Documenti di Didattica
Documenti di Professioni
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HAL RICHARDSON )
PETITIONER, )
VS. ) Case No. : 96-0-217
)
CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI )
RESPONDENT. )
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
2008.
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APPEARANCES:
Kansas 66603.
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THE COURT: The Court would call the case of In the
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I matter of, the marriage of, Hal Richardson and Claudine Dombroski,
96-0-217.
MS. DYKES: May it please the Court, the minor child appears
biological mother.
the Court would want to distribute those to, but I do have a copy of
them.
•. \ Motion for Orders of Justice. I think the basis is that she wishes, you
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Ms. Dombroski?
to go?
your ear?
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Dr. Rodeheffer.
THE COURT: Sir, would you come on up. Can you give
(THEREUPON,
DAVID RODEHEFFER,
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(\ BY MS. DOMBROSKI:
that, they based it on your - the whole merit of the ex parte order is
have, they don't coincide with the dates. You didn't see her until the
same week after. So I'm just a bit curious as to what it is, what
records you have the reports that I don't have, obviously, and why
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you think I'm a danger and we are now five years later.
please.
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MS. DOMBROSKI: I've never done this before, imagine that.
r time.
best. Please--
own attorney. You are held to the same standard. What I've told you--
today.
to make it. Let's see, real small minded. Why five years ago, what
Q. What did- my- what information do you have other than the
fact what we have in the court documents that state nothing about
A. I'm sorry?
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Q. Do you have any documentation on you, with you, that
you can provide to the court, that shows that I'm a threat to my
daughter?
A. I don't know.
Q. "I don't know." Well, okay. Well, you know what? I want to
don't know what I can release or can't release, and I don't know what
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permission I need to release.
( released.
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--.
messed up, and I'm going to lay this down. This is what we call
doctor--
asking that the parenting time be enlarged. So the issue is, what
material change has taken place that would authorize the Court to do
that? That's the issue in this case. So that's what your questions
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Q. (By Ms. Dombroski) Dr. Rodeheffer, when was the last time
of '07.
Q. How long had it been before then that you had seen my
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daughter?
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A. I saw her prior to that on July 31st,of '07.
12.
time, and then the rest were after that. Can you explain the
difference? Okay.
point
lives.
relitigate prior orders in this case. You filed a motion that you want to
enlarge your parenting time, so the question is, the issue is what
material change has taken place. We're not going to relitigate what's
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MS. DOMBROSKI: Okay. Well, you know, we could make this
question?
really don't. At this point, it's past the point of no return and it really
doesn't matter. I had a friend that just died from doing shoveling. So
I'm going to say to everybody that it's fine to everybody that came in
here.
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Simply put, I would like to have time with my daughter again.
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And you know what? I'm not going to stop. And every time we come
in here, you know, you don't want to relitigate, she wants to send stuff I
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in, then you're asking me questions, he hasn't seen her, nobody has
MS. DYKES: There are orders previously that she not put
object to that and ask the Court to order her not to do that.
are not authorized and you can not place online, on the internet, on
your website, on your face page, face page, whatever you have, on
process-
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abuse--
examination?
Rodeheffer.
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(THEREUPON,
DR.ALBOIT,
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. DOMBROSKI:
Q. Hi.
A. Good afternoon .
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Q. Dr. Albott, it's been a few years or more and we've seen
I' you? Did you see me as to be a threat? In fact, your report to the
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/ court stated that you did not see me as a threat to my daughter. I'll
just ask you for the record again. I'm sorry. Do you see me as a
, threat to my daughter?
other than the interactions I saw between you and the biological
in the same room with the same person who perpetrated extreme
(-.. violence against her, there would - would that be a natural reaction
--
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again a wide range of behaviors, and there's not one specific that I
i and I, that's it, that's all there is, that's the only reason why I can't see
and I?
that's what it was. I had owed $112 to the case manager and daddy
said that--
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MS. DYKES: Your Honor, I'm going to object to--
question.
