1 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 7 7 8 8 9 9 10 10 11 11 12 12 13 13 14 14 15 15 16 16 17 17 18 18 19 19 20 20 21 21 22 22 23 23 24 25 1B7LUNIC UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK ------------------------------x UNITED STATES, Petitioner, v.

DISTRICT COUNCIL, et al., Respondents. ------------------------------x New York, N.Y. November 7, 20111 11:12 a.m. Before: HON. RICHARD M. BERMAN, District Judge APPEARANCES BEN TORRANCE TARA LaMORTE Assistant United States Attorneys DENNIS WALSH Review Officer MINTZ LEVIN BY: BRIDGET ROHDE SCOTT WEISS Attorney for Michael Bilello (also present) CARY KANE LLP Attorneys for Carpenter's Committee BY: ANDREW M. KATZ McELROY DEUTSCH Attorneys for GCA BY: MARK ROSEN (Continued on next page) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 90 CV 5722 (RMB)

2 1B7LUNIC 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 7 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 APPEARANCES (Cont'd) DeCARLO, CONNOR & SHANLEY Attorneys for District Council BY: BRIAN F. QUINN LATHAM & WATKINS LLP Attorneys for United Brotherhood of Carpenters BY: KENNETH CONBOY NATHANAEL YALE RAYMOND McGUIRE Attorney for Carpenters Industry Benefit Funds ALSO PRESENT: ELIZABETH O'LEARY

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

3 1B7LUNIC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (In open court) THE COURT: So this I think is the date we scheduled the last time for an update as to where things stand. The issues that are typically on the table are elections, delegate and district council, perhaps we can hear about that; bylaws, I don't know if there's much to say about that; the CBA negotiations, probably something to say about that; restructuring perhaps and funds perhaps. But I guess the elections probably we'd start with and see where things are standing with that. REVIEW OFFICER WALSH: Good morning, your Honor. Dennis Walsh, the review officer. I report that we are on schedule for the district council officer elections. We have met the schedule for the local union delegate elections. Each of the local unions has elected delegates who are ready to be installed to consider whatever collective bargaining agreements have been negotiated by the UBC on behalf of the membership. And I understand that there is a draft of the document that describes the labor management corporation, which is going to be presented by counsel to me and to the government and to concerned parties for review. So from my perspective, the collective bargaining process can be put to a vote whenever the supervisor is ready to present those agreements, which I understand include five SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

4 1B7LUNIC major associations. So there is significant progress in that respect. And from my perspective, this has been a very dedicated process and we are ready to install the new government of the District Council of Carpenters on January 11, 2012. THE COURT: Great. Anything with the bylaws, anything to talk about that? REVIEW OFFICER WALSH: Judge, the bylaws are settled. They will be in full force and effect when the new regime and the delegates are installed. THE COURT: So they'll apply in January, so to speak. REVIEW OFFICER WALSH: Yes. Just some particulars on the election, the ballots will be mailed on November 21. We will be holding a debate at the Javits Center at 5 o'clock p.m. on November 16, which is next week, and all members are of course invited to attend that and make up their minds about the in-person presentations of the candidates. We also held the essay component that was described in the election rules, and all of those candidate essays are posted on the district council website in the public section so that any interested person may view them. THE COURT: I guess Mr. Conboy. MR. CONBOY: Good morning, your Honor. Kenneth Conboy of Latham & Watkins for the UBC. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

5 1B7LUNIC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 As Mr. Walsh has just indicated, Judge, we are hopeful that by the close of business today, what the UBC hopes will be the final detail draft of the collective bargaining agreement will be distributed to the five owner associations. This has been the subject of very intense detailing. As your Honor will recall, there have been some MOUs of record that have been signed and, in fact, the delegate body voted to approve those; but we all understood that prior to the submission of detailed CBAs to both the review officer and the government that we were really not going to be in a position to ultimately come to the Court to have the Court's review and response to this program. As your Honor remembers, there are two crucial components in the overall part of the CBA with which the Court is concerned. One is the formulation of the labor management committee, which was first referred to by Judge Haight in the controlling order here. And, indeed, that broad reform, the labor management committee, was in its initial format actually recommended by the UBC to the United States attorney at the very beginning of this trusteeship. So, very much detail has now been developed and on our side decided that this is in fact the appropriate substance for this agreement. I do want to just mention that my colleague Brian Quinn, who is counsel to the district council here on the matter, and my other colleague, Raymond McGuire, have in fact SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

