2007-02-22 Genduso Testimony 01

Case 1:03-cr-10220-NMG Document 432 Filed 02/21/08 Page 1 of 263
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS
Criminal Action No. 03-10220-MEL
)
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, )
)
Plaintiff, )
)
v. )
) Day Six of Jury Trial
SEAN BUCCI and CATHERINE )
BUCCI, )
)
Defendants. )
)
BEFORE: The Honorable Morris E. Lasker,

Senior District Judge
John J. Moakley United States Courthouse

Courtroom No. 8
One Courthouse Way
Boston, Massachusetts 02210
Thursday, February 22, 2007
9 a.m.
Marcia G. Patrisso, RPR, CRR

Official Court Reporter
John J. Moakley U.S. Courthouse
One Courthouse Way, Room 3507
Boston, Massachusetts 02210
(617) 737-8728
Mechanical Steno - Computer-Aided Transcript
PDF created with pdfFactory trial version www.pdffactory.com

2
1 APPEARANCES:
2 UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE

By: Peter K. Levitt, Assistant U.S. Attorney
3 John Joseph Moakley Federal Courthouse
One Courthouse Way
4 Boston, Massachusetts 02210
5 - And -
6 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

By: John P. McAdams, Esq.
7 601 D Street NW
Washington, D.C. 20004
8 On Behalf of the Government
9 FEDERAL DEFENDER'S OFFICE

By: Catherine K. Byrne, Esq.
10 Stylianus Sinnis, Esq.
408 Atlantic Avenue - Suite 328
11 Boston, Massachusetts 02210
On Behalf of the Defendant Sean Bucci
12
DENNER PELLEGRINO, LLP
13 By: Robert S. Sinsheimer, Esq.
Nicole Bonasera, Esq.
14 4 Longfellow Place - 35th Floor
Boston, Massachusetts 02114-1634
15 On Behalf of the Defendant Catherine Bucci
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

3
1 I N D E X
2
DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS
3
4 WITNESSES FOR THE

GOVERNMENT:
5
ERIC CARBONE
6
By Mr. Levitt 13 113
7 By Ms. Byrne 55
By Mr. Sinsheimer 92
8
LEIGHA A. GENDUSO
9
By Mr. Levitt 118/170
10 By Ms. Byrne 211
11
E X H I B I T S
12
13 Government's
Exhibit No. Description For ID In Evd.
14
15 No. 82 Court order 119

No. 45B Business cards 179
16 No. 113 Money order 201
17
Defendant No. 1
18 Exhibit No.
19
Exhibit F Letter dated 2/6/07 241
20 Exhibit G Letter 244
21
Defendant No. 2
22 Exhibit No.
23 Exhibit E T-shirt 99 100
24
25

4
1 (The following proceedings were held in open
2 court before the Honorable Morris E. Lasker, United
3 States District Senior Judge, United States District
4 Court, District of Massachusetts, at the John J. Moakley
5 United States Courthouse, One Courthouse Way, Boston,
6 Massachusetts, on February 22, 2007.
7 The defendants, Sean Bucci and Catherine Bucci,
8 are present with counsel. Assistant U.S. Attorneys
9 Peter K. Levitt and John P. McAdams are present.)
10 THE CLERK: All rise.
11 THE COURT: Good morning, everyone.
12 VOICES: Good morning, your Honor.
13 THE COURT: Please be seated. I've come in
14 before the jury because I understand the elder Mr. Bucci
15 is here, and I'm ready to proceed with him.
16 Mr. Bucci, sir, I understand that it's possible
17 that you may take the stand as a witness in this case
18 today?
19 MR. WILLIAM BUCCI: Correct.
20 THE COURT: And I want to be sure that you
21 understand what your legal rights are. I also want you
22 to understand, although I assume you do, that any person
23 who testifies falsely subjects himself to the
24 possibility of prosecution and imprisonment on perjury
25 charges.

5
1 MR. WILLIAM BUCCI: Oh, I understand that.
2 THE COURT: Are you aware of that?
3 MR. WILLIAM BUCCI: Right.
4 THE COURT: And in that connection, if you wish
5 me to appoint counsel to advise you as to how to proceed
6 here -- and I'm not suggesting that any testimony of
7 yours won't be correct; you may want to clear it with
8 someone -- I'm prepared to do that. It's entirely up to
9 you.
10 MR. WILLIAM BUCCI: I don't think it's
11 necessary.
12 THE COURT: Is anybody else asking me to do
13 anything further?
14 MR. LEVITT: Yes, your Honor. The issue is not
15 simply that he could be liable -- could be subject to
16 prosecution for perjury. Mr. Bucci is named in the
17 indictment. It is alleged that he committed criminal
18 conduct in the indictment; therefore --
19 THE COURT: Can you hear this, Mr. Bucci?
20 MR. WILLIAM BUCCI: Yes, I can.
21 MR. LEVITT: Therefore, he has direct
22 exposure -- not just for perjury, but direct exposure --
23 for criminal conduct as alleged in the indictment. It
24 is this issue specifically that we ask the Court to
25 advise Mr. Bucci specifically as to his rights under the

6
1 Fifth Amendment.
2 THE COURT: What counsel has said is that not
3 only do you risk the possibility of being prosecuted if
4 you don't testify accurately, but you're actually named
5 as a person involved here and that you may be questioned
6 about that, and if you make misstatements about that,
7 you would be subject to prosecution.
8 MR. WILLIAM BUCCI: I heard that, yes.
9 THE COURT: Are you satisfied with that?
10 MR. LEVITT: Again, your Honor, not to belabor
11 the point, but it's not just misstatements. If he
12 testifies truthfully as to conduct that is alleged in
13 the indictment, he could be exposing himself to criminal
14 conduct. That's the point.
15 THE COURT: According to counsel, they believe
16 that even if you testify truthfully as to what's stated
17 in the indictment against you -- not against you but as
18 to you -- that you may expose yourself as a result of
19 that testimony to prosecution.
20 Have I got it correct this time?
21 MR. LEVITT: That's correct, your Honor. So I
22 would just ask that the Court advise him of his Fifth
23 Amendment rights with respect to those issues.
24 THE COURT: I will advise you of your Fifth
25 Amendment right that you are not obligated to testify.

7
1 Nobody can require you to testify.
2 Do you understand that?
3 MR. WILLIAM BUCCI: I do.
4 THE COURT: I'm satisfied, gentlemen, he's in a
5 clear-minded condition, seems to understand what I'm
6 saying to him, has been advised of his rights. If there
7 is anybody in the room who wants me to ask Mr. Bucci any
8 more questions for his protection, I will do so;
9 otherwise, it's up to him.
10 MR. SINNIS: No, your Honor.
11 MR. SINSHEIMER: Thank you, your Honor.
12 MR. LEVITT: Thank you, your Honor.
13 THE COURT: Thank you, sir.
14 MR. WILLIAM BUCCI: Thank you.
15 THE COURT: Bring in the jury, please.
16 MR. SINSHEIMER: Judge, before we bring them in
17 may I address very briefly -- I don't know if this is
18 the time you want to do it, but one of the two witnesses
19 today the government -- actually, I think they're
20 calling three -- one of the two witnesses that is not a
21 financial witness is the woman Leigha Genduso.
22 THE COURT: Yes.
23 MR. SINSHEIMER: As the Court recalls, we've had
24 a number of motions in limine all in one way or another,
25 I would suggest, having to do with the Bruton issues.

8
1 And I don't recall that the Court has definitively ruled
2 on them. My recollection is that Court stated we'd sort
3 of play it by ear as they came up. But maybe that puts
4 it a bit colloquially.
5 THE COURT: I thought I had ruled adversely to
6 your position. And it's always subject to review if
7 there's something stated that causes the issue to arise
8 again.
9 MR. SINSHEIMER: Judge, I really don't recall
10 that. May I have another minute on the issue, at least
11 as to the one statement that my client knew? I don't
12 think you ruled on that.
13 MR. LEVITT: Well, your Honor, the issue --
14 there's two different issues here. One is a motion that
15 was filed where Mr. Sinsheimer said that Ms. Genduso
16 should not be able to testify that based on her
17 observations it was obvious that the mother knew. I
18 told Mr. Sinsheimer we wouldn't bring in that kind of
19 evidence. I told the Court that, because she can't
20 testify as to reading somebody's mind.
21 THE COURT: Right.
22 MR. LEVITT: The issue that was the subject
23 earlier of the Bruton motion was Ms. Genduso will
24 testify that she had a conversation with Sean Bucci and
25 that she asked him during the course of the

9
1 conspiracy -- she was a co-conspirator -- she asked him,
2 "Do your parents know what you do?"
3 THE COURT: Yes.
4 MR. LEVITT: And he said, "Yes, they know and
5 they don't care."
6 And that's the issue that I agree with the
7 Court; I think the Court has ruled on.
8 THE COURT: I did. I ruled in favor of the
9 government on that.
10 MR. SINSHEIMER: Well, I object respectfully.
11 And I'm glad I cleared it up, though, because I didn't
12 think you ruled on it. I thought that you had said
13 you'd wait and see how the evidence came in. And as
14 I -- again, your Honor, I don't want to belabor
15 something that you've already ruled on, but if you'd
16 give me two sentences.
17 THE COURT: I'm not preventing you from making
18 an objection to a particular question if you think the
19 situation develops in a different way than the way I
20 understand it to be. But as I understand it to be, I'm
21 denying your application.
22 MR. SINSHEIMER: Thank you.
23 MR. LEVITT: Your Honor, we have a couple of
24 issues with respect to testimony and exhibits that the
25 defense has indicated he intends to use with respect to

10
1 William Bucci. They don't need to be addressed right
2 now. They will need to be addressed before he
3 testifies.
4 THE COURT: All right. I don't want to keep the
5 jury.
6 Madam clerk, will you please bring down the
7 jury.
8 (There is a pause.)
9 LAW CLERK: All rise for the jury.
10 (Jury in at 9:10 a.m.)
11 THE COURT: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
12 JURORS IN UNISON: Good morning.
13 THE COURT: You may be seated. We're ready to
14 proceed.
15 MR. LEVITT: Your Honor, I would start by moving
16 to admit Government Exhibit 1 -- it is a stipulation of
17 the parties as to drug exhibits -- and I would ask to
18 read it to the jury.
19 THE COURT: All right.
20 MR. LEVITT: It is dated February 15, 2007 --
21 THE COURT: Let me explain to the jury what
22 you're about to read.
23 A stipulation, ladies and gentlemen, is an
24 agreement by all the parties concerned as to certain
25 facts. They don't need to be proved otherwise; you can

11
1 just accept them as facts as described in the
2 stipulation.
3 MR. LEVITT: This is signed by all the parties.
4 It's dated February 15, 2007. It's entitled
5 "Stipulation of the Parties as to Drug Exhibits."
6 "The United States of America and the defendants
7 Sean Bucci, Catherine Bucci, through respective counsel,
8 hereby stipulate and agree as follows: One, that the
9 marijuana residue seized by Special Agent Gregg
10 Willoughby during a search of trash obtained from the
11 curb of 23 Marshall Street, North Reading,
12 Massachusetts, on March 28, 2003, and marked as Exhibit
13 2, was analyzed by the Drug Enforcement Administration's
14 northeast laboratory and found to contain marijuana;
15 "Two, that the marijuana residue seized by
16 Special Agent Gregg Willoughby during a search of trash
17 obtained from the curb of 23 Marshall Street, North
18 Reading, Massachusetts, on May 2, 2003, and marked as
19 Exhibit 3, was analyzed by the Drug Enforcement
20 Administration's northeast laboratory and found to
21 contain marijuana;
22 "Three, that the marijuana residue seized by
23 Special Agent Willoughby during a search of trash
24 obtained from the curb of 23 Marshall Street, North
25 Reading, Massachusetts, on May 2, 2003, and marked as

12
1 Exhibit 4, was analyzed by the DEA's northeast
2 laboratory and found to contain marijuana;
3 "Four, that the marijuana residue seized by
4 Special Agent Willoughby pursuant to a search warrant
5 executed at 23 Marshall Street, North Reading,
6 Massachusetts, on June 4, 2003, and marked as Exhibit 5,
7 was analyzed by the DEA's northeast laboratory and found
8 to contain marijuana;
9 "Five, that the marijuana residue seized by
15 "Six, that the marijuana residue seized by
21 "Seven, that the marijuana residue seized by
22 Special Agent Willoughby pursuant to search warrant

13
2 "Eight, that the marijuana residue seized by
3 Special Agent Willoughby" --
4 THE COURT: How many more of them are there?
5 MR. LEVITT: There's 12, your Honor.
6 THE COURT: I don't see any need to read them
7 all out. The exhibit will describe what's covered.
8 As you can hear, and I assume understood, as I
9 understand it, it establishes without dispute that the
10 various batches of a substance seized at various times
11 and places was tested by the DEA and found to be
12 marijuana.
13 MR. LEVITT: That's correct, your Honor. Your
14 Honor, the government calls Eric Carbone.
15 ERIC CARBONE, sworn
16 DIRECT EXAMINATION
17 BY MR. LEVITT:
18 Q. How old are you, Mr. Carbone?
19 A. Excuse me?
20 Q. How old are you?
21 A. Thirty-three, sir.
22 Q. Where did you grow up?
23 A. Danvers, Massachusetts.
24 Q. How far did you go in school?
25 A. I graduated college.

14
1 Q. From where?
2 A. Stonehill College.
3 Q. When?
4 A. 1995.
5 Q. You can pull that microphone closer if that's better
6 for you.
7 What did you get your degree in?
8 A. Bachelor of Science in business administration.
9 Q. You live in Massachusetts now?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Are you married?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Children?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. What do you do for work?
16 A. I'm an exhibit technician.
17 Q. What does that mean?
18 A. I work for a company that manufactures and sells
19 trade show exhibits, so I put them together and ship
20 them.
21 Q. How long have you been doing that?
22 A. It will be two years this June.
23 Q. Have you had a problem with alcohol in your life?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. Did that lead at some point to you going to

15
1 Alcoholics Anonymous?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. When was that?
4 A. 1995.
5 Q. Why did you do that?
6 A. I was arrested for operating under the influence of
7 alcohol.
8 Q. When was that?
9 A. Sometime in 1995.
10 THE COURT: '95, right?
11 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
12 THE COURT: Thank you.
13 BY MR. LEVITT:
14 Q. You did the AA program as part of that?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Have you also used drugs?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. What kind?
19 A. Marijuana.
20 Q. When did you start?
21 A. I tried it once at a young age, 13, and then I
22 basically stopped for a while, and then I picked it up
23 during college and after college.
24 Q. Have you used any other drugs?
25 A. Mushrooms, hash.

16
1 Q. Is it fair to say that marijuana was the drug you
2 used the most?
3 A. I'm sorry. I've used Ecstasy before, too.
4 Q. What's the drug you've used the most?
5 A. Most would be marijuana, sir.
6 Q. You said you picked it up after college?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. You resumed using it after college; is that correct?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. For how long?
11 A. Five or six years or so.
12 Q. How often were you smoking?
13 A. Two or three times a week.
14 Q. When was the last time you smoked marijuana?
15 A. I have smoked recently, like two or three weeks ago.
16 Q. And before then?
17 A. Maybe a year or two ago. I'm not 100 percent sure.
18 Q. Did you also sell drugs in your life?
19 A. Yes, I have.
20 Q. What kind?
21 A. Marijuana.
22 Q. Who was your supplier?
23 A. Sean Bucci.
24 Q. Do you see Sean Bucci in the courtroom today?
25 A. I do, sir.

17
1 Q. Can you point him out?
2 A. (Witness indicates.)
3 Q. Can you identify what he's wearing?
4 A. A blue suit, sir.
5 Q. And can you identify something else about him?
6 THE COURT: I'm sorry?
7 MR. LEVITT: I asked him to identify something
8 else about him because his lawyer's wearing a blue suit,
9 too.
10 THE WITNESS: He's bald.
11 MR. LEVITT: May the record reflect that the
12 witness has identified the defendant?
13 THE COURT: Yes.
14 BY MR. LEVITT:
15 Q. How long have you known Sean Bucci?
16 A. For a period of about 15 or 16 years.
17 Q. What was your relationship with him?
18 A. Close friends.
19 Q. Have you ever had any other marijuana supplier?
20 A. No, sir.
21 Q. In 2004 you were interviewed by law enforcement in
22 connection with this case; do you remember that?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. And you were asked if you ever held money for Sean
25 Bucci; do you recall that?

18
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. And what did you say?
3 A. I said I did not.
4 Q. Is that the truth?
5 A. No, sir.
6 Q. Why did you lie about that?
7 A. At the time I was scared. I didn't want to
8 self-incriminate myself, and I didn't know my rights, so
9 I just denied it at first.
10 Q. Did you subsequently get a lawyer?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Who's that?
13 A. Mr. Robert Lewin.
14 Q. And did you subsequently have another interview, or
15 an interview with the government?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Let me show you what's been marked as Government
18 Exhibit 81, and I'd ask you to take a look at that and
19 tell me if you recognize it.
20 A. (Witness complies.)
21 Q. And is that your signature on the last page?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. And what is this?
24 A. It's a proffer letter protecting me for that one
25 interview.

19
1 Q. And by the way, I think I said that you were --
2 MS. BYRNE: Your Honor, may we approach for a
3 moment regarding the witness's status?
4 THE COURT: Regarding what?
5 MS. BYRNE: The witness's status.
6 THE COURT: Fine. I'm trusting you to raise a
7 significant point.
8 (Discussion at sidebar and out of the hearing of
9 the jury:)
10 MS. BYRNE: Your Honor, I believe that this
11 witness has just testified that he was given a proffer
12 letter by the government that protects him for only the
13 one session that he had with the government. I believe
14 that this witness is going to testify extensively about
15 his criminal involvement in this case. As I see it, he
16 has no protection, apparently; and therefore, he has a
17 Fifth Amendment right.
18 We just went through all of this with Mr. Bucci.
19 I don't know why the government hasn't raised this at
20 this time, but this guy is in serious danger of
21 incriminating himself without protection now.
22 MR. LEVITT: Because I've talked to him and
23 talked to his lawyer about it, and he's talked to his
24 lawyer extensively about it. He'll testify that he
25 understands completely he has no protection, he's talked

20
1 to his lawyer about it repeatedly, and he's prepared to
2 go forward.
3 THE COURT: On those representations, I'll allow
4 it.
5 (In open court:)
6 BY MR. LEVITT:
7 Q. Mr. Carbone, I believe I misspoke when I said you
8 had been approached initially by law enforcement in
9 2004. Does this letter reflect -- refresh your
10 recollection as to when you were first contacted by law
11 enforcement? I'd ask you to look at the date of this
12 letter.
13 A. It must have been 2005, I believe.
14 Q. Is it your recollection that it was shortly
15 before --
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. -- you subsequently came in with your lawyer?
18 A. Yes. Yes.
19 Q. Mr. Carbone, what's your understanding of this
20 letter, Government Exhibit 81?
21 A. My understanding was that that was to protect me
22 from -- in that one meeting.
23 Q. Was it your understanding -- you subsequently
24 testified before the grand jury; is that correct?
25 A. Yes, sir.

21
1 Q. Is it your understanding that this letter protected
2 you in the grand jury?
3 A. It does not protect me in the grand jury.
4 Q. Have you talked to your lawyer about that?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And have you talked to your lawyer about whether
7 this letter protects you in your testimony here today?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And what's your understanding?
10 A. My understanding is that it does not.
11 Q. And have you made a conscious decision based on your
12 conversations with your lawyer to come in here and
13 testify anyways?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Do you have any agreement with the government
16 whatsoever?
17 A. No, sir.
18 Q. Has anyone from the government made you any
19 promises?
20 A. No, sir.
21 Q. When did you start selling marijuana?
22 A. Approximately '93. 1993, '94.
23 Q. Who was your supplier?
24 A. Sean Bucci.
25 Q. Where were you living at that time?

22
1 A. I was in school. I lived on campus at Stonehill
2 College.
3 Q. Where was Sean Bucci living?
4 A. In an apartment in Salem, Massachusetts.
5 Q. During this period how many customers did you have?
6 A. Just one.
7 Q. Who?
8 A. A gentleman named Chris Deuschnap (ph).
9 Q. Who was he? How did you know him?
10 A. He was a boyfriend of my cousin. A cousin of mine's
11 boyfriend.
12 Q. During this time period how much marijuana did you
13 buy from Bucci?
14 A. Basically I was picking up quarter pounds to half
15 pounds.
16 Q. And how many times did you pick up a quarter pound,
17 a half pound from Bucci during this period?
18 A. I'd say about a dozen times.
19 THE COURT: Excuse me. How many?
20 THE WITNESS: Twelve. Around there.
22 BY MR. LEVITT:
23 Q. Did you ever purchase more from Sean Bucci during
24 this period?
25 A. One time I purchased a pound.

23
1 Q. When was that?
2 A. Right around either '94 or '95.
3 Q. And what happened to that?
4 A. I gave it to Chris. And he later told me that he
5 got ripped off and he couldn't repay me, so I basically
6 stopped dealing with him.
7 Q. During this period how would you get the marijuana
8 from Sean Bucci?
9 A. I would just call him up and just arrange to pick it
10 up and bring it to Chris.
11 Q. Where would you pick it up?
12 A. In Salem. His apartment.
13 Q. And during this dozen times or so when you called up
14 Sean Bucci, did he ever not have marijuana to sell you?
15 A. Not to my recollection.
16 Q. Did you ever have to wait?
17 A. Not to my recollection.
18 Q. So what happened after you lost Deuschnap as a
19 customer?
20 A. I just continued my college education and I stopped
21 dealing. And then I started redealing maybe in 1999.
22 Q. Well, after you stopped in 1995, did you still
23 socialize with Sean Bucci?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. Where?

24
1 A. In Salem.
2 Q. And during this period -- did he move at some point?
3 A. He used -- in Salem he used to have an apartment on
4 the bottom floor, and then he moved upstairs.
5 Q. And at some point did he move out of Salem?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. When was that?
8 A. I believe it was in '98.
9 Q. So during this period after you stopped dealing with
10 Deuschnap, before Sean Bucci moved, did you still get
11 marijuana from Sean Bucci for personal use?
12 A. Yes. Through other friends, but yes.
13 Q. What do you mean, "through other friends, but yes"?
14 A. People that were living in the apartment with him
15 would buy off of Sean and I would smoke their stuff.
16 Q. Who else was living in the apartment?
17 A. I believe a man named Jan Jefgood. And I can't
18 remember if Chris Bleicher was living there or not. I'm
19 not 100 percent sure.
20 Q. Were there other people around that apartment, Sean
21 Bucci's apartment?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And you hung around there?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And smoked marijuana?

25
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Who else other than Jan Jefgood hung around the area
3 and smoked marijuana?
4 A. Jason Carnes, Chris Bleicher, a kid named John
5 Madden, a person named Jason Alane (ph), and another
6 person named Bocerri.
7 Q. And who supplied the marijuana to all these folks?
8 A. Sean.
9 Q. Did you ever see other people come to that apartment
10 while you were hanging out there?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Could you describe what you saw?
13 A. Sometimes on a weekend night I would be hanging in
14 the living room of his apartment and I would notice just
15 people coming in and out, a lot of people frequently.
16 Q. And when they came, where would they go?
17 A. They would walk straight back into his room.
18 Q. Into whose room?
19 A. Sean's.
20 Q. Did they go in there with anyone?
21 A. Excuse me?
22 Q. Did they go in there with anyone?
23 A. I believe Sean was in there. Usually that one
24 person.
25 Q. Can you describe what you mean? I'm not quite

26
1 following you.
2 A. I don't understand -- did they go in there with
3 anybody?
4 Q. Was there anybody else in the room?
5 A. Oh, yeah. I believe Sean was in there. Yes.
6 Q. Okay. And then what would happen?
7 A. I would just see people walk out.
8 Q. Did any of those people ever stop and hang out with
9 you guys?
10 A. Yeah, a few people that knew other people in the
11 apartment would sit down and roll up a joint and smoke.
12 Q. During this time did you see anything in Sean
13 Bucci's bedroom?
14 A. I saw a safe there.
15 Q. Did you see anything in it?
16 A. Notebooks and a small scale.
17 Q. Did you ever see money?
18 A. I must have seen money. Not large amounts.
19 Q. During this time you were hanging out in Sean
20 Bucci's apartment, did you ever see a large amount of
21 marijuana?
22 A. One time I did, yes.
23 Q. Where were you?
24 A. I was in his apartment in his kitchen and he had a
25 blue tote and he opened it up and it was a good size

27
1 bale or whatever you would call it.
2 Q. Was anybody else in the kitchen with you?
3 A. Yeah, a friend of mine named Matt Amadeo.
4 Q. How much marijuana did Sean Bucci show you at that
5 time?
6 A. If I had to guess, I would say about 20 pounds.
7 Q. Is that approximation based on your experience with
8 marijuana?
9 A. Yeah, an approximation. Yes, sir.
10 Q. Now, you said that you started selling again; is
11 that correct?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. And that was about when?
14 A. Around in the '99-2000.
15 Q. And who was your supplier?
16 A. Sean Bucci.
17 Q. Where would you pick up the marijuana?
18 A. At Marshall Street in North Reading.
19 Q. I show you Government Exhibit 14. Do you recognize
20 that house?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. What house is that?
23 A. That is, I believe, 23 Marshall Street, North
24 Reading.
25 Q. Is that where you picked up the marijuana?

28
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Is that where Sean was living?
3 A. Yes, sir.
5 Exhibit 43F. What's that?
6 A. That's the backyard with the pool. There's a cabana
7 house and a bricked-in grill.
8 Q. And starting in 1999, how long did you sell
9 marijuana for?
10 A. Right up until we got arrested.
11 THE COURT: I didn't hear you.
12 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, sir.
13 Right up until we got arrested in 2003.
14 BY MR. LEVITT:
15 Q. During this period of 1998 to 2003, what were you
16 doing for work?
17 A. I owned a coffeehouse in Beverly, Massachusetts.
18 Q. What's that called?
19 A. The Northern Grind Coffeehouse.
20 Q. Did you own it with anyone else?
21 A. Yes. A gentleman named John Madden.
22 Q. During this period 1998 to 2003, how many customers
23 did you have? For your marijuana business, not for the
24 Northern Grind.
25 A. Approximately I had five or six.

29
1 Q. Who?
2 A. John Madden, a cousin of his named Russ, a kid named
3 Marcus, another kid named Brendan Cruz, another guy
4 named Anthony, and later on my brother-in-law.
5 Q. What's his name?
6 A. Vincent.
7 Q. Approximately how many times a year during this
8 period were you buying marijuana from Sean Bucci?
9 A. Anywhere from six to eight times a year.
10 Q. Did it vary over the years?
11 A. It varied.
12 Q. And during this period, approximately how much of
13 the time were you buying from Sean Bucci?
14 A. That varied, too. Between five and ten pounds.
15 Q. Did you ever buy any more than ten pounds?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. How much?
18 A. It might have been up to 15.
19 Q. How many times?
20 A. Two, maybe three.
21 Q. Why?
22 A. Just to stock up. Sometimes a drought would be
23 coming and I'd be forewarned and I would stock up.
24 Q. How much was Sean Bucci charging you per pound?
25 A. I can't remember the exact amount. It was between

30
1 1100 and 1300.
2 THE COURT: Per what?
3 THE WITNESS: Per pound. I'm sorry, sir. Per
4 pound.
5 BY MR. LEVITT:
6 Q. And how would you pay?
7 A. I would pay cash.
8 Q. On delivery or was it fronted to him?
9 A. Always on delivery.
10 Q. And how much were you selling it for?
11 A. Basically I marked it up $100 a pound.
12 Q. Where would you pick up the marijuana from Sean
13 Bucci during this period?
14 A. North Reading.
15 Q. At 23 Marshall Street?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Where specifically?
18 A. It varied, but usually in that middle room right
19 above the garage. The middle set of three windows.
20 Q. Over here?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Where else? You said it varied.
23 A. I remember one time it was just in one of his
24 kitchen cubbies. It was all in a brown bag, and I just
25 picked it up there. And a couple of times I picked up

31
1 down in his basement.
2 Q. Could you describe this room above the garage?
3 A. It was kind of set up like an office. There were a
4 couple of chairs in there, small table with a money
5 counter. I believe there was a safe in there. And then
6 there was a closet. I don't know what was in the
7 closet, though.
8 Q. Did you ever help Sean Bucci process marijuana
9 during this period?
10 A. Yes.
12 A. It could have been around three to five times.
13 Q. Where did you do that?
14 A. Basically in -- I believe it was in the room right
15 behind the garage. There was a door behind the garage.
16 And it was kind of like the basement.
17 Q. To the right or left when you walk in?
18 A. When you walk in to the right behind the garage.
19 Q. Can you describe what you saw on those occasions?
20 A. A large amount of marijuana; a big triple beam
21 scale, I guess you would call it; and boxes of Ziploc
22 bags.
23 Q. How many bales did you see on those occasions?
24 A. Between ten and 20.
25 Q. And what did you do?

