stated that continual efforts needed to be made to involve people. He referred to the TEVEC programme which was free to British Virgin Islanders but not many persons expressed interest in attending the programme. The persons who expressed interest in attending were mostly expatriates. He added that he respected the efforts made by the DDPU to conduct the census. 1132. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether there was anything that DDPU would change in the next census. The DDPU stated that he would reduce the size of the questionnaire. He would discuss this idea with his regional counterparts as he is sure that they shared the same concerns. 1133. The Member for the First District stated that he wished to place on record his appreciation for the hard work of the staff at the DPU. !"#$%&+$%&'%"#$%

1134. The Chairman thanked the DDPU and the staff of the Premiers office for attending the meeting.

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HEAD 215 Present:

BVI INTERNATIONAL FINANCE CENTRE

Mrs. Rosalie Adams Ms. Sherri Ortiz

Permanent Secretary, Premiers Office (PSPO) Director, BVI International Finance Centre (DBVIFC)

Ms. Maritza Mercer Mrs. Elvia Smith-Maduro Mr. Jamal Jones

Chief Operations Officer, BVIFC Assistant Secretary, Premiers Office (ASPO) Finance and Planning Officer (FPOPO)

1135. The Chairman welcomed the members of the Premiers Office team and asked them to state their names to which they complied. 1136. The Member for the Third District stated that the DIFC spoke to the Committee earlier in regards to promotion and learnt about some short comings. He referred to aircraft registry, aircraft mortgage registry and aircraft engine mortgage registry and asked how the IFC plans to market them. 1137. The DIFC answered that they have not began to lay out a plan or program for aircraft registration at this time. Last year they looked into it to determine what kind of preparations are necessary and was made to understand that the department /registry was not set up so there wasnt much that they could do. What they need to do is take stock and look at the product and services that are available under the financial services industry and determine how we could get our message out in the most expedient and expeditious way. In terms of the Financial Services Industry they have done road shows and tried a more focused approached on a sector to sector basis. The time has come for them to work more closely with the private sector and to introduce an approach that allows the private sector to do most of their marketing in a manner that will allow the jurisdiction to be seen as a head. There are no answers at this time !"#$%&+&%&'%"#$%

for how it could be achieved. The Premier recently held a meeting with the private sector and suggestions and ideas are still coming in. 1138. The Member for the Third District stated that he is aware that the DIFC has a great deal of knowledge of the business communitys interest in the Territorys aircraft registry and wondered if she had any suggestions for the Ministry. 1139. The DIFC stated that she is very familiar particularly inasmuch as there is a Shipping Registry most high net worth individuals who has a personal jet also has a personal yacht. When they are marketing high net worth individuals for ship registry they should also be marketing for aircraft registry 1140. The Member for the Third District asked if the IFC is running with a full compliment of staff. The DIFC answered no the Department has operated significantly 40% understaffed for the past two to four years. The problem is because of the type of work that the IFC does and the type of clients and markets they are dealing with they require people to have a knowledge of the Financial Services Industry and many times when they find people with the knowledge and level of education the positions do not offer the level of compensation that applicants are interested in or satisfied with and so they have remained understaffed consistently for a number of years. 1141. The Member for the Third District asked about the number of vacancies at the IFC. The DIFC answered that there are five (5) vacancies. 1142. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if the grave human resources situation was reported to the last government. The DIFC answered that not only did she do that she also met with both the previous and the current Governor. Matters were progressed and in many cases did not succeed in the Public Service Commission process. 1143. The Member for the Fifth District asked if the private sector assistance in regards to promotion is usually for a fee. The DIFC answered that the private sector, on a company to company basis, in doing so they promote their own company and in !"#$%&+'%&'%"#$%

doing so they also promote the BVI since they are doing business here. However, between late 2010 and 2011 the IFC actually partnered with the private sector in organizing several of their hosted events in Asia, Europe and the US. The private sector helped to fund the events through sponsorship because the IFC budget could not sustain the cost. However, what she suggest moving forward is, that level of financial support achieved in a different way especially through sponsorships by the people who will be participating on an event to event basis. What is being discussed is a nominal contribution from all members in the private sector doing business to help fund the work of the IFC. There is still on going discussions and the committee will be formed through the Premiers Office. 1144. The Member for the Third District referred to the possibility of funding some of the activities and asked if it would compromise the IFCs independence. The DIFC answered that they tried it in 2010-2011 and that was not the resulting effect. However, it does to some small extent leave out some of the smaller firms that do permit the same level of contribution for a sponsorship cost and feel it is not the most appropriate way to move forward in the future. 1145. The Member for the Third District asked where the IFC located is. The DIFC answered that the IFC still operates in the Haycraft Building in Pasea Estate. 1146. The Member for the Third District referred to Subhead 62740 Advertising and Promotional Expenses and asked what amount of monies is appropriate for the IFC to do the kind of work that is needed to be done. 1147. The DIFC answered that she would prefer the figure she was given back in 2007-2008 when it was 1.5 million but even then it was not enough because advertising is expensive and most of the places that they advertise in are Europe, UK some US. There are no funds to advertise in China but, to get the message out there, even with the internet and simple and creative means, they are advertising to the entire world.

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1148. The Member for the Third District sort clarity and asked if the funds were moved from $1.5 million dollars to $749,300. The DIFC stated that last year (2011) it was $900,000 it was gradual and due to the economic recessionary constraints. 1149. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if the figures jumped from $1.5 million to $749,300. The DIFC answered no. 1150. The Member for the Third District stated that the record showed that she stated that the figure was $1.5 in 2007-2008 and asked what scope of IFC changed. The DIFC answered that the change came about due to the economic recession. 1151. The Member for the Third District stated that economic recession cannot account for that change, something must have shifted and its either they have changed the way they are advertising or they are taking things as they come. 1152. The Member for the Sixth District asked if the Committee could have a break down of the Consultancy expenses. The DIFC answered that she could give a verbal break down which is 80% of their funding goes to the PR firm in the UK and what is left is generally used for on the ground event organizers that they have from time to time in China or Europe. 1153. The Member for the Third District stated that the FSC has progressively over the years improved revenue, as small as it may be and asked if it is possible that someone may have thought that the promotion of the IFC is not a priority. The DIFC answered that she would not be able to respond to the question. 1154. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if there were discussions at one point on collaborative marketing efforts between the Tourist Board and IFC. 1155. The DIFC answered that there have been discussions and have implemented, where possible, collaborative efforts particularly with the shipping and boat shows that are always executed jointly between IFC, TB and the BVISR. They have to give

consideration to the different line of clients that they are speaking to when looking at
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promotion of the destination as a holiday and/or financial destination. While high net worth people are the ones that they want to come here to enjoy the beaches etc. when it comes to financial services they are the persons they should be speaking to; they should be speaking to their Lawyers. Sometimes you cannot get the same message to both persons. 1156. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that he agreed with the DIFC and asked if the misconception could be the reason why funding for IFC was reduced over the last five years. Some people feel that when it comes to collaboration they are using less; however, that is not the case at IFC. 1157. The DIFC answered that it is possible; but she cannot see how. If they are talking about the benefits in savings on collaboration with agencies, the discussions never got down to dollars and cents. Her understanding is the reduction has been the same across the board for all Government departments. The IFC cannot be treated like any other Department of Government, but according to responsibilities and expectations of the industry. 1158. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if there is very little that can be done with $700,000 plus. 1159. The DIFC answered that very little can be done. What happens is as the years turn they look at the opportunity and start getting offers for placements and various publications and by the time mid year comes the funds are gone. It is just not enough. 1160. The Member for the Fifth District stated that she understands the situation being outlined and asked if any restructuring could be done. The DIFC stated that she does not see the opportunity for any further cuts to the IFCs budget. 1161. The Member for the Fifth District clarified that she is not speaking of further cuts; but about trying to be creative with what is allotted. The DIFC stated that it is a fair question and over the past year and a half they have been very creative. Getting the private sector to help fund the events was creativity. Going forward their best chance !"#$%&+)%&'%"#$%

at creating a new structure would be through the committees and working groups that are being established. She didnt think that it was within the wherewithal of

Government to actually do it. 1162. The Member for the Third District referred to the indigenous companies in the BVI and asked why would CITCO BVI promote BVI as a destination as opposed to Curacao or Panama. They could spend the same money promoting those other places as opposed to IFC who has no choice but to promote the BVI. 1163. The DIFC stated that it is the juxtaposition of the situation and the point is there was an opportunity to partner with the private sector and benefit from ideas and strategy. There are many companies in the private sector registered in the BVI but because they are multi jurisdictional companies their loyalty is not strictly with the BVI. They are hoping that once heads are put together, there may be minimum support for what they have here but there are no guarantees. 1164. The Member for the Third District stated that this particular topic is a huge topic and it should not be gleaned over lightly. He thinks that financial services are our bread and butter and games cannot be played with it. There is a need to get serious and get a good grasp of it. 1165. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that there is a need to take a holistic approach to advertising the BVI. There is a need to look at FSC, Tourist Board, Shipping Registry, Aircraft Registry etc to advertise the BVI abroad. It is only fair to allow the Premier /Minister responsible to look and come up with a solution. 1166. The Member for the Third District stated that he feels that Tourism has its own challenges at this time, and the Premier is going to do what he has to do. It is his Government and he will structure the departments the way he see fits. 1167. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the views of the Member for the Third District will be taken into consideration.
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1168. The Chairman thanked the DIFC and her team for attending the deliberations of the SFC.

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HEAD 220 Present:

IMMIGRATION DEPARTMENT

Mrs. Rosalie Adams Mr. Dennis Jennings

Permanent Secretary, Premiers Office (PSPO) Chief Immigration Officer, Immigration Department (CIO)

Ms. Najan Christopher Mrs. Elvia Smith-Maduro Mrs. Arliene T. Penn Mr. Jamal Jones

Assistant Secretary, Premiers Office (ASPO) Assistant Secretary, Premiers Office (ASPO) Director of Communications, Premiers Office (DC) Finance & Planning Officer, Premiers Office (FPOPO)

1169. The Chairman welcomed persons present and asked them to give their names and positions for the record to which they complied. 1170. The Member for the Third District enquired whether there were any vacancies in the Immigration Department. The CIO stated that the vacancies in the Immigration Department included two Assistant Chief Immigration Officers, one Executive Officer, and one Immigration Officer I. 1171. The Member for the Third District asked why these positions were not filled. The CIO stated that he made several attempts to have the positions filled. Several candidates were interviewed and their names submitted for appointment. However, the decision was made that the posts should be re-advertised as the applicants did not meet the criteria. 1172. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the vacant positions were under devolution. The CIO stated that the Executive Officer and the Immigration Officer were under devolution and the Assistant Chief Immigration Officers positions were being dealt with through the DeHR.
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Subhead 61220 Electricity 1173. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked for an explanation under Subhead 61220 Electricity. He asked why the figure increased from $33,700 in 2011 to $88,000 in 2012. 1174. The CIO stated that the Department had an outstanding bill of $40,000 for electricity that was not paid in 2011. A supplementary was requested but it was not approved. Subhead 61425 - Maintenance of Other Public Structures 1175. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired what public structures were maintained in 2011. The CIO stated that the Detention Centre at Balsum Ghut was maintained. He added that it was built outside the H.M. Prison compound. The top floor is used for detention of persons and the bottom floor is used for female inmates. 1176. The Member for the Third District queried why PWD was not used to maintain the detention centre. The CIO stated that, although PWD was used to maintain structures, a journal voucher would still be used to compensate PWD for the work done. 1177. The Member for the Third District stated that PWD had a mandate under their subhead maintenance of public structures except for Police Department and the schools. He said journal vouchers should only be used for gasoline and vehicle repair. The CIO stated that funds were also allocated to other areas where there was a need. Subhead 61510 Office Rent 1178. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that the Immigration Department requested $215,200.00 for office rent in 2012. He asked how many buildings the Immigration Department rent. The CIO stated that the only building that the Immigration Department rented was the Scatturn Building. 1179. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired when the lease for the Scatturn Building was due to expire. The CIO replied that he was not sure, but believed within the next two years.
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1180. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether rent was being paid for the ports facility. The CIO replied that rent was not being paid for the ports facility. 1181. The Leader of the Opposition enquired if any plans were in place to train staff within the Immigration Department. The CIO stated that a retired officer returned to the Department and is assigned to conduct training for Immigration Officers. He also tried to arrange training with HLSCC but was unsuccessful. 1182. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether this was sufficient training for the Immigration Officers. The CIO replied no. 1183. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that he was surprised when he saw how certain Immigration Officers treated visitors and residents when they entered the territory. He said after persons have travelled for many hours and they arrive at our ports, they should be treated courteously by the front-line persons. Immigration Officers should assist persons when Immigration forms are not completed correctly. 1184. The CIO stated that training is conducted regularly for the Immigration Officers. A staff member from the Tourist Board and an official from the Bahamas conducted training for the Immigration Officers. He said when visitors completed the

Immigration forms incorrectly; the Immigration Officers should give assistance. 1185. The Leader of the Opposition stated that he realises that there are problems at the ports of entry, but sometimes it is caused by persons who do not wish to follow the law. He said he received a call from the Minister for Foreign Affairs from Grenada asking why someone was refused entry into the Virgin Islands. He told the Minister that he would not become involved in overruling the Immigration Officers decision as they were performing their duties according to the law. He stated that he also knows what it is to travel for 24 hours and to be treated discourteously. 1186. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked whether Immigration Officers wore a name tag and whether they were required to give their names, if asked. The CIO
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stated that Immigration Officers are required to wear name tags and they should also give their names if requested. 1187. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what was the protocol for dealing with complaints. The CIO stated that the public could lodge complaints with the Premiers Office, the Immigration Department or the Complaints Commissioner. He ensures that the officers cooperate fully when complaints are made. He said no written procedure exists for dealing with complaints. 1188. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that the Immigration Department carries out a very important function of being the first contact with the visitors. He said this territory needed to ensure that persons are treated courteously when they arrive into the territory. He added that in certain places promises of what customers ought to expect are printed to remind the Immigration Officers of their responsibility. He said he has also received some complaints regarding how some persons are treated by Immigration Officers. Subhead 62730 Repatriation 1189. The Minister for Education and Culture asked whether $81,000 is sufficient funds to deal with repatriation. The CIO replied that he could not ascertain how much funds would be needed for repatriation. In past years, he did not have any major problems in this area. He said there are some destitute persons who Government has to fund their return home. 1190. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired what happened when persons overstayed in the Territory. The CIO stated that the Government interviewed persons who overstayed and encouraged their family to pay the fare for those persons to leave. If they did not pay, the persons names would be placed on a stop list and they would not be allowed to return to the Territory. For persons who are employed, their employers are responsible for paying the expenses.

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1191. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if the Magistrates Court dealt with persons who overstayed in the territory. The CIO stated that persons who appeared in the Magistrates Court could be imprisoned for overstaying. 1192. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if this was the most economical way to deal with this matter. The CIO stated that he could not become involved in matters dealt with in the Magistrates Court. 1193. The Minister for Education and Culture asked whether any thought had been given to the merging of Immigrations and Customs forms to reduce the hassle to visitors. The CIO stated that he has had dialogue with the Commissioner of Customs regarding the merging of the two forms, and that he would follow up on this matter to make it a reality. 1194. The Minister of Education and Culture asked if he could give a time frame when he envisaged that the forms could be merged. The CIO stated that he could not give a date, but he would follow up on the matter and give an estimated date. 1195. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if persons who are married to Virgin Islanders are granted Belonger status after five years. The CIO stated that it is not automatic that these persons receive Belonger status. They are eligible to apply for Belonger status after five years of marriage once they reside within the Virgin Islands. 1196. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that this is a sore thumb and that this law needed to be addressed. 1197. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that some Immigration Officers ought to be commended for their good work. Those officers who are not doing a good job should be trained. He stated that he noted on some occasions at the Road Town Customs Port of Entry that a number of persons arrived from St. Thomas without Immigration forms. He asked whether it was possible for an Immigration Officer to walk around to ensure that the visitors have forms and that they are completed correctly.
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1198. The CIO stated that he does not have adequate staff to assign an Officer to walk around to review the Immigration forms. The Department has done it on some occasions in the past. However, it is not the Departments responsibility to do this. He stated that if the Department is provided with sufficient staff he would be willing to comply with this request. 1199. The Member for the Sixth District enquired about the reasons for refusing a person entry to the Territory. The CIO stated that Section 3 of the Immigration Act gives the grounds of refusal to the Territory. He stated that, if persons did not have the proper documents and if their passport expired, they were not eligible for admission (except for Canadians and US citizens who could enter with an expired passport). He has advised the public that he has no grounds to address matters of this nature. Persons can be refused for prostitution. He also stated that the Department is experiencing a problem whereby irregular documents are being detected. The Department would issue someone an entry permit and someone else would produce that same document. He said this has become a great cause of concern for the Department. 1200. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked whether the Immigration Officers have discretionary powers. The CIO stated that people use different reasoning for discretionary powers. He expects Immigration Officers to be reasonable and rational. 1201. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether when someone was refused entry, if the CIO could use his discretionary powers to allow him to enter the Territory. The CIO stated that the CIO and senior officers could overrule a decision made by an Immigration Officer, once there are grounds to prove that the person acted irrational. 1202. The Member for the Third District asked whether Virgin Islanders could return home without a passport. The CIO replied yes. He would call the airline and give

permission to allow the persons to return home without their passports.

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1203. The Member for the Second District stated that he is of the opinion that the reason for the merging of forms in the U.S. was because Customs and Immigration have joined together and are now called Border Control. Hence, there was no need for two forms. The CIO stated that he would have dialogue with the Commissioner of Customs as he cannot make a decision of this nature without buy-in from Customs. 1204. The Permanent Secretary, Premiers Office (PSPO) and the others in attendance introduced themselves. 1205. The Member for the Third District enquired about the fact that passengers on aircrafts landing in the Territory are being processed at the Terrence B. Lettsome Airport one aircraft at a time. He further explained that once a particular aircraft had landed and passengers begun to be processed that passengers on another aircraft which might have landed afterwards would be made to wait until that previous aircrafts passenger were finished being processed; and enquired why that was the case. 1206. The Chief Immigration Officer (CIO) stated that the scenario given should not be the case. However, there had been some problems with the carriers having complete manifests. As such, it had been difficult to determine which passengers had traveled on which carrier at the time of processing. 1207. The Member for the Third District was appreciative of the CIOs response and indicated that there needed to be some accountability on the count of the aircrafts and stated the need for fines to be levied as that sort of behaviour would not be tolerated at the other ports of entry such as Puerto Rico and the United States Virgin Islands. He asked that the CIO make proposals to ensure that this is fixed. 1208. The CIO further explained that meetings had been held with the carriers to impress upon them to comply with the regulations, but that had proven to have minimal effect. The CIO suggested the possibility of taking the carriers to court. Territorial Member, Archibald Christian suggested that the carriers should be fined. The CIO said that they would like to get administrative fines levied against those carriers who have been
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non-compliant, as was done in the United States Virgin Islands. However, they can only get those sorts of punishments through the courts. 1209. The Member for the Fifth District enquired if the Immigration Forms (ID cards) distributed on the flights were purchased by the airline carriers. The CIO answered in the affirmative. The Member for the Sixth District stated that when she was

travelling on several occasions the airline carrier stated that they did not have any of the ID cards available and enquired what could be the cause for that. The CIO indicated that there was a time that the Immigration Department was low on the cards and thus the Department was required to ration the cards. He further explained that at least one million cards were needed to comfortably distribute to the carriers. He stated that the department was indebted to a local printery as the department had to have the cards made locally in order to re-stock and distribute the same. 1210. The Member for the Fifth District enquired what would happen to a passenger who was not given an ID card on the vessel on which he/she was travelling. She explained an incident where she had witnessed a passenger who had not been given the ID card. The Immigration Officer did not offer to give the passenger one and that same passenger was made to wait until all of the other passengers were processed before being processed. The CIO indicated that that was not the proper process in which to handle the passenger. He explained the proper process as being one where the

Immigration Officer should have given the passenger the card and allowed that passenger to complete the card and get in the line. 1211. Territorial Member Archibald Christian enquired if the passenger previously mentioned by The Member for the Fifth District would be required to go to the end of the line once he/she had completed the ID card. The CIO indicated that he would have to look into that aspect of the matter in order that he may give an accurate answer. The CIO also stated that the ID cards can be obtained by the carriers in Puerto Rico.

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1212. Territorial Member Archibald Christian stated that the importance of the cards was great and thus there should be enough of a supply in order that the Immigration Department would not have to ration the cards. 1213. The Member for the Fifth District expressed that the way the passengers are handled should also be a priority. As she referred to her previous example given, she further stated that the passenger should not be sent to the back of the line after completing the ID card as non-receipt of the ID card would not have been the passengers fault and thus the passenger should not be made to suffer. The CIO reiterated that he would look into that. 1214. The Member for the Sixth District enquired if the allotted amount of money in the budget was sufficient for the printing of the ID cards. The CIO explained that while the department may require additional monies in order to maintain the stock of the cards, the money in the budget was to assist in printing items other than the ID cards. He stated that while they allotted $43,985 to take them through the fiscal year, the ID cards use the bulk of the money. 1215. The Member for the Third District indicated that the House Members learned earlier in the week that there were two Belonger Cards; one issued by the Passport Office and one issued by the Immigration Department. The CIO agreed that that was the case and explained the difference between the two cards. He stated that those who obtained Belonger status by means of ancestry would receive their card from the Passport Office while those who would obtain their card from the Immigration Department would receive their Belonger status under the Passport and Immigration Ordinance. He further stated that the department was supposed to contribute a portion of their funds towards the system used at the Passport Office, but they did not have enough funding to do so and thus could not contribute financially to the system. However, once the department receives enough funding, he would be able to contribute financially to the system. The Member for the Third District stated that one Belonger card should be printed in one location rather than at two different locations.
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The CIO replied that one card could not be printed because each card was granted under different sections of the law. 1216. Minister for the Ministry of Health and Social Development enquired further of the differences in the card. The Member for the Fifth District stated that it would appear as though a possible amendment to the Immigration and Passport Ordinance may be required in order that one card could be produced to serve the two purposes rather than to continue to have the production of the two cards. Minister for the Ministry of Health and Social Development enquired if the holder of either of the two cards arrived at a port of entry within the Territory, would they be treated differently. 1217. The PSPO informed Members that, as a new initiative, there were plans to create a Protocol Unit for both the public and private sector. She explained that the Unit would raise awareness and bring an understanding of policy and procedures of protocol. She gave the example of the proper protocol process for Members traveling on duty and what would be required for Members when they would travel off duty. 1218. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the possible challenges the Immigration Department may have been experiencing as it pertains to finding persons who have overstayed in the territory. The CIO indicated that those challenges were working themselves out. 1219. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the security of official documents as it pertains to the prevention of forgery. He further suggested that the inclusion of watermarks on those documents would prove to make forgery more difficult. The CIO said that the department was in the process of trying to implement the idea of watermarks, but that it would come at a considerable cost to initiate and maintain such a system. Territorial Member Archibald Christian asked if the CIO investigated the cost for such a system. The CIO answered in the negative and

indicated that he did not see the need since the budget had been cut by 7%.

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1220. The Member for the Eighth District reiterated that streamlining the Belonger card system could prove to be a money saver thus allowing for the possibility of the watermark system. He further suggested that discussions on streamlining the

Belonger card system be fast- tracked. 1221. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian indicated that the implementation of the watermarks was a security issue and that the CIO should investigate the costing of the same and revert that information to Members. 1222. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the avenue in which the Governor receives the necessary information for the purpose of deporting persons. The CIO explained the process. 1223. The Member for the Sixth District enquired about persons who are non-nationals, having children within the Territory, being required to pay for time for the children who were actually born in the Territory. The CIO explained that in order to obtain Belonger status, the parents must be settled in the Territory and have status. He further indicated that once the child has resided in the Territory for 10 years or more, they would be eligible to apply for registration under the British Nationality Act. The CIO explained that, until that time, the child would be subjected to Immigration control. 1224. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the computerization expenses indicted in subhead 62620, noting that there appeared to be a flat rate every year of $247,000.00 for the Entrex system. The CIO explained that the money allotted for the Entrex system was for maintenance and was paid to an overseas company. He further stated that the contract with the overseas company was for an indefinite period. 1225. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired further of the payment being made to an overseas company for the purpose of maintaining the system, indicating the possibility of looking at other options that may be more cost effective. The CIO
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stated that the cost for maintenance was $161,000.00, but that he would look further into the aforementioned figure. Members asked if they could get a copy of the contract, the CIO agreed. 1226. The Member for the Third District indicated that the requested monies could also be for licensing fees which could add up to a lot of money. 1227. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if the government subsidized the payment for the maintenance of the Entrex system every year. The CIO explained that the revenue earned by the Immigration Department was paid into Treasury; however, he could not specifically speak to the fact of it contributing to the payment of the maintenance for the Entrex system. 1228. The Member for the Eighth District asked in the Entrex system was being used at all ports of entry. The CIO stated that the system was not being used at all ports of entry. He explained that Anegada and Jost Van Dyke no longer utilize the system as the equipment could not withstand the elements and the flow of electricity also posed a problem for the system at those ports. As such, the effectiveness of the system was minimized and eventually unusable. 1229. The Member for the Eighth District asked if the system was a web based system. The CIO said he was not equipped to answer the question. 1230. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if the Entrex system was not being fully utilised then the country was not getting the full benefit of the product of which it was paying for and should seek to consult with the company to figure out how that aspect of the system could be fixed. 1231. The Member of Eighth asked who had been consulting or negotiating on behalf of the department as it pertained to the implementation of Entrex system. The CIO explained that DoIT helped with maintenance.

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1232. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired about the backlog that the department may have of persons who have applied for Belongers status. The CIO indicated that there were possibly 100 persons on that list. 1233. The Minister for Education and Culture expressed concern about the fact that he has met people who have been in the Territory for 30 years, have applied for their Belongers status and have not heard about the status of their application for a long time. The CIO explained that the process for application for Residency and Belonger status was such that the applications must be sent to the board, the board would make a recommendation and then their recommendation would be forwarded to Cabinet for the final decision. The CIO stated that he had no control over the speed of the board, although he agreed that the process was a slow one. He further stated that there was no policy which would indicate specifically how long the application process should take. He further stated that a policy was implemented in 2003 which would allow for some control over how the applications should be processed. 1234. The Member for the First District expressed his sincere thanks to the CIO and advised him that he was doing a good job and that he was a public servant that he admired. 1235. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that his dealing with the CIO had been courteous efficient and fair and he respected the fact that he was not easily intimidated. 1236. The CIO appreciated the comments made to him and advised that he would endeavour to do his best according to the law set before him. 1237. The Chairman thanked panel and the CIO for coming and giving information to the SFC.

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HEAD 230 Present:

INFORMATION AND PUBLIC RELATIONS

Mrs. Rosalie Adams Mrs. Elvia Smith-Maduro Mrs. Arlene T. Penn Mrs. Geraldine Ritter-Freeman Keith Dawson Mr. Jamal Jones

Permanent Secretary Assistant Secretary Director of Communications Chief Information Officer Liaison Officer Finance Officer

1238. The Chairman welcomed all in attendance to the Standing Finance Committee and asked that they state their names for the record. 1239. The Member for the Third District enquired about the amount of vacancies within the Department of Information and Public Relations. 1240. The Chief Information Officer (CInfO) indicated that there were three (3) vacancies within her department, namely Information Officer I, Photo Assistant and Clerical Officer. 1241. The Member for the Third District asked if there was an Information Officer placed in every ministry. The CInfO stated that there were five (5) Information Officers and each one was placed in a ministry. She added that the Ministry of Health and Social Development had their own Information Officer; hence an additional Information Officer was place in the Ministry of Finance. 1242. The Member for the Third District observed that there were six (6) ministries. The CInfO informed that the Deputy Governors Office had a Senior Administrative
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Officer responsible for the communications functions for the Governors Group and thus was not under the remit of the department of Information and Public Relations. 1243. The Member for the Third District stated that there had been a long discussion about the studio as it pertained to who could and could not use it. He explained that during the Christmas holiday season, certain Members of the House were at a disadvantage by not having access to a proper government facility for the purpose of producing their Christmas message. 1244. The CInfO recalled that there was a discussion on the matter a year or two ago, but she could not recall a consensus on how to move forward with opposition members ability to use the studio. She further stated that the department encouraged everyone to use the studio as much as possible. 1245. The Minister for Education and Culture expressed how pleased he was with his Information Officer, Ms. Colene Penn. He stated that she took good care of him and his ministry. He, indicated, however, that he had a problem with the bureaucracy that existed around getting the information out to the public. He further stated that the online media houses were rendering the department of Information and Public Relations almost obsolete because of the length of time it would take for the government information to reach the public. 1246. The CInfO asked Members to look at the advertising and promotional expenses which totaled $55,000.00. She explained that a one hour daily time slot costs $24, 000.00 for JTV and CBN which added up to $48,000.00. She added that the remainder would be used to cover radio, online, and print ads. 1247. Territorial Member Archibald Christian asked what the cost would be to create an online site. 1248. The CInfO explained that there had been no investigations done on that subject area. However, she had advised Members that the department had addressed the college television station, channel 52, in an effort to try to work with them in getting the !"#$%'$'%&'%"#$%

government information out to the public.

She advised that while the station

managers were very receptive to the idea, the quality of the station was not the best and so the department would be working on improving that area. She further advised that the transmitter for Cable TV was recently changed thus some improvement had been seen in the picture quality of the channel. She stated that the current budget with which they must work did not allow for the department to go the route they would have liked to go in order to get the information out to the public in a high quality, timely manner. 1249. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian suggested that the CInfO look at getting an online site for the department and revert to Members because the organisation should be competitive in the online arena. He advised that the maintenance fees and staffing figures should be included in the submitted information to ensure there would be no hidden fees. 1250. The CInfO agreed. She added that the department was maintaining the Gateway but the Gateway could not compete with the other local online news sites. 1251. The Member for the First District asked if the aim of the discussion was to ensure that the governments message was accurately and expeditiously sent to the public. The CInfO answered in the affirmative. 1252. The Member for the First District asked if the backbenchers would have access to this website. The CInfO indicated that she did not know if that was a decision that she could make; it would be a matter that she would have to discuss with the PSPO. 1253. The CInfO informed Members that the Director of Communications had submitted a Communications Plan to the ministers and she was currently working on those plans with them. Once agreed, the CInfO explained that the plan would be communicated to her department and together they would seek to proceed as directed by the Ministers.

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1254. The Member for the Fifth District enquired about the role of the Director of Communications. The Director of Communications explained that her role was to oversee the strategic direction of the Information and Public Relations Department and she was also responsible for the image of the government. She stated that she was in agreement with the suggestion of creating an online site added that the time had come for the Information Officers to become backpack journalists in order to keep up with the other journalists in the Territory. 1255. The Member for the Fifth District suggested that there were other ways for government information to get to the public. 1256. The Minister for Education and Culture indicated that the online site for government would have the most accurate form of information given to the public as it pertained to government information. The CInfO added that the online site would help by giving the ministers the confidence to relay the information through their Information Officers without the concern of the timeliness of the information being challenged; hence they would consult the Information Officers and they would produce their own articles rather than sending same to the outside media houses. 1257. The Minister for Health and Social Development concurred with his colleagues earlier comment on the need for an online site and asked the CInfO if another news site reported wrong information would the Information Officers counter that wrong information. The CInfO replied by stating that they would not counter the wrong information because they would have already accurately reported the information. She further stated that the Information Officers would have had prior knowledge of the subject matter and would be proactive about getting the correct information out to the public. 1258. The Minister for Health and Social Development further stated that the online site would not be used as a political tool. concurred.
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The Minister for Education and Culture

1259. The Member for the First District also agreed with the need for an online site and stated that the Minister for Health and Social Development made a very important point about the information needing to be efficient although one could not control interpretation. He added that it would not be a good idea to censor the media. 1260. The Minister for Education and Culture and Territorial Member Archibald said that they were not talking about censoring the media. 1261. The Member for the Fifth District asked how often Press Releases were issued and could that number be improved pending that online site. She further asked if the government had enough information to create a daily press release. 1262. The CInfO responded by saying that the government did not have the vehicle to put out information as they would had liked. She explained that the department issued approximately four (4) press releases a day. She further explained that, depending on what was released, the information would drop down to the bottom of the news site. 1263. The Leader of the Opposition (LOP) asked if Members could leave the House of Assembly with the assurance that the estimated costs for the Department of Information and Public Relations would be re-casted to include the cost of the online site. 1264. The Member for the First District expressed that as the previous Minister for Education, he found the Department of Information and Public Relations to be efficient and effective. They continue to have his support and they must let him know whether the backbenchers could use the studio. He further indicated that he admired the young ladies work; they studied the ministries and they gave the ministers Information Officers who matched with their personality. He asked that they pass on the compliment to their officers because they were great over the years. 1265. The CInfO expressed gratitude and explained that another initiative they were preparing to do was to create more documentary type programmes where they could really delve into the issues at hand. She further encouraged the ministers to !"#$%'$)%&'%"#$%

communicate with their Information Officers if or when they may see something in the news that may not meet their approval. The Officers have recorders and could record a statement from the ministers and that statement could be forwarded to the respective media houses in a very timely manner. She reiterated to members that all things mentioned had a cost. 1266. The Chairman thanked the panel for coming and for answering the questions and concerns raised by the Members.
%

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HEAD 240 Present:

TOWN AND COUNTRY PLANNING

Mrs. Rosalie Adams Mrs. Marva Titley-Smith Mrs. Elvia Smith-Maduro Mr. Jamal Jones

Permanent Secretary, Premiers Office (PSPO) Chief Planner, Town and Country Planning (CP) Assistant Secretary, Premiers Office (ASPO) Finance and Planning Officer, Premiers Office (FPOPO)

1267. The Chairman thanked the panel for attending the deliberations, and requested that they state their names and positions for the record. 1268. The CP gave a preamble of planning and the Departments functions. She explained the two aspects of planning, developing planning which is long term, having an oversight of the way in which the Territory should proceed in community developments and development control, the response given to development

applications on a case by case basis. She further explained that the media tend to focus more on development control. She stated that planning should be looked at in a holistic view, mapping the way forward and then responding to applications in that framework. She also stated the importance of having the resources in place for carrying out the two planning aspects and the support mechanism and regulations necessary to enforce the planning act. The CP gave the SFC a list of concerns raised by the Planning Authority, which identify the need for regulations to support the planning act. She added that the act was revised in 2004 but the guidelines are still from 1972. She stated that the guidelines were outdated and should be brought up to speed. She further stated that if there were no funds available to get the regulations drafted the Department would liaise with the Attorney Generals Chambers as a way forward. The CP commented on the importance of having a National Physical

Development Plan which would focus on future developments in terms of physical environment and a look at community by community. She also commented on the
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number of applications that failed to meet the minimum planning requirement on submission. She noted that statistically 69% of the applications are being approved, 25% are deferred, 3% are refused and 15 applications are pending as of December 31st 2011. Subhead 60300 Authorized Staff 1269. She also noted that one of her concerns was having two inspectors to enforce and monitor developments for the entire Territory. She also stated that the post of

Physical Planner II was advertised and interviews were conducted but to date the post was still vacant. She also mentioned that the vacant posts included Information Manager, Planning Technician II and Clerical Officer. 1270. The Member for the Second District enquired whether the 2004 Planning Act was enforced. The CP stated that 2004 Planning Act was enacted in 2005. She noted that there are certain aspects of the Act that are not fully implemented such as the Regulations. She further noted that the 13 Regulations have not been put in place at present. 1271. The Member for the Second District asked if the regulation was not in place, what the Department was guided by. 1272. The CP stated that the Department was still guided by the 1972 Guidelines. The Member for the Second District made reference to the 25% deferred applications in the CP report and enquired the percentage of applications that was submitted by a qualified architect and what percent of applications was submitted by homeowners who do not have professional qualification of an architect and whether they were still being approved under the 2005 Planning Act. 1273. The CP explained that the Act does not speak to who is qualified but once the regulations are put in place there would be a section enforcing the architect qualification in order to submit a plan. She further stated that there was currently no registration of architects or engineers in the Territory. She noted that this was a cause
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for concern as any agent could submit an application for a plan to be approved. She further noted the PWD was working on putting the registry in place but not much progress has taken place to date. She added that she cannot speak at this stage to what percentage are qualified architect and what percentage are not as the qualifications upon submission of plans vary. 1274. The Member for the Second District enquired about the Association of Architects and Engineers. He also asked for clarification from the CP if the only requirement by applicant submitting their plan was a Trade License in development or drawing. 1275. The CP stated that Association of Architects and Engineers has been inactive for some years. She further stated that membership for that group was based on the person interest and not their qualifications. The CP stated that the only requirement to submit your plan was a Trade License. 1276. The Member for the Second District asked if when an application is submitted for subdivisions of land whether they go directly to the Town and Country Planning for approval and if so, explain the criteria for approval. 1277. The CP stated that subdivisions go to the Town and Country Planning, Survey Department and then Land Registry Department once approved. She explained that some of the criteria for approval from the planning prospective would be the size of the lot created, features that may exist, e.g. ghuts, vehicular access, use of the land and ownership of the land. She added that the other agencies would have other aspect they take into consideration for approval. 1278. The Member for the Second District enquired what measures have been put in place by the Town and Country Planning Department in reference to the poor drainage and water courses. 1279. The CP stated that they work closely with the PWD and DDM to address any drainage situation. She also stated that one concern when developing land was the effect drainage and water courses had on neighboring properties. She further stated !"#$%'!$%&'%"#$%

that when you are subdividing it was important to capture the main issues and the way they would be handled. She also commented that once the regulation was put in place some of these concerns would be addressed by issuing the necessary permits. 1280. The Member for the Second District queried the benefits of having the Building Authority and the Town and Country Planning merged into one Department. 1281. The CP stated that this was suggested by Tony Gibbs, an engineer conducting a project, who suggested that the two Departments be merged. She explained that one of the benefits of the merge was better application response. She further explained that to date applicants would have to submit a plan for land view issues and general planning issues for approval by the Town and Country Planning Department. She stated that this approval would then be taken to the Building Authority where the applicant had to submit another application for other issues for approval. She noted that this system leads to some frustration on the applicant part and some issues tend to get missed between Departments. She added that applicants take advantage of these two separate processes and submit one plan to TCPD and other to PWD. She also

added that if these issues were looked at as one entity they would be addressed more effectively. 1282. The Member for the Second District enquired whether the Building Authority was functioning effectively. The CP stated that she could not speak to the effectiveness of the Building Authority as this unit falls under the Public Works Department, Ministry of Communications and Works. 1283. The Member for the Second District emphasized the importance of zoning and implementation of same. He asked how does CPD monitor developments and make proper decisions without the regulations being in place to be guided accordingly. 1284. The CP explained that the TCPD are still guided by the 1972 guidelines. She stated that the Planning Authority consist of various professional with different disciplines that weigh in how a particular application is approached based on the person expertise
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economics, construction, fisheries, environmental, etc. She added that the biggest difficulty the Department has is responding to applications with the absences of an overall development plan for the Territory. 1285. The Member for the Second District enquired whether the TCPD or the Conservation and Fisheries Department were responsible for developments on the sea bed and other costal developments. 1286. The CP stated that because the coast was involved it would be multidisciplinary. She added that the Ministry of Natural resources and Labour, Conservation and Fisheries Department, Department of Disaster Management and the Planning Authority would be involved with any coastal development. She also added that the developer would need to have a seabed lease from the MNRL which would have input from the CFD and other agencies. She further added that the developer would need to have planning approval for the planning authority as well as the building authority. 1287. The Member for the Second District sought clarity as to what the Regulations would entail. 1288. The CP stated that the regulations covered a wide range of areas such as how applications should be made, who can submit an application, how to consult on various applications and who should be consulted, how to modify or revoke an application approval, compliance notice, claim for compensation, procedure for environmental impact assessment, regulations for subdivision of land, making up of private streets, enquiries on land, fees that should be paid under the Act, qualification of persons making plans or signing, controlling signs and ads, public access to beaches, preservation of buildings or sites, register to get information on decisions made by the Planning Authority. 1289. The Member for the Second District enquired whether the transfer of private road to public road, after a certain development, would fall under the regulations for approval.
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1290. The CP stated that this would not fall under the Planning Act but under the Road Classification Act which falls under the Ministry of Communications and Works, Public Works Department, which was dealt with separately. 1291. The Member for the Second District was of the opinion that the CP was a member of the Building Authority Board and that the Director of Public Works Department was a member of the Planning Authority Board. The CP stated that the Building

Authority has no representation from the Planning Authority; however the DPWD was in fact a member of the Planning Authority Board. 1292. The Member for the Third District referred to an incident in which a group of approximately 25 contractors among which were design professionals and quantity surveyors, made representation to the Government regarding their inability in getting certain approvals from TCPD in a timely manner. He further stated that this

information was then relayed to the TCPD by the then Premier. He also mentioned that sometime around 4 months subsequent to that encounter the contractors returned with the same complaints, and as such government committed to seek additional help for the TCPD. The Member for the Third District queried whether the CP was aware of those complaints. 1293. The CP stated that she was aware of some sort of complaints, but all were not brought to her attention. She stated that when persons complained about the Department they do not come directly to her. She added that there was a myth about the number of applications that were being held by the TCPD to the tune of 500 applications. It was quite a concerning number but that was not the case. She noted that prior to that

incident the TCPD released their statistical report that stated that the TCPD received and processed 511 applications; however the public misinterpreted the statistics, and felt that the 511 applications were sitting at the TCPD waiting to be processed. She stated that she was aware about a group that went to the then Premier. She also stated that their concerns were brought to her attention and was asked to make a presentation to Cabinet in November 2010, which did not materalise.
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She then wrote to Cabinet

asking for another opportunity to go and discuss these concerns and how they could be addressed. She stated that she was afforded the opportunity in October 2011 to give a presentation about the planning process. She added that the follow up was that a subsequent session be held with the new administration. 1294. The Member for the Third District enquired on the status of the building that was obstructing traffic in Duffs Bottom. 1295. The CP stated that there was a portion of the building in Duffs Bottom that was built without the Planning Authority permission. She further stated that a Compliance Notice and a Stop Order was issued and became a case before the Magistrate Court. She informed the SFC that the Magistrate made a judgment to which the individual was found guilty of not adhering to the notices and was ordered to demolish the portion of the building. The CP stated that the individual was given a time frame to which the illegal portions of the building should be demolished but he did not adhere, in which case the Magistrate gave the CP as per the Planning Act the authority to do so. She noted that the unauthorized portion of the building has since been demolished at the individuals expense. 1296. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired the period it took to process this case and also stated that was not a new structure. 1297. The CP stated that she was involved for the last two years, but the case has been going on for the last six years. She further stated that the original structure has been there for many years but the addition was fairly new over the last six years. 1298. The Member for the Third District stated the Planning Act give the CP the authority to enter premises and demolish a structure at the individuals cost if noncompliant. He questioned whether this Act came into play after due processes or immediately after the individual failed to comply. 1299. The CP stated that the individual would be given some level of caution and if they do not comply the matter would go through the court process. She added that the matter !"#$%'!(%&'%"#$%

would then be referred to the Attorney Generals Chambers to advise whether there was a suitable case and if so the matter could be taken up by the Department of Public Prosecutions on behalf of the TCPD. 1300. The Member for the Third District enquired of the CP whether in a case such as Duffs Bottom if public relation was used to keep the public informed on the process, procedures, reasons for taken action and the duties the Government has to perform. 1301. The CP stated that the TCPD has liaised with the Director of Communication in the Premiers Office to send the information to the public. She stated that a press release was issued and the Department was mindful of how much to say as the matter was pending before the courts. She noted that the matter in terms of the demolition was resolved but there was another matter which dealt with the fines to be levied that was still due to go back to the court. She further stated that the Department disseminated the information in a tone that alert persons to be mindful and adhere to the Planning Act when constructing buildings in the Territory. 1302. The CP stated that these issues would be looked at closely. She further stated that these issues speak to the role of the Planning Authority and Building Authority. She noted that site constructing and retaining walls would be handled by the Building Authority and that the Planning Authority weighed in on the use of the development and site. She further stated that one of the issues was that persons were not prepared to have the necessary cost of having a surveyor layout the building according to the plans and an engineer who would advise on how the wall should be constructed, they would rather go to the site with their contractor and begin to build. She mentioned

that the Regulations do not allow the TCPD to deal directly with those issues, making it mandatory to have those professionals on site. She added that the Building and Planning need to come together to address these issues. She also stated that when it comes to road, drainage, ghuts etc the TCPD involves other agencies and in a similar fashion needed to be looked at in terms of dealing with walls and the cutting of site. She further stated that the Planning Act neither the Guidelines addressed these issues.
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She also made reference to the change permit that was required in other Territories and are not in place in the BVI. 1303. The Member for the Third District stated that neither the present Government, Governments Past nor Governments to come could have a Minister that would devote the kind of attention that is necessary to make these legislations come to fruition especially in the case of planning. He further stated that another approach needed to be taken where the officers in the TCPD need to make sure that these issues are at the forefront at all times, so that no matter what Government comes into play would understand the needs for those legislation. He also stated that he admired the

legislation of the US Virgin Islands and that TCPD should find a way to form a union with the neighbouring islands for the purpose of finding ways to learn from their practices. 1304. The Member for the Fifth District enquired what kind of action was being taken by the TCPD to correct these issues. 1305. The Member for the Third District noted that he was aware that certain subjects were best placed in the Premiers Office for obvious reasons. He stated that planning was very important to the Territory and thought that the time has come to start taking a different approach as it comes to planning as it required dedicated ministerial attention. He stated that planning required monitoring as it was not a subject that you would leave up to the Department and expect things to happen. He added that planning was the heart and soul of the development of the Territory. 1306. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that he served on the Planning Authority Board for five years and understands the frustration and challenges experienced by the TCPD. He further stated that he supported the recommendations submitted to the SFC. He also noted that Human Resources were a very important element in ensuring orderly developments within the Territory. He stated that one important component of development was zoning
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and the urgency for

implementation. The Territorial Member pointed out that as a real estate appraiser

every development in the Territory has a value from the Cow Pen to the Mansion. He also stated that depending where they are constructed they impact each other positively or negatively. He mentioned that zoning helps the public to plan proper development. He also urged that more inspections be carried out by the TCPD Inspectors as there were a number of new developments taking place within the Territory. Planners have to pay closer attention to development and ensure that the proper procedures are being adhered. 1307. The Member for the Third District mentioned his concern in reference to the issues of sewerage as persons are putting up structures and are not following the proper procedures for the placement of septic systems. He also noted that some of these cesspools are built in solid rock so there was no leeching. been done by the TCPD to rectify such a problem. 1308. The CP stated that sewerage was something that TCPD worked closely with the Environmental Health Department (EHD) to address. She noted that there was some concern on the sizing and placement of these systems. She also noted they looked at mandatory treatment systems and how this would be addressed would be discussed further by both agencies. She stated that in terms of sighting the septic tanks He enquired what was

placement was a part of the planning application. She also stated that the planning guidelines provided guidance as to where the septic should be placed. She mentioned that the TCPD had a standard design by which all agencies had to adhere in the actual application process. She noted that the TCPD does not get involved in the actual construction of these septic and rely on the EHD to follow-up and make sure that the septic are built according to the plan. 1309. The Chairman thanked the CP for appearing before the SFC.

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HEAD 250 Present:

TRADE AND CONSUMER AFFAIRS

Mrs. Rosalie Adams Mrs. Elvia Smith-Maduro Miss Lizette George Mrs. Arlene T. Penn Mr. Jamal Jones

Permanent Secretary Assistant Secretary Director of Trade and Consumer Affairs Director of Communications Finance Officer

1310. The Chairman welcomed the panel and asked that they state their names for the record, to which they complied 1311. The Member for the Third District asked if there were any vacancies in the office of Trade and Consumer Affairs. The Director for Trade and Consumer Affairs indicated that there were two (2) vacancies, namely Licensing and Registration Officer and an Executive Officer. 1312. The Member for the Third District enquired if the posts given were existing posts. The DTCA answered in the affirmative. 1313. The Member for the Third District asked, for the purpose of clarity, if all of the new posts that were under the Ministry of Finance were labeled as new. The Financial Secretary indicated that in the Treasury Department where it stated two (2) Management Accountants, there should only be one (1), and the post of Office Cleaner should not have the label new post as it was granted to them in the 2011 budget. 1314. The Member for the Second District enquired about subhead 62750 and how it worked with the position of the Business Consultant and Developer. He further asked
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if the consultant was working within the Department of Trade and Consumer Affairs or if it was a function in her capacity as Director. 1315. The DTCA, for clarity, asked if the query was specifically about the new consultant that was hired to work with the Department of Trade and Consumer Affairs. The

Member for the Second District answered in the affirmative. The DTCA stated that it was her understanding that the consultant was hired to work with the Premiers Office on a number of matters, one of which was the Small Business Bureau. 1316. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the Trade License process as it appeared that the application process took an exceptionally long time. He further recalled having to intervene for an applicant who had applied some seven (7) years prior to receiving a response; his application was to operate a food van. He stated that there were other applications that appeared to take a relatively short time. 1317. The DTCA replied that a number of factors could have been involved in the extended time period certain applications took to be processed. She gave examples and

indicated that there was a moratorium on trade licenses for food vans at one point. She explained that moratoriums were placed on businesses based on saturation. 1318. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if there was a time frame within the department from the date an application had been submitted to the date of approval that a person could expect to receive a response. The DTCA stated that the application process could take approximately 4 to 6 weeks and added that the department had a procedural manual that gave details on the processing time. 1319. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what would happen if an application was sent to the Premiers Office and not returned within the allotted six weeks. The DTCA replied that the officers within the department would follow up. She further stated that there would be situations when certain applications would be returned to the department for further processing or may have required more information at which time the relevant applicants would have been contacted.
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1320. The LOP enquired if there were any plans to reorganise the department. 1321. The DTCA informed Members that since 2006 they had been trying to restructure the department. She explained that the department currently comprises of six (6)

divisions: Administration, Planning and Research, Trade Development, Investment Facilitation, Business Development and Consumer Affairs. She further explained that over the years the divisions had been developed in phases. They had been operating the Business Development aspect in terms of licenses of businesses, the Trade Development aspect and Planning and Research aspect in terms of developing policies and creating necessary legislation for the other units. She continued to state that the Consumer Affairs Division was governed under the Consumer Act and the Fair Competition Act, both of which were with the Attorney Generals Chambers. She stated that the department was seeking to amend the Business Profession and Trade License Act which was also with the AGC. All of which was done through the Trade Policy of the Virgin Islands which was approved in November 2011. She added that the department was in the process of renaming their Licensing and Registration Officer to Deputy Director of Trade and Consumer Affairs. The purpose of the Deputy Director would be to manage the micro issues which would be the operational issues and the Director would manage the macro issues which would the policy development and general international and regional organisations. She

continued by stating that the department had also sourced two (2) proposals to deal with the work flow for the processing of trade license applications with a view to creating a more efficient process. She continued by saying that the proposals received so far were from two (2) local companies that would provide software and technical expertise in establishing and creating the work flow system for the trade license process as well as create a web base where persons could apply, track and make payments for their trade licenses. 1322. The Member for the Eighth District asked who was assisting the department with evaluating the proposal. The DTCA indicated that they would meet with the two (2) companies to review the proposals.
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1323. The Member for the Eighth District asked if the DTCA sent out a RFP or the service they were seeking. The DTCA replied that the request was made through the

Department of IT (DoIT) to assist in revamping the current database as well as identify a company who would provide a suitable database. However, the two (2) companies approached the department and provided them with the necessary information required and then they proceeded accordingly. 1324. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that it would appear as though the DTCA was working towards making the department more efficient to assist the public. The DTCA concurred. 1325. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if there was a list of businesses that were placed on a moratorium. The DTCA stated that there was no list that existed, however, there was a list of areas that were identified as moratoriums; that list was not made public. The public would be made aware of the likelihood of their possible approval or denial at the time their application was submitted and a reason would be given accordingly. 1326. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what type of businesses appeared on the list. The DTCA stated that the list would vary according to the discretion of the Ministry but noted that food vans, car rentals, beauty salons, mobile car washes and the importation of used vehicles were on the list. She also stated that the department was working on establishing certain standards for the different categories or activities of businesses that appeared on the list. She indicated that they had adopted the UN Economic Code of Businesses that would also make the licensing and regulations process more efficient. legislation. 1327. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what would be the measuring stick used to place moratoriums on the businesses. The DATC replied that the decision would be based on saturation.
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This, she indicated, would all come on stream through

1328. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if the list was reviewed. The DTCA answered by saying that once a new application was submitted to the department and the need to revise and review the moratoriums was revealed, then same would be carried out at the discretion of the Minister. 1329. The Member for the Third District queried if the example given isnt exactly what is referred to in a free market as protectionism. The DTAC answered in the negative and explained that with any economy the government must look at its structure and needs and then determine the area it would want to set the moratorium on. She

further indicated that this would ensure help to ensure that the economy grew in a systematic way. 1330. The Member for the Third District and Territorial Member Archibald Christian disagreed with the DTCAs response and offered supporting examples of protectionism to establish their point. Territorial Member Archibald Christian further stated his belief in a free market system. 1331. The LOP asked if the DTCA thought that the officers in the Department of Trade and Consumer Affairs realised the importance of their jobs for the overall country. 1332. The DTCA offered a brief history of the Department of Trade and Consumer Affairs and stated that there was focus on trade development. She stated that there was bit of evolution over the years but she could not say for certain that the staff fully understood the departments mission and ability to drive economic development. She cited the reason as there being only one technical person in the department while the rest of the staff were administrative hence the mission could not be effectively addressed. 1333. The LOP agreed and offered examples to support his reason for the question. 1334. The Member for the First District commended the DTCA and said that through the challenges she did well and congratulated and encouraged her to keep on pushing through the changes in trade. The DTCA said thank you. !"#$%'&&%&'%"#$%

1335. The Chairman thanked the panel for coming and for addressing the concerns raised by Members.

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HEAD 255 Present:

BVI INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS UNIT

Mrs. Rosalie Adams Ms. Maritza Mercer

Permanent Secretary, Premiers Office, (PSPO) Chief Operations Officer, B.V.I. International Finance Centre (BVIIFC)

Mrs. Elvia Smith-Maduro Mr. Jamal Jones Ms. Elise Donovan

Assistant Secretary, Premiers Office (ASPO) Finance and Planning Officer, Premiers Office (FPOPO) Designate to head the B.V.I. International Affairs Unit (BVIIAU)

1336. The Chairman welcomed the members of the Premiers Office team and asked them to state their names to which they complied. 1337. The PSPO stated that they were reorganising in that the B.V.I. International Affairs Unit (BVIIAU) and the B.V.I. International Finance Centre (BVIIFC) had recently been reassigned to the Premiers Office (PO). She also stated that she was conducting meetings with a number of staff members, and they were trying to build the structure. She added that she would be able to report later, for it would be premature to report at this time. 1338. The Chairman sought clarity from the PSPO as to whether she would like to re-appear before the SFC to report on the BVIIAU. 1339. The PSPO stated that she would welcome the opportunity to do so, and an individual had been identified to head the Secretariat. She further stated that discussions had just begun, so time would be needed to complete those discussions, and then present a plan.
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1340. The Chairman stated that, if that was the case, this would bring the days proceedings to a close and thanked the PSPO and her team for coming. 1341. As a matter of concluding this discussion in its entirety, the Premier requested that Ms. Elise Donovan, designate to head the BVIIAU, appear before the SFC. 1342. Ms. Donovan appeared before the SFC, and stated that the BVIIAU was undergoing restructuring and she had been selected as the designate Director of the Unit. She reiterated the points made by the PSPO that the Unit was being established and, at a later time, the plan could be presented to Government. 1343. The Chairman thanked the panel for appearing before the SFC to answer questions posed by Members.

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HEAD 260 Present:

MINISTRY OF FINANCE

Mr. Neil Smith Mrs. Maria Thomas

Financial Secretary (FS) Finance and Planning Officer - Ministry of Finance (FPOMOF)

1344. The Chairman thanked the panel for attending the deliberations, and requested that they state their names and positions for the record. 1345. The Financial Secretary (FS) stated that many of the initiatives for the Ministry of Finance (MOF) in the year 2012 were stated explicitly in the latter part of the Budget speech delivered by the Minister for Finance. Subhead 62400 Contribution to overseas organizations 1346. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that under this Subhead, reference was made to Dun and Bradstreet. He therefore requested background information on the role and location of Dun and Bradstreet. 1347. The FS stated that Dun and Bradstreet was a company that was used to carry out due diligence work for the MoF. He added that there were cases where the MoF

conducted business with other companies, and Dun and Bradstreet would carry out research to discover the financial history of those companies and whether such companies may have had any occurrences with the Courts. company was located in Washington, USA. 1348. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether there was an annual fee or was the fee based on a request to carry out due diligence to which the FS stated that there was a retainer fee. He stated that the

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Subhead 62700 Consultancy Expenses 1349. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the current status of the pension reform. The FS stated that an actuarial study was carried out a number of years ago and work was also done within the MoF to tailor the scheme to prevent it from having a dire effect on the Civil Servants. He added that the matter went before the Cabinet but it was not given due consideration. 1350. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether this was the same as the National Pension Scheme that was envisioned. 1351. The FS stated that it was not the same, but was the actual pension scheme for the Civil Service. He also stated that the pension liability of the Government of the Virgin Islands was not funded so it called on our financials. He explained that, as a risk management measure, the MoF was seeking to create a position where the pension liability would be charged from an actual pension fund. He further explained that the MoF had a defined benefit scheme where it stated that, even as people became pensionable, the pensions were to be paid at a particular rate that was previously defined, and it was not sustainable in the long run. He informed that the pension liability was approximately two hundred and fifty million dollars ($ 250,000,000) and a scheme was to be developed to ensure that pensions were not a liability on Governments accounts, but from a pension fund which would have been separate and apart from Governments financial statements. 1352. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether this pension scheme was separate and different to the pension scheme that the Labour Department had implemented. The FS stated that the scheme was different and it was designed solely for the Civil Service, and the idea was to have a defined contribution scheme and not a defined benefit scheme. 1353. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked for a breakdown of the three hundred thousand dollars ($ 300,000) for the New Peebles Hospital. The FS stated
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that the monies were allotted for the services of BCQS for the work that was done on the New Peebles Hospital. 1354. The Member for the Third District queried whether the $ 300,000 allotted to the consultancy services for the New Peebles Hospital Project included project management. 1355. The FS stated that the money allotted to the New Peebles Hospital Project was not for project management. He also stated that the project was fairly complex and the quantity surveying services along with other specialised services were to be carried out along with other administrative tasks. He further stated that the consultants provided support to the project manager within the MoF. 1356. The Member for the Third District stated that there were two Departments in Government that were dealing with the New Hospital contract. He stated that he required clarification as it was his understanding that the MoF negotiated and signed the contracts and thereafter they would be turned over to the relevant Ministry. He further stated that he was aware that there was a project manager under the Ministry of Health and Social Development. He then enquired how the situation would be read since these consultants were still heavily involved in this project. 1357. The FS stated that the MoF had gotten heavily involved in the New Hospital Project because, in the opinion of the MoF, the Ministry at that time needed support that the MoF could have provided. He explained that improvisation of skills was imperative in dealing with this project and there were instances where the MoF had to recruit skills from external parties namely BCQS and other short-term consultants. He also stated that it was necessary that the support remained to ensure that the project was completed. He further stated that the MoF was not as involved as before, and some changes were made to the Project Office. He stated that the funding for the project was funnelled through the MoF on behalf of the Government of the Virgin Islands but most of the instructions were coming from the Ministry of Health and Social Development.
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1358. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian questioned whether the accrual accounting system had been implemented, or whether it was a work in progress. The FS stated that the accrual accounting system was a work in progress, and there were many facets that needed to be completed before the MOF was able to switch over to accruals. 1359. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the thirty thousand dollars ($ 30,000) for the accrual accounting represented payment for the services that was being provided by a company, and whether this type of accounting system would have made the Government accounting system more efficient and effective. 1360. The FS stated that the said monies would have been used in the event that a consultant had to be contracted to carry out work on the accrual accounting system. The FS explained that the system would not be able to do so by itself and there were many issues with the financial system. He added that there was work to be carried out on the financial system itself to reconfigure the IT platform. He also added that, although the system was adequate to carry out the required tasks, there were some glitches that needed to be eradicated and also that there were some compliance issues with accounting methods. He advised that a clear set of guidelines were to be established which would state how accounting was to be done within the Government and also to ensure that everyone was following these guidelines. He informed that there were some challenges with the Chart of Accounts, which was not in its most optimal configuration, and work was to be carried out on that as well. 1361. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian then enquired whether there were a series of initiatives in respect of the accrual accounting system, and whether a time frame had been established to have this system implemented. 1362. The FS stated that there were a series of initiatives which were to be sequenced properly to ensure that the system would be implemented, and the basic goal was to ensure that the fundamentals were correct. He also stated that, once these were in place, a policy would have to be developed to enable the MOF to shift to modified
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accruals. He noted that, on a cash-based system, it was virtually impossible to have a good idea of the fiscal position. He informed that the goal was to shift to accruals to ensure that the fiscal position of the Government of the Virgin Islands was represented in the most accurate manner possible in comparison to international standards. He added that this initiative was to be completed years ago, and he hoped that the fundamentals would be completed in 2012, although the entire project would not be completed. He further added that it was imperative that this system received the full buy-in, not only from the MOF but from the entire Civil Service. 1363. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried what would stop any other Department or Ministry from buying-in to the accounting system after proof of the systems capability had been given. He also queried whether there was a trial process set to expose persons to the system and ultimately ensure the full support of the Service. 1364. The FS stated that change was painful for many persons within the Service, and they would have to be convinced of the systems effectiveness. He also stated that the implementation of a new system took persons out of their comfort zone and, as such, resistance would be given. He also stated that it was expected that persons would be sensitised and educated to understand what was exactly required. He confirmed that no trial period had been set, but the transition was gauged to be smooth and gentle. He further stated that the process was not foreseen to be difficult, but simply a matter of fiscal discipline. He added that there was no need to have both systems run parallel to each other. He explained that the exercise were to establish the fundamentals and ensure the accounting standards were understood by everyone. Upon completion, he informed that a more complex phase would be undertaken, but that the ultimate decision would be an issue for the Minister of Finance and the Members of Cabinet. Subhead 60300 Authorized Staff 1365. The Member for the Third District wondered whether there were any vacancies in the MoF and whether there was a desire to fill such posts.
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1366. The Finance and Planning Officer (FPOMOF) stated that there were approximately 12 vacancies in the MoF namely: 1 Assistant Secretary 1 Web Design Specialist/Coordinator 2 Financial Analysts 2 Budget Officers 1 Project Administrator 1 Special Projects Officer 1 Senior Planning Officer

1367. The FS stated that he had no desire to have these positions filled as he preferred a small but effective organisation. He also stated that, once the MoF attained objectives with the current complement of staff, there was no need for increased staff. 1368. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the FS preferred a small yet efficient staff in the MoF, and the FS confirmed that this was his preference. 1369. The Member for the Third District questioned whether the vacant and unnecessary posts could be shifted to other Departments who required a larger staffing complement. The FS stated that it was possible to have these posts shifted, but the ethos was to have a small yet efficient organisation. He also stated that although these posts were established in the MoF, they were not funded unless someone was holding the post. 1370. The Member for the Third District enquired whether these posts were established and technically funded to grant the MoF permission to have these posts filled when necessary. The FS stated that allowances had to be made for the posts to be filled. 1371. The Member for the Third District enquired whether that was an administrative issue that could be dealt with in the MoF. The FS stated that it was an administrative task, but the MoF had the permission to have those posts filled.
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1372. The Member for the Third District wondered whether it was the philosophy of the MOF and the Government of the Virgin Islands that, even though those posts were authorised, that the size of the Civil Service should not grow. The FS stated that it was understood by him that that was the intention of the Government of the Virgin Islands. 1373. The Member for the Third District stated that there were a number of Departments with vacancies that came before the Standing Finance Committee with the desire to fill them. He added that there were instances where Departments had requested authorisation to increase the number of authorised staff. 1374. The FS stated that a manager should be able to make a judgment call to decide whether increased staff was necessary to complete tasks. He noted that a mandate had been established to maintain the Civil Service at a particular size, and managers should have adhered to the mandate as much as possible. He also stated that there may have been situations where managers felt that it was not possible to maintain the desired level of operations and productivity with the number of staff and so they would seek to augment the amount of staffing. He suggested that, since it stated that the overall size of the Public Service was not to grow, staff could be re-assigned to accommodate Departments. 1375. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the MOF had been expected to attend the job fair along with private sector companies with a view towards giving favourable consideration towards the 490 people that were registered and was interested in securing employment. 1376. The FS stated that the Human Resources Manager for the MOF or the DFS would have been in attendance at the job fair. He further stated that the intent for the Government of the Virgin Islands to increase its size was a policy issue. He relayed his advocacy for the hiring of college graduates or persons in the Virgin Islands who were unemployed.
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1377. The Premier stated that, any time a Department came before the SFC, there generally were requests made by some Departments for an increase in staff and, to a large extent, these requests were justified. He also stated that there were times when requests were reviewed for the positions within the Departments of Government, and the possibility existed that there may have been a necessity for staff in one area but were overstaffed in another. He added that this may have been a reason why the former Government instituted a review of staffing. He further stated that it should have helped us to look at staffing in various Government departments and determined a way forward. He noted that, in times of severity, the Government was trying to lessen the growth of the Public Service. Additionally, he noted that the Government was trying to find ways to increase the amount of commercial activity within the private sector, so that that sector could have acquired the majority of the un-employed persons. 1378. The Member for the Second District stated that he had noticed that there were ten (10) non-established posts which included Clerical Trainees and Finance Cadets. He then queried the reason for those posts being non- established. 1379. The FS stated that he was unable to effectively answer the question with any level of authority noting that it was a human resources matter. He further stated that those posts were considered to be the first step towards obtaining a permanent role in the MOF. The posts were basically used for college graduates. 1380. The Member for the Second District queried how long a person needs to be employed in a non-established post before obtaining a permanent post. The FS stated that it depended on the ability of the person in the post. He further noted that some persons moved faster than others. 1381. The Member for the Second District enquired whether a person could have been in such a post for ten (10) or more years. The FS stated that it was highly unlikely for a person to be in such a post for such a long period of time.
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1382. The Member for the Third District stated that he understood that the hiring of staff in the Public Service was under review. He also stated that he understood that there was a fifty percent (50%) cut in increments for the employees of the Public Service, and wondered which period of increments would be cut. The FS stated that the increment cut would be effective when the budget came into effect. 1383. The Member for the Third District enquired whether that was 2012 to which the FS confirmed in the affirmative. 1384. The Chairman thanked the panel for appearing before the SFC and answering the questions and concerns raised by the Members.

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HEAD 270 Present:

CUSTOMS

Mr. Neil Smith Mr. Wade Smith Mr. Leslie Lettsome Mr. Clinton Romney Mr. Shawn Newton

Financial Secretary, Ministry of Finance (FS) Commissioner of Customs (COC) Deputy Commissioner of Customs (DCOC) Assistant Commissioner of Customs (AsstCOC) Accounts Officer II (AcctOII)

1385. The Chairman thanked the panel for attending the deliberations, and requested that they state their names and positions for the record. 1386. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired what were the achievements and difficulties for the Department for 2011. 1387. The COC stated that 2011 was a challenging year for the Department. He stated that the Department attained its revenue goal and expenditures were reduced significantly. He stated that there was continued development of the Customs Automated Processing System (CAPS) and there were plans to initiate use of the harmonised system by the middle of February and also to implement the use of CAPS trade and declaration side of it. He also stated that, on the enforcement issue, there were reduced fines and increased compliance by customers. He further stated that the Department had reduced the amount of claims for overtime and has implemented an Administrator on Call System, where administrators would be on call for emergency cases. He additionally stated that these posts would cater to any overtime situations would reduce the level of overtime claims within the Department. The COC further stated that in-house training was implemented to reduce training expenditures. He

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also stated that junior officers basic training in the Virgin Islands and officers from the Cayman Islands were also in attendance at these training sessions. 1388. The DCOC stated that middle management training was also carried out in May of 2011 whereby all middle management staff along with senior officers was trained inhouse. He also stated that training was carried out by a retired management officer from the United Kingdom in collaboration with the CCLEC which is a known sector for conducting training regionally and works in collaboration with the World Customs Organisation. 1389. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the meaning of CCLEC. The COC stated that the meaning of CCLEC means the Caribbean Customs Law Enforcement Council. 1390. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked what CAPS stands was. 1391. The AsstCOC stated that CAPS is an acronym for Customs Automated Processing System. He stated that there were two aspects to CAPS which were the passenger and trader. He added that the passenger aspect had already been implemented whereby passengers returning to the Virgin Islands from shopping abroad, whether by air port or sea port would submit their declaration cards to the Customs Officer and the information would be inputted into the system. He further stated that there was a trader aspect of CAPS whereby importers were asked to make declarations electronically. Standard files were kept but the Department was steering towards evolving into a fully, electronic system whereby the business and importers could submit electronic entries into the system and get a response with respect to their documents being processed, and be able to collect their goods. He added that it was the hope of the Department that CAPS would be fully operational by the end of 2012. He also stated that there were plans on introducing the fully operational CAPS but there were still some issues that needed to be sorted out. He further stated that legislation was necessary in order to use the trader side of CAPS, legislation namely
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the Customs Management and Duties Act, 2010 has been enacted and provisions were being made to have it fully operational during the latter part of 2012. 1392. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that he was aware that CAPS had been around for quite some time. He enquired what the difficulties were which prevented CAPS from being implemented fully. 1393. The COC stated that the major challenge was legislation which was passed in August of 2010. He further stated that the legislation enabled CAPS to be utilised using the harmonised system which it was designed for. 1394. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired for the record what the harmonised system was. The COC stated that the harmonised system was the

international commodity coding scheme that was utilised for the classification of goods. He further stated that any goods which entered or left any country carried an international commodity code. The code was universal up to the 6th digit and the 7th and 8th were country specific. 1395. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired whether the commodity code was the same as the barcode that was present on goods. The COC stated that the code was different to the barcode. He further stated that with the utilisation of this harmonised system, it would have been easier to have goods classified with an existing code which are attached at importation. 1396. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the Government wanted to implement a system within the next 24 months where importers would have been required to pay on the FOB value. He then asked the COC what is the definition of FOB value. The DCOC stated that FOB meant freight on board. He further stated that it was the initial charge of the goods and the shipping charge to get it to the vessel or boat. 1397. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired if inland freight is included. He further asked how is the FOB value calculated for an item that may be !"#$%''*%&'%"#$%

shipped from Chicago by train to a shipping port in Miami. The DCOC stated that, in this instance, the FOB value would be all shipping costs which included inland freight. 1398. The Member for the First District enquired whether customers presently paid duty based on the total cost of the product and freight charges which was non-inclusive of the insurance value. The DCOC stated that legislation had to be amended to enable the new initiative. 1399. The Member for the First District enquired whether the initiative for February 1, 2012 was postponed. The FS stated that, to date if customers imported goods, the new initiative would not be effective since legislation had yet to be amended. However, the policy which would have been in effect from February 1, 2012 would ensure that persons who were importing goods and pay duty on the full value of the CIF which included insurance would be refunded. He further stated that it was merely an administrative matter, and the COC had the power to grant refunds to such customers. 1400. The Member for the First District enquired whether the COC had the power to grant a customer a refund on duty paid on goods even though the process was not passed legislatively. He further stated that in principle he was in support of the initiative. The FS stated that the COC would not grant refunds immediately; however, the policy was in effect as of 1st February, 2012 and, as such, the necessary administrative steps would be taken upon the passing of the legislation. 1401. Since this policy was to be retroactive to 1st February, 2012, The Member for the First District enquired whether it would be reflected in the legislation. The FS stated that it would have to be taken care of legislatively. 1402. The Member for the First District enquired whether customers who paid would be issued a refund from the Treasury Department. The FS stated that COC would be responsible with dealing with this matter administratively, once matters were submitted for refund.
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1403. The Member for the First District directed the same question to the COC. The COC stated that the documents would be prepared by the Customs Department and forwarded to the Ministry of Finance who would thereafter forward the documents to the Treasury Department who would then be responsible for issuing the cheques for the refund. Customs would not directly refund customers. 1404. The Member for the First District stated that, although in principle he was in support of the initiative, he was ensuring that the Government of the Virgin Islands was going through the proper procedures. He asked what amount of annual revenue would be lost by the Customs Department undertaking this initiative. The COC stated that it was estimated that between $2.7 million to $3 million would be lost annually. 1405. The Member for the First District enquired whether there was a new initiative within the Customs Department that would recover the amount that is being lost annually. The COC stated that, once the CAPS cargo declaration aspect was fully implemented and officers were relieved from clerical duty to be able to perform duties within their designated roles, there would be more efficient inspection and enforcement which would reduce the number of commercial fraud cases which should offset the loss of revenue that was lost by the implementation of this policy. 1406. The Member for the First District queried whether the COC meant that there would be less potential for commercial fraud to which the COC confirmed. 1407. The Member for the First District questioned when the officers within the Customs Department would be relieved from clerical work to be able to carry out full cadet duties. The COC stated that he wanted to begin the full utilisation of the harmonised system in the beginning of February, 2012 and later in the month he wanted to be able to utilise CAPS on the trader side at Port Purcell. It was anticipated that, within the next two months, both systems would be fully operational. 1408. The Member for the First District referred to the policy that was to be implemented 1st February, 2012. He enquired whether the proposed policy was beneficial to all
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persons who imported goods into the country or was it beneficial to businesses that made a certain amount of money or would all persons be included to obtain a refund. He also enquired whether the proposed policy and amendment to the legislation were gauged towards businesses to boost the business industry and to encourage people to shop locally. 1409. The FS stated that it was important to understand the origin of the policy. He stated that it was difficult for merchants in the country to compete with merchants outside the jurisdiction. He stated that one of the main supporting reasons for this was due to cost of getting the goods to the Virgin Islands. He further stated that, in lieu of this, a situation was created where the costs of getting products both here and in other jurisdictions were equated so that businesses would be able to compete. He then stated that it should be noted that freight charges to the Virgin Islands was significantly more than in the US Virgin Islands and the policy sought to decrease the burden that was attached to the freight cost that was imbedded in the cost of goods in the Virgin Islands. Additionally, he stated that it allowed the merchants to be more competitive and, if the merchants within the Virgin Islands were more competitive, then the possibility to have the money circulate within the country would have been greater and the money would then circulate within the economy and by the virtue of that there would have been more economic activity and a higher GDP. 1410. The Member for the First District stated that the questions were geared to assist in the preparation process of the legislation so that if valuable, certain policies would have been implemented. Further he enquired if the initiative was for everyone or businesses that specified how much business that was being conducted per year so that they may benefit from the initiative. He stated that it was great that the first phase of this initiative was being carried out and long term discussions were held in relation to the initiative. He also stated that if all businesses were able to import goods then the problem that should be cured would not have been because if merchants said for example that it was cheaper that they are only to pay the duty based on the costs of freight and the cost of the goods that would eliminate the merchant having to
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purchase goods from another local company. He also stated that he agreed that if the money was not circulated within the economy there would be major problems but the question was how the government was going to target this to enable businesses to directly benefit from this initiative and in addition to ensure that these savings were passed on to the customers. 1411. The FS stated that the details would be dealt with in the amendment to the legislation and also administratively and there were procedures to be put in place. He also stated that he understood that the businesses would have to be incentivized to become more competitive. 1412. The Member for the First District stated that, in the past when there was a problem with the high cost of steel, customers bought steel anywhere once they were getting the best deal. He also stated that businesses, although they were importing steel at a lower price, through an initiative by the then administration, some businesses refused to drop the cost of the steel. He enquired whether there was a time frame that would be given to businesses to aid them in getting rid of their current stock. 1413. The Member for the Second District stated that, from his understanding the Customs Department is the fourth largest Department, and enquired whether the Department had met its revenue projection for 2011. 1414. The COC stated that the Department had a shortfall of about $5.5 million. 1415. The Member for the Second District stated that he observed that the projection for 2011 had been estimated at $ 35.3 million and, in 2012, the projection decreased to an estimate of $ 29.6 million. He also stated that he thought that the projection for 2012 was based on a shortfall from the previous year. He enquired whether the $2 to $3 million that would have come from revenue from the new Customs Amendment Act that was introduced by Government was taken into account or would that amount be further deducted from the projected $29 million for 2012.

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1416. The COC stated that the projection that the Department had for 2012 was $29 million which, when factored in, the new policy should be $27 million or $6.5 million. 1417. The Member for the Second District enquired whether that amount should be factored in the revenue. 1418. The Premier stated that the whole point in the differed charges was that when the duty on the freight was to be able to increase commercial activity in the country and as a result of this it was expected to see more revenue flowing in through the Customs Department and also circulated in the country. He also stated that it could not be said, although there was not a definite figure, revenue would have been down by $2 million. An increase was expected in the commercial activity as a result of this exercise. 1419. The Member for the Second District enquired whether more activity was being generated by lowering the cost to make up the shortfall and also whether the projection of $29 million was not definite. The Premier confirmed that this was the case as previously stated. 1420. The COC stated that the estimates that the Department had with respect to the duty on the FOB the calculation was based on importation for everyone; now he learned that the policy would be for business. The anticipated loss of $3million would be significantly lowered if the policy only applied to the businesses probably not even $1 million dollars but the calculation was based on importation for everyone. Subhead 61510 Office Rent 1421. The Member for the Second District noted that the explanation for Subhead 61510 was deleted from the explanatory notes. The FS stated that this was an error as his copy has the explanation. He also stated that this subhead was for office accommodation.

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1422. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried which premises were being rented. The FS stated that the building that the Customs Headquarters was using was not the property of the Government of the Virgin Islands. 1423. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired who the building was for. The FS stated that the premises belonged to Ms. Gretel Stoutt. 1424. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired when the next renewal date for the lease was or the date of the rent review. The COC stated that the lease expired in 2011 so it was newly renewed for an additional 3 years. 1425. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the rent was increased after the expiration. The COC stated that the rent remained the same. 1426. The Member for the Third District enquired why the Department of Customs still handled rent payment as he understood that the policy was that all rental properties were handled by the Deputy Governors Office. The FS stated that perhaps that was correct but he understood that the Deputy Governors Office negotiated the terms of the leases but the funds would be taken out of the vote for the requisite Ministry and Department. 1427. The Member for the Third District stated that, when the Deputy Governors Office was before the SFC Committee, they had estimated some millions and escalating which was allotted to rent payments and they were in the process of having the responsibility for all rent and leases transferred to their department which he understood from the policy. 1428. The FS stated that he did not dispute that was to be the case; however, that was not presently happening. 1429. The Member for the Third District stated that, from the time the policy was instituted, that was supposed to be happening in no uncertain terms.

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1430. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired what year the policy was instituted. 1431. The Member for the Third District stated that it was approximately between 2008 and 2009. 1432. The Premier enquired whether the policy was fully implemented in 2010 and 2011. 1433. The Member for the Third District stated that it became a policy and was to take effect from that time forward and the DGO would pick up all the renewals along with any new negotiations that were to take place for anyone who required office space outside the Central Administration Complex. He further stated that the monies in this regard would have been allotted to the DGO and would grow as they took on additional responsibilities for the rents and leases. He also stated that persons who had building in the Road Town area had various government departments renting spaces and all the terms of leases and their rates were different. It was decided that this would be standardised and the DGO would have the responsibility, so it was surprising to hear that the Customs Department had recently entered into a new lease. 1434. The Member for the Fifth District enquired whether the policy had been implemented pending another stipulation. 1435. The Member for the Third District stated that there was nothing pending other than the expiration of the lease that was held by the various Departments. He further stated that, once the lease had expired, the DGO would take over negotiations on behalf of the Department. 1436. The FS stated that currently what had been happening was that even if the payments were not made by the DGO they would be in control of the lease and be involved in the negotiations which included rates etc. and once signed the department would be responsible for payment. He further stated that the segregated approach that was existent before was no more as the DGO would deal with the actual lease the
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intention being to have all leases dealt with in one place the DGO being the one actually administering. 1437. The Premier stated that the DGO would handle all negotiations with respect to all leases. He enquired whether the policy provided for this or would the DGO be responsible for payments as well as this would have taken care of one aspect where not everyone would be able to negotiate leases. 1438. The Member for the Third District stated that it was his understanding that the DGO would be responsible for all leased properties which would include negotiations and payments. 1439. The Premier stated that he knows that the DGO was responsible for all leases which included negotiations but only to that point. 1440. The Member for the Third District stated that he understood payments as well. 1441. The Premier stated that this policy was to be reviewed the essential thing being that once the DGO was responsible for lease negotiation including the terms of the contract, hence the quantum will remain the same as if the payments were made by Departments. 1442. The Member for the Third District stated that the Public Service was very ticklish and it was either going to be one way or no way. If one person were to take care of negotiations in January and another person was paying, down the line somewhere in August, that person would find a way to be able to ask the landlord to throw in something over and above what was negotiated, thus committing the government, which in the end will be paid. 1443. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked for clarification on the statement made by The Member for the Third District when it was stated that landlords can throw in something over and above in the lease.

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1444. The Member for the Third District stated that to clarify the issue when Departments renegotiate leases upon expiration they may have found a storage space within the building that the department is using and they were paying for it and were able to negotiate that to be paid from the allotted funds. 1445. The Premier stated that if the clear policy was that the DGO managed the leases and rental accommodations then he was of the view that they would not be able to partake in further negotiations and there were cases where the DGO was indeed the responsible body for leasing and accommodations. He further stated that this should have not been made an issue and that the issue of combining the responsibilities under the DGO would be looked at. 1446. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired whether the reason for the Government to centralise the handling of leases was to save money since it was stated that the DGO had person with skills to negotiate rents terms and conditions etc. which was more effective than any other Department within Government as that is what he understood. He further enquired whether all the necessary skills were within the DGO. 1447. The Member for the Third District stated that Government needed the skill set to negotiate in a way that the private sector did with respect to these leases and it would not have been expedient for every Department to find those skill sets and have them, so therefore the task was centralised whereby the most neutral place that would have been able to handle this task was the DGO. 1448. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired whether the skill set would have then been developed in the DGO. 1449. The Member for the Third District agreed that this was the intention and stated that whether the DGO would have hired a realty agency to do it on their behalf or they would develop their staff employees so that they would be able to handle this task.

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1450. The Member for the First District stated that to give the matter some background there was an increase of cases where Department officials were giving out letters of intent for rental of building for rent and it was unknown by MoF until during the budget process. As a result, controls were put in place in order to monitor the process as well as have the process centralised. 1451. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that the cost for electricity is something that he is concerned about and additionally on the mind of the Government supports energy efficiency. He enquired whether the department made any attempts to encourage energy efficiency by utilising energy efficient bulbs, paying attention to the use of the air condition units and how often they were turned on etc. 1452. The COC stated that the Department made attempts to enhance energy efficiency. He further stated that all air condition units and lights were turned off at the end of each day but bulbs were yet to be replaced with energy efficient bulbs. 1453. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that he would like to encourage the department to install more efficient lighting in an effort to reduce the high cost of electricity. He further stated that the department should consider compact or fluorescent or LEDs bulbs and fixtures. The COC agreed that this would be done. Subhead 62775 Customs Declaration Data System 1454. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether there was an annual fee for the Customs Declaration Data System to operate. The AsstCOC stated that there were annual fees that were associated with the operation of the Customs Declaration Data System. 1455. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the fees were paid to companies locally or overseas. The AsstCOC stated that the companies were situated overseas.

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1456. Territorial Member Archibald Christian enquired where specifically the company was located. The AsstCOC stated that fees were paid through IBM Barbados who was the collecting office. Subhead 60300 Authorized Staff 1457. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether there was an Accounts Officer I post within the department. The DCOC stated that there was an Accounts Officer I post within the department. 1458. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the post was vacant or filled. The DCOC stated that the post was filled. 1459. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired how many vacant posts there were within the department at present. The COC stated there were currently approximately 5 posts within the Department that were vacant. 1460. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the COC was interested in having the posts filled. The COC stated that the Department was expected to fill them within the next couple weeks especially as the Department was expected to reopen the Gun Creek port of entry. 1461. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired what types of posts were available. The COC stated that the posts were Customs Officer Trainee positions. 1462. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that he wanted to advise of the existence of the Youth Unemployment Register. He enquired whether the COC was aware of the initiative. The COC stated that he was aware of this initiative. 1463. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that on Thursday at 9:00 a.m. at the Multi-Purpose Sports Complex the Ministry of Education and Culture were introducing the persons who went through the Work Readiness Programme and the department had asked potential employers to show up and a personal invitation was extended to the Department of Customs to attend. The COC thanked the Minister for
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Education and Culture for the invitation and asked that he again confirmed the time and place of the event. 1464. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that the event would take place at 9:00 a.m. at the Multi-Purpose Sports Complex and would have taken the liberty to confirm the Department of Customs as having 5 vacancies as those potential employers would have to be recognized. He sought the permission of the COC to proceed and to also confirm the Department attendance to the event to grant the persons an interview for the vacant posts. The COC gave his consent. Subhead 61400 Repairs and Maintenance 1465. The Member for the Sixth District asked that the subhead be broken down as the explanation given was general given the amount of money that was allotted. The COC stated that the money allotted to the Subhead was for maintenance of all vehicles and all the launches for the Customs Department which included parts and fuel. 1466. The Member for the Sixth District enquired how may launches there were. The COC stated that there were 3 launches at the moment. 1467. The Member for the Sixth District enquired whether that number included the launches for the sister islands. The COC stated that the figure didnt include the sister islands as all launches were based in Tortola. 1468. The Member for the Sixth District enquired whether the vehicles facilitated an anticipated increase in the number of patrols. The COC stated that the Department had other vehicles situated on the sister islands. He further stated that patrols would have been done in the vehicles as well as maritime patrols in conjunction with the Royal Virgin Islands Police Marine Unit and international colleagues. 1469. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the Department is satisfied with their current equipment which would enable them to carry out their functions effectively. The COC stated that the Department was comfortable with the !"#$%'("%&'%"#$%

marine unit however he wanted to have some of the vehicles within the feet that were between 10-12 years old replaced. 1470. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired how many vehicles fell in the age range that would have to be replaced. The COC stated that 4 vehicles fell in that age range and requested that they be replaced. 1471. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the department had an idea of where they would source the vehicles from. The COC stated that the Department had no source at that time due to limited resources within the budget allocated but if the FS can spare some he was sure that he would do so. 1472. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that some Department seemed to had a preference with respect to the brand of vehicles and then enquired what was Customs preference. The COC stated that the best vehicle would be a Toyota, but because of pricing a Mitsubishi would be preferred. Those vehicles were the ones that were between 10-12 years old and had passed the test of time. 1473. The Member for the Third District stated that there was an amount of money that was allocated to law enforcement from the IPOC fund. He further enquired whether the Department of Customs had benefited from it. The COC stated that the Department had not received any of the IPOC fund money to his knowledge. 1474. The FS stated that the Customs Department had not previously received any funding from IPOC but in the 2012 budget they are asking that some funds be put aside for the department. 1475. The Member for the Third District enquired what the policy was regarding leave for public servants. The FS stated that there was a Cabinet directive which stated that all leave must be taken by the end of 2013 or that leave will be forfeited. He further stated that there were many public officers who were faced with the situation of excessive leave and were unable to take such leave so administratively the situation still stood for eliminating leave before the ending period or it will be forfeited. !"#$%'#$%&'%"#$%

1476. The Member for the Third District enquired who was responsible for ensuring that officers take leave. The FS stated that the initial responsibility would have lied on the officer themselves and further to that it would rely and those that officers report to. 1477. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired what the total liability was of the Government of the Virgin Islands with regards to leave. The FS stated that the figure was unavailable at that time but confirmed that it was a high amount. 1478. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired how many cases were there in respect of leave compensation. The FS stated that there were numerous cases and the actual numbers would have to be gathered from the Department of Human Resources. 1479. The Member for the Second District enquired how many public officers received compensation for leave. The FS stated that there were a few cases but that information would be divulged with the information that was requested from the Department of Human Resources. 1480. The Member for the Second District enquired if the names of the individuals were known. The FS stated that the information was given at the last SFC meeting of 2011 up to that date. 1481. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired what criteria determined who was eligible for compensation for leave. The FS stated that although he does not determine who is eligible for compensation for leave he answered the question of whether the liquidity exists. He further stated that decision would be made between the DGO and the Department of Human Resources and for the most part would depend and could be a detriment to the organisation should that individual leave at that point for an extended period of time. He also stated that compensation would not be paid but leave was to be managed to minimise the amount of days so that the officers can leave for shorter periods.

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1482. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired how many officers under the MoF had over 50 vacation days. The FS stated that most of the Department Heads were part of the collective. He further stated that that specific number was not available at that time, but there were a few persons. 1483. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired what were some of the reasons that prevented officers from going on leave and why so many officers had accumulated so much leave. 1484. The FS stated that in his opinion too much leave was offered annually and also in most cases most individuals are caught up in one initiative to the other trying to keep up with mandates that were set forth by the department. He also stated that in most cases that was the reason persons may have not been in place to carry on functions while persons were on leave for an extended period of time. 1485. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether all will be well after 2013. The FS stated that in his opinion he doesnt think that all will be well for example in the case of the Department of Customs, there were reasons that were indicated by the COC why there was an accumulation of leave by officers in that department. He also stated that in many cases if there were absences of a couple officers there would be changes in performance as productivity was not homogeneous in many cases with respect to heads of department. He further stated that some persons didnt have a choice and those departments that were in those cases 99% of the time were that way because they didnt want to leave in fear of coming back to double the amount of work. 1486. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that he worked in the private sector for majority of his career and can assure that leave accumulation was not a problem and this was not dependent on size. He also stated that the effort that was made to reduce the amount of leave time was a good one because at some point it had to be brought under control especially where departments consists of fifty or more staff. He
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further stated that the Head of Department should be able to leave on vacation while the Deputy took over and he is trying to understand why there is such a problem. 1487. The COC stated that from his vantage point he took a couple months off last year and it was extremely difficult to use that large amount of days especially when there is extreme short staffing and management is always called upon to fill in shifts which members should appreciate for example about two Saturdays ago where he was clearing a vessel until after three in the morning. He further stated that in that case he should be given compensatory time but had he have made the request to do so his accumulated leave would be twice the amount that it was currently. 1488. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian commended the COC for his efforts in assisting his staff members but enquired where other Customs Officers were at that time. 1489. The COC stated that one Customs Officer was with him at that time but there has been a request to reduce the amount of overtime hours by officers. He also stated that in an effort to adhere to this request a system namely Administrator on Call was developed to aid in this effort. He further stated that Administrator on Call was where managers would work for overtime matter which would reduce the amount of overtime requests. 1490. The Member for the Third District enquired who made the decision to send a senior officer on leave. He further enquired whether it was done by the person who the senior officer reports to and also if it is done outside the knowledge of the sitting government, namely the Premier or the Minister for the subject. 1491. The FS stated that the matter of leave was an administrative matter and should not be dealt with at a level above that and as such dealt with between the DGO and the Department of Human Resources with the involvement of the MoF and the PSMDGO or the FS.

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1492. The Member for the Third District stated that he understood that the DGO, Department of Human Resources and the MoF were the ones who were responsible for enacting that decision. He then enquired whether this can happen without getting the blessing of the sitting Government, namely the Premier or the Minister for the subject. 1493. The FS stated that it can be done and in many cases it has been done. He further stated that this was done in this case. 1494. The Member for the Third District stated that he would imagine that a Minister who had a certain responsibility over departments would know and have to sanction the leave of a Head of Department because Ministers tend to call on these persons quite regularly as they advise the Minister with respect to certain issues. 1495. The FS stated that if a Department were properly run and staffed the Minister would call on the Head of Department at that particular time. If he called the sitting head and found that person was not there then he would speak to the person who ran the department at that time. He further stated that they tried not to have departments wrapped up in one person as there should be a managerial structure that was

supposed to function and Minister were not to be bothered with that function as matter were being completed. 1496. The Member for the Third District enquired whether it was safe for him to state that the Minister for Finance didnt know the COC was placed on leave. The FS stated that in this case it is safe to say that this matter was handled by the FS, DGO and the Department of Human Resources. 1497. The Member for the Third District asked if the Minister for Finance knew the COC was going on leave. The FS stated that the Minister for Finance did not know or was not involved in the process. He further stated that Minister of Finance was not notified of this process and was unsure if he knew otherwise.

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1498. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the COC is back on the job until further notice. The FS stated that the Minister indicated that he would like the COC to be put back on the job and the request was honoured. 1499. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the new letter to the COC had a date on it which specified a date for leave. The FS stated that there was no date set for the COCs leave. 1500. The Member for the Second District enquired what the average leave time given to Permanent Secretaries and Heads of Department. The FS stated that Permanent Secretaries and Heads of Department got 36 days per year. 1501. The Member for the Second District stated that it is easy to observe that if leave is not taken annually a large amount could be accumulated over a short spanned of time. 1502. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that leave is meant to be taken. Thirty six days vacation equates to seven working weeks and where there are holidays that would be two working months. He further stated that, in his view persons should be paid decent salaries to reduce the amount of leave time granted. 1503. The Member for the Second District enquired whether officers received salaries in lieu of time off. The FS stated that there the information was not available at that time but would be produced for this years budget. 1504. The Premier stated that the policy with respect to leave for public servant and the manner in which it is taken and especially the policy that was introduced the use it or lose it policy would need to be reviewed in consideration of the needs within the government departments. He also stated that it was clear that it needed to be more collaboration for which persons between the public service and the Government and when heads of department go on leave. He further stated that it was the norm for the Customs Department that there was a structure which allowed the Head of Department to go on leave and the deputy would act in his absence so that work of the department would continue seamlessly and the COC was on leave in November and !"#$%'##%&'%"#$%

December and he was unaware when he was on leave then but the work of the department continued but clearly there is a need for greater collaboration which is expected to happen. 1505. The Chairman thanked the panel for coming and for answering the questions and concerns raised by the Members.

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HEAD 290 Present:

INLAND REVENUE

Mr. Neil Smith Mrs. Sylvia Moses

Financial Secretary, Ministry of Finance (FS) Commissioner of Inland Revenue, Inland Revenue Department (CIR)

Mr. Orris Thomas

Deputy Commissioner of Inland Revenue, Inland Revenue Department (DCIR)

Mrs. Maria Thomas

Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Finance (FPOMOF)

1506. The Chairman welcomed the Commissioner of Inland Revenue (CIR) and the Deputy Commissioner of Inland Revenue (DCIR) to the proceedings, and asked that they state their names and positions for the record and they complied. The Chairman invited the CIR to proceed with her presentation to defend the Departments budget. 1507. The CIR stated that the Department of Inland Revenue (DIR) continued to be plagued with many challenges and a lack of human resources. She shared that the Department was expected to do the insurmountable with minimal and if the department was to serve the Government and the people, in spite of the cost cutting measures implemented, they needed assistance in the form of additional human resources. 1508. The DCIR added to the CIRs presentation and informed that the department was still using a first generation database called SIGTAS which had been in use since 2003 and they sought funds for quite a number of years to upgrade the database since the Virgin Islands was one of the last Caribbean countries still using the system. He advised that they soon would not be able to access support services for it. The DCIR stated that it was also their hope that in addition to the human resources, that the department would be able to receive funds to upgrade the system. !"#$%'#*%&'%"#$%

1509. The Chairman then invited the Members to pose their questions to the panel. 1510. The Minister for Health and Social Development requested the CIR and DCIR to provide a comprehensive report of their achievements in 2011 along with any other challenges faced, apart from the lack of human resources and the need to upgrade the database. 1511. The CIR reported that in spite of the economic climate, they were able to over-collect since they were budgeted to collect $48.9 million dollars, but instead collected $51.9 million dollars, which was a six percent increase of the estimated collections. She explained that the majority had been collected through hotel accommodation tax, property tax and payroll tax, although they fell by three percent in the stamp duty. 1512. The CIR shared that, in spite of the limited staff, they were able to process 60 Tax Information Exchange Agreements (TIEAs) within the required time frames, and they had forged many sound relationships with many registered agencies which had been compliant and cooperative in supplying the requisite information. 1513. In terms of challenges, the CIR said that the current Stamp Act was quite old so at times it was difficult to fit certain transactions into the provisions that were there. She informed that the Stamp Act needed significant revisions and amendments, perhaps even to be repealed and replaced. 1514. The CIR informed that they had made a request for several fees to be updated and the then Cabinet had approved of the revised fees, but it was simply for the fees to come before the House for final approval. She advised that the Cabinet Paper was probably with the MoF or the AGC. The CIR also informed that recommendations were made for some increases to the property tax and a few other minor fees. 1515. The CIR reiterated that there was still quite a bit of work generated for the department in spite of the economic downturn and even though they were functioning, with additional manpower, even more could be done. The Minister for Health and Social Development clarified that property tax was the combination of land and house tax. !"#$%'#+%&'%"#$%

The CIR stated that he was correct. The Minister queried which aspect of the taxes would be affected by the proposed increases. 1516. The CIR informed that the Virgin Islands were one of the last Caribbean countries to assess property taxes on notional rental value and the majority of countries had progressed to assessments based on market value. She further informed that some used semi market value or set the rates at such that they were not high. The CIR stated that at the request of the MoF, the DIR was also proposing that the Virgin Islands move to assessments based on market value, so it would not just be on the land or house aspects, but market value on the entire property. 1517. The Member for the Sixth District queried the amount of the proposed percentage. The CIR replied that based on discussions between the DIR and the MoF, it was proposed to be 1 percent at market value. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired whether the new property tax for a million dollar property would then be $15,000. The CIR explained that the proposal was based on the notion that once the paper reached the House, Members would most likely drop the proposed percent to % instead of the 1%. 1518. The FS added that the MoF considered adjusting the system in such a way that the tax burden was not an immediate increase, but over time it would gradually increase. He advised that there needed to be a balance between the market rate and the current rental rate in use. He further advised that even a one percent increase was considerably more than what was being paid, and what was needed was a change in the method of valuation, but maintains the tax burden where it currently stood. 1519. The Minister for Health and Social Development commented that most local persons owned million dollar properties and the FS agreed. The Minister noted that even if the rate dropped to half a percent, there was still a $2,500.00 tax that could be collected. He added that the country could move to the market value method, but the percentage would have to be scrutinised. The CIR agreed and illustrated with the case of Antigua,
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who used semi market value; with half the market value and half a percent as their property tax. 1520. The CIR stated that the Government had used the current system of notional value for years and it was time to seriously consider upgrading to another more modern method of property tax assessments, whether it was market value, or semi market value with half a percentage. 1521. The Member for the Eighth District enquired whether assessments were conducted regarding the potential revenue that would be garnered from the proposed increase. The CIR replied that at the time they were unable to conduct any assessments since the exercise had been time sensitive. She added that any potential revenue to be generated would be more significant than what was currently being collected. The Member then enquired whether the DIR had any records of the values of the properties that currently paid property taxes. The CIR responded that they did not. 1522. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the FS had an update on the figures for revenue since the CIR had stated that the DIR had collected $51.9 million; the FS offered to go through each listing and reminded the Members that the budget had been prepared in advance. The Member requested the final figure which the FS informed was $51.9 million. The Member for the Third District noted that it was in excess of ten million. The FS then offered to provide a copy of the report since it had been categorized differently in the budget. The Member asked that, in light of the $51.9 million, whether the 2012 estimates would remain at $48 million. The FS replied that it was likely, but the DIR would have to go through the projection exercise again before the budget was printed. 1523. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the CIR had completed her comprehensive report on the DIR and requested the number of vacant posts in the office. The CIR responded that there were six vacant posts, but while they were vacant, officers were being held against them. The Minister for Health and Social Development sought clarification on the vacancies.
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1524. The CIR responded that there were two Assistant Commissioners positions. The Minister enquired whether there were persons in the posts and whether they were the appropriate persons. The CIR replied yes. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the persons were located in the DIR or whether they were located elsewhere in the public service. The CIR explained that one was on job rotation at the IFC and the others were physically located in the department. The Member disputed that the posts were in fact empty since persons were being held against them. The CIR reiterated that the posts were vacant and continued to list the positions which were a Tax Inspector post, and a Senior Tax Inspector post. The Minister for Health and Social Development clarified that persons were in fact functioning in the posts. 1525. The CIR explained that the posts needed to be regularized and stated that over the last four years if an officer fell ill and a substitute was requested, even when the officer returned to work, the DIR requested to keep the substitutes as well since there was still worked to be done. The CIR said that that was the method that had been used to fill the positions and informed that the Assistant Commissioner post had been repeatedly advertised, but the applicants were not the suitable candidates since the ideal candidate should have an accounting and auditing background. She noted that the applicants did not have those particular skills base and as such, they had been unable to fill the positions for a quite a while. 1526. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired whether the staff complement would be 37 + 6 instead. The CIR responded that that was correct and that the DIR needed the right type of staff for the positions. The FS advised that it was no longer enough for employees to be educated, but they also needed to be trained and with the ability to get the work done. He noted that it was a developing trend that was occurring where persons were being paid at a particular level, but the quality of work and output was at another level.

