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Scribd Puts User Docs Behind A Paywall Without Them

Realizing It
from the totally-not-cool dept
Last year, I wrote about some issues I had with the way Scribd tried to avoid liability by suggesting
(Mis)Uses of that public domain documents couldn't be hosted on the site or that fair use was not allowed. To
Technology Advertisement
the company's credit, it responded quickly and fixed the situation, but soon after that I switched
by Mike Masnick Report this ad|Hide Techdirt ads
to (mostly) using Docstoc to host documents. Doctstoc has its own problems as well, but for the
Mon, Sep 20th 2010
6:28pm most part has worked well for me. Still, in my experience Scribd is still quite popular among folks Essential Reading
-- especially for uploading and hosting legal documents. Apparently, the company recently made
Filed Under: some quiet changes and it's seriously pissed off law professor Eric Goldman, who has relied on Hot Topics
eric goldman, the site for quite some time.
paywall, user 5.7 Federal Court Strips Immunity From
notification
Sheriff Who Tried To Silence A Critic
Companies: The key problem? Without clear notification, it took "older" (and older is left undefined)
scribd
By Having Him Arrested
documents and put them behind a paywall. As Goldman notes, the whole reason he used Scribd
was to make the documents available, and it was quite a shock to suddenly find them behind a 5.2 Kickass Torrents Creator Can't Get
Permalink.
paywall: Criminal Case Tossed Out
Short link.
Scribd's paywall stunt instantly put Scribd on my shitlist because it vitiates the 5.2 US Senators Unveil Their Attempt To
reason I chose to use Scribd in the first place. I don't know that they ever promised Secure The Internet Of Very Broken
Things
me perpetual free access to the documents I post, but their value proposition
always has been open access to the documents--freely shared with everyone and
indexed in the search engines. The paywall destroys that value proposition. They've New To Techdirt?
taken the documents that I wanted to freely share with the public (many of them Explore some core concepts:
public documents like court rulings and filings) and made them inaccessible. If my
How Being More Open, Human And
readers can't freely get the documents I wanted to share with them, then what's the
Awesome Can Save Anyone Worried About
point of using Scribd in the first place??? Making Money In Entertainment
I also feel like Scribd used me. With their implicit promise of open access, they got Saying You Can't Compete With Free Is
me to share a lot of high-interest documents and generate lots of link love, then Saying You Can't Compete Period
they flipped the default (from free to paywall) as part of a cash grab. I could check Perhaps It's Not The Entertainment
out of Scribd, but then I would break a lot of links and it would take a lot of time. Industry's Business Model That's Outdated
So now I feel trapped. It's a terrible feeling.
read all
Goldman is looking at other options, including Docstoc and Rapidshare. Another one worth
Techdirt Deals
checking out could be Slideshare, or even potentially Google Docs. However, all this has me
thinking again about the wisdom of relying on third parties for such things (even though I do it Report this ad|Hide Techdirt ads
myself). I do like the ability to display PDF documents, such as legal filings, embedded within a Techdirt Insider Chat
post, but I'm wondering if there are any simple solutions for setting up that sort of thing on your
own server. Anyone know of any? Ninja: Can I mark this comment funny?
Russia Had Banned VPNs or HAS banned?
49 Comments | Leave a Comment I wonder what happens if you make it so you
actually don't know your passwrd for your
accounbts?
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That One Guy: The ACLU filed an amicus brief in
Techdirt is facing a First Amendment fight for its life the Murray vs Oliver case and even only a few
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https://youtu.be/Or0sfrz93O4
Ninja: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08
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Reader Comments
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J.D., 20 Sep 2010 @ 6:48pm
Scribd - Seems Obvious
There are a lot of seemingly smart people doing dumb things. Do people really believe that they own their own
information when they willingly and freely give it to somebody else that they have no control over? Does this really make
sense to anybody?
[reply to this|link to this|view in chronology]
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
David (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:09pm
A suggestion.
I don't know of any simple solution myself, but I suspect that the folks at Super User likely would, if you ask them.
Jon Renaut (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:10pm
A lot of room in that space
I'm not sure why the Wordpress model isn't more widely used. You essentially have three options - free and limited
hosted at wordpress.com, paid and supported hosted at wordpress.com, or free and whatever you want hosted yourself.
Document hosting or nearly any sort of web application could function the same way. With the cost of cloud storage
dropping daily, it seems like someone should be able to make this model work for tons of useful things, like embeddable
PDF hosting.
I'm currently accepting venture capital to get right on this.

