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The Origin of Evil by ~LloydG
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The Origin of Evil and the End of the World
Lloyd D. Graham
Also To a large extent, JudaeoChristian beliefs have shaped the values and morals of the
LloydG's Profile Western world. It is therefore somewhat surprising to find that the Old Testament lacks an
account of the origin of evil, other than attributing it to God (Isa 45:7), and that neither it
LloydG's Gallery
nor the New Testament provides a convincing reason for the fall of Satan and his cohorts
from heaven. One possible allusion the desire of Lucifer to exalt himself above God,
resulting in his being cast down (Isa 14:1215) occurs in a context that shows it to refer
to the ambitions of a particular King of Babylon. So is there, then, no explanation of evil that
dates to Old Testament times? There is, and yet despite its prominence in apocryphal
literature and some scriptural allusions to it the story remains little known. A passage in
Genesis mentions it as follows:
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and
daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men
that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose ... There
were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of
God came in unto the daughters of men, and bare children to them, the same
became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. And God looked upon the
earth ... [and said:] The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled
with violence through them ... (Gen 6:113)
These profoundly important events are described in much greater detail in Old Testament
pseudepigrapha and apocrypha, such as the Book of Enoch (1 En) and the Book of Jubilees
(Jub). Such sources describe how two hundred heavenly beings, all drawn from the angelic
order known as Watchers (Heb. 'irin, 'those who are awake'), ensured their own damnation
by forsaking their heavenly estate in favour of sexual liaisons with mortal women:
And it came to pass, when the children of men had multiplied, that in those days
were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the
children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another:
"Come, let us choose wives from among the children of men, and beget us
children". And Semjaza, who was their leader ... and all the others together with
[him] took unto themselves wives, and ... they began to go in unto them and to
defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments,
and the cutting of roots, and they made them acquainted with plants. And they
became pregnant, and they bare great giants ... who consumed all the
acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants
turned against them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds,
and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink
the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones. (1 En 6:1
7:6)
Thus the immediate consequences of this forbidden intercourse were twofold. The first
outcome was that the fallen angels imparted their heavenly knowledge of the sciences and
the arts to mortals:
And Azazel taught men ... the metals of the earth and the art of working
them ... Semjaza taught enchantments, and rootcuttings ... Kokabel the
constellations, Ezeqeel the knowledge of the clouds... (1 En 8:13); ...[they]
revealed the eternal secrets which were in heaven, which men were striving to
learn (1 En 9:67). And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works
that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all sin. (1 En 10:89).
Such enlightenment parallels the outcome of the wellknown Genesis story (Gen 3:17)
where Adam and Eve were induced to eat from the Tree of Knowledge by the Serpent (an
constellations, Ezeqeel the knowledge of the clouds... (1 En 8:13); ...[they]
revealed the eternal secrets which were in heaven, which men were striving to
learn (1 En 9:67). And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works
that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all sin. (1 En 10:89).
Such enlightenment parallels the outcome of the wellknown Genesis story (Gen 3:17)
where Adam and Eve were induced to eat from the Tree of Knowledge by the Serpent (an
entity later identified with Satan, as in Rev 12:9). In fact, the story of Eve succumbing to
the temptations of the diabolical and phallic serpent can be viewed as a prudish encryption
of the Watcher legend that was moved to an earlier position in the Genesis chronology in
order to emphasise its singular importance. If this view is accepted and it is supported by
a passage (1 En 69:6) in which one of the fallen Watchers is credited with leading Eve
astray then the fall of the angels and the fall of man become two aspects of a single
event.
The second outcome of the fall of the angels was the giant and monstrous offspring
(Heb. nephilim, 'fallen ones') born to Watcher fathers by human mothers, monsters that
turned against humanity and the other creatures of the Earth. A passage in Jubilees (Jub
7:2125) identifies the nephilim with the mighty men of renown (Heb. gibborim) of Genesis
6:4. One of God's avenging archangels arranged the destruction of the nephilim by inciting
them to battle each other; when the giants perished, their souls became the evil spirits and
demons that have afflicted mankind ever since (1 En 15:816:1; Jub 10:5). The fallen
Watchers now the princes of evil were imprisoned in torment until the Day of Judgement,
and God instigated the Flood in order to purge and purify the earth.
