Did Honda's CEO Say EVs Make No Sense - Not Exactly - ExtremeTech

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DID HONDA’S CEO SAY EVS MAKE NO SENSE? NOT EXACTLY
Did Honda’s CEO Say EVs Make No Sense? Not Exactly

By Bill Howard (https://www.extremetech.com/author/bhoward) on December 31, 2019 at 9:00 am
19 Comments (https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/303907-did-hondas-ceo-say-evs-make-no-sense-not-
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Honda Content
CEO Takahiro Hachigo says there’s no future for EVs. Or maybe he didn’t. Comments
Hachigo made recently indicate he doesn’t see “a dramatic increase in demand for battery
vehicles.” Much of the confusion comes from analysis / commentary from other media outlets
reacting to a recent interview with Automotive News Europe. Hachigo appears, at worst, to be
honest in noting that demand sucks currently for fully electric vehicles. That honest appraisal
disheartens EV-enthusiast journalists who dislike an executive who isn’t a full-on cheerleader for
battery electric vehicles.
Tesla has shown there’s a market for pure EVs, not just hybrids, not just plug-in hybrids (PHEVs).
Similarly, two decades ago, Toyota showed there’s a market for hybrids that went a mile or two on
2020
battery power, the rest of the time on gasoline (but still managed impressive mpg increases). Their
dominant products sucked the oxygen out of the market for a decade or more.
What Honda CEO Hachiago Really Said

Here’s the key points from an interview (https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/honda-ceo-
expects-hybrids-outshine-evs) of Hachigo with Automotive News Europe editors Jamie Butters and
Hans Greimel, through a translator:
ADVERTISING
/
Q (ANE): Honda wants two-thirds of its global sales to come from electrified vehicles by
2030. What is your road to electrification when demand for hybrids and EVs is still
undeveloped?
A (Hachiago ): I believe hybrid vehicles will play a critical role. The objective is not
electrification, per se, but improving fuel efficiency. And we believe hybrid vehicles are the
way to abide by different environmental regulations.
Q: What about full-electric vehicles?
Sponsored
A: Are thereContent
really customers who truly want them? I’m not so sure because there are lots of
issues regarding infrastructure and hardware. I do not believe there will be a dramatic
increase in demand for battery vehicles, and I believe this situation is true globally. There are
different regulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So it’s a must to
continue R&D. But I don’t believe it will become mainstream anytime soon.
What we hear from Honda’s head guy is what you’d expect to hear from pragmatic automaker: a
Classic Blue as
straightforward a Trending
appraisal Color
of where in
the market is today. He did not, unlike other CEOs, complain
2020
that governments need to underwrite a big charging infrastructure first.
What we hear from some of our fellow editors tracking EVs is disbelief that Honda hasn’t gotten
with the program. From Elektrek (https://electrek.co/2019/12/26/honda-ceo-says-no-dramatic-
increase-in-ev-demand/) (“Honda CEO says ‘There Will Be No Dramatic Increase EV demand’”):
/
The automotive industry is operating on two
completely separate alternative planes of
existence. Readers of this site are familiar with
the overwhelming evidence of EVs
approaching an inflection point, and the last
gasps of internal combustion. Let’s call that
reality. And then there’s Honda’s Takahiro
Hachigo, joined by executives from Toyota
(and others). In their alternative universe, the
inevitability of a pure-electric future is not
proven. Nobody wants them.
Honda EV Plus: first modern EV, 1997-99, 80-100 miles range,
300 built.
… Nearly four decades ago, Honda
introduced the first engine technology to meet US Clean Air Act standards without the need
for a catalytic converter. In 1999, the Honda Insight was the first hybrid. But that’s ancient
history. Today, the company remains fixated on 20-year-old technology rather than
innovating for the new electric age. … At the same time, Hachigo’s latest statements are
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entirely out of step with the times. The imperative of global climate change is too urgent for
minimal compliance and CES eye candy.
And from Jalopnik (“Ghostly Specter Of Honda’s CEO Still Not Convinced Electric Cars Are A
Thing”):
2020
Here comes Honda CEO Takahiro Hachigo, rising from the dead to walk among us in the
year 2019—a year in which Tesla has sold more than 255,000 cars [worldwide]—to inform us
he is still not sure about this whole electric car thing, revealing himself to be not a man but a
ghost of a bygone era.
Honda is also designing a modular electric car platform which they hope to have ready by
2025. Does that count as “anytime soon?” By automaker timelines, probably not, which
means there’s plenty of time for more CEOs to die and rise from the dead before Honda
completes its EV platform for a future it doesn’t think will happen.
/
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2020
One company dominated hybrid sales 20 years ago: Toyota. Now Tesla is doing the same with EVs. Four-fifths of EVs sold in the US are Teslas.
After that, only Chevy, Nissan and BMW sell more than 5,000 EVs year. (Source: Statista)
The EV Market Is Good (For Tesla)

