Importance of Ahadith Assalam-u-Alaikum, How important are the Ahadith when it comes to getting a correct understanding of the Quran?

Im thinking particularly of times of revelation for the verses and Surahs, the context to certain verses, to the environment of the time etc.
atifrafi
PAKISTAN Posted - Saturday, October 09, 2004 - 6:25 AM

Assalam o Alaikum, I think the points you mentioned regarding the time of revelation & context to certain verses... We don't have any other source as authentic as Ahadith and if any one wants to know about the context of a certain verse, the environment & time in which it was revealed the only and most authentic source is the Ahadith. So, we being muslims cannot deny the importance of the ahadith in our daily life. Regards

Shereen
UNITED KINGDOM

Posted - Monday, October 11, 2004 - 6:10 PM

Assalamualikom The importance of hadith cannot be undermined. Hadith is a source of detailed narrations which demostrate islamic principles found in the Quran. However it is important to keep in mind the validity of hadith.
Posted - Friday, November 26, 2004 - 5:31 AM

Tariq Hashmi

PAKISTAN

Is the discussion: http://www.monthlyrenaissance.com/janqur2y3.html of any importance in this regard?? Edited by: tariq hashmi on Friday, November 26, 2004 5:33 AM

hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM

Posted - Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:32 AM

yes I think its important in order to understand the similar stance regarding hadith e.g. "Only those narratives should be considered worthwhile in this regard which are in harmony with the context of the surah rather than those which disrupt its coherence."

perv1
UNITED KINGDOM

Posted - Friday, March 04, 2005 - 9:35 PM

How can you rely on a source which was written 200 years after completion of the Quran. It contradicts itself and the Quran. There are numerous contradictions within the hadith. If these contradictions are so obvious how can you trust anything within the hadith. How on earth did the muslims interpert the Quran for 250yrs until the hadith came long. What is the point of an hadith when it merely confirms what is in the Quran, if however it cannot be validated by the Quran then how can you trust it to be true. God has used the word Hadith approx 18 times in the Quran every mention is to condemn any hadith other than the Quran. Are you seriously suggesting that God was not aware what the word hadith would come to symbolise in the present day or what was the purpose of God stating in the Quran not to believe in any hadith other the ayats and verses of the Quran or not to believe in any hadith other than the Quran. hadith and mullahs have caused endless damage to islam by diverting people away

from the true message of God as revealed in the Quran. It is also astonishing that virtuall all the translations of the Quran the word hadith has not been left just as such.
hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM Posted - Sunday, April 03, 2005 - 3:23 PM

Actually we need to keep the hadith in its right position. People who took it as A SOURCE OF RELIGION i.e. trying to find rulings or laws from hadith, transgressed because the source of religion is comprised of the Qura'n and the Sunnah and the people who ignored it completely whilst UNDERSTANDING the religion, i.e. day to day manners and dealings, manners of eating, dressing up, manners of talking, cleanliness, details about the life of the prophet sws, etc, they transgressed as well when they ignored the hadith completely. Facts found in the hadith are like jewels. These jewels have the SPIRIT of the deen and the best practice of the prophet sws i.e. uswa e hasanah If a person has a vision, he can gain something from the hadith, which is not available anywhere else Edited by: hkhan on Sunday, April 03, 2005 3:26 PM

Hischam khan
UNITED KINGDOM

Posted - Sunday, April 03, 2005 - 9:06 PM

Assalam-u-Alaikum, quote: How can you rely on a source which was written 200 years after completion of the Quran. It

contradicts itself There are numerous within the hadith. contradictions are you trust anything hadith.

and the Quran. contradictions If these so obvious how can within the

Historic events and happenings can often not be known with absolute certainty. However, there can at least be a high probability that they are correct. The way of the historians in such instances has always been to accept historic information if there is nothing to invalidate it and if it fits in alongside the facts. There are indeed numerous Ahadith going back to the Prophet (p) with complete chains of narrators and also enough information on their personality. The Ahadith scholars have invented a whole new science in their study of the accuracy of Ahadith which historians worldwide have come to admire. Had we rejected all historic information merely on the grounds that they are not 100 % facts, then we would have very little knowledge of our history today. All Ahadith do not contradict each other. There is an enormous amount of Ahadith that are authentic, and in complete harmony with what is in the Quran, the Sunnah and established facts. If this is so, should we then reject it merely because it is not an absolute certainty, even though we cannot find anything wrong in it? Is this how little importance we give to knowledge on the life of the Prophet (p)?

quote: How on earth did the muslims interpert the Quran for 250yrs until the hadith came long. The first Muslims would have interpreted the Quran in light of its context and style.