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1527. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired whether someone was fulfilling the functions of Assistant Commissioner, although they were not duly qualified and the post was vacant. The CIR explained that the functions attached to the post were not really being fulfilled, but that the work had been assigned to other positions. The Minister expressed the concern with the use of the word appropriate and advised that the Government did not want to make persons feel inadequate as they performed the duties assigned. The Member for the Third District clarified that the posts were vacant and the Minister for Education and Culture stated that he wanted to ensure that the record reflected that the post was vacant as compared to the persons attached to the post were inappropriate. The CIR expressed that those were not the sentiments she shared. 1528. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired about the quality of the revenue collection if the six persons were recruited for the department. The CIR informed that it would significantly affect the collections since the collections team was currently stretched to the limit and there were a number of high-end court cases that the DIR was unable to pay close attention to, with the additional staff they would be able to do so. 1529. The Minister clarified whether it would mean another $5,000,000.00 in revenue. The CIR confirmed that it would. The Member for the Eighth District queried the estimated amount of outstanding dollar amount for the revenue that was not collected. The CIR responded that it was $8,000,000.00. The FS noted that that was what the MoF was aware of. The Member for the Third District enquired about the proper term for the outstanding monies. The CIR replied that it was tax arrears. 1530. The Member further queried whether it was based on a filed taxable income or based on the assessment of the DIR. The CIR replied that it was both and added that within the legislation the DIR was required and authorised to perform the task. She said that when the DIR conducted an assessment and issued a tax based on the assessment, it

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was the duty of the taxpayer to object and if there were no objections the tax was collectable. Subhead 61410 Maintenance and Hire 1531. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian referred to the 2011 report and funds of $600,000.00, as compared to the 2012 estimates for $162,000.00. He then enquired about the status of the SIGTAS system in 2011. The DCIR responded that they were trying to arrange with CRC Sogema, the provider of the database, to perform an upgrade which was estimated to cost almost $1,000,000.00, but they had been unable to finalise the plans to have it done in 2011 and in 2012, there were no funds to do so. 1532. The Territorial Member clarified that the money was budgeted for the project but had not been spent. The DCIR confirmed that that was correct. The Territorial Member enquired about the purpose of the funds in the subhead for the present year. The DCIR replied that the funds were for regular maintenance of the current system. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the assistance was provided locally or overseas. 1533. The DCIR replied that it was both, and when the overseas consultant was needed, the service was organised and the DIR billed. Territorial Member enquired whether it was a contractual arrangement or on a needs basis. The DCIR replied that it was presently on a needs basis, although they were currently trying to negotiate a service-based contract. He stated that once the particulars were finalised the document would be sent to the AGC and the other relevant bodies to be vetted as needed. 1534. The Member for the Eighth District referred to the presentation by the DCIR regarding the upgrade of the current database and enquired whether a thorough assessment was conducted, to determine whether the proposed upgrade of the current system was the best course of action for the Government, verses moving to a new system. The DCIR replied that in his estimation, the proposed new system was the best option for the Government.
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1535. The Member then enquired about the current system and whether it was designed for the DIR or whether it was an off the shelf system. The DCIR replied that it was a system that had been developed over time for the OECS regional tax authorities and some were still using it, while others had upgraded to other platforms. The Member for the Eighth District clarified that to upgrade the system would cost $1,000,000.00 and the DCIR replied that the figures were based on the last quotation received and a more current estimate might reflect a higher sum. The Member for the Eight District then enquired whether an upgrade to a new platform would still permit the DIR to modify the database as needed, in the event that a new tax system was decided upon. 1536. The DCIR replied that once the relevant technician who was familiar with the database was posted in the unit, then there should be no problems. He added that it had been done in the past, prior to the person being transferred to the DoIT, and even then, the officer had been able to make the adjustments as needed; however they were no longer with the Government. The DCIR explained that currently, there was no one on staff at the DIR or DoIT that was familiar with the database and could provide the support services necessary and as a result, they had to rely on overseas support from the developers of the database. 1537. The Member for the Eighth District said that he enquired because he wanted to ensure that the Government purchased a system that did not restrict them from making modifications. He added that he was aware that some proprietary systems, usually came with many restrictions and changes were very expensive to make and required long term service contracts with the providers. The Member also stated that Government should be careful how they enter into relationships with software vendors. The Member further stated, that extreme caution is needed, when investing in such systems. The DCIR reiterated that with the right technical resource person on staff, such restrictions would not be a problem. 1538. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian referred to the payroll review undertaken by the former administration and enquired about the outcome of the review. The FS
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responded that the work had been done, but they were unable to get everyone on the committee to come together to complete and make the necessary recommendations, and in that regard, the MoF had been delinquent. 1539. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether a report could be forthcoming. The FS replied that it would be, and should have been done months ago. Territorial Member referred to the offices need for human resources and enquired whether there was a particular area being targeted to assist with the department being able to fulfill its functions. The FS responded that there was a dire need for Accountants and Economists in the MoF and in the public service on a whole. He explained that to make Government a more effective and efficient machine, the DIR should have had some of the countrys brightest persons with the required technical backgrounds and experience stationed there. The FS further explained that because the CIR did not have the requisite personnel, the DIR was constantly outfoxed by the private sector. 1540. The Member for the Third District clarified whether it was that the private sector got the brighter persons to work or that the DIR was not calculating the figures correctly. The FS stated that it was not that they necessarily had the brighter persons, but because of the profitability factor, they would ensure that they had the right persons, with the right type of expertise and training to work on the particular matters for them. The Member explained that he meant that when the Government and the private sector competed human resources-wise for the same individuals, that the private sector got them instead. The FS replied that they did. 1541. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired whether the DIR had trained any individuals over the years whether through the public service or requesting scholarships in the field. The FS informed that in the MoF, any individual that indicated that they were interested in attaining a professional certification in accounting, the MoF assisted as much as possible. However, he added, the arrangement had not worked out thus far.
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1542. The Minister queried whether it was due to Government not practicing the type of accounting that persons were sent to study. The FS confirmed that it was a factor; however, the goal was to have them trained and then progress to the type of accounting that was needed. Territorial Member repeated his query regarding the required human resources necessary for the DIR to function and collect the outstanding revenues. The CIR responded that within the TIEA Unit, they needed someone with a legal background; for assessments and audit units they needed accountants and auditors; in the valuation unit, they needed someone with a background in property appraisals. 1543. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian then enquired about the acronym TIEA and the functions of the Unit. The CIR defined the acronym and explained that the unit was responsible for managing all of the EU and OCT initiatives including the implementation of the TIEAs with member parties. 1544. The Territorial Member queried whether the Unit collected revenue as well. The FS responded that no revenue was collected, but the Virgin Islands would develop a reputation. He informed that there was a Global Forum for Tax Exchange who were established by the G8 to establish international standards of tax information exchange, the FS added that the bodies felt that the existence of financial centres such as the Virgin Islands, Cayman and Bermuda to name a few, undermined their tax base. He explained that persons in the EU and the USA would not have to pay the same volume of taxes in the Virgin Islands, using a VI company, as compared to if they had registered in their home base, say France for example. 1545. The FS further explained that the authorities felt that taxes that ordinarily would have stayed in their countries to assist with things such as their social and military programmes, were no longer accessible. He shared that in an effort to repatriate those funds they established international standards where it was no longer possible for their citizens to hide in these jurisdictions. The FS said the authorities believed that once they knew where the citizens were, they could tax the citizens under their laws,
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and not the company. He concluded that it was a global net that if the authorities had a query on a particular citizen, once they sent a legitimate request and the Government would respond with the relevant information and there were no fishing expeditions. 1546. The FS stated that the TIEA Unit managed the requests and within a specified time frame as according to the agreements. 1547. The Minister for Health and Social Development sought clarification on the term fishing expedition. The FS clarified that it was an industry term mean not being sure whether something existed, but putting out a line to see whether it did, for example, putting out a bunch of requests and waiting to see what the response was. The Minister noted that in light of all the requests being received that the laws needed to be amended. 1548. The Member for the Fifth District enquired about the number of persons working in the TIEA Unit. The FS responded that there was one person with another on the way since there was an active recruitment process to strengthen the unit. The Member confirmed that the employees were BVIslanders. The FS confirmed that they were. The FS concluded by stating that MoF was ensuring that they were in compliance with international standards. 1549. The Member for the Third District queried the percentage of the companies that grossed $1,000,000.00 or less per annum, out of the $8,000,000.00 in arrears that was owed. The CIR replied that it was approximately half. The Member enquired whether she believed it to be payroll tax as compared to company tax. The CIR responded that the figures quoted for payroll tax were from 2005. The Member for the Third District affirmed that he understood and repeated his query. 1550. The CIR responded that it could not be company tax because such taxes did not exist in the Virgin Islands. The Member enquired whether companies that grossed over a certain amount per annum had to pay a tax. The DCIR explained that prior to the
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introduction of payroll tax in 2005, there was company tax and personal income tax but those rates had been zeroed out from 2005 onward, so there was tax on profits for companies. 1551. The Member for the Third District queried whether the companies filed a return at the end of the year. The DCIR responded that the companies filed a payroll tax return and with the returns they were also required to file financial statements so the DIR had a record of the statements. 1552. The Member for the Third District requested an explanation for the penalty fee of $50 that was charged for late filings. The DCIR responded that the payroll tax legislation mandates that submissions are made monthly and by the 21st of the following month to which the submission relates. For example, he explained, if you were making a submission for January, it should be in the office by February 21st, and failing that, one paid $50 or 5% on the tax that was due on the submission when it was filed. 1553. The Member stated that he had a problem with that particular system and had repeatedly expressed his concerns over the past four years and even when he was in the opposition. The Member for the Third District believed the penalty was a nuisance and stated that he also had a problem with persons being charged for certificates of good standing. 1554. The other Members enquired why The Member for the Third District had a problem with it. The Member replied that initially it started with the Government, but now had extended to the banking sector. He stated that Government required a certificate of good standing from Government and a simple phone call should have been able to sort the matter out since it was the same agency. The Member for the Third District reiterated that he had a problem with that particular process. 1555. The CIR stated that a simple telephone call would not be able to handle such matters especially when an officer had to field, sometimes 15 requests in a day. She then explained the process and noted that it included examining the contractor or
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individuals file and chart their progress from the last time an application was made; sometimes individuals had to be called back into the office for further questions on a payment. 1556. The Member interjected that that process was for an individual to obtain a good standing certificate. The Member for the Third District said that to know whether an individual is in good standing should require a simple phone call and once their standing has been attained, if it is not good then the individual would be told to sort out their arrears at the DIR in order to remedy their status. The Member suggested that once the taxes were paid, the only thing left for the DIR to do was issue a receipt and informs the individual that they were in good standing. The Member for the Third District stated that the $50 penalty was a policy that he believed needed to be discontinued. The Member then referred to the TIEA Unit and stated that while he appreciated the functions of the TIEA Unit and the role of the agreements, he was interested in hearing about the monitoring process and how it operated. 1557. The FS stated that when the requests were made, the unit made sure that they followed through with the provisions in the agreements, but there was nothing that needed to be monitored specifically. 1558. The Member for the Third District clarified that the TIEA Unit simply facilitated the requests that were made. The FS replied yes. The Member then queried the accuracy of the unit and the number of requests made as well as the types of requests that were filed. The CIR responded that the unit was quite active since they received requests from jurisdictions such as Australia, France, USA, Sweden and the UK. She explained that the requests entailed information such as beneficial ownership, financial records, in some cases financial statements, copies of the ads from the commercial registry. The CIR stated that from 2009 to present, 60 requests were received and processed. She added that the active countries were France, the USA, Sweden and now the Northern countries were on board as well since their agreements came into effect in 2010.
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1559. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the requests were made on companies or individuals. The CIR replied that they covered both. The Member enquired whether a country that had an agreement with the Virgin Islands, if they had reason to make a request on one of their citizens living in the Territory, would the DIR be the appropriate channels and would the DIR be going to the bank and divulging the required information. 1560. The CIR stated that certain criterion had to be met such as the persons citizenship to the requesting country, the country must have an open tax investigation on the person, they must have reason to believe that the relevant information on the person is based in the VI, and the requesting agency had to provide all the required details such as the name and age of the suspect along with major banking details. 1561. The Member for the Third District referred to the Withholding Tax policy where the suspect would either have to pay taxes to the Virgin Islands or in their home country. The CIR stated that that was another system altogether and the TIEA was different to the EU Savings Directive information. She explained that at a certain time of the year, the banks would submit information to the DIR and it would be sent to the country that the person is a citizen of. 1562. The Member for the Third District clarified that whether there was a TIEA in place or not, the information would still be sent. The CIR replied that information for the TIEA would only be sent if there was an existing arrangement with that country. She added that under the EU Saving Directive, the information is voluntarily submitted by the registered agents and under the EU Savings Directive the information would be sent to the specific country. The Member enquired whether it was mandatory. The CIR responded that it was. He clarified whether the information was requested or not. The CIR responded yes; the Member enquired if the person paid taxes in the Virgin Islands, whether DIR had to submit the information. The CIR and the FS responded that they did not.

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1563. The FS informed that the MoF was now moving to the system where a percentage of the funds held in the Virgin Islands were taxed. The Member for the Third District confirmed that the TIEAs were complex and were part of an investigation that was well advanced from the requesting agency. 1564. The Member for the Third District referred to his previous query about the vacancies in the DIR. He stated that he had counted two Assistant Commissioners and a Senior Tax Inspector and enquired about the remaining vacancies. The CIR confirmed that there was only one tax inspector. The Chairman explained that the Member was trying to ascertain the number of vacancies in the Department and in what areas. 1565. The Member for the Third District referred to the 2012 budget with the operating expense of $1,600,300.00 and noted that it was significantly lower than in 2011 of $2,120,500.00, with a $520,200.00 difference. The CIR responded that was due to the reduction in the amount for the Maintenance and Hire Subhead since they would no longer be able to upgrade the SIGTAS database as planned. She invited the DCIR to repeat his presentation on the SIGTAS database and he complied. 1566. The Member for the Third District clarified whether the $1,000,000.00 would have been used in one year or over a period of time. The DCIR responded that based on how the budget cycle was allotted, the monies would have been spread more than over a 12 month period. The Member then enquired whether the DIR had uploaded its form documents online as yet so persons could file their taxes etc. The CIR responded that they had placed the payroll tax form for the benefit of taxpayers of the MoFs website since the DIR did not have its own website. 1567. The Member for the Third District clarified that the forms were downloadable. The CIR affirmed that they were. He then requested the name of the website. The DCIR informed that it was www.finance.gov.vg. The Member enquired whether the forms could be completed online as well. The FS replied not yet.

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1568. The Member for the Third District noted that one of the problems he had found with the forms was that the information requested was repetitive and it appeared that similar data was requested for the week, month and year. He asked whether that aspect had been improved upon and stated that he believed the reason the form remained as it was, was because no one in the DIR had a problem with it. The CIR responded that she did not agree with the statement, but the office would examine the forms to see how they could be improved for the benefit of the taxpayers. 1569. The Member for the Third District thanked her for her response and enquired about her tenure with the DIR. The CIR responded that she had been in the position as Commissioner for five years and with the department for 28 years. The Member for the Third District enquired whether she had seen significant changes during her tenure with the DIR. The CIR responded that they had moved from one tax system to another. The Member shared that during this particular period they had heard quite a bit about taxes and what persons should pay and the format of the forms and referred to the United States who was considering progressing to a single form and charging a flat rate. 1570. The Member for the Third District referred to the Virgin Islands and enquired whether anything of a similar nature was forthcoming. The Member then referred to the small business man operating from the back of a pick up truck and stated that if the DIR wanted that persons taxes, then they had to be creative to ensure they got that person to pay. The CIR responded that the businessman was still required to provide financial statements, if not to the DIR, then to the banks or some other agency. The Member for the Third District informed that he asked because the small business man operating from his pickup truck was not going to go to an Accountant at year end to file returns. 1571. The Chairman thanked the CIR and DCIR for attending the proceedings of the SFC.

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HEAD 295 Present:

INTERNAL AUDIT DEPARTMENT

Mr. Neil Smith Mrs. Dorea Maduro-Corea

Financial Secretary, Ministry of Finance (FS) Deputy Director of Internal Audit, Internal Audit Department (DDIA)

Mr. Simba Todman

Internal Auditor III, Internal Audit Department (IAIII)

Mrs. Maria Thomas

Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Finance (FPOMOF)

1572. The Chairman welcomed the DDIA and the IAIII to the proceedings and asked that they state their names and positions for the record and they complied. 1573. The Member for the Third District enquired about the number of vacancies in the Department. The DDIA responded that there were none. The Member then queried whether there was a DIA. The DDIA admitted that that was the only vacancy in the Department. The Member for the Third District asked the FS whether the DIA was completely removed from the Department. The FS responded no and informed that there were some administrative details that were being finalised. 1574. The Member for the Third District clarified that there were six Internal Auditors, an Administrative Officer, one Executive Officer, one Clerical Officer, a Messenger and an Office Cleaner, and that all of the posts were filled. The DDIA responded that that was correct. The Member for the Third District enquired about the present physical location of the office. The DDIA replied that the offices were located in the Ashley Ritter Building, above the Labour Department. The Member then queried the amount of space occupied by the Department and whether it was the entire floor. The DDIA responded that the Department occupied the whole top floor. !"#$%'*'%&'%"#$%

1575. The Member for the Third District noted that the staff complement was 10 persons, not 11 as specified, and the Office Rent was $110,000.00. The Member enquired about the expiry of the lease agreement. The DDIA responded that it expired in 2013. 1576. The Member for the Third District then requested the DDIA to explain the functions of the Internal Audit Department. She provided a summary informing that the functions of the Department were to primarily provide appraisals to Government agencies with regards to their functions, operations and recent assessments they may have had. The Member queried how the appraisals were performed, whether by request or whether it was systematic and at a specified time of the year, according to a list, the Internal Audit Department (IAD) to perform an audit on a particular set of Departments or a project. The DDIA responded that that a two fold approach was used where sometimes they responded to requests made by different agencies, or sometimes they organised audits based on assessments performed by the IAD. 1577. The Member for the Third District clarified that upon completion of the appraisals the IAD made recommendations. The DDIA affirmed that he was correct. The Member enquired about the success rates for the implementation of the recommendations. The DDIA admitted that the success rate was currently minimal. 1578. The Member for the Third District stated that he was trying to assess the functionality of the Department and whether it had been functioning as it should. He said if the appraisals were being conducted that the recommendations were not being implemented as they should, it was an indicator that the Department was not being utilised as it was meant to be. 1579. The Member for the Third District asked the DDIA, if in her opinion, what processes should be changed or made, to have the recommendations implemented. The DDIA responded that currently there was a lack of enforcement for recommendations being accepted and implemented by Department Heads and Ministries, and she recommended that enforcement be increased by those agencies. The Member enquired whether the agencies had not had the necessary resources to implement the
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recommendations, or was it that the Departments deliberately ignored the recommendations, or whether it was a combination of both. The DDIA responded that based on how the IAD operates, once the assessments were completed, it was the responsibility of the agencies to either agree with the recommendations or to provide additional information to address the recommendations. She added that in her opinion, while lack of resources may have been a factor, in most cases the agencies blatantly disregarded the recommendations and did not implement them. 1580. The Member for the Third District gave the Water and Sewerage Department as an example, and stated that the IAD would have had an opportunity to investigate the agency and why they have had such a history of outstanding arrears or situations where meters were not read, or cases where even when meters were read and the balances paid, the monies were not credited to the account. The Member said that he was sure that the IAD investigated the Department, made recommendations, but yet the problems still continued with each passing year. The Member for the Third District enquired how the IAD proceeded in cases like that where recommendations were made, but not implemented and problems persisted. 1581. The DDIA admitted that the Member had a point with the question and stated that the Department continued to operate as it was designed to. She informed that in the past the IAD had lacked adequate enforcement as it related to legislation, but last year they were able to acquire some legislation to address Departments not implementing the recommendations. The DDIA stated that she believed the Department was closer to attaining its goal of being very functional. 1582. The Member for the Third District remarked that the problem had nothing to do with the Departments functions, but rather there appeared to be a breakdown between the recommendations made and the lack of implementation by the Departments. He stated that if a recommendation was made to a Department regarding the collection of the Governments money and those recommendations were not implemented in a timely manner, then concerns should be voiced in places where they will be heard. The
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Member for the Third District shared that in 2012 $6,900,000.00 had been budgeted for the purchase of desalinated water and the estimated expenditure for 2011 was $9,300,000.00. He shared that he had heard it being said that of the $9,000,000.00, the Government would be fortunate if it collected $2,000,000.00 and there were reasons why the collections were not happening. The Member stated that he imagined that the role of the IAD was not to simply point out fraud but also to highlight where savings could be made. He commented that if the fraud cases did not result in outlining a direct savings to Government, then the ways in which the Government could maximise on the collection of revenue should be made a priority. 1583. The Member for the Third District stated that while it was not a negative reflection on the DDIA, he did not see either of the two happening. The Member reiterated that between the IAD and the Government agencies involved, a solution must be found to make the systems effective. The Member enquired whether the DDIA had any solutions; she replied that at the present time, she did not. 1584. The Chairman informed the Members that the IAD had been moved from Subhead 62780 on pg 130 of the 2012 estimates and to page 157b and that the reference to last years proceedings was on page l50 of the 2011 Minutes. 1585. The Member for the Third District referred to the procedures for investigations and asked whether the office took the necessary original files or duplicates of the files. The DDIA replied that they took the files that were available to the IAD. The Member noted that nothing could happen in the Department until the files were returned. 1586. The Minister for Health and Social Development sought clarification on the query raised by The Member for the Third District, and stated that his understanding of the statement was that once the IAD took the file, no correspondence could be added or subtracted from the file while it was in their possession, however, work could still be carried out.

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1587. The Member for the Third District queried why a duplicate of the file could not be made for the IAD. 1588. The Minister for Health and Social Development responded that if that was done and the original left with the agency being investigated, an argument could be made that documents were inadvertently missed during the duplication process, or documents could go missing from the original file. The Minister further stated that that

procedure was followed in any investigative unit. 1589. The Member for the Third District stated that perhaps the IAD could take the original file, but leave the duplicate with the office. The Member informed the SFC that he recalled needing a file from a particular Department and the file was unavailable because it was with the IAD. 1590. The Member for the Second District enquired whether the DDIA was confirmed in her post. The DDIA responded that she was confirmed in the post. 1591. The Minister for Health and Social Development queried which agency conducted audits on the MOF if the IAD reported to the MOF. The FS replied that the IAD could audit the MOF, but there was also the Audit Department. The Minister clarified that the IAD would audit the other Departments, but the Audit Department would audit the MOF. The FS stated that for transparency purposes, yes. He added that he had no qualms about the MOF being investigated and stated that he had previously requested an audit. The Minister for Health and Social Development informed that a Department could not investigate itself. The Member for the Third District agreed. 1592. The Member for the Second District asked the DDIA to define the difference between the Internal Audit Department and the Auditor General. The DDIA replied that there was a distinct difference between the two agencies; she explained that the Audit Department focused on the financial statements of the Government of the Virgin Islands, whereas the Internal Audit Department focused on the operations, systems and risks of the different Departments within the Government. The DDIA noted that
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the question was two fold and added that most of the audit activities were requests from the different Government agencies, but most of the audits which were carried out, were based on risk assessments conducted by the IAD where they went into the field to examine the operations of different agencies. She further added that the requests were discussed with the different Heads of Departments before the Department was audited. 1593. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the IAD had received any requests to audit the Peebles Hospital Project. The DDIA responded that to date, they had not. Territorial Member then enquired if a request was made for the Green Houses Project. The DDIA replied that a request had been made, but it was deferred to a later date. Territorial Member queried the deferral and the DDIA informed that it was deferred by the Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour, but no future date had been discussed as yet. 1594. The Member for the Third District requested a list of the projects that had been audited for the past two years. The DDIA responded that in 2011 the Departments that were audited were Her Majestys Prison, the Department of Human Resources Salary Division, and Petty Contracts. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired whether all petty contracts had been audited. The DDIA replied that some were randomly selected for auditing. The DDIA explained that the audit of petty contracts dealt with the process of issuing a petty contract, and not necessarily the projects. 1595. The DDIA continued to provide the list which included the Work Permit Exemption Programme with the Ministry of Natural Resources & Labour; the Royal Virgin Islands Police Force Training. The Minister for Health and Social Development queried which aspect of the RVIPF training was audited. The DDIA responded that it was training expenses as it related to the level of officers being trained and the type of training being secured and received.

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1596. The Member for the Third District referred to the auditing of the petty contracts process and enquired how the processes changed; whether it was the selection of the contractor or perhaps the requirements of the contractor for qualification. 1597. The IAIII replied that to audit a petty contract, they examined the administration from the inception of the project to the close of the project; this included the process of awarding contracts, the monitoring of the projects and whether PWD had the necessary capacity to monitor the volume of contracts produced by the Government and so forth. He added that they also examined the process of closing off a petty contract where the work was just signed off on, and the quality of work being produced on the contracts. 1598. The Member for the Third District then asked what would be considered the perfect petty contract. He explained that he knew the requirements for a contract being issued from the PWD and said that once a contractor was selected, had to produce a trade licence and a certificate of good standing from the DIR and Social Security. The Member shared that once those requirements were met, the contract was let. The Member for the Third District repeated his question regarding the ideal petty contract. 1599. The IAIII responded that he was unable to define a perfect petty contract and was unsure that one even existed. The Member then enquired what the IAD looked for when identifying a questionable or ideal contract. The IAIII replied that some red flags included a lack of transparency in the awarding process to the contractor; as it related to the good standing certificates, upon investigation, it was discovered that the contractor owed arrears to the DIR and the basis of what good standing certificates were being issued. The IAIII explained that when DIR was consulted, the outstanding taxes for some contractors dated back to 1998 and so forth. 1600. The Member for the Third District stated that those facts were known and the DIR knew about the arrears before they issued the good standing with conditions. The IAIII affirmed that that was correct. The Member added that as it related to the transparency issue, it was petty contract and unless the project was tendered, the so!"#$%'*"%&'%"#$%

called transparency would not exist which was the nature of a petty contract. The Member for the Third District said that he was not sure that the issues identified were fair to a petty contract since they did not exist. 1601. The IAIII answered that since it was Government funds being expended, and with that they would hope that there would be some level of transparency within the process. The Member responded that the Department functioned within the petty contract system and knew the nature of the system, and requested a definition of the transparency in the selection process for issuing a petty contract. 1602. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked The Member for the Third District for his definition of a petty contract. The Member replied that it was a contract that did not require competitive bidding. The Minister asked if it was a nontransparent, inflated contract given on behalf of the Government. The Member for the Third District responded that if it was a major contract then it could probably be referred to as that. 1603. The Member for the Second District provided the definition of a petty contract being under $100,000.00 and the contractor providing evidence that he has all the requirements to be able to complete the job. He stated that once that was done, it was issued to the contractor by whatever process that the Government deemed fit, and how they were selected were based on a Government policy, which if the Government wanted to change, then they could do so. 1604. The Member for the Third District added that in the case of PWD, they prepared a Bill of Quantities at a set price which the contractor is forced to accept. The Minister for Health and Social Development informed that he asked since the IAIII was listing the criteria for an ideal contract and The Member for the Third District had disputed stating that the mere nature of a petty contract was subjective and not transparent. The Member for the Third District corrected the Minister and stated he did not say that the process was not transparent, but rather the selection process was subjective and informed that he did not know what the IAIIIs definition of transparent was.
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1605. The Member for the Second District shared that there was a clear policy which should be laid down with the Internal Audit Department and the Auditor General so that those two agencies would know that it was an established policy of Government and so that they would not go looking for things that would not exist. 1606. The IAIII referred the earlier point made by The Member for the Third District that the PWD always produced the Bill of Quantities for petty contracts and informed that that was not always the case. He stated that there were Departments that developed Bill of Quantities and petty contracts that never passed through PWD. The Member shared that that was why he queried the types of inconsistencies which were highlighted as it related to petty contracts. The IAIII informed that in other instances they found that clauses in the petty contracts had been removed and multiple contracts had been successively issued to the same individual on the same project. 1607. The Member for the Third District advised that those types of inconsistencies should be uncovered and shared with the relevant authorities. The IAIII replied that they were highlighted in the report generated. The Member informed that that was the type of information that he was listening for since he was only aware of his Departments and not the entire Government, only the IAD would know that. The Member for the Third District encouraged the IAIII to inform the Members of the types of anomalies that were uncovered during audits. 1608. The IAIII informed the Members that in the future, due to the enactment of the Internal Audit Act, all reports generated during an audit and once approved by the Audit Committee, will be laid before the table. He shared that the Members would be aware of the information generated from audits as it related to the findings and recommendations. 1609. The Member for the Second District enquired how the IAD determined the cost of the work for petty contracts and whether they had a qualified person in the Department to do so, or whether they depended solely on the PWD. The IAIII admitted that in the past, they had steered clear on quantifying the Bill of Qualities since they lacked the
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capacities within the Department to undertake such reviews. He added that in cases where the PWD had not prepared the Bill of Quantities, the IAD had asked them to do reviews for the IAD to ascertain whether it would have been in line with what the PWD would have produced. 1610. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired how they measured the quality of work done on the projects. The IAIII replied that they tried to utilise the PWD when they were not involved in the audit and explained that when they had utlised PWD to conduct reviews, it was primarily to review contracts that had been prepared in house by the various ministries and the Bill of Quantities were prepared in-house with no assistance from the PWD. 1611. The Minister for Health and Social Development noted that the IAD had a lot of confidence in the PWD to produce transparent and not translucent petty contracts. The IAIII responded that the Department used the resources that were available to them. The Member for the Second District stated that the PWD was supposed to guide the Government in terms of the contracts. He informed that the DPWD was the technical advisor to the Minister for Communications and Works and every contract prepared by the staff of the Department was approved by the DPWD, which meant that he took full responsibility. 1612. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian invited the DDIA to resume listing the projects and requested that a copy be provided to the Members. She informed that other organisations included the Department of Youth Affairs and Sports Youth Development, Contributions to Overseas Organisations, Human Resources

Disciplinary Action, and House of Assembly Assistance Grants. 1613. The Member for the Second District enquired why the DDIA had not been issued with an Acting appointment of DIA, since DFS had returned to his substantive post and the post of DIA was now available. He noted that, if the post was advertised and there was succession planning, the DDIA would be next in line to become the DIA
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and especially since in her capacity as the Deputy she had been called before the HoA to provide an account of the affairs and operations of the Internal Audit Department. 1614. The FS referred to his earlier statement regarding the administrative matters that were currently being sorted out. He admitted that the processes had not been moving as quickly as they should have been, and informed that once the administrative part was completed, the matter would be quickly rectified. The FS advised that the matter was currently out of his control, but once it was rectified he suspected that what the Member had suggested would occur. 1615. The Member for the Third District requested the academic and professional background of the DDIA. She replied that she held a Bachelor of Arts Degree in Business Administration with a concentration in Finance and Marketing and she had been working with the Internal Audit Department for the past 15 years. The Member for the Second District noted that the DDIA was fully qualified for the DIA post. 1616. The DDIA informed Members that she was concerned with staffing and expressed that currently there were 17 persons within the IAD but there were only 15 posts and she was not sure how the situation would have been handled. She advised that she had had conversations with the Premiers Office where their Managers would be transferred to the MOF and she was not sure how it would have been addressed. 1617. The Member for the Second District clarified his statement regarding the personnel and noted that they were over the limit for staff since there were only 11 approved positions according to the budget, plus an Office Cleaner, a Messenger and a Clerical Officer. 1618. The Premier thanked the DDIA for making the request and informed that discussions would be held with the PS and FS to remedy the situation. 1619. The Member for the First District commended the DDIA and the staff of the IAD for the fair and professional work undertaken in their capacities.
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1620. There being no further questions or comments, the Chairman thanked the DDIA and the IAIII for attending the proceedings.

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HEAD 300 Present:

POST OFFICE

Mr. Neil Smith Ms. Pascha Stoutt Mrs. Maria Thomas

Financial Secretary, Ministry of Finance (FS) Acting Postmaster General (AgPG) Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Finance (FPOMOF)

1621. The Chairman welcomed the AgPG to the proceedings and asked that she state her name and positions for the record. She complied. 1622. The Member for the Third District enquired about the number of the branches operated by the Post Office. The AgPG responded that there were 11 branches which included the outer islands of Jost Van Dyke, Virgin Gorda and Anegada. The Member clarified whether there were eight branches operating on Tortola; he was informed that there were two branches on Virgin Gorda. 1623. The Member for the Third District queried whether seven branches operated in Tortola. The AgPG replied that he was correct. He requested the locations of the Tortola branches. The AgPG responded that they were located in Cane Garden Bay, Carrot Bay, West End, Beef Island, East End and in Road Town which housed the operational building, as well as the General Post Office which was currently located in the Qwomar Building. She added that there was one in North Sound and also in the Valley in Virgin Gorda; one in Jost Van Dyke and one in Anegada, both of which were operating out of the District Offices. 1624. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the Qwomar Building now housed the main post office. The AgPG confirmed that that was correct. The Member queried whether the floor was on street level, the AgPG responded that it was not, and informed that it was on the second floor of the building. !"#$%'+#%&'%"#$%

1625. The Member for the Third District enquired whether there were any plans to build a post office since the Virgin Islands did not appear to currently have one. The AgPG responded that although a building was needed, there had been no discussions regarding any future plans to have one built. 1626. The Member for the Third District admitted that he had not read the manifesto of the new Government and enquired whether there were plans to construct a new post office building. He added that while he was not speaking from an informed perspective, it appeared that the relocation to the Qwomar building was an interim measure and he did not believe that the building was intended to serve as a Post Office. The Member for the Third District requested the Premier to respond regarding the future plans for a building. 1627. The Premier responded that he also believed the move was a temporary measure and affirmed that it was important for a building to be constructed. The Premier noted that it was a matter of when the building would be constructed, but it was the intent of Government to have one built. 1628. The Member for the Third District clarified that it would not be a similar situation as the North Sound. 1629. The Premier responded that he had to be realistic and was unable to provide a definitive deadline. 1630. The Member for the Second District referred to previous discussions to have a joint building between the Ports Authority and the Post Office in the present general site. He queried whether the discussions were ongoing, or whether the idea had been changed. 1631. The Premier recalled the discussions from a long time ago and informed that since the Government had changed, they had not had that discussion, and he could not speak to whether the discussion was held with the previous administration.
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1632. The Member for the Third District informed the SFC that there had been no similar discussions. He advised that the proposed site had since been identified for use by the Financial Services Commission, based on the last discussions had by the previous administration. 1633. The Premier affirmed that the discussions, the new Post Office and the site would be a priority for the new Government; he noted that there had been many discussions on the location and whether it should have been built in the Eastern area and informed that the discussions would resume again. 1634. The Member for the Third District reiterated the importance of the discussions so that the construction of the building could move forward. 1635. The Member for the Sixth District informed that when she had joined the staff of the Post Office five years ago, she had met design plans that had been in place approximately 10 or 20 years prior, that had contained the Post Office as well as the Ports Authority Offices. The Member reiterated that the plan had been designed some 10 to 20 years ago for the same spot by the Qwomar Building. 1636. The Members for the Third and Second District affirmed that they were aware of the plan. 1637. The Member for the Sixth District remarked that nothing had been done over the years. The Member for the Third District noted that the site had changed hands several times. The Member for the Sixth District informed that to her understanding, the site was managed by the Ports Authority. 1638. The Member for the First District queried when the new Post Office in Carrot Bay would be opened. The AgPG informed that there was one issue to be resolved which was getting water pumped to the restroom and once that was resolved, they would proceed to set a date for the opening. She said that they wanted to ensure that everything was settled with the building before it was opened.
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1639. The Member for the First District enquired of the Premier when the said Building would be opened. The Premier responded that he would take it under advisement after discussions with the FS and the AgPG. The Member for the First District also suggested having a small opening ceremony for the building once everything had been finalised. The Member for the First District enquired when the mailboxes by the Benjamin Romney Recreational Park and those in Cappoons Bay would be functional. The AgPG responded that the mailboxes had arrived without the master lock that the postmen needed to access in order to place the mail inside. She informed that the manufacturers had been contacted and the locks should have presently been en route to the Virgin Islands and as soon as they arrived and were fitted, the boxes could be issued. 1640. The Member for the First District sought further clarification on the definition of soon in the context of the discussion. The AgPG repeated her previous response regarding the arrival of the locks. The Member then enquired whether the same staff from the Post Office would be used to deliver the mail when that branch was opened, or whether one of the youths in the area would be recruited for the job. The AgPG informed that the same postmen would be used since the Post Office was currently in the process of restructuring the logistics of the delivery of mail to the different routes since they realised there were some inefficiencies in the current system, which also incurred wasted time. She added that they were restructuring how the present routes were conducted, and after that, there would be two vacancies available which were for a Messenger and a Clerical Trainee. The AgPG informed the SFC that the restructuring process was designed to promote the present staff and then fill the vacancies that remained. She further stated that the two vacancies had been advertised internally but they received no response, so a Cabinet Paper requesting approval for the posts to be advertised externally had been sent to Cabinet. 1641. The Member for the First District invited the AgPG to provide the Members with the list of the services that the new location of the Post Office in Carrot Bay would offer, as compared to its former location in Carrot Bay. She complied and informed the
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SFC that the new location in Carrot Bay would become a Post Office instead of a sub Post Office and all of the services offered at the Road Town branch would be offered at the Carrot Bay branch. Additionally, the AgPG stated that along with the regular mail services, Inland Revenue and Land Taxes could be paid there, access to Ezone would also be offered, as well as the sale of stamps and fax services, scanning services and internet access for those who needed it. The AgPG further stated that while the new Carrot Bay Post Office would offer the same services as the Road Town branch, it would offer more facilities since the Road Town branch did not provide copying and fax services. 1642. The Member for the First District thanked the AgPG for the information provided and requested an update on the progress of the negotiations geared towards facilitating the payment of utility bills to accommodate the elderly persons in the community and reduce the need for them to have to travel into town to conduct business. The AgPG responded that, thus far, negotiations were had with BVI Electricity Corporation, the Water and Sewerage Department and LIME. She explained that since LIME had a new manager, the Post Office had been trying to contact them to further the negotiations that had been held with the former manager. The AgPG added that a meeting date had yet to be set and they were still trying. 1643. The AgPG informed the SFC that in relation to the Water and Sewerage Department and the BVI Electricity Corporation, the structure of how the companies issued their bills would have to be changed in order for them to be captured by the Post Offices system. She noted that those were the issues that needed to be sorted out between the parties so that they can move forward 1644. The Member for the First District clarified that those services would eventually be added to the present list of services provided. The AgPG responded that once the negotiations were mutually accepted by all parties, the services would be. The

Member for the First District stated that the purpose of the Government was to

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provide service for the people and all efforts must be made to ensure that the services attracted the people since it was one Government. Subhead 61510 Office Rent 1645. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian referred to the notes under this subhead which stated that the funds were to be used for the rental of space for Carrot Bay, and East End/Long Look Branch Post Offices, Main Post Office (Maduro Building) and Sorting Facility. He enquired whether the Government owned the building in Carrot Bay. The AgPG responded that it did not own the current building occupied by the Post Office. 1646. The Territorial Member commented that he thought Government had bought the property. The AgPG explained that there were two buildings in Carrot Bay and the one building that Government had purchased was the one in which the Post Office was trying to have the water issues rectified before they could move from the rental property to the Government owned property. The Territorial Member enquired

whether the building in the front, was the building that rent was being paid for. The AgPG said no. He then sought clarification on which building it was, and whether it was the one in the back. The AgPG confirmed that it was. Subhead 61320 Equipment (Major) 1647. The Territorial Member referred to the notes under the subhead and enquired whether it was a new machine that the office was trying to purchase. The AgPG confirmed that it was and explained that the stamp canceling machines that they needed to acquire were to assist the operational staff with canceling letters and functioned to date stamp and keep a count of the mail that passed through. She informed that it assisted with the efficiency of distributing the mail to the population. The AgPG further informed that the strapping machine, which included the crates and other equipment, was used to package mail when it went overseas. She explained that the strapping machine was comprised of the crates, the cover and the machine straps. The AgPG further explained that the mail was placed inside of the crates, and then
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covered, and the machine strapped it. She informed that, without the required UPS packaging, when the mail reached the international packing centre in Miami, the mail from the Virgin Islands was placed on the side. The AgPG shared that, as a result, mail from the Virgin Islands would take a longer time to get to the greater United States from Miami. She explained that mail from the Caribbean generally arrived in Miami in mail bags and those bags were placed on the side, while the mail that was in the crates and packaged according to the regulations, was placed on the conveyor belt and sorted, but the Caribbean mail sat until they were ready to process it. 1648. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the security requirements. The AgPG informed that it was a Universal Postal Union (UPU) mandate that each postal administration of each member state of the union had to implement a security unit within each organisation. 1649. Territorial Member enquired whether the stamp canceling machine and the strapping machine were new and whether the staff had to undergo training to operate the machines. The AgPG confirmed that the machines were new and affirmed that the staff had to undergo training locally for the operation of the strapping machine. 1650. The Member for the Third District enquired about the number of pieces of mail handled daily. The AgPG responded that it was between 8,000 to 9,000 pieces of mail daily as it related to letters; parcels were 250-400 packages. She informed that the numbers also included the mis-sent and return-to-sender mails. 1651. The AgPG informed the SFC that not all mail had stamps on it. She explained that some customers had postage paid or prepaid stamps, for example with banks, their credit statements were sent and the machine dated stamped the statements with a postage paid stamp. The AgPG shared that with the stamped envelopes, the machine was programmed to date stamp them; for the envelopes that were not stamped after they went through the machine, the staff would manually stamp them.

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1652. The Member for the Third District then referred to the satellite post office branches and noted that there were plans for the new Carrot Bay branch to offer full services. The Member for the Third District enquired whether any other branches offered full service; and whether the Beef Island branch was serving the intended purpose. The AgPG responded that the West End Post Office offered the same services as the Road Town branch; she informed that they were in the process of retraining the staff so that the same quality of service would be consistently delivered at all the branches. The AgPG admitted that it would take a little while with Anegada and Jost Van Dyke since they were District Offices, but they were trying to get Jost Van Dyke sorted out with mailboxes since there were some issues with the capacity. She said they were trying to address those issues and implement the new structure as they progressed. She informed the SFC that the same stood for Anegada. 1653. The AgPG referred to the Beef Island Post Office branch and shared that it was also being restructured to fulfill its intent which was to ensure that the traveling public could be taken care of via the Post Office. She informed that in addition to posting mail, scales were recently installed so that any traveler who had excess baggage could post the excess through a package. The AgPG further informed that other items could be purchased such as souvenirs and miscellaneous items that a traveler might need en route to a destination. 1654. The Member for the Third District enquired whether posting excess items was a better option for passengers than paying the airline for overweight baggage. The AgPG confirmed that it was, and explained that where an airline might charge an estimated $100.00 for 20 pounds, the Post Office would charge approximately $60.00. The Member then enquired whether it would be possible to purchase a money order, register a piece of mail and post a parcel at a Post Office outside of the Road Town Branch. The AgPG responded that that was the intent for 2012 in the restructuring of every branch of the Post Office.

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1655. The Member for the Third District enquired about the possibility of thefts of money orders or stamps from the Post Office. The AgPG replied that there was always a risk in every business, but to her knowledge, no thefts had occurred during her tenure as Acting Postmaster General. 1656. The Minister for Health and Social Development noted that all of the Post Offices were being turned into revenue generating operations and enquired about the type of security that was to be implemented. The AgPG sought clarification on whether the Minister referred to the security measures for the building or the personnel. 1657. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that institutions and individuals were being robbed hence his query and concern. The AgPG informed the SFC that thus far, a security assessment had been conducted in the General Post Office at the Maduro Building as per the UPU mandate. She further stated that the monies being requested in the budget would also include having the assessment done in the outer branches and based on the data gathered, they would be able to properly move forward with their security strategies for the building, the staff and the revenue generated. 1658. The Member for the Fifth District enquired whether credit card machines were in use at any of the branches. The AgPG responded that they were in use at the General Post Office, as well as in North Sound and the Valley. The Member enquired whether there was one at Beef Island as well. The AgPG affirmed that there was. 1659. The FS informed the SFC that the Post Office had an obligation to provide some basic services and shared that he did not mind losing money to ensure that his officers would be safe. The FS noted that the Post Office was on a mission to revitalize the services provided to reflect the changing needs of the population. He shared that at the risk of becoming too aggressive, they had to establish themselves in the market providing the services and then streamline other areas. The FS said that there were some human rights issues that needed to be fulfilled and safety was one of them.
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1660. The Member for the Second District referred to the significant use of emails and technology and queried whether it was still profitable for the Government to invest so heavily in equipment. The AgPG responded that it was. 1661. The Minister for Health and Social Development noted that mail was a human rights obligation. The AgPG responded that the UPU was a member of the United Nations and under the UN Convention it was basically a human right for the Government or the member states of the UPU to provide basic postal service to the population. The Member for the Third District opined that even if Tortola had one post office, the Government would not be depriving the public, but rather they were trying to make it convenient for persons living on the outskirts of the Central Post Office. The Member noted that it would therefore not be a human rights violation not to have a post office based on the outskirts if access to postal service was a human rights requirement. 1662. The AgPG reiterated that providing the population with equal access to postal service was one of the conditions of the Convention. The Member for the Third District asked her to clarify accessible and referred to the ESHS based in Road Town and informed that it was accessible to everyone. He stated that he was not arguing against having the services, he was merely pointing out that it could not be considered a human rights violation. 1663. The Member for the Fifth District stated in the context of the Virgin Islands, having only one post office based in Road Town would appear unreasonable to those living outside of Road Town. The FS informed that the intent was to make the Post Office profitable or at least break even, and there were a number of revenue generating strategies to be implemented. 1664. The Member for the Third District commented that if the United States Postal Service could not make money, then what were the plans of the Post Office to achieve that, especially since there was so much locally based competition. The Member added that he did not see how it was possible to make the Post Office profitable. The Member for the Sixth District stated that whether or not the Post Office was
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profitable, the service still had to be provided and requested a statement of the revenue generated versus the expenditure. The FS informed that revenue collection at the end of 2011 was $4,490,000.00 and the cost to operate the Post Office was $2,800,000.00. The Member for the Third District enquired about the revenue generated by sale of stamps. The FS informed that it was $4,070,000.00. The Member enquired about the type of stamps sold including those for stamp duty. The FS responded that it was postage stamps and the philatelic stamps were $10,000.00. 1665. The FS stated that approximately three weeks prior, a meeting had been convened by the Caribbean Postal Union in the Cayman Islands for Ministers, Permanent Secretaries and CMGs and some of the same concerns raised by The Member for the Third District were discussed. The FS said that similar concerns were shared on a global scale by all of the nations operating postal services, and noted that some had managed to resolve the issues a little better than others. He explained that Malta had managed to transform their postal service into a profitable revenue generating operation by diversifying into other services. 1666. The FS further stated that the same could be offered in the Virgin Islands, the only problems would be the appetite of the public to the new services being offered and the response of the private sector operations since they had already controlled the most profitable parts of the postal service such as the express mail and so forth. The FS said that by doing so, the private sector had left the Post Office with the less profitable portions. 1667. The FS referred to the Minister of Guyana who had also attended the meeting and had lamented that while the private carriers such as DHL and FedEx had the most profitable parts of the business, the Government still had to ensure that persons in the Amazon had access to mail. The FS shared that while it was not cost effective for them to do it, it still had to be done, and concluded that it was simply a matter of finding a niche and the appetite.

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1668. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the Post Office had been able to provide express mail services. The AgPG responded that they had finally ironed out the logistics of providing express mail services and informed that once the service was provided, customers would basically be informed that they would be paying a premium over other postal services to have their packages delivered within a specified time. She shared that when a postal administration planned to promise a customer that their mail would be delivered, for example, from Tortola to Miami in two days, the logistics had to be in place. The AgPG informed that it had finally been sorted out through AmeriJet who would be transporting the packages. She further informed that the background checks had been done and the Post Office had already tested the system with the regular mail to see how often the hand over was made once they had received the mail, and when it was delivered to the administration in Miami. 1669. The AgPG stated that they were very pleased with the results which included handover in 24 hours. She shared that they had started to handle all US mail coming into and out of the Virgin Islands. The AgPG explained that United States Postal Service was using AmeriJet to transport its mail and mail would be arriving daily except Sunday. She said that it meant that whenever the flight arrived, the exchange was made between the US and Virgin Islands mail. The AgPG informed that customers would be promised delivery of mail within two or three days depending on the exact location in the United States, of the packages final destination. She further informed that the final aspect of the system was to implement the electronic system and the service would be ready to be offered to the public. She shared that they currently handled incoming express packages from the US and it was treated accordingly in the Virgin Islands. 1670. The Member for the Third District enquired about the length of time that FedEx took to deliver the same package. The AgPG responded that FedEx offered different services. The Member replied that that was not the question asked and repeated his query. The AgPG responded that FedEx offered one day, two day, three day and four day services and the customer paid according to which service was needed. The
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Member clarified that a two day service was the best option the Post Office would be able to offer when its express service was introduced. The AgPG replied that the best service that would be provided would be according to the needs of the customer. The Member for the Third District queried whether a one day service was offered by the Post Office. The AgPG advised that the logistics with the USPS would have to be worked out if that was the service to be offered by the Post Office since the USPS would have to agree to deliver the package to the customer within the specified time period as well. 1671. The Member for the Third District sought to clarify his question and summarised the information that had been provided by the AgPG regarding the implementation of an express mail service in the Virgin Islands. He queried whether the recipient in the United States would receive the mail within the two day period stipulated and whether that was the best option provided by the Post Office. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the mail would take two days to get through customs and the mail sorting facility and whether additional time would be required for the mail to then be delivered to the recipient. He further enquired who provided delivery services of the mail on the other end to the recipient. 1672. The AgPG responded that the USPS would deliver the mail in the US because it was being sent from Post Office to Post Office. She admitted that Customs was a serious consideration since it had to pass through that office and informed that the layover in Customs was also an issue with the USPS as well. The AgPG informed that the monies that were requested in the budget for the software that was used to prepare the package. She informed that two new facets added to the software which included a customs module which included a pre-advice section. She said that for example, if an item was coming from Tortola into Miami, the US Customs automatically gets the pre-advice as to what was in the package and that pre-advice procedure would usually expedite the process of getting the package out of customs and delivered.

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1673. The AgPG informed that currently, without that pre-advice, if Customs decided to hold a package whether priority or regular, that was their prerogative because if it was not legal in the USA, then it could not be legal for the Virgin Islands. She explained that every item was checked prior by the Virgin Islands Post Office and while Customs could be an issue at times, once the item cleared the US Customs, then the USPS treated it as priority mail. The Member for the Third District commended the AgPG on her expertise and knowledge of the postal system. He then enquired whether there were any records on the amount of money that FedEx and the other express postal services generated out of the Virgin Islands. The Member for the Third District recalled that there was once a time when all of the work undertaken by FedEx, had formerly been handled by the Post Office. He noted that all of the private sector postal services that handled express mail had made significant strides over the Government postal service and expressed his concerns. 1674. The Minister for Health and Social Development noted that FedEx had always been ahead in the postal services as it related to their operations. 1675. The Member for the Third District admitted that that was true and stated that it appeared that the Government postal services had remained stagnant. The Member noted that the United States Postal Service had tried to diversify into priority mail and had failed. He expressed that the task ahead for the Post Office was mammoth and he was trying to understand how they could tap into the express service. 1676. The AgPG replied that she did not have any figures for the revenue generated by FedEx, but she assured the SFC that whatever the amount, it had declined because the USPS had also used the FedEx and DHL aircrafts to transport their mail. She explained that they used to purchase space onboard the aircraft to transport the mail; however AmeriJet came on stream because it was becoming too costly. 1677. The Member for the Third District informed that by providing the required information on the competition to the Members, the AgPG would be able to adequately defend the budget and further aid the Post Office in being able to properly
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fulfill its duties without being buried by the competition. The AgPG noted the point made by The Member for the Third District. 1678. The Member for the Sixth District requested an update of the EZone postal service. 1679. The Member for the First District then requested that the AgPG provide an explanation on the Ezone service. 1680. The AgPG informed that EZone was a small package service offered out of Miami; she explained that it was a subscription where customers signed up for a subscription account. She informed that there were three types of accounts; the incentive account for Government employees, one for individuals and another for businesses. The AgPG explained that when a person registered, they received a postal address in Miami where locally based customers could order items out of the US or ship anything from the US, they could use the postal address and items would be delivered locally. 1681. The AgPG informed the SFC that since AmeriJet transported the packages as well for the Post Office since Ezone did not handle mail, the packages arrived daily. She said that when it was initially started they had offered a Tuesday and Thursday delivery, but the service had significantly grown over the past three years and now they delivered almost daily. The AgPG informed that thus far they had 702 customers and the business had grown 17% from 2010 to 2011. She added that earlier in the year the Post Office had started a promotional campaign to attract more customers and boost its revenue. 1682. The Member for the Eighth District enquired about the cost of the service and how the system functioned, whether there was a monthly fee plus a fee per package. The AgPG responded that the yearly subscription was $50 per Government employee, $75 for an individual and $150 for a business. She added that when the package landed in the Virgin Islands, there was a freight charge, an insurance charge, customs duties and a handling charge. She explained that the insurance offered reimbursed the customer
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150% in the event that the item was damaged during shipping and that was from company to the BVI Post. The AgPG stated that the customer paid 1.5% for every $100 that was spent for insurance, and insurance was mandatory. The AgPG stated that so far the strategy had worked excellently because even though the item was damaged, freight charges still needed to be paid because the Post Office brought it in. She explained that in paying the freight charges, the insurance reimbursed the customer for the damaged item plus the freight charges. 1683. The Member for the Third District enquired about the revenue generation from the Ezone service. The AgPG informed that there were two services offered which were the AmeriJet service and the Ezone service. She shared that both were combined which generated approximately $128, 500.00. The Member enquired whether there was any information available on the transactions conducted by their customers and whether the transactions were from repeat customers or one time only. The AgPG responded that 50% were repeat customers and during the Christmas season the Post Office had a promotional drive to attract new customers at Christmas on Main Street. She added that the drive was also held during the summer months and during the peak season of October to December, so approximately 120 out of the 702 customers were recruited during that time. The AgPG informed that they brought in items such as car parts via AmeriJet and Ezone, as well as bicycles and couches. She stated that the BVI Post tried to assist its customers however possible. 1684. The Member for the Fifth District enquired whether Ezone was the fastest option offered by the postal service. The AgPG replied it was, until the express service was implemented. The Member for the Fifth District sought clarification on what would be carried by the express service. The AgPG replied that it was small items such as an express letter, express package or an express packet. The Member for the Fifth District enquired about the ability to handle bigger items. The AgPG replied that they would recommend the AmeriJet service for fridges, stoves etc since it was cargo which was not considered mail. She explained that a postal item was anything less than 44 pounds and once it was over that weight, it was considered cargo or freight.
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1685. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian commended the AgPG and her staff for a job well done considering the challenges posed. The Territorial Member noted that the BVI Post had done exceptionally well considering all the other postal services that offered competition, and credited all the Government administrations for positioning the BVI Post to be able to function. The Territorial Member recommended that the AgPG be further promoted within the establishment. He noted that the FS had indicated that the confirmation was being sorted out and Territorial Member looked forward to hearing more good things coming forth out of the BVI Post Office. 1686. The Member for the First District commended the staff of the BVI Post for the exemplary work that was done, in spite of all of the limitations. He noted that they were always looking for creative ways for the BVI Post to progress and become more profitable rather than being a liability. The Member for the First District also commended the AgPG on her performance at the proceedings, noting that it was her first time before the Members to report on the departments activities and to defend their budget. 1687. The Chairman thanked the AgPG for attending the proceedings and for providing a comprehensive report to the Members.

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HEAD 310 Present:

TREASURY DEPARTMENT

Mr. Neil Smith Ms. Anna Rabsatt

Financial Secretary, Ministry of Finance (FS) Ag. Accountant General, Treasury Department

(AgAcctGen) Mrs. Maria Thomas Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Finance (FPOMOF)

1688. The Chairman thanked the panel for attending the deliberations, and requested that they state their names and positions for the record. Subhead 60300 Authorised Staff 1689. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the Treasury had any vacant posts. He also enquired of the 26 Accounts Officer I/II which are cashiers. 1690. The AgAcctGen stated that currently the Treasury has three vacancies at the Accounts Officer level. She further stated that in the Treasury the vacancies are structured

according to the Functional Units, within the Cashier group there are two vacant posts and in the Financial Unit one post. Subhead 61620-Local Travel 1691. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that in the actual expenditure of 2010 the Treasury spent $44,370.00 and in 2011 the estimated expenditure was $43,428. He enquired the reasons why local travel for 2012 was $364,500. 1692. The AgAcctGen stated that the amount of $364,500 was an error and should be approximately $45,000.

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1693. The Budget Officer II explained that that figure was $364,500, after budget cuts the estimated amount for 2012 was $36,400. 1694. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian noted that the amount listed for 2012 was an error and that the budgeted amount for the Treasury 2012 budget would be reduced by approximately $300,000.00 to which the Budget Officer II agreed. 1695. The Member for the Fifth District enquired what type of local travel was done by the Treasury Department. The AgAcctGen stated that the monies assigned for local travel were to facilitate the travel allowances of the Accountant General, Deputy Accountant General, Senior Officers and the Cashiers. She explained that the Cashiers worked at different stations and in the event that they were unable to use their own transportation, they could get to their stations by another mode of transportation. She added that the monies also funded the Accounts Managers travel to stations on the Sister Islands. Subhead 61310 - Replacement of Vehicles 1696. Territorial Member Archibald Christian commented that the Treasury should consider the purchase of a vehicle. He added that in looking at Subhead 61310 -Replacement of Vehicles the actual expenditure for 2010 was $28,000 and the Treasury travel cost has exceeded $40,000.00, consideration should be given in purchasing a vehicle. 1697. The AgAcctGen stated that, at present, Treasury has purchased a new vehicle which was being used by the Accounting Managers in charge of the Cashiers and the Messenger. 1698. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian observed that, even with the purchase of a new vehicle, the costs for Subhead 61620 - Local Travel was that high, to which the AgAcctGen replied yes. Subhead 62415 - Security

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1699. The Member for the Third District enquired from which Subhead the courier was paid and how many there were. He further enquired whether the $247,800 Estimated 2011 was only used for the payment of the Courier. 1700. The AgAcctGen stated that the courier was paid from Subhead 62415 - Security and that presently the Treasury has one Courier Company. She stated that the monies estimated for 2011 was solely used to pay the Courier Company. 1701. The Member for the Third District stated that it was relayed to the SFC that monies collected for spousal and child maintenance was not being remitted on time by the Treasury and enquired the reasons for the late payments. 1702. The AgAcctGen stated that that complaint was new to the Treasury. She stated that Treasury was very passionate about spousal and child maintenance getting to the recipient on time. She added that payment was made in 24 to 48 hours of these vouchers arriving at Treasury. They made the next available cheque run. She also stated that the Treasury calls the Magistrate Court and Supreme Court to make sure that the payments get to Treasury on time for processing. 1703. The Member for the Fifth District enquired of the AgAcctGen whether this was how the Treasury operated to her knowledge prior to her acting appointment, to which the AgAcctGen replied yes. 1704. The Member for the Third District requested an update on the cash flow situation at the Treasury. The AgAcctGen stated that as of presently any vouchers that have come to Treasury has been paid. She stated that there were a few cheques that were being held from last year which would be released at the end of February 2012 and funding was available. 1705. The Member for the Third District asked for clarification from the AgAcctGen on the reason Treasury was paying vouchers for 2012 but yet has not released cheques for December 2011.
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1706. The AgAcctGen stated that because the year was closing the bulk of vouchers within Treasury and being that the first quarter was slow in terms of collection of revenue she did not want to release all those vouchers at once. She stated that the only cheques that have not been released were those of December 31st 2011. 1707. The Member for Third District enquired whether cheques were printed for vouchers made at the end of November 2011, and when they were released. 1708. The AgAcctGen stated that payment for vouchers made in November 2011, cheques were released in December 2011. She stated that, in the last week of December 2011, Treasury received its highest number of vouchers throughout the year. She further stated that if all of those vouchers were released at the same time it would mean the amount of payment out would be far greater than the revenue coming into the Treasury. She noted that that was in any given year. 1709. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the vouchers for December had been have been printed. The AgAcctGen stated that all vouchers for December 2011 had been printed but, due to the high volume of vouchers in the last week of December 201, these cheques were not released. 1710. The Member for the Third District enquired whether cheque runs were done for January 2012. The AgAcctGen stated that two cheque runs were done for the month of January and all of those cheques were released. 1711. The Member for the Third District seek further clarification as to the reason Treasury was paying for vouchers made in January 2012, and cannot release payment for vouchers made in December 2011. He enquired whether the funds were being paid from the same pool of funds. 1712. The AgAcctGen stated the monies for payment of the cheques for December 2011, and January 2012, were being paid from the same pool of funds. The AgAcctGen

stated that the cheque run that was done in January 2012 was not of a large amount.
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She stated that, because those payments were not of a significant amount, she preferred that the cheques were released. 1713. The Member for the Third District stated that the Treasury do have a cash flow problem. The AgAcctGen stated that at present there was a cash flow problem which usually occurs during the first quarter because revenue are slow at this point in time. 1714. The Member for the Third District queried the total sum of monies for the cheques not yet released for December 2011. He also enquired the total amount paid out as of January 2012. 1715. The AgAcctGen stated that the cheques for December 2011 that were not yet released totalled one million dollars. She noted that this was because a significant amount of

the cheque for December 2011 had already been released. The AgAcctGen stated that, as of January, the Treasury had paid out about 10 million dollars which included government payroll. 1716. The Member for the Third District asked the AgAcctGen when the Treasury collected the last amount of monies from the Financial Services Commission. The AgAcctGen stated that the last monies collected from Financial Services were in January 2012, and that was funds from December 2011 which was about five million dollars. She further stated that she has another 8 million which should be cleared for processing within the next 24 hours. 1717. The Member for the Third District enquired if the 5 million received from the FSC would fall under the 2012 accounts or the 2011 being that they were from December 2011. The AgAcctGen stated that receipt received in January from the FSC was recorded in the 2011 Account. 1718. The Member for the Third District enquired the present cash balance from the Treasury. He also enquired the amount of funds paid out by the Treasury. The AgAcctGen stated that the cash balance stands at $72 Million as of December 30, 2011. She stated that she presently does not have the payable figures. !"#$%($)%&'%"#$%

1719. The Member for Third District requested that the AgAcctGen provides the SFC with cash figures as of February 7th 2012 as well as payables for the same. Subhead 62830 Remittances and Agents Charges 1720. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired what this Subhead entailed. The AgAcctGen stated that the expenditure that was charged against this vote came from the fees for the Credit Cards. She also stated that this Subhead includes the gains and losses of the funds that came from the Crown Agents account which comes in British Pounds with a monthly statement of exchange rates from the Ministry of Finance which is used by the Treasury to record the funds in US dollars. 1721. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether this Subhead was recently started. He noted that no funds were available under the revised estimate for 2011. The AgAcctGen stated that the fund for this Subhead was available for quite some time. She explained that the revised estimates for 2011 should be $232,000 and the estimated expenditure should be $95,000. 1722. The Member for the Fifth District enquired the type of work done by the Crown Agents. The AgAcctGen stated that the Crown Agents was an agency in the UK that managed the funds of a few pensioners that are living in the UK, manage fixed deposit CDs and the funds in the current account. 1723. The Member for the First District thanked the Treasury for appearing before the Board. He further thanked the Treasury for their continued good work despite the challenges. 1724. The Chairman thanked the panel for addressing the concerns and questions raised by the SFC and for being open and frank as it relates to the operations of the Treasury.

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HEAD 320 Present:

DEPARTMENT OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY

Mr. Neil Smith Ms. Lucia Donovan

Financial Secretary, Ministry of Finance (FS) Deputy Director, Department of Information Technology (DDDoIT)

Mrs. Maria Thomas

Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Finance (FPOMoF)

1725. The Chairman thanked the panel for attending the deliberations, and requested that they state their names and positions for the record. Subhead 60300 Authorized Staff 1726. The Member for the Third District enquired whether DoIT had any vacant posts. The DDDoIT stated that under Technology Support DoIT had two Programmer post vacant and one Programmer from Information System Services. The FS further stated that DoIT has fairly significant challenges finding programmers. He stated that this was a heavy technical subject and it might be boring to some persons as it entails looking at a computer screen all day. He also noted that in terms of training persons for the Virgin Islands are oriented towards computers are programmers. He stated that the DoIT was suffering daily because of the lack of programmers. 1727. The Member for the Fifth District queried whether DoIT cannot find programmers or they cant keep them. The FS stated that DoIT was having trouble finding and keeping Programmers. 1728. The Member for the Fifth enquired why programmers leave DoIT. The DDDoIT stated that two of the Programmers left. She stated that one went to seek other opportunities in the private sector as it was more attractive. She also stated that the
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other programmer wanted a change in career and transferred to a different Department. 1729. The Member for the Eighth District stated that persons in a Technical field that was well sorted after and that person wanted a change in career should be given an incentive. He stated that the Technical Field should be made more attractive. He enquired whether there were some incentives that could be put forward to keep the Programmers. The FS stated that in his opinion Technical positions should be paid to the same level as Administrative position. 1730. The Member for the Eight District stated that persons in high position have little or no appreciation for these Technical areas. He noted that several years ago officers who were Permanent Secretaries were making more money and were the bosses of Doctors. He stated that the Government cannot expect to build a Country in a dynamic society under these circumstances. He further stated the country is going to invest to send someone to study computer programming that person would come back after four years and after two years on the job they are going to leave. He stated that then DoIT would appear before SFC and state that they are looking for programmers. 1731. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if there was a solution. 1732. The Member for the Eighth District stated that you have to make the computer programmer post more attractive, He noted that the only profession that was

continuously oppressed and no one cares was the political profession. He noted that the solution was to recognise persons in these technical professions and provide incentives to keep them on the job. 1733. The DDDoIT stated that one of the issues they have encountered was that as a person you have to love programming. She also stated that not everyone has that mind set and would prefer more hands-on work than sitting watching a screen all day. She noted that some persons dont see the excitement of programming such as developing applications.
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1734. The Member for the Eighth District enquired whether the staff who worked in DOIT were BVIslanders and whether the vacant Programmer post was advertised. The DDDoIT stated that the majority of the Staff within DoIT were BVIslanders. She further stated that a request was made to advertise the programmer posts but she was not quite sure what had taken place as she has not seen any vacancies notices being advertised. 1735. The Member for the Second District noted that there was a lot of Deputies coming before the SFC from the various Departments under the Ministry of Finance. He enquired of the FS whether the Directors of these Departments were sick or on annual leave etc. 1736. The FS stated that in this particular case the DDoIT was on annual leave. He stated that it was compulsory that leave was taken or else she would lose those days. 1737. The Member for the Eighth District enquired of the FS whether the DDoIT was given a letter. The FS stated that she had already left on leave before the MOF could do so. 1738. The Member for the Eighth District enquired whether the DDDoIT was given a letter to Ag.DDoIT and for how long. The FS stated that the HRMMOF had issue a letter to the DPDoIT appointing her Ag.DDoIT and the appointment goes up to the first week in March. Subhead 62620 - Computerisation Expenses 1739. The Member for the Eighth District enquired whether the funds under this subhead covered computer licenses. The DDDoIT stated that the funds covered all computerisation cost of hardware and software agreements. 1740. The Member for the Eighth District asked for clarification on the type of rental and lease agreement funded under this subhead. The DDDoIT stated that this subhead also funded the site location for the backbone network that provides services to all the Departments throughout the Territory.
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1741. The Member for the Eighth District enquired what was the refresh schedules for the computers and whether the Department had a schedule. The DDDoIT stated that they did not have a standard refresh schedules for computers but what the Department has establish is an operating standard. She stated that the standard life span of a machine was 3 to 4 years so if a machine goes down before that period the machine would be replaced or repaired but it was not done in a refresh schedule. 1742. The Minister for Communications and Works wondered whether computers were replaced frequently or on a needs basis within various Departments. The DDDoIT stated that there was no set schedule, that computers were replaced based on how well they functioned on a needs basis. 1743. The Member for the Fifth enquired whether DoIT had a repair system for computers within their Department. The DDDoIT stated that DoIT Technicians conduct internal repairs. She also stated that the department makes use of warranty that was purchased along with the equipment. She further stated that the warranty was used if a machine has a hardware problem and needed to be sent back to the manufacturer. She noted that if the computer had software or configuration issues this was handled by the DoIT Technicians. She also noted that if the machines warranty has expired then the DoIT Technicians make repairs to those machines. 1744. The Member for the Fifth District enquired whether the Department worked closely with the various schools in terms of technical support. She also enquired how often these computers are upgraded. The DDDoIT stated that the Department has a system in place where they support the schools. She stated that every week the Department has different technician visiting the various schools. She noted that one of the

difficulties was that the funding for repairs and replacement of machines for the various schools was placed under Head 390 Ministry of Education and Culture. She further stated that, when there was any issue with school computers, they report this to the MOEC and they would provide funding for the repair.

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1745. The Member for the Eighth District enquired whether arrangement for these funds to be housed under MOEC was an idle arrangement to which the FS replied no. He also commended that to his view all funding for computerisation should be centralised. 1746. The Member for the Eighth District enquired how involved was the DoIT in the development process of systems for the whole Public Service. The DDDoIT stated that some Departments involve DoIT in the development of their systems. She stated that they work with those departments to provide the analysis, procurement, installation, training and maintenance of those systems. She stated that there are cases where Departments do not notify DoIT when purchasing systems. 1747. The Member for the Eighth District enquired whether Departments are allowed to source and purchase systems without DoIT involvement. The DDDoIT stated that in some cases Department do source and purchase computerised systems. She stated that often times DoIT encouraged Department to inform them when making purchases for computerised systems. 1748. The Member for the Eighth District asked whether there were any recommendations by DoIT to MOF in terms of stream lining these processes for the centralization of the Government systems. The DDDoIT stated that there has been long standing policy and procedures which has been disseminated throughout the Government in reference to the expectation regarding the implementation of computerised systems. She noted that the Department gets contacted by various Departments regarding their different initiatives they would like to pursue and where possible DoIT assist whether financially or technically. 1749. The FS stated that he was an advocate for the implementation of an integrated system for the Government of the Virgin Islands. He stated that integration of the systems was a priority for the MOF. He further stated that system had many compounded problems but of those problems was to have the system manages information more efficiently. He stated that various databases would be able to cross reference each
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other which would be an asset when providing technical support to the Ministers and

House of Assembly. He noted that an initiative would be embarked upon to exam the system and brings a new system into fruition. 1750. The Member for the Fifth District agreed that linking various databases would help the government produce more effective and efficient statistical reports. 1751. The FS stated that one Department should be able to access the information from another Department database that pertains to their particular task. He stated that the Government needs to be nimble and efficient in managing data, analyzing data and using that data to make a decision would be very critical to the success of the Territory. 1752. The Member for the Fifth District enquired whether DoIT visits the various schools including the Primary Schools. The DDDoIT stated that the visits included all public schools, Secondary and Primary. She stated that Technicians make site visits to the various schools on Mondays and Tuesdays. She noted that the Technicians go to the schools meet with the Principals and assess any computer issues they may have. She also noted that a report was submitted to the MOEC after the assessment was made. 1753. The Member for the Eighth District requested that the DDDoIT give the SFC the dollar value of computers purchased by the Government of the Virgin Islands. The DDDoIT stated that she did not have that information available at the moment. 1754. The Member for the Eighth District queried whether there was a standard for Government websites. The DDDoIT stated that the website initiative has taken a leap on its own. She noted that work was been done to create a portal through the Premiers Office as a gateway to Government Services. She noted that however some Department went ahead and created websites outside the Premiers Office initiative. She further stated that there has been discussion of Standardising Government websites which would be at an additional cost to Government. 1755. The Member for the Eighth District commented that the websites are costing the Government more money now in terms of management, as each site has different !"#$%(!'%&'%"#$%

vendors managing the websites. Government website.

He strongly suggested that DoIT Standardise

1756. The Member for the Eighth District stated that one of the reasons that these website are popping up throughout government and no one was looking at the centralised websites is frustration. He stated that DoIT was not as reliable as they should be and if DoIT cannot meet those needs the different department would venture outside government to meet them. 1757. The Member for the Eighth District stated that quite a number of Departments that appeared before the SFC had a subhead under their budget with a line item for computerisation. He stated that most of the Department stated that the subhead was for maintenance. He further stated that these Departments were Immigration, CAPS and Inland Revenue. 1758. The Member for the Eight District enquired how involved was DoIT in negotiating these maintenance agreement and whether there was a plan from DoIT prospective to relief the Government from these maintenance agreement with these external companies. 1759. The DDDoIT stated that she was only aware of CAPS and Inland Revenue. She stated that she was not aware of immigration maintenance agreements. She noted that those maintenance for CAPS and Inland Revenue came about because of the whole implementation process that they went through for their application. She further stated that the maintenance was part of the implementation package. 1760. The Member for the First District thanked the DDDoIT for the job well done and continues keeping the Government on the cutting edge. 1761. The Chairman thanked the panel for appearing before the SFC and answering any questions and concerns posed by Members.

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HEAD 330 Present:

MINISTRY OF NATURAL RESOURCES & LABOUR

Mr. Ronald Smith-Berkeley

Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour (PSNRL)

Ms. Heather James

Administrative Officer, Lands Unit, Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour (AONRL)

Mrs. Louann Hodge-Smith

Ag. Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour (AgFPONRL)

1762. The Chairman welcomed the panel from the Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour (MNR&L) and asked them to state their names and positions for the record to which they complied. 1763. The PSNRL gave a presentation on some of the initiatives that the MNR&L hoped to achieve for 2012. He said that the MNR&L planned to develop a comprehensive land policy that they hoped to have completed by the end of 2012, they hoped to have the guidelines and regulations for the Labour Code which were presently with the AG Chambers come on stream by the third or fourth quarter of 2012. They also hope to complete the revision of the Sites by the end of the year which was also at the AGs Chambers for revision. They planned to re-energise the beach commission to have a beach policy in place to effectively manage the beaches, to have Cabinet approve the climate change policy, a rental policy for short term rental and the Biodiversity Bill. 1764. The Member for the First District thanked the Minister and the PS for working diligently to resolve and improve the situation at Smugglers Cove. And based on discussions a solution would be forthcoming. He further stated that once a solution was in place it would avoid some of the negative media reports they were reported recently. He said that prior to the unfortunate incident that occurred at Smugglers
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Cove the plans were already being worked on to ease the burdens in the Smugglers Cove area not just for the First District but for the territory to keep the overall tourism product on the cutting edge. 1765. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian said that the unfortunate situation that occurred at Smugglers Cove was a lesson for the territory to learn going forward with respect to all government properties. He was of the opinion that some persons in the territory felt that they could do what they wanted on governments property, but they should be made to understand that anything of governments properties should be based on rules, policies and regulations. He said that measures should be put in place to ensure that a problem, such as the incident at Smugglers Cove, does not occur. He said it did not present a good image and those mistakes should not be repeated. He said that persons should be educated once there were policies in place and the beaches should be protected for all to enjoy. 1766. The PSNRL explained that he had received a telephone call and was informed that one person had been hospitalized and one person was taken to jail following an altercation at Smugglers Cove. He said that when he arrived on the scene he found out that a fight had occurred between two of the many illegal vendors over a particular space on the beach which was cleared by one vendor to operate and another had tried to occupy the space. The PSNRL stated that about eight to ten vendors operate at the beach illegally. He said that since he took up office he had met with them at least three times regarding their operations and all the issues on the beach and the way they behaved and hustled the tourist, but nothing had changed. He also had discussions with the Environmental Health Division because he was concerned that the vendors operated all day and there were no proper bathroom facilities on the beach for them to tidy themselves. He said that it was a multi agency approach to resolve the issues.

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1767. The Member for the Third District asked the PSNRL whether they were responsible for the beach and queried whether the beach facilities such as toilets were under another Ministry and whether the MNRL issued vendor permits 1768. The Member for the Second District advised that the land adjacent to the beach was crown land and that the beach, the land and the toilet facilities should be the MNRLs responsibilities. The PSNRL stated that they needed to look at the entire beach management process since some the facilities fall under different entities. 1769. The Member for the Second District asked if there is a plan to develop a beach policy and under which subhead the funding would be placed. 1770. The PSNRL replied that they hoped to complete a policy document by the end of the year and that it would not require any additional funding. He stated that it would be a matter of collaborating with other agencies to put measures in place. He sited the Cane Garden Bay Beach as an example which was often very crowded when cruise ships were in port. He said they had some initial discussions in terms of the

management of the beach wherein a clear path to the beach would be left unobstructed for emergency purposes and to allow for free movement. He said that they were also looking at having a minimum of four lifeguards during those high seasons and that programme would need funding. 1771. The Member for the Fifth District noted that it was not a simple solution in terms of not being costly. She said that funds would be needed to erect proper signage that would be visible to residents and visitors, and that regular and frequent management of the beach would be necessary. 1772. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked whether the MNR&L had an existing land policy to which the PS responded in the negative. 1773. The Member for the Second District recalled that a land policy which included Crown Land in Virgin Gorda was prepared by the former Premier when he was Minister for Natural Resources & Labour.
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1774. The AONRL stated that in the 1970s a consultant was brought in from the UK to conduct a study on the Stevens or Nottinghams Estate in East End and that same policy was expanded to include Virgin Gorda, but a comprehensive policy did not exist and the MNR&L goal was to develop a more comprehensive policy that would govern the entire crown land management in the territory including the marine sea beds. 1775. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked how soon the people of Anegada could expect a response in respect to their claims to lands as it seemed to be a very long process over the years, except close to election time when persons were awarded titles for land. 1776. The Members requested that the PSNRL provide information regarding the dates that land titles were issued for Anegadians under the last administration, the number of parcels that were given out in all Crown Lands and the names of the individuals that received them, the land policies for both Administrations, the members of the Committees, their terms of references and recommendations made. 1777. The PSNRL said that he would provide the information for the Members when they returned on Thursday. 1778. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the rates for land in Anegada, Virgin Gorda and Tortola. 1779. The PSNRL advised that the rate in Anegada was $201 in which $200 was for the survey fee and $1.00 for the consideration fee and there were no additional costs. He further stated that in Virgin Gorda it was $500 per residential house lot which was about a half acre. The AONRL further explained that it was 0.50 per square foot in Virgin Gorda but the past administration had changed it to $500. She continued and said that Sea Cows Bay 0.70 per square foot and Spooners was $1.00 per square foot for residential purposes and $1.25 per square foot for commercial uses. She also said that Horse Path was 0.50 per square foot and McNamara was 0.70 per square foot.
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She said that the difference in the various subdivisions would be that in the Stevens, Nibbs and McNamara Estates provisions were made for infrastructure development whereas in Spooners none were made in terms of sewerage and electricity. 1780. The Minister for Communications & Works asked whether there had been a special philosophy for the Virgin Gorda lands as there was for the Anegada lands. The AONRL said that the previous administration had lowered the price to allow residents in Virgin Gorda the ability to afford and purchase house lots. She said that

government do not sell land on the open market and what they offer for the various subdivisions was far lower than the market price, but there intention was to give residents the opportunity to own house lots to provide for their families. 1781. The Member for the Second District said that the occupants of the lands had certain privileges before the land was sold and that there were some historical attachments associated with the various subdivisions. 1782. The Member for the Third Distract asked which administration had set the rates for Spooners. The PSNRL said that a previous administration had set the rates for Spooners. The AONRL further added that a committee had been set up for Stevens and Spooners Estates and they created the terms whereby eighty percent (80%) of the first time owners had to come from the district and twenty percent from outside the district. 1783. The Member for the Fifth District asked whether there was a criterion for applicants to pay the full amount up front which was followed by a question from the Member of the Second District as to whether the land was taken back from the persons who were approved by Cabinet. 1784. The AONRL said that persons approved by Cabinet who could not pay were placed on a deferred list until another subdivision had become available. She said that they had a grant so they had the opportunity to have that award in Spooners Estate but some persons had not been forthcoming in terms of whether or not they were still
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interested in the land. The Member for the Second District stated that the AONL had no authority to changed assigned lots to a deferred list mentioned by the AONL; any such change should be null and void for there is no approved policy for such. 1785. The Member for the Second District asked whether those decisions were taken back to Cabinet for changes to which the AONRL replied in the negative. 1786. The Member for the Second District said that only Cabinet could rescind their decisions with regards to persons who were awarded the rights to land to. He said that there were more names than lots, but lots were awarded to selected persons in which those names which were submitted to the MNR&L. The Member for the Second District said that the MNR&L should only distribute land approved by Cabinet and they did not have the authority to remove names or award the land to other persons that had already been approved by Cabinet. He stated that if they did remove names from the approved list they were in violation of Cabinets approval. He said that the names of persons who could not pay and defaulted should have sent back to Cabinet to be removed from the list. He said that the Spooner matters were dear to him as he was the one who conceived the idea and spoke to the previous owner regarding selling land to the government and there was no justification under any policy for officers in MNR&L to change Cabinets decision and it made him very angry. 1787. The AONRL stated that when the MNR&L received the list of names that Cabinet had approved it did not have lots assigned to the names, and the assignment of lots was usually done after. With regards to Spooners Estate she said that there were ninety parcels that were awarded thus far and there were more persons than lots that were approved for the original sixty-nine lots. She said some persons would make a first deposit and never return in which the MNR&L would then place them on a deferred list. 1788. The Member for the Fifth District said that several persons had complained and felt that the policy whereby recipients to Spooners land must make full payment all at
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once or the land will be redistributed unreasonably. She said that the government made the effort for VIslanders to purchase this land and it should not be the aim to make the situation difficult 1789. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian noted that there was only one Secretary assigned to a commission and that was the Long Look Lands Commission and wondered whether secretaries were assigned to look at other lands. The PSNRL said

that there were other land committees but some had been dissolved, but would provide the information regarding the committees. 1790. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked whether there were other crown properties available that would be considered for subdivision in the future. The PSNRL stated that there were some available crown land on Virgin Gorda and two more subdivisions at Spooners Estate. 1791. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired about the criteria for purchasing land. The AONRL replied that persons must be BVIslanders or belongers, first time homeowners, and were not able to afford the purchase of land on the open market. She said that there was an application form which required the applicant to furnish additional information in terms of salaries and number of dependents which would be submitted to the committee to make an assessment of their eligibility for land. 1792. The Minister for Education and Culture also enquired as to whether an appropriate means test was done to check the veracity of the information on the application form. The AONRL said that they had implemented the application form late last year as the letter of application did not present adequate information for the previous committee to assess persons. She said that it was part of the MNR&L policy to screen

applications and verify some information before the applications were sent to the committees. 1793. The Member for the Second District asked whether the application form was approved by Cabinet as a policy of the MNR&L. The AONRL stated that the
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committees had complained about lack of information and they recommended that an application form be formulated to generate more information so that they would be in a better position to made informed decisions. She stated that based on that the Ministry implemented the form and to her knowledge it was not approved by Cabinet. 1794. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked whether there were application forms for all the other government properties. The AONRL advised that there was an application for Anegada Lands which was done in consultation with the AG Chambers. She said that they hoped to generate an application for all crown lands in the territory once the land policy was in place. 1795. The Member for the First District asked whether the MNR&L had seen any changes that Cabinet had made that was different from what the committee had recommended to which the AONRL answered in the affirmative. The PSNRL said that he was

unable to determine that, but gave an example of one instance where a list of names went to Cabinet and Cabinet had added an additional name. He said that he had not seen any names that were subtracted from the list during his tenure. 1796. The Member for the Fifth District asked whether the Lands Officer was a member of the committee and the AONRL responded in the negative. 1797. The Minister for Education and Culture asked who the Senior Lands Officer was and whether that person was on contract and was a VIslander. The PSNRL stated Mrs. Michelle St. Edmondson was the Senior Lands Officer. She was not a VIslander and had completed two contracts and presently held a temporary appointment. He further stated that the Lands Officer was Ms. Patricia Thomas. Subhead 61540 Land Rent-Lease 1798. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about Subhead 61540 Land Rent-Lease, and asked how long the lease for the Agricultural substation had been extended for.

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1799. The PSNRL stated that the lease for the Agricultural substation in Virgin Gorda was extended to the end of 2013. He said that they paid $12,000 per annum but it was valued at $46,000. He further stated that they had offered to pay $20,000 per year, but they agreed to pay the $36,000 per annum that the church had requested, for a period of two years. Subhead 62200 Specialist Expenses 1800. The Member for the Sixth District queried Subhead 62200 Specialist Expenses and asked the PSNRL to explain the fluctuations. The PSNRL stated that the funds were previously intended to engage the former PSNRL as a consultant, but those plans did not materialize. He said that the reduced amount would be utilized for any

consultancy that the MNR&L would approve. 1801. The Member for the Third District asked whether the MNR&L had any vacancies. The PSNRL stated that the current vacancies included one Accounts Supervisor and one Senior Assistant Human Resources Manager which was presently being filled. He also stated that there were two Senior Administrative Officers positions vacant and one post would be used to retain the services of the former Private Secretary to the Minister. The PSNRL informed that one AO had temporarily relocated to the Agriculture Department, but hoped that it would become a permanent arrangement since the officer could not return to the CAB. Subhead 61320 Equipment (Major) 1802. The Member for the Third District queried whether the MNR&L had a fully functional copier to which the PSNRL replied that they had requested funds under Subhead 61320 Equipment (Major) to purchase a new photocopier. 1803. The Chairman thanked the panel for their presentation and for the information shared with the Committee.

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HEAD 340 Present:

AGRICULTURE

Mr. Ronald Smith-Berkeley

Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour (PSNRL)

Mr. Bevin Brathwaite

Chief Agricultural Officer, Dept of Agriculture (CAO)

Mrs. Louann Hodge-Smith

Ag. Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour (AgFPONRL)

1804. The Chairman welcomed the panel representing the Agriculture Department and asked them to state their names and positions for the record to which they complied. 1805. The Chief Agricultural Officer (CAO) in a brief presentation stated that the DOA ran smoothly and that they had approximately 300 350 registered farmers in the Territory with the majority being on Tortola. He stated that over the past couple of years and more recently the DOA had made purchases of sheep, goats and cattle from St. Croix, to infuse new genes into the livestock. The CAO said that they had heavily invested in and expanded crop farming at Paraquita Bay to develop and enhance the propagation unit to distribute the cuttings and different varieties of fruit trees to the farming community. The CAO also said that they had encouraged younger persons to get involved in the agricultural industry, by starting a school garden programme. He also stated that one of the schools programme was started at the Joyce Samuel Primary School, which was funded by Ogier Trust Company and the operational aspect of the programme was done by DOA to develop a shade house. He said that the shade house was well underway and production continued at the school. He said that there was a similar initiative at the ESHS, the Eslyn Henley Richiez Learning Centre and a number of other schools had demonstrated interest with the most recent being the Claudia Creque Educational Centre in Anegada. The CAO also reported !"#$%(&(%&'%"#$%

that stray animals, especially dogs, served as predators and they needed funds to control that problem, in addition he advised that the substation in Virgin Gorda was on private land which belonged to the Anglican Church and they had to vacate the premises by 2013. The CAO further reported that they faced challenges with the quarantine division which had responsibility to protect the borders in terms of food and that they needed to develop a proper quarantine unit in the DOA with trained personnel to inspect and ensure that communicable diseases in both crops and livestock did not cross the borders. He said that they had difficulty finding technical staff to work in those areas. 1806. The Member for the Third District asked whether the Virgin Island White Sheep still existed. The CAO stated that the VI White Sheep still existed in the territory, but ownership of the sheep was claimed by both the USVI as well as the BVI and that was yet to be defined. He stated that VI White Sheep was the predominant species that the DOA promoted as there were many benefits to be derived. He said that the VI White Sheep and the Black Belly which were indigenous to Barbados were the only two species of sheep that were non-seasonal breeders. 1807. The Member for the Third District enquired about staffing at the DOA. The CAO advised that there were more than twelve (12) established and non-established posts that were vacant which included an Administrative Officer, Agriculture Officers, Labourers, Veterinary Assistants, and Agricultural Representatives. He stated that the DOA had a complement of eighty five (85) established and non-established staff. He further stated that the DOA did not have a Forestry Officer as the post was utilised elsewhere in the DOA, but they had a Forestry Assistant post. 1808. The Member for the Third District enquired about Farmers Week 2012. The CAO advised that the 2012 Farmers Week activities would commence on Friday, 10th February, 2012. He said that everything was on tract and had enough support from the stakeholders, primarily the farmers, and expected that good presentations would be done on all the islands.
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1809. The Member for the Third District asked whether the DOA still provided assistance to farmers, and what kind of assistance they received. 1810. The CAO stated that the programme still existed and served the farmers throughout the territory. He stated that the funds were reduced in the budget in recent times, but they continued to assist the farmers the best way they could. He further stated that after an application was submitted due research would be done before disbursement made. He stated that the assistance depended on the needs of the farmers, and that the DOA provided fencing materials, agricultural supplies, construction materials, irrigation, ground covering, housing for livestock and clearance of land by way of excavation. He said that the programme was not a complicated process. 1811. The Member for the Third District asked whether there were criteria to gain assistance. The CAO replied that there was no age limit, but the farmers had to be BVIslanders and registered with the department, must have proof of property under their control which would be verified before assistance was granted. 1812. The Member for the Third District enquired about loose livestock and whether a programme was in place. The CAO informed that the loose livestock programme still existed on Tortola whereby they collected loose livestock from private properties and public places, slaughtered them, and based on proper representation and identification from farmers they would be paid from the funds collected from the sale with the exclusion of the capture fee. He said that the programme did not exist on the Sister Islands due to insufficient funds. The CAO further stated that prior to slaughtering the animals; they would be purged and given ante-mortem and postmortem inspections to ensure that the meat was safe to eat. 1813. The Member for the Third District stated that the programme as he knew it was basically fully funded and self sustaining, and wondered whether the bank account still existed.

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1814. The CAO advised that the account still existed, but the funds were negligible and he petitioned for an additional $50,000 to extend the programme to Anegada where there were about seventy animals to be dispersed of. He said that realistically they would need to obtain land on Anegada to impound the animals, and it would take at least seven months to capture the animals. He said that presently there was no subhead for loose livestock. 1815. The Premier said that he would consider the CAOs request. 1816. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked whether the CAO had statistics on the livestock population. The CAO replied in the negative but advised that according to the law all livestock should be registered. 1817. The Member for the Eighth District asked whether an assessment was done on the wild animals to which the CAO replied that they only kept statistics of those animals in captivity owned by persons. 1818. The Member for the Third District asked whether it was possible to place the loose livestock on an uninhabited island. 1819. The CAO stated that they never considered transferring the loose livestock to one of the keys, but they would prefer to see the animals moved from Paraquita Bay since they did not have sufficient space. He said that the department had forty (40) acres of land at Paraquita Bay under their control, in which the majority was used for livestock with the exception of five six acres which were used for crops and eleven acres for greenhouses. 1820. The CAO further advised that he had approached the Georges on Main Street, which was a well known family, who owned Joes Hill estate which was about 60-100 acres. He stated that he was in consultation with them and had been working on a proposed arrangement to be sanctioned by the MNRL and Cabinet to acquire a portion of the land on a long term basis to keep the loose animals.
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1821. The Member for the Sixth District enquired about the qualifications for a veterinary assistant, and stated that she knew of an individual who was interested in that area. 1822. The CAO stated that the veterinary assistant position was similar to a nurse and required a minimum of three years training in the field. He said that the studies were once undertaken at a training centre in Guyana at RIPAHA, but the University of Guyana and Jamaica offered a programme in Animal Health Assistant. He further advised that he would review the individuals situation. 1823. The Member for the Third District asked who held the posts of Veterinary Officer, and whether Mr. Orville Clarke would be given an opportunity to hold one of the positions. The CAO advised that Dr. Michael Montrose and Dr. Mojisola Sofade held the positions of Veterinary Officers on contract appointments. He said that Mr. Clarke had been a Veterinary Assistant for a number of years but would have to take the initiative to study veterinary medicine and the DOA would support him. He said that he would recommend Mr. Clarke but he needed to demonstrate the interest. 1824. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the new location for the station in Virgin Gorda after the lease expires 2013. The CAO advised that the station would be relocated to crown land in Long Bay which was east of Nail Bay. He said that he had spoken to an architect and was given some preliminary figures and he hoped to get some seed money to commence the relocation process of the station from church property to crown land. 1825. The Member for the Eighth District enquired about the DOAs position regarding the capturing of wild livestock for consumption. The CAO replied that the DOA had no objection to the capture of wild animals for consumption once the meat was used for domestic purposes. He said that they would take issue if the meat was used for commercial consumption. He explained that the DOA would need to have input to inspect the animals and ensure that they were slaughtered under the prescribed sanitary conditions.
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1826. The Member for the Eighth District asked which departments were involved in the inspection of meats for commercial consumption. The CAO stated that the meats had to be stamped with a food grade ink stamp and a certificate must be issued to accompany every shipment or carcass. He stated that there was an inspection process that took place and an importer must have an import permit to import meat products. He went on to state that the random screening of products was done by the Environmental Health Division. 1827. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked why an abattoir was needed in North Sound if the animals that were caught in Anegada and Virgin Gorda were brought to Tortola. The CAO stated that he met that project in place when he took up duties at DOA and if he had a choice he would not support the project. 1828. The Member for the Third District enquired about the water bills for farmers to which the CAO replied that water bills were the responsibilities of the farmers. 1829. The Member for the First District commended the Minister and the panel and thanked them for the fine job they had done at the DOA, and wished them the best for Farmers Week 2012. 1830. The CAO thanked The Member for the kind words and said he hoped to see all of them at the Farmers Week activities. 1831. The Chairman thanked the panel for appearing before the SFC and sharing the information with Members.

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HEAD 345 Present:

BVI FISHING COMPLEX

Mr. Ronald Smith-Berkeley

Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour (PSNRL)

Mr. Lloyd Williams

Ag. Assistant Manager, BVI Fishing Complex (AgAMBVIFC)

Mrs. Louann Hodge-Smith

Ag. Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour (AgFPONRL)

1832. The Chairman welcomed the panel and asked them to state their names and positions for the record to which they complied. 1833. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked who was the Manager for the BVIFC, and whether the Ag. Asst. Mgr, BVIFC (AgAMBVIFC) was knowledgeable enough to answer the questions. The PSNRL advised that the Manager, BVIFC was Mr. Rick Evans and that he had left the island. 1834. The AgAMBVIFC stated that he had worked at the BVIFC for twenty years and confirmed that he could answer most of the questions. The PSNRL further added that the AgAMBVIFC had acted as Manager, BVIFC on one other occasion for a considerable period of time. The AgAMBVIFC said that the Fishing Complex was subsidised by the government and they were able to purchase and sell fish in the territory at a cheaper rate to maintain a good customer base.

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Subhead 62250 Purchase of Seafood 1835. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired about Subhead 62250 Purchase of Seafood while the Minister for Health and Social Development said that the government had established a Fishing Complex that needed to at least break even, and wondered where the seafood was purchased. 1836. The AgAMBVIFC said that about eighty percent of their purchases were local fish which they sold for $5.00 per pound cleaned. He also said that they did not purchase fish from Santo Domingo in 2011, but had bought about five percent in 2010. 1837. The Member for the Fifth District asked whether they bought other seafood products from local fisherman. The AgAMBVIFC said because of the reduction in revenue they had stopped purchasing lobster from local fisherman and bought salmon and shrimp from a company in Florida. 1838. The Minister for Education and Culture asked how the fishermen received their pay. The AgAMBVIFC said that the fishermen were paid through the Treasury Department, and in the interim they would receive assistance with equipment. 1839. The FS stated that discussions had taken place as to the possibility of the BVIFC paying the fishermen immediately and setting the rates for the products that were sold. He stated that those two factors could make it become more profitable. 1840. The Minister for Natural Resources and Labour said that the Fishing Complex was a major issue that had to be resolved. He referred to a study that he came across in the MNR&L titled Development of the Fisheries 2009. He said that the study had made some important recommendations and gave practical ideas on moving the Fishing Complex forward. He said that any future investment into the Fishing

Complex would have to consider its relocation as a priority. He said that secondly the Fishing Complex had to be a private public partnership and to be successful had to be owned and operated as a corporative by the fishermen themselves, and the

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governments involvement in the Fishing Complex would be reduced over time and eventually diminished. 1841. The Minister for Natural Resources and Labour said that a third issue that needed to be looked at was the fishermen and their fishing methods. He said that they would need to stop depending on reef fish for survival and change their methodologies to fish in deeper waters where fishing would be more sustainable. Fourthly he said a bigger problem was fishing itself. He said that many persons were getting fishing licenses and were employing persons from other countries to do the fishing and were over fishing and killing too many fish in particular areas. He said there needed to be a new approach and the Fishing Complex was centerfold to the whole issue that they needed to confront and make decisions regarding the way forward. 1842. The Minister for Natural Resources and Labour said that the AgAMBVIFC did a very good job under difficult circumstances. He said that the Fishing Complex needed new freezers as storage of the fish was a big problem, and they had sourced some from Trinidad which they hope would keep the fish fresh to be able to sell on the market and compete with the imported fish. He said that hopefully by the next Standing Finance Meeting they would have a much brighter picture to paint about the Fishing Complex. 1843. The Member for the Third District enquired about the substantive post of the AgAMBVIFC and asked why he could not be confirmed. The PSNRL said that his substantive post was Fish Technologist and the changes in the staffing had developed recently but it would be looked into. Subhead 61310 Replacement of Vehicle and Moveable Plant 1844. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian referred to the estimates for $25,000.00 in reference to this Subhead. He queried whether the vehicle or the moveable plant was one and the same. The AgAMBVIFC stated that the moveable plant was the same thing as a vehicle. The only thing was that it was enclosed with a freezer attached for moving stuff. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian further enquired about the
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make of the moveable plant. The AgAMBVIFC stated that they had quotes from Nibbs and they were for a Hyundai and from Burkes Garage which was a Samurai. 1845. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether both of the quotes were in the $25,000.00 range. The AgAMBVIFC stated yes and the cheaper one was the Samurai which was a very small vehicle. 1846. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried the intent of the vehicle. The AgAMBVIFC stated that it would be used on the hot days when they would have to go out of town to make deliveries to keep the fridge at a certain temperature so they could obtain the freshness by the time they reached the customer. 1847. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether deliveries were something that was part of their normal operations. The AgAMBVIFC stated yes. 1848. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether they were replacing a vehicle that they had previously. The AgAMBVIFC stated that they have an open flatbed that they had to throw twice the amount of ice and sometimes when they reached to the location, the ice would have already been melted. Subhead 61220 - Electricity 1849. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried what item in their organisation used a lot of power. The AgAMBVIFC stated that the whole operation used a lot of electricity because of the two ice machines, freezer, a chiller in the freezer that displays the fish and the standing freezer that displays the frozen items plus the air condition of the building. 1850. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether he supported the concept that Fisheries Department needed to be a public or private partnership or if he believed that the Government could make improvements to the Fisheries programmne without involving a private entity.

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1851. The AgAMBVIFC said he thought that the Fishing Complex down the road might have to divert to that public/private entity. He stated that right now there were some minor things needed to be put in place that could boost revenue for the Fishing Complex, one being the flexibility that the Fishing Complex has in order to directly tell the fishermen that they did not need this type of fish because they were overstocked. He stated that if they received a choice of the prime fish, then they could have a better price market for it, and if they had the flexibility of the pricing like the choice fish compared to the other fish then that would help to boost revenue. 1852. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether they received fish and other sea food items on a daily basis. The AgAMBVIFC said that it was daily and that it depended on the weather sometimes. 1853. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried about the most demanding item, whether it was the local pot fish or the fillet fishes. He enquired whether they sold fillet fishes. The AgAMBVIFC stated yes and that the fillet fish was a special item that was sold to the customers. He stated that the customers could request it filleted or they could request it whole or buy it whole and asked that it be filleted at a minimum cost. He further stated that the main fish they received was the local pot fish but the imported salmon was the fastest selling fish. 1854. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether most of their customers were the public, hotels or restaurants. The AgAMBVIFC stated that it was fifty fifty where they have quite a bit of large orders from the hotels and the restaurant but people walking in and purchasing stuff is very regular. 1855. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about what the hotels usually bought. The AgAMBVIFC stated that sometimes they purchased a little bit of everything and a few bought the pot fish for their staff for functions such as buffets etc.

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1856. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether they sold lobster. The AgAMBVIFC stated that they did not on a large scale, but on a small scale. He stated that if there was a mega yacht that came in and needed the pot fish and lobsters, then they would source it from the fishermen especially if they were buying other fishes. He further stated that they might have a small amount of lobsters to include with their order of the fish for the day. 1857. The Member for the Third District enquired whether they had any ice machines up and running. The AgAMBVIFC stated that that was a bit of an issue where on hot days the machine malfunctioned and on regular days it worked as normal. 1858. The Member for the Third District stated that over the years, the Department was constantly being asked to justify its existence and he thought that there was no rational justification for its existence. He stated that you have to determine whether or not the industry could be subsidised and to take a decision as to which form it could be subsidised. He expressed that the Fishing Complex could not be self-sustaining because if they raise their prices on fish to compete with the person on the street, there was going to be a lot of talk for a long time. He further stated that he did not think that it was right to exploit the issue of whether or not self-sustaining is justifiable to handle. He stated that he thought it was a Government policy and it was either we accepted it or get rid of the whole Complex. He said that socially and culturally we owe it to the people of the Territory to make sure that we have a Fishing and Farming industry. 1859. The Member for the Second District queried about the relocation of the Fishing Complex and if the site was identified and begun to develop, along with any plans. 1860. The PSNRL stated that there had been discussions along those lines but was not concrete in terms of plans drawn. He stated that last year around September he had a few days of discussion with the Deputy Chief Planner and they looked at the entire area on how it should be developed. He stated that he would re-visit that with the current Minister.
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1861. The Member for the Second District queried whether they knew that there was an area on Wickhams Cay for fishermen. The PSNRL stated no and that he would certainly investigate. 1862. The Member for the Second District stated that there is a parcel of land close to Village Cay (on Wickhams Cay) which was legally designated for fishermen. He stated that when he was the Minister for NR&L, there was a possibility of moving the Complex to that location. He stated that the concept was that the Fishing Complex would have been moved closer into town, but the building would have been developed in a way which it would have been like a supermarket on the side facing the street so that anyone could walk into the supermarket and the seaward side would be where the fishermen would land their catch. 1863. The PSNRL stated that the Wickhams Cay area was now with the Premiers Office but he would look into it with the current Minister. 1864. The Member for the Second District queried about the term bleeding fish. The AgAMBVIFC stated that that was where you had to cut a specific area on the tail of the larger fish and the throat of the fish so that when the fish flops, the blood comes out as much as possible to maintain a high quality in the flesh itself. 1865. The Chairman thanked the panel for attending the SFC meeting and for answering the questions raised by Members.

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Head 350 Present:

CONSERVATION & FISHERIES

Mr. Ronald Berkeley

Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour (PSNRL)

Mr. Kevin Penn

Acting Chief Conservation & Fisheries Officer, Conservation and Fisheries Department (AgCCFO)

Ms. Heather James

Administrative Officer, Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour (AONRL)

Mrs. Louann Hodge- Smith

Acting Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Natural Resources & Labour (FPONRL)

1866. The Chairman thanked the panel for attending the deliberations, and requested that they state their names and positions for the record. They complied. 1867. The Member for the Second District enquired how the BVI can in keeping its mandate in ensuring that the B.V.I remains as natural as possible as it develops. 1868. The AgCCFO stated that he believed that the Territory should try to put more multistorey buildings to preserve as much as possible the wild areas over at Spooners etc. He stated that we have to realise at some point we cannot continually have everywhere exposed for development. He further said that, by conserving the natural resources that would continue to help the natural environment to survive including the plants, reefs and everything. He further stated that it would also draw the tourists and hopefully we would continue to live that way. He said that in terms of food production, we would have to produce more in terms of the farming of the fishes. He

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stated that he read about the fishes being exploited but he believed that by doing more fish farming we could produce more food. 1869. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether he knew that there were residential areas where trees of a certain size could not be cut down, but at the same time there are roads, houses and drains. He stated that those Estates have been managed well. 1870. The AgCCFO stated yes and said that the ones at Shannon and Belmont are not really large areas in terms of population. He further stated that it would be difficult to maintain the kind of standard that they have now in terms of preserving the trees, and the density is low which is why it is achievable. 1871. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that perhaps they could still encourage low density development even though the sub-divisions may be considered dense. The AgCCFO stated that it was realised that Spooners was not being developed too nicely. He explained that there were a lot of walls, erosions and half the trees were already gone. 1872. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that it spoke towards management being one of the challenges in the Government sub-divisions. 1873. The Member for the Second District interjected and stated that all of the buildings on Spooners Estate were not on the Governments sub-division. He further stated that Government has approved over ninety lots, apart from what is being developed at Spooners. He said that there was nothing on Spooners right now that had to do with Government sale, what now exists are private developments. He said that with the current situation, we must look carefully at this area before more lots are approved. 1874. The Member for the Fifth District stated that she believed that, there needs to be more attention by Town and Country Planning in terms of orderly developments and the foundations are cut while we have the opportunity.
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1875. The Member for the Second District stated that Government had already awarded ninety lots and what would happen now in this case would be development without proper planning. 1876. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that Belmont Estate was an Estate with over 100 lots but if you drive through there you would not recognise a hundred homes but they are physically there. He stated that Conservation and Fisheries is one area of Government that had a mandate to assist in the management of lands. He said that if we took a look at the rest of the BVI where we have undertaken our development, you would see a different picture. He further stated that we have to be able to understand that when Conservation and Fisheries and Planning comes into the picture and renders advice, we should take them whole heartedly and not feel like people were trying to tell us what to do with our land, not recognising down the road that we are trying to preserve and protect the lands for generations to come. He ended by saying that it can happen with proper management. Subhead 62930 Life Guard Services 1877. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that this was one of the largest items in their budget. He enquired about the coverage of the life guards. The AgCCFO stated that they had six life guards. He said that one or two of them were paid from wages and the other five were paid from life guard services and this had been going on for the past five years. He stated that in 2005, they had a budget of $350,000 and at that time they had nine officers but now it has been reduced. 1878. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the reduction. The AgCCFO stated that he did not know why it was reduced. He said that last year they had $250,000 and this year it was reduced but that was one of the reasons they were requesting that this program receives more funding because it saves lives. 1879. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether most of the allocation was wages for the life guards. The AgCCFO stated yes and that they would need to have other expenses such as equipment. He further stated that the $194,000 would not be
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sufficient to pay for all of the life guards that they had on duty. He said that they would be short by approximately $6,000, so that line item would have to be increased just to cover the life guard wages for the year, and it did not cover the expenses of the pool, first aid equipment etc. He said that they would also like to extend the programme to Virgin Gorda because the Baths, Devils Bay was another area that had a number of people drowning. He said that the establishment of the program at the Baths would require at least five to six officers, so that would be almost doubling the present budget. 1880. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried the number of life guards that were locals. The AgCCFO stated that for the last two years they trained one from the UK and Australia and four were all locals. 1881. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether there was any initiative to train more Virgin Islanders as life guards. 1882. The AgCCFO stated yes, if they received funding. He said that one of the issues was whether or not they would like to have the life guards remain under Conservation and Fisheries Department. He said that they would like to have life guards over in Virgin Gorda and on Tortola they needed to have at least three life guards hired and then two persons to train for the $104,000. He stated that if the programme were shifted to the Fire and Rescue Department in Tortola, then some of the firemen could probably be trained. He informed that they were not able to cover Cane Garden Bay which was one of the most popular beaches for the tourist. He stated that in 2010 a guy from the cruise ship drowned and although there were life guards on the beach who went out to save him, he died. He said that the family wanted to sue the Government because they indicated that the life guards did not do their job properly. He further indicated that at the Coroners Inquest at the Magistrates Court, it was determined that the life guards were not at fault because there were red flags up. Consequently, the jury asked that the Department equipped the beach with the proper equipment such as a raised tower which was projected to cost $35,000 so the men could see the crowd better.
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1883. The Member for the Third District queried whether they had liability insurance. The AgCCFO stated that they did not have and would have to seek legal advice. The Member for the Third District further queried whether there was insurance for the life guard programme. The AgCCFO stated no. 1884. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried which beach the life guards are deployed on since there was no coverage in Virgin Gorda and Cane Garden Bay. The AgCCFO said to avoid any possible liability, they decided not to cover Cane Garden Bay and that was going on for the past year and a half. He said that they were at Smugglers Cove and Josiahs Bay. 1885. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether all six life guards go to those two beaches. The AgCCFO said yes. Territorial Member Archibald C.

Christian further enquired if they were there every day or every other day. The AgCCFO stated that they were there daily and on the weekends. 1886. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked whether they considered putting their limited staff on a rotation basis. The AgCCFO stated that if they were to cover Cane Garden Bay, then they would have to have at least four officers and if they were to cover Cane Garden Bay, they would have to neglect Josiahs Bay and Smugglers Cove. He stated that those two beaches were more dangerous for swimming in terms of the currents. 1887. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether one lifeguard on a beach would be better than none. The AgCCFO stated that as a standard, there needs to be a lifeguard. 1888. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that they could put two on Smugglers Cove, two on Josiahs Bay beach and two on Cane Garden Bay. The AgCCFO said yes, but they worked seven days a week and for them to work seven days a week, they would need to have days off, which was why three more officers were needed.
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1889. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian strongly suggested that they seriously consider someone at Cane Garden Bay beach especially when cruise ships were in. He stated that he would prefer to make a sacrifice on one of those beaches to ensure coverage on the most popular beach. He stated that to not have anyone on the most popular beach in his opinion was a disaster waiting to happen. He further stated that he would advocate getting two or more additional persons added because liability insurance was something that was serious and we have been fortunate so far that no one has sued the government. The AgCCFO stated that they would look at the programme. 1890. The Member for the Fifth District queried whether there were signs up, and how big they were in addition to the red flags on the beaches. The AgCCFO stated that all beaches had signage, even those that were not covered by life guards, for instance Trunk Bay and Lambert Beach. He stated that they were about three to four feet. He further said that there were two at Long Bay with one at the main entrance. 1891. The Member for the Fifth District stated that she was aware of the currents at Smugglers Cove, Josiahs Bay and also at a certain end at Brewers Bay and several persons have drowned in the past. The AgCCFO stated that he recalled most of the drownings at the Baths, Virgin Gorda. Subhead 61510 - Office Rent 1892. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried where their accommodations were located presently. The AgCCFO stated that they were located in the Quastisky Building on the second floor and the entire basement. 1893. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether it was the only place they rent. The AgCCFO said yes. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian further enquired whether the lease was expiring or was renewed recently. The AgCCFO stated that they had been there for ten years so far and the last renewal was in 20102011 with Dr. Quincy Lettsome who was the land owner. He said that he asked for a slight increase in his rent.
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1894. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether their lease expired. The AgCCFO stated that they had a five year lease and it was expired because it was from 2010-2011. He said that nothing was finalised as yet. 1895. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether they were on a month to month basis. The AgCCFO stated he thought they were still on the five year renewal. He stated that Mr Lettsome was asking for one thousand dollars extra in addition to what was there now. 1896. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether for a month or year. The AgCCFO stated per month. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that in the absence of their lease expiring, they did not have a lease for a further five years. The AgCCFO said yes and that it was agreed that he would increase and the decision was between the Permanent Secretary and the Housing Authority and a final conclusion was not made as yet. 1897. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether their rent was paid annually or monthly. The AgCCFO said monthly. 1898. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian suggested that they negotiate a better rate than $1000.00 a month. The AgCCFO stated that he was on the lower end because they considered moving to Wickhams Cay and they were like 28-30 sq. ft. per year and his rate was only about $19.00 or $20.00 1899. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether Conservation & Fisheries managed the mooring programme throughout the B.V.I. The AgCCFO stated no. He said that applications came in for people to do moorings and they advised the Ministry whether to grant approval. He further stated that once the Ministry grants approval a lease would be issued to the person applying and that person would be responsible for maintaining them or a private company. He said that the National Parks had some of their own moorings which they managed on their own.

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1900. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether all applications came from the Ministry of Natural Resources & Labour to the Department for approval. The AgCCFO stated yes. 1901. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether they gave a range as to how many would be assigned to a group, individual or company. The AgCCFO stated yes. He said that for some, the moorings are like a potential money owner. He stated that some people have had moorings for a long time and normally when a lease is issued; it is for 25-40 years. 1902. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried the maximum amount of moorings an individual or company could have. The AgCCFO stated that if you were lucky initially and applied you could have gotten a lot. He stated that a company at Norman Island had 16 moorings in their possession. He said that ten to twenty is the normal amount for a person to have. 1903. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried the rate charge for a mooring. The AgCCFO stated that the Government collects an annual fee of $425.00 a year from the lessee. He further said that some people rented the moorings for the yacht and they charged $25.00 per night. 1904. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether the moorings were leased anywhere from one to forty years. The AgCCFO stated that the Governments lease was twenty-five to forty years and maybe there were one or two persons with a ninety-nine year lease. He said the minimum lease was 25 years. 1905. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried who received payment for the moorings. 1906. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if the Ag.CCFO stated that he did not issue Moorings. The AgCCFO stated no, the Ministry does.

