Transcript of David Schwartz and Evan

Chandler Taped Conversation

SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES
DAVID SCHWARTZ, AN INDIVIDUAL, )
PLAINTIFF, ) CASE NO.
VS. ) SC
EVAN CHANDLER, AN INDIVIDUAL, AND )
DOES THROUGH , INCLUSIVE, )
DEFENDANTS. )
TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO CASSETTE MARKED
EXHIBIT NO.
D. SCHWARTZ AND E. CHANDLER
FILE NO. TPA.MK
CONVERSATION
between Dave Schwartz and Evan Chandler:
MR. CHANDLER: discuss why it might be harmful. Suppose Im right? I mean if Michael loves
[tape irregularity] Lisa at least want to hear my opinion about why whats going on could be
potentially harmful? If you love somebody, you dont want them to get hurt.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you want to talk it in front of Jordy, about that?
MR. CHANDLER: Huh?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you want to talk about that in front of Jordy?
MR. CHANDLER: Oh, yeah, absolutely. He has to be there.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: He has to be there, and one of the reasons that he has to be there is because hes
always gonna remember it. Somebody has to be the theres gotta be some one person that later
on in life he can look back on and kind of pattern himself after someone or have some structure for
his own existence, based on hell look at me, and hell say, Yeah. He was honest, he had
integrity, he had respect. I could trust him. He never lied to me, all that kind of stuff. He may hate
me now. He may not be able to articulate all of those things in his own head right now, but when he
sees it, itll be in his head, and when hes old enough there will be those things that will be
important to him. Hopefully Ill be able to portray those things to him, because I think theyre
important.
I also think its incrediblimportant to have somebody else in your life that really loves you and you
really love them because if youre [tape irregularity] happy. Ive never seen a single solo, isolated
human being who was truly happy
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and thats whats going to happen to Jordy. I think thats Junes situation.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: June has nobody. You tell me who June has. You tell me who June has who
really loves her, who she really loves back, you cant think of one person.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, I can.
MR. CHANDLER: Who?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Gloria.
MR. CHANDLER: Gloria.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Really.
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible.)
MR. SCHWARTZ: Gloria, Nadine or Florence. Shes pretty close with her friends.
MR. CHANDLER: Nah, shes
MR. SCHWARTZ: Shes wait.
MR. CHANDLER: She believes that
MR. SCHWARTZ: Shes close with you.
MR. CHANDLER: four or five cups of caffeine in the morning and gets on the phone and yaps
(inaudible) all day, you commiserate about their miseries
MR. SCHWARTZ: But, you know, heres the whole thing. We cant, you know, I cant put her down
that all shes doing is hanging out. Its not so horrible.
MR. CHANDLER: That what?
MR. SCHWARTZ: That, you know, I mean, shes into hanging out.
MR. CHANDLER: Hanging out is okay.
MR. SCHWARTZ: I know. Shes
MR. CHANDLER: Hanging outs kind of a benign thing. Shes not hanging out anymore. When she
stopped hanging out
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and became actively destructive in Jordys life is when I stepped in and
when I decided I have to do something about it. I tried to talk to her about it, Dave, on several
occasions.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, we know shes hard to talk to.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, if you could if you could yes. I mean, thats unquestionable. She is
impossible to talk to. And Ive never really I mean, Ive gotten angry with her many times and
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: [tape irregularity] long as youve stepped in
MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
MR. CHANDLER: the issue has never involved potentially harming Jordy for the rest of his life

MR. SCHWARTZ: [Tape irregularity.]

MR. CHANDLER: issues over Jordy before that Ive backed down
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: because you asked me to or whatever the reason was
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and Ive never been Ive never been that set on pursuing it until now
because I truly believe this will damage him for the rest of his life. And she will not and Ive told
her that, and Ive tried to talk to her about that
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and shes not willing to talk to me about it.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: She doesnt even want to hear what might be harming him.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: She doesnt want to even know she doesnt want to hear any words.
MR. SCHWARTZ: What if
MR. CHANDLER: Get out of my face. Dont even mention that. Thats not an issue for her. I
mean, what kind of person is that? If I stopped taking that personally.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, we all have different ways of coping.
MR. CHANDLER: You see, as an adult, copings no excuse. Thats like driving drunk and saying,
Im sorry, but I didnt realize there was a law against driving drunk and you just ran on the
sidewalk. The fact is youre a responsible adult. Youre supposed to have some sense and judgment,
and thats how its going to go down.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. How about if you, June and I get together?
MR. CHANDLER: No. Why do you keep doing that?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Because I dont I dont want to subject Jordy to this until I mean, I feel
very uncomfortable
MR. CHANDLER: Let me put it to you this way: I have a set routine of words that Im going to go
in there that have been rehearsed and Im going to say.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Okay? Because I dont want to say anything that could be used against me.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: So I know exactly what I can say. Thats why Im bringing the tape recorder.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I have some things on paper to show a few people
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and thats it. My whole part is going to take two or three minutes, and Im
going to turn around [tape irregularity], and thats it. Theres not going to be anything said, other
than what Ive been told to say
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and Im going to turn around and leave, and theyre going to have a decision
to make.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: And based on that decision, Ill decide whether or not were going to talk again
or whether its going to go further.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I have to make a phone call. As soon as I leave the house, I get on the
telephone.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I make a phone call.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Say Go or I say, Dont go yet, and thats
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: the way its gonna to be. Ive been told what to do, and I have to do it. Im
not I happen to know whats going to be going on, see? They dont have to say anything to me.
