Camille Paglia Feminism

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Camille Paglia on Rob Ford, Rihanna

and rape culture
by Emma Teitel on Saturday , Nov ember 1 6, 201 3 5:03pm - 285 Comments
VIEW IN CLEAN READING MODE » WHAT IS THIS ?
Camille Paglia was in Toronto this week for the Munk Debate (Be it Resolv ed: Men are Obsolete). The
dissident feminist championed the reign of man alongside British journalist Caitlin Moran.
Opponents Hanna Rosin and Maureen Dowd didn’t laud the obsolescence of men, or lord it ov er any one,
they merely acknowledged it. (Rosin cited stats from her bestseller The End of Men and made the v ery
astute observ ation that men–à la Anthony Weiner–are now as meticulous about personal body hair upkeep
as women.)
Ev ery one was thoughtful and hilarious but it was obv ious they didn’t really disagree. Each woman seemed
to affirm Rosin’s thesis that a changing economy is leav ing working-class men behind. Each woman tried to
work a nuanced argument into the framework of a sensational, facetious debate topic. I had a feeling the
same might be so when I sat down with Paglia. The Glittering Images author and long-time univ ersity
professor had nothing particularly damning to say about her opponents’ perspectiv e, though she did hav e
something to say about Rob Ford.
Do y ou agree with Hanna Rosin’s thesis in The End of Men, that wom en are now the
dom inating sex ?
A: She’s absolutely right about this transition from the old manufacturing economy to a white-
collar economy [and the negativ e consequences this has on men], but I think her book is a bit
unfair to working-class men. I listen to a lot of sports radio—the only place in the world where
y ou can hear working- class v oices—and I feel there’s a disconnect in the way I understand
working-class men and the way they ’re portray ed in The End of Men and Susan Faludi’s Stiffed.
My grandfather worked in a shoe factory —he was an Italian immigrant. My father was the first
to go to college in the family . There’s a directness and a robustness about working-class men–a
v itality and authenticity that is not coming across in these feminist books. The more women
succeed and rise up into positions of power, the more remote they become from actual
masculine energy . I’m concerned as a college teacher about the romantic and sex ual futures of
highly successful career women.
Why ?
A: Women are being told “y ou are future leaders.” Meanwhile, we are more than our jobs. One
reason Sex and the City was such an enormous hit is that it ex pressed something that feminism
won’t admit: we don’t know what we want. We don’t know if we want children or not. My
generation produced the sex ual rev olution and y our generation is stuck figuring out how it’s
going to work. I want y oung women when they ’re 1 4 to start thinking about what they want
ov er the course of their liv es. I think it’s criminal—child abuse—that they ’re not told to do this
[in school]. Right now it’s just sex education and putting condoms on bananas. Girls should be
asked to think about what they want in their liv es when they ’re 50, 60 and 7 0.What’s been
imposed on women is a male model of professional study and achiev ement.
What’s the solution?
A: If colleges and univ ersities are really concerned about women’s rights, then they must
adjust to a far more flex ible structure to allow y oung women students to take leav es of absence
if they want to hav e children early . Schools should say , “y ou can be married and hav e children.
We’ll hav e day care centres for y ou. Y ou can take 1 0 y ears to finish y our degree—husbands,
too.” The presence of married women and men in the classroom would rev olutionize gender
studies. It would bring reality into the classroom.
What are y our thoughts on the phenom enon of “rape culture” as it’s reported in the m edia
and talked about on college cam puses today ?
A: It’s ridiculous. The one place we should be worried about is India. Why American feminists
hav en’t mobilized against gang rapes in India is an absolute outrage. This obsession with rape
[in North America] is neurotic. There are attacks on men also. This priv ileging of the female
v ictim is a distortion. To see the world in terms of rape is absurd. Throughout history there
hav e been atrocities of ev ery kind. Throughout history honourable men don’t rape.
Can we teach m en not to rape, as som e argue?