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profile for a batterer versus the profile on a victim. Did you know that
the literature.
small, and/or how do you think throughout their life span, especially
when, with this conflict, that is going on between her father and I,
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would affect a regular, a regular child?
because her father and her mother have conflict? Is it in the best
A. I think that-
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hypothetical that you address, perhaps, to an expert, but there has to
be some foundation laid for that, that the doctor doesn't have. I
mean, it's obvious that he has had no contact with this case since
2004. And the issue presently before the Court has to be the things
Dr. Albott hasn't been involved in this case since 2004. It's now 2008.
(,
, mentioned earlier that we are not going to relitigate what has
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happened in the past, but we're here today to determine what's in the
best interest of your child, as you noted, and whether you should
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have expanded parenting time with your child. So if Dr. Albott has
seen you or your child in the very recent past, then you can pose a
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MS. DOMBROSKI: I have no further questions. I
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going to go back to the original motion, since that's the way you're
wanting to go.
hearing the evidence right now. If you've finished putting on all your
evidence, then you need to rest, but if you haven't then you need to
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MS. DOMBROSKI: With the evidence for the record that I wish
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to present for the case is the case of the Inner American Commission
Other than that, I have really not passed, but I'm going to go ahead
and go here with this. I can't call the Guardian ad Litem, who is
cross her on that, so kind of stops that. So we'll come right back
I down to it, maybe we can save all these people time. I was going I
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have Connie just talk about what she thought of -- well, I guess our
witness.
(THEREUPON,
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. DOMBROSKI:
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Q. Hi, Connie. I'll make it short and sweet. You've known
Ricki and I since 1995, I believe is when we were first ordered into
then in 2000, when dad got custody, I was ordered into supervised
visits.
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are from 2004 forward, so I can't reference those exact dates.
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March of '08, because at that time, as stated in the report, you know,
felt that there was just not enough reason to carry on with things in
Ricki didn't have any idea really what was going on and that we
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needed to move forward with this basically other than--
A. That was more so - her opinion was that she didn't feel
having unsupervised contact with you at that time, and had never
r -', structured facility of guards and closed rooms, and one-arm's length
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['\ monitors. Is that, that's not really comfortable, it's definitely not a
basically?
as far as, you know, I'm not an evaluator of those folks. I can't say
how they feel and their emotional state, but I know that her verbal
Q. Okay. But clarify, because you said she didn't want - she
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no longer wanted to -
you.
I see me at all, period. Clarify this for me. Or that she doesn't want to i
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r: see me in supervised visits in that setting? !
talk to about friends and school and go places with without a fear of
she be embarrassed?
with her mother and talk about friends and be that normal kind of
A. What she said to us was that she wished she could have
a normal relationship like other kids do, but that she didn't feel she
supervised visits because the parent that is visiting them has mental
child in, Some people see their children supervised because they
just recently found out through paternal testing that they were the
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Q. Why was I in supervised visitation?
unsupervised.
issues was that you had left the community and -- with your daughter
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at one time, against Court order. And then, but there were several
situations that, from 2004, to the current time, you know, that were
to your attention?
For example, when you arrived at the school when you weren't
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supposed to be there, It was against Court o~der for you to be there I
2004?
against somebody to have custody of a child and then put the non-
violence?
didn't-
That is not within the personal opinion or the basis for which this
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court order. So that is not an appropriate question to ask her.
approximately? Out of all the cases that have gone through this
years?
reasons. So it's hard for me to really say that that's highly unusual.
Q. Really. Wow, that's sad. Okay, well, I don't really have any
constitutes (INAUDIBLE)
please call your next witness. You have Mr. Swartz here. Is he a
witness?
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MS. DOMBROSKI: Well, Mr. Swartz was the whole reason
why I'm under supervised visits with Dr. Rodeheffer and the fact that
Litem-
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THE COURT: Is he a witness that you're going to call? ,
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MS. DOMBROSKI: Right now, I really don't know what to say,
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to be perfectly honest with you, Your Honor.
(THEREUPON,
LLOYD SWARTZ,
DIRECT EXAMINATION
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BY MS. DOMBROSKI:
A. Fine.
bring up the past as to why we're here in the present which is how it
became kind of a mix up, but what is the job of the case manager?
