Transformer Connection Selection

Ref. to the figure attached, is there any specific reason of Y-Y connection of
T3 , i mean can we connect it Y-Delta Just like T1. Specific Reasons please

Expert Discussions
Arun Paranjape As the harmonics are filter by delta and phase displacement
by 30 degree T3 is transmission transformer if you select the transformer
like T1 means again you are shifting phase which is not required. At
distribution level again primary connected to delta and secondary to star
means at distribution level no phase displacement reference to generation
level. Simply at generation point i.e. T1and T2 vector group is YD1, T3 is
YY0 and at distribution vector group is Dy11.

Robert Beltz T3 will create a problem with ground fault protection problem at
6.3kv. The low impedance zero sequence in T3 will cause undesired tripping
and the Y Y is just begging for power quality issues.
SEKHAR BHATTACHARYA On the 6.3 KV side the neutral is non effectively earthed
and so T3 is selected with Y/y configuration-as T2 is of Delta /Y configuration-but in
such cases there is a tendency of 3rd harmonics generation and ideally there should
have been also a Delta connected tertiary winding -loaded/unloaded -for 3rd
harmonic suppression for transformers greater than 100MVA.

Halim Bensmaia Transformer connections (selection) are very important for

reasons stated above in this discussion but also have an important impact on
insulation coordination (overvoltage), keeping system(s) effectively
grounded, GF protection, and harmonics and Ferro resonance.

Rodney Hughes Vector groupings and angle of those groupings is critical to

keep things "in phase". Then we can start considering earthing and
harmonics and sequence components, and insulation coordination and Ferro
resonance....
The 220 kv has a series of
220 kV -----Yd -----Dy----6.3 kV
The 132 kV has
132 kV---------Yy---------6.3 kV
We don't know what angles are involved but I am guessing that the 132 kV
and 6.3 kV are "co-phased" i.e. it is a Yy0 transformer.
The other two TF vector angles could be anything and not necessarily
inverse i.e. Yd1 -----Dy11 or could be Yd11 -----Dy11 or .....
If the 220 kV and the 132 kV are two TOTALLY independent grids, you could
change the Yy to some other arrangement.
But if somewhere further upstream there is another TF which joins the 220
kV directly to the 132 kV, then the choice of vector grouping is constrained
to match that and maintain proper synchronism of the vectors provided by
the 20 / 6.3 kV and the 132/6.3 kV TFs

Rok Leskovec What is the angle between 220kV system and 132kV system. I
guess it is zero. In addition to provide grounding on your 6,3kV system, you
also need to have zero angle between booth power supplies, so you can
perform fast transfer from one source to another.

Rodney Hughes Imran Ali we are waiting for some more info from you ....
Q1 What is full vector grouping of T1? Yd1 or Yd11?
Q2 What is grouping of T2? Dy1 or Dy11?
Q3 Is the 220 kV grid in phase with the 132 kV grid?
Q4 Is the 220 kV grid connected by another TF directly or indirectly
somewhere else in the system to the 132 kV?
Halim Bensmaia Rodney , The most common connection is yd1 for T1.
However yd11 is also encountered. The most common connection for T2 are
Dy1 or Dy11. Based on IEEEC57.12 for yd or dy transformers, the Low
voltage shall lag the High voltage by 30 degrees. The connection yD1 for T1
transformer is in agreement with this standard and yd11 for step down does
not. However , a step down transformer dy1 ( T2) with phase sequences
reverse on both side is equivalent to dy11. The IEC does not have this
restriction.
If T1 is yd1 and T2 is dy11 the medium voltage will have zero phase shift
compare with the HV. Since systems are momentary parallel for transfer
from T2 and T3, so both must be in phase. Also both HV system must
produce zero phase displacement. This is why Y-Y connection is used.
Sometimes a tertiary winding is also used for T3.

Halim Bensmaia Transformers have a +/-30 degree phase shift but there are
still some different cases. Digital relays can compensate for the phase shift.
Also when the overall differential relaying includes both the T1 and T2, the
phase relationship of the transformers winding must be correctly defined in
the settings. Your question Q4 (as well as others) for transformer connection
at HV are important since 220 kV and 132 kV must produce zero phase
displacement. However, it may not always be the case.

Halim Bensmaia For transfer you can have a large phase difference between
sources and it may not be possible to parallel them and perform a FAST
transfer. However, other transfer method is possible in this case. So we
should never guess there is a zero phase shift. We need also to make a
difference between routine transfer, made when the generating unit is
started up or shut down; and the emergency transfer after a fault.