Dates and Words The earliest reference to the Watcher story is probably Gen 6:1 13, and
it may date from as long ago as the eighth or ninth centuries BC. Early copies of the
Septuagint translation of 270 BC (where the Old Testament and related apocrypha were
rendered into Greek) suggest that the Hebrew term bene haelohim, 'sons of God' or 'sons of
gods', in Gen 6:2 was translated from the outset as 'angels of God'. The Book of Enoch
contains the earliest detailed account of the full story. It dates to the period 200 100 BC,
although 1 En 136 (the Book of the Watchers) may have been written in the third century
BC.
The term 'Watcher' (Heb. 'irin) occurs mainly in the Old Testament pseudepigrapha that
deal with the fallen angels, but it is also found in the Book of Daniel, a canonical book
contemporary with 1 Enoch. There the phrase 'a watcher and an holy one' (Dan 4:13 & 23)
is used to denote a particular class of angel, and precisely the same phrase is found in some
fragments from the Dead Sea Scrolls (e.g., 1 QapGen II:1). Most sources identify Azazel and
Semyaza as the leaders of the fallen Watchers. The name Azazel appears also in the
canonical Old Testament (Lev 16:810), where it seems to refer to a wilderness demon of
Judaeopagan origin. In this respect, it resembles Isa 34:14, the single Old Testament
reference to Lilith (see below).
The Christian church later attempted to reinterpret the phrase 'sons of God' in Gen 6:2
as 'sons of Seth' and 'daughters of men' as 'daughters of Cain' so that the Watcher story
could be dispensed with. In contrast, Josephus (see below) specifies not only that the
males were angels but that the women were of untainted lineage the daughters of Seth.
The church's reinterpretation also sits oddly with other events in the same epoch, where
illicit heterosexual couplings (intergenerational incest, to be precise) were tolerated by God
and gave rise to normal offspring (Gen 19:3038), while 'unnatural' unions were punished
(Gen 19:126). Clearly, there was something more abhorrent about intermarriage between
'sons of God' and daughters of men than would be warranted by unions between humans of
opposite sex, whatever their lines of descent.
Retellings and Allusions In 1 Enoch, the Watcher story is first given in ch. 616,
recapitulated in ch. 6469, and retold in a disguised form in the Animal Apocalypse (ch. 86
89). In the Book of Jubilees, a work of 153105 BC, it is given in Jub 4:2124; 5:113; 7:20
27; and 10:115. As in 1 Enoch, the fallen Watchers were imprisoned within the earth until
Judgement Day. In the final version given in Jubilees, the prince of the nephilimderived evil
spirits is called both Mastema and Satan, and in a duplication of the imprisonment of the
Watchers these spirits too were bound in the earth until Judgement Day. In this account,
God granted Mastema's request that a tenth of the evil spirits should be left free to roam
the earth while the remainder were bound. As a remedy for their corrupting activities,
though, God ordered one of his loyal angels to instruct Noah in the science of medicine (Jub
10:1014).
The Watcher episode features in sources other than 1 Enoch and Jubilees, appearing
also in Wis 14:6, some Dead Sea Scroll texts, the Ethiopic Kebra Nagast, and in the Book of
the Secrets of Enoch (2 Enoch, a Slavonic work written after AD 100). Aspects of the
Watcher story are also mentioned in the canonical New Testament (e.g., 1 Pet 3:1920; 2
Pet 2:45; Jude 1:6; Rev 12:9; Rev 20:13). There are also references in the writings of
first century Christians like Tertullian, and of their Jewish contemporary, Josephus. The
author of the pseudoClementine homilies resolved some of the theological difficulties
inherent in the Watcher story by proposing that the angels were not overpowered with
sensual passion while in their purely spiritual state (Hom 8:9). He maintained that the angels
asked God to endow them with human bodies so that they could descend to earth and
rectify the wickedness of mankind. Once they had taken human form, however, they also
acquired the weaknesses and passions of mortal men and gave themselves up to the
gratification of their lust.
