FROM: Ostroff Associates

DATE: January 13, 2021

RE: Energy-Intensive and Trade Exposed Industries Advisory Panel

Co-Chairs

• Eric Gertler, President and CEO, Empire State Development

• Keith Hayes, Senior Vice President of Clean Energy Solutions at NYPA

Members of Panel

• Heather Briccetti, President and CEO, The Business Council of NYS

• Tristan Brown, Associate Professor of Energy Resource Economics, SUNY ESF
• Jason Curtis, Vice President and General Manager, Nucor Steel
• Carlos Garcia, Energy Policy Planner, NYC Environmental Justice Alliance
• Leah George VanScott, Vice President of Business Development, Greater Rochester Enterprise
• Doug Grose, President, NY CREATES
• Michael LeMonds, Vice President of Environment, Land and Government Affairs, Lafarge
• Melanie Littlejohn, Vice President and Regional Executive Director, Upstate New York, National
Grid
• Elisa Miller-Out, Managing Partner, Chloe Capital
• Stephen Tucker, President and CEO, Northland Workforce Training Center
• David Waslura, Assitant to the Director, United Steelworkers District 4
• Lourdes Zapata, President and CEO, South Bronx Overall Economic Development Corporation

Members of Working Group

• Dave Work, Senior Director, Contract and Program Operations, NYPA

• Kevin Hansen, Senior Vice President and Head of Public Policy, ESD
• Vincent Ravaschiere, Senior Vice President, Energy and Incentives, ESD
• Mike Morse, Vice President, Industry Development, ESD
• Chris Lalone, Assistant Director, Division of Air Resources, DEC
• Greg Mumby, Climate Policy Analyst, DEC
• Maureen Leddy, Director, Office of Climate Change, DEC
• Tom Lisgen, Empire Fellow, DEC
• Todd Baldyga, Director, Agriculture and Industry, NYSERDA
• Sean Mulderrig, Project Manager, Agriculture and Industry, NYSERDA
• Kara Allen, Senior Advisor, NYSERDA
• Kevin Hannel, Chief, Bureau of Labor Statistics, DOL
• Adam Polmateer, Utility Consumer Assistance Specialist, DPS
Keith Hayes: Our panel has been very sensitive to cost, and our initial strategies have been incentive based,
and would not impose significant new requirements on industries. In addition, energy efficiency
interventions may be our primary approach to emission reduction in the near future, and it’s generally
regarded as the most cost effective emission reduction measure because it reduces energy costs.

Hayes: Our panel has focused on strategies with the most emission reduction with the least impact on the
economy. Our initial sense is that NY will be able to meet goals through energy efficiency modifications
and electrification. Therefore, relying on incentive based programs should be sufficient to meet our goals.

Hayes: To the first question, yes, the panel was thinking about these groups within the working group,
and would factor this perspective into our workforce development strategy. To the second question,
NYSERDA answered that they believe that low carbon fuels would be necessary to achieve deep
decarbonization. However, the specific issue of co-pollutants in green hydrogen is an aspect of use that
continues to merit further study. Our panel noted that we have focused on energy efficiency and
electrification over low carbon fuels, but as we continue to study low carbon fuels, the release of NOx
should be emphasized in any conversation about green hydrogen. DEC answered the third question by
describing their monitoring and verification procedures.
Elisa Miller-Out: Going back to the last slide, diversity has been at the top of our minds during
discussions. We are going to continue to integrate these perspectives into our innovation strategies, and
are looking at areas where women and people of color are designing innovative technologies which can
be incentivized so that we can see a more diverse workforce.

Tristan Brown: Any feedback/guidance on how each strategy will be weighted? Under the CLCPA the
main target is to achieve net zero greenhouse gas emissions, but we cannot achieve them all equally. Is
there any guidance from the CAC on how to weigh them during the policy recommendation process?

Hayes: No guidance at this time.

Phil Vos: RNG is a fuel that is used worldwide and is known as biomethane across the world. Production
in the US has increased over 150% since 2017, driven by transportation markets, and is also being
developed for thermal application for the health industry, etc.

Vos: Headline from this morning’s Guardian.

Vos: Uncombusted methane does more to trap heat in Earth’s atmosphere than carbon dioxide.
Vos: We can convert uncombusted methane into energy. It is represented under the landfills section of
this pie chart. There is a problem with these numbers however, which will be demonstrated on the next
slide.
Vos: The numbers on the previous slide are based on a 100 year timeframe. This slide demonstrates
these numbers on a 20 year timeframe, which indicates that methane is really 29% of NYS GHG
emissions.

Vos: RNG is not a silver bullet, but part of a larger network of strategies that can help achieve lower
emissions.
Vos: These charts show that the majority of emissions come from transportation. This also indicates that
total industrial sector emissions are dominated by process and product use, and onsight combustion.
Vos: Anaerobic digestion takes place naturally at landfills and this picture is an example of a gas
collection system that collects the biogas and methane. Landfills are the largest source of biogas in the
US and there are 25 large landfills in NYS that have gas collection systems such as this one (which is
required under federal law). Landfills still produce a signficant amount of methane due to leakage even
with these systems.
Vos: Artificial digesters (pictured above) do a better job at trapping methane than landfills. It is basically
a large stomach.