[Tape irregularity] you have refused to listen to me. Now youre going to have to listen to me. This
is my position. Give it a thought.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Think it over. Im not saying anything bad about anybody, okay? Ive got it
all on paper.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Im going to hand out the paper so that I dont inadvertently [tape irregularity],
handing out the paper, Michael, heres your paper. June, heres your paper.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Compare papers. Read this whole thing. This is my feelings about it. Do you
want to talk further? Well talk again.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: If you dont [tape irregularity] but, see, all Im trying to do now, they have
forced me to go [tape irregularity] on paper and give it to them to read
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: because [tape irregularity]. I mean, isnt that pitiful? Now, why would they
want to cut me out, to go this far, spend this much money, spend so much time in my life crying,
being away from my practice, not paying [tape irregularity] everybody else? Why would they want
to put me through that? And I made it very clear to June that she was putting me through that
because I didnt want any misunderstandings. Ive done everything I could to appeal to her.
(Inaudible) is cold and heart- absolutely cold and heartless. Thats all
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, maybe on the surface it appears like that, but I
MR. CHANDLER: I know on the surface June is charming
MR. SCHWARTZ: No, no. I think on the surface it might appear cold, but I dont I dont agree
with that.
MR. CHANDLER: Dave, Go fuck yourself is not a surface reaction.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. Have you ever you mean you have never done that, right?
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) and they say Go fuck yourself, thats not a surface

MR. SCHWARTZ: Youve never done it?

MR. CHANDLER: sorry.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Youve never done it? I mean, have you ever got pissed at a friend and gotten in
an argument for three weeks?
MR. CHANDLER: No, no, no.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Never, ever?
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) like that, Dave, not consistently like that.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) so far as to go to say, Okay. Forget about me.
This is whats going on with Jordan. This is my concern, and have her say Go fuck yourself
again. So [tape irregularity] there I said, This is not a human being Im dealing with anymore.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, let me ask you this I mean, did you give Jordy any ultimatums?
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Because, see, thats how he feels trapped, I think.
MR. CHANDLER: Too bad.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, why I mean
MR. CHANDLER: All he has to do is talk to me about it.
MR. SCHWARTZ: I know, but how can you I mean, you know what you could do I mean,
couldnt you approach it like saying, Jordy, this is how I feel. This is why communications is
important. We gotta discuss this.
MR. CHANDLER: This is what I said to Jordy. I said, What if I asked you not to do
something? Thats how I put it.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: He said, I wouldnt care.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Thats what he said.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, whats wrong with that?
MR. CHANDLER: Whats wrong?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. I mean, what is wrong with that?
MR. CHANDLER: Well, let me ask you this: Never in his life, ever, would he have did he ever
respond that way or would he have ever responded that way
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: which means that something has happened inside of him and in his life that
is now making him respond to me in a totally different way. What has happened to him? His
mothers changed, and Michaels in his life, and you werent there to balance it out. And thats it.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Right, and I wasnt there, and youre right.
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.
MR. SCHWARTZ: I wasnt there to discuss it with him.
MR. CHANDLER: So the whole thing happened.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
MR. CHANDLER: And thats it.
MR. SCHWARTZ: So blame me.
MR. CHANDLER: Oh, Im not blaming you.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But it is my fault.
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible).
MR. SCHWARTZ: Its my fault. I wasnt there to
MR. CHANDLER: No, no. You dont understand. Were gonna see whose fault it is. And Im gonna
tell you: It isnt up to you to decide whose fault it is or up to me to decide whose fault it is. Other
people who are trained to [tape irregularity] whose fault it is are going to make that decision, and
Ill bet you anything that they dont decide that its your fault. Youre not going to get blamed, and
you can go and say whatever you want. No ones [tape irregularity] they may say, Thats very nice.
Get the fuck out of here, and lets get down to the real issues, but thats it. Thats whats going to
happen. Im not getting blamed and youre not getting blamed. And thats I mean
MR. SCHWARTZ: But no one should get blamed. I mean
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) talking about bottom line because thats what its
really going to come down to
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: bottom line, no ones gonna give a shit about you in this issue.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: So when you tell me that I should blame you, thats not the bottom line. Thats
not how its going to be seen (simultaneous, inaudible).
MR. SCHWARTZ: But does there have to be where someones at fault? Cant it be where we just
work it out?
MR. CHANDLER: Well, you see yeah. Thats why I tried to get in touch with them, to
(simultaneous, inaudible) work it out
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, well, but thats wait.
MR. CHANDLER: but they dont want to talk to me.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. Well, thats not true. That is not true.
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) till tomorrow
MR. SCHWARTZ: Have you ever gone through a period where you just didnt wait. Of course
you have. Of course you have.
MR. CHANDLER: Dave
MR. SCHWARTZ: When I screamed at Monique to get you to call me.