A: Y ou can try to teach people to make ethical judgments. Telling a rapist not to rape? [Laughs]
A liberal ideology is out there that people are basically good. It’s a bourgeois v ersion of reality
—this idea that the whole world should be like a bourgeois liv ing room and any one who doesn’t
belong, y ou can retrain. No y ou can’t! I was raised in the Italian working-class way , which is
“watch out!” The world is a dangerous place. It’s up to y ou to protect y ourself, not just from
rape, but from any thing. The lack of imagination for criminality amazes me. There are people
who are ev il. The problem here is the inability of women to project themselv es into the minds
of men. Feminists say [proper, mocking tone] “women hav e the right to do whatev er they
want.” Of course we hav e the right to do whatev er we want–to be jogging with earphones on
with our breasts going like this [simulates breasts bouncing]. Y es y ou hav e the right to but it’s
also stupid! I see with the ey es of the criminal. I must hav e a criminal mind.
Are there any worthwhile v oices in fem inism today ?
A: Feminism is dead. The mov ement is absolutely dead. The women’s mov ement tried to
suppress dissident v oices for way too long. There’s no room for dissent. It’s just like Mean
Girls. If they had listened to me they could hav e gotten the ship steered in the right direction.
My wing of feminism—the pro-sex wing—was silenced. I was practically ly nched for endorsing
The Rolling Stones. Susan Faludi is still say ing I’m not a feminist. Who made her pope? Feminist
ideology is like a new religion for a lot of neurotic women. Y ou can’t talk to them about
any thing.
Hav e y ou seen that new lesbian m ov ie, Blue is the Warm est Color?
A: No I hav en’t. But I adored Desert Hearts—starring one of y our fine Canadian actresses. I
think that all mov ies made by lesbians for lesbians hav e been really dreary with no sense of
sty le. Lesbians are boring. It was a lot more interesting when lesbianism was ev il and perv erse.
Now ev ery thing is so accepting and all the heat has gone out. It’s all about Ellen Degeneres and
Portia De Rossi. It’s banal.
What do y ou think the best show on telev ision right now?
A: Real Housew ives! My fav ourite is Housew ives of Orange County, but I watch all of them
[ev ery series within the franchise]. It’s the only thing I watch on TV besides Turner Classic
Mov ies. I feel Real Housew ives captures in a v ery intensified degree, the way women are with
each other. Nev er before has the camera captured this so accurately .
Bey once or Rihanna?
A: Rihanna! I am ev ery where about Rihanna. I am an enormous Rihanna fan. La Republica

contacted me and they wanted me to write a story on Angelina Jolie and I said “I lov e her but
she hasn’t done any thing for y ears. How about Rihanna?” So I’v e written this whole thing about
Rihanna and it’s about to come out. I adore her. She is so sex y . And she’s obv iously bisex ual. I
think she’s inv olv ed with Melissa Forde. They ’re alway s holding hands. I think Pour it up is
truly artistic. I play ed it in my class. It’s a true work of art. Lady Gaga doesn’t ev en know what
art is compared to Rihanna.
Any thoughts on T oronto May or Rob Ford?
A: Once y ou hav e become the centre of a conflict in a complex gov ernmental enterprise y ou
hav e the obligation to resign. Why are all the energies of one of the world’s great cities being
absorbed in the psy chodrama of an adolescent personality ? I think an honourable man would
resign. It’s like a reality show. I think it’s terrible for the city of Toronto and Canada. I’v e heard
some anti-Canadian things [in the States], some mocking things about Canada. I don’t think
people are say ing, ‘oh what a wonderful rollicking place! What a fun place!’ There’s a sense of
‘how is this happening in a major city ’? It seems like chaos, like a reductiv e lowering. It’s v ery
debasing.
T ags: Camille Paglia, feminism

Like 317 Tw eet 152 2
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285 comments 1
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E mily One • 18 days ago

Paglia's still trying to figure out how to make money off feminism I see....however she's still a
failed Phyllis Schlafly.
9 28 • Reply • Share ›
B rainDrainXP EmilyOne • 18 days ago