They would have understood its language best. But they also would have had knowledge of its background. The Ahadith provide us with background information and such a thing for a piece of literature is always of value. There is no doubt about that.

quote: What is the point of an hadith when it merely confirms what is in the Quran The Ahadith do not merely confirm what is in the Quran, they are a historic source on the life of the Prophet (p).

quote: God has used the word Hadith approx 18 times in the Quran every mention is to condemn any hadith other than the Quran. Are you seriously suggesting that God was not aware what the word hadith would come to symbolise in the present day or what was the purpose of God stating in the Quran not to believe in any hadith other the ayats and verses of the Quran or not to believe in any hadith other than the Quran. hadith and mullahs have caused endless damage to islam by diverting people away from the true message of God as revealed in the Quran. It is also astonishing that virtuall all the translations of the Quran the word hadith has not been left just as such. There is nothing astonishing about it whatsoever. The word has a meaning and the meaning is what is important. It was not used as a term in the Quran bottom

line! You can say that God knew about the future emergence of Ahadith, but that does not mean that we interpret verses as we desire, taking them out of context and adding new meanings on to them. Why did He not clearly tell them that the Hadith He is referring to are those which are going to be compiled by Muhammads (p) followers? Why leave it so vague, especially when such a big issue is now being made out of it? What I find astonishing is the lengths that people go to, to invent and clutch unto their own ideas even when it is completely unsupported by the context. Have they forgotten how to interpret a piece of literature? Lastly, if you havent already done so, I would advice you to read through the modules as you will find answers to most of what you have in mind there. It is also a pre-requisite for anyone wishing to take this course. Without it, you would struggle in the quizzes. regards
perv1
UNITED KINGDOM Posted - Monday, April 11, 2005 - 10:45 PM

All Ahadith do not contradict each other. There is an enormous amount of Ahadith that are authentic, and in complete harmony with what is in the Quran, the Sunnah and established facts. If this is so, should we then reject it merely because it is not an absolute certainty, even though we cannot find anything wrong in it? Is this how little importance we give to knowledge on the life of the Prophet (p)? If you are looking at Islam there is no room for for even slightest falsehood or contradiction. However if you are looking at hadith book merely as asource of history then that that is a completely different issue.

TextThe first Muslims would have interpreted the Quran in light of its context and style. They would have understood its language best. But they also would have had knowledge of its background. The Ahadith provide us with background information and such a thing for a piece of literature is always of value. There is no doubt about that. why is it of a value? How can you be so sure that there is no doubt when you yourself accept that some of thhe hadiths are not accurate. There is nothing astonishing about it whatsoever. The word has a meaning and the meaning is what is important. It was not used as a term in the Quran bottom line! You can say that God knew about the future emergence of Ahadith, but that does not mean that we interpret verses as we desire, taking them out of context and adding new meanings on to them. Why did He not clearly tell them that the Hadith He is referring to are those which are going to be compiled by Muhammads (p) followers? Why leave it so vague, especially when such a big issue is now being made out of it? What I find astonishing is the lengths that people go to, to invent and clutch unto their own ideas even when it is completely unsupported by the context. Have they forgotten how to interpret a piece of literature? I am afraid you are the one interpreting the word and its meaning I have simply left it intact. What do you think God means by the sentence- which hadith other than the Quran are you going believe. I am not sure why you are so convinced that you are ideas so right and others merely clutching, exactly which text supports your prejudices. Perhaps ou can start a course on how to interpret the

literature correctly then no one will ever disagree with your interpretation.
Hischam khan
UNITED KINGDOM Posted - Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 8:05 AM

quote: If you are looking at Islam there is no room for for even slightest falsehood or contradiction. However if you are looking at hadith book merely as asource of history then that that is a completely different issue. Like I said, it is a source of history. It is about the Prophets (p) life and environment. He is an important figure. Therefore, though it is a source of history, it is more special to us. What is contained in it will be an example for us. A source of history on his life will inevitably have lots of information on how he practiced, preached and understood the religion. Such a thing can be very valuable. Therefore, if the information is shown to be authentic and there is no reason to doubt it, then why reject it? quote: why is it of a value? Historic information is always valuable. This is more so the case here, seeing as the Ahadith contain background information on the Holy Quran. It also tells us lots about the life of the Prophet (p) and how he handled the many situations in life in accordance with the religion. This can be inspirational for us. quote: How can you be so sure that there is no doubt when you yourself accept that some of thhe hadiths are not accurate.