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1907. The Member for the Eighth District queried about the rationale for these long leases for moorings. The PSNRL stated that he did not think that there was any particular rationale for that. He said that it was probably just an internal policy and was under the Marine Estate Policy. 1908. The Member for the Eighth District asked how long the policy was in place. The PSNRL stated since 2005, the Marine Estate policy had been done. The AgCCFO stated that the moorings had a stipulation when someone was granted a licence and there were conditions in the lease where the Government could move them. 1909. The Member for the Eighth District stated that if you allow an individual to monopolise these areas for twenty-five years to fifty years, then there is not any opportunity for anyone else. The AgCCFO stated that when people were considering the moorings, they were also considering the possibility that instead of granting them to individuals, they should be granted on a community basis. 1910. The Member for the Eighth District enquired whether there were any restrictions on the number of moorings one person could own. The AgCCFO stated that they have been trying to be as equitable as possible. He stated that when there were several applications for moorings, they tried to distribute equally. 1911. The Member for the Fifth District enquired whether the applications came to Conservation and Fisheries or to the Ministry. The AgCCFO stated to the Ministry. The PSNRL stated that when the applications came into the Ministry, they are forwarded to the Conservation and Fisheries Department and they convene the Technical Review Committee and then come back to the Ministry with a recommendation. 1912. The Member for the Eighth District queried the process for surveying the area and identifying where moorings should be placed. The PSNRL stated that after the application went to the Technical Review Committee, the information that came back would give an indication as to the optimal number of moorings that could be
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accommodated in any given area. He stated that they have also looked at future development so that each person could have an opportunity. 1913. The Member for the Fifth District enquired whether inspections were carried out to ensure that moorings were installed in approved places and whether there were any violations found at any time. The PSNRL stated that people usually complied. 1914. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired the amount of moorings in the B.V.I. The PS stated that he did not have that figure. 1915. The Minister for Health and Social Development requested a listing and who owned them. The PSNRL said certainly. 1916. The Minister for Health and Social Development queried whether there was a fee structure for these moorings. The PSNRL stated yes and he would provide as well. 1917. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired about who was responsible to ensure the continuous safety of those moorings. The AgCCFO stated that the National Parks had the responsibility for those. He further stated that the private ones were under the liability of the persons who they were issued to. He stated that there was a company called More Secure and other people that put in the moorings and maintained them for people. He said that the company and the individuals would hold the liability for those. 1918. The Minister for Education and Culture queried whether they would want to leave something as important as that in the hands of people instead of the Ministry. He suggested that the security of the moorings should rest in the hands of persons at a much higher level because there was a wider problem that we could inherit if the work was not being done properly. The AgCCFO stated that the liability would be great because some people may be wilful. He stated that over on St. Thomas, persons were responsible for installing their own moorings.

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1919. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that he did not think that we should look at how people were doing things and use that as our measuring stick for how we do things. He stated that some of those people who may have permission to use these moorings, if we could say whether they had the financial resources to take care of problems that occurred. The AgCCFO stated that he did not think that could be said with certainty and it would be something to be considered. 1920. The Minister for Education and Culture suggested that it should be the Governments responsibility. 1921. The Minister for Natural Resources and Labour stated that the policy was put in place in 2005-2006 and needed to be reviewed at this point in time. He further stated that there was a well-established protocol for the way in which moorings were actually granted. He said that there was something called the Technical Review Committee which consisted of various individuals from the industry. He further stated that there was a deregulatory side of the Government that deals with it. He stated that since he was a Minister, there had been a number of these recommendations for moorings to be granted. He stated that he did not grant any since being a Minister for the simple reason that the whole policy needed to be reviewed. He stated that he had papers on his desk to give moorings for Brandywine Bay and he did not know of any Government policy that had been decided on for development for Brandywine Bay. He went on to say that the moorings were given out on the impression that it would enhance economic activity in the Brandywine Bay area. He stated that it was a policy decision and not a decision for anyone else to make. He stated that if you go around the Territory you would see situations where there were urgent needs for review. He further stated that the policy was made towards turning over the management of all moorings to the National Parks trust so that all moorings would be managed and monitored. He said that the National Parks Trust owned moorings but they would be the Government agency ultimately responsible for monitoring and managing with respect to the overall safety of the moorings. He said that Government had shied

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away from owning these things so that the liability did not rest on them, but the deregulatory arm for the Government would be the National Parks Trust. 1922. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether they issued temporary moorings. The PSNRL stated no. 1923. The Member for the Second District stated that the mooring is for the protection of the sea bed and not that permission was needed to anchor a boat. He said that the main reason behind mooring was to protect the reefs from the anchor amongst other things. 1924. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that he did not insist that there was anything illegal. He stated that he was simply enquiring whether there was temporary permission given based on what he saw happening. He stated that if people were going to anchor or secure a boat that the environment should be protected. Subhead 60510 Wages Subhead 60300 Authorized Staff 1925. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried the difference between the 15 Beach Wardens in this Subhead and the 1 Beach Warden in Subhead 60300. The AgCCFO stated that the one Beach Warden was under permanent and pensionable status and the other others are non -established. 1926. The Member for the Third District enquired whether all of these posts had been filled. The AgCCFO stated yes. 1927. The Member for the Third District enquired if there were any vacancies. The AgCCFO said no. 1928. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether fines were issued based on the Conservation & Fisheries Protection Act. The AgCCFO stated that the Department only had one legal footing to operate from which was the Fisheries Act of 1997 and the subsequent Fisheries Regulation of 2003 and under those we had the
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fines which could be extended to persons. He stated that for other legislations there was the turtle act. 1929. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether there was anything for the destruction of mangroves. The AgCCFO stated that there were no legislations to that effect. 1930. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether he would recommend that we do that. The AgCCFO stated yes and that they drafted legislations like that but, because of pressure placed on development, the Act was not passed. 1931. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired whether they were installed in such a way so that any boat could be attached to them. The AgCCFO stated no. 1932. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that if a mega yacht wanted to attach to a mooring, it was the Captains responsibility to find out. The AgCCFO stated that he would like to ask for a post to be created on Anegada for a Fisheries Extension Officer. He stated that there was a meeting with the fishermen and that there was a need for that position since Anegada was such a large fishing community. He stated that the position was already created under their head and that they would like a Beach Warden from Anegada to be upgraded to that post. He asked for additional funds of $11,000 and approval for that post to be upgraded. 1933. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the close season for conchs and lobsters. The AgCCFO stated from the 15th of August to the 31st of October. 1934. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the season opened at the beginning of the tourist season. The AgCCFO stated that there was a new regulation that was done in November 2011 because there was a big problem where people couldnt get lobsters and conchs during the closed season. He said that the regulation was amended to have the conchs and lobsters around this time and you could sell them but one could not harvest it from the sea. He further stated that it had not been !"#$%(("%&'%"#$%

public as yet but this new regulation was created to allow people to have conchs all year round. 1935. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired whether persons owning moorings were required to have insurance. The AgCCFO stated that as far as he knew, they were not required to have insurance. 1936. The Premier stated that they did not have any problem granting the position but that they would have to speak with their Minister so that some re-organisation could be done. 1937. The Member for the Third District enquired about the derelict boats, and asked if permission was sought for those boats to be placed in all of the different locations, throughout the territory. He enquired about the boats that sunk and enquired if Conservation and Fisheries were responsible for sunken boats. The AgCCFO stated that the responsibility for derelict boats would come under Ports Authority or the BVI Shipping Registry. He stated that Conservation & Fisheries involvement would be to assist in terms of the oils and paint being released into the environment to damage it. 1938. The Minister for Natural Resources and Labour stated that we were trying to get a comprehensive idea of how best to move forward in order to clean up the environment with respect to these derelict boats. He stated that it was a complex issue and that there were so many responsible agencies that did not have authority because Disaster Preparedness should also be involved. He stated that it was something that we as a Government had to take a comprehensive legislation to deal with the more complex aspect of this situation. 1939. The Member for the Third District enquired whether Conservation & Fisheries advised where derelict boats go in the ocean for disposal. He queried about the boats that sunk and asked whether they were considered viable artificial reefs or if they became nuisances.

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1940. The AgCCFO stated that few of the boats had been placed in deep waters beyond Peter Island in depths of 2000-4000ft so the usefulness of those could not be assessed. He said that the ones that were placed in waters about 30ft were reported as being good for fish aggregating devices and they had proven to be homes for fishes and were good fishing areas. He stated that there was one or two of those boats on the north side of the island between Tortola and Anegada where the boats attracted a lot of fish and that it was good for fishing and diving. He said that there were a number of those vessels at Baughers Bay because of the hurricane and as far as he knew there was work done to remove those vessels in that area but the cost would be one million dollars. He further stated that there were a few vessels in Paraquita Bay that could be removed easily but there would be a cost to remove those and a few at West End, Sea Cows Bay and Beef Island. 1941. The Member for the Third District enquired if we had access to water depths of over 2000ft if we could not dispose of some of those vehicles, provided they were stripped of their hazardous materials. The AgCCFO stated that it would be better for us to

recycle those vehicles for steel because there is the market for those and it would be better to recycle for the whole environmental issue. 1942. The Chairman thanked the panel for coming and for answering the questions and concerns raised by Members.

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HEAD 360 Present:

LABOUR DEPARTMENT

Mr. Ronald Berkeley Mrs. Janice Rymer Mrs. Stephanie Williams Mrs. Louann Hodge-Smith Mrs. Gloria Rhymer

Permanent Secretary/MNRL Ag. Labour Commissioner Deputy Labour Commissioner Ag. Finance and Planning Officer Accounts Officer

1943. The Chairman welcomed the Ag. Labour Commissioner and her team to SF and asked that they state their names and positions for the record and they complied. 1944. AgLC stated that she was reassigned to the Labour Department from the MNR&L on 19th December 2011 to act as LC and she thanked Minister for NR&L for the confidence shown in her. She was able to find a group of Officers at the Labour Department who is willing to work and for that she thanked them. 1945. The AgLC further stated that with the passage of the Labour Code 2010 they have secured a document to guide the Department. The document will inform what is to happen as it relates to labour administration in the Territory. During 2011 the

Department collected revenue totaling $5,260,070.00 and processed 10,958 work permits (new, renewal, temporary, emergency and self employed). They are

committed to changing the lens to which the public views them as a work permit processing Department. Their aim is to strengthen and enforce public and private capacity by providing effective and efficient services while delivering harmonious labour relation between employee and employer.

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1946. The Department can only be as efficient as there are officers to carry out the work of the department especially as mandated by the labour code. The staff complement of the department remains inadequate. There are vacancies in the employment services, labour relations, labour protection and research units, which they are working with the HRD to address. As a way forward, they will need to put systems in place to ensure the advancement of the department and therefore they submit for consideration and approval additional revenues needed for these initiatives. 1947. The AgLC referred to Subhead 65400 Office Improvement and Relocation and stated that the amount allocated for the 2012 budget is $81,000.00; the quotation received from Island Services is $194,333.77 which gives a difference 113,333.77. This reconfiguration is for both floors which will group officers according to their job functions and also include space for the employment services unit which will focus on the working and training needs of job seekers throughout the territory. This request represents phase 2, wherein phase 1 represented the acquisition of space formally occupied by the Immigration Department. 1948. They are requesting a subhead from which uniforms can be purchased in the amount of $20,722.40. This request is in keeping with the restructuring of the department and also with what is the standard for other customer service based departments such as immigration, customs, civil registry etc. It presents a professional image to the public and the staff will become walking billboards. Employees would feel a sense of unity because having a uniform will have a positive impact on peoples behaviour and boost morale. In addition, having a uniform help customers identify officers from the Labour Department. Their request is for an additional sum of $134,056.17 to cover shortfall in amount already allocated for reconfiguration and uniform for staff. As they prepare to move to an efficient and transparent Department, it is their commitment to provide for the improvement of the administration of labour, taking into account applicable international standards, prescribing minimum conditions of employment, a system for labour administration, settlement of disputes and observance of labour laws while maintaining regional and international standards.
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1949. The Member for the Third District sought clarity on the aforementioned monies collected and the work permits issued and asked what year the figures represent. He further asked if one applicant applied for more than one permit. The AgLC stated that the figures collected were for 2011 and that the amount would present new, renewal, temporary, emergency and self employed work permits. 1950. The Member for the Third District asked how many work permit holders are there in the Territory. The AgLC stated that the Department is currently experiencing issues with the JDE system where they are unable to retrieve information and further stated that the actual amount could be made available to Members at a later time. 1951. The Member for the Eighth District sought clarity on the breakdown of the work permits issued. The AgLC stated that that information would be provided at a later time due to IT issues currently being experienced. 1952. The Member for the Third District asked if they have a rough idea as to the number of people in the Territory that are employed and how many are work permit holders. The AgLC stated that there was a recent upgrade to the JDE and is working with a Consultant on accessing that information that The Member for the Third District is seeking. She further stated that she will provide that information in due course. 1953. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked the AgLC to give a true and fair picture of the Labour Department. The AgLC stated that having been reassigned to the Department for the past six (6) weeks there are a number of issues. One that was blatant when she was reassigned was the number of backlogs of renewals that were not processed for the month of September. A system is now in place where applications will be processed according to the dates received and the backlog is cleared to December 2011. She further stated that the staff complement is inadequate. Inspectors are not able to go out and conduct inspections based on the various complaints because they are limited in that area. They are working with HR to increase the labour inspectors. Members of the public do not always provide the necessary documentations to complete the application and the process calls for all
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supporting documents to accompany applications.

The general public has been

reminded through public address announcements to submit supporting documents that accompany the check sheet. In addition, the reconfiguration of the Department is phase II and there is a need to move quickly to reconfigure and higher additional staff. With the assistance of the PWD they were able to break through a wall in the filing area that would offer more access to the files. 1954. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked why an applicant needs to remain at the Labour Department for most of the day in order to have a work permit processed. 1955. The AgLC stated that she is reviewing all the system and there is an officer in the Department preparing a flow chart and tracking the various applications so that the backlog could be identified. Persons who collect work permits are given an

appointment and it is her opinion that persons should come to the Department and receive immediate service. She further stated that there are certain days for the processing of the various work permits. She wants to look at the system where when a person comes to the Department regardless of what processing day it is, they would be able to receive service since it is time loss to have them off the job too long. In addition, the Ag.LC stated that they are asking for additional Accounts Officers to assist with the processing. She is working with Treasury and HR on that initiative. 1956. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked why a person normally spends a whole day at the Labour Department just to pickup a work permit. The AgLC stated that they should not spend all day since they are given an appointment between 9-12 and 12-3. However, at this time, there is only one Cashier and has asked for

assistance from Treasury and HR. 1957. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if there is an appointment system, what is the line to the Labour Department. The AgLC stated that the lines are long because persons are coming to collect various work permits.
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1958. The Minister for Health and Social Development then asked what happens when an employee is given an allotted time to pick up a renewal. The AgLC stated that when a person arrives they are put on a list and they are processed in that order. 1959. The Member for the Third District asked what happens when someone who has an 11:00 a.m. oclock appointment comes at 10:00 a.m. The AgLC stated that it all depends; if the person who has a scheduled appointment is not there then the person who is there would be processed at the time when they arrive. 1960. The Member for the Fifth District asked if the process could be shorter. For example if someone who is there to pickup a permit and another is there to apply for a work permit will they be placed on the same list. The AgLC stated the persons who are collecting work permits are processed with another employee and they do not have to sign in. 1961. The Member for the Second District asked if the Department processes 40-50 work permits a day based on the figures submitted. The AgLC stated yes. 1962. The Member for the Second District stated that he listened to the other members questions and asked if the Department need additional staff to adequately accommodate the influx of persons coming to the Department. The AgLC stated that the Department continues to be understaffed. One of the areas she is looking at is how the whole area is processed and she would like to be able to make things easier that is why she requested an additional Accounts Officer and two Customer Service Representative to help persons coming to the Department. This will make the process easier and they will be able to produce more. 1963. The Member for the Second District asked if the Accounts Officer post will be a new position. The AgLC stated that she is currently working with the Accountant General to get assistance in assigning an Accounts Officer at the Labour Department. 1964. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian referred to the Senior Labour Officers and asked what their functions are. The AgLC stated that the positions would be !"#$%(#)%&'%"#$%

reclassified and assigned to the Employment Services Unit. The Unit will be staffed with an Employment Manager, placement and renewal officer. They will also have the Labour Relations Unit with Officers for disputes and inspections, a Research Unit, labour Protection Unit, Surveillance etc. these units and positions are in conformation with the Labour Code of 2010. 1965. Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian asked if the description in the budgetary notes will be reclassified. The AgLC stated that the notes will be reclassified and they are working with her internal HR and HRD to have it done. 1966. Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian asked if the Department needs additional staff even with the classification of Officers. The AgLC answered yes since all the posts are not filled. 1967. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if an employer ever won a dispute at the Labour Department and what is the function of the DLC. 1968. The AgLC stated that it is her understanding that employers have been favourable. She further stated that the Deputy would act in the absence of the LC and is the head of Operations. The DLC stated it is her understanding that the DLC is to oversee the operations and daily functions of the Department. 1969. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if DLC was responsible for gathering information on the new Labour Code is fully implemented. The DLC stated that she was the Secretariat on the Labour Code and all provisions of the Labour Code have been implemented since August 4th 2010. 1970. The Member for the Second District enquired about the Regulations for the Labour Code and employee handbook. The DLC stated that they are currently working with the AG Chambers on getting the regulations in place. She further stated that the handbook is completed and was given out.

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1971. The Member for the Third District sought clarity on the two months backlog of renewals and asked why there was a backlog of work permits renewal and when is a person required to submit a request for renewal and when can they reasonably anticipate getting it back. The AgLC stated that a person is expected to submit documentation for a renewal three weeks prior to the expiration of their work permit and they are expected to get it back before their current work permit expires. It is her observation that there is a need for additional personnel to work in the area of renewal of work permits. 1972. The Member for the Third District stated that is not acceptable and asked what the recommendations are going forward, especially when other things are relying on the expiration of work permits. The AgLC stated that she is looking at the processes and the flow chart will inform where the backlog is. When she arrived in December most of the staff was on annual leave in December. 1973. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked what the extent of the back log was. The AgLC stated that when she came to the Department in December 2011 there were applications in the Labour Department received during the month of September 2011 that were not processed. 1974. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if only application for the month of December is to be processed. The AgLC answered that at the moment they were able to clear September through November and the renewals currently in the Office are those that were submitted in the month of December 2011. 1975. The Member for the Third District asked what is the process for screening an applicant for renewal. The AgLC stated that processing officers ensures that all supporting documents are received that include 1st and 2nd schedules, cover letter from the employer and trade licence.

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1976. The Member for the Third District stated that it would seem that it is a matter of getting around to those particular applications since they could be done readily. The AgLC stated that being understaffed is a major issue. 1977. The Member for the Third District asked how many more personnel she need. The AgLC stated that under the employment unit there is a need for two additional members of staff. 1978. The Member for the Third District asked about the vacancies in the Department. The AgLC stated that there are fifteen (15) vacancies 1979. The Member for the Third District asked how many of the positions out of a staff complement of twenty four (24) are vacant. The AgLC stated that the DLC is calculating the figures for the vacancies and will be presented to Members shortly. 1980. The Minister for Education and Culture referred to the policy where work permits and drivers licensed are married to an extent that they expire at the same time and asked if the Labour Department was consulted on the initiative. The DLC stated to her knowledge the Labour Department was not consulted. 1981. The Member for the Third District stated that Departments worked on the initiative together. 1982. Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian asked if a person who possesses an exemption can work for more than one person. PSMNRL answered yes and they could also work for more than one person on a work permit but with conditions. Even the exemption is granted and they are comfortable where they are they would remain. 1983. The Minister for Education and Culture referred to the Labour Department estimated expenditure for 2012 and asked if there are other ways in which revenue could be increased within the Labour Department.

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1984. The AgLC stated that there is a committee in place to address concerns such as what Minister asked. The Labour Department has asked to affix a 3% increase on various work permits. The highest a person would pay from is $25 and up. That information would be able to be to the MNRL in short order. 1985. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if any comparisons were made, with what is being charged in the various categories of work permits, between other jurisdictions. The AgLC stated that it is her understanding that it has been done. There is information from other OTs. 1986. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if the AgLC was at liberty to say what the disparity is. The AgLC stated that they have the information and they will take a look at it and make an analysis. 1987. The Minister for Education and Culture asked how did they come up with the 3% and how do they know that it is 3% that is needed for the increase. The PSMNRL answered that when he came into the Ministry in May 2011 he met a Committee directed by Cabinet to increase the fees by 3%. 1988. The Minister for Education and Culture asked the PSMNRL if he has any knowledge of the background of the request to increase by 3%. The PSMNRL answered no. 1989. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if having knowledge of what other jurisdictions charge is a 3% increase is sufficient and if at the end of the Analysis. The PSMNRL stated that he was not privy to the information collected from other jurisdiction. 1990. The AgLC stated that at the end of their analysis and based on what other OTs are doing, they would be able to make that determination. 1991. The Minister for Education and Culture sought clarity on the proposed new cost of a work permit that is currently $1,000. The AgLC stated that what they are proposing

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is to have ranges of ten (10) increments, affix a 3% and come up with an overall revenue projection. 1992. The Minister for Education and Culture asked based on the proposed drafted categories, how much will a work permit for someone who is making $25,000 or over cost. The AgLC stated that she would defer the question to the DLC who has been working in the area longer than she has. 1993. The DLC referred to the fee structure and stated that when they did the proposal they found that persons making $25,000 and up were already at a 4% cap (already paying the $1,000). A decision was made to start from that range and move up since the higher the wages go the higher the percentage should go. 1994. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if someone is making $100,000 per annum, how much would the work permit be under the proposed fee structure. The DLC stated that $4,200 per annum. 1995. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if it would be an increase of $4,200 on that work permit. The DLC answered yes. 1996. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that there seems to be a perception or feeling that when an employee logs a complaint about their employer their concerns are not addressed. He asked if it is a fair assessment. The AgLC stated that she could only address for the time she has been to the Department. They certainly receive complaints, employees have come to the office and if an employee felt threatened they would be directed to other areas for assistance. That is her experience since she was appointed to the Labour Department. 1997. Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian referred to Subhead 65300 Purchase of Vehicle and asked if the funding is for a replacement of an existing vehicle. The AgLC answered yes, the current vehicle for the Department is twelve (12) years old that was recently boarded.
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1998. Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian asked what is the function of the Departmental vehicle. The AgLC answered the mandate is for inspectors to conduct inspections and this takes up a lot of their time. 1999. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if there are other Labour Departments on the Sister Islands and how the Inspectors get around. The AgLC stated that there is an office in Virgin Gorda with a vehicle available at the Inspectors disposal. 2000. The Minister for Education and Culture referred to persons on Anegada and Jost Van Dkye and enquired about the procedure for those persons on the aforementioned islands who have to make applications. The AgLC stated that it is her understanding that persons from the Sister Islands comes to Town to conduct business including applications for work permits. The department intends to travel to the Sister Islands to provide services. 2001. The Minister for Education and Culture referred to the proposed increases for work permits and asked when the exercise will be completed. The AgLC stated that they are working to submit the information to the Ministry next week. 2002. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if once completed if it will be time for the Ministers to do their part. The AgLC answered yes. 2003. The Member for the Third District referred to his earlier question in regards to the number of vacancies in the Labour Department. The AgLC answered that the total number of vacancies is ten (10), 2004. The Member for the Third District asked if the vacancies were ten out of what staff complements. The AgLC answered ten out of twenty one. She further clarified that the current composition of staff and vacancy as it relates to the current structure is five. However, the composition as it relates to the labour code would be ten (10 vacancies).
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2005. The Member for the Third District asked if there is a legal mandate to staffing since the Officers would be responsible for specific areas of the labour code. The AgLC answered yes. 2006. The Member for the Third District asked to specifically state what positions would be needed to fill. The AgLC answered Inspection, Safety and Health, Statistical Unit, Labour Relations, Dispute, Labour Protection and Employment Services. 2007. The Member for the Fifth District asked if interviews are being conducted for the vacancies. The AgLC stated that the Labour Department is working with the HR Manager in the Ministry and HRD to fill posts. They have been actively finalising one post in the area of Employment Services Manager. 2008. The Member for the Fifth District stated that it is interesting that the Labour Department is understaffed and that is the department that is responsible for placement. 2009. The Member for the Third District asked the AgLC to explain the reason why the Labour Department is not able to handle employee disputes timely. The PSMNRL stated that all of the disputes that came they have dealt with, with very good results. 2010. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that he wishes the AgLC all the best in her new job. As an employer he has been in contact with her and she has dealt with his matter professionally and congratulated her for her professionalism. 2011. The Member for the Fifth District Thanked theAglC for coming and giving a presentation and wish all the best for her and the staff and hope she receives additional employees so that the functions could be carried out in the way she wishes. 2012. The Chairman thanked the AgLC and her team for coming to the SFC and answering questions posed by Members.

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HEAD 370 Present:

LAND REGISTRY

Mr. Ronald Berkeley Mrs. Erica Smith-Penn Mr. Kelvin Dawson Mrs. Louann Hodge-Smith

Permanent Secretary/MNRL Chief Registrar of Lands Registrar of Lands Ag. Finance and Planning Officer

2013. The Chairman welcomed the Chief Registrar of Lands and her team to SF and asked that they state their names and positions for the record. They complied. 2014. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that he has spent a number of years (20 years) doing business with the Land Registry Department and has high regards for the service that they render to the Public. Land matters in this country are sensitive and personal and over the years he has hinted and it was agreed that it is time for the registers in these islands to be computerised for security and accessibility by law firms, real estate etc. In this world with technology many of us want to be in our offices where we could get direct data from Land Registry. 2015. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if there is a point in time when the Department will consider computerising the registers to the benefit of the public. 2016. The CRL stated that they are in the consideration stage and the DoIT is to deliver the work that they were doing so that Minister would have the recommendation to carry the project forward in terms of making a recommendation to Cabinet. The last time they appeared before the SFC they indicated that in a period of two years, they would hope to deliver the computerised land registers and a fully functional computerised system where internal and external customers would be able to access the land registers and services through internet base services. At the end of that two year
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period without saying specifically, since those decisions would have to be made in 2012 they would hope to roll out the new initiatives. 2017. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that it is fair to say that the fees are considered nominal and asked if there are plans to revisit the fees in terms of having them increased; but still making them affordable to the public. 2018. The CRL stated that it is a subject that has been visited on numerous occasions by current and previous management of the Land Registry and are in the final stages. They took materials from resources and researched the sister OTs in the region and the UK and did extensive comparison that will be presented by Minister, in due course, for the HoA to make a recommendation. It is a matter of high priority to go before the Minister for further consideration. 2019. The Minister for Natural Resources and Labour asked the CRL to give a brief synopsis of why it is taking so long for the Land Registry to be computerised. 2020. The CRL stated that one of the requirements of a robust and cutting edge IT system requires the support of knowledgeable staff and the right numbers who would be able to support the system when it gets online. When the review was done in 2010 it was realised that the Department did not have the required number of staff to put things in place; therefore, there was a need to get the staff complement in order and when that occurred they were able to do some of the work they couldnt do before and outsource the rest. They have been able to back up the paper registers from a historical

standpoint through scanning because funding was provided. A number of paper registers for non-belonger land holders and power of attorneys (that were log books) were scanned and at the click of a button information is available. Before that persons had to go into a vault to leaf through pages. One of the concerns they had

consistently across the board was if there was not enough man power to support the system there would be serious concerns about being able to deliver when they have the hardware and the application fully functional.
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2021. Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian asked about the fees collection for 2011. The CRL stated that $51,357 was the fees collected for 2011. The CRL stated that she wishes to express the shortfall for two pieces of equipment that needs to be properly topped up from funds that exists. The amount is $4,683.68 that they wish to shift to three subheads. 2022. The FS stated that the CRL should state for the record what the changes are and it will be reviewed at a later date. He further stated that moving funds from PE (staffing) is something that should be avoided. 2023. The CRL stated there are two positions that are being advertised and the $4,683.68 required must be looked at as a saving and she wishes for $168.68 to be transferred to Subhead 61120-Books and Subscription. $767.00 to be transferred to Subhead

61310 Replacement of Vehicle and for the purchase of a new copier she wishes to transfer $3750.00, to Subhead 61320- Equipment (Major) previously mentioned. 2024. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if the Department has a Bailiff. The CRL answered that they have not been able to fill the post. 2025. The Member for the Third District enquired about the number of vacancies within the Department. The CRL answered that there are two (2) vacancies. 2026. Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian asked if the post of Bailiff was filled, what the function would be and who currently performs the function. The CRL stated that the Bailiff would locate and serve on individuals the notices of various proceedings on behalf of the Department. Currently they rely on an officer who fulfills a number of other duties within the Registry. 2027. The Member for the Third District asked if she could call on the Bailiffs from the court. The CRL stated that they have done so in the past, but the nature and volume of documents makes it difficult and it challenging. Although the post is labeled Bailiff,
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to make up the total

that Officer will not be doing those services; but will be assisting in the day to day operations of the Registry. 2028. The Member for the Third District asked if Land Registry would be the Department to call if someone has a boundary dispute. The CRL stated that under Section 17 of the Registered Land Ordinance it is a legitimate reason to call the Department to have that boundary determined and declared. 2029. The Member for the Third District asked if she meant that the Government Surveyors places points. CRL stated that the Survey Department would assist and they would determine where the boundary should be based on historical records. According to law the service for any type of survey fees is suppose to be at the current survey levied; however, the practice in the past has been to waive the fees. That practice will be discontinued and persons will be required to pay the fee to determine the exact line of a boundary. 2030. The Member for the Third District outlined fictitious boundary dispute scenario to the CRL and asked how it could be reconciled. The CRL stated that the fictitious scenario is one that should not happen. The requirement in the Law is that any surveying which is carried out, the owners of the adjoining property are required to receive notice from the Surveyor and the Chief Surveyor must be informed of the notices being served. The persons must be present or waive the notice. 2031. The CRL further stated that an individual using land that is not theirs, according to the register, is within his or her right to file an application under the law for adverse possession in the Land Registry for protection to protect that right. 2032. The Member for the Third District asked if it is a matter that could be brought to the Land Registry Department. He further asked if the Land Registry is functioning well. The CRL stated that there is always room for improvement and they seek to improve the efficiency of the Land Registry. initiatives.
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They have benefitted from a number of

2033. The Member for the Third District noted the increase in the human resources of the Department and also noted that Mr. Dawson is back. The Member for the Third District congratulated Mr. Dawson on the completion of his studies and further stated that he hopes that he (Mr. Dawson) remains in the Public Service. The RL thanked The Member for the Third District for his remarks. 2034. The Member for the Second District enquired about the percentage of land, and started that the Territorys land is now in the hand of the expatriates. The CRL stated that she did not have the information readily available. When the computerised system is fully functioning then she will be able to give more detail information such as what the Member asked. 2035. The Member for the Fifth District referred to Subhead 60400 Allowances and asked what lawyer allowance is. CRL stated that it is a Lawyer allowance paid to the CRL and the RL and any other persons appointed as lawyers in the public service. 2036. The Member for the Fifth District enquired about how long the RL has been back from his studies. The RL indicated that he has been back at the Registry since October 2011. 2037. The Member for the Fifth District welcomed the RL back from his studies and further stated that she is happy to see that he is back to continue to give the good service that he is accustomed. 2038. The Member for the Fifth District also thanked the CRL and her team and wished them all the best. 2039. The Chairman thanked the CRL and her team for coming before the SFC and sharing information. She also congratulated Mr. Dawson on his return from his studies and extended best wishes to the staff.

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HEAD 380 Present:

SURVEY DEPARTMENT

Mr. Ronald Berkeley Mr. Winston Donovan Mr. Dwayne Nibbs Mrs. Louann Hodge-Smith

Permanent Secretary/MNRL Chief Surveyor Deputy Chief Surveyor Ag. Finance and Planning Officer

2040. The Chairman welcomed the Chief Surveyor and his team to SF and asked that they state their names and positions for the record to which they complied. 2041. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that his experience with the Survey Department is similar to the Land Registry Department. He regards it as one of the Department in Government that functions well and provides a very valuable service to the Public. He feels that with the advent of technology, the Survey Department is being short changed. The last aerial map was done in 2002 and asked if there are plans to have the aerial maps of the BVI. The CS stated that they submitted for funding to get the project on the way. It is currently at the Ministry and that is the last hurdle to cross to get it finalised. 2042. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if his request is within the proposed 2012 budget estimates and what is the estimate. The CS stated that the estimate received from the proposed company is $222,000.00. The PSMNRL further stated that the information in regards to the estimate could be found in the Capital budget. 2043. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if there is a full complement of staff or if there are vacancies. The CS stated that there are three vacancies. Interviews were conducted last week and they expect to continue the interviews next week. There is a Survey Assistant post vacant and it is hoped that an existing staff who is
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currently a temporary employee will be appointed to that post. The other positions are two (2) Chainman and one (1) cleaner. 2044. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if there are any members of staff currently on study leave, what they are studying and how long the course of study is. The CS stated one (1) person is currently pursuing Land Surveying and Mapping Science at the University of East London in England. The period of study is for three (3) years. 2045. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if improvement is expected with the aerial mapping and the Officers return from study leave. The CS stated that it should make a big difference. In addition to the Officer on study leave, one of the post of Chainman would be renamed CAD Technician. However, when he observed the draft budget, he noted that post remains a non-established post. They requested that the post be transferred from non-established to an established post so that it would be more attractive for a High School or College graduate. He further stated that if that post is not transferred to establish, there would be no promotional outlet for the person who may be appointed to the post, which means that that Officer could be temporary for an extended period of time. 2046. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian sought clarity on Mr. Dwayne Nibbs position. The CS answered that Mr. Nibbs is currently the DCS. 2047. The Member for the Second District asked which company does the aerial mapping for the Country. The CS stated that the company that did the previous mapping was called Blooms Aerial Films; however, since then it has restructured and renamed Blooms and is located in the UK. 2048. The Member for the Third District asked when was the last mapping done. The CS answered that it was last updated in 2002; but the actual information was delivered in 2003.

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2049. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if the Tsunami instrument is installed. The CS stated that the Tsunami instrument was installed and in operation for a year and it encountered minor problems. They contacted DDM, who were interested in gathering the information for the Puerto Rico Seismic Center and one of the technicians who regularly came to Anegada to check the seismic monitors was asked to look at the data collected at the Survey Department as well as infrastructure at the Fishing Complex. The Technician stated to them that the data is coming in too rapidly and is not portraying the tidal data accurately. Accordingly, he (Technician) made recommendations where they could help the DDM and Survey Department to combine information and send to Puerto Rico wirelessly. 2050. The Member for the Fifth District asked if the Tsunami instrument was not fixed. The CS answered that the instrument requires additional hardware to make it operational. He further stated that the Technician has not returned from Puerto Rico since last year. 2051. The Member for the Fifth District asked if the required hardware is expensive. The CS stated that it costs a few thousand dollars, what he gathered from the Technician they would have tried to source the hardware from their contact in the US and install them at no cost to the Government. 2052. The Member for the Third District asked if this is the equipment the CS was trying to get installed at Chalwell. The CS answered that it is a total different project which is a CORS (Continuously Operation Reference Stations) system that has to do with GPS information. 2053. The Member for the Third District asked if the CORS system is up. The CS stated that the system is not up; they encountered some issues with the landowner in regards to having access to the site and structures that the historical Society is interesting in preserving.

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2054. The Member for the Third District asked if the Department wasnt looking to acquire property at sometime ago in the past. The CS stated that, that may have been with the previous CS; but he recalled hearing about additional sites that were being looked at for the installation of the station. 2055. The Member for the Fifth District stated that during the last SFC 2010, she noted that he mentioned that efforts were being made to attract persons to be interested in land surveying and asked if anyone showed interest. The CS stated that there are currently two Trainee Surveyors. There are only two Trainees on the established post and he encourages them to attend HLSCC to enroll in a short course to enhance their academic skills in addition to the training at Survey. The Officer who is currently at the University of East London attended and was enrolled in the short courses and it was to her advantage while pursuing the Bachelors programme. 2056. The Member for the Fifth District asked if the Officer will return to the Department upon completion of their studies and further enquired about the Trainee Surveyor in the Department. The CS answered yes, she will return to the Department. He further stated that the Officer was not a Trainee Surveyor; her substantive post is Clerical Officer. However, she showed interest in the field and took advantage of the training opportunity. In regards to the Officer who is currently the Trainee Surveyor he stated that the young man was appointed to the Department over a year and they have submitted a succession plan to incorporate all staff as best as they could. When the Training Division asks for training priority areas they would look at the areas where the staff could be trained. In addition, there is another Officer within the Department who also made application on three occasions for training to do Land Surveying; but he was not successful due to the unavailability of funds. 2057. The Member for the Fifth District asked if the Officer is working in the Department. The CS answered yes. Over the time he has been there, he has improved. He went to Florida and did a Drafting Course, attended the Chartered Management Institute at HLSCC and he is now interested in pursuing his studies.
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2058. The Member for the Third District asked how many Licensed Surveyors are there in the Territory. The CS stated that there are ten (10) Licensed Surveyors, namely: Local Surveyors are: Mr. Burton Chalwell Mr. Michael Adamson Mr. Mark Downing Mr. Michael Potter Mr. Dwayne Nibbs Mr. Samuel Smith Mr. Winston Donovan 2059. The Licence Surveyors who are expatriates are: Mr. Alvin Lee Ms. Christine Elisa Mr. Otis Baesden 2060. The Member for the Fifth District stated that she hopes that the Officer is successful in his request for study leave and he should be encouraged. 2061. The CS stated that after the Officer returned from his studies in Florida he has been without an established post. The Officer has been in the Survey Department since 1997 as a CAD Trainee and he would like to have him regularised before he proceeds on study leave. It is hoped that he would be appointed to the post of CAD

Technician; however, the approved post is a non established post and he is an established officer.
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2062. The Member for the Sixth District asked if the Officer has no named post. The CS stated that he is still considered a CAD Trainee. 2063. The Member for the Fifth District asked if the Officer has been a Trainee from 1997. The CS answered yes it was his initial post. However, they requested that one of the posts of Chainman be reclassified as CAD Technician since that would be in line his qualifications and experience in the Department. 2064. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if Lindy DeCastro was one of the first Surveyors in the Territory. The CS stated that as far as he could remember Mr. Lindy DeCastro was one of the first Surveyors in the territory. He further stated when he joined the service there were two older Surveyors: Harold Llewellyn and Lindy DeCastro. 2065. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that it is one of the professions in the BVI that has, traditionally, had more locals than expatriates. The CS was

encouraged to attract as many locals to be licensed surveyors as possible. 2066. The Member for the Third District asked who is on the Board of Survey. The CS stated that Mr. Burton Chalwell, the Chief Registrar of Lands, Gregory Hodge, Mr. Dwayne Nibbs, Mr. James Morshead and the CS as Chairman. He further stated that since coming to the Department the Board of Survey has changed many times and with each change members would change. 2067. The Member for the Third District asked if there are still disputes between the Board of Survey and clients. The CS stated that on occasions there are times when a client and a Surveyor would not agree over requested payment for the completion of the work etc. 2068. The Member for the Third District asked the CS to walk him through the process of land subdivision. The CS stated that the landowner would contact a land surveyor to give information on the block, parcel number and location or it may be a case where it has to be partitioned (members of families has to get specific shares of the land) or it !"#$%(*(%&'%"#$%

may be a case where a landowner wants to subdivide the total parcel to sell or transfer. Based on the information and discussion between the land surveyor and the landowner, the Surveyor would visit the Surveyor Department to obtain copies of the Cadastral Map to get the location of the parcel, then to Land Registry to search the record to see who is the legal owner of the land since it would be a part of the submission to Town and Country Planning since the person submitting would be the applicant. If that person is not the applicant then the owner would have to give letter of non-objection if a family member wants to conduct the survey on the property. Having had information, the Surveyor would design, if its a full subdivision, the lots and the roads that would service the lots to the appropriate size. 2069. The Town and Country Planning Regulation 2004 speak to the size lots one could own whether on steep or flat land. After the Surveyor has gone through all of that, he would be in a position to speak to his client to agree with what has been developed, they would then make application to Town and Country Planning for subdivision approval, which also goes to Planning Authority for approval/rejection and then to the Survey Department for review. If the Survey Department finds that the plan is acceptable (no encroachment or other boundary issues), based on the Land Survey Ordinance, it is then approved by the Chief Surveyor. The landowner could now make application to the Registrar of Lands to build or subdivide. It would be resubmitted to the Survey Department where it would be documented on the Cadastral Index Map where the lots and the plan would then be given official parcel numbers and sent back to Land Registry where the staff would create folders etc. and reregister the names back to the original landowner and that should be the final hurdle. 2070. The Member for the Third District stated that throughout the process he did not hear any mention about the Survey Department notifying adjacent landowners. The CS stated that he did not mention the process of the fieldwork; but there are a number of things that are done before the landowner and the Surveyor meet.

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2071. The Member for the Third District asked if there is no notice being served to the adjacent landowners, in his opinion, one can encroach on someone elses property and no one will know for years. The CS stated that the Land Surveyor Ordinance speaks to serving of notice. The notice in the Ordinance also serve to avoid trespassing on other persons land, so notice is also served to avoid the offence of trespassing or if there are tracks to be cleared. 2072. The Member for the Third District asked how you serve a notice on landowners who do not live in the Territory. The CS stated that yes; however, at the Survey Department they check the surveying plans to ensure there has not been any encroaching and advise the Surveyor if that is the case. If it needs to be resolved then both landowners must agree on the new boundary lines. The Ordinance does not speak to what should be done if a landowner cannot be found; however, he advices the Surveyors to put their intentions in the news papers for two weeks. 2073. The Member for the Third District stated that he does not believe stating the notice in the newspapers is practical giving the current means of communication and whether the CS consider the fact that land owners may not be in a position to acquire or read. 2074. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that there is a practice of notifying people that this work will be done. The CS stated that the Surveyor should try his utmost to find someone who is responsible for the land. 2075. The Member for the Third District asked what recourse a person has once the surveying has been done, approved and it has been later discovered that encroachment was committed. The CS stated that it could be classified as a boundary dispute issue that could be resolved while engaged in meetings with the Registrar of Lands. 2076. The Member for the Third District stated that he is not speaking about a claim but about survey boundaries that encroaches on other persons properties that have been officially approved illegally. The CS stated that if a Surveyor subdivides properties and encroaches on someone else property that is approved by the Survey Department;
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where the landowner files a dispute the Chief Surveyor has the authority to reject the plans that becomes null and void. The drawback to that is, if parcels have been sold it becomes a wider issue as to how the original landowner re-claims his land. 2077. The Member for the Third District asked if Surveyors could be sued. The CS stated that there are provisions for legal actions to be taken against Surveyors who have not done due diligence. The Ordinance came into force in 1970-1973 and there is a need to have the Ordinance reviewed to see how it could work better for the landowners, Surveyors and the Territory. 2078. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked how involved is the Survey

Department in ensuring that subdivision are done in a manner that it does not cause difficulty in terms of development and road access. A The CS the process that was previously described, where the Surveyor has to take the proposed plan to Town and Country Planning, there is a meeting where many departments (PWD, W&S, etc.) are represented. Where there are challenging terrains, it is referred to PWD where the Engineers would take the information to analyze if the terrain is acceptable and referred back to the Surveyor to make recommended changes. 2079. The Member for the Third District asked if it is possible to do a subdivision without a right of way. The CS answered no; there must be access to the lots. 2080. The Member for the Fifth District urged the CS to assist the Officer who has been a Trainee for the past fourteen years and wishes the CS and his team all the best as they continue in their field. 2081. The CS stated that the DCS has drafted a memorandum to the Ministry to get the matter rectified to get the Officer regularised. 2082. The Member for the Third District asked if the Surveyors have a rate or minimum fee. The CS stated that there should be a Surveyor Association. However, he is unsure of how functional the Association is; but they came up with a scale of fees that is sufficient to cover their services. !"#$%(**%&'%"#$%

2083. The Chairman thanked the CS and his team for coming and giving information to the SFC.

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Head 390 Present:

MINISTRY OF EDUCATION AND CULTURE

Dr. Marcia Potter

Ag. Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Education & Culture

Ms. Tasha Bertie Mrs. C. Jovita Scatliffe Ms. Stacy Brewley

Ag. Deputy Secretary, Ministry of Education and Culture Ag. Finance and Planning Officer Ag. Senior Accounts Officer

2084. The Chairman welcomed the panel and asked that they state their names for the record to which they complied. 2085. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired about the future of our present Education system and whether the present education system could take us where we needed to go. 2086. The Ag.PS stated that we would have to make some significant changes in our education system. She stated that if we were moving forward into the 21st century we definitely were going to take technology much more seriously than we are doing. She said that we had to retrain our teachers and ensure that new teachers were trained to deal with the technology. She stated that at the moment a number of their teachers seemed to be afraid to use the computer. The Ag.PS further stated that they had students in the schools who knew more about the computers than the teachers. She said that they had to do a lot of retraining and there needed to be curriculum revision in our schools and the methodologies of teaching had to be changed. 2087. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried how the fee was structured for payment. The Ag.PS stated that the portion of the fee paid by the Government to the University was paid annually.
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2088. The Minister for Health and Social Development queried the number of years this had been going on. The Ag.PS stated that it had been building since 2006. 2089. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether they still continued to take our students. The Ag.PS stated yes. 2090. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that this should be priority. 2091. The Member for the Third District enquired whether that figure was confirmed. The Ag.PS stated that this was the figure sent to them. 2092. The Member for the Third District stated that there had been running disputes over those figures. He stated that it was not because the Government did not have the money to pay but because Government did not know what to pay. 2093. The Ag.PS stated that fees have increased and were not taken into consideration when there were considerations for the budget for the increase in the fees. She further stated that the University also added a fourth campus on the HLSCC campus. She said that there was a payment which started in 2008 which would have spiked the cost for the contribution that the country makes to the UWI as a member country of that institution. She stated that she thought that all of those things were building over the years which caused the increase. 2094. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried how far back it went. The Ag.PS stated that when she called the University of the West Indies they told her that they were speaking to her from 2006/2007. 2095. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether they had their figures. The Ag.PS stated yes. 2096. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried who in the Ministry had been reconciling to see if those figures were accurate. The Ag.PS stated that they just received the bill at the end of December and she was now trying to see how the situation could be reconciled. The Territorial Member further asked whether any !"#$%(+$%&'%"#$%

consideration had been given to reducing the outstanding amount until the bills were reconciled. The Ag.PS stated that that was a part of the thinking to bring some resolution to the matter. The Territorial Member stated that he would hate that we got to a point where the University of the West Indies tells us that our students could not participate in their classes. He stated that we needed to reconcile this quickly as possible because our reputation which was at stake. 2097. The Ag.PS stated that maybe we needed to take a decision on how payments were being made to students for the University of the West Indies. She stated that most of the students who go to UWI were law students or medical students. She said that students studying in the U.S would get all of the funds in incremental payments by semester to pay their fees. She said that at the University of the West Indies the fees were split into Government contribution and tuition. She stated that a student was paid $25,000.00 in scholarship and the UWI students only pay their tuition from that amount. She said that the Ministry still had to pay the contribution to the University which meant that they were double paying if they continued with that situation at present. She said that the last time she checked, a medical student at UWI in the clinical years would be paying $7,000-$8,000 for tuition and all other fees but they were given $25,000.00 in scholarships. She said that the Ministry would pay the economic cost to the University which was not taken out of that $25,000. 2098. The Member for the Fifth District queried who was responsible for paying for the accommodation for the students. 2099. The Ag.PS stated that the student was responsible for their accommodation. She said that if a student went to a University such as the United States, they received $25,000 paid in equal amounts per semester for the year which would take care of all their expenses which included tuition, boarding, meals, everything. She further explained that the student who goes to UWI received the same $25,000 but did not pay the full amount. She said that the University of the West Indies had it split into economic costs and tuition and fees. She stated that the tuition and fees would come up to
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approximately six to seven thousand dollars but the student would still get the $25,000. She said that they were still paying the remainder of the scholarship money directly to the University. 2100. The Member for the Fifth District enquired whether the Ag.PS was saying that we should reduce the amount of money that the students were receiving. The Ag.PS stated that that was what she was recommending and that a portion of that scholarship money be kept back to pay the economic costs to the University. 2101. The Member for the Fifth District queried if the decision was that the student would receive $25,000 to cover the cost of tuition. The Ag.PS stated that they would receive enough money to take care of all of their expenses. She said that a portion is kept back to pay the economic cost to the University. 2102. The Member for the Third District stated that it was his understanding that there was a credit at UWI. He enquired what the Ministry was paying for. The Ag.PS stated that at the University of the West Indies the student was paid the scholarship money and then they would have to pay the University an economic cost and it was paid according to the number of students that they had at the University. 2103. The Member for the Fifth District enquired about the economic costs. The Ag.PS stated that was how the University had always broken down their fees and was what the Member Countries over the years have accepted and she could not give an explanation as to why the University had it that way. 2104. The Member for the Fifth District enquired whether all Member Countries contributed this cost. The Ag.PS stated that all Member Countries paid the economic costs according to the number of students they had at the University. 2105. The Member for the Third District enquired about what the students paid. The Ag.PS stated that the students paid the tuition and all other fees.

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2106. The Member for the Third District queried whether this money was enough to pay tuition. The Ag.PS stated that they were getting the full scholarship amount that all other students were getting that attended other places. 2107. The Member for the Third District expressed that it could not happen. 2108. The Member for the Eighth District enquired how long this had been going on. The Ag.PS stated that as far as she knew, this had been the arrangement for a very long time. 2109. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that there was something about the system that did not work anymore and it needed to be fixed. 2110. The Member for the Third District queried the last time they paid UWI anything that was outstanding. The Ag.PS stated that nothing had been paid on the outstanding balance. She said that they paid the normal payment that they made to UWI in December 2011 which was $159,000 to take care of the students who were there presently. 2111. The Member for the Fifth District stated that they should check the records and see when the figure of $25,000 came about. The Ag.PS stated that she already began to look into the situation and was willing to send the report as soon as they found out what was going on. 2112. The Member for the Third District enquired whether it was for students attending now. The Ag.PS stated that most of their students at UWI were law students and medical students. 2113. The Member for the Third District stated that he knew the tuition for students overseas was increased because of the rising cost of living. 2114. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that there was a revised version of the budget.
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2115. The Member for the Third District enquired what the Ministry of Education and Culture wanted the Standing Finance to know to be taken note of in the second handout. The Ag.PS stated the reason for the second handout on the budgetary projections for academic year for Fall 2012 to Spring 2013 was to give the committee an idea of the number of students they had studying and the costs. She said that their concern was to be able to take care of all of the scholarships awarded and they needed to have $8 million dollars in the budget to take care of them. She stated that they did not have that figure in the budget. 2116. The Member for the Third District queried the amount of money in their budget. The Ag.PS stated about $3.1 million. 2117. The Member for the Third District queried what it was going to cost Government for the 2011/2012 school year. The Ag.PS stated approximately four million dollars for fall and spring. 2118. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the new students coming in would cost us 4 million dollars. The Ag.PS stated yes. 2119. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether the replacement of laptops was going to be an ongoing programme by Government and how much it would cost. He further queried when all of the laptops were going to be replaced. The Ag.PS stated that that would have to be a decision that had to be made going forward about the replacement of laptops. She said that it was not figured into the decision when the initiative was started but going forward it was something to be carefully thought about. 2120. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired how the laptops were stolen. The Ag.PS stated that that was the report given to them by the teachers. She said that there were cases where their houses were broken into, left in vehicles, they were left somewhere and when someone turned their backs the laptops were not there. She said that those were the kind of stories that came to them.
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2121. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether they were paid and at whose expense. The Ag.PS stated that they were paid at the teachers expense. 2122. The Member for the Third District enquired whether they were replaced. The Ag.PS said that there were some fuss but they were replaced. 2123. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether they were happy with the Power School Initiative. 2124. The Ag.PS stated that the reports from the parents have all been positive so far. She said that the parents were happy that they could log on at anytime and see that their children were in school and also to view their grades. She stated that there has only been one complaint that they would like to see beyond just the grades and the attendance and behavioural reports logged in by the teachers. She further stated that they were looking into that so they could have access to that module as well to be able to see that information. She said that the problem for those in the Ministry was that the resources were limited in terms of making sure that all of the information was uploaded to the system on a regular basis and the major one was ensuring that the platform could carry the load of the system. 2125. The Ag.PS stated that at the beginning of every school year, the schools needed to put in all of the new students that were entering the system and that had been a problem for them within the schools and so a lot of the work has been done within the Ministry with the persons working with Power School. She said the principals were complaining that they did not have the staff to do and it that they did not understand what to do and was putting incorrect information so the staff at the Ministry still had to go and redo it in order to make sure that the information was correct. 2126. The Member for the Eighth District stated that in 2010 there was a massive training initiative that went on with the Power School system. He enquired whether the teachers were still not up to date. The Ag.PS stated that there needed to be more than one training session, especially the older teachers who were not willing to get with the
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technology. She said that the Ministry had to continue to work with them and encourage them to make sure that they understood what was needed to be done. 2127. The Member for the Eighth District queried whether they deployed the whole training and if there were persons within the Ministry along with ISU that had the capacity to train. The Ag.PS stated that the training continued and the Assistant Secretary for IT in the Ministry continued to go out and conducted training with her assistant to the schools to help the teachers. 2128. The Member for the Eighth District queried about the load of the system and its capacity with the teachers all at once. He queried who assisted the PS in that process. The Ag.PS stated that the Assistant Secretary responsible for IT had been working with the Department of Information and Technology in looking at the entire situation. 2129. The Member for the Eighth District enquired how much the system cost the Government of the Virgin Islands. The Ag.PS stated that she would have to bring back that cost to the committee. 2130. The Member for the Third District spoke about students asking for extensions because all of their credits at HLSCC were not accepted. He enquired whether that was a big problem. The Ag.PS stated that they had been having an increase in the number of students that were asking for extensions of their scholarships for other reasons but mainly because their credits were not accepted from HLSCC. 2131. The Member for the Third District stated that it was one of our problems that could be resolved through accreditation. 2132. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether there were any other initiatives or programmes that they offered computers or laptops to individuals. The Ag.PS stated that outside of the top students receiving laptops on graduation there were not any other initiatives.

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2133. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether she was aware that the former Minister of Education had a program or initiative where he was giving persons within the District laptop computers based on whatever criteria was established. The Ag.PS stated that she heard of the initiative but she was unaware of it being linked to the Ministry. 2134. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether there was a possibility that it came from another source of funding outside of the Ministry of Education. 2135. The Member for the Third District stated that it must be noted that it was done in his capacity as District Representative and it just happened that he was the Minister of Education & Culture at the time. 2136. The Premier stated that the initiative in which his colleague was speaking was not an initiative of the Ministry. He enquired whether there were any other computer programmes. The Ag.PS stated that as far as she knew, the other initiative was giving the top students laptops on graduation day. 2137. The Member for the Eighth District enquired whether that was just for the High Schools or Primary Schools as well. The Ag.PS stated that it was for the Secondary Schools. 2138. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the curfew law and pointed out that under the comments in the budget it stated that it was to be finalised. He enquired about the status. Attorney Generals Chambers 2139. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether there were any indications from them that we could expect to see. The Ag.PS said no and she would have to follow up on it. 2140. The Member for the Third District enquired why it was at the Attorney Generals Chambers. The Ag.PS stated that it had the First Reading in the House last year.
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The Ag.PS stated that the curfew law was with the

2141. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether they were awaiting its Second and Third Reading. The Ag.PS stated that her understanding was that it would have to be re-introduced in the House. 2142. The Minister for Education and Culture queried if they would say whether it passed through the Ministry over the last four years. The Ag.PS stated that she was not aware of any that had already passed through the House. 2143. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that he did not mean those that were here. He queried whether any of the legislations were completed. He said that there were a total of thirteen legislations and he would have hoped that they were waiting to be passed. He stated that he found it hard to believe that over the time none went through. 2144. The Member for the Second District stated that it was his understanding that if Legislation was to be passed in the House by any Member and the House was dissolved, they would continue the Legislation regardless of whatever stage it would have to be re-introduced. 2145. The Member for the Eighth District queried about the Green Land Field. He enquired whether an assessment was done on that project. The Ag.PS stated that the Greenland Field would be discussed when they returned for the Capital Budget. Subhead 61425 2146. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that he noticed that there was nothing in 2010 or 2011. He said that there was $100,000 in 2012. He enquired what happened in the previous years. The Ag.PS stated that that Subhead had just been transferred to the Ministry of Education and Culture from the Premiers Office. 2147. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether that Subhead did not include the maintenance of all public schools. The Ag.PS said that it did not have all of the maintenance for the public schools. She stated that it came under Head 400
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under the Department of Education. She said that in terms of major maintenance that would fall under the Capital. 2148. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried how it was covered if a window was damaged at the Elmore Stoutt High School. The Ag.PS stated that it would be covered by the Elmore High School budget under their maintenance Subhead. 2149. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether this was a new Subhead created to cover the AO Shirley Recreation Grounds and the Ellis Thomas Downs. He enquired whether that was enough money. The Ag.PS stated that it was not. Subhead 61510 2150. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried where the local museums were and how many we had. The Ag.PS stated that there were three museums. She stated that the one on Main Street fell directly under the Department of Culture. She said that the Department of Culture and the Tourist Board work along with the Sugar Works Museum. 2151. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the one we were paying for was the one on Main Street. The Ag.PS confirmed that. 2152. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about Sports Division being in the Wards Building and Unesco Office. The Ag.PS said yes. 2153. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired where the Curriculum Development Project was. The Ag.PS stated that the Curriculum Development Project was located in the RJT Edifice. 2154. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether all of those leases were current. The Ag.PS said yes and stated that the owners of the Ward Building informed them that the rent would be increased this year. 2155. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired by how much. The Ag.PS stated that they would be increasing from paying $18.00 per sq ft to $35.00 per sq ft. !"#$%(+"%&'%"#$%

2156. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired when the lease expired on the building. The Ag.PS stated that leasing of the building was done through the Deputy Governors Office and their accommodations committee. 2157. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether they knew about the discussions with respect to the rates. The Ag.PS stated no and that they were now in negotiations with the owners of the building. 2158. The Member for the Third District asked how the Curriculum Development Programme was doing and that he understood that it was established about eight years ago. The Ag.PS said it was established approximately eight years ago. 2159. The Member for the Third District enquired when it was going to be finished. The Ag.PS stated that the National Curriculum Redesigned Project has so far completed the National Standards based curriculum for Language Arts, Mathematics and Science which have already been implemented in the Primary Schools. She further stated that Social Studies is being made ready for implementation in September 2012 and the project offices now worked diligently to complete the Language Arts and Mathematics for lower secondary school in time for September 2012. 2160. The Member for the Third District enquired about the programmes implemented in the Primary Schools. He asked if they were implemented in the Private Primary Schools as well. The Ag.PS stated that for those private Primary Schools who do the National Primary Five Exit exam, they follow the curriculum as well. 2161. The Member for the Third District enquired whether all of the Primary Schools in the Territory were not standardised to do the Primary School leaving exam. The Ag.PS said that it was not all of the private Primary Schools. 2162. The Member for the Third District queried whether it was because they had their own high schools. The Ag.PS stated that in the case Cedar School, the students go directly into Cedar Secondary so they do not sit our Primary Five exams. She went on to say
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that St.Georges, Seventh Day Adventist, the two schools on Virgin Gorda and First Impressions all followed the curriculum put in place. 2163. The Member for the Third District enquired whether Cedar School had a sixth and seventh grade. The Ag.PS said yes. 2164. The Member for the Third District enquired about their accreditation initiative and how it was going. 2165. The Ag.PS stated that the Ag. Chief Education Officer would speak in more detail with respect to the accreditation process. She stated that the accreditation process for their Secondary Schools, the decision was taken that they were going to follow a particular protocol Excellence by Design using a systems approach. She said that there were two schools following the accreditation path and they were not doing it individually but together along with the Department of Education and changes have to be made in both schools as well as the Department of Education/Ministry of Education in order for the schools to be accredited. She said that for any one part to fall down it meant that accreditation may not be realised. She further said that the protocol did not require them to put anything outside of what they had in place in terms of their curriculum. She said that they decided what curriculum they wanted to have in their school and they were realising the vision that was set forward for their Education System and once that was proved then it should not be a problem. 2166. The Member for the Third District enquired about the two schools. The Ag.PS stated the Bregado Flax Education Centre Secondary Division and The Elmore Stoutt High School. 2167. The Member for the Third District enquired about whether they may ask us to make changes. The Ag.PS stated that the changes were going to be mainly in their infrastructure, the physical plant of the school, the changes are going to be in terms of curriculum in how they assess their students and what the product of the Secondary Schools were when they graduated. She further stated that they needed to know what
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they wanted to see when their students graduated from Secondary Schools. She further indicated that technology was a big part of it. Subhead 62400 2168. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the $164,000 for UWI. He further enquired whether it included that outstanding amount or was it separate. The Ag.PS stated no and that it was separate. 2169. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired what the payment covered. The Ag.PS stated that this was the payment in the budget for a number of years to pay each year for the students. She said that there were years when the number of students had increased and there was a situation where fees and the economic costs increased at UWI but the amount paid to UWI remained the same in the budget and things were not taken into consideration. She said that they were not paying that amount owned to UWI but they were building a balance over the years. 2170. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether there was a maintenance manager in place right now. The Ag.PS stated no. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian further queried the reason. The Ag.PS stated that after the passing of the former manager of maintenance they had to go through the process of trying to recruit internally but they only had one applicant. She said that the applicant did not have the requisite qualifications etc. She stated that they went to HR who said that they would have to go to Cabinet to get permission to advertise externally. 2171. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried how long they have been out of a Maintenance Manager. The Ag.PS stated that it had been a year and two months. 2172. The Member for the Third District queried whether they had a contract for maintaining the schools. The Ag.PS stated that some schools had persons assigned to them. 2173. The Member for the Third District enquired whether there was a contractor responsible for seeing the maintenance of the schools. The Ag.PS said that it was not !"#$%("&%&'%"#$%

for every school. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the qualifications of the person that they were seeking to employ. The Ag.PS stated that the qualifications were a minimum of a Bachelors Degree in some area of engineering to be able to advise the Department and Ministry of Education on the things that needed to be done in the schools. 2174. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether they considered that there was someone out there that did not have a Bachelors Degree but had experience. The Ag.PS stated that they had applicants and some persons that did not have the requisite qualifications who showed that they had a sense of what was needed but were all external to the Public Service. 2175. The Member for the Third District enquired about the contract. The Ag.PS stated that the contract held by CBE were to oversee several projects that were going on in the Ministry of Education and Culture which included schools. 2176. The Member for the Fifth District queried which schools. The Ag.PS stated all schools and they saw projects such as the lunch programme at the Elmore Stoutt High School and works were done at several of the primary schools throughout the Territory. 2177. The Member for the Fifth District enquired how schools were being maintained. The Ag. PS stated that the present supervisor of the maintenance of the schools had been trying to hold on to see what he could do but it was not adequate. 2178. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether all of the schools were staffed with the adequate amount of teachers, counsellors and all of those persons that were supposed to ensure that our children receive first class education. The Ag.PS stated that to her knowledge there were staff, however that would be left for the Chief Education Officer to speak on seeing she was responsible for the schools. 2179. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the number of contracts awarded over the last four years. The Ag.PS stated that she asked the officers to !"#$%("'%&'%"#$%

provide the information and she could go year by year and they could get that information tomorrow. Subhead 62700 2180. The Member for the Sixth District enquired about any other projects being done. The Ag.PS stated that she was unable to answer the question. 2181. The Minister for Education and Culture spoke about the figure under this Subhead. He stated for The Member for the Sixth District that it was normally to help the Ministry when they needed consultancy work on special educational matters. The Ag.PS stated that the document with the contract and the consultants would come from this Subhead. 2182. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether they had any persons away that were being trained in the area of Counselling or Special Education. The Ag.PS stated that there were persons studying in that field. 2183. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried the number of persons. The Ag.PS stated that she did not have the total number but there were people in the field. She said that when they returned there needed to have post and monies available also. 2184. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that if we had two or three persons away now that should be put into motion. The Ag.PS stated yes unless there wasnt a freeze on employment. 2185. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian said that there were certain areas which were short changed such as Health and Education. Subhead 62342 2186. The Member for the Third District queried about the amount for the Youth Development Programme. He enquired how that program differed from that in Youth Affairs. The Ag.PS stated that it was the Subhead from which payments were made

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to Sports organisations and other youth organisations. She stated that the Department of Sports dealt with the after school programmes. 2187. The Member for the Third District enquired whether monies came from this Subhead. The Ag.PS stated that they had their own Subheads and the Ministry dealt with the Sporting organisations such as the football, basketball associations etc. 2188. The Member for the Third District enquired whether this was the grants given to those sporting organisations. The Ag.PS stated yes. 2189. The Member for the Third District enquired whether they gave grants to those schools for pre-school children. The Ag.PS stated that the payments for pre-schools were done through the Department of Education. 2190. The Member for the Third District enquired if a private school needed assistance if they could come and be paid from this Subhead. The Ag.PS stated that as long as it is sanctioned. 2191. The Member for the Third District enquired about the Youth Programme. The Ag.PS stated that it was for example the Youth Unemployment Register. 2192. The Member for the Third District enquired whether it was not under Youth Affairs but from the Ministry. 2193. The Member for the Eighth District queried when that was started. The Ag.PS said that she could not say when it was started. 2194. The Member for the Third District enquired what they did at the prison. The Ag.PS stated that she was unable to say at the time and she was not aware of any initiative for the prison. 2195. The Member for the Third District enquired about the ecclesiastical and cultural initiatives that were to be approved by the Minister for Education and Culture. He said that $250,000 for the V.I Neighbourhood Programme should be taken out.
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2196. The Minster for Education and Culture stated that it would be taken out and that there was a revised budget but the bottom line did not change. Subhead 62420 2197. The Member for the Third District enquired whether that was what was spoken about earlier. The Ag.PS stated yes and that it covered the allowances to the HLSCC students and the Technical Vocational Apprenticeship Programme at HLSCC. 2198. The Member for the Third District stated that HLSCC alone was $400,000. The Ag.PS stated yes. 2199. The Member for the Third District enquired about the 28 staff at the Ministry. The Ag.PS stated that yes and not all of the posts were filled at this present time. 2200. The Member for the Third District queried which post was vacant. The Ag.PS stated that the Deputy Secretarys post was vacant. 2201. The Member for the Third District queried whether all of those posts were in the Ministry or if they were working somewhere else and were being held against those posts. The Ag.PS stated that they were between the Ministry and the UNESCO office which was outside of the Ministry. She said that there were also Clerical Officers and Messenger for that office with the Secretary General. 2202. The Member for the Third District enquired whether there was any staff in Education being held against a post in the Ministry. The Ag.PS stated no. 2203. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the Sir. Rupert Briercliffe Hall was being funded completely under the Ministry. The Ag.PS stated yes. 2204. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the $70,800.00 was what they were going to need to run that facility for the year and if it collected any revenue. The Ag.PS stated no. She said that they were asking for an audit of the Sir Rupert Briercliffe Hall.
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2205. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether they still collected money. The Ag.PS stated that it collected money but she did not know how much they collected which was why they were asking for an audit. She stated that she did not see a recent report. 2206. The Member for the Third District enquired whether it ran directly under the Ministry. The Ag.PS stated that the subvention was given to the Sir Rupert Briercliffe Hall from the Ministry. 2207. The Member for the Third District requested that Mr. Derek Marshall, the Manager be present. The Ag.PS stated yes. 2208. The Member for the Third District enquired who was paid. The Ag.PS stated the Manager. 2209. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired how much the Manager was paid. The Ag.PS stated $19,900 per annum. 2210. The Member for the Third District requested that the Recreation Trust appear before the SFC as well. 2211. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired whether the Recreation Trust Board Members term had expired. The Ag.PS stated yes on the end of January 2012. 2212. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that the Sir Rupert Briercliffe Hall could be a revenue earner and that it could pay for the staff while bringing in income. He stated that over the years, the public got the impression that the building could be used for free. He further said that their records should show that in previous years there were established rates for the use of the hall. He said that there were certain functions in which one had to pay a percentage of the gate proceeds and then it dwindled down to a flat rate and then to practically nothing. He said that it needed to be audited.

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2213. The Member for the Fifth District queried how many persons comprised the Executive Body. The Ag.PS stated that there was the Chairman, Deputy Chairman and the Treasurer for the Recreation Trust. 2214. The Member for the Third District enquired whether those three were Board Members. The Ag.PS stated that they were members of the Trust. 2215. The Member for the Third District stated that they were asking for the Chairman, Treasurer and the Deputy Chairman for the Recreation Trust and the Manager for the Sir Rupert Briercliffe Hall. Subhead 61425 2216. The Member for the Third District enquired whether this included Ellis Thomas Downs and the upkeep of its grounds. The Ag.PS said yes. 2217. The Member for the Third District enquired about the expenditure for the upkeep of Ellis Thomas Downs. The Ag.PS stated that she was unable to answer that. She said that it was just turned over to them. 2218. The Budget Coordinator stated that the funds were transferred to Premiers Office. She stated that in speaking with the office that was the sum that they suggested for the period from April to December. She said that the note should only reflect maintenance of Ellis Thomas Downs. She said that the note was copied from Premiers office who was maintaining the track and bandstand. She stated that this note was only for Ellis Downs. 2219. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired whether the race track was under the Premiers Office. The Ag.PS stated that it was under the Premiers Office but it was transferred to the Ministry. 2220. The BC stated that the A.O Shirley Grounds was still under the Premiers Office in capital and funding was provided for 2012 in Capital for the A.O Shirley Grounds.

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She said that if the committee wished the funds could be transferred to the Ministry of Education and Culture, it could be done. 2221. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired whether there was a shared responsibility with respect to the track between the Premiers office and Communication and Works. 2222. The Member for the Third District stated that the Premiers Office had the recurrent and they took care of the maintenance. He stated that the Capital was under the Ministry of Communication and Works. 2223. The Chairman thanked the panel for coming and for answering the questions and concerns raised by the Members.

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HEAD 395 Present:

YOUTH AFFAIRS AND SPORTS

Mrs. Marcia Potter Ms. Tasha Bertie Mr. Patrick Harrigan Mrs. C. Jovita Scatliffe Ms. Linda Durante

Ag. Permanent Secretary/ME&C Ag. Deputy Secretary/ME&C Ag. Director of Youth Affairs and Sports Ag. Finance and Planning Officer/ME&C Accounts Officer, DYA&S

2224. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District welcomed the Permanent Secretary/Ministry of Education and Culture and her team and asked them to state their names for the records to which they complied. 2225. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that he indicated that there were changes made to the Budget that is in Draft C and would like to let Members know that the cumulated figures did not change. 2226. The Member for the Third District stated that the proposed amendments are recorded in the Ministry of Finance and the SFC must know whether they were accepted. The DFS stated that the changes were recorded. 2227. The AgPSMEC stated that the changes were not many. Under Head 390 Ministry of Education and Culture changes were made to Subhead 61410-Maintenance and Hire that figure was increased slightly it was originally $7,8300 it is now $8,000. Changes were also made to Subhead 62312- Youth Development that figure was decreased from $526,500 to $500,000. Subhead 62410- Scholarships and Assistant Grants; that figure was also decreased to $500,000, it was originally $567,000. Subhead 62412 - Grant to Sir Rupert Briercliffe Hall was increased to $87,400.
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Subhead 62425 Graduate Scholarship Programme was decreased to $255,700 it was originally $267,700. Subhead 62920 Curriculum Expenses was added with a total of $36,200; the notes would reflect that it covers the national curriculum cost. The National Curriculum Project was previously paid from a Subhead 62700 Consultancy. 2228. The Member for the Third District asked what expenses would be covered. The AgPSMEC stated that it is expected to run the expenses of the Office. As previously mentioned in her report, they are looking at bringing the budget to a close and putting a curriculum unit within the ME&C. 2229. As a point of clarity, The Member for the Third District asked if they are going to close the Unit that now exists and create another Unit. The PSMEC stated that they are looking at restructuring and establishing a curriculum unit within the Ministry Department of Education and Culture. 2230. The Member for the Third District asked where the rent for the space being used is covered. The AgPSMEC stated that the rent is covered under Subhead 61510 Office Rent 2231. The Member for the Third District asked if $36,200 came out of all the adjustments made. The AgPMEC stated yes the bottom line figure has not been changed. Head 395 Department of Youth Affairs and Sports, Subhead 62345 Sports Services it is now $242,400 it was $292,400. 2232. The Member for the Third District asked if there are any vacancies within the Department of Youth Affairs and Sports. The AgDYAS stated that the posts of Assistant Director for Youths, Senior Administrative Officer and Clerical Officer positions are currently vacant. 2233. The Member for the Third District stated that he presumed that the DYAS is very much involved in the job programme for the youths and asked if the SFC could get a
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list of persons who registered for the programme and how many persons were successful in being placed. 2234. The AgPSMEC stated that a list of the registrants could be provided; however, they cannot provide a figure on how many persons were successfully placed. It is

currently being looked into and they are calling employers and monitoring the process. From the job fair a number of registrants submitted applications and were immediately employed; but she does not have a figure to say how many persons were employed. 2235. The Member for the Third District asked if there isnt a rough figure. The AgPSMEC stated that she is still awaiting feedback from employers. 2236. The Member for the Third District stated that he heard that the MC&W signed on approximately thirty (30) persons as apprentices and asked what it really means. The AgPSMEC stated that from her understanding the MC&W is asking some of their Departments to take on some of the Registrants to allow them to work along with persons in various units to help them gain skills and make them better prepared for employment. They were able to be paid an honorarium. 2237. The Member for the Third District asked if this is an interim step to where they are and where they are expected to go. The AgPSMEC stated yes. 2238. The Member for the Third District asked for clarification on what is an honorarium and where the monies would be coming from. The AgPSMEC stated that she cannot answer the question. 2239. The Member for the Third District asked if the MoF could offer any information in the absence of the MC&W. The DFS stated that the information would be researched and presented to the SFC. The AgPMEC stated that maybe she used the wrong word and should be stipend rather than honorarium. The Minister for Education and

Culture stated that there were fifty (50) persons placed within the MC&W and not
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thirty (30). The Member for the Third District asked if this is also happening with other Government Departments. The AgPSMEC stated not that she is aware of. 2240. The Member for the Third District asked if an assessment within the Territory to find out what jobs are vacant or available before the programme began or is it an initiative where positions would be created within the business community for people. The AgPSMEC stated that no assessment was done of the places in the Territory; however, it is fair to state that they werent promising everyone would be placed. If they were not ready for the workforce then the opportunity would be offered for them to get in programmes to develop their skills. 2241. The Member for the Third District stated that he thinks it is a good initiative. He asked the AgDYAS how he feels about the progress with the programme. The AgDYAS stated that he feels pleased about the programme; he realizes that there is still a lot of work to be done. 2242. The Member for the Third District stated that the ME&C in the section of DY&S has a mammoth task. He asked for an explanation on why the Territory is having a terrible time corralling the youths in the area of sports or elsewhere and where does the DYA&S fit into all this. 2243. The AgDYAS stated that the department is short-staffed and he is not happy about what is happening with the youths but he feels that there is more money needed to have better programmes. The Department has good programmes that include the after school and sports programmes. He thinks that the problem lies beyond the DYAS and one entity cannot correct the problem in the BVI. He feels that the parents have turned the youths loose and they are looking for someone to blame. It is something that everyone must come together to support. It is overwhelming to see that from ages five to eleven the parents support the kids and as soon as they get into high school that support diminishes. If appropriate funds are not put into education, health and sports the funding may go into buying machines to deal with us when we are sick
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and building new prison wards. It is not something that the DYAS can do alone, it is the entire community and everyone needs to take a role. 2244. The Member for the First District asked what are the plans to fully engage the skills of some of these officers who seemed not to be as engaged during the Government work hours between 8:30 to 4:30; but seems to be more engaged after hours in activities that are not connected to the DYAS but to the Officers themselves. What are the plans to remedy this so that baseball and track and field could be seen as a national entity and not an individual entity. 2245. The AgDYAS stated that it is unfortunate that people in the community see the individuals that work in the afternoon programs as their personal programmes. With respect to baseball/softball, the programme is DYAS. One of the Sports Officers is expected to be in Office during regular government work hours; however, since he is in the field from 3:00pm until 8:00pm questions of his compensatory leave for the extra hours were raised. In light of that, he was placed on a schedule from 12:00pm to 8:00pm and that worked out well. The other Sports Officers portfolio is school sports (basketball, track and field, and volley ball etc.). He understands what the Member is saying and it is something that they have tried to deal with it over and over. They are making head way since the Sports Officer responsible for school sports reports to work regularly (at one point he did not report to work daily). 2246. The Member for the First District asked if the Physical Education Teachers are under the portfolio of the DYAS. The DYAS stated that the PE Teachers were removed more than five years ago and this caused the programmes of the DYAS to fall. When they were under DYAS it was a link between the schools and DYAS. The Officers in house are responsible for designing, evaluating and redesigning programmes that are then implemented. The PE Teachers were the one implementing the programmes so they were able to run the school leagues more efficient. Currently the DYAS has no say in what the PE Teachers do and the link between the department and the schools is no longer there.
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2247. The Member for the Third District asked if one of the problems was that the PE Teachers were not going to the schools and the Principals had not control over them. The DYAS stated that he think that was a problem because there were those who stated that they were a part of Department of Education and not DYAS; but before they were under DYAS when the department previously operated as Sports Division that problem did not exist. 2248. The Member for the Third District as a point of clarity asked if one of the Officers is responsible for all school sports and if that Officer was responsible for the school sports that took place on 23rd February 2012. 2249. The DYAS explained that the school sports that took place on 23rd February 2012 was arranged by the schools themselves. However, school sports referred to the sports that the DYAS organized such as baseball, basketball and volleyball that leads up to National Sports. The Officer would be responsible for planning the calendars and liaising with the schools and the Department of Education. 2250. The Member for the Second District stated that last year when the AgDYAS came before the SFC; the question about his appointment was raised. He asked if the AgDYAS could give a fresh update on his appointment. The AgDYAS stated that he has no information since that time. The Member for the Third District then asked who made the statement at the time. The Member for the Second District stated that he asked the question last year. 2251. The Member for the Third District asked in the absence of the former PSMEC, if the AgPSMEC could answer the question in regards to the AgDYAS appointment. The AgPSMEC stated that she cannot speak to what happened before; but since her appointment she has written to HR to find out what has happened to all of the vacant positions at the DYAS. She is still awaiting an answer. 2252. The Member for the Third District stated that the SFC needed to know if an answer could be forthcoming before they leave. HR must give an answer so that the SFC
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could be informed. The AgPMEC stated that she would try to get the answer from HR for the SFC. 2253. The Member for the Third District stated that if the Ag. PSMEC cannot get the answer from HR, he suggests that the SFC recalls HR before them to get the answer. 2254. The Member for the Eighth District as a point of clarity asked if the Sport Officers are responsible for executing programmes within the schools. The AgDYAS stated that they are responsible for designing programmes and evaluating once they have been implemented. 2255. The Member for the Eighth District asked if any programmes exist or if they have been designed for the relevant sports. The AgDYAS stated that he is aware that a curriculum is being developed for physical education that the PE Teachers would have to be implementing. Once the programmes were implemented in the schools designing the school sports calendar and having the sport leagues would be easier. 2256. The Member for the Eighth District asked as a point of clarity if the answer is no, there are no programmes designed. The AgDYAS stated that it is a matter of being able to have a better working relationship with the PE Teachers to ensure that the programmes are implemented. 2257. The Member for the Eighth District stated that he asked the question because he is aware that there are some associations that are developing programmes. There is a need for the sports to be developed. The AgDYAS stated that what they have been doing also is working with other associations and still run afterschool sports programme. Although the other associations have more manpower to execute their programmes, the DYAS is partnering with them. 2258. The Member for the Third District asked if the DYAS is responsible for all sporting activities in the territory. The AgDYAS stated yes.

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2259. The Member for the Third District asked why were the sporting programmes executed, if the facilities are in shambles. The AgDYAS stated that they use

whatever facility available such as the high school volleyball court, the multipurpose sports complex, HLSCC campus for cricket etc. 2260. The Member for the Third District stated that the facility in Sea Cows Bay is non functional and when this happens who is responsible. The AgDYAS stated that Recreation Parks Trust is responsible for maintaining the sporting facilities in the Territory. 2261. The Member for the Third District asked the AgDYAS if he agrees that in order for the sporting programmes to be successful there is a need for functional facilities. The AgDYAS stated that the upkeep of the facilities could be much better. He feels that pride and dedication are lacking within the Community. He expects that when the Hon. Minister and the DYAS meet he has ideas that he hopes that the Hon. Minister would buy into so the DYAS could move forward. 2262. The Member for the First District stated that it seems that Isabella Morris Primary School was inadvertently removed from the afterschool programme and asked why. The AgDYAS stated that Isabella Morris Primary Schools coordinator for the afterschool programme was ill and there wasnt anyone available to coordinate the programme. However, the school would be back on the programme. 2263. The Minister for Education and Culture referred to Head 390 Subhead 62342Neighbourhood Programme and stated that notes should be removed. 2264. The AgPSMEC stated that the Virgin Islands Cadet Corp was not attached to the Department or Unit and she received a letter asking which Department they should look to for funding. The Corp submitted a budget of $112,220. She would be grateful to know whom the Corp should be assigned to. 2265. The Member for the First District stated that it originally started as a programme under the DYAS; however, when it got going the National Security Counsel took over !"#$%#$*%&'%"#$%

and if there is still funding available, maybe they could be transferred back to the DYAS. 2266. The Member for the Sixth District thanked the AgPSMEC for coming and giving information to the SFC and wished them well. 2267. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District thanked the panel for coming and for answering the questions posed by Members.

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HEAD 400 HEAD 410 HEAD 420 Present:

EDUCATION(ADMINISTRATION) EDUCATION (PRIMARY AND PRE-PRIMARY) EDUCATION (OTHER SECONDARY SCHOOLS)

Dr. Marcia Potter Ms. Beverly Brathwaite Mrs. Jillian Douglas-Phillip

Ag. Permanent Secretary/ME&C Ag. Chief Education Officer Ag. Deputy Chief Education Officer and Examinations Officer

Ms. Tasha Bertie Mrs. C. Jovita Scatliffe Ms. Koreen George Ms. Janet Moolenaar

Ag. Deputy Secretary/ME&C Ag. Finance and Planning Officer/ME&C Ag. Accounts Supervisor Accounts Officer

2268. The Deputy Chairman welcomed the AgPSMEC and her team and asked them to state their names for the records to which they complied. 2269. The AgCEO stated that Lab fees, fundraising, school admission, testing of students on entry to stage one to determine skill level and if early intervention is needed and Health and Family Life Education are polices that are at the Ministry for discussion and transmission to Cabinet. The Adopt a School policy was finalized and accepted by Cabinet. The Health and Safety School Policy and Assessment Tools were

prepared on behalf of the Ministry and Department of Education. There are other policy areas that need to be developed such as maintenance to schools, increasing access to quality early childhood services and TVET policies.
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There are also

legislative reviews and they are awaiting information from the AG on the status of a number of Regulations. There were a number of workshops for Principals and

Education Officers. There were areas in school improvement and planning such as accreditation, training for teachers (VISION 20/20), and connection of home school and community. Top Three Award system that was adopted in 2008 continued. There is no special subhead for accreditation; however, they are seeking to include a line item that would reflect the initiative. 2270. The AgPSMEC stated that the AgCEO is speaking about three Heads in the budget: Heads 400, 410 and 420. 2271. The AgCEO Power School was valuable for Secondary Schools where they zero in on students who needed special assistance. They also looked at facilities health and safety that included maintenance, flooding, electrical and plumbing issues, flooding, mould, accommodations, cleaning of schools, and security. They were able to

complete new building at Francis Lettsome Primary School and cover the courtyard at Claudia Creque Education Center. They have been trying to improve education programme and assessment and have addressed a number of staffing issues. In terms of student services life and activities, they were able to realize achievements in the DAFFODIL Project and successful completion of International and National Activities. They continue to provide support for students. Challenges included lack of proper accommodations, unable to provide the support needed for services in the sister islands, frustration over the slowness in gaining approval and funding for the early intervention programme. The Truancy Unit was very active throughout the year. Main areas to be focused on for 2012 include accreditation of secondary special education including human resources, development of

schools,

technical/vocation education and relocation of student services to proper facilities. 2272. The AgPSMEC stated that she would highlight the changes made to the budget for Education Administration Pre Primary and other Secondary. Under Head 400

Subhead 61510 Office Rent that amount was increased to $132,000 as they
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envisioned the need for the increase with the move of the Student Services. Subhead 62410- Assistant Grant the amount was moved and subsumed under Subhead 62995 Special Education as well as Subhead - 62420 Further Education Programme. Subhead 62430 Grants to Schools and Organizations was decreased from $100,000 to $82,000. Subhead 62440 Examination Expenses that amount was increased to $75,000 from $56,300. Subhead 62615 Alternative Certificate

Programme was decreased from $210,600 to $100,00. Subhead 62910- Training Expenses that amount was increased $153,900 to $178,900. Subhead 62980

Teachers Training Programme that amount was decreased from $153,900 to $128,900. Subhead 62990 Reading and Literacy Programme that amount was decreased to $55,800 from $200,500. Subhead 62995 Special Education was added to Head 400 and in the notes that reads covers cost of Student Services, special education initiatives and assistance to students undergoing medical evaluations should include on approval from the Minister. 2273. Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian asked how much thought had been given to maintenance of the schools; how much money is factored into the budget for maintenance and is there someone for the post. He further stated that one of the challenges last year was the Department did not have a Maintenance Officer or Supervisor. 2274. The AgCEO stated that they were asking if that could go back up to $84,447 because there are so many things that needs to be fixed in the schools and the current funding may not be enough. Subhead 61420 Alterations and Maintenance rather than

cut it, it needs to go back to where it was. There are problems with electricity and plumbing and since the eighteen (18) schools have not been regularly maintained, they think the amount is a bit less. 2275. The Member for the Third District asked how long as the AgCEO been acting as CEO and what is her substantive post. The AgCEO stated since May 2011 she has been acting as CEO and her substantive post is Education Officer.
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2276. The Member for the Third District asked if she is not the DCEO and if there is a reason to be acting for so long. The AgCEO stated that she was previously acting in that post. 2277. The AgPSMEC stated that all the positions have substantive holders and until the substantive holders are moved elsewhere then they all would remain in the acting posts. 2278. The Member for the Third District asked if there is a CEO and a DCEO. The AgPSCEO stated that there is a substantive holders for the posts. 2279. The Member for the Third District asked if the persons exist. 2280. The AgPSMEC stated that the substantive holders of the posts do exist; they are in other positions or on study leave. 2281. The Member for the First District stated that the Officers are on a Studentship and that is the correct word. 2282. The Member for the First District asked about the overall costing for the Bachelors programme. The AgCEO stated that she does not have the figure; but she is aware they were requesting an addition $65,000 to cover tuition fees and other related fees for the rest of the school year. 2283. The Member for the First District asked if the SFC could be presented with a breakdown of the programme, Teachers salary etc. 2284. The Member for the First District also asked if the University of the West Indies (UWI) is owed for the Bachelors Programme. The AgCEO stated that they need to pay for the next semester; but it would not be enough for the rest of the year. 2285. The AgAS stated that they are in the process preparing payment and she is not sure when the Treasury Department would release the check. Technically they still owe

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UWI for the Bachelors programme it is only a matter of when the check would be released. 2286. The Member for the First District asked since UWI is not owed for the Bachelors Programme, what are they owed for. 2287. The AgPSMEC stated that the previous discussion under Head 390 Ministry of Education and Culture the monies owed to UWI that the Ministry pays is for scholarships. 2288. The Member for the First District asked if that is for the Teachers. The AgPSMEC stated not. 2289. The Member for the First District asked how much money is owed. The AgPSMEC stated approximately $2.8mil. 2290. The Member for the First District stated that, that figure needs to be properly researched before it is paid because the record would show that the PSMEC stated in the 2011 Budget sessions that the ME&C is moving forward with a zero balance. He further stated that history would reflect that the Government of the Virgin Islands has had numerous problems with the way UWI bills their ME&C Scholarship students. This needs to be looked into thoroughly as a Government. In 2001 during his tenure as Minister for Education and Culture there was a deficit, a Senior Accounts Officer from the ME&C was sent to UWI and the amount owed was paid off. During his last term, as Minister, UWI reported another deficit and a Finance Officer from the Ministry was sent to UWI to straighten out the concern on the alleged deficit then the bill and that bill was once again paid off. He later was made to understand that UWI want to charge the BVI for the operation of their open campus at HLSCC; based on the information provided he does not see the Government owing UWI $2.8mil and would like to see the issue resolved and not have the Government pay blindly. The Member stated that a complete forensic audit of all financial relations with UWI needs to be done forthwith because it seems as if UWI trend of billing the
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Government of the Virgin Islands leaves one to have serious doubts about their transparency in this manner. The Member for the First District once again strongly recommends that the Government do no to pay this alleged deficit until this forensic audit is done. 2291. The Member for the First District asked if the Power School would be introduced to the Primary Schools and when would the parents have access. The AgPS stated that the office is going through the process of getting parents trained to be able to access. 2292. The Member for the First District stated that he asked because he thinks its a powerful tool, as this has been proven at the secondary level. He asked for those parents who already have the training and would have children in the secondary schools would it be introduced this school year. 2293. The AgPSMEC stated that she cannot give an exact date on when it would be done; but she knows that things are in progress and they will be discussing it further. 2294. The Member for the First District asked if Teachers are having problems using the Power School programme, if they have access to the computers and if it is easy for them to access the programme. 2295. The AgCEO stated that as far as she knows they are accessing the programme. 2296. The AgPSMEC stated that there is still a problem with the overload when everyone signs on at the same time. Persons are dropping off and they are looking into the matter. 2297. The Member for the First District asked if the Department of Information and Technology (DoIT) would assist in fixing the problem. 2298. The AgPSMEC stated that they are still working with DoIT; but they did not get a chance to sit with the Minister to make decisions. However, there are discussions to be had with DoIT.
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2299. The Member for the First District asked who was the technical advisor for the companies who supplied the computers to the Teachers. 2300. The AgPSMEC stated that she is not 100% sure; but was made to understand that discussions were between DoIT and the then PSMEC. 2301. The Member for the First District asked if a copy of the contract for the suppliers could be provided to the SFC. He also asked about the number of suppliers. 2302. The AgPSMEC stated that there were four (4) suppliers and if the SFC would like to see copies of the contract, she would supply copies. 2303. The Member for the First District asked if the contracts were for equal amounts. 2304. The AgPSMEC stated that the contracts were for equal amounts for each Supplier. 2305. The Member for the First District asked that this Standing Finance Committee be supplied with a copy of the extract of the decision to supply lap top computers by the four companies in equal amounts provided that it was a Cabinet decision. 2306. The AgPSMEC stated that it was a Cabinet Decision for the Companies to supply the computers. 2307. The Member for the First District stated that it is important to note for the record that the process was done independent of the immediate former Minister of Education. He further stated that the record would verify that the original intent by DoIT was to give the contract of supplying computers to the Teachers to one supplier. One of the suppliers previously had made representation to the DG at the time about seemingly ongoing unfair practices by DoIT in the supplying of computers to the Government of the BVI. Cabinet made the decision to spread it out as long as the Government was getting value for money. One of the four suppliers selected by the Technical Arm of the Government was related to the former Minister. However the former Minister who was not a part of the qualifying, selection and technical aspects of the process.
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2308. The AgPSMEC wanted to take the opportunity to indicate the SFC the cost of the power school programme to date. She stated that the cost is $668,936.22 since its inception. 2309. The Member for the First District asked what all the stated amount entails. 2310. The AgPSMEC stated that it entails creation of a logo, cost of employing eight (8) persons to do data entry, minor repairs, creation of Ads, training, transportation, cost of computers, license fees and cost of ink. 2311. The Member for the First District stated that it was brought to his attention by his colleague that during his absence from the Territory there was a concern raised by a few Members about the supplying of computers to the Teachers and he would like to have the record reflect the correct information instead of misleading information seemingly aimed at character assassination. 2312. The Member for the Eighth District asked if there is an annual fee for the Power School programme and if there is a capacity in terms of users. 2313. The AgPMEC stated that there is an annual fee of $18,103.50; however, she is not sure if there is a capacity in terms of users, she would need to get additional information on that. 2314. The Member for the First District asked about the Alternative Secondary Alternative Programme (ASAP) and asked if there is a reason why the funds are being reduced. If the funding is enough for the programme. 2315. The AgPSMEC stated no they are not doing away with the programme; however, the amount in previous years was never fully used and there is a need to review the programme. They are currently in the process of doing that. The programme is currently under Head 400 - Subhead 62615 Alternative Secondary Alternative Programme .

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2316. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian sought clarity on cutting back on the budget for the ASAP. 2317. The AgPSMEC stated that they were looking at the fact that over the years the total amount was not used and there was need for monies in other areas. They also recognized that there is a need for serious review of the programme to make it more cost effective and more effective in terms of what it is doing for the children. 2318. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian asked how many Teachers are in the programme. 2319. The AgPSMEC stated that the number of Teachers varies from time to time and she is not sure how many there are currently; but she is told that there are twenty (20) parttime Teachers. 2320. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian stated that he is sure that they would come up with the right results and not short-changing persons for the programme. 2321. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that no one would be short-changed. 2322. The Member for the First District stated that I terms of increments there was an outstanding amount for the Bachelors programme due to the Teachers that completed the first Cohort of vision 2020. He asked if the financial aspect has been worked out between HR and the MoF for the Teachers and if there is funding for payment of the increments in the 2012 estimates. 2323. The AgAS stated that when she did the restructuring of the budget base on the increment cut it seems that there is sufficient funds that could facilitate payments of outstanding increments to the Teachers in question. 2324. The Member for the First District enquired of the feedback received from the Health and Family Life subject and asked if its effective.

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2325. The AgCEO stated that it is effective. There was a problem where Teachers didnt feel too confident on the section of sexuality. Some felt that the Guidance Officers should teach the section and during the summer of 2011 the Teachers were trained. They are trying to overcome the challenges. 2326. The Member for the First District asked if the Teachers and Principals gave feedback in terms of seeing improvement in the childrens choices because the subject is suppose to help them to be better their decision-makers. 2327. The AgCEO stated that the report is that the students benefitted from the programme. The feedback from the students who did the programme during the summer was positive; they indicated that they enjoyed the programme. However, there are still persons who do not like to teach the programme; but apart from that the programme is going ok. 2328. The Member for the Third District referred to the grade level initiative outlined the presentation and asked about its progress. 2329. The AgCEO stated that the Principals are now the coordinators of that programme. They have Teachers who help and the schemes would be sent to the Department to be sent out electronically. 2330. The Member for the First District stated that the Grade Level Initiative is about ensuring that all grades are doing the same work at the same time in all Public Primary Schools. Retired Teachers were appointed to work with current teachers so they could recommend how to move forward because it was found that all the schools were not doing the same thing. He asked how is the programme being monitored. 2331. The AgDCEO stated that monitoring is going on through Liaison Officers at the Schools, who are stationed within the Department of Education. There are also coordinators who look at schemes and ensure that the Liaison Officers get the information concerning the continuation of the programme.
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2332. The Member for the First District asked if the Top 3 Primary Schools Initiative is also being refined since he noticed that it did not have any activity rewarding those students during the midterm break of the Lent Term for this school year. 2333. The AgCEO stated that it has not been continued and it is being refined and revived. They are currently looking to have it annually and not termly so that more students could be accommodated in the programme. 2334. The Member for the First District asked about the Truancy problems at Elmore Stoutt High School and if there is still a heavy problem with truancy. 2335. The AgCEO stated that the Truancy is not a big problem. Lateness is the big problem because students are always late for school. She feels if parents are held accountable there would be a reduction in lateness. 2336. The Member for the First District asked about the funding for the Lets Get it TV show and asked if is discontinued. 2337. The AgDCEO stated that the programme cost $120,000 per term. That amount includes paying CBN, the Teachers, and Retired Educators, etc; and in 2011 Cabinet approved payment of $75.00 per session. It has been a very good programme and it may continue; but it is costly, therefore it is put on hold due to budgetary constraint. The review sessions will continue through a website that is currently being developed. 2338. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District asked how much did the review sessions cost. 2339. The AgDCEO stated that it cost approximately $1,800 per media house; all were not used. 2340. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District asked if there isnt a total cost and if the review sessions are ongoing.

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2341. The AGDCEO stated that she does not have a total cost; however the review sessions are not being broadcast through the media, they are trying to use their own initiative by having an e-bulletin page prepared so that parents could have access or hard copies would be provided at the Department of Education. 2342. The Member for the First District enquired about the line item for accreditation and asked if there is enough funding that the Department could continue the process or is there a need for a new line item. 2343. The AgCEO stated that there is a need for a new line item with money. 2344. The Member for the First District asked if the accreditation process could continue without funding or if it could be funded from another area. 2345. The AgCEO stated that it could be taken from other heads; but this is an important initiative that should be funded. 2346. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that there would be further discussions within the Ministry in regards to the accreditation initiative. 2347. The Member for the First District asked that the AgPMEC furnish for SFC copies of the Project Management Contract that was used to supervise the work ongoing major repair for the public schools along with a copy of the report that was done from a local engineering firm on the state of the Public Schools and a copy of the contract for the company who designed certain aspects of the Elmore Stout High School and any report that was forwarded. 2348. The Member for the First District wished the MECs team well for the rest of the school year. 2349. The AgPSMEC stated that she would like to bring to the attention of the SFC that under Head 410 - Subhead 62460 Eslyn Henley Richez Learning Center was added. Monies were allocated specifically for that school so that the needs of the students attending are met. In addition, the AgPSMEC stated that Head 410 - Subhead 65300 !"#$%#&$%&'%"#$%

 Purchase of Vehicle the vehicle used for special needs student is not working and monies have been spent on rentals. There is a need to look at replacing the present vehicle. 2350. The Member for the First District asked before the line item was included in the budget for the Eslyn Henley Richez Learning Center, where were funding paid from for the Centre. 2351. The AgPS stated that it was paid from Early Childhood and Alternative Secondary Education Subheads to meet the needs of the Eslyn Henley Richez Learning Center. 2352. The AgCEO asked if she could go through a list of corrections in the different heads that needs to be done. 2353. The Minister for Education and Culture asked what sort of corrections. 2354. The AgCEO stated that under Subhead 400 where it reads one post of Senior Accounts Officer upgraded; the word upgraded should be replaced by renamed. The budget should also reflect that there are two (2) posts of Maintenance Officers and not one (1) as stated. She further stated that they were requesting that the

Learning Support Assistant be moved to Head 425 since its at Elmore Stout High School. In the notation under Subhead 65010 - Wages it should read four (4) nonestablished employees. Under Subhead 62440 Examination Expenses the notes should read Provisions and marking of exams. Implementation of exam board and other examination expenses. Subhead 62610 Local History the notes should read Provisions covers material for teaching local history at primary and secondary level. The notes for Subhead 62910 Training Expenses should read in-service training for teaching at HLSCC and other tertiary institutions and they are requesting $65,000 to cover that since the current funding does not cover the entire year. 2355. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District thanked the AgPSMEC and her team for coming and giving information to the SFC and wished them all the best. !"#$%#&!%&'%"#$%

HEAD 415 Present:

DEPARTMENT OF CULTURE

Mrs. Brenda Lettsome-Tye Dr. Marcia Potter

Ag. Director of Culture (AgDC) Ag. Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Education & Culture (AgPSEC)

Ms. Tasha Bertie

Ag. Deputy Secretary, Ministry of Education & Culture (AgDSEC)

Mrs. C. Jovita Scatliffe

Ag. Finance & Planning Officer, Ministry of Education & Culture (Ag. FPOEC)

Ms. Athena Maduro Ms. Stacy Brewley

Administrative Officer/Department of Culture Ag. Senior Accounts Officer, Ministry of Education & Culture (SAOEC)

2356. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District welcomed the team from the Department of Culture and asked that they state their names for the record to which they complied. 2357. The AgDC gave a brief opening presentation. 2358. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian suggested that bills be paid with this check received in the amount of $197,117.25 at the VI Festival and Fairs Checking Account. The AgDC indicated that the check was deposited on her lunch hour of the same day. 2359. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked how do you measure the cost of festival in relation to culture, is the cost justified, is the investment worth what we put into it?

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2360. The AgDC indicated that festival has been removed very far from our culture, the way it has been celebrated recently; the culture needs to be put back into our emancipation celebrations, thats a personal opinion. Based on that view, I dont think its cost effective because if we are not promoting our culture in festival, and were spending all this money, then where is it going and who benefits in the end? We need to remember why we are celebrating; its an emancipation celebration not a carnival. We have to get back to the reason why we celebrate. I think the cost is exorbitant for the product we get on hand. 2361. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked whether we are at a point where we need to revisit and review how we promote festival in an effort to reduce costs. The AgDC replied yes. 2362. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked is it correct that you said you would request quotations prior to any sub-committees being given funds for spending? The AgDC replied yes. 2363. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked why there was approximately $400,000.00 outstanding for vendors that provided the stage, lights and sounds in relation to the 2011 Festival celebrations. He further stated that these are the biggest outstanding invoices that we have on the list. The AgDC replied it appears that those measures were not in place at last festival. 2364. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if we have $197,112.75 in the checking account. Can we try to pay off the smaller bills with the amount in the checking account? The AgDC replied yes, weve been trying to pay off smaller persons, the last check available was just received and we deposited it at 2:00 p.m. today. 2365. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what percentage of what is collected leaves the territory. The AgDC replied I do not have those figures.

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2366. The Member for the Sixth District stated that during the last two years there were more local bands and artists in the festival village as opposed to international artists? The AgDC replied yes when I think of festival I do not specifically think of Road Town village, it includes all three venues, I think of Road Town, East End and Carrot Bay in its entirety so when I speak to that, that is what I am really speaking to. 2367. The Member for the First District stated that he supports the measures outlined in the standing finance notes for 2012 by 90%. Page 4 of the report, item 14 (a) contains

the 10% he does not agree with which states the VIFFC is to plan all festivals including East End/Long Look and Carrot Bay celebrations. What do you mean by plan? The AgDC replied there are chair persons for those subcommittees however, the main committee (VIFFC) is usually not aware of what is planned by these subcommittees as the main subcommittee is not aware of what is being done. 2368. The Member for the First District asked are we saying that they are going to plan and then say this is what will be done or will they bring their suggestions for discussions? The AgDC replied more involvement of the Virgin Islands Festival & Fairs Committee (VIFFC) needs to be into whatever is happening in these sub-committees. I dont expect them (VIFFC) to make a plan and make the sub committees do it. Any planning done in the subcommittees should be reported to and monitored by the main committee. 2369. The Member for the First District stated that usually EE/LL and Carrot Bay are not the main culprits. The AgDC replied I do not have outstanding invoices for EE/LL or Carrot Bay. These are the invoices I received when I assumed the post. I have no

idea what the outstanding invoices for EE/LL and Carrot Bay are at this time. 2370. The Member for the First District asked did you check the chairman of EE/LL and Carrot Bay to see if they have outstanding balances. The AgDC replied I will meet with EE/LL (Ms. Warrican) to see what outstanding balances they have and I have not gotten to Mr. Stuart Donovan for Carrot Bay Committee.
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2371. The Minister for Education and Culture suggested that the word plan be changed to work with on page 4 14a. That is really what we should be doing. 2372. The Member for the First District stated that a governmental decision was made to have the festival taken care of and spare headed by the Road Town festival subcommittee, however, in shock to the Minister of the Subject without prior notification, it was announced in the honorable house that there would be no queen show until November. The Minister of the day realized that this could not work since its an integral part of the festival activities as a result, last minute efforts were made to pay just a stipend to get the works done, it was not the norm but had to be done to save the day all payments were documented. 2373. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked how was the organiser paid? The AgDC replied according to the checking book she was paid through the Festival & Fairs Committee checking account. 2374. The Member for the Sixth District asked if she is fully paid. The AgDC replied I dont know what the estimated budget was. I only know what I saw in the check book. 2375. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what was she paid? The AgDC replied approximately $87,000 plus was paid in total. 2376. The Member for the First District stated that the show was run from the company UMI to be reimbursed, that full money did not go to Ms. ONeal. I am commending the efforts to get it handled, when I became the Minister, Festival was up to $2.3 million and we got it down to $1.6 million. It still needs a lot more work to be done. 2377. The Member for the Sixth District asked about last years misunderstanding with monies, what happened to those monies was the monies turned over the Festival and Fairs Committee. The AgDC replied I was not present and therefore cannot speak to that question.
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2378. The Member for the First District stated that the monies were turned over and the agreement to pay them the money was honoured by the Chairperson. The point was that if they turn it over will I get the money to pay the bills and it was turned over. That is why the record shows how much was paid. 2379. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if the various subcommittees were given grants, why are we are getting bills over and above the grants. If we continue to receive bills over and above we will not break the cycle because all the country continues to do is pay the bills. I am a tax payer who gets irritated to see my money going to waste. 2380. The Minister for Health and Social Development made a suggestion that the Chairman or Acting Director should make an announcement on the radio or television stating that unless an official Purchase Order is given for goods and services from the Festival and Fairs Committee, that vendors should not deliver foods and services as they may run the risk of not getting paid. 2381. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked about subhead 62414 Grant to Festival and Fairs Committee, tell us how these funds are broken down in terms of the grant. The AgDC replied: EE/LL Committee Virgin Gorda Committee Carrot Bay Committee $60,000 $60,000 $60,000

2382. There is no figure attached to the rest of them (Jost Van Dyke, Brewers Bay and Road Town) Brewers Bay Jost Van Dyke (Foxy Boat Regatta) $15,000 $15,000

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2383. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked is it fair to say that Road Town gets the biggest chunk of the pie? The AgDC replied I have not seen a specific figure assigned to Road Town. 2384. The Member for the First District stated for the record that realistically the monies allocated for Festival, is a recurring statement. t cannot run festival. We need to break down the amount of Festival but the amount placed there cannot run Festival. We need to put a realistic figure there. Festival monies need to be increased to at least $1.2 million dollars; a realistic figure needs to be budgeted for. 2385. The AgDC asked how we are going to pay for Festival 2012 when we already have these entire outstanding bills and as noted we only have $567,400 to go towards the running of all Festivals for this year. 2386. The Member for the Third District asked what qualifies an activity to become eligible for a festival grant. 2387. The Premier stated that there must be some way to avoid receiving bills in February 2012 for August 2011, we need to make the public aware that any bills which are sent but not authorized will not be accepted. 2388. The Minister for Education and Culture said that we will make sure in Festival 2012 that we get our hands around it. 2389. The Member for the Sixth District asked when was the list received? The AgDC replied Friday 17 February 2012 @ 5:30 p.m. Along with that list, I received the package of supporting invoices, and I have in my possession invoices from 2008. It is my understanding they have been rolling over every year. They have been sent forward yearly but not paid. 2390. The Minister for Health and Social Development made a recommendation that the Minister of Education and Culture should consider the negotiation of the old bills. 2391. The Minister for Education and Culture thanked the panel. !"#$%#&*%&'%"#$%

2392. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District thanked the panel for coming to the SFC and answering all questions from Members.

