Copyright  Robbins-Madanes Training

Module 1 – Lyndsey Film

Film Transcript

CM Cloe Madanes
Tony Anthony Robbins
Lyndsey
Jason
Audience

CM: Have you ever made a dreadful mistake in your life or in your business that still haunts you
today? Have you ever been plagued by guilt, regret, remorse, and the feeling that you can never
make amends for what you have done? Even with the best optimistic attitude and great work
habits it can be difficult to face the losses that were incurred in the past. In this film you will
meet a woman who was facing a terrible mistake that had put her family in financial jeopardy. In
a little more than an hour she had a new understanding of how to tap into the greatest source of
strength in her life so that she can face each day with courage, determination, and love. You will
also see how it is possible to change a relationship by changing one person.

Our story begins at an Anthony Robbins seminar of nearly 3,000 people. Tony has just been
talking about the spheres of life. Most people have three major spheres of life: yourself, your
work, and your relationships, and most people focus mainly on one of these spheres, a little bit
on the second sphere, and only a minimal amount on the third sphere of your life and activity.
Tony asked participants to stand up and say in what order they have prioritized their spheres.
Lyndsey stood up to share.

Tony: Tell us what were your spheres, what was focus within them, what’s the cost and what to
do they need to be, how’s it going to change your life for the better? How about this lady right
back here? Yes, ma’am. Give her a hand.

[audience cheers]

Tony: What’s your name, where are you from?

Lyndsey: Lyndsey and I’m from Brisbon.

Tony: Lyndsey! Alright. Lyndsey, tell us: what were your spheres, what were you focused on
within the spheres, what’s been the price?

Lyndsey: Um, my spheres I think were equal in what I’d say my work, my relationship would be
the smallest part, and my other...

Tony: Wait, your work and?

Lyndsey: My work and myself.

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Tony: OK, were equal?

Lyndsey: I think so.

Tony: OK.
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Lyndsey: Yea. And my relationship’s I think the smaller, you know the little dot down below.

Tony: OK. And what’s been, what have you been trying to get through the work? What needs
were you trying to meet primarily at the top of your work and your self?

Lyndsey: Um, I have had a very sever gambling problem over a number of years. Um, I
managed to kick the habit of that about twelve months ago but unfortunately I’ve been left with
enormous amounts of debt. [her voice trembling] For me to get rid of the debt I need to work.

Tony: OK. So now we have what the real challenge is. You are really working for what need,
then?

Lyndsey: For me I think. Um...

Tony: No, but which need? Connection and love, growth, contribution, certainty, variety,
significance, what’s the main reason you’re working?

CM: According to human needs psychology, all human motivation can be explained as the desire
to meet one or more of six primary human needs. These are certainty: the need for stability,
safety, and comfort, variety: the need for stimulus and change, significance: the need to be
special and worthy of attention, connection and love: the need for connection with others and
ultimately to love and be loved, growth: the need to develop and expand, and contribution: the
need to give beyond yourself. In order to understand any behavior, whether it is someone else’s
behavior or your own, it is important to understand which need you are trying to meet. For
instance, it is one thing to try to make money out of a craving for certainty and safety, and it is a
very different thing to try to make money out of the sense of contribution and growth. Tony is
asking Lyndsey to understand some of the motivations in her life right now.

Lyndsey: I’d say to re-establish the connection and love with those I’ve hurt.

Tony: OK. So you’re working to re-establish it, that’s what’s behind it, but when you think about
going to work, mostly you’re thinking about making money so that you can do well enough to re-
establish that, is that right?

Lyndsey: Um, sort of, but I think mainly I just feel, um, through the days of gambling I’ve
managed to get rid of the habit itself but the hurt that all the baggage I have left is the debt that’s
behind. So I used to smoke a lot and I used to drink a lot when I gambled as well, both of which
happily I’ve kicked the habits of also, but the one thing...

Tony: Give her a hand for that.

[audience cheers]

CM: Lyndsey shows her strength as she explains that she got rid of her gambling, smoking, and
drinking habits but she is tearful as she talks about her baggage: the heavy debt that she carries.

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As Lyndsey offers the word baggage as a metaphor that symbolizes her problem, Tony will use
metaphors and symbols to transform Lyndsey and her relationship with her husband.
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Lyndsey: The one thing that I have left is the debt and that’s just a constant reminder to me of
always. It doesn’t matter how much I look to my future, I consistently have this bag that I carry
around with me so I can focus on my work to try and free myself of the bag that I have carrying
around with me.

Tony: Well what if you put the bag down?

Lyndsey: Life wouldn’t be as heavy.

Tony: And what if you took the bag and you put it into a little rocket and you shot it into the
sun?

Lyndsey: [laughing] Um, yea, that’d get rid of the bag.

Tony: [laughing] Yea. And after that’s happened, tell me what happens when you walk outside?

Lyndsey: Um, the world’s a lot nicer place, life isn’t so tough, it’s not so stressful.

Tony: And how does work feel now?

Lyndsey: Work’s actually always felt great. I love what I do.

Tony: Oh.

Lyndsey: I honestly enjoy what I do. I’m blessed to know that what I can do I can earn money
from but I really do sincerely enjoy what I do, that’s not, it’s not difficult at all what I do work
wise.

CM: A moment ago Lyndsey tearfully expressed her pain at having to work to pay off her debt,
the bag that she carried. Tony gave her three metaphorical ways of getting rid of the bag and
now Lyndsey cheerfully explains that she loves her work and that it’s not difficult at all. Such is
the power of metaphor. A metaphor is a word or a phrase that represents one thing while
symbolizing something else. Metaphors have a powerful influence on the unconscious mind so a
bag can be simply a bag or it can symbolize a heavy debt. The imaginary act of setting down the
bag or shooting it into space symbolizes getting rid of the suffering caused by the debt. As
Lyndsey imagines getting rid of the bag, meaning the suffering, she can experience the love that
she actually has for her work.

Tony: I want to ask you that are watching, did something just happen? You might think it’s a
little word game but it wasn’t. Watch what just happened. Right now her reason for working
just changed. True or false? Could you feel it? Could you see it? [to Lindsay] Can you feel it?

Lyndsey: Yeah, definitely.

Tony: Now how did that happen that fast? The problem hasn’t gone away, just the bag. The
heavy bag she’s dragging along. Now, what I’m doing with her right now, just so you know is

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remember I said your subconscious mind is the most powerful one of all, and I’ll give you a clue.
The brain responds to symbols or metaphors more powerfully than anything. What’s more
powerful?

Lyndsey: The word Nazi or the swastika?

Tony: The word. Christ or the cross? Now here’s the problem. We feel in our bodies whatever
we represent in our brains and she’s representing all of her pain attached to one metaphor called
the luggage, the baggage, the heavy bag she’s dragging along and as long as she’s focused on
that, she can’t actually notice that this has all been a gift because she actually loves her
work. It actually makes her feel alive. The truth of the matter is she got all this from God so that
she would go back to what she loves and feel productive and feel like there was something she
could give on a daily basis, even when her children are going through the problems they’re going
through. Oh yes, I know who you are.

[audience laughs]

Tony: You have a child with cerebral palsy, right? [Lyndsey tearfully nods yes] Another one with
something else, I don’t remember. What is it? Cerebral palsy...

Lyndsey: Um, and my oldest daughter’s got cerebral palsy and autism.

Tony: And autism. Well that would make you probably want a place to escape since love is what
you’re really about and you probably feel like there’s nothing you could do.

CM: Tony knew from the information provided by Lyndsey before the event that she had two
daughters: one with cerebral palsy and one with cerebral palsy and autism. From the brief
interchange with Lyndsey he knew that her most important human need was for love and he
understood her terrible pain in feeling that there was nothing she could do for her daughters.

Tony: ‘Cause pain is when your life conditions don’t match your model of the world but suffering
comes when your life conditions don’t match your model of the world and you feel powerless to
change it.

