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Front end rebuild frustrations

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vchead Post subject: Front end rebuild frustrations

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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:09 pm

APPRENTICE

Embarking on rebuilding the front end of my VC. Following instructions from VH770 and others but have hit first hurdle. I have got all nuts off UCA, pitman arm, idler arm, tie rod ends and have separated stub axle from LBJ and have shocks off. Now I am buggered if I can separate any of the parts. How do you get the parts to separate? and how do you get the bolts out of the UCA? I bought a ball joint splitter fork thing and it doesn't work. I have bashed every part but nothing will budge. I am on third can of Inox / WD40. Any thoughts would be great, Rod

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:01 pm Posts: 153 Location: Sydney First Name: Rod Main Ride: VC Regal 67 Top VC-Eight

Post subject: Re: Front end rebuild frustrations

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:44 pm

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The UCA bolts you might be able to get by using a neat fitting ring spanner to turn them back and forth while putting a bit of pressure on the spanner to work it out. The spanner sort of jams on the head of the bolt enough to move the bolt along it's length, but don't push too hard or it will slip off. Ball joint would probably have been easier with everything still bolted together so the torsion bar could put some pressure on things. But anyway, if you hold a hammer against the stub axle on one side of where the ball joint goes through and then belt directly opposite on the stub axle a couple of times it should loosen the grip of the taper and it will come apart.

Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:17 am Posts: 2197 Location: Launceston, Tas First Name: Craig Main Ride: VC V8, AP6 Regal project Top nqkjw Post subject: Re: Front end rebuild frustrations Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:49 pm

Ok ,you've done it a bit different to the way I go but we'll work with what youve done.
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Put a 3/4 spanner or socket on the UCA cam bolts and rotate them up and down to free them up a little.Then they should hammer out easily. Remove the LCA and torsion bar as one unit. To do this...remove the clip at the back of the tb,unbolt the front of the LCA shaft that goes through the K-frame,unbolt the strut bar from the front of the K-frame. Drive the whole lot backwards by belting the LCA shaft.If it's been there a long time they can be stubborn.

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:48 pm Posts: 6011 Location: townsville NQ

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Top ve6-h-41 Post subject: Re: Front end rebuild frustrations Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:55 pm

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Are you talking about the cam bolts rod? I dont use the pickle fork much for ball joints and tie rods. I use a ball joint splitter, the type that you do up the bolt. Tension it up then smack the side of the offending part. However, I have snapped the casting on one before putting too much on it before the whack.

Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:24 pm Posts: 4693 Location: NQld First Name: Luke

_________________ Dart front, Barracuda tail, All Australian, VE valiant, Car of the Year 1967!

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vkval

Post subject: Re: Front end rebuild frustrations

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:06 pm

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To remove the UCA bolts, make sure you have the flat of the bolt lined up with the flat of the bracket. If you can wiggle them out enough to get a flat bladed screw driver inbetween the cam of the bolt and the bracket, use that to lever it out. Seems to work for me fairly well. Tierod ends. Belt the stub axle with a hammer and it should jolt free. If that doesn't work, a tierod seperator should do the job. Idler arm. Use a tierod seperator and a hammer to remove this from the draglink. Same applies with the pitman arm to draglink. With the above items, make sure you have the tierod seperator at the bottom of the draglink/stub axle and use brute force and ignorance on the tierod seperator. They'll let go eventually. Alternatively, if you don't intend to use those parts again, hit the threaded part of the bits downwards with a hammer. That'll move them quick smart. Hope you have the idea now _________________ Now would a baby lie

Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:48 pm Posts: 5120

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ben simpson

Post subject: Re: Front end rebuild frustrations

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:15 pm

MOPARMARKET.COM LIFEMEMBER Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:30 pm Posts: 4631 Location: Gold Coast QLD Mudgeeraba First Name: ben Top

can be hard to arrange it this way, but i find a hammer held behind any hole (with a tapered shaft joint in it ie tie rod ends, ball joints etc etc) then hit with another hammer works well. the force seems to transfer through the hammers and seems to do the trick. (i dont own a pickle fork - never have)

vchead

Post subject: Re: Front end rebuild frustrations

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:12 am

Thanks everyone. Sounds like more muscle and less swearing and cursing is required.
APPRENTICE

VK, when you mention the tie rod seperator are you referring to the fork thing? Thanks again all, Rod

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:01 pm Posts: 153 Location: Sydney First Name: Rod Main Ride: VC Regal 67 Top

vchead

Post subject: Re: Front end rebuild frustrations

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:38 pm

Thanks for all your help. Progress is being made.