32
1 A. Well, he would ask me to break it up and just fill
2 the one-gallon Ziploc bag, and he would weigh it out.
3 Q. Do you know how much each of the bales weighed?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. Did they have any markings on them?
6 A. They did have numbers on them, yes, sir.
7 Q. Do you understand those to be the amounts they
8 weighed?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. Do you recall what those numbers were?
11 A. Ten jumps out in my head, but I'm not exactly 100
12 percent sure what the numbers said.
13 Q. Can you describe how the bales were packaged?
14 A. They were shrink-wrapped.
15 Q. Do you know how often Sean Bucci was getting
16 deliveries of marijuana during this time?
17 A. I believe it was like once a month.
18 THE COURT: How do you know that?
19 THE WITNESS: That's what he would tell me.
20 BY MR. LEVITT:
21 Q. Who told you that?
22 A. Sean. I would either call him or he would call me.
23 Q. Can you describe what you mean?
24 A. I would call him and say, "How's things going?" And
25 he'd say either it will be this week or next week, but

33
1 it was usually once a month.
2 Q. So that was an indication from you as to whether
3 there was a shipment coming in?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Did you guys use any kind of code?
6 A. Yes. Sometimes he would say "tickets" or "tires"
7 or...
8 Q. Did you ever go on any trips with Sean Bucci?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. How many?
11 A. Two.
12 Q. Where?
13 A. One to Amsterdam and one to Aruba.
14 Q. When did you go to Amsterdam?
15 A. I believe that was at the end of 2000.
16 Q. Who went?
17 A. Sean went, I went, Chris Bleicher, Jason Carnes,
18 John Madden, Michael Farrell. I believe that's it.
19 Q. How long did you go for?
20 A. I believe it was a long weekend.
21 Q. What was the occasion?
22 A. I was getting married that March, so it was kind of
23 like my bachelor party.
24 Q. How did you get to the airport?
25 A. We were picked up in a limousine.

34
1 Q. Did they have anything?
2 A. They had a bottle of Dom Perignon.
3 Q. Where did you stay in Amsterdam?
4 A. I think it was called the Golden Tulip. It was a
5 four-star hotel.
6 THE COURT: You're talking about Amsterdam,
7 Holland?
8 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
9 BY MR. LEVITT:
10 Q. When did you go to Aruba?
11 A. I believe it was 2002.
12 Q. Who did you go with?
13 A. Chris Bleicher, Jan Jefgood and Sean.
14 Q. Why did you go?
15 A. Sean was thinking about opening up a business out
16 there, and he wanted to take me out there to see what I
17 thought about the area and wanted my opinion. And I
18 also believe he took Jan Jefgood because he was getting
19 married several months after that, so it was kind of a
20 trip for him, too.
21 Q. Who paid for your ticket?
22 A. Sean did.
23 Q. Who paid for your hotel?
24 A. Sean did.
25 Q. And how long were you there?

35
1 A. Again, I believe that was another, like, long
2 weekend type of trip.
3 Q. Do you remember where you stayed?
4 A. I believe it was called the Costa Linda.
5 Q. And did you look at places while you were down there
6 with Sean Bucci?
7 A. Yeah, we drove by a few business areas and
8 residential areas.
9 Q. Why did you look at residential areas?
10 A. He told me he was interested in buying a house down
11 there.
12 Q. Did he tell you how much the houses were going for
13 down there?
14 A. He showed me one on the website that was right
15 around 350,000.
16 Q. Did Sean Bucci ever talk to you about opening a
17 nightclub in Aruba?
18 MS. BYRNE: Objection to leading at this point,
19 your Honor.
20 THE COURT: Sustained.
21 BY MR. LEVITT:
22 Q. Did Sean Bucci ever talk to you about opening
23 anything else in Aruba?
24 A. I believe he wanted to open, like, a clam shack type
25 of place, a seafood type of restaurant, small takeout.

36
1 Q. Did he talk to you about anything else?
2 A. I believe he was trying to -- thinking about opening
3 up a nightclub, but I don't know how serious he was. I
4 don't know.
6 Exhibit 66A. Do you recognize that?
7 A. Yeah, that was out in Aruba.
8 Q. Who's that?
9 MR. SINSHEIMER: What number is that, Mr.
10 Levitt? I apologize.
11 MR. LEVITT: 66A.
12 MR. SINSHEIMER: Thank you, sir.
13 BY MR. LEVITT:
14 Q. Who's that?
15 A. That's Jan Jefgood.
16 Q. And that?
17 A. Chris Bleicher.
18 Q. That?
19 A. Excuse me. Sean Bucci.
20 Q. That?
21 A. Eric Carbone.
22 Q. That's you?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. And that?
25 A. J.Z.

37
1 Q. Do you know his real name?
2 A. I would think his first name is Jason, and I think
3 his last name might have been Zeramby. I'm not 100
4 percent sure.
5 Q. I'll show you 66C. Do you recognize this fellow
6 back here?
7 A. That's Darren Martin.
8 Q. I show you 66D. Do you recognize these folks?
9 A. That's me and J.Z. And that guy on the end, I think
10 I might have met him before, but I don't remember his
11 name.
12 Q. What are you doing in this picture?
13 A. I believe we're rolling a marijuana joint and
14 smoking.
15 Q. All these folks that you mentioned in this -- in
16 66A, any of them marijuana customers of Sean Bucci?
17 A. I believe they all were at one point.
18 Q. Did you ever have a conversation with Sean Bucci
19 about this fellow, J.Z.?
20 A. He told me he was a good guy and a good client.
21 Q. What did you take that to mean, "good client"?
22 A. That he always paid? I don't know.
23 Q. I show you Government Exhibit 40D. Do you recognize
24 that?
25 A. It looks like a list.

38
1 MS. BYRNE: Objection, your Honor.
2 THE COURT: Have you seen it before?
3 BY MR. LEVITT:
4 Q. Have you seen it before?
5 A. I saw it in a meeting with you. Have I physically
6 seen that piece of paper before? I can't say.
7 Q. Well, when you met with me and agents, did we show
8 you this?
9 A. Yes, you did.
10 Q. Do you recognize your name there?
11 A. That is my name, sir.
12 Q. And do you know what that represents, the 18,600?
13 A. That would -- to my knowledge, that would have to be
14 money that he collected off of me because I always paid
15 in cash.
16 Q. That he collected for what?
17 A. It would have to be for marijuana, sir.
18 Q. I show you Exhibit 40A. Is that the person you
19 identified as J.Z. in the picture?
20 A. I would imagine, yes, sir.
21 Q. Are you aware of Sean Bucci buying any cars or
22 boats?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. What?
25 A. Well, he usually always had, like, a used car, but I

39
1 can't remember what year he bought a new Avalanche. A
2 Chevy Avalanche.
3 Q. What other cars did they have at the time that you
4 knew?
5 A. This was after the Avalanche, he bought like some
6 sort of an antique hotrod car.
7 Q. What did it look like?
8 A. From what I remember it was yellow, and it had big
9 tires in the back. And it was like a two-seater
10 roadster.
11 Q. What happened to that?
12 A. I believe he sold it.
13 Q. Did he have anything else?
14 A. He did buy a boat, but I never saw it. He told me
15 he bought a boat.
16 Q. Do you know of something called 911 Productions?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Do you know what that is?
19 A. That was their dee-jay business.
20 Q. Whose dee-jay business?
21 A. I believe it was Sean's, and from what I understood,
22 it was Chris Bleicher's and Jason Carnes' too, and Eric
23 Remens', but I don't know exactly.
24 Q. Do you know where they dee-jayed?
25 A. Local bars in Salem and Beverly.

40
1 Q. How often?
2 A. Anywhere from three or four or five nights, maybe.
3 Q. Do you know if Bleicher, Carnes and Remins had other
4 jobs, other jobs other than dee-jaying?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. What did they do?
7 A. I believe Chris Bleicher was a bill collector; Jason
8 Carnes also was collecting bills, and then he was out of
9 work for a while, and then he started just doing odd
10 jobs and stuff, I believe, and then he -- then he was
11 selling mortgages; and Eric Remins, he was just, like --
12 took on laborer jobs as far as I know.
13 Q. Did Sean Bucci have any other jobs that you're aware
14 of?
15 A. Not that I know of, sir.
16 Q. Have you heard of something called Rocktober Fest?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. What is that?
19 A. That was the concert that -- outdoor concert in
20 Salem that 911 Productions put on.
21 Q. Do you remember when that was?
22 A. I think it was back in '97. I'm not 100 percent
23 sure.
24 Q. Did you ever talk with Sean Bucci about it?
25 A. When it was over, yes.

41
1 Q. What did he say about it?
2 A. He said it cost him about $30,000.
3 Q. He lost $30,000?
4 A. Yeah. It wasn't too successful, basically.
5 Q. Did he ever do it again?
6 A. Did he? No.
8 about 23 Marshall Street?
9 A. Yeah, I've had conversations.
10 Q. Did you ever have a conversation with him about him
11 buying it?
12 A. After he bought it he told me --
13 MR. SINSHEIMER: I object. Can I come to
14 sidebar, please, your Honor?
16 the jury:)
17 MR. SINSHEIMER: Judge, I just want to preserve
18 every objection that I've already made with respect to
19 Ms. Genduso: That same type of Bruton objection that
20 anything that Sean Bucci said can arguably come in
21 against Sean Bucci but it can't come in against my
22 client. I would ask for the strongest possible curative
23 instructions as soon as the testimony -- I mean, as soon
24 as the specific statement is made. There's no evidence
25 that this is in furtherance of any conspiracy with my

42
1 client, so if it comes in, it comes in against Sean
2 Bucci alone, and I object to it.
3 MR. LEVITT: Well, I mean, he's going to say, as
4 far as I know, that he bought it at auction for
5 $297,000.
6 THE COURT: That's all?
7 MR. LEVITT: Yeah.
8 MR. SINSHEIMER: I still want the curative
9 instruction so it doesn't come in against my client, and
10 I think the jury needs to hear that right now.
11 THE COURT: If he's not referring to her in any
12 way, I'm not going to give an instruction.
13 MR. LEVITT: My understanding of what he's going
14 to say --
15 MR. SINSHEIMER: I still object respectfully.
16 (In open court:)
17 BY MR. LEVITT:
18 Q. Can you describe the conversation you had with Sean
19 Bucci about the house?
20 A. The one I can remember when he bought it, he bought
21 it at auction and he got a real good deal on it.
22 Q. Do you remember how much he said it cost him?
23 A. I think he said somewhere around $300,000.
24 Q. Do you know Sean Bucci's parents?
25 A. Yes, I do.

43
1 Q. Do you know Catherine Bucci?
2 A. Yes, I do.
3 Q. Do you see her in court today?
4 A. Yes, I do.
5 MR. SINSHEIMER: Stipulate, your Honor, she's
6 here.
8 MR. SINSHEIMER: She's here. She's identified.
9 THE COURT: All right. I understand. He's
10 entitled to ask that question.
11 BY MR. LEVITT:
12 Q. Did you ever see them at 23 Marshall Street?
13 A. A few times.
14 Q. For what?
15 A. Sean would have a Fourth of July party, and a few
16 times I saw them there.
17 Q. Did Catherine Bucci ever live at 23 Marshall Street?
18 A. No, sir.
19 Q. Did Wayne Bucci ever live at 23 Marshall Street?
20 A. Not to my knowledge, no, sir.
21 Q. Did you ever talk to Sean Bucci about another house?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Do you recall when that was?
24 A. I don't remember the exact date, but I remember he
25 was -- he wanted to try to make some money off of real

44
1 estate. And I tried telling him to buy multi-family
2 houses, and he ended up buying a single-family house in
3 Topsfield.
4 Q. Did you ever see that house?
5 A. Yes, I did, sir.
6 Q. Can you describe it?
7 A. It was a good-sized house. It was a colonial in
8 a -- a nice colonial-style house in a nice neighborhood.
9 Q. Did you ever go inside the house?
10 A. Yes, one time I helped him paint a room in there.
11 Q. What kind of shape was it in?
12 A. It needed a lot of work.
13 Q. And do you know if he did work on the house?
14 A. I believe he did more exterior work, but I don't
15 know to the extent of what he did on the interior.
16 Q. Do you know what hydroponic marijuana is?
17 A. Kind of, yes, sir.
18 Q. What's your understanding as to what it is?
19 A. My understanding is it's marijuana grown indoors
20 with certain lights and certain controlled conditions.
21 Q. Did you ever have a conversation --
22 MS. BYRNE: Objection. Motion to strike, your
23 Honor, regarding relevance.
24 THE COURT: Overruled.
25 BY MR. LEVITT:

45
2 about hydroponic marijuana?
3 THE COURT: About what?
4 MR. LEVITT: Hydroponic marijuana.
5 THE WITNESS: Yes.
6 BY MR. LEVITT:
8 A. Not the exact date, but I just remember him saying
9 that he was thinking about renting a warehouse and
10 growing it.
11 Q. Have you ever heard of something called
12 WhosARat.com?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Have you seen it?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Are you on it?
17 A. I don't know. Probably after this, but I don't know
18 now.
19 Q. Is it your understanding that somebody who
20 cooperates with law enforcement is more likely or less
21 likely to end up on WhosARat.com?
23 THE COURT: Sustained. He's not an expert, is
24 he?
25 MR. LEVITT: Well, your Honor, respectfully --

46
1 THE COURT: Besides, the jury's already
2 acquainted with the subject.
3 MR. LEVITT: That's fine.
4 BY MR. LEVITT:
5 Q. Were you working on June 4, 2003?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Where?
8 A. Northern Grind Coffeehouse.
9 Q. Anything memorable happen that day?
10 THE COURT: When?
11 MR. LEVITT: June 4, 2003.
12 THE WITNESS: I believe that was the day he was
13 arrested.
14 BY MR. LEVITT:
15 Q. How did you find out about that?
16 A. I got a phone call from Christian Bleicher.
17 Q. Anything else happen that day?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. What?
20 A. Sean's girlfriend came by the coffeehouse
21 distraught.
22 Q. Who was Sean's girlfriend?
23 A. Leigha "Genduso" or "Genduso."
24 Q. Did you have a conversation with her?
25 A. Yes, sir.

47
1 Q. What did she say?
2 A. She told me that she made it out of the house with
3 some money, and she was scared and didn't know what to
4 do with it.
6 A. Well, she asked me if I could hold on to it. And I
7 said, "I can't do anything for you now, in my place of
8 business. If you want to meet me after, I will take the
9 money."
10 Q. And at some point did Leigha Genduso give you
11 something to hold?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. What did she give you?
14 A. It was a box of money.
15 Q. When was that?
16 A. I believe it was that same day.
17 Q. What was in the box?
18 A. Money.
19 Q. How was it packaged?
20 A. It was wrapped up in bricks. I later determined
21 they were $5,000 bricks.
22 Q. Approximately how much money was in the box?
23 A. It was a good-sized box. It was a box like a pair
24 of boots would come in -- I believe to be a pair of
25 boots. Like fancy, long boots from a female.

48
1 Q. Two feet, is that what you're indicating?
2 A. Maybe. Maybe a little bit like 19 or 20 inches by
3 whatever high.
4 Q. A foot?
5 A. Maybe a little bit less.
6 Q. And was it full of money?
7 A. Yes, sir, it was full of money.
8 Q. What did you do with the box of money?
9 A. She gave it to me in the driveway of my house in
10 West Peabody and I put it in the trunk of my car, and
11 the next morning I drove it to Beverly; near my business
12 I rented a garage, a storage garage, and I put it up in
13 the ceiling tile of the loft.
14 Q. I'm sorry. I didn't hear you.
15 A. I put it up in the ceiling of the loft so it would
16 be hid.
17 Q. At some point did Ms. Genduso bring you something
18 else?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. What?
21 A. She met me later with two safes.
22 Q. When was that?
23 A. I'd have to say a month or two after the box of
24 money.
25 Q. Did she tell you where the safes came from?

49
1 A. She told me two different stories. One time she
2 told me that it came from somewhere near her family's
3 area, which was around Worcester, and another time she
4 told me she got it from a lawyer's office.
5 THE COURT: And this was about what, we're
6 talking about?
7 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry?
8 THE COURT: What was the subject about?
9 THE WITNESS: Oh, where she got the safes.
10 THE COURT: Okay.
11 BY MR. LEVITT:
12 Q. Did she say where the safes originally came from?
13 A. She said they were Sean's.
14 Q. When she brought them to you, where did she bring
15 them to you? Where were you?
16 A. I met her on the Route 1 approach to Saugus.
17 Q. Did you have a conversation with her at that time?
18 A. Yeah.
19 Q. Describe the conversation.
20 A. Well, she just said she took a while to get out of
21 Boston. I said something like, "To go through Boston or
22 get out?" And she said, "No, to get out. I came back
23 from the lawyer's office."
24 Q. Did she say to you what lawyer?
25 A. I believe it was Gary Zerola.

50
1 Q. Where did you put the safes?
2 A. I put those in the garage.
3 THE COURT: Would you show us with your hands
4 how big the safes were.
5 THE WITNESS: They were like home safes that you
6 would buy in, like, Staples. Maybe like this big --
7 THE COURT: Okay.
8 THE WITNESS: -- by this deep.
9 BY MR. LEVITT:
10 Q. So you're indicating a foot and a half?
11 A. Yeah, maybe. Yeah.
12 Q. And width?
13 A. Like 20 inches.
14 Q. Did you ever open the safes?
15 A. No, sir.
17 about the safes?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Where?
20 A. When he was in prison, sir.
22 MR. SINSHEIMER: Judge, same objection.
24 BY MR. LEVITT:
25 Q. Would you describe the conversation you had with

51
1 Sean Bucci about the safes.
2 A. He asked me if I could try to open them up because
3 he wanted to know how much money was in one of them. He
4 believed one had a large sum of money in it. I don't
5 know how much.
6 Q. And did he give you some information to help you try
7 to open them?
8 A. Yes; he gave me a combination.
9 Q. And did you try to use it?
10 A. Yes. I was unsuccessful.
11 THE COURT: Did you succeed in opening it?
12 THE WITNESS: No, sir.
13 BY MR. LEVITT:
14 Q. Now, the --
15 THE COURT: You tried?
16 THE WITNESS: Yeah. There were two different
17 safes, and I didn't know which the combination was for,
18 the one or the other. And the place I had them stored
19 at, it didn't have a lock on the door and I didn't want
20 someone to walk in, and I knew people around the area.
21 So I just tried it once quick, and the next day I would
22 try it again on another safe, and I just gave up.
23 BY MR. LEVITT:
24 Q. The box of money, did you ever take money out of
25 that?

52
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Why?
3 A. I was told if Leigha needed money, to give her
4 money.
5 Q. Who told you that?
6 A. Sean.
7 Q. Did you have some sort of arrangement with
8 Ms. Genduso?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. What was that?
11 A. She would call me and say if she needed one or two,
12 and I understood that to be a brick.
13 Q. One or two bricks?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. How often was she taking money from the box?
16 A. Once, maybe twice a month.
17 Q. Did you ever have any conversations with Sean Bucci
18 about that?
19 A. One time when I went to visit him I asked him if it
20 was okay just to keep on giving her money because she
21 was going through it pretty quick, and he said he
22 trusted her, so it was okay.
23 Q. Did you ever pay for anything for Sean Bucci during
24 this time?
25 A. Yes, sir.

53
1 Q. What?
2 A. A bank check for a lawyer.
3 Q. How much?
4 A. I believe it was $9,000.
6 A. I believe I did that twice.
7 Q. Same amount?
8 A. I believe so.
9 Q. And then did you take any money out of the money
10 box?
11 A. I reimbursed myself; yes.
12 Q. Both times?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Why did you make these payments to the lawyers?
15 A. He asked me to do him a favor, and I just figured I
16 owed him a favor.
17 Q. Who asked you?
18 A. Sean.
19 Q. Do you remember the lawyers' names?
20 A. I believe one was Goldstein. I can't remember the
21 other one.
22 Q. At some point did you have a further conversation
23 with Sean Bucci about the safes?
24 A. Well, I delivered them to him when he was on house
25 arrest.

54
1 Q. Where?
2 A. I believe it was in Peabody, at his uncle's house.
3 Q. Did you deliver the money box as well?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. Did Bucci do anything with the safes at that time?
6 A. Yes, sir. He opened them.
7 Q. What was his reaction when he opened them?
8 A. He was pretty disturbed.
9 Q. Did he say why?
10 A. He thought there was money in there and he thought
11 that someone ripped him off.
12 Q. Was there anything in the safes?
13 A. I believe one had some personal stuff, but the other
14 one was pretty much empty, the one that I believe he
15 thought had money in it.
16 Q. During the time that you would visit Sean Bucci in
17 prison, did you ever have a conversation with him about
18 Darren Martin?
19 A. I may have, but I don't really remember the extent
20 of it.
21 Q. Do you know who Darren Martin is?
22 A. Yes, I do.
24 about a lawyer?
25 MS. BYRNE: Objection regarding leading again,

55
1 your Honor.
3 BY MR. LEVITT:
4 Q. Do you recall talking to Sean Bucci about Darren
5 Martin?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Do you recall what you talked about?
10 THE WITNESS: I think at one time I was talking
11 to him he wasn't worried about Darren, like, testifying
12 against him or anything because I believe that he helped
13 pay for his lawyer. So he wasn't worried about it.
14 MR. LEVITT: Nothing else.
15 CROSS-EXAMINATION
16 BY MS. BYRNE:
17 Q. Mr. Carbone, you testified that you originally spoke
18 to Agent Harriman, right?
19 A. I believe that was his name, yes.
20 Q. And he was -- he identified himself as an agent from
21 the IRS, right?
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. A federal agent, right? He worked with the federal
24 government, right?
25 A. I believe so.

56
1 Q. And he came -- I think he actually came to your
2 home, right?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And he wanted to talk to you about what you knew
5 about Sean Bucci, right?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And you agreed to talk to him, right?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. You agreed to meet him, right?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. You went, actually, and met him somewhere else, not
12 your home, right?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And he asked you questions that made you very
15 nervous, right?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And you say that you lied to him, right?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Because you were nervous and you didn't want to
20 incriminate yourself, right?
21 A. Correct.
22 Q. So you got yourself an attorney?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. And you told the attorney all your concerns?
25 A. Correct.

57
1 Q. And that you were concerned that you would -- could
2 be involved in a federal criminal drug case, right?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. And you asked that attorney to help you in your
5 dealings with the government, right?
6 A. I asked the attorney for advice.
7 Q. Right. And you were seeking his help, of course.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And he did help, right?
10 A. He gave me advice.
11 Q. Well, he worked out a -- well, he -- you agreed to
12 talk to the prosecutor again -- or talk to the
13 prosecutor and the agent again, right?
14 A. He advised me to, yes.
15 Q. Right. But not until you got a letter to protect
16 you, right?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And you were shown that letter earlier today, and
19 I've just put it up on the screen here. Can you see
20 that?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. You've seen that letter before, right?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And that's dated August 25, 2005 --
25 A. Yes.

58
1 Q. -- right?
2 And that was the day that you met with Mr. Levitt,
3 the prosecutor here, right? The first time you met him?
4 A. (Nonverbal response.)
5 Q. And with Agent Harriman, correct?
6 A. I believe so.
7 Q. Well, you met with Mr. Levitt on numerous occasions;
8 isn't that right?
9 A. Since then?
10 Q. Yes, since then.
11 A. About four, five times.
12 Q. Four or five times. To prepare for your testimony
13 in this case, right?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Now, when you -- but before you spoke to Mr. Levitt
16 and Mister -- and Agent Harriman, your attorney got that
17 letter there from the prosecutor, correct? And there's
18 Mr. Levitt's signature on the bottom, right?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. All right. And the letter says that "No statements
21 made or other information provided by Eric Carbone will
22 be used by the United States directly against him except
23 for purposes of cross-examination and/or impeachment.
24 Should he offer any statements or information different
25 from statements made or information provided by him

59
1 during this proffer or in a prosecution of Eric Carbone
2 based on false statements made or false information
3 provided by Eric Carbone..."
4 In other words, this letter, to you, meant that
5 whatever you told them was not going to be used against
6 you unless you lied, right? That's the way you
7 understood it.
8 A. In that meeting.
9 Q. At that meeting.
10 A. I knew when I was up before the grand jury that I
11 had no protection.
12 Q. And who told you that?
13 A. My lawyer and Mr. Levitt.
14 Q. All right. But at that meeting, as you said, before
15 you went into the grand jury when you talked to Mr.
16 Levitt you understood that this letter protected you; is
17 that right?
18 A. At the meeting; yes.
19 Q. Okay. And in your view you were going to say the
20 same thing at the meeting as you were going to say at
21 the grand jury, right?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And you are concerned about your criminal exposure,
24 aren't you, Mr. Carbone?
25 A. Yes.

60
1 Q. And you are concerned about what this government
2 could do to you in this case, aren't you, sir?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. You have worked with Mr. Levitt and with the agents
5 preparing for this case, right?
6 A. I've prepared, yes.
7 Q. And actually, Mr. Carbone, you don't expect to be
8 prosecuted after you testify today, do you, sir?
9 A. I'm hoping not to be.
10 Q. And by the way, when you did speak to your attorney
11 about testifying at the grand jury and talking to the
12 prosecutors, you -- he explained your option to you,
13 right?
14 A. He advised me to tell the truth and I will be less
15 likely to get into trouble.
16 Q. And by the way, the important thing is that the
17 government believes you're telling the truth, right?
18 THE COURT: Important to whom?
19 BY MR. LEVITT:
20 Q. The important thing -- you understand that what's
21 important is that the government believes that you're
22 telling the truth so you don't get prosecuted for
23 perjury, right?
24 A. The important thing to me is telling the truth.
25 Q. And that the government believes you, right?

61
1 A. Yeah, I guess.
2 Q. Now, back on August 19th, prior to your sit-down
3 with the prosecutor and Agent Harriman, you said you met
4 with Agent Harriman by yourself, right?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And that's when -- the time that he came to your
7 home. And then you set up a meeting and you met with
8 him, right?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. You agreed to answer his questions, correct? At
11 that time you answered his questions?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And he told you that he just needed you to be
14 truthful with him, right?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. But you weren't, were you?
17 A. No.
18 Q. He asked you whether you had held money for Sean
19 Bucci, right?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. And you lied and you said no, right?
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. He asked you whether you'd ever taken money from
24 Leigha Genduso, right?
25 A. He asked me if I ever used that money myself, took

62
1 that money and put it in my personal bank account.
2 Q. He asked if you'd ever -- well, you told him you
3 never took receipt of cash from Leigha Genduso, correct?
4 That first meeting.
5 A. Never took cash from her?
6 Q. Right.
7 A. Yeah, I never took cash from her.
8 Q. Well, you took a box filled with money from Leigha
9 Genduso, didn't you, sir?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And that's what he was asking you about, wasn't it?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. But you told him you never took cash from Leigha
14 Genduso. That's what you told him, right?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. You told him you never met up -- periodically met up
17 with Leigha to give her cash, right? That's what you
18 told him.
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. That was a lie, right?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. You said you paid the first $10,000 retainer to
23 Sean's lawyer immediately after Sean's arrest. Well,
24 first of all, you didn't pay any money to any lawyer
25 immediately after Sean's arrest, did you?

63
1 A. I don't know if it was immediately.
2 Q. It was months later, wasn't it?
3 A. It could have been, yes.
4 Q. So that wasn't true. You described that the money
5 came from your own savings to pay for the lawyer, right?
6 But that wasn't true either, was it?
7 A. One time I believe it was, if not both, yes.
8 Q. Well, your own savings that weren't paid back?
9 A. Well, I took it from -- money from my house, and I
10 reimbursed myself.
11 Q. Right. But you told Agent Harriman, the IRS agent
12 who was investigating this case when you met with him
13 the first time, that the money that you paid for Sean's
14 lawyer has not been paid back, right? That's what you
15 told him when you first met with him --
16 A. I'm trying to remember, ma'am. If he said I said
17 that, then I said that.
18 Q. You told him that it wasn't paid back; and in fact,
19 that wasn't true, right?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. You lied because you were afraid and you wanted to
22 protect yourself, right?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. And that's why you felt better after you got that --
25 after you talked to a lawyer and got that letter, right?

64
1 A. I have never felt better, nor do I feel better now.
2 Q. All right. Now, sir, you were afraid that your
3 wife was going to find out about this when you met with
4 Mr. Harriman, weren't you?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. You were afraid that something could happen to your
7 house, right? You didn't want to lose your house, sir?
8 A. I definitely didn't want to lose my house.
9 Q. You were afraid that if your wife did find out, she
10 might leave you, right?
11 A. Find out about what?
12 Q. Find out about the fact that you were involved in
13 drug dealing.
14 A. She knew at one point that I was, and then I lied to
15 her and told her I stopped. But, yes, she threatened to
16 leave me if -- she threatened to leave me if I didn't
17 try to set things straight.
18 Q. Well, sir, you realize, of course, that you could
19 have been charged in this case, right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And you understand that hiding that box of money
22 could have made you involved in this case, right?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And that, of course, buying and selling marijuana
25 could have resulted in you being charged.