6 1B7LUNIC taken the lead in formulating the necessary detail in the documents that are going to be circulated today. It is our hope that we will have or there may be some additional further reaction to these documents by the contractor associations. It is our hope that the delegate body can in fact be briefed on and then called upon to vote with respect to the CBA drafts as soon as possible, and we are simultaneously sending copies of these papers to the United States attorney and to the review officer. THE COURT: So I think I missed something. You mentioned there were two key components that I'd be concerned about. One was the labor management committee. I don't know that -- I must have missed the second one. MR. CONBOY: I'm sorry. I think I actually omitted to reference it, Judge. I apologize. THE COURT: No problem. MR. CONBOY: The second is of course the anticorruption mechanisms that are hopefully going to be availing in terms of providing the critical protection to the funds, and that being of course the compilation of data generated by scanning devices and ultimately imposing a formal legal record accessible to all as to what hours were worked and what money is owed as of what date. And then, of course, there's going to be the subsequent follow through so that we do not have the very serious derelictions that were exposed when SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

7 1B7LUNIC the U.S. attorney began and ultimately successfully concluded his investigation of the senior district council leadership and, frankly, to a secondary extent, those charged with identifying, recording, and collecting moneys that in many, many cases never found their way into the coffers of the funds. So those two core issues I believe are in reasonably broad and detailed final form, and we are hopeful that we will have quick responses from the contractors and we can then proceed to the delegate body to get their necessary vote. THE COURT: If you had to estimate or guesstimate, what would you see as the timetable? MR. CONBOY: Would you mind, Judge, if I asked Mr. Quinn to give you the estimate? THE COURT: Not at all. MR. CONBOY: Because these gentlemen have been the ones who have really been focused on this. MR. QUINN: Good morning, your Honor. Your Honor, I would be estimating, but the contracts will go out this week. We'll get feedback from the contractor associations hopefully quickly, work on any issues that there may be between them, and if there are no significant issues, then get that wrapped up, then get it to the delegates. I would think with the holiday coming up, probably not until the end of the month or the early part of the following month. THE COURT: What happens, they get it or they -SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

8 1B7LUNIC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. QUINN: Well, hopefully get it to them, it can be explained to them by the administration, and then have a vote. THE COURT: I see. Okay. Restructuring, is there anything? MR. CONBOY: Your Honor, I believe as we indicated last time the restructuring program is concluded. As you know, there were some thoughts about millwrights, and my understanding is that we are not proceeding at this time with respect to the proposed millwright program. And I believe the rest of the program has, with the very critical modification that your Honor heard about last time, i.e., continuing to contain the dock builders operations within the geographical boundaries of New York City, so that obviated any discussion -- remember we had extensive comments about the economic impact of going across the Hudson River. That has been essentially decided against. So I really don't think there is going to be any further issues associated with restructuring at this time. THE COURT: Okay. Is there anything new to talk about about the funds then? MR. McGUIRE: Raymond McGuire for the funds, your Honor, a few things. As you know, the trustees oversee the pension, annuity, training, and welfare funds. And we're constantly monitoring the pension and welfare funds through our investment SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

9 1B7LUNIC adviser, IFS; and with respect to the pension funds, attempting to identify alternative investments with low correlations to the stock market; with respect to the annuity funds, we're always looking for better performing funds to make available for the self-choice exercise by the carpenters participating in the fund. The training fund, we had a significant development. The long-term director of the labor technical college which runs both the apprenticeship program and ongoing journeyman training retired. Martin Daly retired as of the end of this month. And his interim replacement is the current director of the labor management corporation, Elie Spicer, who has been with the carpenters for many, many years as a worker and now an administrator. We will be going out with advertisements and appropriate media to identify and interview prospective permanent replacements for Mr. Daly. With respect to the welfare fund, the trustees continue to struggle to figure out how to deal with escalating medical costs and flat revenues. Technically, the trustees have deadlocked on this issue, but they're continuing to work informally together to figure out how to deal with that issue. That's all we have, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. That's all I really wanted to cover. Did anybody else have any comments first on this side SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

