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Master: Since you firmly believe that ‘I am the body’, I point towards your
body and ask you, whose body is this?
Disciple: It’s my body.
M: You have certain ideas about everything, all ideas are thoughts and all
these we collectively call the mind, whose mind is this?
D: It’s my mind.
M: You agree then that this body that I pointed out to and the mind I spoke
of belong to you?
D: Yes.
M: That means they are your possessions, they belong to you and you are
their possessor?
D: Yes.
M: If you are their possessor then can you be the possessions?
D: No.
M: Then you are neither the body nor the mind but their owner or possessor.
D: Yes.
M: Do you know the owner or the possessor?
D: No
M: Which means you do not know who you are?
D: No
M: Thus if you have no clear knowledge of who you are, all the learning,
greatness and power you believe you have are false! Hence the first lesson
you have to learn is about your own self, you must know who you are, isn’t
it?
D: Yes, indeed.
M: So your primary task is to launch an enquiry into yourself and know who
you are by asking the question: Who am I?
D: Yes
M: Apart from the reasoning that we began with, is there any way, method
or test by which we can determine a particular thing to be ‘not I’ or ‘not
me’?
D; Please tell me, I don’t know.
M: Would it not be to ask as to whether you exist or not in the absence of
that particular thing?
D: Yes, that would be a convincing way.
M: Because if you exist regardless of that particular thing being or not it’s
‘not you’.
D: Agreed.
M: Your body with all its processes going on, we call it the gross body,
while all that you have in mind we call it the subtle body.
D: Dreams as well?
M: While you are awake you know both the gross and the subtle body and
when you are dreaming it is only the subtle body that is operating and giving
you all the experiences.
D: And in deep sleep?
M: In deep sleep the body and world do not exist, the mind has subsided and
with it go both the body and the world.
D: It’s a total blank!
M: You may say so, but your own existence as ‘I am’ was always there. This
existence of the ‘I am’ is experienced by one and all.
D: How so? It was a total blank!
M: Then how do say you slept well or were fast asleep without any content –
which you are now calling a blank?
D: I experienced it, I know it.
M: Which means you were there in spite of the blank.
D: Yes, I was there.
M: The body and the world weren’t there but you were there, which means
the body and the world don’t exist but you always do.
D: The body and the world did not exist for me but for others they did and
they’d tell me so when I woke up, so how can you say that the body and
world don’t exist?
M: Existence and consciousness go together; there cannot be one without the
other. The knowledge that you slept is the evidence of your existence in that
time. Did you have to ask others that you slept or not? It’s your very own
experience independent of others and proves your existence in deep sleep.
D: Yes, it’s my own experience, and nobody else can give true evidence of
my being asleep
M: Which means your existence is self-evident. If the body and the world
too have such an undeniable existence and consciousness why do they (the
body and world) need the evidence of others to prove that they existed in
deep sleep?
D: Their existence is not self-evident.
M: Right, because the evidence of others is needed to do so. I have already
said that existence without consciousness is no existence at all, and since the
knowledge that the body and the world exist in deep sleep is not self-
evident, we can positively assert that their existence is false. Thus, because
no one deny that he existed in deep sleep, one’s own existence in sleep and
the non-existence of the body there must be accepted by all.
D: Then what about the body and world in the waking and dream states?
M: According to the following logical inference: ‘That which seems to exist
at one time and not at another time is actually non-existent even when it
seems to exist’, the body and world are non-existent during the time of their
seeming existence, that is during waking and dream states.
D: What sort of body do we have in deep sleep?
M: In deep sleep, the ego (ahankara – the mind in the form of attachments)
is still alive in the very subtle form of tendencies (vasanas); it is this form
which is that base and cause for the rising of the subtle and gross bodies, and
therefore it is called the causal body. Even in death, it is in this causal body
that we exist. This causal body is not destroyed by the death of the gross
body. The reason for asserting that even this causal body is not ‘I’ is that we
exist there to know even that state to be alien to us. There our existence
alone is real, and we cannot be the form (darkness or ignorance) which we
assume there. Just as we rejected the gross body of the waking state as ‘I am
not this body’, even though it appeared to be ‘I’, and just for the same reason
we rejected the subtle body of the dream state as ‘not I’, let us now also
reject this causal body (darkness or ignorance) of deep sleep as ‘not I’, since
it is only a form which comes on us and goes. Therefore having firmly
eliminated all these three bodies as ‘not I, not I’, what then remains, that
knowledge, the consciousness (chit) of our existence (sat) alone is ‘I’ or the
‘I am’.
(Created from ‘The path of Sri Ramana : Part One’)
Quite obviously you did not exist! You were not there! Or simply
you can say ‘I was not’ or ‘nothing’.
And, quite obviously you also know that a moment would come
when you wouldn’t be ‘something’ or ‘somebody’ or you would be
‘nothing’ again.
When I say ‘I was not’ prior to conception, then what I mean is,
that I was not like the present ‘I am’
But that ‘I’ which could discern this must be there to judge the
absence of the present ‘I am’
Further:
At first ‘no one’ is. Instantly, one is, and then two.
The subject of the talk is: How did these two reduce to one, and
finally to nothing?
Then after the duality has arisen, the sense of being identifies with
the form, and so on.
Since in this state only the sense of being prevails, where is the
need to say even ‘one’?
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