LAURA STASSI

I’m Laura Stassi, and this is Dating While Gray, the grownups guide to love, sex and
relationships. On this episode, the pivotal moments that lead to a decision to pursue love. I
heard from a woman who told me about the time she was living in Paris and bought all the
fixings for a romantic Valentine's meal that she prepared and ate by herself. At first, she
thought maybe it was kind of pathetic. Then again, no expectations, no disappointments,
she wrote, just me, myself and I and all three of us like it that way. I think it's admirable,
maybe even brave that this uncoupled listener wasn't hiding out on the most romantic day
on the calendar in one of the most romantic cities in the world. Clearly she's gotten
comfortable with embracing her single life.

But you know what? I sometimes think I've gotten too comfortable in my single life and
that's why I'm not making any effort to recouple. A comfortable life means no discomfort.
And without discomfort, there's no motivation to change. We all know change can be hard.
And change can be stressful, even good change like landing a great new job, moving to a
fabulous neighborhood, even taking a vacation you've been looking forward to for weeks.
All of that takes work. I began to think of personal change as more of a process when I
heard the saying "change is hard in the beginning, messy in the middle and glorious in the
end." But the thing that sparks the change? That can be instant, like flipping a light switch
and poof from dark to light. So I haven't encountered that moment where I've stepped out
of my single life comfort zone to declare "yes! Now it's time to pursue love."

But Eva Marie has. She's in her mid-50's, and she's never been married, even though
she's had serious relationships. She just assumed she'd get married one day because
doesn't everybody? Then a few years ago, Eva Marie lost her job and both of her parents
and she struggled for a while. She's much better now. And it was after she got back on her
feet that she had one of those light switch moments that motivated her to pursue love.

EVA MARIE
Where I grew up in Pennsylvania is very, let's say, marriage centric. And especially, even
in college, I'd say within the first year or two of graduating, it was wedding after wedding
after wedding. And yeah, I did just naturally assume that would be me at some point. And
after college moved to D.C. and was in D.C. for about 24 years and, you know, had my
career here in journalism. And then in 2010 moved back to Pennsylvania to take care of
my father. Mom had died in 2010 and then dad had a heart attack not too long after she
passed. The doctors did not want him to live alone anymore. And I was at a point where I
was disgusted with D.C. and.

LAURA STASSI
Disgusted?

EVA MARIE
I had been laid off twice in three years. This was around the time of the Great Recession
and just decided, what am I doing here? Six months later, my dad died.

LAURA STASSI
Oh.

EVA MARIE
I started to struggle big time financially, which also resulted, y'know, in some emotional
struggles.

LAURA STASSI
Sure.
EVA MARIE
Some health struggles, all kinds of things. I, you know, I figured that if I were to date
anybody it would just kind of happen organically, but it didn't.

LAURA STASSI
You had moved to Pennsylvania and your dad died six months later, but you stayed there
for a while.

EVA MARIE
I did. And it was largely because I had just moved and I thought, you know, I did this big
upheaval of my life. I didn't feel like doing another big upheaval of my life six months later.
And, and honestly, there was a part of me that was really glad to be out of D.C.

LAURA STASSI
Yes.

EVA MARIE
I remember a friend of mine asking me, you know, what would it take to get you to come
back here? And I said, the job of a lifetime. That or love.

LAURA STASSI
What brought you back in?

EVA MARIE
The job of a lifetime. I don't know what made me think of this previous boyfriend. And this
was the one back when I was 27 whom I had fallen madly for and everything. We had
been Facebook friends at one point. And then all of a sudden he just kind of disappeared
from Facebook. And I didn't know what, what had happened. So just in a, you know,
sentimental mood or whatever, I Googled him and found his obituary.

LAURA STASSI
Oh.

EVA MARIE
Yeah.

LAURA STASSI
I'm so sorry.

EVA MARIE
Oh, thank you. I was surprised at how hard it hit me. Sometime after that, I just
remembers, you know, thinking to myself about him and about situations and about life
cause we're not getting any younger. And I kind of thought to myself, what are you doing?
You think you want to be in a relationship, but you're not trying. So that's where the online
thing started. In the first week, I had four first dates.