10 1B7LUNIC of the audience? No. Anybody in the audience want to be heard? MR. LEBO: Good morning, your Honor. Bill Lebo, Local 45. Your Honor, the only thing I want to address here is the contract issues. Now, it's my understanding in the bylaws that it will take place -- it will take effect in January, sorry. The delegates, it states in there that the delegates have the -- they have the right to decide how the contracts will be ratified. Now, I know at my local meeting this past October I made a motion that our delegates, whoever was elected -because at the time the elections were just going on -- whoever was finally elected should stand up and let and tell the delegates present at this contract negotiation meeting that they feel or the local feels that the membership should have final ratification of the contracts and they should make that motion. The motion was passed at the local meeting, and it's going to be interesting to see what comes of this because in order to get a true consensus of what the membership wants -- I haven't heard anything today about notifying the members of what the negotiations came down to. We don't know what the final issues are. And, by rights, we should so that we can debate it on the floor and let our delegates know how we feel SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1B7LUNIC about it. Now, the delegates at this point if they were just given the issues wouldn't really know how the membership's true feelings were about it so to get a true consensus would be a ratification by the membership. And like I said, it should be interesting to find out if our delegates do go ahead with that because they do have that right in the bylaws. Thank you, your Honor. MR. CLARKE: Good afternoon, your Honor. Gene Clarke. I'd like to show you what has never been dealt with, the blue card. What it says -- I'm is going to leave this with you when I go. Also, I have no intentions of signing it because I do not adhere to extortion. That's one thing about me. If you're going to steal from me, you better have a gun and you better shoot me before you leave because that's what it's about with me. Now, I want to bring something to your mind. We have a fellow IG, his name is Scott Danderson, who allowed Maurice Leary to get away with misusing the out-of-work list even though he was in charge of it for ten years, okay. Ten years he was in charge of the out-of-work list. Maurice Leary he let go with a thousand dollar fine and he get to keep his pension, everything. And on top of that, Leary went to work for the state as a safety inspector, something, a Class C attendant in the district council of carpenters, so he walked out the door SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

12 1B7LUNIC with no problems. We had another man who went down and protested three years ago, Brian. He was angry, along with 400 people that showed up for the demonstration outside of the council, and he got up on the counter in the council. He was fined $25,000 and thrown out of the union. His crime was not a crime because he refused to sign this card and adhered to extortion and that's exactly what this card represented. This was the unity team, the unity team that put together all this luxurious living, drugs, prostitution, you name it, but they were raising the fine from $250 to 500. The international rules at the time said you cannot raise it more than 250. You cannot charge more than $250 fine. They did it. They went. As a matter of fact, they took a hundred dollars out of my money, last paycheck, last carpenter's check. Now, the carpenters's vacation check is wages. The only thing they're allowed to do is keep the interest from the money that's collected for the vacation fund. And then the check is sent to you because it's a taxable income, all right. That's part. Also, recently I just got this in the mail that we have 81 percent pension, which to me is a joke because I have people that tell me it's about 53. I don't know who printed this up. Also, I called up at the district council and I asked SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

13 1B7LUNIC them about the building. How come there's no real estate? It's Section 6 on assets. They told me, well, we don't know. I said did you sell the building? I would like to know. No. Well, they hung up. Participate in loans, as we know, you can't take loans from a pension fund, but it seems like they did. I see this 1457. So maybe Mr. McGuire could explain to me what this is about. This is a joke. THE COURT: What is it? MR. CLARKE: I'm going to leave this with you also. You can read this. Maybe you have nothing to do some day. You'll get a kick out of it. THE COURT: I'm not sure I quite got what your specific question is about it. MR. CLARKE: I'm going to leave it. THE COURT: Okay. MR. CLARKE: Now, also, a year ago April when I was recuperating from cancer, I went down to the district council and seen this fellow Valentine because the other guy didn't want to see me because I told him, I asked him how come you're not firing people here? These funds are a wreck. I said get these people out of here. He said -- next thing I go see Valentine. I said to Valentine, listen, you got a guy, Forde's cousin, who is shop steward -- Ryan Rabel. Why is he still allowed to stay in this union? He's there as Forde's cousin SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

