RUTH TAM

Hey, it’s Ruth and Patrick. It’s our last episode. We’ve done 7 episodes looking at what D.C.’s
iconic food says about what it’s like to live here.

PATRICK FORT
Thanks so much for spending time with us. We’ve already heard from listeners who are excited
about a potential second season.

Before we think about more episodes, we want to hear from you about what you liked, or didn’t
like about our first season.

RUTH TAM
And, we want to get a better sense of what you want from a show like ours. Did you enjoy our
weekly meetups in local bars and restaurants? Would you have preferred a big ticketed show
with a program? Stuff like that.

PATRICK FORT
If you want to support another season of this show, an easy, free way to do that is to go to the
link in the episode description to answer a few questions. It only takes a few minutes and we will
not spam you.

RUTH TAM
And now, onto the show.

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RUTH TAM
If all you know about D.C. is from the national news or TV shows, chances are you define power
one way.

PATRICK FORT
Power is currency in times of crisis.

WEST WING
All I have in this situation is influence. Influence and relationships! If you take those things away
from me, I am powerless!

PATRICK FORT
Power is the ability to change the odds in your favor.

SCANDAL
And get yourself some power. Real power. 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue power.

PATRICK FORT
Power is time.

PARKS AND RECREATION

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Man: Hi guys thanks for meeting me.
April: Enough chit-chat. What’s your pitch, kid? Come on time is money. Money is power. Power
is pizza. Pizza is knowledge. Let’s go!
Man: OK!

PATRICK FORT
Power is leverage. Permission. And access.

RUTH TAM
Power is going out to lunch with your coworkers.

PATRICK FORT
Wait, it is?

RUTH TAM
Yeah! Power lunching! You know, a business meeting, having some sort of high-powered deal
and making it happen over lunch. Obviously this kind of meal doesn’t apply to everyone, but that
version of eating out in D.C. has persisted for decades. There are people who still think the
most iconic dish of D.C. is steak!

PATRICK FORT
I mean, what did you have for lunch today?

RUTH TAM
Uh, I had a bag of chips that I may have stolen from WAMU’s Guns and America team. What
did you have?

PATRICK FORT
I had leftovers, and it was the third time this week I had eaten them.

RUTH TAM
This is Dish City. I’m Ruth Tam.

PATRICK FORT
And I’m Patrick Fort. What’s the deal with D.C.’s power lunch?

ANNA PALMER
Who people are spotted with can have actual political significance.

RUTH TAM
And what if you don’t have any power?

PERSON 1
No, I just sort of eat as fast as I can and get back to work.

PATRICK FORT

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Today, we’re talking about how food represents power in Washington. What does your lunch
say about your station in D.C.?

(THEME SONG)

RUTH TAM
The power lunch has been a lowkey flex for a really long time -- and not just in D.C.!
In the 1950s, these kinds of meals often took place at traditional steakhouses and were
sometimes called “three martini lunches,” which gives you an idea of the type of person who
could afford them, what their schedule was like, and the image of excess it signaled.

PATRICK FORT
If you’re someone who has power in D.C. -- a government official, a political consultant, a
lobbyist, a lawyer -- doing business over a meal has always been a way to network, strategize,
and negotiate deals. And there’s one type of restaurant in particular people associate with these
meals.

DON ROCKWELL
Steakhouses will always be popular here. As long as the federal government is here, we’re
going to have steakhouses.

RUTH TAM
That’s Don Rockwell. He’s a Washington region native and runs the dining website
donrockwell.com.

As the nation’s capital, D.C. has long attracted people who want to be seen, to be influential on
a national scale.

PATRICK FORT
For years, there’s been a demand for restaurants that cater to the needs, budgets and egos of
lawyers, lobbyists and politicians. Not just for their business meals or private dinners, but for
special events.

DON ROCKWELL
You remember The Palm in Dupont Circle? It was a place to see and be seen.

PATRICK FORT
No shade to steakhouses, but they seem kind of cliché at this point? There isn’t really any buzz
about how great steakhouses in D.C. are, and even more importantly - I don’t know anyone who
has the time to spend hours at lunch. Aren’t steaks more of a dinner thing anyway?

RUTH TAM
So, we put it to Don: Why are they still so popular in D.C.?