K K. MURTY This SLD shows the details of general standard arrangement as

any other Thermal Generator.
1)T1 is Step up GT, which is connected to the EHV network of 220kV.
2)T2 is a Unit Auxiliary Transformer (UAT).
3)T3 is the Station Auxiliary Transformer connected to 132 kV supply. It is
used during black start of a Gen.
4)Once the Gen is put on bars the loads of unit auxiliaries are transferred on
to the UAT- T2 from T3 by synchronizing T2 &T3 on the 6.3 bus.
5)Neutral of all Y connected Transformer windings have to be Solidly
earthed.
6)Vector group of all the transformers have to be appropriately selected for
their function.

K K. MURTY in continuation to my previous post:

The SLD does not indicate the vector Group of T1,T2 &T3, they should be
T1-YNd1, T2-Dyn11 and T3-YNyn0 respectively. There will not be any phase
shift between 132kV and 220kV system if they are from the same
substation/grid network as almost all the grid Transformers are Auto-
transformers having vector group as YNa0d11.

Imran Ali Finally Rodney Hughes here are the answers to your questions in
same sequence as asked:
1. T1 vector group Yd11
2. T2 vector group Dy1
3. 220kV and 132 are in phase as there is installed a fast transfer device
between these two supplies. In the case GCB is open and auxiliary loads are
being fed by 220kV line, if the phase angle not same fast transfer device
may not work as it needs that angle difference between the two supplies
must not be > 20 degree for switch over.
4. 220kV feeds somewhere in 220 grid station and 132kV is not linked
directly to the 220kV system. However indirectly it is connected because
Grid is common.
Hope provided the information

SEKHAR BHATTACHARYA Since T2 is Delta/Y-with neutral probably grounded by

NGR/NGT ,so also T3 is also selected Y/Y with MV side neutral grounded by
NGR/NGT.
EHV side generally all trafos above 66KV and above are Y connected as EHV neutral
is generally Solidly grounded, cost plays a major role along with protection
requirements and fault clearance times .

Halim Bensmaia Mr Murty vector groups (standard) or Imran Ali vector

groups...Both vector groups are correct and selection depends on grid
requirements (HV). So what are the concerns? yd1 for T1 or yd11 and Dy11
or Dy1 for T2 ? 220 kV and 132 kV must produce zero phase displacement
for fast transfer.

Imran Ali Mr Halim.

For fast transfer device to be ready for switching, this condition is set by the
designer.
(sorry this is 30 not 20) Slava Gartstein
SEKHAR BHATTACHARYA For FBt applications it is best
1.Make before break.
2.if you break and then make then out of ph switching should be lesser than
30deg to avoid equipment damage and high starting current.

Halim Bensmaia Now may be it is good time to say: " I don't like to engineer based
on guesses of what may or may not be the reality "
For large power generating plant /emergency transfer scheme, we need to go back
to Imran and ask him to provide further information from his designer to clarify
"fast transfer" and how a "30 degrees" was selected for the generating plant.

Rodney Hughes Hi Imran Ali

Apart from the fast transfer queries as perhaps tangential to your original
query, if the 220 kV and the 132 kV are truly in phase, then you CANNOT
connect T3 as Yy0
T1 is Yd11 followed by T2 as Dy1 so the overall vector arrangement is the
220 kV and the 6.3 kV are in phase ... as is the 132 kV
In other words the 220/20 kV Yd11 followed by 20/6.3 kV Dy1 is equivalent
to 220/6.3 kV Yy0
Hence as 200 kV and 132 kV are also in phase, T3 must retain no phase
angle displacement so Yy0.

Slava Gartstein Fast transfer is not make before break.

Possible option is make and break simultaneously.
Next option is 1-st sequence coincidence.
Anyway: delta Phi, , delta U and delta Fr between new source and motor bus
voltages are set in another way, then standard synchro check setting.

Halim Bensmaia Slava, is there anything wrong with existing phase grouping
? yd1 or yd11 (used) for T1 and Dy11 or Dy1 (used) for T2 ? 220 kV and
132 kV must produce zero phase displacement. Both HV system must
produce zero phase displacement. Some confusion do exist between IEC,
IEEE and other stds.
We are also asking about 30 degrees or larger phase difference between the
two sources to allow fast transfer schemes. Standard synchro check setting
will not work but very fast dropout (less than 1 cycle) is required.