65
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Helping package marijuana, that certainly could have
3 resulted in you being charged too, right, sir?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. Sir, you don't want to go to jail, do you?
6 A. No, ma'am.
7 Q. You have a lot to lose if that happens.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. You have a family, you have children?
10 A. Three children.
11 Q. And you don't want to be away from them, of course.
12 A. Not for a day.
13 Q. And of course you don't want to lose your wife.
15 Q. Or your family home.
17 Q. You understand that this prosecutor has the power to
18 bring charges against you, right, sir?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. They also have the power to decide not to. You
21 understand that, don't you?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Now, sir, you understand why the prosecutors and
24 agents wanted to talk to you, right? Yes or no?
25 A. Somehow someone must have mentioned my name, so they

66
1 came knocking on my door.
2 Q. Well, they wanted to talk to you about prosecuting
3 Sean Bucci; is that correct?
4 A. They initially wanted to talk to me, yes, about the
5 money and what went on.
6 Q. And you understand that he is being prosecuted for a
7 conspiracy to distribute more than 1,000 kilograms of
8 marijuana?
9 THE COURT: Are you asking him whether he
10 understands that now?
11 BY MS. BYRNE:
12 Q. Do you understand that now?
13 A. I never knew that before, no, ma'am.
14 Q. You never knew that Mr. Bucci was being prosecuted
15 for a conspiracy to distribute over a thousand kilograms
16 of marijuana?
17 A. Not the weight limit. I knew he was being
18 prosecuted for dealing drugs. I didn't know the
19 specifics.
20 Q. Well, when you met with your lawyer, did your lawyer
21 tell you -- did you talk about what could happen to you
22 if you got convicted?
23 A. Not that I remember.
24 Q. You don't remember talking to your lawyer about the
25 fact that if you were convicted of a conspiracy to

67
1 distribute over a thousand kilograms, that you could go
2 to prison for ten years mandatory? Did your lawyer tell
3 you that?
4 A. Nope.
5 Q. Did your lawyer tell you that if you were prosecuted
6 for a conspiracy to distribute over a hundred kilograms
7 of marijuana, you could go to prison for five years
8 mandatory? Did you understand that?
9 A. He never told me that, no.
10 Q. So, but you did understand -- well, certainly you
11 understood that you could go to prison?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And you did understand in your conversations with
14 Agent Harriman and the prosecutors that they are seeking
15 evidence to prove that Mr. Bucci was involved in drug
16 dealing, right? You understood that?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. A lot of drug dealing, right? You understood that?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And they thought that you knew that he was dealing
21 in large quantities of marijuana, right?
22 THE COURT: He can't say what they thought.
23 BY MS. BYRNE:
24 Q. Did you understand, sir, that the government, the
25 prosecutors thought that you knew things about Mr.

68
1 Bucci's drug dealing?
2 MR. LEVITT: Object to what he thought about
3 what the prosecutors thought.
5 BY MS. BYRNE:
6 Q. You understand, sir, that when you tell agents
7 something they decide whether or not they believe you,
8 right?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And in fact, in this case there were several times
11 when agents said they didn't believe you, right?
12 A. (No verbal response.)
13 Q. Right? They challenged your story, right?
14 A. Well, the one at the very beginning, yes.
15 Q. Well, actually, when you -- when you sat down
16 with -- well, "the very beginning" meaning Agent
17 Harriman --
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. -- because basically everything you told him wasn't
20 true, right?
21 A. Correct. Correct.
22 Q. Okay. So, but when you sat down with Mr. Levitt and
23 Agent Harriman later after you got that letter, you told
24 them -- you told them what happened, right? You told
25 them what you knew.

69
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And when you first spoke to them, you told them that
3 you had helped Sean Bucci break up marijuana one time,
4 right? That's what you told them, right, when you first
5 sat down?
6 A. I don't remember what I told them when I first sat
7 down.
8 Q. All right. Well, you met with -- you met with Mr.
9 Levitt and Agent Harriman prior to that -- prior to
10 going to the grand jury, right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And then you met -- and then you testified at the
13 grand jury, right?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Okay. And then you met with Mr. Levitt and Agent
16 Willoughby who's here in the courtroom, right?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. Sitting in the back, right?
19 And when you -- and that was actually about a month
20 ago, right, the first time you sat down with Mr.
21 Willoughby and Mr. Levitt, January 9th, right?
22 A. It might have been then.
23 Q. And when you sat down with them you stated that you
24 had purchased marijuana from Sean Bucci on occasion and
25 that the most you ever purchased at one time was one

70
1 pound for about a thousand dollars, right? That's what
2 you told them first, right?
3 A. Yeah. I minimized it, yes.
4 Q. And then you said that you assisted Mr. Bucci in
5 packaging a large quantity of marijuana at his house on
6 one occasion, right? That's what you told them as well,
7 right?
8 A. I might have said that, yes.
9 Q. Right. And when you did say that, Agent Willoughby
10 said, "We don't believe you. You're minimizing," right?
11 A. I don't remember if he said that.
12 Q. You just said, all of a sudden, "I'm minimizing.
13 Actually, it was a whole lot more times that I helped
14 break up marijuana." Is that how it went?
15 A. No. I don't know if it was actually to Agent
16 Willoughby or Peter Levitt.
17 Q. All right. Well, one of them said, "We don't
18 believe you."
19 A. No. They said, "Are you sure? Can you think?"
20 Q. Right. Right. So you kind of got the impression
21 they didn't believe you, is that fair to say, sir, when
22 you said one time?
23 A. I guess.
24 Q. So that's when you told them that actually it was a
25 whole lot more marijuana and a whole lot more times you

71
1 helped break up the marijuana, right?
2 A. I don't know about a whole lot more times. I
3 believed it was in the range between three and five. I
4 honestly don't remember exactly how many times.
5 Q. Okay. Now, before you went into the grand jury the
6 prosecutor made it very clear to you that you needed to
7 tell the truth to the grand jury, right?
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. You took an oath?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. You swore to tell the truth to the grand jury?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. Under the pains and penalties of perjury, right?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. And by the way, you haven't been prosecuted for
16 perjury, have you?
17 A. No.
18 Q. There's no charges against you?
19 A. I hope not.
20 Q. You don't expect to be prosecuted for perjury, do
21 you, sir?
22 A. I'm hoping not to be.
23 Q. All right. Well, when you went to the grand jury
24 you actually didn't tell the truth, did you, sir? You
25 lied to the grand jury, didn't you?

72
1 A. I did?
2 Q. Well, you were asked at the grand jury, "Did you
3 ever use marijuana?" and you said no, right?
4 A. I misunderstood him.
5 Q. You misunderstood when he asked if you ever used
6 marijuana?
7 A. I thought he said "do you use marijuana" as in do
8 you recreationally use it now. I misunderstood him.
9 Q. So you misunderstood?
10 A. Yes, ma'am.
11 Q. And by the way, you just said that you smoked
12 marijuana about a couple of weeks ago, right?
13 A. One time, yes.
14 Q. And before that you said it could have been a year
15 or two, right?
16 A. Yeah. I don't remember.
17 Q. And before that you were smoking marijuana
18 regularly, right?
19 A. Yeah.
20 Q. So back when you testified in August of 2005, you
21 were smoking marijuana regularly, right?
22 A. No. No. I worked for the post office and they had
23 drug-screening, and I -- I basically stopped right
24 around when Sean got arrested.
25 Q. How long did you work for the post office, sir?

73
1 A. About a year.
2 Q. Now, you also lied about the money that you used to
3 get the bank check for Sean's attorney when you talked
4 to the grand jury, right? You lied about the source of
5 the money, didn't you?
6 A. Not to my knowledge.
7 Q. Well, you were asked questions about money you had
8 in a personal safe.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And you told the prosecutor that you used cash from
11 the safe, $10,000, to get a bank check, right?
12 A. It might have been 10- or $9,000, yes.
13 Q. And by the way -- and you were asked, "Did that
14 money come -- did any of that money come from selling
15 marijuana that you had in your personal safe?" You were
16 asked that at the grand jury, right?
17 A. I believe so. I don't remember.
18 Q. And you said, "No, it came from my personal savings.
19 It didn't come from the proceeds of marijuana," right?
20 That's what you told the grand jury.
21 A. If that's what I said, yes.
22 Q. And later in an interview with the government, later
23 you admitted that the money in your personal savings was
24 a mixture of money from your marijuana dealing and your
25 own savings, right?

74
1 A. It could have been a mixture, yes.
2 Q. Well, that's what you told the government, right?
3 A. Yes. It was hard to determine exactly what money --
4 at one point I saved $10,000 on my own.
5 Q. Now, back in 2005, Mr. Carbone, you had a personal
6 stash of cash, right?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And that was cash -- at least some of it was from
9 your drug dealing, right?
10 A. Back when?
11 Q. In 2005, sir.
12 A. 2005? I don't even think I had that much money by
13 2005.
14 Q. All right. Well, back in 2003. 2003 when -- in
15 2003 when you used the money from your personal savings
16 to get a bank check, right?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. You had $10,000 -- 9- or $10,000 in personal
19 savings, right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And it was your own stash?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. I stand corrected. I said 2005; I meant 2003.
24 And that was your own personal stash that you kept
25 even from your wife, as you told Agent Harriman, right?

75
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And some of that cash was from drug dealing, we just
3 established, right? Correct? That's what you told the
4 government, some of the cash was from drug dealing,
5 correct, sir?
6 A. It could have been mixed; yes.
7 Q. And you kept it, even as you said, even from your
8 wife, right?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. You kept it, you told Agent Harriman, in case your
11 wife ever threw you out, right?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. So your wife didn't know you had that money, right?
14 A. I believe she knew I had some money in that safe,
15 not the exact amount.
16 Q. And back in 2003 she didn't know you were involved
17 in dealing drugs, did she, sir?
18 A. I don't think she knew.
19 Q. All right. She didn't know that you were buying two
20 pounds of marijuana a month, right?
21 A. She didn't suspect I was doing anything.
22 Q. Right. And she didn't know -- she didn't know that
23 you were spending money to buy marijuana, right?
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. Or that you were making money from selling

76
1 marijuana?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. Where did you hide your drugs from your family, sir?
4 A. Usually in that storage space in Beverly.
5 Q. And that's where you kept your money, too, from
6 drugs, right?
7 A. No, I kept my money in the safe at my house.
8 Q. So you just kept your drugs in the storage space so
9 your wife wouldn't know about that, right?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. Now, in December of 2000, sir, you went to Amsterdam
12 with Mr. Bucci and some of your other friends, right?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. For a bachelor party, right?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Your bachelor party, right?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. You were engaged to be married to Liane, your
19 present wife, right?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. And in fact, you did get married to her a couple of
22 months later, right?
23 A. March.
24 Q. But in December 2000 when you went for this bachelor
25 party, you didn't bring Liane with you, did you?

77
1 A. No.
2 Q. In fact, nobody brought any girlfriend along on this
3 trip, right, to Amsterdam?
4 A. Correct. Correct.
5 Q. And when you were in Amsterdam, sir, you used drugs
6 while you were there, right?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. Did your wife know that? Your future wife?
9 A. She probably assumed it. I don't know.
10 Q. Did you tell her that you were using drugs when you
11 were in Amsterdam, sir?
12 A. I told her we were smoking marijuana.
13 Q. All right. Well, did you tell her that you were
14 having sex with prostitutes, too?
15 MR. LEVITT: Objection, your Honor.
17 BY MR. LEVITT:
18 Q. Did you have sex with prostitutes when you were in
19 Amsterdam?
22 MS. BYRNE: Your Honor, may we be heard?
23 THE COURT: No.
24 BY MS. BYRNE:
25 Q. Sir, you've told Mr. Levitt and Agent Willoughby

78
1 that you were unfaithful to your wife on numerous
2 occasions; is that right?
5 BY MS. BYRNE:
6 Q. Is that right?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. And you have been unfaithful to your wife on
9 numerous occasions, sir, right? Correct?
10 A. A few occasions; yes.
11 Q. And she doesn't know about that, does she, sir?
12 A. No.
13 Q. In 2002 you went to Aruba with Mr. Bucci and your
14 friends, right?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. For another bachelor's party, right?
17 A. Yeah.
18 Q. And this was for Mr. Jefgood, his party, right?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. You didn't bring any -- you didn't bring your wife
21 on this trip, did you, sir?
22 A. No.
23 Q. And no one brought --
24 THE COURT: Nobody else did either, I assume,
25 right?

79
1 THE WITNESS: No, sir.
2 BY MS. BYRNE:
3 Q. And by the way, sir, when you were in Aruba, you
4 used drugs there as well, right?
5 A. Yes, ma'am.
6 Q. And you were unfaithful to your wife when you were
7 there as well, weren't you, sir?
10 BY MS. BYRNE:
11 Q. Now, on the day of Mr. Bucci's arrest, Ms. Genduso
12 showed up at the coffee shop where you worked, correct?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And she told you that she had a box of money that
15 was from Sean Bucci's house, right?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And you understood that that was drug money, right?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. You told her to bring it to your house that night,
20 correct?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. In other words, you couldn't deal with it at the
23 coffee shop; is that fair to say?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. So she did bring it to you that night, right?

80
1 A. I believe so, yes.
2 Q. And you took the money, the box of money, and you
3 drove it to the storage garage that you rented, right?
4 A. The next morning, yes.
5 Q. And by the way, does your wife know about the
6 storage garage that you rent?
7 A. I think she knows I used to rent one, yes.
8 Q. Had she ever been there?
9 A. No.
10 Q. So you hid the box of money at the storage garage,
11 right?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. The same place where you hid your drugs, right?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And you testified today that one or two months later
16 she showed up with safes, right?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And before you said that it was three weeks later
19 that she showed up with safes, right?
20 A. I'm not exactly sure what time frame.
21 Q. All right. So it could have been three weeks or it
22 could have been two months; you don't know?
23 A. Yes. I don't know.
24 Q. You took the safes to the storage garage also,
25 right?

81
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. And she told you a few different stories about where
3 the safes came from; is that right?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. By the way, the owner of this storage space had no
6 idea what you were hiding in there, did they?
7 A. Nobody did but me and Leigha and Sean.
8 Q. And the owner didn't know that you were hiding your
9 drugs in there over the years either, right?
10 A. Correct.
11 THE COURT: He doesn't know what they knew; he
12 can only say that he didn't tell them.
13 MS. BYRNE: Right.
14 BY MS. BYRNE:
15 Q. You never told the owner what you were hiding in
16 there?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Now, in July or August of 2003 you wrote a bank
19 check to an attorney for Sean Bucci, right?
21 Q. From your joint checking account; is that right,
22 sir?
23 A. I remember writing one from the business account
24 from Northern Grind, and I believe the second one came
25 from the joint checking.

82
1 Q. And the joint checking account is the account that
2 you hold with your wife, right?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. What did you tell your wife about that money?
5 A. I told her Sean needed a favor and what it was and
6 it would only be once.
7 Q. And did you tell her how you were going to be
8 reimbursed for that money?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. All right. So you told her that you were going to
11 be reimbursed with cash from drug money?
12 A. I might not have put it in those words, but yes.
13 Q. You didn't use the word "drug money," right?
14 A. I don't remember if I did or not.
15 Q. Sir, there were people -- from the period of 1998
16 through 2003, there were other people living at 23
17 Marshall Street besides Sean Bucci; is that right?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. Chris Bleicher lived there, right?
20 A. Yup.
21 Q. Jay Carnes lived there?
22 A. Yeah.
23 Q. Eric Remins lived there?
24 A. Yeah.
25 Q. And a guy named Sully also lived there for

83
1 approximately a year, right?
2 A. Yeah.
3 Q. And all of those people rented rooms there; is that
4 right?
5 A. What I thought, yes.
6 Q. And the rent was, as you understood it, less than a
7 thousand dollars a month each, right?
8 A. Yeah. I don't have an idea but I would approximate
9 it at less than a thousand.
10 Q. Sir, what's Marginal, LLC?
11 A. Something to do with my family business.
12 Q. What does it have to do with your family business?
13 A. My family business manufactures stainless steel
14 restaurant equipment.
15 Q. So Marginal, LLC, has nothing to do with owning a
16 rental bus, sir?
17 A. Rental bus?
18 Q. Yeah.
20 Q. All right. Well, sir, you applied for a mortgage at
21 one point when you bought your present home, didn't you,
22 sir?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. All right. And by the way, you never told the
25 government that you were employed -- self-employed at

84
1 Marginal, LLC, did you?
2 A. What do you mean?
3 Q. Well, did you ever -- you told the government that
4 you worked as -- in the post office, right?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And that you worked with Jay Carnes in a roofing
7 business, right?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And that you worked for Northern Grind Coffee,
10 right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Those are the jobs you told the government that you
13 had?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Because those are the jobs that you did have?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Right. You never told the government that you
18 worked someplace called Marginal Street, LLC, did you?
19 A. I told them while I was running the coffee shop that
20 I was receiving money from a buyout of my family
21 business.
22 Q. And that the business -- that your position involved
23 being the owner of a rental bus. Did you tell them
24 that, sir?
25 A. A rental bus?

85
1 Q. Right.
2 A. I don't recall.
3 Q. Well, when you applied for a mortgage for 18 Barbara
4 Lane, sir, you were asked about your employment, right?
6 Q. And --
8 BY MS. BYRNE:
9 Q. Well, Marginal, LLC, what does that have to do with,
10 your family business?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. All right. And that's a sheet metal business?
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. All right. And it's not a rental business, is it?
16 Q. And when you -- as I said, when you applied for this
17 mortgage at 18 Barbara -- for 18 Barbara Road, you told
18 them you were a mail-handler, right?
19 A. Or clerk, yeah.
20 Q. And that before that you worked, from 1998 to 2004,
21 as the owner of a rental business or a rental bus,
22 Marginal Street, LLC, right? Did you tell them that?
23 A. I don't remember.
24 Q. You didn't tell them that you were working for Jay
25 Carnes Roofing, right?

86
1 A. Probably not. I don't remember.
2 Q. Or Northern Grind?
3 A. I don't know if I mentioned Northern Grind. I might
4 have. I don't remember.
5 Q. Well --
6 A. My wife does most of my finances.
7 Q. Well, you were the one who -- you signed the
8 application for the loan, right?
9 A. Yeah.
10 Q. And calling your attention to the bottom of that
11 page, right? When you filled out that loan you told
12 them you worked for Marginal Street, LLC, between -- for
13 the full 1998 to 2004, didn't you, sir?
14 A. I think we listed that as a source of income.
15 Q. Well, you put that it's your employment and you were
16 the rental owner, right?
17 THE COURT: Are you finished with it?
18 THE WITNESS: Yes.
19 THE COURT: May I see it?
22 THE WITNESS: At first I sold the shares to the
23 business, and I got paid out over five years. But I
24 kept my interest in the land and the building, and I was
25 collecting money as a landlord once a month.

87
1 BY MS. BYRNE:
2 Q. You were not working there, were you, sir?
3 A. Not physically. I think I stopped in, like, '97 or
4 '98.
5 Q. So you were not employed there, in other words; is
6 that right?
7 A. No.
8 Q. So it was never your job to work at Marginal Street,
9 LLC; is that fair to say, sir?
10 A. I wouldn't say "never." I worked there.
11 Q. Not between 1998 and 2004, though, right, sir?
12 A. No.
13 THE COURT: It's my understanding that you
14 weren't working for them but you were receiving income
15 from them.
17 THE COURT: Who prepared that form?
18 THE WITNESS: I honestly don't know. I
19 believe --
20 THE COURT: Did you type it up?
21 THE WITNESS: No.
22 BY MS. BYRNE:
23 Q. Did you sign it, sir?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And you know they were relying on this information

88
1 in order to loan you money, sir?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. You testified today that between 1995 and 1998 you
4 saw approximately 20 pounds of marijuana in Sean Bucci's
5 apartment in Salem, right?
6 A. One time I did, yeah.
7 Q. Right. And you testified today that you saw it in
8 a, quote, blue tote, right?
9 A. That's what I remember it to be.
10 Q. Okay. Did you talk about that with Mr. Levitt?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. All right. You talked about the fact that you told
13 inconsistent stories about what you saw? Did he point
14 that out to you?
15 A. I don't understand.
16 Q. Did he point out to you that you had said two
17 different things about what you saw in Salem?
18 A. Not that I remember.
19 Q. Well, when you talked to -- on January 9th when you
20 talked about what you saw in Salem, you told the agent
21 you saw approximately 20 pounds of marijuana in a,
22 quote, blue plastic bin, right?
23 A. I believe so.
24 Q. And then in February, about a month later, you
25 talked about that again, right? They asked you about

89
1 that again, right?
2 A. I guess so.
3 Q. And this time you said that you saw approximately 20
4 pounds of marijuana in a, quote, tote bag in the
5 kitchen, right?
6 A. Tote bag?
7 Q. Tote bag.
8 A. I don't remember saying that, no.
9 Q. You don't remember saying that on February 10th,
10 2007, to Mr. Levitt and Agent Willoughby?
11 A. No, I don't remember using the term "bag"; no.
12 Q. And that interview was on -- well, that was
13 sometime, approximately, February 8th, 9th or 10th,
14 right, that you had that interview with them; is that
15 right?
16 A. I don't remember any dates.
17 Q. In February.
18 A. Yes, basically.
19 Q. Now, you graduated from college in 1995, right?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. And you graduated from high school in 1991?
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. And when you originally met with Agent Willoughby
24 and the prosecutor, you told them that you did not deal
25 marijuana in college at all, right?

90
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. However, you now say that you dealt marijuana
3 between 1993 and 1995, right?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And that was while you were in college, right, sir?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. You've been to the -- you've been to 10 Alderbrook
8 Road, right, in Topsfield?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And you know where that house is, right? You can
11 picture it in your head?
12 A. Vaguely, but yes.
13 Q. All right. And you know that that house -- it's
14 located actually on the middle of the street; is that
15 right? It's not on a corner lot, is it, sir?
16 A. I honestly couldn't remember.
17 Q. So the last time that you met with Mr. Levitt and
18 Agent Willoughby, you told them that actually you smoked
19 marijuana about a week earlier, right?
20 A. A couple of weeks earlier before I met them, yes.
21 Q. And you told them that before that you hadn't --
22 well, today you said you hadn't smoked marijuana for a
23 year or two before that. You're not sure, right?
24 A. I'm not a hundred percent sure, but it's been a
25 while.

91
1 Q. Well, do you know whether it's been as much as two
2 years or is it a year?
3 A. I'm not a hundred percent sure.
4 Q. Well, could it have been a month?
5 A. No, I believe it was a while.
6 Q. More than two months?
7 A. I believe it to be, yeah. I'm not a hundred percent
8 sure.
9 Q. Well, when you smoked marijuana two weeks ago, sir,
10 who did you smoke it with?
11 A. My brother-in-law.
12 Q. Where did you get it?
13 A. He had it.
14 Q. Did you buy it?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Do you still have some marijuana stored in your
17 garage space?
18 A. No.
19 MS. BYRNE: Nothing further, your Honor.
20 BY MR. LEVITT:
21 Q. Mr. Carbone --
22 MR. SINSHEIMER: Actually, I'm glad to be
23 insignificant --
24 MR. LEVITT: I apologize.
25 MR. SINSHEIMER: -- but I do have a very few

92
1 questions, if you don't mind.
2 CROSS-EXAMINATION
3 BY MR. SINSHEIMER:
4 Q. Good morning, Mr. Carbone.
5 A. Good morning, sir.
6 Q. My name is Rob Sinsheimer. I represent Catherine
7 Bucci. I'm just going to ask you a few questions, if I
8 might.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. You did say that you met my client, Ms. Bucci, a
11 couple of times?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And I think you said that that was on a Fourth of
14 July party?
16 Q. And that was at 23 Marshall Street?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. Which is where Sean lived for a period of time?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. You've known Sean, however, since high school; is
21 that fair to say?
22 A. Yup.
23 Q. Would it be fair to call you guys high school
24 buddies? Is that a fair characterization?
25 A. Yes.

93
1 Q. You got involved in selling marijuana at first
2 because you used it a little bit, right?
3 A. I don't know exactly why I did, but I definitely did
4 use it, yes.
5 Q. You used it as a kid, right?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And as I think you told us, you still do a little
8 bit? Or at least as recently as within the last month?
9 A. Yes. I wouldn't say "frequently" but --
10 Q. Sure.
11 A. -- here or there.
12 Q. And apart from the fact that it's illegal, which we
13 all know which is why we're here, you don't see anything
14 wrong with it, do you?
15 A. I don't see anything wrong with it, no.
16 Q. You had a joint with your brother-in-law, what, the
17 last couple of weeks, right?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Now, what happened to get your involvement was you
20 liked Sean Bucci so you got in a little over your head,
21 right, in terms of the money part.
22 I'll withdraw it. Let me slow it down. I'm trying
23 to be brief here.
24 Sean was your friend, right?
25 A. Absolutely, yes.

94
1 Q. And except for the fact that you got no choice but
2 being here, he's still your friend, right?
3 A. I don't know what he thinks of me now, but I
4 don't -- I don't know.
5 Q. You don't wish him any bad will but you've got no --
6 A. Absolutely not. I used to love the kid like a
7 brother.
8 Q. But you got no choice, right? You've got to sit
9 there because you've been told to be here by the
10 government, right?
11 A. I've been advised by my lawyer that I would be most
12 likely to get into trouble if I didn't come here and
13 tell the truth.
14 Q. So you see it as no choice, right? Let me withdraw
15 it.
16 You see it as the right choice for yourself and your
17 family?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. And you don't know what he thinks of you. I think
20 that's what you just said, right?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. But you still care for him, right?
23 A. Absolutely, sir.
24 Q. Now, you -- but you wouldn't lie for him, right?
25 Not today, right?

95
1 A. To my knowledge I haven't been lying about anything
2 today.
3 Q. All right. Now, you knew that he came from a
4 family, had a brother and -- excuse me. Had two sisters
5 when he was growing up, right?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. You knew his sister Noelle, a lot younger, right?
8 A. Yeah.
9 Q. And you knew that Sean had business ideas, right?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. He had big dreams, right?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And it wasn't just pot, was it?
14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. He wanted to be a dee-jay, right?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. He started this thing called Dessy Drive, I think
18 way back in high school. Just after high school, right?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Do you remember that?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. What was that all about?
23 A. He tried to start a service of -- a designated
24 driver service.
25 Q. Explain it. How was it supposed to work?

96
1 A. From what I recall, someone just would give him a
2 call and his pager would go off or whatever and he would
3 pick the person up.
4 Q. People who --
5 A. They drank too much, yeah.
6 Q. It was an attempt to make money in a legitimate
7 business, right?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Now, the dee-jay thing he was serious about, right?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. It wasn't just a cover for being a pot dealer, was
12 it?
13 A. They were serious about it. Yes.
14 Q. When you say "they," it wasn't just him either,
15 right?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. It was him and Bleicher, right?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And who's the other kid involved?
20 A. Jay Carnes, Eric Remins.
21 Q. And did you tell us on direct exam that they were
22 out two, three nights a week? Is that what you said?
23 A. It varied.
24 Q. All right. Give us your best estimate.
25 A. Usually Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays.

97
1 Q. Pretty regular, right?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. For over what period of time?
4 A. They were dee-jays for a long time.
5 Q. Back before '95?
6 A. I can't remember exactly when they started but it
7 could have been back before '95. Yes.
8 Q. Now, Sean was one of these guys that liked to make a
9 big splash from time to time, right?
10 A. What do you mean by that?
11 Q. I don't know myself. It's a lousy question. Let me
12 try again. Let me give you something specific.
13 Do you remember an incident in some bar where it was
14 in the newspaper and the dee-jay was buying drinks for
15 everybody, something like that?
16 A. Yeah. At the Bay Bridge, I believe it was.
17 MR. SINSHEIMER: If I may have a second, your
18 Honor.
19 THE COURT: Yes.
21 MR. SINSHEIMER: May I see Exhibit 62, please?
23 Q. Do you remember that? Can you read that, first of
24 all? I apologize, sir.
25 A. Yeah. "Dee-Jay Picks Up The Tab At Salem Watering

98
1 Hole."
2 Q. And do you remember seeing that when it actually
3 came out?
4 A. Yeah.
5 Q. I know I asked you a lousy question before but I
6 guess that's what I mean by "big splash." He was out
7 there marketing himself in a big-time way, right?
8 A. At that time, yes.
9 Q. As a dee-jay, not as a pot dealer.
10 A. Exactly.
11 Q. And he did other things like that along the way,
12 right? I don't mean in the newspaper. I mean, he
13 wanted to be known as a dee-jay. He got the word out
14 there, right?
15 A. He was trying to be successful at that, yes.
16 Q. Do you remember Rocktober Fest?
17 A. Yup.
18 Q. Now, you told us on direct -- I think Mr. Levitt
19 asked you some questions about Rocktober Fest. Do you
20 remember those?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. So I'm just going to ask you in a little more
23 detail, if you don't mind. I think -- you don't
24 remember exactly the year, do you?
25 A. I thought it was '97, but I'm not a hundred percent

99
1 sure.
2 Q. One moment, please.
4 MR. SINSHEIMER: Judge, may I have this object
5 marked for identification only, please, at this
6 juncture?
7 THE COURT: Yes.
9 THE CLERK: E. I believe it's E.
10 THE COURT: What number are we on?
11 MR. SINSHEIMER: E for identification. E as in
12 Edward.
13 (Defendant 2's Exhibit E was marked for
14 identification.)
16 Q. Sir, I'm going to show you what has been marked as E
17 for identification. Do you recognize it?
18 A. Yeah.
19 Q. Without getting in too much detail, what is it?
20 A. Excuse me?
21 Q. What is it?
22 A. That's a T-shirt.
23 Q. Is it -- from what?
24 A. From a promotional concert that 911 Productions
25 tried -- attempted to throw, and they did.

100
1 Q. The Rocktober Fest?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. And you actually recognize this as being one that
4 was available at the time?
5 A. Yup.
6 MR. SINSHEIMER: Judge, I'd offer it into
7 evidence at this juncture.
8 MR. LEVITT: No objection.
9 THE COURT: Received.
10 (Defendant 2's Exhibit E was received into
11 evidence.)
13 Q. Now, this session -- well, what year does it say on
14 it?
15 A. It says 1998.
16 Q. And does that refresh your memory as to whether
17 Rocktober Fest was in 1998?
18 A. I guess so, yes.
19 Q. By the way, did he give you one of these?
20 A. I don't know if I ever -- if I did, I lost it. I
21 don't remember.
22 Q. Well, this has a bunch of bands on the back. One,
23 two, three -- quite a few, right?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And did they all show up?