DON ROCKWELL

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For example, our current president. When he goes out, he orders a well-done steak at his
steakhouse and it’s always been that way for politicians who are from other parts of the country
and aren’t necessarily adventurous when it comes to, you know, ordering tripe or sweetbreads
or uni for example. They want steak and potatoes.

RUTH TAM
As a midwesterner, I think people from the middle of the country deserve way more credit than
that. But, I think Don’s making a finer point about the kind of politician that finds their way to
D.C. and what food is considered “upscale” to them.

PATRICK FORT
I think there is also a component of what eating a steak means. You’re going to this really fancy
restaurant to eat a big chunk of meat. There’s this performative nature to it - this really primal
thing. Most of the people we imagine in these situations are men. Ordering a steak for lunch
says, “I am powerful,” “I am masculine.” Drinking three cocktails and downing a steak means, “I
can keep up.” Eating a salad, in the shark tank that is the power lunch, means weakness. And
because of who’s at the table, everyone’s reputation is at stake. Think Don Draper and his
colleagues in Mad Men.

MAD MEN
Roger -You ready for another? Or have you topped off your tank?
Don - You’re leading this dance.
Roger - Alright, what the hell, to the GOP! They’ll never smell it over the stench of Brylcreem.
Another round? Wait, you still good with these or prefer your beloved rye?
Don - Today? I’m on the Roger Sterling diet.
Roger - Easy on the vermouth? Another dozen of these?
Don - Me as well.

RUTH TAM
Okay, it’s clearly a scene. But who really cares about where these power players dine, though?

PATRICK FORT
Because where and what you eat means something - and there are some pretty powerful
people in D.C. who think that way too.

[Jazzy music playing]

So I subscribe to this newsletter called the Politico Playbook.

ANNA PALMER
Hi my name’s Anna Palmer, I’m senior Washinton correspondent for Politico and co-writer of the
Politico Playbook.

JAKE SHERMAN

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And I’m Jake Sherman, I am also a senior writer at Politico and also the co-author of the Politico
Playbook.

PATRICK FORT
The Playbook is full of political news, but there’s also a section called “Spotted” that’s filled
politicians scene schmoozing. Reading that part feels like you’re watching an episode of Gossip
Girl but like Washington edition.

VOICE
Spotted: Ivanka Trump at Cafe Milano.
Spotted: Ben Bernanke at Old Ebbitt Grill.
Spotted: Corey Lewandowski in the back room of Ocean Prime after his senate judiciary
testimony.

GOSSIP GIRL
You know you love me. Xoxo, Gossip Girl.

RUTH TAM
I guess I understand that. Politics kind of are definitely a sport here! In this town, bars host
viewing parties for things like the presidential debates and Senate committee hearings. It’s one
thing for political journalists to follow these kind of events, but unless news is actually made,
why do we need to cover politicians’ meals like it’s the back page of People magazine?

ANNA PALMER
Who people are spotted with can have actual political significance.

PATRICK FORT
We grabbed lunch with Anna and Jake at Centrolina. It’s this trendy Italian spot in City Center
that they say is a place to be seen.

ANNA PALMER
You have, you know, political odd bedfellows, Republicans and Democrats meeting. And over a
meal might try to come together on a deal on all kinds of different issues. And so I think that’s
one of the reasons why it’s important and we try to, we think it illuminates kind of a larger truth
about this town.

RUTH TAM
When we arrived, it hadn’t hit peak lunch yet, but the staff was hustling to prepare for the
incoming lunch rush. We both ordered the branzino, even though that kind of violates our usual
code of trying as many different items on a menu as possible.

PATRICK FORT
Yeah we’re both pretty firm on not ordering the same thing as someone else at the table.

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RUTH TAM
But for Anna and Jake, this lunch wasn’t really about what we were eating.

ANNA PALMER
So much of this town is about information -- getting it, obtaining it. I can’t tell you the number of
people who said, “Yeah, you know, I got like my last big client cause I just - I wasn’t even having
lunch but I saw them at this restaurant and we shook hands and I said ‘Oh, I’ve got this big
problem can you come talk to me about it?’’’ You know, this is a place where it’s all about who
you know, what you know and kind of how can you leverage that. And over a meal? That’s often
is a great place to do it.

