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02-11-2016, 10:55 #46

Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

delmarrey
Senior Cruiser
By request I was asked to post my build of a hard dodger on my Choate 40.

Although, its not a fully covered "hard" dodger, due to, I still wanted access from above
the gangway for lifting motors or such from the solon. So, its a soft dodger from the
windshield up & over to the bimini.

Originally the boat was a racer and had no dodger at all. So after rebuilding/modifying
the cockpit I went with a snap on soft dodger for about three years. Once while out on a
rough day the boat took a good size wave over the bow and I thought the snap-on
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Blaine, WA was going to come off. It did pop a few snaps loose. That's when I decided on a hard
Boat: Boatless Now dodger. And after the windward trip up from San Diego to the Salish Sea, I'm glad I did!
Posts: 10,860
Images: 122

This is all on my blog (below) as well. And I will post several posts so as not to get lost
in the pictures.
The first is the dash with the soft dodger removed.
The second is with the soft dodger.
Third the finished project.
I will continue on in the next posts with the actual build.

And BTW this boat has painted surfaces over fiberglass. So there is no messing up any
gelcoat. If one were to go this route, it would be better to pre-fab and then mount to the
deck with thru bolts and backing plates. Or, put down a canvas under the project until its
done. Then remove and reattach w/o the canvas when finished.

On to post 2............
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02-11-2016, 11:11 #47

Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

delmarrey
Senior Cruiser
First thing I had to do was strip down the surface for bonding. I use epoxy for
everything.
I laid down some forms for the base with epoxy paste and screws.

Next I started the uprights using two layers of 3/8" marine plywood. Two reasons for
3/8". One, it radius bends easier. Two, I could do the window step/undercut w/o routing.
The corner pieces were solid mahogany with a step milled in the edge for an overlap of
the ply. VENDOR SPOTLIGHT
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Blaine, WA Also, I filled in sharp corners to a radius and added gussets where possible. Post the Worst "For Sale" Picture...
Boat: Boatless Now
Posts: 10,860 On to next post................ MANTUS GIVEAWAY ends Nov 20th |...
Images: 122
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Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
The measure of a man is how he navigates to a proper shore in the mist of a storm!

02-11-2016, 11:27 #48

Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

Bill Creadon
Registered User
Steady Hand,

I build hard dodgers and hard biminis from 1/2" thick Seaboard (Starboard). You
may want to check out www.cruisinhardtops.com . We try to utilize the soft
dodger frame and design (form) the new top to fit it. I work with Canvas
Join Date: Jun 2016 Creations in Annapolis, Maryland. They have produced the Wavestopper for years
Location: Reading, PA in fiberglass and now utilize the Seaboard tops. We finish our dodgers with .080
Boat: Hunter 456 -46 thick hard acrylic material that has a 15 year UV life. It is bonded to the fabric
Posts: 27 material as it can't be sewn. We use keder track attachment for panels and
connectors where suitable. Our goal is to produce a long lasting, attractive top
that fits with the aesthetics of the boat and the owners needs. Feel free to
contact me for more information.
Bill Creadon
Attached Thumbnails

02-11-2016, 11:35 #49

Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

delmarrey
Senior Cruiser
Now for the ply work.
The first layer of ply was temporary and only screwed into place, butted up to the
mahogany corners, which still had hard corners, to be faired to a radius after all
glued in place.

On the inside were more uprights and a cross brace to hold the radius of the
upper portion. Which also made a good place to add a couple hand holds.

Then came the glueing and screwing all pieces in place. The outer ply, window
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Blaine, WA holes, were larger to create the step for the windows to set in place, and also to
Boat: Boatless Now set in the under cut of the mahogany corners. Next was to fair in the sharp
Posts: 10,860 corners and mismatches of edges. All gaps and corners were filled to flush or a
Images: 122 radius.
Attached Thumbnails

__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful!
........
The measure of a man is how he navigates to a proper shore in the mist of a
storm!

02-11-2016, 11:40 #50

Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

wrwakefield
Registered User
Thank you for your efforts initiating and curating this worthwhile topic, Steady.

I have also been gathering DIY ideas to replace our current canvas dodger and
bimini with hard tops/soft sides, and will add a link to this thread so others won't
miss it.

Well done, and thanks again.