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I A. You're correct, I haven't done it for several years and so I
I'm not sure if it's changed from the time that I was a case manager,
but as I understand it, the role of the case manager back in those
days was to serve as the final solution for courts that could not come
concluded that they had been in court, I think it was more than three
times in the last six months to twelve months, that the Court
concluded that it was not successful to come to court. That the court
And that the case manager was to serve, basically, as a person who
court?
and the parties would have ten days in which they could object. And
filed--Iet me-I've never met the judge that signed this order, Judge
Let me ask you, about how many times-- about how many
Swartz this, but it sounds like from his testimony that he was the
correct?
Mr. Swartz, do you recall when you were case manager in this
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case?
looked at the Court docket sheets and it ended for me July of 2005.
i point in time-
But let me ask you, what we are here for today is what is relevant
and what has happened in the recent past. So I'm wondering what
Mr. Swartz is doing here if he hasn't been the case manager since
2005.
locked in this position for the last five years. This case has not
gossipy circle without - this is the first time in five years I've ever
keep saying come back to the present, which I'm trying to do. Okay .
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And you're saying significantly happened in the last, what, five years,
this witness that he could answer within the recent past, and that's
not five years ago, that's not five years ago, that's within the last
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i-" Court order in this case as to why your parenting time should be
expanded.
witness.
THE COURT: Can you spell your first name for me?
KARA HANEY,
voice up for us. I think there's also some Kleenex's there if you need
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. DOMBROSKI:
Q. Hi, Kara .
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A. Hello.
flustered with every thing that's going on. I'm extremely disorganized.
I just want to ask you what you have observed between Ricki and her
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daughter since August. What I have observed is that both you and
observed times when your daughter tries to talk to you about things
and you talk right over her head as if she hasn't even spoken. I have
A. Absolutely.
Q. Is that--
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A. Absolutely .
case and the history of the case, would you call these normal
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reactions for that situation that need working say reunification
therapy? Okay. Let me retract all that, take all that back. When were
visits in July, and then I took the case in August and have been
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supervising visits since.
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THE COURT: Why don't you start it and we'll see, okay?
it was to say that Ricki stated that she wanted to have contact, more
normal contact, which has been in court on the record with her
mother, and that therefore they thought they would try the Odyssey
question about?
that manner. But right now, you need to ask questions of the witness.
Okay?
.j\ before.
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Q. (By Ms. Dombroski) Odyssey has been, you guys have
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been really wonderful, I want to say thank you. Let's see.
Other than that, I mean. Are these issues that you think that
that in my experience speaking with Ricki and asking her what her
visitation and things like that, she has expressed, and it is my priority
to look out for Ricki's best interest, she has expressed a desire to
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keep things status quo. She has expressed a desire to keep the visits
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every other week. She has expressed a desire that she wants them
to stay supervised .
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Q. You don't think that-that Ricki might-
r', 'more than one occasion, but especially recently, that you know that
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, at age 14 she's got her own opinions and she's expressed a desire to
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decision, not your decision, not mine, she wants it to be her decision.
I think that that is very important to her, and she has stated to me that
to make these, I mean, after all these years of not talking or seeing
her mother, and then all these other external pressures along with
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her normal growing up and 13- and 14-year-old stuff. and you know,
her with you at this point is more of a pressure than anything. Right
now. I think, that she is doing well to thrive in school and have normal
teenage relationships, and to do the things that she does, and I think
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talked to her last week and I talked to her after the visit and before
the visit, and she expressed to me that there are several things that
she wishes for in her relationship with you and she does not have
those things. And she doesn't think that she can get them currently.
She doesn't feel like you take her seriously. She said she just wants
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have, it's kind of hard to hear it all, and so do you think that
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separating it more is going to make it easier? I mean, here we are,
we've got people, that a mother and a daughter that don't know each
other. We haven't been around each other, and it's uncomfortable for
both of us. I mean, it's probably the most shutful (sic) thing for me to
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been alienat~d f-r-om-
the child, what do you do in a situation like that? ~.
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Don't you try and like give them time to get to know each other again,
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basically?
think that we have a 14-year-old who has been very clear and
that would happen, that you and your daughter would need to have a
Q. Okay, good.
Court.
CROSS EXAMINATION
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Q. You stated that you have met with Ricki and her mother
A. Approximately.
A. Not at all.
A. Yes.
Q. And do you see any harm to Ricki if things stay just the
now.
