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GuitarNutz 2
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General Guitar Schematics
Adding a Piezo pickup
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Design Development
In developing the installation, I found initially that the raw sounds, even through a high-impedance buffer, were lacking in body with a big hump in the f
at around 700 to 1000 hZ. Heres a raw sample Its piezo only, first with no EQ, and then again played through a network of resistors and caps. Each has b
level only. The buzzes come from it being strewn all over the desk with aligator clips:
www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=674084&content=songinfo&songID=6966415
And here is a screen shot showing the sample trace, two spectrums, and also the RC network for the second sample modelled with Duncans ToneStack C
http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/3718/adding-piezo-pickup 1/10
15/03/2018 Adding a Piezo pickup | GuitarNutz 2
You can see the big hump around 700 to 1000hz, slightly suppressed in the second sample, but still evident, giving it a somewhat honky quality.
Preamp
I made a preamp design that included the RC network, with gain and mixing stages to blend in the magnetic pickups. Here's the schematic:
This is the frequency response when the blender is fully to the piezo:
http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/3718/adding-piezo-pickup 2/10
15/03/2018 Adding a Piezo pickup | GuitarNutz 2
The three presets in the tone network are roughly at the settings shown, giving a dip where I found it to be needed in my case. It still has an element of d
sound which I'm happy to accept.
I estimate that the raw piezo gives a signal about 10dB less than one of my relatively powerful single coils. So the piezo signal gets two gain stages, one
this lower output, and a second to boost it back up after the tone network. The mag signal is treated neutrally with zero gain. The whole output is then bu
capable of driving a PA line input or a guitar amp input.
The magnetic input is taken after the volume and tone controls - any passive pickup wiring scheme could be used to combine magnetic pickups.
The blending is with R32, and its seemless from full mag to full piezo - its really fun to play with and I've found some nice sounds with about 20/80 mag
One thing that surprised my with the piezo is that I did not need a very high input impedance, which I had read elsewhere was generally required. The pi
a capacitor which generates voltages, and the specs say it is equivalent to 20nF. I found that an input impedance (R2) of 150k gave it a full bass sound, b
lower frequencies to reduce unwanted sub-bass thumps.
The current drain is about 0.35mA, so I'm hopeful of a few hundred hours use out of a battery.
This is the construction, on stripboard:
It's sized to fit, with a battery, in the trem cavity which was empty. Hence I didn't need to build it to absolutely minimum size - it's much easier to have a
board if possible.
I found I needed to reverse all the mag pups, which helped phase combinations of mag and piezo.
Installation
Here's the installation:
http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/3718/adding-piezo-pickup 3/10
15/03/2018 Adding a Piezo pickup | GuitarNutz 2
and a close up of the piezo 'short stack', showing the brass disk, with a coin under it and plastic packs on top, all fixed together with epoxy:
There's a single screened multicore cable that makes all the connections to the main cavity, for power control, mixer pot, magnet pups and output signals
Sounds
Now here are some samples, with other guitars for comparison:
First some strums:
www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=674084&content=songinfo&songID=7044456
This has:
1. An old Yamaha FG100 acoustic, recorded with a dynamic mic. A smallish bodied beginner guitar that I fixed up recently
2. A good Maton dreadought EM325C, recorded with mic as above - recently acquired
3. The Matons own piezo pickup recorded simultaneously with 2.
4. The new Strat piezo system, subject of this thread - full piezo
5. As 4, with a bit of neck magnetic pickup added
6. Strat bridge pickup
And here's just the piezo:
www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=674084&content=songinfo&songID=7061284
This one is more extensive, showing a range of sounds from the guitar, through a clean amp:
www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=674084&content=songinfo&songID=7102562
I’m finding it very useful playing in our covers band since it helps me get whatever sound is needed out of one guitar.
EDIT 09/10/11
http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/3718/adding-piezo-pickup 4/10
15/03/2018 Adding a Piezo pickup | GuitarNutz 2
Heres another sample, with me attempting the intro from 'Dear Prudence'
www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=674084&songID=11118334
It starts with all magnetic, with a series combo of N and M, then at 10 sec, the piezo mixes in, and at 23, it is pure piezo
cheers
John
Last Edit: Jul 2, 2017 at 8:55am by JohnH
JohnH
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Adding a Piezo pickup Sep 17, 2010 at 5:56pm
Post by irwired on Sep 17, 2010 at 5:56pm
Has anyone had experience with passive pezio pickups?
I have run across them on big box music store sights.