LAURA STASSI
Awesome!

EVA MARIE
I, I told friends, I'm like, "you might want to play the lottery because I've got a date tonight.
There's been a disturbance in the force." So this guy and I decided we would meet for
lunch near my office. So he was a little touchy. But by that, I mean, you know, like when
someone'll just like touch your arm or something, which I have no problem with. And I was,
this was my first date in a long time. He walked me to the Metro so I could get back to my
office. And he gave me a good long kiss goodbye.

LAURA STASSI
Tongue?

EVA MARIE
No tongue. And it was fine. Like he held my hand walking to the Metro and I was okay with
that. Then he was still like texting me throughout the day. And I'm like, okay, I'm trying to
work. And, you know, he's like, you know, "so were you happy with the way that first date
went?" And you know, he's like, "so, you know, what do you like to do? Like intimately?"
And things like that.

LAURA STASSI
Oh.

EVA MARIE
So by the time I got home and I got a text from him later on that night, he came right out
and asked me, "so how often do you like to have intercourse?"

LAURA STASSI
Did he say have intercourse?

EVA MARIE
Yeah. How often do you like to have intercourse?

LAURA STASSI
I would be more inclined to answer if he had said something less technical.

EVA MARIE
Yeah. I said, "wow, you really put it out there, don't you? You are one horny guy." And he
said, "sensual. I'm sensual." He's like, "you know, I don't like to beat around the bush and
all this other," so to speak. Oh, my God.

LAURA STASSI
Figuratively.

EVA MARIE
Figuratively speaking. He even came right out one time and said, "when do you see us
sleeping together for the first time?"

LAURA STASSI
Oh my god. I would, how long was your first date?

EVA MARIE
One lunch. It woulda, it might have been an hour cause I had a meeting I had to get back
for. The third one, he brought his dog and we met over at the dog park near where I live.

LAURA STASSI
Oh.

EVA MARIE
And that turned into a really fun day. We then ended up having lunch and then ended, just
ended up having nice conversation. And that went into like a six hour date, yeah.

LAURA STASSI
Wow.

EVA MARIE
So Dog Date Guy has now ghosted me completely.

LAURA STASSI
Oh.

EVA MARIE
Yeah, and.

LAURA STASSI
What's with ghosting?

EVA MARIE
I don't know.

LAURA STASSI
Can't you just say?

EVA MARIE
Which, the last guy whom I met who happened to be a widower. And I said, "I'd like to take
you out to dinner to celebrate your retirement." He's like, "oh, that would be lovely and
everything." So I said, "when I come back from my weekend away, you know, we can
connect and make plans." And in the interim, he had sent me a text just saying, "hey, just
saying hello, how are you doing?" And everything like that.

LAURA STASSI
Oh.

EVA MARIE
I know. So I had gotten in touch with him and said, "hey, you know, I'd like to, you know,
decide where we can go to celebrate your retirement." And he said, "you know, I know this
isn't the answer that you're expecting." He met somebody whom he was very interested in
and wanted to focus his attention on. And he hoped that I would understand. And he was
so considerate of my feelings and so respectful that I decided that if there's people whom I
meet on this thing that I don't want to pursue, that I'm going to follow his lead.

LAURA STASSI
Right.

EVA MARIE
So I got on again and met some more people. One of them was a man who was really
interested in he, you know, kind of like me likes to go out and try new things. Do stuff, was
really interested in craft beer, which is something I'm also interested in and said he was
looking for something casual. We started corresponding and he did seem very nice, smart.
And so he comes out and he says, "so you know that I'm looking for something casual,
right?" And I said, "yeah, that's what you said." And he goes, "well, I'm married."

LAURA STASSI
Huh.

EVA MARIE
Yeah.

LAURA STASSI
What?

EVA MARIE
Yeah. Doesn't say that anywhere in his profile. Loveless marriage. Open marriage. She
lives overseas. We're not getting divorced because it's gonna cost us too much money. So
there was another guy on there. The way his profile was written kind of, it was something
like, "I won't judge you if you don't judge me." I was like, I bet he's married. And I just have
to find out for myself. So I swiped on him. And he came right out then and said that, "well, I
am married." And I was like, "well, my I expected that." But his wife, this, God. His wife has
multiple sclerosis.