14 1B7LUNIC and they won't touch him. So, you see, nothing has changed. It's just the same garbage going on. And you have four lawyers here representing -- you know who they're resting? Doug McCarron. That's who they're representing. They're not representing this membership. This membership has no people representing them. What they have is people from California. They got people from here and there. And we got a Judge Conboy who was a loser last time who should have cleaned the mess up but he's back on the payroll for McCarron. So how long can we take this nonsense. Oh, this, you can have this. THE COURT: I'll make them court exhibits for today's conference. MR. CLARKE: The envelope is important where it came from. MR. WELLINGTON: Good morning, Judge. My name is Calyx Wellington, Local 157, ten plus years in the local union. Judge, I come here on behalf of the members at large and with the full mobility crisis we had in the last court date, and I expect you to make a good decision on that where the contracts will continue with or without full mobility. And despite the fact that it will be on probation, it's still a matter of concern to us. So right now I want to say that the problem has arised through vaguely through lack of professionalism on the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

15 1B7LUNIC contracts because of the data that I'm collecting from all over, including international, according to my information, London, England was one of the leading places in construction for the most part of the time in the whole world. New York City has bypassed it. So we are not losing jobs, we are not suffering here. We are just going through a phase of greediness which we call misappropriation of funds from the contractors where they fall short. And because of this, we have a lot of people who are subject to fines in regards to bad construction. But, really, the contract and the idea of the contracts coming to Mr. Conboy giving us the two phase of the recommendation committee by Judge Haight and the anticorruption mechanism, simply I can tell you for fact that this is not a done deal. That will not solve the problems in regards to negotiations. I am a strong advocate for change. But when it comes to security devices, which I clearly can use a hundred percent, the contractor will still be able to manipulate me by sending these guys to work in my absence. So I pray that everything is done well. Thank you, Judge. THE COURT: Anybody else? MR. NEE: Good afternoon, your Honor, Patrick Nee. In regards to the delegates ratifying the contract, the word delegates were briefed on the contracts. I want to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

16 1B7LUNIC hear from somebody that we're going to get a full copy. Each delegate will have in his possession a full copy of each contract, and we'll have a time to read and review these contracts before they're being ratified. I'm worried they're going to try to push through five contracts one session and take-it-or-leave-it kind of thing. And if you can't take the time, you don't get a vote. So I'd like to clarify that each delegate will have a copy of the contracts and they're not going to expect it to get all this done in one night. THE COURT: Somebody could comment on the process. I was trying to get at that before. Mr. Quinn, is that you? MR. QUINN: Well, your Honor, I'll discuss it with the council about how they want to proceed with this. THE COURT: How does it get posted, on the website or? MR. QUINN: The issues raised by Mr. Nee, when I go back today, I'll mention that, how do you expect to get this done. THE COURT: Excuse me. And also a time frame so -- he makes the right point that if you don't get something in advance, you can't intelligently -MR. QUINN: Right. THE COURT: Thanks. Okay, last speaker. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

17 1B7LUNIC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. PASSERO: Good morning, Judge Berman. Joseph Passero, Local 1556. It's an issue for the delegates ratifying the contract. Delegates are sent there to represent the membership. That's what the delegate definition is. They're not to act independently. For the delegates to vote on the prospective collective bargaining agreement, these bargaining agreements should be made available to the membership to review and then the membership tell the delegates how they want it voted, yes or no. This can't be done in one day. This can't be done in two days, because all the locals have meetings at different times. All the delegates of the appropriate local should bring the agreement back to their membership meeting, present it to the meeting, allow the members to review it, and then the members tell the delegates how they want them to vote. So it's going to take a little bit longer than the end of the month. THE COURT: I hear you. Essentially Mr. Nee's points. MR. PASSERO: Yes. THE COURT: I got it. MR. PASSERO: Thank you. THE COURT: You bet. Yeah. MR. WALSH: Good morning, Judge Berman. My name is Bill Walsh, Local 157. Just kind of echoing what was mentioned that the fact SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

18 1B7LUNIC of the matter that we're in unchartered territory here with our elections and the whole process that's being put in front of us, I just don't see the reason why everything is being forced on the membership in such a short amount of time, a short window. It seems -THE COURT: Like what? MR. WALSH: Well, for instance, the elections. We just had delegate elections, and we have a short timetable to get things done. Mr. Walsh -THE COURT: You mean the December elections? MR. WALSH: Yes. And also the delegate election as well, because we were given a small window to get signatures. Mr. Walsh is doing a great job getting rid of the corruption, unscrupulous people, but I believe that we're on an agenda here that was almost pushed down our throats a little bit here because things take time. And, for instance, with the few members that just got up before us, we need to see what's going on here. We know other people have their agendas and what they're trying to get done, but you know what? If you want fair democracy and, you know, you have to give us enough time to read what's going on, to get the signatures that you need to run for office, to perhaps correct, in my case, which I had a bad interview, I had a bad day that day, and it turned out that now my name, Bill Walsh, is like I've been vetoed to return for trustee. And SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