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Still enamored of Cheers! Bill
higher latitudes; exploring __________________
Southcentral and Southeast SV Denali Rose
Alaska— and British Columbia
— for now...
Boat: Nauticat 43
Short on opinions; focused on research, facts & experience [yours and ours...]
Posts: 1,113

02-11-2016, 12:03 #51

Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

Steadman Uhlich
Marine Service Provider
DELMARREY,

Thanks for taking the time to add your photos and captions and advice. As I
mentioned earlier in this thread, I viewed your DIY Dodger on your blog and was
impressed by what you built, your clear descriptions of the build process, and the
final result. I also encourage everyone to visit your blog to see more DIY projects
that upgraded your boat (which I like). Well done!

And your post above prompts me to add another:

Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,032 Hard Dodger Design Principle

"Consider whether your Hard Dodger should be a permanent installation,

or a semi-permanent installation that could be removed easily later if
desired."

_____________

My POV:
If I were adding a Hard Dodger to my future boat, I like the idea of through bolts
with some ability to remove the dodger IF at a future point one wants to provide
that as an option to potential buyers. In other words, retaining the ability to tell
the future buyers that the Hard Dodger COULD be easily removed if desired. Sort
of like a removable hard top on a roadster car. I would like that flexibility on most
boats, but of course can foresee exceptions (metal boats, new builds, etc.).

02-11-2016, 12:04 #52

Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

delmarrey
Senior Cruiser
Now the fun part! It all had to be sanded and faired in.
I also put in an undercut around the outer edges for the soft dodger to attach, so
when a wave hit, that the water would pass over the canvas rather then under.

Then came the FG work. I use 1/2 oz FG for the small sharp corners, like around
the windows and undercuts. 3 layers was good for me. The rest was 2 layers of 6
oz FG, inside and out.

Join Date: Mar 2003

Now, the sanding for a finish coat of epoxy, and a mild sanding for paint. This
Location: Blaine, WA was the hardest part for me to get into the inside corners. Especially the fairing
Boat: Boatless Now
Posts: 10,860 parts. Gett'n old!
Images: 122

I drilled only holes in the bottom for all the halyards and sheet lines. The hole
cores (plywood) were sealed with epoxy and slightly oversize for misalignment.
This keeps out a lot of the water. Inside I have brushes to stop any fast water
from shooting in. As well there are drain holes on the sides to let out any water
that does get in. The system worked very well on my trip from San Diego North.
Some of the waves went right over the top of the dodger and bimini.
Attached Thumbnails

__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful!
........
The measure of a man is how he navigates to a proper shore in the mist of a
storm!

02-11-2016, 12:18 #53

Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

Dougtiff
Registered User
I made a hard dodger year's ago by converting the soft dodger using the S.S.
frame and attaching a 4x8 sheet of aluminum with rivet's after making a pattern
with thin plywood and laying it down on the metal and marking it out, cutting
and attaching, it was very strong, cheap and easy to do.

Join Date: Jul 2015

Location: San Rafael, Ca.
Boat: Gaff rigged
Ketch[Spray]37' on deck
Posts: 298

02-11-2016, 12:21 #54

Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

Steadman Uhlich
Marine Service Provider Quote:

Originally Posted by wrwakefield

Thank you for your efforts initiating and curating this worthwhile topic,
Steady.

I have also been gathering DIY ideas to replace our current canvas
dodger and bimini with hard tops/soft sides, and will add a link to this
thread so others won't miss it.

Join Date: Jul 2014 Well done, and thanks again.

Posts: 6,032
Cheers! Bill

Thanks Bill.

I just took a brief look at your linked page and like what I see. I will have to read
more when I have more time (pressed right now). I also see you linked this
thread as a resource too. Cool! I am glad find this topic helpful, and I am sure
others will learn something by visiting your page and site and reading what you
have there too.

02-11-2016, 12:23 #55

Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

Steadman Uhlich
Marine Service Provider Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougtiff

I made a hard dodger year's ago by converting the soft dodger using the
S.S. frame and attaching a 4x8 sheet of aluminum with rivet's after
making a pattern with thin plywood and laying it down on the metal and
marking it out, cutting and attaching, it was very strong, cheap and easy
to do.

Join Date: Jul 2014 A post like that begs to have photos.
Posts: 6,032
I would like to see it. If you have some images, please post them.