Automakers have lots of rules to follow: crash protection, safety equipment, emissions. Also they
have to make money for shareholders. And stay in business. Right now, Tesla dominates battery-
electric vehicle sales, controlling 80 percent (182,000) of the 228,000 pure EVs sold in 2018 in the
US, which is 1.0 percent of all US sales. What’s left is table scraps. Chevy has 8 percent of the EV
market (0.1 perecent of all vehicles sold), Nissan 6 percent of EVs (0.1 percent of all sales). For
everybody else, it rounds to 0.0 percent unless you go to two decimal places.
Honda sold 948 Clarity BEVs in 2018. That is a small number: one of every 1,500 Hondas sold, one
of every 18,000 cars sold (all brands) in 2018. Clarify is actually three vehicles: a fuel-cell car that
converts hydrogen to electricity, a BEV (the sub-1,000 sales), and a plug-in hybrid. Together they
accounted for 20,000 Clarity sales, but virtually all of them were PHEVs. Honda marketed the
Clarity BEV as a comfortable family car (think Accord with batteries instead of gasoline). But with
an EPA combined-driving range of 89 miles, it was a challenging car to sell. Honda will move into
2020 with the fuel cell and PHEV but not the Clarity EV.
/
Critics scoff at PHEVs as uninteresting for the long term, and they’re probably right. For. The. Long.
Term. But in the US with its greater driving distances than Europe, they make sense. You can drive
to and from work on electricity alone if you remember to recharge when you get home. And then
on weekends you go where you want, mostly on gasoline. Meanwhile, battery technology is
improving at about 20 percent a year, so four to five years from now, a 100-mile Clarity BEV could
be a 200-mile Clarity. (And, okay, a 250-mile Tesla could be a 500-mile Tesla.) So Honda could lay
low until 2025, rejoin the fray then, and not miss a lot of EV sales in the US. In Europe, the
company may face regulatory pressure to act sooner.
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2020
The Honda E is part of a new architecture coming within five years.
Honda’s Roadmap for Electrification

Honda will bring to bring to market an electric city
car in 2020 called the Honda E, in the spring of
2020. At 157 inches, it’s smallish for the US market.
Over the summer Honda told investors and media
it’s developing a dedicated EV platform for midsize
and large sedans and SUVs. The first vehicles will
come to market in 2025. It’s this timeframe that has
some media critics upset with Honda.
Right now in the US Honda has these alternative

vehicles:
Honda e, due in 2021 in Europe – Honda’s first minicar since
2001.
Honda Accord Hybrid, 48 mpg city / 46 mpg highway, this from what measures as a full-size car.
/
Honda Insight third-generation compact hybrid, 48 mpg city / 46 mpg highway
Honda Clarity PHEV, BEV, hydrogen fuel cell through 2019.
Honda CR-V Hybrid, due early 2020, targeting Toyota RAV4.
Honda appears to be intercepting the glidepath toward higher-efficiency, zero-tailpipe-pollution

vehicles. Europe especially is pushing automakers toward cleaner, higher-efficiency vehicles.
Honda will begin selling the retro-look Honda e next year in Europe, with a goal of at least 10,000
units a year, possibly more. The Honda e, a minicar, will allow Honda to meet EU CO2 targets in
2020 and 2021 without paying fines.
While we live on the same planet and breathe the same air (more or less), Europe feels the shock
more when Russian or the Middle East countries restrict access to petroleum – the US can always
“drill, baby, drill” (per Sarah Palin – and Europe is also more concerned about clean air. The US’
concern about fuel consumption and clean air depends a lot on who’s in the White House come
2021. Currently the US supports aggressive petroleum-source development and extraction.
Now Read:
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ja_1410 • 3 months ago • edited

Except the US annual market is 16,000,000 vehicles per year. The Tesla 200,000 is still a drop
in the bucket. Honda CEO is right questioning if there is real demand to justify so many EV
models being in development by all major manufacturers. Those vehicles are sucking billions
of dollars of industry investment. If they end up mostly unsold on dealer lots of if dealers will
refuse to even buy them we might be facing serious recession like we have not seen since
1920's.
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2△ ▽ Content
1 • Reply • Share ›
Peter Belanger > ja_1410 • 3 months ago