LAURA STASSI
Oh.

EVA MARIE
So he's married and she's sick. I had met somebody else on there who was not married,
fortunately, but then said he was going through a divorce and it wasn't going very well and
just had this big tale of woe. And I just kind of decided, okay, I'm done.

LAURA STASSI
If you wind up by yourself. Is that OK?

EVA MARIE
Yeah. Well, it's gonna have to be for one thing. It's going to have to be. I have a good life.
You know, have a lot of female friends are my age and older who are single and don't see
that changing and don't really want it to change. You know, some who've been previously
married more than once. Some who just ever, just decided they just didn't want to get
married. You know, they'd like to date, but they don't really want to be married. We get
together, we look out for each other.

LAURA STASSI
When you're like at the end of a wonderful day where you spent by yourself and you're in
bed at night, what is your biggest, I guess, fear?

EVA MARIE
Does everybody say dying alone? Because.

LAURA STASSI
It's just somebody to hold your hand, somebody to talk to?

EVA MARIE
Somebody to talk to and somebody to connect with on that level. It's funny when I, when I
think about it, you know, including my deceased former boyfriend, I guess I can say that
there have been like three great loves of my life. I felt like I was understood and I felt like I
was known and I felt like I knew somebody, you know, and just it was a special connection
and a special feeling that I wish everybody could have. Love makes you an outrageous
optimist. You think everything is possible and you think that everyone should find this and
have this and you want everyone to have it. And if for whatever reason, it doesn't work out,
it's, it can be devastating. You know, that old saying about, you know, it's better to have
love and loss that have never loved at all? And it's like, yeah. But ultimately, it's better to
have love and kept.

LAURA STASSI
Eva Marie’s online dating experiences, ooooff. It can be hard to stay motivated after so
much disappointment. And in fact, Eva Marie told me she's gone off line and isn't ready to
get back on. Instead, she's concentrating on making new friends and bringing them into
her already established circle. Eva Marie might be giving up on online dating, but I'd like to
think she's not giving up on finding a forever partner. She knows what she wants and she
needs a little time for herself, which I think is a healthy thing to do. Pace yourself, people,
and when you're rested and ready, get back on it. Speaking of breaks, we're gonna take a
quick one.

One of the most beautiful parts of creating Dating While Gray is finding and connecting
whole communities of gray daters. You are essential to Dating While Gray. Your stories
power this podcast and your support makes it possible for us to keep producing new
episodes. You can give right now by clicking the link in the show notes or heading to
WAMU.org. Thank you.

Maybe the pursuit of love feels more urgent as we get older and that urgency might feel
amplified if we've lost a partner to death instead of divorce. And that brings me to Mark. I
actually went on a blind date with Mark. We weren't the right fit, but how great is it that he
agreed to be interviewed for this podcast? Mark is a widower. He and his first wife, Nancy,
were together almost 35 years, had two kids. Nancy was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis
early in the marriage. But it wasn't until the last few years of her life that the disease really
progressed and she needed a caregiver. Mark expected he would outlive Nancy, but he
was stunned when she died two weeks after a simple bladder infection led to a downward
spiral. Unexpectedly, Mark found new love fairly quickly. Here's my conversation with
Mark, starting with him talking about a former coworker named Jeanette.

MARK
She had read in the, obituary, Nancy's obituary in the paper and had come to the funeral.
And so, you know, went out to lunch and she invited me over to her house for her, she was
having her 50th birthday party. So after that, we started, you know, going to lunch more
frequently and then we started dating. And so her birthday was in May. So really, by
September, I think it was pretty clear that we were, you know.

LAURA STASSI
A couple?

MARK
A couple.

LAURA STASSI
And this was, what, four months after?

MARK
Nancy died in March.

LAURA STASSI
OK.

MARK
So was, you know, six months or so? Seven months.

LAURA STASSI
And were you kids okay with that?

MARK
Oh, yeah. You know, all they wanted to know was how old she was.
LAURA STASSI
Yeah. Six months, you realized it was serious. And is that when you started talking about
marriage?