CM: Lyndsey’s pain comes from having two daughters who are so sick. That was not what she
had expected from life. It was not her model of the world. Tony makes the distinction between
pain and suffering. Pain is a fact of life, it is the experience of hurt. Suffering comes from feeling
powerless to stop the pain, to change it. Pain is inevitable but suffering is not. Suffering is
optional. We can always do something to change the pain, even if only in small ways. Everything
in the world is constantly changing and so the nature of pain changes also.

Tony: I understand suffering at all levels, and I understand your specific suffering and it’s time
to stop suffering. It’s time to give your daughters what they deserve, which is a Mama who
knows there is a plan bigger than their understanding of what’s going on. And then autism,
cerebral palsy, all those pieces, that you still do make a difference for them ‘cause love is the only
thing they really need and you are a lover. And when you go to work you can express it that place
and when you come home you can let that work where you feel filled up ‘cause you know you’ve
done something that’s contributed and been alive, you can take that home to your daughters and
you can give them that love they need at whatever level it is, and you can trust that force is
significant, even though they still have pain.

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CM: Tony points out that Lyndsey is not powerless with regard to her daughters. She is powerful
in easing her pain through her love.

Tony: If you were to do that then the bag, [Lyndsey smiles] that’s right, that blew up and
vaporized, you’d hike that off your shoulder and you’d walk a hell of a lot taller and you’d think,
“God must really know I’m a force of nature to give me these daughters and know that in spite of
everything, I’m still gonna love, I’m gonna grow, I’m gonna expand, and there’s plenty of proof. I
tried to deaden the pain through the distraction of gambling, through alcohol, through
cigarettes, changing my physiology, none of it worked because God had a bigger plan
for me and the plan for me is work, grow, expand who I am so there’s more of me as I grow to
give to those I love, and I am more than enough. I was put here at this time for this reason and
even though it may not look like it’s magical and the way I think it should be, if I can’t change
the environment then I’ve gotta change my model of the world and I have to find an empowering
meaning and your vibrancy and your gift will be your ability to step out of your own pain. That
doesn’t mean not to feel it, but to not stay in that pain, and to use that pain as drive to give more
to those you love.

CM: Tony first helped Lyndsey to metaphorically get rid of her bag, then he acknowledged the
power of her love. Now he moves to give Lyndsey a new meaning in life where love and
contribution to others will be her strength and her gift.

Tony: And the more you do that, that’s where spiritual growth happens ‘cause spiritual growth is
when you start out focused only on yourself, and that’s when you’ll be miserable, and then you’ll
care about people around you ‘cause they can give you pain or pleasure, their hurts are your
hurts, and eventually you care about everybody including people that are supposedly strangers
and you really care about them, not ‘cause they can give you pain or pleasure but because you
know that we’re all here for a reason and a purpose and it serves us and it’s our job to find the
empowering meaning of why we’re here. If you find that, life is magical and suffering stops.
Remember, pain is part of life. It’s a good thing. The pain that digs inside of you, this deep, deep,
deep pain opens a well. Your job is what are you going to fill it up with, love or fear? Resentment
and anger or gratitude knowing that even though you don’t understand it, there’s a faith inside
you that says there’s something beautiful that can come from this. There’s more inside of me
because of this.

CM: There is always a choice to be made. Pain can result in resentment and anger or it can bring
out strength, love, and spiritual fulfillment.

Tony: Maybe I’m only talking to you because if people believe that then their subconscious is
totally open for me to penetrate them. ‘Cause everybody in this room has had suffering, suffering
of various kinds, suffering happens when you think the way life’s supposed to be is not the way it
is, especially if something outside your control has f[bleep]ed it up.

CM: Through his conversation with Lyndsey, Tony is influencing everyone in the room to make
the best of their challenges and of the pain that is an inevitable part of living.

Tony: But if you’re the woman you’re made to be, if you’re the man you’re made to be, then
you’ll suck it up, get out of that suffering, stop feeling sorry for yourself and step up and do
what’s necessary now so that the gifts that God has given you the f[bleep] up. Not the story, not
the excuse, not the bad feelings. Life is hard at times. Pain is part of life; suffering is an option.
Pain’s a damn good thing if you use it. So what are you feeling now, my dear?

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Lyndsey: I always feel that I have stepped up to the plate for my kids.

Tony: Yes.
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Lyndsey: I have no doubt that I have. I mean, they are everything to me, but I’m tired of doing it.

Tony: Yes, I know.

Lyndsey: [tearfully] I, I’ve had enough.

Tony: You’ve had love.

Lyndsey: No, I’ve had enough.

Tony: You’ve had enough...

Lyndsey: I think. Um... I can appreciate that life is full of challenges and I appreciate that I’ve
been put here on Earth for a purpose and I accept that, but there comes a time when enough is
enough.

Tony: I agree. Enough gambling, enough smoking, enough drinking, enough blaming yourself.

Lyndsey: Not at all. I don’t, I don’t... Yeah, perhaps.

Tony: [laughs, Lyndsey laughs too] Give her a hand for that.

[Audience applauds]

CM: When Lyndsey says, “enough is enough,” she is referring to her pain and her suffering in
relation to her daughters and her loneliness in relation to her husband. Tony brings Lyndsey
back to her strengths by turning around what she said to mean that she had had enough of
smoking, drinking, and gambling. In this way he reminds her of her strength in quitting these
activities, which is also the strength she needs to help her daughters and to change her husband.
Tony laughs with Lyndsey as she realizes that Tony once more broke her pattern of suffering by
referring to her bad habits instead of her daughters’ illnesses or her husband’s shortcomings.

Tony: Logically she knows it’s not her. Logically I know it’s not me. But, because you are a lover
and because you are conscious and because you care, you take a level of responsibility that feels
inhuman. That’s what has to stop. Not the love of your children. Not the having to support them
‘cause even though it’s a pain, it’s difficult, it’s overwhelming, it seems like you can’t win, God
wouldn’t give you the challenge if you weren’t strong enough to make it happen. ‘Cause if you
don’t believe in God believe in dog and become dyslexic. [Lyndsey laughs] And as the dyslexia
begins to shift you, dyslexia gives the ability to see things reversed, doesn’t it? When somebody
has dyslexia, what’s supposed to be in the front goes in the back, what’s in the back
goes in the front or letters reverse. You know what I mean? Sometimes it’s useful to be dyslexic,
it makes you more creative. You know, there’s an old story that I’m sure you’ve heard of
regardless of your religion, it’s a story of Saul de Paul. Saul doesn’t believe there’s anything in
life more significant than Saul and one day God steps down and knocks his [bleep] off his horse
and blinds him for several days just to get his full attention, and suddenly he begins to realize
that life is about love and not about significance. It’s not certain ‘cause who knows what’s gonna
happen tomorrow? You may think you know what’s gonna happen tomorrow. You don’t have a

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clue. Life could change like that [snaps fingers]. Everything you think is so important could
change like that [snaps fingers]. So maybe what you’ve gotta do is what’s everlasting that you
can experience which is giving your gift of love. Not getting it, giving it, ‘cause when you give it
you get to feel it and then it’s guaranteed whether somebody returns it or not. So I appreciate
your honesty where you caught yourself. So what has to stop is the blaming that you do
subconsciously that you use then to punish yourself. The punishment has to stop. The bag is
vaporized. So now what do we do, Lyndsey?

CM: Tony is using a confusion technique. He talks about God and dog, then about dyslexia and
Saul de Paul in a way that is confusing and difficult to understand. By confusing her he gets
Lyndsey’s full attention. In trying to grasp the meaning of what Tony’s trying to say, she is ready
to accept his first clear message and that message is that there is a difference between wanting to
get love and wanting to give it and that love is really about giving, not about getting. Now Tony is
ready to ask Lyndsey the question that leads to real change. What is she going to do?

