DaiGriffiths May '13

If you wish to discuss and use such phrases as FALSE GENERALIZATIONS then it
makes no odds to me personally but, I use my name. My name is well known, not
for being good at memorization but because of my level of understanding and
often you make claims lately on here saying this and that is not trusted or cannot
be known. You are wrong and speak when you should listen. Not trusted this and
that cannot be known rubbish. It can be and is known. We, not just me, know
some things for certain.

Incidentally, I can prove all the things I say on here as scientifically as any
scientific institution without and association with making money via publishing
deals etc. You on the other hand, could be trusted in such a way and could be
Daniel Tammet/Corney as you do not reveal who you are. You are welcome to use
your own name rather than hide behind a pseudonym if you so wish.

It seems to me that you try and contradict people in this site on a regular basis
and a separate discussion already exits regarding you in particular doing this.
Better I think for you to just improve you knowledge or not be of such an attitude
to pretend to understand and give advice on the things you aren’t really familiar
with.

Graham May '13

Dai Griffiths:

Nope, most Chinese mnemonists systems are pretty basic. They master the
Loci and they are wise to to so in my opinion.

I think you’re spot-on.

It surprises me how many people work on their images, change their systems,
improve their images, etc. yet fail to work on their loci to the same degree.

DaiGriffiths May '13

Oh, yes, Boris does sorry. That’s what I meant Josh. He has a simple system for
one deck than for marathon cards.
DaiGriffiths Apr '15
Thank you Taijutsu. I hope what I write helps you. That is my intention.

Yes, I think it is important to understand the memory, at least a little. It can be that
someone can copy a system and become excellent at it without actually
understanding it. Still, they will be more likely to want to learn and have the abiltiy
to remember when they do learn. That is how it normally starts for most people,
but not all.

I can do more by learning more about memory and a memory athlete can train
more by learning a little less by spending time on that. Both working together is a
very efficient system I think. Just as it is with a business or production line, when
someone is totally absobed with what they love. I love learning about memory
and watching those that learn it, if it is for education, fun, speed as in memory
sport or anything. Better for the finance director to memorise the company
accounts and the research and development director think of creating new ideas
by mixing old ideas, then they can talk to each other and see things from a new
perspective, without becoming too inefficient by doing something they really don’t
enjoy doing.

I trained my memory many years ago, then I changed what I do and continuously
write systems and experiments to see how things work and test them on myself
under different conditions. Because of this my memory is slow. Of course, if I
wanted, I know how to speed it up. To me, I do not see the need, since I do not
know ofa subject that I have to learn so fast that I cannot remember it perfectly
withing the given time-frame.

It is great though that people like to do it fast. I use them as examples to people
that wish to learn. If they are the top athletes, probably I will not use them as
examples in the beginning, because it might seem impossible, just as it would
seem impossible for a very overweight person to run very fast like a very healthy
person, but they can, just not immediately. They have to train, lose wight, then
practice.

A sporting coach or teacher cannot beat his students and in exactly the same
way, neither can I, if they train to be fast. I do not mean because of age, as in
memory, age may give many more locations to be used, but at the same time,
older locations may fade and people have varting amounts of locations
depending on the life they have had and the places they have been. A more social
outgoing person probably has more memories of locations due the the emotions
shared with others in those locations, good or bad. The younger person is sharper
for sure, having better ayesight and general hearlth compared to themself as they
get older, so there are benefits to both sides.

I spent many years trying even stupid things I advise my stuidents not to do. I tell
my students how to construct and use a location in great detail, then to keep it. IT
will become nearly automatic, just as walsking to bed, but I switch the order of
locations. I do not mean going backward and forward. I will completely change
the order, then rewrite a mnemonic system for it, such as the Major system, or
make one up. It causes a lot of confusion, be it helps me understand more. For
thousands of years, man has known the science of memory is true, but only about
a year ago was the science capable of proving it with someone providing what is
considered evidence today. Todays evidence will not necessarily be accepted is
avidence in the future, but the brain will continue the same way, naturally at least.
Always before the science can prove it, the brain can think it. It seems logical,
otherwise there would not be so much science. Unless science to to take one
chemical element and bombard it against another element or material, which
seems more maths than creativity

Your 3D sounding images seems interesting. I was unaware of them, other than in
computer games. I don’t need them, but I do think it would be handy if you made a
page on here so that other people could use them. Some competitors take
photo’s of locations, some stick pictures to playing cards. If an image is moving, it
would have a benefit over this, as movement will stimulate attention, after all, we
must concentrate when we sense sound or movement. If we did not, we would
get run over buy a bus, or our ancestors would have been killed by a dangerous
animal. It is for this reason that we automaticall remember the location in the first
place and how we can force concentration, even for people with some attention
disorder. Are people with attention disorder all dead because they did not pay
attention and walk in front of a bus ? I think not, so it stands to reason that this
should be incorporated in a memory system to force attention, jsut as a fast
moving large frightening bus does.