That's funny, I thought you were a failed Phyllis Schlafly.
E mily One BrainDrainXP • 18 days ago

Well you even advertise that your brain is drained so nobody is surprised at
your 'thoughts'
c riz m EmilyOne • 18 days ago

You're kind of proving her point about Feminism not tolerating dissent.
For some feminists, if you don't subscribe to certain viewpoints or even
attempt to be critical of the “movement” then you’ll get lumped into the
far right, anti-feminist crowd.
Which is ironic because some feminists will claim that not all feminists
are the same and then go on to be dismissive or disparage anyone who
doesn’t agree with them.
E mily One crizm • 18 days ago

BrainDrain isn't a serious part of this discussion....having much the
same attitude on any topic. Disruption.
Gues t crizm • 17 days ago
Dismissive, huh? It's such a rare quality in comment streams...probably
you are right, it's only feminists that get a little heated in discussion.
Must be hormones.
No mo ro fo Guest • 17 days ago

New wave feminists are nothing but misandrists.
Gues t No mo ro fo • 17 days ago

Hey, thanks for letting me know. Do you have a website? I should
probably follow you and learn something about how awful I am.
Debauc herous Donny Guest • 16 days ago

We can tell you that right here.
brook s t y le Debaucherous Donny • 15 days ago

no sense in learning something if it can't be changed.
Deli Guest • 10 days ago

Nice Sarcasm argumentation, I see your the Reddit SRS Breed of
ignorance.
4 • Reply • Share ›
B ulder Guest • 7 days ago

I wiling to bet 5$ that your are Lesbian and unattractive !
K A RMA MRA MGTOW Guest • 7 days ago

google is your best friend...
• Reply • Share ›
Duk eLax No mo ro fo • 10 days ago

Modern Gender-feminism, is not yer mothers equality feminism of 30
years ago.
Xanadu Guest • 3 days ago

I'm an "old" feminist and I love Camille, AND men.
Duk eLax crizm • 10 days ago
Modern US gender-feminism and their perverse Alliances with
American law enforcement are in fact turning hetero-sexual
relationships into legal liabilities for guys. I believe these "Alliances" are
not only perverse...But history will show they are also unconstitutional.
Jay ne Mart in crizm • 5 days ago

That's humorous since BrainDrainXP jumped all over her first. She
deserved EmilyOne's reply.
Marc us 2012 EmilyOne • 10 days ago

Protip: brain drain is when smart people leave a company, causing it to
die.
E mily One Marcus2012 • 10 days ago

It's when smart people leave a country...and s/he hasn't.
Marc us 2012 EmilyOne • 8 days ago

No, it's not on a countrywide basis, like here in the US, you MIGHT be
able to say an entire city (like Detroit) has suffered brain drain, but those
people haven't left the damn country, they've just moved to a different
city.
E mily One Marcus2012 • 8 days ago

'brain drain - The emigration of highly trained or intelligent people from a
country or other place.'
Jay ne Mart in Marcus2012 • 5 days ago

While you may be right that it is now also used in the way you say,
historically it is meant to describe a country losing it's scientists,
computer techs, etc. to another country.
Derek P earc e BrainDrainXP • 16 days ago

Ha! Okay that comeback made me actually laugh out loud :)
S pas moly t ic EmilyOne • 17 days ago

I feel a bit sorry for you so I 'liked' your comment. You owe me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Tom In K ans as EmilyOne • 16 days ago