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CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. HOFFMAN:
A. Yes.
do you actually see them yourself and understand what she's talking
about?
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, ' particular behavior at the visit. I
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MR. HOFFMAN: Okay. Thank you, ma'am, nothing
further.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. DOMBROSKI:
I need to stand -- sit, and I'm going to sit down and ask the question,
Q. (By Ms. Dombroski) Kara, we've run into boys and we blush
A. Yep.
two weeks. We were getting - when visits first, started we were going
every Saturday for two hours with the goal to increase and expand
visitation. Ricki, when she said that she wanted to stop and go every
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other week, there was -- she didn't feel real comfortable really even
saying that she just didn't know what to say. Do you think a kid wants
to please both parents and is going to do the very best that she can
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divorce, even amicable ones. I want to share that, you know, Ricki,
. Q. Oh, I know.
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I have testified to in Court are her wishes and she knew that I was
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going to voice those. She doesn't want to hurt your feelings, she
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loves you, but she wants her wishes known.
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Q. Okay. Why-- wow-- what stress at 14,13, five years to
Q. (By Ms. Dombroski) I just, what is the goal from here with
based on the best interest of the child, we should try to pursue small
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who is bright and knows what she wants and is expressing it, and I
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wouldn't recommend going against her wishes at this point.
I would feel that that was not in her best interest. So as Ricki
stated, she would like to leave things the way that they are.
that, all she needs to do is say so and that that can happen.
(-" five years ago started this when Ricki did want to see her mom when
they severed our contact? So we've got five years here. Five years
she has been separated from her mom. For five years, she's heard
what she's been only what she's been forced to live the past five
(THEREUPON,
HAL RICHARDSON.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. DOMBROSKI:
now.
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A, Not so much then, but now, I think she's old enough to
Q. And in the past five years, she's been denied almost all
contact with her mother, so she really doesn't know her mother so
what does she want is only based on the past five years of time that
A. Right.
parent?
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A. She wants a mom.
you're around her every day and every night, every day, and every
night. So--
Q. Okay.
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(-'\ Someone that's going to separate theirself a little bit away from that
little girl to just be a mom, just kind of stand back and let her be a kid
Q. Uh-huh.
to kind of sit back and watch things happen. She don't need some of
A. You said earlier that you see boys and you both giggle
and laugh, you know that's kind of freaky, but that's where you kind of
Q. But how can I step back and let her be a kid if I'm not
with her, to show that you can do that. And she would be a changed
girl in no time.
(.. love to say, but I don't. All I can think of is I just want to make the
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(---, future better for her. I don't even -- I don't know anything about her. I
don't know anything about her. So it's not like I can just be a mother
other than the fact that and we can't do that by keeping more time
putting more distance between that. We're not going to get to know
each other and be able to assume those natural roles. You're going
to keep - are you going to just, let me see here. Do you think that
she can do that by seeing me less? I can do that by seeing her less,
A. You-
limited two-hour period times over what extends over how many
time talking with her and letting her be a kid and you be mom. And I
think if you done that a few times you would probably see some
things change.
having a movie, sitting on the couch, and just hangin' out, right?
I coffee and she drinks hot chocolate and we both just sit and read
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I books. There's a lot of things you could do.
know that I just- if you guys are set on this, everybody's set on it, I
guess I don't really have anymore to say other than I just wish that
A. No.
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Q. Because you can see her hurt?
A. I see her hurt, I see her confused, I see her sad because
she has little girlfriends, especially back when she was in grade
Q. Uh-huh.
(", anything for her on Mother's Day, things like that. That's what I don't
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like about it.
A Yes.
you know it, and I'm not gong to sit and argue about it, is not truth,
Q. Uh-huh.
A It's embarrassed her all along the way. She hears about it
at school.
Q. Uh-huh.
Q. You-
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Q. Okay.
around, that it's the judiciary that should be embarrassed, it's the
people that let her down that should be embarrassed not the fact that
because, yeah, it's a very embarrassing thing. But it's -- not what if
it's - it's somebody - you want me to take all the blame for
she's just like me, just the few times that I've seen her.
question.