19 1B7LUNIC many members are calling me up to find out if I'm involved with all these bad people that have been down there. And for 25 years I have nothing but a stellar reputation, and I feel that wasn't quite fair that one has a bad day, if I were happen to re-interview -- I know Mr. Walsh has his agenda, but you got to give us some time to move around here and really digest what is going on. This rumor is out there about -- this is kind of addressed, I don't know if I could mention Mr. McGuire's name, but a couple years ago there were a lot of checks that disappeared. A fellow named Mr. Naselli that was taking checks from the district council and cashing them through a New Jersey check cashing place with his girlfriend. He ended up killing her and committing suicide, and this all was under the watchful eye of Stuart Grabois. And this was all posted in the newspapers. This is not a secret. I was just curious does Mr. McGuire know anything about this, what is being done to try to find out about the actual checks and who was in charge of that? And the main point I'm going to make here, your Honor, is there were a lot of people that did the wrong thing, and I don't really see many charges being given to the bad stewards that were out there, the bad companies, and some of the employees that work for the council are getting off scot free. It's almost like crime pays. It's not right. I just don't SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

20 1B7LUNIC see. I know the elections are No. 1 importance for everybody. But you know what, that's a lot of things we have to clean up from the past. THE COURT: When did this Naselli thing happen? MR. WALSH: I believe it was 2007, okay. And it was a lot of money that was lost in the council. And Mr. Clarke brought up some numbers about our benefits funds, how well they're doing now, but two, three years ago they weren't doing well, and I'd like to know where that money came from to replenish everything. According to this Hollow Metal situation -- that's the name of the pension fund. You know what, I'm in 25 years. Maybe I'm ignorant, I never heard of that until I got the letter last week. So I don't know what this Hollow Metal fund is and who did that and where that came from. One last thing, that blue card is still being circulated among the membership and I thought that was supposed to be suspended. THE COURT: The which? MR. WALSH: The blue card. On my job, many members come from New Jersey and they came up to me and showed me the card still, and I wrote letters to the council and didn't really get a response back. And I'm just curious. I thought that process was suspended until we figured out what was going on with that. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

21 1B7LUNIC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Thank you, your Honor. THE COURT: You bet. Mr. Walsh, could you comment on that blue card? I'm not sure I understand that issue. REVIEW OFFICER WALSH: It's been a long-running issue with many of the members. It was a program instituted by the Forde regime which at least in theory sought to compel one to do one's picket duty and that if you did your picket duty, some $500 that was withheld would then be paid to you. There was a demonstration a couple years ago, which was well-attended, which did get out of hand and led to the arrest of one of the members who did jump up on the security desk. He was brought up on charges and, in essence, turned into a poster boy for the authority of the Forde regime. He was convicted, he was heavily fined, and he was expelled from the union. I've always been very sympathetic to Mr. Brennan's plight, and I have told the UBC that I thought it was a situation that they should revisit, perhaps in the general president's office. Mr. Brennan has since filed a lawsuit, which I believe is active here in the Southern District under the LMRDA, and I also let my opinion be known to the UBC that I think that is a lawsuit that should be settled rather than district council moneys being expended going forward. But the program is very controversial. It is very SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

22 1B7LUNIC unpopular amongst a significant percentage of the membership. THE COURT: Yeah. MR. HOLLNESS: Good morning, your Honor. Gauntlett Hollness. I wanted to reiterate something about what Mr. Walsh said about the district council employees. It's almost like whatever they do, seem to be they get away with just a slap on the hand and that's it. I remember back when the out-of-work list rule was changed. It was a ruling by the court where any changes to the bylaws must go through the court. And Mr. Thomason went ahead and changed the out-of-work list rules in order to accommodate his friends, the contractors, to give them that request system. At the time when it happened, it seemed like more corruption more than anything. And at this time now what they're trying to do is implement something what they call full mobility where the companies would have a hundred percent of their guys with just one oversight from one shop steward in regards to how many members are going to be on the job site working. So I don't understand how one person can be overseeing all those people. When the company is telling them to do something, they're not going to go against them. That is their job. That's the bottom line. So how is it you're going to have a system put in SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