101
1 A. To my knowledge, yes.
2 Q. And where was -- did you go, first of all?
3 A. Yeah. I actually worked the event.
4 Q. Because he was your buddy, right?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And so -- when you say you worked the event, what do
7 you mean?
8 A. I was in charge of tickets and people coming in. I
9 was selling tickets.
10 Q. By the way, you and I have never spoken, have we?
11 A. I don't believe I've ever seen you before.
12 Q. Never seen me in your life, right?
13 A. I don't think so.
14 Q. And we never sent any investigator out to talk to
15 you or anything like that?
16 A. No.
17 Q. You never got -- so you worked the tickets at
18 Rocktober Fest?
19 A. Yeah.
20 Q. How many people came? I know it's been almost ten
21 years, but give me a rough estimate.
22 A. I honestly can't speculate.
23 Q. Thirty, forty grand? Is that too much?
24 A. Thirty, forty thousand people?
25 Q. Yeah.

102
1 A. Oh, absolutely. Maybe 500, 600 people.
2 Q. Oh, it was tiny? I know it was a bust, but how many
3 people came altogether, do you think?
4 A. Through the whole day the course of people coming
5 and going? I don't know, maybe a thousand, 1500? I
6 honestly would have no idea.
7 Q. And it was outdoors?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Where was it?
10 A. I believe it was in Salem. Winter Island, I
11 believe.
12 Q. Was it very clearly promoted as 911 Productions?
13 A. I think someone else -- it was 911. I thought
14 someone else was in on it, too.
15 Q. Were there radio stations involved?
16 A. Yeah. WAAF was there.
17 Q. WAAF?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. Were there corporate sponsors?
20 A. I don't know.
21 Q. Budweiser, or one of those --
22 A. Maybe. I don't know.
23 Q. You're not sure?
24 A. I'm not sure.
25 Q. How much time -- do you know what time of year it

103
1 was?
2 A. I believe it was in October.
3 Q. Of '98?
4 A. I believe so.
5 Q. It took a little time to put that together, right?
6 A. I believe it would have, yes.
7 Q. And do you remember how far prior to October '98
8 Sean began the process of putting that together?
9 A. I don't remember, no.
10 Q. If I suggested six months to a year, is that
11 consistent with your memory?
12 MR. LEVITT: I object. He said he doesn't know.
14 MR. SINSHEIMER: Who objected, the judge?
16 Q. All right. I mean, do you have any idea at all?
17 A. I believe it took a while to plan but I don't know.
18 Q. When did you find out you were going to be the
19 ticket guy?
20 A. I believe that day.
21 Q. When did you find out you were going to be involved
22 in any functional way?
23 A. I told him I'd help him if he needed help.
24 Q. Do you know if it was advertised on the radio at
25 all?

104
1 A. I believe it was.
2 Q. Do you remember that?
3 A. I believe it was.
4 Q. Now, let's go back to these Fourth of July parties,
5 if I may.
6 MR. SINSHEIMER: Can I get Exhibit -- I think
7 it's 43.
9 Q. That's 23 Marshall Street, right?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. That's the location where the Fourth of July party
12 took place that you were telling us about where you met
13 my client, right?
14 A. Yeah. That wasn't the first time I met her, but I'd
15 seen her there.
16 Q. When was the first time you met her?
17 A. I can't remember.
18 Q. Just like growing up as kids, you went to the house
19 once in a while?
20 A. It had to be sometime when I got my license in high
21 school, I would believe.
22 Q. Because you'd be driving over?
23 A. Yeah.
24 Q. And, "Hey, can Sean come over?" Or -- or you'd pick
25 him up or leave him there?

105
1 A. I'd pick him up or leave him there, yeah.
2 Q. That was at 4 Loris Road in Danvers, the house
3 where he grew up?
4 A. Yeah.
5 Q. A regular house in Danvers, as far as you could see?
6 A. Yeah.
7 Q. Now, as far as -- let's go back to this location, 23
8 Marshall Street. Do you know what is to the right or
9 the left of this picture? I'll withdraw it. I'll
10 withdraw it. Let me try a different question.
11 Describe the neighborhood.
12 A. Pretty quiet neighborhood.
13 Q. Pretty quiet?
14 A. Yeah.
15 Q. How far apart were the houses?
16 A. They weren't super far, but there was a lot of brush
17 and trees between them.
18 Q. It wasn't so quiet on Fourth of July, though, was
19 it?
20 A. No.
21 Q. A pretty big party. That's what I'm trying to get
22 at, right?
23 A. Yeah.
24 Q. Were the neighbors present?
25 A. I don't know.

106
1 Q. You don't know one way or the other?
2 A. No.
3 Q. How many people altogether?
4 A. A hundred plus. I don't know.
5 Q. And some of them you knew and some of them you
6 didn't know, right?
7 A. Yeah.
8 Q. And some of them you knew as people who you'd smoke
9 pot with from time to time, right?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Some of them you knew but as people that you may
12 have sold a little pot to from time to time, right?
13 A. I can't remember if any of my clients were there,
14 but maybe.
15 Q. All right. Some of them you knew as people who may
16 have purchased from Sean, right? Bleicher, Carnes, your
17 buddies?
18 A. Yeah, my buddies. Yeah.
19 Q. But this was a pretty small percentage of all the
20 people that were there, true?
21 A. I guess.
22 Q. I mean, this wasn't a pot party; this looked like a
23 suburban Fourth of July party, correct?
24 A. Yeah. There was a band and a cop detail and
25 port-a-potties.

107
1 Q. You beat me to it. There were cops outside, right?
2 A. Yeah.
3 Q. That Sean paid for, right?
4 A. Yeah.
5 Q. That was another way that he put on a big splash,
6 right? He had a party for over a hundred people every
7 Fourth of July party, right?
8 A. Yeah. I think he had, like, two or three of them.
9 I'm not sure.
10 Q. In 2000, 2001?
11 A. Yeah.
12 Q. Do you know who called the cop detail?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Was it more than one cop?
15 A. I can't remember.
16 Q. No one was ever arrested at these things, right?
18 Q. I mean, they were happy, celebratory parties, but
19 they weren't out of control in any way, shape or form,
20 right?
21 A. Not to my knowledge. I wouldn't stay there until
22 the end of them all but...
23 Q. Fair enough. All right. Let me withdraw it and try
24 it again.
25 During the times you were there, they were happy

108
1 parties, right?
2 A. Yeah.
3 Q. People were enjoying the holiday, right?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. But no way out of control, right?
7 Q. Not from what you saw. I'm asking what you saw.
8 A. Yeah.
9 Q. Now -- and his parents were there, right?
10 A. I believe so, yeah, a few times.
11 Q. And never once in your entire life have you ever
12 seen my client in the presence of marijuana, have you?
13 A. No.
14 Q. And never once have you -- now, just a couple more
15 questions. You got contacted by Agent Harriman in
16 August '05, right, or a little before then?
17 A. It might have been a little before that, yeah.
18 Q. Sean had already been busted, right?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Almost a year and a half before, right?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. He'd been in jail for a period of time, right?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And all this time you'd been holding onto his money
25 and you thought the only people who knew were you and

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1 him and Leigha, right?
2 A. To my knowledge.
3 Q. That's what you thought?
4 A. Yeah.
5 Q. And then the IRS is at your door, right?
6 A. Yeah.
7 Q. And this isn't good for you, is it?
8 A. No.
9 Q. So you get a lawyer, right?
10 A. Yeah.
11 Q. He tells you, "Come clean," in so many words, as
12 quick as you can, right?
13 A. He told me to tell the truth, yes.
14 Q. And he gets you involved and in contact with Mr.
15 Levitt, right?
16 A. I guess, yeah.
17 Q. And that's pretty scary at the beginning, right?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. I mean, you paid your lawyer some money, you trusted
20 him, but it wasn't like something you wanted to do,
21 right?
22 A. Yeah.
23 Q. And you were talking about being interviewed a
24 little bit, and I think you said some of the
25 questions -- they asked you things like, "Are you sure?

110
1 Can you think of more?" Do you remember those kinds of
2 questions?
3 A. Specifically, no.
4 Q. At any time, I mean.
5 A. That might have happened, yeah.
6 Q. Well, you met with Mr. Levitt how many times?
7 A. Four to five.
8 Q. And among the things you talked about was how to
9 handle yourself on cross-examination, right?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And the first thing he tells you: Whatever you do,
12 tell the truth. No question about it, right?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And didn't he also say things like, "We know you're
15 going to get asked, 'Do you expect not to be
16 prosecuted?'" right? You knew that question was coming,
17 right?
18 A. Excuse me?
19 Q. Well, Mister -- excuse me. Ms. Byrne asked you if
20 you expected not to be prosecuted. Do you remember
21 that?
22 A. I don't expect anything.
23 Q. No. But he told you to say you don't expect
24 anything; just say be hopeful, right?
25 A. No. He asked me if we ever had any deals, "And to

111
1 your knowledge we do not, correct?" And I said yes.
2 Q. Right. Right. And Mr. Levitt said, "Remember, now,
3 we don't have any deals. If they ask you if you expect
4 to be prosecuted, say you hope not," correct?
5 MR. LEVITT: I object, your Honor.
8 Q. Right?
9 THE COURT: Do you understand the question?
10 THE WITNESS: Not really. Not specifically.
12 Q. All right. Let me ask it a different way. I know I
13 can bungle them. Let me work it down slow.
14 You told the jurors that you hope not to be
15 prosecuted.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. But let's change the word. In your heart of hearts
18 you expect not to be prosecuted, right?
19 A. Honestly, I'm still scared. I have no idea what's
20 going on with me.
21 Q. You're scared, but you'd also be surprised, right?
22 A. No.
23 Q. You've got a good working relationship with them,
24 right?
25 A. I don't know that.

112
1 Q. Well, you've met with them five times, right?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. You've been asked over and over again, "Are you
4 sure? Can you think of anything else," right?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And you knew at one point that my client, Mrs.
7 Bucci, was a target of this prosecution, right?
8 A. I was told that later, yes.
9 Q. When?
10 A. I don't remember.
11 Q. Well, more than a month ago, right?
12 A. I didn't learn until I started meeting with them.
13 Q. And they told you, right?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. They told you they had a case against Sean Bucci,
16 but they also had a case against his mother, right?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And they wanted to know everything you knew about
19 the mother, right?
20 A. They didn't ask me too many questions about her.
21 Q. Well, but they made it clear they wanted to know,
22 right?
23 A. Know about what?
24 Q. Anything. They wanted to know what you knew about
25 Mrs. Bucci and pot, right?

113
1 A. They asked me if I'd ever seen her in the same room
2 as it, and I said, "No, I don't think she's ever been
3 around it."
4 Q. And you told us everything you know today, right?
5 A. Basically, yes.
7 THE COURT: Is this going to be short?
8 MR. LEVITT: Yes, very.
9 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
10 BY MR. LEVITT:
11 Q. Mr. Carbone, when you brought the box of money and
12 the safes to Sean Bucci --
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. -- did he give you anything?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. What?
17 A. He gave me $5,000.
18 MS. BYRNE: Objection, your Honor. Beyond the
19 scope.
21 MR. LEVITT: I don't believe that's outside the
22 scope, your Honor.
23 THE COURT: Well, I believe that it is.
24 MR. LEVITT: It's the one question I had, your
25 Honor. I'd ask the Court's indulgence.

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1 THE COURT: Okay.
2 MS. BYRNE: Objection, your Honor. Objection.
3 It's beyond the scope.
4 THE COURT: Are you saying that that's the only
5 question you have?
6 MR. LEVITT: Yes.
7 THE COURT: All right. I'm sustaining the
8 objection.
9 MS. BYRNE: Thank you, your Honor.
10 MR. LEVITT: You're not allowing me to ask the
11 question about what he got from Sean Bucci?
12 THE COURT: I just ruled.
14 THE COURT: Okay, ladies and gentlemen. This
15 will be the break at this time. Thank you. You may be
16 excused.
18 (Jury out at 11:16 a.m.)
19 THE COURT: You're excused, sir.
20 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
21 (The witness is excused.)
22 MR. SINNIS: Can you ask him to leave?
23 THE COURT: You may leave.
24 MR. LEVITT: Your Honor, with respect to the
25 issue that Mr. Sinsheimer brought up earlier about the

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1 Bruton issue.
2 THE COURT: Yes.
3 MR. LEVITT: Mr. McAdams has advised me that his
4 memory is that the Court had not previously ruled on it.
5 So I wanted to advise the Court -- the Court said it had
6 previously ruled on it -- I said -- I agreed with that.
7 Mr. McAdams has now told me that his recollection is
8 apparently consistent with Mr. Sinsheimer's, is that the
9 Court hadn't. So I wanted to just let the Court know.
10 THE COURT: Thank you. I'm sorry about the
11 confusion. It's been a case with a lot of points, and I
12 believe I did dispose of it. I don't pretend it was in
13 writing -- it was orally -- but I'm prepared to rule on
14 the record at the moment, if necessary.
15 And I'd forgotten whether -- I believe it was
16 Mr. Sinsheimer had moved to suppress, right?
17 MR. SINSHEIMER: I moved in limine, your Honor.
18 THE COURT: Yeah.
19 MR. SINSHEIMER: And you've given me plenty of
20 time to be heard so I won't belabor it, but I really
21 don't see how they could get that in even under the
22 coconspirator exception rule, because it is the only
23 evidence they have of the conspiracy. And my
24 understanding of the law is that they have to show first
25 that there is a conspiracy and then that activity was in

116
1 in furtherance of it. And I don't see where they're
2 anywhere near that.
3 THE COURT: My recollection is that they did
4 show that it was. They did argue precisely that point,
5 am I right?
6 MR. LEVITT: That's correct, your Honor. She's
7 deeply involved in the conspiracy. She was selling the
8 marijuana; she was breaking it down; she was money
9 laundering.
10 THE COURT: I recognize there could be a
11 difference of opinion as to how this falls, and I'm
12 agreeing with the government.
13 MR. SINSHEIMER: Let me finish now, please,
14 because I think your Honor may have forgotten the
15 argument because we're at the exact same place we were
16 the last time. It's a different conspiracy. Leigha
17 Genduso is not charged with the money-laundering
18 conspiracy that my client is charged with. And there's
19 not a scintilla of evidence that this pillow talk, or
20 this casual conversation that they're going to put in --
21 they don't give me a date; they don't give me anything.
22 It's just one time, "Did you ask Sean" --
23 THE COURT: I'm ruling in favor of the
24 government. I would say this, however: that I think
25 that there is enough merit to your position that the

117
1 government should think twice about whether they want to
2 use this statement or not.
3 MR. SINSHEIMER: Thank you, your Honor.
4 MR. LEVITT: Your Honor, I'd ask permission to
5 re-call Mr. Carbone to ask him that one question.
6 MR. SINSHEIMER: Objection.
7 THE COURT: I'm sorry. Whose question?
8 MR. LEVITT: I'd ask the Court's indulgence to
9 re-call Mr. Carbone and ask him that one question about
10 what Sean Bucci gave him when he gave him the money box
11 and those two safes.
12 MS. BYRNE: Which you just ruled on.
13 THE COURT: The last question?
14 MR. LEVITT: You ruled that I couldn't do it on
15 redirect. I'd ask that I could re-call him and ask him
16 that question.
18 THE COURT: I don't understand what's happened
19 since then.
20 MR. LEVITT: Well, no, your Honor. It's just
21 that the ruling was that it was outside the scope of
22 redirect.
23 THE COURT: Yes.
24 MR. LEVITT: I'm asking to re-call him on direct
25 examination and ask the question.

118
1 THE COURT: No. The answer is no.
3 (There is a recess in the proceedings at
4 11:20 a.m.)
5 THE CLERK: All rise for the jury.
6 (Jury in at 11:42 a.m.)
7 THE COURT: Thank you, everyone. Please be
8 seated.
9 MR. LEVITT: The government calls Leigha
10 Genduso.
11 LEIGHA GENDUSO, sworn
12 THE COURT: Ms. Genduso, would you keep your
13 voice up and speak into the mic.
14 THE WITNESS: Sure.
15 DIRECT EXAMINATION
16 BY MR. LEVITT:
17 Q. Ms. Genduso, I show you what has been marked as
18 Government Exhibit 82. Do you recognize that?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Is that your signature on the last page? Actually,
21 your signature is not on it.
22 A. No. I was, like, "No, it's not."
23 Q. What is this?
24 A. That is a court order which is forcing me to come
25 and testify along with immunization upon my testimony.

119
1 Q. It takes away your Fifth Amendment right?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. That means you can't be prosecuted for what you say
4 here today?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. Unless you lie?
7 A. Correct.
8 MR. LEVITT: I offer Exhibit 82.
10 (Government's Exhibit No. 82 was received into
11 evidence.)
12 BY MR. LEVITT:
13 Q. And when you testified before the grand jury in this
14 case, you had a similar order?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. How old are you?
17 A. Twenty-five.
18 Q. Where did you grow up?
19 A. Shrewsbury, Massachusetts.
20 Q. How far did you go in school?
21 A. College -- I'm sorry. High-school diploma.
22 Q. When did you graduate?
23 A. In 1999.
24 Q. At some point did you leave home?
25 A. Yes.

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1 Q. When?
2 A. When I was 17 years old.
3 Q. Why?
4 A. Just bad family situations.
5 Q. How have you supported yourself since?
6 A. I've supported myself on my own without my parents.
7 Q. Doing what?
8 A. Bartending.
9 Q. Have you ever had a problem with drugs in your life?
10 A. Yes, I have.
11 Q. What drugs?
12 A. Marijuana.
13 Q. When did you start smoking marijuana?
14 A. Between the ages of 16 and 17 years old.
15 Q. At some point did you smoke marijuana heavily?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. When?
18 A. During the time I lived at 23 Marshall Street.
19 Q. Who were you living with at the time?
20 A. Sean Bucci.
21 Q. Who is he?
22 A. Right there.
23 Q. Would you identify him?
25 MR. SINNIS: The record will reflect that she

121
1 identified Mr. Bucci.
2 THE WITNESS: To the right.
4 BY MR. LEVITT:
5 Q. What was your relationship with him?
6 A. He was my boyfriend at the time.
7 Q. How often were you smoking marijuana during that
8 time?
9 A. Basically every day.
10 Q. Where did you get the marijuana?
11 A. From Sean.
12 Q. How old were you at that time?
13 A. Like 19, 20. I'd say 20.
14 Q. Did you also use prescription drugs at some point?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. When?
17 A. During the time I resided at 23 Marshall Street.
18 Q. What kind?
19 A. I used Xanax, Wellbutrin, possibly Vicodin.
20 Q. Why?
21 A. Just for my own consumption, personal.
22 Q. For what?
23 A. The Xanax I would take to sleep; Wellbutrin for,
24 like, depression.
25 Q. Where did you get prescription drugs?

122
1 A. The Wellbutrin was from online, and the Xanax was --
2 Sean had.
3 Q. You weren't prescribed those drugs, were you?
4 A. No.
5 Q. When did you meet Sean Bucci?
6 A. In the year 2000.
7 Q. Do you recall when in 2000?
8 A. Approximately, no.
9 Q. How did you meet him?
10 A. He dee-jayed at a bar called Scuttlebutts in Salem,
11 and I was cocktail waitressing there at the time.
12 Q. When did you start dating him?
13 A. Around 2000.
14 Q. And was Sean Bucci living at 23 Marshall at the
15 time?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. When did you move in with Sean Bucci at 23 Marshall?
18 A. Between 2000 and 2001.
19 Q. When you first started dating Sean Bucci, did he
20 tell you what he did for a living?
21 A. No, not really.
22 Q. Did he say anything about what he did?
23 A. Nope.
24 Q. At some point did you learn what he did for a
25 living?

123
1 A. Yes, I did.
2 Q. When?
3 A. Well, one day when I was over there he brought from
4 upstairs a bag of marijuana down to the kitchen. And I
5 kind of wondered where it came from, and eventually he
6 told me.
7 Q. What did he tell you?
8 A. That he sells marijuana for a living.
9 Q. Do you recall how soon after you were dating that
10 happened?
11 A. Probably -- I'd say three months.
12 Q. At some point did you learn who Sean Bucci's
13 marijuana supplier was?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. When?
16 A. Not right away. At first I'd usually be in the
17 bedroom when the person came.
18 Q. Why would you be in the bedroom?
19 A. Because the person didn't want his identity to be
20 known.
21 Q. Did somebody tell you to go in to the bedroom?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Who?
24 A. Sean.
25 Q. At some point did that change?

124
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Why?
3 A. Because I was around for so long, it just finally --
4 things got more mellowed out and relaxed and...
5 Q. And who did you learn was Sean Bucci's marijuana
6 supplier?
7 A. His supplier was Anthony Belmonte.
8 Q. Did you see Anthony Belmonte at the house?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. When would you see him at the house?
11 A. About once a month.
12 Q. Once a month what was he doing at the house?
13 A. Once a month he was bringing over shipments of
14 marijuana to the house.
15 Q. Did you ever talk with Sean Bucci about how long
16 Anthony Belmonte had been his supplier?
17 A. Yeah. I knew it was over a few years.
18 Q. At some point did you get more involved in -- did
19 you get involved in Sean Bucci's marijuana business?
20 A. Yes, I did.
21 Q. When?
22 A. Once I found out, after a while, I became more
23 involved.
24 Q. So once he let you, sort of, be there?
25 A. Correct.

125
1 Q. When you didn't have to go in to the bedroom?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And what year is that?
4 A. An approximate, I don't recall, but it was
5 definitely between 2000 and 2001.
6 Q. And starting at that point were you there for
7 deliveries?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Could you describe how those deliveries would come
10 about?
11 A. Well, Anthony would usually call prior, before
12 delivery day, whether it be the night before. Usually
13 he would start calling the week before to let him know,
14 give him a heads-up, and would always call the day
15 before.
16 Q. And then what would happen on delivery day?
17 A. He would call that morning to state what time he
18 would be coming. And upon arrival the garage door --
19 Sean would usually open the garage door. Either Sean or
20 myself or other roommates would move all the vehicles so
21 the garage area would be open and not restricted for a
22 truck to come in, and Anthony would usually have a
23 rental truck, pickup truck, that he'd bring into the
24 garage, and then the garage door would shut.
25 Q. Showing you Government Exhibit 14, what is that?

126
1 A. That is the house at 23 Marshall Street.
2 Q. So after Anthony Belmonte brought the marijuana into
3 the garage, what would happen?
4 A. The garage door would shut. And depending on if it
5 was a -- like a cover on it, whatever the case would be,
6 we would take out -- they would take out the bales and
7 bring them usually upstairs to the middle room with the
8 shades lowered right there.
9 Q. The room that I'm indicating?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. Did he always use a pickup truck?
12 A. Not necessarily. For the most part, yeah, a pickup
13 truck or a van.
14 Q. You say it was a rental. How do you know that?
15 A. He would never, as far as I know, use his own
16 vehicle. He'd usually rent a vehicle.
17 Q. How do you know that?
18 A. Because he was -- I'm pretty sure he stated it
19 before.
20 Q. So did you help him move the marijuana?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Why not?
23 A. Because they're big bales. Usually the guys would
24 do it, meaning the roommates.
25 Q. Which roommates?

127
1 A. Jay Carnes, Chris Bleicher, Eric Remins; Darren
2 Martin was living there once in a while.
3 Q. Did they all help?
4 A. Depending who was home at the time. Sometimes it
5 would just be Anthony and Sean.
6 Q. Do you know how much at a time Anthony Belmonte was
7 bringing?
8 A. It would be, actually, different, depending per
9 month. Sometimes it was months that he wouldn't even
10 come, but usually estimated, it would be around 200
11 pounds.
12 Q. What did you do in connection with the marijuana
13 that was delivered?
14 A. A lot of times I helped him break up the bales to be
15 able to put them into pounds.
16 Q. Did he break up all of the bales?
17 A. No.
18 Q. How many bales would he break up?
19 A. It depended. Usually whatever he had left from the
20 people who would come take the bales in bulk. It always
21 varied.
22 Q. About how many bales was he getting for delivery?
23 A. Like I said before, it depended. It depended on the
24 amounts per bale. For example, one would be 17-1/2
25 pounds; another one could be 10 pounds. So sometimes he

128
1 would get 20 bales, sometimes 10, depending.
2 Q. And so, for example, if he had 20 bales, how many
3 might he break up into pound bags?
4 A. It could be two, three.
5 Q. And the rest would be sold in bulk?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Let me show you what's been marked as Exhibit --
8 Government's Exhibit 23J. Do those look familiar to
9 you?
10 A. Yes, they do.
11 Q. What do they appear to be to you?
12 A. Those are the bales that they would come in. The
13 numbers on them mean the weight.
14 Q. Can you describe -- so if there's 20 bales, he
15 breaks up a couple of them into pound bags, right?
16 A. Yeah, usually.
17 Q. Can you describe -- and you helped him do that?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Can you describe how you guys would do that together
20 and the way you would do it?
21 A. Sure. He'd have a black bin. We would usually
22 take, like, a long straightedge screwdriver to break
23 open the bales because they were very compact and hard
24 to break up. And we would then break up the buds and
25 put them into one-pound bags.

129
1 Q. Let me show you Government Exhibit 38. Do you
2 recognize this?
3 A. Yes, I do.
4 Q. What is it?
5 A. That is one of the buckets we'd use to break up the
6 bales.
7 Q. I show you Government Exhibit 29C. Do you recognize
8 these bags?
9 A. Yes, I do.
10 Q. What are they?
11 A. They are the bags that we'd put pounds into.
12 Q. Do you know where Sean got these?
13 A. I think he got them online.
14 Q. And do you know how many he would typically order at
15 a time?
16 A. I don't know how many he'd order at a time. I do
17 know that they cost a lot less online rather than buying
18 them at a grocery store, for example.
19 Q. I show you Government Exhibit 27A. Do you recognize
20 this?
21 A. Yes, I do.
22 Q. What is it?
23 A. It's a U-Haul box that occasionally the bales would
24 come in.
25 Q. And how would Sean Bucci weigh the marijuana?

130
1 A. Well, like I said before with the bales, it would
2 already have the approximate weight on there. But when
3 he wanted to weigh, say, to check, to make sure the
4 weight was accurate or to do pounds, he would have two
5 different types of scales.
7 that?
8 A. Yes, I do.
9 Q. What is it?
10 A. It's an electronic scale that he used.
11 Q. And 33?
12 A. Yup.
13 Q. What's that?
14 A. That is another scale that is more efficient for
15 ounces, for example.
16 Q. Government Exhibit 30. Do you recognize this?
17 A. Yes, I do.
18 Q. What is it?
19 A. It's a money counter.
20 THE COURT: I'm sorry?
21 THE WITNESS: Money counter.
22 THE COURT: Oh.
23 BY MR. LEVITT:
24 Q. Where was the money counter?
25 A. It was also in the office.

131
1 Q. Did you see him use it?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Did you use it?
4 A. Yup.
5 Q. And what would you use it for?
6 A. To count a large number of bills at a time. It's a
7 lot easier.
8 Q. How would Sean Bucci package the bills?
9 A. Usually he would take elastics and wrap them around
10 in denominations of $5,000.
11 Q. Did you see -- when Anthony Belmonte brought his
12 loads of marijuana, did you ever see Sean Bucci pay him?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. How much at a time did you see him pay him?
15 A. I don't remember approximates. Sometimes it would
16 be depending on how much money he had to front him, what
17 they call it, and then a lot of times he would have to
18 pay him back whatever amount he still owed afterwards.
19 Q. When a load was coming, would Sean Bucci have the
20 money there at the house?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And did he keep it anywhere else?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Where?
25 A. He also kept it at his mother's house.

132
2 A. Because the night before we would usually drive to
3 his mom's house at 4 Loris Road in Danvers. He would go
4 inside and I'd stay in the car, and he'd go in to get
5 money.
6 Q. And what would he come out with?
7 A. Sometimes a bag, sometimes a shoebox, depending.
8 Q. Do you see Catherine Bucci in court here today?
9 A. Yes, I do.
10 Q. Can you point her out?
11 A. Very far right.
12 MR. SINSHEIMER: I'd stipulate, your Honor, that
13 she's here.
15 BY MR. LEVITT:
16 Q. Did you come to know who Sean Bucci's customers
17 were?
18 A. Yes, I did.
19 Q. How?
20 A. Well, living there I knew half of them were his
21 friends and then the other half were just his regular
22 customers.
23 Q. Would you see them come and pick up marijuana?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Did you ever provide any of the customers with the

133
1 marijuana?
2 A. Yeah. When Sean wasn't home?
3 Q. Do you know who Sean Bucci's largest customers were?
4 A. Yes, I do.
5 Q. Who?
6 A. Jay Zeramby, J.Z., also known as; J.Z.'s
7 brother-in-law, Larry; Darren Martin; Tim Hurley at one
8 time; there was another kid named Matty at one time;
9 Scott Mizzy at one point; a kid named Jay, I believe,
10 who used to come over, I didn't know his last name, with
11 his girlfriend; Chris Bleicher. Those were usually his
12 biggest customers.
13 Q. Did he have some smaller customers, too?
14 A. Yup.
15 Q. Who were they?
16 A. Chris Bleicher, sometimes he would take a little
17 more, but he usually would take pounds; Eric Remens
18 would take pounds once in a while; Jay Carnes would take
19 pounds once in a while; Eric Carbone; Jan Jefgood, also
20 known as Butchy.
21 Q. Those were the smaller customers?
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. When you say that J.Z. was one of the larger
24 customers, do you know how much he was taking?
25 A. He would basically be the first one over to the

134
1 house normally to get the most bulk. It could be
2 anywhere, depending on what he wanted to choose, five
3 bales, maybe sometimes more, sometimes less.
4 Q. And Larry?
5 A. Larry, the same. Sometimes less, depending.
6 Q. Darren Martin?
7 A. Darren Martin, sometimes he would take a few bales;
8 other times he would take, like, ten pounds already put
9 together.
10 Q. Scott Mizzy?
11 A. Mizzy, when he was around, would take bulk as well,
12 and also Matty.
13 Q. When you say "bulk," you're distinguishing bales
14 from pounds?
15 A. Correct. And, like, several bales.
16 Q. And what about Hurley?
17 A. Timmy would take a couple of bales, sometimes more,
18 sometimes less.
19 Q. Matt?
20 A. Matt would take bales, too, at the time.
21 Unfortunately, I don't remember his last name, but...
22 Q. Do you know someone named Don O'Connor?
23 A. Yes, I do.
24 Q. Who's that?
25 A. That's Sean's uncle.