I agree. It's sad how in this day, someone with solid industry experience, gets rejected
journalists as a "ghost".
But who are you going to listen to, a well experienced CEO of the most successful auto
company in the world, or just out of diapers, activist/journalist who thinks "oil is bad"
and anyone who isn't in love with electric cars is dead to them?
There are currently a LOT of problems, real and perceived, with the technology right
now. The main one is charging infrastructure, it does not exist. Right now an electric car
2020
is something only a homeowner would do, because almost NO apartment complexes
have charging stations. We will see a big uptick in sales once laws get passed requiring
landlords to install chargers for tenants.
Also, there needs to be a lot more models of electric car. We all ave different taste in
things. Styles that get one person excited, look bland and weak to others, the only
solution is more choice.
We also don't have enough generating capacity for everyone to go electric. The grid will
need some serious upgrades, and wind and solar are NOT going to provide enough on
a continuous, reliable basis. Nuclear power is the only option. Charging a car with
power generated at a coal plant only offsets the emissions to somewhere else. Gas
power is slightly better, but not much. And if the wind isn't blowing, or it's too cloudy or
see more
1△ ▽ 1 • Reply • Share ›
Ezzy Black > Peter Belanger • 3 months ago

You have some good points, but I disagree on the grid.
One of the advantages of plug-in hybrids and pure electrics is that they make
the grid more efficient. Our electrical grid is built for absolute max capacity.
Meaning that we have to build out capacity to meet peak demand.
Plug-in vehicles tend to charge overnight, at minimum demand times. This is

/
actually great for electricity companies as it allows them to use that excess peak
capacity (and sell it to consumers). It's a more efficient use of existing
infrastructure that probably won't require a huge overhaul of the grid.
John blue > ja_1410 • 3 months ago

How do you start anything unless you go from ZERO and you end up somewhere else
that is NOT zero. Iphone sell in first year 2007 - was around 1+ million units and year
2008 was already 10+ million units and everything was still talking about it how stupid is
not to have keyboard on phones while Apple was selling more and more iphones.
When Honda will reach 200K in sales of EV cars Tesla will already be at 2 million.
ja_1410 > John blue • 3 months ago • edited

Or Tesla will be bankrupt since they practically never made profit in its 16 years
of existence and Honda will remain major automaker with positive cash flow.
iPhone is certainly a success story but in Silicon valley 2 of the 3 startups fail.
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History is full of failed and forgotten automakers.
John blue > ja_1410 • 3 months ago

Tesla can easy get a lot of cash whenever they want to. It's not a big deal
at this point. They amount of debt that Tesla have is not that big of a
problem. They dont need to make profit now, or even for next few years,
as long they are growing as they are. What's the point to slow down to
Classic Blue as a make
Trending smallin
Color profit, when you can speed up get to your goal faster.
2020 △ ▽ 1 • Reply • Share ›
Ezzy Black > John blue • 3 months ago
Yeah, it's kind of the new, new, new economy. Amazon rarely shows a
profit either and it's considered one of the healthiest companies around.
These days stockholders are willing to forgo the nice fat dividend check
at the end of the year as long as the price of the stock continues to rise.
I worked for Sprint for 10 years and they made billions in profits each
year. But they weren't gaining market share so they weren't growing.
Management just didn't understand this. Every year they would
"downsize" to be more competitive. They kept making profits, but it
resulted in a workforce that could no longer compete in the market. (I
survived 7 rounds of layoffs in 10 years, but not the 8th.)
These days profits aren't enough or even aren't required at all. It's all
about growth.
△ ▽ • Reply • Share ›
Peter > ja_1410 • 3 months ago

As long as Tesla is the leading car manufacturer in self-driving tech, they
won't go bankrupt.
△ ▽ • Reply • Share › /
• Reply • Share ›
Daniel WhatThe Heck > John blue • 3 months ago

There was nothing preventing the iphone from being practical. Data services for
cell phones already existed, internet already existed.
Try having an entire neighborhood charging their 100kw batteries in their cars at
the same time and see how long the lights stay on.
1△ ▽ • Reply • Share ›
Debbie Fisher > ja_1410 • 3 months ago

Actually you calculations are way off, it would actually be a cup in a bucket not a drop.
△ ▽ 1 • Reply • Share ›
FAQMD1 • 3 months ago

The only folk interested in EVs are Communist / Socialist / Fascist / Progressives / Neo
Liberals who are interested in controlling our lives .... there is a reason why China is in love
with EVs and its not because they believe in freedom.
Sponsored Content
The Honda CEO Takahiro Hachigo is correct ...
havor > FAQMD1 • 3 months ago • edited