23 1B7LUNIC place where it takes away fairness from the general membership, where as it is right now, I'm not working, many members I know are not working, and the minority sector there are many people not working simply because they do not know a lot of contractors, they do not know a lot of foremans, don't know a lot of owners and they're not working because of that. I was just running in the recent election, the delegate election, and the cutoff vote for becoming a delegate to the council was 465. I got 464 votes. And a lot of members came down to support me. They were not able to vote simply because their dues was not paid up because they haven't been working for months on, months off, where the other members are able to work full-time in one job and leave and go to another job and do overtime, no questions asked. I want to know where is the brotherhood in this union where you're going to tell me I'm your brother where you can work 180 grand a year and another member over there working 20, 25 grand. Where is the fairness? And for the company to sit there and say that they want full mobility to have their guys go to work, they know their friends, the one that lives in their neighborhood, the one that lives down the block from them, their brother-in-law. That means a guy like me will never work. That's the bottom line. Just like I'm not working right now. I work five weeks, okay. I work 25 days. Even that out-of-work list is SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

24 1B7LUNIC 25-day rule where you work 25 days, not even enough to pay you benefit for one quarter to take care of your kids. It's not even enough for one quarter to get your medical benefit to pay -- I don't understand. Where is the fairness? Another thing I wanted to say, your Honor -- my head is spinning in a way because I'm so ticked off -- and especially when it comes to this district council employee where they are able to what they will and push whatever agenda the contractors want them to push. What about the membership? The membership has been saying we do not want anything called full mobility. Why is it still an issue? I don't get it. Why is it still an issue? We have to instill fairness so everybody, I'm a due-paying member just like everybody else, and I want to get the fair chance to go out and work just like everybody else. What am I missing here? What am I missing? This is supposed to be equal opportunity. I pay my dues as a member. I get up, I go to work. You're not going to tell me that carpenter over there is better than me. I do work, I do framing, I do whatever there is to do in carpentry. Because I'm not working, is it because I'm not a good carpenter? No. It's because I don't know the right people. There has to be fairness. 50/50 needs to be reinstated just as it was before. Pete Thomas went ahead and changed the rules for what price, I don't know. What was the price for him doing SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

25 1B7LUNIC something like that? He was willing to sacrifice himself in order to give the contractors what they want. They tell me about anticorruption rule. Anticorruption, if there is a will there's a way. If they want to get around whatever rules they put in place, it's almost I say, excuse me, Judge, I don't want to say the word, but when they went ahead and changed those rules, it's probably they decided to hell with the court, but hell is not the word they used. I guarantee you that much. Because these people are getting a slap on the wrist whenever they do anything. It has to be rules put in place. If you change this, point blank, it's going to be five years in jail and that's it. Forget all this wiggle room, you can get around this. Forget all of that. This is becoming like a joke. No wonder why these guys are doing these things, to hell with it, because people do not take these things serious enough. There's so many members out there losing their houses, not being able to take care of their family, and all they're talking about is full mobility because they want their people and friends to go to work and other people stay home. Come on now. THE COURT: Mr. Walsh, I'm not quite understanding how these contracts ultimately get voted on. Maybe you can help me with that. REVIEW OFFICER WALSH: I think the principal point SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

26 1B7LUNIC that Mr. Hollness makes is a very good one and we've touched on this in previous sessions here in court. There's been a tremendous amount of frustration during the period of the supervision that what is essentially a political question has been in the hands of the UBC. The question has to do with whether the union as a political body wants to have a ratio of members who come from the union and work on a job site, and that is what Mr. Hollness is talking about, I believe, when he talks about fundamental fairness and the concept of a brotherhood. There are those in the union who disagree with him, who believe that those who are skilled and are skilled in networking should have the opportunity to present themselves to contractors who can select them and be able to employ whomever they please rather than having a certain percentage forced on them on a job. So I think recognizing that, that was why we talked in some detail at the last conference about the imperative of having the newly elected delegate body take up the question of the parts of the collective bargaining agreement and whether in fact it is the will of the membership to have full mobility or to have a ratio of members who come from the hall. So I think we've restored a measure of that political process to the membership. And Mr. Lebo and others have made the point that SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