135
1 Q. Do you know where he lives?
2 A. He also lives in Peabody.
3 Q. Do you know if he's a customer?
4 A. Yes, he was, too.
5 Q. Was he a big customer or a little customer?
6 A. He would take bales at times.
7 Q. Do you know Eric Carbone?
8 A. Yes, I do.
9 Q. Is he a customer?
10 A. Yes, he was.
11 Q. Big or little?
12 A. Little. He would take pounds as far as I remember.
13 Q. Why would you provide marijuana to Bucci's customers
14 sometimes?
15 A. If someone -- or one of the roommates, for example,
16 if Sean wasn't home and they wanted to suddenly go out
17 and, say, one of their friends called and wanted a pound
18 or two, then I would go into the office into the -- one
19 of the bags and give them some and record it on paper.
20 THE COURT: Can I see counsel at the sidebar,
21 please.
23 the jury:)
24 THE COURT: I asked you to come here because I
25 am concerned about the issue that Mr. Sinsheimer has

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1 raised, even though I think my ruling is correct; and
2 therefore, before you ask the question, I would like you
3 to advise me. I'm going to excuse the jury and we can
4 discuss it further.
5 MR. SINSHEIMER: Judge, while we're here on
6 that, I also -- I didn't object when it came in, but
7 there was a statement made that I've never seen
8 disclosed before, and I was going to come back, and as
9 soon as I could. And the reason I didn't was because I
10 didn't want to make a big show in front of the jury.
11 But he asked her this story about going to my
12 client's house and getting money. That's never been
13 disclosed ever. It's a brand-new statement. And to
14 just throw that at us I think is unfair, and I'm moving
15 for a mistrial.
16 MR. LEVITT: It's been disclosed, I believe, and
17 it's not grounds for a mistrial.
18 MR. SINSHEIMER: Well, if it's been disclosed,
19 then I stand in error.
20 MR. LEVITT: Either way, it's not grounds for a
21 mistrial.
22 MR. SINSHEIMER: I think it's grounds.
23 (In open court:)
24 THE COURT: Do you want me to do that now?
25 MR. LEVITT: I thought you wanted to excuse the

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1 jury.
2 THE COURT: At the time that you get to the
3 point.
4 MR. LEVITT: Got it.
5 BY MR. LEVITT:
6 Q. Did you ever take money from Sean Bucci's customers?
7 A. Yes, I did.
8 Q. And why would that happen?
9 A. Again, either Sean wouldn't be present at the house
10 or, for example, he'd be sleeping.
11 Q. I show you what's been marked as Government Exhibit
12 40J. Do you recognize that?
13 A. Yes, I do.
14 Q. What is it?
15 A. It's my handwriting. Sean wasn't home at the time,
16 and Darren Martin came over with money that he owed him,
17 so I counted the money and placed it into that envelope
18 and marked it.
20 these people?
21 A. Yes, I do.
22 Q. Starting on the left, who's that?
23 A. Starting to the left is Chris Bleicher, sitting down
24 is Sean Bucci, next is Eric Carbone, and the far right
25 is Jason Zeramby.

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1 Q. And this person here?
2 A. Oh, didn't see that person. I'm sorry. It's Jan
3 Jefgood, also known as Butchy.
4 THE COURT: Do you know where that picture took
5 place?
6 THE WITNESS: Yes. That is in Costa Linda in
7 Aruba.
9 BY MR. LEVITT:
10 Q. Did Mr. Bucci have any sort of system for tracking
11 his drug sales?
12 A. As far as a system, it was kind of sloppy. He would
13 have all different notebooks and pieces of paper all
14 over the place with numbers and names.
15 Q. And what did he use these various pieces of paper
16 and notebooks for?
17 A. To record how much people took, how much people owed
18 him.
20 that?
21 A. Yes, I do.
22 Q. And what's that?
23 A. That is one of the notebooks that he would use to
24 record how much money everyone owed and when they came
25 by, how much they gave him from their existing number.

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1 Q. So the line for J.Z. would be --
2 A. $144,000. And they'd come, drop off 43, and then
3 what they had owed left.
4 Q. Did you ever see numbers like this?
5 A. Yup.
6 Q. This is 40C. What did that signify to you?
7 A. That signifies to me the approximate amount of
8 marijuana that he received, 351.73. The number below it
9 would be the figure that he owed to Anthony Belmonte,
10 for example, and then minus the number, that usually
11 would mean what he gave to Anthony for payment.
12 Q. Did Mr. Bucci usually pay a significant portion --
13 MS. BYRNE: Objection, your Honor, to leading.
15 BY MR. LEVITT:
16 Q. Did Mr. Bucci typically pay a significant portion of
17 what he owed to Anthony Belmonte on delivery?
18 A. On delivery, yes.
19 Q. Did Mr. Bucci sometimes write things on Post-it
20 notes?
21 MS. BYRNE: Objection to leading, your Honor.
23 THE WITNESS: Yes, he did.
24 BY MR. LEVITT:
25 Q. I show you Government Exhibit 40G. Do you recognize

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1 that?
2 A. Yup.
3 Q. What is it?
4 A. It looks like it could be either/or --
5 MS. BYRNE: Your Honor, "it could be"? I would
6 object to her answer on this.
8 Ma'am, if you can't remember which it is, I'm
9 afraid you can't answer.
10 THE WITNESS: Okay. My apologies.
11 BY MR. LEVITT:
12 Q. You mentioned there were some roommates?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Who were they?
15 A. Christopher Bleicher, Jason Carnes, Eric Remens, at
16 one point Warren Sullivan, Darren Martin would live
17 there on and off.
18 Q. Were they all -- did they all live there till the
19 end when Mr. Bucci was arrested?
20 A. No.
21 Q. When did they leave?
22 A. I'd say between 2002 and 2003.
23 Q. Do you know if they paid rent?
24 A. Yes, they did.
25 Q. How much?

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1 A. 500 a month, as I recall.
2 Q. Did they pay on time?
3 A. No. Most of the time, no.
4 Q. The folks that lived there -- Carnes, Fletcher,
5 Remens, Jefgood -- the other folks, Martin, Carbone, did
6 they all smoke marijuana?
7 A. Yes. Well, no, Warren Sullivan didn't.
8 Q. Other than Warren Sullivan?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. What about Sean Bucci?
11 A. No, never.
12 Q. Did you ever sell marijuana?
13 A. Yes, I did.
14 Q. When?
15 A. Between 2002 and 2003.
16 Q. How did you start?
17 A. I met someone in Worcester, we spoke about it, and I
18 told Sean about it.
19 Q. Who was this person?
20 THE COURT: You said you sold it. Are you
21 talking about you sold it for your own account? You got
22 the money for it?
23 THE WITNESS: Yes, I did.
24 BY MR. LEVITT:
25 Q. Who was the person in Worcester?

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1 A. This kid named Tim. I don't recall his last name.
2 I don't even think I knew his last name.
3 Q. Who supplied you with the marijuana?
4 A. Sean.
5 Q. For how long did you sell marijuana to Tim?
6 A. Oh, it could have been ten times, even more.
7 Q. How much were you selling at a time?
8 A. Sometimes up to ten pounds at a time.
9 Q. And how much was Sean Bucci charging you for the
10 marijuana?
11 A. He charged me the lowest price possible to be
12 charged. I don't recall the exact significant [sic]
13 amount.
14 Q. Do you know how much you charged Tim?
15 A. I charged him the normal consistent amount/rate that
16 everyone else did, probably between -- I don't remember
17 the exact numbers, so I don't want to say.
18 Q. How much were you making?
19 A. I was making at least 200 a pound.
20 Q. Where would you pick up the marijuana that you were
21 going to sell to Tim?
22 A. Well, I'd get it out of the house at 23 Marshall
23 Street.
24 Q. How would you get it -- you sold it to him in
25 Worcester?

143
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. How would you get it there?
3 A. I would put it in boxes and then wrap them up as
4 presents.
5 Q. Why?
6 A. Because of the smell, and because it's 60 miles to
7 drive with that in my car.
8 Q. Did you ever sell Tim any other kind of marijuana?
9 A. Yes, I did.
10 Q. What kind?
11 A. Hydroponic, also known as High Bud.
12 Q. What is that?
13 A. It is a higher consistency --
14 MS. BYRNE: Objection, your Honor, as to
15 relevancy, this portion.
17 Go ahead. You can answer it.
18 THE WITNESS: Thank you, your Honor.
19 It's a more potent type of marijuana. It values
20 more on the street as well.
21 BY MR. LEVITT:
22 Q. Where did you get that marijuana?
23 A. From Sean Bucci.
25 A. Between 2002 and 2003.

144
1 Q. Where was Sean Bucci growing that marijuana?
2 MS. BYRNE: Objection. Leading.
4 THE WITNESS: He was growing that marijuana at
5 his uncle's house, Donald O'Connor.
6 BY MR. LEVITT:
7 Q. Did you ever see the plants?
8 A. Yes, I did, once.
9 Q. Can you describe them?
10 A. Don O'Connor wasn't home. Sean wanted to see them.
11 We stopped by, went downstairs into the basement and
12 viewed them.
13 Q. Can you describe what you saw?
14 A. There was about 10 to 20 plants downstairs, grow
15 lights -- grow lights everywhere, foil hanging on the
16 walls.
17 Q. How many times did you sell the hydro to Tim?
18 A. Probably three to four times, maybe more.
19 Q. How much at a time?
20 A. Usually a pound.
21 Q. How much were you making per pound?
22 A. A lot more: 6-, $700.
23 Q. Do you know where the equipment came from to buy the
24 hydro?
25 A. Some stuff from Home Depot, other stuff he'd get

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1 online. Even stuff for the soil, things of that nature.
2 Q. Did you see things delivered to the house?
3 A. Yes, I did.
5 that?
6 A. Yes, I do.
7 Q. What is it?
8 A. It's one of the magazines, catalogs that were sent
9 to the house for growing material.
10 Q. During this time period when you were living at 23
11 Marshall, did you ever have any conversation with Sean
12 Bucci about how long he had been selling marijuana?
13 A. Yes, I did.
14 Q. What did he say?
15 A. It was a substantial amount of time. Over four
16 years.
17 MR. LEVITT: Excuse me, your Honor.
19 BY MR. LEVITT:
21 50. Do you recognize that?
22 A. Yes, I do.
23 Q. What is it?
24 A. That was a photo of me and Sean taken at Anthony
25 Belmonte's wedding.

146
2 A. I know it was in the fall. I think it was 2002.
3 Q. Did Sean Bucci and Anthony Belmonte socialize much?
4 A. Outside of him coming over to the house, no, not
5 much.
6 Q. At some point did Sean Bucci buy a car?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Do you recall what kind?
9 A. Chevrolet Avalanche.
10 Q. Do you know how he paid for it?
11 A. Yes, I do.
12 Q. How?
13 A. All in cash.
15 A. Because I was present at the time.
16 Q. Can you describe what happened?
17 A. It was at a Chevrolet dealership in Lowell,
18 Massachusetts. We went there, he found the Avalanche
19 that he liked, we went upstairs into an office/room and
20 counted the money with the car dealer.
21 Q. Did he say how much it was?
22 A. Between 20,000 and $30,000.
23 Q. And how did Mr. Bucci carry the money in?
24 A. I recall it being in just like a simplistic leather
25 bag.

147
1 Q. Did he have any other cars?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. What kind?
4 A. Prior to the Chevy Avalanche he had a Jeep Cherokee;
5 he also had a -- it was like a 1939 antique roadster.
6 Q. Anything else?
7 A. He also had a large box truck which carried the dirt
8 bikes in.
9 Q. Did he ever have a boat?
10 A. Yes, he did.
11 Q. Did he use that?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Did you see money at the house at 23 Marshall
14 Street?
15 A. Yes, I did.
16 Q. Where?
17 A. Normally when transactions were made, he would
18 always take the money and put it into a safe.
19 Q. Were you ever concerned about security?
20 A. Always, yes.
21 Q. Why?
22 A. Because it -- I mean, it was dangerous with large
23 sums of money and large amounts of marijuana in the
24 house.
25 Q. Did you ever talk to Mr. Bucci about that?

148
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Can you describe these conversations?
3 A. He said not to worry, no one will break in. We had
4 video surveillance monitors in the bedroom as well as in
5 the kitchen set up.
6 Q. What did those show?
7 A. It showed the outside exterior driveway and a
8 partial amount of the road.
9 Q. Did you guys ever have a problem?
10 A. Yes, we got broken into once.
11 Q. Describe what happened.
12 A. It was a Thursday night. I know that because they
13 were dee-jaying at Bay Bridge on Thursday nights in
14 Salem. Me, Chris Bleicher, Eric Remens, Sean and Jay
15 Carnes all went down to Bay Bridge that night. Eric
16 Remens' girlfriend at the time stayed at 23 Marshall
17 Street because she wasn't feeling well. She called us
18 immediately at around -- I don't know. It was after
19 midnight, stating that she --
20 MS. BYRNE: Objection. Hearsay, your Honor.
21 Some woman called her and made statements.
22 THE WITNESS: Eric Remens' girlfriend, your
23 Honor.
24 THE COURT: I think it ordinarily would be, yes.
25 BY MR. LEVITT:

149
2 about what happened?
3 A. Yes.
5 A. Well, what happened was, we got broken into and they
6 stole the safe, and they stole a shotgun as well.
7 Q. Did Sean Bucci say anything about the safe?
8 A. He said luckily there wasn't really anything in it.
9 I think one of his birth certificates was in it and some
10 paperwork, but there was no substantial money in the
11 safe.
12 Q. Did he say anything about the shotgun?
13 A. Yeah. He said it was taken, so he reported it
14 stolen.
15 Q. Whose idea was it to report it stolen?
16 A. It was his.
17 Q. Can you describe what he said about that?
18 MS. BYRNE: Objection, your Honor. Renewing my
19 objection that we discussed before.
20 THE COURT: Who are you asking her about?
21 MR. LEVITT: What Sean Bucci said about filing a
22 police report.
23 THE COURT: That's permissible.
24 MS. BYRNE: Note my objection, your Honor.
25 BY MR. LEVITT:

150
1 Q. What did he say about the report?
2 A. Well, we figured out to -- I had a Lincoln Marquis
3 at the time. We went to the police station. We said
4 that when my car was at the North Shore Mall, we were
5 bringing it to his mom's house because we were having
6 kids over for the holidays, and that someone stole it
7 out of my vehicle.
8 Q. Do you know where William and Catherine Bucci lived
9 at the time?
10 A. Yes, I do.
11 Q. Where?
12 A. 4 Loris Road in Danvers.
13 Q. Did they ever live at 23 Marshall Street?
14 A. Never.
15 Q. Did you see them at 23 Marshall Street?
16 A. Once in a blue moon.
17 Q. For what?
18 A. For example, his dad would come over for Fourth of
19 July parties he would have; his mom would stop over on
20 very rare occasions just to say hi.
21 Q. Did you ever have conversations with Sean Bucci
22 about Catherine Bucci's financial situation?
24 THE COURT: About her financial situation?
25 MR. LEVITT: Yes.

151
2 THE COURT: I'll allow that.
3 THE WITNESS: Yeah, we knew money was always
4 tight with them.
5 MR. SINSHEIMER: I didn't hear you. I'm sorry.
6 THE WITNESS: We knew money was always tight as
7 far as income goes.
8 BY MR. LEVITT:
9 Q. And that was based on your conversation with Sean
10 Bucci?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. Did Mr. Bucci tell you whether he was doing anything
13 about that?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. What?
16 A. He would give them money from time to time.
17 Q. How were you supporting yourself during this time,
18 2001-2003?
19 A. I was also bartending at various places.
20 Q. Did Mr. Bucci help you out as well?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. How?
23 A. I never paid rent. We would go out to eat; grocery
24 shopping. He paid for my cell phone bill; it was very
25 overdue. Things of that extent.

152
1 Q. You went out to eat and you would do things. How
2 would he pay?
3 A. Cash.
4 Q. Did he ever ask to put anything in your name?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. What?
7 A. The telephone.
8 Q. For where?
9 A. 23 Marshall Street.
10 Q. Did you do it?
11 A. Yes.
13 that?
14 A. Yes, I do.
15 Q. What is it?
16 A. It's the phone bill to 23 Marshall Street in my
17 name.
18 Q. Did you ask him why he wanted you to put the phone
19 in his name?
20 MS. BYRNE: Objection. Objection to leading,
21 your Honor.
22 THE COURT: Are you asking why the bill is in
23 that name?
24 MS. BYRNE: Why he --
25 BY MR. LEVITT:

153
2 about why the bill was in your name?
3 A. Yes.
5 A. Well, that basically if any law enforcements were to
6 try to tap into the phone line under my existing name,
7 it would be a lot harder than it would be under his
8 name.
9 Q. Do you know whose name the house is in at 23
10 Marshall Street?
11 A. Yes, I do.
13 A. Because when Sean was in jail, I was paying for all
14 the bills.
15 Q. Whose name's it in?
16 A. Catherine and William Bucci's.
17 Q. Did you ever ask Sean Bucci why that was?
18 A. Yes, I did.
20 MR. SINSHEIMER: Objection. Same objection.
21 THE COURT: This is not the question we were
22 discussing before?
23 MR. LEVITT: No, it's not.
24 MR. SINSHEIMER: No, but it's still a Bruton
25 objection, respectfully.

154
1 THE COURT: I think this will be a good time for
2 us to review the situation.
3 Ladies and gentlemen -- I'm going to see counsel
4 at sidebar. I'm going to see if we're going to break
5 for lunch or not.
7 the jury:)
8 THE COURT: This material obviously is of
9 significant importance, and the only question I have at
10 the moment is whether we should excuse the jury for
11 lunch and then resume.
12 MR. LEVITT: I think that makes sense.
13 (In open court:)
14 THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we
15 have a legal question to discuss, and I don't want to
16 keep you waiting upstairs, so we're going to take the
17 lunch break at this time. And I'll ask you to be
18 available again at quarter of two.
19 Thank you very much.
21 (Jury out at 12:29 p.m.)
22 MR. LEVITT: Ms. Genduso, please step outside.
24 THE COURT: You may all be seated.
25 I indicated at the sidebar I had further

155
1 concerns about the important question of whether to
2 allow the government to question the present witness as
3 to -- as I understand it, the statement made by Sean
4 Bucci that Catherine Bucci knew what he was doing. And
5 we've had considerable discussion about that back and
6 forth.
7 I understand the position of the parties to be:
8 The defendant argues it comes under Bruton and the
9 government argues that it does not because it was an
10 exception because the statement was made in furtherance
11 of a conspiracy.
12 Have I got you right?
13 MR. LEVITT: That's correct, your Honor.
14 THE COURT: What bothers me is whether that
15 should be split -- that hair should be split further in
16 the following way: Certainly the statement by Sean that
17 his mother knew what he was doing would be in
18 furtherance of the money -- I mean, of the marijuana
19 conspiracy. The question is whether it's also in
20 furtherance of the money-laundering conspiracy which is
21 the only charge against Catherine Bucci.
22 Do you want to tell me what --
23 MR. LEVITT: I believe, your Honor -- and I
24 agree with that. We just haven't gotten to that point
25 yet in testimony. We haven't started talking about,

156
1 with her, this witness, her involvement in money
2 laundering. That's going to come. The statement -- and
3 that statement comes afterward.
4 The statement that Mr. Sinsheimer just objected
5 to is a wholly different statement, one that he's never
6 objected to in the past. It's not the statement that
7 you're referring to. It's not the statement that she
8 asked Sean Bucci if his parents knew what he did for a
9 living and he said they did. That comes later after
10 we've gone through her involvement in the
11 money-laundering conspiracy.
12 We started with the drugs, moving towards the
13 money laundering. So we haven't gotten there yet.
14 This statement is simply --
15 THE COURT: When you say "this statement," what
16 statement --
17 MR. LEVITT: Well, the statement is -- when we
18 broke just now, Mr. Sinsheimer objected to -- I asked
19 her if she knew whose name the house was in. She said
20 yes. I asked if she ever had a conversation with Sean
21 Bucci about why the house was in his parents' name.
22 That's when the objection came. I can tell you what the
23 answer I think would be, which is that he said --
24 similar to what he said about putting the phone in
25 Leigha Genduso's name -- he said that, "If I ever get

157
1 caught, they can't take my house." That's his
2 statement.
3 THE COURT: Right.
4 MR. LEVITT: And I don't believe that even, you
5 know, raises a Bruton issue as opposed to the other one,
6 which I could see how the Court would think it at least
7 raised the issue.
8 MR. SINSHEIMER: Let me start at the beginning.
9 I'm going to try to be brief, but this is crucial to my
10 client. First of all, we did not file one motion; we
11 filed three separate ones. And I expect that they may
12 have been somewhat redundant, but it was precisely for
13 the purpose of making sure that crucial statement he
14 knew -- excuse me -- she knew coming out of the mouth of
15 a co-defendant that I can never cross-examine, that that
16 was the subject of a separate motion. Then we filed a
17 broader kind of motion in limine to keep all Bruton
18 issues out.
19 So those motions are already out there. And
20 then for them to say I never objected, well, if I missed
21 one, I still have a right to object in the middle of a
22 trial like anybody else does.
23 THE COURT: Yes, of course you do.
24 MR. SINSHEIMER: Right. The motions in limine
25 would flag the issue in good faith so everybody knew

158
1 this was coming.
2 Now, Judge, you've seen our defense. My client
3 is essentially taking the position that the government
4 cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she agreed
5 to launder marijuana money.
6 THE COURT: I understand.
7 MR. SINSHEIMER: Right. And this -- he intends
8 to ask her question after question after question, not
9 just the one which is -- goes to the core that she knew.
10 It all will come out of the mouth of Sean Bucci who I
11 can never cross-examine. Now, that is quintessential
12 and classic Bruton. And Bruton is grounded in the
13 confrontational clause which is of constitutional
14 dimension. It's not just some rule of evidence.
15 THE COURT: We're aware of Bruton and we're
16 aware of --
17 MR. SINSHEIMER: I apologize. I'm also making
18 an appellate record. I'm being very up-front about
19 that. And I understand the Court is well aware that
20 we've raised this significant issue, and I appreciate
21 your Honor's concern, and also to hear me.
22 Now, if -- so I don't think it should come in.
23 I think the confrontation clause trumps the exception,
24 and I want to make that, you know, as clear as day, that
25 I'm saying that, and my memo argues that. But even if

159
1 it doesn't, even if we're just looking at an
2 old-fashioned rule of evidence, they have to show before
3 they get the question out of her mouth that it was in
4 furtherance of the conspiracy that my client is charged
5 with.
6 THE COURT: That's the point I was making.
7 MR. SINSHEIMER: Right. And they haven't. It
8 isn't even close.
9 And the fact that it may come in on some other
10 basis than its 403 relevance, your Honor, to get that in
11 where they've got a zillion -- and I did argue this in
12 chambers, too. I think I made a polite phrase, and I
13 think Mr. Sinnis acknowledged, you know, "They've got
14 tons of evidence against my client." To suggest that
15 they need her to say that Mrs. Bucci knew that he was a
16 pot dealer to prove that he was a pot dealer on this
17 record is laughable.
18 It's coming in because they want to nail her
19 with confrontation clause material that I can never get
20 at, and it's wrong and I'm objecting. I'm going to
21 object to every single question of that type. And I
22 think that's all I can say.
23 MR. LEVITT: Your Honor, we've briefed this
24 issue. And first of all, Mr. Sinsheimer's notion that
25 the confrontation clause trumps the exception is just

160
1 not the law. We've cited --
2 THE COURT: No, I understand that. But I've
3 narrowed it down to the point that I tried to express
4 before and hope to express now. The question is whether
5 the question that will be asked of the witness --
6 namely, "Did Sean Bucci ever tell you anything about his
7 mother knowing?" The argument that the government has
8 made as to its admissibility depends on whether that
9 statement was made in furtherance of the conspiracy or
10 not.
11 MR. LEVITT: That's correct, your Honor.
12 THE COURT: And there are two conspiracies --
13 there are three. Two, at least, in this case. And the
14 question I'm raising is whether that statement is in
15 furtherance of the conspiracy charged against Mrs.
16 Bucci.
17 MR. LEVITT: And it is, your Honor.
18 THE COURT: How?
19 MR. LEVITT: Well, Ms. Genduso will be
20 testifying -- we haven't gotten there yet -- will be
21 testifying that she laundered money for Sean Bucci on
22 numerous occasions.
23 THE COURT: Yes?
24 MR. LEVITT: You've already heard --
25 THE COURT: We're talking money laundering only

161
1 now?
2 MR. LEVITT: Correct. You already heard about
3 the hundreds of thousands of dollars that she had after
4 his arrest.
5 THE COURT: Yes.
6 MR. LEVITT: She also structured transactions
7 for him. She took money to the bank, and at his request
8 took cash, always under $10,000, and deposited it for
9 him. 6,000 --
10 THE COURT: The witness did?
11 MR. LEVITT: Yes. $6,000, $5,000, $8,000 at his
12 request. He told her -- and she asked him why it's
13 under $10,000, and he told her.
15 MR. LEVITT: So she was as deeply into the
16 money-laundering conspiracy as the drug conspiracy.
18 MR. LEVITT: We just haven't gotten there yet in
19 terms of the testimony.
20 What she'll testify about is that she was doing
21 all this. She knows the house is in their name; the
22 phone's in her name; they've been robbed; there's money
23 in the house all the time; there's drugs in the house
24 all the time; there's people coming and going. She was
25 concerned. And as part of that concern she said to Sean

162
1 Bucci, "Do your parents know what you're doing?" And he
2 said, "Yes, they know, and they don't care." And that
3 reassured her.
4 And cases in the First Circuit that we cited in
5 our memo are precisely that: Cases where the Court
6 determines it's in furtherance of the conspiracy when
7 one coconspirator, Sean Bucci, is reassuring another
8 coconspirator, in this case Leigha Genduso. Those are
9 the facts and the law is very clear.
10 THE COURT: All right. I understand your
11 position, and I think -- I think I will agree with it,
12 but I want to review the cases that you've cited before
13 I make a final ruling on it. I'm going to lunch now.
14 MR. SINSHEIMER: Can I have -- not to argue the
15 law, because I appreciate you're going to review the
16 cases, but argue a fact aspect of this, your Honor?
17 THE COURT: Yes.
18 MR. SINSHEIMER: I'm going to pull the page in a
19 minute, but I don't agree that the government has put on
20 any evidence and has disclosed any evidence -- and this
21 is getting technical now -- but that Mrs. -- excuse
22 me -- that Leigha Genduso was somehow reassured -- and I
23 don't like to use the word "fabrication." But you know,
24 I don't know how many times they interviewed her to get
25 her to say maybe she was reassured.

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1 But what I was disclosed was that she asked him
2 in passing. I'll give you the exact sentence if you
3 give me a minute. "By the way, do your parents know?"
4 Something like that. And I'll find it if you'll just
5 give me a second. For them to now say she needed that
6 information to be reassured when she's already, you
7 know, moving pounds of marijuana out to Worcester,
8 that's an outrage, your Honor. It's a bootstrap way to
9 get in the meat of the case through somebody I can never
10 cross-examine.
11 Let me give you the exact sentence so at least
12 your Honor can have an understanding of exactly where it
13 is.
14 "Mrs. Genduso also advised that during the" --
15 THE COURT: What are you reading from?
16 MR. SINSHEIMER: I'm reading from -- thank you,
17 your Honor -- a January 16th, 2007, report from Mr.
18 Levitt in which he discloses Ms. Genduso -- it's on page
19 19. And it says, "Ms. Genduso also advised that during
20 the 2002-'3 period she once" -- sometime in that, you
21 know, two-year range, that's an exact quote -- "she once
22 asked why 23 Marshall Street was in the name of
23 Catherine Bucci, and Bucci explained, 'If anything
24 happens, they can't take my house.'"
25 Let me go to a knowledge statement, your Honor.