MR. CHANDLER: So what? That was one day. Two days.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But it didnt matter it cant count the days.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, I have to count the days because I cant let it go on forever. By the way,
theyre going on tour on August th. Theyre going to be gone. Theyre going to be out of the
country
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: for four months.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Is that bad?
MR. CHANDLER: Well, Im not going to be able to communicate with them about this when
theyre gone, am I?
MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, but you think that
MR. CHANDLER: By the way, theyre not going.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: They dont know that yet, but they are not going.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: So, I mean, especially if they dont show up tomorrow, theyre definitely not
going. Theyll be lucky if Michael even
MR. SCHWARTZ: Let me ask you let me ask you this
MR. CHANDLER: tour (inaudible) get canceled.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, let me let me ask you this: I mean, why cant you meet why cant
we meet after I get off work?
MR. CHANDLER: Because
MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, why not? Whats the difference?
MR. CHANDLER: Seems to me its not important enough for you to take off work to be
MR. SCHWARTZ: It is important enough, but I still
MR. CHANDLER: Fuck your job.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait, wait.
MR. CHANDLER: Its still going to be there at :. This whole things going to take five minutes.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Ive already told you I have Im not allowed to say anything more
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: than Ive already prepared. Its on paper.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Is it your
MR. CHANDLER: Im not going in to
MR. SCHWARTZ: Is it because of your attorney?
MR. CHANDLER: What?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Because of your attorney?
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Why dont we meet at your attorneys office?
MR. CHANDLER: Well, thats something we can do if we get past tomorrow.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Hes willing to meet with them. Right now hed like to kill them all. I picked
the nastiest mother-fucker I could find.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: The only reason that Im meeting with them tomorrow is, the real fact of the
matter is
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: because of Monique.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Monique begged me to do it.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: She said, Youre out of control
MR. SCHWARTZ: Can Monique be there?
MR. CHANDLER: Tomorrow?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: She wanted to be there, but
MR. SCHWARTZ: I want her to be there.
MR. CHANDLER: I wouldnt let her.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Why? Why not?
MR. CHANDLER: Because June hates Monique.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Thats not true.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, you know something?
MR. SCHWARTZ: That is not true
MR. CHANDLER: Now
MR. SCHWARTZ: at all.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, really! Well, then that makes Jordy a liar, and that makes Michael a liar.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?
MR. CHANDLER: They both told me that Monique that June
MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. You cant see that whole thing?
MR. CHANDLER: What?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Thats woman jealousy.
MR. CHANDLER: I dont care what
MR. SCHWARTZ: It doesnt matter
MR. CHANDLER: The problem is youre in love with her so you keep on making excuses.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait, wait.
MR. CHANDLER: Im not in love with her anymore. I dont even like her anymore.
MR. SCHWARTZ: You dont know about female jealousy?
MR. CHANDLER: I dont care about that.
MR. SCHWARTZ: That has nothing
MR. CHANDLER: (Inaudible) Dave. Thats pathologic. I dont want that affecting
MR. SCHWARTZ: Thats not pathologic. That is the bottom line.
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) pathologic. I dont care what the reason is. I dont
care. Im not playing psychiatrist and analyzing.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But why wouldnt you want Monique there? I would feel much more
comfortable.
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible), thats why.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Pardon me?
MR. CHANDLER: Because June hates her, so I dont want to
MR. SCHWARTZ: She does not hate her.
MR. CHANDLER: Of course she hates her.
MR. SCHWARTZ: She totally respects her and doesnt hate her.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, then, Jordy is a liar and Michael (inaudible)
MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait, wait.
MR. CHANDLER: because they told me verbatim, together
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah?
MR. CHANDLER: that June hates Monique. In fact, they went even further and told me several
of the things that June said about Monique.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Okay? Now, maybe they went back and told June that Monique said things
about her and
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: (inaudible) lied. Maybe theyre lying. I dont know. But knowing June, I
dont think that they lied. I think theyre telling me the truth.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: And I want Monique out of this completely.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Because all that will happen is that June will convince Jordy that Moniques a
bad person and by her presence there she must have put me up to this whole thing
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and June will fabricate some great lie
MR. SCHWARTZ: Ahhh.
MR. CHANDLER: (simultaneous, inaudible) Im only going there because of Monique,
because, to tell you the truth, Dave, it would be a lot easier for me and a lot more satisfying
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: to see everybody get destroyed
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: like theyve destroyed me, but it would be a lot easier. And Monique just
kept telling me, You dont want to really do this, and she finally [tape irregularity] for the sake of
everything that weve all had in the past
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: to give it one more try, and thats the only reason, because this attorney I
found I mean, I interviewed several, and I picked the nastiest son of a bitch
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I could find, and all he wants to do is get this out in the public as fast as he
can, as big as he can
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and humiliate as many people as he can, and hes got a bad [tape
irregularity]
MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think thats good?
MR. CHANDLER: (simultaneous, inaudible) hes costing me a lot of money.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think thats good?