Tony: So now what do we do, Lyndsey?

Lyndsey: I need my husband to step up to the plate more. I feel that at times if I don’t do what it
takes to make things happen, who is, and I’m not the sort of person that, I really don’t believe
that I shoulder the burden willingly all the time but if I sat at the back and hoped that life would
take its course for say Chloe, for example, and that life would work out well for her, she’d still be
fighting the battles that she was a number of years ago.

CM: Chloe is the name of Lyndsey’s daughter who suffers from cerebral palsy.

Lyndsey: I just feel that I’m consistently battling not only with, um, you know, education boards,
doctors, et cetera, et cetera, but I’m battling with my own family, who in turn don’t step up to
the plate, specifically my husband and I’m really very tired of that also because I don’t feel that I
—not that I dislike being the one to have to get out there and fight for her. But to have someone
to go along that path with you and to share it, to me, would half it. Whereas, for me having to be
the one to do it all the time, I also feel that it put up and enormous wall between my husband
and myself because if I don’t focus on what needs to happen to my children, then I push—I do
push him toone side because my focus totally is on making sure I get the most that I can for my
kids and I don’t see anyone else doing that for me so I don’t quite know how to step back and not
make that happen because it won’t happen if someone doesn’t make it happen.

Tony: Let me ask you a question. When’s the last time you blew him?

CM: Tony uses shocking language to break Lyndsey’s pattern of complaining and self-pity. If he
had said something like “When was the last time you told your husband that you loved him?”, he
would not have been nearly as effective in getting Lyndsey’s full attention as well as the attention
of the large group. Just as the baggage symbolizes the dead, blowing the husband symbolizes
loving him. Nevertheless, Lyndsey continues for a while in the same tone of voice.

Lyndsey: Oh, ages ago. Yeah. At times I can’t stand the man, and I’m very honest with that like I
have—I have no doubt that he loves me, but he tells me so and I’ve kind of tried to wait [pauses
abruptly] Maybe I doubt at times, um, because I—I just—there are a lot of issues related to
gambling and sex where he used to trade sex and I would go gambling, which to me, so I do
harbor a real underlying something there that, to me, sex isn’t something that’s beautiful, it’s not
something that’s meant to happen, it’s a trade. And you don’t trade that.

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Tony: Yes, I know. You’re supposed to just give it.

Lyndsey: [almost laughs and nods] Yeah, true.

CM: In talking about sex, Tony once again emphasizes giving. The issue is to give long versus
getting it. This makes Lyndsey thoughtful. Giving her family’s situation, Lyndsey’s life is likely to
remain difficult, but there is a resource in her life which is currently a weakness that could
become the source of greatest strength; her relationship with her husband. Tony’s goal at this
point is to help Lyndsey to be able to reach out to her husband for comfort, companionship, and
love so that when her life gets tough, they can ride it out together.

Tony: Now, some of you think it’s about her.

Lyndsey: [laughs]

Tony: Some of you think it’s about him. [pause] And some of you are beginning to remember
that the way we learn best in life throughout humanity’s history through stories, because when
you’re listening to a story you make connections that you’re unaware of [pause] within yourself.
So remember that I am only speaking to her right now. I asked you when the last time you blew
him was and you said it’s been a long time. You told me that he says he loves you but you doubt
it, honestly, because you harbor resentment that if you gave him sex he would let you do
anything you want including gamble. This is not surprising for any man because, once a man has
had sex he is vulnerable to anything.

Lyndsey: [laughs]

Tony: [laughing] He will give anything. [Serious again] But, that does not mean he was trading
sex for gambling. It sounds like you were person trading sex for gambling.

Lyndsey: And that could well be so. I suppose I’ve looked at that aspect of things and in all
honesty I can’t get my head around the fact that, in many ways, that he just didn’t see it’s not
normal in a relationship for someone to be going out to the casino gambling for or five times a
week and I really do, um, I’m very angry at him for not having been there and even tried to
intervene when I didn’t hide the fact of where I was going. I never lied to him. I didn’t say I’m
going A and go B. It was very obvious that that’s where I was going, so, you know—

Tony: Well, let me ask two questions ‘cause I hear you, but I just want to make sure I ask you a
couple of questions. The first question is, in this culture—because I don’t live in this culture, well
that’s not true because I live in Mermaid Beach. I’m here for five, six weeks out of the year,
‘cause I love the place. But I’ve never been in a culture where I’ve heard people say “I’ll betcha”
so often.

[audience and Lyndsey laugh]

I’ve never lived in a culture where everybody stops what they’re doing to watch a horse race.

[audience cheers]

So one consideration is for a masculine male in this culture—females as well, but I’m asking a
male for sure— betting, is a huge part of this culture, true or false?

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Audience and Lyndsey: True

Tony: So the first seduction is that. The second piece is, if you were to step out of your husband,
because I don’t know him, but I know him males. I can tell you something about males that
ladies in this room many don’t really know, understand, or appreciate. Just like men don’t
understand how important attention is to a woman. Really how important it is. Not attention
with one eyeball on the TV and one going over here to say hello. But real, total, nothing else but
you attention like you crave. Women don’t understand what drives a man. They think it’s sex
and they’re so wrong. What it is, is feeling like they’re significant enough to you that you will
open to them. That you will open and be completely vulnerable. It fucks a man’s mind up
because sex is the ultimate experience of him saying “You really love me ‘cause you’ve opened
and are vulnerable to me. You’re not finding with me, you’re open to me completely in every
damn way and that excites you and makes you happy”. ‘Cause ultimately what makes you light
up—and you know what, ladies, I’ll give you a simple test it’s not hard to figure out, is he wants
to make happy. He’ll die to make you happy if he loves you. Now, men do not try to make happy
a woman who they feel they cannot make happy. Because, let me explain something to you
ladies. Making you happy makes him feel he’s a man. Failing to is like cancer. He might as well
be dead. That ‘s why most men, and men—ladies, I know you this is true, but I’ll ask the men
and men I want you to be dirt honest. How many men, no matter what you like—women say “oh
you like breasts, you like rears, you like legs, you like whatever”—how many men here think
there’s no question, no matter what a woman looks like, if she’s happy, if she’s smiling at you,
you’re fucked up. How many men can agree with this? Say “I”. [audience cheers, many hands go
up]

Lyndsey: [laughs]

Tony: Gentlemen if you agree a woman’s smile is the sexiest thing about her, say “I.”
[male voices in audience answer, “I”]

Have you heard the voices? They’re not bullshitting you. In fact, there could be a can look at her
first ‘cause she seems so sexy and he may keep looking, but there’s a part of him that starts to
shift if he sees that she really isn’t happy. And if he thinks she’s happy, he like makes it up, his
biochemistry takes over and he’s with her for a period of time, the reason he wants to get out of
there, is he discovers he was wrong. But if he can make you happy, a man lights up like a
Christmas tree. Now, most men don’t know how to make a woman happy and because there are
times when a woman does not want to be happy. True or false, ladies? She doesn’t want you to
make her happy, she wants you to understand. She wants you to appreciate; she wants you to
feel her pain. Now you don’t understand men’s whole job is cut the pain off and move forward.
[audience laughs] ‘Cause here’s what women do: women energy, feminine energy takes little shit
and makes it as big as possible. And masculine energy takes big shit and pretends it’s really
small. [audience and Lyndsey laugh] True or false?