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1 MR. LEVITT: That is a different statement, your
2 Honor.
3 MR. SINSHEIMER: It is a different statement,
4 and I jumped up because I had the...
6 MR. SINSHEIMER: I just had it, your Honor.
7 Please forgive me.
8 THE COURT: Mr. Sinsheimer, I really think I
9 understand your position. It's a question of me
10 reviewing the cases that were cited and see whether I
11 feel any different about it.
12 MR. SINSHEIMER: I'll find the exact statement.
13 It's just slipping through my fingers at this juncture,
14 your Honor.
15 THE COURT: All right. We'll go to lunch.
16 We'll resume at two o'clock.
18 (There is a recess in the proceedings from
19 12:43 p.m. to 2:05 p.m.)
21 THE COURT: Good afternoon. You may be seated.
22 Mr. Sinsheimer is missing? Oh, you're over there.
23 MR. SINSHEIMER: No, I'm right here, your Honor.
24 THE COURT: I'm ready to rule on the
25 government's application to admit the statement from

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1 Leigha Genduso that she once asked Sean Bucci whether
2 his parents knew that he sold marijuana for a living and
3 he said that they knew and did not care.
4 After considerable reflection -- everybody knows
5 we've been talking about it for a long time -- I'm
6 ruling against the government as to this statement. For
7 the exception to the Bruton rule to apply, the statement
8 to be admitted must have been made in furtherance of the
9 money-laundering conspiracy with which Catherine Bucci
10 is charged.
11 The statement the government seeks to admit
12 concerns Leigha Genduso's question to Sean Bucci about
13 whether his parents knew that he sold marijuana for a
14 living. That question is about the marijuana
15 conspiracy, not the money-laundering conspiracy.
16 Catherine Bucci is only charged with conspiring to
17 launder money with Sean Bucci.
18 Based on what's been presented by the government
19 and disclosed to the defense, the government has not
20 shown that the conversation was in fact an effort to
21 reassure Leigha Genduso or otherwise further the
22 conspiracy with regard to marijuana.
23 Now, what I have said does not apply to
24 Genduso's statement about the buying of the house and
25 putting it in somebody else's name.

166
1 MR. LEVITT: Your Honor, may I just be heard
2 briefly? I believe under Petrozziello you need to first
3 make a determination after you've heard the evidence.
4 And you haven't heard the evidence yet on the
5 money-laundering conspiracy and --
6 THE COURT: All right. Go ahead and put it on
7 the record.
8 MR. LEVITT: -- then at that point you need to
9 make a determination under a preponderance of the
10 evidence as to whether it's more likely than not that
11 she was a member of the conspiracy and that the
12 statement was in furtherance.
13 And I want to make two other points. One is I
14 believe the Court is wrong on a couple of levels when it
15 says -- when it compartmentalizes the conspiracy. And
16 the First Circuit has addressed this issue in Field,
17 which was cited in our brief. That's a case where a
18 statement had to do with what they called a
19 snatch-and-grab robbery, and the defendants argued that
20 because they were -- and this was a robbery of a
21 store -- it referred to bank robbery -- it was a
22 different conspiracy.
23 The First Circuit said no. "When a party
24 knowingly boards the conspiracy train, he assumes
25 responsibility for all conduct whether or not he's

167
1 conscious of its extent. Once they're part of the same
2 conspiracy, it doesn't matter." And more pointedly,
3 your Honor, the money-laundering conspiracy and the
4 drug-trafficking conspiracy are intertwined. This took
5 place during the pendency of both.
6 And the question of "Do you know if your
7 parents" -- "Do your parents know that you're involved
8 in drug trafficking" has to do as well with the fact
9 that there are hundreds of thousands of dollars going
10 through Catherine Bucci's bank account; with the fact
11 that the house is in the name of Catherine Bucci; with
12 the fact that she is -- Ms. Genduso is being asked by
13 Sean Bucci to deposit money into bank accounts.
14 THE COURT: This could be argued and reargued
15 indefinitely. I don't see how I can be expected to rule
16 five times.
17 Do you want to make a statement?
18 MR. SINSHEIMER: Well, I am -- I'm not going to
19 reargue it. I'm pleased with the Court's --
20 THE COURT: Of course.
21 MR. SINSHEIMER: -- ruling.
22 I do want to say, though, as to the ones you're
23 going to let in, I don't want to, you know, try to bite
24 off more of the apple than I'm entitled to, and I do
25 think if they're not directly in furtherance of the

168
1 money-laundering conspiracy, then I ought to get a
2 curative instruction that they're only in against Sean
3 Bucci at some point, whether it be at the end of the
4 case --
5 THE COURT: I don't know what there is to cure,
6 but --
7 MR. SINSHEIMER: I hear you. That's why I'm not
8 pressing it right at this juncture. I'm just pointing
9 out that if it's coming in only against him, at some
10 point I think I have the right to let the jury know
11 that.
12 THE COURT: That's a separate issue. If I'm
13 required to hear the witness before I make a definitive
14 ruling, I'd like to hear the witness, then.
15 MR. LEVITT: That's fine. Are you saying with
16 the jury here while we're doing the evidence?
17 THE COURT: Whatever you believe is proper
18 procedure.
19 MR. LEVITT: Okay. That's what I would do, your
20 Honor. And then I'll just ask to come to sidebar after
21 there has actually been some evidence of her involvement
22 in the money-laundering conspiracy.
23 The only other thing I would mention, Mr.
24 Sinsheimer had, at sidebar, moved for a mistrial
25 based --

169
1 MR. SINSHEIMER: I withdraw it.
2 THE COURT: Are we ready for the jury, then?
3 MR. LEVITT: Yes.
4 MR. SINNIS: Judge, I'm sorry, there is one
5 thing I would like to bring up very brief. There was
6 testimony from Mr. Carbone, and I expect there's going
7 to be testimony from Mrs. Genduso, that cash money was
8 given to lawyers for certain reasons in this case to
9 represent Sean, to represent other people.
10 I just think it's important for the judge to
11 give a brief instruction to the jury that none of the
12 lawyers presently involved in the case are in any way
13 intimate with that or involved in that, because I don't
14 want us to be somehow besmirched by that in terms of
15 receiving drug money or anything to that effect.
16 THE COURT: I wouldn't have thought that there
17 was any reason to believe they would think that, so if
18 you want to prepare a proposed charge in writing, I will
19 consider it.
20 MR. SINSHEIMER: I had given that the same
21 thought, your Honor, and then I didn't stand up, but I
22 will join that, because I saw a couple of them looking
23 at me funny, to be honest with you. I don't know what
24 they know. So I think it's a good idea.
25 MR. SINNIS: I'll do that, then, your Honor.

170
1 LEIGHA GENDUSO, resumed
3 (Jury in at 2:14 p.m.)
4 THE COURT: Good afternoon, ladies and
5 gentlemen. I'm sorry I kept you waiting.
6 DIRECT EXAMINATION (Cont'd)
7 BY MR. LEVITT:
8 Q. Ms. Genduso, when you were living at 23 Marshall
9 Street, did you see any of the bills that came to the
10 house?
11 A. Yes, I did.
12 Q. Did you ever help pay them?
13 A. Yes, I did.
14 Q. Did you ever see the mortgage bills?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Whose name were they in?
17 A. Catherine and William Bucci.
18 Q. Did you ever ask Sean Bucci about why 23 Marshall
19 Street was in his parents' name?
20 A. Yes, I did.
21 MR. SINSHEIMER: Your Honor, respectfully, I
22 object. May I have a running objection on the issue so
23 I don't have to keep objecting?
24 THE COURT: Yes. And I'm overruling the
25 objection.

171
1 MR. SINSHEIMER: I understand. But I have to --
2 THE COURT: Yes.
4 BY MR. LEVITT:
5 Q. Did you ever ask him why that was?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Can you describe what he said?
8 A. He answered that basically if anything ever
9 happened, no one would be able to take his house.
10 Q. And what did you take him to mean when he said "if
11 anything ever happened"?
14 BY MR. LEVITT:
15 Q. Did you ever help him count the money he made?
16 A. Yes.
18 A. It depended. Sometimes it would go through the
19 money machine. Other times it would be as simple as
20 five grand.
21 Q. Did you ever do anything else with this cash?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. What?
24 A. I would deposit increments of money into his bank
25 account in Middleton.

172
1 Q. Why?
2 A. Because he asked me to.
3 Q. Generally speaking, what sort of increments are we
4 speaking about?
5 A. It was always under the sum of $10,000 cash.
6 Q. About how many times did you do that?
7 A. Many, many times. I'd say well over 20.
8 Q. Could you describe how this would work?
9 A. He would give me a bank deposit slip with, most of
10 the time, $9,000 in cash, and I would go to the bank in
11 Middleton and deposit it.
12 Q. Walk into the bank with it?
13 A. Yeah. I tried doing drive-through on several
14 occasions, but they preferred me to actually go in to
15 the bank.
16 Q. Who did?
17 A. The drive-through teller.
18 Q. Did you ever talk with Sean Bucci about the amounts
19 you were depositing for him?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. What did you ask him?
22 A. I asked him why it was never over $10,000.
24 A. Because anything over $10,000 you will get reported
25 by the bank to the IRS.

173
1 Q. Did you do any traveling with Sean Bucci?
2 A. Yes, I did.
3 Q. Where did you go?
4 A. We went to Florida once. We went to Aruba on
5 several occasions, Jamaica.
6 Q. Anywhere else?
7 A. Not that I can think of off the top of my head.
8 Q. And this is during what period?
9 A. I think between 2000 and 2003.
11 that?
12 A. Yes, I do.
13 Q. What is it?
14 A. It's a picture of me holding up a marijuana bud in
15 Jamaica.
16 Q. How long did you guys go to Jamaica?
17 A. I remember us going for a week.
18 Q. Where did you stay?
19 A. We stayed at Sandals Resort, which is an
20 all-inclusive hotel in Ocho Rios.
21 Q. Who paid?
22 A. Sean.
23 Q. For everything?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. When you were in Jamaica, what did he use to pay for

174
1 things?
2 A. Cash, and then credit cards.
3 Q. How long did you go to Florida for?
4 A. I'm pretty sure we went for around a week.
5 Q. Who did you go with?
6 A. It was me, Sean, Jay Zeramby and his wife Colleen.
8 A. We stayed in Orlando. I don't recall the exact name
9 of the hotel.
10 THE COURT: Did you go to Disney World?
11 THE WITNESS: We went to the other parks.
12 BY MR. LEVITT:
13 Q. Who paid for the trip?
14 A. Sean.
15 Q. Paid for your ticket?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Hotel?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Do you know if he paid for anyone else?
20 A. It was at the time that J.Z. just got off parole
21 from being in jail. I don't recall if he paid for him
22 and Colleen.
23 Q. How many times did you go to Aruba?
24 A. Three to four times.
25 Q. And how long did you typically go for?

175
1 A. Typically one week. One time we did go for the
2 duration of two weeks.
3 Q. Do you recall where you stayed the first time you
4 went?
5 A. Yes. It was formerly known as the Allegro.
6 Q. You went with Sean Bucci?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Anyone else?
9 A. That time I recall, I think it was just me and him.
10 Q. Did you ever go with Sean Bucci's parents?
11 A. Yes, I did.
12 Q. Do you recall when?
13 A. It was either 2002 or 2003.
14 Q. The four of you went?
15 A. Yes.
17 A. We also stayed at the Allegro again.
18 Q. What kind of place is that?
19 A. It's an all-inclusive four- to five-star resort.
20 Q. I show you Government Exhibit 66F. Do you recognize
21 that?
22 A. Yes. That is the back of the Allegro.
23 Q. Who paid for that trip?
24 A. Sean did.
25 Q. How do you know?

176
1 A. I was there.
2 Q. He paid for you?
3 A. He paid for me and his parents.
4 Q. And when you were there, who paid for the dinners?
5 A. Sean did.
6 Q. The tickets? Plane tickets?
7 A. Yeah. We went to -- I went with him to the travel
8 agency that he traveled. So I was present for that as
9 well.
10 Q. And then you went a third time?
11 A. Yes.
13 A. It was 2003. And it was at a timeshare at Costa
14 Linda.
15 Q. Would you describe what happened with respect to
16 this trip?
17 A. This was basically the last time I stated that I was
18 ever going to go considering he had a severe gambling
19 problem. And we just argued, more or less, the whole
20 time.
21 Q. How long did you go for?
22 A. A week.
23 Q. Did he go for a week?
24 A. No.
25 Q. How long did he go for?

177
1 A. He stayed at Costa Linda for a month.
2 Q. Were there other people that went?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Who?
5 A. Let's see. Darren Martin went to visit him, Jay
6 Zeramby, Jay Zeramby's brother-in-law Larry, Butchy,
7 Eric Carbone -- Butchy is also known as Jan Jefgood --
8 excuse me, Chris Bleicher.
9 Q. How often was he gambling when you were there?
10 A. Quite excessively.
11 Q. Did you see how much -- did you see what he was
12 playing?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. What?
15 A. He usually played blackjack.
16 Q. Did you see how much he was gambling at a time?
19 THE WITNESS: Usually it was increments of $500
20 per bet, sometimes more, sometimes less.
21 BY MR. LEVITT:
22 Q. I show you what's been marked as Government 66E. Do
23 you recognize that?
24 A. Yes, I do. That's Costa Linda.
25 Q. During the time that you knew Sean Bucci, how often

178
1 did he go to Aruba?
2 A. He went a couple of times too without me as well, so
3 several times.
4 Q. Did you ever have any conversation with him about
5 his plans for Aruba?
6 A. Yes.
8 A. Basically before June '03 that was going to be his
9 last shipment of marijuana, and he was going to open up
10 a nightclub in Aruba.
11 Q. Was he planning on moving there?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Did he talk to you about buying property there?
14 A. Yes, he did.
15 Q. Did he ever tell you what the name of the nightclub
16 was?
17 A. Yes. It was going to be called Heaven.
19 45B. Did you ever see any paperwork with respect to
20 Heaven?
21 A. Yes, I did.
22 Q. What kind?
23 A. He made up business cards. He also wrote down a
24 summary of what it would be on the computer.
25 Q. I show you Government Exhibit 45B. Do you recognize

179
1 that?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. What is it?
4 A. Those are his business cards that he made.
5 Q. And who's Giovanni Carter?
6 A. He was a resident of Aruba who came down to the
7 States frequently and met Sean. And they were going to
8 operate this business together.
9 MR. LEVITT: Your Honor, if it has already not
10 been admitted, I move to admit Government Exhibit 45B.
14 (Government's Exhibit No. 45B was received into
15 evidence.)
16 BY MR. LEVITT:
17 Q. I show you Government Exhibit 66D. Can you tell us
18 who these people are?
19 A. To the back far left, that's Eric Carbone; second is
20 Jason Zeramby; third is Giovanni Carter.
21 Q. Did Mr. Bucci indicate where his nightclub was going
22 to be located?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Where?
25 A. Particularly, there was an area open in a casino.

180
1 Q. Do you recall any other trips that Mr. Bucci took
2 his parents on?
3 A. I do recall once in the beginning of our
4 relationship he bought them a trip to Las Vegas for
5 their anniversary.
6 Q. Do you know whether they went?
7 A. No, I don't remember.
8 Q. You don't know if they went to --
9 A. No, I know they went. I don't remember where they,
10 like, stayed.
11 Q. How do you know they went?
12 A. Because I was present for picking them up at the
13 airport with Sean.
14 Q. Do you know if he ever bought anything for his
15 parents?
16 A. Yes, he did.
17 Q. What?
18 A. One major occasion he bought them siding and windows
19 for their house.
20 Q. Did you talk to him about that?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Do you remember when that happened?
23 A. I'm thinking 2002.
24 Q. And tell me what -- about your conversation with
25 Sean Bucci about that.

181
1 A. He said it was going to cost him a lot of money,
2 around $20,000.
3 Q. You mentioned you saw Bucci's bills at home. Did he
4 pay for anything else for his parents?
5 A. Yes, he did.
6 Q. What?
7 A. His father's life insurance bill that would always
8 come in the mail.
9 MR. LEVITT: Approach sidebar, your Honor?
10 THE COURT: Me? Okay.
12 the jury:)
13 MR. LEVITT: At this point, your Honor, I would
14 be asking the witness -- I would be going into asking
15 the witness about whether she's concerned -- based on
16 all the money in the house, the money he was spending,
17 the fact that she was bringing money to the banks for
18 him in denominations under $10,000, depositing them,
19 whether she was concerned about that.
20 I want to ask, "Did you ever talk with him about
21 it?
22 "Yes.
23 "Did you ever talk to him about what his parents
24 knew?
25 "Yes.

182
1 "Why?
2 "I was concerned about, you know, whether they
3 knew what was going on.
4 "What did he say?
5 "He said they knew he was a marijuana dealer and
6 they didn't care."
7 THE COURT: Of course I know that's what the
8 ultimate question will be. If you want to create the
9 record, it's up to you, but when you get to that
10 question --
11 MR. LEVITT: Well, I guess the question is: I
12 mean, I can do that and --
13 THE COURT: I mean, it's what I said earlier to
14 the defendants. If I'm wrong, there's nothing you could
15 do about it.
16 MR. LEVITT: My point is simply now you've heard
17 some evidence that she was laundering money for him
18 because you've heard --
19 THE COURT: Oh, I didn't have any question about
20 that before.
21 MR. LEVITT: I thought you did.
22 MR. SINSHEIMER: I have a different objection
23 now. Are you finished? I don't mean to cut you off.
24 No one has ever disclosed a scintilla of
25 evidence that this young lady was concerned about the

183
1 fact that the money was in -- that the house was in my
2 client's name or there was --
3 THE COURT: All right. That's a statement you
4 can make for the record but --
5 MR. SINSHEIMER: I'm making it. I'm asking he
6 not be allowed to ask for a different reason: for
7 failure to provide discovery. And my brother and sister
8 here, if I'm wrong, but I was looking over that stuff at
9 lunch --
10 THE COURT: We're not going to go over this at
11 this time.
12 MR. SINNIS: We join in that.
13 MR. SINSHEIMER: This is brand-new.
14 MR. LEVITT: Do you want me to proceed?
15 THE COURT: I don't know whether you're telling
16 me that the law requires you put your questions on the
17 record before I rule.
18 MR. LEVITT: Well, no. I mean, look --
19 THE COURT: I believe I've heard what you're
20 going to ask and I understand it, and I don't think it's
21 a capricious position of the government at all, but I've
22 ruled after a good deal of soul-searching.
23 MR. LEVITT: That's what I want to ask.
24 MR. SINSHEIMER: I don't think he should even be
25 allowed to ask the questions, so I'm objecting for the

184
1 record.
2 (In open court:)
3 BY MR. LEVITT:
4 Q. When you were living with Sean Bucci, did you see
5 his credit card bills?
6 A. Yes, I did.
7 Q. Did you ever pay any of them for him?
8 A. I did during the duration that he was in jail for,
9 yes.
10 Q. What was the -- how many credit cards did he have?
11 A. To my knowledge, three.
12 Q. What were the typical balances on them?
13 A. Typically anything over $20,000.
15 99C. This is for the month of July 2002. Is this
16 pretty consistent with what you saw on his bills?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Typically where was he -- where were the charges
19 being rung up?
20 MS. BYRNE: Objection, your Honor, as to
21 "typically." Over what, a month, a year?
22 I would object to this question.
23 THE COURT: If there's a question about that,
24 you can cross-examine on it.
25 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. Can you repeat that?

185
1 MR. LEVITT: I'm sorry. I didn't hear that,
2 your Honor.
3 THE COURT: I said if there's a question about
4 the details that Ms. Byrne is concerned about, she can
5 cross-examine about it.
6 BY MR. LEVITT:
7 Q. What were the charges on Sean Bucci's credit cards?
8 Was there anything typical in terms of what he was
9 charging?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. What?
12 A. Usually they were cash advances when he was in
13 Aruba.
14 Q. Where were you living on June 4, 2003?
15 A. 23 Marshall Street, North Reading.
16 Q. Anything happen the previous week?
17 A. The previous --
18 Q. The days leading up to June 4th.
19 A. Yes. Anthony Belmonte was supposed to come with a
20 shipment I think a week prior. Things got held up, and
21 he called the day before.
22 Q. Did you have a conversation with Sean Bucci about
23 it?
24 A. Yes.

186
1 A. Just stated that Anthony was going to come over the
2 day of June 4th.
3 Q. And did you and Mr. Bucci do anything?
4 A. We went over to his mom's house and got the money,
5 as usual.
6 Q. Did you stay in the car?
7 A. Yes. Always.
8 Q. And did you see him come out of the house?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. What did he have?
11 A. A bag with money.
12 Q. Did you see anything on the morning of June 4, 2003?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. What?
15 A. Well, I woke up, saw that Anthony was pulling in
16 with his U-Haul trailer. They were having problems, so
17 they each tried to drive around the block and rearrange
18 it to pull it in. Sean tried doing it as well. And I
19 went back to sleep.
20 Q. Where did you see that?
21 A. I saw that on the surveillance camera in the
22 bedroom.
23 Q. Did something happen after you went to sleep?
24 A. Yes. Sean woke me up quite ecstatic [sic].
25 Q. I'm sorry. I didn't hear you.

187
1 A. Sean woke me up very upset.
2 Q. Did he say anything?
3 A. He told me to get out of the house, and that there
4 was a box in the trunk that he put in there.
5 Q. Did he say where to go?
6 A. No.
7 Q. What did you do?
8 A. I put on gym clothes and got my dog, and was about
9 to leave when the phone rang.
10 Q. Who was it?
11 A. It was Anthony Belmonte.
13 A. He stated that he was pulled over down the street by
14 the Lynnfield line, that they found something, like a
15 bad inspection sticker or something on his rental, and
16 was wondering if we could come pick him up.
17 Q. What did you say?
18 A. I said Sean was in the bathroom, "Can he call you
19 back?"
20 Q. Was that true?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Where was Sean?
23 A. He had already left.
25 A. I hung up, called Sean, let him know he called,

188
1 Anthony called.
2 Q. And then what did you do?
3 A. I left.
4 Q. I show you Government Exhibit 16C. Do you remember
5 seeing a video from June 4, 2003?
6 A. Yes, I did.
7 Q. And what did it show?
8 A. It showed me leaving the house, opening my trunk,
9 checking that there was a box in my trunk, putting my
10 dog in the car and leaving.
11 Q. What did you do when you left 23 Marshall Street?
12 A. First thing I did is drove to Don O'Connor's house
13 thinking that Sean would have went there first.
14 Q. What happened when you got there?
15 A. No one was there.
17 A. Next I went to Sean's parents' house on 4 Loris
18 Road.
19 Q. What did you do when you went there?
20 A. I knocked on the door. No one answered, so I walked
21 in, put the box into the closet -- it was like a coat
22 closet -- and left.
23 Q. Did you know what was in the box at that point?
24 A. Yes, I did.
25 Q. How did you know?

189
1 A. Because he told me.
2 Q. What did he tell you?
3 A. Before leaving 23 Marshall Street he told me there's
4 a box of money in my trunk.
5 Q. So after you dropped off the money at 4 Loris Road,
6 what did you do?
7 A. I then drove by 23 Marshall Street to see what was
8 going on.
9 Q. What did you see?
10 A. I saw numerous officers all over the lawn, in the
11 driveway.
12 Q. What did you do at that point?
13 A. I kept driving. And the next thing, you know, I
14 went to where I used to work, a nightclub called Spin.
15 Q. What did you do there?
16 A. Well, I knew my best friend at the time was doing
17 inventory there. I asked if I could borrow a car, and
18 to get her friend's number who was an attorney.
19 Q. What was the name of your friend?
20 A. Jessica Columbo.
21 Q. Why did you ask to borrow her car?
22 A. Because I was worried my car was marked and I was
23 going to get pulled over in it.
24 Q. What was the name of the attorney that you got from
25 Ms. Columbo?

190
1 A. Gary Zerola.
2 Q. What did you do next?
3 A. Contacted Gary Zerola via my cell phone. We figured
4 out that it was best to meet somewhere immediately, so I
5 planned to meet him at the Northern Grind Coffee Shop in
6 Beverly.
7 Q. Who's that owned by?
8 A. Eric Carbone.
9 Q. So what happened next?
10 A. I went to the Northern Grind to where I met up with
11 Carbone, Jason Carnes, and Eric Remens also eventually
12 appeared, and Gary Zerola came to meet me.
13 Q. And did you have a conversation there with them?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Based on that, what did you do?
16 A. I told Mr. Zerola about the situation that occurred,
17 gave him some sort of simplistic background information,
18 told him what I had, told him that I thought Sean was
19 arrested. And he said he was going to go to 23 Marshall
20 Street to check out the situation.
22 A. I spoke with Carbone and told him that I have, you
23 know, the box at Sean's mother's house. And Eric Remens
24 and I decided to go get them.
25 Q. To get the box?

191
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And so did you go back to 4 Loris Road?
3 A. Yes, I did.
4 Q. Was anybody home?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Who?
7 A. Catherine.
8 Q. Did you have a conversation with her?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. What did you say to her?
11 A. I had told her I was in the house before, earlier,
12 and that I left the box in the closet, and that her son
13 had most likely been arrested at this point.
14 Q. Did you tell her what was in the box?
15 A. I might have said "box of money," yes.
16 Q. What did Catherine Bucci say in response?
17 A. She alerted me that there were safes also in the
18 house.
19 Q. Did she tell you where?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Where?
22 A. In the basement.
23 Q. Did she ask what Sean Bucci was arrested for?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Did she express surprise that Sean Bucci had a box

192
1 of money?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Did you go get the safes?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. How did you find them?
6 A. She brought us downstairs.
7 Q. Where were they?
8 A. In the basement.
9 Q. How big were they?
10 A. I don't recall exactly, but I would say maybe
11 2-by-2, possibly.
12 Q. And how did you get them out of the house?
13 A. Eric helped me carry them out.
14 Q. And did you also get the box of money?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Where did you put everything?
17 A. I put everything in the back of my friend's car that
18 I was driving.
19 Q. What did you do then?
20 A. Drove back to the Northern Grind.
21 Q. And did you meet anybody at the Northern Grind?
22 A. Yes. Jan Jefgood, also known as Butchy, was there,
23 and we agreed to put the money in his apartment with the
24 safes.
25 Q. Where did he live?

193
1 A. He lived in Beverly, two streets down.
2 Q. And did you do that that day?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. What's the next thing that happened with respect to
5 the box of money and the safes?
6 A. Butchy started getting really nervous about it a few
7 days later, so me and Gary Zerola decided that we'd
8 bring it to his apartment in Boston.
9 Q. To whose apartment?
10 A. Gary Zerola's.
11 Q. So who went and got the box of money and the safes
12 out of Jan Jefgood's apartment?
13 A. I took my vehicle, went to Butchy's, Jan Jefgood,
14 and he carried the safes into my trunk, and the box of
15 money as well.
16 Q. And where did you go?
17 A. Then I drove out to Boston to Gary Zerola's
18 apartment.
19 Q. Did Mr. Zerola tell you what he was going to do with
20 the money and the safes?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. What?
23 A. That he was going to put them in his friend's
24 safe -- his friend owned a restaurant somewhere.
25 Q. So do you recall where Gary Zerola lived?

194
1 A. It was kind of by the -- I forget the exact name of
2 the street. I could drive there. It was by the -- name
3 off some areas and I'll be able to tell you.
4 Q. It was in Boston?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. What happened when you got to Gary Zerola's
7 apartment?
8 A. I called him on my cell phone, let him know that I'm
9 in front of his building. And he came out to help me
10 carry the safes in.
11 Q. When you got in the apartment, what did you do?
12 A. I counted the money.
13 Q. How much was in the box?
14 A. $275,000.
15 Q. How was it packaged?
16 A. It was all elastic-banded, all in increments of
17 $5,000.
18 Q. Had you told Attorney Zerola where the money came
19 from?
20 A. Yes, I did.
21 Q. Did you tell him what Sean Bucci did for a living?
22 A. Yes, I did.
23 Q. At some point did Sean Bucci hire Gary Zerola?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. How did that come about?

195
1 A. I actually hired Gary for him, technically, the day
2 of June 4th. But then Gary and Mike Natola went to see
3 him at Plymouth County.
4 Q. Who's Mike Natola?
5 A. Mike Natola at the time was, for the first two
6 weeks, like my lawyer, but then Sean also hired him for
7 representation.
8 Q. How did Mike Natola become your lawyer?
9 A. Through Gary.
10 Q. Did you have any conversation with Gary Zerola about
11 his fee?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Can you describe that?
14 A. He said it was going to be around $50,000.
15 Q. And did you have any conversations with Sean Bucci
16 about that?
17 A. Well, the first week that he was in jail I had no
18 contact with him whatsoever, couldn't go visit him, but
19 he accepted that with Gary.
20 Q. And did you arrange to have Gary Zerola paid
21 $50,000?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. How?
24 A. He told me he was going to extract it from the box.
25 Q. Did he give you a receipt?

196
1 A. No.
2 Q. Did he give you any paperwork whatsoever?
3 A. No.
4 Q. What happened with Mike Natola?
5 A. Sean agreed for representation with not only Gary
6 but Mike Natola as well.
7 Q. And how was Mike Natola's fee determined?
8 A. That was determined through Gary, Mike and Sean.
9 Q. How much was it?
10 A. I don't remember approximately how much it was.
11 Anywhere from 25 to 50.
12 Q. And where did that money come from?
13 A. The box.
14 Q. Did you get a receipt?
15 A. No.
16 Q. At some point you got into the prison and you could
17 talk with Sean Bucci?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Did you have any conversations about Darren Martin?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Describe those conversations.
22 A. The first time that Gary and Mike went to see Sean
23 they also brought another attorney named Hank Brennan to
24 visit them as well, where Darren hired Hank.
25 Q. And did you have any conversations with Sean Bucci

197
1 about Darren Martin?
2 A. In regards to his lawyer?
3 Q. Yes.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. What?
6 A. That he was going to pay for Darren's lawyer as
7 well.
8 Q. And do you know how much Sean Bucci paid for Darren
9 Martin's lawyer?
10 A. I remember it being around 20,000.
11 Q. Where did that money come from?
12 A. It came from the box as well.
13 Q. I'm sorry?
14 A. It came from the box as well.
15 Q. Did you get a receipt?
16 A. No.
17 Q. You had Mike Natola at some point. Did you get a
18 new lawyer?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Who?
21 A. Elliot Weinstein.
22 Q. And did you talk with Sean Bucci about that?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And how did Elliot Weinstein come to represent you?
25 A. He was an associate of Mike Natola's. Not so much

198
1 an associate, but they worked together sometimes on
2 cases.
3 Q. And you said you had a conversation with Sean Bucci
4 about this?
5 A. Yes, I did.
6 Q. What did Sean Bucci say about it?
7 A. Well, I told him that it's going to cost money for
8 representation of Elliot on my behalf as well, and he
9 agreed.
10 Q. How much --
11 A. 15,000.
13 THE COURT: Weinstein represented you?
15 BY MR. LEVITT:
17 A. It came from the box, as well, of money.
18 Q. Who gave the cash to Weinstein?
19 A. I did.
20 Q. Get a receipt?
21 A. No.
22 Q. How long did Gary Zerola have the money box and the
23 safes?
24 A. These are approximates but it could have been up to
25 a month.