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MS. DOMBROSKI: At any time is the right time to do what's
right and anybody can do that, that's all I'm saying, and you know-
has been for the past five years, nine years, actually ten years, we're
going to put it that way, past ten years is going to make it better?
separation.
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THE COURT: I would sustain the objection. Do you have
that you may testify. If you wish to testify before you close and rest
take the stand and offer testimony under oath? You'll have a chance
to summarize-
the Court at the time of closing arguments. This is just part of your
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arguments?
brought to the court today to hear. If you want to also add evidence,
court. They're already under oath when they enter the courtroom.
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( statement, but this is just -- by resting, you would not have any other
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evidence to present before the Court.
MS. DOMBROSKI: No, the only evidence that I'm wanting to-
I'm just not getting this out very well. No, your Honor, I don't. But I
case at this time or do you have additional evidence that you want to
put on?
guess what I'm trying to say is what I've already said, though, is that
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that has been presented in the courtroom today. Now, you're at the
going to rest your case, at which time I will tum to Mr. Hoffman and
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you want to testify as a witness, you go under oath and you come up
here.
f---" not do that because it's all an oxymoron. There was never any
this, no. Yes, I'm resting, because I do not understand how to do this.
because the whole thing about evidence, and you know, you're
this hearing.
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MS. DOMBROSKI: But the evidence, the facts--
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evidence?
evidence?
MS. DOMBROSKI: It's been ten years since I've had a normal
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relationship with my daughter. It's been ten years since I have been
able to, ever even had the opportunity, to present evidence or even
an evidentiary hearing. Ten years have gone by and my little girl grew
up, and we can't change that, we can't fix that. That's lost forever.
I really don't know what to say other than the fact that
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psychiatric nurse.
I had a little girl. I was so happy. I had a little baby who almost
died. And then I had the mis -- I was -- I was under the fortitude that I
had the right to be safe and I'm not supposed to be hurt and I had
if she witnessed the violence, and I left. If I had known what I know
now, I wouldn't have done that, I wouldn't have left. What I do now I
to her. I want her to know that there is no justice in courts when you
walk into those doors and you say you don't have the right. You don't
have the right. And Ricki knows that and a lot of people know that.
We've lost ten years. The only thing I can do is keep being a
that we've been through. I would just love to -- I will meet her again, I
know. I know that's not going to happen in the next four years.
Silverman, Jaffe. I can't take that off the web. I don't own the intemet.
/--'. 'my site is my site. Kansans for Judicial Accountability, there was a
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as she was sitting outside this courthouse, and all I could think of
was my daughter. And you guys are saying they're saying that's not
being a mom? I don't see my child. I can't sit back and watch the
games. I can't sit back and watch a movie with her. But I could see
my daughter in that little girl, and in every child that walks around I
do is as a mom. I'm trying to protect her the best I can. Ten years has
gone by. I'm not going to get that back, and I'm not going to change
this yet, but for my daughter, I will. Because she deserves it and her
I had a job, I had a whole life. I mean, I was crushed down. You
guys have crushed me down. The system has tom me apart and
thing called the internet and she found out about her mom, and back
,-.. in April she said, "I want to see my mom," when she thought a lot,
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___., you know, there's a lot of things she doesn't know, And it's so huge,
I you can't just sit there in two hours and see it. You have to get to
child in the only way that I'm allowed to. The system failed us. So I'm
going to I keep plugging and keep getting it out there. I won't let it
happen to her children. And the ex parte and the - everything that
has happened in the past five years, right up to this day, I have never
had the opportunity, ever, to talk like I'm doing now which has totally
heart attack from doing his windows today and I didn't think I was
going to make it in. I'm going to just stick with the heart and I'm going
to stick with humanity and I'm going to be the change that I want the
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world to be for my daughter. I want the world be a better place, I want
it to be safe. I want the world to be safe. I want her to know that she
has a lot of rights, and it's not just one sided, and it's going to take
everybody to do this so. That's the only way I know how to be a mom,
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..~ I say to the court that the facts asserted in the motion that is presently
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in front of you have not been supported by the evidence in any
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meaningful way. In giving complete deference to this request that's
being made here, it would seem that the request is that somehow an
interest, and other than the self-serving statements that have been
made here, I don't think that there is any evidence to support that. In
fact, the evidence that has been adduced here would suggest
otherwise.
in this case since 1996 together, a fair amount of deference has been
would suggest that they are meritless and there is no support for
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MR. HOFFMAN: I think-~hat the Court ShOUI~beawa-re that Mr.~1
Dombroski has- Mr. Richardson has always paid his fees and costs
for Mr. Richardson's counsel, but for some of these people that are
ad Litem has had to sit here throughout this and each and every time
she has been called upon to do that. My guess is that she has a
and I think others, and I think that this motion is patently without
merit.