Vos: These are examples of different digesters. Dairy farm in Florida (on left), a food waste facility in
Connecticut (upper right), and at the Newtown Creek Wastewater Facility in Brooklyn (bottom right).
Vos: These are combined heat and power (CHP) systems. They use methane in biogas to produce
electricity and also to produce heat in the process.
Vos: Landfills and wastewater facilities cannot use all of the biogas they produce, so they burn off any
surplus. In NYC, 60% of the biogas collected at 14 wastewater facilities is burned off. Many dairy farms
in New York store extra manure in pits or lagoons which become anaerobic enviroments which release
methane into the atmosphere unchecked.
Vos: You can upgrade biogas to renewable natural gas by removing CO2 and other impurities.
Vos: RNG can be net carbon negative, which means producing the fuel prevents more emissions from
being released.
Vos: These are reports that demonstrate the ways to achieve negative carbon emissions.
Vos: There are nearly 160 RNG projects in the US currently and 150 are currently under construction.
Vos: There are two RNG projects in NYS both at landfills. One in Staten Island, one in the Finger Lakes
region. There are five dairy farm projects under construction right now. They are rehabs of old projects,
not new construction, and will be selling their gas to California. There is also construction at the
wastewater facility in Brooklyn. The Brooklyn facility will be adding food waste to increase biogas
production.
Vos: NYS Clean Energy Standard only applies to electricity, is there room for thermal energy? NYS has
supported the construction of anaerobic digesters in the past.
Questions:

Elisa Miller-Out: If RNG were deployed more widely, what would be the main concerns/challenges to it?

Vos: Obstacles include developing capacity and putting in devices at wastewater treatment facilities,
dairy farms and landfills and then getting it into the renewable energy distribution system.
Carlos Garcia: Going back to the RNG potential for NYS. Doesn’t RNG, when combusted, make the same
CO2 as normal natural gas?

Vos: When combusted, instead of lifecycle emmissions, yes. Could have slightly lower amounts of
emissions during combustion, but the lifecycle emissions are considerably lower.

Garcia: While doing a lifecycle emissions study of RNG, it was clear that leakage of methane throughout
the lifecycle is not as competitive as indicated. The American Gas Foundation did a study in 2019 where
they looked at the potential for RNG specifically for the mid-atlantic region, and the whole region could
only supply between 9-15% of NYS’s 2018 natural gas consumption. How do you explain this?

Vos: This presentation is about organic waste not processes like thermal gassification or “new methane”.
That is, creating methane that didn’t exist already. Leakage of methane must be dealt with and
prevented. As far as lifecycle emissions go, numbers were provided by the CA emissions resource board
which is highly recognized. RNG could be a potentially low carbon, or carbon negative solution.

Matt Tomich (President of Energy Vision): We recognize that it’s never going to be a full or direct
replacement of current natural gas demand. But it is an immediate use of the gas we continue to produce
from food and animal waste. The scale of the challenge needs multiple solutions.

Brown: Could you explain what buildout is necessary to establish additional infrastructure when getting
it to the downstream consumer?

Tomich: From our research, it’s critical to utilize existing pipeline infrastructure, and building off of that
so there is not a need to expand on the existing scale/scope. We also want to source from gas that is
biogenic and aboveground.
Michael Mager/Bob Loughney - Multiple Intervenors:

• Happy to see many of the strategies are carefully drawn and that costs are being considered.
• Multiple Interveners is a group of 60 large industrial, commerical, and institutional energy
consumers.
• The Group’s members pay high energy costs to the state and are subject to deccarbonization
procedures, etc.
• The outcome of the CAC will have a major impact on costs and the viability of members of their
group.
• Their group asks to maintain lower energy costs, and implement policies that are as cost
effective as possible.
• CLCPA compliance will be difficult with increased costs. They believe working groups need to
hire an independent consultant to conduct quantitative analysis of the impact of compliance on
NYS businesses. This has not happened yet, and those numbers remain a mystery.
• Energy intensive trade exposed industry has yet to be defined.
• Need to protect manufacturing jobs by preventing leakage of methane as well as protecting
research, engineering and development jobs.

Richard Fennily- Quailpod, LLC.:

• (Written statement read aloud): We have submitted to the Housing and Energy Efficiency Panel
air conditioning and refrigerator data about high levels of energy emissions. Preventative
maitenence of refrigerator and AC, coil cleaning and filter replacement needs to be incentivized
because its an easy fix, and is currently rarely done.

Gavin Landliss:

• One comment of RNG, I support its capture and use, but in some cases, when it needs expensive
development to create, I do not support it. Expanding gas infrastructure slows the transition to
other types of renewable energy.

Sam Lair:

• RNG from organic waste/feedstocks contains biogenic carbon, so carbon that is combusted is
already carbon neutral. This is an important distinction to make because RNG is not adding to
the greenhouse gas polution issues when combusted. This would only happen if RNG is sourced
from something where carbon is stored for a long period of time, like waste from a logging
facility.
Last meeting is March 10th.

CAC is meeting next Tuesday at 3pm.