199
1 Q. Where did they go next?
2 A. Well, once I had actual visitation with Sean, he
3 basically was telling me, like, through code, so to
4 speak, that he felt comfortable with the box being with
5 Eric Carbone.
6 Q. Why?
7 A. Because that was his friend, and he felt most
8 comfortable with the money being accessible to him.
9 Q. So what did you do at that point?
10 A. At that point I set up an arrangement to get the box
11 and the safes from Gary Zerola and meet up with Eric
12 Carbone so he could put them into his house.
13 Q. And did you meet up with Eric Carbone?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And what did you give him?
16 A. I gave him the safes as well as the box of money.
17 Q. Do you know where he put them?
18 A. Somewhere in his house.
19 Q. Did you subsequently get any money from the money
20 box?
21 A. Yes; through Eric Carbone.
22 Q. How would you do that?
23 A. I would make arrangements with him. Either I'd go
24 into the Northern Grind a day prior to getting access to
25 the money, asking him for it, and then going back there

200
1 the next day.
2 Q. Where were you living at this time?
3 A. 23 Marshall Street.
4 Q. Did Sean Bucci ask you to do anything while he was
5 in prison?
6 A. Yes, he did.
7 Q. What?
8 A. Pay his bills.
9 Q. And what did you use to pay those bills?
10 A. The cash.
11 Q. Did Sean Bucci give you any instructions on how to
12 do that?
13 A. Yes. He told me to pay through money orders.
14 Q. And how would that work?
15 A. I'd go to different places, post office, Honey
16 Farms; I'd get money orders up to $500 apiece.
17 Q. Did you have any conversations with Sean Bucci about
18 this?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Describe those conversations.
21 A. Well, he was in jail at the time, and I was very
22 worried about paying for bills with cash through money
23 orders.
24 Q. And so what did you tell him?
25 A. I told him I was worried.

201
2 A. He said, quote/unquote, You can't get in trouble for
3 paying bills.
4 Q. So what bills did you pay?
5 A. His credit card bills, the mortgage, electrical,
6 phone.
7 Q. Did you have any other arguments with Sean Bucci at
8 this time about the bills?
9 A. I just didn't feel comfortable ever paying in cash.
10 Q. I show you --
11 MR. LEVITT: This is not marked at this time.
12 I'd ask that it be marked as Government's Exhibit 113.
13 THE COURT: 113?
14 MR. LEVITT: 113.
15 (Government's Exhibit No. 113 was marked for
16 identification.)
17 BY MR. LEVITT:
18 Q. Do you recognize that?
19 A. Yes, I do.
20 Q. What is it?
21 A. It's a money order for World Savings, which was his
22 mortgage bill.
23 Q. And Government Exhibit 114. Do recognize that?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. What is it?

202
1 A. It's another mortgage money order.
2 Q. Are these money orders that you did?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And where did the money come from for these money
5 orders?
6 A. It came from the cash that Eric Carbone still had.
7 Q. And 115. Do you see that?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Is that your handwriting?
10 A. Yes. Well, it was my handwriting, but I was trying
11 to make it not my handwriting.
12 Q. What do you mean?
13 A. I didn't want it tracing back to me.
14 Q. Why did you write "Catherine Bucci" on it?
15 A. Because the mortgage is under her name.
16 Q. Did you have a conversation with Sean about that?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Did you spell her name right?
19 A. No.
20 Q. What else did you use the money box for?
21 A. Bills to help me live in the house.
22 Q. Did you pay his credit card bills?
23 A. Yes.
25 A. I don't remember, but I know it was basically the

203
1 minimum due.
2 THE COURT: Where were you living at this
3 period?
4 THE WITNESS: I was living at 23 Marshall Street
5 still.
6 THE COURT: And what did you do for personal
7 expenses?
8 THE WITNESS: I was still bartending, but I also
9 used it for personal expenses as well, your Honor.
10 BY MR. LEVITT:
11 Q. What sort of personal expenses did you use the money
12 from the money box for?
13 A. Groceries, I got my wisdom teeth extracted.
14 THE COURT: That was a good idea.
15 THE WITNESS: Sorry?
16 BY MR. LEVITT:
17 Q. What else?
18 A. Car payments, living situations, drinks, whatever.
19 Q. Did Sean Bucci ever ask you to buy anything?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. What?
22 A. A computer.
23 Q. Did you do it?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. You used the money box?

204
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. During this time when you met with Sean Bucci in
3 prison, did he ever ask you to bring money to anybody?
4 A. Yes, he did.
5 Q. To who?
6 A. Two different people.
7 Q. Start with one.
8 A. One of them was his mom.
9 Q. And did you do that?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Do you recall how much you gave her?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Did you have a conversation with her at the time?
14 A. Not really. We really weren't talking after the
15 beginning. This was in the beginning when he was
16 arrested.
17 Q. Who else did you -- did Sean Bucci ask you to bring
18 money to?
19 A. Darren Martin.
20 Q. Did you have a conversation with Sean Bucci about
21 why he wanted you to bring money to Darren Martin?
22 A. Yes. Well, he was living at the Cape and he was
23 broke.
24 Q. Did Sean Bucci ask you to talk to Darren Martin?
25 A. Yes.

205
1 Q. What did Sean Bucci ask you to talk to Darren Martin
2 about?
3 A. He wanted to find out -- he wanted me to find out if
4 Darren was cooperating or not.
5 Q. And did you go meet with Darren Martin?
6 A. Yes, I did.
7 Q. And did you give him money?
8 A. Yes, I did.
9 Q. Do you recall how much?
10 A. It was like 800 to $1,000.
11 Q. And did you ask him about whether he was
12 cooperating?
13 A. Yes.
15 A. He told me no.
16 Q. And did you communicate that back to Sean Bucci?
17 A. Yes, I did.
18 Q. Did you bring Darren Martin any money on any other
19 occasions?
20 A. I possibly could have once after that as well.
21 Q. Did you ever subsequently see Sean Bucci give Darren
22 Martin any money?
23 A. Yes, after he got out of jail and was house-arrested
24 at his uncle's.
25 Q. Don O'Connor's house?

206
1 A. Yes.
3 A. Maybe once or twice.
4 Q. Do you remember how much?
5 A. No. A couple of hundred.
6 Q. Did you still live at 23 Marshall Street?
7 A. No.
8 Q. When did you move out?
9 A. I moved out, let's see, December of '04.
10 Q. Are you still dating Sean Bucci?
11 A. No.
12 Q. When did you split up?
13 A. I'd say November of '04.
14 Q. Were you ever engaged?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. To Sean Bucci?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Someone else?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Who? Well, let me ask you: Are you married now?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. When was the last time you spoke with Sean Bucci?
23 A. It was like the week before my last grand jury
24 appearance.
25 Q. Where did you see him?

207
1 A. I went to see him at his uncle's house in Peabody.
2 Q. Why?
3 A. Because I wanted to talk to him about the situation.
4 Q. Now, was that the first grand jury subpoena you had
5 gotten?
6 A. No.
7 Q. What happened --
8 THE COURT: Excuse me. When did you say this
9 was?
10 THE WITNESS: This was around September.
11 THE COURT: Of what year?
12 THE WITNESS: Was it '05?
14 BY MR. LEVITT:
15 Q. Your reference is that it was shortly before your
16 second grand jury appearance?
17 A. That's correct.
18 Q. And what happened when you got your first grand jury
19 subpoena?
20 A. I pled the Fifth.
21 Q. And then what happened?
22 A. I got re-subpoenaed. My Fifth Amendment rights were
23 no longer in existence.
24 Q. You had one of those orders that I showed you
25 earlier?

208
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. So you wanted to talk to Sean Bucci about this?
3 A. Yes.
4 MS. BYRNE: Objection to leading, your Honor.
5 THE COURT: She's already said so.
6 MS. BYRNE: Can we approach sidebar, your Honor,
7 about what the next topic is going to be here?
8 She's going into an area, your Honor, that we
9 need to address at sidebar.
12 the jury:)
13 THE COURT: Just out of curiosity, are you
14 nearly through?
15 MR. LEVITT: Yes.
16 MR. SINNIS: Your Honor, I anticipate the next
17 line of questioning here is going to be regarding her
18 conversation with Mr. Bucci before she goes into the
19 grand jury and whether or not there was any pressure or
20 coercion put on her by him about what to say or not to
21 say in the grand jury. I don't see how this has any
22 relevance whatsoever to what we're here to decide. I
23 think we've gotten so far afield at this point that now
24 we're going to talk about things that happened two years
25 after the offense conduct charged here, and that it is

209
1 completely irrelevant to anything, what conversation
2 they had two years after the fact about whether she
3 should go before the grand jury or not go before the
4 grand jury. I think it is completely prejudicial.
5 Highly prejudicial.
6 MR. SINSHEIMER: Join.
7 MR. LEVITT: Your Honor, the evidence of
8 obstruction of justice --
9 MR. SINNIS: There's no charge.
10 MR. LEVITT: The evidence -- excuse me. Thank
11 you for letting me finish, both of you. I appreciate
12 it.
13 MR. SINNIS: Just finish, Peter.
14 THE COURT: Go ahead.
15 MR. LEVITT: Evidence of obstruction of justice
16 is evidence of underlying guilt on the charges.
17 MR. SINNIS: They've never sought --
18 THE COURT: I'll allow it but don't --
19 MR. SINNIS: They never sought to admit on those
20 grounds. They wouldn't even be in limine on that, your
21 Honor.
22 (In open court:)
23 BY MR. LEVITT:
24 Q. When you went to see Sean Bucci at his uncle's
25 house, did you have a conversation with him about the

210
1 grand jury subpoena?
2 A. Yes, I did.
3 Q. What did you say to him?
4 MS. BYRNE: Objection, your Honor. I would just
5 ask for a continuing objection on this topic.
6 THE COURT: I thought I ruled on it over there.
7 Sustained -- overruled.
8 MS. BYRNE: Thank you, your Honor.
9 BY MR. LEVITT:
10 Q. What did you say to him?
11 A. Well, we had discussions about it prior to me
12 meeting him for the last time at his uncle's house. I
13 told him I can't plead the Fifth again; if I do, I could
14 go in for contempt for up to two years.
16 A. He said no judge would put me away in jail for two
17 years for contempt.
18 Q. Are you still living in the North Reading area?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Have you had any contact with Sean Bucci and his
21 friends since that last conversation with Sean Bucci?
22 A. No.
23 Q. You've moved to a different part of the state?
24 A. Yes, I did.
25 Q. You said you're married?

211
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. How long?
3 A. Since May of last year.
4 Q. When was the last time you used marijuana?
5 A. 2003.
6 Q. When was the last time you sold marijuana?
7 A. 2003.
8 Q. Had you ever sold marijuana before you met Sean
9 Bucci?
10 A. No, I had not.
11 Q. Have you sold since?
12 A. No.
14 CROSS-EXAMINATION
15 BY MS. BYRNE:
16 Q. Ms. Genduso, you are married now, right?
17 A. Yes, I am.
18 Q. And you are married to a corrections officer,
19 correct?
20 A. Yes, I am.
21 Q. Now, you testified today about what happened with
22 that box of money that was in your car on June 4th.
23 A. Uh-huh.
24 Q. Now, just to be clear, you didn't take that box of
25 money to Eric Carbone on that day, did you?

212
1 A. On that first day?
2 Q. June 4th.
3 A. Well, if you want to call taking it to Eric Carbone
4 technically being at the Northern Grind.
5 Q. Well, I mean, you didn't give it to him on that day,
6 did you?
7 A. No.
8 Q. And you didn't take it to his house that evening and
9 give it to him, did you?
10 A. No.
11 Q. In fact, you didn't give him the box of money until
12 approximately one month later; is that fair to say?
13 A. I wouldn't say "approximate," but to some extent,
14 yes.
15 Q. Well, do you know the exact date if it's not
16 approximate?
17 A. No. This was a long time ago.
18 Q. Correct. So we're talking approximate, then, right?
19 A. Estimated.
20 Q. Estimated.
21 A. Correct.
22 Q. And when you did see him, you didn't bring him the
23 money box -- box of money on one day and then the safes
24 on another day; you brought him the box of money and the
25 safes on the same day, right?

213
1 A. I do believe so, right.
2 Q. And he put them in his house, right?
3 A. Eric Carbone.
4 Q. You saw him put them in his house; is that right?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Okay. And he told you that he was keeping them at
7 his house; is that right?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Now, you testified ultimately at a grand jury in
10 this case, right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. The first time you went to the grand jury you were
13 asked questions by Mr. Levitt; is that right?
14 A. The first time? No.
15 Q. You were asked questions by a different prosecutor?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And at that time you said that you refused to
18 testify on the grounds that you feared you would
19 incriminate yourself, correct?
20 A. Actually, I pled the Fifth every single time they
21 asked me a question.
22 Q. Right. Because -- right. The Fifth Amendment
23 because you were afraid you would incriminate yourself,
24 so you said that you would not testify on the grounds of
25 the Fifth Amendment; is that right?

214
1 A. Correct. I was also seeing Sean at the time, too,
2 so it wasn't just myself I would be incriminating.
3 Q. Well, and then you went and got yourself an
4 attorney, right?
5 A. No, I had the same attorney.
6 Q. Okay. You had an attorney before you went into the
7 grand jury?
8 A. Elliot Weinstein.
9 Q. All right. And when you -- and you went into the
10 grand jury and you pled the Fifth, as you said, and then
11 afterwards you were ordered to come back to the grand
12 jury; is that right?
14 Q. And at that time you had an order which gave you
15 immunity for anything that you said; is that right?
16 A. Yup. That's correct.
17 Q. Okay. And I'm showing you a document. Have you
18 seen that before?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And that is, in fact, the immunity order; is that
21 right?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Okay. And taking a look at the final paragraph, you
24 understand that that means that anything that you say at
25 the grand jury could not be used against you, right?

215
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Unless you committed perjury, right?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Or gave a false statement, right?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And then, of course, you could be prosecuted, right?
7 A. Uh-huh.
8 Q. Now, today you testified that when you took the box
9 of money from Mr. Jefgood, you took it to Attorney
10 Zerola in Boston; is that right?
12 Q. And when you got to Attorney Zerola's apartment, you
13 counted the money, right?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. That's your testimony today --
16 A. That is.
17 Q. -- correct?
18 And when you did testify at the grand jury with that
19 immunity order, you were under oath, right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And you swore to tell the truth, right?
22 A. That's under oath, yup.
23 Q. And at that time --
24 MS. BYRNE: May I approach, your Honor?
25 THE COURT: Yes.

216
1 BY MS. BYRNE:
2 Q. Ms. Genduso, I've just handed you a copy of your
3 grand jury testimony; is that correct?
4 A. I do believe that is.
5 Q. All right. Have you seen that before?
6 A. No, I have not.
7 Q. You testified on July 28th, 2005, right?
8 A. The first time?
9 Q. The second time.
10 A. The second time.
11 Q. The first time you didn't testify, right?
12 A. Right.
13 Q. The second time you did testify?
14 A. Okay.
15 Q. And on the second time, that was July 28, 2005?
16 THE WITNESS: I apologize, your Honor. I
17 thought it was September.
18 BY MS. BYRNE:
19 Q. Okay. September is when you took -- September of
20 '03 is when you refused to testify.
21 A. Right. I got that mixed up.
22 Q. Now, when you did, in fact, testify at the grand
23 jury under oath with that grant of immunity to protect
24 you, you stated on page 38 at the bottom of the page,
25 you were asked --

217
1 "QUESTION: What was in the box?
2 "ANSWER: Money.
3 "QUESTION: How much?
4 "ANSWER: That I -- I never actually sat down
5 and counted it."
6 Did I read that correctly?
7 A. Yes, you did.
8 Q. Now, when you went to the grand jury, you had met
9 with Attorney Weinstein?
10 A. Uh-huh.
11 Q. And you knew -- at the time when you went to the
12 grand jury the second time, did you know that there
13 would be an order for you to testify?
14 A. I assumed so, yes.
15 Q. And you discussed that with your attorney, right?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And you understood that that order meant that you
18 had to testify at the grand jury, right?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. But that anything that you said at the grand jury
21 would not be used against you?
23 THE COURT: If it was true.
24 MS. BYRNE: Right. I was going to get to --
25 that was my next question, your Honor.

218
1 THE WITNESS: Yes.
2 BY MS. BYRNE:
3 Q. And the only way that anything would be used against
4 you from your testimony before the grand jury would be
5 if you lied --
6 A. That is correct.
7 Q. -- right?
8 And you were concerned about lying to the grand
9 jury, right?
10 A. I was.
11 Q. You wanted to make sure that you did not commit
12 perjury. In fact, you asked Mr. Levitt about -- your
13 concerns about committing perjury during your testimony
14 at the grand jury, right?
15 A. I also addressed him about my concerns of safety,
16 too. That's correct.
17 Q. Okay. Well, let me just get the one question I'm
18 asking.
19 A. Sure.
20 Q. You asked Mr. Levitt about your concerns about
21 committing perjury at the grand jury during your
22 testimony, did you not?
23 A. If it's in here, then absolutely, there's no
24 question I did.
25 Q. Do you remember doing that?

219
1 A. I don't recall precisely, but I believe you.
2 Q. Well, why don't we look at it. Turning your
3 attention to page 21. Actually, turning your attention
4 to page 20, line 8, you were asked:
5 "QUESTION: Okay. Now, if you could just orient
6 me in terms of when you first started going together,
7 then we can go six months out.
8 "ANSWER: See, I'm afraid to actually state
9 dates because I don't want to get perjurized [sic] for
10 something that I don't recall correctly," right?
12 Q. And then Mr. Levitt explained to you what perjury
13 was, right? Calling your attention to the bottom of
14 that page.
15 A. Line 17 to 25.
16 Q. And on page 21 Mr. Levitt told you, "It's, you know,
17 if you lie about something that's pertinent to the grand
18 jury, okay?
19 "ANSWER: Okay."
20 So you understood what that meant?
21 A. Yes, I did.
22 Q. So when you testified before the grand jury after
23 understanding that, you told the truth?
24 A. Apparently I didn't.
25 Q. Apparently you didn't?

220
2 Q. So you told -- well, you told the grand jury that
3 you never counted the money, right? Is that right?
5 Q. And you also told the grand jury that the day that
6 Sean Bucci was arrested you gave the money to Carbone.
7 And that's not true either, is it?
8 A. No. But I've had a long time to think about it
9 since that last grand jury appearance.
10 Q. And your memory is better now?
11 A. It's a lot better considering I've been thinking
12 about it for such a long time. There are also places
13 and events that I don't remember.
14 Q. That's the only question before you.
15 A. That's fine.
16 Q. Now, you testified today that you saw large
17 quantities of marijuana at 23 Marshall Street, right?
18 A. Right.
19 Q. And that you helped off-load quantities of marijuana
20 at 23 Marshall street, right?
21 A. No, ma'am. I didn't say I helped off-load it.
22 Q. Well, did you?
23 A. Did I ever off-load it?
24 Q. Uh-huh.
25 A. No.

221
1 Q. You testified that you collected money for
2 marijuana, right?
3 A. Yup.
4 Q. You testified that you distributed marijuana, right?
5 A. Yes, I did.
6 Q. And that you helped break up bales of marijuana,
7 right?
9 Q. And that you sold your own marijuana, right?
10 A. Yup.
11 Q. You testified to all of those things today --
12 A. Yes, I did.
13 Q. -- right?
14 And you're under oath today, right?
15 A. Absolutely.
16 Q. Just like you were at the grand jury --
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. -- right?
19 And by the way, when you did testify at the grand
20 jury, your attorney, Attorney Weinstein, advised you
21 that it was very important for you to tell the truth to
22 the grand jury, did he not?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And you also spoke to another attorney, John
25 Fitzpatrick, right?

222
1 A. When Elliot was away sick, personal leave, yes.
2 Q. Right. Right. He was away because of his son being
3 injured, right?
4 A. Yes. That's correct.
5 Q. Right. So he arranged to have another attorney
6 actually available to you so that you would have someone
7 with you at the grand jury, right?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Okay. And of course the lawyer was not inside the
10 grand jury but was outside the grand jury, right?
12 Q. Available for you to go out and talk to during your
13 testimony, right?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And you met with this attorney prior to taking the
16 stand at the grand jury, right?
17 A. I met him about an hour before I took the stand, so
18 very, very little did I meet him.
19 Q. Right. You met him -- well, as I said, you met with
20 Attorney Weinstein before already?
21 A. Correct.
22 Q. To talk about what was going to happen at the grand
23 jury, right?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And that's when he told you: Just make sure you

223
1 tell the truth and you'll be all set, right?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And then you met with Mr. Fitzpatrick the morning of
4 the testimony, right?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And he told you the same thing: Just tell the truth
7 to the grand jury, right?
9 Q. And of course, as you said, you were concerned about
10 committing perjury. You didn't want to do that, right?
11 A. We just discussed that, yes.
12 Q. I'm just asking you.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Okay? And you, as you said -- now you say you
15 didn't tell the truth to the grand jury, right?
17 Q. So what you said then when you were concerned about
18 committing perjury and had been told the only thing you
19 needed to worry about was to tell the truth, you were
20 asked at the grand jury:
21 "QUESTION: Did you see large amounts of
22 marijuana, or did you see amounts of marijuana?"
23 Page 24, line 6.
24 "ANSWER: Yes.
25 "QUESTION: Did you see amounts of marijuana

224
1 that Bucci was selling as opposed to people were
2 smoking?
3 "ANSWER: As far as selling goes, I would never
4 be present in the room. Just wasn't. It wasn't like --
5 it wasn't allowed, put it that way. It wasn't."
6 A. In the beginning, it wasn't.
7 Q. I'm asking what you said under oath to the grand
8 jury.
9 A. Well, that's correct as far as the beginning.
10 Q. Was that true?
11 A. Absolutely.
12 Q. Now, further down the page you were asked:
13 "QUESTION: I'm asking if you saw drugs that he
14 was selling."
15 And you answered:
16 "ANSWER: Yes.
17 "QUESTION: Okay. How often did you see that
18 during the time period? Really, an approximation here.
19 Are we talking once? Are we talking once a month?
20 Every day?
21 "ANSWER: I really don't know."
22 And line 6 on the next page: "The year 2001?"
23 "ANSWER: The year 2001?
24 "QUESTION: Yes.
25 "ANSWER: I don't recall. At least -- at least

225
1 two times up to -- I don't know. I'm sorry, I can't
2 state -- I can't state exactly."
3 You were asked, "How many items did you see?" Line
4 19.
5 "How many items did you see? Was it one in plastic?
6 Was it more than one?
7 "ANSWER: I don't know."
8 MR. LEVITT: Your Honor, are there questions
9 here or is she just reading the grand jury transcript,
10 because there hasn't been a question?
11 THE COURT: Is there a question?
12 MS. BYRNE: I'll ask her in the form of a
13 question, your Honor.
14 BY MS. BYRNE:
15 Q. You were asked the question, ma'am, "How many items
16 did you see? Was it one in plastic? Was it more than
17 one," correct?
19 Q. And you answered, "I don't know. At least one in
20 plastic, yes," correct?
21 A. Correct.
22 Q. And on the following page, line 7, you were asked:
23 "QUESTION: And at other times is that
24 consistent with what you saw on other occasions,"
25 correct?

226
1 A. That's correct. At least one.
2 Q. And is that correct that that's what you were asked,
3 ma'am?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And you answered "yes," correct?
6 A. That is correct.
7 Q. You were asked:
8 "QUESTION: Is there any time when you saw more
9 than that?"
10 Were you -- were you asked that question, ma'am?
11 A. This is all specific documentation, so I'd agree,
12 yes.
13 Q. Okay. So what you're saying is that if there
14 weren't specific documentation, if it was not in
15 writing, you would not agree with me, ma'am?
16 A. No, I would agree with you. Absolutely. But we're
17 reading something that's not going to be anything
18 different than what I stated prior to this.
19 Q. Well, they could have gotten it wrong, right?
20 A. I doubt it, but okay.
21 Q. You were asked, "Is there any time when you saw more
22 than that," correct?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And you answered, "Possibly. I don't -- I'm just --
25 this is 2001, so you have to understand, this was a long

227
1 time ago," right?
2 A. Yup.
3 Q. And then you were asked at the bottom of the page:
4 "QUESTION: So given that it's an important
5 event to you, tell us what other occasions you saw
6 marijuana in the house," correct?
7 A. Yes.
8 And you answered:
9 "ANSWER: Okay. Given this is an important
10 question, I'd like to go speak to my counsel, if
11 possible. Yes? Thank you," right?
12 A. Yup.
13 Q. And then what happened was, you actually left the
14 grand jury, right, and you went out and talked to the
15 lawyer?
16 A. Which was legal. Yes.
17 Q. And when you went out and spoke to the lawyer, the
18 lawyer told you: Just go in there and tell the truth,
19 right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And so that's what you did, right?
22 A. Uh-huh. Correct.
23 Q. And then you were asked questions about the times
24 that you saw non-personal-use amounts of marijuana,
25 right?

228
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And you were asked:
3 "QUESTION: Do you want to expand on your answer
4 about that?"
5 And you answered:
6 "ANSWER: Like I just told my lawyer --
7 "QUESTION: Well, don't talk --
8 "ANSWER: Well, I'm sorry.
9 "QUESTION: Just tell us."
10 And you said: "Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. As
11 far as you asking me if I've seen more than one, I mean,
12 yes, but at the same time, I literally mean it when I
13 tell you that I do not recall as far as amounts go."
14 Did you not answer that that way?
15 A. I did.
16 Q. You were asked:
17 "QUESTION" --
18 By the way -- strike that.
19 You were asked:
20 "QUESTION: Do you ever recall seeing more than
21 one brick," correct?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And you answered yes, right?
25 Q. And then you were asked, "How many do you recall

229
1 seeing at a time? And you can give a range. You can
2 say more than five, less than ten. You can say 20 to
3 30."
4 Your answer: "I would say -- I mean, between -- I
5 don't know.
6 "QUESTION: Your best estimate, and we
7 understand you're estimating."
8 And you answered ten, right?
10 Q. That's what you said at the grand jury, right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Now, Ms. Genduso, you said between 2002 and two
13 thousand -- well, between 2001 and 2003 you sold
14 marijuana yourself, right?
15 A. I think I said between 2002 and 2003, but yes.
16 Around that --
17 Q. All right. Between 2002 and 2003, which was the
18 time period that you were living with Sean Bucci,
19 correct?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. You moved in in January of 2002. Is that
22 approximately correct?
23 A. No, not approximately correct.
24 Q. All right. Well, we'll get back to that.
25 But between 2002 and 2003 you were living with Sean

230
1 Bucci, right?
2 A. Yup.
3 Q. And you sold marijuana yourself, right?
4 A. Yes, I did.
5 Q. And you say you sold five to ten pounds to somebody
6 named Tim, right?
7 A. At a time.
8 Q. At a time?
9 A. Uh-huh.
10 Q. And you did that five to ten times, right?
11 A. Potentially, yes.
12 Q. Excuse me?
13 A. Potentially, yes. It could have been more and it
14 could have been less. So that's estimated.
15 Q. Approximately five to ten times, right?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. And when you did this, you delivered -- you
18 delivered the marijuana wrapped up to look like gifts,
19 right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. In order to hide it from anyone seeing it, right?
23 Q. Most importantly, the police, right?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And of course you never reported any income from

231
1 this marijuana selling you were doing, did you?
2 A. No.
3 Q. You helped Sean Bucci with his marijuana business,
4 right?
5 A. Yes, I did.
6 Q. You helped him count money, deliver marijuana,
7 right?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Break up bales of marijuana, right?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Helped him bag it, right?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And on the day of Mr. Bucci's arrest, you took
14 possession of a box of money that you knew to be
15 proceeds from marijuana sales, right?
17 Q. And you knew it was -- you knew that's where the
18 money was from, right?
19 A. Yup.
20 Q. You hid it from the police, right?
21 A. Yes, I did.
22 Q. Carefully, right?
23 A. Very.
24 Q. And then you used this money, which you knew was
25 drug proceeds, to live off of, right?

232
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. You used it to go out to dinner, right?
3 A. I even brought his parents out once to dinner.
4 Q. You used it to go out drinking?
5 A. Yeah.
6 Q. You used it to go to the movies, to make your car
7 payments, right?
8 A. Yes, I did.
9 Q. You spent this money that you knew to be drug
10 proceeds on your daily living expenses, right?
12 Q. Ms. Genduso, you understand that you could be
13 indicted in this case as a coconspirator, right?
14 A. Yes, I do.
15 Q. Well, you can't be indicted because you have
16 immunity, right?
18 Q. The only way you can be indicted is if you lie or
19 commit perjury, right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And by the way, there's no question in your mind
22 that you lied at the grand jury, right?
23 A. Not today, though.
24 Q. And have you been charged with perjury?
25 A. No.