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HEAD 425 Present:

EDUCATION (ELMORE STOUTT HIGH SCHOOL)

Ms. Melissa Amey Mr. Pete Smith

Principal, Elmore Stoutt High School Senior Administrative Officer, (ESHS) Elmore Stoutt High School (SAO/ESHS)

Dr. Marcia Potter

Ag. Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Education, Ministry of Education & Culture and Culture (AgPSEC)

Ms. Tasha Bertie

Ag. Deputy Secretary, Ministry of Culture (AgDSEC)

Education and

Mrs. C. Jovita Scatliffe

Ag. Financial and Planning Officer, Ministry of Education & Culture (AgFPOEC)

2393. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District welcomed the panel to the deliberation, and requested that they state their names for the record. The panel complied. 2394. The Principal, ESHS highlighted activities and achievements the ESHS that included: 1) the creation of a health group that was created in conjunction with the health department for the benefit of students who were slightly overweight in a effort to combat health diseases that are becoming prevalent, 2) renovations were done to the history and math blocks, 3) professional development twice per month 4) repairs were being complete to the B Block which included the library, 4) started village Parent Teacher Association (PTA) meetings to make teachers more accessible to parents, 5) created Form PTAs so there were five PTAs in addition to the general executive PTA, and 6) last year introduced two new classes, agricultural science and physical education, which were elective classes for senior students. There were very positive achievements for the agricultural science students who won best school !"#$%#&"%&'%"#$%

garden and second place the agricultural essay competition, as well as, individual first place for a teacher who won best backyard garden and a student who won youngest farmer of the year. 2395. The Principal, ESHS, also stated that last year emphasis was placed on academics by varying assessments in the use of Powerschool which resulted in a seven percent increase in the honor roll. She also stated that there was an increase in the number students who took the Caribbean Examination Council (CXC) exams and the number of subjects that each student actually took. 2396. The Principal, ESHS further stated that the plans for the remainder of the school year was to give the front of the school a facelift, replace furniture in the business labs, and start public education of parents and the community regarding the Education Act and the school rules. 2397. The Principal, ESHS stated that there were some issues and challenges and referred to subhead 61220 Electricity and noted that the ESHS owed over $500K to the BVI Electricity Corporation. She said that meetings were held with the staff to promote turning off AC units, lights, and fans, particularly when leaving the classrooms and indicated that on the weekends the buildings are checked to ensure that the aforementioned are turned off. Changing to energy saving light bulbs was a

consideration in efforts to reduce the electricity output of the ESHS. 2398. The Principal, ESHS also referred to subhead 61340 Furniture and Fixtures and stated that quite a bit of furniture was outdated and would expect changes in that area between now and September 2012. 2399. The Principal, ESHS referred to subhead 61250 School Transportation and stated that the suggested budget cut would cause serious challenges, as the school would have to reduce the number of students it caters to from 643 to 567. 2400. The Principal, ESHS referred to subhead 62415 Security and stated that with the suggested budget cut the school would have to reduce the number of security guards !"#$%#'$%&'%"#$%

and this would pose serious challenges as it relates to securing the premises and the number of students attending ESHS. She spoke to the fencing issue, as it did not allow for the students to be secure, and have experienced situations where students have left the school campus by jumping the fence. She stated that persons in the community would call and complain/report that they saw students leaving campus. She indicated that there are areas on campus whereby students can leave and return without anyone knowing. 2401. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the vision for addressing all the challenges at ESHS. The Principal, ESHS parental involvement was needed as the school prepared students to be positive human resources for the Territory and to make the school successful. 2402. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked how parental involvement would be proposed. The Principal, ESHS indicated that there was discussion with the Social Development Department to organise workshops for parents. She clarified that these workshops would be separate from PTAs. She stated that the workshops would involve talking to the parents about what the students would require from them as parents to make their children successful. 2403. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian referred to the challenges of transportation mentioned earlier and enquired if consideration was given to having a discussion with the bus drivers to reduce their transportation costs/rates due to the poor economy and the financial challenges of the government so that the students needing transportation would not be adversely affected. 2404. The Principal, ESHS indicated that there was no effort made to ask bus drivers to lower their transportation costs because the last rate change was ten years ago and because gas and insurance rates had gradually increased over the years. She stated that it was time for the rates to increase for the parents. She explained that the current rate was $80.00 per student, per month and that Government subsidised that rate by paying $50.00 per student, per month; the parent was responsible for only $30.00 per
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month. She suggested a 50/50 split where the Government would subsidise at the rate of $40.00, and parents would be responsible for $40.00 per month, referring to the wording of the agreement for transportation services. 2405. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that he did not realise that there was not a rate increase for the bus drivers for such a long period. He noted that the bus drivers were in fact doing their part and that it was time to appeal to the parents and enquired how that would be done. 2406. The Principal, ESHS reported that the bus drivers were only collecting the portion of the transportation costs that the Government subsidised per month and that many parents were not paying their portion of the transportation costs to the bus drivers. She continued to explain that once the bus driver refused to allow the student on the bus due to nonpayment, the parent would then switch the child to another bus and continue the cycle of nonpayment. In short, the bus drivers are experiencing

challenges collecting payment from parents. 2407. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian requested that the list of the providers be made available. He also suggested that the issues/challenges regarding the

transportation of students by the bus drivers be discussed at the next PTA meeting and stress to the parents that they be accountable for their portion of the transportation fees. 2408. The Senior Administrative Officer (SAO), ESHS stated bus drivers had been complaining for years that parents are not paying their portion of the transportation fees. He referenced some measures that would be fair to the parents, school and especially to the bus drivers who hadnt received any increase in rates for ten years. He said a decision was made by the then Minister of Education to increase the governments portion of the transportation fees and not the parents portion, and since then no increases had been made therefore an amendment would have to be made by government now to increase the parents portion by $10.00 thus increasing potion of the transportation fees to $40.00, reduce the governments portion to $40.00; that
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would make it an 50/50 split and the drivers would still be collecting $80.00 per month, per child. He continued that if it were to be looked at as being fair to the drivers, then the governments portion would remain the same and the parents portion would be increased to $50.00, which would in turn provide a $20.00 overall increase to each driver per month, per child, factoring in the increased cost of gas, etc. SAO/ESHS further stated that either way an appeal would have to be made to parents to be responsible for the $40.00 or $50.00 so that the government would not have to inject anymore funds. 2409. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District enquired how long the fee structure had been in place. The SAO/ESHS responded that the current transportation fee structure had been in place for over ten years. He explained that prior to that, the fee was $60.00 and it was split evenly with government and parents responsible for $30.00 each. 2410. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District enquired about the method in place for bus drivers to collect the parents portion of the transportation fees. The SAO/ESHS responded that the parents paid the bus drivers directly with no interference from government. He stated that some parents would pay religiously, while some parents would now and again, and other parents would never pay. He continued that some parents would change their child to a different bus driver each year to perpetuate the cycle of nonpayment for the entire period of the childs high school career. 2411. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District asked if there were any changes in terms of the bus drivers agreement to provide service. The SAO/ESHS stated that while there were a few changes (additions and deletions) in drivers that the core of bus drivers providing services remained for the most part had unchanged over the years. 2412. The Principal, ESHS stated that last year village PTAs were started and the matter of bus drivers were discussed in great detail including getting the students to school in a
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timely manner as well as timely payment by parents to the bus drivers. She stated that parents were encouraged to pay their transportation fees on time and to let the bus drivers know when they (parents) were having difficulties making timely payments. She declared that this subject will again be brought up at the next set of PTAs. 2413. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired what has been the benefits of village PTAs and if it will continue. The Principal, ESHS responded that while village PTAs were only initiated last school year and were continued this school year, there has been an increase in attendance of parents who did not ordinarily come all the way to town for PTAs, whether due to transportation challenges or work. She further stated that there was a decrease in attendance for the current school year when compared to last school year, but that the village PTAs will continue mainly o give parents who normally did not attend PTAs the opportunity. She continued that this year Capoons Bay was going to be targeted to access that cross-section of parents, in addition to the current locations of West End, Sea Cows Bay, East End/Long Look, and Road Town. 2414. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated the electricity consumption was of serious concern and enquired why there was such a large outstanding amount. He also noted that only $200K was allocated per year when it consistently exceeds that amount each year and enquired why a more realistic figure is not allocated. 2415. The Principal, ESHS stated that she did not know if she had the power to allocate the funding that is necessary in that area. She further stated that the school has grown in terms of population and its needs. As an example, she cited the business department that had a need for more computers which in turn increased the consumption of electricity. She indicated that since having discussions with the staff that there had been more cooperative and conscious efforts made to reduce energy consumption by turning off fans, etc. 2416. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian referred to the month by month breakdown of electricity bills provided on behalf of ESHS and asked why not increase the budget
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by 50% and allocate $400K to the electricity subhead, which was a more representative figure based on actual consumption/ expenditure. 2417. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that if this was done some other area of the budget would suffer. 2418. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian referenced the difficulties mentioned earlier by the Principal, ESHS about how the proposed budgets cuts to subhead 62415 security services would pose challenges at the school. He enquired how many companies are providing security services to the ESHS and the name of the companies. The Principal, ESHS responded that only one security company, namely Top Priority, provided security for the ESHS. 2419. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if the rates for security services coverage could be renegotiated. The Principal, ESHS responded that discussions were held with Top Priority and the reduction of security guards was suggested, but that was not a favourable suggestion because the security guards were the necessary additional eyes and ears of the school, while the teachers and administration attend to their daily tasks. She referred to the cameras that were in place at the school did not cover all locations/areas of the school and that there are issues that the guards can solve just by their physical presence n campus. She also referred to the gaps in the fencing where students, as well as other persons, could enter and exit at will, and that the guards were necessary to monitor those locations. 2420. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired based on the budgeted reduction in the allocation, what would be the number of the reduction of security guards. The Principal, ESHS responded that the deduction would be three: two guards during the day and one in the evenings. 2421. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked why there was an increase in the number of students registered for CXC Examinations for 2012. The Principal, ESHS stated that it was due to encouragement, but also due to attending workshops about
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the CXC examination process. She went on to explain that students who took certain classes would qualify to take other exams. For example, in terms of science, a student who was took biology, chemistry, or physics could take the integrated science exam without doing an additional School Based Assessment (SBA). The same applied in business if a student took office administration or principles of business, he/she could take the keyboarding exam with additional SBA. Information gathered in those workshops was passed to the teachers and students. 2422. The Principal, ESHS stated that for 2012 there were 141 students registered for the CXC Examinations compared to 131 in 2011. She stated that this was considered a large increase because there were only 186 seniors last year, whereas this year there was 200 seniors. She added that this year students were taking 744 individual

assessment subject exams as compared to 582 taken in 2011. 2423. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District asked if there was still a magazine printed by the ESHS and how it was circulated. The Principal, ESHS responded that there was a school newspaper prepared by a student body under the supervision of an English teacher, which was printed once a month and circulated via Standpoint Newspaper as an insert. 2424. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if there was a policy regarding motorbikes. The Principal, ESHS responded that there was not a policy concerning motorbikes, but had noticed that more students were using motorbikes as their preferred mode of transportation. She stated that motorbikes should not be brought on the campus because the school would then become responsible for their care, particularly if another student damaged one. She continued that it would create added issues for administration. She stated that to date no issues/complaints had arisen, which was why much thought had not been given to the matter. 2425. Subhead 61120 Books and Subscriptions

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2426. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian noted that there was a reduction in the subhead an enquired why. The Principal, ESHS stated that while the proposed budgeted amount was insufficient that the school will work with amount. She stated that the school was in the process of getting an accurate inventory to avoid purchasing more books than what was actually needed. She explained that because the books are sold lower than their actual cost at ESHS, students from other schools and even people from different islands purchased books from ESHS. She proposed that the books at ESHS should be sold at a higher rate. 2427. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if the books ordered by ESHS were specifically for its student population. The Principal, ESHS responded confirmed that books ordered were to cater to the ESHS population. 2428. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if the ESHS students were not being shortchanged if the books were being sold to students not attending ESHS. 2429. The Principal, ESHS responded that it was very difficult to differentiate among the parents who which child they were purchasing books on behalf of. She said that ESHS tried to cater to the students by allowing them to purchase their books during the summer so that students can be adequately prepared for the new school year. She maintained however, that the books were not always purchased by the students and if there were more parental involvement the school would be able to better identify parents to their respective child(ren). She declared that due to the lack of

involvement of parents, the school was not sure who was purchasing the books. She cited an example of a relative that may come to purchase books on behalf of a parent that could not come and indicated that it would be very difficult to deny the purchase of books in a situation such as that. 2430. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District asked for a further explanation about parents from other islands outside the Territory purchasing books at ESHS. The Principal, ESHS explained that it has been her understanding that it has
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been happening for about two to three years due to the cost of books being sold well below market value at ESHS. 2431. The SAO/ESHS added that books are sold at approximately 60% below their actual cost and that word had spread that the books at ESHS are the cheapest. He cited an example of a student buying a book at ESHS and giving it to his cousin who went to different school in the BVI or sending the book down island to a cousin who used the same book. He stated that even if there was an identification system in place and ESHS student can still buy the book for someone who is not an ESHS student. He stated that it is difficult to differentiate who should and should not be buying a book. 2432. The Member for the Eighth District stated that if the government was subsidizing the books at the school then they needed to go to the intended recipients. He further stated that a system must be developed because the government could not continue to subsidize books at 60% and the books were going elsewhere. He reiterated that a system was needed to stop the wastage of government funds and find ways to identify the purchase of books to each ESHS student. 2433. The SAO/ESHS stated that the problem with the system is the process of purchasing books. He continued to state that the JDE system was only concerned with the collection of revenue and could not track or report where the books were going or which form the child was in. He stated that the school has requested a point of sale (POS) system which will make the transactions easier and the inventory of the books easier as well. However, he stated that Treasury Department indicated that it must be run directly from the JDE system. He explained that the school was to purchase another system to monitor where the books were going, it would mean the process for purchasing and registering books would be more complicated. 2434. The Member for the Eighth District suggested that a spreadsheet programme, in the absence of a POS system, should be sufficient to simultaneously track books to students. SAO/ESHS responded that in real-time it would take up too much time to do it as suggested.
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2435. The Member for the Eighth District enquired if there was a bookstore on campus. The SAO/ESHS responded that there was not a bookstore on the ESHS campus. The SAO/ESHS stated that the issue of space continued to plague the ESHS. He indicated that anytime there was an idea to improve a system at the school (i.e. book programme) there would be an issue for space and the displacement of one thing in order to accommodate something else. He stated that over the last four years the ESHS has tried to implement the book programme by a different method but to no avail. So while a bookstore would be an ideal solution there was no space on the campus to implement the initiative. 2436. The Member for the Eighth District stated that in the absence of a bookstore the use of technology like the computer, continue to break down barriers and that parents could be referred to Amazon.com to purchase books for their children similar to how they access Powerschool to check their childrens grades. He stressed utilizing the tools that we had. The SAO/ESHS stated that changes would have to be implemented at the policy level. 2437. The Member for the Eighth District stated that the recommendations for policy changes to the policy makers would have to come forward first. 2438. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired how was the contract for security services for ESHS was awarded. 2439. The SAO/ESHS explained that four years ago the ESHS was encountering serious problems with the current security firm and decided to re-evaluated what stipulation needed to be put in place for a security system at ESHS, some of which were uniforms, radios, paying a fair wage rate, etc. He stated that the stipulations were included in the tendering process for a contract to be awarded for school security. However, he stated that to this date a contract had not been signed and therefore the current security firm had continued to operate on a month-to-month basis for the last four years. He added that the same security firm implemented the camera system at the school at their own cost.
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2440. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian sought clarification on whether the request for security services for the ESHS was tendered. The SAO/ESHS responded that the request for security services at ESHS went through the full tendering process. 2441. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if only one company responded to the tender. The SAO/ESHS responded that three or four companies submitted bids, including Top Priority Security which was awarded the contract but never signed the contract. 2442. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian suggested that the tendering process begin again. 2443. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired about the term of the contract. The SAO/ESHS stated that the contract was a two year contract and that it had been four years since the performance of the contract began. 2444. The Member for the First District asked how long the SAO/ESHS had been at ESHS. The SAO/ESHS responded that he had been the SAO at ESHS since 2006 and had been working with secondary school budgets since 1994. 2445. The Member for the First District enquired, if based on history, the situation with electricity was always a problem in terms of having the right amount to pay electricity from back then to now. 2446. The SAO/ESHS responded that the electricity problem existed from the time the new building was built. He stated that one of the major problems was that as years passed and new systems were brought on stream at the ESHS, no funds were awarded for the maintenance of those systems, so thus the school had been doing more with less or with the same monies for many years. 2447. The Member for the First District enquired if the amount budgeted for electricity was always less than the actual electrical bills. The SAO/ESHS responded in the

affirmative and added that representation had been made on behalf of the ESHS
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regarding the electrical situation. He referred to the spreadsheet that ESHS had been used for years to track monthly electricity bills, and stated that it had been brought to the attention of standing finance every year to be addressed. 2448. The Member for the First District enquired if SAO/ESHS had encountered this situation regarding electricity for as long as he had been dealing with school budgets, whether it was at the ESHS or other schools. The SAO/ESHS responded in the affirmative. 2449. The Member for the First District enquired if there were any provisions to acquire any more cameras for the high school to cover all the blind spots on the ESHS campus. The Principal, ESHS replied that conversations were held with Top Priority regarding acquiring more cameras. She further stated that the cameras currently on campus were donated and maintained by Top Priority. She concluded that it was a matter of funding to obtain more cameras. 2450. The Member for the First District enquired if the Ministry of Education and Culture did not have any contract with Top Priority to obtain any more cameras for the blind spot areas. The AgFPOEC replied that a contract was signed and that it was at the MOF currently awaiting the contractors good standing certificate that is still outstanding to date. 2451. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District enquired how long ago was the contract signed. AgFPOEC answered that the contract was signed last year 2011 between August and October. 2452. The Member for the First District enquired of the MEC will be following up on the matter even if another supplier was identified. The AgPSEC stated that the matter will be followed up. 2453. The Member for the First District enquired what contributing factors were for the seven percent (7%) increase of students making the honor roll. The Principal, ESHS stated that for the 2010-2011 school year, the focus was mainly placed on academics, !"#$%#(!%&'%"#$%

and after the first term, students in Forms 1-4 who were failing one to four classes were identified and letters were sent to their parents. In addition, meetings were held with parents by Form and tutoring was organised by the National Honor Society to assist those students who were failing. For the senior students, she stated that

Powerschool was used to identify when a student did not perform well in a particular assessment parents were notified immediately. She concluded that ESHS

communication improved and was much more active. She noted that the students bought into all the academic activities too. 2454. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired if academics were still the focus and if the same results were anticipated for the 2011-2012 school year. 2455. The Principal, ESHS stated that while academics were still the focus that she did not expect the same results this year as the previous school year. She clarified by stating that she did expect the same results for the lower forms but not with the senior students who seemed to have a very lackadaisical attitude. She added that the parents of the senior students also displayed the same attitude. She indicated that compared to the high attendance of parents last January 2011, only than half parents for fourth and fifth form students attended meetings in January 2012. She stated that these meetings were vital because the information was shared with parents and students that would lead to students success. 2456. The Principal, ESHS stated that last school year was first time that ESHS shared with senior students exactly how the MECs calculation for graduation was done; in the past students only knew that they needed to pass. She further stated that the students were offered the actual spreadsheet used for graduation in an attempt to put the power in their respective hands to achieve the outcome that they wanted. She stated that the Fifth-formers On Ultimate Course to Ultimate Success (FOCUS) programme was started last school year and teachers were required to provide one hour of free tutoring after school. She noted that even students who were doing well attended the FOCUS programme last year. She indicated that students were identified and at the meeting
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with parents in January they provided with written information stating that child was at risk for failing a particular class and encouraged the parents to have their child attend FOCUS classes. She stated that this school year the information could not be shared with parents because they did not attend the meeting. She added that teachers indicated that sometimes only one student, if any, would attend a FOCUS class. She concluded that she did not expect the same outcome as last year, as students were only just coming to get the information that they should have had since last September. 2457. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if it was because of parents lack of involvement why there was a decrease this school year as compared to last school year school year and why the students were so lackadaisical. The Principal, ESHS responded in the affirmative and added that less than 25 of the 200 fifth form students opted to get the spreadsheet this year as compared to 175 of 186 students last school year who got the spreadsheet. 2458. The Member for the First District enquired if the methodology used last school year to motivate students be replicated. The Principal, ESHS agreed. 2459. The LOP enquired about the staffing of the ESHS and if there was a need for additional staffing. He stated that there needs to be changes at the school and referred to the certification of teachers. He added that they should take refresher courses to keep up to date with changes occurring in education throughout the world today. The LOP also asked if ESHS was adopted by a business as he felt that initiative would help students get ahead. 2460. The Principal, ESHS stated that with the current system the ESHS had sufficient teachers, but the addition of teacher aides and other resource persons would be of great benefit. She also stated that the ESHS was not adopted and explained that the adopt-a-school initiative was established mainly for the primary schools and not secondary schools.
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2461. The LOP stated that while it was started at the primary schools, it was his understanding that the Bregado Flax Educational Complex Secondary (BFEC) School was recently adopted. The AgPSEC confirmed that the BFEC Secondary was

recently adopted and that the adopt-a-school was initially a primary school initiative. She stated that no business/organization had come forward to adopt the ESHS to date. 2462. The Member for the Sixth District enquired how the school lunch programme was progressing. 2463. The Principal, ESHS replied that some of the students complained in the beginning and that she knew of approximately 15 students who had left the premises during lunch. In terms of problems that occurred during the lunch period like bullying, she stated, had been resolved by assigning senior and junior students separate lunch periods. She added that surprisingly the campus was much quieter with students on the campus, than when they all went for lunch at the same time, mainly off campus. As regards the vendors, the Principal, ESHS stated that Ms. Deanne Davies was the new supervisor for the lunch programme and that she (Ms. Davies) had met with the venders and addressed issues that included: appearance, use of hairnets, providing a better balanced meal for the students, displaying of menu display with pricing. She stated that student complaints had decreased gradually and the teachers had to adjust to their varying lunch hours. She indicated that the scheduling of classes had also changed to accommodate the lunch programme in terms of the number and duration of classes. She concluded by stating that with the demands and changes due to the lunch programme, changing the school hours should be considered. 2464. The Member for the Sixth District asked what percentage of students participated in the lunch programme. The Principal, ESHS responded that approximately 100 students brought their lunch to school and over 1200 students bought their lunch each day. She added that currently the lunch programme did not cater to the vegetarian students who would often forgo lunch because there was nothing of their liking to eat. She stated that the matter was being addressed.
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Subhead 61340 Furniture and Fixtures 2465. The Member for the Sixth District enquired if the estimated funding allocated under this subhead was enough. The Principal, ESHS replied that the funding allocated was insufficient. She stated the Minister for Education and Culture was aware of the mould issue that the ESHS was encountering. She also stated that the furniture for the Business Lab had served its time and must be replaced as it had been there since the building was erected in 1994. She added that replacing the furniture for only the Business Lab could deplete the subhead. 2466. The Member for the Sixth District enquired if there were any other major outstanding debt owed, other than to the BVI Electricity Corporation. The Principal, ESHS stated that she was not aware of other major outstanding debt owed. 2467. The Member for the Eighth District enquired if the lunch programme was subsidized by ESHS or if the vendors paid a fee to operate on campus? The Principal, ESHS replied that the lunch programme was not subsidised. The AgPSEC stated that when the lunch programme was instituted the plan was that the first term the vendor would not pay and that moving into the second terms a fee was to be assessed thereafter, however that aspect had not been resolved to date. 2468. The Member for the Sixth District stated that there was only a certain amount that a student could be charged for lunch (approximately three to five dollars) and noted that it would be difficult for vendors to pay a fee based on their revenue. 2469. The Minister for Education and Culture asked how many vendors are on campus. The Principal, ESHS responded that there were 15 vendors on campus, so the ratio would be less than 100 students to each vendor. She further stated that each student chose which vendor they visited, so some vendors may be doing well while other would just be breaking even. 2470. The Member for the Eighth District enquired if the ESHS was responsible for maintain the area where the vendors operate. The Principal, ESHS stated that the !"#$%#(#%&'%"#$%

ESHS is responsible for maintaining the areas. She stated the vendors who are located directly around the tents are doing a good job of keeping the area clean. 2471. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District asked if there were always 15 vendors on campus. The Principal, ESHS stated that there were initially over 20 vendors on campus. 2472. The Member for the Eighth District stated that the vendors were providing an invaluable service and suggested that even if the vendors were not being charged that they keep the surrounding areas clean. 2473. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired who built the vending stalls. The AgFPOEC replied that the stalls were built by Anytime International. 2474. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked who funded the cost to build the vending stalls and the cost. The AgFPOEC responded that the Ministry of Education funded the cost in the amount of approximately $50K dollars.
2475. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked who supplies electricity and water. The AgFPOEC responded that no electricity bills were submitted to the MEC as yet.

2476. The Principal, ESHS replied that the school absorbs those costs. She further added that stalls did not have running water. She stated that Environmental Health Division had evaluated each vendor and that each vendor had access to their own supply water. She indicated that the cost of running water was not yet an issue. 2477. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that a policy needed to be formalized with vendors to ensure who would be responsible for water and electricity similar to what is done in other places. 2478. The Member for the Third District stated that just next door in the USVI the government has been providing lunch in school for all students since the beginning of time. He stated that the BVI has not been serious about taking care of our children in school. He stated that it is difficult for our children to excel and be competitive !"#$%#()%&'%"#$%

without the proper means in place to do so.

He stated that it should not be a

competition for vendors at the ESHS; that government should be providing a balanced meal for students so that they can in turn concentrate on their work rather than worrying about what they were going to eat. 2479. The Principal, ESHS replied that the table and chairs were owned by Ernest Scatliffe (Popeyes). 2480. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if the rent was being paid for the table and chairs. The AgPSEC stated that the rent for the table and chairs were outstanding. 2481. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired how much was the outstanding rent and how long had it been outstanding. The AgPSEC stated that the original

agreement was that the chairs and tables for the lunch programme would have been bought by the government and the rentals from Mr. Scatliffe would have been returned to him. She further stated that tables and chairs had not arrived on island yet and Mr. Scatliffes rentals had been at the ESHS since September 2011. She stated that Mr. Scatliffe informed her that if he was to charge for the rental of table and chairs that the amount owed was over $303K. 2482. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired how long ago was the table and chairs ordered. The AgPSEC answered that the table and chairs were ordered since October 2011. 2483. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired about the value of the contract for the table and chairs. The AgFPOEC stated that contract was approximately $20K but that as combined with another contract. 2484. The Minister for Education and Culture asked when was the contract signed for the tables and chairs. The AgFPOEC answered that the contract was signed between September and October 2011.

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2485. The Minister for Education and Culture asked what the time of delivery as stated in the contract. The AgFPOEC stated that the delivery time given by the contractor was four to six weeks but that he was actually given three months for delivery on the contract. 2486. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired if the three months had already elapsed, and if the contractor had been paid any funds, and if so, how much. The AgFPOEC responded that the three months for delivery on the contract had elapsed and approximately 60% 70% was already paid on the contract. 2487. The Member for the Third District sought clarification on the amount owed to date to Mr. Scatliffe for the rental of tables and chairs, as it seemed unclear whether the MEC was actually charged by Mr. Scatliffe. 2488. The Minister for Education and Culture clarified that the bill at the MEC was in fact over $300K based on the rental arrangement. The AgPSEC further clarified that the bill in the MEC was $303K and stated that in discussions with Mr. Scatliffe, he indicated that he would be willing to negotiate for a lower rate to be paid and that he did expect some payment. 2489. The Member for the Third District asked if Mr. Scatliffe himself said if he was to charge. The AgPSEC stated that she said if he was to charge based on the fact that he said he would negotiate. amount it would be $300K plus. 2490. The Minister for Education and Culture asked how much the MEC owe Mr. Scatliffe for the use of his tables and chairs. The AgPSEC answered $303K plus. 2491. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District enquired if there were other charges owed Mr. Scatliffe. The AgPSEC responded that there was not. 2492. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that when programmes are being implemented that they should be properly structural and all agreements should be in
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She further stated that if he was to charge the full

place. He further stated that he expected that the school lunch programme would cost the taxpayers perhaps more than anticipated. 2493. The Member for the First District stated that that the school lunch programme was organised as much as it could seeing that it was a new initiative. He further stated that when the contract was signed for the tables and chairs, based on government bureaucracy, would need to be verified versus when the money was approved. He opined that at that time it was no fault of the MEC. He stated that a copy of the contract should be produced so the actual date it was signed could be verified, and in addition, a copy of the Cabinet extract would prove when it was approved. 2494. The Member for the First District also stated that we would need to know what date the ME&C send the contract to the MoF for approval and what date it returned to the ME&C. He also requested that we know what date the contractor received the mobilisation amount that was due upon signing. He concluded that the information would provide clarity that it was not a matter of poor planning or the lack thereof but rather lack of certain persons following through with their responsibilities. He also noted that the lack of follow through is the underlying factor that caused wastage of government funds. He stated that he recalled Mr. Scatliffe stating that he would

work along with the MEC, if it took longer than anticipated for the order of tables and chairs to arrive. He stated that he hopes that this was no fault of the MEC and that it was a travesty that the money situation was what it was, but that the lunch programme should not be blamed. 2495. The Member for the First District stated that this is the first time he is aware of this matter and that someone should be held responsible for this apparent lack of the carrying out of duties thereby ensuring that the public purse was safe guarded. He further stated his full disgust to hear that this situation exists. 2496. The LOP enquired what was the number of academic staff at ESHS. The Principal, ESHS answered 149 teachers.
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2497. The Member for the First District stated that the certification of teachers was necessary and formed part of an ongoing process to ensure schools remain accredited. 2498. The Member for the First District enquired if the ESHS would continue the summer programme for those students who failed English and/or Mathematics. The Principal, ESHS stated that the school can execute a summer programme but that would be up to the decision of the Department of Education/MEC. She explained that the summer programme last year was used for promotion purposes and in 2010 year it was done for enrichment purposes. 2499. The Member for the First District enquired if based on last years summer programme if there was improved performance. The Principal, ESHS stated that the processes carried out by the teachers were more or less the same. She explained that year the students knew the summer school sessions were to be used for promotion that their attendance and focus was better. 2500. The Member for the First District enquired if all the ESHS teachers had access to and used the Powerschool tool. The Principal, ESHS stated that all ESHS teachers had access to Powerschool, not all of them used it with enough frequency. She further stated that all teachers had been informed recently of expectations regarding their use of Powerschool and that she would be disciplining teachers who were not using it to update grades, etc. She stated that the purpose of Powerschool were to communicate with parents and keep them involved so that they can be aware of their childs school performance. 2501. The Member for the First District enquired if there were a large percentage of teachers that were using Powerschool. The Principal, ESHS confirmed that a large percentage of teachers used Powerschool and were entering grades. 2502. The Member for the First District asked how the Health and Family Life Education (HFLE) classes were progressing, particularly in terms of student behaviour. The Principal, ESHS stated that when the HFLE programme first started the teachers were
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hesitant, but now that they have a better understanding of what was expected that they, as well as the students, enjoyed the classes. In terms of behavior, she stated that topics covered, which could not be taught in Math and English classes, has had a positive impact on life skills like decision making. 2503. The Member for the First District enquired if any process was done differently in the assessment of the criteria for graduation for last school year versus the other previous years. The Principal, ESHS stated that last school year the students were more aware of the processes that were required for graduation. She further stated that in her few years as an administrator she realised that students grades were addressed in a secretive manner and the students were not aware of how they were doing or how well they were doing on a particular exam until the day of results. She explained that was why last year senior students were taught how grades were calculated and were given the excel spreadsheet so that they could control their own outcome. 2504. The Member for the First District asked if the procedures used to calculate grades were different from any other year. The Principal, ESHS replied that the procedure did not vary from any other year. 2505. The Member for the First District enquired what the role of the post of Minister for Education and Culture was in determining which students passed or failed to achieve a secondary school leaving certificate. The Principal, ESHS answered that the

Minister for Education and Culture had no role in determining results of the secondary schools. She stated that the results were discussed with the secondary principals and the (Deputy) Chief Education Officer and the Minister hand no role in that process. 2506. The Member for the First District enquired if the criteria used at the ESHS for secondary requirements for graduation was the same criteria used for all other secondary schools in the Territory, private and public. The Principal, ESHS stated that the process is the same for all secondary schools, private and public.
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She

explained that the process used for graduation entailed using students fourth and fifth

form grades. She continued to explain that fourth form grades were weighted at 40%, the first term of fifth form was weighted at 30%, and Lent term grades were weighted at 15% and the school leaving exams were weighted at 15%. 2507. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired if the standards are the same at BFEC Secondary. The Principal, ESHS replied that to her knowledge the standards were the same at BFEC Secondary. 2508. The Minister for Education and Culture advised that the Principal, ESHS should only speak to what she knows in her area of competence and not overextend herself on matters she was not sure about. 2509. The Member for the First District asked the AgPSEC if the process was different at BFEC Secondary. The AgPSEC replied that the same process was followed at all public secondary schools in terms of weighted percentages of fourth and fifth form grades. 2510. The Minister for Education enquired if there were no differences in terms of standards, and if there was uniformity between ESHS and BFEC Secondary. The AgPSEC stated that when continuous assessment is done there would always be subjectivity involved which would be difficult to address. She acknowledged that was an issue that the Department of Education must address and that was due to a lack of quality assurance systems in place. She stated that the ESHS and BFEC Secondary did not have the same programmes; ESHS had more locked programmes whereas BFEC Secondary had a more open system. 2511. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that due to the absence of quality assurance systems it could not be said with certainty that what obtains at ESHS is exactly what obtains at BFEC Secondary. The AgPSEC stated that as far as the process for the allocation of grades from one year to the next was common across the board.

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2512. The Member for the First District stated that the departments that do exist at both BFEC Secondary and ESHS do confer so that they could remain on par with each other. The AgPSEC stated that the teachers for the subject areas confer regarding sitting of the school leaving exams. 2513. The Minister for Education and Culture asked that if it could be said with any certainty that the exact exam given to the students at ESHS was the exact same exam the students at BFEC Secondary. The AgPSEC stated that the exact school leaving exam was the same at ESHS and BFEC Secondary but not continuous assessment. 2514. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired if continuous assessment accounted for most of the grade. The AgPSEC responded affirmatively. 2515. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that the issue of subjectivity could sneak in the area where the biggest percent of the mark lay. The AgPSEC responded affirmatively that it could. 2516. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that it could not be said with any real certainty that there was a set process or set standard that was being used because subjectivity plays a great role in the larger percentage of the grading. The AgPSEC acknowledged that it could not. She also added the Department of Education was aware of it and were trying to find ways improve the system by eliminating the high level of subjectivity and interject quality assurance systems. She stated that with accreditation it was important to ensure that the school leaver possessed the necessary requirements on graduation. 2517. The Member for the First District stated that quality assurance was always an issue in some respects. He referred to the two public high schools in the USVI and stated that Eudora Kean High School did not offer as many programmes as Charlotte Amalie High School; however the programmes that they both offered were on par with each other. He stated that the purpose of quality assurance would be to reduce the

percentage subjectivity tremendously, but not totally. He further stated that the only
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way to achieve 100% quality assurance was to do standardise testing across the board beginning at the primary school level, which he stated would be very costly. He said that to some degree we have to trust the officers in the public school system to make sure that they continue to keep on par. 2518. The Member for the First District enquired if there was anything done in terms of procedure for graduation percentage at the ESHS to indicate that the system was watered down to allow for students graduate. The Principal, ESHS stated that at the ESHS nothing varied in the process and nothing was watered down. 2519. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired about supplementary exams and how the determination was made to decide which students should do supplementary and in what subjects. The Principal, ESHS explained that the total calculation of fourth form grades, first term and Lent term of fifth form would be done and students who had not earned a 4.0 or C average by the end of Lent term would be strongly encouraged to take the supplementary classes. She further explained that the students would be taking school leaving exams but would not know how they performed on school leaving until the end of April, beginning of May, and by that time they would have lost school time. 2520. The Minister for Education and Culture asked what qualified a student to take a supplementary class. The Principal, ESHS responded that anyone who did not have a C average in a class at the end of their 85% completion of work. 2521. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if a student got an F if he/she could still take supplementary classes. The Principal, ESHS answered affirmatively. 2522. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired whether it would be safe to say that if a student that got a grade F in the class that the student had little or no understanding in the subject matter. The Principal, ESHS responded affirmatively. 2523. The Minster for Education and Culture enquired if a supplementary class would help the student understand the subject matter after receiving an F. The Principal, ESHS !"#$%##(%&'%"#$%

stated that it would be fair to say that it would be difficult for a student to cover all of the work for the two years in that period of time. 2524. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if it would be more prudent to put some safeguards in place, for example if a student failed a subject by less than ten percentage points, to qualify to take supplementary. He added that it would show that the student had at least a basic understanding of the subject matter. The Principal, ESHS responded affirmatively. 2525. The Minster for Education and Culture stated that he had difficulty understanding how a student could get an F and still do supplementary because it showed that the student had absolutely no understanding of the subject matter. He added that if the student then passed the supplementary for whatever reason, they would pass without having the foundation of the particular subject. 2526. The Minister for Education and Culture asked what was the length of the supplementary period. The Principal, ESHS responded that the supplementary classes were approximately six to seven weeks. 2527. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired how long the life of the particular course was normally. The Principal, ESHS answered two years, as it started from fourth form. 2528. The Minister for Education and Culture that it would be hard to understand how a student who could not learn a subject in two years, yet could pass it in the six weeks supplementary period. 2529. The Member for the First District stated that it was not that clear cut. He explained that a student who got an F average before the school leaving examination did not always mean that he/she did not understand the subject area, but that the student may have missed submitting an assignment or failed a test that could have been made up. Also the weight of the test /assignments could be a factor. He further added that were other variables that affected whether a child passed or failed. He stated that based on !"#$%###%&'%"#$%

numbers, a student could have a C average and because he/she did not turn in one or two assignments and got an F for the subject. He further stated that in that particular instance supplementary could easily bring the students grade back up to a C. He reiterated that there were too much variables and it should/could not be looked at the same way across the board for all students as the Minister was inferring. 2530. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that if you were in college and you did not hand in your assignments it speaks to a bigger problem and wanted to know if students should be rewarded for not being disciplined. He also referred to the

Unemployment Register and stated that over 500 students could not find employment in this country and we had people entering the Territory to do the same work that could be done in country. He further added that he was appalled to hear that excuses were being made for students who did not turn in assignments. 2531. The Member for the First District stated that the Minister made a few good observations but was taking what was said out of context, and facts surrounding this issue need to be reviewed before one makes any conclusions. 2532. The Member for the Sixth District thanked the members of the panel. 2533. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District offered her encouragement and stated that answers were not always found in the box and maybe the box should be discarded. She added that the challenge was not the blame game but it was to make something happen as we could not afford to breakdown and let down and blame, but have to do what was right and press on and get our children educated in the right way. She concluded that education was not always academics and that we had to find a way for our children to develop something within; an interest must come from within. 2534. The DFC requested that the changes for the budget be read aloud for the record. 2535. The Principal, ESHS stated the suggested changes/adjustments Subhead under Head 425 was:
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Revised Proposed 2012 Subhead 61100 Subhead 61110 Subhead 61120 Subhead 61120 Subhead 61220 Subhead 61230 Subhead 61240 Subhead 61325 Subhead 61340 Subhead 61400 Subhead 61410 Subhead 61420 Subhead 61520 Subhead 61530 Subhead 61620 Subhead 62340 Subhead 62415 Subhead 62440 General Office Expenses Printing and Stationery Books and Subscriptions Telephone/Telexes/Faxes Electricity Water Postage Equipment (Minor) Furniture and Fixtures Repairs and Maintenance Maintenance and Hire Alterations and Maintenance School Transportation Equipment Rent Local Travel $6,000 $20,000 $200,000 $23,000 $200,000 $8,000 $1,000 $10,000 $40,000 $10,000 $50,000 $122,000 $285,000 $3,000 $6,000

Sports and Inter-School Activities $40,000 Security School Supplies $280,000 $81,000

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Subhead 65600

Education Initiatives

$40,500

2536. The LOP enquired if it made sense to reduce the electricity subhead to $200,000 when it was in reality plenty more than that. 2537. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District stated that monthly electricity figures were needed to get a true picture for the cost of electricity for the ESHS. 2538. The Principal, ESHS stated that the monthly figures were included in a handout that was circulated to all Members of the House. 2539. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District thanked the panel for coming and for answering the questions and concerns asked by Members.

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HEAD 430 Present:

LIBRARY SERVICES

Ms. Suzanne Greenaway Mrs. Marcia Potter

Chief Librarian (CL) Ag. Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Education & Culture (AgPSEC)

Ms. Tasha Bertie

Ag. Deputy Secretary, Ministry of Education & Culture (AgDSEC)

Mrs. C. Jovita Scatliffe

Ag. Finance & Planning Officer, Ministry of Education & Culture (AgFPOEC)

Ms. Stacy Brewley Mr. Orlando Thomas

Ag. Senior Accounts Officer (AgSAOEC) Accounts Officer II/Library Services

2540. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District welcomed the members of the Library Services to the SFC and asked that they state their names to which they complied. 2541. The CL gave a brief presentation. 2542. The DFS stated that the CL needs to state which posts need to be upgraded. The CL stated that the posts are 3 Library Assistants from non-established transferred to PE as Library Assistants I/II, Library Trainee posts a full time post, final post to P&P is the Driver Post upgraded to be Library Assistant I/II Driver. Those five posts transferred over to PE. 2543. The Member for the Sixth District asked what was the problem with the vehicle? The CL replied that the vehicle was approved for $40,000 it was approved by Cabinet

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should have gotten the vehicle in 2011 but due to cash flows the vehicle was never received, present vehicle in poor condition and is undergoing repairs at PWD. 2544. The Member for the Sixth district asked what you are currently using for transportation. The CL replied that the messenger from the Ministry, Mr. Donovan has been assisting with the daily errands. 2545. The Member for the Sixth District stated, you seem to be in a deplorable state and need to be relocated. The CL stated that would be an ideal solution. 2546. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District asked the CL to speak to the exhaust fumes as mentioned in her opening statement. The CL replied that around 2009 the scent of diesel or fumes in to the department, they called in Environment Health, the source has been the exhaust fumes of the boilers from the laundry next door. Black particles when the boiler explodes you hear a loud bang and then black particles comes in female and male bathrooms were carbon particles, the scent begun to travel through the AC system, persons started to complain for their eyes burning and nose burning from the fumes. Environment has been monitoring it, this year February 3 a similar situation reoccurred and Environmental Health had to be called in. 2547. The Member for the Sixth District asked if a structural engineer was requested to look at the building to determine if the building was structurally sound. The CL replied that this was not done, how she came to find out about it was in 2007 a library consultant firm came in from upstate New York , they determined flour load exceeded what should have been, one area in particular was risky, because of that permission was given to use the third floor. Cabinets and documents were relocated to third floor, but its not air-condition, and therefore the heat would make the documents deteriorate over time. 2548. The Member for the Sixth District stated that the condition of the library sounds like it is a disaster waiting to happen. The CL replied yes we would like to get a new
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building that would have ground floor access, so that the weight of the books etc. would be on the ground floor so that the health & safety matters can be rectified. 2549. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked have you made recommendations as has been made for the location of the new building. The CL replied that in 2007 when the consultants were in a plot of land over by the old agricultural station was identified, preliminary plans were drawn for a new structure for the Library. 2550. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if that should be in the Ministry. The CL replied yes madam chair. 2551. The Member for the Eighth District asked if EE/LL still have a library and if it is functional. The CL replied yes located at Long Swamp. The building is owned by Dr. Quincy Lettsome. We have 5 libraries; two on Tortola, East End and Road Town, Anegada, Jost Van Dyke and Virgin Gorda. 2552. The Member for the Eighth District asked whether the consultant had look at the design of a library in the East End Area. The CL replied no madam chair only the Road Town Area. 2553. The Member for the First District asked how much the consultant says the building will cost. The CL stated that she did not have the figure of cost with her, its approximately 35,000 sq. ft. I cannot answer truthfully for the cost of drawings. 2554. The Member for the First District asked when training division moved out, were monies allocated to help with the move, so that you could get the third floor retrofitted so that the load could be shifted off of the second floor. The CL stated that in 2007 when training division moved, the Ministry of Finance gave additional funding to pay rent for upstairs. We were also given $77,000 for renovation however that money came in December and to get estimates and contractors within that time frame was difficult and the monies were returned to Treasury.

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2555. The Member for the First District asked if this money was to help move books into the third floor. The CL stated that the renovation money would have been for the second and third floor. 2556. The Member for the First District asked if the library would have occupied two floors if the monies were received in a good timeframe. The CL stated the public services would have stayed on second floor, the administrative unit, and book mobile and the bussing unit would have moved to the third floor. 2557. The Member for the Sixth District asked how long has the library been in that building. The CL replied that the library has there from the 1980s. I do not have the specific year, but it was moved there from the 1980s. The AgPSEC said that for the record to show the changes in the allocations under the Library Services. spoke to the upgrade in staff. The monies were moved from wages to staff 2558. Head 430 Subhead 60300 60510 61400 62425 62600 62610 Staff was increased to Wages decreased to Repairs & Maintenance increased to Outreach Program decreased to Library Services decreased to Library Automation increased to $62, 113.08 $77,400.00 $5,300.00 $21,500.00 $11,800.00 $12,400.00 The CL

2559. The Deputy FS questioned if those positions were approved through Human Resources. 2560. The AgPSEC replied that they were approved by Human Resources.

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2561. The Member for the Sixth District asked if rent was going to be increased under Subhead 61510. The AgPSEC replied that there is no word of increase in rent. 2562. The Member for the Eighth District thanked the panel for their contribution. 2563. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District thanked the panel for coming and for answering the questions posed by Members.

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HEAD 435 Present:

PRISON

Mr. Richard Holder Dr. Marcia Potter Ms. Tasha Bertie Mrs. C. Jovita Scatliffe Ms. Stacy Brewley

Superintendent, HMP AgPSEC AgDSEC Ag. FPOEC SAOEC

2564. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District welcomed the Superintendent and other members to the Standing Finance Committee and that they state their names to which they complied. 2565. The Superintendent made a brief presentation. 2566. The Member for the Third District asked about the organisational structure at the Prison. The Superintendent replied: Superintendent Deputy Assistant Superintendent Principal Officers Sergeants Prison Officers I/II Cooks Counsellor Chaplain Doctor & Nurse from BVI Health Services
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2567. The Member for the Third District asked about the role of the Governor and who had responsibility for the Prison. The Superintendent replied the Prison falls under the Ministry of Education and Culture, the Governor deals with security and early release and matters that pertain to Prison Rules. 2568. The Member for the Third District asked the Superintendent if he was referring to security of the inmates or prisoners being a national security issue. The Superintendent replied he is in charge of national security. 2569. The Member for the Third District asked the Superintendent if he reported to the Governor. The Superintendent replied yes. 2570. The Member for the Third District asked if this was a statutory requirement or a courtesy. The Superintendent replied I report to him under the Prison Rules 1999 and I also report to the Minister. The rules deal with early release matters, sick persons. 2571. The Member for the Third District asked whether the Rules were in legislation. The Superintendent replied the role of the Governor in HMP; the Governor has the executive authority over the Prison and the responsibility for all matters in relation to security. The Minister has the administrative responsible to ensure that the prison is provided with the necessary resources to be able to provide all services required to operate prison under national and international law. In the current act there is no specific preference to the Minister only to the Governor. The hunts committee had recommended that both parties agree who is responsible for what since it is an area that has been blurred for many years. 2572. The Member for the Third District asked the Superintendent if he had any conflict in his mind as to who he has to report to. The Superintendent replied I report to both persons. 2573. The Member for the Third District asked is there any conflict. The Superintendent replied I only follow what the rules say; I have no difficulties in my reporting abilities.
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2574. The Member for the Third District asked what type of expenditure he has for water. The Superintendent replied that I am just paying for the rental of the machine; I am using water from the reservoir. We are not purchasing any water for the prison by truck. 2575. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if there is any difference in consumption charges under subhead 61230, there is an allocation of $100,000 for water under the budget. The Superintendent replied that he has to pay Water & Sewerage. 2576. The Member for the First District stated that the problem where lots of water was ordered over the years. Schedule of Additional Provisions had to be placed there every year to cover that. It could not be gotten under handle. The 100,000 was always budgeted, but supplementary money had to be budgeted. The Superintendent saved the government over $600,000. The Member for the Third District asked what about the farm, is it still up and running. The Superintendent replied yes. 2577. The Member for the Third District asked who the consumers of the produce were. The Superintendent replied by the prison and we sell them to local persons. Eggs are also sold at the supermarkets and other persons. We try to sell our stock throughout. We have 34 pigs at the prison; the eggs are now booming we have accountability at the farm. We have chicken and we produce vegetables. 2578. The Minister of Health and Social Development asked if he still raise pigs and chickens only. The Superintendent replied that they sell pigs, chicken and vegetation. 2579. The Minister of Health and Social Development asked what the electricity bills are. The Superintendent replied that $126,000 per annum. 2580. The Member for the Third District ask if the prison staff goes on any attachment, and whether they have contact with other prisons regionally or otherwise, to see what is best practices. The Superintendent replied that that they are in contact with other OECS dependent territories prisons, such as Barbados, Antigua and Trinidad. !"#$%#))%&'%"#$%

2581. The Member for the Third District asked do we send any prisoners from here or does anyone come from other countries here on attachment. The Superintendent replied that we have sent officers for training to Turks and Caicos, as a form of attachment. 2582. The Minister of Health and Social Development asked if there are more security issues than administrative issues. The Superintendent replied that there are more security issues. 2583. The Minister of Health and Social Development asked if he had to make a recommendation would you recommend the subject of Prisons to go with the Governors portfolio. The Superintendent replied that he does not in have the capacity to say. 2584. The Member for the Sixth District asked how much time is a prisoner allowed outside the cell? The Superintendent replied one hour in the morning and one hour in the afternoon. 2585. The Member for the Sixth District asked is this sufficient time? The Superintendent replied yes, we must manage that time because of security issues. We have to manage that much more closely. 2586. The Member for the Sixth District asked if the superintendent thinks the lack of activities has to do with the health issues. The Superintendent replied No, persons admitted to the prison with several health problems, we do full examinations on them and you realize you have other problems, you have to provide different medications and we do not have the funds to supply that. 2587. The Minister of Health and Social Development asked for a copy of the Prison Rules. The Superintendent replied he would provide the Members with a copy. 2588. The Member for the Sixth District asked why were some programs discontinued i.e. the tailor shop? The Superintendent replied we have completed the investigation and there are outstanding bills to Road Town Wholesale of $4,500 this is something I
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inherited when I came to the prison. The tailor shop was closed because the tailor shops were used to make officers private clothes for their families. 2589. The Member for the Sixth District asked what about the wood work area? The Superintendent replied we just met with Dr. Dawson at the HLSCC we have vocational programmes to come on stream, carpentry, electrical, marine mechanics and plumbing. 2590. The Minister of Education and Culture said that further discussions will be done at the Ministry level so no further discussions will be done on that subject at this time. 2591. The Member for the Sixth District asked who were the clothes at the tailor shop originally intended to be made for? The Superintendent replied it was designed to make clothes for inmates because we have to make uniforms for them, we now do the printing of the T-shirts at the prison with our printing machine. They have her majestys prison on the back. The prison tailor shop was closed to give more space to the school as we had limited room for the classes. 2592. The Member for the Sixth District asked can this be a way of generating income for the prison by charging for making clothes. The Superintendent replied at that time it was not under my charge, I was only cleaning up to make room to move forward. 2593. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if all prisoners get a handbook regarding their rights. The Superintendent replied yes we are now printing those but they remain the property of HMP each inmate gets one when they come into the prison and have to surrender it when they are leaving. 2594. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if prisoners get a handbook regarding their rights. The Superintendent replied yes we are now re-printing those but they remain the property of HMP each inmate gets one on arrival that contains all the dos and donts. It should be out very soon, TICO is sponsoring that, and those will be out very soon.
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2595. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if all prisoners know their rights at HMP. The Superintendent replied they are briefed on arrival and we meet with them on their blocks and outline certain things to them. We are hoping by now and the middle of March to get them printed. 2596. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what about the prison visiting committee, how often they met and how often they visit the prisoners. The Superintendent replied at least twice per week one on weekend, they were there yesterday, they have a schedule to have meetings but they have the autonomy to visit the prison whenever and interact with inmates, find out problems and make recommendations and liaison with the superintendent, I give them that privilege to do their part. 2597. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked about the death at the prison and what was the cause of death. The Superintendent replied I did not have a death that death was in 2009. 2598. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked you did mention something about a death in your report. The Superintendent replied yes, I only mention that to say that the family of that person will be bringing a law suit against the government, so I am bringing it for your information, but its as not under my watch. 2599. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked do you know the details of that lawsuit. The Superintendent replied no that matter is in the hands of the Attorney General Chambers. 2600. The AgPSEC wants the record to note that Subhead 62920 is being added to Head 335 for Prison entitled Rehabilitation Programme in the amount of $50,000 in an effort to start of programmes for the rehabilitation of prisoners. Notes should read covers cost of rehabilitation initiatives for prisoners and prior approval must be given by the Minister of Education.

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2601. The Member for the Third District asked to tell what is it the superintendent needs in order for the prison to function in an acceptable way, other than space. It seems as though, that in some cases, incarceration is determined based on the availability of space. The Superintendent replied that additional wings (cells) are needed. 2602. The Member for the Third District asked if the number of prisoners was reduced what would be a reasonable population that would be considered acceptable. The

Superintendent replied that I would like to see it reduced by 60, there is a different change in society, the prison population cannot drop like that, and there is a recent rise in crime. We need additional space to accommodate. 2603. The Member for the Third District asked what would it take to get additional space? The Superintendent replied that I would need additional funds. 2604. The Member for the Third District asked when was the prison opened? The Superintendent replied in 1999. 2605. The Member for the Third District stated its about 12 13 years old and it has not been expanded? The Superintendent replied it has not been expanded; we are using the female wing, the bottom of the immigration detention center. 2606. The Member for the Third District asked if the detention center was constructed as such or was it a make shift? The Superintendent replied it was constructed as such. 2607. The Member for the Third District asked what the capacity of the female wing is. The Superintendent replied that it could only accommodate about 10 females; if we receive additional we have to double up. 2608. The Member for the Third District asked has there been any proposal to expand the prison in a meaningful way, I have not heard of any. The Superintendent replied no I have not heard of any.

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2609. The Member for the Third District asked if it is a neglected need, is this part of your discussion with the governor that we need more facilities. The Superintendent replied that this is discussed with both the Minister and His Excellency the Governor. 2610. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if we should expand the prison or build another prison? The Superintendent replied that he doesnt think its time for another prison, we can do repairs to this current one. 2611. The Member for the Third District asked if there are people out on the streets that need to be in prison, and are not in prison because there is no room. The

Superintendent replied that this is a matter for the courts, the magistrate and the judges have a right to do certain things, and he can only receive people on a commitment warrant. When they are brought to prison he can only hold them on a commitment warrant. 2612. The Member for the Third District asked if there is room for expansion. The Superintendent replied that there is a lot of land. 2613. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked how many of the staff are BVIslanders? The Superintendent replied 13 including cooks. 2614. The Member for the Eighth District asked what the total staff is. The superintendent replied 72. 2615. The Member for the Eighth District asked if there is any special training to be a prison officer and what is the requirement. The Superintendent replied we have initial training that would help to know English, train in certain methods, control and restraint of prisoners, how to deal with matters, problem solving and creativity, they need to know how to negotiate. 2616. The Member for the Eighth District asked if it is a matter that BVIslanders are not applying? The Superintendent replied that we must have an attractive salary, the salaries are way below and they are not attractive.
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2617. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what positions the BVIslanders hold. The Superintendent replied Superintendent, Deputy Superintendent, Sentence Planning Officer, Chaplain, Counselor, Matron about 13 20. 2618. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked of the 64 prison officers I/II are any BVIslanders? The Superintendent replied most are Belongers. 2619. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked so you conclude that the reason for the low attraction rate may be salaries? The Superintendent replied yes, its the pay and conditions. 2620. The Minister of Health and Social Development thanked the panel for appearing before the SFC. 2621. The Superintendent extended an invitation to the members to visit the prison to see what is going on. 2622. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District thanked the panel for coming and answering the questions raised by Members.

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Head 440 Present:

Ministry of Health and Social Development

Mrs. Petrona Davies Mrs. Carolyn Stoutt-Igwe Dr. Irad Potter Ms. Andrea Hamm Mr. Anthony McMaster Miss Natasha Julius Miss Kisha Donovan

PSHSD Deputy Secretary, HSD Chief Medical Officer Manager, Sandy Lane Centre Finance & Planning Officer, HSD HR Manager, HSD Finance & Planning Officer, HSD

2623. The Chairman welcomed everyone and asked persons present to give their name and positions for the record to which they complied. 2624. The PSHSD circulated a document to Members on the performance and plans for the Ministry of Health & Development. She stated that the Ministry had been grappling with a number of social challenges and has introduced a number of programmes and initiatives that would help to deal with these challenges. One of the challenges includes non-communicable diseases. The Ministry is seeking to find out what has caused the increase in diseases within the territory. The Ministry is also tackling the growing issue of social violence and would introduce protective measures to deal with this. She added that the Health Sector needed to strengthen the legislation to bring it in line and to upgrade medical services. Plans are also on train to modernise the waste system and to improve the environmental surveillance at the ports of entry. The Ministry was also actively working with young people and other vulnerable groups with the HIV Aids programme. The PSHSD stated that reports would also be made
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regarding the Sandy Lane Centre, the National Health Information Programme and Gender Affairs. The PSHSD stated that she welcomed the support of the Members for the Ministrys initiates and programmes. 2625. The Member for the Third District asked the PSHSD how long since she had been with the MHSD. 2626. The PSHSD replied that she joined the Ministry in July, 2008. 2627. The Member for the Third District queried how many persons were on staff. 2628. The PSHSD replied that the MHSD had 55 established staff and 25 non established staff. 2629. The Member for the Third District asked how many positions were vacant. 2630. The PSHSD replied that four positions were vacant, and of the four positions, three were senior positions. Namely. Senior Administrative Officer, Environmental Health Officer and Medical Health Officer. She explained that the Medical Health Officer, Dr. Ronald Georges, had been seconded to the BVI HSA. 2631. The Member for the Third District asked what was the salary grade for the post of Medical Health Officer. 2632. The PSHSD replied that the Medical Health Officers post was in grade 16. 2633. The Member for the Third District asked what salary was paid to the CEO at the BVI HSA . 2634. The PSHSD replied that his salary was $90,000 per annum. 2635. The Member for the Third District stated that he thought that the CEOs salary was approximately $100,000 per annum.

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2636. The PSHSD stated that at some period Dr. Georges performed the duties of both the CEO and Director of Primary Health Care and therefore attracted a higher salary. The Member for the Third District enquired regarding the salary that Dr. Georges received before he was seconded to BVIHSA. 2637. The PSHSD stated that his salary was approximately $60,000 per year. 2638. The Member for the Third District asked what salary the PSHSD received. 2639. The PSHSD stated that she received salary at the rate of $87,790 per annum. 2640. The Member for the Third District enquired into the amount of increment that the PSHSD received in 2011. 2641. The PSHSD stated that she received two increments of $1,200 in 2011, one for 2009 and one for 2010. 2642. The Member for the Third District asked what was the amount of her increment for 2011. 2643. The PSHSD said based on the current policy she would receive 50% of her increment for 2011. 2644. The Member for the Third District asked when she was made aware of the change in her increments. 2645. The PSHSD stated that the information was released in January, 2012. 2646. The Member for the Third District asked whether she was expecting to receive a similar increment in 2012 as she received in 2011. 2647. The PSHSD replied in the affirmative. 2648. The Member for the Third District asked whether she received feedback regarding the 50% decrease in increment from her staff.
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2649. The PSHSD stated that she had discussed policy changes with her staff in the context of the economic situation. They were informed that there might be a changed in remuneration and that the possibility existed that no increment would be paid. The staff did not give any negative feedback regarding the decrease of increments. Her assessment is that the staff understood that the cut was necessary. 2650. The Member for the Third District asked what role the Ministry played in relationship to the BVIHSA. 2651. The PSHSD stated that the Ministry was responsible for public health matters. The Ministry deals with trends and introduces measures to control and prevent diseases. The BVIHSA deals with health care. 2652. The Member for the Third District asked who disseminated information to the public about diseases. 2653. The CMO stated that one of the responsibilities of the MHSD is to operate a surveillance system to be alerted if a disease is on the increase. He said there are network of sites that report regularly to the Ministry of Health. Some diseases have to be reported within twenty-four hours and others are reported weekly. The surveillance unit would send weekly reports to the sites and they would know if there is an increase that they need to be concerned about. A bulletin is prepared and disseminated to the doctors and the public. The CMO added that if there is an emergency an outbreak committee convenes a meeting to deal with the situation. 2654. The Member for the Third District asked what authority the CMO had over the BVIHSA. 2655. The CMO stated that the BVIHSA Act did not make any provision for the CMO to have control over the BVIHSA.

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2656. The Ministry has a Medical and Dental Council to ensure that qualified practitioners are operating within the territory. The CMO serves as the Registrar of that Council and if there are problems they are dealt with by the Registrar. 2657. The Member for the Third District asked whether the CMO thought that he should have more authority. 2658. The CMO stated that he is the Chief Principal Advisor of medical and health and gives advice regarding policies. The legislation is very limited and needs to be modernised. The Ministry is working on a Bill that would allow for greater

accountability and responsibility for health services in the territory for both the public and private sector. 2659. The Member for the Third District queried how long the Ministry has been working on the legislation and how close is it to being completed. 2660. The CMO replied that he has been working on the legislation for two years and it should be finalised during this year. 2661. The Member for the Third District stated that the problem of getting legislation before the HOA is not unique to the Ministry of Health. Officers are sometimes

handicapped in bringing legislation forward because they are awaiting input from someone. He said there is an urgent need to move forward this legislation right away. 2662. The Minister for HSD stated that within the next 15 18 months it is his intention to bring forward any proposed legislation to the HOA that would improve the health services. He added that persons who have insurance and could pay for health services should be mandated to do so. He thinks that the Health Services in the BVI is evolving and the Ministry could not afford to lose time in making appropriate decisions. 2663. The Member for the Third District asked where the Ministry was as it relates to the involvement of medical schools in the territory.
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2664. The CMO stated that there are no medical schools within the territory. 2665. The Member for the Third District enquired what would be the role of the Ministry of Health if a medical school was established in the territory. 2666. The CMO stated that a medical school would be established as any other industry. The Ministry of E&C is responsible for the establishment of schools within the territory. Medical schools would be established, like any other industry, by persons who wish to invest money. If a medical school is established in the territory, the MHSD would, as far as the clinical aspect is concerned, have a concern regarding importation and exportation of bodies for students to work on. The MHSD would also be involved with the licensing of practitioners. His advice is that medical schools would provide economic activity for the territory. 2667. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian, enquired whether Government should

fund a study to determine whether schools should operate within the territory. 2668. The CMO stated that Government should not spend money to determine whether schools should operate in the territory. Each year he receives one or more applications from interested persons to establish a medical school. The applications are sent to the Premiers Office and the Ministry of E&C. He does not participate in decision making on this matter. 2669. The Member for the Third District asked whether it was the CMOs opinion that the Government should fund a medical school. 2670. The CMO stated that his professional opinion is that the Government should not fund a medical school. If the Government wanted to co-partner with someone to fund a school it would not be his decision to make. 2671. He added that if Government invested in a training facility it would be an investment for health and that consideration must be made for all the money spend for health services.
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2672. The Minister for HSD asked whether the CMO felt that the contract for $500.000 for the research of the viability of a medical school for the BVI was necessary. 2673. The CMO stated that if he was asked he would have recommended that there was no need for such a study. 2674. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian, asked whether, based on the CMOs relationship with other heath officials in the region, that medical schools were established based on studies. 2675. The CMO stated that he had no knowledge about other Governments in the region who established medical schools. As far as he is aware, entrepreneurs come into a country and expressed an interest in establishing a business. If consideration is given to establishing a medical school, negotiation would take place. 2676. The Member for the Third District asked who had the authority to appoint such a body. 2677. The CMO stated that he did not know that such a body existed in the territory. 2678. The Minister for HSD stated that in future when inquiries are made regarding a medical school he would determine what those persons required from the Government to establish a school. The Minister stated that if a school is properly established, more persons would be involved in the health care of the territory and that legislation could be amended to accommodate this. 2679. The Member for the Third District asked whether the CMO had any knowledge of what happened in the region for establishing a medical school. 2680. The CMO stated that within the region schools are accredited and registered by the Minister of Education and Culture. 2681. The Member for the Third District enquired about the consultancy with Inter Health Canada.
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2682. The PSHSD stated that the Ministry of HSD has a contract commissioning Inter Health Canada to bring the new hospital into use. 2683. The Member for the Third District asked whether the CMO was involved in hiring Inter Health Canada. 2684. The CMO said that a Project Committee for the hospital was involved in the hiring. His advice is that it would be useful, economic and efficient if the Government would get expertise to support the commissioning of the new hospital. 2685. The Member for the Third District asked whether he thought the idea to bring in Inter Health Canada was a good idea. 2686. The CMO stated that given the performance of Inter Health Canada in the Turks & Caicos Islands he would advise that the Government of the Virgin Islands revisit its decision to use Inter Health Canada in the commissioning of the new hospital. 2687. The Member for the Third District asked whether the CMO was asked this question before. 2688. The CMO replied that he was not asked this question before. 2689. The Member for the Third District stated that the CMO should have been willing to give this advice without being asked. 2690. The Member for the Third District asked what Inter Health Canadas role was. 2691. The PSHSD replied that Inter Health Canada was contracted to provide commissioning services that entails developing strategy and plans for staffing, recruiting, providing equipment, information management and looking at policies and procedures for the new hospital. The company also conducted a clinical review of the design of the hospital to make certain changes to allow the hospital to meet international standards. Inter Health Canada signed an agreement with the Turks & Caicos Government. However, the Government experienced financial difficulties and
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were unable to meet its financial obligations to Inter Health Canada. What the Government commissioned Inter Health Canada to do was separate from the running of the hospital. The first two phases were linked to the completion of the hospital and the Government would need to decide whether it would continue to up to phase three. 2692. The Member for the Eighth District asked what stage Inter Health Canada was at now. 2693. The PSHSD stated that Inter Health Canada had completed Phases A and B. Phase C would have been the process of implementing the changes to the facility into operation. 2694. The Member for the Eighth District asked whether the plan could be fast tracked so that the BVIHSA could run the hospital on its own. 2695. The PSHSD stated that the information in the plans belongs to the Government and could be used. Inter Health Canada has been working on modernising the procedures, making proposals for changes and sourcing a health system for changes in the way it operates. 2696. The Member for the Eighth District enquired whether the MHSD was involved in this process. 2697. The PSHSD stated that the Ministry was not directly involved in the operations. However, they provided input when this was needed. 2698. The Member for the Eighth District asked when the report was received from Inter Health Canada. 2699. The PSHSD replied that she could not recall the date when the reports were received and the project has now been suspended. 2700. The Member for the Eighth District asked what was the cost of the contract awarded to Inter Health Canada.
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2701. The PSHSD stated that Inter Health Canada received $892,628.00 for phases A and B. The cost for Phase C is $1.2 million dollars but this has not been paid. An allocation was made for 2.3 million to cover the entire project. 2702. The Member for the Eighth District stated that the actual cost for the contract is $2.1 million to which the PSHSD affirmed. 2703. The Member for the Eighth District enquired how long Inter Health Canada would be involved with the hospital. 2704. The PSHSD stated that the agreement takes Inter Health Canada up to the period when the first patient enters the hospital. 2705. The Member for the Fifth District asked how involved the CMO was in the contract agreements for Inter Health Canada. 2706. The PSHSD stated that the CMO serves as a member of the Commissioning Committee and he receives reports and provides reports for the processes. 2707. The Member for the Fifth District asked whether the MHSD had any other proposals from Inter Health Canada. 2708. The PSHSD stated that Inter Health Canada said they would be willing to enter into an agreement to complete the building and that Government would repay the organisation over a period of time. However, the Government did not accept the proposal. 2709. The Minister for the Fifth District enquired who signed the agreement with Inter Health Canada. 2710. The PSHSD stated that the Minister of Finance signed the contract. 2711. The Member for the Fifth District asked whether the MHSD had any other reference on Inter Health Canada besides their work with Turks & Caicos Islands.
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2712. The PSHSD replied that Inter Health Canadas strengths were in building and operating hospitals. They have done work in many nations and have successfully operated internationally. 2713. The Member for the Eight District enquired what kind of training Inter Health Canada was providing to this Government. 2714. The PSHSD stated that Inter Health Canada conducted an assessment to see what the training needs are and identified gaps to identify a strategy for achieving the training. A more formal proposal was put forward for building the hospital but it was not accepted. The procurement was handled by the Ministry of Finance. 2715. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what challenges Inter Health Canada experienced with Turks & Caicos Government. 2716. The PSHSD stated that the economic challenges changed the situation drastically and the TCI government found it difficult to meet their financial commitment with Inter Health Canada. She felt that Inter Health Canada should have been more flexible in terms of accommodating the Governments financial obligations. 2717. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked whether this Government could learn anything from the experience with Turks & Caicos Islands, 2718. The PSHSD replied that the Government should be careful and learn from this situation. The Department was in a better position to understand how to design a system to make it viable in spite of economic shortfalls. 2719. The CMO stated that it should be noted that the Virgin Islands has a robust health care system which was not the case in the Turks & Caicos Islands. This Government could improve its services if it decided to build fewer and bigger health care systems and allow the hospital to deal with health care. 2720. The Member for the Sixth District asked whether the agreement was signed before or after the investigation was done on Inter Health Canada. !"#$%#+'%&'%"#$%

2721. The PSHSD stated that the situation with the Turks and Caicos Islands was still evolving and the relationship was different from our situation in the Virgin Islands. 2722. The Member for the Third District asked whether the recruitment of staff was one of Inter Health Canadas mandates. 2723. The PSHSD stated that Inter Health Canada would support the BVIHSA in recruiting staff. However, this has not been initiated as yet and would fall under Phase III of the agreement. 2724. The Member for the Third District enquired when the recruitment process was scheduled to take place. 2725. The PSHSD stated that it was up to this Government to indicate what their preferences are with regard to staffing. 2726. The Member for the Third District enquired what is considered a reasonable time frame for recruiting medical officers. 2727. The PSHSD stated that the BVIHSA has been advertising for Medical Officers and has been unsuccessful. Health Officers have been looking at the entire packages that a country offered and the Virgin Islands has been competing with other countries who are offering much more attractive packages. 2728. The PSHSD stated that this Government should consider offering similar packages that are offered by competing countries. 2729. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the BVIHSA planned to occupy all the spaces on each floor of the hospital. 2730. The Minister for HSD replied that the top floor would not be commissioned immediately and certain portions of some of the other floors will not be occupied.

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2731. The Member for the Second District queried whether there were BVIslanders who could be considered to be recruited and, if so, what the Government was doing to attract them to return home. 2732. The CMO stated that some BVIslanders who are overseas have not positively responded to returning home. Most of them have said that they are settled where they are and are content to visit home. 2733. The PSHSD stated that the recruitment strategy has to be guided by this Government. However, consideration should be given to offering the same package being offered to expatriate officers to BVIslanders. Some persons may be willing to return home but are not given good packages. She said the Government is hopeful that the new facility and new approaches that some persons may be attracted to return home. 2734. The Member for the Second District stated that he recalled that over eight years ago there was a programme for recruiting persons from school and sending them to train to work in the hospital. He enquired about the status on this programme. 2735. The CMO stated that the health scholarship has borne fruit. In 2011 three doctors returned home. There are about twelve persons in medical schools on scholarship and five persons are currently on internships. The CMO stated that sending persons to

train as nurses has been more challenging. The return rate for doctors has been higher than nurses. 2736. The Member for the Second District enquired how many persons were granted scholarships to train in the health field in 2011. 2737. The CMO replied that he was not sure how many persons proceeded on training in 2011. 2738. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the BVIHSA had a programme that offered scholarship to staff. 2739. The CMO replied in the affirmative. !"#$%#+#%&'%"#$%

2740. The Member for the Third District enquired why the number of persons who studied nurses was so low. 2741. The CMO replied that the number of persons who are available to study nurses is low. One of the reasons was that the health profession had to compete with many other professions. 2742. The Member for the Sixth District said she knew some young people who had expressed an interest in studying nursing and told her that they were continuously being turned down. 2743. The CMO stated that these persons must be eligible to enter nursing school. They could receive scholarships from the Ministry of Education. If they need guidance the Chief Nursing Officer and the CMO would be willing to provide guidance. He said one of the difficulties is that students are not preparing themselves for matriculation into the nursing programmes. Even in HLSCC students have difficulty in matriculating into the Science programme. 2744. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that a new Scholarship Committee was recently approved, and a member of the Health Services would be appointed on that Committee to make proper representation. 2745. The CMO stated that it would be useful if more focus was placed on students at the primary and secondary schools for career guidance. Persons seemed to lack

understanding of what they needed to do to prepare themselves to study nursing and attention needs to be paid to this. He added that by the time students were in third form it was too late. 2746. The Member for the Eighth District asked whether information was passed on to the Minister of Education and the Training Division, because he did not see Nursing on the priority list.

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2747. The PSHSD stated that the Ministry of Health has worked closely with the Ministry of Education and Culture for the past years. The Training Division would not train persons from their budget. The Government should come together to iron out

problems in this area. He stated that Health scholarships needed to be made available to deal with this problem. 2748. The Minister for Education and Culture said dialogue needs to be held and the scholarship programmes needed to be revamped so that they could approve training in the priority areas and eliminate friendship and politics. 2749. The PSHSD stated that the barriers should be removed to allow persons to be granted training and that public servants should not have to resign to pursue training. 2750. The Member for the Sixth District said she thought that persons who completed high school could be given employment at the hospital before they were sent on training to study nursing. 2751. The CMO stated that most nursing programmes require students with a background with science and that students need to take additional courses at HLSCC to ensure that they could be matriculated into one of the nursing programmes. 2752. The Member for the Sixth District stated that persons needed to be educated about the requirements of pursuing a nursing career. 2753. The Member for the Third District asked what was going to be the complement of staff at Peebles Hospital. The PSMHSD advised that the BVI Health Services

Authority (BVIHSA) would be able to provide that information as the Ministry did not have those details at present. 2754. The Member for the Third District voiced that he thought that via the contract the Ministry of Health had with Inter Health Canada (Inter Health) that that information was available as the Hospital had to be fully functioning at the date of opening. The

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PSMHSD informed that there was a report which provided those details but that she didnt presently have it. 2755. The Member for the Third District asked if that portion of the contract was administered by the Ministry of Health and Social Development (MHSD). The

PSMHSD confirmed that the commissioning contract was administered by the MHSD and the work for developing the plans were carried out with the consultation of the BVIHSA. 2756. The Member for the Third District enquired about the cost of staffing the Hospital. The PSMHSD informed that she did not have the exact figure but that it was going to cost approximately twenty million dollars ($20,000,000.00) to staff the entire BVIHSA and that Dr. Georges would be in the best position to provide the information on the cost for staffing the Hospital. 2757. The Member for the Eighth District asked if there was any information on operational efficiency with regards to the Inter Health contract. The PSMHSD advised that there was a report based on an operational review which was conducted by Inter Health. 2758. The Member for the Eighth District wanted to know what the recommendations were from the report. The PSMHSD advised that the recommendations were for

governance, the management structure, the efficiency of gains in terms of procurement, management of stores and allocation of staff. She also noted that Inter Health had not made recommendations for the present hospital but reviewed what the hospital presently had in order to make recommendations for the new facility. 2759. The Member for the Eighth District noted that if the problems at the present hospital were not dealt with, they were going to be carried to the new facility. The PSMHSD agreed and noted that was why expertise was sought to deal with those inefficiencies. 2760. The Member for the Eighth District asked what measures were being put in place to make the facility more efficient based on recommendations in the report. The

PSMHSD advised that the BVIHSA was going to be in a better position to provide !"#$%#++%&'%"#$%

that information and she noted that there were several recommendations on changes that could be made to better efficiency. 2761. The Member for the Eighth District enquired about what the relationship was between the MHSD and the BVIHSA. The PSHSD informed that the MHSD did not manage the BVIHSA which was governed by a board and operated independently. She also informed that the MHSD was responsible for Health Policy and for providing guidance and support for the development of health care in the Territory. 2762. The Member for the Eighth District expressed that there should have been some level of oversight with the transition process. The PSHSD advised that the Minister could respond more directly to the question. She also noted that part of the strengthening of the health system which was being reviewed was to see if there could be a more formal arrangement between the MHSD and the BVIHSA. 2763. The Member for the Third District noted that the BVIHSA seemed to know very little of what Inter Health was doing the MHSD seemed to knowledgeable of what was being done. The PSHSD informed that was not so and that the BVIHSA had far more information as Inter Health worked in collaboration with them in terms of plans and programmes had been developed which were reflective of the positions and views of persons within the BVIHSA. She also noted that in order for the plans to be viable, the BVIHSA had to work closely with Inter Health as they were the one who had to work with the system and that the Ministry could not formulate that for them and simply hand it to them, the MHSA only provided resources. 2764. The Member for the Third District enquired if the MHSD being Inter Healths client went through the entire process with Inter Health in order to understand what they were going to deliver to the BVIHSA. The PSHSD informed that the Ministry had received a report and had met with the Committee periodically to discuss recommendations, updates, the view on what was expected and what the final product would look like. The PSHSD further noted that on a day-to-day basis when Inter Health was in the Territory they interacted primarily with the BVIHSA.
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2765. The Member for the Fifth District asked who the permanent persons were for the BVIHSA. The PSMHSD advised that it would have been best to call the AgCEO to respond to the question as she did not know the staffing arrangements. 2766. The Minister for Health and Social Development wanted to know if the BVIHSA was presently being dealt with. He noted that the PSMHSD was trying her best to get Members to understand that Inter Healths arrangements for the operation of the new hospital were with the BVIHSA. The Minister also confirmed that the MHSD had oversight but that to expect the PSMHSD to know exactly what was taking place with the Hospital was extreme. 2767. The Minister for Education and Culture noted that just before 7th November 2011 there were students on scholarships with the BVIHSA and they had much difficulty in receiving payments and he wanted to know if the matter was resolved. The PSMHSD the BVIHSA would have to answer that question and that any information she gave would have to be off the record in this regard as she had no information on scholarship arrangements. 2768. The Member for the Third District enquired when the contract with Inter Health Canada was. The PSMHSD advised that the agreement was signed on 17th February of 2010. 2769. The Member for the Third District asked when the construction on the Hospital was discontinued. The PSMHSD informed that it stopped at the end of November 2010. 2770. The Member for the Third District asked when was construction anticipated to end and the first patients entered the facility at the rate the project was going. The PSMHSD informed that the original agreement was for completion in May of 2011 but anticipating delays, flexibilities were provided in the contract for Inter Health until there was a firm completion date and to begin phase C and count backwards from the completion date.

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2771. The Member for the Third District noted that according to the contract Inter Health Canada would have been able to complete the project one year and three months after signing the contract but that time was extended and he asked if any provisions were made to accommodate that extension. The PSMHSD advised that flexibility in this regard was accounted for in case there was a wide gap between the completion of phase B and the beginning of phase C. 2772. The Member for the Third District asked about the plan for the National Health Insurance Scheme (NHIS). The PSMHSD informed that the NHIS was nearing the end of the design phase and that no formal stance had been taken by Government so she could not give details as yet but the scheme was designed to allow for all legal residents to have health insurance. She added that the scheme also provided

Government with a chance to reinvest in a health fund and the monies used to modernize the health system. 2773. The Member for the Third District expressed that the scheme was in the planning stages since the last NDP Administration and continued with the VIP Administration and therefore more should be known about it. He wanted to know if the insurance was usable only in the Territory or outside as well and other details pertaining to the scheme. The PSMHSD advised that a Cabinet decision was not made as yet and she could only advise off the record. 2774. The Member for the Third District asked if the NHIS was going to drain funds. The Minister for Health and Social Development informed that it was not going to. He also informed that when the process for the NHIS began six (6) years ago, it was intended that the Social Security Board was going to be involved and there was going to be a reinsurance of the health care system. 2775. The Member for the Third District asked if there was a team in place to work on this initiative. The PSMHSD informed that there was a team assigned from the Health Economics Unit who was scheduled to be in the Territory in another month and a half.
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2776. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the plans for the NHIS were brought to the attention of the public. The Minister for Health and Social

Development confirmed they were discussed on radio and television but that there needed to be more discussions. The PSMHSD added that there was a full

communication strategy in place once the team returned. Subhead 61510 Office Rent 2777. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked why the office rent was so high as it seemed to increase. The PSMHSD informed that the Ministry had acquired more office space. 2778. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired where the additional space. The PSMHSD informed that the second floor of the Betteto Frett Building on Wickhams Cay. 2779. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked who occupied the space. The

PSMHSD noted that a significant number of the administrative staff was relocated to the RG Hodge Building and this space was approved for half of the staff of the MHSD. 2780. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked for how long was the lease. The PSMHSD informed that the lease was for two years in hopes that the rehabilitation at the Central Administration was going to be completed. 2781. The Member for the Third District asked who had negotiated the lease. The

PSMHSD advised that the Accommodations Committee at the Deputy Governors Office negotiated the lease. Subhead 62410 Assistance Grants 2782. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about financial assistance for the Capoons Bay Clinic. The PSMHSD informed that some money was agreed in the
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amount of ten thousand, six hundred and two dollars ($10,602.00) and it was transferred from another Ministry. 2783. The Minister for Health and Social Development noted that his problem with the Sub Head was that he thought it should be administered by the Department of Social Development. 2784. The Member for the Second District suggested that the programme should be across the board for all senior centres. 2785. The Financial Secretary stated that the assistance for the senior citizens was going to be moved to the Department of Social Development. 2786. The PSMHSD noted that there was a contract in place for the ten thousand, six hundred and two dollars ($10,602.00) and wanted to know if it should be continued. 2787. The Member for the Third District enquired where the other clinics in the Territory were. The PSMHSD informed that the other there clinics were located in East

End/Long Look, Road Town, Sea Cows Bay, Cane Garden Bay, Capoons Bay and Brewers Bay. 2788. The Minister for Health and Social Development noted that the relocation of the Road Town Clinic to the Glancina George Building was supposed to be temporary as a multi purposed structure was to be constructed at Johns Hole for the use of the clinic. 2789. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked how often the clinic was open. The PSMHSD informed that the clinics were open three days per week. 2790. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked on average how many persons attended the clinic on a monthly basis. The PSMHSD advised that the BVIHSA was going to be in a better position to answer the question.

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2791. The Member for the Second District noted that the concept behind the community centres was that they were built to include a clinic so that once the seniors were finished with their activities at the centre, they would go to the clinic. Subhead 62420 Health Education 2792. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked for an explanation on the Sub Head. The PSMHSD advised that the line was a bit misleading as it dealt with communication. Subhead 62520 Legal Aid Programme 2793. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked for an explanation of how a person qualified for legal aid. The PSMHSD informed that the application had to be

reviewed by the Legal Aid Board. 2794. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired who the members of the Board were. The PSMHSD informed the SFC that Mr. A. O. Shirley was the Chairman. 2795. The Minister for Education and Culture noted that the Board was only willing to grant legal aid for matters in the Magistrates Court and High Court. 2796. The Member the Second District noted that when the legal aid programme began it was agreed that the legal aids would be rotated but now it was even outside of the Territory. The PSMHSD explained that that was due to some high profile cases where legal aid was needed. 2797. The Minister for Health and Social Development expressed that persons with land disputes and persons seeking divorce where they could not afford a lawyer should be provided with legal aid. He also noted that there were many persons in the society other than persons who broke the law who used legal aids. 2798. The Minister for Education and Culture expressed that there had to be a way to repatriate the money for legal aid back into the system.

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2799. The Member for the Third District asked if there were any cases where both parties were using legal aid. The PSHSD informed that there was only once instance that happened. Subhead 62410 Assistance Grants 2800. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that he wanted the Cancer Society included as one of the recipients of the grant. Subhead 65300 - Purchase of Vehicle 2801. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked why the figure was so high. The PSMHSD informed that the allocation was for the purchase of two vehicles. Subhead 62510 Special Needs Programme 2802. The Member for the Third District enquired how the programme worked. The PSMHSD informed that persons who required assistance with medical expenses were assisted through that allocation. She also informed that there was a committee to consider the merit of the application and the members of the committee were the Chief Social Development Officer; the Chief Medical Officer; the Clerk of the House of Assembly; and the Assistant Secretary in the Ministry of Health and Social Development. 2803. The Member for the Third District expressed that he did not think that the Clerk should be involved in the decision making process. The Minister for Health and Social Development noted that it was good that she was on the Committee in order to avoid cross pollination. 2804. The Member for the Third District noted that they had advocated for the independence of the process. The PSMHSD advised that 2805. The Member for the Third District asked how long the Clerk of the HOA was included in that decision making. The PSMHSD noted that the Clerk joined the committee before she herself joined the Ministry of Health.
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2806. The Member for the Fifth District asked if all requests for the assistance was medically based. The PSMHSD informed that not all were medical emergencies but most of them were. 2807. The Member for the Third District enquired if he could be informed of all those who had received the assistance so that he would not be made a fool of when persons came to him for financial assistance. The PSMHSD confirmed that he could have the information. Subhead 62510 Special Needs Programme 2808. The Member for the Third District asked if ninety thousand dollars ($90,000.00) was enough for this Sub Head. The PSMHSD informed that it was enough because there was also a special needs programme via the Department of Social Development. 2809. The Member for the Third District enquired how swift the process was. The

PSMHSD advised that some persons needed to be transported overseas for emergency treatment at which time their health insurance covered eighty percent (80%) of the expenses and the twenty percent (20%) was paid for from this Sub Head. 2810. The Member for the Third District asked if it was difficult to get the committee to meet. The PSMHSD informed that when they could not physically meet they would do so via round-robin. 2811. The Member for the Third District enquired who the coordinator of the committee was. The PSMHSD informed that the Assistant Secretary in the MHSD was the coordinator. 2812. The Member for the Third District asked which Assistant Secretary as there were two in the Ministry. The PSMHSD informed that she was referring to Mrs. Beverly Hodge-Smith.

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Subhead 63000 Drugs and Pharmaceutical Programme 2813. The Member for the Third District asked if this Sub Head pertained to the physical drugs at the hospital. The PSMHSD informed that the Ministry of Health did not purchase the drugs. 2814. The Member for the Third District enquired if there was testing for all the prescription drugs. The CMO confirmed that all were tested whereby the lab checked to see if the required percentage of ingredients were in the drugs. 2815. The Chairman asked if all drugs coming into the Territory were tested. The CMO informed that the medications were checked in batches at the pharmacies for things like the expiration date etc. He noted that such checks allowed them to be able to pull counterfeit drugs from the stocks. 2816. The Member for the Third District asked if the Territory still purchased drugs through the Organization of Eastern Caribbean States (OECS). The CMO informed that it did and that the balance which was overdue was recently paid and that there was a forty percent (40%) savings on the drugs. The PSMHSD made an appeal for a Chief Nursing Officer. 2817. The Member for the Third District asked what the duties were for a Chief Nursing Officer. The CMO informed that the Chief Nursing Officer prepared regulations for the nursing profession, laid out the functions for the Nurses and Midwives Council, provided guidance for nurses, and headed the development programme for the elderly. 2818. The Member for the Third District enquired if a Nurses Aid Certificate was accepted in the Territory. The CMO informed that it was not accepted but perhaps the person could work as an Assistant Nurse. Subhead 65800 Consultancy

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2819. The Member for the Second District suggested that vote for this Subhead throughout the budget should be moved and placed under one heading under the Premiers Office. Subhead 62255- Gender Affairs 2820. The Chairman welcomed the Coordinator for Gender Affairs. Subhead 60300 Authorised Staff 2821. The PSH&D asked that changes be made under authorised staff. She stated that she would like that the GAC be taken out from under Technical Unit and that a heading be created Office of Gender Affairs which would have the GAC, an AO, and a CO I/II/III. She also stated that under Administration there should be 3 CO I/II/III She further stated that one CO would fall under the

instead of the one specified.

heading OGA and the other two would remain under Administration. She stated that was the current complement of staff that the Ministry was not requesting any new positions. 2822. The GAC gave a preamble of what the office was all about and the mandate. She also stated the programmes that were in place to meet the office mandate and the challenges faced. She further stated that the office of Gender Affair was charged

with implementing policies and programmes that promote gender equality and equity. She noted that in doing so they are standing on the premise or thence of the United Nation Convention for the Elimination of all form of Discrimination against Woman known as CEDAW. She further noted that CEDAW was the driving force behind most of the work of the Office of Gender Affairs. The GAC also stated that they

have the millennium development goal and the platform for action. She further explained that the Office of Gender Affairs meet their mandate they have several policies. She stated that they were in the final stages of reviewing the National Gender Policy which the first submission was handed in October 2011, She stated that she had the Technical Support Committee which was the Committee formed to assist in the process of developing the policy meet to discuss the first submission as well as
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the practitioners who would have to implement the policy. She explained that after feedback from the committee she had submitted the policy to the Ministry of Health and Social Development. She stated that hopefully Dr. Mohammed would be able to give the office the final draft within the next few months. She also noted the national Domestic Violence Protocol a document being worked on by the OGA to have cohesive working knowledge within the four areas that deal with domestic violence, Law enforcement, Medical, Social Services and the Judiciary. The GAC stated that she was in the process of meeting with the stakeholders to train them on how we can go about save guarding our services using the protocol mandated by the different sectors. She further explained the programme Partnership for Peace (PFP) at the end of 2011 a total of 25 male completed that programme since it was started in 2010. She further explained that she sought funding from UNWOMEN to start an after support programme for men who completed the PFP, as the males often ask for support after they finish the 16 weeks programme. She stated that the PFP was a pilot project and was only being done in the BVI and in Grenada. She stated that

UNWOMAN are very impressed with the programme as no man who has done the PFP has reoffended. She stated that the OGA also has the Domestic Violence Act She also spoke about a CEDAW

and was in the process of implementation.

legislation review which should be completed by the March 23rd 2011. She noted that one of the challenges faced was more public awareness and not just focusing on the needs of the women but also the need of men, boys and girls. 2823. The Member for the Fifth District enquired why the programme was called after support. The GAC stated that it was called after support because it was for the men who completed the Partnership for Peace Programme. She further stated that this programme was offering support for those men after they have completed the first stage. 2824. The Member for the Fifth District also enquired of the GAC whether they started out with seven men to which the GAC agreed.

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2825. The Member for the Fifth District queried the number of men attending the PFP programme to date and when the programme was started. The GAC stated that to date they had 9 men involved in the PFP programme and started February 2012. She noted that the consultation process took place December 2011. 2826. The Member for the Sixth District enquired whether this programme was voluntary or mandated. The GAC stated that for the Partnership for Peace programme was usually court based. She noted that for the after support programme because the men have been through a 16 weeks programme it then becomes voluntary. 2827. The Member for the Sixth District enquired whether there were any female enrolled in the Partnership for Peace Programme. The GAC noted that at the moment the PFP programme was designed specifically for the men and one of the prerequisite for getting into the after support programme was completion of the PFP. 2828. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether there was a similar programme for women. The GAC stated that she was aware that this was a gap and was currently trying to develop a programme to address this issue. She also stated that was a complaint that was coming from the participants of the PFP programme. She further stated that the men complain that they are receiving the training and when they go home their women are the same. She stated that in the same light that OGA sorted out the after support programme she would be seeking help for a woman programme as well. 2829. Territorial Member Archibald Christian stated that it was important that a programme for women be developed as the office name is Gender Affairs. He stated that it was fair to say that individuals live in a society where in some countries men and women are regarded as equal with the same opportunities. 2830. The PSMOH&SD stated that the Partnership for Pease was meant to fill a gap on the services provided to men. She added that what they found was agencies and services available to women but for men who offend to which the vast majority of offending
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parties that come through the court system are male. She further added that the OGA did not feel that incarceration was the only option because that would not solve the issue if there was no help available at the prison. She stated that the OGA sort after this alternative programme that would actually help the men to have healthier relationships. She further stated that the programme was deliberately developed for reaching out to men and providing the services that they need. 2831. The Member for the Fifth enquired how the men who attended the PFP programme were categorised. The GAC stated that the programme was court mandated and attendance was usually determined by the Magistrate. She further stated that to date two persons went to the court and asked to be integrated into the programme of their own free will. 2832. The Member for the Second District enquired whether the GAC could inform the SFC some of the things that lead to Domestic Violence. The GAC stated that there are number of things that lead to domestic violence. She stated that the Partnership for Peace Programme focuses on putting the responsibility where it was due and that was on the individual, as a conscious choice had to be made in order to strike your partner. She noted that some of the things that lead to Domestic Violence are finances, lack of communication etc. responsibility. 2833. The Member for the Second District commented that in the BVI society presently the Territory has embraced a more service culture. He was of the opined that the female of the Country are the ones who become higher educated and in so doing become the bread winner in the family. He enquired of the GAC how this was affecting the family structure, 2834. The GAC stated that this was a serious issue, one of which the Gender Policy has identified as an area for policy intervention where they could get the Males in the Territory to function at a higher level academically as well as being able to finance their families. She noted that it those cause a strain on the relationship based on
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She further stated that the programme mostly focuses on

discussion with some men.

She further stated that this was an area that the

Department was working on and they acknowledge that there is a problem. 2835. The Member for Second District enquired whether this was an issue that the GAC addressed in counseling families and what recommendation has been made to the Government to develop policy to compact this problem. The GAC stated the problem with an even distribution of finances within a family. 2836. The Member for the Second District interjected and commented that it was called uneven distribution of finances because the female was making more money but not when the male was making more money and enquired an explanation from the GAC. 2837. The PSH&SD explained that the issue that the Member of the Second District was alluring to was Gender Equality. She noted that this was an issue that hit at the core of the fundamental believes about the role of women and men in society and the change was a gradual one. She also stated that the OGA would like to get this to a point where each member of the relationship is regarded on an equal basis. She further stated that it was not accepted as normal for the men to make more money or as a problem for women to do the same. She commented that financial management within the family was a skill that needed to be thought regardless of who makes the most money. She also commented that those changes are gradual and was not She further commented that it was about

something that they could legislate.

education and training the next generation primarily to understand the equal value of both persons in a relationship. 2838. The Member for the Second District was of the opined that the Government should assist in developing a programme to reeducate the thinking of the people of the Territory in this area. He further stated that it has been the accepted custom for many years that male gender was head and should be the main provider of his family. He stated that when a man can do that his manhood seems to be eroded which leads to Domestic Violence. The PSH&SD commented that about 60% of household in the Territory was female headed. She also commented that it has been a reality within the
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Territory that women have provided for their household. She further commented that this myth that historically men should be the bread winners was an unsure reality in the Territories culture. 2839. The Member for the Second District stated that most of the core values are based on Christian principles and ideas. He further stated that the bible teaches that a man who those not provide for his household was worst than an infidel. 2840. The PSH&SD stated that both men and women have a responsibility to provide for their families, in particular their children. She also stated that the OGA would continue in the effort to educate persons to not tie their self worth to their pay cheque and understand that they all have something to offer whether financially or otherwise to their family. She further stated that OGA would be helping men to living up to their responsibilities particularly in parenting theirs sons and daughters so that the Territory could have stronger families regardless of income levels. 2841. The Member for the Fifth added that she like the statement made by the PSH&SD that focus should not be placed on the pay cheques. She stated that the community has evolved with that type of mentality and hardly anyone has been concentrating on the woman contribution and its worth. She also noted that while the men are bring the income the woman works on so many other aspects of the home to keep things together that a dollar value cannot be placed on it. She further empathised that some programme needed to be formulated. She stressed on the point of insecurity and stated that there was a high level of insecurity by both men and women, and that the Government should encourage the OGA to continue educating the public along these lines. 2842. The Member for the Sixth enquired, of the cases that the OGA was working on presently whether they were mostly based on financial issues within the families. The GAC stated that most cases are based on lack of communication. She stated that not being able to sit at a table and discuss what the differences are and how to deal with the problem at hand.
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2843. The Member for the Second District queried the percentage value on the number of cases within OGA that leads to domestic violence within a family. The GAC stated that she those not have that information presently and would have to do some research. The PSH&SD explained that the issue was fundamentally about control. She also stated that finances were one of the battle grounds, because the management of money says a lot about control in a relationship. She added that most of the difficulties within a family do surround financial issues. 2844. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired who the coordinator was for the PFP Programme. The GAC stated that the coordinator for the PFP Programme was Minister Robert Wright. 2845. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that the GAC mentioned that one of the OGA challenges was public awareness. He enquired what avenues were being looked at to bring more public awareness to the Territory about Gender Affairs. 2846. The GAC stated that they have International Solidarity days that the OGA observes. She stated that one was International Womens Day which would be commemorated on 8th March 2012. She noted that the OGA would be on ZBVI radio programme the almanac where they would be speaking on the roles of OGA. She also noted that another way the OGA was going to bring Public Awareness was by handing out information at their health fair as well as all the other agencies that the Office collaborates with. She further stated that in bring public awareness the OGA hope to open people eyes to the importance of gender differences and what the office is doing to address these differences. 2847. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that there was radio, television and internet and enquired whether the OGA would be using these tools to get the message of the OGA out to the public. He noted that in particular the internet because virtually everyone gets there information from the internet. The GAC stated that that was an area that they were very keen on and the OGA was looking into ways to get Public Awareness out to persons through the internet this year.
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2848. The Member for Third District commented that the office use to be called the Womans desk and now was the OGA and enquired of the GAC how she would say the evolution of the office changed things throughout the Territory. The GAC stated that it changed over the course of the years as the Womens Desk dealt specifically with women issues and the OGA acknowledge that it was not just womens issues that needed to be addressed, but issues that concerned all members of our society male and female. She further stated that therefore Gender Affairs was more

appropriate as the office would have the opportunity or mandate to deal with both male and female. 2849. The Member for the Third District stated that when the office started out as the Womens Desk the office was dealing with women as the victims in circumstances in society. He also commented on the PFP Programme where the court mandate that some men fall under OGA jurisdiction and noted that was from a villain stand point. He enquired whether the OGA looked at men as the villains and women the victims or whether the OGA has a programme for victimised men. 2850. The GAC stated that the after support programme was not a programme that looked at making men villains but looked at putting men in a position to help other men. She also stated that she those not think that the PFP looked at men as being the perpetrators but a programme to enhance their own selves and a chance for the participants to develop as individuals. 2851. The Member for Third District enquired whether persons, who came before the OGA to participate in the PFP Programme from the court, are being convicted of some offence and part of their punishment was to attend the programme. The GAC stated that this was not really a punishment. She stated that the majority of men that came into the programme have stated resistance on being ordered to the programme, but after two or three weeks you get a completely different story. She noted that it was not about highlighting the crime but changing the participants behaviour and thought process.
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2852. The Member for Third District enquired whether this was an out patient relationship or whether there was a facility where the OGA kept the programme where they would have to attend on a daily basis. The GAC stated that the PFP programme ran on a 16 weeks basis, the participants meet every Wednesday from 5:30 to 7:30 and they cover different topics. She noted that the programme was based from a manual develop by the UN team of experts and was Psychosocial dealing with the psychological areas of the mind that dealt with violence. She further noted that this programme helped to look at ways the participants can better their selves. 2853. The Member for the Third District queried how the success of the PFP programme was majored. The GAC stated that none of the participating men have gone back before the court on domestic violence charges since the programme started in 2010. 2854. The Member for the Third enquired whether the OGA has had the opportunity to meet with the ladies who have been abused by these men. The GAC stated that she has not had the opportunity to meet with the women who have been victimized but was working closely with the Family Support Network and Social Development to address how the OGA can address the issues with women and get that programme up and running as well. 2855. The Member for the Third District stated that one way of testing the success of the PFP programme was that after the sixteen weeks, a session be held with the women to find out their opinion on the programme and whether the programme was effective. The GAC stated that the office has gotten phone calls from some of the women stating the significant changes in their partners. 2856. The Member for Third asked whether the OGA decides that extent of the PFP Programme was executed. The GAC stated that the PFP programme has two cycles per year and that they are on their fifth cycle. She noted that the sessions range from seven to eight men per cycle.

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2857. The Member for the Third District enquired who designed the PFP Programme. The GAC stated that the UN Expert Team designed the PFP Programme. 2858. The Member for the Third District also enquired whether once the OGA has the manual in their possession whether they decide how the programme runs. The GAC stated that the OGA follow the manual. 2859. The Member for the Third District further enquired whether this was a manual that anyone can follow or the person needed to be an expert. The GAC explained that all the facilitators have been trained previous to the programme starting in 2010 by the UN Consultants. 2860. The Member for the Third District enquired how many facilitators the OGA had to facilitate the PFP programme and who they were. The GAC stated that the PFP Programme had ten active facilitators. She explained that two facilitators are

assigned for the entire 16 weeks. She stated that the OGA want the programme to have structure and cohesion, so the participants only see two facilitators at any given time during the session which is usually male and female. The GAC stated that the facilitators came from various agencies such as Mental Health, Social Development and Family Support Network. 2861. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the duties of these facilitators were to go to these individuals. The GAC stated that the facilitators duties were to follow the manual and to ensure that the participants grasp what needed to be grasped from each subject. 2862. The Member for the Third District queried whether Domestic Violence was considered disease and whether it was curable. The GAC stated that Domestic Violence was not a disease but was a social illness. She stated that its treatable and the thought process can be altered where persons can think about what they are doing and walk away.

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2863. The Member for the Third District enquired if a person grew up in a household where this type of behaviour was turbulent, what was the likely hood that this person would become domestically abusive. The GAC stated that she those not have any statistics on this type of situation. She noted that the person can go either way, as it depends on the person resilience. 2864. The Member for the Third District enquired that in the OGA statistics gathering for participants who attend these sessions, what type of history those the individual have. The GAC stated that there have been cases where some of the men who attend the session were abused or seen it growing up in the home. 2865. The Member for the Third District enquired what government agency was available extend some type of programme to those parents. The GAC stated that being in social work for so many years has opened her eyes to a lot of the reasons behind Domestic Violence. She stated that as a result, she could honestly state that when these men come to OGA, and she speaks with them there was sense that they may need further support other than PFP Programme, she would then contact the Social Development. 2866. The Member for the Third District was of the opined that Domestic Violence was cultural where it has become basically a norm up until 10 years ago, that it was always a word and a blow and the female always been at the other end of the blow. 2867. The GAC stated that this was why members of the SFC agreed with her that there was a need for public education. She stated that domestic violence was enshrined in our

culture and was something that had to be dealt with. She noted that the Territory can no longer close their eyes to the issues. She further noted that as result there was a lot of juvenile delinquencies as they did not learn how to deal with their anger and they lash out, which cause a lot of the violence. She explained that it was not just the

male and female involved but also those children in the household watching this behavior, and going out taking their frustration on society.

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2868. The Member for the Third stated that OGA try to instill in these individual a sort of social behavior thats acceptable and you have another government agency that vigorously pursue these individual for prosecution. He enquired whether Social

Development plays a strong role in domestic violence or only deal with child abuse. 2869. The PSH&SD stated that under the Domestic Violence Act which was yet to be assented to by the governor the specific responsibility has been placed on the Social Development Department to response to matter of domestic violence . She stated that prior to the Act; most of the interventions were lead by the Family Support Network. The PSH&SD commented that the OGA was only one portion of the work and looked at Gender based violence. She also commented that gender was about the roles men and women play in society. She further commented that OGA also looked at issues such as male achievement in school, men access to the health care system, no social support for men as they age which looked at how they conducted their life. She also commented on the women empowerment or lack of it, and how that impacts such issues as HIV/AIDS and other transmitted diseases. She stated that every aspect of society can be analysed through a gender lens, to see how improvement can be made to the way that individuals relate to each other. She emphasized that yes the OGA intervenes the very vexing issue of gender based violence but it was not the entire mandate of the office. She stated that as the OFA finalised the Gender Policy every sector would be aware that theres a role for everyone to play in order to achieve gender equality in the Virgin Islands. 2870. The Member for the Third District stated the PSH&SD mentioned access to healthcare and enquired what role those the OGA play in making sure men and women have access to healthcare. The PSH&SD explained that OGA has the responsibility to work with several agencies. She noted that the OGA was a

coordinating body that looked at policies and analyses. She further stated if the MONR has a labour policy or housing policy it can be analysed from a gender prospective to whether it unfairly marginalises one group as apposed to another. She

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noted that yes the agencies would overlap but they have to work collaboratively to be successful in what the Government tries to achieve. 2871. The GAC stated that OGA looked at policy intervention and how the issues of inequality between male and female in the different sectors. She stated that OGA looked at legislation, education, health, economic activity, gender ideology from a policy prospective. 2872. The Member for the Third District enquired whether there was equality in the workplace where an individual gets equal work for equal pay in the BVI. The GAC stated that there were a few discrepancies but overall there women in job which men may typically hold would receive the same pay. 2873. The Member for the Third District was of the opinion that there was a female class in the Virgin Island that was poised to go some place significant before the next decade, to which the GAC agreed. 2874. The Member for the Third District was of the view that the male sex was in danger of becoming marginalised and within the next decade would be unseen. He enquired whether the OGA was paying attention to this situation. The GAC stated that OGA was striving for equality across the board and not on the expense of the male as they could never be outdone. She noted that both genders need to work together to strive for excellence in the society. 2875. The Member for the Third District noted that he was happy to see that women have risen to the level that they are and are going head. He stated that most of the high positions in Government were held by female. He also stated that maybe the OGA has reached gender equality and commended them for their good work. 2876. The Member for the Fifth District enquired when the Domestic Violence Act was passed. The GAC stated that the Domestic Violence Act was passed in the House of Assembly in September 2011, assented to 3rd October 2011 but had not been brought into force.
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2877. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the regulations for the Domestic Violence act were in place. The GAC stated that the OGA were presently working on the regulations for the act. Subhead 62620 Environmental Health 2878. The Chairman welcomed the panel to the SFC proceedings and asked that they state their names for the record to which they complied. 2879. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if the seven (7) officers were responsible for inspecting all the restaurants in the Territory. The CEHO informed that they were and that one of the officers was actually stationed on Virgin Gorda and that the officers were also responsible for clearing Cruise Ships and other vessels. 2880. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked how the inspections were carried out. The CEHO advised that the inspections were carried out approximately twice per annum but could be done more times depending on complaints. 2881. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about trainees. The CEHO

advised that trainees were persons who wanted to get into the profession and thus were assigned to a Health Care worker to gain knowledgeable experience. 2882. The Member for the Third District asked how was nuisances of liquid waste were dealt with. The CEHO informed that it was public waste flowing from one persons property onto someone elses property which was usually because of density. He noted that many properties were limited in space for the use of waste disposal. He further noted that many persons cooperated with the department but in cases where persons were not the assistance of the Attorney Generals Chambers would be sought. 2883. The Member for the Third District enquired how the process was carried out. The CEHO informed that persons were given written notice of the infraction.