MR. CHANDLER: I think thats great. I think its terrific. The best. Because when somebody
when somebody tells you that they dont want to talk to you
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: you have to talk to them
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: you have to get their attention. Its a matter of life and death. Thats how Im
taking it. I have to talk to them.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: This is life and death for my son. I have to get their attention. If I dont get it, if
I havent gotten it on the phone and I dont get it tomorrow
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: this guy will certainly get it. Thats the next step. And you want to know
something? I even have somebody after him if he doesnt [tape irregularity]. But I dont want [tape
malfunctioned]. Im not kidding. I mean what I told you before.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Its true. I mean, it could be a massacre if I dont get what I want. But I do
believe this person will get what he wants.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: So he would just really love [tape irregularity] nothing better than to have this
go forward. He is nasty, he is mean
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: he is very smart [tape irregularity], and hes hungry for the publicity [tape
irregularity] better for him.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: And thats where itll go
MR. SCHWARTZ: You dont think everyone loses?
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) totally humiliate him in every way
MR. SCHWARTZ: That everyone doesnt lose in that?
MR. CHANDLER: Thats not the issue. See, the issue is that if I have to go that far
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I cant stop and think Who wins and who loses?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: All I can think about is I only have one goal, and the goal is to get their
attention
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: so that [tape irregularity] concerns are, and as long as they dont want to talk
to me, I cant tell them what my concerns are, so I have to go step by step, each time escalating the
attention-getting mechanism, and thats all I regard him as, as an attention-getting mechanism.
Unfortunately, after that, its totally out of [tape irregularity]. Itll take on so much momentum of its
own that its going to be out of all our control. Its going to be monumentally huge, and Im not
going to have any way to stop it. No one else is either at that point. I mean, once I make that phone
call, this guys just going to destroy everybody in site in any devious, nasty, cruel way that he can
do it. And Ive given him full authority to do that. To go beyond tomorrow, that would mean I have
done every possible thing in my individual power to tell them to sit down and talk to me; and if they
still [tape irregularity], I got to escalate the attention-getting chanism. Hes the next one. I cant go
to somebody nice [tape irregularity]. It doesnt work with them. I already found that out. Get some
niceness and just go fuck yourself.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Basically, what they have to know, ultimately, is that their lives are over, if they
dont sit down. One way or the other, itll either go to the next step or the [tape irregularity]. Im not
stopping until I get their attention. Do I [tape irregularity] the only goal is right now I have to do
what I think is best for Jordy
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and I think whats going on now is bad for Jordy, and therefore any
alternative is better. If Im wrong, they should sit down, and they should tell me why Im wrong.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: But
MR. SCHWARTZ: So wouldnt you sit down with me, and we could discuss it first?
MR. CHANDLER: No, because you dont know the issues.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but you could tell me.
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) totally ignorant of all the issues. No. Theres really
no way you could relate these to somebody, you know.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah? Well, sure you could.
MR. CHANDLER: Like itll get related. Itll get related, you know. Youll see it. Youll see it, and
its not going to be up for me or you to decide.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Can you meet him here at work?
MR. CHANDLER: Oh, no. Im going to meet at the house.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Why cant you meet here?
MR. CHANDLER: Well, for one thing, ichael has to be there.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Michael will come.
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) wont be at Rent a Wreck.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Michael would come here.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, how do you know that?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Ill see. I mean, if hell come here, will you do it here?
MR. CHANDLER: No. Why?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Because its easier for me.
MR. CHANDLER: So you could be at work?
MR. SCHWARTZ: No. So I dont have to leave.
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) signals.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Pardon me?
MR. CHANDLER: You keep giving me these
MR. SCHWARTZ: Its not crossed signals. Im telling you its Im here every second. Its
difficult to get away.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, you have to get your priorities
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, but my priority is this, but, I mean, you can compromise for me.
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) tell me this is very difficult choice, you know, your
children or your work.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Hey, its not a difficult choice.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, then
MR. SCHWARTZ: But its just
MR. CHANDLER: the issue, then. Be it
MR. SCHWARTZ: It makes it wait. Whats the difference
MR. CHANDLER: (simultaneous, inaudible) work by : oclock.
MR. SCHWARTZ: What is the difference for you? I mean, it makes it easier for me. Is it different
for you?
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. Why is it different?
MR. CHANDLER: What if I told you their house was wired?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Does that make a difference?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
MR. CHANDLER: Im not saying it is.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Im just saying, What if it was?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, well
MR. CHANDLER: Would that would you could you see the [tape irregularity].
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Then you want to record it.
MR. CHANDLER: Lets just say that it is.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Lets just say that.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
MR. CHANDLER: Im not saying it is.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
MR. CHANDLER: But lets just say that it was. Okay? That would make a difference. (Inaudible)?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. You got to do me one favor.
MR. CHANDLER: What?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. The way weve just talked is completely the way youve sounded is
completely different than when I talked to you the first time. I mean, you gotta be
MR. CHANDLER: Well, (inaudible) talking tomorrow, Dave.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Pardon me?
MR. CHANDLER: I told you, its all on paper.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Thats why Im bringing a tape recorder.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, but are you going to be calm like this?
MR. CHANDLER: I have nothing to say.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Im not going to be calm. Im not going to be anything. Im not going to be
Im going to be totally void of anything.