Why paint them all under the same brush? If some of the Hadiths are not accurate why reject those that are? The Ahadith are separate narrations narrated from various individuals. There can be several reasons why a narration may not be accurate. It could be that the narrators are unreliable or that they misunderstood. However, I cannot see why we would reject all the other narrations too. It is not like they are all the product of one writer. So, what for? The most decent, sensible thing is to accept the reliable and remove the unreliable. After all, a vast amount of information on historic personalities exists and the historians would not reject all information on these personalities merely because they stumbled upon certain information which they are sceptical about. This defies common sense. quote: I am afraid you are the one interpreting the word and its meaning I have simply left it intact. Ha! But this is the point. By leaving it intact you are actually also interpreting. You are expressing the view that the word was used as a term. By doing so you change the meaning of what was implied. Huh, if we are not allowed to translate the word, why bother translating any of it at all? quote: What do you think God means by the sentence- which hadith other than the Quran are you going believe. This is precisely what I meant. In the above, you have taken one sentence out of the Quran thereby removing it from the context while refusing to translate the word Hadith in order to give the

impression that the Quran was referring to narrations (i.e. the Ahadith) which ironically were only collected and compiled way after the completion of the revelation of the Quran. This, my friend, I see as an example of a gross misinterpretation of a piece of literature. I have already explained this verse as follows under another thread: It (i.e. the verse) actually asks a rhetorical question. After presenting certain signs in the preceding verses it asks: Then in which speech other than Allah and His Ayat will they believe? Surah 45:6 The implication being none. In other words, if they dont listen to the Almighty, to whom then will they listen and who else will be able to reason with these arrogant people? Still, let us look at the context: "Ha-Mim. The revelation of this Book is from Allah, the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. The fact is that there are countless signs in the heavens and the earth for those who believe. And in your own creation and in the animals, whom Allah is scattering (all over the earth), there are signs for all those who affirm faith. And in the differences of the night and the day, and in the provisions that Allah sends down from the heaven, whereby He revives the earth after its death, and in the circulations of the winds, there are many signs for those who use their common sense. These are the revelations of Allah, which We are rehearsing to you in truth. Then what narration is there after Allah and His revelations that they will believe?" Surah Al Jathiyah 45:1-6

I think this is self explanatory. quote: I am not sure why you are so convinced that you are ideas so right and others merely clutching, exactly which text supports your prejudices. Perhaps ou can start a course on how to interpret the literature correctly then no one will ever disagree with your interpretation. Oh, but disagreements will always exist. You are upset but understand that the tone makes the music! If you are going to be as blunt as you were in sharing your thoughts, why should I not return the favour at least once in a while? Sometimes we need a little taste of our own medicine. The point is clear, Rashad Khalifa and his like; interpret the verse as though it was directly addressing the Muslims that came centuries after the Revelation of the Quran. He attempts to makes it look as though the verse refers to the compilation of the Ahadith. By doing so, he ignores a simple rule of literature the background of the revelation. Who was first being addressed? It was those who were rejecting God and His revelation. It says concerning them: Then what narration is there after Allah and His revelations that they will believe? The Muslims were not being addressed by this verse neither do they reject Allah (swt) or His revelations. The Ahadith are merely a compilation of reports on various occasions of the Prophets (pbuh) life. The verse has nothing to do with this. Interestingly, Mr Khalifa himself uses Ahadith when it suits him. Do correct me where you think I have been inaccurate.

perv1
UNITED KINGDOM

Posted - Friday, April 29, 2005 - 11:24 PM

(1)Like I said, it is a source of history. It is about the Prophets (p) life and environment. He is an important figure. Therefore, though it is a source of history, it is more special to us. What is contained in it will be an example for us. A source of history on his life will inevitably have lots of information on how he practiced, preached and understood the religion. Such a thing can be very valuable. Therefore, if the information is shown to be authentic and there is no reason to doubt it, then why reject it? (2)If some of the Hadiths are not accurate why reject those that are? Is there not even a slightest hint of contradiction here? If you can accept something as an integral part of Islam which even you yourself acknowldge has inaccuracies in it then my friend that is up to you. We will all be ultimately responsible for our own actions and beliefs. These are the revelations of Allah, which We are rehearsing to you in truth. Then what narration is there after Allah and His revelations that they will believe?" Surah Al Jathiyah 45:1-6 Ok lets accept your version above. Are you suggesting that we accept hadith books as narration of Allah. Otherwise how do you reconcile the verse quoted by yourself and your beleif in hadith. Oh, but disagreements will always exist. You are upset but understand that the tone makes the music! If you are going to be as blunt as you were in sharing your thoughts, why should I not return the favour at least once in a while? Sometimes we need a little taste of our own medicine. I dont know about you, but i have no