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JohnH
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Adding a Piezo pickup Oct 8, 2011 at 6:56pm
Post by JohnH on Oct 8, 2011 at 6:56pm
In view of current interest in piezo and magnetic blending, I just added another sample, with me attempting the intro from 'Dear Prudence'
www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=674084&songID=11118334
It starts with all magnetic, with a series combo of N and M, then at 10 sec, the piezo mixes in, and at 23, it is pure piezo
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Last Edit: Oct 8, 2011 at 6:56pm by JohnH
boctok Adding a Piezo pickup Jun 30, 2014 at 2:13pm
Rookie Solder Post by boctok on Jun 30, 2014 at 2:13pm
Flinger JohnH,
I was curious to find out how you connected all of this to the existing electronics in the guitar (i.e. the existing volume and tone pots).
I understand how both pickups were wired to the board, but I'm not getting how the preamp/blending circuit was connected to the volume and tone pot
bypass those altogether?
I was hoping to reproduce the circuit but keep the existing volume and tone controls.
I'm actually making a "Cigar Box Guitar" with one single coil at the neck and a piezo bridge pickup. I was going to try to have one master volume, one
(maybe two, if needed) and one pot for blending.
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Likes: 0 Your insight would be greatly appreciated!
JohnH Adding a Piezo pickup Jun 30, 2014 at 5:21pm
Global Post by JohnH on Jun 30, 2014 at 5:21pm
Moderator Hi boctok and welcome to GN2.
http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/3718/adding-piezo-pickup 5/10
15/03/2018 Adding a Piezo pickup | GuitarNutz 2
What you describe should work out fine. On the circuit diagram, the signal source labelled as 'magnetic', feeding into C2 and transistor Q2, actually repr
from the full magnetic pickups switching and volume/tone circuit. So it comes from the volume control centre lug, where it would normally be going to
normal guitar wiring could work. So overall, you set up the magnetic tone and volume, then mix in however much peizo you want, which blends from a
50%/50% to 100%/0. There's no overall master volume, but there is enough controls to get any blend or volume you want. eg If you only want pure piez
magnetic volume to zero, and now the blend control is acting like a volume for piezo. Then maybe add a touch of magnetic to that, etc.
Be prepared for considerable tweaking to get the tone and relative levels right, but it is a very tweakable circuit so it should be a suitable basis. Good luc
your interest.
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Adding a Piezo pickup Jul 2, 2014 at 9:52am
JohnH Post by JohnH on Jul 2, 2014 at 9:52am
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Last Edit: Jul 2, 2014 at 11:55am by boctok
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One of the main things it does is to amplify the level from the piezo so that it matches the magnetic. The design shown is where I ended up after adjustin
my set-up. There are two resistors R23 and R25 which set the amplification for the piezo signal. The lower they are, the higher the gain. So you may wan
them to suit your build. One way would be to make them each a 50k trimpot instead of a 10k resistor.
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I'll let JohnH provide you with the definitive answer here, but I note that none of the capacitors on his schematic is shown as being an electrolytic type, i
shown with a "+" to designate the polarity. Where an electrolytic type is required in a design, the polarity has to be identified, in order to avoid a rapid fa
dramatic failure as well . . .) of an electrolytic cap wired wrong way around.
Not working
for the So, based on that, I suspect that JohnH will tell you that he just used those because he had those available in the correct values, not because the design re
clampdown . . . ones. But again, we'll await a definite answer from John.
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Likes: 21 As far as film vs. ceramic, I doubt there is a reason to prefer one over the other in this type of a circuit.
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Adding a Piezo pickup Aug 12, 2014 at 1:18pm
boctok Post by boctok on Aug 12, 2014 at 1:18pm
Rookie Solder Flinger I wanted to use a 1/4" stereo plug as a sort of on/off switch, so that when the guitar is unplugged, the preamp won't be "on". Is this how it should
I have the audio "output", going to the tip, the neg lead from the 9V battery going to the base and the ring going to what would have connected to
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In theory, what you've drawn is electrically correct. However, we consider it "bad form" to make the circuit's signal ground depend on the power ground
through the ring-to-sleeve physical connection. Only at the output jack sleeve (what you called the base) should they meet, for conduit via the guitar cab
some effects pedals, etc.) It's best that you swap the ring and sleeve terminals so that the battery neg terminal goes to the jack's ring terminal, and the circ
to the jack's sleeve.
The concept here is that signal ground, shield ground, and power ground are all different things within a circuit, and none of them should physically depe
I'm Bad, I'm others. I know that's hard to understand at first, and if you're not clear about it, just ask - that's why we're here, to help explain the Nutz & Boltz of what's
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sumgai
Last Edit: Aug 12, 2014 at 2:22pm by sumgai: simplified a poorly worded phrase
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boctok boctok,
Rookie Solder
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Welcome to The NutzHouse!