Im just going to say, Look. Heres something for you guys to read. You read it. You think it over.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: If you want to sit down and talk, we can all meet in my attorneys office.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: If you want to tell me to go fuck myself, then just let me know that
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and Ill let him know thats what your feelings are.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, why do you
MR. CHANDLER: and that has to that has to happen before : oclock tomorrow. They have
to make that decision
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And let me ask you this
MR. CHANDLER: (simultaneous, inaudible) dont hear from them about it, then the wheels
start
MR. SCHWARTZ: Why do you have to have Jordy there, if all were going to do is read it?
MR. CHANDLER: I tried to explain that to you.
MR. SCHWARTZ: No. If we have to read something.
MR. CHANDLER: Because I explained that to you. I want him to see how Im behaving.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I want him to see how Im acting.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And why do you have to have Michael there?
MR. CHANDLER: Whats that beeping going on? Do you hear that?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Are you recording this?
MR. SCHWARTZ: No.
MR. CHANDLER: Do you hear the beeping?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, lets hang up.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
MR. CHANDLER: Okay.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Bye.
(Tape , Side B begins:)
CONVERSATION between Dave Schwartz and Evan Chandler:
(Dial tone.)
MR. SCHWARTZ: Hey, Ev.
MR. CHANDLER: Hi, Dave.
MR. SCHWARTZ: How you doing? Thanks for calling me back.
MR. CHANDLER: Okay. Im in the car. Im on the way home.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
MR. CHANDLER: Where are you?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Im at work.
MR. CHANDLER: Youre at [tape irregularity].
MR. SCHWARTZ: You want to come by here?
MR. CHANDLER: No. Im wasted, Man.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but Im we gotta talk this out.
MR. CHANDLER: Nothing to talk about.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Of course we can talk it out.
MR. CHANDLER: Just be there tomorrow if you want to hear what I want to say. Thats all. And if
theyre not there, then theres nothing that anybody has to say, and thats the end of it.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, let me ask you this:
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.
MR. SCHWARTZ: What if like, say, June and I are there?
MR. CHANDLER: No good.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?
MR. CHANDLER: They all have to be there.
MR. SCHWARTZ: They all have to be there. In fact, if anybody were missing, it would be June that
I wouldnt care the most.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Who?
MR. CHANDLER: June. The one that I care the most about
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. How about if Jordy and I go?
MR. CHANDLER: No. Jordy and you?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: And me?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: No.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?
MR. CHANDLER: Thats silly. No. Michael has to be there. Michael has to be there. Hes the main
one. Hes the one I want.
MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you think hes a bad guy?
MR. CHANDLER: Michael?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Hes an evil guy. Hes worse than bad.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And why do you believe that?
MR. CHANDLER: Huh?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Why do you believe that?
MR. CHANDLER: I have the evidence to prove it.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Youll believe it, too, when you hear
MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. Let me ask you something. I mean, you trust me, right?
MR. CHANDLER: Let me put it to you this way, Dave. Nobody in this world was allowed to come
between this family of June, me and Jordy. That was the hard [tape irregularity] be the opposite.
Thats evil. Thats one reason why hes evil. I spoke to him about it, Dave. I even told him that [tape
irregularity] the family.
MR. SCHWARTZ: When did you talk to him?
MR. CHANDLER: About that?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Months ago. When I first met him I told him that.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Thats the law. Thats the first thing he knew. Nobodys allowed to do that. Now
theres no family anymore.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I mean Jordys Jordys my life. Period.
MR. SCHWARTZ: How does this help it.
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) my life. What?
MR. SCHWARTZ: How does this help it?
MR. CHANDLER: It doesnt. It doesnt.I dont know how itll help it. It cant hurt it anymore. Its
I have thats why I have nothing to lose. I made this really clear to them. If theyre all there,
we could all sit and talk. If theyre not there
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, let me ask okay.
MR. CHANDLER: taking it out of my hands, and there wont be any talking anymore. They
have a chance. They have a chance to talk it out.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: If theyre not in a calm, peaceful manner
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: even said you can be there. You could be there. Im not going to do anything
with you there. Michael can come with bodyguards and all with guns if he wants to. He can even
come there with his [tape irregularity]. I dont care. All Im saying is everybody whos a party to
this (inaudible) sit down and talk about it.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I dont disagree with that.
MR. CHANDLER: Okay.
MR. SCHWARTZ: No, were not. See, now
MR. CHANDLER: dont want to be there, then they have made it to the point where I cant talk
to them about it
MR. SCHWARTZ: No.
MR. CHANDLER: so I have to force them to the table
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, no. I dont disagree with everyone sits down and talks about it.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, thats what Im calling thats what I called him about. Hello?
MR. SCHWARTZ: You mean, that was the message on the machine?
MR. CHANDLER: No. The man yeah. That was the message on the machine. It said theyd
better be there, because on the other times they tried hello?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: The other times I tried to tell them that I needed to talk to them, all I
got was, Go fuck yourself. Were not talking to you. So now I had to let them know and make
sure that they know theyd [tape irregularity] theyre gonna get hurt by it, so (inaudible) I had to
make [tape irregularity] if they dont sit down and talk to me theyre gonna get hurt. They cant
keep telling me to go fuck myself anymore. They have to talk. I want to talk to them. I dont want to
hurt anybody. Theyre forcing me to do it. Theyre forcing me to do it by refusing to sit down and
talk to me. Thats all I ask for. You sit down and you talk to me [tape irregularity] side of the story,
Ill listen to yours, we all sit down and see how it could be resolved.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. So thats there
MR. CHANDLER: Thats all I ask for.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but
MR. CHANDLER: Michael can come with all his bodyguards and his lawyer if he wants to. I dont
really care, as long as everything gets aired out. Thats it. And if I walk away dissatisfied, then Ill
take it to the next step. Thats all. If they walk away dissatisfied, they have the right to do that, too.