Reuben's admonitions in the apocryphal Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs (c. AD 70
200) present a variation in which the Watchers are portrayed as sexual voyeurs, which may
go some way towards explaining their unusual name: 'For thus [women] allured the
Watchers who were before the flood; for as these continually beheld them, they lusted after
rectify the wickedness of mankind. Once they had taken human form, however, they also
acquired the weaknesses and passions of mortal men and gave themselves up to the
gratification of their lust.
Reuben's admonitions in the apocryphal Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs (c. AD 70
200) present a variation in which the Watchers are portrayed as sexual voyeurs, which may
go some way towards explaining their unusual name: 'For thus [women] allured the
Watchers who were before the flood; for as these continually beheld them, they lusted after
them, and they conceived the act in their mind; for they changed themselves into the
shape of men, and appeared to them when they were with their husbands. And the women
lusting in their minds after their forms, gave birth to giants, for the Watchers appeared to
them as reaching even unto heaven.' (Testament of Reuben 5:67). Although the
woman/angel union is here portrayed as mental, indulging this fantasy during copulation was
evidently potent enough to transform the offspring born to the human parents. Later, the
New Testament apocryphal work known as the Questions of Bartholomew (c. AD 300500)
insinuates that the fall of man was caused by intercourse between Eve and Satan soon
after the latter and his troop of angels were banished from heaven. The idea of sexual
transgression in the Garden of Eden between the leader of the fallen spirits and the first
mortal woman reinforces the link between the fall of man (as told in Genesis) and the fall of
the angels (as found in the Watcher narrative).
There are strong echoes of the Watchers in the Persian story of the angels Harut and
Marut. These two angels of the highest rank fell in love with a mortal woman, to whom they
revealed the secret Name of God. As a punishment, they were hung upside down in a
bottomless pit near Babylon, from which they taught magic and sorcery. The second Surah
of the Qur’an, v. 102, indicates that these two angels did not actually sin, but simply carried
out the will of Allah in order to test the faith of the local people. Their occult teachings
carried repeated warnings to this effect.
In a curious twist, a Hebrew midrash published in 1625 but claiming Biblical antiquity
describes illicit unions in the days leading up to the Flood in terms that nowadays are
suggestive of genetic engineering:
And every man […] corrupted the earth, and the earth was filled with violence.
And […] the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the
beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of
one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw
the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon
earth, all men and all animals. (Book of Jasher 4:1718)
Possible Sources Babylonian myths may date from as early as 3000 BC. The main
Babylonian creation epic, Enuma Elish, describes a war between the gods in which those
allied with Tiamat and her monsters (enormous serpents ... snarling dragons ... the worm ...)
were vanquished by BelMarduk. The gods were then divided into two groups by Marduk,
'three hundred above for the watchers of heaven, ... five times sixty for earth, six hundred
gods between earth and heaven'. The defeated rebel gods appear to have been the ones
assigned to earth. The Babylonians also believed in 'edimmu', vampires that were violent
giants, which were originally created as a result of intermarriage between human beings and
the spirit world. These demons 'neither eat nor drink' but 'are full of violence, ceaselessly
devouring blood'. Similarly, in 1 En 15:1112, we read that the spirits of the giant nephilim
'work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, but nevertheless
hunger and thirst, and cause offences'. In combination, a belief in edimmu and earthbased
rebel gods could account for some of the elements of the Enochian Watcher episode. A
Babylonian connection is supported by the fact that one of the Watcher human progeny in
the Dead Sea Scrolls' Book of the Giants is called Gilgamesh, the name of the giant in the
eponymous Babylonian epic.
Greek theogony also shares some motifs with the Watcher story. In Greek myths from
the eighth century BC, the mating of skygod (Uranus) with earthgoddess (Gaea) produced
the Titans, the Cyclops, and the hundredhanded Giants. Like the fallen Watchers, the
Cyclops and Giants were imprisoned within the earth; later, this became the fate of the
Titans who had fought with Cronos against Zeus and Prometheus. The latter was
subsequently punished by Zeus for bestowing a number of favours, including fire, on
mankind. Man was punished, too: the first mortal woman (Pandora) was created so beautiful
that despite being warned Prometheus's brother allowed her to stay on Earth. Pandora
subsequently unleashed evil into the world.