Emily, I don't get why people here are so hostile to you, especially when you explain
your positions so clearly... except on this. Paglia is less about making money than
pretty much anyone else in academia or feminism. Her history amply bears this out, if
one is looking for actual evidence. She taught in the trenches of a, shall we say, un-
exalted university for years, even though she was a Yale PhD and star student of
Harold Bloom's; all she needed to do was play along and she could have been at the
top of the academic game at an Ivy League department. It's almost by chance that
Sexual Personae took off, except for its quality, which is extraordinarily high (did you
read it?)
The truth of the matter, as you know, is that there are many types of feminists, and
misogynists revel in pretending they are all the same, all shrill harridans. At the same
time, there ARE feminists like Mary Daly (some of whose books are terrific), who
refused to allow men into her college courses, or Andrea Dworkin, who certainly had
'issues' with men and who thought it was dandy to attempt to turn back the First
Amendment and allow women to police what men could read by binarizing things into
"pornography". As Paglia put it so well, when talking about how feminists and the
religious Right agreed on this one issue, that it was "an illuminating alliance of
contemporary Puritans". Bingo.
E mily One Tom In Kansas • 16 days ago

People are hostile to me because I'm plain-spoken and not PC. This is
considered neither Canadian nor female. However I spent some years in
politics, where I had to gladhand, backslap, tread lightly, pretend a lot etc and I
don't need to anymore.....plus I'm 67, so I say what I damnwell please. LOL
As to feminism ...well I was told when I was a kid that I was a suffragette....just
born too late....but I knew it would come again, because all we got the first time
was the vote....and we needed a culture change. And when it did....in the 60s...I
did my bit to help it along.
It has a very simple premise....women are people, women are human

beings....and women should have the same rights under the law, in education
and in life as men do. Without a bunch of silly cultural clutter.
So I promoted anything that made a LEGAL difference....and let everybody else

debate....endlessly....all the cultural beliefs. There are literally thousands of
them....and women have been oppressed for thousands of years so I knew it
would take awhile, and I had other fish to fry. I've agreed with some of it.....and
rolled my eyes at a lot of it ...bearing in mind that we need extremists and the
see more
Tom In K ans as EmilyOne • 15 days ago
Well, we're pretty much 100% eye-to-eye on this. The true goals of
feminism -- AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT PAGLIA SAYS AS WELL --
should be the complete removal of legal strictures that prevent their
advancement. Secondarily, and also what Paglia says, society needs to
come to terms with the simple fact that women will often wish to have
children, an important societal goal that cannot simply be shunted off to
Care Agencies so that women can work on a "level playing field" with
men. Knowing how the legal system needs to intervene to allow this to
happen is tricky. A working mother is going to find it hard to compete
with a single man even in the best of situations.
I'm still wondering, though, why you were so negative on Paglia. Sexual
Personae is an ***astounding*** book, one of the best of the last 50
years, IMHO. It is a grand work of synthesis: Apollonian and Dionysian,
Eastern and Western, "high" and "low" in art. She makes The West...
seamless. And her positions on feminism and many other things only
seem outrageous on first encountering them; they have a lot of data to
back them up.
E mily One Tom In Kansas • 15 days ago

Well I'm glad you enjoy her work....but I can tell you she did the
movement far more harm than good. Made it far more difficult than
need be.
I was glad to leave those years, and those names, behind.

Grandpa Jones EmilyOne • 12 days ago

Mankind literally carried women on its collective back for 80,000 years.
Like Camille said, if women ran the world, we'd all be living grass huts.
Your mainline feminist theory that women were "oppressed" is a
complete joke examined within cultural contexts. The victim-power
movement of modern feminism has been effective at creating a
generation of pseudo victims. As the late Doris Lessing said, "
(feminism) produced great advances for one group of people but
changed nothing else".
You and I will be long gone before the victims of your divisive ideology
really come to terms with the damage done. Today's crop of feminists
are just corporatists whose "strength" relies upon fossil fuels and global
industry for their nonstop indulgences, their political base is all about
securing their own short term self-interests, and they don't care about
geopolitics. Mindless self-indulgent hyper-individualism is the order of
the day. They've created nothing more original than copying a
masculine cultural aspect. The backlash is occuring around the world
masculine cultural aspect. The backlash is occuring around the world
and in the states, rolling back roe v. wade all over, corporations rolling
over democracy everywhere, the climate filling with pollution,
overpopulation (a women's issue if there ever was one) exploding
globally, the environment being strip-mined for their social media and
shopping addictions... and the average woman won't acknowledge
these things or even know about them- that would be unpleasant, and
break up their 24/7 party of self-indulgent good feelings.
E mily One Grandpa Jones • 12 days ago