Yogi, 20 Sep 2010 @ 9:15pm
Re: A lot of room in that space
I agree - what's the big deal in setting up a site? hosting costs are very low, set up is easy, Google crawls everything
what else do you need? Wordpress is a good solution.
Karl (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:16pm
Know of any?
If you don't mind using Flash, then one option is to go with FlexPaper. It's exactly what you want, but though it claims to
be "GPL v3," it's really not (you have to display their logo even on modified versions, and you can't use it for free on a
commercial site). Might be worth the $70, though.
There's also SWFTools, which includes PDF2SWF, and is completely open source. However, this generates a distinct .swf
file for each PDF, so I don't know if it's the right solution.
If you don't want Flash and your site is uses PHP, you might be able to hack something together using Samuraj Data's
online coverter and embedding the HTML in an iframe.
There's also CynergyPDF, but it's only for Joomla-powered websites.

Mike Masnick (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 12:58am
Re: Know of any?
Aha. That's a very useful list. Thanks, Karl.
FlexPaper does look nice. I'll explore and see.

Sean T Henry (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 6:36am
Re: Re: Know of any?
Check out pdf2html http://pdftohtml.sourceforge.net/

Mat, 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:22pm
2 de 8 08/08/2017 14:46
Have you thought of the idea of PAYING people to host your documents so you can make them available for free?
You put your documents in the cloud for free then they have no value and you can't really get upset if the people you
gave them to choose to do things with them that you don't like.
You don't get stuff for free - and if you're dumb enough to think that you do then you deserve everything you get.
Apparently our "law professor" shouldn't really be trusted to make adult decisions.
Anonymous Coward, 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:38pm
Re:
Quick, stop breathing. You haven't paid the required Oxygen Fee.
DS, 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:58pm
Re: Re:
You must crack yourself up when people pay for oxygen, or when you see people paying for water.. because after
all, rain is free, amirite?
Chris in Utah (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 8:21pm
Re: Re: Re:
not anymore
http://www.infowars.com/collecting-rainwater-now-illegal-in-many-states-as-big-government-claims
-ownership-over-our-water/
DS, 21 Sep 2010 @ 5:32am
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Ah, it's on Infowars, so it must be true.
Just like how 9/11 was an inside job,

Obama is a secret muslim that wasn't born in Hawaii
The US dollar is going away for a new North American "Amero"
etc...
Karl (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 6:42am
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Ah, it's on Infowars, so it must be true.
Or, you could just go to the sources linked in the article, like this report from Channel 5 News.
Now, Inforwars' reaction is a bit histrionic, but it's based on truth. (Unlike a lot of other stuff on there.)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Just noting that the linked article on collecting water being illegal is true.
SUNWARD (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:36pm
web hosting is now cheap. Host the files yourself and you also get to keep control of it. No more problems with
suppliers. And it adds to the search ranking of your own site.
testcore (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:36pm
Off-topic a bit, but...
Anyone else notice the quiet disappearance of their TechDirt Crystal Ball? Mine disappeared after the weekend, TD CS
hasn't responded to my inquery, seems a bit ironic...
3 de 8 08/08/2017 14:46
BearGriz72 (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:57pm
Re: Off-topic a bit, but...
Mine works....
abc gum, 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:43pm
So, the cloud has lost its silver lining

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 8:48pm
Re: FTP meets my needs.
7) Your ISP deems this 'providing a service' and shuts you down.
Re: FTP meets my needs.
If its a university they provide hosting for you so:

1.) Post doc
2.) students go to the address and DL it
MPAA Shill, 20 Sep 2010 @ 8:13pm
Here's the answer... You can thank me later.
Eric,
I have a breakthrough idea for you. You're really going to like this one. Have you considered producing them on DVDs and
mailing them to your customers?
Dan, 20 Sep 2010 @ 8:13pm
Re: Karl
I would recommend FlexPaper too, sure you have to pay to get rid of the logo if you're using it for commercial purposes
but thats fair enough, gotta give them some cred for building a good viewer
http://flexpaper.devaldi.com
Karl (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 9:00pm
Re: Re: Karl
My issue with FlexPaper isn't with the product, which actually looks very good (and worth the $70 that Mike would
have to pay).
The issue is that it's supposedly GPL, even though it's not. If you look at the FSF's Categories of free and nonfree
software page, it would actually be what used to be called "semifree software," and is now just called "proprietary
software."
Still, that's an issue for the FSF to deal with, not us.
Dan, 20 Sep 2010 @ 9:08pm
Re: Re: Re: Karl
I don't think they're violating the GPL3 license, I have seen others do the same thing, like FlowPlayer for example:
http://flowplayer.org/download/index.html
The GPLv3 allows this and the FSF actually does too;
http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#HeardOtherLicense
Re: Re: Re: Re: Karl
4 de 8 08/08/2017 14:46
Yes, but unlike FlexPaper, Flowplayer allows commercial use, which is a requirement of the GPL. From their
FAQ:
I'd like to license my code under the GPL, but I'd also like to make it clear that it can't be used
for military and/or commercial uses. Can I do this?
No, because those two goals contradict each other. The GNU GPL is designed specifically to
prevent the addition of further restrictions. GPLv3 allows a very limited set of them, in section
7, but any other added restriction can be removed by the user.
(Emphasis mine.)
But I guess you're right about the requirement that the logo stay in place. You learn something new every day, I
guess.
We're probably just picking nits at this point. FlexPaper seems like a good program, so even if it was
proprietary, it would be worth using IMHO.
Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2010 @ 7:45am
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Karl
No, it allows commercial use. Read what the site says.
"This is the appropriate option if you are creating a commercial website and you are not prepared to
distribute and share the source code of your application under the GPL."
http://flexpaper.devaldi.com/license.htm
You can use it for commercial use but you must then release it under the GPL-V3. If you want a different
license that allows you to use it for commercial use and keep what you made a secret then you must buy
that different license.
Same thing if you want a license that allows you to bundle it with proprietary software.
"This is the appropriate license to use if you intend to bundle or ship FlexPaper as part of a product."
It's released under the GPl-V3, you can do whatever yo want with that provided you maintain the license
because the license requires that you do so. If you want a different license, if you want a license that allows
you to do something without maintaining the Gpl-V3 license, then you must pay.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Karl
Aha. So the commercial license is only required, if:
1. You are using it on a commercial site;

2. You modify the program; and
3. You do not release these modifications under the GPL.
Correct?
It seems someone like Mike wouldn't have to pay for a commercial license, then?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Karl
You are right.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Karl
Ah, I must've misread the license terms the first time round.
It sounds like we have a winner, then. Hop to it, Masnick!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Karl
The logo can always be freely removed and redistributed under the GPL license (but then you must give it a
different name so that people know it's a mod). I see no good reason to do it but a copy under that license can
be.
5 de 8 08/08/2017 14:46
Maybe the infringement (both patent and copyright) legal expenses makes it not plausible to do something like this for
free?
sd, 20 Sep 2010 @ 9:12pm
embed
Maybe there is a way to put it on Google Books?
"Can Authors and Publishers distribute their works under the settlement for free, under a Creative Commons license or
otherwise?
Yes. Rightsholders are free to set any price for their work including the ability to distribute their work free of charge. If
you are interested in distributing your work for free, including under a Creative Commons license, then you should claim
your Book on the Claim Form and, on the Manage Your Books page, fill in the box asking you to specify your sale
price for the book at zero. In the future, the Claim Form will also provide an option for you to offer your Book under
a Creative Commons license, and you should check the Claim Form periodically for that option to appear. The Registry
will inform Google of your request, and Google will include information on its web site so that end users are aware of
the licensing terms chosen by you. Rightsholders are also free to authorize Google directly to distribute their book
through a Creative Commons license."
http://www.googlebooksettlement.com/help/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=118704#q43f
Chunky Vomit, 21 Sep 2010 @ 2:59am
I guess there is something of a Catch 22 here. After all, he did put the documents on servers that don't belong to him.
I wonder: is there a reason why Google Docs isn't an option here? I realize that the service has its limitations, but I have
had great luck with sharing documents on that service.
I wonder if they index documents open to the entire web?

Spam scribd, 21 Sep 2010 @ 5:27am
not really paywall
it's not really a 100% paywall, you get free access if you upload a document back.
any document works, really...