PATRICK FORT
In order to cover Washington, you have to go where the politicos go. They have their eyes
peeled. Even as we talked over our lunches in our corner table, Jake was scanning the room,
on the lookout for any arriving power players.

JAKE SHERMAN
This is a city I think, I know based on just reporting and experience, where, if you want privacy,
you could have it. So if you’re eating with somebody on an outside patio, or you’re somebody
eating on an outside patio even if you aren’t with somebody significant, then that’s a statement,
right? I mean...

RUTH TAM
And Anna and Jake aren’t the only reporters in Washington who know you can pick up a scoop
if you just pay attention to where powerful people eat.

Ken Vogel
Yeah, I’m Ken Vogel, I’m a reporter in the New York Times’ Washington bureau.

RUTH TAM
Ken usually reports on the influence of money in politics. And on one particular day in 2017, he
got the power-iest of power lunching scoops. Ken was having lunch with a source at fancy spot
a block from the White House called BLT Steak. It’s often the setting for power lunches.

KEN VOGEL
And the source - not me - noticed that seated behind us was, were two of the lawyers who were
tasked with helping Donald Trump through the Mueller investigation. Ty Cobb and John Dowd.

RUTH TAM
He was trying to stay focused. He was there to talk to his source about another story, but...

Ken Vogel
I found myself sort of noticing that I could hear pretty clearly what these two lawyers were
saying. After the source and I had basically finished up, I told him that I was just gonna hang out
there, I’d picked up the check. And then I just continued to sit there, and get refills of my iced

6
tea, over and over and over again, really testing the limits of my bladder to be able to look as if I
was just nonchalantly hanging out and catching up on emails as I was overhearing this
conversation.

RUTH TAM
Ken learned that there was a dispute on President Trump’s legal team. His White House
lawyers and his personal lawyers? They disagreed over how much to cooperate with special
counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russian election interference. And once Ken
overheard this, he started reaching out to his sources. And this tipoff became a 1700 word story
in the New York Times.

KEN VOGEL
I think it’s generally just human nature to sort of like, take notice when someone in whom you
might be interested, personally or professionally or whatever, is having a conversation around
you. But in D.C. with the concentration of people – lawyers, lobbyists, government officials who
do do lunch in this five square block radius – it is like potentially, a useful reporting technique.

RUTH TAM
It was the kind of candid moment that said a lot about what was happening in politics at the
time. The kind of thing that could only happen in D.C. because Ken Vogel was in the right place
at the right time. We wanted to see if it could happen to us, so we went downtown to witness
power lunching firsthand.

PATRICK FORT AND RUTH TAM

P: There it is our destination.
R: I see a bunch of white men in suits we have arrived!

PATRICK FORT
We arrive at The Palm, one of the places most well-known for its power lunch scene.

PATRICK FORT AND RUTH TAM

R: We have a reservation under Patrick Fort?
P: Yeah that’s me!

RUTH TAM
The Palm’s D.C. location has been open since 1972. Then U.S. ambassador to the U.N. George
H.W. Bush was a huge fan of The Palm’s original location in Manhattan, and he often
complained about the lack of good restaurants in Washington. So, enter The Palm.

PATRICK FORT
I just wanna say it’s really funny that this is how one of the most well-known steakhouses got
started in D.C. Some transplant - aka George Herbert Walker Bush - complained there were “no
good restaurants” in D.C. and then he got a steakhouse of all things built here. And it’s a New
York steakhouse not even a Texas one.

RUTH TAM

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It’s like, you walk in and feel like ‘oh it’s fancy restaurant because there are wine glasses and
white table cloths and men in suits.’ But then you look at the walls and it’s a bunch of like
caricatures of the famous people that have been here. And it’s like the kind of like oh, you’re
passing, walking down the street and you have an artist draw a caricature of you, that kind of
caricature.

PATRICK FORT
The people whose faces decorate the walls of The Palm represent powerful Washingtonians
both past and present. Bill and Hillary Clinton, Ronald and Nancy Reagan. There’s some
Kennedys, CNN correspondent Jake Tapper.

RUTH TAM
The restaurant is a mix of deadly serious steakhouse and quirky family restaurant. But the
clientele and the menu are pretty strictly business.