233
1 Q. Are you being prosecuted for that?
2 A. No.
3 Q. And you don't expect to be charged with perjury, do
4 you, ma'am?
5 A. Not that I know of.
6 Q. Now, you understand that you could have been charged
7 in this case, right?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And that if you were charged in this case, you could
10 have been facing a ten-year minimum mandatory sentence,
11 correct?
12 A. That's right.
13 Q. You understand that?
14 A. Yup.
15 Q. And now the only way that you're facing prison time
16 is if you lie?
18 Q. And you don't want to go to prison, do you, Leigha?
19 A. I don't think anyone wants to go to prison, ma'am.
20 Q. And you understand that if the prosecutors don't
21 believe you, you could be charged with perjury?
23 Q. You understand that they decide whether or not
24 you're telling the truth, right?
25 A. Yes.

234
1 Q. You've met with the prosecutors to prepare your
2 testimony, right?
3 A. Several times.
4 Q. And in fact, you met with them several times before
5 you were even starting to prepare your testimony, to
6 tell them -- to talk to them, right?
7 A. We've been -- well, I considered it actually
8 preparing the testimony since the first time.
9 Q. So since the first time that you met with the
10 prosecutor you considered that you were preparing
11 testimony against Mr. Bucci; is that right?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Because that's what you understood they wanted from
14 you, right?
15 A. Well, yeah. Correct.
16 Q. Now, you understand that the prosecutor didn't
17 believe your testimony at the grand jury, right?
18 A. Did or didn't? I couldn't hear you.
19 Q. Did not.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And that, in fact, the prosecutor thought that you
22 knew a lot more than you said you knew, right?
24 Q. They didn't believe you when you said you couldn't
25 remember things, right?

235
1 A. I guess not.
2 Q. They didn't believe you when you said that you
3 weren't involved with the marijuana business, right?
4 A. Right.
5 Q. And by the way, you didn't tell the grand jury
6 anything about your having been involved in the
7 marijuana business, did you?
8 A. Did they ask? I don't even recall.
9 Q. I'm asking you if you told the grand jury anything
10 about your being involved in the marijuana business.
11 A. I don't know, ma'am. I'd have to read through this
12 first. It's been a while. I'm sorry.
13 THE COURT: Did you appear before the grand jury
14 once, only, or more than once?
15 THE WITNESS: Twice, your Honor. The first time
16 I pled the Fifth.
17 THE COURT: Right. So the testimony we're
18 talking about is your second appearance?
20 BY MS. BYRNE:
21 Q. Well, after your testimony before the grand jury,
22 you were afraid of being prosecuted for perjury?
23 THE COURT: After the second appearance, you
24 mean?
25 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat that, please?

236
1 BY MS. BYRNE:
2 Q. After your second appearance before the grand jury.
3 A. I never said that.
4 Q. Well, were you concerned having lied to the grand
5 jury?
6 A. Well, I also must state that I was nervous, as much
7 as possibly someone could be nervous during that time,
8 and I basically blocked a lot out.
9 Q. Well, you were pretty nervous when the prosecutors
10 accused you of lying at the grand jury when you met with
11 them, weren't you?
12 A. We didn't really talk about it that much to that
13 extent.
14 Q. You understood that they were prosecuting Mr. Bucci
15 for conspiracy to traffic -- to distribute over a
16 thousand kilograms of marijuana, right? You understood
17 that?
18 A. Yeah, it's been understood for a couple of years.
19 Q. Of course you understood that. You received all the
20 discovery in this case, did you not, from Mr. Bucci?
21 A. What do you mean, "discovery"?
22 Q. In other words, you saw the police reports. You
23 know what the case is about.
24 A. To some extent I saw the police reports.
25 Q. Right.

237
1 A. Not all of them.
2 Q. But you certainly understood that he was -- well,
3 you understood that Mr. Bucci was originally indicted
4 for conspiracy to distribute over a hundred kilograms.
5 You knew that, right?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And that later he was indicted for conspiracy to
8 distribute over 1,000 kilograms. You knew that?
9 A. Actually, I never knew that.
10 Q. You didn't know that?
11 A. I know it now.
12 Q. You understand that the -- you understood that the
13 prosecutor wanted you to tell them that you saw lots of
14 marijuana. You understood that, did you not?
15 A. No, ma'am, they didn't tell me to -- like urge me
16 into saying anything. Sorry.
17 Q. Well, as you said, you understood that they didn't
18 believe your testimony at the grand jury, right? Right?
19 A. Peter Levitt spoke to me once saying, "I don't
20 believe you were fully truthful during your testimony
21 before the grand jury." That was it. That was simply
22 stated.
23 Q. And you got the point, did you not, ma'am?
24 A. Well, I did. Yes.
25 Q. Well, you get the impression they believe you now,

238
1 right?
2 A. I hope so.
3 Q. You testified that, as you said, you had sold
4 marijuana to a guy named Tim, right?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And that was five to ten pounds on five to ten
7 occasions, right?
8 A. Estimated. That's correct.
9 Q. And this is the guy that you wrapped the marijuana
10 as presents when you delivered it, right?
11 A. That's right.
12 Q. And then later you testified -- you testified later
13 that you sold him different marijuana, right?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Now, you told the prosecutors that for the first
16 time on February 6th, right? The last time you met with
17 the prosecutors was the first time you told them that
18 you ever sold commercial grade, as you called it,
19 marijuana, right?
20 A. It could have been -- no, it wasn't the last time.
21 It was one time before that.
22 Q. Right. Because the last time you met with the
23 prosecutors was when you were preparing to testify here
24 today, right?

239
1 Q. So it was the time before that, right?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. It was about -- it was less than two weeks ago,
4 right?
5 A. Or it could have been the time before that,
6 actually. I don't know the accuracy of that.
7 Q. So you're not sure whether it was February 6th or
8 January 16th, is that what --
9 A. I do believe it was on the first time that we
10 actually -- I mean, the second time that we met.
11 Q. And the second time that you met was a couple of
12 weeks ago, right?
13 A. Yes. A couple of weeks ago, maybe? Possibly a
14 month? I'm not sure.
15 Q. And the first time you met was about two weeks
16 before that, right?
17 A. Yup.
18 Q. And when you met the first time, you had a long
19 meeting with the prosecutors also, right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And you told them -- they asked you to tell them
22 everything that you had done, right?
24 Q. And everything that you had seen, right?
25 A. Yes.

240
1 Q. And that was on January 16th, right?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And on that date you told the prosecutor and the
4 agent a different story about what you sold to Tim,
5 right?
6 A. No, ma'am, not a different story. I told them what
7 else I also sold to him. There's a big difference.
8 Q. Well, you didn't tell them that you sold five to ten
9 pounds of commercial-grade marijuana on five to ten
10 occasions, did you, ma'am?
11 A. I don't recall.
12 Q. You don't remember?
13 A. I don't remember which time I did, actually, tell
14 them that.
15 Q. Well, let's just get this straight.
16 A. Sure.
17 Q. You told two different stories about how much
18 marijuana you sold to Tim; is that fair to say?
19 A. No, it's not. Because it was estimated.
20 Q. All right. Well, let's just...
22 Q. I'm handing you a copy of a letter. Could you turn
23 to the second page and read the top paragraph to
24 yourself?
25 THE COURT: Do you have an exhibit number?

241
1 MS. BYRNE: I can mark it for identification, if
2 you want, your Honor.
3 THE COURT: Of course. Nobody would know for
4 the record --
5 MS. BYRNE: I'd just ask that this be marked for
6 identification. Sorry, I don't know what number we're
7 up to.
8 THE CLERK: The last one was 115. So 116?
9 MS. BYRNE: February 6th.
10 THE CLERK: Yes. E was the last one, so this is
11 F.
12 MS. BYRNE: This is F for identification. Thank
13 you.
14 THE COURT: Thank you. I'm sorry, what letter
15 is that?
16 MS. BYRNE: This is F, your Honor. F for
17 identification.
18 (Defendant No. 1's Exhibit F was marked for
19 identification.)
20 BY MS. BYRNE:
21 Q. If you could just read the top paragraph to
22 yourself.
23 A. "Ms. Genduso" --
24 Q. To yourself, ma'am.
25 A. Oh, I'm sorry.

242
1 THE COURT: Thank you. Just to see whether it
2 refreshes your recollection.
3 THE WITNESS: Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.
4 BY MS. BYRNE:
5 Q. Okay? And this was -- if you could look at the
6 first page of that letter, the letter is dated February
7 6, 2007, correct?
9 Q. And --
10 THE COURT: Can you tell us from whom to whom?
11 BY MS. BYRNE:
12 Q. And this is a letter from counsel to Mr. Peter
13 Levitt, right?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And also on the first page of that letter, the
16 second line, it indicates that it's based on a meeting
17 with Leigha Genduso on February 5th, 2007, right?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And that was, as you say, the second-to-last meeting
20 you had with Mr. Levitt, right?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And on that meeting, Ms. Genduso, you told --
23 MR. LEVITT: Your Honor, I'm going to object to
24 the way that Ms. Byrne is doing this. She's basically
25 going to have -- the question is whether this letter

243
1 refreshes her recollection.
2 MS. BYRNE: I'm sorry. I'm happy to ask that if
3 you want, your Honor.
4 MR. LEVITT: And it should be -- someone needs
5 to explain to the witness how that works.
6 MS. BYRNE: Certainly, your Honor.
7 BY MS. BYRNE:
8 Q. Have you read that?
9 A. Have I read the whole thing?
10 Q. Have you read the paragraph?
11 A. On the first page.
12 Q. Right. Does that letter refresh your recollection
13 about what you said to Mr. Levitt on February 6th of
14 2007?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And in fact, what you said was you sold about five
17 to ten pounds of commercial-grade to Tim on about five
18 to ten occasions, right?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And you also told Mr. Levitt that later you sold Tim
21 hydroponic marijuana as well; is that right?
22 A. Yes.
23 MS. BYRNE: Could I have this marked for
24 identification as well?
25 THE COURT: G?

244
1 THE CLERK: Yup.
2 (Defendant's No. 1's Exhibit G was marked for
3 identification.)
4 MS. BYRNE: Thank you.
5 MR. LEVITT: Your Honor, I think Ms. Byrne,
6 before she shows the witness the letter, needs to ask
7 her the question to see if she has a memory, and then
8 show her the letter and see if it refreshes her
9 recollection.
10 MS. BYRNE: Actually, I think she testified that
11 she didn't remember which thing she said at which time,
12 your Honor, but I'm happy to ask her again if she has a
13 memory.
14 THE COURT: Okay. Why don't you do that.
15 THE WITNESS: A memory with regards to what
16 again, please?
17 BY MS. BYRNE:
18 Q. A few weeks earlier on -- prior to that meeting on
19 February 6th --
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. -- February 5th, actually, you met with the
22 prosecutors -- the prosecutor and agent in this case,
23 right?
24 A. January 16th or 12th?
25 Q. I'm just asking you from your own memory right now.

245
1 A. Yes. Yes.
2 Q. Right? And at that time you told them you only ever
3 sold hydroponic marijuana, right?
4 A. What page is that?
5 Q. I'm asking you if you remember what you said.
6 A. No, I don't remember.
7 Q. You don't remember what you told them about whether
8 you sold commercial grade or hydroponic marijuana on
9 February 16th?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Okay. Calling your attention to page 21 of the
12 document which I believe is Exhibit G for
13 identification, the first full paragraph, could you read
14 that to yourself.
16 Q. Does that refresh your recollection about what you
17 said on January 16th about the marijuana you sold to
18 Tim?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And in fact, at that meeting, Ms. Genduso, you said
21 that you sold Tim two to three pounds of hydro on five
22 or six occasions, right?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And there's no mention of five to ten pounds of
25 commercial-grade on five to ten occasions, is there?

246
1 A. No, there isn't.
2 Q. So the first time you told Mr. Levitt or anybody
3 involved in this case that you sold five to ten pounds
4 on five to ten occasions to Tim was on February 5th of
5 2007, right?
6 A. But that was commercial and hydro, so yes.
7 Q. When they asked you how much marijuana did you sell
8 to this guy Tim, you understood that they meant
9 marijuana in general, right?
10 A. Oh, yeah. But they're two different things, though,
11 like apples and oranges.
12 Q. So you just didn't tell them about the regular
13 marijuana that you sold to Tim when you met with them on
14 the 16th; you just didn't mention that, right?
15 A. Right.
16 Q. You started dating Mr. Bucci the summer before you
17 moved in with him; is that right?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And that was in about June; is that right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Correct?
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. You started dating him in 2001, right?
24 A. I said between 2000 and 2001, but yes.
25 Q. And you moved into 23 Marshall Street -- and you

247
1 moved in with him in the winter after you started dating
2 him; is that right?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. You moved into 23 Marshall Street in 2002, right?
5 January? The beginning of 2002; is that right?
6 A. Yes. I don't remember the approximate month, but
7 possibly.
8 Q. And you lived with him during the period of time
9 between 2002 up until he was arrested in 2003, right?
10 A. Yes, I do recall. I thought I lived there from 2001
11 to 2003, but okay.
12 Q. And you -- then you lived in the house alone from
13 June 4th, 2003, until February of 2005; is that right?
14 A. Yes. Well, I'd say December-early January.
15 Q. Of 2004?
16 A. December. Yes. Correct.
17 Q. Mr. Bucci was arrested on June 4th of 2003?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And he was held in custody for a period of time,
20 right?
21 A. Correct.
22 Q. And he was released in May of 2004; is that right?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. And in August of 2004 he started a website called
25 WhosARat.com; is that right?

248
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. By the way, who named that website, ma'am?
3 A. Oh, I did. I said the name as a joke and he stuck
4 with it. That was me.
5 Q. By the way, you testified that you had smoked
6 marijuana over the course of your life, right?
7 A. Very much so, yes.
8 Q. And taken prescription drugs that you didn't have a
9 prescription for, right?
10 A. Yup. With Sean.
11 Q. Did you ever use cocaine?
12 A. No, I did not.
13 Q. Ms. Genduso, you lied to the grand jury about what
14 you did with that box of money. We've established that
15 already, right?
17 Q. And then you lied to the prosecutors about what you
18 did with that box of money, didn't you?
19 A. When?
20 Q. All right. Well, you now say that you took that box
21 of money to Jan Jefgood's house, right?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And after he got nervous, you took it directly to
24 Attorney Zerola's office in -- apartment in Boston,
25 right?

249
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. You drove it there, to that apartment in Boston,
3 right?
4 A. As I recall, yes.
5 Q. Well, do you remember that?
6 A. I'm pretty sure I do, yeah.
7 Q. And when you got there you went inside the
8 apartment?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. With the box of money?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And then you counted it all out. This is what
13 you're testifying to today?
14 A. This is what I'm testifying, correct.
15 Q. And there was $275,000 in there --
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. -- right?
18 And that you left the box of money and two safes at
19 Attorney Zerola's apartment, correct?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And that it stayed there for three or four weeks,
22 right?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Before you picked it up and took it to Eric Carbone,
25 right?

250
1 A. Right.
2 Q. And you testified that Mr. Bucci wanted to hire Mr.
3 Zerola, right?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And that you told Mr. Zerola to take $50,000 from
6 the box, right?
7 A. I said around $50,000, yes.
8 Q. You also told Mr. Zerola to give a second attorney
9 money from the box, right?
11 Q. And that was Attorney Natola, right?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And so you asked Mr. Zerola to take his own money
14 out of the box, right?
15 A. Uh-huh.
16 Q. Which he had in his possession?
17 A. Uh-huh.
18 Q. And you asked him to pay Mr. Natola from the box,
19 right, that he had in his possession, right?
20 A. Right.
21 Q. And you also told Mr. Zerola to give Attorney
22 Brennan money from the money box, right?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Okay. Now, on January 16th, at that same meeting
25 that we were talking about, you told a different story

251
1 about what you did with the money box, right?
2 A. Uh-huh.
3 Q. Did you? Did you tell a different story on the 16th
4 about what happened to the money in the money box?
5 A. Prior to what date?
6 Q. January 16th of 2007 when you sat down to meet with
7 the prosecutors. Not the last meeting before this
8 preparation for court, the one before that.
9 A. Yes, I did.
10 Q. You told a different story?
11 A. I did, because I didn't want to incriminate anyone
12 else.
13 Q. You didn't want to incriminate anyone else?
15 Q. What you told -- and you understood that you -- the
16 one thing that you had to do here was to tell the truth,
17 right?
18 A. Absolutely. Which is what I did the next time I met
19 them.
20 Q. Well, but basically what you're saying is when you
21 met them on January 15th, the letter that was January
22 16th, you lied about what happened to the money in the
23 money box. Is that fair to say, Ms. Genduso?
24 A. Actually, it's more fair to say that I didn't bring
25 up a period of time when the money was at someone else's

252
1 house. But I was always accurate about the other two
2 places that it was at.
3 Q. You left out a significant part of the story; is
4 that fair to say?
5 A. That's more fair to say, correct.
6 Q. What you said on the 16th was that you took the
7 safes and money box to Jefgood's apartment first, right?
8 A. Uh-huh.
9 Q. And then a week later you went to see Mr. Bucci,
10 right? That's what you told them on the 16th, right?
11 A. Like I said, I just left out a big chunk.
12 Q. I'm not asking you what you left out. I'm just
13 asking you questions, and I'd ask you to answer the
14 questions I'm asking.
15 A. That's right. Correct.
16 Q. And then you took the safes and the box of money to
17 Eric Carbone's, right, from Jan Jefgood's house. That's
18 what you told the prosecutors who are trying to
19 investigate their case, right?
20 A. That is what I told them on January 16th.
21 Q. And you told them that you took $50,000 -- you took
22 $50,000 from the box of money to pay Attorney Zerola,
23 right?
25 Q. Nothing about telling him to take $50,000 out of the

253
1 box of money himself, right?
2 A. Right. Because --
3 Q. Nothing about him having possession of that box of
4 money at all, right? You didn't tell them anything
5 about that on the 16th?
6 A. On the 16th. You are correct.
7 Q. You told the prosecutors a story about putting money
8 in a paper bag and meeting Attorney Zerola at a sub shop
9 in Lynn, right?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And that's what you told them?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Right? And you made up the story.
14 A. Well, not technically.
15 Q. Well, you just said that you just left out a few --
16 excuse me, ma'am.
17 You just said that you just left out a few things,
18 right?
19 A. Right.
20 Q. But in fact, you actually made up a few things, too,
21 didn't you?
22 A. Well, what I was just about to say is that I did
23 meet him at a sub shop in Lynn prior to that.
24 Q. With a bag full of $50,000?
25 A. No. No. But with a bag full of money that he gave

254
1 me.
2 Q. Oh, with a bag of money that he gave you?
3 A. It was actually $5,000. Because he still had
4 obtained the money still --
5 Q. Well, this is the first time anybody's heard this.
6 So what are you saying?
7 A. Well, it's not the first time, technically, because
8 I did talk about the sub shop and us meeting before,
9 so...
10 Q. You talked about meeting -- let's just be clear
11 here.
12 A. Sure.
13 Q. You talked about going to a -- taking $50,000 in
14 cash out of the money box yourself?
15 A. That part was a lie; correct.
16 Q. Thank you.
17 And putting the $50,000 into a paper bag. That's
18 what you told the prosecutor and the agent here?
19 A. Yeah.
20 Q. That didn't happen, did it?
21 A. No, it did not.
22 Q. And you told them that you then traveled to a sub
23 shop in Lynn with the bag of $50,000?
24 A. Right.
25 Q. Which did not happen, did it?

255
1 A. Right.
2 Q. And gave that money to Attorney Zerola, $50,000
3 cash, that you had taken out of the box of money. And
4 that did not happen, did it, ma'am?
5 A. Nope, it didn't.
6 Q. That's the story that you told Mr. Levitt and Agent
7 Willoughby, right?
8 A. Right.
9 Q. And then you went on to tell them that one or two
10 months later again you went and got $25,000 from the box
11 of money, right? You told them more on this January
12 16th meeting about giving money to Attorney Natola,
13 right?
14 A. Right.
15 Q. You told them that one or two months later you got
16 another $25,000 from the money box, took it out
17 yourself, correct?
18 A. Was it one or two months later or was it one or two
19 weeks?
20 Q. Well --
21 A. The accuracy of that is a big difference.
22 Q. Was it one or two months later or was it one or two
23 weeks?
24 A. I don't know.
25 Q. Well, you made up the story. I have no idea.

256
1 A. I just thought documentation might help, that's all.
2 Q. I'm handing you the document numbered Exhibit G for
3 identification. Calling your attention to page 17, the
4 first full paragraph. Could you read that, please,
5 ma'am, to yourself.
7 Q. Right.
8 A. Where's the one to two months?
9 Q. "Ms. Genduso advised that a month or two later" --
10 A. Oh, okay. I see that.
11 Q. Are you with me?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. So that's actually the story you made up, a month or
14 two later, right?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And now you don't know because you really -- it
17 could have been a week or two later because it actually
18 never happened at all that you took the money and met
19 with Attorney Natola, right?
20 A. That's right.
21 Q. Ms. Genduso, you know that Mr. Bucci dee-jayed --
22 was a disk-jockey at a club called Bay Bridge, right?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And that he had an arrangement with the owner that
25 he would pay for everyone's drinks, right?

257
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And then the owner would pay him back, correct?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. Ms. Genduso, your understanding was that Mr.
5 Belmonte was the only supplier to Mr. Bucci; is that
6 right?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. About six months after Mr. Bucci was arrested, Mr.
9 Belmonte came to see you where you were working at
10 Centerfolds, right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. You worked at a club called Centerfolds?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. You worked as a bartender; is that right?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And Mr. Belmonte came in to see you two or three
17 times while you were working there, right?
19 Q. And when he came in, he was paying for drinks with
20 hundred dollar bills; is that right?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. You noticed that because that's unusual to see,
23 people flashing around hundred dollar bills, right?
24 A. Especially after they got arrested, yeah.
25 Q. Especially after they've been arrested.

258
1 During the period of time that you lived with Mr.
2 Bucci, you would -- you testified you would deposit cash
3 in the amount of $9,000, right?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And that was -- that's the amount that it was,
6 correct?
7 A. Sometimes a little less. It wasn't always $9,000 on
8 the dot.
9 Q. And you deposited -- but it was often $9,000, wasn't
10 it?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. You deposited it into Mr. Bucci's mother's SIS
13 Family bank account, correct?
14 A. In Middleton, Mass.
15 Q. It was Ms. -- well, you told the government, did you
16 not --
17 A. Yes. Yes.
18 Q. -- that it was Mr. Bucci's mother's SIS Family bank
19 account?
20 A. Right. I know the name of the bank changed, so
21 that's where it kind of got complicated.
22 Q. And also, while you were living with Mr. Bucci you
23 deposited cash into that bank account -- well, you told
24 them that you did it on over 20 occasions, right?
25 A. Yes. Estimated 20 occasions.

259
1 Q. And that was in increments of 5,000 to $9,000,
2 right?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. While you lived at 23 Marshall Street, Sean Bucci
5 had roommates, right?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Chris Bleicher lived there?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Jay Carnes?
10 A. Yup.
11 Q. Eric Remens?
12 A. Yup.
13 Q. Right? Darren Martin?
14 A. Warren Sullivan.
15 Q. Somebody named Warren Sullivan, nicknamed Sully?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And those people who were living there were paying
18 rent, correct?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Paying rent to Mr. Bucci, right?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. By the way, you never had a combination for those
23 two safes, did you?
24 A. No, I did not.
25 Q. And you never opened those safes?

260
1 A. No.
2 Q. You never saw them opened?
3 A. No.
4 MS. BYRNE: May I have just a moment, your
5 Honor?
7 MS. BYRNE: Nothing further, your Honor.
8 MR. SINSHEIMER: I can if you want, your Honor.
9 THE COURT: Yes.
10 MR. SINSHEIMER: I think people are tired, but
11 I'm happy to proceed if you want me to.
12 THE COURT: Well, let me speak to you --
13 THE WITNESS: Your Honor, I don't know if I
14 could come tomorrow.
15 THE COURT: -- and then we'll take the
16 temperature of the situation and I'll let you know.
18 the jury:)
19 THE COURT: Do you have anything significant?
20 MR. SINSHEIMER: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
21 THE COURT: I see. How long do you estimate? A
22 half-hour?
23 MR. SINSHEIMER: Yeah, in that league. I mean,
24 I don't mean all afternoon.
25 THE COURT: Right. And you have a little more?

261
1 MR. LEVITT: A little bit.
2 THE COURT: What else have we got for tomorrow?
3 MR. LEVITT: We've got the tax guy who should be
4 half an hour, max, I would say.
5 THE COURT: Well, do you think we'll be finished
6 by noon tomorrow?
7 MR. LEVITT: Yes, with the government's case.
8 THE COURT: Okay.
9 MR. SINNIS: And probably the defense case too.
10 THE COURT: I'm assuming that means everything?
11 MR. SINSHEIMER: No. No, we have at least two
12 witnesses.
13 THE COURT: You do?
14 MR. SINSHEIMER: Yes.
15 THE COURT: It doesn't sound like we could
16 prepare the charge. All right, I'll tell everybody
17 we'll certainly be going over to Monday.
18 MR. LEVITT: You already told them that.
19 MR. SINSHEIMER: It's up to you. I'll start now
20 if you want me to.
21 THE COURT: No, I think everybody's had a pretty
22 heavy day.
24 (In open court:)
25 THE COURT: Well, we're making good progress.

262
1 The government tells me that their case will probably be
2 finished by noon tomorrow, and then there will be some
3 defense witnesses, so obviously the case will be going
4 over at least until Monday, I hope only until Monday. I
5 will have to have some time free to prepare the charge
6 on the case which can be done in a reasonable amount of
7 time, but it does take some time and it can't be done
8 until it's all over and I know exactly what I have to
9 tell you.
10 So that's it. And we'll resume tomorrow morning
11 at 9:15. Thank you. And you're a good, loyal bunch and
12 we appreciate it. You're free to leave.
14 (Jury out at 4:07 p.m.)
15 THE COURT: Good night.
16 MR. SINNIS: Good night, your Honor.
17 MR. LEVITT: Good night, your Honor.
18 MR. SINSHEIMER: Good night, your Honor.
19 (The proceedings adjourned at 4:07 p.m.)
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263
1 C E R T I F I C A T E
3 I, Marcia G. Patrisso, RPR, CRR, Official
4 Reporter of the United States District Court, do hereby
5 certify that the foregoing transcript constitutes, to
6 the best of my skill and ability, a true and accurate
7 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in the matter
8 of Criminal Action No. 03-10220-MEL, United States of
9 America v. Sean Bucci, et al.
10
11
MARCIA G. PATRISSO, RPR, CRR
12 Official Court Reporter
13
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2007-02-22 Genduso Testimony 01

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Case 1:03-cr-10220-NMG Document 432 Filed 02/21/08 Page 1 of 263

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

Criminal Action No. 03-10220-MEL

BEFORE: The Honorable Morris E. Lasker,

John J. Moakley United States Courthouse

Marcia G. Patrisso, RPR, CRR

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2 UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE

6 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

9 FEDERAL DEFENDER'S OFFICE

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4 WITNESSES FOR THE

15 No. 82 Court order 119

23 Exhibit E T-shirt 99 100

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1 (The following proceedings were held in open

2 court before the Honorable Morris E. Lasker, United

3 States District Senior Judge, United States District

4 Court, District of Massachusetts, at the John J. Moakley

5 United States Courthouse, One Courthouse Way, Boston,

6 Massachusetts, on February 22, 2007.

7 The defendants, Sean Bucci and Catherine Bucci,

8 are present with counsel. Assistant U.S. Attorneys

9 Peter K. Levitt and John P. McAdams are present.)

10 THE CLERK: All rise.

11 THE COURT: Good morning, everyone.

12 VOICES: Good morning, your Honor.

13 THE COURT: Please be seated. I've come in

14 before the jury because I understand the elder Mr. Bucci

15 is here, and I'm ready to proceed with him.

16 Mr. Bucci, sir, I understand that it's possible

17 that you may take the stand as a witness in this case

19 MR. WILLIAM BUCCI: Correct.

20 THE COURT: And I want to be sure that you

21 understand what your legal rights are. I also want you

22 to understand, although I assume you do, that any person

23 who testifies falsely subjects himself to the

24 possibility of prosecution and imprisonment on perjury

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1 MR. WILLIAM BUCCI: Oh, I understand that.

2 THE COURT: Are you aware of that?

3 MR. WILLIAM BUCCI: Right.

4 THE COURT: And in that connection, if you wish

5 me to appoint counsel to advise you as to how to proceed

6 here -- and I'm not suggesting that any testimony of

7 yours won't be correct; you may want to clear it with

8 someone -- I'm prepared to do that. It's entirely up to

10 MR. WILLIAM BUCCI: I don't think it's

12 THE COURT: Is anybody else asking me to do

14 MR. LEVITT: Yes, your Honor. The issue is not

15 simply that he could be liable -- could be subject to

16 prosecution for perjury. Mr. Bucci is named in the

17 indictment. It is alleged that he committed criminal

18 conduct in the indictment; therefore --

19 THE COURT: Can you hear this, Mr. Bucci?

20 MR. WILLIAM BUCCI: Yes, I can.

21 MR. LEVITT: Therefore, he has direct

22 exposure -- not just for perjury, but direct exposure --

23 for criminal conduct as alleged in the indictment. It

24 is this issue specifically that we ask the Court to

25 advise Mr. Bucci specifically as to his rights under the

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2 THE COURT: What counsel has said is that not