A Related Theme There are many myths about Lilith, who in JudaeoChristian tradition is
credited as an alternative (or additional) source of the world's demons. The name, which
means 'windspirit', first appears in a prologue to the Epic of Gilgamesh and recurs as part of
a triad of female furies invoked in Babylonian spells. When Lilith was coopted into Judaic
lore during the Babylonian captivity (i.e., after 586 BC), an etymological confusion resulted
in her being identified as a nightspirit. Later, Talmudic and Kabbalistic speculation identified
her (sometime during the third to tenth centuries AD) as a female who was cocreated with
Adam (Gen 1:27) and before Eve (Gen 2:22). In this elaboration, she refused to submit to
Adam and left Eden. Lilith was reunited with Adam after his and Eve's expulsion from Eden,
and bore him demonic offspring. When Adam and Eve were later reconciled, Lilith lived in a
cave near the Red Sea where she copulated with lascivious demons and gave birth daily to
hundreds more. In additional (or alternative) stories, Lilith and three other female spirits
(Naamah, Igrat, and Mahaath) are seen as consorts to demons, seducers of men, killers of
unprotected infants, and as vampires. Lilith is often paired with Samael, the King of Demons,
who in some versions has been castrated; there are hints that these two were once an
androgynous pair. In her various guises, Lilith is at once a humanlike creature who had
intercourse with Adam to become the mother of demons, a human mate for demons who
and bore him demonic offspring. When Adam and Eve were later reconciled, Lilith lived in a
cave near the Red Sea where she copulated with lascivious demons and gave birth daily to
hundreds more. In additional (or alternative) stories, Lilith and three other female spirits
(Naamah, Igrat, and Mahaath) are seen as consorts to demons, seducers of men, killers of
unprotected infants, and as vampires. Lilith is often paired with Samael, the King of Demons,
who in some versions has been castrated; there are hints that these two were once an
androgynous pair. In her various guises, Lilith is at once a humanlike creature who had
intercourse with Adam to become the mother of demons, a human mate for demons who
begat more of their kind at a prodigious rate, and a demonic succubus who takes unused
human semen to impregnate herself or her daughters to create more demons. No doubt
many of these attributes are a legacy of Lilith's Babylonian origin. The Lilith themes have
obvious overlaps with the Watcher story, and some may well have been borrowed directly
from this source. In the Kabbala, the two legends intersect in a passage on Lilith: 'For 130
years Adam had intercourse with female spirits, until Naamah came. Because of her beauty
the sons of God went astray after her, 'Ussa and 'Azel, and she bore from them, and from
her spread evil spirits and demons in the world' (Zohar 1:19b).
A Search for Meaning To recapitulate: the earliest explanation of evil in the Judaeo
Christian tradition involves an original sin of lust on the part of angelic beings called
Watchers, which led to a transfer of forbidden skills and knowledge to mankind, but which
also led to the birth of monsters who ravaged the Earth, and whose malevolence persists on
Earth in the form of demons. Compared with orthodox rationalisations of the Fall, the
Watchers' original sin engenders both more empathy (as a lapse of judgement in the face of
overwhelming temptation) and more abhorrence (in its breach of sexual taboo). It is safe to
say that traditional alternatives such as Lucifer's pride (Isa 14:1215), Satan's reluctance to
pay homage to Adam (The Life of Adam and Eve and the Qur'an), or Eve's curiosity about
the forbidden fruit (Gen 3:6) pale in comparison. Oddly enough, the Watchers' position
pure spirits craving the pleasures of the flesh would later find its complete antithesis in
certain Gnostic sects of the first few centuries AD, whose devotees despised flesh as a
prison of the spirit. In contrast, people today are more likely to feel compassion for the
angels who succumbed to the lure of physical pleasure.