PATRICK FORT AND RUTH TAM

P: A power lunch. A fixed price power lunch
R: Yeah, you got your soup or salad course. Your main protein. And your dessert!
P: Yeah, your dessert! I think that’s...
R: Oh the dessert is an additional three dollars though.
P: Oh sad.
R: An important distinction, it’s not included which...

RUTH TAM
Patrick and I both ordered the same thing again: steaks, with Caesar salad.

RUTH TAM AND PATRICK FORT AND WAITER

R: I’m gonna do the power lunch special with the Caesar salad and the Chairman's Reserve
New York Strip.
W: And do you like anchovies on your Caesar?
R: Yes, please.
W: And how do you like your New York done?
R: Medium rare.
W: OK.
R: Thank you.
P: I’m going to have literally the exact same thing.
W: OK.
P: Like, verbatim.

PATRICK FORT
Power lunches and the steakhouses they often happen at feel very traditional like you’re
stepping back into some sort of time machine. Mike Melore, the restaurant’s general manager
feels the same way.

MIKE MELORE

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We don’t change very much. We don’t go with trends.

RUTH TAM
It makes sense. The food at The Palm is tasty, but it’s not really the main reason why people go
to a place like The Palm.

PATRICK FORT
Yeah, it’s to be greeted by someone knows what you do and how important you are.

MIKE MELORE AND RUTH TAM AND PATRICK FORT

M: We definitely Google people all day long. During lunch, we probably Google a dozen people
a day.
R: Did you Google us?!
M: We did.
P: Really?!
M: We sure did.

RUTH TAM
It’s to be served by someone who knows who your competitors are and how to be discreet
about it.

MIKE MELORE
To not know who is sitting at one table and also not know who is sitting at another table would
be a very haphazard mistake.

PATRICK FORT
For The Palm to be successful, it needs to keep doing what it’s always done. But the power
lunch might be outgrowing steakhouses. There’s so many more food options than when George
H.W. Bush first complained there were no good restaurants in D.C.

MIKE MELORE
This town has gone in the last 10 to 15 years from a, like you said, traditionally known as a
steakhouse town, to we’ve got everything. We have everything under the sun. We’ve got so
much good food. So much diversity in food.

RUTH TAM
The Italian restaurant Centrolina, where we went to meet Anna and Jake of Politico? It’s a really
good example of how the power lunch scene is changing. It’s bright, trendy. The floor plan is
really open. Traditional steakhouses on the other hand are dim and dark.

PATRICK FORT
So while the actual power lunch restaurant is changing - the very definition of power lunch is
changing too. Both for who eats it, and what they’re eating. That’s after the break

-----

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RUTH TAM
Official Washington -- politicos, lobbyists, whatever -- it may run on steakhouses. But that’s not
how many of us live and work. If you’re working around the clock or are part of the gig economy,
what are you eating during the day? In short: what’s a power lunch look like if you’re not a big
powerful executive or high-profile politician?

PATRICK FORT
We walked around Farragut Square, to ask some people what they were eating and what they
think a power lunch is.

PERSON 1
Probably like a salad or like a grain bowl or something like that.

PERSON 2
Power lunch? Something quick. Not filling but that will get you through the day.

PERSON 3
No I just sort of eat as fast as I can and get back to work, whatever’s around.

PATRICK FORT
Washington has grown, and like a lot of major cities that attract young people for internships or
their first jobs, it has a newer, faster take on power lunching. People eat for fuel, not to impress
their peers.

RUTH TAM
For younger generations, particularly if you’re a bit lower on the food chain, this power lunch is
quick. Economical. Time-sensitive. It’s a chopped salad that you order on your phone and pick
up at a counter minutes later. It’s maybe a juice cleanse made with fruit and vegetables that
have never known the tyranny of heat. It’s a protein bar. Whatever fuels you to work around the
clock.

PERSON 4
Sometimes I make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Sometimes I bring leftovers from the
night before.

RUTH TAM
Yeah I feel that. I had a bag of stolen chips for lunch.

PATRICK FORT
Yeah, who has the time to take two hours for lunch and drink three martinis? Not to mention a
steak in the middle of the day?!