APPRENTICE

So far I have employed the fork splitter things, bought an air hammer which has also helped. I have the stub axles off, the UCA off on both sides and the LCA/torsion bar/strut all off the LHS. My next challenge is the LCA on drivers side. I cant see how it can slide backwards out of the Kframe without hitting the steering box. Do I need to remove steering box or can I loosen the Kframe? The engine is supported in the same way as nqkjw showed me in the attached link viewtopic.php?f=46&t=21152 and I intend removing the krame to paint it anyway Thanks, Rod

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:01 pm Posts: 153 Location: Sydney First Name: Rod Main Ride: VC Regal 67

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VH770

Post subject: Re: Front end rebuild frustrations

Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:17 am

hi rod,
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you are right, the steering box gets in the way (no matter how you go about it). the way i remove torsion bars is with vice grips clamped onto them and swinging a hammer at the vice grips until the bar comes free. alternatively you could make a clamp to suit the job specifically if you were so inclined. cheers

Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:23 pm Posts: 9866 Location: Sydney First Name: Charles Top

vchead

Post subject: Re: Front end rebuild frustrations

Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:30 am

Thanks Charles,
APPRENTICE

I notice in your fantastic illustrated instructions of removing your LCAs that you removed the steering box. I reckon though if I get the torsion bar out as you describe then I could then take the KFrame and LCA out was one then put them back in that way later. what do you reckon?

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:01 pm Posts: 153 Location: Sydney First Name: Rod Main Ride: VC Regal 67 Top VH770 Post subject: Re: Front end rebuild frustrations Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:57 am

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vchead wrote:

Thanks Charles, I notice in your fantastic illustrated instructions of removing your LCAs that you removed the steering box. I reckon though if I get the torsion bar out as you describe then I could then take the KFrame and LCA out was one then put them back in that way later. what do you reckon?

Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:23 pm Posts: 9866 Location: Sydney First Name: Charles

yep that's possible if you want, i dont remember why my steering box was out but it would have made it a fair bit easier to get that driver's side TB out. there are many ways to skin a cat i guess! cheers

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robertodonnell

Post subject: Re: Front end rebuild frustrations

Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:10 pm

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From my recollections you have to remove the steering box on a VC to get the LCA's out. Don't forget to squirt some WD on the LCA pin and the socket where the torsion bar meets the chassis. Oh, and remove the clip behind the torsion bar so it actually slides out! _________________ Cheers,

Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:23 am Posts: 1323 Location: Newcastle, NSW First Name: Robert Main Ride: Varies daily!

Robert AP5 Regal stock AP6 Regal 318, 5 speed, R&P power steer 1992 Subaru Liberty RS Turbo 1995 BMW 540i 6 speed LE #65/70

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nqkjw

Post subject: Re: Front end rebuild frustrations

Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:38 pm

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robertodonnell wrote:

From my recollections you have to remove the steering box on a VC to get the LCA's out.

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:48 pm Posts: 6011 Location: townsville NQ

Ah Yes!!! VCs!!!! That's right!!!! However,if you're removing the K-frame you won't have to drop the steering box. Just get the RH LCA back as far as you can till it hits the steering box and then drop the K-frame. Torsion bar should be loose enough at this stage to slide backwards. _________________

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vchead

Post subject: Re: Front end rebuild frustrations

Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:52 am

APPRENTICE

Well its done. RHS LCA came loose but hit the steering box when it slid back. Once the torsion was out I loosened the KFrame to remove it the LCA came out. No front end whatsoever on the VC at the moment. Now how do you put it together again? Rod

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:01 pm Posts: 153 Location: Sydney First Name: Rod Main Ride: VC Regal 67 Top VH770 Post subject: Re: Front end rebuild frustrations Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:28 pm

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vchead wrote:

Now how do you put it together again?

Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:23 pm Posts: 9866 Location: Sydney First Name: Charles

things I do from here are: - clean (wire-wheel/drill, degreaser, wire brush) and paint (spray enamel/rust-proof paint; your call) all components (i.e. LCA's, UCA's, radius rods, Kframe, tie rods, stub axles, steering link, torsion bars) - remove old LCA bushes, fit new LCA bushes into LCA's (i get my local suspension shop to do this labour for me as i dont have an air chisel or a press) - remove old UCA bushes and ball joints, fit replacements (again, if you dont have the specialised super-sized socket for the UBJ's, borrow one or get it done by your local suspension shop who will hopefully have access to one) - remove old tie rod ends, fit replacements (with enough turns to achieve roughly the same dimensions as what you removed - this will get you close enough so you can at least drive to the wheel aligners) - buy replacement bolts where necessary (UCA adjusters are okay to re-use, but basically anything else can be replaced; i.e. LBJ bolts, brake caliper bolts, shock absorber lower bolts..). use copper based anti-seize thread lube on all new threads (ball joints as well as bolts) before assembly, i'd also take the opportunity to rebuild the front brakes if inclined (lots of cleaning and painting; new rotors/bearings/pads/hoses) and also to clean and paint the wheel arches if you were in the mood. also, if you didnt already have a sway bar setup, now would be the time to address that if you wanted to (LCA's need sway bar link mounting tabs welded onto them, k-frame needs 4 holes drilled in its forward lip to accomodate the D-bush brackets, and you'll need obviously the sway bar itself/D-bush brackets/link assemblies - if you want more info on this job, ask). once you are happy with the condition of all the components, assembly is just a process of: - fitting the K-frame - fitting the radius rods and LCA bump stops to the LCA's, and make sure the torsion bar adjuster bolt is wound all the way out (lube this thread with anti-seize too) - sliding the LCA's forward into the K-frame at both points (shaft-rear and rod-front) and tightening them up, not forgetting the new radius rod bushes.

you may need to again make sure here that the rear radius rod nut is tight (it's hard to tighten it completely on the bench) - hammering the torsion bars forward into their hex bushes in the LCA's, then fitting the rear C-clip after packing boot/rear hex with grease - fitting the UCA's and bolting them in (heads of the adjuster bolts are IN, nuts are OUT) - be sure to get the right UCA on the right side of the car as well! look at the position of the UCA bump stops if confused - fit UCA bump stops to chassis - fit new shock absorbers (put lots of anti-seize all along the bolt! its a real bastard to get out sometimes and if i ever end up owning your cars in future, i dont want to spend half a day removing the bolt thanks!! ) - bolting the lower ball joints to the stub axles - securing the stub axle (wheel) assembly to the UCA and the LCA - may need some leverage here; be careful, cars can fall off their jack stands - fitting idler arm (roller bearing upgrade kits are available) and pitman arm to chassis/steering box where necessary (idler arms are usually always necessary, pitman arms maybe not so much) - fitting steering link to idler/pitman arms - get it orientated correctly, it can be a bit confusing after 10 hours of brutalising cast iron with hammers - joining steering link to both wheel assemblies (LBJ's) via tie rods - sway bar if applicable use the following chart to know how much torque is required at each bolt:

once you have everything assembled and you have double and triple checked that all nuts are tightened to spec, set the torsion bar adjuster bolts (however many turns in will set the ride height at the front) and put the car on the ground. there is a factory specific height to set it to here if you want to know about it, just ask and i'll instruct you (most people just go by eye). after you are happy with the height (roughly set it a bit higher than you would like), pack all the balljoints with grease and take it for a short drive. this drive will make everything tighten up and the height will lower a little bit. during that drive, slam on the brakes and throw the weight of the car directly forward; this will lock in the radius rod bushes. put the car back up on the stands and re-check that all threads are tightened to spec and that there is no damage to anything or any of the bushes look weird, etc. after this, its time to go to the wheel aligners. cheers