I wonder which will come first, your moving images placed on google earth
planting false memories into people that one day won’t need to learn how to
remember, or a computer implant, so people can’t forget to check their diary and
such things. Still, I would teach memory and encourage others to learn it. Better
to be ready for a short circuit or powercut in such things. Me, I prefer to see the
scenery and smell the world, taste it, feel it. Having technology is great. Having
both is better. If I want a cell with a picture of a tree like a computer screen, I will
find a way to get myself in prison. Surely then I would revert to my imagination
and the memorises of the real thing that I once had. The clarity of the images
may fade over time. The feelings don’t fade so easily.

At the moment I am memorising Chinese writing. I may build a system for others
to do the same. You might assume that I do this fast. I do not. I love words and
the alphabet, so I enjoy plodding along slowly. This slowness of thinking makes
me curious. Why does some letter or character have a certain sound ? Why is it
this shape. If i train to do it fast, I would find this laborious pretty soon. It seems
like there are endless characters in Chinese and that would be unlikely, but the
characters are buildings of other characters, just as words are buildings of letters.
I know that for me at least, once I make it a system and start to train mixing
these, as a memory athlete does wit numbers, putting the two things together
soons loses that feeling of creativity. just as bobmarding elements with other
elements. The pictures in mind make it more memorable of course, but for me, I
don’t want it to be just memorable. I want to enjoy it and to feel it. So, for this
reasson, I expect to be pretty bad at reading chinese for some time. Most of the
characters that I know, I don’t know what they mean. I have merely memorised the
shape. One day, curiosity will kick in and I will ask a chinese person about the
character, even though I could look it up in my character lesson stroke order book,
along with its history and other information. This curiousity builds my emotion.
Emotions are memorable of course. It may seem strange to many, but I am
interested in spelling in English. Others are interested in being fast writers
perhaps. Not me. Life is short enough, so I will enjoy the journey on this mental
scenic train ride the way I like to do it. maybe you like faster train rides. Do it as it
pleases you. If you do exactly as someone tells you, then maybe that curiosity,
interest and enjorment will disappear and it will become a chore. I hope not. I
hope you keep it, then teach others, because once you see that light in someone’s
eye the moment they believe in themselves and understand, you will want to feel
it again.

DaiGriffiths Apr '15

Loci in the sky: I just re-read the whole thread. Except whatever ramblings I just
posted on the fly. Sorry to be ignorant. I didn’t mean to ignore you. I guess I was
busy when I had the notification and forgot.

Anyway, regarding scanning. I think of it like this. The room in which I spent a lot
of time would be easy for me to scan. This is easy for two reasons I think. Once, I
tend to keep all of the things in a certain place. This is not for memory purposes
and some people are the opposite to me.

If I memorise my own room, then I can logically scan this one room much faster
that I can mentally travel through different rooms and locations. This, in my
opinion, as Boris has also pointed out, it more efficient in terms of speed, which is
important to him, but not so to me.

There is a downside. As you know, when you walk into a room, you will
automatically scan it, jsut as a new pupply will scan the room, or a baby crawling
around. Looking for escape routes, then food and water. Let’s assume the
location doesn’t change, then the location feels safe.

However, if the location does change, your brain will start working overtime, even
though it is familiar. A friend that changes their furniture around regularly will
effect you. You will notice it is different. As if like a camera, you will photograph
mentally these parts and compare them to what was previously a safe location,
once more establishing that your friends hosue is still safe.

Another thing is that, with a handful of locations, ones that you visit regularly, you
will know the location in massive detail. However, for other locations you may be
less familiar with the details of the room to such a fine degree. You can learn
them of course, but it will not happen naturally unless you make lots of visits to
the location. The room as as whole however, will be quite familiar to you, so it
makes more sense to use the larger room for most locations.

This way, you are not spending so much time learning every detail of every room
in your past, since I assume there are many that you can no longer visit. Of
course, you can add fake bits, which I sometimes do, even by accident, but that
will take time to construct intentionally.

Both systems are efficient, large rooms and small rooms, but I describe from my
own experience of what I think works the best, without making any actual
alterations or having detailed familiarity with the majority of locations. No doubt
Boris could fit a lot into Big Ben, as it is a big buiilding, but why spend the time
studying the architecture when he can just use the whole location as one ? After
some time, maybe he will visit it a lot and the more visits, the more details will be
noticed. Perhaps not so much with that building, because it is a complicated work
of architecture, wlthoug it is a good location, because statues and certain
building are protected, so they will not be knocked down or changed as a shop
would be.

Changes to a building you have memorised will natuirally cause a distraction,

which by definition takes away the concentration from where it is wanted, even if
it is in the same location.

I think of it like this, but not in a scientific way. Every time I blink, my brain is
taking a photo. After a certain amount of time, the blurred photo become clear in
my mind, for locations, peop,le and other things. Then, if that person changes, or
the location or thing changes, I get confused and attempt to work out what has
changed.

A few days ago I visited my friend. He normally has throwover covers on his sofa.
I sat for a while and coudn’t help scanning the room, which I know very well. Not
for memory purposes, I just couldn’t help scanning the room. After a while I
noticed what had changed. The throwovers were removed. Now, I remember what
has changed, even though I was not intentionally trying to remember anything.