I've assured her that I would allow her voice to be heard through me. I
I
And it's been difficult at times. There was one time that I brought
I,
Ricki in to speak to Judge Johnson, and I think she was expecting a
little more than what actually occurred that day. And I tried to I
I
reassure her that I will go into court and I will fight for you and I will
I
try to get what you want to have happen in court. Well, last Friday
she turned 14, and in the court's eyes in some way, shape or form,
that is kind of a magic number, and courts tend to give a little more
Ricki is saying. She has spoken through the most current provider
time. She's had more contact with Ricki than any of the other
/' that Ricki does not want anything to change, that Ricki would let
,
•
fashion.
testify, stated that there are certain things that Ricki just wishes would
happen, and they are not complicated things at all. Ricki has
reiterated that same thing to me a dozen or more times. That she just
wants a mom. She doesn't want a best friend, she doesn't want
somebody hanging out with, she just wants someone there that can
be that can fill that role. And it doesn't happen. And no matter what
/'"'
i
i
Ricki says, she talks and talks and talks, but somebody's got to listen
" in order to hear what she is saying, and we just ask that you listen to
Ricki today and to deny the motion that is before the court .
•
MS. DOMBROSKI: May I make another statement, please?
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-,----
"
69
~ _ ..,-- -~,
i
'-, .
where I love my daughter so much that I am not going to spend the
next four years in supervised visits with her because I can't make
because she doesn't have time to get to know her mom. So let's let
Ricki get to know her mom by separating her even further. That's not-
- I - I can't even say, you can say however you want, but that's the
bottom line. Ricki wants a mom, but it's mom's fault, so lets separate
it, even if she would just do in the two hours every now and then here
and there, you know, zoooop, that two hours goes by so fast. And
that was the most wonderful two hours we've had in five years.
know, it's all in the record. I'm not going to repeat it. The truth is in
the record. It's just, you know, I'm down to $500 a month, so we'll just
•
keep on going like that and that's really going to make it better for
Ricki and her mom. You know, and really it's just going to make it
better for them to try to make me go away and keep Ricki separated
from her mom, and she does need mom. More than ever she needs
and that, whether they live with that parent or not, that's what I have
,,--,
,
to do for my daughter, is an example. And keep the separation,
..._J
70
,--- --,
f~ okay, I am finished.
filed in this case. There was simply no evidence that backed up your
the Social Security benefits. And quite frankly, all the witnesses in
this case testified that the best interests of the child in this case was
to leave the child where she is under the parenting time as it is now .
•
Any future motions that you file in this case need to be
Now, Mr. Hoffman, I'm going to ask you to draw up the journal
Kansas Statutes, that contrary to the law, contrary to the law_ Here
we are listening to the gossip section, skip the law part, and then
-
72
CERTIFICATE
STATE OF KANSAS )
) ss:
COUNTY OF SHAWNEE )
I, Misty M. Phillips, Transcriptionist of the Third
Judicial District of the State of Kansas, do hereby certify that
the foregoing transcript contains all of the proceedings
requested to be transcribed: That said transcript, consisting
of 70 type written pages, is a correct and complete
transcript- ( as correct and complete as a digital recording
will allow) -- from the digital recording made at the time of
the proceeding.
I further certify that the said transcript was made from a
digital recording and the recording was, at times, hard to
hear, to understand, people spoke at the same time at points
during the proceeding, and the transcription was done to the
best of my ability, having not been present at the time of
•
recording.
SIGNED, OFFICIALLY SEALED, and FILED, with
the Clerk of the District Court, Shawnee County, Kansas,
This 5th day of February 2009.
Misty M. Phillips
Transcriptionist