At least [tape irregularity] nothing will get resolved except for the fact that well agree to meet
again and talk about it.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I dont know where itll go, but Im saying is that when people when you
when people cut off communication totally, you only have two choices: To forget about them, or
you get frustrated by their action. I cant forget about them. I love them. Thats it. I dont like them.
I still love Jordy, but I do not like them because I do not like the people that theyve become, but I
do love them, and because I love them I dont want to see them [tape irregularity]. Thats why I was
willing to talk. I have nothing to gain by talking. If I go through with this, I win big time. Theres no
way that I lose. Ive checked that out inside out.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But when you say winning, what are you talking about, winning?
MR. CHANDLER: I will get everything I want, and they will be totally they will be destroyed
forever. They will be destroyed. June is gonna lose Jordy. She will have no right to ever see him
again.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Thats a fact, Dave.Thats what
MR. SCHWARTZ: Does that help
MR. CHANDLER: Michael the career will be over.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Does that help Jordy?
MR. CHANDLER: Michaels career will be over.
MR. SCHWARTZ: And does that help Jordy?
MR. CHANDLER: Its irrelevant to me.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but I mean the bottom line is
MR. CHANDLER: The bottom line to me is, yes, June is harming him, and Michael is harming
him. I can prove that, and I will prove that
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and if they force me to go to court about it, I will [tape irregularity], and I
will be granted custody. She will have no rights whatsoever.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Now, Im willing to sitdown and talk to her. If she wants to tell me to go fuck
myself after that, shes welcome to do it, and then shell either be right or wrong. [tape irregularity]
Ill win, maybe Ill lose. I have the [tape irregularity]
MR. SCHWARTZ: [tape irregularity] for custody?
MR. CHANDLER: Forget the custody thing. Its gonna go further than that.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But whats the bottom I mean, what is the bottom line, though?
MR. CHANDLER: What do you mean?
MR. SCHWARTZ: The bottom line is, I mean, your responsibility and my responsibility
MR. CHANDLER: The bottom line (simultaneous, inaudible) what I want?
MR. SCHWARTZ: No
MR. CHANDLER: Is that what youre saying?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. I mean
MR. CHANDLER: what I want?
MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, whats our responsibility in life, really?
MR. CHANDLER: Well, you dont have any right
MR. SCHWARTZ: The kids is the number one
MR. CHANDLER: to discuss that.
MR. SCHWARTZ: What?
MR. CHANDLER: You dont have any right to discuss that.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?
MR. CHANDLER: Youre a negligent father. You dont have a right, by your own admission
before. You told me that you were negligent.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: You were negligent to Jordy, and youve been negligent to Kelly.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: In a court in a court of law, June could prove you negligent in one flat
fucking second.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. So?
MR. CHANDLER: You dont have any right to all of a sudden decide that youre going to be a
good father or have a conversation about whats right to do. Ive never condemned you for it. I
know what youre going through [tape irregularity] that. I understand you have to stay away in
order to be a normal human being. I understand that, but no ones gonna give a shit about that in
court. You and I live [tape irregularity] but Im still living through it every day at my office, and its
just bad for me too, believe me, and I understand you really well, and I know why [tape irregularity]
shell make you look bad in one second.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. I dont disagree with that.
MR. CHANDLER: Okay. Well, this time its gonna be the other way around because she you
see, I love him so much that Im willing to destroy my own life to protect him
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: to do what I think is the best thing to do, not just its not what I think. Ive
gotten professional [tape irregularity] everybody agrees that the only thing that was insane is that I
didnt step in a long
MR. SCHWARTZ: This is
MR. CHANDLER: This is
MR. SCHWARTZ: detrimental to him?
MR. CHANDLER: Extremely harmful to him.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Everybody agrees with that. I mean, they its their opinions that have
convinced me to not stay away. You know, Im not confrontational. Ive got an [tape irregularity]
inclination to do what you do, say, Okay. Go fuck yourself. Go do what you want to do, and, you
know, call me some day. Ill see you then. I got a [tape irregularity], but Ive been so convinced by
professional opinions that I have been negligent in not stepping in sooner that now its made me
insane. Now I actually feel [tape irregularity]
MR. SCHWARTZ: Oh, I do, and I
MR. CHANDLER: [tape irregularity] more important than the money, if the kids more
important that you are, and theyre more important than I am
MR. SCHWARTZ: And they are.