27 1B7LUNIC they'd like to see the input directly from the rank and file to the newly elected delegates so that the delegates who do ultimately vote on these propositions and on these CBAs have the feelings directly from the rank and file of what they want the carpenters union to be in New York City. THE COURT: I got most of that. I'm trying to figure out that process though in terms of so the delegate is there obviously as the representative of the membership, right? That's why they're the delegate. REVIEW OFFICER WALSH: Yes. THE COURT: But they make a good point that the membership would also need to see these drafts or be able to discuss these drafts before their delegates vote. And so I'm not -- maybe it's not clear to all of you yet, but it's not clear to me how that process is going to unfold mechanically. REVIEW OFFICER WALSH: As Mr. Quinn said, he was going to talk to the district council people. My recommendation would be that there be full disclosure so that we can have informed debate and there's no question as to whether anything has been forced upon people or inadequately disclosed thus vitiating the decisions the delegates make when they vote. THE COURT: But in the nitty-gritty, how is that going to work? Is there a day and two weeks later there's a vote or there's a date a document is published and available on the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

28 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1B7LUNIC website? You know, that's really what they're talking about. REVIEW OFFICER WALSH: Within the schedule that the UBC has discussed today, I think that would leave enough time -- because I understand some of these CBAs have actually been typed and we're going to get the draft of the labor management document today -- that ought to leave, frankly, at least two weeks where these documents can be posted on the district council website in the members section and people can start the dialogue and the debate about the essential terms and they can communicate to the delegates, which would give them ample time to have that discussion and meet the schedule that Mr. Quinn talked about by having the delegates installed and voting on these agreements by the end of November or the first week of December. THE COURT: Okay. So, Mr. Quinn, that all depends on when the documents are available for public dissemination. MR. QUINN: Yes, your Honor, and I'll bring up these issues that were discussed today with council. THE COURT: Okay. And so could you or Mr. Walsh or both of you send me a letter just indicating what you've agreed as to when the documents will be public and when they'll be posted in relation to when they might be voted upon? MR. QUINN: Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: Great. Anybody have anything else they want to comment on? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

29 1B7LUNIC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 We said the last about three times already. You came Let's go. MR. FRANCO: Thank you very much, your Honor. My name is Dan Franco, member of Local 157. Several weeks ago, actually, the morning of the last court conference, we put together a petition to have full mobility denied for several reasons. As of this time I have over 200 signatures against full mobility. And the reasons why we're against full mobility is because we see it as a way that the contractors are going to have absolute control of the job site, that they're going to be able to tell their workers what to do, and there's not going to be too much recourse from the union side. Some of the reasons why we want to have full mobility denied is the circumvention of the out-of-work list. They pretty much won't use it after they have full mobility. We feel that there's going to be further acceptance of cash payments by some of the members because they'll be pressured if they're going to work, they're going to do what they're told. We feel that there's going to be additional health and safety violations because the contractors are going to have that much more leeway to get away with what they want to get away with. We feel that they're going to enforce production quotas on us, and they're expressly forbidden in our agreements. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 late.

30 1B7LUNIC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 We think there's going to be additional age, race, and sex discrimination. We think there's going to be an increase of hiding of faulty materials and poor and incomplete workmanship. And there are several other reasons that we think it shouldn't be accepted is that when the steward is on the job, he is the eyes and the ears of the union, and if he is going get no assistance or very little assistance from the members because they fear even more for their jobs and we have a cooperating union with contractors or what we call very contractor friendly, we feel that the steward is going to be between a rock and a hard place even more so. We just feel that the full mobility is the wrong thing for our union. Thank you very much. THE COURT: And what happened -- where did you present the petition to? MR. FRANCO: Individual members at my council for the most part, on the job site, and wherever I see another member I show them the petition. THE COURT: Do you want to present it here? MR. FRANCO: If you were to accept it, yes, sir. THE COURT: We'll take it. Is that your only copy? MR. FRANCO: I have copies. THE COURT: We'll make that a court exhibit. MR. FRANCO: Thank you. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300

31 1B7LUNIC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE COURT: All right. So I think that concludes our work for today. When do you all think that another meeting would be helpful? REVIEW OFFICER WALSH: Judge, I expect that the American Arbitration Association will be tabulating the ballots by December 16. So we may want to have the results of the election in hand and schedule a conference very shortly thereafter. THE COURT: That's a Friday. I could do the next week, Tuesday or Wednesday. Why don't we say, if it works for all, Tuesday is the 20th. How about 10 a.m. on the 20th. Great. Thanks very much. Nice to see you all. o0o

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300