In theory, what you've drawn is electrically correct. However, we consider it "bad form" to make the circuit's signal ground depend on the power ground
through the ring-to-sleeve physical connection. Only at the output jack sleeve (what you called the base) should they meet, for conduit via the guitar cab
some effects pedals, etc.) It's best that you swap the ring and sleeve terminals so that the battery neg terminal goes to the jack's ring terminal, and the circ
to the jack's sleeve.
The concept here is that signal ground, shield ground, and power ground are all different things within a circuit, and none of them should physically depe
others. I know that's hard to understand at first, and if you're not clear about it, just ask - that's why we're here, to help explain the Nutz & Boltz of what's
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HTH
sumgai
Actually, that makes perfect sense. I didn't really think about it because I was more focused on having the ability to turn off the preamp/blend circuit. Th
out.
Yer welcome!
John is correct in that your way will work, but the point of all this is, we strive to reduce the number of possible failure points. In your case, forcing sign
second connection, ring-to-sleeve instead of straight to sleeve, would be a possible point of failure. The problem would be hard to spot, because the batte
enough juice to force the current through the connection, but the signal wouldn't.
I'm Bad, I'm Trust me, I've seen this before - it's why people like me go bald before their time!
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JohnH
Q1: Did you ground the blend pot? I ran a small copper wire from the back of the other pots to the blend. This was before I tested, so I don't know what
had I not done so. Hum dissipates greatly when I touch the 1/4" jack, which leads me to believe that something is not right in the grounding.
Q2: Shielding the circuit board - as an extra measure, what do you think about using a small ESD bag around the circuit board. I have all of the connectio
there would be no danger of a short from the board.
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Likes: 0 Last Edit: Aug 14, 2014 at 2:26pm by boctok
You'll be into tweaking it now to get the tone how you want it. How are the relative levels of mag and piezo as you pan between them?
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MasterMind!! On the three presets, you can set the tone of the piezo. One is basically a low pass filter, and it sets a bass frequency above which it rolls off. The third is
Posts: 4,985 which rolls off below a treble frequency that you set, and the second middle one mixes between these two and sends the result onward. So to set a mid sc
Likes: 18 two filter frequencies with a gap in the middle, or if they overlap, you get a mid hump. Then turn the second preset to emphasise bass or treble according
have your head around what these presets are doing, you can build in quite a versatile preset EQ profile, given its just a simple circuit. Its based on a syst
stomp boxes.
Last Edit: Aug 14, 2014 at 6:04pm by JohnH
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btw, If you want to try sound clips, now that you have this preamp going, it will plug straight into several types of things, including amps, mixer lin
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boctok
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Adding a Piezo pickup Aug 21, 2014 at 10:12pm via mobile
Post by boctok on Aug 21, 2014 at 10:12pm
I'm still tweaking the bridge height, looking for the best possible action. I have the nut set and the frets are all level. The piezo is an under saddle. It resem
bridge, but the bridge piece is brass. I'm going slow with it, just taking off a little at a time. I don't want string buzz. I'll try to get some pictures posted an
everything set, I'll post a sound clip. I also made a small 5 watt cigar box amp to go with it. I'll post those pictures too.
I saw a review recently by Rob Chapman on a guitar with a "Fishman Powerbridge", which sounds much like these. Basically an under saddle transduce
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Last Edit: Aug 21, 2014 at 10:14pm by boctok
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MasterMind!! Apr 24, 2016 at 8:08pm boctok said:
Posts: 4,985 Sorry for what is probably an elementary question, but in this circuit, where it calls for the variable resistors @ 85%, 40% and 35%, can a fixed resistor b
Likes: 18 is say 85% of 100K (~85K)?
I guess what I'm asking is, is the value of a 100K variable resistor @ 85% = 85K?
No problem. Yes you can use fixed resistors. But the way my software drew those pots, and the way I wired them there would imply that, at 85%, the va
fixed resistor is 100-85=15 %. You can see the '0' and '100' ends marked on the diagram, and in two cases, my schematic shorts out between the wiper (s
marked_ and 0%. Note that R13 would need two fixed resistors.
But that part of the circuit was intended to allow tweaking of the tone, to try to set a general balance that I liked. So I used preset pots (see photo), and Id
too if you are doing something similar, since your set up would be different.
http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/3718/adding-piezo-pickup 10/10