I am political far from the left, but i do believe in global warming, and the truth can be
seen all over the globe, drought and weather change records are broken every year,
hell Australia is on fire like it has never before, is it man made, not sure, tho from what i
do understand, there is some indications that it is.
2020 And what if it is, i don't wane be someone that says, sorry to his grand kids, grandpa
B Y P RES E N TAT I ON Ldid
O ADnot
wane believe the scientist when thy ware warning us, just because he did not
wane believe them, as he did not wane change the way of his life.
Tho i also believe that the Honda CEO Takahiro Hachigo is correct, we are just not
ready for it, and i believe (plug-in) hybrid EV's are the short term solution, as you can
tune a generator to charge at peak efficiency getting much better mpg then a normal
engine, and lower emissions.
Imho is putting your head in the sand till its maybe to late, in my book at least not the
smarted solution.
And if we find out later that we ware over reacting, then at least we got less depended
on fossil fuels, and gotten a cleaner environment to live in.
CommonSense > FAQMD1 • 3 months ago

FAQMD1, Always have to resort to political name-calling, too bad you don't have any
"facts" or a valid opinion to contribute.
Ezzy Black > FAQMD1 • 3 months ago

It still amazes me that anything good for the environment has to be opposed by the far
right I just don't get the logic
/
right. I just don t get the logic.
We have just the one spaceship to travel through the universe in. We really should
spend some effort maintaining it.
CommonSense • 3 months ago • edited

BMW's now former Executive Officer, Harald Krueger, expressed similar opinions about EV's
and was perceived as foot-dragging the R&D needed to get EV's to market in a timely manner.
He has left that job and the CEO, Oliver Zipse, is now refocusing the company on better-
performing hybrids and full-on EV's. I interrupted a long sequence of BMW cars with a Honda
Insight a few years ago to take advantage of carpool lanes, cheaper tolls and ~46mpg along
with a 5-speed. It was a lot of fun until the ruthless weight-saving engineering started taking its
toll on reliability.
Regarding Peter Belanger's concern about "enough generating capacity for everyone to go
electric:" Gee, Pete, will everyone go electric next month? There is a lot of overnight capacity,
and the infrastructure has time to upgrade as more EV sales happen.
BTW, my driveway has an EV, a diesel, and 2 gas-powered cars on the side.
△ ▽
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Content
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Peter > CommonSense • 3 months ago • edited

The big transportation re-segmentation battle is yet to come. There's way more new
tech going into this battle than just EVs.
Sure, we'll all be generals in 20 years from now and we'll be saying that we knew it all
along. But we just don't know yet, if it is going to be same business as usual, or maybe
Uber and Waymo are going to be biggest car manufacturers in the world and everyone
else will be as niche, as Swiss mechanical watch-makers of today.
Classic Blue as a Trending
You're referring to Color in as an european, I'm also not very sure how German car
BMW, and
2020 industry will go through this. Germans may have learned from Nokia and have decided
B Y P RES E N TAT I ON Lto make all the opposite decisions as Nokia did, but their whole car industry is still
O AD
somehow restricted to a Nokia mindset (they have cognitive capacity to compete with
Tesla, but are probably not thinking beyond Waymo or Uber).
At the same time the very thing that made German car industry produce technically
superior cars - the no speed limit highways - may turn into a cultural blocker to switch
to EVs (Tesla's battery drains very quickly when driven on German highways, so EVs
are of limited use in those conditions). If they don't overcome this limitation, then they
won't have much of an internal market for top class EVs and their tech advance may
stall.
1△ ▽ • Reply • Share ›
tom&jerry • 3 months ago

Might be another Kodak and Nokia in the making
raven49 • 3 months ago

These discussions are almost as polarized as the US ppolitical landscape.
1. EV's are not going to replace or even impact significantly a planet with one billion plus
vehicles. It will be slow going and I don't expect significant impact for decades.
2. Battery technology which translates to range is progressing. A good ways to go. My wife
/
and I (both retired) could easily replace one car with an EV. We would "need" a gas car on the
order of 10 days every three months or more.
3. When you see the negatives from autonomous vehicle developments, the individuals ignore
the requirements which need to be met to insure security and safety. The infrastructure which
might make the transition move a bit quicker has to be in place when it is require and that
requires a congress that is functional.
4. Accept that development has requirements in line with aviation requirements. Before
sending out three liners, talk to someone who actually understands the development process (
no 737 comments needed).
Rob Radina • 3 months ago • edited

Balderdash. People absolutely want EV cars but unless/until an incredible tech breakthrough
occurs in battery/charging tech, the shift will be slow until its easy to charge them everywhere.
If the cutover is too fat lines at charging stations would exceed the gas station lines seen in the
oil crisis of the early 1970s.
△ ▽ 1 • Reply • Share ›
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