LOL without women....nothing would exist.
Gues t EmilyOne • 12 days ago

I give feminists credit for backing roe v. wade in the 70s... feminists and
the gigantic proportion of men who supported them. If Roe v. Wade is
getting rolled back I am asking where are the feminists? I am in daily
contact with young feminists who have an ideology of feminism in place
of a rational political philosophy. Ask a feminist what she thinks about
overpopulation, and she'll say "uhhh, wha?" Ask a feminist what she
thinks about Roe v. Wade getting rolled back and she says, "Whaa,
really?" Ask a feminist- that is, if you can pull her away from her social
media device, her doggy, her 80 degree heated apartment, or her
television entertainments.
Best I've achieved with this approach are replies like, "Theres no such
thing as overpopulation"... as for Roe v. Wade, the opposition's
viewpoint is sympathetically viewed... modern feminists find being
"feminine" more appealing than upholding anti-coercion laws,
apparently. "Well, maybe they have a point... shoe gaze... (insert hyper-
sentimental personal story of pregnancy here).... OK... back to the 24/7
personal fulfillment regime... lets get some sushi and forget about
politics its SOOO boring."
E mily One Guest • 12 days ago

Misogynists are closeted gays, grandpa. Time to open the door and
come out.
S t at ler N. W aldorf EmilyOne • 10 days ago

And homophobic bigots have no place in Canadian society
B ulder EmilyOne • 7 days ago

I don't have a Gay bone in my body and I Despise women ! So not all
are like that . There are a lot of women who hate women too .
are like that . There are a lot of women who hate women too .
E mily One Bulder • 7 days ago

Yeah, you're a closeted gay in heavy denial.
Hating half the human race indicates a mental illness

S t at ler N. W aldorf EmilyOne • 7 days ago

Are you suggesting that homosexuality is a mental illness?
E mily One Statler N. Waldorf • 7 days ago

Hating half the human race indicates a mental illness....no matter where
the hate comes from. Religion, child abuse, PTSD or denial and inner
conflict about gayness.
Jay ne Mart in Statler N. Waldorf • 5 days ago

How did you come up with that? She clearly stated two separate
statements and you seem to have combined them. If Bulder despises
women then he hates half the human race. Simple.
John_Marmalade EmilyOne • 12 days ago

True enough, but if we could get rid of a few of these power hungry
loopy biotches, what does exist would run a lot better.
E mily One John_Marmalade • 12 days ago

You're another one that needs to get out of the closet.
John_Marmalade EmilyOne • 12 days ago

Well you know what it's like Emily, ever since Pierre Trudeau croaked
out and left me a bushel of sequins in his will I had to find a way to put
them to good use.
Thanks to that fabulous darling man I make a fortune on the annual

parade.
E mily One John_Marmalade • 12 days ago

LOL no doubt.
I'm a misogynist. I despise most women, I view them as inferior
inasmuch as I hold them to a male standard. I'm not running from
anything. I agree with the spirit, not the literal, quote of the late Norman
Mailer: "women should be kept in cages."
As Paglia herself says in Sexual Personae, and I'm paraphrasing,

women ARE the essential problem of civilization. I think this country
should segregate schools by gender and then see what happens. Get
these crazy b****s away from the children!

Well, you're either gay or crazy. LOL
Probably both.

Even if I was gay AND crazy, it doesn't make me wrong on this subject.
Your contemporaries were nut-jobs, the current crop of corporate sluts
are a travesty and they will not be carrying forward the torch of
civilization... they will are extinguishing it in an orgy of over-
consumption.

LOL if you can seriously [which I doubt] say this stuff about 52% of the
world's population...and the part upon which all life depends.....you are
gay, crazy...and should be locked up.