Audience and Lyndsey: True

Tony: Alright, that’s what it’s about. [audience cheers] So if you want the truth instead of you’re
anger then I can tell you the truth that I know because I’ve been with three million people both
male and female. I can be an idiot and I’d have to know this because there aren’t that many
patterns. This man wants to make you happy. He wants to feel needed and desired by you. When
you have sex with him and desire him and everything else when he feels lit up like “Oh my god
she wants me! What do you want? Anything, I want you to be happy!” So gambling, I’ll betchya,
this culture, go for it! It lights you up it makes you happy. You’re not happy all the time. How

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could you be happy with all this shit in your life? So if you can get a little escape and go bet, and
it makes you happy and it makes things better, why not? It wasn’t ‘cause he didn’t give a fuck
about you. It wasn’t ‘cause he didn’t care. And he was not responsible to know what the fuck was
going on inside you even though you want him to. ‘Cause if you’re a woman you expect a man
knows everything you’re thinking. And they’re like “I’m not a mind reader!”

[audience and Lyndsey laugh]

CM: Tony explains Lyndsey’s husband’s point of view. He just wants to make her happy.
Lyndsey’s smile shows that she knows that that’s true.

Tony: Because, see, women can use a hint of a voice or, if you say to a man “do you want help
this?” and he says “no” he means “no”!

[audience laughs]

Tony: And if you start to help he’s going to look at you like “What is the matter with you? I can
handle this.” But if you ask a woman “you want help with this?” and she says “no” it means “yes
you stupid fuck!” [audience laughs and cheers] And if you go “oh, she said no” and go off now,
she’s like “he doesn’t give a fuck about me!”

[audience and Lyndsey laugh]

Tony: True or false, ladies? Make some noise!

[audience cheers]

Lyndsey: True.

Tony: I didn’t know that as a man, my job was to become Sherlock Holmes. That your job is to
be a detective because women are always leaving clues. Now they get pissed, like you are
[pointing at Lyndsey] ‘cause you think, “Any woman would have figured out that I needed
somebody to intervene here and that I’m out of control!” [audience cheers] But I think, “Oh,
she’s gambling and she’s happy. I love her and she’s happy, this is beautiful! Well, it’s kind of
tough on the family. It’s tough on me, too, but if it makes her happy that’s much better than the
cancer of unhappiness that we have to deal with ‘cause god gave us some kids that really have
huge physical problems that, god we have to fight every day in. Let her escape. I’d like to escape,
too. I love her. And if she’d just blow me every now and then it would be a whole different
experience!”

[audience and Lyndsey laugh]

Tony: But now, you don’t suck his cock.

CM: Tony again refers to oral sex in a funny, outrageous way in the same sentence as he’s talking
about the serious problems of the daughters. Lyndsey’s laughter shows that she’s broken her
pattern of misery once more and is opening new possibilities with her husband.

Tony: And you say, “I don’t know if he doesn’t love me,” and I can promise you that he’s saying,
[looking down at self] “I don’t know if she doesn’t love me either.” [audience laughs] “I want to
make her happy, but now I can’t even get her to gamble. What do we do?” He doesn’t know

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you’re carrying luggage around. He thinks you’re just going to work. ‘Cause for him, work is an
escape. Work is a place to feel certain and significant ‘cause he doesn’t feel significant with you.
He can’t significantly change how you feel. He can’t do anything for his kids that really seems
lasting. So, he’s impotent. He feels emasculated. So, he might do really stupid things that you
can’t understand like take control of you or say something stupid ‘cause he feels like you make
him feel insignificant all the time. And he had this problem before you met him, by the way, just
like you had the problem before you met him. Yes, you did and yes, he did. Not this problem.
Not the story of controlling behavior or lack of attention or not doing what’s there, the problem
of putting significance above love. Let me give you an example so you’ll know what I’m talking
about. Everyone in this room has times in their life when they go into what I call a crazy eight.
Please pay attention and you’ll understand your life in a different way if you really listen right
now. Here’s what a crazy eight is. There are two extreme emotions human beings feel. One side
of that plate is things like feeling sad, depressed, lonely, not understood... How many get the feel
of the type of emotion I’m talking about? Different words, same feeling. Raise your hand and say
what I’m talking about here. Say, “I.” [audience: I] The other side of the crazy eight is emotions
like frustration, anger, resentment, maybe even rage. Now most human beings trigger an
interesting response when they feel out of control, when they feel powerless to change
something. Their husband or wife, their children, their body, their work, their boss... Right?
Their addiction. And when you feel out of control, what people do is they go in a crazy eight, and
what that does is they go to one of these emotions then the other, and which one they go to, they
go first sad and depressed, lonely, or whether they first go frustrated, angry, pissed off, has more
to do with which needs have they learned to value. Significance and certainty, even though they
want love?

If it’s significance they value, which emotion is going to fulfill that faster? Feeling certain and
significant. When you’re feeling insignificant and uncertain, which one, sad or angry? Quick,
which one? Which one? [audience responds “angry”] And on a zero to ten, how high will you get
that significance back? Zero to ten, where’s it going to go? Ten. Certainty: how high? Ten. And
how fast can you get it when you get pissed off? [snaps fingers] And you just witnessed her do it
talking about him.

CM: Lyndsey started out the conversation talking about her tremendous burden of guilt for
gambling her way into debt, but once she started talking about her relationship with her
husband, she quickly started blaming him for not stopping her when she was out of control. This
anger is a way for her to meet her need for certainty and significance in the very moment that
she feels most insignificant, when she’s feeling regret over her past addictions. This kind of
paradoxical blaming is most often seen in intimate relationships where you blame your partner
for your own mistakes and defects precisely because your partner is supposed to be there for you
and take care of you.

The next time you feel like blaming someone close to you, ask yourself: which of the six human
needs am I trying to meet right now? Usually anger serves to meet your need for significance
and certainty, precisely in the situations where you feel most insignificant and uncertain. Ask
yourself: what thought am I having that is making me feel insignificant and uncertain? If you
can understand exactly why you’re getting angry, you can take responsibility for the real reason
why you’re blaming your partner. Now Tony will explain to Lyndsey why she only goes to anger
as a second choice.

Tony: Did you see that? But she didn’t start there ‘cause she didn’t go there first. You know why?
‘Cause she doesn’t value significance most, she values love most. So people who value love most
and connection tend to go to sadness first. Right? They feel sad because oh my God, I’m not

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understood, or I feel alone, or I can’t do anything, or I’m not good enough, or blaming
themselves for the problems in their life. And so here’s what happens. They feel sad and
depressed and what needs do they get? Connection with them-self ‘cause they’re usually busy
taking care of everybody else. Right, Lyndsey? Taking care of everybody else. Am I right?

Lyndsey: Yep, that’s right.

� © 2009 ��������������������������
Tony: So she takes care of everybody else but she does it for a reason, ‘cause it gives her a sense
of connection and love and meaning and significance but through the filter of connection. But
when it doesn’t feel like it’s significant, I feel sad so I feel connection with myself ‘cause I’m
normally taking care of everyone else. Now I feel for myself, I feel sorry, I feel sad, I might feel
lonely. It’s variety ‘cause it’s a different state that I’m in when I’m taking care of everybody else.
But you know what? If you had somebody right here sitting on the stage right now and they are
crying uncontrollably and I do nothing, I have no talent, no ability, nothing, all I do is just stand
there and listen, will they eventually stop crying, yes or no? Yes or no? Yes, because the human
body needs variety, it needs variation. So after a while a person gets tired of feeling sad, they feel
tired of feeling connected and they feel tired of feeling uncertain and they feel tired of feeling
insignificant. You know what they do? They go, “I’m not settling for this shit anymore. You know
what? He should have seen that. He shouldn’t be doing that. She shouldn’t be doing that. God
shouldn’t have done this to me. This is bullshit!” And now the person gets pissed off or
frustrated or angry or rageful, and what do they get? Significance at a ten. Get it? Certainty at a
ten and even some connection with them-self at a ten. But if you leave someone up here and
they’re screaming with rage and saying, “F[bleep] you, I hate you, you son of a b[bleep],” and
you don’t do anything but stand there and listen, will they eventually stop being angry? Yes or
no. [audience answers “yes”] Why? ‘Cause the human nervous system needs variety to survive.
And by the way, when you’re pissed off and angry, what are the muscles in your body like? Are
they tight or weak, which one? Is the energy strong or relaxed? So you’ve got tension and
pressure in your body which feels really good when you feel like you’ve been hurting and a
victim for a long time but after a while I don’t care what you do, the body has got to let go, so
what happens? You come out, let go of the anger. See what the person does? They go, “It’s really
just helpless, it’s hopeless and it’ll never work and no one understands...” and you go back to
feeling sad and guess what happens. All the tension... Think about it. When you’re feeling sad,
when you’re crying, when you’re feeling, you know, alone, what happens to the energy in your
body? All the muscles relax. Doesn’t it? Everything lets go. Even though it doesn’t feel good, it
lets go. You connect with yourself. You feel that feeling again, it’s variety, and after a while you
get tired of feeling that way and you get pissed off again, and you get tired of feeling pissed off
and you get sad, and pissed off and sad, and pissed off and sad, and pissed off and sad. How
many of you here have done this in your life? Raise your hand and say, “I.” And when had this
happened? When you had the illusion that you have no control.