MR. CHANDLER: Okay. Then
MR. SCHWARTZ: But let me ask
MR. CHANDLER: by action, Dave.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay, but
MR. CHANDLER: Staying away from the family is not a good way of indicating that you care
about your family. Its a copout, and you
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I dont know if its a copout. It might be the
MR. CHANDLER: My feeling is, Dave, my feeling is that when you have really good
communication with somebody, you dont have to stay away from them.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, what happens when you
MR. CHANDLER: agree, but at least you could talk. You know, as long as youre talking,
nobodys gonna get hurt. When the talking stops, thats when people get hurt.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And thats what happened with you?
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, thats what happened with me. They wont return my phone calls. June
called me once last week.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: She told me to go fuck myself. Not in those words.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: But you dont have to say it in those words.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But you know June.
MR. CHANDLER: I
MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, you know her thing is that she has to get the last word in.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, she isnt this time, Dave, and you want to know something
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but you put her down for that?
MR. CHANDLER: Do I put her down?
MR. SCHWARTZ: For that?
MR. CHANDLER: I never did before, but when her getting her last word is now going to be
harmful to Jordy, yes, I am going to step in, and, again, Im not telling you this is my my opinion
was formed by
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: but this is my perception of [tape irregularity] professional opinions to make
sure I wasnt going off the deep end here.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: And all Im telling you is Ive always said this to June, and Ive said this to
Monique also, and Ill say this to anybody I can. No matter what I do, youre wrong automatically if
you dont sit down and talk about it, because my feeling is [tape irregularity] and you [tape
irregularity] talk anything will be worked out. But as soon as you cut off communication you only
frustrate the other person. And that makes and that makes you wrong [tape irregularity] worse
that way. You say to them, I dont care enough about you to sit down and talk.
MR. SCHWARTZ: I dont disagree with that.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, thats all I was asking. Ive asked them for a month to sit down and talk to
me, and Im very disturbed and very concerned. I want them to hear my concerns.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Let them just tell me why Im wrong. Let them just tell me that [tape
irregularity] detrimental, etcetera. Let them just tell me that. And maybe Ill disagree with them, and
then well take it from there.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But at least you can talk about it.
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. I mean, they will not talk.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) forced me
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well
MR. CHANDLER: What do I do? I mean, in the opinion of these experts, I would be a negligent
father if I did not do what I am now doing.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: In fact, in their opinion I have been negligent not to put a stop to [tape
irregularity] opinion. I happen to agree with them now. I didnt agree with them at first. Michael
[tape irregularity] nice [tape irregularity]
MR. SCHWARTZ: So why do you think hes not nice?
MR. CHANDLER: Why? Because he broke up the family, thats why.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: And he was put on notice from the first sentence out of my mouth was,
Michael, I think youre really a great guy. Youre welcome into the family, as long as you are who
you seem to be, but dont take anything [tape irregularity]. I mean, that to me was the worst thing
anybody could do to me.
MR. SCHWARTZ: And you think he did it?
MR. CHANDLER: Well, Dave, if he wasnt in the picture, everything would be as it was. Im not
MR. SCHWARTZ: But thats sort of
MR. CHANDLER: saying that he did it premeditative, and Im not saying he did it on his own.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Im saying that he might have it might have just evolved that way, and it
might have evolved that [tape irregularity] desire, so Im blaming all three of them, but when I
come to that [tape irregularity], it really makes me hate June because the family was inviolate, [tape
irregularity] felt about it. There was nothing I had. I mean, you came in this family and made it
better. It was great. Someone else comes along and breaks it up. You know how [tape irregularity].
Okay. So do I [tape irregularity] coming into the family whos going to do good things for the
family.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But, I mean
MR. CHANDLER: Michael divided and conquered, Dave.
MR. SCHWARTZ: He what?
MR. CHANDLER: He divided and conquered.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well
MR. CHANDLER: He did, Dave. He did.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Oh
MR. CHANDLER: June and I agreed on the issue, whether it was her side or my side. If we both
thought the same way [tape irregularity] any frustration. The fact is we both do not think the same
way, and he and I sincerely believe that he either consciously [tape irregularity] manipulated
that. I think he consciously manipulated that because Michael Jackson [tape irregularity] the
smartest streetwise people
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: that Ive ever met, and if you sit down and have any long conversations with
him, [tape irregularity] that guy is extremely bright.
MR. SCHWARTZ: So is that good or bad?
MR. CHANDLER: That hes bright?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I think that if you use it for bad then youre evil.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, do you think hes sensitive?
MR. CHANDLER: Do I what?
MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, you know him a lot better than I know him. I dont know him. I mean,
Ive talked to him a couple times, but
MR. CHANDLER: I thought I knew him.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think hes sensitive?
MR. CHANDLER: I think hes totally insensitive. I think hes sensitive I think hes an extremely
selfish person.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think that he knows what was going on?
MR. CHANDLER: Of course he knows that.
MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, this is the bottom line. The bottom line is I abandoned the family.
MR. CHANDLER: What?
MR. SCHWARTZ: The bottom line is I abandoned the family. Thats the bottom line.
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) line
MR. SCHWARTZ: so this is
MR. CHANDLER: The bottom line is the bottom line is he took Jordy out of the family with
Junes help.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, yes and no, but, I mean, theres a lot of things, and I I mean, youre
bright, youre sensitive
MR. CHANDLER: Why dont I put it this way, Dave. If you were there all the time, living in that
house
MR. SCHWARTZ: It wouldnt have happened.