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2884. The Member for the Third District also enquired how the Department of Public Prosecution (DPP) dealt with the process. The CEHO informed that only the DPPs Office could answer that question. 2885. The Member for the Third District asked how long it would be before the DPPs office intervened. The CEHO advised that there were some cases which were

submitted one year prior and the department was still awaiting an update form the DPP. 2886. The Member for the Third District expressed that he did not like that satisfaction was given to the nuisances and felt that Government needed to do more with such matters. The CEHO noted that liquid waste had increased and was slated to get much worse as there were not many restrictions on the builders leaving enough land for waste disposal. As such, the CEHO noted that the East End/Long Look area could not have any more development because of this problem. 2887. The Member for the Eight District asked if any studies were carried out on the health risks of fogging and the chemicals flowing from the roof into the water supply. The CEHO informed that he had concerns and so he tried to eradicate the mosquito from the aquatic stage. 2888. The Member for the Eight District enquired whether homes with infants should be recommended to boil their water before using. The CEHO informed that he did not think that all fogging prosed health risks. 2889. The Member for the Eight District noted that there was a high population of iguanas in his District and asked if there were any control measures in place for iguanas. The CEHO advised that the department was not involved in the control of iguanas. 2890. The Member for the Fifth District enquired if there were any complaints about the smell pertaining to rodent control programme. The CEHO informed that there were no complaints because the chemical used to kill the rodents was designed to dehydrate them quickly so no stench was involved. !"#$%)!&%&'%"#$%

2891. The Member for the Third District asked if the CEHO ever recommended a programme to address building proper soak a ways and he also wanted to know if the manufactured systems worked. The CEHO advised that the design of septic systems had been improved however there were always going to be challenges because of the terrain and type of soil in the Territory which was clay-like and did not absorb water. The CEHO also noted that the mechanical sewerage system would work but they required regular maintenance and that most of the problems with sewerage stemmed from the fact that persons used up the majority of their land for the building and extremely little for the sewerage system. 2892. The Member for the Fifth District asked if adding additional floors to a structure was a problem. The CEHO confirmed that it was. 2893. The Member for the Third District enquired what sort of decisions was sought. The CEHO informed that all decisions were sought through the courts. 2894. The Member for the Third District asked if after a judgment was handed down if persons complied. The CEHO informed that they did. 2895. The Member for the Third District enquired if vector control worked by killing the mosquitoes. The CEHO confirmed that fogging killed mosquitoes in flight and those which rested on leaves of plants even after fogging as a residual layer remained on leaves and also killed the mosquitoes. 2896. The Member for the Eight District enquired about the number of Environmental Officer. The CEHO informed that there were seven (7) Environmental Officers. 2897. The Member for the Eight District enquired how many were BVI-landers. The CEHO informed that two (2) were BVI-landers. 2898. The Member for the Eight District asked if special training was required to be an Environmental Officer. The CEHO confirmed that special training was needed.

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2899. The Member for the Eight District enquired who set the requirements for becoming an Environmental Officer. requirements. 2900. The Member for the Eight District asked where the institutions were located. The CEHO informed that institutions were located in Barbados, Trinidad and Jamaica. 2901. The Member for the Eight District enquired what was being done to get more locals involved in the field. The CEHO informed that three (3) trainees were leaving for university in September 2012. 2902. The Member for the Fifth District enquired which school the trainees were going to attend. The CEHO informed that the trainees were going to study for the Bachelors Degree in Missouri. He also noted that he had made presentations at H. Lavity Stoutt Community College (HLSCC) to attract more persons to the field. 2903. The Member for the Eight District asked how the trainees were performing. The CEHO informed that the trainees were quite competent and could even handle inspections on their own with the exceptions of cases where there were legal complications. 2904. The Member for the Fifth District enquired if there were going to be new trainees at the department while the others were obtaining their college education. The CEHO informed that it was part of his modus apparatus to have new trainee while others were at college. The CEHO informed that each institution set their

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HEAD 440

SANDY LANE CENTER

2905. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian asked that the members of the SFC be briefed about the program at the SLC which included how many persons are being treated, how many persons stay and go and what help is required. 2906. The MSLC stated that the SLC is an alcohol and drug dependency rehabilitation program that offers transitional housing and at any given time the residential portion of the program including the number of individuals varies. She further stated that in 2011 there were 17 persons who passed thorough but it was averaged that five persons passed through the transitional housing. The SLC also provided individual and group counseling so when put together there was a total of 123 persons who passed through the program in 2011. She further stated that from 2005 to 2011 the program at the SLC has seen 339 individuals. The day treatment was started in 2011 and the prison drug program was restarted. The SLC drafted the Drug Policy for employee testing and counseling services on Virgin Gorda has been resumed. She also stated that an outreach program was presented to 1389 students. She further stated that what was needed at the SLC if they were to continue to manage the transitional housing programme aspect more staffing would be required as the current staff is not sufficient to provide the necessary coverage for the programme which is an ethical and legal liability. 2907. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired how many more staff members would be required to carry out the functions of the SLC. 2908. The MSLC stated that a minimum of 2 to 3 members would be required. 2909. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian inquired whether the additional staff members would be required to obtain any training or preferred qualifications.

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2910. The MSLC stated that she would like persons with a minimum of a Bachelors Degree and persons that could cover from 4:30pm through 8:30 pm and on weekends which were the sections that presented difficulty. 2911. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired what field of study would be required for the person who had a Bachelors degree. 2912. The MSLC stated that the person would have to have a Bachelors Degree in any of the areas of Psychology, Social Work or Human Services. 2913. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the most active period was between 4:30 p.m. and 8:30 a.m. 2914. The MSLC stated that it wasnt necessarily the most active period but was the period which had no supervision. 2915. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired what would happen in the cases where there was no supervision. 2916. The MSLC stated that the SLC had security services on premises from 4:30pm to 8:30pm and in addition to needs, the current staff can benefit from additional training and also the additional benefits that have been afforded to other health care workers. 2917. The Member for the Eighth District enquired how many staff members were currently at the SLC. 2918. The MSLC stated that there were 6 persons on staff at the SLC one staff member was currently on leave. 2919. The Member for the Sixth District enquired how many persons were housed in the transitional housing programme. 2920. The MSLC stated that there were currently 5 persons housed in the transitional housing program.
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2921. Territorial

Member,

Archibald

C.

Christian

enquired

what

the

typical

accommodations were for person who came to the SLC for treatment and occupied the transitional housing programme. 2922. The MSLC stated that an assessment would be done as everyone who needed treatment needed to be housed in the program. This was done based on the severity of the substance abuse and based on the findings with respect to support services then a decision would be made. It was usually done for a minimum of 30 days at which time the progress and treatment review would be done at which time the accommodation would be extended depending on the need. 2923. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired whether meals and medical attention were provided for persons in the programme. 2924. The MSLC stated that meals are provided. She also stated that there is a cook on staff at the SLC. She also stated that medical attention is provided at the Road Town Clinic and also Community Mental Health as there was a strong link between substance abuse and mental health. 2925. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired whether there was a medical technician at the SLC. 2926. The MSLC stated that there wasnt anyone at the SLC that provided medical assistance. 2927. The Member for the Third District enquired what the treatment programme would be like for Alcoholics and Drug Addicts. 2928. The MSLC stated that depended on the severity of the case the course of treatment may be similar in which they would go through detoxification in collaboration with the hospital. She also stated that after that stage the person would then be sent to the SLC to do an assessment of the severity of the drug or alcohol use and are assigned a counselor and a treatment plan. At SLC moderation programmes were not encouraged
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and abstinence program however that decision is made in conjunction with the client where family issues and financial issues may be also addressed as a holistic approach. Additionally an aftercare stage would also be developed upon discharge. HEAD 440 NATIONAL AIDS ADVISORY

2929. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked that the NAC give a clear and comprehensive report about the AIDS situation in the territory and what is currently being done about it. 2930. The NAC stated that in the Virgin Islands since June 1985 up until December 2011 there were 99 cases reported to the MH&SD. She further stated that of the 99 cases there were 35 AIDS related deaths so 1/3 of the infected persons have passed on which left a total of approximately 64 cases within the territory which was not certain as persons moved from one country to the other. She additionally stated that of the 64 persons that may be alive there were 27 persons who accessed care and treatment in country whether it be in the public or private sector. She also stated that 14 persons saw doctors at the public chronic disease clinic and 13 persons saw doctors within the private sector. She stated that anti-retroviral medication was available 1st 2nd and 3rd line; 2nd and 3rd being stronger and these were medications that were given to clients who were resistant to 1st line therapy. She further stated that there were 26 persons on 1st line treatment 2 persons on 2nd line given they were resistant to the 1st line treatment and there were no persons on 3rd line. Additionally she stated that 5 women who were HIV infected gave birth to babies and of the 5 babies 3 tested negative for HIV up until now and two gave birth to HIV infected babies. One of those babies died and the other was still ongoing treatment. She stated that up until 2007, there were 68 new cases; in 2008 there were 9 new cases; in 2009 there were 9 new cases; in 2010 there were 7 new cases and in 2011 there were 6 new cases so it appears that amount of cases which was not only locally but it was globally which cannot be guaranteed if the majority of the population was not tested that was why the National AIDS Programme was so diligent in promoting HIV testing so persons were aware of their
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status and got the help that they needed. She further stated that most persons test late with the majority being male who only tested when they felt sick and were about to die but it was preferred that persons tested early so that they prevented contracting AIDS or dying from AIDS related illnesses. She then stated as a National AIDS Programme, they were responsible for policy development as well as prevention treatment, care and programmes territory wide and this is supposed to be done via a multi-sector stakeholder approach although over the years most of the burden of HOV or STI management has fallen on the NAP other than the MH&SD but they were in the process of developing a national strategic plan for HIV for the Virgin Islands which was supposed to be done between March 21st and 22nd a consultant would be brought in to meet with the stakeholder to have the plan developed. She stated that the plan is a one year plan which is to be implemented and it is in readiness. She stated that in 2004 where 15 new cases were reported where it had a maximum of 5 so just in case there is an increase in the amount of cases the NAP is better able to deal with it. 2931. The Member for the 5th District enquired what is 1st, 2nd, and 3rd line. 2932. The NAC stated that viruses cannot be cured and what basically happened was that the symptoms which occurred in relation to the viral infection would be treated. 1st line therapy for HIV would be basic drugs that can treat certain parts of the process of the HIV infection whereas they would block the attack of the CD4 or blocking the action of the virus inside the cell or preventing it from destroying the cell altogether and there were groups of drugs that do not work and therefore there would be need to progress to 2nd line drugs. She stated that 2nd line ARVs are stronger and more expensive and where 2nd line treatment is not working the patient would go on to 3rd line ARVs. she stated that many persons do not like taking 3rd line treatment because the person suffers a lot more from the side effects of those medication because they are so strong. She stated that the 1st line treatment are extremely affordable and free medications is given from the Brazilian government through the OECSPPS and so the medication that is received free is given to patients but if someone was to pay it
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would approximately be $6 per prescription and the HIV/AIDs organisation subsidises that cost whereas 2nd line treatment may cost up to $1800 per patient per month. Drug companies in India were currently being looked at that were providing the entire Caribbean region with 2nd line ARVs at a cheaper rate so it is the hope that 2nd line ARVs would be at least $300 per year per patient. 2933. The Member for the 5th District enquired how a case was handled where it discovered by a doctor discover that a baby had the virus and enquired how these matters were handled. 2934. The NAC stated that in the Virgin Islands just like other jurisdictions around the world there was something being introduced called PMTCT (Prevention from Mother to Child Transmission) of HIV and AIDS and recently the World Health Organization added Syphilis. She stated that for every pregnant woman who access care within the territory via clinics etc. there were tested within the 1st trimester for HIV and if the woman was found to be HIV negative they were retested in the 3rd trimester to ensure that she hasnt become infected during pregnancy. She stated that if she tested positive within the first trimester treatment was started with special drugs that were given to prevent transmission. She further stated that the prevention of transmission is not guaranteed but statistics show that 1 in 3 women would still pass on the virus but majority which is 2/3 would not pass on the virus to the unborn child. 2935. The Member for the 5th District enquired whether the child would then be treated for the virus. 2936. The NAC stated that the child was tested upon birth and if tested positive the pediatric doctors had access to antiretroviral suspensions which were given up until 18 months and the one infant case that existed was under 18 months and was currently still undergoing treatment at Peebles Hospital for HIV and at 18 months it would be verified whether that child would live the rest of their life with HIV.

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2937. The Member for the 5th District enquired whether there were any cases in the Virgin Islands where children are living with the virus. 2938. The NAC stated that there was none known at that time. She also stated that there was one teenager, the first baby that was born died and the second baby is still alive. 2939. The Member for the 5th District enquired whether there were other children who had the virus. 2940. The NAC stated that there was no record of anyone younger than 20 years separate and apart from the infant that was mentioned. 2941. The Member for the 5th District enquired whether there were any regular programmes for persons to indicate their willingness to be tested at any time or was there specific campaign for months or campaigns which invited persons to be tested. 2942. The NAC stated that at the NAP there was a need identified for HIV testing to become more accessible. She also stated that many persons in the territory, when doing their physicals whether in the public or private sector tested for HIV as part of the routine check for whether it may have been pap smear, sugar, pressure, cholesterol etc. but there was an issue with respect to confidentiality which was still existent a where persons do not trust the health system as much as hoped so there were a number of persons who traveled to St. Thomas or Puerto Rico to get tested so what was offered to be done was to create access to HIV testing at the NAP. She further stated that HIV rapid test kits were purchased where persons can know their HIV status within 20 minutes and the tests were 99.6% accurate. She stated that there were positive cases and once known to be positive they were taken to the lab so that a confirmatory test would be done and then persons are referred to Health Services. She further stated that campaigns were done such as Regional Testing Day with other Caribbean countries where persons were encouraged to come in to Scotia Bank to access testing. She stated that additionally, testing was offered to churches, businesses and some accepted that where staff had been tested and persons information was kept
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confidential. She also stated that the NAP was in the process implementing what is call PITC (Provider Initiated Testing & Counseling) where the entire health sector in the territory would make it a part of the routine visits to offer HIV testing to all persons no matter what they come in for to increase access to testing. She stated that the NAP was also in the process of training doctors, nurses, pharmacists, physiotherapists, laboratory technicians in clinical management of HIV. The territory would not be behind and other OECS countries were participating in the program with the University of Washington to ensure that all clinicians are on par with global standards in respect of treating the disease as WHO predicts that by 2020 complications of HIV/AIDS would be a major situation as many people were living longer with the disease and so toxicity to the drugs and other issues that relate to the drugs will occur so they were to ensure that all persons were on board, up to par and ready to deal with it effectively. 2943. All persons were seen at the Chronic Disease Clinic. She then stated that there were challenges in getting the chronic disease clients there so that persons with HIV would go along with persons with diabetes, high blood pressure, asthma and every other person with chronic illnesses so that everyone was seen at the same place but as on now persons with HIV were seen there and they were very happy with that arrangement. 2944. The Member for the Third District enquired how often would persons with the virus go to the clinic. 2945. The NAC stated that person would be expected to see their doctor if they are not as stable as hoped, every three months usually which could be more frequent which was dependant on the level of the CD4. She further stated that there were persons who visited their doctor every six months because their cases are so well controlled. 2946. The Member for the Third District enquired whether patients with the virus are seen by appointments as a group or would they go together with persons with other chronic diseases.
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2947. The NAC stated that persons with HIV/AIDS who sought clinicians in the public sector were given appointments for them alone and so they are prevented from meeting anyone else so two would be scheduled for the day one in the morning and one in the afternoon so that they would not know the identity of each other. She also stated that in the private sector it was different because everyone accessed care based on appointments. 2948. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired what the definition of CD4 was. 2949. The NAC explained that in the body there are different systems and in science lessons were taught about the central nervous system which is the brain and the spinal cord, the cardiac system which is the heart and the immune system and within the immune system there is what is called the white blood cells. White blood cells are responsible for protecting the body against diseases so even the tonsils are a part of the immune system but within the white blood cell there is what is called the Killer T Cells that attack but Killer T Cells do not attack unless they are alerted by CD4. CD4 is likened to the siren that the Department of Disaster Management has. When that is sounded we are supposed to tune in to the radios or televisions to find out what is happening. The CD4 alerts all the white blood cells the Killer T Cells that there is something in the body that should not be there and once CD4 sends the signal and all the other white blood cells take action and attack whatever germ is there and HIV to date has been found one of the most intelligent viruses that has been found. HIV enters the body and becomes friends with CD4, attaches itself to CD4 and once inside of it, commands CD4 to multiply or to make copies of HIV and when it is finished with CD4 leaves it and destroys it and that is what happens when someone is infected with HIV. Once a persons CD4 drops below 350 then that person has to be treated for AIDS because there is a point where the body has no defense. 2950. The NAC further stated that the NAP required professional and confidential staffing to assist in the implementation of the program activities. She also stated that the NAP
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required space where the support group can meet along with persons with HIV and get the care and counseling that they need. She also stated that the NAP is located in general office space and it was previously a problem with Dr. McAnaney in the Ministry of Health. She stated that she was not looking for a private clinic or private space but for a separate office space where persons who lived with HIV can come in and feel comfortable. These issues are important to have the persons living with HIV empowered and feel comfortable. 2951. The Member for the Second District stated that he had perused the 2012 allocation and noticed that the only funding allotted to the NAP was under Head 440 under the Ministry of Health. He also stated that he looked at Subhead 62410 and noticed that the NAP received a grant of $32, 550 and also under Subhead 62967, HIV and Sexual Health 2011 the NAP had access to $26, 300 but for 2012 it is down to $21,300. He enquired whether, apart from the operation of the clinic, whether this was the only allotted contribution that was made to the NAP in the budget. 2952. The PSMHSD stated that the funding for the NAP is provided for under Subhead 62967. She also stated that the contribution made under Subhead 62410 was the contribution to the HIV/AIDS foundation which is a Non Governmental organization that provides assistance to persons living with HIV to access testing etc. She further stated that the NAP has been successful in getting funding from other organization to assist with funding. 2953. The NAC stated that the Virgin Islands has participated in two regional projects, one was funded by the Department for International Development who provided funded to all British Overseas Territories to scale up HIV access so the program was ran from 2009 and ended in 2011 and the NAP was able to do a number of activities including training 70 teachers in health and family life education the sex and sexuality component, 21 trainers were also trained so that when training was required that would be available without soliciting the help from persons overseas. She also stated that the NAP was also part of the EU project that was provided by the European
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Union through the Pan American Health Organisation HIV/AIDS Caribbean Office that was based in Trinidad and Barbados. She stated that 6 million Euros were received for 11 British and Dutch overseas territories. For the past 3 years the NAP ensured that they had all the resources that were required to scale up the equipment at the Peebles Hospital including a CD4 machine. She stated that a situation analysis was also done along with training of health care providers. The goal was to ensure that after the EU project the country would be able to stand on our own and to manage HIV regardless of which rout it takes. By 2015 there should be a wrap on things. She stated that the $21,300 was the operating budget and would be used to buy condoms, HIV test kits, financing the annual national youth summit for young people. She stated that the NAP wanted to do workplace wellness and also go into churches. Seeing the goals that had to be undertaken the allotted $21,300 was very tiny. 2954. The Member for the Second District enquired how the goal of the HIV/AIDS Foundation relates to the goal of the NAP. 2955. The NAC stated that the foundation sis a non-governmental and is currently being chaired by Dr. Ronald McAnaney who was the former NAC. She further noted that the NGOs role is to agitate the Government and lobby by the main role is to ensure that funding is provided for some of the 1st line medications, lab tests for persons that are HIV infected but subsidizing the cost and that helps with care and treatment. 2956. The Member for the Third District stated that the NAC stated that there was a need for legalizing tattooing and he was interested in finding out why tattooing was mentioned and what was the concern about it. 2957. The NAC stated that there were many ways to contract HIV besides unprotected sex which are mother to child transmission, drug abuse, and also unsterile needles through tattooing and piercings and if the government is able to have tattooing legalised, persons performing tattoos could be monitored and regulated.

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2958. The Member for the Third District enquired whether there was a problem in the territory with intravenous drug use. 2959. The NAC stated that there isnt a current problem that is known. She also stated that it is known that in Puerto Rico 80% of persons contracted HIV through injection drug use. She also stated that the problems that have been coming about were persons getting high and drunk and sleeping with persons that had the Virus or persons have transactional sex just to get the money to buy the drugs which were the area of concern. He further stated that to date there wasnt any know cases where persons contracted HIV/AIDS through IV drug use. 2960. The Member for the Third District enquired whether there were IV drug users in the territory. 2961. The NAC stated that she was unaware if there was. 2962. The Member for the Third District enquired why the NAC was interested in IV drug use but is not interested in the sex. 2963. The NAC stated that she is interested in both situations but as of now she was totally unaware as the data is not present. 2964. The Member for the Third District enquired whether it was important that it was checked to find out whether there were intravenous drug users. 2965. The NAC stated that based on the information that was received from the Sandy Lane Center who works very closely with the NAP there was no one who accessed care and treatment at the center who were intravenous drug users. 2966. The Member for the Third District stated that this was interesting because as far as the brothels are concerned there wasnt anyone who dealt with brothels but the brothels were identified but as far as intravenous drug users are concerned none have been found to date which he is sure that there are persons who are intravenous drug users.
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He then inquired whether it was safe to state that the contraction of HIV/AIDS through intravenous drugs is not a concern. 2967. The NAC stated that it is a concern and the NAP always have antennas out in this regard but it is not a focus of the prevention efforts as yet although people are educated and know about this although there is no record of persons contracting the virus through intravenous drug use. 2968. The Member for the Third District stated that after listening to the NAC he thought that persons using 1st, 2nd and 3rd line drugs would show different symptoms. 2969. The NAC stated that she understood the Member to be enquiring about the stages of HIV. She stated that when a person is infected with HIV they can live for 8-10 years without any signs or symptoms as they have no look or feeling that was separate and apart from what they usually have. She also stated that signs of AIDS are very vague and that the person might have a slight headache once in a while, dry cough, the lymph nodes under your arm and neck, behind your ears and by the groin may swell every once in a while, but these are symptoms are usually overlooked because they come and go. She also stated that when a person goes into the AIDS phase which was described earlier when the CD4 drops below 350, persons may get symptoms like chronic diarrhea, which may lead to weight loss where the person becomes very emaciated and are described as skin on bones, and additionally suffers from severe night sweats and loss of appetite and contracts simple infections that can be fought off for example pneumonia. She further stated that there is a special type of diseases which only affects persons with HIV. Once in HIV or AIDS phase, persons are treated with ARVs starting with the 1st line medication but testing is done to ensure that 1st line can do the job. If 1st line drugs would not work, then 2nd line drugs would be used and so forth. 2970. The Member for the Third District enquired whether or not persons on the street would notice if they had the virus based on symptoms or would they have to visit a health care professional.
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2971. The NAC stated that this was the case. She also stated that there were many persons who came in to the hospital with AIDS and have been treated who is now in such good health that they have gone out with the level of CD4 above 350 and they are still living HIV positive. There are also persons whose viral loads are undetected where the virus is still in the blood but below a level of 50 copies. 2972. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired how long persons could live with HIV. 2973. The NAC stated that persons with HIV can live as long as they are destined to live which can be for long periods of time as long as persons are tested early and get the treatment that they need. 2974. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian stated that a number of years ago there was a myth which stated that the HIV/AIDS virus was created in a lab by man. He then inquired whether this was true. 2975. The NAC stated that there were many myths and theories which stated where HIV originated. She stated that there was one myth which stated that the Africans ate the monkey meat that had the HIV virus etc. but to date no research has proven where HIV/AIDS came from. She stated that it is known to be here and has to be dealt with accordingly which goes to show that all the sexual behaviours within the Caribbean says something about how the virus is spread. She also stated that the first case of HIV was found in 1981 in Los Angeles, CA by a homosexual male even though it is stated that there were cases before but HIV was not at the time an established disease. 2976. The Member for the Second District stated that in an attempt to decrease the amount of STDs one of the most popular activity in the world is being silenced. 2977. The Member for the Third District enquired whether apart from the request for additional staffing, did the NAC think that enough attention is being paid to mitigating the spread of the virus and the contraction of it.
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2978. The NAC stated that she was pleased with the feedback received form persons in the SFC and it was very exciting. She also stated that she hoped for continued interest as awareness was raised in respect to the territorys position. She further stated that HIV is more than a health problem and more than a disease and if the Virgin Islands were more countries with the Caribbean like for example Trinidad and Tobago, Jamaica, Bahamas, Dominican Republic and Haiti where every other person was HIV positive, more attention would be paid to the disease. She further stated that a lot of persons do not know anyone with the virus so it hasnt hit that close to home. She stated that as a country we dont want to wait until that time when HIV is a huge problem socially and economically as persons will be absent from work and hospitalized and additionally the hospital would be overwhelmed. She asked that more attention be paid to the virus now so that the effects are lessened later. 2979. The Member for the Second District stated that through education, this problem could be addressed. He enquired what resources were necessary to ensure that all persons in the Territory were educated about this disease. 2980. The NAC stated that she extends an invitation to all members of the House of Assembly on the 22nd March 2012, to the Multi-Sectorial Stakeholder Development of the National Strategic Plan for HIV/AIDS where all hands would be onboard including tourism sector, financial services, faith based organisations, community or civil society and health sector to mitigate the spread as the NAP cannot do it alone. She also stated that education is important but legislation also helps as it is a part of it as with legislation it can be managed, monitored and regulated with respect to certain industries. 2981. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that on behalf of the SFC the NAC was doing a very good job. He thanked the NAC for a job well done in this program and stated that she had his full assistance in any issues that may arise. 2982. The Chairman thanked the panel for coming and answering questions and concerns posed by Members.
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!"#$%)'$%&'%"#$%

HEAD 450 Present:

ADINA DONOVAN HOME

Mrs. Petrona Davies

Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Health and Social Development (PSHSD)

Mrs. Victoria Wheatley Mrs. Jasmine Joseph Mrs. Carolyn Stoutt-Igwe

Manager, Adina Donovan Home (MADH) Deputy Manager, Adina Donovan Home Deputy Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Health And Social Development (DPSHSD)

Ms. Keisha Donovan

Finance Officer, Ministry of Health and Social Development

Ms. Natasha Julius Mr. Anthony McMaster

Human Resources Manager Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Health Social Development

Mr. Lavink Lettsome

Accounts Officer, Adina Donovan Home

2983. The Chairman welcomed the panel to the SFC Meeting. 2984. The Manager of the Adina Donovan Home (MADH) noted that most of the challenges at the Adina Donovan Home (the home) were structural. She also noted that any financial challenges were rectified by the Accounts Officer. 2985. The Member for the Third District asked how many vacancies there were. The MADH informed that there was space for thirty (30) residents but there were presently twenty-five (25) as the structure of the building had not allowed for the

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accommodation of more residents. She also noted that there were thirty-five (35) members of staff and there were five (5) vacancies. 2986. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked why the facility could not accommodate more residents as it was newly renovated. The MADH informed that only the roof was renovated and the rest of the building remained untouched as it was too old and columns could not be removed nor doorways widened. 2987. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired how many rooms could not be used. The MADH informed that there were three (3) unusable rooms on the ground floor and one (1) on the first floor. She noted that the room on the first floor was unusable because the vent from the laundry room was right next to it and was a hazard in case of fire. 2988. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if a new facility was needed. The MADH advised that a new facility was needed as the ramp was difficult to maneuver and that there were more ambulatory residents than not. 2989. The Member for the Third District enquired how many persons were on the waiting list. The MADH informed that there were ten (10) who urgently needed to be in the home and another forty (40) on the waiting list. 2990. The Member for the Fifth District asked where the persons were from. The MADH informed that most of the persons on the waiting list were from St. Thomas, St. John and St. Croix. 2991. The Minister for Education and Culture asked how often the residents at the home were fed. The MADH informed that they were fed breakfast, lunch, dinner and three snacks.

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Sub Head 62630 Nutrition Costs 2992. The Minister for Education and Culture noted that the amount of money in the Sub Head seemed very low. The MADH advised that the diets of the residents were very nutritious and well balanced and that their diet was different from that of younger persons. She also noted that many donations were given to the home which helped to offset the cost of the food. 2993. The MADH informed that the residents were taken to picnics, the beach and the seniors banquet. She also noted that those who were not debilitated attended the senior citizens programme and church on Saturdays and Sundays. Sub Head 62640 Recreation Activities/Programme 2994. The Minister for Education and Culture noted that the money allotted in that Sub Head seemed very low. The Minister for Health and Social Development reassured that the residents were going to be taken care of. Sub Head 61220 Electricity 2995. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian noted that the cost of electricity was extremely high. The MADH informed that the washers and dryers were in use all day to ensure clean clothes and linen for the residents as well as the lights had to be kept on 24 hours to ensure the safety of the residents as some of them got out of bed at all hours. She also noted that for the comfort of the residents the air conditioning was on 24 hours per day as well. 2996. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what type of light bulbs was used. The MADH informed that LED and florescent lights were used. 2997. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired about the staff. The MADH

expressed that she felt good about all the staff but that there was a need for more skilled workers as who were presently employed were skilled to work with the elderly but not ill elderly.

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2998. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if employees received a honourarium. The MADH informed the she had made recommendations but it not received, it was still pending. 2999. The MADH expressed the need for three (3) more registered nurses so that all shifts were covered to evaluate and report quickly. 3000. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired how many nurses were on staff. The MADH informed that there was one nurse on staff and that there was a need for the position of two (2) more to be approved.

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HEAD 480 Present:

SOLID WASTE

Mrs. Petrona Davies Mr. Anselm Myers Mr. Greg Massicot Ms. Natasha Julius Mr. Anthony McMaster Ms. Kisha Donovan

Permanent Secretary Manager Assistant Manager Human Resources Manager Finance and Planning Officer Finance Officer

3001. The Chairman welcomed all in attendance to the Standing Finance Committee and asked that they state their names for the record. 3002. The Member for the Third District stated that the incinerator area was plagued with smoke not too long ago, there were a lot of complaints, but he had not heard any complaints lately and asked the Manager to give a status report. 3003. The Manager stated that the new 100 ton unit which was purchased by government was commissioned in September 2011. He explained that the plant was up and running efficiently the major part of the waste stream that was combustible was processed through the plant. He explained that there was no longer big build up of garbage at the facility anymore thus there was no need to make space by trucking the garbage up to the landfill to burn. 3004. The Member for the Third District asked if the old incinerator was still working. The Manager explained that it was very dilapidated and is need of an overhaul of the upper and lower chamber; that unit was about 18 years old.

!"#$%)'#%&'%"#$%

3005. The Member for the Third District asked what sort of waste was not incinerated. The Manager explained that bulky non-combustible items were not incinerated. 3006. The Member for the Third District asked what was done with those items. The Manager explained that the company that was hired to process the derelict vehicles also process most of the metal bulky waste like washing machines, fridges, and stoves. 3007. The Member for the Third District what was done with the tree trunks. The Manager explained that it depended on the size of the tree trunks; if they were over a certain diameter then they could pass through the plant, the bigger ones would go straight to the dump site. 3008. The Member for the Third District asked about any plans to relocate the derelict vehicles dump site. The Manager indicated that he was not aware of any plans to relocate the site and deferred to the Permanent Secretary for clarification. The

PSMHSD explained that there was a portion of property in Sea Cows Bay that was leased by the government for that purpose and an additional portion of land was leased by the contractor. She further indicated that the Ministry had not received any notice from the landowner to vacate the premises. 3009. The Member for the Third District asked if the PSMHSD actually had site of the lease for the contractor for this additional portion of land. The F&PO explained that the ministry did not know if there was an official lease between the contractor and the land owner, but they knew that the land owner made and official complaint to the ministry because there was some disagreement between the owner and contractor on a verbal arrangement that they had and the contractor was not living up to his side of the agreement. 3010. The Member for the Third District stated that it sounded as if the government contractor was placing materials on the landowners property without compensation and they were going to government to seek redress.
!"#$%)')%&'%"#$%

3011. The PSMHSD explained that to their knowledge the activity was currently restricted to the portion of property that was being leased by the government. She further explained that she could not speak specifically to the relocation of the property; but that the ministry was looking at the entire processing of bulky waste and other recyclables and that they had hoped to have a comprehensive solution including the siting of those operations. 3012. The Member for the Third District asked about the vacancies in the department. The Manager indicated that they had Sanitation Officers vacant, and under the permanent and pensionable establishment they had a few Solid Waste Officers. 3013. The Member for the Third District asked what the duties of the Sanitation Officer were. The Manger stated that they were to do street cleaning and road side cutting. 3014. The Member for the Second District asked if they had an officer that visits Jost Van Dyke to see about the garbage situation and derelict vehicles. The Manager explained that they do have officers that go over there but not as often as they would like to due to short staffing. He further stated that he was over there about two (2) weeks ago. 3015. The Member for the Second District stated that there were derelict vehicles and boats that the department needed to look at on Jost van Dyke so that they could follow the procedures of the law. He further requested that he be informed the next time the department travels to the island. The Manager agreed and stated that he would be

going to Jost Van Dyke in about two weeks. 3016. The Member for the Second District explained that last year he requested that signs would be placed around the bins so that people would be aware of the material that would not be acceptable for dumping and indicate the violation and penalty. The Manager explained that the problem was not with all bins, but that there was a problem with some bins and they had placed stickers on those bins. However, the stickers did not have the penalty placed on them.

!"#$%)'*%&'%"#$%

3017. The Member for the Second District explained that he would see people with garbage in their truck dumping blocks of concrete and left over gravel and a sign should be placed at the bins indicating the penalty for said dumping. He further stated that the sign should deter them from dumping. 3018. The Member for the Eighth District indicated that they had spent a lot of time in Trellis Bay, Parham Town and Greenland with clean up efforts but there was a problem with people still dumping wastes. He asked how often the department cleared those areas. The Manager indicated that the sanitation workers were on the road everyday but they had a small team with a small truck. He further indicated that there was a fixed penalty of $150 but if the matter went to court, the penalty could go up to $500.00. 3019. Territorial Member Archibald Christian explained that those fines would not deter people, and expressed that there was a need to get more signs and put the penalty in red to let people know that the penalty would have severe fines. 3020. The Member for the Second District explained that the Minister could change the fines in Cabinet y the following week once a paper was prepared for him to do so. The Manager indicated that once that was done then the penalties could be placed on the signs. He added that the litter wardens who were appointed last year they were complaining that they were being threatened and abused when they spoke to those persons whom they caught doing the illegal dumping. 3021. The Minister for Education and Culture agreed with the concerns made by members but noted that he thought the problem was not fines or money but that the problem was education. He indicated that there needed to be a very aggressive public

awareness campaign on garbage. The PSMHSD stated that the ministry realised that the public awareness and the fines needed to go hand in hand. She further explained that had a Waste Education Officer specifically for public awareness, they also has Public Service Announcements (PSA) they have ads, they had Bruce the Mongoose
!"#$%)'+%&'%"#$%

who goes into the schools. She further stated that the people had to realise that there was a real risk involved. 3022. The Minister for Education and Culture asked what was going to be done about that bin in Purcell as he thought it was a real eye sore. 3023. The Member for the Third District explained that there was a contractor hired to pick up the garbage in the sixth district and if that garbage was not being picked up then it was the contractors fault. The PSMHSD indicated that there should be a significant change in the 6th district in particular because the contractor was contracted to deal with bulky wastes while other districts had other arrangements. She further stated that a comprehensive overhaul of the waste management system was needed and that the ministry was committed to ensuring that this happened this year. 3024. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the name of the Solid Waste Department needed to be changed. The Manager agreed, and indicated that it could be renamed the department of waste management. 3025. Territorial Member Archibald Christian inquired if the department was responsible for derelict boats. The Manager stated that if the boat was abandoned on land then it would be the responsibility of the department. 3026. The Minister for Education and Culture inquired if the contractors were working out well. The Manager stated that they were working better now and stated that they had a lot less complaints from the public. He further indicated that the money allocated this year was not enough to cover the contracts. 3027. Territorial Member Archibald Christian asked if the department had an emergency response team. The Manager answered in the negative stating that the workers were not keen on working overtime as it took too long to receive their overtime pay.

!"#$%)'"%&'%"#$%

HEAD 480 Present:

SOLID WASTE

Mrs. Petrona Davies Mr. Anselm Myers Mr. Greg Massicot Ms. Natasha Julius Ms. Keisha Donovan Mr. Anthony McMaster

Permanent Secretary Manager Assistant Manager Human Resources Manager Finance Officer Finance and Planning Officer

3028. The Chairman welcomed all in attendance to the Standing Finance Committee and asked that they state their names for the record. 3029. The Member for the Third District stated that the incinerator area was plagued with smoke not too long ago, there were a lot of complaints, but he had not heard any complaints lately and asked the Manager to give a status report. 3030. The Manager stated that the new 100 ton unit which was purchased by government was commissioned in September 2011. He explained that the plant was up and running efficiently the major part of the waste stream that was combustible was processed through the plant. He explained that there was no longer big build up of garbage at the facility anymore thus there was no need to make space by trucking the garbage up to the landfill to burn. 3031. The Member for the Third District asked if the old incinerator was still working. The Manager explained that it was very dilapidated and is need of an overhaul of the upper and lower chamber; that unit was about 18 years old.

!"#$%)($%&'%"#$%

3032. The Member for the Third District asked what sort of waste was not incinerated. The Manager explained that bulky non-combustible items were not incinerated. 3033. The Member for the Third District asked what was done with those items. The Manager explained that the company that was hired to process the derelict vehicles also process most of the metal bulky waste like washing machines, fridges, and stoves. 3034. The Member for the Third District what was done with tree trunks. The Manager explained that it depended on the size of the tree trunks; if they were over a certain diameter then they could pass through the plant, the bigger ones would go straight to the dump site. 3035. The Member for the Third District asked about any plans to relocate the derelict vehicles dump site. The Manager indicated that he was not aware of any plans to relocate the site and deferred to the Permanent Secretary for clarification. The

PSMHSD explained that there was a portion of property in Sea Cows Bay that was leased by the government for that purpose and an additional portion of land was leased by the contractor. She further indicated that the Ministry had not received any notice from the landowner to vacate the premises. 3036. The Member for the Third District asked if the PSMHSD actually had site of the lease for the contractor for this additional portion of land. The F&PO explained that the ministry did not know if there was an official lease between the contractor and the land owner, but they knew that the land owner made and official complaint to the ministry because there was some disagreement between the owner and contractor on a verbal arrangement that they had and the contractor was not living up to his side of the agreement. 3037. The Member for the Third District stated that it sounded as if the government contractor was placing materials on the landowners property without compensation and they were going to government to seek redress.
!"#$%)(!%&'%"#$%

3038. The PSMHSD explained that to their knowledge the activity was currently restricted to the portion of property that was being leased by the government. She further explained that she could not speak specifically to the relocation of the property, but that the ministry was looking at the entire processing of bulky waste and other recyclables and that they had hoped to have a comprehensive solution including the siting of those operations. 3039. The Member for the Third District asked about the vacancies in the department. The Manager indicated that they had Sanitation Officers vacant, and under the permanent and pensionable establishment they had a few Solid Waste Officers. 3040. The Member for the Third District asked what the duties of the Sanitation Officer were. The Manger stated that they were to do street cleaning and road side cutting. 3041. The Member for the Second District asked if they had an officer that visits Jost Van Dyke to see about the garbage situation and derelict vehicles. The Manager explained that they do have officers that go over there but not as often as they would like to due to short staffing. He further stated that he was over there about two (2) weeks ago. 3042. The Member for the Second District stated that there were derelict vehicles and boats that the department needed to look at on Jost van Dyke so that they could follow the procedures of the law. He further requested that he be informed the next time the department travels to the island. The Manager agreed and stated that he would be

going to Jost Van Dyke in about two weeks. 3043. The Member for the Second District explained that last year he requested that signs would be placed around the bins so that people would be aware of the material that would not be acceptable for dumping and indicate the violation and penalty. The Manager explained that the problem was not with all bins, but that there was a problem with some bins and they had placed stickers on those bins. However, the stickers did not have the penalty placed on them.

!"#$%)(&%&'%"#$%

3044. The Member for the Second District explained that he would see people with garbage in their truck dumping blocks of concrete and left over gravel and a sign should be placed at the bins indicating the penalty for said dumping. He further stated that the sign should deter them from dumping. 3045. The Member for the Eighth District indicated that they had spent a lot of time in Trellis Bay, Parham Town and Greenland with clean up efforts but there was a problem with people still dumping wastes. He asked how often the department cleared those areas. The Manager indicated that the sanitation workers were on the road everyday but they had a small team with a small truck. He further indicated that there was a fixed penalty of $150 but if the matter went to court, the penalty could go up to $500.00. 3046. Territorial Member Archibald Christian explained that those fines would not deter people, and expressed that there was a need to get more signs and put the penalty in red to let people know that the penalty would have severe fines. 3047. The Member for the Second District explained that the Minister could change the fines in Cabinet the following week once a paper was prepared for him to do so. The Manager indicated that once that was done then the penalties could be placed on the signs. He added that the litter wardens who were appointed last year they were complaining that they were being threatened and abused when they spoke to those persons whom they caught doing the illegal dumping. 3048. The Minister for Education and Culture agreed with the concerns made by members but noted that he thought the problem was not fines or money but that the problem was education. He indicated that there needed to be a very aggressive public

awareness campaign on garbage. The PSMHSD stated that the Ministry realised that the public awareness and the fines needed to go hand in hand. She further explained that had a Waste Education Officer specifically for public awareness, they also has Public Service Announcements (PSA) they have ads, they had Bruce the Mongoose
!"#$%)('%&'%"#$%

who goes into the schools. She further stated that the people had to realise that there was a real risk involved. 3049. The Minister for Education and Culture asked what was going to be done about that bin in Purcell as he thought it was a real eye sore. 3050. The Member for the Third District explained that there was a contractor hired to pick up the garbage in the sixth district and if that garbage was not being picked up then it was the contractors fault. The PSMHSD indicated that there should be a significant change in the 6th district in particular because the contractor was contracted to deal with bulky wastes while other districts had other arrangements. She further stated that a comprehensive overhaul of the waste management system was needed and that the ministry was committed to ensuring that this happened this year. 3051. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the name of the Solid Waste Department needed to be changed. The Manager agreed, and indicated that it could be renamed the department of waste management. 3052. Territorial Member Archibald Christian enquired if the department was responsible for derelict boats. The Manager stated that if the boat was abandoned on land then it would be the responsibility of the department. 3053. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired if the contractors were working out well. The Manager stated that they were working better now and stated that they had a lot less complaints from the public. He further indicated that the money allocated this year was not enough to cover the contracts. 3054. Territorial Member Archibald Christian asked if the department had an emergency response team. The Manager answered in the negative stating that the workers were not keen on working overtime as it took too long to receive their overtime pay.

!"#$%)((%&'%"#$%

HEAD 500 Present:

SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT

Mrs. Petrona Davies

Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Health & Social Development (PSMHSD)

Annie Malone-Frett Carmen Rabsatt Natasha Julius Keisha Donovan Anthony McMaster

Chief Social Development Officer Administrative Officer Human Resources Manager Finance Officer Finance and Planning Officer

3055. The Chairman welcomed all in attendance to the Standing Finance Committee and asked that they state their names for the record. 3056. Territorial Member Archibald Christian enquired about Public Assistance Programme administered by the Social Development Department. The CSDO explained that the Public Assistance Programme was governed by the Public Assistance Committee (PAC) which consisted of nine (9) members. She further explained that applications for public assistance were received through the intake unit, an investigation would be undertaken, a report would be written and then reviewed by the PAC which meets once a month where all applications would be adjudicated. 3057. Territorial Member Archibald Christian asked if there was a standard form for persons to complete. The CSDO answered in the affirmative. 3058. Territorial Member Archibald Christian further enquired about the possibility of the application process for the Social Development Department conflicting with other applications received at other government agencies, namely the House of Assembly. The CSDO responded that she was never privy to the House of Assembly (HOA)
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application process but that she was aware of the process at the Ministry of Health and Social Development which was similar to the departments process. 3059. Territorial Member Archibald Christian enquired about the possibility of someone making an application for assistance at the HOA, it being processed through the HOA channels and eventually a check being received by that applicant, could that same person apply through the Ministry of Health and Social Development. The CSDO stated that that was the reality of what happened in the past. 3060. Territorial Member Archibald Christian asked if the process could be streamlined in order that there could be some form of checks and balances and proper accountability. The CSDO indicted that there was a draft recommendation for reformation of the Public Assistance Act since the current one was written in 1957. She further stated that a portion of that recommendation for reformation was asked to be done collaboratively which would give the department the authority to investigate the banks, Social Security or any other sphere of government to see if an applicant has accessed assistance from those other areas. 3061. Territorial Member Archibald Christian asked the CSDO if she would object to him calling the department to see if a given applicant had applied for assistance through her department while they would possibly be trying to access assistance through the HOA. The CSDO had no objection. 3062. Territorial Member Archibald Christian asked the CSDO if she would advocate for a one stop shop. She answered in the affirmative. 3063. The Member for the Sixth District asked the CSDO to explain about the foster care programme. The CSDO explained that the programme was a part of the Protective Services Programme geared towards those who were neglected or abused in one form or the other. She further stated that they had the Rainbow Childrens Home which they try to use as a last resort. She explained that placing children in an institution where there would be multiple caregivers would hinder the emotional bonding
!"#$%)()%&'%"#$%

process causing long term problems. She explained that they have a list of foster parents that they use as necessary. She further explained the process for choosing those foster parents by checking the suitability of the homes and then the child or children would be placed in the home. Thereafter, the Social Worker would visit the home and follow-up on the child or children. She further explained that every foster parent would be given a stipend at the end of each month which would range from $450 to $550. She noted that the children would also be given a clothing allowance. 3064. The Member for the Sixth District enquired as to the length of time a child would be in foster care. The CSDO explained a child could be in foster care until they reach the age of majority or they may exit foster care earlier if sufficient rehabilitation takes place in the home. However, the Social Development Department together with the courts must deem that the home is safe enough for the child to be returned back to that home. 3065. The Member for the Sixth District enquired if the children in the Rainbow Home had an option to be in foster care. The CSDO explained that some of the children have gone in foster care. She further explained that there were four (4) children in the Rainbow Home. The Member for the Sixth District enquired about the qualifications for a person to become a foster parent. The CSDO explained that a person or persons could be single or married, they must be in a position to take care of child without government assistance and they do not have to own their own home, they could be renting. The department also does a character reference and a criminal background check. 3066. The Member for the Sixth District asked about the power of authority the Social Development Department had when it came to a child being abused or neglected. The CSDO stated that they work together with the police; however, the police have the authority to remove a child from the home. 3067. The Member for the Fifth District asked if the Social Development Department monitored situations that the police may have had to get involved in. The CSDO
!"#$%)(*%&'%"#$%

explained that the once a situation gets recorded in their books then they monitor it for three (3) months. She further explained that if the police do not choose to get involved in a specific matter then the department would be crippled of how the legislation was written. 3068. Territorial Member Archibald Christian enquired about the job placement programme, BVI Services and where it was currently housed. The CSDO explained that BVI Services was housed across from the BVI Cable TV, however, the building was flooded out with water and sewerage and thus the persons who participated in the programme were home for a while. She further explained that they were presently housed at the senior citizen center in Johns Hole. 3069. Territorial Member Archibald Christian asked if the money requested in the budget was to pay those persons who worked for BVI Services. The CSDO explained that the money requested was not only to pay those persons, but to assist those who were in the community who may be challenged in one form or the other. The stipend for the 19 participants in the BVI Services Programme are included in the budget, however, they also had five (5) persons in the community who benefit from the job placement programme. She explained that the job placement worked by the

department taking specific persons, placing them in a work environment for three (3) months during which time they would be monitored. The process had worked well for the most part and the department works with the employer in between. New Horizons Yacht charters they have taken 2 has been a participant throughout the process. 3070. Territorial Member Archibald Christian asked if everyone received the same amount of money. The CSDO answered in the affirmative. 3071. The Member for the Sixth District enquired about the location of the temporary facility that would house the disabled. The CSDO stated that the BVI Services assists with facilitating that programme as well.
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3072. Territorial Member Archibald Christian enquired if there were persons hired to inspect the community centers to ensure proper maintenance of the centers. The CSDO explained that that process was handled through the Community Development Assistance programme where there were centers that had no manager. 3073. Territorial Member Archibald Christian explained that the West End Community Center had a number of shutters that required replacing and asked what the channel for replacing them would be. The CSDO indicated that all major repair requests would be processed through the ministry because the $114,000.00 allocated in the budget for nine (9) centers was grossly inadequate. 3074. Territorial Member Archibald Christian asked about the measures the Social Development Department was taking to decrease their high electricity bill. The CSDO explained that the bill reflected the electricity usage of all of their. 3075. Territorial Member Archibald Christian asked if they would consider using energy efficient bulbs. The CSDO explained that that had begun using the LED bulbs as the compact fluorescent bulbs were a bit more costly. 3076. The Member for the Sixth District asked if the money in the Public Assistance Grants vote was sufficient. The CSDO explained that they have a commitment of almost $40,000.00 per month in monthly grants alone, they have monthly public assistance grants distributed in cash through the designated relieving officers, they also have monthly food grants which would be given for a three (3) month period and they have grants which assist those person who were disabled and unable to work. 3077. The Member for the Third District asked what a relieving officer was. The CSDO explained that a relieving officer was someone chosen, under the legislation and approved by the PAC to collect money as is prepared by the Social Development, and goes through the district to distribute to persons on the list. 3078. The Member for the Third District asked for the names of the relieving the officers. The Administrative Officer listed the names as Oliver Cills for Sea Cows Bay, Sylvia !"#$%)("%&'%"#$%

Adams for Sea Cows Bay, Carmen Blyden for Jost Van Dyke, Cromwell Todman for Meyers and Brewers Bay, Eugenie Glasgow-Donovan for Carrot Bay, Vincent Wheatley for Virgin Gorda and Anegada. The CSDO stated that most relieving officers had been long standing. 3079. The Member for the Third District asked how often the list of relieving officers was reviewed. The CSDO explained that the list of relieving officers was presented at the last PAC meeting which was approximately one to two years ago. 3080. The Member for the Third District enquired if the programme extended to families who need assistant by giving them vouchers to purchase food. The CSDO explained that the Accounts section prepared monthly Purchase Orders and the clients were accompanied by a Social Development Officer to the supermarket where the client would shop. The amount given would range from $200 - $360. 3081. The Member for the Third District enquired about who the members of the committee were. The CSDO indicated that there was a new committee which met last week Wednesday and the members were Pastor Calvin Mills, Chairman, Paul Thomas, Keturah Crabbe, Pastor Greg George, Wisteria Donovan, Altesha Daniel-Dawson as the Clerk and Annie Malone-Frett as an ex-officio member. 3082. The Member for the Sixth District asked how the committee was chosen. The CSDO explained that persons must apply, then an investigation would be undertaken and then they would be approved for the programme. 3083. Territorial Member Archibald Christian enquired if there was an outreach centre. The CSDO said that there was not and the Public Assistance Ordinance did not five a mandate for such a centre. 3084. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked about the Home Care Programme. The CSDO explained that the programme was designed as one of the tiers to care for the elderly or disabled persons who were in need of care to try and keep them out of an institution for as long as possible. She further explained that the !"#$%)#$%&'%"#$%

homecare worker would be assigned to a family and they would go to the home and render care. There was also a facet of the programme where the department would give a client a home care grant which would range from $200 $500 a month. She further explained that in recent time they had been receiving requests from people who were severely ill and requested homecare assistance. In order to fulfill the need, the department had to give up two positions in order to hire a Nurse for those who required nursing care. 3085. The Premier asked why there would be a need for a nurse when there was a community nursing programme. The CSDO explained that the community nursing programme did not lend the department the availability that was required for their needs. 3086. The Member for the Fifth District asked how many nurses were hired by the Social Development Department. The CSDO explained that there was only one nurse hired under the Social Development Department but that they had 25 healthcare workers. 3087. The Member for the Eight District asked what was the level of involvement of locals in that area. The CSDO responded by indicating that there was one local homecare worker and the rest were non-nationals. She further indicated that there did not seem to be an interest in the area. 3088. The Member for the Fifth District asked if there was any training or beginners programme for the home care workers. The CSDO indicated that the home care worker would have to go through the Red Cross basic training in the first instance; thereafter there would refresher training courses with the geriatric aide. 3089. The Member for the Fifth District commended the Social Development Department highly and thanked them for their presentation. 3090. The Chairman thanked the panel for appearing before the SFC and addressing the concerns raised by the Members.
!"#$%)#!%&'%"#$%

HEAD 510 Present:

MINISTRY OF COMMUNICATIONS AND WORKS

Mrs. Arlene Smith-Thompson Mrs. Perline Scatliffe-Leonard Mrs. Margaret Jones-Greene Ms. Diane Todman

Permanent Secretary/MCW Human Resources Department MCW Finance and Planning Officer MCW Finance Officer MCW

3091. The Chairman welcomed the PSMCW and her team to SF and asked that they state their names and positions for the record to which they complied. 3092. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian made reference to Subhead 61220Electricity and asked what locations the electricity bill was for. The PSMCW stated that the electricity bill is for the Electrical Inspection Unit that is located in the RJH building. 3093. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked how many persons are employed in the Unit. The PSMCW stated that there are four (4) persons employed in the Unit. 3094. The Member for the Second District asked how the electricity is including generator maintained. The PSMCW stated that it is maintained through facilities. 3095. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if the unit has its own meter. The PSMCW stated that further clarification, the Ministry was actually paying for monthly bills for the entire floor; but over the last several years they also share the area with several Units from the Ministry of Health. 3096. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that the Unit from the Ministry of Health should pay a portion of the bill. He also asked how the space is metered. The PSMCW stated that, before Health occupied the space it was occupied by the
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Telecommunications Regulatory Commission, as well as the Electrical Unit and they are both under the MCW. When those agencies left Health occupied the space. 3097. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that this is not a fair reflection of what the Electrical Unit consumes and some of the charges should be forwarded to the MHSC. 3098. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked the PSMCW to give an overview of the Ministrys vision, goals and objectives. 3099. The PSMCW recited the Mission and Vision of the MCW and further stated that they are embarking upon national sewerage project that began last year in the eastern end of the island. There are a number of sewer connections in that area and there are additional works that is ongoing. The project has shifted focus on the Road Town area where they will commence work and pipe replacement project. They want to feature a pedestrian friendly capital with a refreshing and pleasant ambiance and enjoy a public water supply system where water is available at least 90% of the time. They are aware that there is more work to be done in that area and there is a plant in the Baughers Bay area that they are responsible for operating. However, they are

experiencing a number of challenges and will get into that in more details when Water and Sewerage comes before the Committee. They also want to enjoy electrical supply powered by fossil fuel and proven reliable energy sources; enjoy a public road network that facilitates the safe and effective flow of traffic through out the Territory. In addition, they are making plans to address the entire road network, afford the residents and visitors an ample choice of service providers for affordable, efficient and reliable telecommunication services. Their aim is to work closely with TRC for 2012. They realised that there are vexing issues with the cable tv system and want s to address those areas. They want to ensure the availability of affordable public transportation on each of the Territorys four main islands. Last year they did a lot of work in that area and will continue to do so. Their aim is also to have a safe and convenient passenger and cargo port facilities on the four main islands in the
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Territory. The BVI Ports Authority is under the MCW and they recognised what they have to do in terms of upgrading the passenger and port of entries and work have begun as she speaks. They also want to ensure all newly buildings in the Territory meet the required international electrical, plumbing and structural standards. Some of the major accomplishments for 2011 include: installation of traffic lights at the Wickhams Cay II intersection, completion of phases I & II of the national sewerage programme, but there is still a lot of work there to be done in terms of replacing a lot of parts that are worn in addition to other issues. Completion of Phase I of the widening of the road in the Methodist Manse area where work is still ongoing, completion of roads and drainage solutions at Hannahs Estate, completion of the alternate road in Virgin Gorda, completion of road restoration at Great Mountain, completion of the storeroom extension at the W&SD. 3100. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked about plans for the House of Assembly building. The PSMCW stated that they are trying to strengthen the

Management team by bringing on someone with the expertise who can look at all infrastructural issues. The mandate would also be to look at Government structures that are aging to ensure the health and safety of the occupants of the buildings. It is something that they take seriously. 3101. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked for an update on Bi Water. The PSMCW stated that in Paraquita Bay area Bi Water has done quite a bit of work. Their contract includes building a reverse osmosis plant and been contracted to replace the storage tank at Sabbath Hill reservoir and they are on their way to completing the reverse osmosis plant. There is a new reservoir that is in place at the Sabbath Hill area and they are working on the connections. There is a major plan to have a seawater intake project going in the Paraquita Bay area. They are also looking at the Burt Point area to install a sewerage treatment plant in that area and she is aware that there might be some issues with land. At the moment that is the focus of BiWater.

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3102. The Member for the Eighth District enquired about the status of the sewerage treatment plant in East End. The PSMCW stated that it is part of their contract to do so; but there might be some issues with land that needs to be resolved. At the moment is it not a priority for Bi Water since the efforts are being concentrated on the seawater intake part of the project. 3103. The Member for the Eighth District asked if Bi Water sets the priorities. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that there is a stipulation in their contract that requires them to deal with water issues first and then waste water issues. 3104. The Member for the Second District asked how many Deputy Secretaries are in the MC&W and if the positions are filled. The PSMCW answered that there are two Deputy Secretary positions within the MC&W. Only one position is filled, the other is vacant since one Officer retired in December. 3105. The Member for the Second District asked what position is Dr. Drexel Glasgow being held against. The PSMCW stated that Dr. Drexel Glasgow is still the Ag. Director of PWD but is on reassignment to the Ministry. 3106. The Member for the Second District asked if an Officer could be transferred from an acting post, especially when there is a current Director of PWD. The PSMCW stated that according to GO 2.1a they can transfer any officer and received authorisation from HRD on Dr. Glasgows reassignment. The Member for the Second District stated that he thought that the Officer would have been transferred from his substantive post, which is Deputy Director, PWD. The HRMMCW stated that in regards to all positions within the public service, the PS has the authority to transfer anyone within the Ministry and Departments via General Orders 2.7(1)(a). The PSMCW stated that there is only one acting Director of PWD. 3107. Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian enquired about the post that Mr. Jeffrey Skelton holds. The PSMCW stated that Mr. Jeffrey Skelton is currently appointed on a Consultancy basis to assist the PWD.
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3108. The Member for the Second District referred to Subhead 62400 Contributions to Overseas Organizations and asked why they are still making contributions to ASSI. The PSMCW answered that they still have a relationship with ASSI. 3109. The Member for the Second District stated that if their role with the VI has been downgraded why then the large amount was allocated in the budget. The PSMCW stated that ASSI does not operate a physical office in the Territory but still carryout a regulatory role. 3110. The Member for the Second District asked if the Officer reports to ASSI. The PSMCW stated that that officer is on assignment within the MCW; but they still consult with him on Civil Aviation matters from time to time. 3111. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if this is an annual fee paid to ASSI. The PSMCW answered yes. 3112. The FS stated that the role of ASSI is to regulate the airports in the VI, the same role that the Civil Aviation previously carried out. 3113. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that it is a United Kingdom requirement that ASSI continue in the same role. The PSMCW stated that the

Government is in the process of negotiating another MoU with ASSI and the BVI contributions is expected to be in the region 231,000 pounds so the amount outlined may be a little lower. 3114. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if ASSI is a private UK company. The PSMCW stated that the company is based in the UK. 3115. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if ASSI was recommended by the UK Government. He asked why the BVI cant be offered a break since both the UK and the BVI are experiencing financial difficulties. 3116. The FS stated that the UK government is paying some of the cost for the regulation by ASSI and the BVI is paying for a portion. !"#$%)#)%&'%"#$%

3117. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what percentage of the amount is the BVIs portion. The FS answered that he will get the amount for the Member. 3118. The Premier stated that the BVI is responsible for about 20% of the cost. 3119. The Member for the Fifth District stated that the amount outlined in the proposed budget reflects that the BVI is paying in dollars and asked if the Government is charged in pounds. 3120. The PSMCW stated that it is a new MoU, the previous one was in dollars and this one has not be effected, in terms of payments to ASSI, as yet but the equivalent would be worked out. 3121. Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian asked if the airport is under the MC&W. The PSMCW answered yes. 3122. Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian asked if the payment is being made from the MC&W. The PSMC&W answered yes. The MC&W still has the subject of Civil Aviation., which is the regulatory side. 3123. The Member for the Second District refereed to Subhead 64750- Expenses of Boards and Committees and asked if he could have a copy of the Taxi Cab Regulation. The PSMCW stated that she could provide the Members with a copy of the Taxi Cab Regulations. 3124. The Member for the Second District also asked if the taxi association is functioning well with the new regulations. 3125. The PSMCW stated that they are moving in that direction with the establishment of the Taxi and Livery Commission. The regulations call for a body of Commissioners to be in place and they were able to accomplish that last year. There are a number of Commissioners that has been appointed who are tasked with enforcing the Taxi and Livery Regulations. In order for the Commissioners for the work to be more effective they will require a full Commission that will include the Secretariat to effectively !"#$%)#*%&'%"#$%

operate. They are lacking the Secretariat that would consist of a Director, Inspector and Road Wardens. The regulations spell out what is required in order for the Taxi and Livery Commission to function. The PSMCW further stated that they would like to make a few amendments to the Subhead 62750 - Expenses of Boards and Committees augmented by $85,000, which would be taken from Subhead 62710 Consultancy. These funds would allow them to appoint a Director and an Inspector. 3126. The Member for the Second District asked if the Regulations would be sent to the Members tomorrow (10th February 2012). The PSMCW answered yes. 3127. The Member for the Second District asked if any complaints were received from the public in relation to the services offered from Cable TV, Cable TV and LIME. The PSMCW answered that they are not satisfied with the service presently provided from Cable TV. They have met with the Officials on these issues and may have to go the route of Legislations that would allow them to access the programming that is needed within the Territory. They have charged Cable TV to immediately improve their service because they have received a number of complaints in terms of the poor service. They have been meeting with TRC in terms of their communications needs. They have also demanded quality services from the companies. 3128. The Member for the Second District referred to Subhead 62700 Street Lighting and asked if the escalating cost of electricity is the reason why there are so many unreplaced light bulbs in the Territory. He further asked when the last time an inventory of street lights was done was. The PSMCW stated that funding listed under the subhead is not accurate reflection of how much is actually consumed. It is a matter that must be taken seriously and an inventory must be done on a regular basis and as far as she understands one has not been done in quite sometime. 3129. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if the reduction in consumption is based on the lights that are not working. The PSMCW stated that it is accurate to say it is a reduction. She reminded the Members that they are dealing with a 7%
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reduction decrease which is reflected in the 2012 estimates.

3130. The Member for the Second District stated that is a need for him to have a drive through with someone from the Ministry to check broken light bulbs and have them replaced. 3131. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that there is a pilot programme where solar lights are being placed at West End. He asked if that is something that is being considered when placing lights in other areas. The PSMCW answered yes it is an initiative that should be Territory wide. They have met with the BVI Electricity Board and will do follow-up because they realised the importance of using emergency efficient lights. 3132. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that he asked the BVI Electricity Board to entertain, as much as possible, any request to replace the street lights to LED lights. He further stated that the idea is to replace about 500 over a period of time so that the electricity consumption would be reduced. The BVI Electricity Board is entertaining proposals along those lines. 3133. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if the BVIEC Ordinance allow for renewal energy to enter into the Territory. 3134. The PSMCW stated that the subject of renewable energy is open for discussions and have communicated the desire of the Government; therefore the Ordinance will be amended. 3135. The Minster for Health and Social Development stated that the Solar lights use practically no electricity. However, if BVI is hit by a hurricane it would be difficult to replace them immediately. 3136. The Minster for Health and Social Development asked what lands are we giving to BiWater and what are they using it for. PSMCW stated that the land would be used for a treatment plant for the Bi Water project.

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3137. Minster for Health and Social Development asked if Bi Water would be using the land to raise funds for the project. PSMCW answered not that she is aware. 3138. Minster for Health and Social Development asked about the future of the Baughers Bay plant. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that the committed should wait until Water and Sewerage comes before them to ask questions about the water plants. 3139. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked about the bus stops that were being erected throughout the Territory. The PSMCW stated that the Deputy Secretary who retired was responsible for carrying out that initiative. They are aware that a lot has to be done however, the new Minister has not been fully appraised of the bus stop initiative. Once he is appraised he will determine if the initiative should go forward. 3140. The Member for the Second District asked if the Ministry is operating with a full staff complement. The PSMCW stated that they are trying their best to perform with the current staff complement that they have. It is the largest Ministry in the service and they are trying as an initiative in 2012 to improve the staff especially at the senior level. There is one particular post that must be created and they submitted a request to HR a Chief of Infrastructural Planning Research and Development. They see it as a very critical position, the position was approved at Grade 15 and they would like it to be approved at Grade 17. The funds have been identified by utilising positions that were dormant for sometime; they are not asking for new monies, they are asking for the post to be placed at Grade 17. 3141. Minster for Health and Social Development stated that there are a number of vacant posts and asked if the Ministry is not getting production from the current staff complement and whether this is the reason for additional staff. 3142. The PSMCW stated that they are getting production the staff complement is mostly administrative. There is only one technical person and that is the Deputy Secretary. She further stated that the person who holds the post of Chief of Infrastructural
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Planning Research and Development would be the Chief Advisor to Government on all matters relating to infrastructure, research, planning, policy and development; prepare the Ministrys investment programme including a list of priorities; conduct technical and feasibility studies; assess potential risk on infrastructure project; review and prepare terms of references. The post holder would have a broader scope 3143. Minster for Health and Social Development asked where the funds would be transferred to. 3144. The Minister for Communications and Works asked if the positions could be included in the 2012 budget estimates and the funding would be determined at a later date. 3145. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian thanked the members from the MCW for their presentation and realised that there are many challenges for the Ministry and wished them all the best. 3146. The Chairman thanked the PSMCW and her team for attending the SFC deliberations and addressing the concerns raised by the Members.

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HEAD 520 Present:

FACILITIES MANAGEMENT UNIT

Mrs. Arlene Smith-Thompson Mr. Ariel Donovan Mrs. Perline Scatliffe-Leonard Mrs. Margaret Jones-Greene Ms. Diane Todman Ms. Suaeco Harrigan

Permanent Secretary/MCW Facilities Manager Human Resources Department MCW Finance and Planning Officer MCW Finance Officer MCW Ag. Accounts Officer FMU

3147. The Chairman welcomed the facilities Manager and his team to SFC and asked that they state their names and positions for the record to which they complied. 3148. The FM stated that the FMU is responsible for the upkeep of the Central Administration Complex, the general cleaning and security of the b0uilding. In

carrying out the duties they have encountered problems with the building such as poor air quality, leaky roof that has been leaking for quite sometime. The Ministry of Communications and Works has embarked on remedial works in repairing the roof which is incomplete, the fire alarm system for the building is outdated and is in need of urgent replacement. There has also been some major accomplishments that

includes implementing a comprehensive maintenance programme, continue to maintain the east and west parking lot by resurfacing from time to time, quarterly sanitization programme where all air handlers are cleaned, fogged air ducts and panels, regular maintenance to the standby generator, conduct regular fire drills in collaboration with the Fire Department and the Disaster Management Department, carryout maintenance to the elevator, Security staff were trained in March 2011, upgraded the access control system in the Premiers Office and Ministers garage.
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There are some outstanding issues that they would like to embark on once the funds become available. These includes: remedial work to ensure that the fixing of the roof is completed, resurfacing of the parking lot to ensure that it is completely paved and marked out, an elevator for the west wing and upgrading the elevator on the east wing since parts are becoming difficult to obtain. 3149. The Minister for Health and Social Development made a recommendation for the FM to be the Accounting Officer for his Unit. The PSMCW stated that she seconds the motion since she feels the FM is very capable of carrying out the duties associated with being an Accounting Officer. 3150. Minister for Health and Social Development stated that it would not go into effect until the passing of the 2012 budget. The PSMCW referred to the issue of the leaking roof of CAB and stated that there were a number of challenges to move the project forward and trying to fix the roof. The Ministry continues to see the project as a priority and they are moving to have the roof fully replaced. 3151. The Minister for Communications and Works asked if the PSMCW could give more information on how the Ministry is addressing the issues with the mould. The

PSMCW stated that to show their commitment to the roof replacement project, they saw it fit to bring the Project Support Services Unit that is under the Ministry of Finance fully on board so that they could address the project in a three phase approach. The first phase would be to complete the roof, the second phase would be to address the level of mould and the third phase would involve remedial works that include gutting the ceiling and sanitise the building. 3152. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that 37% of the budget covers the cost of electricity and asked what has happened between 2010 and 2012 that resulted in the cost increasing from $480,000 to $900,800. He further asked if the Unit is looking alternative bulbs and energy efficient ways to bring the electricity cost down.

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3153. The FM stated that the cost for electricity that is reflected in the estimate was $480,000 in 2010; however, during that time they were under budgeted and spent $800,000. The cost of electricity has always been around $900,000.00 they have looked at a number of initiatives in terms of decreasing the cost of electricity. Persons came and studied the building made presentation to the Unit and made recommendations in terms of reducing the cost. They have embarked on installing LED lights in the Ministry of Communications and Works and other areas and they are currently going through a phase to determine how effective it would be. The persons who installed the air condition (TRANE) will be looking at possible replacement units. 3154. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if it is hopeful to see a reduction in electrical bill for 2012. The FM stated that he hopes so but they are still investigating and this may call for additional funds. 3155. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that he thinks the FM is off to a good start by replacing the bulbs in the MC&W. He further stated that he would remain hopeful. 3156. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that the Ministry of Communication Works has included plans in their remedial work to retrofit all the lights in the building to more energy efficient bulbs. 3157. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated the parking lots have been the same since the building of the facility and asked if the parking lot project could be done in phases. The FM stated that he forwarded information on the matter to the Ministry and they are waiting on the Ministrys response on the way forward. 3158. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that the reason why the Ministry hasnt decided whether they want to pave the parking lots is due to the overall development plan for the building. Accordingly, they will have to keep the parking lots as smooth as possible until then.
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3159. The Member for the Second District stated that the notes should reflect whether the Units staff is part-time, temporary or full time employees. He asked how many of the employees are part-time. The FM answered that there are twenty two (22)

cleaners, two of whom are full time and twenty (20) part-time cleaners. 3160. The Member for the Second District stated that the notes should reflect the break down of cleaning staff. 3161. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the notes should be amended to reflect the break down in staff. 3162. The Member for the Eighth District stated congratulations to the FM on the responsibility as Accounting Officer. 3163. The Chairman thanked the panel for addressing the concerns and questions posed by the Members of the SFC.

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HEAD 530 Present:

CIVIL AVIATION

Mr. Gary Penn

Deputy Secretary, Ministry of Communications and Works (DSCW)

Mr. Andrew St. Hilaire Mrs. Margaret Jones-Greene

Acting Director, Civil Aviation (AgDCA) Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Communications Works (FPOCW)

3164. The Chairman welcomed the Members to the 2012 SFC meeting. She also asked if there was a presentation the panel would like to make. 3165. The AgDCA read from his prepared statement highlighting the years 2006 to present. The Department of Civil Aviation (DCA) is a regulatory entity, empowered by designations from the Governor. This enables the Department to regulate all aviation activity in the Territory, including, but not limiting, the commercial activity that the BVI Airports Authority Limited, which is the operational aviation entity, is enacted to carry out with respect to commercial airports, heliports, helipads, and sea plan ramps and docks. 3166. The AgDCA stated that, prior to the Airports Act of 2003 and subsequent enactment of the BVI Airports Authority, all aviation regulations and operations were carried out by the DCA in existence since 1967. With the split in functions, regulatory remaining with the DCA and operational to the Authority, Air Safety Support International (ASSI) was on hand from 2006 to provide supporting services to the DCA. Consequently, ASSI was designated by the Governor to regulate. 3167. The AgDCA further informed that, in 2005, an action plan for the way forward on redesignating responsibilities to the DCA was drawn up. Considerable progress was made towards the return of all designations. !"#$%)))%&'%"#$% The BVI Airports Authority was

incorporated in 2005, and commenced operations that same year. He added that, in 2008, ASSI was engaged via a MoU for a period of two years at the cost of $644,000 per annum. That assignment relocated ASSIs Caribbean office from Antigua to the Virgin Islands. The sole aircraft on the aircraft register at that time, the Police Airplane (VPBVI - the tail number) was deregistered and registered as VPLAW because the registration was erroneous. The aircraft has been out of service for the entire period the report. Today there are a total of three aircrafts on the register and the scores not on the register due to the lack of suitable administration. 3168. In 2011, the Mortgaging of Aircraft and Aircrafts Engines Act was passed, which paved the way for better security of the VI Aircraft Register, as oftentimes the aircraft is not owned but mortgaged as well as some aircraft engines are worth more than the aircraft. Since then, the enabling regulations for the Act was drafted with the next step being vetted by the Attorney General Chambers, and finally to Gazette. Once the last two steps are completed, the full VI Aircraft Register will be ready to begin activity in earnest. However, the key here is that there needs to be an entity to administer, control, and manage all three registers. On the ground, regulatory

services are needed continuously to ensure the Territory can retain Category I safety status. However, ASSI relocated to the United Kingdom in June 2010. 3169. The staff complement of 13 officers, shown at Head 530 represented the core staff needed to mobilise the DCA and progressively take over the responsibilities being carried out by ASSI. The revenue stream to come from the Departments operation could be primarily from operating the register initially and from departmental services that would evolve. 3170. Madam Chairperson, I wish to emphasise here that many of the Territorys international clients are desirous of one-stop shopping: to register the company, its ships, and its aircrafts or helicopters within one jurisdiction. The Chairman thanked the AgDCA for his detailed presentation.

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3171. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian C. asked the AgDCA to confirm that the public wanted to register ships at the Aircraft Registry. The AgDCA noted that many of the Territorys international clients are desirous of one-stop shopping when registering their companies as well their mega yachts that have helipads and private jets. When personnel from the Shipping Registry and Financial Services Commission travel abroad to market the BVI as a financial jurisdiction, clients refuse to register in the BVI due to the fact that they cannot register all three entities that they own, in one jurisdiction. 3172. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if this was practiced elsewhere. The AgDCA stated that it was. He also noted that an e-mail was received from a trust company stating that the territory had lost business that may have gone to the Cayman Islands. The trust company enquired about the timing of the availability of the mortgaging of aircraft. 3173. The Member for the Third District asked if the MCW had the regulations for the registry of mortgage of aircrafts and aircrafts engines. The AgDCA replied that the MCW has the draft of the regulation. The next step is for the regulation to be vetted by AGC and then gazetted. 3174. The Member for the Third District wanted to know if the MCW had the vetted regulations for Cabinet. The AgDCA replied that the MCW had the draft version of the regulation which requires vetting by AGC. 3175. The Member for the Third District asked when the regulations were going to AGC. The AgDCA replied that he did not know the answer. 3176. The Chairman thanked the panel for their presentation and for answering the questions raised by the Members. 3177. The Premier reported that the Minister for Communications and Works has introduced an apprenticeship programme. An amendment for the MCWs Head 510
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will be required to include a new Subhead and the monies to fund it will be taken from: a) b) c) d) e) Head 510 Subhead 62100 Head 510 Subhead 62770 Head 520 Subhead 61420 Head 540 Subhead 60510 Head 550 Subhead 62965 Recruitment Cost - $ 2,000 Work Development Expense - $ 2,402 Upkeep of Grounds - $ 9,600 Wages - $ 20,000 Operation and Maintenance of Water and Sewerage System - $ 11,165 f) Head 550 Subhead 62970 Maintenance Sewerage System Cane Garden Bay $ 10,000 g) h) Head 550 Subhead 62980 Head 570 Subhead 61425 Unaccounted for Water - $ 7,000 Maintenance of Other Public Structures and Facilities - $ 60,000 i) Head 580 Subhead 62620 Telecommunication Expenses - $ 1,000 The initiative was begun by

3178. Reallocation total to create new account $123,167.00.

the Minister for Education and Culture who identified a number of young people who were out of work and after the workshop that was conducted at the Multi-Sports Complex. It was determined that having an apprenticeship programme will help employ them for some time and also give them the skills to help to secure their future employment. 3179. The Member for the Third District asked the Premier to divulge any details of the programme he had. 3180. The Premier stated that several of the young people will be attached to various Departments and Units of the MCW for a determined period of time. 3181. The Member for the Third District asked how long the periods will last. The Premier stated an initial three months.

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3182. The Member for the Third District asked if those hired will be paid full time. The Premier replied yes and added that it will come from the new head created. 3183. The Member for the Third District asked if it is 50 persons. The Premier replied that he believes it will be 50. 3184. The Member for the Third District asked if candidates were solicited or if they were coming from the list. The Premier stated the Minister for Education and Culture held a Territory-wide drive looking at young people who were un-employed. It is from this list of people the candidates were selected from. Presumably, the candidates are from all the Districts in the Territory. 3185. The Premier asked The Member for the Third District if he sent young people to register. The Member for the Third District replied: no, not one, because he was not asked. 3186. The Member for the Second District asked if the registration of the people was at the Department of Labour or the Ministry of Education. The Premier stated it was the Ministry of Education but the list will be sent to Department of Labour. He also stated that this initiative was specifically for young people. The Minister for Labour is going in a different direction that is parallel to this initiative. 3187. The Chairman thanked the panel for attending the SFC meetings.

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HEAD 540 Present:

FIRE SERVICES

Mrs. Arlene Smith-Thompson Mr. William Penn Mrs. Margret Jones-Greene Ms. Joann Barzey Ms. Dian Todman

Acting Permanent Secretary, MC&W (AgPSCW) Deputy Chief Fire Officer, Fire Services (DCFO) Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of C&W Accounts Officer, Fire Services Accounts Officer, MC&W

3188. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District welcomed the panel representing the Fire Services and asked that they state their names and positions for the record to which they complied. 3189. The Deputy Chief Fire Officer (DCFO) gave an overview of the Virgin Islands Fire and Rescue Services Department (VIFRS) firstly in the area of performance. He stated that in 2011 the VIFRS responded to five hundred and seventy-nine (579) emergency calls of which, sixty (60) were fire related and one hundred and sixty-one (161) were medically related. The DCFO further informed that presently for 2012 there were sixty-eight (68) emergency calls of which, eleven (11) were fire related and twenty-eight (28) were medically related. 3190. Regarding performance, the DCFO informed the Committee that all National emergency calls were managed at the VIFRS and as such; the system being used was outdated and therefore, there was a need for a new National Call-handling Centre which would cost under $1,000,000.00 (one million dollars). He added that a

proposal for such was sent to the Ministry of Communications and Works. He also noted that one of the goals of the department was to have medical emergency

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response from six (6) strategic locations across the Territory as part of the National Emergency Management System (EMS). 3191. Regarding the Public Education Programme, the DCFO also informed that there were plans to have national training for all Government offices and Statutory Boards to ensure that all Government employees were educated on the proper use of fire extinguishers. 3192. The DCFO further informed that regarding the National Maritime Safety Regulations, the department was providing H. Lavity Stoutt Community College (HLSCC) with support in a three-day workshop for the Standard Training Certification for Watch Keepers (STCWK). He also added that all marine operators had to be certified to this basic standard. 3193. The DCFO also informed that regarding human resources, there were sixty-two (62) staff members at the FRS, with fifty-seven (57) uniformed officers and the remaining 20% to 25% were suffering from various medical conditions. Also on staff were eleven (11) Auxiliary Officers, five (5) administrative staff and three (3) cleaners. The DCFO also informed that there was a need for someone to be responsible for the emergency response services as there were seven supervisors reporting to three different persons in the department. Regarding promotions, the DCFO informed that five proposals were put forward to the Department of Human Resources (DeHR) for promotions and of the five, two were recommended and one was thus far confirmed. 3194. Regarding public safety, the DCFO informed that there was a rescue tender (the tender) which was a fire apparatus that carried hazardous material equipment and had a life-span of ten years but was in service for approximately twelve years. He also informed that the under carriage and the chassis was recently repaired for four thousand dollars ($4,000.00) and therefore, needed replacing. The DCFO informed that the cost for replacing the tender was one hundred and sixty-seven thousand dollars ($167,000.00). Additionally, there was also a need for a new tender in
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Anegada as it was in service there for fourteen years and no longer able to operate to

standard and would cost two hundred and ninety five thousand dollars ($295,000.00) to replace. Sub Head 61210 Telephone/Telexes/Faxes and Sub Head 61220 - Electricity 3195. The DCFO advised that approximately 80% of the money allotted in Sub Head 61210 for 2012 would be used to pay outstanding bills from 2011 and the situation was the same for money allocated in Sub Head 61220. He explained that the reason for this was the Accounts Officer resigned in 2011 to attend college and so Purchase Orders for those bills could not be processed without an accounting officer. 3196. With relation to accomplishments for 2011, the DCFO informed that twenty (20) officers received Emergency Management Technician (EMT) training and eighteen (18) of them passed at local level and nine (9) were certified at the United States National Registry level. He further noted that prior to the training, three (3) Fire Officers were already certified EMTs. 3197. The DCFO advised that ten (10) planning applications were processed whereby there was a recommendation for safety within those structures which were inspected. He also informed that eleven (11) premises were also inspected for liquor licence and twenty-three (23) fire extinguisher training sessions were conducted in the private sector in 2011. Eighteen (18) evacuation drills were also conducted in 2011, seven (7) public sector communication programmes were also conducted, and thirteen (13) standbys for fireworks displays and bonfires were carried out in 2011. 3198. The DCFO also noted that the goals for the department for 2012 was to ensure the physical development of the Fire Officers, implementation of a defensive driving policy which would help to minimise the risk to the pedestrians and motorists when the fire apparatuses were being utilised. Also for 2012, was the possible amendment of the Fire Service Act; introduction of a Fire Code to ensure safety in public buildings; and straw burning control to provide safety to the public and persons with breathing problems. Additionally, issuance of Occupancy Certificates before a
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building could be occupied to ensure safety, would also help to generate money as

well as a ticketing system for persons who obstructed fire hydrants or the entrance to a fire station. The DCFO further stated that an introduction of a fee for fire

prevention reports and suppression training for both the public and private sectors would also be drafted. He further noted that all proposals for draft policies were going to be sent to the Ministry of Communications and Works (MCW) for consideration. 3199. The Member for the Second District asked about the DCFO being Deputy and not being confirmed as Chief Fire Officer (CFO). The Acting Permanent Secretary for the Ministry of Communications and Works (AgPSCW) informed that applications received for the post were presently being processed and they were awaiting a response from a Department of Human Resources (DeHR). 3200. The Member for the Second District wanted to know how long the department was without a CFO. The AgPSCW informed that Mr. Penn had acted as CFO from 1st August 2011 to 31st October 2011. 3201. The Member for the Second District asked why the acting appointment was not renewed. The AgPSCW advised that she had recommended to DeHR to have the acting appointment renewed until a candidate was selected to fill the position but was still awaiting confirmation. 3202. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District enquired if the DCFO had acted as CFO prior. The AgPSCW noted that he had acted in the post before but once the appointment expired he was reverted to his former post. 3203. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if one of the applicants was the DCFO. The AgPSCW confirmed that he was. 3204. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if one of the applicants were from overseas. The AgPSCW informed that one of the applicants was from overseas but the individual did not meet all the requirements for the position.
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3205. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian also asked if all the other applicants were from within the VIFRS. The AgPSCW informed that they were not. The Territorial Member expressed his hope that the DCFO would be selected for the job as he had been doing it very well for a long time. 3206. The Member for the First District commented that it would have been a mockery if the system had not recognised the many years of service the DCFO had given, and not appoint him as CFO. The Member enquired if the DCFOs application had met the requirements. The AgPSCW informed that it had indeed met the requirements. 3207. The Member for the First District also enquired whether the DCFOs application ranked in the top two. The AgPSCW informed that there were only three applicants and that their names were not submitted in any particular order. 3208. The Member for the First District expressed his concern that the Ministry of Communications and Works had not highlighted the strengths of the DCFO. The AgPSCW advised that all the strengths for each applicant were highlighted. 3209. The Member for the First District appealed to the Minister for Communications and Works and the Premier that when they were consulted by the Public Service Commission (PSC), they could make a recommendation for the DCFO. He explained that with his many years of dedicated service and his loyalty to the former CFO in working his way up the ranks, it would be a severe blow to ones confidence in the succession planning process in the Public Service and could have rippling negative effects if he had not gotten the job. The AgPSCW informed that their

recommendation had highlighted the many dedicated years of service, experience and commitment of the DCFO. 3210. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District asked how a case, like the one pertaining to the DCFO fitted into succession planning. The AgPSCW informed that based on plans from the Fire and Rescue Services Department they were trying to

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implement the process for years and that the former CFO had groomed Mr. Penn as his successor for the role of Chief Fire Officer. 3211. The Minister for Communications and Works stated for the record that he made it very clear what his desires were regarding this matter when he went to the Ministry of Communications and Works, and he was happy that his Leader supported his desires. Sub Head 60620 Health Insurance and Sub Head 62620 Fire Services Expenses 3212. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian noted that Subheads 60620 and 62620 were relatively the same with regards to insurance and asked why they were not kept together under insurance. The DCFO explained that Subhead 60620 pertained to full time fire officers and Subhead 62620 pertained to part-time or auxiliary officers. 3213. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what sort of work was done on the rescue tender and he also wanted to know what type of vehicle it was. The DCFO informed that it was a 350-GM Fire Rescue Tender. He further explained that a rescue tender and had minimum fire suppression capability but was instead designed to carry out rescues from road traffic accidents, and carried equipment and medical supplies for resuscitation with regards to breathing problems, heart attacks and near drowning. He also informed that it carried the hazardous material equipment. The DCFO also informed that the under carriage of the tender and the chassis was repaired. 3214. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what type of equipment the department had to assist with drowning. The DCFO informed that there was the defibrillator, suction pump, sea collars and other equipment to assist with near drowning, vehicular accidents and any other medical emergencies to help stabilise the injured for transportation to the hospital. 3215. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if that type of equipment was on all fire and rescue vehicles. The DCFO advised that the tenders were the only

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vehicles that had that type of detailed equipment and that all other fire and rescue vehicles had first aid equipment only. 3216. Accordingly, Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if it was possible that the fire department would be dispatched to an emergency call without the proper equipment. The DCFO informed that there was a standard mobilising procedure in place whereby basic questions were asked and based on the information received the necessary resources would be deployed. 3217. The Member for the First District noted that there was a fire tender that was ordered for Capoons Bay and wanted to know what happened to it. The DCFO informed that the apparatus was ordered but was being used at the Road Town Fire Station for the past three years. 3218. The Member for the First District enquired as to when the tender would be sent to Capoons Bay. The DCFO advised that the pump on the tender was being replaced and once that was completed it was to be returned in March. 3219. The Member for the First District wanted to know if a pump to assist with flooding was going to be replaced on the apparatus for Capoons Bay. The DCFO informed that it was going to be replaced. 3220. The Member for the First District asked what the challenges were for operating the Fire Station in Capoons Bay twenty four hours per day. The DCFO advised that staffing the station was the challenge as each shift required a total of five (5) officers and there at least three (3) to four (4) shifts. 3221. The Member for the First District wanted to know what time the station was going to be open once the tender was returned. The DCFO answered that the station was going to be open from 8:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. and after that time the fire officers and axillary officers would be on call. He also added that the officers received a small stipend each month for their volunteer service.
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3222. The Member for the First District asked if additional auxiliary officers were going to be recruited. The DCFO advised that no more were going to be recruited at this time because the policy only allowed for fifty-two (52) auxiliary officers at one time. 3223. The Member for the First District stated for the record that he wanted to commend Fire and Rescue for the work that they were doing in Capoons Bay. 3224. The Member for the Eighth District wanted to know if the East End Fire Station was presently operational. The DCFO informed that it was but that there were some challenges whereby officers were taken from the East End and Capoons Bay stations to assist at the Road Town station when persons were out sick or on vacation to ensure that it was operational twenty-four (24) hours. 3225. The Member for the Eighth District enquired if the department had the full number of staff which was listed as sixty-one (61). The DCFO informed that it had not and that there were actually vacancies for four officers. 3226. The Member for the Eighth District asked what the ideal number of officers was for the East End Fire Station to be fully operational. The DCFO advised that for the time period of 8:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. the requirement by international standards was a minimum of six (6) persons. He added that to run the shift system, a minimum of eighteen (18) persons were needed. 3227. The Member for the Eighth District wanted to know why the station was closed. The DCFO informed that once officers were on vacation from the Road Town Fire Station, officers from the other stations were reassigned to the Road Town station to ensure that main station had enough persons on duty. 3228. The Member for the Eighth District asked if they were recruiting new staff. The DCFO advised that there were twenty-four new applicants. 3229. The Member for the Eighth District wanted to know who was responsible for the maintenance of the grounds at the station in East End. The DCFO informed that the
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officers were deemed to be self-sufficient and were responsible for bush cutting around the station. However, a post for a maintenance person for the entire

department was recently opened. 3230. The Member for the Eight District expressed that he wanted to see the full complement of staff for the station in East End considering the size and density of the area. The AgPSCW informed that she had taken note of the concerns and would relay the request to the Minister for Communications and Works. 3231. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian wanted to know what the fee was going to be for a fireworks permit and straw control burning. The DCFO informed that the fee for standby for fireworks operation was to be four hundred dollars ($400.00) and the fee for straw burning certificate was going to be ten dollars ($10.00). 3232. The Member for the Eighth District enquired whether there was a standby fee for displaying fireworks and straw burning in other Caribbean countries. The DCFO advised that it was done both regionally and internationally. 3233. The AgPSCW advised the Committee that the highest post among the administrative staff at the department was that of a Senior Executive Officer and that there was a strong need for someone in a more senior post to operate and manage the seventy-one staff at the department. Accordingly, the AgPSCW made an appeal for an

Administrative Officer and requested that thirty thousand dollars ($30,000.00) be taken from the consultancy budget to finance the post. Accordingly, the Financial Secretary asked the AgPSCW to submit the request in writing. 3234. The Member for the First District stated that the DeHR had too many persons on staff and he appealed to the Premier to pull one of their staff and have them reassigned to the Fire Department. 3235. The DCFO also made an appeal for money to be allocated for training of the Officers to ensure a world class service in the Territory. The Member for the First District agreed with the DCFO and further suggested that the thirty thousand dollars remain !"#$%)*"%&'%"#$%

under consultancy to be used for training and an employee from the DeHR be reassigned to the Fire Department. 3236. The Member for the Eight District asked where training for fire officers was conducted. The DCFO advised that training was conducted both in the Territory and overseas to the Fire Services College in the United Kingdom and the Texas

Training Facility 3237. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District thanked the panel for coming and for answering the questions and concerns raised by the Members.

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HEAD 550 Present:

WATER AND SEWERAGE

Mrs. Arlene Penn-Thompson

Acting

Permanent

Secretary,

Ministry

of

Communications and Works (AgPSCW) Mr. Manoherlal Kerof Mr. Bernard Grant Mrs. Margret Jones-Greene Ms. Dian Todman Mr. Kyle Moses Ms. Antoinette Warner Acting Director, Department of W&S Acting Deputy Director, Department of W&S Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry C&W Finance Officer, Ministry of C&W Acting Accounts Supervisor, W&S Senior Assistant Human Resources Manager,

3238. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District welcomed the panel and her team for appearing before the SFC and asked that they state their names to which they complied. 3239. The Acting Director of the Water and Sewerage Department (AgDWS) gave an overview in the form of a report on the status of the department and he advised the Committee that they were going to be provided with a copy of the said report. 3240. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired why there were constant leaks in the water lines. The AgDWS informed that there were two main reasons why there were leaks, one being that the pipes in the east to west distribution system were approximately thirty (30) years old and needed to be replaced as well as where pipes were repaired, the proper bedding was not in place to support the pipes. Another reason was that there was more traffic on the roads today than there was thirty (30) years ago and so the weight of the vehicles caused the pipes to break. Another reason
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was that water was being pumped directly from the plant into the main lines and the pressure caused the pipes to break. 3241. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian suggested that perhaps a new grade of pipe was needed or where the pipes were laid needed to be redesigned to accommodate road traffic. The AgDWS noted that the pipes needed to be replaced and in doing so a better grade of pipes which could withstand traffic was to be selected. 3242. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if areas with frequent breakage, was well documented. The AgDWS confirmed that they were. 3243. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if the grade of pipe was increased when repairs were carried out especially in the areas between Pockwood Pond and Pleasant Valley, where there were frequent breakages in the pipes. The AgDWS noted that when repairs were done the same grade of pipe was used because it was only a small area which was being replaced. He informed however, that in some areas where larger sections had to be repaired the pipes were replaced with a stronger grade of pipe. 3244. The AgDDWS also added that the disruption in flow of water contributed to the ruptures in the pipes, since as the water needed to be shut off at night. He further noted that the pipes were designed for 200 (two hundred) PSI and once the water was turned back on the pressure from the flow of water from the reservoir four hundred (400) feet above at Hannah Hill caused the pipes to break as well. To minimize the number of breaks the AgDDWS informed that a short-term measure was the introduction of Pressure Reducing Valves (PRV). He also noted that in the long-term, there needed to be constant flow of water in the pipes which would minimise breakages. 3245. The AgDDWS further informed that over the years roads had been constructed in areas where they are overlaying on pipes which were in undesirable positions for the weight of the roads and as such, the pipes had to be realigned. He noted that some
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pipes on the Ridge Road were realigned and replaced with a higher grade pipe as they were scientifically proven to be faulty years after they were installed. 3246. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if in conjunction with PRVs if a higher grade of pipe was going to be considered for installation. The AgDDWS informed that the grade of pipe which was presently being used were world-wide standard pipes. He also informed that the mountainous terrain made the engineering for laying the pipes very challenging and to help alleviate the problem water zones were to be created whereby the pressure in the pipes would not go beyond 150 PSI as the maximum the pipes can withstand was 200 PSI. 3247. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian noted that the pipes which were being used by Biwater were much larger than the standard pipes and when he enquired why they were using that size pipe, he was informed that it was due to the fact that water was going to be pumped upward from Paraquita Bay to Sabboth Hill. Territorial Member then asked if it would be more practical for the Department of Water and Sewerage to use the same size pipes on flat surfaces as were being installed by Biwater. The AgDDWS advised that several years ago cast iron pipes were used on Tortola and the quality of water being produced was of a more brackish quality which had negative effects on iron and accordingly, a decision was made to change the pipes to PVC.The AgDDWS also advised that the cast iron pipes were more ridged and repairs would be more time-consuming, and any decision to revert to cast-iron pipes would have to be made at the Ministry level as it would be very costly. 3248. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if the quality of water received through the metal pipes which was being installed by Biwater was going to be compromised. The AgDWS informed that there was no comparison with between distribution pipes and the pumping manes which was the purpose Biwater was laying that type of pipe. 3249. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired as to approximately when the distribution pipes were going to be replaced.
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The AgDWS informed that the

department had been ready to carry out the project since 2007 and each year since the budget was submitted for the works to be carried out a little at a time. 3250. The Member for the Second District noted that a second water tank was being installed at Sabboth Hill and he asked if the old tank was going to be replaced. The AgDWS informed that the existing tank was not going to be replaced but would be repaired by Biwater once the new tank was commissioned. 3251. The Member for the Second District enquired what date Biwater was expected to begin supplying water. The AgDWS advised that as of November 2011 the targeted date was going to be late June or early July in 2012. Sub Head 62600 Purchase of Desalinated Water 3252. The Member for the Second District noted that the budgeted amount in this Sub Head was six million, nine hundred and four thousand, one hundred dollars ($6,904,100.00), and wanted to know why the figure was so much less as compared to previous years when the amount was significantly higher. The AgDWS responded that traditionally, each year the money in the budget was always less than the contractual amount and the balance of the money was allotted through supplementary allocations. 3253. The Member for the Second District asked approximately how much water the Territory used on a daily basis. The AgDWS informed that approximately three million, five hundred thousand (3,500,000) imperial gallons of water on Tortola and approximately four million, three hundred thousand (4,300,000) imperial gallons of water was consumed within twenty four hours throughout the Territory. 3254. The Member for the Second District also asked how much water was being produced daily. The AgDWS advised that approximately two million (2,000,000) imperial gallons of water were produced daily Territory-wide and approximately one million, seven hundred thousand (1,700,000) imperial gallons of water were produced on Tortola.
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3255. The Member for the Second District enquired how much water was produced at the Baughers Bay plant daily. The AgDWS informed that approximately eight hundred and fifty thousand (850,000) imperial gallons of water was produced per day. 3256. The Member for the Second District asked what the contracted amount of water per day was with Biwater. The AgDWS answered that Biwater was contracted to

produce two million, three hundred thousand (2,300,000)imperial gallons of water per day. He added that daily the Baughers Bay plant produced eight hundred and fifty thousand (850,000) imperial gallons of water, the Bar Bay plant produced four hundred and sixty-seven thousand (467,000) imperial gallons of water, at the Elmore Stoutt High School, one hundred and twenty thousand (120,000) imperial gallons was produced, at Capoons Bay one hundred and thirty-three (133,000) imperial gallons was produced, at Sea Cows Bay, two hundred and seventy-four thousand (274,000) imperial gallons were produced, at Handsome Bay, two hundred and thirty-six thousand (236,000) imperial gallons were produced, at North Sound, forty-four thousand (44,000) imperial gallons were produced, at Little Harbour, twenty four thousand (24,000) imperial gallons were produced, on Anegada, twenty-two thousand (22,000) imperial gallons were produced, which all totaled one million, nine hundred and ninety thousand (1,990,000) gallons of water per day. 3257. The Member for the Second District noted that once Biwater was producing water, there was going to be a surplus in water production and enquired if that was correct. The AgDWS confirmed that there was going to be a surplus. 3258. The Member for the Second District asked what plans are in place to off-set the surpluses of water. The AgDWS advised that such a decision would have to be made at the Ministry level. The Minister for Communications and Works noted that it was premature to say what was going to be done and informed that all contracts were being reviewed and once that was completed, the House (of Assembly) was going to be advised as to the position including whether there was indeed a surplus or not.

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3259. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked what was the cost of operating the Baughers Bay plant. The AgDWS informed that the actual figure from 29th March 2010 to December 2011 was five million, seven hundred and thirteen thousand, two hundred dollars and twelve cents ($5,713,200.12). 3260. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired how many gallons of water was produced. The AgDWS informed that when the plant was operated by Ocean Conversion and before it was refurbished, it produced one million, three hundred thousand (1,300,000) imperial gallons of water and at present it was producing eight hundred and fifty thousand (850,000) imperial gallons. The Minister for Communications and Works noted that the Minister for Health and Social Development wanted the figure for that specific time frame Government was operating the plant and therefore instructed the AgDWS to provide the Committee with the answer at a later time. 3261. The Member for the Eighth District noted that before the Baugher's Bay plant was refurbished it produced approximately one million, three hundred thousand (1,300,000) imperial gallons of water and at present it was only producing eight hundred and fifty thousand (850,000) imperial gallons. Accordingly, the Member enquired if the refurbishment caused the plant to produce less water. The AgDWS confirmed that it had. 3262. The Member for the Eighth District wanted to know why that was. The AgDWS explained that it was now a different system and a different plant as 90% of the parts on the plant were changed because they were not operable. He further noted that the maximum capacity was nine hundred thousand (900,000) to one million (1,000,000) imperial gallons of water per day. 3263. The Member for the Eighth District asked what the cost of the refurbishment was. The AgDWS explained that he was not directly responsible for the refurbishment of the plant and perhaps the Minister for Communications and Works was the better person to answer the question. The AgDWS did however note that each time there
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was a payment for water purchase, he had received written directive from the Ministry which clearly indicated how much the purchase order was to be raised for. 3264. The Member for the Eighth District asked for the Ministry to answer his question. The AgPSCW informed that she was in the same position as the AgDWS as she was not directly involved with the refurbishment of the Baughers Bay plant and it was a system she met in place. She further explained that she was trying to familiarize herself with the system in order to have a better understanding of the problems at the plant. 3265. The Member for the Eighth District asked for clarification that the Department of Water and Sewerage was not involved in the refurbishment of the plant. The

AgPSCW informed that according to her understanding the department was not directly involved in the refurbishment of the plant or even the day to day operations of the plant. She added that their only involvement was to pay the bills. 3266. The Member for the Eighth District asked if that was still the case. The AgPSCW advised that that was not still the case and that the MCW had since sought more involvement from the department. 3267. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired who the Accounting Officer for the MCW was. The AgPSCW informed that she was the Accounting Officer. 3268. The Minister for Education and Culture asked the AgPSCW if she was confirming that as the accounting officer she had little knowledge of Baughers Bay Plant and Biwater. The AgPSCW confirmed that she had little involvement as there was a consultant on board at the MCW who worked directly with the former Minister. 3269. The Minister for Education and Culture noted that as Accounting Officer the AgPSCW should have been involved with matters pertaining to Biwater as it was a government project. The AgPSCW explained that at the point that Biwater is

presently performing, they were responsible for their own funding so government was not involved financially at this stage. !"#$%)+*%&'%"#$%

3270. The Minister for Health and Social Development reminded the AgDWS of the information he was to submit to the Committee regarding the number of gallons of water produced from March2010 to December 2011. The AgDWS clarified that the five million, seven hundred thousand dollars ($5,700,000.00) was inclusive of all the operating cost such as maintenance, electricity and refurbishment. 3271. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if there were any other cost centres that were used to pay bills for the Baughers Bay plant. The AgPSCW informed that there were none. 3272. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if any monies for refurbishing the plant came from Capital funding. The AgPSCW informed that all expenditure for the plant came from the Desalination expenditure. She also noted that a Cabinet decision was made in 2010 granting permission for the Sub Head to be used for refurbishment of the plant. 3273. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired who operated the Baughers Bay plant. The AgDWS advised that once the plant was handed over to Government the Department of Water and Sewerage was put in charge of operations at the plant. He also noted that eventually a team of five persons were put in place by the Ministry to operate the plant. 3274. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked who the five employees reported to. The AgDWS informed that the lead person of the five reported to the Minister for Communications and Works. 3275. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked who presently reported to the Minister for Communications and Works. The AgPSCW informed that Mr. Milford Todman reported to the Minister. 3276. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired who provided external assistance. The AgPSCW informed that external assistance was provided by a

company named ISI and Aqua Design. !"#$%)++%&'%"#$%

3277. The Mister for Health and Social Development asked if the monies at Sub Head 62600 were used to pay those two companies. The AgDWS confirmed that it was. 3278. The Minister for Communications and Works asked if there were any outstanding monies from the period of March2010 to December 2011 and if yes, what that amount was. The Acting Accounts Supervisor informed that the outstanding bills included Aqua Designs, Data Pro, Quality Air, ISI, Ring Power and BVI Electricity Corporation from June (2011) to December (2011) for a total of one million, five hundred thousand dollars ($1,500,000.00). 3279. The Minister for Communications and Works asked for an exact figure instead of a rounded figure. The Acting Accounts Supervisor informed that the actual figure was one million, five hundred and nineteen thousand, one hundred and sixty-six dollars and eight cents ($1,519,166.08). 3280. The Minister for Communications and Works asked if the outstanding amount was inclusive of the overall five million, seven hundred thousand dollars ($5,700,000.00) for operating costs. The Acting Accounts Supervisor confirmed that it was. The AgDWS added that of the one million, five hundred thousand dollars ($1,500,000), one million, one hundred and twenty thousand dollars ($1,120,000.00) alone was for electricity. 3281. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District asked if the plant was presently in operation. The AgDWS advised that it was. 3282. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District asked if the plant was in operation continuously. The AgDWS confirmed that it was. 3283. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked who the consultant to the Ministry during the period of March 2010 to December 2011. The AgPSCW informed that during that period ISI and Aqua Designs were the consultants to the Ministry during that time.
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3284. The Minister for Communications and Works enquired if there was a consultant overseeing the plant in addition to ISI and Aqua Designs and who was the consultant. The AgPSCW advised that there was a consultant and that it was Mr. Ray George. 3285. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked how many consultants were engaged on the plant. The AgDWS explained that his understanding was a bit

different from that of the AgPSCW in that he understood ISI had provided the parts and some strategic services which Aqua Design could not provide, and Aqua Design handled the day to day operation of the plant. Subhead 62600 Desalinated Water 3286. The Member for the Third District enquired about the current production rate at the water plant. 3287. The Acting Director of Water and Sewerage (AgDWS) confirmed that the average water production rate for December 2011 was 731,193 imperial gallons per day and the average for the year from the start of operation in 2010 to December 2011 was 617,509 imperial gallons per day. 3288. The Member for the Third District asked if there was something wrong with the plant. The AgDWS indicated that the well fields are having some problems due to the accumulation of sludge. He stated that water production is below average from the 850,000 gallons per day which was produced for July, August and September 2011 because the well fields need to be cleaned. 3289. The Member for the Third District stated that on March 13, 2011, water production was up to 950,000 gallons per day. The AgDWS however differed and stated that in March 2011 the average per day was 631,180 gallons. He confirmed that readings are taken monthly by the Water and Sewerage Department along with a member of staff at the plant.

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3290. The Member for the Third District questioned the reliability of the Departments Records and the accuracy of the meters, considering the fact that for the period stated the readings he give came directly from the Plants computer. 3291. The Member for the Eighth District asked what the average production rate was prior to the taking over of the plant. The AgDWS indicated that the plant was handed over to the Water and Sewerage Department on March 29, 2011 and prior to that, the average production for January 2010 was 1,035,667 and the average production for February 2010 was 1,014,517. He stated that both months averaged approximately one million gallons per day. It was also noted that the capacity production for the plant is 1.3 million gallons per day. 3292. The Member for the Eighth District queried if the plant is producing less than it was producing before since Government took over the plant and refurbished it. 3293. The Member for the Third District then pointed out that two separate plants were being discussed one which has the capacity to supply 1.2 million gallons per day and another which can produce one million. He noted that the plant is limited by its supply of raw water which is a result of the well fields declining yield. 3294. The AgDWS agreed and added that the well fields were cleaned before but must now be cleaned again. He stated that this is the reason that production is low. 3295. The Member for the Eighth District asked why the cleaning hasnt been done. 3296. The AgDWS replied that he was not in charge of the plant in terms of operation and maintenance which is currently handled by a separate team. He stated that the plant was turned over to the Water and Sewerage Department in January, and in a meeting held, three major problems were cited with the plant. He noted that there is ongoing dialogue with the Ministry of Communications and Works to resolve these matters, however, the well fields will be addressed as the top priority.