CM: Tony is really explaining to Lyndsey the pattern that caused her to get addicted to
gambling, drinking, and smoking. She had been caring for her daughters whose medical
conditions were so severe it was hard to feel that any help was ever enough. This thought made
her feel so insignificant and uncertain that she would snap out of the mode of caring and
nurturing and into anger and frustration. In order to escape from that crazy eight pattern she
would go gambling or drinking which changed her physiology and her environment. Now, long
after
her gambling problem is over, Lyndsey still has a crazy eight pattern where she goes from guilt
and regret over her gambling to anger and blaming her husband for not helping her to stop it.

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Now take a moment to ask yourself: when you feel that things are out of your control, which side
of the crazy eight do you go to first- the side with anger and frustration or the side with sadness
and self-pity?
009 ������������������������
Tony: How many follow this? Now which side... It isn’t an equal side. Some of you spend more
time on the pissed off side. And while you’re there, you say things to your partner or your friends
that they don’t forget. And they feel insignificant so now they try and show you they have
control, they have certainty and significance, and it starts... Imagine two crazy people getting
together. That’s what you have. And you think it’s them because it’s so easy to see them. But you
really love each other and that really f[bleep]s things up. Maybe you have children together, that
f[bleep]s it up. See, you get two crazy people together and you have total f[bleep]ing craziness.
[adience laughs] ‘Cause then you both get angry and say sh[bleep] that then you both go feel
hurt about and then maybe you get off- one’s sad, one’s angry... Who knows what the f[bleep]’s
happening. Now how do you get out of this? Most people get out of this the way you used to.
Here’s what you would do in the insanity of it all. You would exit going down by using something
to distract yourself ‘cause when you focus on something else, this all disappears, or, you do
something with your physiology. Drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, it changes you. You did both.
You went gambling and that gets you to exit it. But, as soon as you come home, pretty quickly
you’re back in one of these two and if significance is what you want you’ll find reasons to get
angry and in your case it’s connection and love, aloneness, but you get back into this.
There’s a better way out and that’s up and the way up is change your f[bleep]ing model of the
world. Change your God damned roles. Stop your addiction to one side of this or the other. Stop
thinking it’s your partner when it’s you. You’re so busy saying, “I don’t know if he loves me.” I
can promise you he has the same thoughts about you towards him. I can promise you he’s going
through the same crazy eight. Now, I don’t know if he tends to get more angry, that’s my guess,
and I’m only guessing because you’d probably be attracted the fact that he has strength since
love is what you want. So at one stage my guess is he was strong and now you’re pissed because
he’s not ‘cause he’s probably, the anger thing hasn’t worked and he’s probably sad. Who knows
where the [bleep] he is now but he’s crazy. [pause] Any truth in anything I just said?

Lyndsey: Um, yeah, I’d say you’re pretty right. [audience laughs]

Tony: In what way?

Lyndsey: I’d say—he’s actually said to me that he doesn’t know really what to do. Like he kind of
feels that it doesn’t seem to matter which way he goes, it’s never right. I can honestly say that I
don’t mean it to be that way.

Tony: I know you don’t.

Lyndsey: But it’s like I don’t know which way to go either. Like I feel like I’m, yea, like I’m in that
crazy eight. That sums it up for me, I think, where I just go from one extreme to the other.

Tony: That’s right. And by the way, have you seen her to do that while she’s been standing in this
time? Yes or no? Which one did she start out in, anger or sadness, which one? Sadness and after
we got rid of the sadness, that opened it up so that she could get pissed, did you see that? Like
we actually got her where she was feeling happy but that wasn’t enough because she still has all
the energy in her body from the anger in her past. So now that she’s not crying there’s a space to
get pissed off. Now when that happens with him, he won’t understand. He’s like, “I thought she
was happy, now she’s pissed, I haven’t done anything!” [audience laughs] How many

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guys have had this experience? Raise your hand, say “I!” [male voices in audience: I] You’re
right, you haven’t done anything, she’s just gonna do it. It’s a storm. You didn’t do anything for
the storm either. But you better not run when the storm comes ‘cause then she’ll go, “You
weren’t there for me!” and then there will be another storm. So all this is a lesson in meaning.
It’s understanding that this is really your addiction, not your partner’s. If you get out of yourself,
if you really did what you’re best at and filled this guy up and made him feel happy that you’re
happy and that you love him, which can be expressed physically and emotionally and verbally,
he wont believe it at first ‘cause he’s scared.

[Lyndsey laughs]

Tony: You know it’s true, that’s why you laughed your [bleep] off just now. So then you’ll be
pissed off going, “So here I was, happy and nice.” And for a minute, after years of him not being
sure, now if you went to go blow him he’d be like, “Was this part of the seminar?” [audience
laughs] “It’s a technique! She’s doing it to manipulate me! That Robbins guy...” Right? He’s not
gonna trust ‘cause it’s gonna take consistency.

CM: Tony is now very clear and directive in orienting Lyndsey to focus on giving love to her
husband and the happiness that can come from that.

Tony: Or she’s making this huge. I need to stand here and love her and be with her and let he
keep feeling and feeling and feeling and even if it looks like there’s no end in sight, if I love her
and I keep staying with her, she’ll feel enough of it that her body will actually let go of it all.
Remember I told you yesterday? Why do people fail at the game of life? ‘Cause they don’t even
know the goal of the game and they’ve got a bunch of rules that don’t even necessarily relate to
what makes them win and they have rules that are in conflict, like you should love me and accept
me for who I am, but if I gamble you should stop me, you f[bleep]ing [bleep]hole.

[audience laughs]

Tony: And then other people have different rules, especially if they’re of a different gender,
about how to win the same game. Anyone wants to win it with them and they’ve got the wrong
rules. And then they have infield fly rules: accept me completely and love me for who I am and
don’t judge me—except when I gamble and I’m happy. Then I know you f[bleep]ing hate me, you
don’t care for me, and it’s your f[blee]ing fault I went through all this pain ‘cause if you wouldn’t
have been more present, I wouldn’t have been there. So now I have a question for you, Lyndsey.
Since this has only been about you. You have a very nice smile, something you can use even
more, I bet. In fact if your husband saw you smile as much as you did this morning, he might get
hard. [audience and Tony laugh] There you go. Then you might know he loves you. I know that’s
not how you know. You know by him understanding and taking time and figuring you out. Send
him to me and I will teach him these things. In the meantime, don’t expect a blind, deaf man
who worships you to understand how to make you happy, especially when you don’t want to be
happy at times. It’s just dumb and you’re not a dumb woman. [pause] But you could love the
[bleep] out of him and that would make him have more desire to figure it out. ‘Cause he’s in as
much pain and is as scared as you are. So what are you thinking or feeling now?