problems with disagreements. What I find astonishing is the lengths that people go to, to invent and clutch unto their own ideas even when it is completely unsupported by the context. Have they forgotten how to interpret a piece of literature? Self rigteousness and personal attacks, no matter how subtle, are often a sign of a difficulty in accepting difference of opinion. which bit of my medicine are you actually returning? I am not sure the relevance of you mentioning Mr khalifa. I assume you are trying to suggest somehow your points have greater merit by simply associating others with Mr khalifa. For you information It is only recently that I have heard of the above and at present my knowledge of his work is very limited to make a comment. I can also only assume that you are implying I am somehow influenced by Mr Khalifa. Ever since I was a teenager, which was few decades ago, I have found the hadith books to be very flawed-which at the time was very painful and difficult to understand. If you have issues with Mr Khalifa I suggest you raise them with his followers. Do correct me where you think I have been inaccurate. Since we seem to disagree with each other so fundamentally it is difficult to point any particular percieved inaccuracies. My friend If the discussion becames a debate for our egos to prove that our prejudices are correct then it serves no purpose other than create unnecessary negative feelings. I fear we are just going to go round in circles with our view points Regards
Hischam khan
UNITED KINGDOM Posted - Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 2:09 AM

Assalam-u-Alaikum,

quote: Is there not even a slightest hint of contradiction here? If you can accept something as an integral part of Islam which even you yourself acknowldge has inaccuracies in it then my friend that is up to you. We will all be ultimately responsible for our own actions and beliefs. I do not believe it to be an "integral part of Islam". quote: Ok lets accept your version above. Are you suggesting that we accept hadith books as narration of Allah. Otherwise how do you reconcile the verse quoted by yourself and your beleif in hadith. As I explained, I dont think that the verse is even connected to what you are saying. It was referring to the direct addressees of the Prophet (pbuh) who were stubbornly and arrogantly rejecting him and the revelations that he recited to them. Here Allah (swt) is asking, who after Allah (swt) will be able to reason with them? That said; the Ahadith are not "narrations of Allah". They are narrations ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh). quote: I am not sure the relevance of you mentioning Mr khalifa. I assume you are trying to suggest somehow your points have greater merit by simply associating others with Mr khalifa. For you information It is only recently that I have heard of the

above and at present my knowledge of his work is very limited to make a comment. I can also only assume that you are implying I am somehow influenced by Mr Khalifa. Ever since I was a teenager, which was few decades ago, I have found the hadith books to be very flawed-which at the time was very painful and difficult to understand. If you have issues with Mr Khalifa I suggest you raise them with his followers. I did say and his likes. Your interpretation of the verse seemed to echo exactly what he says. You know translating every word but refusing to translate the word 'Hadith' to give the impression that it is referring to the Hadith compilations which were compiled centuries afterwards? When we keep the context in mind, I think that we can recognise such an interpretation to be pretty flawed. Imagine that someone were to say that since Allah (swt) refers to His revelation by the word 'Hadith' that therefore the Hadith literature must be part of His revelation. What would you think of that? Still, I suppose you are right. I shouldn't be associating a person with someone that he has not associated himself with. So, please do accept my apology. quote: Since we seem to disagree with each other so fundamentally it is difficult to point any particular percieved inaccuracies. Perhaps we arent even in as big a disagreement as we think? quote: My friend If the discussion becames a

debate for our egos to prove that our prejudices are correct then it serves no purpose other than create unnecessary negative feelings. So let us try and keep it calm and steady Inshallah. regards Edited by: Hischam khan on Saturday, April 30, 2005 2:11 AM
perv1
UNITED KINGDOM Posted - Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 10:14 PM

Perhaps we arent even in as big a disagreement as we think? Agreed. So let us try and keep it calm and steady Inshallah. Allah Bless you and let him the guardian to your learning and you will not go wrong. Salaam