Demographically, you are right, biologically you are wrong. The Y
chromosome long ago took over the aspect of sexual reproduction. I.e.,
there is no "natural" reproduction without it. So life doesn't depend on
one gender or the other. But since the Y is a much more recent
development phylogenetically, it proves Y took over and is in the driver's
seat as far as reproduction goes. No Y, no species.

LOL You flunked biology. Women can indeed have children without
men. Sorry

Yes but only through technology and Any babies born from the process
would be female and genetically identical to their mother.Any babies
born from the process would be female and genetically identical to their
mother.Any babies born from the process would be female and
genetically identical to their mother.Any babies born from the process
would be female and genetically identical to their mother.Any babies
born from the process would be female and genetically identical to their
mother.
Like an endless copy/paste, get it. Although nature doesn't copy-paste,

it types everything out longhand. Therefore after a few generations the
errors pile up and what you have is a retarded baby. Way to go,
SuperLesbo.

Well errors piled up in you long time ago.
Now then....who do you usually post as?

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Teitel page

Cat egories: Blog Cent ral, Teit el page, Uncat egorized

Camille Paglia on Rob Ford, Rihanna

VIEW IN CLEAN READING MODE » WHAT IS THIS ?

What’s the solution?

Can we teach m en not to rape, as som e argue?

Are there any worthwhile v oices in fem inism today ?

What do y ou think the best show on telev ision right now?

Bey once or Rihanna?

A: Rihanna! I am ev ery where about Rihanna. I am an enormous Rihanna fan. La Republica

Any thoughts on T oronto May or Rob Ford?

T ags: Camille Paglia, feminism

Bless atheists, for they have sinned

Blue is the Warmest Color deals perfectly with falling in love

Join the discussion…

Oldest Community Share Login

E mily One • 18 days ago

B rainDrainXP EmilyOne • 18 days ago

E mily One BrainDrainXP • 18 days ago

c riz m EmilyOne • 18 days ago

E mily One crizm • 18 days ago

No mo ro fo Guest • 17 days ago

Gues t No mo ro fo • 17 days ago

Debauc herous Donny Guest • 16 days ago

brook s t y le Debaucherous Donny • 15 days ago

Deli Guest • 10 days ago

B ulder Guest • 7 days ago

K A RMA MRA MGTOW Guest • 7 days ago

Duk eLax No mo ro fo • 10 days ago

Xanadu Guest • 3 days ago

Jay ne Mart in crizm • 5 days ago

Marc us 2012 EmilyOne • 10 days ago

E mily One Marcus2012 • 10 days ago

Marc us 2012 EmilyOne • 8 days ago

E mily One Marcus2012 • 8 days ago

Jay ne Mart in Marcus2012 • 5 days ago

Derek P earc e BrainDrainXP • 16 days ago

S pas moly t ic EmilyOne • 17 days ago

Tom In K ans as EmilyOne • 16 days ago

E mily One Tom In Kansas • 16 days ago

It has a very simple premise....women are people, women are human

So I promoted anything that made a LEGAL difference....and let everybody else

E mily One Tom In Kansas • 15 days ago

I was glad to leave those years, and those names, behind.

Grandpa Jones EmilyOne • 12 days ago

E mily One Grandpa Jones • 12 days ago

Gues t EmilyOne • 12 days ago

E mily One Guest • 12 days ago

S t at ler N. W aldorf EmilyOne • 10 days ago

B ulder EmilyOne • 7 days ago

E mily One Bulder • 7 days ago

Hating half the human race indicates a mental illness

S t at ler N. W aldorf EmilyOne • 7 days ago

E mily One Statler N. Waldorf • 7 days ago

Jay ne Mart in Statler N. Waldorf • 5 days ago

John_Marmalade EmilyOne • 12 days ago

E mily One John_Marmalade • 12 days ago

John_Marmalade EmilyOne • 12 days ago

Thanks to that fabulous darling man I make a fortune on the annual

E mily One John_Marmalade • 12 days ago

As Paglia herself says in Sexual Personae, and I'm paraphrasing,

E mily One Guest • 12 days ago

Gues t EmilyOne • 12 days ago