Lyndsey: I’m thinking about I went to UPW in October last year and life was changed quite
dramatically for us upon my return as far as an intimate relationship was concerned and I must
admit life was a lot rosier at that time and yes, he did stand there shaking his said saying, “What
the [bleep] is going on here? Oh my God, what happened, you were there for four days, what’s

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wrong with your life?” da, da, da... So I can understand what you’re saying. It’s the old story that
you don’t give to receive, you give because that’s who you are.

Tony: Give her a hand for that for starters. [audience cheers]

CM: It is clear that Lyndsey has incorporated giving love to her husband as part of her identity.

Lyndsey: Um, and really my biggest challenge for myself and one that I’m ready to step up or
definitely is that my past is my past and that I have a very bright and rosy future as do my kids,
of which I have no doubt.

Tony: Give her a hand for that, it’s beautiful. [audience cheers]

CM: Lyndsey is now able to see a bright future for her children, quite a difference from how she
started less than an hour ago.

Lyndsey: But I guess most of all is I really do have no doubt that Jason and I are meant to be
together. I think we’ve stood the test of time well and truly.

Tony: Give her a hand for that. [audience cheers] Look at that smile.

Lyndsey: But I think most of all is to understand that he probably finds it really just as difficult
as me and he is more confused perhaps than I am and we really do... [audience cheers]

Tony: Much more. Because at least you know the rules ‘cause you know it for another woman
and you could help her. In fact that’s probably where you’ve gotten some of your comfort is
somebody, a female that you care about, a friend, somebody. Is that true? Have you had
anybody like that?

Lyndsey: Um, that’s true, and to be honest Jason and I can sit down and talk and he does just
put his head in his hands going, “What is it with women? I just don’t get it.”

Tony: Yeah.

Lyndsey: Like you know.

Tony: But see women understand so they assume a man would understand.

Lyndsey: But I just thought that after a while they’d get it a bit better and...?

Tony: [shaking head] No. [audience laughs] No, because a man’s world is based on logic.
Women do not have that interference with their experience of life. [audience laughs] A woman
could feel something and it makes sense to her even though there’s no reason for it. So what he
needs to understand is I don’t need to make her happy, I need to make a difference and my
loving her no matter what makes a difference. My understanding that instead of telling her she’s
wrong for caring about everything all the time or saying things like let go of the kids right
now, she can’t, and isn’t it beautiful that she cares that much about the kids and both of them
and me and her and her friends and everything else and I would go crazy if I had to think about
that all at once. I like to think of it one at a time. That’s why most men, you know, they can
watch TV, they can read the paper, but they can’t do both those things at once [audience laughs]

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and pay attention to you. The human male brain works physiologically differently. So no, he’s
not going to just get it. He has to be trained. And you are not a good trainer ‘cause you’re busy
feeling, which makes total sense. You don’t want to become a trainer. Send him to me, I’ll whip
his [bleep] into shape, or, love him and shape him through your love instead of your anger.

Share with him the happiness that you do have ‘cause you just told us a bunch of things that are
much different from what you started out saying. How many hear a different story right now?
Sounds like he actually loves her and tries to listen and share and hear and care. And there’s
another piece too. I know you want him to step up also, but you’ve also done the stepping up
‘cause the one source of sanity you have is that you are significant ‘cause you do it all. And so
even though it’s pissed you off, you wouldn’t give him a lot of space to do that except when
you’re totally exhausted and at that point he doesn’t know what to do and he’s gone too and who
knows what’s going to make you happy. But you would hate yourself if you weren’t the most
significant one. It would be nice if it were more balanced but you loved his [bleep] and shared it
too and you know, if you helped me in these pieces and you really enforced him ‘cause he’ll be
stupid and do it once and think that’s what you mean, you can get him to be a part of that
process. Not by demand, not by hate, not by taking love away, by sharing and giving even more
love. If it’s not physical, though, he won’t believe it’s real. [pause] And you’re the only one who
needed to hear this conversation, Lyndsey. [audience and Lyndsey laugh] That’s why we took so
much time on it. So where do we go from here?

Lyndsey : I just think I need to go home and re-establish a really good intimate connection with
him again and to... [audience cheers] To ditch the bag would probably be a really good start as
well. So...

Tony: Do what with the bag?

Lyndsey [smiling]: To ditch the bag or to blow the bag up...

Tony: Yes.

Lyndsey: Or that sort of thing.

Tony: Well the male thing is blow it up. Women will just ditch it. [audience laughs] That’s great.

Lyndsey: And continue to, yea, love my kids and my family, which I do automatically. Like that’s
just really who I am from the bottom of it all, um, and just to continue to encourage them to be
who they are and it’s OK to be different and all those sorts of things and just to enjoy life.

Tony: And I’m just curious, when you think about your life now, how do you feel?

Lyndsey: Um, that it’s actually pretty good and...

Tony: [laughs] Huh. So it’s not over?

Lyndsey: No and I really don’t believe it ever was over. Like I’ve never believed that life’s been
over but I definitely believe that we have some challenges that sometimes we really just don’t
know where to go and that’s why we come somewhere like this, so that we can learn where to go.
‘Cause we all want a better life, we don’t want a [bleep] life. We want to live to the fullest of our
potential. [audience cheers]

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Tony: One thing that’s useful to know about men versus women: women speak in riddles.
[Lyndsey laughs] Men think when you’re speaking in riddles you mean what you’re saying. If
there’s anything a man could learn, it’s that women never mean what they’re saying- never will
upset them; rarely mean what they’re saying, but they know that they really are meaning what
they’re saying because they’re speaking in riddle. [audience laughs] So when you said earlier,
“It’s over, I can’t do this anymore,” I can tell you that if you say that, he’s gonna go and
f[bleep]ing panic thinking, “I have failed ultimately, life is ending, it is over.” He didn’t know
that it was a storm that would pass if we would just talk here for about forty-five minutes and
now life would be wonderful and great and compelling and future. So the men in this room
might want to remember this conversation and remember this woman, even though she doesn’t
look like the one that you spend time with, the core of it is the same. The story may change but
the core is the same. Listen for the deeper piece. Every man, if I could give you one gift I’d get
you a magnifying glass and one of those little hats, you know, and turn you into Sherlock
Holmes ‘cause if you do you’ll become a hero instead of an idiot and you deserve to be able to
win like that and every woman deserves a man who will search and find. ‘Cause nothing lights
her up more than a man who will stick with it and find and most men, if you’re really a man,
that’s what you’re made for anyway. You love a f[bleep]ing challenge. You love to break through.
You love to figure it out. If you were as committed to figuring out your woman as you were to
figuring out that electronic [bleep]ing device, imagine what your life would be like. [audience
laughs] A guy will spend a f[bleep]ing hour trying to figure out this electronic thing and not even
thirty seconds, a woman says something, “Oh [bleep], I’m out of here.” Shift your focus and shift
your life. Make your woman a larger sphere. Give her a big hand. [audience cheers]

CM: Lyndsey stood up presenting a challenging story about a very hard life. While dealing with
the challenges of caring for two children with severe health difficulties, she had become addicted
to gambling, smoking, and drinking, which had put her entire family into severe financial debt.
Although she was able to overcome her addictions, she was still left with not only the financial
debt but also a crippling sense of regret and guilt over what she had done. Tony instantly
appreciated and recognized and appreciated the degree of pain and sense of helplessness that
Lyndsey had suffered over her daughters’ health issues, and then he asked her what will she do
with that pain?