PERSON 5
I try to avoid the power lunch whenever I can cause I have to power the rest of the day. So I’m
more of a chill lunch kind of guy.

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RUTH TAM
To an older generation in D.C., a power lunch means luxury. Leisure. It’s flashing a credit card
and impressing your guests.

PATRICK FORT
If you’re thinking, “Wow, I cannot relate to this,” you’re not alone. Even when power lunching like
this was the norm, it wasn’t without controversy. Until the ‘80s, you could write off 100 percent of
business meals from your taxes. When he was running for president in the ‘70s, Jimmy Carter
made this an issue on the campaign trail.

JIMMY CARTER
Jet airplanes, first class travel, the $50 martini lunch. The average working person can’t take
advantage of that.

PATRICK FORT
By the way, I put Jimmy Carter’s example of a $50 lunch into an internet inflation calculator.
That’s over $200 today.

RUTH TAM
Yikes! The government was fully subsidizing three martini lunches. But that tax break lost
popularity over time and now that deduction is capped at 50 percent.

PATRICK FORT
These days, even if you’re from an older generation, it doesn’t always make sense to power
lunch the way people used to. For example, there are ethics rules that keep elected officials
from using taxpayer dollars to wine and dine.

RUTH TAM
And let’s say you do this kind of thing above board. Eating prime rib with a lobbyist may not be
the best look for you, image-wise. Why do you think people running for office take their picture
at Ben’s Chili Bowl as opposed to BLT Steak? Being able to choose whether to power lunch the
traditional way or not demonstrates power too: the power to control your narrative.

PATRICK FORT
So does the traditional power lunch still exist in D.C.?

RUTH TAM
We talked to all those working people in Farragut Square. Not only were they skipping
steakhouses, they didn’t even view a power lunch as a steakhouse meal at all. They were like
“uhhhh, I’m eating leftover lasagna my boyfriend made,” or, “I’m eating a peanut butter and jelly
sandwich.”

PATRICK FORT

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I don’t know if either of these extremes, steakhouses or leftovers, say, “I’m powerful,” or, “I’m in
control.” But I admit, they do kind of say, “My work is really important to me.” And what are
Washingtonians if not workaholics?

RUTH TAM
I might also point out that even when we were power lunching at Centrolina, no one ordered a
steak cause red meat was not really a thing on that menu. We ordered fish! Anna ordered a
salad!

JAKE SHERMAN
Who the hell wants to have a big steak at like, noon, you know? Not me.

ANNA PALMER
A lot of those restaurants changed their menu to adapt to the new style. A lot more fish is
offered. A lot more salads.

PATRICK FORT
What do you think my branzino said about me?

RUTH TAM
Maybe you needed a power-up to produce this episode instead of passing out midday for a nap.

PATRICK FORT
You know me too well.

[theme music]

PATRICK FORT
That’s it! That’s the end of the first season of Dish City! The show is produced by me, Patrick
Fort.

RUTH TAM
And me, Ruth Tam. If you wanna talk to us online, we’re on Twitter and Instagram, @DishCity.
And our email is dishcity@wamu.org.

PATRICK FORT
If you wanna talk to us in person, we hang out at local bars and restaurants the Tuesday after
each episode drops. This Tuesday, October 29, we’ll be posting up at Hawk ‘n’ Dove on Capitol
Hill It’s your last chance dance to hang out IRL.

RUTH TAM
We’ll be there from 6-8 pm, you can find details at dishcity.org/sidedish.

PATRICK FORT

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Like we said at the beginning of the show, we want your feedback about Dish City! What did you
like? What did you hate? We want to know. Click the link in the episode notes. It’ll take just a
minute of your time and your thoughts mean so much.

RUTH TAM
Shout out to our team at WAMU and beyond. Our editor is Poncie Rutsch and our associate
producer is Julia Karron.

PATRICK FORT
Our theme music is by Daniel Peterschmidt and Steve Lack and Ben Privot mixed the show.
WAMU’s general manager is JJ Yore and Andi McDaniel oversees all of the content that we
make here.

RUTH TAM
If you loved Dish City, write us a review in the app you use. It’ll help new listeners find our show,
and who knows, maybe we’ll get to make more episodes too.

PATRICK FORT
Bye, we love you!

RUTH TAM
Bye!

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