Shorn of its lurid details, the mythic content of the Watcher story is a strong and
perhaps surprising statement of the relationship between illicit desire, hidden knowledge, and
evil. Above all, though, the Watchers' crime constitutes disobedience to God. To those who
regard the creatorGod as a tyrannical Demiurge, such defiance constitutes a laudable act
of selfdetermination. The Watcher myth has sometimes been presented in this light by
Satanists, who point out that the forbidden knowledge imparted by the Watchers to
mankind serves as the basis for the arts and sciences on which our current civilization is
founded. Their Covenant of Samyaza says that the legacy of the gibborim, known to the
fearful as evil spirits or demons, are also known to the wise as 'guardian geniuses of the
great of Earth, who shall inspire the best among Man to great heights, to beautiful works of
art, and to further discoveries of Earth and cosmos.' While this stance may comfort those
who are unable to view the rise of human civilization as anything other than a virtue, it
comes at the considerable cost of burdening us with an evil Creator. One does, however,
have to wonder about the divinity of a God who feels threatened by the art of writing: 'for
men were not created for such a purpose, to give confirmation to their good faith with pen
and ink ... but through this their knowledge they are perishing, and through this power it
[death] is consuming me' (1 En 69:1012). There is in fact a fundamental tension in the
myth between the works of man (as encouraged by the Watchers) and the works of God, an
opposition that is not alleviated by reversing the moral polarity of the original account, as
the Satanists have done. It is noteworthy that one of the versions in the Book of Jubilees
(Jub 10:1014; see above) has been revised to defuse this tension. In the sanitized
account, useful arts such as medicine were imparted to mankind by God's loyal angels to
afford us protection against the demons.
The End of the World Perhaps the tension inherent in the authentic Watcher legend is
felt most keenly today in the conflict between environmental conservation (preservation of
the divine creation) and urbanindustrial development (promotion of human progress).
Although initiated by lust, the Watchers' actions led also to great human advancement, just
as today the selfish ambitions of those with ability (or in authority) underpin so many of the
material advances that benefit our species. However, it is important to remember that the
actions of the Watchers led not only to expanded human capabilities but also to
uncontrollable consequences that ultimately laid waste to the Earth. In this interpretation,
the ancient myth sounds a clear warning about the potentially cataclysmic consequences of
using our genius to interfere with nature, a warning that is more valid now than ever before.
Perhaps it is to us that Enoch refers in the opening words of his book, when he writes: 'from
[the heavenly angels] I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for
this generation, but for a remote one which is to come' (1 En 1:2 3). The Watcher myth
provides an origin for evil in the world. It may also warn of the ultimate and final evil: can
we imagine a greater sin than the needless and selfinflicted ruin of our entire planet?
First published in the online in Mythos Journal No. 8: Millennial Dreams Myths of the End
Time (Winter 1999). Republished in Lamhfada: An Online Magazine of Myth and Story, Vol.
III, Issue 2, Summer 2002. Currently appears in abridged form in Fickle Muses; see Author's
Comments for link.
©20062009 ~LloydG
Time (Winter 1999). Republished in Lamhfada: An Online Magazine of Myth and Story, Vol.
III, Issue 2, Summer 2002. Currently appears in abridged form in Fickle Muses; see Author's
Comments for link.
©20062009 ~LloydG
Author's Comments Details
Submitted: April 1, 2006
This is an article on the littletold story behind the fall of Satan and his File Size: 22.0 KB
cohorts from heaven, as described in Old Testament canon, Image Size: 0 bytes
pseudepigrapha and apocrypha. Resolution: 0×0
Comments: 41
A short version of this essay appeared in Fickle Muses an Online Journal Favourites & Collections: 11 [ who?]
of Myth and Legend, vol. 2, on 6 Jan 2008. [link]
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Total: 2,753
Today: 3
For the scholarly, a detailed textual analysis of the key biblical passage Downloads
(Gen 6:14) can be found in Jacques T.A.G.M. Ruiten (2000) Primaeval Total: 95
History Interpreted: The Rewriting of Genesis 111 in the Book of Jubilees, Today: 0
Brill, pp. 183190. ISBN 9789004116580.