02-11-2016, 12:32 #56

Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

Steadman Uhlich
Marine Service Provider Quote:

Originally Posted by pcmm

For me the Choice of a hard dodger is about economics. A soft dodger is
easier to make look pretty if you find the right canvas worker, But if
you're starting from scratch, man is a soft dodger expensive!! On my
boat the dodger would be almost 9ft wide and the quotes I've got so far
at up past $3k! With plywood, glass and plexi I've calculated that my
hard dodger will cost me under $1500 CAD to build once!

Join Date: Jul 2014 I've been working on my design on and off all summer and by chance
Posts: 6,032 ran across the Storm petrel blog. It turns out I have already
incorporated most of his ideas into my design. My dodger will only be
sitting headroom as I want it to enhance the look. For me I need to be
able to see OVER the dodger on a normal day so that means it will be
low. yes a bit of a head banger if you're not careful.

Thanks for adding your comment.

I think that is a valid point. And leads to another point added to my growing list
(I will post later in this thread) of Dodger Design Principles.

_______________

"Dodger Design Principle"

The total cost of having a new Soft Dodger (frame and canvas) built
compared to a Hard Dodger (kit or custom or DIY) is something to
consider, along with the cost of long term use (e.g. Additional costs for
replacing canvas over time).

_______________

IF one is inclined towards a dodger and has a preference for a HARD dodger
solution, it could be or may not be much more expensive than a new build
canvas (soft) dodger.

I don't have the personal experience costing that so I hope others will add
some comments on that if possible. HINT.

Since most of the boats I look at for myself have already got a soft dodger or
hard dodger in place, I have not yet investigated the costs of a new build of a
canvas dodger (frame and canvas) or replacement canvas either. I think that
might be a good topic too.

02-11-2016, 12:35 #57

Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

delmarrey
Senior Cruiser
And the last bit, painting and windows.

I used a marine blue to match the bimini. and gave it a couple coats.

The windows, I used 3/8" polycarbonate/Lexon, which 3/8" was a error on my

part. It would not bend to the radius of the dodger even when I tried having it
rolled in a sheetmetal shop. It would just spring back to being flat again. So as
not to waste $300 worth of material I just added corner pieces of SS plate to
hold the corners in place. The next round/replacements I'll use 1/4". After being
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Blaine, WA out on the open seas I found 1/4" would have been just fine. And I may not
Boat: Boatless Now need the SS corners.
Posts: 10,860
Images: 122
The windows were sealed on the inside with butyl tape, and then sealed around
the outside with black poly-sealer for plastic. After 3 years its held up well,
except the butyl has squeezed out into the inside, causing a slight mess around
the edges. The next round, I'll just use the self adhesive rubber window/door
tape. It would be good enough with the sealer around the outside.

From the hard dodger up I went with canvas, which snaps on into the undercut
around the outer edges. At the top is a soft rubber insert that seals the water
out, very well I found, coming up from SD.

I had to modify the SS braces slightly and then had a new soft dodger built to
match up to the rest of the bimini. Its been three years now and its worked out
great, other then some think I built it too high. But I like the head room!
Attached Thumbnails

__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful!
........
The measure of a man is how he navigates to a proper shore in the mist of a
storm!

02-11-2016, 13:01 #58

Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

Paul L
Senior Cruiser
Here's the hard-dodger that was added to the Outbound 46s after 15 years. One
thing that I really dislike about add on hard dodgers is how clumsy and ugly they
often look. This one fits in decently to the ships lines.
This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized
Join Date: Jul 2005 %1%2.
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 6,397

__________________
Paul

02-11-2016, 13:07 #59

Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

Steadman Uhlich
Marine Service Provider Quote:

Originally Posted by sailorcherry

Attachment 134664Attachment 134665
Just add a bimini that connects to the hard dodger. This is almost done.
Finishing around the plastic edges needs to be sorted out and the pvc
pipes to test out the bimini need to become stainless.

Hi SAILORCHERRY,
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,032 Thanks for posting that dodger too. I missed seeing it earlier.

That design is one that interests me because it looks like a very "clear view" type
of dodger that allows good visibility through it I also like the curves or shape.

02-11-2016, 13:12 #60

Re: Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

Paul L
Senior Cruiser
Hard dodger being built in South Africa for our friends Wauquiez 38
This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized
%1%2.

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 6,397

Blog story on it here

https://sageonsail.com/2016/04/29/dinghy-suspense/
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