MARK
We hadn't really talked about it. It just, one day, so by September, I think we were really a
couple. And then about Thanksgiving, it just, we were, you know, together and just came
into my head. And I said, and really, I didn't actually propose. I said, "well, what do you
think about getting married again?" And she said, she looked at me and says, "are you
asking me to marry you?" And I thought, thought for a minute. I said, "well, yeah, I guess I
am." And she said, "God, I never, I vowed I'd never do it again." You know, cause her her
first marriage was.

LAURA STASSI
Not good?

MARK
Not good, yeah. She said. "But. Okay." So that was it.

LAURA STASSI
Right. So when did you get married?

MARK
We got married in August of '13. She had developed this cough. At first it was treated like
it was an allergy thing cause that was one of the signs of symptoms of some of her
allergies.

LAURA STASSI
Right.

MARK
Was this cough. And it just wouldn't go away. So I said, "look, you know, why don't we just,
you know, let's talk to your allergist." So we got married in August, August third. Came
back from our honeymoon and she had a lung biopsy. Called us back you know, a week
later and said it's lung cancer.

LAURA STASSI
And what is going through your head?

EVA MARIE
More, I was more concerned about her because as we had been dating one of her big
concerns, big concerns was that she did not want to be my second invalid wife. And that's
how she put it. You know, she did not want to be that way. You know, my mind being the,
you know, sort of the fixer kind of person. You know, my focus is on, alright, what do we
need to do to treat this and beat this? You know by, it was stage four. It had, and the way
the doctor put it, meant that it had evolved the, along the chest wall.

LAURA STASSI
Right.

MARK
So the first round of chemo was, we had apparently had gone well and we got really good
reports. So that August of '14, just a year after we got married, the cancer had come back.
And this time it came back aggressively. It lasted two weeks and she died December third.

LAURA STASSI
I'm so sorry.

MARK
I thought I had been prepared for hospice at home. It was the most difficult, gut wrenching
thing I had ever done. You know, watching her die and, and having to deal with family, you
know, you know, her family, I was pretty much a wreck after she died.

LAURA STASSI
Yeah.

MARK
And.

LAURA STASSI
Were you ever thinking. And it's totally legit if you are. It's like, why me? Men typically don't
live as long as women. And you have outlived two wives.

MARK
My feeling was life is life. God has you know, God doesn't do things to us. God allows life
to go on and, you know, helps us out as we need it when, you know, stuff happens. In
many respects, Jeanette was that proverbial soul mate. I mean, we had so much in
common. We had the same likes, the same desires, you know.

LAURA STASSI
So you went to counseling and that helped you with coping?

MARK
Yeah a tremendous, tremendous. It was individual counseling as well as, as group. And in
that, I'm, I learned that it was very helpful because I learned that people grieve in
dramatically different ways.

LAURA STASSI
What, have you thought about dating since then or what, what, what's your strategy?

MARK
Oh, I tell you, I have been I've been.

LAURA STASSI
I know you've been on one blind date.

MARK
I've been on I've been on a bunch.

LAURA STASSI
Oh, I'm not special.

MARK
You know, you were I think you were my first.

LAURA STASSI
Oh.

MARK
My first. Yeah.

LAURA STASSI
Blind date?

MARK
Yes. Well, in the modern age.

LAURA STASSI
Yes, yes, yes.

MARK
In the modern age. I have spent huge amounts of money on, you know, dinners and
lunches. I've been ghosted so much I feel like Casper.

LAURA STASSI
Seriously?

MARK
Yeah. Oh, yeah.

LAURA STASSI
So, I have to ask, do people, are women a little intimidated by the fact that you are twice
widowed? Do you think or?

MARK
Oh God. We never I don't think we ever get far enough to make, for me to find that out.

LAURA STASSI
This is my philosophy and this is what I've done. And I think.

MARK
Yes.

LAURA STASSI
I do.

MARK
Yes.

LAURA STASSI
Just say, "I'm sorry. You're a nice person. I don't feel like this is gonna go anywhere. So
the end." How hard is that?