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vchead

Post subject: Re: Front end rebuild frustrations

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:39 am

You are a legend Charles

APPRENTICE

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:01 pm Posts: 153 Location: Sydney First Name: Rod Main Ride: VC Regal 67 Top

vchead

Post subject: Re: Front end rebuild frustrations

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:51 am

APPRENTICE

two questions Charles. * You mention putting the steering link on the pitman and idler arms then orientate correctly. Do you just mean making sure that the steering wheel is centred when I connect the linkage? * How do I ensure the tie rod ends are facing the right way when I replace them? I know I should make note of the length of the tie rods as they are

now but not sure how I get the ends back to the same orientation? Another general question is how do I get all the ball joints (ie tie rod ends, pitman and idler arm ball joints) into the holes with the taper? Do I just use the force of screwing the nuts to squeeze them in? Thanks Charles,
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:01 pm Posts: 153 Location: Sydney First Name: Rod Main Ride: VC Regal 67

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Clarkie383

Post subject: Re: Front end rebuild frustrations

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:53 am

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Ok,Im going to need all my front end and motor out of my VC. Can i disconnect steering,upper control arms and drop the lot down as a complete unit. What would need to be done with the torsion bars,removed separately or left with the front end. All my components look very good so dont really need a full strip down. I just have some chassis rust to fix so was hoping to keep front end complete. _________________ It's not that I hate you.. it's just, put it this way. If you were on fire and I had water, i'd drink it.

Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:01 pm Posts: 1524 Location: Geraldton WA First Name: Wayne Main Ride: '68 Phoenix, VC regal sdn Top

vchead

Post subject: Re: Front end rebuild frustrations

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:05 am

Welcome to VC ownership.
APPRENTICE

I have just pulled whole front end off as well as KFrame. I did it in pieces however. I read somewhere once that the whole front end can be removed as a unit and I reckon you could possibly get close. Torsion bars would need to come out I expect. When I got the RHS LCA out I left it in the kframe and it came out as one so you could probably do the same with both. You will have to disconnect the brake lines but that is obvious. I wouldnt be under it when it drops out though. Not sure if this is helpful. Im still only half way through my first front end Rod

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:01 pm Posts: 153 Location: Sydney First Name: Rod Main Ride: VC Regal 67

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VH770

Post subject: Re: Front end rebuild frustrations

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:08 am

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Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:23 pm Posts: 9866 Location: Sydney First Name: Charles

hey rod,
Quote:

You mention putting the steering link on the pitman and idler arms then orientate correctly. Do you just mean making sure that the steering wheel is centred when I connect the linkage?

when i said orientate correctly i just meant to take care about positioning the steering link in the right place and putting the pitman/idler threads in the right holes - i.e. not dealing with idler arms or wheel alignment yet. i've done it before where i got the pitman arm correct but i accidentally put the idler arm in the tie-rod end hole. also just make sure you dont have the steering link facing upside down. the way it works is that the pitman arm goes into the inner of the two holes and the idler arm goes into the outer of the two holes. check the image below to make sure you get it correct:

Quote:

How do I ensure the tie rod ends are facing the right way when I replace them? I know I should make note of the length of the tie rods as they are now but not sure how I get the ends back to the same orientation?

as seen in the above image, the tie rod ends where they bolt to the steering link have the nuts facing downwards. likewise on the LBJ's the nuts on the tie rod ends on both sides face upwards. also note that the adjusters of the tie rods themselves, when installed, face downwards. that should be enough information to make sure you align the tie rods correctly.
Quote:

Another general question is how do I get all the ball joints (ie tie rod ends, pitman and idler arm ball joints) into the holes with the taper? Do I just use the force of screwing the nuts to squeeze them in?

with any luck, yes. tightening the nut should pull it down into its hole and that hopefully is all she wrote. sometimes you get stubborn ones that just spin as you turn them and the trick is to load them up with weight before tightening the nut. in other words, if you want to tighten the lower ball joint nut in the LCA eyelet, you should first jack up the car on the bottom of the ball joint (use a piece of wood or something to spread the surface area if you want) which will force the taper of the ball joint into the eyelet and then not allow it to spin as you tighten the nut. in instances where it is the reverse (like inner tie rod ends, such bastards) then you need to figure out a way to load up the taper. in the past i've used G-clamps with frustrating/limited success. cheers

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