The same friend has the same objects and things in his room. Unlike me however,
he regularly moves things around. So, I know the objects, but their locations
change. Maybe the next time I visit, the small table where I put my drink can last
time I visited, will be somewhere else, so I will have to use the coffee table. The
chair itself might move, but I will favour the same location, regardless if there is a
chair or sofa. The small table to me is more significant as I am likely to imagine
breaking it over someone’s head, breaking the table itself, but forcing me to use
the coffee table, which I prefer less, has a very small emotional effect on me,
because I think, oh, I don’t have the little table now.

DaiGriffiths Apr '15

Question posed to me via the private messages related to this thread.
Presumable the person doesn’t wish to be named:

Hello Dai,
I’ve seen this post and it was very educational to read. There’s one question that I
wanted to ask if you don’t mind (there are more, obviously, but this one touches
on the problem I seem to have right now as a beginner). You wrote:

My normal recommendation is something I pinched off the Government. 5 a day

like fruit and veg. I ask people to make 5 locations per day.
This sound great (and I’m familiar with how small things done every day can
really turn out to be very efficient). But I’m not sure I understand this part. First of
all I assume you’re talking about (approximately) room-sized locations and bigger,
so it does not mean that people should study their apartments carefully in the
search of new locations. Does it mean going out and making a new 5-location
journey? If so, do these journeys connect to each other somehow to make one
longer journey, say 100-locations long? Or maybe you’re talking about using real
places and adding 5 imagined rooms to them?
I seem to be stuck without good journeys, hope you can help me a bit here. Any
advice is welcome.
Thank you!

DaiGriffiths Apr '15

Question posed to me via the private messages related to this thread.

Presumable the person doesn’t wish to be named:

Hello Dai,
I’ve seen this post and it was very educational to read. There’s one question that I
wanted to ask if you don’t mind (there are more, obviously, but this one touches
on the problem I seem to have right now as a beginner). You wrote:

My normal recommendation is something I pinched off the Government. 5 a day

like fruit and veg. I ask people to make 5 locations per day.
This sound great (and I’m familiar with how small things done every day can
really turn out to be very efficient). But I’m not sure I understand this part. First of
all I assume you’re talking about (approximately) room-sized locations and bigger,
so it does not mean that people should study their apartments carefully in the
search of new locations. Does it mean going out and making a new 5-location
journey? If so, do these journeys connect to each other somehow to make one
longer journey, say 100-locations long? Or maybe you’re talking about using real
places and adding 5 imagined rooms to them?
I seem to be stuck without good journeys, hope you can help me a bit here. Any
advice is welcome.
Thank you!

DaiGriffiths Apr '15

My response to the question:

I mean 5 locations that you already know. If you happen to know 100 in order, you
only have to do five of them for a given. The reason I say this is efficient, when it
might seem small and too easy, isx because the rules regarding long term
memory.

Herman Ebbinhaus created something called the ‘Rule of 5’.

The rule if 5 states that if we want to store somthinng in long term memory, we
have to memorise it, then review it 5 times. There are breaks during this reviewing
period and the brain will learn that the information is important so, sotore it in
long term memory.

It goes like this:

1 - Memorise then Recall immediately.

2 - Review the next day.
3 - Review in one week.
4 - Review the next months.
5 - Review in three/six months.

So, if we take the information you have, which is to memorise and recall 5 items,
we can see that it is a lot more work than just those 5 items in reality. If I said to
you, go and review 50 items per day, as a newcomer, you would probably see this
as reasonable, yet possibly challenging. But when making a review plan is
needed, you won’t have time to do the work, sop you’ll put it off.

Comopetitors at memorty competition do not want to remember a random deck

of cards long term, but they do use the same principles as the rule of 5, but
shorten the time frame.

Example:
1 - Memorise deck 1, then review.
2 - Memorise deck 2, then review.
3 - Memorise deck 3, then review.
4 - Memorise deck 4, then review.
5 - Memorise deck 5, then review all 5 decks again.

Depending on how good the competitor is, it may be that they only review upon
reaching the fifth deck, tenth deck, fifteecnth and twentieth, but the point is that
you taker whatever you wish to learn, no matter how much, nor how little, then
break it up into a series of smaller groups for recalling.

Whenever I refer to locations, I refer to them as ‘familiar places’. It is this

familiarity that makes the location good. Over time and use other locations will
become good, but they will never be as good as the places where you have
shared emotional experiences.

5 locations per day for 300 days is 1,500. Probably enough for nearly any
purpose.

Also, as you said, there are more details about some locations, so where you have
vastly more detailed knowledge of a place, then maybe you will decide to split it
into more at some point. Arguably, you won’t have many of these locations,
because it’s unlikely you will know so many places in great detail without studying
them, which means they are not already familiar in such detail, but the general
room layout may be.

Here’s an article about Ebbinhaus:

http://www.flashcardlearner.com/articles/hermann-ebbinghaus-a-pioneer-of-
memory-research/