MARK
The closest that I've come to that is one woman said that she just didn't like the way I
drove and just couldn't see her sitting in the car with me, whether she was driving or not
for any long distance. I said.

LAURA STASSI
Wow.

MARK
"Okay." But I do have to say on these, one of the things about these dating sites and
maybe it's, it's peculiar to men more than women is the number of the pings I get from
women who are in like their 30's.

LAURA STASSI
What?
MARK
Whose, and this last one was this woman in her mid, 38 I think is what she said on her
site. And the pictures were of, she lived in Texas, but very voluptuous. And the only thing I
could think of was, you know, looking at this picture of this woman is, what possibly makes
you think that a guy who's almost 68 is gonna think that a woman who is 38 wants him?
You know, unfortunately, there are you know, there are these people out there who are
preying on, you know, single, single adults, single seniors. It's not uncommon for me to get
pings, you know, flirts, likes, from women who, at least according to the picture, are,
y'know, closer to my age. But they live in someplace in New York or Minnesota or
California.

LAURA STASSI
Have you thought about like joining groups or like, meet ups or?

MARK [00:20:07] I've done some meet ups, started taking classes this semester. I'm taking
beekeeping and sustainability in the environmental sciences program. And I'm taking
visual thinking in the art history. So I'm taking a genealogy class.

LAURA STASSI
Oh wow.

MARK
On Saturdays and gonna take a class in Caribbean cooking.

LAURA STASSI
Oh wow.

MARK
You know, so, you know, I'm out there. I'm.

LAURA STASSI
And you have. It sounds like you've a full life.

MARK
Yeah.

LAURA STASSI
Are you okay with, have you thought well, you know what I might be by myself the rest of
my life and, and that's okay with me?

MARK
I do not like the idea I've being, spending the rest of my life alone. You know, honestly, I
do not like that idea. I don't like doing things alone. I don't like traveling alone. I've done it. I
don't care for it. I don't like dining out alone. I've done it. I don't care for it.

LAURA STASSI
What are you looking for in a long-term partner?

MARK
Maybe part of my problem is I don't have a good answer for that. I'll know it when it
happens.

LAURA STASSI
Right.
MARK
And if it doesn't, then perhaps God's just got a different plan for me.

LAURA STASSI
After our interview, Mark had a little better luck. He met a woman at church and they went
out occasionally for a few months. Mark thought things were going well, but when the
woman decided there was no romantic spark that hit Mark hard. He said now, at the age of
69, finding love seems more urgent and also more elusive. He wrote me an email and this
is what he said:

"One thing I've discovered over the past few years is that there is a distinct difference
between dating now and in my youth. When I was young, life was fully ahead of me. If a
relationship didn't work out, no big deal. There were plenty of other women and I have all
the time in the world to find the right one. At this point in my life, I know that there are
many, many more years behind me than in front of me. And each failed relationship seems
to bring that into focus. As time and failed relationships go by, I find myself thinking that
meeting someone with whom I can have a serious, committed relationship isn't going to
happen. And that is discouraging. I haven't given up hope. I'm just finding it more and
more difficult."

I'm sorry, Mark. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to endure the loss of two partners.
And each time a new connection doesn't pan out, we bleed a little. But one of the things I
love about Dating While Gray is the stories are personal and also universal. They make us
feel a little less alone. And Mark, I just want you to know you are not alone.

ALAN Hello, Laura. This is Alan. And I've been thinking of these questions. And actually, I'm
in the men's group that has several single men and several married men, but there's about
eight of us. And the questions of being alone, the rest of our lives has, has come up and
loneliness. I think it's important to talk about these things and to listen to other people.

JIM
My name's Jim. There are many people, myself included that it's been very difficult for.

LAURA STASSI
Pursuing love takes time and patience, and in those times, it helps to know we're not
alone. You know what else might help? Hearing a story with a happy ending. That's next.

This week, I'd love for you to persuade a friend to listen to Dating While Gray. You
definitely know someone trying to navigate love, sex and relationships. Pause the episode
right now and text them a link to Datingwhilegray.com along with an episode you think
they'd like. Thanks!