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3297. The Member for the Eighth District enquired if the AgDWS was just becoming aware of these issues. The AgDWS responded in the affirmative. 3298. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked who holds responsibility for the plant. The AgDWS replied that he assumed that the plant was the responsibility of the Ministry of Communications and Works since there was a team coordinated by the Ministry with a plant manager. 3299. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired asked who the plant manager was and sought details on the composition of the team. The Acting Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Communications and Works responded that Mr. Milford Todman currently supervises the plant. She added that the rest of the team is comprised of Mr. Morrison Wattley, Mr. Rafael Frazer, Mr. Vincent Vengersammy and Mr. Cayma Nibbs. She stated that they are Water Plant Officers who work on day and night shifts to man the plant. 3300. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if these persons have a contract with the Ministry. The AgPSCW responded in the affirmative. 3301. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian then sought information about the length of the contracts. The AgPSCW indicated that the contracts were for varying time periods and then she gave the following information: Mr. Todmans contract took effect July 11, 2011 and is for a period of one year. His salary is at the rate of $40,000.00 per annum. Mr. Wattley was initially contracted for a six-month period which expired in January 2011 and his salary is at a rate of $27,000.00 per annum. She then explained that those contracts that have expired recently have been put on a month to month basis. Mr. Frazer was also initially contracted for a six-month period in 2010 and his latest extension will bring his contracts expiration date to July 31, 2012. He is salaried at a rate of $25,500.00 per annum. Mr. Vengersammys first contract was effective June 29, 2010 for a period of six months and has since been extended. His latest extension will expire on July 31, 2012. He is compensated at a rate of $25,000.00 per annum. Mr. Nibbss contract took effect on June 1, 2011 for a
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six-month period at a rate of $16,643.00 per annum. However, Mr. Nibbs is currently on leave as he has a matter pending before the court. She further noted that the Ministry is in the process of reviewing contractual arrangements and this includes the staff at the Baughers Bay plant. 3302. The Member for the Third District sought the Terms of Reference for the contracts for each individual. The AgPSCW listed the duties/responsibilities for Mr. Frazer who is the Water Plant Operator: Adheres to shift schedules; Ensures that there is a proper turnover of shift to oncoming shift personnel; Performs related work as required for the productivity, effectiveness and safe working procedures and conditions; Ensures that any issues with the facility are communicated without delay to the water plant supervisor or on-call technician; Assists with the collection of data and ensures that the information is stored in an easily accessible and reliable form; Monitoring water dials and gauge readings that show how well the equipment at the plant is working; Records information on relevant books, and; Assists with taking samples to test water to ensure that water quality is at appropriate levels

3303. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired about Mr. Ray Georges role with regard to the plant and enquired about who he reported to. 3304. The AgPSCW stated that Mr. George was the consultant attached to the Ministry of Communications and Works and that additionally, he carried out General Manager duties at the plant. She elaborated that Mr. Todman currently has supervisory
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responsibility for the plant but prior to Mr. George being terminated, he was the General Manager. She indicated that Mr. George reported to the then Minister for Communications and Works. 3305. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if Mr. George was paid over and above his position at the Ministry and if his additional duties were part of a separate arrangement. The AgPSCW added, as a point of clarification, that prior to Mr. George taking control of the plant, it was supervised by Mr. Mervin Charles. She noted that Mr. Charles contract originally commenced in April 2010 and expired on May 31, 2011. 3306. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about Mr. Charles salary. The AgPSCW informed that Mr. Charles was paid at a rate of $40,000.000 per annum. She further explained that after Mr. Charles contract expired there was a gap between plant managers and Mr. George, being the Consultant dealing with matters related to Bi-Water, was asked by the Minister at that time to have oversight of the plant in the interim. She divulged that that arrangement was formalised in October 2011. She further noted that Mr. Georges first contract with the Ministry had expired and was then renewed under Special Projects Consultant and that one of his duties was managing the Baughers Bay plant until his contract ended. 3307. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the salary attached to Mr. Georges first and second contracts. The AgPSCW only had the details of the second contract at the time. She stated that the second contract commenced on November 2, 2011 and carried a base salary of $7,083.33 per month plus a car allowance. 3308. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked for the most important scope of works for the said contract. The AgPSCW listed the most important scope of works for Mr. Georges second contract, as follows: General Manager to newly established water production unit that was approved by Cabinet to be operated from the Ministry;
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To maintain his (then) current assignment on the Bi-Water project; Analyze and assimilate information or data; Review proposals and other information related to his assigned duties; Develop tracking mechanisms to measure and report on all matters related to his assigned tasks

3309. The Minister for Health and Social Development questioned how the plant is currently being monitored. The AgPSCW responded that the Ministry of

Communications and Works has oversight of the plant right now and also has support from the Water and Sewerage Department who focuses on the day to day issues that may arise. She added that the members of the team mentioned previously are who actually run the plant but in terms of managerial oversight, the Water and Sewerage Department is now involved in every aspect and report directly to the Ministry. She noted that from time to time the AgPSCW and the Minister would visit the plant and that they are in touch with the staff in the event that issues may arise. She mentioned also that the Ministry has relationships with Industrial Services Incorporation (ISI) and Aqua Design and that both companies provide support services for the running of the plant. 3310. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if there is any technology attached to the plant that allows the supervisors to monitor it remotely. The AgPSCW indicated that she was recently informed by the Water and Sewerage Department that there is such a mechanism in place where the plant can by remotely monitored from ISI. 3311. The Minister for Health and Social Development then asked who is monitoring the plant. The Acting Deputy Director, Water and Sewerage (AgDDWS) noted that as of January 2011, he was given the task of overseeing the plant in terms of daily operations, procedures and maintenance. He noted that Mr. Todman reports to the
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AgDDWS twice daily and advises if there are any issues at the plant. He elaborated that if a situation arose that could not be handled directly by the Water and Sewerage Department, for example electrical difficulties, then, the matter was referred to the Ministry. In terms of monitoring, the AgDDWS stated that there was still remote access to the plant, primarily by ISI and that he was unsure if any other persons had such access. 3312. The Minister for Health and Social Development requested that a list of all persons involved in the remote monitoring of the plant be subsequently provided to the Members of the Standing Finance Committee since the information was not available at the time. The AgDDWS assured members that an investigation would be launched, forthwith, to acquire this information. 3313. The Member for the Third District advised that once the computer system got up and running, ISI created the remote monitoring system whereby authorised individuals were able to check the plant from any location. He disclosed that authorised users included ISI representatives, one person from Aqua Design and the former Minister for Communications and Works. He further stated that Mr. George who was the General Manager for the plant also had access to remote readings. He noted that the control for this system is still with ISI. 3314. The Member for the Eighth District asked for clarification on who ISI is. The AgDDWS responded that ISI is a company out of the United States and was instrumental in building the first water plant at Baughers Bay which was under Reliable Water/Ocean Conversion at the time. He noted that this company is

responsible for the recent refurbishment as well as the programming of the plant. 3315. The Member for the Eighth District asked, for confirmation, if ISI built a customised system to monitor the plant. The AgDDWS stated that Water and Sewerage officials were not privy to the scope of works given to ISI so he could not comment directly.

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3316. The Member for the Eighth District questioned who locally manages the software that grants remote access to the plant (whether a staff member at Water and Sewerage or one of the special team members). The AgDDWS responded that to the best of his knowledge, there was no one that monitored the programme, locally. 3317. The Member for the Eighth District enquired if the Minister would have to go to ISI to request access to the system for another Member. The Member for the Third District responded in the affirmative. 3318. The Member for the Eighth District enquired if there is a contractual agreement with ISI and what were the terms of the agreement, if there is one. The AgPSCW stated that based on her research, there are a number of petty contracts with ISI which were based on the service that was needed at a particular point in time. She noted that it is not evident from the records that there is one contract that covers all the services that may be desired, but there are a series of agreements based on need. 3319. The Member for the Eighth District recapped for clarification that ISI was responsible for the refurbishing of the plant as well as responsible for the software that allows for the monitoring of the plant and that there is no formal contract or agreement with that company indicating what the Government would be liable for. The AgPSCW noted that this issue was raised with the Budget Unit at the Ministry as this arrangement was in place prior to her taking up her current position. She indicated that she would not have been privy to whatever initial discussion took place with ISI in terms of what support they were expected to provide to the Ministry. 3320. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian pointed out that there should be a file for ISI and all the information required should be on that file. The AgPSCW confirmed that there is a file for ISI that contains the series of agreements. It would appear that as a specific need arose, an agreement was drawn up mostly for the supply of equipment and support services. She stated that the file indicates that there is an open-ended arrangement with ISI and that the Ministry is now trying to address this situation.
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3321. The Member for the Third District suggested that they find the agreement that deals with the installation of the software for the plant. He opined that that agreement would inform what ISIs responsibilities were. 3322. The Member for the Eighth District questioned if ISIs sole involvement was to provide the software. The AgPSCW clarified that in addition to the software, they provided equipment as well as ongoing support services. 3323. The Member for the Eighth District then asked if ISI is the company from which all the expertise in terms of building the new plant was sourced. The AgPSCW responded in the affirmative and added that ISI was assisted by Aqua Design in granting support services. 3324. The Member for the Third District stated that there was no agreement with ISI to manage the plant; however, they make themselves available as needed. He added that if any particular service is required, a new agreement would be created. 3325. The Member for the Eighth District questioned the presence of a local knowledge base during the process of refurbishing the plant and installing the software (local in terms of Government representation). The AgDDWS responded that the local input was strictly to monitor the plant which is now done by the specially assigned team. He indicated that it was not in the current employees scope of works to acquire the knowledge to make repairs. 3326. The Member for the Eighth District pointed out that it was previously stated that the Water and Sewerage Department had no involvement in the process, however, otherwise is now being said. He asked for clarity on this matter. The AgDDWS explained that when the plant was initially turned over to Government, there was a desperate need for the plant to be activated. He indicated that the most immediate need at the time was to employ a few of the Water and Sewerage personnel strictly on a monitoring basis and that those employees were given a crash course from Aqua Design to look at all the vital instrumentation. He noted that when a situation arose
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that was out of the employees reach, the matter was reported to Ministry officials who in turn contacted Aqua Design for any repair work. That arrangement lasted for four months and ended in July 2010. Subsequently, the Ministry employed external personnel to continue the direct monitoring of the plant on a 24-hour basis. He then stated that the arrangement with Aqua Design remained in place as they gave repair services, when needed as well as rigorous maintenance operations although there was no formal contract with them. He added that in the current arrangement, the current employees monitor the plant, ISI monitors the software and Aqua Design does the necessary repairs. 3327. The Member for the Third District informed that there was indeed a contract with Aqua Design and then asked for the scope of works for Mr. Milford Todman to be listed. The AgPSCW listed the duties assigned to Mr. Todman who is the Water

Treatment Plant Technician as follows: To provide mechanical and preventative maintenance services at the Baughers Bay plant; Under general supervision, leads and participates in the repair and maintenance of systems at the plant; Develops and implements approved schedules for preventative maintenance of valves and pumps; Carries out repairs and routine preventative maintenance of mechanical equipment; Monitors and ensures the effective operation of mechanical equipment; Conducts scheduled valve maintenance and inspection; Monitors water dials and gauge readings that show how well the equipment at the plant is working and records information in relevant books;
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Prepares various reports on maintenance and activities; Ensures that all mechanical equipment is in compliance with regulated guidelines and makes adjustments as needed to ensure the treatment process is fully capable of compliance with regulated guidelines;

Assists with the preparation of specifications for material and equipment purchases;

Inspects equipment and facilities and makes or recommends preventative maintenance adjustments and replacements;

Inspects, services and repairs components of the Water Treatment Plant including water intakes, pipes, water storage vessels, chemical treatment equipment controls, circulation pumps, boilers, heat exchanges and valves;

Inspects the treatment plant systems on a daily basis to ensure effective operations;

Conducts inspections of heating, ventilation and cooling systems; Lubricates equipment and checks for malfunctions on a regular basis; Adheres to allocated work schedules, and; Any other duties that may be assigned by the Minister for Communications and Works or any designated officer

3328. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired if his salary for all these duties is only $40,000.00 and if Mr. Todman receives any allowances. The AgPSCW indicated that upon completion of his contract, Mr. Todman will receive a tax-free gratuity at the rate of 5% of the total gross salary earned.

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3329. The Member for the Eighth District asked if there was anyone in the Department of Water and Sewerage that could have carried out the previously mentioned duties. The AgDWS responded in the negative. 3330. The Member for the Third District stated that previously, the communication between ISI and the plant itself was done by the Consultant at the Ministry. He added that prior to that, communication was done through the former Minister. He then enquired as to who currently liaises between ISI the Plant and Aqua Design. The AgPSCW responded that she is now the person who liaises directly with ISI particularly on matters related to emergency situations that may arise at the plant (for example, the need for spare parts). She also indicated that ISI is in communication with Aqua Design and maybe, from time to time with Mr. Todman. 3331. The Member for the Third District made an observation that the AgPSCW did not list herself as someone who monitors the plant. The AgPSCW confirmed that she does not monitor the plant. 3332. The Member for the Third District opined that the plant will continue to deteriorate and the water production level will continue to decline unless the person who liaises with ISI directly has daily monitoring capabilities to see what is happening at the plant. 3333. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that as Minister, he does not intend to, wish to nor is he qualified to monitor the plant. He pointed out that he does not have the capability to do so, nor does the AgPSCW who also has other duties to fulfill. He emphasised that, under his direction, the AgPSCW will not be monitoring the Baughers Bay plant in the sense that was suggested. He stated, however, that as Accounting Officer for the Ministry, the AgPSCW will have to keep a general oversight of the plant although she does not intend to be trained to monitor the plant.

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3334. The Member for the Third District reiterated his previous statement as a point of clarification. He stated that the person who is communicating directly between the plant and ISI needs to be a person who monitors the plant as well. 3335. The Member for the Second District recommended to the Minister for Communications and Works to take a policy that would place the management of the plant back into the hands of the technical experts. He suggested that this be done quickly due to the importance of the matter. He opined that it is a matter that is costing the country some $16 million in revenue while there is confusion about who should be monitoring the plant. He added that the plant belongs to the Government which should have a technical department that is capable of handling it. He advised that a Cabinet decision should be taken to put the responsibility of the plant in the hands of the technical experts that are on staff until a clear policy can be decided. 3336. The Minister for Communications and Works stated, for the record, that it is prudent to note that the panel indicated that as of January 2012, the Water and Sewerage Department is responsible for the technical management of the plant and this arrangement will continue until a review is completed of the situation. Therefore, following the previous members suggestion, this is the case as of January this year. 3337. The Member for the Eighth District questioned what type of involvement the Water and Sewerage Department has right now with the plant in terms of managing it and liaising with ISI and Aqua Design. The AgDWS responded that on a day to day basis, Mr. Todman reports to the AgDDWS, who then reports to the AgDWS. He disclosed that a meeting was held last Thursday with the AgDWS, the AgDDWS, Mr. Todman and a representative from Aqua Design to discuss the major issues at the plant. He stated that at that meeting, it was discussed that the well field requires immediate intervention and that there is a problem with the software which only ISI can deal with. The AgDWS noted that these particular issues will be addressed with the Ministry. It was also mentioned that ISI has provided a list of spare parts that are

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needed and that alternative sources are being sought because the quoted prices are quite high. 3338. The AgDDWS added that although it was previously stated that Aqua Design was heavily involved in the operation and maintenance of the plant, this has changed quite a bit as Mr Todman is now much more equipped to deal with the minor maintenance needs of the plant. He noted that Mr. Todman is able to handle tasks like changing the filter, changing the sensors, troubleshooting and doing the necessary checks on the well field. He then reiterated that when a situation is out of Mr. Todmans range (especially where it relates to finance), Mr. Todman informs the AgDDWS who in turn would inform the AgDWS who would then direct the matter to the Ministry. In some instances, it was noted that Water and Sewerage officials may informally and directly liaise with ISI. 3339. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian pointed out that the schedule of expenses from March to January show evidence that ISI is more immersed in the operation of the plant than anyone else. He noted that this company was being paid the most money outside of BVI Electricity Corporation and that there may even be outstanding payments owed to them. The Member enquired if it would be more economical to engage ISI on a one-off basis or to formalise a contract with ISI, giving them their responsibilities with respect to the operation of the plant. The Member also indicated that it is confusing that there are so many entities involved in the operation of the Baughers Bay plant in comparison to the plant at Hodges Creek. 3340. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that the Ministry is in the process of reviewing the entire operation, therefore, he would not go on record with what direction will be taken until the review is completed. He added that the review should be completed shortly. 3341. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired if Mr. Mervin Charles was replaced with Mr. Milford Todman. The AgPSCW indicated that this was not so and that Mr. Charles was succeeded by Mr. Ray George.
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3342. The Minister for Health and Social Development then enquired what Mr. Charless position was. The AgPSCW confirmed that Mr. Charles was the Water Plant Supervisor. 3343. The Member for the Third District opined that it was inaccurate to assume that the fees paid to ISI indicate that the company played a major role in the operation of the plant. He noted that ISIs role has always been to rebuild the Plant and provide replacement parts when needed. He indicated that the last thing that the company came to the plant to do was to flush the membranes. The Member also indicated that he understood that Mr. Todman was at the point where he could complete that specific task himself. The AgDWS however stated that Mr. Todman indicated in last weeks meeting that he would prefer for ISI to flush the membranes and to deal with some of the software problems. 3344. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian highlighted that the largest single payment to ISI was for $607,000.00 in July 2010 and that during the period of March 2010 to February 2012, the schedule indicates that ISI played a key role by virtue of payments. 3345. The Member for the Third District countered that it was stated explicitly that ISI rebuilt the plant and in order to do so, vessels had to be purchased at a cost of at least $500,000.00 while the membranes were another $300,000.00. He stated that all of that took place since the plant was turned over to Government on March 29, 2010 and that the rebuilding was not completed until a year later. He highlighted that ISI advised government on what process should be followed, and were issued contracts for whatever route was taken and that Aqua Design sourced the membranes, while another company erected the racks for the Vessels. He added that as the plant became operational, if any part malfunctioned, ISI would advise if the part must be replaced and would also get a contract to do that work. The Member emphasised that the rebuilding of the plant was not a planned for, but had to be done on the fly. The plant also had to continue producing water while the rebuilding was being done.
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3346. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian indicated that there were a total of 20-plus payments made to ISI during the time frame being discussed. He again queried if it would not have been more economical to issue one comprehensive contract as opposed to all the separate contracts. 3347. The Member for the Third District responded that in order to attain a comprehensive contract it would have required weeks of Design study and negotiations, and given the dilapidated state of the Plant, it would have certainly collapsed into a total shutdown, which would have been reckless and irresponsible. We just did not have the luxury of time. 3348. The Member for the Eighth District questioned if there was a warranty on the plant for the work that was completed during 2010. 3349. The Member for the Third District responded that there were different warranties based on individual parts and that each part had its own warranty. 3350. The Member for the Eighth District then queried if there is a catalogue containing all this information on the different warranties. The AgDWS stated that his

Departments role was limited except for requests made, via written communication, by the Ministry to raise purchase orders using Water and Sewerage Departments subhead to issue payments. He noted that their role has now increased since January 2012. He also pointed out that agreements came attached to the aforementioned communications from the Ministry and that these agreements were perused before payments were issued. He confirmed that the Water and Sewerage Department does not have a compiled list for the parts and their warranties, however, the file will be checked to find if Mr. George or Mr. Todman had this information. It this is not the case, a catalogue will have to be made. 3351. The Member for the Eighth District asked if there is a framework or a structural approach that the AgDWS is moving forward with to take control of this whole operation. The AgDDWS pointed out that it was previously discussed that the
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Ministry would be conducting a technical review of the plant and that the Departments role in this review exercise is to be ready with as much information as possible. He confirmed that they have embarked on gathering information from technical personnel, ISI and Aqua Design so that they can advise the Ministry on the current situation as well as what needs to be done. 3352. The Member for the Eighth District questioned how much money has been paid to Aqua Design and ISI to date. The AgDWS responded that this information is currently being compiled for each vendor and should be made available to the Committee by the end of the day. 3353. The Member for the Fifth District opined that a lot of the information that has been presented seems reliant upon what the former Minister says it is. She pointed out that as standard Government procedure, records should be properly kept so that when one Permanent Secretary takes over from another, the incoming person can follow whatever happened previously. This does not seem to be the case. 3354. The Member for the Third District indicated that all the information that the former Minister for Communications and Works had was handed over to the person who was managing the plant (and that person was not present). He stated that he was simply using his knowledge of the plant to contribute to the discussions. The Member then highlighted that the Ministry went through four Permanent Secretaries in the four years of his tenure as Minister and that the current Permanent Secretary came in after the plant was well in its state of change. He opined that this is why the AgPSCW is not au fait with all of the information. 3355. The Member for the Fifth rebutted that certain information, as it relates to expenditure, should be on file. The AgPSCW stated that the agreement with ISI for the plant upgrade was signed on June 29, 2010. She outlined the particulars of that agreement, as follows: Upgrade the pressure vessels;
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Replace the high pressure pumps; Replace the energy recovery system; Upgrade the control for the high pressure pump.

3356. This contract was for $1,214,713.00. 3357. The AgPSCW further stated that the other agreement regarding the software was signed in October 2010 and ISI was contracted to: Supply and install replacement hardware, and; Replacement of the major components in the control cabinet or control system

3358. This agreement was for $39,240.00. 3359. The Member for the Fifth District enquired if Aqua Design is still involved in the operations of the plant and to what extent. The AgPSCW responded in the

affirmative and confirmed that Aqua Design is usually involved when there is a need to troubleshoot major problems at the plant. 3360. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if all the costs were presented in the document at hand. The AgDWS responded in the affirmative and stated that there were also a few instances where written directives came from the Ministry for particular costs to be paid from Water and Sewerages operation subhead but those requests were very few and of a minor nature. He also explained that the figure which was quoted on Friday and the figure submitted today are a little different because there was an error that was corrected. Some of the cost for electricity was omitted. 3361. The Member for the Eighth District asked for descriptions of what the expenses were for. The AgDWS stated that this information is being compiled and will be made available shortly. The AgPSCW stated that there are files at the Ministry with all of
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the agreements. She then assured Members that a complete list of all the agreements that the Ministry has with ISI will be provided later on in the day. 3362. The Minister for Health and Social Development questioned why Vanguard Security, who had a contract for $6,588.00, was fired and then Leonard & Associates was employed for $8,000.00. 3363. The Member for the Third District suggested that the Members read both contracts to ascertain the scope of involvement and see how both companies differ. He divulged that under the first security contract with Vanguard, the initial intent was that the plant would be electronically monitored as opposed to manual security. This did not occur. He further explained that after Vanguard had put in over a year, the Ministry decided to rotate security companies for the plant. He noted that during the time that Vanguard was contracted, there were a few security breaches at the plant where copper wires and cables were stolen. The Member emphasised that the decision to change companies was not because of how Vanguard performed but rather the position that the Ministry had taken on rotating companies every six months to a year. The Member could not offer an explanation as to why the costs for the companies differed but he disclosed that the former General Manager was the one who negotiated the contracts. He assumed that the difference was due to the fact that the latter company was asked to do more (for example monitoring the well fields as well as the plant) while Vanguard only monitored the plant. 3364. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about who owns both security companies. The AgPSCW responded that according to a copy of the Trade License, Mrs. Bernice Tobin is the owner of Leonards and Associates Security Company Limited. The information for Vanguard Security was not on hand at the time. 3365. The Minister for Health and Social Development sought the production cost for 1000 imperial gallons of water from the plant. The AgDWS responded that based on a three-month average production of 850,000 gallons per day the cost would be
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approximately $7.48 per thousand gallons. He stated that this cost could change using a different scenario with different output levels. 3366. The Member for the Third District questioned what potential revenue was created by the plant. 3367. The Minister for Communications and Works enquired if there were any written offers or attempts by private operators to obtain a contract with the Ministry to operate the plant, prior to Government taking it over. If so, he queried at what cost. The AgPSCW responded that upon review of the records at the Ministry such information was not gathered. 3368. The Minister for Communications and Works requested that this information be researched so that it can be made available later on in the day. 3369. The Member for the Third District requested once again that the Ministry produce the potential revenue that the plant has created. He stated that there was money saved since the plant came on stream. 3370. The Minister for Communications and Works suggested that such discussions be suspended as a serious study with extensive analysis would have to be conducted to determine potential revenue as potential revenue does not deal with facts. 3371. The AgDWS continued and stated that Cabinet took a decision to use Water and Sewerage Departments subhead assigned for operation and maintenance for both capital and operational expenditure. He stated that he suggested to officials that it may be better to separate the two for actual costing, but his recommendation was not heeded. Therefore, the figures that were presented to the Committee also include the payments made based on instructions that came to Water and Sewerage. 3372. The Minister for Health and Social Development queried where the instructions came from. The AgDWS responded that the instructions came from the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Communications and Works, both former and present.
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The AgPSCW added that she met this system in place where from time to time, the Ministry would ask the Water and Sewerage Department to make a payment under their subhead for Desalinated water based on a particular agreement at the time. She added that this arrangement was also based on a Cabinet decision made on April 6, 2010, that emergency payments be made from that subhead. 3373. The AgDWS confirmed that he received written communication that same day from the former Permanent Secretary stating that this subhead will be used for this purpose and that the AgDWS must comply. 3374. The Member for the Eighth asked, for clarity, if all the payments contained in the document that was presented to the Members came from Water and Sewerage Departments budget. The AgDWS responded in the affirmative. 3375. The Member for the Eighth then queried how the Department was able to operate in 2010 if the monies that were used for the aforementioned payments were not foreseen in their budget. The AgDWS disclosed that the subhead was overspent by $6.5 million in 2011 and they applied for a supplementary allocation which was approved. 3376. The Member for the Eighth then asked how much the Department currently owes water suppliers. The AgDWS responded that based on information compiled on January 9th, the total outstanding on water supply is $3.96 million. He added that the amount owed for Baughers Bay plant alone is approximately $1.5 million. 3377. The Minister for Education and Culture asked for clarification on who the directives came from to issue payments from Water and Sewerage Departments subhead. The AgDWS again replied that the instructions came from the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Communications and Works. The AgPSCW then added that the

instructions originally came through the Ministry of Finance from the Financial Secretary and were based on a Cabinet decision to use the desalinated water subhead for expenditure for the Baughers Bay plant.

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3378. The Minister for Education and Culture questioned if the AgDWS received explanatory reasons why certain expenditures were being made or if he was merely given directives. The AgDWS responded that written directives usually came in the form of a memorandum and a signed agreement would be attached. 3379. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired of the AgDWS if, as Accounting Officer, he read all the information that came to him. The AgDWS responded in the affirmative. 3380. The Minister for Education and Culture then asked if there were any occasions or times when the AgDWS read something that he questioned. The AgDWS stated that whenever the instructions were unclear or if the agreement was not signed properly, he would never approve payment. He then disclosed that he had a disagreement with the former Permanent Secretary who at one time issued verbal instructions for payment with which he refused to comply. He stated that this situation was resolved when lawful written instructions were submitted. 3381. The Minister for Education and Culture further questioned if the AgDWS was satisfied in his mind, as Accounting Officer, with issuing these payments based on the information received. The AgDWS responded in the affirmative. 3382. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if the AgDWS knew the owners for ISI. The AgDWS stated that he does not know who owns ISI. 3383. The Minister for Education and Culture then asked if the AgDWS ever met any representatives from the company before. The AgDWS responded that he did meet with ISI representatives during the period that they were here. He also disclosed that he knew of the companys previous work with Ocean Conversion and their work on the Jost Van Dyke water plant. 3384. The Minister for Education and Culture further enquired if these negotiations, in terms of the amount, came as part of the instructions. The AgDWS responded in the affirmative.
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3385. The Minister for Education and Culture then enquired of the AgDWS if he questioned the amount being charged at anytime. The AgDWS responded that he did not question the amounts being charged. 3386. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired of the AgDWS if that would have been an appropriate question to ask, as Accounting Officer. The AgDWS replied that once the contract is signed by the Premier, he simply complies with the instructions. 3387. The Minister for Education and Culture advised that even if the Premier issues instructions, the Accounting Officer should be satisfied in their mind that the numbers are correct and not merely rubberstamp whatever instructions are handed down. He added that the AgDWS sanctioned the figures without asking any questions. The AgDWS stated that in his mind, he was acting in accordance with legal instructions that came from the Permanent Secretary with a legal agreement attached that was signed by the appropriate Authorities and vetted by the Attorney General. 3388. The Member for the Third District stated that an Accounting Officer who is presented with a contract that was entered into by Government cannot question the contract itself as that officer has no control over it. He further stated that in terms of the request for payments, the Accounting Officer has a responsibility to ensure that the work was completed. 3389. The Minister for Education and Culture countered that if a contract comes down to an Accounting Officer and this officer properly carries out his duties, then he is mandated to read through that contract. He added that it is the officers responsibility to ensure that the work being performed correlates with the amount being charged. The AgDWS pointed out that they always ensure that the works are completed before issuing payment. He expressed that he acted lawfully in accordance with the

instructions and the duly signed agreements. 3390. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried that if a contract came to the AgDWS as a directive from the Minister and the AgDWS found something in it that
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he thought should be brought to the Ministers attention, if he would do so. The AgDWS replied in the affirmative. 3391. The Minister for Communications and Works expressed his uncertainty with what was actually being discussed. He stated that there were two matters in question which are whether the officer was carrying out Cabinets instructions to execute a contract or if he was evaluating and ensuring that in the execution of such a contract, that value was being provided for money to be paid. 3392. The Premier then stated that as far as he is aware, once a contract is signed by the particular Minister, an officer cannot change it. He added that the officers duty after that is to make sure that it is delivered according to the conditions of the contract. 3393. The Member for the Third District once again queried why the AgDWS was making payments from the subhead in question. The AgDWS reiterated that he received written communication from the then Permanent Secretary on April 6, 2010 with the subject heading, Emergency Payments from Head 550 Water and Sewerage Subhead 62600. 3394. The AgDWS proceeded to read the contents of the memorandum: Following my conversation with the Financial Secretary (Mr. Willock/Mr. Smith) of last week, on the abovementioned, I write to advise you of the payments to be made from the abovementioned subhead under your control. You are aware of the ongoing crisis that has resulted from the Ocean Conversion Limiteds acquisition of the ultimatum in the returning of the operations of the Baughers Bay Desalination Plant to Government. As a result, the Ministry and your Department exercised emergency options in order to ensure that the plant was up and running and that the customers had water. Subsequently, all bills associated with the production of the desalinated water from this plant and to address the emergency situation at the Baughers Bay plant are to be paid from Head 550 Subhead 62600, purchases of desalinated water. These payments are to include security services for the plant, payment for Water and Sewerage
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employees working overtime at the plant outside their normal duties (this must not be confused with any other normal overtime working hours for the Water and Sewerage Department employee with respect to Water and Sewerage works), any short term temporary agreement arranged if needed to run the plant and any other services approved by the Minister for Communications and Works. Please note that I will liaise with Minister to determine the durations and payments from the abovementioned vote. 3395. The AgPSCW then verified, once again, that those instructions originally came from the Ministry of Finance. 3396. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired about all the outstanding bills for water. The AgDWS responded that a compilation was done on January 19th and that $3,963,155.11 was owed to the four companies that provided water in 2011. 3397. The Member for the Eighth District asked if that figure includes the judgement from the court. The AgDWS replied in the negative. He noted that the figure is purely based on the invoices received for the production of water. 3398. The Member for the First District enquired of the AgDWS if he, as Accounting Officer, could categorically state that he has never signed off on anything dealing with payments unless he was comfortable that based on his professional knowledge and standards, that there was value for money. The AgDWS replied in the affirmative and further expounded that in view of the emergency situation and in view of restoring the water supply, he was convinced with the governments decision that they needed to act quickly. He also added that he was satisfied in his mind knowing that ISI had done work in the BVI in the past. 3399. The Member for the First District further questioned if the AgDWS ever signed off on a payment without being fully cognizant and if he could justify anything that he put his signature to, for value for money, being the technical and Accounting Officer. The AgDWS replied that he never simply signed but there was a procedure followed
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where a technical officer (the AgDDWS) or an accounts officer (the Head of Accounts) would check the payment request, depending on its nature, and advise him accordingly. He disclosed that he also did his own evaluation and he would

countersign after the technical officer or accounts officer had signed. Therefore, the process included double-checking. 3400. The Member for the First District then asked if the AgDWS was comfortable with the due process, the checks and balances, of getting the payments certified. The AgDWS responded in the affirmative. The AgDDWS added that the Department was not tasked with evaluating at that time. He stated that if they were to evaluate cost or value for money, this would take much time and they were operating under the premise that there was an emergency as the country was out of water. 3401. The Member for the First District enquired of the AgDDWS, based on his technical experience, if he would say that the costs presented were in the ballpark or in the region of what the market price is for such things. The AgDDWS stated that initially they had no specific knowledge of the desalination business in terms of procuring parts, therefore, he was not in a position of doing such an evaluation. He then noted that more recently, with the recommendation of purchasing parts which are now needed for the plant, Water and Sewerage officials are now evaluating the cost. In the initial stages, they had no time to do so. 3402. The Member for the First District further questioned if the materials or parts in question are in the ballpark in terms of what they are seeing now. The AgDDWS responded that at this time, they are dealing with purchasing parts when initially in 2010, they were dealing with parts, service, and other factors at the same time. He noted that it would not be accurate to compare the recently required parts to the works done in 2010. 3403. The Member for the First District then enquired of the AgDDWS that if he were to do a cost analysis based on what he knows now, if he would agree that the cost is within ballpark. The AgDDWS replied that he is at a disadvantage to respond to this
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question clearly at this time as the Water and Sewerage Department just took over operations in January. He indicated that it was premature to answer. 3404. The Member for the First District questioned if the previous response given suggests that the desalination industry is a highly technical one in which a person must be learned and that the expertise needed at this time is limited. The AgDDWS

responded that the Water and Sewerage Department is not experienced in running a desalination plant and so, they would be out of place to make an evaluation. He indicated that there are things that they are still learning at the moment. He added that they are trained engineers and can easily be trained on how the plant runs and also get a grasp of conducting some sort of analysis or cost comparison. He stated that at this time, they do not have the expertise, but they do have the capability of getting there. 3405. The Member for the First District questioned if the role of Aqua Design, who supposedly has the expertise in the industry, was to advise the government on value for money. The AgDDWS stated that at that time, Aqua Design had more knowledge than the Water and Sewerage Department in terms of plant operations. He disclosed that Aqua Design, along with another few companies, did an initial evaluation of the plan and then advised the government who in turn made a decision to have ISI complete the work and Aqua Design supported them in the refurbishment of the plant. He further commented that Aqua Designs role is slowly diminishing as Mr. Todman is becoming more capable of handling necessary repairs. 3406. The Member for the First District asked if Aqua Design came in to be the technical advisor for the Ministry given that the technical arm of government, which is the Water and Sewerage Department, had no experience or expertise in the field. The AgDDWS responded that Aqua Design was indeed one of the technical companies that advised the Ministry at that time. He added that there were more than two companies originally involved in the evaluation of the plant and the final two chosen were ISI and Aqua Design.
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3407. The AgDWS further stated that there were two companies that inspected the plant and submitted a report to advise on the status of the plant and that those reports are available at the Ministry. He noted that one company was not in favour of

refurbishment and suggested that a new plant be built while the other company suggested that a local company, which had experience, should be engaged. He stated that this is perhaps how Aqua Design was selected. He further added that Aqua Design was always consulted during major purchases and that they would work with them closely to decipher if prices were reasonable. They liaised specifically with Mr. Michael Matthew. 3408. The Member for the First District stated, for the record that due to the intricacies of the situation (of which he had no involvement), his line of questioning was geared towards the matter of procedure because he was concerned about some of the statements made earlier. He indicated that he now had an understanding that there was in fact a systematic approach that was used before authorising payments that the AgDWS was comfortable with. 3409. The Minister for Communications and Works then sought clarification on an earlier statement made by the AgDDWS that the Water and Sewerage Department may not have the expertise now but they have the capability to run the plant. The AgDDWS clarified that in terms of capability he was referring to having the understanding of how the plant runs and how it could be maintained. He noted that he was not referring to the Department being capable in terms of man-power because they are not capable of running the plant right now, in that regard. 3410. The Minister for Communications and Works went on to address an earlier statement made by the AgDWS that the Department is questioning some of the cost of the spare parts that are required and being procured through ISI, and that they are seeking to purchase elsewhere at a better cost. He asked for confirmation of this statement. The AgDWS verified that this was so.

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3411. The AgDWS indicated that on February 9, 2012 he received a similar memorandum from the Ministry asking that a purchase order be entered for $15,235.00 for two air condition units. He explained that he first contacted the AgDDWS to verify if he had any knowledge of the situation and if he agreed with the price quoted and that the AgDDWS replied in the affirmative. He further stated that after due diligence was done the request was then forwarded to the Head of Accounts division for processing. The AgDWS emphasised that ultimately, he is the Accounting Manager and will ensure that due process is satisfied before carrying out any instructions received. 3412. The PSMCW offered apologies for arriving to the SFC meeting late. She stated that she was at a meeting with the Minister for Communications and Works. 3413. The PSMCW stated that she has document for Mr. Ray Georges previous contract and Vanguard Security. The contract was signed by Mr. Ray George on September 1st 2010. Salary at that time was paid at $65,000 per annum. His base salary was $5,416.67 per month. He was assigned as a Project Coordinator on special projects within the Ministry of Communications and Works on the Water Purchase Agreement. His duties included way leaves matters, liaising with the Attorney

General Chambers, responsible for the processes relating to any amendment to the Water Purchase Agreement and any other relevant matter related to that matter. He worked closely with the former Minister and sometimes liaises with the PSMCW as needed. The other duties were all general and related to that particular contract. 3414. The Member for the Third District asked about the date on the contract. 3415. The PSMCW stated that the date on the contract was 17th August 2010 and took effect on 1st September 2010. 3416. The Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian asked about the length of the contract. 3417. The PSMCW stated that the contract was for one (1) year and that it was the contract prior to the one she read earlier. !"#$%*!+%&'%"#$%

3418. The Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian asked if after that contract expired if Mr. George received another contract as Project Coordinator for the BiWater project. The PSMCW stated yes. 3419. The Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if after the contract as Project Coordinator for the BiWater project expired if he was giving another contract for the Baughers Bay Water Plant. 3420. The PSMCW stated that it was an additional area of responsibility that he was formally assigned to. 3421. The Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian asked if Mr. George had more than one contract. 3422. The PSMCW stated Mr. George had several contracts; one contract at time. 3423. The PSMCW stated that the scope of Mr. Georges work included: As Project Coordinator, he served as Project Coordinator on the Water Purchasing Agreement, way leaves matters, liaising with the Attorney General Chambers, responsible for the processes relating to any amendment to the Water Purchase Agreement and any other relevant matter related to that matter. 3424. The Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked when the next contract was after the previous one expired. 3425. The PSMCW stated that Mr. Georges next contract was one where he was assigned additional responsibility to serve as General Manager to the newly established Water Production Unit. 3426. The Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian asked what the salary for the contract was. 3427. The PSMCW stated that the salary was $7,083.33 per month.

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3428. The Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked about the duration of the contract. 3429. The PSMCW stated that the contract took effect from 2nd November 2011 for a two (2) year period. 3430. The Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if there were only two (2) contracts. 3431. The PSMCW stated that the two contracts were related to the Water Purchase Agreement. 3432. The Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if there were any other contracts outside of the aforementioned two (2) contracts and what they were for. 3433. The PSMCW stated yes, prior to the Water Service Agreement. One that took effect 11th August 2008 for a period of three months. The scope of the work was related to airlift services in the Territory; the focus was on the Terrance B. Lettsome Airport. 3434. The Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian asked how much was that contract. 3435. The PSMCW stated that the contract at the time was at the rate of $5,000.00. 3436. The Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian asked if there were any others. 3437. The PSMCW stated no, the records do not reflect any other contracts. 3438. The Territorial at Member the Archibald C. Christian asked, in addition to Mr. George, if there are any other persons in the Ministry that has contracts outside of their normal responsibilities. 3439. The Member for the Third District stated that the suggestion is that Mr. George had a contract outside of his normal responsibilities.

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3440. The PSMCW sought clarity from the Territorial at Large Member the Archibald C. Christian in regards to his question. 3441. The Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian asked if there is anyone in the Ministry that has contracts. From 29th March 2010 to 31st December 2011. 3442. The PSMCW stated that she previously mentioned about the employment contract for employees at the Baughers Bay plant, which would have falling in the time period that the Minister is referring to. In addition, the two (2) other contracts; one was for Jameel Georges (nothing to do with the Water Purchase Agreement). 3443. The Member for the Third District stated that the PSMCW must indicate what the contracts were for, because in this context of Water and Sewerage any names that are mentioned may be construed as being related to BiWater. 3444. The Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian asked if the other two contracts are a part of Water Purchase Agreement. The PSMCW stated no. 3445. The Member for the Third District asked if there is anyone currently employed on contract in the Ministry C&W and what they are. 3446. The PSMCW stated yes one contract for Special Projects Consultant in the amount of $96,000.00 and the person appointed is Mr. Claude Skelton-Cline. She further stated that she did not have the exact figure immediately available.; but will make the amount available to Members. 3447. The Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian asked if Mr. Aaron Mather is currently employed and what is his contract in relation to. 3448. The PSMCW stated that Mr. Aaron Mather is currently employed and his contract is in relations to Project Coordinator in the Ministry and he is assigned to the national sewerage project and operations under the supervision of the DPSMCW. Mr.

Mathers duties include coordinating all contracts on the East End Long Look sewerage project; participates in planning, reviewing, and designing of plans, !"#$%*&!%&'%"#$%

facilitates the issuance of contracts, generates relevant reports as requested by the Minister and reports on the status of projects that are linked to the sewerage programme on a regular basis. 3449. The Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian asked about the salary and duration of Mr. Mathers contract. 3450. The PSMCW stated that his contract, which took effect on 8th August 2011, is for a period of one year at the rate of $2,549.75 per annum less applicable statutory deductions. 3451. The Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian stated that his salary is low in comparison to the duties of the other contract holders. 3452. The Member for the Third District requested copies of the two previously mentioned contracts. 3453. The Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if there is a list of current contracts in the Ministry and all the contracts issued within the last four (4) years within the Ministry. 3454. The PSMCW stated that she could make the information available. She further sought clarity on whether the Member was seeking information in regards to Consultancies. 3455. The Member for the Second District stated yes, Consultancies and Special Projects. 3456. The Member for the Third District referred to the water production for the Baughers Bay plant from April 2010 to December 2011. He stated that he previously received an answer; however, he wanted to be absolutely clear and asked where the statistics were obtained from.

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3457. The DWS stated that there is a water monitoring programme in place at all the desalination plants where the meters are read at the end of the month by W&S Department staff. 3458. The Member for the Third District asked if the figures are corroborated with the General Manager who is no longer employed. 3459. The DWS stated that they did not get any data from the Managing Director at the time Mr. George although he gave reminders. There were times when the software had problem. However, he did not receive any data. 3460. The Member for the Third District asked if the Ministry could provide figures of the water productions of the plant as compiled by the General Manager. He was in the Ministry and the figures before him are not reflective of what he had seen before. 3461. The PSMCW stated that she made several attempts to get statistics directly from Mr. George. He did not provide her with copies of the information and it is not in the Ministry records. She requested it since she thought that that sort of date would be useful. 3462. The Member for the Eight District asked if the Members could be provided with the names of persons who still have access to the software. 3463. The PSMCW stated that she could attempt to get the requested information. 3464. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the Members are referring to the Manager as if he still exists and it needs to be differentiated. 3465. The Member for the Third District stated that he referred to the Manager who was fired, he does not know when he was fired, but he knew he was fired. 3466. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked about the exact date of the former Mangers termination.

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3467. The PSMCW stated that the services of Mr. Ray George were terminated in December 2011. She is unsure of the exact date; but could make it available to Members. 3468. The Minister for Education and Culture asked about the value of the annual salary for Mr. Ray George. 3469. The PSMCW stated that it was around $85,000 per annum ($7,083.33 per month) plus five percent (5%) gratuity. 3470. The Minister for Education and Culture asked how many contracts the former Manager had. 3471. The PSMCW stated that he had two (2) contracts that were directly linked to the Water Purchase Agreement. 3472. The Member for the Third District referred to the contracts that were linked to the Water Purchase Agreement and asked what was on the contract. 3473. The PSMCW stated that other related items on the scope of works. 3474. The Member for the Third District stated that there was a prior contract, the first contract, that dealt with specific items plus other duties assigned. 3475. The PSMCW stated that the first contract mostly dealt with the Airport. 3476. The Member for the Third District asked if the contract had any other duties assigned. 3477. The PSMCW asked if she should go over the duties for the benefit of the Members since Mr. George had so many contracts. 3478. The Member for the Third District stated that she should go over them. 3479. The PSMCW stated that the first contract was entered into on 11th August 2008 with the former acting PSMCW John Samuel. In the scope of work, Mr. George was
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contracted by the MC&W to focus specially and specifically on matters relating airlift and air services with primary focus on the Terrance B. Lettsome Airport as a primary getaway. His primary duties included establishing and maintaining contacts with relevant market stakeholders, he was expected to follow through with all contacts, research, compile and become conversant with technical information, evaluate existing conditions on airlift and air services in the Territory, analyze the data and maintain a working relationship with the BVI Airport Authority and any consultants, engage in the recruitment or establishment of direct airlift services in the Territory, develop appropriate tracking mechanism to measure and report on all matters that he was contracted for. 3480. The Member for the Third District asked if the contract included the normal provision that says any other duties assigned 3481. The PSMCW stated that prepare final reports and any other matters assigned accordingly. 3482. The Member for the Third District asked if the scope of work was not limited to that which was spelt out. 3483. The PSMCW stated that if one wants to take that last item for what its worth, she guess he could have been assigned any other matters. 3484. The Member for the Third Districted stated that he thinks that it was in 2008 that Bi Water came about. 3485. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that if the discussion is about Mr. Ray Georges contract that was solely for Bi Water, then it needs to be added to the expense sheet of the water agreement purchase. 3486. The PSMCW stated that Mr. Georges contract in September 2009, the scope of work varied. He was contracted by the Ministry to focus specially and specifically on matters relating to the execution of infrastructure development projects that were
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being pursued or undertaking by the Ministry. These duties may have been involved contract development and post contract follow-up. In addition to duties associated with infrastructure development projects, the Government representative had been assigned to assist with matters relating to relevant land and way leave matters relating to the MC&W. 3487. The PSMCW stated that Mr. George had several extensions to his contracts over the years from 2008. Between the times when he was awarded the first contract in 2008 to when he was awarded the contract in 2009, he would have had several extensions during that time. 3488. The Member for the Eighth District asked if Mr. George was a part of the Bi Water negotiating team. 3489. The PSCW stated that prior to her time; but the records show that he was a part of the negotiating team at some point. 3490. The Member for the Third District stated that the negotiating team for Bi Water is documented as a team that was established by Cabinet and Mr. George was not one of those members. 3491. The PSMCW stated that she must have misunderstood the Members question. 3492. The Member for the Eighth District asked if Mr. George was or was not a member of the Negotiating Team. 3493. The PSMCW stated that she is aware that he negotiated on behalf of the Government on matters related to Bi Water; but she stands to be corrected. 3494. The Member for the Third District asked if the PSMCW could confirm if Mr. George was or was not a member of the negotiating team. 3495. The PSMCW stated that, now that the Member refreshed her memory she can say that from what she has read, he may not have a member of that original team; but he
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worked closely with the Bi Water Officials representing the Ministry as a Consultant on matters relating to Bi Water. 3496. The Member for the Eight District asked if the PSMCW is indicating that Mr. George was not a member of the negotiating team. 3497. The PSMCW stated not to the best of her knowledge. 3498. The Member for the Third District stated that for the record Mr. George was not on the negotiating team for Bi Water. 3499. The Member for the Third District referred to the list of the monies that were paid out on the Baughers Bay plant and stated that he is trying to find out what the monies were paid for. He noted an expenditure of 2.7 million dollars in 2011 and stated that of the 2.7 million dollars he noted a $246,000 to Aqua Design. He asked if because there is a total figure of expense for 2010 if the entire figure was incurred in 2011. 3500. The PSMCW stated that figure represented expenses incurred before 2011. 3501. The Member for the Third District stated that he does not need to know when he only wanted to check to see what the expenditure is going forward. He asked if it is representative figure of what could be expected in the future. 3502. The DWS stated that it wont be the same rate; because it was the time when the plant was going through refurbishment. 3503. The Member for the Third District stated that 2011 has a $2.7million expenditure and he noted that $246,000 was for work done with Aqua as far back as 2010. If that amount is deducted from the $2.7million, can it be said that the expenditure for the plant going forward would be in the range of $2.3million. 3504. The DWS stated that they have to do the calculations and report back to the Committee.

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3505. The Member for the Third District stated that from the figures submitted on water production, he would like to see, attached to the figures, a dollar value if W&S was paying the plant for the water. 3506. The DWS stated that the Members request has been noted and will provide the information. 3507. The Member for the Third District asked how long will it take to be provided with the information. 3508. The Minister for Ministry of Communications and Works asked what is the information based on. 3509. The Member for the Third District stated water received. 3510. The Minister for Communications and Works asked if there is contract with someone for water received units. 3511. The Member for the Third District stated that he is simply asking for some figures. 3512. The Minister for of Communications and Works stated that this Committee is works on facts not on assumptions. 3513. The DWS stated that the information could only be provided base on reference or assumption because they did not purchase the water during the period. 3514. The Member for the Third District stated that base on the prevailing water rates he would like a figure representative of what this Government would have been paying for water. 3515. The DWS stated that he could provide the information and will indicate the basis on which the information is provided. 3516. The Member for the Third District stated that that is all he needed for the DWS to indicate how they arrived at the figures.
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3517. The DDWS stated that it would be an unfair situation to do an evaluation. The only way it could be done is if the other plants give their operating cost, which they havent done, in terms of getting a fair assessment because of the rate. Unless the Members could come up with a rate that they could use, it is not valid to do an evaluation if there is no basis. 3518. The Member for the Third District stated that the Government received 389 million gallons of water. 3519. The Territorial at Large Member asked if the Member for the Third District meant produced. 3520. The Member for the Third District stated that he meant received and produced. 3521. The Territorial Member, the Archibald C. Christian asked how it is possible to received and provide the water. 3522. The Member for the Third District stated that it is possible to do so since it is produced at the plant and receive it at the reservoir by the same Government. 3523. The Minister for Ministry of Communications and Works asked who sets the rate. 3524. The Member for the Third District stated that the Government must have a benchmark. 3525. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that the benchmark is what has been paid to Bi Water. It could be any benchmark; so the question remains what is the benchmark. The team is saying that an analysis must be done base on a number of variables. 3526. The Member for the Third District stated that the Government must have statistics in their possession that tells them, if they are shooting in the dark, spinning tops in mud or whistling in the wind when it comes to the feasibility of the plant. The figures are

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there and there must be at least three comparisons. He asked how easy was it for them to bring figures on expenditure. 3527. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that figures on expenditure are facts and they are being asked to make assumptions and the investigation is about assumption. He thinks the SFC is to investigate the activities for the last year and what will they be accounted for in the projected half of this year. 3528. The Member for the Third District stated that he did not think its an investigation; but an accumulation of facts. He came seeking information. 3529. The Member for the Fifth stated that she is confused and stated that based on what is being discussed about rates, how do we know which is the right rate to use or by what measure are we applying rates to a particular company. The Member further stated that she was not clear and was seeking clarification. 3530. The DWS stated that it depends on the quantity purchased; the higher the quantity the lower the rate. It also differs from plant to plant depending on the quality and the technology used. So there are no uniform rates different companies are put in

different context; therefore it would be best if they are given a referenced figure to be used. 3531. The Member for the Fifth District sought clarity on whether he meant quality of the water. 3532. The DWS stated that quality differs from plant to plant. 3533. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that he would like the record to reflect that when negotiating a contract a number of things must be taking into consideration. The cost of raising funds, doing the project, projected revenue and investments are evaluated differently base on the contractual years. He feels it is subjective to pull a rate out of a hat without knowing what is involved; therefore it is unfair to the panel to produce rates that does not stipulate what the variables are.
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3534. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that to add to what the Member is saying, there are other costs that must be included in the raw numbers. He asked for the names of the water companies in the Territory, the rates for producing the water, the length of the contracts and any particulars of the contracts that is helpful. 3535. The DWS stated that he would provide the information that is available and what is not available he would subsequently provide. He further stated that Ocean Conversion Limited agreement signed 4th March 2010 and expires on 4th March 2017. The rate changes from month to month. 3536. The Minister for Health and Social Development sought clarity on is meant by the rate changes from month to month. 3537. The DDWS stated that within the cost structure there is a base rate which a company starts at (certainty rate) and then there is a variable that is affected by inflation, fuel surcharge and electricity. There are a lot of unknowns; but the aforementioned is only what is known at the moment. 3538. The DWS stated that the rate before them for the Bar plant is $21.13 the production is 580,000; BVI High School $9.10; Sea Cows Bay $18.97; Capoons Bay $29.15 205,000 gallons per day; Handsome Bay $23.12 236,000 per day; North Sound $21.68 44,000 gallons per day; Little Harbour $35.82; Anegada $32.89. The

Anegada plant is the smallest with the capacity of 22,000 per gallon per day and the Jost Van Dyke plant 25,000 gallons per day. The smaller the plant, the higher the cost. 3539. The Member for the Third District sought clarity and explanation on the Capoons Bay plant. 3540. The DWS stated that that is the figure he has before him at this time.

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3541. The Minister for Communications and Works suggested that the PSMCW research the information to subsequently present to the Committee. 3542. The PSMCW stated that she has information on Vanguard Security. The owner Vanguard Securities and Supplies Limited is Mr. Bryan S. Penn. He had a contract to provide security services for the Baughers Bay plant. The commencement date was 29th March 2010 at the rate of $6,588 per month for a period of six months. 3543. The Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked about the contract for Leonard Security Services in the amount of $8,000 per month for the period of 1st July 2011 to December 31st 2011. 3544. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked what is being guarded since the plant has someone working twenty-four hours a day. 3545. The PSMCW stated that someone is physically there twenty-four hours per day. The last contract for Leonards Security was to provide security service on a twenty-four hour shift on the premises. 3546. The Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if the contract for Vanguard was for the same duties. The PSMCW stated yes. 3547. The Territorial Member Mr. Archibald C. Christian if both firms were employed to do the same thing. The PSMCW stated yes. 3548. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if the DWS would not be interested in the entire water supply in the Territory. 3549. The DWS stated that the plants are privately owned. 3550. The Minister for Ministry of Health and Social Development asked the DWS if he would not be interested in the security of the entire water supply of the Territory.

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3551. The DWS stated that to his knowledge he is unsure if there is security; if there is security at the plants the Ministry would need to get the information. They are concern about the water plants security, they requested proper fencing. 3552. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if the Water and Sewerage compound has security. The DWS stated no. 3553. The Minister for Natural Resources asked what was the need for all this security. 3554. The Minister Health and Social Development asked if the former Minister for the Ministry of Communications and Works could shed some light on the matter. 3555. The Member for the Third District stated that the whole situation around that plant was not the most congenial of atmospheres. The Government didnt know anything about the water Plant as it was, in taking possession of the Water Plant the first thing was to ensure that what they had was protected as best they could. 3556. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if the previous owners could have helped. 3557. The Member for the Third District stated that he didnt know if that was a consideration by the owners. The best thing was to have a security company protect the compound; however that did not work too well because people were able to take things from the compound. 3558. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that if after two years the Department should know what things are not necessary. 3559. The Member for the Third District stated that it is a decision for the Government to make. 3560. The Minister Communications and Works referred to Subhead 62600-Purchasing of Desalinated Water and noted that 16 million was purchased in 2010; spent 9.3 million in 2011 whereas they were budgeting for 7.6 million. He further stated that it
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is the Subhead where the refurbishing of the plant was done and asked how much of those two figures was water payments and how much refurbishment and repairing of the plant. 3561. The DWS stated that he has taken note of the H Ministers question and will subsequently return with the information. He is trying to get, as realistic as possible, the figure of operating the plant. 3562. The Member for the Third District stated the figure is not correct, it reflects 2010 when the plant was rebuilt. 3563. The Minister for Communications and Works asked if the Ministry of Finance could tell him what is their record of expenditure of that plant from that date to present. 3564. The FS sought clarity on whether the Minister is seeking financial information from inception to present. 3565. The Minister for Communications and Works answered yes. 3566. The FS asked to provide the information at the next sitting of the SFC to ensure correctness. 3567. The PSMCW stated that if they are on the subject of Bi Water she would like to clarify a few statements for the record. When the SFC met on Thursday 9th February 2012 the Minister for the Ministry of Health and Social Development specifically asked questions in regards to land issues at the Paraquita Bay sites where Bi Water has its operations. She recalled stating that there were issues surrounding the land with the sewerage treatment plant; she didnt think she was specific enough and asked if the record could be corrected to reflect the statement she was about to make. 3568. The Member for the Third District stated that before she clarifies the SFC would like to know what the statement was before.

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3569. The PSMW stated that she think she said that there were land issues surrounding the location of the treatment plant and thought she needed to explain a little more but didnt do it at that time. She wanted the record to reflect the following statement: It is a requirement under the Water Purchase Agreement for Government to allocate land for the Paraquita Bay sewerage treatment plant; but so far no site has been established and it is something that must be agreed to. 3570. The Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if no site has been established. 3571. The PSMCW stated that the Government should allocate land for that; but so far that has not been done under the current agreement. 3572. The Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if Bi Water is currently encroaching/squatting on the Paraquita Bay property. 3573. The PSMCW stated clarified that only the water treatment plant and not the osmosis plant. 3574. The Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if a site has been identified. The PSMCW stated no. 3575. The Member for the Third District stated that the question is very pertinent and stated that he would like to see the site plan, which exists, for that development. 3576. The DWS stated that the site was identified; but not official communication was not sent to BI Water. The site is on the Northside of the plant in Paraquita Bay, there is a Government lean; but under the requirement the Government has to issue the letter and that formality is not completed. 3577. The Member for the Third District stated that he would like to see Bi Waters site plan that includes a water treatment plant. It exists and the Ministry has it. 3578. The Member for the Eighth District asked if the information was received from the Bi Water officials. The PSMCW stated yes.
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3579. The Member for the Eighth District asked why Bi Water official is giving this information. He also asked if there isnt anything that dictates what should happen. 3580. The PSMCW stated that they do have the Water Purchase Agreement 3581. The DWS stated that discussions took place with Bi Water and the team the Ministry. The former Coordinator Mr. Ray George was dealing with those issues and to is knowledge that is why the site had been agreed by the then Project Coordinator and the then Minister. Bi Water did not start the construction until an official letter was issued from the Ministry about that particular lean. 3582. The Member for the Eighth District asked if once the letter is issued if Bi Water is obligated to start the construction of the water treatment plant. The DWS stated yes. 3583. The Member for the Third District requested to see the site plans for the same water plant and the sewerage treatment plant that were approved at the same time. 3584. The Member for the Eighth District asked if the land for the sewerage treatment plant would be controlled Bi Water or the Governments remit. 3585. The DWS stated that to the best of his knowledge Bi Water does not have the responsibility to operate and maintain the sewerage treatment plant; therefore, one will assume that they will construct the plant and handover the plant to W&S Department. The operation and maintenance is not in Bi Waters contract so unless there is another vendor the W&S Department could maintain the plant. 3586. The PSMCW stated that she has another correction to make that is related to the Ministry files. The Minister for Education and Culture specifically asked about her knowledge of files in the Ministry on Bi Water matters and asked if she had access to the files. She further stated that she responded yes; but what she did not say was that she had access to the information that was available on the files at the time. She also needed to go on to say that around November she asked the then Consultant in the Ministry to turn over any additional files that he may have had on Bi Water and he
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submitted four volumes that were in a manila folder and that was information that she was able to have access to from 14th November. She assumed the acting position of PSMCW in September 2010. 3587. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if she only had access to the Bi Water files in November. 3588. The PSMCW stated that there were files in the Ministry proper that had Bi Water information that she had access to; she later found out that there were additional files that existed that the then Consultant held when she asked if he hand information he turned over the volume. 3589. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if, as the Accounting Officer, she didnt have the full picture. 3590. The PSMCW stated that she thought she had and later found out that she did not have the full picture. 3591. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if that the former Consultant had files and information that she did not have. The PSMCW stated that is correct. 3592. The PSMCW further stated that she implemented a system in regards to records where she would have access to everything. She sees information first and where Bi Water is concerned, the DWS was the employers representative and did a good job of keeping records that he turned over to her. She is now the Ministrys

representative on Bi Water matters and all information flows through her. 3593. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if there are other Consultants in the Ministry. The PSMCW stated yes. 3594. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if the Consultants report to her. The PSMCW stated yes.

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3595. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that the fact that she did not have access to Bi-Water files before. Could it be because she jumped into the position of PSMCW at a time when the Ministry was in crisis mode. He asked if it was a deliberate attempt for her not to see the records or is it because of the situation that occurs. 3596. The PSMCW stated that yes at the point when she entered the Ministry it was turbulent and the Minister at the time assured her that he would assist as much as he could on Bi Water and the Baughers Bay Plant. Where the former Consultant is concerned she thought when she was settled she would have been informed more on information on Bi Water that he received. He may have disseminated information to the former Minister directly without her involvement. She felt that as the PS she needed to be in the know and she wouldnt be faced with certain situations that she was faced with today. 3597. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if she told the former Minister that she was not getting information from the former Consultant. 3598. The PSMCW stated yes, she thought that given the nature and personality of the former Consultant he was very protective of information and maybe that was a reason why he needed to share information with as few people as possible. 3599. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if the former Consultant was under instructions. 3600. The PSMCW stated that the consultant did indicate to her that he was under instructions from the former Minister that he reported directly to him. 3601. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that he hopes that the Consultants currently employed in the Ministry will conduct their affairs differently. 3602. The Member for the Third District referred to the Constitution as to who is responsible for the administration of the departments. The Minister is responsible for
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the administration of the Ministry and Departments and when the PSMCW came to the Ministry that project was well on its way. Both former Permanent Secretaries at the Ministry were involved in the project so much so that they served as a member of the negotiation team. The former Minister knew that the volume and nature of the projects were excessive and the PSMCW was involved in other projects which she had to do hands on such as the Central Administration Complex and road traffic matters. We must also keep in mind that the tenure of this PS was day to day given that the substantive holder of the post was on leave. 3603. The Minister for Education and Culture asked if a Minister could decide what he tells an Accounting Officer based on the work load. 3604. The Member for the Third District stated that the Minister is responsible for the subjects. 3605. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that the Minister is not the Accounting Officer. 3606. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that he would be absent for the next few days and the Manager of the Bi Water shared information with him that he would like to share with the Committee. He will pass them on to the PS to report them at the right time. 3607. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if the Minister for the Ministry of Communications and Works would not be in attendance at the next SFC meeting on 16th February 2012 and if the PSMCW and the DWS are free to answer any questions. 3608. The Member for the Second District asked when the Minster would be back because he recommends that he deferred the W&S Department until the Minster returns.

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3609. The Member for the Third District stated that the concept that the Member has on the Accounting Officer is flawed; and that person could be designated by the Minister of Finance and it doesnt necessarily have to be the Permanent Secretary. Subhead 62600 Purchase of Desalinated Water 3610. The Minister for Communications and Works reminded Members that the day would start with BiWater. 3611. The Member for the Third District noted that the AgPSMCW stated that more files were received after first believing she had all the files regarding BiWater. The Member for the Third District further requested if the AgPSMCW had all the files for BiWater. The AgPSMCW replied that she believes she has all the files. 3612. The Member for the Third District asked when the second set of files was received. The AgPSMCW stated they were received 14 November, 2011. 3613. The Member for the Third District requested that the PSMCS disclose from whence the files came. The AgPSMCW stated that the files were received from Mr. Ray George. 3614. The Member for the Third District requested that the PSMCS confirm that Mr. Ray George gave her the files. The AgPSMCW replied affirmative. She added that Mr. Ray George was called to a meeting and brought the files with him. 3615. The Member for the Third District asked the AgPSMCW who the files belonged to. The AgPSMCW answered that Mr. Ray George told her that the set brought were from the files the Employees Representations (Mr. Kerof Ag. DWS) kept in his office. 3616. The Member for the Third District asked that the AgPSMCW confirm that they were not Mr. Ray Georges files but instead the files of the Employers Representative (Mr. Kerof AgDWS). The AgPSMCW confirmed the Member for the Third Districts speculation.
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3617. The Member for the Third District asked if the AgPSMCW checked the files against the files that were received from Mr. Ray George previously. 3618. The AgPSMCW replied that Mr. Ray George never gave her a set of files that were from his personal copies. The AgPSMCW reiterated that the set submitted were from the Employers Representative. 3619. The Member for the Third District asked the AgPSMCW who gave her the files she received previously. The AgPSMCW replied that she was referring to those that were kept in the Ministry of Communications and Works (MCW) file system. 3620. The Member for the Third District enquired if the AgPSMCW compared the files from Mr. Ray George to the files in the MCW. The AgPSMCW replied that she had. 3621. The Member for the Third District asked if there where duplicates. The AgPSMCW replied that there were except for one or two reports from BiWater. The Employers Representatives files also included emails correspondence that would be in the MCW files. There were not too many duplicates. 3622. The Member for the Third District asked where the files that were on the MCWs files were. The AgPSMCW stated that she met them with the MCWs files in the general cabinet. 3623. The Member for the Third District asked if the AgPSMCW had access to files all the time. The AgPSMCW replied affirmatively. 3624. The Premier enquired to the relation of the line of questions from The Member for the Third District to the discussion of budget. He further enquired if the line of question was relevant to how monies were spent and if the line of question was something that a special sub-committee of The House needs to looks into. 3625. The Member for the Third District stated that he had a conversation with the Leader of the Opposition, and it was about the exact same thing where Members wanted to query what happen over the previous four years. The Member for the Third stated !"#$%*(!%&'%"#$%

that the Members are checking everything except for what is in the budget. He added that the line of questions resumed from the previous day with BiWater. He stated that there were statements made on record and the record needs to be corrected. The Member of the Third agreed that the Members should be dealing with matters pertaining to the 2012 budget, however if the incorrect statements needed to be challenged for the record, he was prepared to do just that. 3626. The Member for the Third asked that the AgPSMCW confirm that she had access to the files that were in the MCW and that she would have known the information on those file. The AgPSMCW replied that she would have and strives to acquaint herself as much as possible. 3627. The Member for the Third District asked if the AgPSMCW always had access to the water purchase agreement between the Government and BiWater. The AgPSMCW relied: yes. 3628. The Member for the Third District asked if the AgPSMCW always had access to the Novation Agreement as well. The AgPSMCW again replied: yes. 3629. The Member for the Third District asked if the AgPSMCW was aware that for a period of approximately a year, the Premiers Office (PO)/Ministry of Finance (MoF) controlled the project. The AgPSMCW replied that it may have been before her time in the MCW. 3630. The Member for the Third District stated that the point he was attempting to make was that there are files the AgPSMCW may need from the PO/MoF. He enquired if the AgPSMCW received regular monthly reports on the project from the Employers Representative. 3631. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that he was not aware that the project was management from the premiers office for a year at some point. He added that the files that are not in the MCW should be reviewed.
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3632. The Member for the Third District stated that the AgPSMCW should review files that are in the PO/MoF and the Ministry of Finance (MoF). He also enquired if the Premier dealt with the Novation Agreement? The AgPSMCW replied yes. 3633. The Member for the Third District continued with the statement by adding that it was the Premier who took the water purchase agreement to Cabinet. He recommended that the AgPSMCW search for files throughout the different Ministries/Offices he mentioned. 3634. The Member for the Third District added that the Employers Representative had specific roles to play as stipulated in the agreement. If it is the belief that the Employers Representative was responsible for the project, it was not true. Employers Representative was to deal with the execution of the agreement as it relates to construction or execution of the project. The Member for the Third District suggested that the AgPSMCW work with the Employers Representative to obtain information. The AgPSMCW stated that she has been dealing with the Employers Representative on a regular basis since November, 2011. 3635. The Member for the Third District enquired if the AgPSMCW was apprised on all the reports, records, progress, etc. 3636. The Minister for Communication and Works asked the AgPSMCW to confirm that she has been working with the Employers Representative since November, 2011. The AgPSMCW confirmed that it has been on a regular basis since November, 2011. 3637. The Member for the Third District stated that the AgDWS acted as the Employers Representative and the matter was not settled because there was some information the Employers Representative was supposed to provide to the former Minister. He enquired if the situation had been rectified: compensation for the duties performed as Employers Representative. 3638. The Member for the Third District added that it was stated that the arrangement was honored to pay the Employers Representative. He corrected the record by stating !"#$%*('%&'%"#$%

that it wasnt concluded. The agreement states that it is a requirement that the employer appoints an individual to be referred to as the Employer Representative. This is the person the company will deal with in matters related to the execution of the construction of the project. The AgDWS was appointed such because this process was new to then Minister, he did not know how to deal with it as far as remuneration was concerned. The then Minister requested that the AgDWS assist the process by submitting a proposal with the fees and it was never received. There were matters that were of higher priority and until the AgDWS submitted his proposal, the matter remained unresolved. 3639. The AgPSMCW noted that the last proposal was submitted by AgDWS 2 February, 2012, where the AgDWS was following up regarding his request for compensation. The AgDWS requested approximately $55,000 for services rendered 15 July, 2010 to 18 November, 2011. 3640. The Member for the Eighth District asked that the AgPSMCW describe the scope for the Employers Representatives job for BiWater. 3641. AgDWS answered returned to The Member for the Third District (as the previous Minister for Communications and Works) 23August, 2011. He read from his

statement that he was officially assigned duties as the Employers Representative on the BiWater Purchase Agreement effective 25 July, 2010 as per the letter received dated 22 July, 2010. Based on discussions with the previous Premier, PSMCW, and Minister for Communication and Works, it was agreed that an appropriate offer of monthly compensation would be made to the AgDWS for consideration and acceptance for the performance of the additional duties. The AgDWS continued that he never received an appointment letter although the previous Minister for Communication and Works and the PSMCW instructed him to begin working and he started the same day. The AgDWS stated that his understanding was clear. He continued that he did not ask for additional money and claim but was told by the former Premier in the House of Assembly that he was holding two full time jobs. The
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decision was to separate the two. He would sit in the MCW full time and the MCW would find someone else to work full time as AgDWS. He is not sure what happened to that decision, but two months later, the additional roles were assigned to him after it was stated that it was two full time jobs. He reported that he was also told by the then Premier and PSMCW that he would receive an appropriate letter. He continued to ask for a letter allowing the MCW the opportunity to follow through. 3642. The AgDWS read from his letter that he continued to provide the additional services for more than one year. He continued reading that he would greatly appreciate the MCWs attention to give him an appropriate monthly allowance in payment effective 15 July, 2010. He added that he didnt send a figure because he thought it was

appropriate that the then Premier, Minister for Communication and Works and PSMCW decide because he did not know how to work it out. Up to this point, he was never asked for figures. He stated that it was not that he wanted money for the additional duties but he performed his duties without any complaints from public, stakeholders, the Premier, the Minister for Communication and Works, or the PSMCW. He concluded that he performed all duties to his full confidence. He has

previously held those type roles in the past, is quite capable technically, and all technical issues have been dealt with to the satisfaction of both roles. 3643. As is in Section 2.3, the scope of work is clearly defined and shows that it is a full time job. There were concerns that the then Minister for Communication and Works had and wanted to review the AgDWS performance for two months before the role will become permanent for the AgDWS. 3644. The Minister for Communications and Works suggested that although there was a letter received this month from the AgDWS, it was unfortunate that an agreement was made before. When the AgDWS spoke to the Minister for Communication and Works in late November-early December, he requested documentation from AgDWS in hopes of determining what the previous administration offered or agreed to. There was nothing to present and nothing for the Minister for Communication and Works to
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base his decision on. Now that the letter has been received from the AgDWS, the MCW will look how to address the letter going forward. The MCW will discuss the ramifications including discussions with the Department of Human Resources (HR) and MOF because the AgDWS is a permanent employee. 3645. AgDWS stated that Minister for Communication and Works has been very amicable throughout this process since becoming the minister for MCW. He concluded that at no time has he ever pressured anyone to pay him. A simple appreciation will be appreciated by him. He feels that no one should be concerned about the quantity of money and what is paid to him. 3646. The Member for the Eighth District interjected that he still needed to understand the scope of what was needed to be done as the Employers Representative. He noted that the AgDWS performed two full time jobs for 16 months. He enquired if the AgDWS was at the time was performing his duty as AgDWS at the time he was the Employers Representative. 3647. AgDWS replied that he fulfilled his responsibilities completely for both jobs. He added that he often reported to work early and stayed late to ensure work was completed. He also took work home to fulfill his obligations. No stakeholder of BiWater or the Government complained that he was not performing his roles successfully. He reiterated that the scope of work is clearly defined in Section 3 of the contract. 3648. The Member for the Third District provided insight to the Governments responsibility under the agreement. The Employers Representative was there to ensure that the govt interest was protected because after 16 years of running the plant, it is to be turned over to the Government in good working conditions and the intent of the Employers Representative is to make sure that the material and equipment used meet specifications. Employers Representative should check all piping, etc. for the system with the help of maybe an engineering firm who would
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have been engaged to analyse and review the systems and ensure that they are purchased and installed to specifications. 3649. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District asked how the Members will receive a copy of the agreement. 3650. The Member for the Third District stated that it was a public document that was laid on the Table of this House. 3651. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that the MCW will share with the Members the scope from the agreement. 3652. The Member for the Eighth District asked if the scope of work and the Employers Representative should not have been handled by a team because of the magnitude and the Governments responsibility of the project. He added that it should have not been left to someone who has a full time job because the person cannot be effective. The same mistake should not be made again. 3653. The Member for the Third District reiterated that the intent was for the Employers Representative to engage where necessary, a firm to review the systems and to ensure that they were installed according to the specifications. 3654. The Member for the Eighth District stated that despite the fact that professionals are needed externally, the Employers Representatives should have consisted of a team to manage the process versus an individual who happens to have a full time job. 3655. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that he would take the Member of the Eight District advisement under consideration going forward. 3656. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked which subhead would be used if AgDWS is paid based on services rendered in the past. 3657. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District answered that the FS stated upon receiving the request formerly, it would be paid against personal emoluments.
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3658. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian noted that it was mentioned that if any payments were made to consultants in connection with the BiWater project, the monies would not come from WS subheads but from consultancy under the MCW. He asked if the MCW made any payment to BiWater under consultancy. The AgPSMCW replied that there were none. 3659. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if the Members would have the opportunity to return to the MCW budgets before SFCs completion. 3660. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District replied that a recall can be discussed. 3661. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if the MCW had a list of consultants that will be utilized for the year. The AgPSMCW replied that the MCW did. 3662. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if the AgPSMCW knew who those consultants were. The Minister for Communications and Works replied that the MCS is reevaluating how the MCW will be managed for the year. The list of consultants has not been created. As the year goes on necessary appoints or de-appointments will be made as needed. The AgPSMCW stated that she misunderstood the questions stating that she thought Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian meant consultants the MCS already had. She corrected herself by saying no. 3663. The Member for the Third District asked how the project was going there and if they were receiving monthly reports. 3664. The Minster for Communication and Works requested the AgPSMCW provide the Members with a brief outline. Reports can be submitted at a later date. 3665. The AgPSMCW reported that presently the Paraquita Bay operation is up and running in terms of the work the BiWater team is doing. Regarding the construction of the reverse osmosis plant, the BiWater team has established a staging area for the works that are being conducted. The process of laying pipes has begun from Paraquita Bay
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to Sabbath Hill reservoir.

A new reservoir has been put in place at Sabbath Hill

because the current one is leaking somewhat heavily. The BiWater team is at the stage where they desire to start transferring connections to the tank at Sabbath Hill. There is an issue at Paraquita Bay with the water that would service Sabbath Hill reservoir. The first proposal from BiWater was to obtain water via boreholes, but BiWater has reported over the last two weeks that there is not sufficient water that is available if that mode of obtaining water is used. BiWater is now proposing a direct sea intact. Pipes will have to be laid under the Paraquita Bay Lagoon which may lead to environmental studies. BiWater said the Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) studies should approve this method. MCW would have to be satisfied as well that this option would not disturb the environment. BiWater is currently seeking approvals to use this alternative mode of obtaining water. BiWater would also need permission to access properties via HLSCC. 3666. The AgPSMCW added that if BiWater is going to be able to deliver water by the end of the year, the power supply that serves Paraquita Bay area will need to be upgraded. There have been dialogues between BiWater and BVIEC to make sure that the upgrades happen. The WSD has written to the MCW several times regarding the need to have requisite capacity to receive the water once it starts flowing. One issue that has been on-going is that the pipe networks that serve the Sabbath Hill to Fort Hill are not adequate. 3667. The AgPSMCW concluded that for Road Town, the Burt Hill site has been filled. There are minor land issues that need to be sorted out. BiWaters priority is working on the water to ensure water is available at the time as agreed in their contract. Regarding issues related to sewerage treatment sites, BiWater has completed a preliminary design for the Road Town pumping station. The sewerage treatment plant site at Paraquita Bay has issues that need to be sorted as well, but the focus for BiWater is getting the desalinated water to Sabbath Hill and the MCW has to be ready to receive it at that time as well.

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3668. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District asked the AgPSMCW if the piping at Sabbath Hill was the responsibility of the Government. The AgPSMCW replied that it is. 3669. The AgDWS stated that there is work that needs to be completed urgently to ensure that the WSD is prepared to accept the water and distribute it to the distribution system. The WSD has identified five areas that were discussed and agreed in a strategic meeting in the MCW and since then WSD has been working on it to (inaudible). Some of the works can be completed within WSD. WSD has provided quotations, new initiatives, and have included all the components in the 2012 budget. The most important and first component is to have the water to start pumping from Baughers Bay to Sabbath Hill which would take the water, via gravity, to the Fort Hill reservoir and then distributed. This process has its own challenges. All of the details have been reported. 3670. From Chalwell, lines have to be laid up Hannah Hill to allow for supply flexibility so that Hannah Hill is working as well to be used to enhance the supply via the additional water. The (inaudible) lines along Ridge Road need to be upgraded to hold the amount of water. There is also a proposal to construct two new reservoirs: Sage Mountain and in the area of Great Mountain. 3671. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District asked if the report was submitted before. AgDWS replied yes. 3672. The Minister for Communication and Works stated that he has been having regular briefings with Mr. Richard Smith who is the local Director of Operations for BiWater development. There are a number of issues to be concerned about. There was an impression that the water would be sourced from wells on the 12 acres of land in Paraquita Bay. The Minster for Communication and Works stated that he was

surprised to hear from Mr. Smith, the previous week that the wells in Paraquita Bay were not yielding water. The Minster for Communication and Works added that Mr. Smith said that it was the plan of BiWater to use the wells and Mr. Smith was
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surprised they did not find water. The Minster for Communication and Works Mr. Smith if the wells were sounded before but did not recall the answer provided. 3673. The Member for the Second District stated that the information was provided over ten years ago. 3674. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that Mr. Smith reported that the wells did not have the yield that was needed and therefore his view is that it is their expense to take it out to sea. No additional monies were requested; only permission. Mr. Smith also reported that they would only have to advise the Government that they would go through the mangroves to get the water from the sea. The Minister for Communications and Works corrected Mr. Smith by directing him to go to TCP and make a planning application so that TCP could advise BiWater on what the requirements were. The process has been started. An EIA has to be completed. The Minister for Communications and Works advised Mr. Smith that TCP would direct him of the steps needed to complete an EIA. 3675. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that there is also a issues of traversing the pipes over the college grounds on the Marine side. Mr. Smith was advised to write to the Board of HLSCC to begin those discussions to get that authorization. BiWater would also need permission from the Government to run pipes under the Paraquita Road, as well. The Minister for Communications and Works does not foresee and issue with that. 3676. The Minister for Communications and Works raised another important issue that came up earlier in the year regarding the questions of BiWater raising the loan to pay for the development. Attorney, Hunte, appeared before the Committee to arrange a meeting with the Government and the BiWater Senior group for the UK to discuss the matter on whether the land at Paraquita Bay can be used as collateral. The senior BiWater Directors did not raise the issue. The issue of the loan in question was brought up last week because in December, 2011, Mr. Smith stated that the loan was
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in granted to BiWater BVI. The Minister for Communications and Works further stated that Mr. Smith should provide details on the loans. 3677. The Minister for Communications and Works quote from the 18th February, 2012, BiWater correspondence to the AgPSMCW and the Minister that BiWater Limited granted equity and loan facility of $45 million plus capitalized interest and financing costs to BiWater BVI PA Clause 13b.1- Loan Agreement Details). 3678. The Minister for Communications and Works said he asked Mr. Smith how could the loan be granted in 2011 when the government had not seen the agreement. The Government was supposed to have seen the agreement as the Government was to be a guarantor. 3679. The Member for the Third District stated that Government was not to be a guarantor of the loan. 3680. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that the agreement needs to be obtained. 3681. The Minister for Communications and Works said that the agreement needs to be obtained to cross reference how the loan connects to the agreement. He also read from the correspondence aforementioned that in accordance with the Water Purchase Agreement (WPA) dated 18 February, 2010, between the Government of the Virgin Islands and BiWater SA, we have prepared this letter to comply with disclosure requirements under Clause 13b.1 of the WPA as defined below. 3682. WPA Clause 13b.1 - the company shall provide the conditions of drawdown, that is the conditions which are attached to and need to be met prior to the drawdown of each part of the loan (the schedule of loan repayments and full details of the breakage clause are set out in the loan agreement to the employer for its approval prior to entry into the loan agreement. Such approval not to be unreasonably withheld or delayed having regard to the market conditions at the time.
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3683. As previously discussed and shown in the project structure below, BiWater BVI Limited (inaudible) registered in the BVI to undertake the project, has secured a loan facility of up to $45 million plus capitalized interest and commitment fee from BiWater Holdings Limited, [not BiWater, SA,] to finance the project. The relevant provisions of the loan agreement were submitted to the Government on or around when the WPA came into full force and effect on 20 July, 2011, but is attached below for ease of reference. 3684. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that he had never seen this before and considered that it may have been in the PO as suggested before by The Member for the Third District. He continued that he did not know the arrangements of the loan, the percentage of interest, or the implications. He stated that he believes that if any defaults happened, the Government is responsible to pay back the loan. 3685. The Member for the Third District replied that it was absolutely not true unless the current Government signed a new agreement with BiWater. 3686. The Minister for Communications and Works stated the current Government has not signed a new agreement with BiWater. 3687. The Minister for Health and Social Development recommended that the Minister for Communications and Works obtain a lawyer from the Attorney Generals Chamber (AGC) to interpret the WPA for the House. 3688. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that it should be as a matter of urgency. 3689. The Member for the Third District enquired about the reasoning for the legal opinion. 3690. The Minister for Health and Social Development answered that the opinion would determine if there was a contingency liability for the BiWater loan.

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3691. The FS commented that an accountant opinion was given on the contract and he suspected that it was tabled in the House. He further recommended that the members read through it. He stated that he did not agree with the final conclusion was. 3692. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that the normal guarantor of loans, the UK, has suggested that the current Government reflect a contingent liability in the budget for the $45 million dollar BiWater loan. He agreed that some legal advice was needed. He also admitted to not knowing what the accountant advice was, but the guarantor of the Governments loan has made the request to reflect the loan amount in the budget. He added that he UK would be ultimately responsible for the load if the Government defaults. 3693. The Member for the Third District stated that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) wrote to the former Premier stating that based on their understanding of the water purchase agreement with BiWater, there may appear to be a contingent liability and recommend that the Premier engage the services of an independence international financial report standard for an accounting opinion, which he did. If the agreement did represent a contingent liability, it should be accounted for in the budget. 3694. The Member for the Third District enquired about an earlier document referenced by the Minister for Communications and Works. 3695. The Minister for Communications and Works stated it reference the relevant provisions were submitted to the Government on or around 21 July, 2011. 3696. The Member for the Third District asked if that meant the loan was in negotiations at that time. The Minister for Communications and Works replied that it suggested that a loan was under negotiations. 3697. The Member for the Third District asked if a document was sent to the MCW. The Minister for Communications and Works stated he believed that a document was sent outlining the terms and conditions.
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3698. The Minister for Health and Social Development noted that The Member for the Third District stated that the project was managed by the PO/MoF at one point. 3699. The Member for the Third District said that the project was controlled by the PO/MoF when the Government was considering other possible options and was dealt with by the Premier and an officer. The same officer who worked with the Premier was also responsible for reports for Cabinet monthly. 3700. The Minister for Communications and Works replied that he would need to discover who the officer was who worked with the Premier. He also asked if it was the PO or MoF who dealt with the report that was submitted on a monthly basis to Cabinet. 3701. The FS replied that the MoF had nothing to do with the project, but he is aware that one officer in MoF submitted information to Cabinet monthly. 3702. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District requested that the FS elaborate on the topic. 3703. The FS stated that he was aware because the officer would show him the information. There was a reporting process where BiWater reported to a member in MOF. 3704. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked that the FS be provided with the name or post of the officer. The FS replied that Jeremiah Frett was involved with the reporting process as a Policy Analyst. 3705. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District asked if Mr. Frett did not report monthly to Cabinet via the MoF. The FS stated he was not aware that it was a function of the MoF. 3706. The Minister for Communications and Works asked if Mr. Frett was working in the MoF. The FS stated: yes.

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3707. The Minister for Communications and Works asked if Mr. Frett was assigned to the project by the Premier. The FS stated that he did not assign Mr. Frett to the project. He suspects the previous Minister for Finance or Cabinet did. He was not sure. 3708. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked how many sub-contracts have BiWater let and what were they for. There are several consultants to the Government for what BiWater did not do. 3709. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that BiWater claims that they have expended $12 million as of December, 2011. 3710. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked what were the contracts for, who were they let to, and what was the value of them. The AgPSMCW replied that she did not have it with her, but can research. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked that the AgPSMCW provide the information for the Members. 3711. The Member for the Third District stated that the MCW has nothing to do with BiWaters contracts. 3712. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that BiWater had a consultant for many works for the project. 3713. The Member for the Third District said he wanted to make it clear that BiWater is a private independent entity, whose only obligation to Government is to sell water as per the water purchase agreement. 3714. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if BiWater had a consultant. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that the information is in reports and will request that the AgPSMCW provide them. 3715. The Minister for Communications and Works continued by stating that he was given a tour of the Baughers Bay plant and asked BiWater when and how they would get to the sewerage side of the project landfill was taken from Sabbath Hill to fill land at Burt Point.
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3716. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that Mr. Smith reported that no sewerage project work would be started until monies have started to be collected from the water. 3717. The Member for the Third District asked if this was relevant to Road Town or East End. The Minister for Communications and Works replied that it was for both locations. AgDWS stated that BiWater is supposed obligated to finish the work within five months of land being made available in relation to Road Town. 3718. The Minister for Communications and Works reiterated that it was reported that there would be no expenditure on sewerage until monies have been begun to be collected from water. The AgDWS stated that the Minister for Communications and Works was correct except regarding Road Town. 3719. The Member for the Eighth District asked that it be confirmed that until water is received, the sewerage treatment for East End would not be started. AgDWS replied that unless BiWater changed their position, according to the agreement, BiWater is required to complete the work within five months from the date the location is identified. The land issue is the only holdup for the Road Town pumping station. 3720. The Member for the Eighth District asked if this is that what the contract states. The AgDWS stated that contract indicated the obligation. BiWater did submit the dates. 3721. The Member for the Eighth District asked the AgDWS if BiWater did they submit the dates. The AgDWS answered that BiWater could not add dates because they are unable to determine when the land will be available to them. BiWater indicated five months from the date obligating them. 3722. The Member for the Eighth District asked what is the status of the land in relation to the treatment plant in Paraquita Bay. The AgDWS the land has already been identified and agreements were made. Based on the advice for the location of the treatment land, it was discovered that it is Crown land located northeast of the present
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site.

Official communication needs to be sent to the MCW by the Employers

Representative confirming the arrangement. 3723. The Member for the Eight District asked when the plant would be installed and functional once the arrangement is confirmed. The AgDWS replied that when the dates were submitted, BiWater commenced works October, 2012. 3724. The Member for the Third District stated that he had made a request for the previously approved site plans that indicated where the sewerage treatment plant was approved to be in Paraquita Bay. 3725. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that he is not aware of any changes being made to the site of the Paraquita Bay sewerage treatment plant. 3726. The Member for the Third District stated that there were site proposals submitted and that site was previously approved. The AgDWS stated that the information will be

made available after reviewing the file because all the decisions were made by the Project Coordinator, Mr. Ray George. He added that the official communication He assured the

from the MCW may not have been made by Mr. Ray George. Members he will have them by Friday.

3727. The Member for the Third District stated that Friday was too late to produce the documentation because they were previously agreed to and the documents are on file. They exist and should be produced expeditiously. The AgPSMCW and AgDWS

stated that they would search for the file and hopefully produce it the next day. 3728. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that he would personally have serious reservations against BiWater using the 12 acres of land leased to them as collateral to secure their loan. He believes that BiWater should be in stronger

position as leverage for their loan without using lands in the Territory as collateral. 3729. The Member for the Third District stated he was not sure why the collateral thing was still on the table if BiWater had already given themselves a loan.
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61220 Electricity 3730. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if there were no other electrical charges except what is indicated. He further enquired if the particular amount for approximately $500,000 dollars was for the sewerage pump alone. 3731. The Budget Coordinator (BC) replied that funding will be for the electricity for the department and the water pumps. 61310 Replacement of Vehicles and Moveable Plant 3732. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked how many and what type of vehicles WSD will be replacing. The AgDWS replied that WSD planned to replace seven vehicles, including one truck 3733. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if they would be sourced locally. The AgDWS replied that WSD has requested new quotations for those that were submitted the previous year. They have been forwarded to the MCW. 62967 Rural Water Supplies 3734. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the areas covered under the subhead. The AgDDWS replied that the subhead was added when the Ridge Road area did not have water supply. The vote was added to provide water to rural areas. Along Ridge Road, there are areas called catchments that are filled via water trucks by WSD so that residence in the area that did not have access to potable water could utilize. The vote is primarily used for the outer islands especially in Jost Van Dyke which experiences water supply problems from time to time. It is also used as far as Anegada. 3735. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked about the type of catchments used. The AgDDWS replied that they are similar to cisterns because they are able to catch rain water. 3736. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked that the AgDDWS disclose the locations of catchments in the rural areas of Tortola. The AgDDWS stated that the !"#$%*#"%&'%"#$%

only two remaining functioning catchments are in the area of Low Hope (Long Trench area) and (inaudible). 3737. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District asked for the location of the catchments in the Long Trench area. The AgDDWS replied that it is near the water hole in the area far from the wall. 3738. The Member for the Eighth District enquired about the volume of water of the catchments. The AgDDWS replied that it is a very small amount; approximately 50, 000 gallons for both catchments combined. The structures are manmade, built from concrete, and have the shape of a cistern, but above ground. 62970 Maintenance of the Sewerage System Cane Garden Bay 3739. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked for the status of the sewerage system in Cane Garden Bay (CGB) and the maintenance requirements. The AgDDWS stated that it has been identified for upgrades for a number of years. The funds to upgrade the system have yet to be provided from WSD. The facility is currently operational. There are two officers who man the station daily. WSD is currently experiencing challenges with the station. 3740. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if the amount of $73, 100 as indicated is to cover the maintenance of the station only. The AgDDWS replied yes. 3741. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if the amounts to upgrade the system were submitted. The AgDDWS replied yes. 3742. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked for the amount. The AgDWS stated that (unable to determine most of it). The cost of the maintenance uses most of the subheads funds. The figure to upgrade the station is in the vicinity of $300,000. The amount was requested in the last 2-3 budgets. 3743. The Member for the First District stated that the plant lacks maintenance and reminded the AgDWS that Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if the
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line item could adequately cover the cost of maintenance. The AgDWS stated in the present condition, the station is not adequately running which compromises the quality. 3744. The Member for the First District asked what it would take to bring it back to the standard it was when it was first installed. The AgDWS replied that it is an outdated

system that is not used anymore. To replace the plant will be in the vicinity of $1 million. 3745. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated although the Government has its challenges, he was not happy with what he saw. He noted that the plant sits behind a primary school, is in one of the highly visited tourist areas in the Territory, and there are several residential buildings near the plant. If an initial amount of $300, 000 has been suggested to upgrade it, he would prefer that the plant be replaced. 62980 Unaccounted for Water 3746. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if this item was a leak detection program and how does the plan work. He further enquired if the WSD officers go out weekly, monthly, etc. to detect leaks or do the leaks spring and officers are dispatched accordingly. The AgDDWS replied the vote has been a concern for WSD for some

time regarding how best to use the funding. The WSD has requested additional persons to be dedicated to leak detection. Leak detection is very technical and requires high level, technical knowledge. The WSD is understaffed and lack

personnel to dedicate to leak detection program. 3747. The AgDDWS reported that BiWater should look into a program to deal with leak detection according to their contract. He also concerned that the program will not be carried on to ensure that water is maintained. The program was very lively in 1990s but due to loss of staff, it has died off. 3748. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if the WSD had leak detection equipment. The AgDDWS replied: yes.
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3749. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if the challenge is the personnel to operate the equipment. The AgDDWS replied: yes. There is lack of persons who can manage the specialized trucks. The AgDWS and the AgDDWS often manages the trucks themselves. 3750. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that he received calls from throughout the territory regarding no water supply. He requested that the AgDDWS identify a method of notifying WSD when plants not managed by WSD fail. The

AgDDWS stated that contractually there is no obligation in terms of the supplier informing WSD but valid efforts are made. In most cases WSD received calls from suppliers notifying them of issues. There are a few isolated cases the supplier did not inform WSD, but customer did notify them. Once feed is received, it is announced on the radio to indicate to customers that there are current water supply challenges. 3751. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stressed that the suppliers should inform WSD immediately if there are problems. He suggested that WSD make it mandatory that they receive notification from suppliers. There are residents in West End who

have not had water for a week and received no updates regarding the status. The AgDDWS stated that some reports of no water are actually are exaggerated. The WSD policy is that they attend to all water related problems within 24 hours. It entails working with the supplier or visiting homes where WSD have met some valves off for numerous reasons. 3752. The Member for the Third District stated that there is a hotline established at Water and Sewerage. He also asked the AgDDWS confirm this. The AgDDWS stated that there is a number: 468-5800. Customers can call this number for any water related problems. The only issue with this number is that it is manned only between the hours of 8:30am-4:30pm. 3753. The AgPSMCW stated Global Water Associates Limited signed two agreements on 19 September, 2006, to design, build and install at Paraquita Bay a 250 gallon water reclamation treatment plant valued at $2,680, 846.00.
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The second and related

agreement signed the same date was for the management and operation of the plant. To date this company (Trevor Grant and Douglas Regal) was not able to execute this contract and have threatened to take legal action since they were not able to deliver on their contractual obligation. The last of the two meeting was January, 2012, 3754. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked the AgPSMCW to confirm that they were not able to deliver. The AgPSMCW stated that that is what they told the MCW. 3755. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if Global Water Associates Limited were seeking to take legal actions. The AgPSMCW replied affirmatively. 3756. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that they wrote a letter to the MCW to attempt to work out arrangements before they sought legal guidance on the matter. The AgPSMCW stated that the company the company is willing to negotiate with the company although they were not able to deliver. 3757. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if Global Water Associated Limited where able to meet with the former Minister. The AgPSMCW replied that she had no knowledge of a meeting. 3758. The Member for the Third District asked if Global Water Associated Limited made a request. 3759. The Minister for Communications and Works and the AgPSMCW replied not to their knowledge. 3760. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that the ownership of Global Water Associated Limited has changed and asked to the AgPSMCW to disclose the new owners. The AgPSMCW stated that the new owners are Trevor Grant and Douglas Regal. 3761. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the previous signatories of the contract. .
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3762. The Member for the Third District stated that there was a plant bought by the Government and at the time of the last inventory, portions of the plant had yet to arrive in Tortola. The AgPSMCW stated that the agreement was signed by Charles G. Peterson. 3763. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that it has to do with the fact that there is a plant that is on site that was delivered, whether completed or not, that has been sitting in Paraquita Bay for many years. BiWater wants to review the plant to determine its usefulness. 3764. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District asked if it was installed by the previous government 3765. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that it was bought and has been sitting on location in a container. It was supposed to be installed under the contract with Global Water Associated Limited. 3766. The Member for the Third District asked where does the Government stand in the negotiations for the land for the pumping station at the roundabout in Road Town. 3767. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that two meetings were held with Mr. Colliston George indicating that the former Premier negotiated to buy the land for $1.5 million. The AgPSMCW was able to retrieve the file for this matter from the Premiers office. 3768. The Member for the Third District asked the AgPSMCW if she had correspondence indicating that the agreement was negotiated for $1.5 million for the purchase of the lease or there was a request for $1.5 Million which was being negotiated. The AgPSMCW replied that there is documentation that speaks to the matter. 3769. The Member for the Third District rephrased his question by asking if the Government agreed to pay the figure. The AgPSMCW answered that it does not say the Government agreed. The Minister for Communications and Works interjected that
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it was a request. He added that the owner made a request for $1.5 million for the property. 3770. The Member for the Third District stated that the file must have an appraisal of the property. 3771. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that he has not seen the files and based on the figures requested, he told Mr. George that it was not a priority of this Government and they will get back to him regarding their position. There was a brief discussion in the meeting regarding exchanging land, but Mr. George had no interest in that. He was only interested in being paid for the property, the Minister for Communications and Works concluded. 3772. The Member for the Eighth District asked if there was a process that WSD had in terms of pumping sewerage from homes. The AgDDWS replied that WSD does not provide such service for private homes with that equipment. Because of the cost and importance of the pump truck, rigorous maintenance of the pump truck is undertaken by WSD. There were personnel from the US on island during the session to go through the maintenance program. There was training in the afternoon after the SFC sessions with WSD regarding safety procedures. 3773. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked what happened to the old pump truck. The AgDDWS replied that it was auctioned off via procurement and was purchased by a private vendor. 3774. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District asked if the WSD never offered pump service for private usage. The AgDDWS stated that the intention was there, but WSD was not clear where to put the waste. This should be the

responsibility of the Ministry of Health and Social Development (MHSD) to provide a proper drying bed so that one day, the service can be rendered to the public.

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3775. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked the AgDDWS restate his statement in regards to the MHSD because MHSD does not own land. The AgDDWS clarified by stating that a site was identified by the Solid Waste Department (SWD) 3776. The AgDWS stated this is an extreme issue because there is no policy regarding the disposal of septic tank waste which is why there is indiscriminant dumping of sewerage. There is also no facility for the waste sludge to be discharged. These issues lead to the smell in Road Town. 3777. The Premier asked if the department would submit a proposal to the MCW to have the necessary regulations and policies put in place. The AgDDWS replied that it is in place 3778. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District thanked the panel for appearing before the Standing Finance Committee and for answering the questions raised by Members.

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HEAD 560 Present:

DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES

Mrs. Arlene Smith-Thompson Ms. Lorna Christopher Mrs. Margaret Jones-Greene

Ag. Permanent Secretary, MCW Commissioner of Motor Vehicles (CMV) Finance and Planning Officer (FPO)

3779. The Chairman welcomed the panel representing the DMV and asked that they state their names and positions for the record to which they complied. 3780. The CMV gave a brief statistical report for 2011 of the DMV. She stated that there were 13,149 licensed vehicles on Tortola, 1,890 on Virgin Gorda, 127 on Anegada and 106 on Jost Van Dyke for a total of 15,039 licensed vehicles in the territory. 3781. The CMV also advised that in 2011 the DMV had issued 848 new drivers licenses, 70 temporary drivers licenses and renewed 4,721 which brought the total of drivers licenses issued and renewed to 5,639. 3782. The CMV also stated that they had conducted 1,549 road and cone tests. She further advised that 46 vehicles were shipped out of the territory and 10 were returned. She reported that there were 538 taxi drivers on Tortola, 50 on Virgin Gorda, 71 livery on Tortola and 11 on Virgin Gorda. 3783. The CMV informed that the DMV had expended $857,879.61 and collected $1,725,655.00 in revenue. 3784. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked why ten vehicles had been returned to the Territory. 3785. The CMV stated that sometimes persons would send their vehicles out of the Territory to be repaired and they would be returned to the Territory, but she was
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uncertain whether that was the case in the ten vehicles that were returned. She stated that the DMV does not request a reason as to why a vehicle would be shipped out of the Territory, but they would be informed that the vehicle would be returned to the Territory. 3786. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about Subhead 61510 Office Rent and asked whether it included the parking area. 3787. The CMV advised that the office rent was solely for the building and did not include the parking area. She stated that the building was comprised of two floors and a basement and the DMV occupied the two floors. She was unable to provide the square footage of the building and would furnish that information as well as information regarding the lease agreement at a later date. 3788. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked whether the DMV had any vacancies to which the CMV responded in the negative. 3789. The Member for the Third District enquired about the rationale for persons with work permits who had their drivers licenses expired simultaneously with their work permits. 3790. The CMV stated that persons with work permits were given the option to obtain licenses for one or three years. She said that the question arose as to why a person who was only permitted to work in the territory for one year would be given a drivers license for three years and the DMV rectified that situation in March, 2011. 3791. The CMV said that to curtail persons who were only in the territory for a period of one year from having to receive a drivers license for three years, it was tied to the work permits which meant that when the work permit expired, the drivers license would also expire. 3792. The Member for the Third District asked what provisions were made when a work permit and a drivers license expired and the renewal for the work permit was in
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process with the Labour Department. The Member also asked whether there were any reprieve for persons who waited for their work permits to be renewed. 3793. The CMV advised that the DMV did not issue drivers licenses to those persons who waited for their work permit to be renewed, and there was no reprieve. She

recognised that it was not fair to persons, but the DMV had asked the Labour Department to provide information in the form of a memorandum on persons whose work permits were being processed. The CMV stated that once the information was received the DMV would honour it and would issue a drivers license for a period of time. She said that the Labour Commissioner discontinued the issuance of

memoranda and the DMV was faced with a situation where they could not issue the drivers licenses. 3794. The Minister for Education and Culture asked the CMV whether her advice was sought on the matter to which the CMV replied that she had discussions with the Ministry of Communications and Works concerning the drivers licenses and the work permits. 3795. The CMV said that they had instances where persons who had previously worked in the territory had left and returned on vacation, and demanded that their licenses be renewed. She said even though they had no ties to the BVI that she had also spoken to persons who said that they needed to have a BVI drivers license when they travelled because other agencies outside the BVI would not accept their drivers license from their home country. 3796. The Member for the Sixth District asked whether it was a large percentage of persons that were affected. The CMV stated that she now realised how many persons were on work permits that were affected. 3797. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian said that he did not get the connection as to why the drivers licenses were tied to work permits and asked whether the DMV potentially lost revenue because of the policy.
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3798. The CMV replied that the DMV did not lose revenue because the cost to renew a drivers license for a period of one year was $15 and the cost for three years was $35. She said that the issue was not whether persons had a work permit but whether they had ties to the Virgin Islands. 3799. The Minister for Communications and Works said that based on a number of complaints that they had received, that they would put forward proposals to Cabinet to make adjustments to the Regulations to allow the CMV to achieve what she sought to achieve in terms of the security issues and at the same time to address the difficulty that had been created with the work permit attached to the drivers license. 3800. The Member for the Third District said that if work permits were renewed at the expiration dates, there would be no problems but that was not the case. He said that a simple fix would be to change the date on the drivers license to six months after the expiration of the work permit dates. 3801. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked the CMV how long the DMV had been at its new location and whether the cost of electricity increased because of the larger space. The CMV said that they had been in the building for approximately one year, and the electricity did increase because of the size of the building. 3802. The Member for the Sixth District enquired about Subhead 62620 Licensing Expenses and noted that there was a significant difference in the 2011 Revised Estimate and the Estimated Expenditure. 3803. The CMV stated that they had changed the drivers licenses cards and had bought new machines for Tortola and Virgin Gorda. She said that the Subhead was also used for cleaning the building. The CMV said they had received a SAP (Supplementary Appropriation Provision) and she would provide additional information with regards to the figures.

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3804. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about Subhead 61310 Replacement of Vehicle and wondered what type of vehicle the DMV would purchase for $13,500 and what it would be used for. 3805. The CMV stated that the DMV wanted to purchase a specialised vehicle with extra steering which would be utilised to test persons on the road, but it would not be purchased at this time. She said that the vehicle would also have equipment for the instructor who conducted the test. She said that the person being tested and an officer from DMV would occupy the front seats and the instructor would sit in the back. 3806. The Chairman thanked the panel for coming and for answering the questions and concerns raised by the Members.

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HEAD 570 Present:

PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT

Mrs. Arlene Smith-Thompson Dr. Drexel Glasgow Mr. Jose deCastro Ms. Simera Durante Ms. Haley Trott Mrs. Margaret Jones-Greene

Ag. Permanent Secretary, MCW Ag. Director, PWD (Ag. DPWD) Deputy Director for Architecture, PWD Human Resources Manager, PWD Senior Planning Officer Finance and Planning Officer, MCW

3807. The Chairman welcomed the panel representing the PWD and asked that they state their names and positions for the record to which they complied. 3808. The Ag. DPWD in a brief presentation stated that the vision or aim of the PWD was to provide a sound and advanced infrastructure network throughout the territory, and their mission was to aspire to provide a safe practical, efficient, economically and environmentally sound infrastructure that was well designed, constructed and maintained in accordance with recognised codes and standards and in harmony with the territorys social and economic goals. He said that the organisational goal was to seek to advance the PWDs ability to manage for optimum productivity and achieve the goals and objectives set out by the government of the day. 3809. The Ag. DPWD advised that in 2011 the PWD executed a total of 242 Petty Contracts totaling $8.3 Million Dollars in areas such as the bush cutting programme, construction of retaining walls, sidewalks, road paving and drainage solutions. He said that they took the challenging economic times into consideration and made every effort to refrain from frivolous spending, ensure value for money and to realise
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savings wherever possible.