Was she going to let the pain create an atmosphere of fear, resentment, grief, and guilt, or an
atmosphere of greater love, compassion, and awareness? Then we learned the real challenge.
Lyndsey was furious with her husband who had not helped her break her gambling habit and
who had not prevented her from ruining the family’s finances. Instead he had not interfered
with Lyndsey’s addictions. Tony explained the predominant emotional pattern that ruins
relationships: the crazy eight. The truth is that we seek to blame our loved ones not because it
will help, not because they are responsible, but because anger helps us feel significant and
certain in the moments when we feel most insignificant and fearful. Tony also explained her
husband’s situation. He hadn’t stopped Lyndsey from gambling because he loved her. He
understood the hardships of her life and he wanted her to have something she could do to
escape and be happy. Lyndsey understood the pattern that had lead her to gamble and that was
even now trapping her in feelings of sadness and blame. She also recognized that her husband
loved her and would do anything for her just as she would do anything for her children. Her love
and understanding for her husband was renewed and she went home to him with a new attitude
of love, acceptance, and compassion. Now lets visit with Lyndsey and her husband Jason, as
they meet with Tony again one year later. © 2009 ��������������������������
Tony: Well first of all it’s great to see you and great to meet you finally. Lyndsey, tell me
something. You look very, very soft and relaxed compared to the last time I saw you. Tell me,
catch me up. What’s happening in your life? It’s been a few years of this process now.

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Lyndsey: Yeah, Tony, life’s never been better for me. It’s really quite special now. I’ve really
taken some time for myself and spent time looking inwardly at ways that I could change rather
than having this gorgeous man over here, so, yeah.

Tony: [laughing] Look at him going, “Yes!”

Lyndsey: So yeah, it was really about taking responsibility for where I was I think and you really
helped me to see that. There were times that I was just mad with you but, um...

Tony: Yeah, you seemed rather angry at stages when we were interacting. [laughs]

Lyndsey: Yeah, I know you do it with love, but there was times when I was just like, oh, I wish he
was close. But it’s just been an amazing journey for me and one that I am so thankful to have
had the opportunity to go through and it’s just an ongoing process and yeah, so we’re tackling
that together now which is really gorgeous but our relationship is great and we’re working on
heaps of stuff together and it’s just awesome.

Tony: I want to hear from your perspective. What did you think when this woman comes home
and what’s happened?

Jason: It was a major change. I thought, “That guy’s a bloody genius.” [all laugh]

Lyndsey: He always said he want to thank you for that part of our relationship.

Jason: Now look she’s come out of it, um... She’s gone out of a vey bad place, a destructive place,
to a place that she’s out there moving her head faster than anyone around her, really.

Tony: How does it make you feel when you see her today and see the way she’s transformed
herself?

Jason: I’m really proud of her because, you know, if you look at gambling, her addiction to
gambling, and you look at just addictions in general, it’s about roughly 5% of addicts, maybe a
bit less than that that actually recover, that actually come back to a normal life.

Tony: Yes. So it sounds like the trust is back.

Jason: Definitely.

Tony: Yeah.

Jason: Definitely the trust is back. And I’ve done some personal growing as well. You know I was
an angry little ant, and she’s helped me move past that, and rather and sit there and go, “How
could you spend $250,000?” you know, to the point where I think it’s only money and we’ve got
a strategy to bounce back and the strategy’s working well. So we’ve gone from very close to
perfect to probably as wide apart as you can get before it all falls apart to back to probably closer
than we were.

Tony: That’s beautiful. Look at the smile on your face. I love seeing that. [Lyndsey laughs] I love
seeing you able to be vulnerable and alive and not having to control things at the same level. You
can see it in your face; you can see it in your smile. It’s really beautiful. Really.

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Lyndsey: That was actually the hardest thing for me, the vulnerability aspect of anything to do
with life for me. I just thought I had to control everything.

Tony: Right. Yeah.

Lyndsey: And you know relationship wise that was always my core issue was about allowing
myself to be in a vulnerable position and that wasn’t comfortable for me.

Tony: Yes.

Lyndsey: But hey, it’s all good now.

Jason: We’ve had a 180 degree turn here.

Tony: Yes.

Jason: The thing I’ve noticed and my kids have noticed is that anything she does now is full on,
you know. She’d have to be right up there when I say people that I know in the world that are
driven and focused. She’s a great one to look up to, yeah.

Tony: Wow. That’s pretty nice when your husband looks up to you like that.

Lyndsey: Isn’t it so cute! It’s nice to hear that.

Tony: That’s beautiful. Now, you said it’s only money. $250,000, $200,000 you still owe, are
paying off. How have you guys both resolved that so it’s not like a wound ‘cause a lot of people
would say that’s not something I can get over ‘cause every month I gotta pay that thing. How do
you deal with that? What’s the meaning you’ve given it? How have you shifted it to be able to
really be in a good place about it?

Lyndsey: Well I actually reframed it, I look it as my education so we have something in Australia
called a hex debt for if you go to university.

Tony: Yes.

Lyndsey: You take out like a payment structure where it means that you go to Uni and you study
and you end up having to pay X amount of money for your hex debt or for your education so I
had a big issue with not being an academic so I thought I’ll just make it up so I’ll just make it the
University of Life. That’s my hex debt, you know? [Tony laughs] So when it comes to pay it,
‘cause I had a major issue with making payments for something I had nothing to show for, that
was really challenging for me, so I thought how can I do it? So I just said I’ll make it my hex debt
and so now I have a degree, I’m a professor, you know, from the University of Life so I sort of
figured it was a really cool way to do it and that sits OK with me.

Tony: I think that’s helpful for people. I think a lot of people just see something as lost and what
you both have managed to do is say look what we’ve gained from our life. You know, do I want to
have to deal with that? No, but will I happily do that to have my life the way it is today? You bet.

Lyndsey: So I struggled with going through a whole heap of stuff and thinking it was in vain and
I thought well it only is if I don’t do anything with it so, yea, so it’s kind of cool.

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Tony: That’s very cool. I mean the truth is that I don’t think people who are going through
gambling or people who are going through the, are drinking to that extent or have any forms of
addictions, when someone tries to talk to them who hasn’t had an addiction, they just go, “Oh,
you don’t understand. You don’t know.” But when someone who’s had all their addictions, you
know, stacked on top to extreme talks to them then it’s hard for them to escape that and it takes
that sometimes to get leverage for someone to change. So hopefully this film will provide that for
people too so they can see here’s this lady a few years later, look at the difference still. It isn’t
just a one time little hit for a week or a month or something and then no difference. You both
have been really good at forgiving each other now. Is that fair to say?

Jason: Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, I sat there for six months thinking, “How the hell
could you do this?” you know, and like, “How could you do this?”

Tony: Yes.

Jason: I remember when I first found out about the gambling, you know, like someone just told
me I’m in a significant amount of debt here, and a friend of the family said to me, “What are you
gonna do? You gonna leave her?” and I said, “No, I love her.”

Lyndsey: Aw...

Jason: That’s the time when I thought, you know, that’s the time when it really hits home that
you’re hanging around, you’re not... [Lyndsey affectionately grabs his arm and kisses him]

Lyndsey: I love you. You’re gorgeous. [Jason and Lyndsey tear up]

Tony: You both are. You’re both gorgeous. Ah, there’s tears all over you guys. Now I’ve got them
too. That’s beautiful. It must make you feel incredible to know how much a man loves you and
for him to know how much you love him that come through hell or high water you’re there for
each other no matter what.

Lyndsey: You know, life’s never gonna be perfect, you know, and if you just pull together and
realize that we do the best that we can do. I remember when you said that I thought, well, I’ve
always done the best that I could to and he’s always done the best he could do, but sometimes
our best was just different. That was all. One wasn’t right and one wasn’t wrong, it was just
different, you know.
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Jason: Completely apart at times, I think.

Lyndsey: Yeah. But we both did the best we could do, you know? And, um, now we’ve realized
that we can pull together and do the best we can do and it’s a totally different place. But I lean on
him now, you know?

Tony: Yeah.

Lyndsey: And it’s OK to do that, you know?

Tony: Yes.

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Lyndsey: If I’m having a bad day, it’s OK. Like he can hack that, you know? Like I was just
treating him like he was just this person in war and I had to do everything myself but no, he’s a
strong bloke.