This is a story about a man named GIRARD. He got married when he was a young Marine
finishing college. They had kids and then got divorced. After that, Girard dated steadily,
even had some serious relationships, but nothing permanent. And then one day when
GIRARD was 49, he just happened to be watching an episode of The Oprah Winfrey Show.
And there was a segment where Dr. Oz was talking about colon cancer. Girard realized he
had some of the symptoms and he had a bad feeling. So he made an appointment with his
doctor. And in fact, he was diagnosed with colon cancer. But in case you're worried that
this is another sad story, stick with me. The cancer diagnosis is Girard's turning point. He
reevaluates the purpose of his social life.

GIRARD
OK, here you are. When you sit down with a doctor, and your name and cancer in the
same sentence? Watch how you change. You get a different perception. Well at least I got
a different perception about time and that whatever I do, the most valuable thing I have is
my time. So knowing how I want to live the rest of my life generally with someone. Started
to think what I attracted me to women when I was in my 20's and 30's and 40's are not the
same things now. I need to know about your spiritual connection. And I don't need
someone who reads the Bible every day but someone who has at least a firm belief in a
higher power. They can be Buddha, whatever it is. As long as you believe in it, and you
sure there's some kind of way that you have a spiritual connection with this universe that
we live in.

LAURA STASSI
Girard doesn't just want a date. He wants a committed partner. He wants happily ever
after. So he works up a profile and goes online.

GIRARD
But since I've dated a couple of people here, but I realized that our goals were not the
same. Where I was focusing where I want to focus that, it wasn't happening. The
communication wasn't happening like I wanted it to happen. Some of it was my fault. And I
realized what my errors were by not putting what I wanted or was looking for up front and
being decisive about it.

LAURA STASSI
Girard keeps at it. While he's plugging away, a woman named Robin is also online. Like
Girard. Robin had been married young. She got divorced when her daughter was little, and
then really didn't date much at all. She wanted to wait until her daughter left for college.
And now her daughter's moved out. And Robin's interested in meeting someone for a long
term relationship, but she's not having much luck.

ROBIN
You would think, at least my friends think I would meet people in a profession that I am
and I have met some. But it just didn't stick. So I decided to go online. And I dated a
couple of people online. But again, we weren't on the same page. We, we had some
things in common. But the things that were important to me didn't seem to be important to
them. I am very close to not only my daughter, not only because she's a certain the only
child, but I'm also close, I have four brothers. The other thing was important to me is I like
to prepare. It wasn't so much talking about are you ready to get married again? Or I didn't
even bring those subjects up. But it was like, what is your future like?

LAURA STASSI
Robin gets discouraged. She decides that when her online subscription expires in a few
months, she's going to give it up altogether. And then she stumbles across Girard's online
profile.

ROBIN
And, you know, I looked at his page a couple of times. I really dove into his profile and I'm
like, is this guy for real? One thing, he's really into fitness. I mean, mind, soul, you know?
Close to his mom. Okay. That's a biggie because it shows how he's gonna treat you. And
then the other thing is that although I'm not into it, he loves old movies. You know, he had
this is what I'm looking for. This is what I'm about. And if you're interested, then, you know,
hit me up. So, I wonder if he's really you know , he's really for real. I said, "Okay. Let me,
let me hit him up." We probably I would say maybe went back and forth online, maybe
about three or four, four times? And then we actually exchanged telephone numbers.
GIRARD
Yes.

ROBIN
And we talked and we decided we would meet. So we said, OK. I'm like, let's meet
somewhere informal. You know something informal.

GIRARD
There in Tyson’s.

ROBIN
Where we can go, and we can just maybe have a soft drink or whatever. And, and this
way, if it wasn't, you know, if we had no connection there, no hard feelings, he's not paying
for a meal and, and that sort of thing. This is the thing. I was there first and I waited 15
minutes he's late.

GIRARD
I went to the wrong part of Tyson's.

ROBIN
No no no.

GIRARD
Cause I went to the wrong part of Tyson's. I went to.

ROBIN
OK. Yeah.

GIRARD
I thought I was on the other one.

ROBIN
OK. But you were the one who identified, you the one who said that it's got this Panera.

GIRARD
I was wrong about where it was. I know.