Thumb
See also Archie T. Wright (2005) The Origin of Evil Spirits: The Reception of :thumb31179580:
Genesis 6.14 in Early Jewish Literature, Mohr Siebeck, pp. 220223. ISBN
9783161486562.
A short but interesting book on the Watchers was published in early 2006: [link] . It makes a valiant attempt
to harmonize passages on evil from a variety of sources (canonical scriptures, Enoch, Jubilees, the Qumran
War Scroll and the Book of Jasher) into a single overarching narrative revolving around the Watcher story.
Devious Comments
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Comments
=darkdescartes Apr 1, 2006, 7:28:38 AM
You're trying to sound smart; big words and a formal, scholarly tone are okay as long as they
don't smother your points. Let the content prove its own brilliance.
Me? Underweight? Naaaah...
I lessthan three DA soooo much!
=darkdescartes Apr 1, 2006, 7:30:38 AM
Although I do applaud you for writing an essay based on study of the Bible where most are too
lazy or bored.
Me? Underweight? Naaaah...
I lessthan three DA soooo much!
~LloydG Apr 1, 2006, 5:51:43 PM
Actually what I'm trying to do is provide an academic tone for a topic that is, well, kind of sensitive
and could offend a lot of people. I do agree that it comes off sounding a bit stilted, and at some
stage I will probably work over the language to improve the flow. In the meantime I hope that
the information is presented clearly, even if it's not exactly light reading.
Oublie
~LloydG Apr 1, 2006, 5:59:28 PM
Thanks, although I'd have to say that there's no shortage of stuff written about the Bible. I hope
that this is a bit different, in that it's not written from a fundamentalist ("the Bible says it, so it
must be true") or evangelical ("my religion is better than yours") point of view. It's not sufficiently
rigorous to get into an academic journal, so I've put it here to see what happens.
Oublie
~LloydG Apr 1, 2006, 5:59:28 PM
Thanks, although I'd have to say that there's no shortage of stuff written about the Bible. I hope
that this is a bit different, in that it's not written from a fundamentalist ("the Bible says it, so it
must be true") or evangelical ("my religion is better than yours") point of view. It's not sufficiently
rigorous to get into an academic journal, so I've put it here to see what happens.
Oublie
~kainwhite1 Jun 12, 2006, 9:15:11 PM
i've just printed this out so i can show beck(girlfriend). i have been looking around for a study on
exactly this topic! thanks lloyd you have started me off on the right foot.
it seems the pairs of opposites are becoming more and more obscured or fragmented the closer
we get to the present day. i agree with many points you make and i am going to do a little more
research on the book of jubilees and enoch.
do you have many more studies of this nature? if you do i would like to read them. you can even
email them if you don't want them on the web
great work, some of the best i've read.
~LloydG Jun 12, 2006, 10:28:50 PM
This was a fairly encyclopaedic review of the topic and I haven't written anything else in the area.
There is however a book called From the Ashes of Angels: the Forbidden Legacy of a Fallen Race by
Andrew Collins it's one of the few books to cover the Watcher story. However, like a lot of
'ancient mystery' writers Collins takes myth to represent real events in prehistory: in this case,
he interprets the Watcher story as evidence of relations between normal humans and a 'super
race' who originated in Egypt and built the pyramids at the end of the last Ice Age. His book
covers a lot of very interesting ground but ultimately Collins has to preform some unconvincing
logical gymnastics to make things fit his master plan. It's a bit like the Da Vinci Code in that
respect.
I have one other article on philosophy/myth/relgion that I haven't put up on dA because I think I
assigned the copyright to the journal it appeared in. I do have a scan of it somewhere, so I'll dig
it out and email it to you. It was written before I knew of the Watcher story, but it does feature
some references to Alan Watts, the author I mentioned a few posts back.