He noted that in an effort to have an efficient and

productive year they needed sufficient Human Resources, equipment and facilities. 3810. The Ag. DPWD requested that two Civil Engineer I/II/III posts should be upgraded and renamed to (1) a Geotechnical Engineer who would look at different soil, rock and formations in the territory and advise on different parameters to be used in building construction and (2) a Hydrologist who was knowledgeable in hydraulics to manage the serious drainage issues in the territory. He also requested that one

Clerical Officer be renamed HR Technician; one Senior Executive Officer be renamed Human Resources Assistant; one Clerical Officer to Executive Officer; one non-established Superintendent post be upgraded and transferred to the permanent and pensionable establishment; one Chargehand transferred from non-established to established and renamed and upgraded Clerical Officer. He further stated that the PWD had already submitted the abovementioned requests to the HRD and had received approval. 3811. The Ag. DPWD also mentioned in his report that a significant component of the PWDs road maintenance programme was the patching and overlaying of roads. He said that they had two options available in the territory. The first was to use the PWD asphalt plant and the second was to purchase asphalt from BVI Paving. 3812. The Ag. DPWD said that the asphalt plant at PWD was situated in Fish Bay and had surpassed its useful life. He said that the plant was labeled a nuisance and hazard to the businesses in the area and consistently malfunctioned. The Ag. DPWD said that if the government was to successfully continue the programme they desperately needed to purchase a new asphalt plant. He said that representation was made for funds to be made available in the amount of $1.2 Million dollars. He stated that the alternative to purchasing a new plant was to purchase asphalt from BVI Paving which had proven to be very expensive. The Ag. DPWD advised that they had utilised BVI Paving to purchase asphalt twice last year, in July and September, at a cost of $150,000. He

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reiterated that if they were to maintain governments role in producing the asphalt their recommendation for the new plant should be taken into consideration. 3813. The Member for the Second District asked the Ag. DPWD whether he was still at PWD based on recent news reports and to clarify his position for the record. 3814. The PSMCW advised that Dr. Glasgow was still the Ag. DPWD. She stated that at the moment he was reassigned to the MCW and was being considered for another post which was recently approved by HRD, but it needed to be formalised and nothing could happen until the passage of the 2012 budget. She said that he still assisted with duties, and they had a consultant at PWD but was also waiting to have that situation rectified. The PSMCW said that the DDPWD assisted with the

execution of duties of the DPWD and received assistance from the consultant. The PSMCW said that the Ag. DPWD was not totally removed from PWD and this was a transition period. 3815. The Ag. PSMCW said that the Ag. DPWD had worked with last years budget and had much input in this years budget and it was only fitting that he was selected to represent the PWD at this time. The Ag. PSMCW also mentioned that they had sought clarification from the HRD with regards to this issue and it was felt that a consultant could not assume full authority of the PWD in a capacity of consultant and it would not be appropriate to allow him to speak on the PWDs behalf as he was only on board for about two weeks. 3816. The Member for the Second District felt that the record would not be accurate and would not reflect what the truth in the matter was. He said that if the Ag. DPWD was not carrying out the duties at PWD he should not have carried his acting post to the MCW. The Member for the Second District said that the record would be disorganised because the MCWs records were not organised and it would have been better if the DDPWD had made the representation.

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3817. The Ag. PSMCW advised that Ag. DPWDs substantive post was DDPWD and Mr. deCastro was the second DDPWD. 3818. The Minister for Communication and Works reiterated that Dr. Glasgow was still the Ag. DPWD and would remain acting until a DPWD or Ag. DPWD was appointed to assume the post. 3819. The Member for the Fifth District recognised that the PWD had issues with the road paving programme but enquired as to how soon the Great Mountain Road would be paved and completed. She said that it was in a state of disrepair following heavy rains last year. She recognised that part of the road was repaved but the upper portion of the road was in a bad condition and was a nuisance to the motoring public and needed to be corrected. 3820. The Ag. DPWD confirmed that the problem area of the Great Mountain Road that the member spoke about was paved and two days after it was paved it rained and the water removed the asphalt. He said that the drainage in the area needed to be fixed and they had made representation of a design to have the drain fixed. He said that after heavy rains the water would disappear under the road in some areas, and then reappear on the road which caused the problems. He said that it would not be good use of funds to pave the road without the proper drainage in place and as soon as the capital funds became available the work on the road, including the drainage would commence. 3821. The Member for the Third District enquired about the asphalting of the roads from Meyers to the Junction of the paved Wharf and Doty. 3822. The Ag. DPWD stated that the projects were being worked on but when the administration changed the projects were placed under review but they were still on the PWDs work plan. He said that he had recently spoken to the persons in charge to see how best the areas could be fixed.

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3823. The Member for the Third District said that he also supported the request for the Milling Machine. He said that once the use of the machine was explained everyone would agree that it would make things better. 3824. The Member for the Sixth District enquired about Subhead 61425 Maintenance of Other Public Structures and Facilities and wondered why the provision of $325,000 was made for the upkeep of the Virgin Gorda Administration Building. 3825. The Ag. DPWD in his response said that the funds were utilised for anything that needed to be maintained on the building which included security, electricity, and other utilities. He said that up to last year the funds were separated and during the budget debate last year the building which was under the DGO was deemed as a government building to be maintained by PWD and the funds were since merged with PWDs maintenance of public infrastructure facilities. 3826. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked whether the building had a facilities manager. The Ag. DPWD advised that the building was not arranged like the Facilities Unit at the Central Administration Complex and did not have a Facilities Manager. He said that there was routine maintenance that was done at the building and the District Officer or other officers would contact PWD and advise them of work to be done. 3827. The Member for the Third District asked what portions of the allotted sum would be used in Tortola if $325,000 was allocated to VG and only $427,600 was provided for in the budget. The Ag. DPWD said that in the 2009 Budget the Subhead reflected $485,900 before the Administration Building in Virgin Gorda was transferred to PWD. 3828. The Minister for Communications and Works said that they would not approach $325,000 in maintenance for Virgin Gorda, but under the present budgetary restraints they would work with what was allocated for maintenance throughout the territory. He said that if the need arose they would request additional funds to maintain the
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buildings as they should. He recommended that what was reflected in the notes be amended to exclude the amount for the upkeep of the Virgin Gorda Administration Building. 3829. The Member for the Fifth District enquired about Subhead 61510 Office Rent and enquired why the notes stated Rental of Asphalt Plant site at Fish Bay. 3830. The Ag. DPWD stated that the Subhead referred to the rental of the land that the plant occupied. He said that they had a one year lease which was renewable in five years and the last change was two years ago. He advised that he was not aware how big the space was, but would provide that information for the Members. 3831. The Member for the Fifth District enquired as to where the new plant would be situated and the additional lands were approved. 3832. The Ag. DPWD stated that they had about three proposals in respect of a new site, but they were undecided. He said that a new plant would not fit in the exact location of the current plant and would need more room or they would have to consider a new site altogether. He said that he would make the information regarding the sites available. 3833. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked whether Subhead 62830 Maintenance of Roads and Bridges included Jost Van Dyke to which the Ag. DPWD answered in the affirmative. 3834. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian also asked whether there was a structured maintenance programmed to ensure that all the drains were cleared before heavy rains. 3835. The Ag. DPWD stated that there was a programme whereby they checked to ensure that the main ghuts were kept cleared before the rainy seasons. He said that they were aware of the problem areas and cleared those first. He said that because of the nature

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and location of some drains they were cleared more than once, but there were constant drain cleaning before the rainy seasons. 3836. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the problem regarding the drain that ran through Scatliffe Alley next to Money Gram. He said that it appeared that the problem was linked to an electrical line in a grill which caused the water and debris to be trapped at a certain point and enquired whether the drain continued under the road and exited at the other end. 3837. The Ag. DPWD said that the problem with the drain was not only the utility lines, but the drain itself was under capacity. He said that the capacity of water coming into the bridge was a lot larger than under the bridge and it caused a bottle neck effect. He said that discussions were held in the MCW and PWD and they were actively looking at resolving the problem. 3838. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about Subhead 62965 Special Works Programme and asked whether it included the James Walter Francis Drive and who was responsible for maintaining the hedges and verges. 3839. The Ag. DPWD advised that the Solid Waste Department took care of the main road ways and had a programme that dealt with maintaining the hedges, but from time to time PWD got involved in maintaining the road edges. 3840. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian also wanted to know about the process for constructing retaining walls in the Territory. 3841. The Ag. DPWD stated that there were two main processes that linked to one process. He said that with the discretion of District Representatives, they would send their requests to the Minister of Communications and Works and the MCW would direct PWD to prepare a design for the particular area. He said that once the design was completed there were a number of approvals that needed to happen which included approval from the Member. The MCW must also ensure that funds were available for the construction of the wall prior to preparation of the contract. He said that once the !"#$%**+%&'%"#$%

contract was prepared and signed by all parties there would be a meeting prior to commencement the project before works began. 3842. The Ag. DPWD further stated that he had seen retaining walls built on both public and private property. With regards to private property, he stated that any policy would rest with the MCW and the government as a whole. He said that he was aware that if someone had a dire need for a wall the MCW had an instrument in place where liabilities were concerned and once that was taken care of permission would be given for PWD to proceed with the wall. 3843. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about Subhead 65300 Purchase of Vehicles and wondered whether three vehicles would cover the shortage of vehicles and equipment at PWD. 3844. The Ag. DPWD stated that the funds allotted would not cover everything but they tried to be realistic with what they had. He said they had tried to get equipment over the years but had been unsuccessful. He advised that they made representation for some of the main items that they used. The Ag. DPWD said that they purchased heavy equipment from the MCWs vote and in addition to what was allotted if they could get an additional $300,000 in capital funds to facilitate those purchases it would help. 3845. The Ag. DPWD advised that PWD did not have some of the basic equipment, like a backhoe, that was needed to carry out their duties. He said that they were at the mercies of the private sector and sometimes it was difficult to get someone when they needed equipment. He further stated that they had issues with trucks on the Sister Islands and they had struggled for some time to get those functional. He said they would be in a good position if they received the additional funds. 3846. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked whether it would be more economical for PWD to have its own fleet equipment for its daily use versus sourcing them from private contractors.
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3847. The Ag. DPWD stated that PWD should be at the forefront and have certain basic equipment for their day-to-day operations and to assist with their programmes as it was not always feasible to hire private equipment. In addition to having some basic equipment, he said that there would still be considerable need to use private equipment. 3848. The Member for the Third District asked whether PWD had any vacancies. 3849. The Ag. DPWD stated that the PWD had 226 positions and over the past two years there had been about thirty eight (38) vacancies. He said the number had reduced and they were looking at ways to utilise some of the vacancies whether through renames or upgrades. He said that the vacancies included one Deputy Director, one Civil Engineer, one Structural Engineer, Surveyor, Assistant Roads Foreman, Road Foreman, Building Foreman, one Mechanic, three Heavy Equipment Operators, Plumbing Inspector, three Labourers, a Senior Laboratory Technician Supervisor, Engineer Technician, Architect, Senior Draughtsman and an Air Conditioned Repairman. Non-established positions vacant included one Superintendent, Building Foreman, Mechanic, Carpenter, Trainee Draughtsman, four Trainee Engineers, two Labourers, three Engineer Technicians, two Heavy Equipment Operators, an Assistant Compressor Operator, and a Handyman. He said that in some cases there were officers held against some of the vacant positions. 3850. The Minister for Education and Culture asked whether anything at PWD had changed over the past three months in terms of its operations not taking into consideration the present budget exercise. 3851. The Ag. DPWD said that most of the operations of the PWD depended heavily on the budget process and facilitating capital works from the MCW. He said that from the end of last year to the beginning of this year that the operations had been the same. 3852. The Member for the Eighth District enquired about the road from the Hope Hill area that went towards the east. He said that it was a heavily traversed area but was in
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disrepair for over a year and wanted to know the status and why it had not been addressed. 3853. The Ag. DPWD said that the road had been in its present state for more than a year. He said that the PWD had made representation in terms of a design and cost to have the area fixed but the government at the time decided to place the project under the proposed loan project for CDB. He said that the loan project may or may not come to fruition any time soon, but there were discussions with the Minister of Communication and Works and he was alerted of a few critical projects which included the Hope Hill Project and hopefully funds would be appropriated to have the works done. He said that the project was estimated at about $60,000. 3854. The Minister for Communications and Works added that the project was under the provisional budget and PWD was authorised to execute critical projects and they were prepared to advance the project once funding from the MOF was made available for them to proceed with the project urgently. He said that he would let the Member know and work closely with him to advance the project. 3855. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked whether the critical projects included Brady Ghut, Fat Hogs Bay, Diamond Estate and Great Harbour, Jost Van Dyke. 3856. The Ag. DPWD said that he was aware that Jost Van Dyke was included and they would like to get that project started and finished as it had been held back for a while as it was also proposed under the CDB loan project. 3857. The Minister for Communications and Works said that they would sign the contract to get that contract moving and that they would take the critical projects one at a time. 3858. The Member for the Fifth District asked whether the PWD would be in a position to allow roads to be graded at this time, and how quickly it could be done the Ag. DPWD replied that the provisional budget would not allow for grading, but they would try and make a start.
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3859. The Ag. DPWD wondered whether the amount of $51,400 that was allotted for Subhead 61210 Telephones/Telexes/ Faxes was an error since they had requested $54,100. 3860. The FS stressed that the Government had severe fiscal challenges and would not be able to support his request for an increase. 3861. The Ag. DPWD also enquired about Subhead 62965 Special Works Programme which was used for the bush trimming exercise. He said that in the past they

experienced problems and wondered whether they would be able to make representation for additional funds or whether the $500,000 that they requested could be made available forthwith. 3862. The Minister for Communications and Works said that they would review how they maintained the areas and he was conducting a project to give a proposal on how to maintain the areas and until that time they would refrain from going back to the MOF on the subject. He said that they were looking at zoning and would discontinue the bush cutting exercise and develop a proposal for general maintenance of areas which would include bush cutting and drain cleaning among others. He said that, until that happened, they would work it out. 3863. The Member for the Fifth District thanked the Ag. DPWD and PWD for their hard work and looked forward to more muscle in the execution of the works once the budget was passed. She thanked them for acknowledging the situations and said that she looked forward to getting projects done. She also expressed thanks to the Ag. DPWD for his presentation and for answering the questions truthfully and honestly and wished them well. She advised that they should all work together to get the territory moving. 3864. The Chairman thanked the panel for coming and for the information that was shared and for addressing the concerns.

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HEAD 580 Present:

TELEPHONE SERVICES MANAGEMENT UNIT

Mrs. Arlene Smith-Thompson Mr. Reynell Turnbull Mrs. Margaret Jones-Greene

Ag. Permanent Secretary, (AgPSCW) Telephone Services Manager (TSM) Finance and Planning Officer, MCW

3865. The Chairman welcomed the panel representing the TSMU and asked that they state their names and positions for the record to which they complied. 3866. The Member for the Third District enquired about the Voice over Internet Portal (VoIP) project and asked how it was progressing. 3867. The TSM advised that the VoIP project progressed slowly because of lack of funding. He said that for the past six or more years they had requested funding for the project and had been unsuccessful. He stated that the current systems were at the end of life which meant that the manufacturer no longer supported them and had a cut off time when they would stop supporting particular products and moved on to newer products. The TSM said if the system failed it would be difficult if not impossible to find replacement parts for the system to be brought back on line. He once again appealed for funding to support the VoIP project and to eliminate the old systems. 3868. The AgPSCW stated that TSMU was a priority and that a request for funding of $500,000 was made in the capital budget submission for the much needed upgrade. 3869. The FS said that there were no available resources and additional funds could not be made available. He suggested that the AgPSCW and her HODs would have to determine what areas were the highest priorities and decide on the areas that warrants allocations accordingly.

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3870. The Member for the Third District asked what the ramifications to the functioning of the Public Service would be if the system failed. The TSM said that if the system should fail communication to and from the public would be very difficult if not impossible in some cases. 3871. The Member for the Eighth District asked whether the core of the infrastructure was the issue. 3872. The TSM advised that the core of the infrastructure was at the end of life so it would be a wise decision to migrate to the VoIP system where one data infrastructure could be utilised for both voice and data. 3873. The AgPSCW illustrated the seriousness of the problem when she explained two major crises that they experienced last year. She said the first was at the old

Administration Building and the second was in November at the CAB when the system had shut down completely. She advised that the TSM and herself were on the phone at all odd hours of the morning and tried to resolve the problem. The

AgPSCW said that the TSM had to resort to the basement in search of old spear parts to resolve the issues and had to contact a retired engineer technician, who was probably one of the remaining persons that provided support to him, when the system failed. She said that they were on pins and needles last year November and, every time they had a crisis, it got worse and worse. 3874. The Member for the Eighth District enquired about the cost to upgrade the system to which the TSM replied that the estimated cost was about $500,000. 3875. The FS stated that the MCW needed to prioritise the issues and fund them accordingly and he was not aware whether it was appropriate for the MCW to indicate how critical an issue was. He said that when they looked at the submission from the MCW it was not aligned with those critical issues. He reiterated that the MCW had been given a fixed allocation and within that allocation they had to determine what was most important and fund accordingly.
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3876. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about Subhead 65300 Purchase of a Vehicle and asked what type of vehicle would be purchased for $32,500. 3877. The TSM stated that the TSMU wanted to purchase a utility truck for the technicians that worked in the field. He said that the vehicle was approved in 2010, and it went to tender but got delayed because the funding for the vehicle was not approved. 3878. The TSM raised another concern that he had for the past six or more years. He said that the TSMU had tried to implement a telephone policy for use of Government phones. He said the policy would save the government money as specific guidelines would be laid out for the use of government telephones. He stated that the TSMU received many requests for roaming on government phones and after a while they had seen very high telephone bills. He informed that sometimes it was difficult to

pinpoint what was Governments business from personal business. The TSM said that the policy had already been drafted and he would like to see it approved by Cabinet and implemented. 3879. The FS advised that he fully supported the telephone policy. 3880. The Member for the Third District noted that as of December 31, 2011 about $322,000 was owed to LIME and $139,000 was owed to CCT by Government agencies, and wondered whether that was all the money owed to LIME. 3881. The TSM advised that the figure mentioned was the estimated amount from TSMU. He said that at times the TSMU did not receive some of the bills from LIME for certain telephone numbers. He said that LIMEs outstanding amount would be

different from their outstanding amount, but he could not pay unless he received the bills. The TSM further advised that they would request the bills but it usually took a long time for the TSMU to receive them. He said that it was an ongoing issue with LIME and had not been settled because the figures would always be different. 3882. The Member for the Eighth District thanked the TSM on behalf of the Members. He said that he had known the TSM for a while and knew that he was very competent !"#$%*+#%&'%"#$%

and capable in executing his duties. He said once he was given the necessary funding that the Government would have a first-class phone system so he urged Minister to get the phone system up and running. He asked the TSM to give the staff their regards and continue to do well. 3883. The Chairman thanked the panel for answering the questions and concerns put forward by the Members.

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HEAD 600 Present:

PREMIERSS OFFICE

BVI TOURIST BOARD

Ms. Hadassah Ward Mrs. Rosalie Adams Mrs. Elvia Smith-Maduro Mr. Jamal Jones

Director, Tourist Board (DTB) Permanent Secretary, Premiers Office (PSPO) Assistant Secretary, Premiers Office (ASPO) Finance and Planning Officer, Premiers Office (FPOPO)

Subhead 62600 Grant to Tourist Board 3884. The Member for the First District indicated that the grant for 2012 is less than the 2011 grant by $5,289,100 and queried if there was a plan to substitute for the deficit. 3885. The DTB stated that the Tourist Board (TB) had been undergoing a number of cost savings measures and have reduced fixed expenses by $1.5 million. They will be reducing retainers paid to agencies as well as other cost savings measures. The marketing budget will undergo restrain. 3886. The Member for the First District questioned if the DTB can promote the Virgin Islands with the reduction in the annual subvention. 3887. The DTB stated that they will leverage what they have. Being cognitive that these are difficult times, the DTB stated she is pleased to hear that they can generate funding for themselves and have initiatives planned and hoped that they will come into tuition this year. She ensured the Standing Finance Committee (SFC) that TB will

responsibly manage the funds supplied. 3888. The Premier interjected that the PO will ensure that TB is given sufficient money to adequately market the territory. He added that it may be necessary to increase the grant overtime, but they would be monitored very closely.
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3889. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian requested documentation in the 2011 SFC minutes that indicate what was discussed in 2011. 3890. The Chairman stated that there was nothing in the records for 2011. 3891. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian requested if the TB had a breakdown of the 2012 budget. 3892. The DTB stated that there is a budget, but due to other priorities, the new Board of Directors and Chairman has not reviewed and approved the non-fixed expenses. Fixed expenses could have been provided during the SFC meeting. 3893. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried the time period to have the budget approved. The DTB stated that the TB Board of Directors would meet the following week and a provisional budget can be provided once they are signed off. 3894. The Chairman directed the Members to page 432 of the Finance Report, 2011, for an estimate of the TBs budget. 3895. The Member for the Fifth District enquired about the last year the TB submitted an annual report. 3896. The DTB stated that she thought the last report was submitted 2008. The annual reports for 2009-10 will be submitted after they have been signed off by the TB Board of Directors. The report will be submitted without audited figures because the 19992006 accounts are being audited currently. The TB has requested that the Auditor General audit 2007-2011 accounts with the 1999-2006 accounts to ensure that the TBs accounts are brought up to date. 3897. The Member for the Second District questioned the validity of the unaudited reports. 3898. The Premier stated that the reports gave a good idea of the TB standings.

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3899. The Member for the Second District stated that a Certified Accountant should sign off on the unaudited reports. He posed this question to the FS for follow-up. The FS stated that the audits have to be completed. The FS further stated that the TB has a new Financial Comptroller, Jaslyn Frett. 3900. The DTB stated that Ms. Frett holds a Masters, Degree and has been in the field for over a decade, and is completing her CPA. 3901. The FS requested that the House of Assembly indulge the TB a while longer so the Financial Comptroller could acclimate to the TB. 3902. The Member for the Fifth District enquired if there was no Financial Comptroller prior to Ms. Fretts appointment. 3903. The FS stated that there was a Financial Comptroller, but Ms. Frett is most likely what the TB needs based on her background. 3904. The Member for the Fifth District enquired if the DTB had anything to report referencing annual and audited reports, in terms of management, for 2010-2011. 3905. The DTB stated that the annual reports from 2009 to current are being compiled. The Board of Directors will send them to the PO after they have reviewed and approved them. The Premier would take them to Cabinet. 3906. In regards to the management of the board for the 2010/2011 years, the DTB stated they currently have offices in United States (US) (in New York), staff in Miami and Los Angeles, an office in the United Kingdom (UK). She further stated that there are agencies in the US, the UK, Italy, Germany, Puerto Rico (which represents Latin America and the Caribbean). She also stated that the TB was doing work in the emerging markets where the focus is Russia, India, and China. Most of the TBs collaboration has been with the International Financial Center (IFC) and the Shipping Registry at marine shows. The TB is targeting the luxury, marine, weddings,

honeymoon, and water sports markets. The TBs agencies had a contract to market
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and develop small properties. The TB is currently taking advantage of a value ad programme developed with its media partners. The DTB further stated that when the TB purchases advertising, the TB negotiated free events world-wide that consumers and trade are invited to. 3907. The TB launched a new website in 2011 along with new marketing material, a brochure, a Facebook page, and a Twitter account. The website is translated into five languages. An iPad application was launched with Conde Nast Hot List. The BVI application is sold and marketed by Conde Nast. 3908. The TB worked on their product sites. The DTB stated that there needs to be updated look-out sites, restroom facilities, and environment clean-ups. The TB has not seen any progress in terms of clean-up. 3909. The DTB reported that the new injections of properties to sale at Scrub Island and Oil Nut Bay have boosted the media markets. The TBs focus was to bring their travel partners here to tell the story for the TB because it is the most cost effective and efficient way of marketing the Virgin Islands because the TB cannot afford to advertise on television, specifically Connecticut, New Jersey, and New York. These markets were negotiated free of cost. 3910. The TBs strategy in the UK was tour operator driven because the UK is one of the most expensive markets to advertise in and the TB is unable to afford that market. The tour operators had been able to bring steady numbers of UKs visitors. The TB hopes to inject funding into their marketing to bring more of their visitors here. 3911. The Member for the Fifth District asked if the DTB had an idea of the number of visitors brought by UKs tour operators. 3912. The DTB stated that she would forward the statistics via e-mail to the SFC that afternoon.

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3913. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian asked that the DTB report on the most expensive item within TBs budget. The DTB replied marketing. 3914. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian further enquired on the percentages of the budget for marketing. 3915. The DTB replied that the budget for marketing varied based on the TBs budget. In 2011 when the budget was $15 million, the TB spent close to $6 million on marketing. If the budget is small, the percentages for marketing is smaller because the fixed costs, which includes some marketing costs such as agency fees and operations for offices in UK and US, do not go down. 3916. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian asked which company or individual is paid the most. The DTB stated that the US agency, Partner Concepts, gets paid the most. 3917. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired if the contract with Partner Concepts was an on-going contract. The DTB stated that it was, but will expire this year (2012). 3918. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian then enquired about the number of staff currently employed in the Virgin Islands and what vacancies were available. 3919. The DTB stated that they have approximately 35 employees. It could range between 35-45 employees: Information Officers, part-timers, and data entry officers who, depending on the season, can amount to up to ten. The current vacancies are: Information Officers (4) and data entries (2-3) part-time. 3920. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian further enquired about full-time positions. The DTB stated that there was one position open: Deputy Director of Marketing. 3921. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired about the number of staff overseas. The DTB stated that there are approximately 10 employees with the largest
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number being stationed in New York (6). There are two in the UK, one in Los Angeles, and one in Miami. 3922. The Member for the Fifth District noted that the locations previously listed did not have a TB employee stationed at those locations. She enquired if business was conducted by agencies. 3923. The DTB stated that the TB has agencies in Italy, Germany (for over 20 years), Puerto Rico (6-7 years and partnered throughout Latin American). Agencies are paid a retainer for staff who work full time on the TBs account and some projects. Other projects are paid on a project-by-project basis. 3924. The Member for the Fifth District enquired if the DTB was satisfied with the returns from the agencies. The DTB stated that she will not be satisfied until the territory reaches one million visitors. 3925. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian requested that the DTB report on the payables of the TB as of 31 December, 2011. The DTB states that the payables were approximately $2.7 million and that the government subvention were short approximately $3 million. 3926. Territorial Member, C. Christian asked of the $2.7 million owed, who was owed the most. The DTB stated that the North America agencies are owed the most which is the normal case. The DTB further stated that the TB always owes their agencies. 3927. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian asked if not paying owed amounts was fair. The DTB stated that when agencies have declared that they would stop bookings, but decided to continue bookings. She added that times are tough. 3928. The DTB stated that funding from taxation would help the TB to pay their bills accordingly. The TB will continue to be creative to make profits, but they currently make profits for other statutory bodies.

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3929. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired about the methods used to track the 35-45 members of the TB locally. 3930. The DTB replied that as of 15 January, 2012, there was a new system installed to get into the TB building via cards and/or fingerprints and the employee time records would be kept electronically. Previous to this system, the TB maintained sign-in sheets to monitor staff time records, but was inefficient for staffs that are frequently out of the office. 3931. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian asked if the system was part of the audited records. The DTB replied currently it is not, but it will be going forward. 3932. The Member for the Fifth District enquired if the Wendy Williams Show promotion was a recommendation of the North America office. The DTB stated that it was not recommended by the North America office but an initiative of the then Chairman of the Board. 3933. The Member for the Fifth District asked if the TB paid the expense from their local budget. The DTB stated that it was paid from the local budget. 3934. The Member for the Fifth District further enquired about the total expenses incurred. The DTB reported that it cost $752, 246.45. 3935. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian asked if this was part of the TB 2011 annual budget. The DTB replied affirmative. 3936. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian requested if the DTB believed that the territory received value for money. 3937. The DTB answered that the main expenditure was for a promotion during sweeps month. During this time, clips of the different activities Wendy Williamss

participated in while in the Virgin Islands were shown on about ten times within 5-10 segments. She also reported that during this time, there was a sweepstakes via a website that directed visitors to the TB website for more information. The contest !"#$%*"'%&'%"#$%

was to listen for the Virgin Islands word of the day and enter the word on the website. The aim of the contest was to educate the viewers about the destination. 3938. The Minister of Health and Social Development asked how long ago this promotion was. 3939. The DTB stated that sweeps month is 21 of October to the day before Thanksgiving, after which that portion of the promotion was completed. The sweepstakes have not taken their trips which would also be part of the promotion. Once the winners return, their experiences recorded and Wendy Williams has surprises she will be sharing with her audience. 3940. The Minister of Health and Social Development asked if the result of the $752, 246.45 is still to be realised. The DTB answered affirmatively and concluded by stating that PR takes time to be realised. 3941. The Minister of Natural Resources and Labour asked what the DTB expected. The DTB replied that her expectation is the knowledge of the destination to have increased. The territorys greatest asset is that it is Natures Little Secret but it is also a liability. 3942. The Member for the Third District asked that the DTB convey why the Wendy Williams Show was targeted. The DTB replied that that is one of the significant determinants being addressed, besides the market, was that the 2011 season was the first season without the Oprah Winfrey Show. The choices were between the Ellen DeGeneres Show and the Wendy Williams Show. Wendy Williams has the most varied audience of the US day time talk show in the world. The TB received calls from the UK, Wendy Williams has a following in the Middle East, and the show is syndicated in world-wide. Those were the statistics that the TB used to choose the Wendy Williams Show. 3943. The Member for the Fifth District enquired about the details of the sweepstakes winners. The DTB stated that 20 people won a trip to the Virgin Islands. The winners !"#$%*"(%&'%"#$%

have not yet been advertised. The TB will ensure that the travel is during the slow season to facilitate airlift and room and board availability. 3944. The Member for the Fifth District asked if the territory can expect at least 20 people to visit the Virgin Islands. 3945. The DTB stated that the Territory could expect at least 20 visitors who will arrive here for free. She reported that the results of the sweepstakes will require research over six months to determine the number of visitors who were influence as a result of the promotion. 3946. The Member for the Fifth District asked if there was a mechanism in place to determine if the promotion worked. 3947. The DTB replied that the TB could determine how well the promotion was based on the interest via the website, feedback from hotel personnel, and indications on the immigration cards. There is no concrete method to determine these figures because the TB did not sell a packaged, she included. There are no current mechanisms, but the board knows what information visitors to the website were interested in and how many pages were traversed. 3948. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired about the number site visits since the promotion. The DTB reported that 200,000 visits were made to Wendy Williamss micro-site and 30,000 visits were made to the TB website. 3949. The Member for the First District requested that the DTB provide statistics of the Wendy Williams Show to illustrate viewership of the show. He also enquired about the going rate for the Wendy Williams Show to determine if the rate was a reasonable amount. He further enquired if the promotion was viewed as an initiative to boost our tourism product because the market in the area seemed stagnant based on the statistical data and if the promotion was looked upon as a long range investment to boost the territorys market share.
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3950. The DTB replied that the TB had several large initiatives in the US to prepare for the 2011/12 season. The Wendy Williams promotion was the largest. The promotion was aimed to assist in boosting the awareness of the Virgin Islands. She also

indicated that the Virgin Islands are an expensive destination to travel to. The TB hopes that those who cannot afford to travel to the Virgin Islands aspire to visit the Virgin Islands as their dream destination. The Virgin Islands brand needs to be known beyond just the people who can afford to travel to this territory. The purpose of PR, she stated, was to make people aware of the territorys brand. Marketing, on the other hand, is directed to people who can afford to come to the territory in the next 1-3 years. 3951. The DTB complete the answer by ensuring the committee that she would provide the requested information. 3952. The Member for the First District asked for the comparisons of the other neighbouring funding on marketing countries to that of this territory. 3953. The DTB noted that the TB is far more beautiful, but a TB budget fails in comparison. Marketing and promoting the USVI is one of the highest priorities of the USVI government. Other countries have the cash flow that the TB doesnt have access to. 3954. The Member for the First District further enquired about the TBs current hardships: was it realised since the 2008 economic downturn or experienced before then? 3955. The DTB stated that the TB had two types of financial difficulties. The first, she reported, is ongoing debt (carried year to year). As of 2012, the TB does not have a debt issue. The second difficulty that still haunts the TB is a cash flow issue (money budgeted to be received was not received in a timely matter). 3956. The Member for the First District asked if budgeted amounts for spending could not be paid because the subvention to the TB that was due was not received to date. The DTB replied affirmatively.
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3957. The Member for the First District enquired about the methodology to be used in order to clear the debt. 3958. The DTB stated in 2009, the Chairman of the Board cut the TBs operating cost which has not increased since. In 2010 and 2011, the Government of the Virgin Islands gave the TB influxes of funds. This influx significantly helped the TB clear its debt. 3959. The Member for the First District asked if the TB was bankrupted. The DTB replied that the TB was financially strapped. 3960. The Member for the First District reiterated that the influx cleared the debt and enquired if now over spending the budget was an issue because subventions are not received. 3961. The DTB replied affirmatively and added that the PO and Ministry of Finance (MOF) have worked to get the subventions. 3962. The Member for the Third District enquired if the TB had commitments to the BVI Ports Authority. The DTB stated that to her knowledge, the commitment is between the Government and Ports Authority. 3963. The Member for the Third District requested that the DTB provide insight regarding the show called One Caribbean on CBS. He asked that the DTB disclose the arrangement between the channel and the TB. 3964. The DTB stated that it is an advertisement arranged during primetime on CBS. The channel is a US channel based in Pennsylvania and viewable on the east coast of the US and down the island chain and into South America. The show, she reported, is a great means of advertising events in the Caribbean and the Virgin Islands to Caribbean people and those in the viewing locations. The show is also one of the most affordable methods of advertising on television because it targets a specific geographical location.
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3965. The Member for the Third District enquired about the cost. 3966. The DTB stated that the 2011 agreement was $35,000 for primetime advertising, three times a week. The Virgin Islands has been featured by Joey Stevens, the host of the shows. The two featured shows are shown approximately ten times. The channel

would also run the commercials and shows when there is nothing else to fill other spots, even beyond the contracted period. 3967. The Member for the First District requested that the DTB provide the total amount indebted over the years. The DTB reported that the estimate was over $5 million carried from year to year. 3968. The Member for the First District enquired about the number of years the debt was carried. The DTB reported that the debt was carried by a few directors. 3969. The Member for the First District further enquired about the number of directors who carried the debt and the year the DTB joined the TB. The DTB stated that when she joined in the London office in 2006, the debt was $4 million. In 2008 she became the Acting Director. 3970. The Member for the First asked how much the TB was indebted in 2008. The DTB stated that when she became the Acting Director, the debt was approximately $5million. 3971. The Minister for Education and Culture requested that the DTB confirm that the statements made by her were accurate regarding the running deficit of $5 million dollars since she became the Acting Director. 3972. The Member for the First District added that the DTB also verify that the information be clarified. The DTB stated that she would provide exact dates and figures for the SFC. 3973. The Chairman reminded the SFC that the DTB will provide the figures for the Members.
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3974. The Member for the Fifth District asked that the DTB confirm that she stated that the running deficit was cleared. The DTB replied affirmatively. 3975. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian asked if the DTB felt that compared to money spent on other promotions, would the territory realise the benefits of the Wendy Williams Show promotions. 3976. The DTB replied that she will provide the information requested by the Members rather than provide information that may be deemed inaccuracy. 3977. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian reiterated that statistics for this question was not needed. He requested that she answer based on the DTBs experience. He also enquired if the promotion was actually a production or a promotion. The DTB stated that it was a full programme with three elements. 3978. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian further enquired if, based on the DTBs experiences in the past and this promotion, to what degree the territory will ever realise the benefits from the Wendy Williams production. 3979. The DTB stated that it was a difficult question because it asked to measure the results of PR which will require more time to measure. The promotion first showings were only three months prior. The promotion, she added, was certainly the most expensive promotion but is typical to what larger locations would do. 3980. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired if calls were being made in the North America agencies more often. 3981. The DTB stated that during December, there was a spike in the number of calls received in the North American agencies and offices. Marketing consistency is

necessary to maintain the large numbers of telephone calls. Regarding measurements of the results, the DTB reported that it cannot be determined three months after the initial showing. She added that a Wendy Williams appearance via her promotion company was typically more than $1 million.
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The DTB was able to save by

accessing Wendy Williams via Debmar Mercury, the producer of Wendy Williamss talk show. 3982. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired if telephone calls have peeked or were declining. 3983. The DTB reported that the calls were declining since Christmas which was most likely due to the holiday season. The month of January has produced even less calls which may be because people may be traveling. The DTB stated that the TB wants calls consistently, but it would require a consistence in the market. 3984. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian asked if the target was to attract travelers to the Virgin Islands. The DTB replied that it was. 3985. The Member for the Sixth District asked the DTB if she ever questioned the deficit she met there and who or what organisation was owed before she assumed the role as Acting Director in 2008. 3986. The DTB answered the largest amount of the deficit was owed to the Zimmerman Corporation for advertising and agency fees. A smaller amount of money was owed locally. 3987. The Member for the Sixth District asked if the TB received an annual budget. 3988. The DTB stated that there was an annual budget. Depending on the TB budget cycle, amounts requested were also the amounts spent based on an expectation of receiving funds requested. Also, the TB utilised funds during periods for more urgent expenses instead of for budget items it was received to use it for. The TB indicated that when agencies are owed, the TB should either slow down or completely stop using the agency instead of incurring additional cost. The DTB concluded that it is very

difficult to discontinue marketing because then the world would no longer see the territory and it would have fallen out of sight of possible visitors.

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3989. The Member for the Third District asked the DTB disclose the more information about the new venture with an airline that the DTB met in Bahamas. 3990. The DTB answered that it is an on-going conversation with Silver Jets. They are testing a short-term route from Puerto Rico to the Dominican Republic. The request from the Domincan Republic for Silver Jets to continue the service during the high season prompted the airline to ask several Caribbean destinations if they required additional service. The territory requires additional flights between Puerto Rico and Beef Island. The current providers, charter services, American Airlines, and Cape Air, are providing several flights, but there is a significant lack of routes. The cost in the month of January for an economy flight between New York and Beef Island is $2000. This cost makes it prohibitive for many people to visit the territory. More airlift is needed which would drive the ticket fares down. The blossoming

conversation with a new provider may lead to additional services being provided at Beef Island from September. 3991. The Member for the Third District asked if there were any guarantees. The DTB replied that the conversations just began two weeks prior. The territory was the only destination as late as 2009 not to be paid any guarantee on airlift which is standard else. 3992. The Member for the Third District requested the number of seats on the aircraft. The DTB replied 35. 3993. The Member for the Third District asked for the number of flights provided by American Airlines and if an overnight is provided. 3994. The DTB stated that it ranges from 4-7, depending on the season. There is also an overnight. American Airlines is making a significant amount of money via Beef Island and the route to Puerto Rico is the most profitable route within the Caribbean.

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3995. The Member for the Fifth District asked if the information provided has been communicated to the PS. The DTB replied that the reports are being finalised for the TB. 3996. The Member for the Third District asked if the other Caribbean islands have a need for flights to San Juan. The DTB stated that there are a few islands that require it: Dominica, St. Vincent, Nevis, and Anguilla. 3997. The Member for the Third District asked if persons could not fly via St. Martin. The DTB stated that it depends on which city the traveler is arriving from. There are more direct flights from Puerto Rico than St. Martin. 3998. The Member for the Third District asked that the DTB provide statistics for arrivals for 2010 and 2011. The DTB stated that in 2011, there 754,218 visitors. Visitors via cruise ships were down 18%, overnight visitors up .9%, and day trippers down 7.6%. The 2011 versus the 2010 figures are down 10.48%. 3999. The Member for the Third District asked if the American market was stagnant or depressed. The DTB replied: stagnant. 4000. The Member for the Third District asked if the DTB meant that the market was remaining the same: not decreasing or increasing. He also asked if the largest

segment of the territories tourism came from America. The DTB replied that 70% of visitors arrive from North America. 4001. The Member for the Third District enquired if that included Canada. The DTB replied affirmatively. 4002. The Minister of Health and Social Development asked if North America included Mexico as well. The DTB stated that it did not. 4003. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired if the DTB could provide background information on Silver Jet.
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4004. The DTB replied that BVI Airways is being considered as a carrier between Beef Island and Miami later 2012. Silver Jets base in Florida, but the DTB only has preliminary information. The DTB is only having basic discussions with Silver Jet. 4005. The DTB replied that Silver Jet was bankrupt. With Goldman Sacs investment, Silver Jet was able to redevelop the airline. 4006. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian asked if the DTB had knowledge of destinations similar to the Virgin Islands. Like Cayman Islands who have their own airline, The Member for the Third enquired if the government should invest in airlines as owners, partnerships, etc. 4007. The DTB stated that if her only goal as DTB was to get visitors on and off the island, she would say yes. But as an economist, knowing the economist of running an airline, government involvement typically endangers the government and the airline because the airlines have not had to run efficiently because the government has continuously bailed the airlines out. The revenue guarantee agreement is the most efficient method to allow government work with airlines because it performance based, ensures that the airline can profit on routes that are not established, and the territory gets lift. The DTB strongly believes that a flagship carrier for the destination boosts the destinations brand. Privately run businesses run the most efficient. 4008. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian asked the DTB to state her views regarding extending the runway. 4009. The DTB replied that the runway needs to be extended urgently. The DTB stated

that it is necessary, but has to be completed in an environmentally conscience way because that is what the territory sells. The area is especially beautiful. 4010. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian asked if environmentalist deem the project environmentally detrimental, would it be wise to extend the runway.

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4011. The DTB stated the environmentalist studies are on-going for routes that the Port Authority have identified. There are a few options that environmentalist will support. 4012. The Chairman thanked the DTB for her presentation.

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HEAD 610 Present:

MINISTRY OF NATURAL RESOURCES & LABOUR

Mr. Ronald Smith-Berkeley

Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour (PSNRL)

Mr. Denniston Fraser Ms. Vina Brathwaite Mrs. Louann Hodge-Smith

Managing Director, BVI Airport Authority (MD) Accounts Officer II, BVI Airport Authority (AcctOII) Ag. Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour (AgFPONRL)

Subhead 62800 BVI Airports Authority Limited 4013. The Chairman thanked the panel for appearing at the Standing Finance Committee Meeting and asked that they state their names to which they complied. 4014. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether the proposal to extend the runway was reflected in the budget. 4015. The MD stated that they were hoping to get some fees from the airport development fees which had been set aside at the National Bank of the Virgin Islands. He said that the only mention there was the airport development fees which some of the initial works, for e.g. what they were doing now the environmental study report and the technical review, funds were coming directly from that. He stated that there was not a subhead called runway expansion and that it was all coming from the development fees. 4016. The Member for the Third District enquired about the balance. The MD stated that the balance was approximately 2.3 million dollars set aside.

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4017. The Member for the Third District queried the rationale behind moving the Airport Authority from Communication and Works to Natural Resources and Labor. 4018. The Premier stated that it was useful to separate the actual function of the airports from the regulative authority. He stated that Civil Aviation which was the regulatory body sit with Communications and Works and they put the Airport Authority which included running the airport such as the planes with Natural Resources. 4019. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired whether there were accounts for this Authority. 4020. The MD stated that they had the draft for 2009 and 2010 from the audited reports which should be tabled out in the next two to three months. He stated that they were in the draft stage at this time. 4021. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the Security Services. He enquired whether it was 68 or 58 employees. The MD stated the number was 58 employees. 4022. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired how many were BVI Islands and Belongers. 4023. The MD stated that it was roughly forty five locals. He said that what they were trying to do was that all the new employees were locals and all the new security employees they were sourcing for that post would be local. He stated that there were some non-locals when he came. 4024. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether there was a head officer. The MD stated that they just employed a Chief Security Officer. 4025. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether that person was a BVI Islander or Belonger. The MD stated that that person was a Belonger.

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4026. The Member for the Third District queried where we were in terms of our studies concerned with the possibility of expanding the runway and what were we hoping to achieve. 4027. The MD stated that they were currently conducting an environmental impact assessment. He stated that they called it an impact assessment because it entailed not only environmental but human, social and biological that was being currently conducted by Cross Manning and the report is expected to be delivered by the end of April. He stated that they also contracted International Airline Transport Association to do a technical review of the two leading options. He further stated that that study should be completed at the end of March 2012. He stated that those were the two main items in which they were working on in terms of the run way options were concerned. The MD stated that they were also awaiting a report and a business plan review type report from their operations team who were the originators of the option six and were asked to put together a good business case for that plan. He stated that he spoke with the Director of Operations this morning and he indicated that that plan should be ready by the end of next week. He said that the plan would detail a lot of the details that were an option from the master plan in terms of dimensions. He further stated that that plan should detail the dimensions for the option six. The MD stated that that was where the Technical Review came and they would then be able to accurately state which particular type of aircraft would be able to come from which particular destination. He said that they were hoping to achieve was to have at least commercial aircraft from the Eastern sea board in the U.S and at least accommodate private aircraft and private jets from Europe. 4028. The Member for the Third District enquired about the runway length for option six. 4029. The MD stated that currently the master plan was doing its study based on a seven thousand foot runway for both options. He stated that they were hoping at the end of it they would have at least a seven thousand foot runway.

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4030. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether that was going to have any negative impact on Trellis Bay if they went to seven thousand feet. 4031. The MD stated that currently that was the reason that they were doing the environmental impact assessment and at the end of that study they would know precisely how much impact, if any it would have on Trellis Bay. He stated that the plan should also indicative corrective measures that we could take in case there were any environmental concerns. 4032. The Member for the Third District queried how much of the seven thousand feet was expected to be active runway. 4033. The MD stated that the option for option six with seven thousand being the total length, there would be at least a three to five hundred foot displace threshold. He stated that they were also looking to create an approach towards option six and with that approach plate they were seeing whether it would be possible or not to utilize much of that seven thousand as possible. He stated that was where the Technical Review came in if it was possible with the threshold at the end of the runway so that we could utilize the entire seven thousand or whether or not we would have to displace the threshold by five hundred feet or so, therefore leaving the usable length to 6500. 4034. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what is the length of the existing runway. The MD stated that they had about four thousand nine hundred and fifty. He stated that they only had three thousand, nine hundred and fifty seven feet usable land in distance towards the east. 4035. The Member for the Third District enquired whether option six was the only one being pursued. The MD stated that the two leading options on the table were option four and six. 4036. The Member for the Third District enquired whether they were similar or were they different.
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4037. The MD stated that option four changed the direction of the runway towards the North East so they would have a four to zero, five to zero degree heading as opposed to what they had right now which was zero seven zero degrees. He stated that option six continued on that zero seven zero degrees heading towards the East. 4038. The Member for the Third District enquired whether if option four was used if you could get a longer runway or if it had potential for expansion as opposed to option six which stopped with six thousand feet and could not expand. 4039. The MD stated that the option four could possibly be pulled back words (towards the South West) and you would have some impact if that was done and the entire East End Bay area would be affected. He said that if it went to the East, then yes they would be infringing on Scrub Island and the surrounding areas. He said that option six could be pulled back for usable take off runway with landing that may not be possible but it could extended towards the east for a longer runway. As to the negative effects on either one of those options extending in either direction, the environmental impact assessment would be better able to identify those impacts and the causes and so forth. 4040. The Member for the Third District queried what size aircraft are we targeting. The MD stated that currently they were looking at the Boeing 737, the Airbus 300, 319, 320 and 321 for landing on the runways. 4041. The Member for the Third District queried whether there would be a period for review. The MD stated that he believed there would be a period for public consultation, possibly before these results are tabled. 4042. The Member for the Third District queried what would happen if the only thing they had to deal with was public consultation and the politics of the street. He queried how soon we would have been able to open the facility for operation. 4043. The MD stated that there was nothing left but public consultation and as soon as their reports are back by the end of April/May, then it was a matter of having the design work. He stated that he was not an architect and he would assume two or three !"#$%+$"%&'%"#$%

months and once the work was started, it was estimated that at least 18-24 months before the actual runway was completed. The end of construction would be 18-24 months. 4044. The Member for the Third District queried whether we needed an extended runway. 4045. The MD stated that the BVI needed an extended runway and that we probably needed to have some additional ramp space. He stated that Old Years Day he went into the tower and there were twenty one private jets on the ramp and they were still American Eagle, LIAT and so forth trying to maneuver through them in and out of the ramp. He stated that they had to close a portion of the taxi way for ramp congestion. He said that the private jets stated that they would like a longer runway to enable them to enable them to reach direct to Europe and we know the drive and the push here with Tourist Board in terms of getting additional tourists. He stated that we would definitely need and encourage having a longer runway to have direct flights from the Eastern Sea Board. 4046. The Member for the Third District queried whether he was convinced that the flights would come from the East Coast United States. 4047. The MD stated that we may begin like he initially remembered when St. Thomas began about two flights per week. He stated that we may begin that way and we could develop as far as the BVI wanted to develop, whether or not we limited that by price or even scheduling aircrafts to come. He stated that if we did not desire to develop as fast and have a mass tourism business but he knew that the passengers want to come to the BVI and get here in less than a day. 4048. The Member for the Third District stated that one good reason for the question was that if you go up to the airport during the day, the flights was few and the facility was sparsely used. He enquired whether it had to do with the San Juan hub or that people were not going to come no matter where they were coming from.

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4049. The MD stated that the drop off in traffic that they had in 2011 especially. He stated that they saw a drop in the recession years 2006-2009 but then they saw a bounce back in 2010 and a drop back in 2011. He stated that he believed that the drop was because of the increasing number of passengers now using St. Thomas as an alternate airport mainly because of price. He stated that the Operations team in had begun this month conducting surveys by the Ports and the airport terminal. The Ferry terminal in Road Town and they were hoping to expand to the West End terminal and in Virgin Gorda in the near future. He stated that the whole purposes of these surveys was questions asking passengers about their reason for travelling by boat to St. Thomas and getting a flight onwards rather than using Beef Island Airport. He stated that so far the results coming in showed that most people tended to use St. Thomas because of the price. He stated that people were willing to fly from Beef Island for a hundred dollars more. He stated that in some cases the prices were up about three hundred and fifty dollars more than a flight out of St. Thomas but persons in that survey indicated that they were willing to pay at least a hundred dollars more. 4050. The Member for the Third District stated that he did not believe it was going to be the MDs responsibility to put the business plan together but that answer would be featured prominently in the success or failure of the plan. He stated that the prices in St. Thomas were not going to change after the runway was extended. He said that he did not want to see the situation arise where there is a condition like the price of goods where people claimed that it was not shipping that cost the money and not the goods. 4051. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that years ago there was a company that flew direct from Miami to Beef Island utilizing a short take-off and landing jet. He stated that he suspected that because of the volume of traffic at the time, that service was discontinued. He enquired whether the authorities were pursuing that option directly from Miami to see to Terrence B. Lettsome International Airport.

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4052. The MD stated that he happened to be privy with some information by BVI Airwaves. He stated that the CEO made a presentation to the air lift committee which is a subcommittee of the Tourist Board. He stated the Chairman indicated that he was in fact looking at acquiring one or two of that particular type of aircraft. He said that it was then called the BA 146 but was now called AVRO 70. He said that he was pursuing to acquire one of those aircrafts sometime and later this year to commence direct flight from Beef Island to Miami. 4053. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried how you would measure that service verses and expensive but probably necessary extension of the existing runway. 4054. The MD stated that there were not many of those aircrafts left and he said that he was actively pursuing because there was only two left in the area that he was going to acquire that particular aircraft from. He stated that he thought that the expansion would be necessary if we needed to reach to the Eastern Europe because that particular aircraft would not be able to do that on this length runway even if it started at the end of this year. He said that based on his numbers, the furthest that he would be able to go was Atlanta from Beef Island. 4055. The Member for the Eight District queried whether he said that there was not much of those aircrafts in operation. 4056. The MD stated that there was a fair amount especially out of London City airport in the UK. He said that that was a similar size airport to ours and stated that he did not believe there were any mass manufacturing of that particular aircraft. 4057. The Member for the Eight District stated that if it was an aircraft that was no longer heavily manufactured and not many operating if we could trust an aircraft like that flying out of Beef Island to Miami. 4058. The MD stated that he was very confident. He stated that the aviation industrious was heavily regulated and even if there were a few aircrafts flying, we know that there must be spares and certain requirements that each airline of such aircraft would have !"#$%+!&%&'%"#$%

to have in place before the regulators would even allow that aircraft. He stated that he was confident with the reliability of safety. 4059. The Member for the Eighth District queried the impact on Trellis Bay with the options mentioned. 4060. The MD stated that in the absence of a completed report, his guess would be that if option six extends then there would be some sort of impact such as the exit entrance area would be narrowed. He stated that there might be a possibility of dredging part of Sprat Point possibly to reduce the impact of water flowing back and forth. He said what was mentioned was having tunnels under the runway as a possibility to have the area ventilated. 4061. The Member for the Eighth District stated that he had been bombarded with questions about this expansion concerning the impact of the businesses. 4062. The Chairman the panel for coming and for answering the questions and concerns raised by the Members.

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HEAD 610 Present:

MINISTRY OF NATURAL RESOURCES & LABOUR

Mr. Ronald Berkeley Mr. Joseph Smith-Abbott Mrs. Louann Hodge-Smith

Permanent Secretary/MNRL Director, National Parks and Trust Ag. Finance and Planning Officer

Subhead 62900 National Parks Trust 4063. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District welcomed the Director and his team to SFC and asked that they state their names and positions for the record to which they complied. 4064. The Member for the Third District asked if the DNPT has a copy of his budget. The DNPT stated that he has copies for everyone. 4065. The Member for the Third District asked for an overview of what the DNPT plans to do for 2012. 4066. The DNPT stated that the Trust envisages this year, not only its normal operations, but as part of a funding mechanism from the European Commission, to roll out some work that would further capitalise and developed several parks. During the first part of the year, they anticipate developing architectural drawings that would lead to enhancement of facilities at several of the Territorys parks such as the Baths, Coppermine, Sage Mountain and Iguana Facility on Anegada. Once the phase of the planning is complete they plan to develop some of the work during the latter part of the year into 2013. Once the planning and procedures relating to the use of the funding is taking into account during this phase they plan to roll out the better part of the work during the latter part of 2012. They plan to work closely with the Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour to further enhance and to add several distinct properties and to further afford opportunities for the trust to be involved in the !"#$%+!(%&'%"#$%

management of areas that are indirect use for the visiting public and residents. They anticipate being keenly involved in the planning and development in areas along Long Bay and Smugglers Cove. In addition, they continue to work closely with partners to maintain a number of properties which are very heavily used and which the industry relies very heavily on. They have plans to continue the partnership with several international agencies in the development of several ongoing projects such as the Iguanas rehabilitation programme on Anegada. They continue to release the Iguanas, which have doubled the population in the wild and this was a milestone they achieved last year. They have partnered with Royal Botanical Garden in the continued

assessment of plants within the VI and to better understand key species of importance. 4067. The Member for the Eighth District stated that there is an overpopulation of iguanas in the Major Bay area, especially in the vicinity of the Willard Wheatley Primary School and asked what is being done about the over population of iguanas. 4068. The DNPT stated that iguanas he referred to were the indigenous iguanas that were suppressed due to several factors. The ones that are found on Tortola are runaway pets that become feral and have gone wild. They have not worked with trying to control or do much with them and have not focused on them. 4069. The Member for the Eighth District asked if there is any potential danger to the residents, in them running wild throughout the community. The DNPT stated that if one happens to run into the wild on Anegada it would definitely have an impact because they would have to compete for food. Since the population is mostly on Tortola the likelihood of having an impact is none. 4070. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District asked for clarity on whether there are wild iguanas on Tortola. The DNPT stated there are wild iguanas on Tortola that could be a problem with indigenous plants (gardens, farms etc.). They reproduce abundantly.

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4071. The Member for the Eight District said that he was unsure which agency deals with the iguanas on Tortola, but the DNPT should take a look at what is going on in the East End area, particularly at the Willard Wheatley Primary School. The DNPT stated that it would be best suited for Agriculture. 4072. The Member for the Third District asked if the DNPT is of the opinion that they are pets gone wild more so than those coming from St. John that come across on palettes etc. The DNPT stated that it shouldnt be discounted since the iguanas are known to drift or travel in cargos and this has been documented in other jurisdictions. 4073. The Member for the Third District asked if Guana Island has iguanas. The DNPT stated that Guana Island has a smaller population that was acquired from Anegada. He further stated that there are some species on Norman and Nicker Islands. 4074. The Member for the Eight District asked if the species are unique to the Territory and if so, is the DNPT partnering with the Tourist Board to market the iguanas to our visitors. 4075. The DNPT stated that the species were widespread many centuries ago as far as Puerto Rico and the USVI. The population on Anegada is endemic which makes it unique. In addition, there are eleven or twelve sub species of cyclorah. The species that they are managing are the oldest (evolutionary) and when promoting the work and the species people are made aware. 4076. The DNPT stated that perhaps not direct provision of information. They have worked with them to make them aware. The project is unique because they are hatched in the wild, collected released in Anegada. Tour operators integrate the facility into their tour. 4077. The Member for the Eighth District stated that it needs to be considered and looked into.

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4078. The Member for the Third District asked if there is anything that prohibits anyone from taking in alien species of iguana to Anegada. The DNPT answered no. 4079. The Member for the Third District asked if he thinks it would be a good idea to have a ban on bringing in iguanas as pets to Anegada. The DNPT stated that it would require that they work closely with Agriculture to start an awareness campaign. 4080. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian noted the Terrestrial Wardens and asked what their duties are. The DNPT stated that the Terrestrial Wardens are on site at the parks that maintains the parks or interact with the Public. They have senior Wardens at the island level and they are located on three of the major islands except Jost Van Dyke. 4081. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian sought clarity on the Terrestrial fees. 4082. The DNPT stated that there are three fee collecting parks: The Baths, Botanic Garden and Sage Mountain. The gross amount mostly derived from the Baths and will supplement part of the operations especially areas that are not collecting as much fees or where it is not necessary to collect fees. 4083. The Member for the Third District asked about a turn style type collecting mechanism. The DNPT stated that some of the properties that they have, for example the Baths, has one control point where the fees are collected which is feasible. There is a similar situation at Sage Mountain although the number of people visiting that Park is low. Some parks are too open and its not feasible to collect fees at this point. 4084. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked for a breakdown of fees that is charged. The DNPT stated that the fee collecting parks are at $3.00 and fees are not collected on Anegada. 4085. The Member for the Third District asked if there is a two tier fee for locals and visitors. The DNPT answered yes. There is a charge of $1 for locals to enter the Botanic Gardens and Sage Mountain. Locals are not charged for entry into the Baths.
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4086. The Member from the Fifth District enquired about entrance to the Baths from the sea. The DNPT stated that they collect the fee at the sale of a permit that includes entrance fee to the Baths. It is more efficient and they could use any mooring that the NPT owns. Persons from the USVI pays mooring fee through Customs. 4087. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the mooring fees and asked if the fees apply only to the moorings that the NPT owns. He also asked if the NPT owns any moorings at Sopers Hole. The DNPT stated the mooring fees are applied to moorings that the NPT owns. The NPT does not own any moorings at Sopers Hole. The moorings are located at popular dive spots. 4088. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked who collects the fees from day trippers. The DNPT stated that the boating companies (moorings, sunsails etc) are given permit books and issues the permits on behalf of the NPT. 4089. The Member for the Third District asked if anyone was ever observed moored without a permit. The DNPT stated that they do not collect anymore. 4090. The Member for the Eighth District asked if the current system of collecting fees reliable. The DNPT stated yes, the system is reliable because charter boat companies must issue the permit that are done in triplicate and has been doing so for decades. 4091. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked about the mooring fees. The DNPT stated that the fees vary from $25 for four persons on a boat for a week if the boat is a foreign vessel it is $50. In addition, after ten passengers there is an additional $5 per person. Permits are also sold on a daily basis for $3. 4092. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked the cost of renting a park for a function and if the NPT promote the use of the parks for functions. 4093. The DNPT stated that the parks are rented for parties, weddings, receptions etc. Queen Elizabeth Park is popularly used for parties etc, there is no need to advertise it because it is well known. The Botanic Gardens is not promoted heavily since it is
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passively used. The use of the park is $50 with a $50 deposit and the use of the Botanic Garden is $300. The fees are relatively small. 4094. Minister for Natural Resources and Labour stated that he asked the DNPT to prepare a detail report on the 50th Anniversary Celebration that will be available for Members review. 4095. The Chairman thanked the DNPT for coming and giving information to the SFC.

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HEAD 640 Present:

MINISTRY OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT

Mrs. Petrona Davies

Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Health and Social Development (PSMH&SD)

Dr. Ronald Georges

Ag. Chief Executive Officer, BVI Health Authority Board (Ag.CEO)

Ms. Lilly-May Carlton

Ag. Financial Comptroller, BVI Health Authority Board (Ag. FC)

Dr. June Samuel

Director of Medical Staff, BVI Health Authority Board (DOMS)

Mr. Cedorene Malone

Director of Hospital, BVI Health Authority Board (DOH)

Mr. Don Lewis

Director of Community Health/Operation Manager, BVI Health Authority Board (DOCH/OM)

Mr. Irad Potter

Chief Medical Officer, Ministry of Health and Social Development (CMOMH&SD)

Mrs. Anthony McMaster

Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Health and Social Development (FPOMH&SD)

Ms. Kisha Donovan

Finance Officer, Ministry of Health and Social Development (FOMH&SD)

4096. The Chairman thanked the panel for attending the deliberations, and requested that they state their names and positions for the record.

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Subhead 62700 Grant to BVI Health Services Authority Board

4097. The Ag.CEO presented the SFC with a report on the Health Authority Board Budget for the financial year October 2011, which concludes in September 2012. He stated

that this represent the fifth year of operation of BVIHSA. He stated that the BVIHSA has five strategic gold which are documented in the strategic plan; these are to create a financially valuable and responsible organization, to provide quality clinical services that meets the clients needs and expectations, to operate efficiently and effectively, to provide family focused services and to differentiate BVIHSA as market leader. He noted that there have been a number of challenges during the financial year which has hampered the achievement of those goals. He explained that BVIHSA has made some progress in the area of clinical quality. He further stated that they have appointed Clinical Committees to oversee the units and also appointed a Clinical Risk Manager. He stated that in terms of improving the financial position of the BVIHSA there was not sufficient progress on the revision of fees; however revenue for the year has increased to 3.9 Million dollars over 3.7 from the previous year an increase of $254,000. The Ag.CEO further stated that this represent a short fall of 54% of the projected revenue which was predicated on a change of the fees schedule within the BVIHSA. He noted that the BVIHSA has strengthened relationship with external hospitals. He commented that there were a number of unfinished items from the previous year which include increase the collection, advocating approval for a fees schedule, rationalising the exemption under the legislation and increasing the services provided by BVIHSA. He also commented on the three areas of expenditure that are of concern overseas patient that represent a significant burden to the BVIHSA, Pharmacy expenditure, Dialysis expenses. The Ag.CEO stated that a

wellness committee was established and spearheaded an initiative to improve the dietary unit and also have a wellness programme throughout the Authority. He noted that in the Human Resources Department they launched an Employee Assistance Programme and continued a recruitment drive. He also noted that in the Finance Department was currently producing monthly financial performance report for the board and Financial Statements for the years 2005 to 2007 were completed was
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submitted to the auditor. He stated that there continue to be several challenges with the Hybrid System which the Authority currently operates. He also stated that in the Public Relations Department the BVIHSA has reviewed the Service Chart and Patients Bill of Rights which are reviewed annually, and they also provide a newsletter. He further stated that in terms of information systems the key areas that are required for the improvement of BVIHSA was the implementation of a Health Information System which did not come into fruition due to budgetary constraints. He commented that the Information Technology Department has been using open software to help the Authority clean up their processes in anticipation of a new system. 4098. The Member for Third District enquired where the BVIHSA gets their income for Dialysis in the amount of $1.4 million and asked whether the revenue came from insurance. The Ag.CEO stated that the revenue for Dialysis was collected from insurance agencies. He noted that 16 of the Patient that receive Dialysis are insured. 4099. The Member for the Third District asked that the Ag.CEO give an insight into the cost of Dialysis. The Ag.CEO stated that the cost for Dialysis was $12,000 per session. He noted that for the average dialysis patient the cost would be $16,500 per month. 4100. The Member for the Third District enquired the percentage covered by the Insurance Agencies. The Ag, CEO stated that one of the insurance provider reimburse 100% and the other agencies 50% and the other 50% goes unpaid. 4101. The Member for the Third enquired the percentage covered by BUPA. The Ag.CEO stated that BUPA covers 100%. 4102. The Member for the Third queried whether out of the 16 patients on Dialysis how may were insured. The Ag.CEO stated that BVIHSA has 41 clients on Dialysis and of those 16 are covered by insurance. He also noted that 12 out of the 25 are exempted from paying under the regulations because of their age and 15 are unable to pay.

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4103. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the cost of $16,500 per month for Dialysis was a real cost incurred or factors in other profits and whether it was a cost to the Government. 4104. The Ag.CEO stated that that was the cost for providing the service including the Human Resource , the overhead utilities, the space, all of the supplies and maintenance of the equipment that are required. 4105. The Member for the Third District enquired whether any one has ever been turn way, in terms that the Authority may not have the capacity to treat that patient. 4106. The Ag.CEO stated the Authority was presently at the breaking point particularly in the Dialysis Unit in terms of the quantity of patients and the current capacity of the unit. He also stated that the BVIHSA was thinking of doing minor expansion to that unit to have an additional three stations as the equipment was donated by the University of Michigan and the Rotary Club. He further stated that there would be some minor modification to the unit and staffing changes to accommodate a larger number of clients who require Dialysis. 4107. The Member for the Third District stated that the Ag.CEO mentioned that the Authority was unable to collect all the revenue for medication. He noted that in many cases the BVIHSA those not have the medication that was prescribed in particular for Seniors Citizens and enquired how often that occurred or whether it was rare. 4108. The Ag.CEO stated that the BVIHSA purchase their medication through OECS/PPS through a bulk purchasing mechanism in which they receive preferential pricing and the Authority tends to have most of the regular medications in stock. He also stated that on occasion there were medication which are outside of the regular list which the Authority do not stock and in those instances there would be issues with supplying medication to patients. 4109. The Member for the Third District enquired why the medications that was outside of the regular list not being stocked. !"#$%+&'%&'%"#$%

4110. The Ag.CEO stated that they were not being stocked mainly because of price and was dependent on what the Doctors in the hospital may or may not recommend and what was on the list of medication the Authority usually buys. 4111. The Member for the Third District queried whether the Doctor would not recommend for the BVIHSA stock the medication or for the patient to use the medication. 4112. The Ag. CEO stated that it would depend on what was normally purchased or what was normally prescribed. He stated if there was a request for a medication that was out of the ordinary then that medication would not be stocked, as it would have to be through a special order. 4113. The Member for the Third enquired what it meant for the Ag.CEO to grant Senior Citizens free Health Care Services. 4114. The Ag.CEO stated that providing seniors with Free Health Care was included in the Public Hospital Ordinance under the exempt category. He stated that from the point of view of having access to persons who cannot afford care and who may also require the most care. He noted that he could understand the intention of the Legislation but from the stand point of covering cost those are the persons who require more extensive care, so it impacts on the finances of the Authority. 4115. The Member for the Third District stated that if the Authority was going to tell the seniors, they would be provided with free health care it should be a total package. He enquired whether the seniors were given a voucher to purchase medication elsewhere when it cannot be provided by the BVIHAB. 4116. The AgCEO stated that the BVIHAB did not have a voucher programme. 4117. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the BVIHSA understood that the person who comes into the hospital and cannot afford to pay for the services that they are given cost would be incurred by the Authority. He enquired what that person was suppose to do if they were unable to pay for the services and whether it was the
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responsibility of the Government to cover the Health Services of the people or only provide the services that are available. 4118. The PSH&SD interjected and stated that the under the Public Hospital Act those exempt categories refer to services provided from Peebles Hospital. She noted that if it was not available at Peebles Hospital that Act those not guarantee free care elsewhere. 4119. The Ag.CEO stated that there were two issues, financing of care to allow access and provision of care. He commented that not necessarily all care can be provided on island. He stated that since the creation of the HSA Act in 2004 or 2005 the provision of care has been delegated to the BVIHSA. He further stated that however with that the financial arrangement has not changed, in that the Authority provides care and also covers the cost. 4120. The Member for the Third District enquired from the BC the funds allotted to the BVIHSA in 2011. 4121. The BV stated that the funds allotted to the BVIHSA were 19.2 Million for 2011. 4122. The Member for the Third District queried the way in which the funds $21,100 million was disbursed by the BVIHSA since their fiscal year started in October 2011 and ends in September 2012. 4123. The PSH&SD explained that in respect to the funds provided to the BVIHSA in the 2011 financial year of the Government Calendar year, the Budget provided was $17.1 Million and was Supplementary funding of $2,170,352. She stated that amount of monies transferred to the BVIHSA in the Government Calendar year 2011 was $19,207,352. 4124. The Member for the Third District was of the pined that it was impossible for the BVIHSA to run out of money the way their financial year was set up.

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4125. The PSH&SD stated that the BVIHSA has an excess of $2 million in outstanding debt which are bills that need to be paid. She noted that the current budget that was presented and the BVIHSA was to present all the revenue projected of $5.7 million would still show a short fall of over $4 Million. 4126. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the BVIHSA has pinpointed what was causing the short fall. 4127. The Ag.CEO explained that there was never proper funding of the BVIHSA from the beginning to manage operational cost. He noted that as the years continued what would happen was that the actual allocation would end and there would be a supplementary or an over expenditure. He noted that the causes were because the fees outdated as well as the exemptions, limit on the collection of revenue and there are services that the BVIHSA must provide as stipulated by the law which consumes cost. He noted that there were several areas in BVIHSA where they could increase efficiency and reduce cost but the fundamental issue was how the Authority was financed. 4128. The Minister for Health and Social Development commented that at the point when the BVIHSA started out they had expenses in the amount of $17 million. He noted that it seemed that all of the funds have been incurred to cover Administrative cost and that this needed to be looked at, as the whole purpose of the BVIHSA was to provide service. He also noted that not much funding was going into service. He stated that Health Care in the Territory was a very expensive exercise. He further stated that the Health Care needed to be viewed holistically to find out what can be done with the resources available and that would be the challenges for the BVIHSA moving forward. 4129. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired how many categories of exemption were available to the Public and how those these exemptions work.

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4130. The Ag.CEO stated that the exemptions are in the Public Hospital Ordinance. He further stated that Cap195 of the Public Hospital Regulations. He noted that the exempted categories include persons over the age of 65, mentally ill patient, school children, prisoners, workers at the Adina Donovan Home, Police, Health Care Workers, indigents and Fire Officers. He also noted that once a person falls under one of the mentioned categories they would not be billed for the services provided. 4131. The Minister for Health and Social Development explained the plans for the BVIHSA going forward. He stated that Authority would still provide free health care to

persons over the age of 65. He noted that all the other categories would be provided for under the National Health Insurance Scheme. He noted that all Police and Fire officer are provided with insurance at no cost to the officer. He stated that this law was done at a time where there was no insurance. He also stated that the Ministry would be making amendments to the Act to remove some of these exempted categories. The insurance should be reliable for the services provided by the hospital for some of these exempted categories. He noted that another way forward for the

BVIHSA was the restructuring of the Hospital as they are looking to improve the level of care. 4132. The Member for the Eighth District stated that he noticed that the BVIHSA was having issues in terms of revenue collections and what was being done by the Authority to collect those fees. 4133. The Ag.CEO stated that the Authority was having issues collecting revenue and was an area they were working on. He noted that he had outlined some of the ongoing steps in the report presented to the SFC. He noted that one of the steps would insure pre certification and pre authorization of services so that the Authority could accurately bill the insurance companies. 4134. The Member for the Eighth District enquired whether the BVIHSA follows some revenue collecting model from another agency for the collection process.
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4135. The Ag.CEO stated that was based on the standard way funds are collected within Health Care Institutions particularly from Insurance Companies and that was the process the BVIHSA was going after. 4136. Territorial Member, Archibald Christian enquired whether the agent used for revenue collection was a company or an individual. 4137. The Ag.CEO stated that last year contracted an agency to collect outstanding account receivables which was in the sum of $12 million from many years back and the collection agency was not very successful. He noted that one of the reasons the collection agency was not successful was because person did not know they had outstanding balances at the hospital and never received a bill. He also stated that the data collected from individual in terms of address was inaccurate. 4138. The Member for Eighth District enquired whether persons who came to access Health Care at the Hospital were not required to provide identification. 4139. The Ag.CEO stated that in the pass that type of data was not collected. He note that now the persons has to provide the Hospital with a photo identification and verification of their home address. 4140. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired the current status of the post of Financial Comptroller and whether it was a position that would be filled of has been advertised. 4141. The Ag.CEO noted that this was a position that needed to be reviewed by the Board and sent to the MOH&SD for approval. He stated that at this point, without the Board in place it was difficult to have a process in place to appoint a Financial Comptroller. 4142. The Member for the Second District queried whether the Brewers Bay Clinic and the Sea Cows Bay Clinic were operated by the BVIHSA. The Ag. CEO stated that both clinics are operated by the BVIHSA.

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4143. The Member for the Third District stated that there have been issues with Doctors showing up to treat patient at the Sea Cows Bay Clinic and asked that the Ag.CEO address this problem and the solution going forward. 4144. The Ag. CEO stated that the clinic runs twice a month particularly to review the seniors. He stated that clinic in Sea Cows Bay runs in conjunction with the Senior Programme in that District. 4145. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired whether all Clinics were serviced by a Doctor and if not which ones were primarily serviced by a Doctor. 4146. The DOCH/OM explained that the Road Town, Long Look and East End Clinic are all serviced by a Doctor. He stated that in Virgin Gorda there are two Doctors to service the Valley and North Sound Clinics. He also stated that the Capoons Bay Clinic has a Doctor on call who also services other clinic such as Just Van Dyke. He noted that Anegada Clinic gets a visit once per week. 4147. The Member for the Third District enquired whether a Doctor was stationed fulltime in Capoons Bay Clinic. 4148. The DOCH/MO noted that that Zone had three Clinics to be serviced. He stated that the Doctor would travel to the various Clinics within the zone on weekly bases, which are Jost Van Dyke, Cane Garden Bay and Capoons Bay. He also noted that there are two nurses stationed at Capoons Bay Clinic. 4149. The Member for the Third District enquired the level of service these clinics are equipped to deliver. The DOCH/MO stated that the clinic deliver primary care services which range from Maternal and Child Care Services, Family Planning, Chronic Disease Clinics and walk-ins. 4150. The Member for the Third District enquired how the DOCH/MO accounted for services rendered and compensation. The DOCH/MO stated that records are kept of

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all services provided by the Clinic on a daily basis which are tallied on a daily, weekly and monthly and forward to the Authority. 4151. The Member for the Fifth District queried from what period the Ag.FC has being acting. The Ag.FC stated that she has been acting from 1st November 2012. 4152. The Member for the Fifth District enquired the status of the previous Financial Controller. 4153. The Ag.CEO stated that the Contract for the previous FC had expired August of 2011 and was not renewed. 4154. The Member for the Fifth District enquired whether the persons who give false information left the Territory or left their previous residence. 4155. The Ag.CEO stated that in terms of the places to which they sent the bills too many came back undelivered and persons had addresses such as General Delivery. He stated that research was done with the immigration Department to find out whether persons on the billing list left the Territory and those persons were removed from the list. He stated that presently all patients are required to have a photo identification and give accurate billing information. 4156. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired the billing cycle for services rendered at the Hospital. 4157. The Ag.FC stated that they strive to give bills immediately but this was not achieved 100% of the times. She noted that it was difficult to say the percentage of time that was achieved as the process was being reviewed. 4158. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian queried whether there was a requirement for certain services to be paid immediately. He stated such as getting an x-ray done. 4159. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired what other services fits that category. The Ag.FC stated that you are required to pay in advance of the service.
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She noted that other services are labs, physiotherapy, pharmacy, admission to the Hospital in terms of maternity. She noted that with Maternity you are required to pay a deposit. 4160. Territorial Member, Archibald Christian enquired the percentage paid by patient admitted to the Maternity Ward. 4161. The Ag.FC stated that patients admitted to the Maternity Ward are required to pay $220. She noted that the Hospital has an arrangement with Social Security in which persons who are qualified with Maternity benefit, they would pay the hospital bill instead of providing the money to the patient. 4162. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired whether services to paid and what services are to be paid immediately was part of the BVIHSA public awareness campaign.
4163. The Ag.FC stated that BVIHSA had a number of Public Education programmes on

stream and running but because of financial challenges they had to be scaled back. He
noted that they had a newsletter that came out every two months and a programme on television and radio that use to run on a monthly basis. He noted that the television programme was pulled of air because of funding challenges. He noted that once the BVIHSA sort through the funding issues those programme would be back on stream. 4164. The Member for Eighth District queried if the BVIHSA had so many pre-paid services why they so much arrears. 4165. The Ag, CEO stated that one of the issues was the high level of exemption and that some of the services are quite expenses. He noted for example the Dialysis treatment which was $16,000 per month and other services which are quite expenses. He further stated that a number of persons are unable to pay, so those instances a payment plan come into effect. He noted that there were a larger number of persons that are unable to pay for these services.

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4166. The Member for the Eighth District asked that the BVIHSA provide the SFC with a breakdown of the arrears. 4167. The Ag.CEO stated that the outstanding receivables in the amount of $12 Million since 2004. He noted that from the period of 1st October, 2011 to 10th February 2012 the cash collected was $1.8 Million. He explained that of the $922,000 was Dialysis insured, hospital and community insured patients was $410,000 and exempted and uninsured person 1.4 Million. He noted that out of a total receivable of $2.7 Million which was based on the current fees schedule. 4168. The Member for the Third District stated that Dialysis Treatment should be placed in a separate subhead and should be cost directly to Government as an expense for revenue purposes towards the Hospital. He further stated that monies that are not collected which are based on exemption should be covered by Government. He noted that subheads should be made to cover these different areas then the BVIHSA would be looking better as far as revenue and expenditure. 4169. The Ag.CEO stated that another area of expenditure was overseas car. He noted that care that a person require and cannot be delivered at the hospital the Authority would make provision to send these persons overseas. He noted that some patients are unable to meet the cost of the care, so what has been happening between the BVIHSA and the MOH&SD make arrangement to guarantee those expenses so that persons can receive the care and the person would repay thereafter. He also note that the BVIHSA budget $700,000 to cover this type of expense each year. 4170. The Territorial, Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the $700,000 budgeted for overseas care should be increased. 4171. The Ag.CEO stated that a different way should be looked at for financing that care. He stated whether it be through insurance or having an arrangement with the Service Provider Overseas to negotiate discounts on particular services such as patient being transferred from the BVI. He noted that this service was difficult to budget.

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4172. The Member for the Second District enquired whether the BVIHSA Budget 2012 was cut by 7% like the other Ministries/Departments and the 50% increment cuts to Public Officer was not reflected and asked that the Ag.CEO to explain. 4173. The Ag.CEO stated that the BVIHSA changed their gratuity to a performance bonus. He noted that it was no longer a 20% gratuity it was based on 5%, 10% or 15% which was done a few years ago. He noted that no increments for the Authority has been processed pending the appointment of the board.

4174. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether they had a breakdown between the BVI Islanders, Belongers and Expatriates in terms of who owed the majority of the bill. 4175. The Ag.CEO stated that they did not have that information. He said that they collected immigration status but that was not how they broke down the receivables. 4176. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried about the number of doctors on call at any given day. He stated that there seemed to be a concern that at times there may not be enough doctors at the hospital. He asked what drove the feeling that the public expressed about not having enough doctors at the hospital, in particular persons coming in for emergencies. 4177. The Ag. CEO stated that presently they had a triage system at the emergency room where once someone came in they would be seen by a nurse where it was decided whether urgent or an emergency. He stated that based on how they were triaged, then they would be sent out by different streams. He stated that if it was a very urgent case they would be seen right away. He said that the emergency room was broken into two sections: A section where emergencies were handled and a section for outpatients. He further stated that there was one doctor assigned to the walk-ins, if that side gets a lot of people, the waiting time may increase on that non-emergency side. He said that in the emergency side, people should get through easy. He stated that the waiting time for triage was very short and once a person had been triaged, then one would get into
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the cue to see the doctor. He said that in terms of shortages in the emergency room it was not about the amount of doctors but basically concerning the triage and the time in which it takes for persons who were non-emergency to get through. 4178. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that he did not know whether it was a lack of information given to the public in terms of how service is rendered or if it was whether people expected to be rendered service as soon as they came to the hospital. He stated that he saw the triage notice in the waiting room which shows what would happen depending on the level of care but there still seemed to be the public concern that they were spending a long time in the emergency room waiting to access care. He enquired whether it was something that could be improved upon. 4179. The Ag.CEO stated that there was room for improvement and that the triage process was reviewed and audited. He said that they had people coming into the emergency room for non-emergency conditions. He stated that if you were not emergent and you went into the triage process, you were going to wait in cue and those who were more urgent would be seen first. He stated that they found that after two in the afternoons, the traffic to the clinic decreased and people choose to come to the hospital because they knew there was the lab and x-rays etc. He stated that some of those persons waiting for a long time may be better cared for in the district clinics which he said they found to be true. 4180. The Member for the sixth district queried what was considered an emergency. 4181. The Ag.CEO stated that if a person was bleeding or if they had airway difficulties then it would go higher up the triage scale. He said that it depended on clinical presentation and persons like that would be seen before persons that were not as urgent. 4182. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired how many ambulances were in operation today. 4183. The Ag.CEO stated that there were two ambulances in operation today. !"#$%+'(%&'%"#$%

4184. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried how an ambulance was used. 4185. The Ag.CEO stated that the ambulance was used for emergency cases. He stated that they only had one active EMT crew and when the crew was on break they used the ambulance. He stated that if they received a call they could respond immediately. He said that from time to time one might see the ambulance outside of a food establishment. 4186. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether that was an acceptable practice. 4187. The Ag.CEO stated that it was something that they had to do base on their level of staffing and the fact that they had one ambulance crew. He stated that recently they were able to work with Fire Services where most of the firemen were trained EMTs to have a second backup crew in case they needed to have a call when the ambulance was out. 4188. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired how many ambulances were working. 4189. The Ag. CEO stated that there was one working satisfactorily and the second one was working somewhat. 4190. The Minister for Health and Social Development queried how many ambulances there were in the parking lot. 4191. The Ag. CEO stated that there were five. 4192. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether three and a half were down by the park. 4193. The Ag. CEO stated that they were for disposal.

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4194. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether they were going to be recycled or taken down to Sea Cows Bay to be crushed then sent out with the other vehicles. 4195. The Member for the Third District stated that a decision was taken to have the Emergency Medical Services taken over by the Fire and Rescue Services. He queried about how far advanced it was. 4196. The Ag. CEO stated that the last meeting in which he attended was last year and there were no subsequent discussions. He stated that the consultant was retained by Ministry of Communication and Works to investigate the issue and he had not been called to any meetings subsequent to that. 4197. The Member for the Fifth District enquired whether Fire and Rescue was to take over fully or was to assist with emergency Medical Services. 4198. The Ag. CEO stated that the discussion at the time was for emergency call handling at the Fire Station and also looking at the development of an emergency medical service throughout the Territory. He stated that whereas there was an ambulance stationed at Peebles Hospital, they were looking at other ambulance in the other Districts. He said that presently the Fire Service ran the ambulance on Virgin Gorda which was owned and maintained by the Health Services Authority. 4199. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the status of the Peebles Hospital Project in terms of the building. 4200. The PS stated that that question would be best posed to the Ministry during the discussion of their Capital programme. 4201. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the status of Carimax would fall under Capital as well. The PS stated yes. 4202. The Member for the Third District pointed towards the budget in the area of benefits. He said that there was three hundred and seventy thousand something deduction over !"#$%+')%&'%"#$%

their actual expenditure for last year and stated that health insurance was reduced by $336, 00.00. He asked them to explain. 4203. The Ag.CEO stated that they had some staff who decided to opt out of the group health insurance scheme. 4204. The Member for the Third District stated that the payroll tax was another $300,000.00 reduced from last year. He enquired whether those figures were real or budgeted. 4205. The Ag.CEO stated that they were budgeted based on the existing Human Resources. 4206. The Member for the Third District enquired how the payroll tax for October 2010 to September 2011 had an actual budget of $991,000 and for 2012 it was going down to $677,000. 4207. The Ag.CEO stated that this was the information calculated by the Human Resources Department. He said that what might have happened was that vacancies may not have been budgeted for but they would have to clarify that figure. 4208. The Member for the Third District enquired whether a majority of their workers were on contract. 4209. The Ag.CEO stated that they had a large proportion of staff on contract and that was the actual figure based on the contracts that would be maturing during the period. He said that depending on when the staff was hired that figure would change from year to year because the contract would generally be for two years. He said that there may be a couple staff that would be there for shorter or longer periods but was generally two years depending on when the anniversary of the contract came up. Subhead 60420 4210. The Member for the Third District stated that he was interested in knowing what the hospital did to prepare persons to work there. He queried whether the hospitals student leave program was similar to Governments programme.
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4211. The Ag.CEO stated that it was a similar programme where they identified critical areas where they needed people to be trained. He said from among the staff they looked at people who could be trained and be matriculated into the programs. He said that once this happened it went through a process which involved the Board and then persons would receive study leave. He stated that the terms were usually half salary for the time plus the tuition and other benefits which were given to the applicants. 4212. The Member for the Third District enquired whether half salary was for the full period or after the first year. 4213. The Ag.CEO stated that it was for the full period of study. 4214. The Member for the Third District queried what happened with other statutory bodies. 4215. The Ag.CEO stated that he could not say about other statutory bodies. He stated that with Government he knew that it was the first year on full salary and the balance on half. 4216. The Member for the Third District queried how the hospital got away with this. 4217. The Ag.CEO stated that it was a decision of the board that was approved and past some time ago. 4218. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the Board did not have to follow Governments policies. He stated that the Act stated that for those employees who were transferred from the Government services to the Health Services Authority, conditions must not be less favourable than those in Government. He further stated that they could create a different system for employees who were not transferred. 4219. The Member for the 8th District queried about the $146,000. 4220. The Ag. CEO stated that that included the half salary and the tuition and also other payments such as housing. He stated that there were six students out presently. He stated that the salaries were not included.
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4221. The Member for the Third District enquired the kind of study persons were currently doing. 4222. The Ag. CEO stated that they had a doctor presently studying Emergency Medicine, Social Work, Bio medical, Emergency Medical Service and Pharmacy. He stated that there was one at the University of the West Indies, Mona Campus, another at Devry studying Biomedical, another in Florida studying Emergency Paramedics and one at Jamaica doing Pharmacy. Subhead 60500 4223. The Member for the Third District queried about the $145,000.00. 4224. The Ag.CEO stated that the equipment cost included advertising, refund of tickets, shipment. He stated that the contract also included tickets for spouse and dependants so those expenses came under that subhead. 4225. The Member for the Third District enquired about the size of their Human Resources Staff. 4226. The Ag.CEO said that it was around six. 4227. The Member for the Third District enquired whether that department was responsible for the recruitment. 4228. The Ag.CEO stated that the department was responsible for the recruitment of staff, employee assistance, looking after the enumeration, processing payroll, gratuities and other HR related expenses. 4229. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired about the care in Virgin Gorda. He stated that a number of persons had been complaining about a clinic that provided private care in Virgin Gorda. He said that when persons go to that facility for care and then go to the local clinic for follow up care, they were being denied treatment by the persons offering the service at the clinic. He stated that the issue with our citizens coming to Peebles Hospital in the back of a boat is a very disturbing situation. He !"#$%+'"%&'%"#$%

stated that he was aware that an ambulance boat was purchased some years ago to provide that service but was not being used. 4230. The Ag.CEO stated that it had been a longstanding issue in terms of the emergency evacuation from Virgin Gorda. He stated that a few years ago when this boat was retrofitted it was a new boat and they requested Health to give advice on how the boat should be configured and then the boat eventually came. He stated that they were then told that the boat was not for Health evacuation. He said that he believed it was located at Shipping Registry and he did not know whether the issue was with the crew. He stated that in the meantime they were trying to negotiate with the local captains for an arrangement to bring people over apart from bringing them over on the ferry. He said that the issue was funding. 4231. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired about the reason for purchasing the boat. 4232. The Ag.CEO stated that his understanding was that it was a multi-purpose boat to be used by numerous Departments, one of them being Health. He said that after it was purchased, it was decided that it was not appropriate to be used for Health. 4233. The Minister for Education and Culture queried why the boat could not be used for that purpose. 4234. The PS stated that what she understood was that there was no crew on duty during the evening hours to operate that vessel. She said that when an emergency call came in, a crew would have to be raised and then get to whatever sister island it was and bring the patient back. She stated that we could appreciate the amount of time that was lost. She stated that whatever justification was made for having that vessel equipped, further arrangements were needed to be put in place and she believed that the Ministry of Health was interested in seeing a network of helipads established that would be able to provide more efficient evacuation services.

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4235. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the boat was purchased during two previous administrations and it was supposed to be stationed in Virgin Gorda and operated by Fire and Rescue. He further stated that the boat had fire fighting capabilities and Fire and Rescue was to take over the management of that boat and it was to be stationed in Virgin Gorda. He further stated that he did not know what had happened during the last five years at it relates to the boat. 4236. The Minister for Education and Culture suggested that they had sufficient proof as to what the boat was being used for. He stated that he found it hard to see any use for that boat being more important than the lives of our citizens on Virgin Gorda. 4237. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that as Minister he had been speaking to the Premier to see if they could get the boat to do what it was purchased to do. 4238. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired about their figure for receivables. 4239. The Ag.CEO stated that he did not have the exact amount but it was in the order of 12 million dollars. 4240. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired whether that excluded those who were exempted. The Ag.CEO stated yes. 4241. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired about the older invoices. 4242. The Ag.CEO stated that they had from 2004 forward. 4243. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired why the money was not being collected. 4244. The Ag.CEO stated that in terms of the information that was collected at that point in time in terms of names, aliases and addresses there was some general delivery which came back undelivered. He stated that there were people who died, left the territory and others who couldnt pay.
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4245. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired how many out of the 12 million represented persons that could not pay. 4246. The Ag.CEO stated that he did not have that figure. 4247. The Minister for Education and Culture asked what determined whether someone could not pay. 4248. The Ag.CEO stated that there was not a defined process. He stated that some people paid and some others did not. He stated that there was an indigent list handled by Social Development and on that there was a criteria to see that it was used at the hospital. Subhead 60200 4249. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about the salaries and that there was no amount in the budget. 4250. The Ag.CEO stated that those were the explanations of the subheads so 60200 was merged into 60300 so the salaries would be there and that the note should be updated. 4251. The Member for the Third District enquired whether that was deliberate. 4252. The Ag.CEO stated that he did not think it was deliberate. He said that salaries were merged into 60300 where previously 60200 would have had the salaries for those officers. 4253. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether that would apply to 60510. 4254. The Ag. CEO stated that it was correct and that they no longer had officers on wages. 4255. The Member for the Third District enquired about the subhead regarding prescription drugs. He inquired about the $1, 019,000.00 which was almost $200,000.00 more than last year. He stated that he did not see the revenues on the prescription drugs.
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4256. The Ag. CEO stated it would be under hospital fees. 4257. The Member for the Third District enquired if they recovered half of what was spent on medication. 4258. The Ag.CEO stated that because of the exemptions he would say that they recruited much less than half of what was spent in prescription medications. 4259. The Member for the Third District enquired whether a major percentage of fees collected at the hospital was for medication. 4260. The Ag.CEO stated that the main revenue earners were the Imaging Department, Pharmacy and Lab in addition to the inpatients. 4261. The Member for the Third District enquired whether there was a base rate charged for stay at the hospital. 4262. The Ag.CEO stated that the cost was $25.00 a night. 4263. The Member for the Third District queried what that included. 4264. The Ag.CEO stated that it included everything such as the utilities, the bed, the doctor, nurses, and food. He said that it was $40.00 for semi-private and $50.00 for private. 4265. The Member for the Third District queried whether he knew what people paid elsewhere in the Caribbean. 4266. The Ag.CEO stated that if we looked at St.Thomas and Puerto Ricos rates, we were talking about $1100/$1200 a day. 4267. The Member for the Third District stated that if the people who had insurance could not pay then the insurance company should pay because their policies were fully funded.

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4268. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that we paid Bupa approximately nine million and they paid out claims of approximately 5.3 million based on the claims information that came before us. 4269. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired when last was the rate increased. 4270. The Ag.CEO stated that those rates were from the 70s or the 80s. 4271. The Member for the Third District stated that he was told last week that there were certain questions about the recruitment of staff for the new facility. He asked about the strategy. 4272. The Ag.CEO stated that in terms of recruitment for the new hospital that was part of the contract for Inter Health Canada. He stated that they came up with a strategy which was part of the second phase and that there was a third phase to implement the plan for the new hospital which would have included staffing so recruitment of staff would have been included in that contract. 4273. The Member for the Third District queried whether the contract that dealt with the recruitment of staff to open the new hospital was not signed. 4274. The Ag.CEO stated that he believed the last phase of the contract which had to do with commissioning was on hold pending the completion of the new hospital. 4275. The Member for the Third District queried whether there were enough on hand to staff the new hospital on opening day. 4276. The Ag.CEO stated that they did not have that staff on hand based on the current draft in which they had for the new hospital. 4277. The Member for the Third District queried their plans for recruiting staff for the commissioning of the new hospital.

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4278. The Ag.CEO stated that the recruitment of staff for commissioning of the new hospital was part of the last phase of the contract with Inter-Health. He stated that it was placed on hold pending a firm completion date for the new hospital so the commissioning works backward from the completion date. He said that without having a firm completion date, that section of the contract was placed on hold so once you have that then you could work back and all of those items could be implemented which included recruitment of staff. 4279. The Member for the Third District queried what the first phase was about. 4280. The Ag.CEO stated that the first phases were about assessment, then coming up with the clinical strategy, staffing plan, various policies and procedures that would be required to run the new hospital. 4281. The Member for the Third District enquired whether he had any idea what the compliment of staff would be like. 4282. The Ag.CEO stated that he had a draft staffing drafting strategy but it had not yet been presented to the Minister. 4283. The Member for the Third District queried whether it was approved. 4284. The Ag.CEO referred to it as a draft staffing strategy. 4285. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that it would be fair for the Minister to have sight of it before it became public knowledge. 4286. The Member for the Third District queried the prospective date for completion. 4287. The Ag.CEO stated that he thought it would be best dealt under the capital under the Ministry.

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4288. The Member for the Third District enquired whether Inter-Health Canada gave any indication as to how much notice they needed before the commissioning day in order to start recruiting. 4289. The PS stated that as soon as the construction resumes Inter-Health or the Commissioning firm would work closely with the contracting team throughout the construction period so all of the activity in terms of recruitment and training would take place within five or six months of completion date. 4290. The Member for the Third District queried whether a contract was already signed for the project. 4291. The PS stated yes and they would be happy to discuss that project during the discussion of Capital programme. 4292. The Member for the Sixth District queried how many dentists were presently working. 4293. The Ag.CEO stated that there was one general dentist and one orthodontist. 4294. The Member for the Sixth District enquired whether that was enough. 4295. The Ag.CEO stated that it was not enough and that there was one vacancy for one dentist. He said a full staff would be two general dentists plus the orthodontist. 4296. The Member for the Sixth District queried whether two dentists would be sufficient taking into consideration the school children and the general public. 4297. The Ag.CEO stated that the school children were one of the core clients. He stated that they do preventative dentistry, screening in the schools, fluoride treatments. He further stated that they had two dentists and a hygienist and dental nurses as well. He said that you could always utilize more staff.

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4298. The Member for the Sixth District stated that she was asking because sometimes it took six months to get an appointment at the dentist. 4299. The Ag. CEO stated that you would find a similar situation in the Private Sector. 4300. The Member for the Fifth District queried whether Inter-Health Canada would be making recommendations for staffing to the hospital or whether it would be left up to the Authority. 4301. The Ag.CEO stated that in terms of the staffing strategy, Inter-Health worked with the staff at the Health Services Authority to come up with the Clinical Services Plan. He further stated that the Clinical Services Plan determines what the staffing requirement was and in coming up with the staffing requirement they would have also worked with the staff at the Health Services Authority. He stated that the Health Services Authority staff would have been part of developing the plan, sign it off and then it would have gone to the Ministry or the Committee who would also sign off. He said that it was a collaborative approach. Subhead 60540 4302. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried how that funding worked and who qualified for housing assistance. 4303. The Ag.CEO stated that housing assistance was given to persons who were recruited from outside of the territory on contract. He stated that this would include mostly clinical staff. 4304. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired how many persons were on the assistance program. 4305. The Ag.CEO stated that he could not speak for the specific number but that it was mentioned earlier that a fair number of their staff were on contract, particularly the clinical. He said that all of those who were on contract would be receiving those allowances.
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Subhead 60500 4306. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried what was involved in recruitment cost. 4307. The Ag.CEO stated that when they hired staff from overseas, they had to pay their airfare. He said included in the contract was their spouse and dependants, the shipping of personal effects, advertising of the position. He further stated that they also gave them assistance with the hotel for a couple days upon arrival in the Virgin Islands to give them time to get their housing. 4308. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the airfare was return or one way. 4309. The Ag.CEO stated that in the contracts they had a returned airfare. 4310. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried how our recruitment program compare to recruitment programmes in other Caribbean islands. 4311. The Ag.CEO stated that this was the standard in the Virgin Islands which was similar to the contracts when Government recruits from overseas. 4312. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about a person having five children, if only two children were paid for. 4313. The Ag.CEO stated that they paid for two children. 4314. Territorial Member Archibald C Christian stated that there were concerns raised about the high recruitment cost. He stated that in addition to housing there was a general feeling that if we were going to recruit someone into the Territory they would be paid a decent salary so that they could pay their airfare and housing. He stated that this would get rid of much of the paper work and the time consumed involved in this process. He further stated that he did not think the system was a hundred percent efficient.
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4315. The PS stated that this was modeled off of Central Government. She said that the thinking of the time was that when you increased the base salary at the level where people could afford all of these services, and then twenty percent is paid on that in terms of gratuity which has since changed. She said that there had been effort to place allowances in the contract because gratuity was not paid on allowances. 4316. The Member for the Sixth District enquired the amount of allowance paid. 4317. The Ag.CEO stated that it was $375.00 for staff a month and medical officers were $486.00 a month and medical specialist were $594.00 per month. Subhead 61810 4318. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the amount for legal expenses in 2012 included any legal expenses for any cases taking place with respect to the hospital project. 4319. The Ag.CEO stated that the legal expenses dealt with cases against the hospital. 4320. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether there were cases pending against the hospital. 4321. The Ag.CEO stated that there was a big issue that was settled recently which fell under this financial year and a case from several years ago that was on going. Subhead 62700 4322. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried about the Health Information System. 4323. The Ag.CEO stated that they did a request for proposal last year and they got back some proposals for a comprehensive health information system. He stated that they ran their accounts on quick books, JD Edwards and there was also some work done manually and that it was a hybrid system. He stated that it did not include the HR functions, administrative or clinical. He said that the purpose of that request for proposal was to have a comprehensive system. He said that they got back four bids !"#$%+("%&'%"#$%

which ranged from 1.0 million to 3.8 million dollars to implement system. He stated that they budgeted five hundred thousand dollars this year to allow for a decision and then the beginning of implementation of the comprehensive health system. He said that it was also important to give information on pricing and costing to monitor volumes and key management. 4324. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether this had a billing component in it. 4325. The Ag.CEO stated yes and the comprehensive health information system would include all of the financial, administrative system and clinical systems. 4326. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired about whether the company was a reputable company. 4327. The Ag.CEO stated that they had four companies that bid on the project because they did not make a selection: one based on funding issues. 4328. The Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the four that they had were shortlisted. 4329. The Ag.CEO stated yes and that they did background check on those companies and in the bidding process they would have had to give them certain information on the companies themselves. 4330. The Member for the Eighth District queried whether they were in collaboration with the National Health Insurance scheme. 4331. The Ag.CEO stated that in terms of their discussion and decision about purchasing their health and information system the compatibility with the National Health Insurance System was critical as the health services would be one of the major providers of care. He stated that when the request for proposal was done, it was for a comprehensive system which not only included the comprehensive system. He stated that they pulled out the Health Services system out of the request for proposal. !"#$%+#$%&'%"#$%

4332. The Member for the Eighth District enquired whether that system was going to be specially built for Health Services. 4333. The Ag.CEO stated that most of those packages were off of the shelf and that there were several established companies that did those kinds of things. He stated that there might have been a level of customisation and tweaking required for the specifics of the BVI environment. He stated that they asked for a web-based system which would reduce the requirements for hardware servers and also what could also run the software on. 4334. The Member for the Eighth District queried whether companies providing those quotes were companies with external component or all internal. 4335. The Ag.CEO stated that they had three overseas companies and one local company in collaboration with an overseas company. Subhead 61420 4336. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whose property they rented from and what was being stored. The Ag.CEO stated R&R Malone. 4337. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether there was a lease and how long. 4338. The Ag.CEO stated that there was a proposed five year lease that had not been signed. 4339. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether they occupied the space. 4340. The Ag.CEO stated that they occupied the space. 4341. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether there were arrears. 4342. The Ag. CEO stated yes that they had some arrears on that property. 4343. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired what was being stored at the facility.
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4344. The Ag.CEO stated that they stored mainly medical supplies for the hospital. He stated that there is annexed space but that was not used because at the time there was consideration for the future use of the space and that it fell under the Capital of the Ministry of Health. He stated that they did not have access to utilize the space. 4345. The Minister for Education and Culture queried whether they considered other locations when considering additional space. 4346. The Ag.CEO stated that at the time that was the only space available. He stated that they checked various locations throughout the Territory. 4347. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried about the storage of medical supplies. He enquired whether that type of accommodation was best used to store the medical supplies. 4348. The Ag.CEO stated that the location had backup electricity and air condition so the supplies were adequately stored. He stated that the main concern was the distance. Subhead 61220 4349. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried about their electricity costs. He enquired whether this amount covered the cost of electricity in all of the facilities that came under their care. The Ag.CEO stated that that was correct. 4350. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether they were looking at the types of lights and in an effort to save the Government some money, if they were looking at the types of lighting and air-condition that could be used. 4351. The Ag.CEO stated that most of the lighting was fluorescent and when they recently redid the air-condition unit at the old hospital they used a VRV unit which could scale up and down. He stated that they had a campaign last year by turning off the lights and air-condition when not in office. 4352. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether they would be undertaking any further improvements based on the projected completion date of 18!"#$%+#&%&'%"#$%

24 months. He queried whether the public could expect to see some more improvements to the existing hospital. 4353. The Ag.CEO stated that they had an on-going project with the Ministry of Health where they were looking at the area in the old building where the old A&E and lab used to be. He stated that they reconfigured that to give some additional space for outpatient clinics. He said that right now outpatient clinics had insufficient space for waiting and they were expanding into where the old A&E was and the Health Services were working on that project. He stated that they also were going to do some improvements to the Medical ward which was in dire need of improvement and also to the reception. He further said that they had a project in Virgin Gorda to sort out the bathroom facilities and to expand some of the facilities there as well. 4354. He said that on an on-going basis with funding resources they sought to do some improvements in the facilities. 4355. The Member for the Third District enquired whether they had any idea about what would happen to the old building. 4356. The Ag.CEO stated that no decision had been taken on that so he could not comment. 4357. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that he thought it was a decision for the Government. He stated that the whole idea was to turn the old building into an outpatient clinic, administration and rental space for doctors. 4358. The Member for the Fifth District enquired about the training plans for the hospital staff. 4359. The Ag.CEO stated that the Ministry of Education and Culture had a scholarship program and there were a number of nurses on training. He stated that their scholarship program was specifically for employees but the Ministry of Education would target young persons and the general public that were eligible.

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4360. The Ag.CEO stated that the whole process needed to be coordinated. He stated that they also had nurse trainees as young persons out of the community and were also given scholarships to study nursing. 4361. The Member for the Fifth District queried whether there were some currently on study leave. 4362. The Ag.CEO stated that there were four on board. 4363. The Member for the Third District queried about the obstacles faced with persons getting into nursing schools. 4364. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the issue was students doing general science when they should have been doing chemistry and biology. He further stated that general science was not going to get students into a nursing programme. He said that a team needs to go to the high school and explain to the students the requirements for pursuing the field of study in nursing. 4365. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether they were working to the benefits of all concerned. He queried whether there were any challenges with the new hours. 4366. The Ag.CEO stated that there were always challenges and we had to work around them. He stated that the visiting hours were changed to be 11 a.m. to 8 p.m. so the doctors rounds are scheduled at a different time to try to accommodate. 4367. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether they experienced any improvements with those new times. 4368. The Dir. Hospital Services stated that the visiting hours were changed to accommodate the visitors outside. She stated that their plan was that patients needed to get visitors which would be good for the healing process. She said that between 11 a.m. and 12 p.m. limited how many people could come and see their family member while broadening it gave everyone an opportunity to work. She further stated that !"#$%+#(%&'%"#$%

there were some challenges initially but some stuff had been put in place and things had smooth out over time. She stated that they were much better than how they were when they rolled it out about six months ago. 4369. The Chairman thanked the panel for coming and answering questions posed by Members.