including any pdf that says only "scribd sucks" :D
try it, scribd just opened the flood gates for a whoop-ass of document spam :p
Rick Powell, 21 Sep 2010 @ 5:52am
Embedding Google Docs in WordPress
If you're using WordPress, there's at least one plugin that allows embedding of both public and private documents:
http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/inline-google-docs/ It works pretty well. Of course, then you'd have to trust
Google.
Coises (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 7:51am
OBJECT tag?
I do like the ability to display PDF documents, such as legal filings, embedded within a post, but I'm wondering if there
are any simple solutions for setting up that sort of thing on your own server. Anyone know of any?
Does anything prevent you from storing the files on your own server and using an OBJECT tag in your posts?
This page has instructions for using the OBJECT tag to embed a PDF.
The link on that page to the explanation of PDF Open Parameters is stale, but here is a PDF that explains PDF Open
Parameters.
Re: OBJECT tag?
6 de 8 08/08/2017 14:46
Does anything prevent you from storing the files on your own server and using an OBJECT tag in your posts?
The fact that users must have the Acrobat plugin installed. Naturally, this causes browser incompatibility issues. See
the "Compatibility" section of the PDFObject guide.
Incidentally, PDFObject seems like it would be useful if you want to go this route, as it gets around most browser
limitations using JavaScript.
But I should note that I have Acrobat installed, and I can't view the PDF in my browser (Chrome), even using
PDFObject.
There's also one other, possibly major, drawback: No search engine will index anything in an OBJECT tag. Of course,
that applies to Flash as well. If that's a worry, you'd have to convert the PDF into HTML before displaying it.
mariush (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 11:01am
Re: Re: OBJECT tag?
Lots of people disable Adobe Acrobat from automatically opening documents in the page because of all the
vulnerabilities and critical bugs it has.
Plus, it loads very slow and would annoy users if you embed 10 pdf files on a single page.
Flash is more reasonable as I can just use the Flashblock extension for Firefox to block all flash on the page and, if
I'm interested in seeing the PDF file, I can just click on the flash icon for that object and unblock it without
reloading the page, and I can then see it loading in the Flash object on the page.
weneedhelp (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 7:56am
shree
weneedhelp (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 7:57am
woops
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/291813/best-way-to-embed-pdf-in-html
I am quite disappointed that Mr. Goldman cast aside professional decorum and engaged in a public rant that ill serves his
position as a member of academia.
Now that he has put emotion before reason, perhaps he will realize that reversing the two and dealing directly with the
site will yield the results he wants.
Re:
Yes, he should just be vaguely arrogant and elitist, like a certain anonymous lawyer.
You can host the documents yourself, but use an external viewer application in an iframe to embed them. Google
provides a viewer and so does Zoho.
Google viewer: https://docs.google.com/viewer

Zoho viewer: http://viewer.zoho.com/home.do
It might be worthwhile to include a direct dl link to the document if possible as a backup.

Yes just host the documents yourself, then you have control over them.
Rod, 3 Oct 2010 @ 11:51pm
Scribd Alternative
Use http://www.notelog.com/ if you're looking to post and share your docs. If your used to using scribd this is the best
alternative because your technically still using scbrid on this site. The site is academic based, but anyone can create an
account outside of academics by creating an expert account. It's absolutely free...
7 de 8 08/08/2017 14:46
Eric, 16 Apr 2013 @ 6:59pm
idea
p2p filesharing programs. There are a couple of scribd alternatives out there.
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J.D., 20 Sep 2010 @ 6:48pm

Scribd - Seems Obvious

David (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:09pm

Jon Renaut (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:10pm

A lot of room in that space

I'm currently accepting venture capital to get right on this.

Yogi, 20 Sep 2010 @ 9:15pm

Re: A lot of room in that space

Karl (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:16pm

There's also CynergyPDF, but it's only for Joomla-powered websites.

Mike Masnick (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 12:58am

Re: Know of any?

Aha. That's a very useful list. Thanks, Karl.

FlexPaper does look nice. I'll explore and see.

Sean T Henry (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 6:36am

Re: Re: Know of any?

Check out pdf2html http://pdftohtml.sourceforge.net/

Mat, 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:22pm

Anonymous Coward, 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:38pm

DS, 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:58pm

Chris in Utah (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 8:21pm

Re: Re: Re:

DS, 21 Sep 2010 @ 5:32am

Re: Re: Re: Re:

Ah, it's on Infowars, so it must be true.

Just like how 9/11 was an inside job,

Karl (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 6:42am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

Ah, it's on Infowars, so it must be true.

Sean T Henry (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 6:43am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

SUNWARD (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:36pm

testcore (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:36pm

Off-topic a bit, but...

BearGriz72 (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:57pm

Re: Off-topic a bit, but...

abc gum, 20 Sep 2010 @ 7:43pm

So, the cloud has lost its silver lining

ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 8:48pm

Re: FTP meets my needs.

Sean T Henry (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 6:52am

Re: FTP meets my needs.

If its a university they provide hosting for you so:

MPAA Shill, 20 Sep 2010 @ 8:13pm

Here's the answer... You can thank me later.

Dan, 20 Sep 2010 @ 8:13pm

Karl (profile), 20 Sep 2010 @ 9:00pm

Re: Re: Karl

Dan, 20 Sep 2010 @ 9:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Karl

Karl (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 7:10am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Karl

Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2010 @ 7:45am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Karl

No, it allows commercial use. Read what the site says.

Karl (profile), 21 Sep 2010 @ 8:05am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Karl