Oublie
~kainwhite1 Jun 13, 2006, 1:17:26 AM
great. yeah i'd love it if you sent me that other essay. i have put the alan watts book in my
shopping cart on amazon. all i have to do now is have the money to buy it! i guess i could
fast....
andrew collins, sounds interesting. have you read any of graham hancock? i have only read
fingerprints of the gods. it's an interesting study on many elements you speak of. but he mainly
focuses on the links between the egyptian pyramids and the aztec pyramids and a lost race which
also brings atlantis into it and many artifacts which suggest that the orthodox timeline of
civilisation is somewhat flawed. it's a little too historical for my tastes, but it's got a lot of
interesting stuff about the great myths (creation, flood).
~kainwhite1 Jun 13, 2006, 1:17:33 AM
great. yeah i'd love it if you sent me that other essay. i have put the alan watts book in my
shopping cart on amazon. all i have to do now is have the money to buy it! i guess i could
fast....
andrew collins, sounds interesting. have you read any of graham hancock? i have only read
fingerprints of the gods. it's an interesting study on many elements you speak of. but he mainly
focuses on the links between the egyptian pyramids and the aztec pyramids and a lost race which
also brings atlantis into it and many artifacts which suggest that the orthodox timeline of
civilisation is somewhat flawed. it's a little too historical for my tastes, but it's got a lot of
interesting stuff about the great myths (creation, flood).
~LloydG Jun 13, 2006, 6:12:31 AM
I'll email the other essay to you tomorrow. Also if you like I can send you my copy of The Book if
you email me back with a postal address. It's not long since I read it, and can't see myself
needing it in a long while. It'll continue my fine tradition of giving away Watt's books to people I
think will appreciate them.
My job is rather demanding so unfortuately I get very little time to read for fun... I must confess I
haven't read any of Hancock's books, although I will have read summaries of them. I feel that
these best selling authors often spin (if not twist) the facts for the sake of a good story, so I try
to go for primary sources if at all possible.
Oublie
~Braise Feb 27, 2007, 6:36:44 PM
Basing your studies on the book of Jubilees is pretty one sided if you ask me. The book of Jubilees
is only held authoritative in select Oriental Coptic sects, and even then seems to have originated
much later than the Genesis and Exodus accounts. If anything, it was a rewritten account that
incorporated collective midrash and fiction in an attempt to solve several Biblical mysteries. A Gen
20:3038 doesn't even exist. Dan 4:13 & 23 refers to Daniel's revelation to Nebuchadnezzar and
his fate as a wandering madman for seven years as punishment for his pride and vanity. Gen
1:27 isn't mentioning Lilith, but instead, the creation of man and woman. The Book of Enoch isn't
considered canonical either because was also written in the early 1st century b.c. To say that Eve
~Braise Feb 27, 2007, 6:36:44 PM
Basing your studies on the book of Jubilees is pretty one sided if you ask me. The book of Jubilees
is only held authoritative in select Oriental Coptic sects, and even then seems to have originated
much later than the Genesis and Exodus accounts. If anything, it was a rewritten account that
incorporated collective midrash and fiction in an attempt to solve several Biblical mysteries. A Gen
20:3038 doesn't even exist. Dan 4:13 & 23 refers to Daniel's revelation to Nebuchadnezzar and
his fate as a wandering madman for seven years as punishment for his pride and vanity. Gen
1:27 isn't mentioning Lilith, but instead, the creation of man and woman. The Book of Enoch isn't
considered canonical either because was also written in the early 1st century b.c. To say that Eve
ate of the fruit because of a simple curiosity is a major understatement. Both Adam and Eve knew
of the grand consequence of eating the fruit. Not only was it lust for the fruit, but disobedience of
a creation against its creator, its ultimate authority. Adam and Eve sought to achieve god like
status, as Satan had, and so were excluded from the everlasting presence of God, and cast into
perpetual death. Unlike Satan, however, God saw that mankind was capable of repentance
(Adam and Eve's guilt, and later through Noah), and thus gave man the option to atone his sins
through Moses (establishment of the law; Tanakh/Torah). In Christianity, Jesus was God
incarnate and messiah, and was the ultimate sacrifice, one so grand it gave man permanent
atonement if one believes in Him. For angels, why not this [link]
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