Tony: Before you had all these rules about how your man had to be and he wasn’t “that.” You
had very few rules for yourself back then as I think I pointed out to you at the time.

Lyndsey: Yeah.

Tony: But you set you set yourself up that then to blame yourself, there’s nothing left of you to
be able to go out and make your life better, or after a while you get tired of beating yourself up so
you beat someone else up, and you seem to have stepped out of that.

Lyndsey: Oh, absolutely.

Tony: That’s true.

Lyndsey: But I was when I first came to UPW two years ago. I was beating myself up big time so
I stopped my gambling and I really managed to pull my addictions into line...

Tony: Yeah.

Lyndsey: But I was miserable. I was like, “Well now what? What do I do so I’m not doing this
stuff?”

Tony: Yeah.

Lyndsey: So what do I do? You know? I was absolutely miserable. So, um, yea, it’s like you stop
the addictions that you think are causing you the pain but you’re left with more than you can
ever imagine and you’ve still got all the challenges. I still had all the challenges and things at
home so that’s what was just priceless for me.

Tony: Yeah. How do you define yourself? Are you a gambler anymore? What’s your way of
describing yourself?

Lyndsey: I just see myself as a really caring person who just really wants to get out there and
enjoy her life and be a great mom and a wonderful wife but be really kind to myself too. I was
really mean to me.

Tony: Yes you were.

Lyndsey: And, um, no one was being more vicious to me than me and I don’t want to do that
anymore, you know? I’m deserving of much more from myself so I give myself the room to be
that person. So I goof up, you know, but I don’t care, it doesn’t bother me, and I don’t see
gambling as a part of my life at all. I just don’t. I’d never have the impact I was destined to have
if I didn’t do what I did, you know?

Tony: That’s true.

Lyndsey: And I look at our eldest daughter, Chloe, and she’s having quite some major challenges
at the moment, which is proving to be quite difficult to deal with, but because I’ve been through

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issues that I have myself it’s almost like I did it to help her because she has major anger issues
and she’ll say to me, “But mum, it’s so hard to keep myself together long term.” And we’ve
shared, you know, my story and what’s happened, both of our girls are very aware of that.

Tony: Yeah.

Lyndsey: And I said, “You know, I can share with you first hand, Chloe, and when you need to
make changes in your life it is hard but it gets easier. The more you stick to your guns and the
more you do it, long term, the change is much easier.”

Tony: Yeah.

Lyndsey: But it’s like you’re going uphill to start with but then you get to the top of the hill and
it’s like you just glide down the other side and it’s all good. So if I didn’t go through what I’ve
been through I wouldn’t be able to share that with my daughter and I think, you know, she’s
really been such a great teacher for me...

Tony: Wow.

Lyndsey: And I for her and we’ve really got this amazing bond that, it’s just been, it’s fantastic.

Tony: And you both reflect the theme that I think most people don’t realize and to me that
theme is happiness and problems have no relationship.

Lyndsey: And just like being happy with little things, you know? I remember Jason coming
home one day and there’s myself and the two girls and we’ve got the stereo flat out and I, ‘cause
we’ve been dancing on the floor, and I said, you know, “Let’s be really naughty,” you know. “You
get up on the coffee table and you just go for it, you know.” Have a really cool time. And you can
be happy in that moment or you can sit on the couch thinking about all the stuff that’s going on
that’s not great, but you can be happy any time you want to be happy and I didn’t realize that
before...

Tony: Yes.

Lyndsey: And I think by coming through the whole process that I have over the last couple of
years I’ve realized that happiness is a choice. You can choose to be happy or you can choose to be
sad.

Tony: How have you grown through all of this? ‘Cause you see how your lady’s grown but how
have you grown?

Jason: I can see how that two people can actually make things go from [holds hands far apart]
here, you know, not good at all, into great, better than it was when you first met sort of thing,
you know?

Tony: Wow.

Jason: It is possible as long as you’re both on the same page.

Tony: Yeah.

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Jason: You know, you’ve gotta be both. Their support person is as important as the person with
the problem, really.

Tony: How many years have you guys been together?

J: Eighteen.

Tony: Eighteen years and better now than before, [Tony pounds Jason’s fist] now I like that.

Lyndsey: Yea, that’s awesome! That is so cool, isn’t it?

Tony: That is wonderful.

Lyndsey: It’s awesome.

Tony: And how about for you? I know that part of your vision I understand is to help other
ladies that are having challenges like this.

Lyndsey: Yea, that’s huge for me. I’ve really, I mean I’ve got enormous big dreams. I’d really like
to have a beautiful center for kids and for families so that they can come together as a family and
have some support for the kids with special needs and the siblings and the parents ‘cause there’s
just no support there that we’ve been able to find.

Tony: Yeah.

Lyndsey: Spending much more time with the kids. You know, we have our weekends free now
and Jason spends a lot of time off on the weekends, so we actually have time to connect as a
family and, you know, we do some goofy stuff. We went down for a photo shoot didn’t we, only a
little while ago and we went down to the beach down in Brisbon and it was such a hoot. Middle
of winter and here we are dressed in our jeans and stuff and we ended up having this massive
water fight and we went swimming in our jumpers and jeans and oh, God it was amazing. We
had all these people standing on the pier looking down at us, you know, and this one lady called
out and she said to me, “Oh, wait till summer and I’ll do that,” and my instinct was, you know,
but summer may never come for you. This is our summer. It doesn’t matter ‘cause it’s cold, you
know. We were throwing balls and a lady brought down a puppy for the kids to swim with and
we had another lady that brought down crystals and said, “Could you wash them for me?” and it
was just a crack up.
© 2009 ��������������������������
Jason: It was freezing.

Lyndsey: And there we are sitting in a coffee shop, dripping wet, drinking hot chocolate. [Jason
laughs] It was just a hoot. Wasn’t it fun?

Jason: It was good, yeah,

Lyndsey: Just beautiful.

Tony: Aww.

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Lyndsey: Now we haven’t done goofy stuff like that for ages but it was just wonderful and the
kids I think, part of what we’ve managed to create here is some really good modeling for the kids
as well and I think the ability to share with them that you can make mistakes ‘cause it’s human
to do so.

Tony: Yes.

Lyndsey: But you can bounce back and it’s how you work with those that matters, you know.
That’s really important to us, so yeah.

Tony: I can’t imagine a better environment for your children to grow up in.

Lyndsey: Oh.

Tony: It’s magical. I’m excited for people to see the transformations you’ve created for each
other and for your family and hopefully they’ll be inspired and remember what’s possible and
remember the past does not equal the future.

Lyndsey: That was one of the things that I [tears up]...

Jason: Whisper it to me, I’ll tell him.

Lyndsey: [crying] I knew I’d leave this bit to the last bit.

Tony: Oh.

Lyndsey: I never had the chance to say thank you.

Tony: Oh!

Lyndsey: And I really wanted to say thanks...

Tony: Wow.

Lyndsey: Because I just didn’t get the opportunity to say it, you know. I can’t describe to you
how different life is for me these days and I really do appreciate it, so yeah.

Tony: [crying] Well I want give you a hug but I have to tell you one of the greatest things that I
could possibly have is to see the joy that you have and also what brought me to tears here at the
end, I’m already so moved by you guys, but I know what kind of life your children will have no
matter what with this as their reference base. They may get off target but when they have this as
a reference base, you’ve given your children something that is immeasurably valuable and you’ve
touched the future beyond yourselves and [unintelligible] but please give me a hug. All the
thanks in the world is just to see you guys so happy.

Lyndsey: Thank you, I really appreciate it. [Tony and Lyndsey hug] Thank you so much.

Tony: Thank you, you’re an amazing woman. You’ve got an amazing woman right here.

Jason: Thank you. [Tony and Jason hug]

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[credits, film ends]

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