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HEAD 650 Present:

MINISTRY OF EDUCATION AND CULTURE

Dr. Marcia Potter Mr. Ishmael Scatliffe Miss Tasha Bertie Mrs. C. Jovita Scatliffe Mr. Jeremiah Frett Mr. Violet DeCastro

PSMEC Chairman, BVI Recreation Trust Ag. Deputy Secretary, MEC Financial & Planning Officer Past Treasurer, BVI Recreation Trust Past Secretary, BVI Recreation Trust

Subhead 62700 Recreation Trust 4370. The Deputy Chairman welcomed everyone and asked persons present to give their name and positions for the record to which they complied. 4371. The Member for the First District enquired whether the Chairman of the Recreation Trust had sufficient funds to carry out the work of the Recreation Trust. He also queried regarding the challenges that the Recreation Trust experienced. 4372. The Member for the Third District enquired whether a budget was prepared by the Recreation Trust. 4373. The Chairman of the Recreation Trust replied that he prepared budgets in the past. However, no reference was made to them and he discontinued. 4374. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian, enquired how the Recreation Trust got its funds and how much they received. 4375. The Deputy Chairman and Member for the Fifth District stated that the Recreation Trust received a grant. In 2011 the Trust received $750,000.
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4376. In 2004 when he became Chairman of the Recreation Trust it received a budget of $300,000. When he researched the records he discovered that the Recreation Trust previously received funds in the amount of $800,000. When he was appointed as Chairman the focus was only placed on the AO Shirley Recreation Grounds with two members of staff. He reviewed the Act and found out that the Trust was responsible to deal with all of the recreation grounds within the territory. Some of the areas were forests and he began to prepare the grounds to make them ready for use and he hired twenty-two part-time staff to maintain the grounds. Most of the facilities were lit and electricity had to be paid. The Recreation Trust had to prioritize how the funds would be spent, because of the limited funds. On occasions the electricity was cut and he asked the Ministry of Finance to assist with paying the bill. In 2005, $100,000 was approved for the Sea Cows Bay field and the Member for the Third District indicated that he wanted the money to be placed under the Recreation Trust. The Trust was able to complete the wok with the funds and since that time the funds were increased from $300,000 to $400,000. In 2011 the Recreations funds were increased to $750,000 and he tried to address most of the maintenance issues on the recreation grounds. The Chairman added that the salary paid to the part time workers ranged from $300 to $700 per month. There are five full time workers, one person works at the Old Recreation Grounds and four persons work at the Multi-purpose Complex. The staffs hours are staggered to enable them to carry out the mandates of the Trust. A decision was made to use the bar in the Multi-Sports Complex themselves and the usage fee for certain activities has been reduced. However, the attendance at certain activities has decreased. 4377. The Member for the First District enquired what would be a comfortable sum to operate the Recreation Trust. 4378. The Chairman of the Recreation Trust stated that $1.5 million would be an appropriate amount to manage the Trust. It would allow the

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4379. Recreation Trust to improve the facilities at the Belle Vue Gym, Purcell, Old Recreation Grounds, Sea Cows Bay Benjamin Romney Park and Huntums Ghut. He added that the Multi-Sports Complex had quite a few issues that needed urgent attention. The staff completed most of the repairs themselves and only the materials had to be purchased. 4380. The Member for the First District enquired whether the Chairman of the Recreation Trust was paid. 4381. The Chairman stated that he was not paid. 4382. The Member for the First District stated that some of the lights at the Capoons Bay field were blown and needed to be addressed. He had also received numerous

complaints about the lighting at the Basket Ball court at the Benjamin Romney Park and the Carrot Bay grounds. He also suggested that a timer be placed on these grounds to reduce the electricity bill. The Isabella Morris School had a problem with wires hanging down and needed urgent attention. 4383. The Member for the First District stated that the Benjamin Romney was his grandfather and that the park was named before he was elected as a District Representative. He enquired regarding the target date for opening this facility. 4384. The PSEC replied that she did not have an opening date, but hoped that the ceremony could be held sooner rather than later. 4385. The Member for the First District enquired whether it was possible to appoint an Oversight Committee to oversee the work. He said that the Committee was needed in light of the increased number of persons who used the grounds. 4386. The PSEC stated that she would consider this suggestion. 4387. The Member for the First District asked whether plans were still in place to erect a statute at the Benjamin Romney Park.
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4388. The PSEC replied in the affirmative. She added that the membership of the Recreation Trust Committee had expired and the Ministry was in the process of appointing a new Committee. 4389. The Member for the Third District enquired how the Ministry would go about appointing the members of a new Committee. 4390. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that the law stipulated how the membership of the Committee should be appointed. 4391. The Member for the Third District queried whether the Minister for Education and Culture would request a nomination from him. 4392. The Minister for EC stated that the Member for the Third District was free to submit his nomination. 4393. The Member for the First District stated that Cabinet approved a committee for naming the Capoons Bay field and he requested that the committee be activated to deal with this matter. 4394. The Minister for EC stated that the Ministrys budget had been reduced and he was not in a position to make any promises. He added that the Ministry was in the process of reviewing all contracts and work being done. 4395. The Member for the First District enquired who was the Project Manager for the Benjamin Romney Park. 4396. The PSEC stated that STO Enterprises and SAA Architecture were the contractors. 4397. The Member of the Third District asked if the work was completed. 4398. The PSEC stated that the water park is still to be completed. He added that the project was still in process from last year.

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4399. The Member for the First District asked whether the cameras on the Romney Park are working. 4400. The FPO replied that to her knowledge the cameras are working. They are linked to the Police Station and no report was made that they were not functioning. 4401. The Minister for EC enquired what was the cost of the work to be completed. 4402. The FPO stated that the approximate cost of the remaining work is $60,000, but she would verify the figure. 4403. The Member for the First District asked if the minor works were charged under the head. He added that the scope of the work was done based on a decision made by the Cabinet for the project. 4404. The Member for the First District enquired whether the funds were for one year, or if it was for a period of time. 4405. The FPO stated that before payments were made, the Project Manager had to verify all the works to ensure that they were getting value for money. The name of the Project Managers were Messrs Deon Stoutt and Steve Augustine. 4406. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the fees included the funds approved by Cabinet. 4407. The FPO stated that separate funds were approved to be paid to Mr. Steve Augustine. His contract subsequently came to an end and was not renewed. 4408. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian asked who would verify the completion of works. 4409. The FPO stated that the she would verify the work. 4410. The Member for the First District enquired if the Recreation Trust was experiencing security challenges with the Recreation Grounds in the afternoons.
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4411. The Chairman of the Recreation Trust stated that he was informed that the AO Recreation Grounds were no longer the responsibility of the Recreation Trust. 4412. The Member for the Third District stated that the reason that the AO Recreation field was transferred to Government was because of the OECS function that was held on the grounds. 4413. The Chairman stated that he was aware of that, but he did not understand what happened after the OECS function. He said the grounds were locked at 8:00 p.m. He also received a letter from the Ministry. As far as the law is concerned the Recreation Trust should be in charge of the AO Shirley Grounds, but he is not sure what the position is at this time. 4414. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked whether the report was prepared by the Chairman, to which he responded in the affirmative. 4415. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that it was a good report. He asked if the reports were the same. 4416. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired how recent were the photographs. 4417. The Chairman stated that they were taken in 2011. 4418. The Member for the Second District stated that the Recreation Trust Report was not laid on the table and it was therefore not considered to be official information and had to be used with caution. 4419. The Minister for EC requested that the Chairman explain the photos based on his recent visits to the Recreation Grounds. 4420. The Chairman stated that Appendix I, II and III were rectified. 4421. The Member for the Sixth District stated that there were no seating at the Baughers Bay Court and this needed to be addressed.
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4422. The Chairman stated that the sewerage issue at Baughers Bay was fixed. In terms of the electrical work, the Trust has employed an Electrician to carry out electrical work. He said they paid for cleaning the Huntums Ghut Court, but did not receive the

electricity bill and the Trust was not aware who paid the bill. 4423. The Minister for C&W stated that he was very disappointed with the state of affairs of the Recreation Grounds. He enquired whether it was a lack of money or a lack of

vision for developing sports. The Government spent $12 million dollars on the Multisports Complex and the building needed to be maintained. The recreation facilities also needed to be upgraded. He stated that this country operated on a huge budget and that they did not pay enough attention to sports. He stated that the recreation facilities need to be upgraded. He added that people are invited here to visit this territory for sporting events and this country also sends people to other countries and they see good recreation facilities. It was his view that the Government did not have the will to put the funding in place to improve the recreation grounds. A comprehensive look needed to be taken at developing our facilities and also to handle international participation on our recreational grounds. He added that sports should have a lot of importance and this Government was lagging behind. This territory needed to think about where we are going with our sports facilities as sports plays an important role in the development our youths and the territory. 4424. Territorial Member, Hon. Archibald Christian, stated that he was in full agreement with the Minister of Communications & Works. He added that the report had a number of concerns and that a discussion needed to be held with the Chairman to discuss the way forward. He stated that he was appalled at how the recreation grounds were treated. Persons needed to be placed in charge to manage the facilities and the rules needed to be displayed. He added that if the territory was going to embark on Sports Tourism it needed to have the proper facilities to house the events and attention should be paid to these matters. If it needed $1.5 million to do so it should be approved.

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4425. The Member for the Third District stated that he was concerned with the statement made by the Minister for Communications & Works. He was also concerned with the affairs of the Ministry of EC because they have responsibility for the youths and this was a serious issue. He stated that the Government continued to build facilities and did not maintain them. 4426. The Minister for C&W asked the Chairman what, in his view, was the reason that these matters were not being addressed. 4427. The Chairman stated that the programmes should be used to address issues affecting the youths. He spoke to the managers of some of the youth programmes regarding the behaviour of the youths. The programmes should be designed to help to develop the children and to guide their behaviour. In 2004 the Recreation Trust made great efforts to fix the Belle Vue Gym and two weeks later the facility was in bad shape. Some of the youths pulled out the lights when they met others playing. He said the Recreation Trust did not have the funds to employ persons to work eight hours a day to maintain the facilities. 4428. Territorial-At-Large Member, Hon. Archibald Christian, enquired whether persons who came to use the facility were informed about the rules and the consequences of breaking such rules. 4429. The Chairman stated that there are no consequences when persons did not follow the rules. He said when persons were informed about the penalties that they would face they spoke to the politicians and nothing was done. 4430. The Member for the Eighth District enquired what type of revenue generation the Recreation Trust had. 4431. The Chairman stated that he had been trying to get an audit from the Recreation Trust. He has received statements for two years. He submitted these to the Ministry and he cannot get the auditors to submit any further up-to-date audits.
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4432. The Past Treasurer stated that he had a discussion with the Audit Department. The last time the audit was done was in 2006. He said that it was the responsibility of the Recreation Trust to submit the financial report to the Audit Department before the audits are completed. 4433. The Past Treasurer said he was appointed as Treasurer of the Recreation Trust two years ago. He recommended that proper financial statements and an annual report be completed for the Trust. He said he needed to get an external firm to capture the expenditure to prepare an accurate budget. Deloitte & Touche was paid $14,000 to prepare audits for two years. They said it would cost more money to go back to 2007 and the Trust did not have the resources to go back. Therefore the reports were made for 2010 and 2011. 4434. The Member for the Second District enquired whether the Trust received any other funding besides funds it received from Government. 4435. The Past Treasurer stated that the Trust received $450 per month from Cable & Wireless. The Trust also receive funds when the facility is used and the concession stand generates revenue. However, the bulk of the Trusts funds came from the Government. 4436. The Member for the Eighth District enquired about the amount of money that was raised at the concession stands. 4437. The Past Treasurer stated that he did not know the amount of money raised at the concession stand. He discussed having a structure in place but this did not materialize. 4438. The Minister for EC asked what was the relationship between the Recreation Trust and the Ministry of E&C. 4439. The Chairman stated the Recreation Trust is a statutory body under the Ministry of E&C and they report to the Ministry.

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4440. The Minister for EC enquired whether meetings were held with the Ministry to ensure that everything was in order. 4441. The Chairman responded that meetings were held with the Ministry of E&C. 4442. The Member for the Eighth District enquired regarding the fees for the Multi-Sports Complex. 4443. The Past Treasurer stated that the fee was $1,5000 for non sporting events and for nonprofit organizations the fee was $800. 4444. The Member for the Eighth District enquired whether the fees were documented. 4445. The Chairman stated that he assumed that the Past Treasurer would have reported and turned over to the new Treasurer. 4446. The Past Treasurer stated that he should have been more assertive in finding out about the fees. However, the Board did function the way it should and did not meet regularly and the sharing of information was lacking. He added that there was a breakdown in communication and this caused frustration at times. It was also

uncomfortable for him to sign cheques without proper information. 4447. The Member for the Eighth District enquired who owned the East End Park. 4448. The Chairman stated that Mr. Samuel Hodge and Mr. William owned the East End Park. 4449. The Member for the Eighth District enquired whether the Trust had a proper lease for these properties. 4450. The Chairman stated that when he was appointed as Chairman in 2005, he received a list with the names of the persons who would be paid. He gave the book with the names to the Treasurer. He applied for a separate account to deal with the finances.

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The Recreation Trust did not have an office and he decided to use one of the storage rooms at the Multi-Sports as an office. 4451. The Member for the Eighth District enquired how long since he was appointed as Chairman. 4452. The Chairman stated that he has served as Chairman since 2004. 4453. The Member for the Eighth District asked whether they made a representation to the Ministry for funds. 4454. The Chairman replied no. He said the Recreation Trust was a statutory body and survived with the funds that it received. 4455. The Member for the Eighth District enquired whether the Chairman should have submitted a plan to Government. 4456. The Chairman stated that the Treasurer was asked to produce a strategic plan. 4457. The Member for the Third District stated that from January December, 2011 the Trust was allotted $392,000. The electricity bill was $393,000. He asked how much was allotted to the Multi-Sports complex. 4458. The Chairman stated that the electricity bill for the Multi-purpose complex was between $12,000 - $13,000 per month. 4459. The Member for the Third District enquired if the electricity bill for the Multi-Sports Complex was $150,000, how much did they spend to maintain the facility. He also enquired how much money was owed on the electricity bill. 4460. The Chairman replied that $163,000 is owed to the BVI Electricity Corporation. He added that since he submitted the Recreation Report they received a subvention. There are a number of outstanding bills including the payroll which was $22,000. 4461. The Member for the Third District requested that the Treasurer explain the payroll.
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4462. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that in 2011 budget, $750,000 was approved for the Recreation Trust. However, the budget showed that $350,000 was received. Anyone would ask where the balance of the fund went. He stated that the Recreation Trust must receive these funds. included an Accounts Receivable section. 4463. The Past Treasurer stated that the fourth quarter subvention was received this week. 4464. The Member for the Second District asked how was it possible that funds from 2011 could be paid in 2012. 4465. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked whose name are on the assets of the Trust. 4466. The Treasurer replied that the assets of the Trust were in the name of the Crown. 4467. The Minister for Heath and Social Development enquired whether this was the first time that this was happening. 4468. The Past Treasurer stated that according to the Act it should be vested in the Trust. 4469. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that the new Committee would be established and the Ministry would work closely with the Board and inform them of the expectations and the Trust would be monitored. He added that he heard the concerns and would take then into advisement. 4470. The Member for the Third District enquired who were on staff and the salary that they received to which the Chairman complied. 4471. The Chairman explained that the staff at the Multi Purpose Sports Complex worked for five hours, and their hours were held until when functions were held and the staff would work the extra hours during that period. The report should have

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4472. The Member for the Eighth District enquired whether the workers for the Multi Purpose Sports Complex were local. 4473. The Chairman stated that all of the staff was local with the exception of one person. He added that he has not hired anyone for the past few years. 4474. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that this matter should be completed and that the Premier appoint a committee to deal with it. 4475. Territorial Member, attending the meeting. 4476. The Deputy Chairman thanked the panel for appearing at the SFC and for answering questions posed by Members. Archibald C. Christian thanked the Recreation Trust for

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HEAD 650 Present:

MINISTRY OF EDUCATION & CULTURE

Mr. Karl Dawson Dr. Marcia Potter Ms. Ursula Moore Mrs. C. Jovita Scatliffe

President/HLSCC AgPSEC Bursar/HLSCC AgFPOEC

Subhead 62710 H. L. Stoutt Community College 4477. The Deputy Chairman stated welcomed the panel and asked that they state their names to which they complied. 4478. The Member for the Third District asked if there is a copy of the 2012 Budget? 4479. The President replied yes we do have a copy of what we submitted to the Ministry. I didnt have copies for Members at this meeting. 4480. The Member for the Third District asked what was the amount of the subvention. 4481. The President replied 11 million. 4482. The Member for the Third District asked what are your major expense items? 4483. The President replied that would be salaries, I will ask Ms. Moore will give exact figures. 4484. The Bursar replied 2012 the most significant budgeted expenses 4485. Pay Cost Instructors (full time) 4486. Pay Cost instructors (part time)
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2.1 million 596,000 approximately

4487. Pay Cost Support Staff

5.3 million

4488. Those are our most significant pay cost estimates, the next most significant expenses besides pay costs are the capital expenditures Furniture & Equipment Improvements to Capital assets IT $456,000 $122,000 $348,000

4489. The Member for the Third District asked what is the total capital costs budgeted? 4490. The Bursar replied the total for 2012 capital expenditures $1,017,580.00 4491. The President added that this figure is the figure based on what we learned eventually would be available to the college, the initial figure was more than that, but it results in that because we have to make these choices year after year things that needs to be done as far as keeping up to date with technology, we have to cut that budget every year, and maintenance and upkeep we have to cut that every year and its not good as far as the college is concerned. 4492. The Member for the Third District asked if anything is being built at the college? 4493. The Bursar replied that they would agree that most of the capital expenditure items are in the categories of furniture and equipment, improvements to capital assets, motor vehicles and IT equipment those are the capital expenses that can be planned in advance. When it comes to buildings, those are heavily relied on funding; we dont have them included in our plans because we would need to source the external funding before we actually plan on additional funding. 4494. The Member for the Third District asked if they are categorizing motor vehicles as a capital asset?

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4495. The Bursar replied yes because the fixed assets are those assets that continue to be in used for multiple amount of years as oppose to making a distinction for buildings. 4496. The Member for the Third District asked how much staff do you have? 4497. The President replied the full time staff is 165 persons. 4498. The Member for the Third District asked for the break-down of support staff and faculty? 4499. The President replied that there are 35 full time faculty members, typically include or hire another 50-60 staff part time members on a semester basis. 40 50 full-time are persons who work in food and beverage operations, the others would be administrative support and grounds, facilities, maintenance officers as well as administrative officers. 4500. The Member for the Third District asked if the college offers and associates degree and that is as high as it goes? 4501. The President replied yes madam chair. 4502. The Member for the Third District asked what are the limitations to going higher? 4503. The President replied if and when they cross over and offer various degrees has to do with capacity building of the institution. It was started as an authorized offer 2 year degrees, but in the future of the college given the growth of the community and the need to meet those needs, at some point baccaulerate degrees will be offered when we have the capacity to deliver at the quality we want. The excellence in our curriculum must be maintained. A further issue is that we are applying for accreditation with a US accrediting body, we are applying as a 2 year institution and therefore if we apply for a baccalaureate degree we will have to consider that and meet the standards that would be required for a baccalaureate degree granting institution.

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4504. The Member for the Third District asked where do you stand with accreditation and when you become accredited will it be at the associate level? 4505. The President replied the current application is for an associates accreditation 4506. The Member for the Third District asked what is the status with the accreditation? 4507. The President replied there are three main stages: meeting the eligibility

requirements, becoming a candidate and then becoming fully accredited. We are at the stage where we are seeking to become a candidate we did in this process to complete an accreditation readiness report, the accreditation agency that we use has 14 characteristics of excellence, detailing a broad range of activities associated with institutions. We did submit that report last year and the team found on each of the standards that we were incompliance or capable of becoming in compliance within 3 years which would be the time that you would want to become a candidate. We were in compliance with 4 standards, while we could do all the standards, before we became a candidate they wanted to be sure that we were in compliance with more standards before moving forward. We will be submitting a report early next week. On April 9th a team will come to visit, we will then have the results of that visit, the advantage we have now is that last year a first team visited, when the peer group came they assessed us concerning the characteristics and they pointed out weaknesses and things that need to be addressed which formed a good road map for us, we are working hard at addressing those issues to meet the levels for the various standards. 4508. The Member for the Third District asked if the President felt that progress has been made? 4509. The President replied there he is certain that progress has been made and it will be to the advancement and for the improvement of the institution it will impact the house itself for the quality of information that we will be able to present to the house, in terms of the way we present reports.

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4510. The Member for the Third District asked concerning physical structure, are there any concerns with the accreditation? 4511. The President replied no, the team that visited was very impressed with the physical facilities on the campus, they in some ways rival what they have encountered in other places. I think for us, when we talk about looking at physical spaces, we look at capacity we have a space issues; there are further courses and programmes we could offer if we had space. We are not offering baccalaureate degrees but we can have

other organizations work along with us to offer these degrees we have a serious space issue. Its a matter of more space; its a serious issue also of maintaining the space we have. 4512. The Member for the Third District asked is the tuition being paid by the Ministry, is that being paid and what is it? 4513. The President replied there is more than one category as far as tuition, there is tuition, individuals who are eligible for government assistance programme. The money that comes from tuition assistance programme is now in arrears and is a significant loss to the institution. The more we speak with the Minister of Education we will be able to sort out who bears what portion of payments. 4514. The Member for the Third District asked is the tuition being paid by the Ministry, if it is being paid and what is it? 4515. The President replied there is more than one category as far as tuition, there is tuition, individuals who are eligible for government assistance programme. The money that comes from tuition assistance programme is now in arrears and is a significant loss to the institution. The more we speak with the Minister of Education we will be able to sort out who bears what portion of payments. 4516. The Member for the Third District said I am talking about the tuition that government made free there should be no question about what that cost is?
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4517. The Bursar replied that the current outstanding invoice for December 2011 was approximately 1.7 million that covered arrears from 2009 and 2010 and the invoice for 2011 has not been submitted. 4518. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that he was the Minister of Finance when tuition was made free and the whole philosophy of making tuition free is totally different from what he is hearing now. We sat down with the then board and then President and told them we want to make tuition free for any BVIslander who wants to come to HLSCC once they meet the eligibility. We asked what does it take to fund the college with this in mind, a number was given and all the other people who do not qualify will have to pay tuition to the college. 4519. The Member for the Third District asked if the college is to be reimbursed for the tuition paid? 4520. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the full cost was being paid for all activities at the institution. 4521. The Member for the Second District also stated that there was criteria that if student repeat classes they pay for them themselves? 4522. The President said that he would give his understanding of the programmes, 3 categories of funding that the college receives from the Govt. A contract for services, if we train teachers through a franchise agreement with UWI The tuition assistance programme, individuals who qualify about 70-80% of students, the fees that would have been occurred on their behalf that is what we now bill to the government and seek to recover. The whole idea behind the college is one of access, whether the government pays or individual pays, it was never intended for the tuition to fund the college. This is only amounts to 10% of budget. The other 90% is from the governments subvention. I would say however that 10% is still a significant amount. 4523. The Member for the Third District asked the President if that was his understanding?
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4524. The President replied yes. 4525. The Minister for Education and Culture asked how much do you collect for tuition for those students now? 4526. The President said we did not collect any money for tuition assistance programme in 2011. 4527. The Minister for Education and Culture asked how much is outstanding? 4528. The President said it totals in a year about 1.5 million dollars this includes those who participate in the Chartered Management Institute Programme are also covered under this programme. 4529. The Minister for Education and Culture asked what was your budget like between 2003 2007? 4530. The President said that the budget would have been about 14 million because the subvention was about 10.4 million for a number of years. 4531. The Premier asked what does it cost to run the college? 4532. The President replied we projected and requested 19 million. 4533. The Premier asked if everybody was free, how much would it cost to run the college? 4534. The President replied it would be about 16 million. I mentioned 19 million because of how behind we are in respect to some capital aspects. We could offer the service we offering now to everyone for about 16-17 million dollars. The amount for tuition charge that is not tack is about $477,000 for 2012. 4535. The Premier asked is this for other students and whomever? 4536. The President replied it combined with the other piece it would be about 2 million.

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4537. The Premier asked what is the cost of running the college if everybody was free BVIslander and Non BVIslander? 4538. The President replied 16 17 million is the cost to run the college. 4539. The Premier asked if annual subvention should then be around 13 million to break even. 4540. The President replied your line of reason is a bit confusing. 4541. The Premier asked if there is any alumni association or boards that help to raise funding besides the government, have we developed any such funds. 4542. The President replied we are in the process of developing such funds, we are building the database, we are starting with fund-raising and afterwards we move on to trying to get money. The alumni initiative is key, we are looking for larger amounts from private donors, are the small people giving is one of the things they want to know. The board and the college is looking towards the issue of fund-raising. One of the things identified as a capital project was the culinary arts center is nearly completed, the original plans were to training kitchen and the old stone house restaurant would have been restored and used as complementary restaurant for training purposes. Because of funding the project had to be cut down we only have the training kitchen. The board has identified the raising revenue towards the stone kitchen as a complementary to culinary for fund raising. That is one of our main thrust in the coming months. We have tried to make contact with some persons already. We are considering this to be a project that would attract support. 4543. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked about other sources of revenue, Cafeteria, Road Town Bakery, Auditorium etc. do you have any figures for 2011 and what they received? 4544. The Bursar replied we dont have detailed breakdown of other income for 2011 what I have here is the total other income for 2011 that figure is $2,368,019. The other
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income includes the beverage sales, food sales, commission from vending machine and interests, rental of college facilities, textbooks, ticket sales and top up sales. 4545. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if there isnt a breakdown of the Auditorium, Library, Cafeteria, and Road Town Bakery? 4546. The Bursar replied we do have a break down, I did not bring with me for 2011 but I can give the breakdown of 2012 forecast because the 2012 forecasted revenue was based on actuals for 2011. 4547. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what are they? 4548. The Bursar replied beverage sales were $185,000. 4549. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked when you say beverage sale is this for the cafeteria because you have beverage in Road Town as well? 4550. The Bursar replied the beverage sales are in total the Cafeteria as well as Road Town Bakery. For food sales 1 million combined, the rental of college facilities $56,000 other item sales $113,000.00 for text book sales $160,000.00 ticket sales $40,625.00 top up sales $40,000.00. 4551. The Member for the Third District asked what is top up sales 4552. The Bursar replied Top up sales are for cellphones, BMobile, CCT and Digicel 4553. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what is the projected profit? 4554. The Bursar replied we are projecting a loss for those entities. I have a projected revenue total for the book store projected revenue of $264,000 but a projected expense total of $940,000 which is an approximate $600,000 loss. 4555. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what is the projecting this huge loss.

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4556. The Bursar replied for the bookstore the largest amounts are the actual purchase for resale for the stationery supplies and miscellaneous and textbooks. The huge loss pertains to the categories I just identified. Madam chair we looked at the structure of the bookstore, it should have been more profitable, we are addressing this issue by setting the book store day sales goal to look at this cycle of the probability of the book store. We drilled down to the issues, its the day sales outstanding of the inventory that is causing the problems, the average day sales outstanding is approximately 615 days for 2009 673 days in 2010 and 928 in 2011 which said we are buying inventory for the book store but its taking 2 years or longer to turn over the inventory. want to make it profitable so we detailed an analysis by category. 4557. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked where is the inventory coming from primarily. 4558. The Bursar replied they are coming from 3 primary sources which are Signage, Pearson/USA and Pearson/UK and office supplies are on island or Office Max and a lot of our retail from a Camex trade show that is coming up. 4559. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked of the revenues from those facilities is the bookstore the biggest drain right now? 4560. The Bursar replied it seems this way however this is the one we can turn around the easiest. We need to restructure, and change the way we order books and coordinate with faculty and dean to make sure students are in need of books before we order. 4561. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian between the Cafeteria and the Road Town Bakery which one is the most drain. 4562. The Bursar replied both the cafeteria and the Road Town Bakery are the drain. The cafeteria we project 2012 revenue of $539,000 but expenses of $910,000 for the Road Town Bakery income of $727,000 but expenses of 1.2 million dollars. 4563. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what the plan is for those.
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We

4564. The Minister of Education and Culture said that they would work them out in-house and its good to have a Minister who has a background in food and beverage. 4565. The vote of thanks was given by the Minister for Education and Culture. 4566. The Deputy Chairman thanked the panel for answering the questions and concerns raised by the Members.

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HEAD 660 Present:

DEPUTY GOVERNORS OFFICE

Mr. David Archer Mr. Errol George Mr. Julien Johnson Mrs. Kara Penn-Stoutt

Permanent Secretary DGO Director FIA Chief Operating Officer FPODGO

Subhead 62700 Financial Investigation Agency 4567. The Chairman welcomed the members of the FIA team and asked them to state their names to which they complied. 4568. The Director FIA stated that both him and the Chief Operating Officer are extremely grateful to be before the Standing Finance Committee and wished to thank the honorable body for the support given to the FIA in the past as it continues to do its best in helping to protect the vital financial services industry from negative influences associated with white collar crimes which has increased on a global scale following the global economic recession. 4569. Members will notice that the FIAs estimated expenditure as well as its request for additional funding by way of Government subventions have both increased for the financial year 2012 when compared to the previous year 2011. This increase is directly related to the additional responsibility the Agency will take on in the coming months. These responsibilities has to do with anti money laundering supervision of Automobile Dealers, Real Estate Agents, Accountants, Legal Practitioners, Notaries Public, Persons who engage in buying and selling boats, Jewelry Stores and Persons who deal in other high value goods. These entities and individuals are collectively referred to as designated nonfinancial businesses and professionals.
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4570. The Agency is also expected to provide anti money laundering supervision to domestic nonprofit organizations. Though the Agency does not have an accurate count of entity and individual operating between these two sectors to date, he believes they total between 250 to 275. 4571. There is a great deal of work taking place behind the scene, this include work that is being done through the joint anti money laundering committee regarding the designated non-financial businesses and professionals and another group of persons who form part of a small committee that is working on developing the necessary framework for the registration of nonprofit organisations. 4572. The agency is actively involved in the work of both groups due to the fact that it will have the ultimate responsibility for providing supervision for the aforementioned entities. The FIA is currently in the process of taking the necessary steps in These steps include

preparation of taking on these additional responsibilities.

preparation to increase the number of within the agency, which now stands at ten (10) to at least thirteen (13) over the next six to eight months. The additional staff would include a Legal Counsel and two additional persons who would be hired as Anti Money Laundering Compliance Examiners. Once hired the additional members of staff will form part of a compliance unit that would be established within the existing structure of the FIA. This unit will perform the actual duties relating to anti money laundering countering the supervision of the nonprofit organizations as well as designated nonfinancial businesses and professionals. The increase in staff, together with the expected increase in related expenses such as salaries and other related benefits, staff training and a possible increase in rent expenditure are the main contributors to the noticeable increase to the agency s expenditure for the current financial year 2012. Hence the reason why the FIA is requesting an increase in Government subventions so that they are able to adequately cover operational expenditure for the financial year.

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4573. The Member for the First District congratulated the Director, FIA and his team. He stated that he looked back in time when he was told that there is no one qualified to do the job. He wanted to congratulate the team because they kept up the integrity of the Office and has done the Territory well especially with the IPOC case. 4574. The Minister of Health and Social Development sort clarification on the list of businesses under the Anti Money Laundering Counter Terrorist Finances and enquired about whether or not supermarkets were on the list. 4575. The Director, FIA answered that the aforementioned list specifically relates Financial Action Task Force recommendations where the listed businesses and professionals that will be supervised by the FIA is actually contained in one of the forty plus nine of the financial act that was issued by the Financial Action Task Force. 4576. Minister of Health and Social development asked how the FIA plans to deal with Legal Practitioners. The Director, FIA answered that they anticipates that it would be a very contentious issue because there is a paramount issue that will create difficulty. It has to do with client confidentiality. He further stated that there are other options to the FIA supervising the professionals such as having them supervise themselves by having a Secretariat that formulates a code of conduct to guide their activities and the way they operate from their profession. 4577. Minister of Health and Social Development enquired how someone engage in being a Notary Public could be dangerous to society. The Director, FIA answered that Notary Public operate within common law jurisdictions are different to those that operate in civil jurisdictions because in civil law jurisdiction Notary Public handles financial transactions on behalf of clients as oppose to common law jurisdictions where it is almost unheard of or there is very little chance that a Notary Public would engage in such undertakings. At the end of the process the entire anti money laundering

supervision of these entities would be done on a risk base approach.

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4578. The Member for the Eighth District asked if a model for the risk base approach is already developed. The Director, FIA answered that a model for the risk base approach is not developed because they are still in the infancy stages of providing anti money laundering supervision. He further stated that there are laws to be drafted and passed by the House of Assembly before they could commence the supervisory process. 4579. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired as to whether the Director, FIA met with the aforementioned businesses and individuals to get them familiarized with whats going to take place in the future and what is expected of them based on the new initiative. 4580. The Director, FIA stated that the joint anti money laundering committee, of which the FIA is a member, recently completed two draft questionnaires. One is specifically for legal practitioners, accountants and real estate agents while the other questionnaire is for the other entities (jewelry stores, automobile dealers, notaries public etc.). The FIA has contacted persons who will be subject to the supervision to let them know what is being done. The purpose of the questionnaires is to get a sense of their awareness. He further stated that he feels it is a paramount step in getting the level of awareness out. 4581. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian asked if there is a time frame for the process to be completed. The Director, FIA answered that the awareness among real estate agents, accountants and legal practitioners are higher than the other entities. 4582. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian sort clarity on the amount the FIAs budget was in 2011 and what it is expected to be in 2012. The Director, FIA answered that the total expenditure for 2011 totaled $1,154,839.00 while the expected expenditure for 2012 totaled $2,002,251.00, which includes additional staff and associated expenditure, allowances, provision for training, and conferences.

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4583. Minister for Health and Social Development asked of all the businesses added to the list of anti money laundering if an analysis was done to ascertain what effect it would have on commerce. 4584. The Director, FIA answered that no formal analysis was done. The difficulty the FIA is faced with is whether they will move forward with having these entities supervised or making the decision not to. The last mutual evaluation conducted, they were rated partially compliant because there were minimal provisions in the law which actually captured these entities; but the frame work was lacking and this is one of the reasons if not the paramount reason why they need to go ahead before the next evaluation that is scheduled for 2014. The FIA has that window of opportunity where they could have the process in place before the next mutual evaluation. 4585. The Minister for Health and Social Development referred to the Budget Speech and asked if the proposed budget request is not approved, what would be the next step for FIA? 4586. The Director FIA answered that if their proposed budget is not approved it could pose a problem because they feel more secure if they have something that would allow them to continue their operations especially if there is a case similar to the IPOC case where they had to practically drain their budgets to carry out the investigation. It could be difficult if a similar case pops up and there are no financial cushions to rely on. 4587. Minister for Health and Social Development asked if the FIA received any funds from the IPOC funds. The Director FIA answered that they requested funds from the compensation from IPOC twice; but did not receive any. 4588. The Premier said that in cases where there are legal implications there will always be support. 4589. The Director FIA stated that it is always reassuring to hear that there is support when the need arises.
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4590. The Chairman thanked the PSDGO and his team for coming to give information to the SFC.

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HEAD 800 Present:

PENSIONS AND GRATUITIES

Mr. Neil Smith Ms. Anna Rabsatt

Financial Secretary, Ministry of Finance (FS) Ag. Accountant General, Treasury Department (Ag. Acc. Gen)

Ms. Maria Thomas

Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Finance (FPOMOF)

4591. The Chairman thanked the panel for attending the deliberations, and requested that they state their names and positions for the record. 4592. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked that the FS explain the difference between a civil servant and public servant. 4593. The FS stated that Civil Servants are individuals that work in the Central Government and a Public Servant was a wider term used which include Statutory Bodies. 4594. The Member for the Second District queried whether the individual had to be permanent and pensionable in order to be a Civil Servant. 4595. The FS stated that origin of temporary had to be taken into consideration before querying whether the individual has to be permanent and pensionable. He stated that temporary was brought about to hire extra persons for a specific period of time. 4596. The Minister for Health and Social Development enquired if a person worked in a Statutory Body and retires after 28 years of service and gets hired to work at Central Government, how this transition was handled. 4597. The FS stated that the same would apply but he would have to check the specific provision within the laws.
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4598. The Member for the Second District seek clarification whether an officer can be working in the same position in Central Government if you are not Permanent and Pensionable you are considered a Public Servant and not a Civil Servant. 4599. The FS stated that in order to understand a closer look needed to be given to that provision non-established worker as they were supposed to be hired for a specific period. He stated that as things worked out persons have be on the non-established employment for years and the system has not made permanent and pensionable. 4600. The Member for the Second District stated that he has dealt with an individual who has worked as non-established employee for 40 years, retires and was not entitled to any benefits because they were never considered a Civil Servant. 4601. The Member for the Sixth District enquired how many persons who were retirees have been called back to work in the Civil Service. 4602. The FS stated that that information would have to be obtained from the Department of Human Resources. Subhead 60105 Pension and Gratuities (Police) 4603. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired whether only $15,000 was paid out annually for Police Pension and Gratuities. 4604. The AgAcctGen stated that the funds under this subhead were used for police officers who worked in the BVI from overseas Territories for a number of years and returned home. She stated when the statements come back to the Treasury they get lumped under Civil. She also noted that police who are presently receiving pension are lumped under Civil and are not separated. 4605. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired how many police officers from overseas were receiving pension. 4606. The AgAcctGen stated that she does not have the information presently but would make it available for the SFC at a later date. !"#$%++*%&'%"#$%

Subhead 60120 -Workmen Compensation 4607. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired why only $1,000 was funded under this subhead. 4608. The AgAcctGen stated that the funds were to be used to start workmen compensation programme. 4609. The Chairman thanked the panel for appearing before the SFC.

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HEAD 810 Present:

PUBLIC DEBT

Mr. Neil Smith Mrs. Maria Thomas

Financial Secretary, MOF Finance and Planning Officer, MOF

4610. The Chairman welcomed the panel from the MOF and asked them to state their names and positions for the record to which they complied. 4611. The FS said the MoF recognised that they could get a lower debt rate in this economic environment. He said that if they could achieve a lower rate, they would have savings on financial outlays and have more resources. The FS stated that based on his initial scan they could drop the aggregated interest rate one or two percent to gain some savings. 4612. The FS stated that the total debt was $101 Million dollars. He said that in respect to the borrowing guidelines they were not close to the limits imposed by the borrowing guidelines on debt or debt service. The problem, he said, was the liquidity constraints in which the territory was below ten percent. The FS said in comparative terms the territory was not a heavily indebted territory, and they could support something with the current debt service. 4613. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked whether $20 Million of debt service could support $150 Million of loan funds. He stated that it would not affect the borrowing guidelines debt ratio. 4614. The FS advised that medium and long term plans were needed with a national consensus on where the country wanted to go. He said with clear plans in place the government could better organise the type of debt they wanted and it would be a lot easier to convince the people that needed convincing.
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4615. The Member for the Eighth District asked whether there was a model that could be used. 4616. The FS said that Singapore had plans that went over decades. He said that they had work plans that supported strategic plans but because they planned so far ahead there was no need to accomplish everything in one year. The FS advised that many of bigger, prudent countries did that as well. He said that the budget speech that was presented by the Minister of Finance briefly outlined how he intended to go about it. 4617. The Member for the Third District said they should not get confused with a business model and what the government needed. He said that they should first clear the hurdle of approval since they had to convince the powers that be that we had a model, and was capable of following the model through. 4618. The Minister for Health and Social Development said that any financial institution would loan $150 Million dollars to put your house in order would have to be convinced that we have properly structured and competent offices and staff to move the plan forward. 4619. The Member for the Third District said he did not see the government as incapable. He felt that they could borrow $100 Million from the Social Security Board and if the UK said they could borrow up to thirty percent of their pension fund regardless of the standings with the borrowing guidelines, they would still be frozen to borrow money from the outside. 4620. The FS said that they would be frozen because the liquidity was too low. He said if they spent less they would be in a better position. 4621. The Minister for Natural Resources and Labour said that it was a problem that was being made into an issue. He said that the problem was that they had to convince the UK Government, but if they put forward a bipartisan approach with Members from both sides they could not say no. He said they could solve the problem without making it an issue.
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4622. The Member for the Third District said that he was in full support of the initiative. 4623. The Minister for Health and Social Development said that if the borrowing guidelines calls for $65 Million in liquid assets, instead of trying to inflate the Civil Service, initiative should be taken to reduce its cost. 4624. The FS said that if there was a set process with a medium term plan, the credibility of the jurisdiction would go up significantly. 4625. The Member for the First District said that they had the manpower and if the FS focused on it, it would get done. He said the FS was bogged down with trivial matters under the MoFs portfolio which itself is quite a task. He stated that a target group was needed within the Public Service to get some targeted goals accomplished. The Member for the First District said they needed to pool resources from the Public Service and set up a new section in the Service to become goal and task oriented in a specified time frame. He was of the opinion that it would strengthen the arms of the Service and change the mindset of officers. 4626. The Member for the First District said that it was a major initiative being discussed and it should be set up with different cross sections of the Public Service having different targets and goals, but the FS would still take the lead role. He said that the suggestion for the bipartisan Committee was good, but it would have to be formed with some substance. 4627. The Member for the First District said that the FS had meetings that he must attend to keep the country on the cutting edge and we needed a system in place that kept us continuously towards ensuring progress while realising new revenues. 4628. The Minister for Health and Social Development said that based on what was happening, the debt needed to be re-organised. 4629. The Chairman thanked the panel for coming and for answering the questions and concerns raised by the Members.
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HEAD 880 Present:

MISCELLANEOUS

Mr. Neil Smith Mrs. Maria Thomas

Financial Secretary, MOF Finance & Planning Officer, MOF

4630. The Chairman welcomed the FS and his member of staff to the SFC meeting and asked that they state their names for the record to which they complied. 4631. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired about Subhead 60320 Compensation Payments, Losses and Write-offs and asked whether there were any claims against the Government. 4632. The FS stated that there were some claims but he did not have the specifics, but the claims did not include anything related to the hospital project. 4633. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian enquired about Subhead 60365 Hazardous Material Clean up and asked whether the removal of sunken or partially sunken boats would be considered in that subhead. 4634. The FS advised that the subhead was utilised to clean up oil spills and other hazardous waste and sunken boats and wrecks would be the responsibility of the Shipping Registry. 4635. The Member for the Fifth District said that there were no funds allocated to Subhead 60560 Contribution to Emergency/Disaster Fund. 4636. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked whether there was a Procurement Division to which the FS answered in the affirmative, but he would correct the notes relating to Subhead 60345. 4637. The Chairman thanked the panel for answering the questions raised by the Members.
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HEAD 890 Present:

FUNDS CONTRIBUTION

Mr. Neil Smith Mrs. Maria Thomas

Financial Secretary, MOF Finance & Planning Officer, MOF

4638. The Chairman welcomed the FS and His FPO and asked that they state their names for the record. 4639. The Member for the Third District enquired about Subhead 60595 Reserve Fund and noted that there was a reduction in the income amount. 4640. The FS stated that there was a fifty percent cut in increments and a seven percent cut across the board. 4641. The Chairman thanked the team for their contributions to the SFC.

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HEAD 2 Present:

DEPUTY GOVERNORS OFFICE CAPITAL

Mr. David Archer

Permanent Secretary, Deputy Governors Office (PSDGO)

Mrs. Kara Penn-Stoutt

Finance and Planning Officer, Deputy Governors Office (FPODGO)

4642. The Chairman welcomed the members to the 2012 SFC meeting. She also asked if the there was a presentation the panel would like to present a presentation or make any comments. 4643. The PSDGO stated that there was not a presentation and he would like the Members to pose questions. Subhead 25101 - Judicial Reform Project 4644. The Member for the Third District asked the PSDGO to explain this head entailed. 4645. The PSDGO stated that $ 2.5 million for this Subhead was monies provided to the DGO from the IPOC funds. To access the funds, a formal presentation will have to be made to Cabinet. 4646. Territorial Member Honourable Archibald C. Christian asked the PSDGO to provide an example of judicial matters. 4647. The PSDGO stated that the DGOs intent is to put forward a proposal which would include some aspect of remodelling the Post Office (Main Street) to have a second Court so that the current situation at Prospect Reef going forward. 4648. The Member for the Third District asked the FS how the IPOC money was stated.

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4649. The FS stated that might be the legal sector. 4650. The Member for the Third District asked if it was being appropriated in the Estimates of Capital Expenditure to access the IPOC funds because there is an allocation for IPOC for the legal system and does not have to be accounted as part of the Governments revenue in the budget. accessed at any time during the year. 4651. The FS replied this was appropriated based on the resolution that was approved by the House of Assembly. The specific project will have to receive Cabinets approval before they can proceed. This line carries out the mandate of the resolution. 4652. Territorial Member Honourable Archibald C. Christian asked the PSDGO if he stated that an example would be to relocate the Magistrates Court to the Post Office. 4653. The PSDGO stated that the current situation at Prospect Reef is temporary and was meant to be temporary. The DGO has looked at a space at the Post Office to renovate to have a second Court which will eliminate the usage of Prospect Reef. The proposal will have to be accepted through Cabinet. 4654. The Member for the Third District stated that the notes should be amended to include Cabinet must approve projects to access funds. The PSDGO agreed with the Member for the Third District. 4655. The Member for the Third District asked if the money covered Police and the legal system. The PSDGO stated that it does not. 4656. The Member for the Third District asked where the police IPOC was. 4657. The PSDGO stated that the police previously received $2.4 million from IPOC funds of which $1.7 million was spent. The balance of $500,000 represents the monies from IPOC fund, although it approximately $187,000 short. He followed up by asking if it could be

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4658. The Member for the Third District stated that if the $500,000 comes from IPOC, it should be annotated in the Estimates. The Premier stated that it has been amended to that. 4659. The Member for the Third District further asked if the $2.4 million was indicated as IPOC as well. The FS and Premier answered affirmatively. 4660. The FS added that the amendment also included that Cabinet must approve projects to access funds. 4661. The Member for the Third District stated that he is asking specifically that the amounts be annotated in the notes. 4662. The Member for the Third District asked if all the funds listed was from IPOC, except the $462,000 which is from the Consolidated Funds. The PSDGO replied yes. 4663. The Member for the Third District asked if the PSDGO had any plans already developed to access the funds. The PSDGO requested further clarification. 4664. The Member for the Third District replied: projects. 4665. The PSDGO stated that the one project that the DGO is currently working on is the project to have a second Court House at the Post Office. DGO and Public Works Department (PWD) are currently working together to ascertain quantities, etc. 4666. The Member for the Third District asked the PSDGO to provide more insight on the location the PSDGO is referring to as the Post Office. The PSDGO stated he was referring to the space that is located downstairs of the Post Office. 4667. The Member for the Third District asked how old this idea was. The PSDGO stated that the idea was about 18 months old. 4668. The Member for the Third District asked if the project has received approval from Cabinet. The PSDGO replied that they had not.
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4669. The Member for the Third District asked if the drawings were completed. The PSDGO replied they were not. 4670. The Member for the Third District asked if the DGO was expecting to access the funds the current year. 4671. The PSDGO stated that within the next five weeks, the Cabinet Paper should be ready. 4672. The Member for the Third District asked if this is that the only project slated thus far. 4673. The PSDGO stated yes. He added that there has been dialogue regarding the Halls of Justice and the Territorys contribution to it. Considerations can also be made to start the Territorys contributions from the funds. Subhead 25103 Police Equipment 4674. Territorial Member Honourable Archibald C. Christian stated that there are a number of incidents during vehicle accidents where the driver was intoxicated. The current method used is to take the drive to the hospital to draw blood to determine the alcohol levels of the blood. He added that, while that method is useful, should the police consider getting breathalysers to determine on the scene of the accident? 4675. The PSDGO agreed it is an excellent suggestion. It is not included, but the PSDGO reported that he would take it forward and have dialogues with Police regarding this initiative. 4676. The Member for the Third District stated that it was a matter for legislation. 4677. Territorial Member Honourable Archibald C. Christian agreed that it would have to be passed in the house.

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Subhead 25105 Governors Group Development Projects 4678. Territorial Member Honourable Archibald C. Christian asked the PSDGO to explain this Subhead because the example given under Subhead 25101 dealing with relocating the Magistrates Court to the Post Office. 4679. The PSDGO stated that it makes reference to the Magistrates Court that currently exists as Johns Hole; however, there will be a replacement note for this subhead which will cover the execution of final payments for most of the projects. 4680. The Member for the Second District stated that he was aware of a plan to develop a court at Johns Hole that would allow for multiple sittings at the same time. He asked if the PSDGO could tell the Members an update of the plan. 4681. The PSDGO answered that currently the plans for the building are on hold because there is an impasse between the company doing the design phase and the Government. The DGO believes that what was expected of the company was not completely delivered. The company is asking for additional money, which is

currently being negotiated between AGC, the DGO, and the company. 4682. The Member for the Second District how long would the discussion take place and if it was a reason to abandon the project and start afresh in a new location. 4683. The PSDGO stated that when the original decision as it relates to the court at Johns Hole, the idea of a justice block was not on the table in its full strength. The idea has not been abandoned, but a decision with the current company must be received before the project can be advanced. Subhead 25099 Information Technology (IT) Development 4684. Territorial Member Honourable Archibald C. Christian ask the status of the voter registration system, have monies been paid for it, and if not, what are the plans for 2012.

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4685. The PSDGO the voter ID project has completed. The overall cost is $36,000. Monies totaling $18,000 for phase I have been disbursed. when necessary. 4686. Territorial Member Honourable Archibald C. Christian stated that there is a total of $833,737. The estimated expenditure for 2011 was $92, 280. He asked the FS to provide clarification on the amounts. 4687. The FS replied that the figure included expenditure from the years before and up to this point. An aggregate of $92,000 was spent. 4688. Territorial Member Honourable Archibald C. Christian asked if the $92,000 was spent sourcing the ID system. 4689. The PSDGO stated it was used to also purchase equipment for Subhead 25099, Civil Registry and Passport. 4690. The FS stated that the Ministry of Finance (MOF) would not have what the monies were used for; only what was paid. 4691. The PSDGO stated it was for the Civil Registry Information System. 4692. The Chairman thanked the PSDGO and FPO for answering the questions raised by the Members. The project is ready for rollout

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HEAD 3 Present:

PREMIERS OFFICE

Mrs. Rosalie Adams Mr. Jamal Jones Mrs. Elvia Smith-Maduro

Permanent Secretary, Premiers Office (PSPO) Finance and Planning Officer, Premiers Office (FPOPO) Assistant Secretary, Premiers Office (ASPO)

Head 35075 Culinary Arts Centre 4693. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired what was being proposed this year with respect to the Culinary Arts Centre, bearing in mind that we had the property at Prospect Reef. 4694. The PSPO stated that the intent for the facility at Paraquita Bay was to become the training centre for the culinary arts. She said that at present, the Prospect Reef facility was not being used for that purpose and the idea was put forward to move the funding to Paraquita Bay so that that establishment could be developed. She stated that we were getting close to the wrap up and they had to do the electrical connection and the anticipated that by the end of March they should be able to open the facility or at least a phase. 4695. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether the facility was built with the assistance of EU funding. The PSPO stated yes. 4696. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried about the works to be completed at Prospect Reef. The PSPO said presently most of the works was completed and the only works left to do was to connect it to the electrical grid and water. 4697. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether it included the purchase of any equipment to run the facility. The PSPO stated that the equipment was included in that sum of money.
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Head 35090 Special Development Projects 4698. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired how one could qualify for a Special Development Project. The PSPO stated that under that Subhead it was at the discretion of the Premier that members would formulate their plans and would speak with the Premier and then the Ministry would carry out the works for the Premiers approval. She said that there is only $500.00 under that Subhead. Head 35094 A.O. Shirley Recreation Grounds 4699. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired about the A.O Shirley Grounds. He enquired whether it had been transferred to Subhead 65106 or if it was in the process. The PSPO stated that she was of the opinion that the development should have taken place and after that was completed; the grounds would be turned over to the Ministry of Education and Culture. She said that she was not sure whether that was the position so they would be ready to do what was expected of them. 4700. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired whether that movement would have the monies with it. The PSPO stated that was usually the format that the project would move with the requisite funds. 4701. The Minister for Education and Culture enquired whether both were coming together. The PSPO stated yes, but the s of the House could do such. 4702. The Member for the Eighth District stated that he noticed that the areas where there were mango trees were dug away and the roots of those trees were left exposed. He enquired whether that was part of the same initiative. The PSPO stated that she was not aware of the situation and that she would have to do a site visit to determine what happened and what corrective measures should be taken. 4703. The Member for the Eighth District stated that he did not think that the Minister for Education and Culture was aware, but those trees were there for over twenty years and their roots are now exposed posing a danger to the trees. The PSPO stated that she would pay immediate attention to that matter.
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4704. The Member for the Sixth District enquired whether the present pavilion there would be demolished. The PSPO stated that there were several discussions on that but she was not certain whether a firm decision was made. She stated that at one point it was to be taken down and then another time it was to be renovated. She said that they would wait for instructions and carry on with whatever is expected.

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HEAD 4 Present:

MINISTRY OF FINANCE

Mr. Neil Smith

Financial Secretary, Ministry of Finance (FS)

4705. The Chairman welcomed the FS and asked that he state his name for the record to which he complied. 4706. The FS noted that some projects were moved from the Ministry of Finance (MoF). Sub Head 45077 Post Office Infrastructure Development 4707. The Member for the First District enquired when the Carrot Bay Post Office (CBPO) was going to open. The FS informed that it was going to be open sometime in 2012. 4708. The Member for the First District asked for an approximate time frame. The FS informed that the CBPO would be opened within the first half of 2012. 4709. The Member for the First District asked if there was going to be an opening ceremony and if the District Representative was going to be consulted. The Premier confirmed that there was going to be a ceremony and that the Member was going to be involved. 4710. The Member for the First District asked that negotiations continue to take place between the Post Mistress and the various private and public entities so that payment of water, phone and electrical bills etc could also be done at the CBPO. 4711. The Member for the First District asked if they were going to hire new workers to staff the CBPO. The FS noted that he would have to consult the Post Mistress before answering. In turn The Member for the First District expressed that he would like if persons in the First District be given first preference for the jobs. 4712. The Member for the Eighth District noted that the allocation for the Sub Head seemed extremely low and asked if there were funds somewhere else to aid with infrastructure
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development. The FS informed that there was no other funding but that there were some financial constraints which had to be met in 2012. Sub Head 45078 Customs Infrastructure Development 4713. The Member for the Second District noted that no re-votes were shown for the Customs Department and asked if the five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000.00) was new money. The FS explained that the funding shown came from the IPOC funds. The FS noted that the Capital pages were going to be updated to reflect the monies transferred back to the Consolidated Fund. Sub Head 45081 Greenland Playing Field 4714. The Member for the Eighth District asked if three hundred and fifty-three thousand, four hundred and twenty-two dollars ($353,422.00) was all the money which was spent to date on the Greenland Field. The FS informed that that was correct but he needed to double check as to his recollection the figure was closed to four hundred thousand dollars ($400,000.00). The FS also noted that that project was moved to the Ministry of Education and Culture. 4715. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked where he could get money allocated to assist the removal of dialect boats. The FS advised that such matters were handled via Receiver of Wrecks at the Virgin Islands Shipping Registry which was under the Premiers Office. 4716. The Chairman thanked the FS for coming and answering questions posed by Members.

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HEAD 5 Present:

MINISTRY OF NATURAL RESOURCES AND LABOR

Mr. Ronald Smith-Berkeley

Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour (PSNRL)

Mrs. Louann Hodge-Smith

Ag. Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour (AgFPONRL)

Subhead 5511 4717. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried about this Subhead. 4718. The PSNRL stated that it was a fee system for the National Parks Trust but was completed and that was an old heading. The FS stated that it was corrected. Subhead 55139 Purchase of Land - Spooner Estate 4719. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried how many residential lots were going to be surveyed on that occasion. 4720. The PSNRL stated that this was not a priority for the Ministry this year. He said that in terms of all of the Subheads they had this $ 500. He stated that initially when they were told that the revote was being handled in a different way. He further said that they received instructions to put money in those Subheads but that was changed and now all of the new monies now came under Subhead 55177 MNR&L Development Projects. He said that those items with $ 500 with the exception of Subhead 55164 Purchase of Land and Subhead 55168 Agriculture Infrastructure Development, those other areas would be fixed. 4721. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that he did not think that we were purchasing any land in Spooners but he suspected that they would be doing surveying works to release new lots. The PSNRL stated no.

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4722. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that that he was reading the notes and that was what the notes implied to him. The PSNRL said yes, but he was making the point that this needed to be changed. 4723. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether they were not releasing any new lots in Spooners this year. The PSNRL stated no. Subhead 55139 Spooner Estate 4724. The Minister for Health and Social Development queried whether all of the land was given to Belongers. The PSNRL stated yes. 4725. The Minister for Health and Social Development requested a list of all of the nationalities. The PSNRL stated that it was a basic requirement in order to receive Government lands. 4726. The Member for the Third District enquired where we going from here with the Green Houses. 4727. The Minister for Health and Social Development requested a detailed list of the Nationalities of the persons receiving land. The PSNRL stated that he would have the list revised with the immigration status of the individuals. 4728. The Minister for Natural Resources and Labour stated that the Country needed a new land policy. Subhead 55172 Baughers Bay Jetty 4729. The Member for the Fifth District queried whether that was an extension to something that was there already. 4730. The PSNRL stated yes and that nothing had been done to this area for quite some time and its not on the priority list for this year, but sometime in 2014. He said towards the end of last year they started looking at it but things changed in terms of bringing it to some conclusion.
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Subhead 55173 Housing Scheme 4731. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked for this Subhead to be elaborated. The PSNRL stated that nothing would be done for 2012. 4732. The Member for the Third District queried about the issue of the Green House and the plan to move forward. The PSNRL stated they requested Internal Audit to do an audit of the Green House project and at such time a decision would be made going forward. 4733. The Member for the Third District stated that they needed to know what they were going to do with those things, next thing you know it becomes prohibitive to go near it. The PSNRL stated that moving forward they would need to have a better understanding of what happened and where we are financially. 4734. The Member for the Third District stated that that was not just for the ones that have begun but also for the ones that were outstanding. The PSNRL stated yes that that was the entire project, both on Tortola and Virgin Gorda. Subhead 55167 Land Survey 4735. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether some of that money could not be used to do some of the surveying work for Spooners. 4736. The Chairman stated that there were only three Subheads that monies were allocated for in the Capital budget. She stated that they were Subhead 55164 - Purchase of Land, Subhead 55168 - Agriculture Infrastructure Development, and Subhead 55177 - MNR&L Development Projects. 4737. The Member for the First District stated that earlier we were discussing with the Ministry of Education and we wanted to ask them to work alongside the Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour with the fishermans ramp for Carrot Bay. He stated that somewhere on the Capital section, they could help because they were also in charge of the seabed along with Smugglers Cove. He asked that if they could find some funds to help with that.
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HEAD 6 Present:

MINISTRY OF EDUCATION AND CULTURE

Ms. Tasha Bertie

Deputy Secretary, Ministry of Education and Culture (AgDSMEC)

Mrs. C. Jovita Scatliffe

Acting Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Education and Culture (AgFPOMEC)

Ms. Stacey Brewley

Senior Accounts Officer, Ministry of Education Culture (SAOMEC)

4738. The Chairman welcomed the panel to the SFC meeting and asked that they state their names to which they complied. 4739. The DSMEC noted that there were some changes to the Notes in the various Sub Heads. The changes were as follows: Sub Head 65052 Schools Rehabilitation Improvements changed to read: 4740. To provide funding for the rehabilitation and maintenance of all public schools. Also covers the completion of Willard Wheatley Primary School.

Sub Head 65081 Schools Rehabilitation and Design changed to read: 4741. To provide funding for the designs and planning of schools throughout the Territory.

Sub Head 65101 Recreational Facilities to read: 4742. To provide recreational, fitness and cultural facilities and equipment throughout the Territory. Also includes the covering of the basketball Court in Virgin Gorda.

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Sub Head 65106 ME&C Development Projects to read: 4743. For the continuation of Improvements to schools and recreational facilities. Restoration of Historical Sites and rehabilitation and development of a recreational park in Virgin Gorda, etc. Funds to be drawn down as required by projects at the request of the Minister for Education and Culture. $300,000 to be funded from IPOC Funds. 4744. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked which Sub Head the gym in the West End community fit in. The AgDSMHEC advised that it came under Sub Head 65106. 4745. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if the gym was completed. The AgDSMHEC advise that she was not sure but vowed to get the information. 4746. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked who would run the gym. The AgDSMHEC noted that she would have to look into the matter and get back to him with that information. 4747. The Member for the Eighth District asked under which Sub Head had recreational facilities fell. The FS informed that they would be dealt with from Sub Head 65106 and he explained that the Notes were written as they were so that the funds allocated could be used as needed. Sub Head 65105 Greenland Playing Field 4748. The Member for the Eighth District asked if there was a progress report on the playing field now that it was under the MEC. The DSMEC informed that there was no progress report as no reports on the field have been transferred from the Ministry of Finance to date. 4749. The Member for the Eighth District enquired if the files showed exactly what the field cost. The AgFPOMEC advised that the MEC only received payment certificates from the Ministry of Finance.
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4750. The Member for the Eighth District noted that under Capital Expenditure for the MOF it was noted that close to four hundred thousand dollars ($400,000.00) was spent and asked if that was included in the figure under the MEC. The FS explained that the figure under Capital expenditure for the MEC had included the monies shown for the MOF. He also noted that Cabinet and Caucus needed to discuss exactly what they wanted in terms of the design of the field. 4751. The Member for the Eighth District the MEC for looking at the field as an urgent matter as it was out of use for over four (4) years and he hoped to see the matter rectified within 2012. 4752. The Minister for Natural Resources and Labour also thanked the MEC for their assistance with the field and vowed to work along with the Minister of Education and Culture on the project. 4753. The Member for the First District stated for the record that the former immediate former Minister for Education and Culture had no hand in the current status of the Greenland field restoration project. 4754. The Member for the Second District enquired where the project was funded from. The DSMEC informed that it was funded through the MoF. 4755. The Member for the First District informed that the person who cleaned and operate the gym daily at the Abraham Leonard Community Centre in Carrot Bay did so without payment and requested that a stipend be awarded by the Ministry of Education and Culture for the work which was being done. The Member further stated that a person had been identified to manage the operation of the gym in the West End Community Centre, but the assistance of the Ministry is urgently required. 4756. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked if the gym at West End was funded through the MEC or through the MHSD. The Member for the First District informed that the West End gym was funded through the MHSD and the Carrot Bay gym was
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funded through the MEC with the understanding at that time that the Ministry of Education and Culture will pay a stipend for the operation of each gym. 4757. The Member for the First District enquired about what was left to be done on phase one of the Benjamin Romney Recreational Park in West End (the park). 4758. The AgFPOMEC informed that the following works remained: Constructing and supplying of a statue of Benjamin Romney with a balance of $9,000; Installing water park equipment with a balance of $28,000; The purchase of the water park equipment with a balance of $2,460; and The purchase of the recirculation water system with a balance of $22,230

4759. The Member for the First District asked if the Benjamin Romney Recreation Complex (BRRC) Park was going to be completed in 2012. The AgFPOMEC informed that the matter would have to be discussed with the Minister for Education and Culture so therefore no definite answer could be given. 4760. The Member for the First District asked if there was going to be continuous maintenance on the (BRRC) park based on the current budget. The AgDSMEC stated that that was something that could be considered after discussions with the Minister 4761. The Member for the First District asked who were the designer and Project Manager for the park. Enterprises. 4762. The Member for the First District enquired if there any future developments for the park. The DSMEC informed there was future plan for a tennis court. 4763. The Member for the First District asked if the tennis court was going to be completed in 2012. The AgDSMEC noted that the project was costly and that due to financial
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The AgDSMEC informed that the Project Manager was STO

constraints she could not say if the project was going to be completed in 2012, she would have to consult with the Minister of Education and Culture. 4764. The Member for the First District asked if there was a next phase and what the estimated cost was. The AgDSMEC informed that there was a phase two which included which included a tennis court, etc. to cost over one million dollars ($1,000,000.00). 4765. The Member for the First District noted that construction of the (BRRC) park was phased over a period of four (3) years and he advised that maintenance of the (BRRC) park be sped up as close to seventy (70) persons use the park nightly and he was bombarded with complaints about the up-keep of the park. 4766. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian agreed with the statement as he too noticed that the bush was taking over at the (BRRC) park. 4767. The Member for the First District asked if the MEC could assist him as District Representative with cleaning up and installing sidewalks and a park in the area across the street from the Community Centre in West End. The AgDSMEC responded that the matter was going to be considered for exploration after consultation of the Minister for Education and Culture. 4768. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian asked if remedial works were going to be done on the Capoons Bay field along with an opening ceremony. The DSMEC informed that the matter would have to be discussed with the Minister for Education and Culture. 4769. The Member for the First District asked if the design of the Cultural/Recreational Park in Carrot Bay could be done in consultation with the District Representative. The Minister for Education and Culture advised that all ongoing projects in the MEC were being reviewed for all Districts throughout the next four years and he could not say which projects were going to be completed this year.
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4770. The Member for the First District asked if within the four year plan if the Ministry of Natural Resources and Labour (MNRL) who was in charge of the sea bed along with the MEC and the District Representative work on a boat ramp for the area. The DSMEC advised that she could not give a definite answer. 4771. The Member for the First District asked for light bulbs to be replaced at the field in Capoons Bay, the court in Carrot Bay and the court in West End, and if within the four year plan if the electrical wires hanging over the field in Capoons Bay could be planted underground. The AgDSMEC noted that she would have to consult the Minister for Education and Culture on those matters. 4772. The Member for the Sixth District asked for the refurbishment of the gym at Belle Vue and for a basketball court in Baughers Bay. She also asked that the fields for both the Joyce Samuel Primary School and the Alexandrina Maduro Primary School be updated so that they could be fully utilized by the students. 4773. The Member for the Eighth District noted that he did not see the project for the Willard Wheatley Primary School in the Budget for the MEC. The AgFPOMEC informed that it was going to be transferred from the MoF to MEC under Sub Head 65052. 4774. The Member for the Eighth District asked about the design for the Willard Wheatley Primary School. The AgFPOMEC informed that she could not answer the question because all of the paper work was not transferred from the MoF. 4775. The Member for the Eighth District expressed that the deplorable condition of the Willard Wheatley Primary School was the cause of much contention for the parents of the students of the school and it needed to be rectified urgently. He also expressed that the grounds for the school needed to be upgraded to make it fit for use and that the entire school had been neglected for far too long.

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4776. The Member for the Third District asked what the proposed budget was for the MEC. The AgFPOMEC informed that the budget was for a little over six million dollars ($6,000,000.00). 4777. The Member for the Eighth District expressed his need to see the completion of the field in Greenland as children had to travel as far as Road Town to use the field there for recreation. 4778. The BCMOF confirmed that the budget for the MEC was six million, two hundred and forty-six thousand, three hundred and ten dollars ($6,246,310.00). 4779. The Member for the Third District asked what the budget for 2011 was for the MEC. The BCMOF informed that the budget was for three million, two hundred thousand dollars ($3,200,000.00). 4780. The Member for the Third District enquired if the Three Hundred Thousand dollars ($300,000.00) was part of the sum in Sub Head 65106. The FS confirmed that it was. 4781. The Member for the Third District asked it that was all for the budget for the MEC. The FS confirmed that that was the maximum. Sub Head 65100 Prison Rehabilitation 4782. The Member for the Third District noted that there was no funding for this Sub Head and asked if it was going to be funded from Sub Head 65106. The Minister for Education and Culture confirmed that it was going to be funded from Sub Head 65106 and that the necessary research was going to be conducted before hand. 4783. The Member for the Third District noted that there were plans to put a second floor on the Ebenezer Thomas Primary School and asked if that was going to continue. The DSMEC informed that she could not answer the question as she would have to consult the Minister for Education and Culture. 4784. The Member for the Third District asked to be permitted to work along with the MEC on the expansion project for the school. The DSMEC informed that the Minster for !"#$%"!(%&'%"#$%

Education and Culture was willing to work along with The Member for the Third District. 4785. The Member for the Third District enquired if computerisation of schools was still under Sub Head 65106. The DSMEC confirmed that it still was. Sub Head 65096 Computerisation of Schools 4786. The Minister for Education and Culture noted that the Sub Head was to be deleted from the Estimates. The Member for the Third District stated that he wished to have the computerization of schools continued from Sub Head 65106. 4787. The Member for the Third District asked why Ellis Thomas Downs had not received its own Sub Head. The DSMEC informed that due to financial constraints that that was not possible. 4788. The Member for the Third District suggested that the Ellis Thomas Downs should receive its own Sub Head and put at least five hundred dollars ($500.00) in it which would ensure flexibility in dealing with it as it was a huge and ongoing project. 4789. The Chairman thanked the panel for coming and answering questions and concerns raised by Members.

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HEAD 7 Present:

MINISTRY OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT

Mrs. Petrona Davies

Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Health and Social Development (PSHSD)

Mrs. Carolyn Stoutt-Igwe

Deputy Secretary, Ministry of Health and Social Development (DSHSD)

Mr. Bennet Smith Mr. Anthony McMaster

Project Engineer, Hospital Project Office (PE) Finance and Planning Officer, Ministry of Health and Social Development (FPOHSD)

Ms. Kisha Donovan

Finance Officer, Ministry of Health and Social Development (FOHSD)

4790. The Chairman thanked the panel for appearing before the SFC and asked that they state their names to which they complied. 4791. The Member for the Third District queried what contracts were signed for the new Peebles Hospital. He enquired what works were being carried out and by whom. 4792. The PSHSD stated that there was a contract with James Todman for completion of external works and a contract with James Todman DCK construction for internal works. 4793. The Member for the Third District queried the scope and the status of the external works. 4794. The Project Engineer (PE) stated that the scope essentially included all the work on the outer skin of the building and around the building and the grounds. He stated that the works on the 9outside face of the building included some work on the roof, the
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windows, the finishes, doors, concrete canopies, paving and drainage and retaining walls. He said that there were three large concrete canopies. He said that canopy one was the entrance canopy and all of the concrete work on that was completed. He further stated that canopy two was on the eastern side of the building, on the side of the building facing the sea and the old hospital and works had been completed. He said that canopy three was covering the walkway that passed between boat of the buildings and concrete works were not completed. He stated that there were some drainage and finishes to be carried out. He said that most of the external paving that they did not think would be affected by the internal works were done which was part of the parking area at the bottom of the hill. He said that a part of the lower area of the parking area remained unpaved because they envisioned that there would be moving of equipment and some underground works having to do with drainage and electrical. He explained that there was a similar situation at the rear of the building which was referred to as the delivery area which was not paved either. He said that the work on the roofs such as the metal work had been done which included some repairs to the roof on the annexed building and on the new building it was mostly the roof guttering and that has already been done. He further explained that the built up roofing that under way and there were one or two areas which during the internal works, air condition there will be the movement of heavy bits and pieces around so that would be left until the internal works are completed. In terms of cost, he said that about 50 percent of that was completed. 4795. The Member for the Third District queried whether the 50 percent completed was external works. The PE stated that he threw it off the top of his head but it should be in that area. 4796. The Member for the Third District queried about the scheduled completion date. 4797. The PE stated that scheduled completion date was next month. He said that the problem was that both contracts had to intermix and that there were some things that

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they were deciding that would not be wise to do. He further said that they agreed with both contractors that they should not do those things at this time. 4798. The Member for the Third District stated that he understood that had it not been taken into consideration the impact that the interior work would have on the exterior work then the date would have been next month but now that is taken into consideration, then the scheduled date would be when the second contract is finished. 4799. The PE stated that he would agree with that and the idea was basically that some things should be put on hold until the heavy works was out of the way. 4800. The Member for the Third District queried about the interior works. He asked about the size of the exterior works contract. 4801. The PE stated that it was 4.174 million. He said that there was one major item on the external works that was not done which was not waiting for the internal works which was the windows. He stated that that would be done with a subcontract but has not been done as yet. 4802. The Member for the Third District enquired about the story with the windows. 4803. The PE stated that the windows were YKK windows and they required that the installation be done by YKK. He stated that when the YKK licenced installer came and looked at them closely, he discovered that there were some things that were done contrary to how YKK wanted them done. He stated that YKK said that if they were going to complete it, he would have to pull those windows out and refit them the way in which they wanted them to be fitted. He stated that it cost some additional funds so they had to seek permission from Government to do that. 4804. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried what YKK meant. The PE stated that he did not know. He stated that it was a large glass company. 4805. The Member for the Third District enquired where the company was from. The PE stated the United States.
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4806. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired if some of the windows were not installed properly if there was coverage under liability for the installation of the windows. He enquired whether there was liability with the company. 4807. The PE stated that the company that installed them would have been responsible and were expected to give a warranty which would be the manufactured warranty. He stated that that was the basis on which they operated and the installations were not completed. He said that when the subcontractor who was an YKK licenced contractor examined them he discovered that some of the installed windows were not properly installed. He further stated that he said that he would not be able to give them the YKK warranty on those but he would have to redo them. 4808. The Member for the Third District enquired what percentage of the windows had to be removed. The PE stated that he would have to say that all would have to be pulled out. 4809. The Member for the Third District enquired how long was that discovered. 4810. The PE stated that it was discovered about late last year when the subcontractor examined them carefully when he was preparing to get started, and then he pointed out that there were things that were not the way they should be. He stated that the architects before did not see any problems with them. 4811. The Member for the Third District queried about the interior works. He queried the size the size of that contract in dollar figures and what was the scope of that work. 4812. The PE stated that the scope of the internal works was essentially all of the electrical mechanicals, some that had to be re-done, some that had to be completed and some that were not started and had to be completed. He stated that this meant that even some of the other works were going to be interfered with and, as far as that was concerned, the internal works included removing and replacing any of that work that had to be removed or replaced in order for the electrical mechanicals to be corrected and or completed. He stated that for things like electrical, mechanicals, electricity, !"#$%"!"%&'%"#$%

medical gases, telephones and plumbing also required work on the outside of the building. 4813. The Member for the Third District enquired about the value of the building. The PE stated that the value was 30.8 million and the period was a year and a half. 4814. The Member for the Third District queried a year and a half from when. The PE stated that they were having a little discussion on that. 4815. The Member for the Third District enquired whether they started. The PE stated not quite and that there were some issues. 4816. The Member for the Third District enquired whether we could start counting the dates. The PE said no. He stated that there were people on site who were doing things but it was very preliminary. 4817. The Member for the Third District enquired what their mechanical entailed. The PE stated that he was very broad when he said mechanical. He stated that he meant the air condition, plumbing, medical gases, fire safety, electrical whether high or low voltage. 4818. The Member for the Third District stated that he wanted to know if it had to do with some of the work already done and if ducts were to be taken out etc. The PE stated yes and that a lot of the duct work was found defective and was scheduled to be replaced. 4819. The Member for the Third District enquired about the repairs to dry walls and ceilings and medical gases. He queried about all of the furniture and fit ups for the hospital. The PE stated that the partition work, nursing stations counters, cabinetry were all included. 4820. The Member for the Third District enquired about the medical equipment. The PE stated that the medical equipment was not to be provided by the contractor and that Government was making other arrangements for that. He said that provision has to be !"#$%"&$%&'%"#$%

made for accommodating the medical equipment which was part of the contractors responsibility. 4821. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the medical equipment was different. The PE stated that the medical equipment was different thing. 4822. The Member for the Third District enquired about the medical equipment if there was a contract being prepared. 4823. The PSHSD stated that in respect of the architecturally significant equipment meaning the equipment in which the contractor would need to be concerned with in order to make preparations for the installation. She stated that that equipment was ordered to the value of around 1.5 million dollars and most of it is currently in storage after the formal general contractor was terminated. She said that most of it was in storage in Miami. She further stated that in respect of the rest of the equipment list, the list was finalized based on the clinical service plan that was developed by the Commissioning firm and they had an estimated cost in the region of 10 million dollars which would be required for furnishing to meet the clinical services plan and need. 4824. The Member for the Third District stated that the medical equipment based on the commissioning team report would cost us 10 million dollars. The PSHSD stated roughly but that they were lease prices. She said that it did not take into account for negotiations for purchasing etc. 4825. The Member for the Third District queried about the funds needed and enquired if that was everything. 4826. The PSHSD stated that they also needed to consider that the hospital building should operate part of a campus and that there were many services that would need to be accommodated with the annex to support the services provided from the new building. She said that completion of those works were necessary and the entire development plan for the area in terms of access and drainage would also need to be taken into account in terms of completing the project. !"#$%"&!%&'%"#$%

4827. The Member for the Third District queried who were looking at those matters. 4828. The PSHSD stated that they had a steering committee for the project which had representation from the key agencies and they were pursuing the Public Works Department in respect of the last set of items that she mentioned. She further stated that they also had proposals for functional planning for the annex to ensure that the services were well integrated. 4829. The Member for the Third District enquired about the figure for the exterior. The PSHSD stated it was 4.174. 4830. The Member for the Third District enquired whether we were looking at 34 million dollars for the post contractor. Subhead 72002 New Hospital 4831. The Member for the Third District enquired about the loan funds of $17,868,424.00. He queried where the rest of the loan was listed. 4832. The BC stated that the funds were omitted in error but would be placed back into the budget. 4833. The Member for the Third District enquired about the figure. The BC stated that the figure that would go back in the revote column be $37, 68,433.00. 4834. The Member for the Third District enquired how much the bank gave for the loan. The FS stated 45 million. 4835. The Member for the Third District queried how much was used thus far. 4836. The BC stated that you would recall that there were two loans: a loan of 15 million dollars from Social Security and 45 million dollars from Banco Popular. She stated that the two amounts were combined so she could not say specifically.

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4837. The Member for the Third District enquired about the 45 million from Banco Popular and if the entire sum was air marked for the hospital or if some was going elsewhere. 4838. The FS stated that originally, 15 million was supposed to be for sewerage and 30 million was to be for the hospital but it was no longer possible to do that. He stated that some have been directed towards sewerage but it would not be 15 million dollars because of the increase in expenditure of the hospital. 4839. The Member for the Third District stated that he heard about the facility being used as a campus type facility. He said that he did not understand that if it was really the intent of the Ministry of Health and Social Development to fall back on Public Works for any part of the completion of this facility. He queried about the areas in which they thought they would be using the Public Works to do. 4840. The PSHSD stated that they requested assistance from the Public Works in respect of the drainage solution for the area as well as the traffic layout and the network of roads. She stated that there was supposed to be a new road to provide access to the site so in terms of planning for that aspect they would rely on the expertise of the Public Works Department. 4841. The Member for the Third District stated that we expended an enormous amount of money, energy, time, thoughts into this facility and not even a flag pole he would like to see us relying on or some other entity to complete this facility and open in style the day it opens. 4842. The PSHSD clarified that this work was not on the grounds of the Hospital but the environment to make it functional. 4843. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the hospital has taken up a lot of ground space and therefore the water needed to go back into the ocean. He stated that all of the provision was being made for the drainage system to be emptied into the existing Public Work drainage system that crossed the road. He stated that
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once the water was dumped into the drains and if it did not get to the ocean as quickly as possible, then flooding would be caused in other areas. 4844. The Member for the Third District queried whether it was on the property. 4845. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that it was not on the property. The Minister spoke about the road next to the Adina Donovans home and he said that the intention was to take it straight out to the Water Front Drive. Subhead 75086 New Hospital 4846. The Member for the Third District enquired about the local component of $750,000.00. 4847. The PSHSD stated that the allocation was to cover the cost of the operations of the project office as well as the consults. 4848. The Member for the Third District queried whether she said that the project was fully funded and all of the scopes were covered in the contracts. 4849. The PSHSD stated that contracts they had issued to date related specifically to the new hospital building but there were some other services that needed to be accounted for as part of their wider planning for the project. 4850. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that when this hospital was envisaged even by the previous Government the world was a different place. He said that today we are faced with not having a lot of money so we would have to use the money that we have wisely to accomplish the task that we would like to accomplish. He stated he would be fighting for the funding that they had the relevant persons on site to get the job done. 4851. The Member for the Third District stated that it seemed as if those areas were covered. He stated that we did not have a contract for the potential 10 million for the medical equipment but from what he saw, the FS made provisions in the loan that is secured already.
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4852. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the hospital would be opened even if we have to leave some wing that was added that wasnt necessary might have to be left until we could do better. He stated that there were people that lived in Virgin Gorda that was interested in the development of the hospital over there. He stated that they would try to get a public/private partnership on the equipment side of the hospital. 4853. The Member for the Third District queried whether there was anything out there that he did not know about with the hospital that was not heard yet. The PSHSD stated no. Subhead 75095 New Incinerator Plant 4854. The Member for the Third District queried about the new incinerator plan. He stated that he was hearing that they were still working on scrubbers. The PSHSD stated yes. 4855. The Member for the Third District enquired whether those were on order for a long time. 4856. The PSHSD stated the scrubber unit for the new incinerator was ordered and paid for as part of the initial contract arrangement with the manufacture. She stated that it was not delivered because we are not in a position to install the wet well which was required for the scrubber to function. She further stated that they were still at an impasse where that was concerned but were working to resolve the issues which would essentially boil down to land negotiations because private land was required for the installation of the wet well system which is the sea water intake system that was required to cool the system down. The PS said that it had been a difficult period of negotiations but they continued to be resolute that the scrubber would be installed in the shortest time possible. 4857. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether we were paying anyone to import the scrubber and to store it. 4858. The PSHSD stated that what came to her attention was that the manufacturer held off on the actual manufacturing of the scrubber because it was a large piece of !"#$%"&#%&'%"#$%

equipment. She said that after they encountered the delay in getting the incinerator from the plant to Tortola, they basically told them to let them know when they were ready for the scrubber and then it would be delivered in short turnaround time. She said that they were not incurring storage cost. 4859. The Member for the Third District enquired about the wet well and who owned the land. 4860. The Minister for Communication and Works stated that we purchased a modern incinerator that would not emit any toxins into the atmosphere. He stated that we had to pump the water from the ocean up into a wet well and back to the ocean after filtration. He stated that one of the easiest ways to get to the ocean was through Smiths properties at Pockwood Pond. He stated that there is a discussion with Mr. Ira Smith concerning access to the ocean and the cost of the access. He stated that we could either go west or east. He stated that going east was the longest and difficult and the easiest would be the land on the west owned by the Smiths. He stated that they were discussing with Mr. Smith about to find out what it would cost to get access so they could put a pumping station to pump the water into the ocean. 4861. The PSHSD stated that the wet well would need to be constructed at the plant site so the portion of land required plus 300ft from that pump house to the main road would still be required. 4862. The PE stated that the situation was that the old incinerator had a scrubber. He stated that he could not say why it fell into disuse and dismantled. He stated that they used they used the same well that Electricity Corporation used. He further said that they had a couple of pumps in there and that they would pump saltwater from there up to the plant. Electricity made it quite clear that they could not accommodate us in their well. He explained that the pipes that they had underground were not large enough to operate the new plant that they had. He said that they were going to need new pipes and a new wet well which in fact is a big tank of sea water with a roof over it. He said that they were using Electricity Corporations pump before but they needed it for
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themselves, which is why they needed land in addition to the fact that they had to put in larger pipes. 4863. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether they would go along parallel to the existing lines that ran along the road. The PE stated that it was where they put the pumping station. 4864. The Member for the Third District stated that what is always ideal isnt always possible. He said that ideal would be to get a brand new pumping station with a brand new line. He said that since there was difficulty with property then the scrubber could wait. The Member suggested that if that turned out to be insurmountable why dont we go back to Electricity and expand their pump station and their well. 4865. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that it was not that simple. 4866. The PS stated that the scrubber required 525 gallons of water per minute. 4867. The PE stated that the scrubber uses fresh water and the saltwater is for cooling the fresh water which is recycled. 4868. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that we could go west or east. 4869. The Member for the Third District stated that there was a talk about renewable energy and it always came back to wasted energy. He enquired about the investments for our incinerator and who sucks up that cost. 4870. The Minister for Health and Social Development said that there were a number of ways for energy waste to fuel diesel and oil. He stated that they all want to go into a private/public partnership where the Government on the surface would not have to pay out any kind of money. He said that all the Government would have to be responsible for is to regulate it and ensure that garbage gets to their site. He also queried cost of building the incinerator. 4871. The PSHSD stated in the region of 10 million dollars.
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4872. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that we could not look at the loss of the 10 million dollars but at the total benefit that the country would get from the whole proposal. He stated that the incinerator would need to be fired up every now and again because, if left unattended, it would deteriorate and the people may go out of business with whom you made the Private/Public partnership. He said that it would be foolish of us if we do not at least keep the incinerator running even if it was once or week. 4873. The Member for the Third District stated that there is a cost as much as noble and renewable energy is. Subhead 75117 National Pension and Health Insurance 4874. The Member for the Third District enquired about the National Health Insurance. 4875. The PSHSD stated that was where the project was funded from the capital. 4876. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the National Health Insurance would be administered by a division of the Social Security Board Subhead 75118 Rainbow Childrens Home 4877. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian enquired whether we completed the purchase of the Rainbow Childrens Home or was there an amount outstanding. 4878. The PSHSD stated that the purchase was complete. Subhead 75112 Community Centres General 4879. The Member for the Third District stated that his views on Community Centres were mixed. He enquired whether we were having churches in the Community Centres. 4880. The PSHSD stated that the Belle Vue Community Centre was used regularly by a church.

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4881. The Member for the Third District enquired about the location of the Belle Vue Community Centre. The PSHSD stated that the Belle Vue Gym was what it was referred to. 4882. The Member for the Third District enquired whether downstairs of the gym was the Community Centre. The PSHSD stated yes and that there was a space below that it utilises. 4883. The Member for the Third District enquired whether downstairs was rented to the church. The PSHSD stated as far as her understanding. 4884. The Member for the Third District stated that there was no Community Centre. The Member spoke about the Community Centre in Sea Cows Bay and stated that there were times when persons were unable to use the Community Centre. He stated that one could not book a Community Centre for the same day of the week every week then it is no longer a Community Centre. He said that he wanted us to get back to what these facilities were intended for. He stated that they were there for the use of the Community. 4885. The PSHSD stated that the Ministry was making a policy to govern the use of Community Centres. She said that they had a draft. 4886. The Member for the Third District stated that they needed to make sure that the District Representatives were involved in those guidelines. 4887. The Member for the Fifth District stated that some young persons complained that they had no access to the Bellevue facility to keep anything or meet for any purpose because it was always occupied by a church and it is wrong. She stated that they needed to see those guidelines because communities should not be left out and policies should be put in place. 4888. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that there were several Community Centres that now had gyms.
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4889. The Member for the Fifth District stated that not all communities were the same which was another matter. 4890. The PSHSD stated that they would circulate the draft guidelines for the input from Members. 4891. The Member for the Eighth District queried about the gyms in the Community Centres. He enquired whether they were run by the Government or privately. 4892. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that they were privately run. 4893. The Member for the Third District stated that he knew there was a gym in Sea Cows Bay which was a gym in which the District Representative established for the Community. 4894. The Member for the Eighth District enquired who was accounting for the funds being collected by the gyms, considering that Government still had to maintain those gyms. 4895. The DSHSD stated that she knew that the Ministry of Education and Culture paid for some of the trainers at some of the gyms but the Government were responsible for the maintenance and that the funds did not come to the Government. 4896. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the monies collected needed to be accounted for. 4897. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that the persons who are charging persons to use the gym are collecting a fee and none of that is getting back to Government for the gym. 4898. The Member for the Fifth District stated that the Community Centre in Brewers Bay had no place for anyone to keep a program because the clinic had one half of it occupied and the senior citizens, the other half.

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4899. The Member for the Fifth District made a note to the Minister to say that when he saw the Community Centre in Bellevue Community Centre that the $500 allocated would be nothing when it came to repairing.

Subhead 75129 Social Housing 4900. The Member for the Third District enquired whether that was designated for IPOC funds. He asked that the program be explained. 4901. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that it was the no income program. He said that it was a family housing program that the Government had 4902. The Member for the Third District queried how the program could be accessed. 4903. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that it was a process that you go through. He said that one applied to Social Development. He further said that there was a single family with a need and their income was zero and they had five or six kids and wanted to build a place to live. He said that there was a program through Social Development Bank in conjunction with Development Bank. The Minister said that was a Project Manager for the project which was Elroy Turnbull and all of that was worked out between Social Development, Development Bank and the Ministry. He said that they were based on a specific set of plans that the late Paul Wattley drew about six models. The family would receive one of those and the contractor realizes the social program and the houses are built for them. He stated that an arrangement was made with Development Bank to pay $200 or $300 a month. 4904. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian queried whether that was different to the housing development program. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated yes. 4905. The Member for the Third District enquired whether there was a manager.

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4906. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that it starts with a request to the Ministry and handed over to Social Development to check the need analysis. 4907. The Member for the Third District enquired whether the person needed to have land. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that they needed to have a piece of land. 4908. The Member for the Third District enquired the cost of the last set of houses that were built. 4909. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that when they built the first set it was about $100,000.00 but now he understood that they started climbing to $125,000.00 Subhead 75131 MHSD Development Projects 4910. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that he would like to make a small adjustment. He stated that all of the $500.00 was put to keep the projects open and that he wanted to reduce it to $50.00. He said that if someone comes there is a project happening that the money would not be tied up but could be used to help in some way. 4911. The Member for the Fifth District enquired about the vision for the designs. She enquired how we would get the designs. 4912. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that if we got the cost for the design it could be accommodated. 4913. The PSHSD stated that they were seeking some clarity. She said that the notes made reference to a 911 call handler system which was under this same subhead 75131. She said that Subhead 75130 Information Technology (IT) Development showed that the provision for the 911 call handler system was transferred to Subhead 85260 Information Technology (IT) Development which was Communications and Works

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and under that Subhead there is a note which states that the provision was transferred to Subhead 75130. She enquired where the money was coming from and going to. 4914. The FS stated that the monies were in 75131. 4915. The PSHSD queried whether the 911 call handler system was with the Ministry of Health or Communications. The FS stated the Ministry of Health. 4916. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that it was transferred to 85260 then there was a discussion with the Minister and himself. He said that he told him to transfer it back and it was placed in this lump sum. 4917. The Member for the Third District enquired about the rationale for having the 911 call handling with the Ministry. He said that the 911 call handling is with Fire and Rescue and there was a school of thought that the 911 call handling system and the ambulance should be together and they decided that it should be with Fire, and now you are holding on to the ambulance and taking 911 call handling. 4918. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that it was with them. He stated that the call center sends out dispatch to Fire Rescue and it was not really stationed at the Fire station but it was a call centre.

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HEAD 8 Present:

MINISTRY OF COMMUNICATIONS AND WORKS

Mrs. Arlene Smith-Thompson Dr. Drexel Glasgow Mr. Bernard Grant Mrs. Margaret Jones-Greene

AgPSMC&W AgDPWD AgDDWS FPOMCW

4919. The Chairman thanked the AgPMCW for coming to SFC to give information and asked that they state their names and positions for the record to which they complied. 4920. The Member for the First District asked if there is a new Director of PWD. The AgPSMCW stated no. 4921. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that Dr. Drexel Glasgow is still the Ag. Director of PWD. Mr. Jeffery Skelton is currently appointed as a Consultant. 4922. The Member for the Third District enquired about the whereabouts of the AgDWS. The AgPSMCW stated that he had a previously health related appointment. 4923. The Member for the Fifth District asked to be guided with the capital budget. 4924. The Member for the Second District as a point of clarity stated that it has always been his understanding, in accordance with the Constitution and Financial Act, that funds not spent in a previous year, would go into a development fund that could be used for ongoing years. It seem to him that the monies from the Capital funds were taking out and he cannot follow clearly in the Budget how it was reallocated and asked if someone could assist in indicating out how it was done.

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4925. The Premier stated that over the years the monies that were expected to put in the capital Development Fund for projects was not put in that development fund; but was spent. Therefore, there are no monies in the capital Development Fund. 4926. The Member for the Second District stated that he understands what the Minister for Finance is saying; however, the capital fund is a legally established fund and he was hoping that the record in the budget could reflect the entire transaction. What is before the Members is a Bill to be approved by the House; but before it could be approved, there should be a clear process on how it is done. It is not clear and he would like to have a clear understanding on how it was done and what is being done. It is not a matter of transferring funds on paper; but more of having the legal processes outlined so that we could understand how it was done since the money was approved legally by the HOA. 4927. The FS stated that there is nothing constitutional or legal in any act that he is aware of that obligates the Government of the Virgin Islands to carry over unexpended funds. 4928. The Member for the Second District stated that he begs to differ simply because money taken from the Consolidated Fund could only be done through the House and when the house designate monies and approves it, it becomes the law of the land. Whatever monies are approved for capital funds should go into capital funds. 4929. The FS stated that the Appropriation Act deals with a particular year and the appropriations made to the Development Funds obtained for the year. Unless it is stated that projects are multiyear, then those appropriation for the project will only be obtained for those years. 4930. The Member for the Second District stated that the FS has to go by what the law states. At the end of each Financial Year money is approved for each Subhead. 4931. The Member for the Third District stated that the issue of money being appropriated for a financial year and not having the obligation to roll it over is granted. He could understand that in the case of recurrent expenditure; but the monies that are !"#$%"'#%&'%"#$%

appropriated for Capital Projects go into a fund that is established by the House. It cannot be taken out unless the house does so. It is not like monies are being

appropriated to a project; but is being put into a fund. He asked where is the money. 4932. The Premier stated that when monies are appropriated the total amount of monies is not always transferred into the Development Fund from the Consolidated Funds. 4933. The Member for the Second District stated that it is a financial mistake that has been made over the years and agrees that it must be fixed. When the Bill is finalised it becomes the law of the land and it must be followed. 4934. The Premier agreed with the Member and stated that all the monies in the Consolidated Fund were spent. 4935. The Member for the Second District stated that they must face the reality of where they are financially in order to move forward. 4936. The Member for the Third District stated that by looking at the budget, there is no trail and that every revote must be seen in the document and the notes must reflect the action taken to that revote. 4937. The Member for the Second District stated that it should state that the Council is taking action to return the monies even if its to show the paper trail to the Consolidated Fund. 4938. The Member for the Third District stated that a Fund was established and was funded; but the cash was not in there. 4939. The Premier stated that the suggestion is indicated in the notes what the revote was. The revote would be at zero. 4940. The Member for the Second District stated that the revote must be shown in the 2011 budget and then indicate in the notes transferred to the Consolidated Fund.

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4941. The Premier stated as a point of clarity asked if the amount of the votes should be in the notes and if it should indicate that it was transfer to the Consolidated Fund. 4942. The Member for the Second District agreed. 4943. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that this is not accounting because at the end of the day it wont add up since it would push the Consolidated Fund totally negative. 4944. The Member for the Third District stated that a supplementary could be done. 4945. The Minister for the Health and Social Development stated that a $250 mil budget is approved and through the years everyone seems to be looking for supplementary. At the end of the year $280mil is collected and supplementary of $20mil is approved that cause a deficit. 4946. The Member for the Second District stated that the word supplementary should be clearly stated as unauthorised expenditure and not supplementary. 4947. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that a Supplementary Appropriation purchase is a legal process. With the $20mil deficit (from his previous example) what should have happened is, the MOF should have gone back into the Capital side of the Budget and reallocate funding. You will find that approval was made, including supplementary, for about 4 or $5mil more than collected. 4948. The Member for the Second District stated that, that is the point he was trying to make earlier. The Member for the Second District stated that it is money that was legally approved by the House; but there is no actual money to be spent. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the only time that could be spent is if the private sector funds it, which they have been doing for years, funding government projects. 4949. The Member for the Third District stated that interest is not paid on accounts receivable.
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4950. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that it is bad practice. 4951. The Member for the Third District stated that talking about what type of practice it is, is not going to help. 4952. The Minister for the of Health and Social Development stated that what the Minister of Finance wants to do is to put the money in the Capital Fund under a Subhead in each Ministry. Thereafter funds will be allocated once the projects are identified and approved. Any other projects that come online could be funded and completed once there are monies available to complete them. 4953. The Member for the Third District stated that there is no argument there; the argument is how you get there. 4954. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that the UK is making them get there now. 4955. The Member for the Third District stated that he agrees; and they will get there. He asked what the total Capital Fund on paper was and how much money is in the Fund. 4956. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated about $100mil and currently there is residual money in the Capital Fund in the amount of $4.+mil. 4957. The Member for the Third District stated that currently there is no accounting for that $4.+mil. As he looked at the budget, there is no way he could trace that money. Over a period of years the money in the Capital Fund has been played with and some of the money may have been spent and not been accounted for. 4958. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that monies have been spent which cannot be accounted for. He further stated that from an accounting point of view, this matter must be cleaned up where the trail of money could be followed. 4959. The Member for the Third District stated that his suggestion in doing so is to go into the budget indicate the re-votes and in the notes it should say transferred to and
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place it in a particular subhead and deal with the right off from that particular subhead however you want to write-off. 4960. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that if they had followed through with the accrual system, then there would be no arguments. 4961. The Member for the Third District stated that the accrual system did not happen and this is the outcome. 4962. The Minister for Health and Social Development stated that he has argued that the system needs flexibility. 4963. The Premier stated that according to the Accountants, what is before them is a budget and not a financial statement. A budget is for a period of time. 4964. The Member for the Second District stated that these are funds established by the House and whatever goes in could only come out as approved by the House. 4965. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that he would make a general comment on how they will be approaching the comments under capital and have the AgPSMCW answer any questions. He further stated that in the budget they allowed some specific projects allocations that they want to ensure can cover certain areas and can be allocated to the Districts in certain areas. The reason they left $1mil under Subhead 85141 - Central Administration Complex project is because they are on the verge of signing contracts to complete it and deal with it urgently. They have also made the determination that in each District they will be able to do some mitigation projects and $90,000 has been allocated to Subhead 85203 Civil Works Mitigation, which will be spread throughout the Districts to deal with mitigation projects over the year. 4966. Territorial Member, Archibald C. Christian asked if that would be connected to each of the other Districts if there is a need for other works.

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4967. The Minister for Communications and Works stated yes and they will be in liaison with various District Representatives to deal with requests. He further stated that it is similar for Subhead 85251 Road Constructions. 4968. The Minister for Education and Culture stated that apart from the historical information that is useful on page 281 of Draft C what is listed without any figures to them are duplication of what was done before. 4969. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that it gives the flexibility that if there is specific road construction that requires additional funding it could be moved from the general fund. He further stated that a lot of the re-votes has been allocated there leaving $4.5mil, plus estimated amount for the development projects of $2.15mil. This also gives the flexibility to do various projects over the year in the various Districts. As Minister he is open and flexible and he has started to visit the nine districts. What was decided is that there are urgent projects and some are considered emergencies such as the roads in Jost Van Dyke and works has already begun on that. In addition, they are also looking at Ballast Bay and other areas that they think are crucial although some are to be funded through the CDB loan. Since that is not available they have prioritise the work and complete them before the next rainy season. He has not been to the Third or the First District but there are a few projects in those districts that are considered priorities. There is a road in the Eight District that runs by the burial ground in Greenland and they are waiting for the engineering to be completed. Other than that he will be going through the Districts with Members to look at what they consider are priorities. The Ministry has budgeted a number of projects for the year that helps to make up the budget. One of the major projects that they know they have to complete is one that the former Minister started that emanated from the flooding and electricity power outage in Pockwood Pond. This is how they intend to operate and he will be working with all thirteen (13) Members to ensure that they could achieve this throughout the nine (9) districts in the territory.

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4970. The Member for the Second District referred to Subhead -85259 Heavy Equipment/Vehicle Purchase and asked what it entails. 4971. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that it is an amount that is allocated to replace the current asphalt plant. In their vote they allocated $300,000. 4972. The Member for the Third District referred to Subhead 85141 Central Administration Complex and asked if any contracts have been signed with a Roof Contractor as yet. The AgPSMCW stated no. 4973. The Member for the Third District asked why a contract to repair the roof of the Central Administration Building has not been signed as yet. 4974. The AgPSMCW stated that they were close to signing a contract with Expert Roof out of St. Martin; but there were a number of concerns that they had to finalise. The AG raised those concerns and they have been addressed; however, there is an issue with the former contractor, Roy Construction, who did not satisfy all of his obligations to his subcontractors. They need some of the subcontractors to complete their projects. Even though there was a bond arrangement in place to take care of a certain amount of payments to the subcontractors it wasnt enough to cover all of them and that is holding up the project from going forward and it has to be addressed. Roy

Construction was paid to pay his subcontractors and he defaulted on those arrangements. She prepared a Cabinet paper asking if consideration could be given where they pay the subcontractor and find a legal way to go after Roy Construction. 4975. The Member for the Third District asked when the contract was ready to be signed. 4976. The AgPSMCW stated October 2011. It was that late because they had a long procedure that they had to go through the bond company trying to exit the contract with Royce Construction that took almost a year. The AG had concerns with the draft contract that has since been resolved.

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4977. The Member for the Third District stated that everyone was already sitting in the room to sign the contract and this technicality came up with the AG. He thought that within a week the AGs concerns might have been satisfied. He further stated that 80% of the work was completed on the roof and by the time the contract is signed the portion of work completed would have to be removed and replaced for it would be useless. 4978. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that it is a high priority area and appreciates the concerns of The Member for the Third District. They are moving in the direction of signing the contract soon. 4979. The Member for the Third District asked about the status of the Cabinets Office. The AgPSMCW stated that the mechanical drawings were finalised for the Cabinets Office to be redone. 4980. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that the Cabinets Office is being reviewed and is under consideration. 4981. The Member for the Third District stated that one thing that cannot be up for reconsideration is the state of the building and the health concerns itself it poses. 4982. The AgPSMCW stated that the whole remediation project for the Central Administration Complex continues to be a high priority. As AgPSMCW said she has always had a hand in moving the project forward and has worked closely with the Project Management Unit. They now have the Project Support Unit from the

Ministry of Finance who has been rendering valuable support. 4983. Territorial Member the Archibald C. Christian referred to Subhead 85248 Sea Cows Bay Harbour Development and asked what the cost of the project is so far. 4984. The Premier stated that it would be left as it is. It is a priority of the Government; but they will come back to it for discussions.

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4985. The Member for the Third District asked if the project is not going to be funded. The Premier stated not right now. 4986. The AgPSMCW stated that she would gather the necessary information and present to the SFC since they do not have a definite amount. 4987. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian stated that the estimated cost for 2011 is $88,161 and there is also the estimated expenditure $643,398. He asked what those figures represent. 4988. The AgPSMCW stated that $643,398 represents monies spent on the project over a period of time. To date, for 2011 the figures are show $142,370. 4989. The Member for the Third District, as a point of clarity, asked if $643,398 was spent over a period of time and spent doing what. It must be committed in contract; but not spent. The AgPSMCW stated according to the notes. The FS stated that he would have to double check. 4990. The Member for the Third District stated that where it says Civil Works Mitigation, the money was spent on other things associated with the harbor such as ghut training and drainage, which means that the figures could be right. 4991. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian asked what the expenditure was for, and if there is an itemised breakdown for the monies spent. 4992. The AgDPWD stated that the works to date included fencing and the construction of concrete sheet piles. 4993. The Minister for Communications and Works stated that it has always been his view that Members should represent to the Government their project. He would be willing to be entertained by The Member for the Third District to present his project so that it could be given further consideration.

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4994. The Member for the Fifth District reiterated that the Minister for the Ministry of Communications and Works indicated that he would be doing visits to the Districts. 4995. The Chairman thanked the AgPSMEC for coming and giving information to the SFC and wished them well.

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HEAD 9 Present:

MISCELLANEOUS

Mr. Neil Smith

Financial Secretary, Ministry of Finance (FS)

4996. The Chairman welcomed the FS and asked that he state his name to which he complied. Sub Head 95062 Equity Contribution Financial Investigation Agency 4997. The FS noted that the money came from IPOC funds and was allocated based on international best practices. He noted that the Financial Investigation Agency was almost solely responsible for confiscating over forty-two million dollars ($42,000,000.00) so as the agency responsible they had to receive some of the funds. He further noted that the decision for the allocation was also made by the House of Assembly. Sub Head 95059 Special Projects 4998. The Member for the Second District asked which Ministry was responsible for the Sub Head entail. The FS informed that the Ministry of Finance was responsible. Sub Head 95058 Equity Contribution BVI Electricity Corp. 4999. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked for an explanation on the Sub Head. The FS explained that it had occurred in the past where Government felt it necessary to inject some funds in one of its Statutory Bodies and the monies were used to purchase generators. 5000. The Minister for Health and Social Development asked if the funds were for 2011. The FS advised that it was for up to last year. Sub Head 95052 CDB SDF Assessment 5001. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian for acquaintance purposes enquired how many cycles there were in the programme as he saw that it was up to its seventh !"#$%"(#%&'%"#$%

cycle. The FS explained that seventh cycle was just finishing and it was for the Special Development Fund with the Caribbean Development Bank (CDB). He also noted that negotiations were now beginning for the eight cycle. Sub Head 95061 Housing Development Project 5002. Territorial Member Archibald C. Christian noted that no allocations were provided for 2012. The FS informed that there was a facility through the National Bank of the Virgin Islands (NBVI) and in conjunction with the CDB which the National Business Bureau was developing to access the funds. The FS noted that the Premiers Office was going to deal specifically with the Sub Head and that the same process applied for Sub Head 95060 which was at risk at being resended to the CDB. Sub Head 95060 DBVI/CDB Student Loan Scheme 5003. The Member for the Eighth District asked if the money was just sitting there. The FS confirmed that it was just sitting at the CDB. 5004. The Member for the Eighth District asked if any money was being paid on it. The FS confirmed that commitment fees were being paid. The FS asked that further

discussions on this Sub Head be placed off the record as CDB wanted to give the money to the Territory. The FS further stated that a Scholarship Trust Fund Board was set up to deal with the distribution of the funds but the Managing Director of the NBVI refused to proceed on the matter. Thus the funds were just sitting there with commitment fees being paid but the requests were never forwarded to the CDB even though the Board would make decisions. 5005. The Member for the Eighth District asked if the total amount was eight hundred and fifty-eight thousand dollars ($858,000.00) or if it was two hundred and fifty thousand dollars ($250,000.00). The FS explained that there were previous schemes and they totaled eight hundred and fifty-eight thousand dollars ($858,000.00)

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5006. The Member for the Eighth District asked how much Money was available. The FS explained that he did not know the exact figure but estimated it to be around two million dollars ($2,000,000.00). Sub Head 95051 CDB Share Capital 5007. The FS noted that as a shareholder, shares had to be bought and he wanted to warn Members that the fees for the shares were going to increase in the share capital contribution from the Virgin Islands as there was a need to re-capitalize the bank, hence the increase. 5008. The Minister for the Health and Social Development asked how many shares were owned by the Virgin Islands. The FS informed that he did not know how much was owned as individuals as the Territory was part of a block which was owned by other Caribbean OTs and Belize. 5009. The Chairman thanked the FS for his contributions to the SFC.

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CONCLUSION 5010. The examination of the Recurrent Budget Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure and the Capital Budget Estimates of Receipts and Expenditure for the year 2012 conducted by the Standing Finance Committee was a process that entailed interviews of all the Ministries, Departments and Statutory Bodies of Government. The process involved the Premier and Members of the House of Assembly, the Financial Secretary and the Staff of the Ministry of Finance, the Clerk and Staff of the House of Assembly, Permanent Secretaries, Accounting Officers and key personnel from the Ministries, Departments and Statutory Bodies. 5011. The Chairman thanked all persons mentioned above, the employees who assisted as Secretaries to the Standing Finance Committee and other auxiliary personnel for the time and effort given in assisting with the deliberations. The Chairman also thanked the members who had attended all of the deliberations for their dedication to the process. Dated on the day of March, 2012

Ingrid A. Moses-Scatliffe Chairman

Phyllis Evans Secretary

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APPENDIX

Dates and Times of Deliberations of the Standing Finance Committee To Examine Draft Estimates for the Year 2012

Date of Meetings

Commenced

Concluded

26th January, 2012 27th January, 2012 30th January, 2012 31st January, 2012 2nd February, 2012 3rd February, 2012 6th February, 2012 7th February, 2012 9th February, 2012 10th February, 2012 13th February, 2012 16th February, 2012

10:37 a.m. 10:26 a.m. 10:38 a.m. 10:28 a.m. 10:29 a.m. 11:29 a.m. 10:46 a.m. 10:21 a.m. 11:04 a.m. 2:35 p.m. 10:44 a.m. 10:41 a.m.
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6:59 p.m. 7:28 p.m. 6:41 p.m. 7:00 p.m. 6:38 p.m. 4:55 p.m. 7:03 p.m. 7:00 p.m. 9:08 p.m. 6:00 p.m. 4:45 p.m. 8:09 p.m.

17th February, 2012 20th February, 2012 21st February, 2012 23rd February, 2012 24th February, 2012 27th February, 2012 28th February, 2012

10:47 a.m. 10:35 a.m. 10:46 a.m. 10:32 a.m. 11:13 a.m. 10:30 a.m. 10:32 a.m.

4:35 p.m. 6:35 p.m. 5:42 p.m. 6:41 p.m. 6:58 p.m. 6:30 p.m. 3:15 p.m.

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