ROBIN
And I thought you picked it you knew where it was at.

GIRARD
I thought I knew.

ROBIN
When he walked in, I immediately knew it was him because he looked like his photo. I was
like, okay, he's attractive, you know, he's late. But, yeah, he's attractive.

GIRARD
She looked like her pictures, which was great. So I could tell by her body styling that she
probably ran track in college or high school because the way she was built up.

ROBIN
Dress.

GIRARD
She had a dress.
ROBIN
Cause it was in the summer time. So this.

GIRARD
It was summertime.

ROBIN
It was like July or.

GIRARD
It was summertime. And we got to talking. And I knew there was a possibility of a
relationship because one, on this particular day, the air conditioning in that part of the
Tyson's mall was dead. And we stayed and we talked to each other for about two hours.
That let me know, okay, there was a natural rhythm, a natural want to be around each
other. And then she, when she went to the bathroom, I looked at her going to the
bathroom. I said okay, cool. And she came back and we were talking and talking and
talking about various things. Family seemed really nice. And I said, "okay, so this is, I like
her."

ROBIN
And November. Thanksgiving, we were at my brother's house. My brother lives in North
Carolina. We went down to my brother's house and he was doing the turkey like we had
been together for years.

GIRARD
Everyone that I met that knew her always talked about how great a person she was. Her
style of dress, cause I want because I like to dress. I needed someone that liked to dress.
And then she likes to dance and I like to dance. So those are the good things we had, had
a lot of good things we had in common.

ROBIN
At first it was I mean, when you're used to being the, the sole, the breadwinner who's
taking care of everything as a single, single parent. You're just used to doing things and
having control and saying and that sort of thing. So meeting him and being he's very, very
dominant, very male, alpha male. And so it took a moment. But I think we've kind of
worked through that and we talked through it. And every now and then he will bring things
to my attention that to stop acting like his mom. And so that was something we talked
about. And I recognize that because that's just how I am with my brothers.

GIRARD
Yeah but there's certain places where you should be my mom, I want you to be my mom
like when I'm sick. Okay?

ROBIN
And the fact that you had been in remission for how many how many years? A long time.

GIRARD
You gotta remember, I met you in '16. I had the cancer back when I was 49.

ROBIN
Right. And you're right.

GIRARD
It was over 10 years.

ROBIN
So it was over 10 years, so, yeah.

GIRARD
Every day I wake, I literally every day I wake up, I look up I thank God. I look at the day, I
look and see what's different. What's different in the sky today that wasn't there yesterday?
That's how I do within myself. I don't tell a lot of people that. But that's what I do cause I
appreciate every day that I'm here. I knew what I was going to say.

ROBIN
I didn't know you were going to go on that long.

GIRARD
I know what I had to say. I knew what I had to say. I had a plan of attack. You were not an
accident.

LAURA STASSI
When I met with Girard and Robin, they were living in Robin's house and making plans to
get married. Well, guess what? They tied the knot and in about a month they're gonna
celebrate their one-year wedding anniversary. Also, they've just moved into a home that
they bought together. You know what I love about this story besides a happy ending? And
besides the fact that you can hear the love in their voices? I love that Girard had this
revelation in his late 40's and he didn't meet Robin until he's in his early 60's. And all those
years in between he stays focused. He may veer off track, but he gets back on. He's true
to himself and to the decision that he made. The pursuit of love is that important to him. I'm
gonna remember Girard's patience, especially since patience is typically not my strong
suit. After all, love takes time. Dating While Gray produced by Poncie Rutsch, Patrick Fort,
Ruth Tam, Julia Karron and me, LAURA STASSI. Our theme music is by Daniel Peterschmidt
and Mike Kidd mixes the show. WAMU's general manager is J.J. Yore and Andi McDaniel
oversees everything we make here. We'd love to hear from you. Send an email to
datingwhilegray@WAMU.org or follow us on Facebook. Search for Dating While Gray and
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of course, leave a voicemail. 202-895-GRAY. That's G R A Y. Dating While Gray would not
be possible without the support of WAMU's members. Donate now at WAMU.org. Thanks
for listening, we'll be back next week with more stories of Dating While Gray.