MR. CHANDLER: Thats right. It wouldnt have even had a chance to happen.
MR. SCHWARTZ: It wouldnt have happened, and I its all my fault.
MR. CHANDLER: No, it isnt all your fault.
MR. SCHWARTZ: It is definitely a hundred percent my fault.
MR. CHANDLER: Ill tell you what. Whenever you have an argument with somebody, when I have
an argument with Monique, when you have an argument with June, if I have an argument with you,
its rarely one sided. Theres almost you know, theres always two sides to every
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Theres ten sides to every
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) you cant tell me, realistically, that June didnt
frustrate the hell out of you so many times that you finally left the house just to be sane, just to be
alone and come back to your own sanity to get anyplace with her.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, you know, I agree with that completely, but the only thing is what see, I
havent only done it with June. I do it in every other relationship and in my work relationships.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, then
MR. SCHWARTZ: So its my hang-up.
MR. CHANDLER: problem with that, then that problem has ultimately ended up bringing the
family to this point. But youre not solely to blame for it. It doesnt mean that June was still I
didnt do anything that they didnt have the right to take my kid away from me, to break up the
family.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well Im in my garage. Can I call you back from the house?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: At the same number?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: If I dont call you back in five minutes it means its off my pager. Call me at the
house.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
MR. CHANDLER: Im in the garage right now.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
MR. CHANDLER: Bye.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Bye.
CONVERSATION between Dave Schwartz and Evan Chandler:
MR. SCHWARTZ: Hi.
MR. CHANDLER: Hi. Im on a cordless phone, so lets not use
MR. SCHWARTZ: Dont you have a regular phone?
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, but its in the kitchen, and I dont want to go upstairs.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
MR. CHANDLER: Im still wasted, Man.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Not as tired as me. Oh, youre probably as tired as me.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, I mean, we just dont we dont have to mention any names.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. If we could do this: If Im telling you, and you know I just talking
it out, I mean, I have a definite communication problem in my I mean, what happens is when I
get frustrated or I I mean, I just withdraw. Ive been doing it forever. I mean, Ive done it forever
with everything, and it works, you know, for it works for me. I mean because I get through it and
it just works and then Im back and its no
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, except do you want to know something? That can also be you think
that thats the best way to do something, but if you look at it closely, I mean, Ive always been that
way too. Nothings really worked (inaudible) confrontation, and nothings as big a deal as it seems
[tape irregularity]
MR. SCHWARTZ: Oh, yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: except and so you back off, and everything sort of takes care of itself
MR. SCHWARTZ: Right, in time.
MR. CHANDLER: except in this time my looking the other way and my failing to deal with the
issues have harmed my son greatly. I believe that.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, are you talking about harmed him in the relationship with you?
MR. CHANDLER: Well, thats for sure.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But
MR. CHANDLER: (inaudible) forever.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, you know, I think hes frustrated about me and maybe taking it out on you.
MR. CHANDLER: No.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Because no. He has said a few things in the past. You know, Ive disappeared
for, you know, long periods of time.
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, you have.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Right. And he has mentioned you know, hes a real sensitive kid
MR. SCHWARTZ: But why do you take total blame for it? Its never one persons fault.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Now Im telling you its my fault. I know its my fault, and
MR. CHANDLER: You see
MR. SCHWARTZ: whatever
MR. CHANDLER: you think by doing that you might be you might be doing a lot of harm.
How many times can an [tape irregularity] when theres two human beings involved, theres two
sides to the story. I mean, its automatic. Two people could witness the same story in two different
ways. What Im saying is that I was married to June. Ive known June since
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. For a long time.
MR. CHANDLER: or something like that, so what Im saying is that I know her really well. I
think I do. Maybe I dont. I guess I dont because I suddenly saw a part of her a side of her
which I really hate.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but theyre into survival.
MR. CHANDLER: What do you mean?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Theyre into survival
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) are you talking about? What do you mean survival?
Because why? What makes it what do you mean?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I mean, they dont know whats going on. I have made them Junes real
macho
MR. CHANDLER: Thats exactly right.
MR. SCHWARTZ: on the surface, and underneath shes just insecure like all of us. Everyone is.
MR. CHANDLER: Dave
MR. SCHWARTZ: Everyones insecure. JFK was insecure. Everyone is.
MR. CHANDLER: Okay.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Thats the bottom line.
MR. CHANDLER: Okay. Lets say they are.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. Now, I havent really analyzed this until were just talking right now.
MR. CHANDLER: Okay.
MR. SCHWARTZ: I put the blame on me a hundred percent.
MR. CHANDLER: You put the blame on you
MR. SCHWARTZ: Completely a hundred percent.
MR. CHANDLER: Im sorry. I
MR. SCHWARTZ: Completely.
MR. CHANDLER: Let me put it to you this way, okay? You put all of you put the three of them
on the stand (simultaneous, inaudible)
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: any questions, and they will all be asked questions, and they will all have
psychological examinations
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: (simultaneous, inaudible) given lie detector tests.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Im going to tell you what. There is no excuse in law for June having done what
she does. Despite the fact that you might say its your fault
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: whatever you say is going to [tape irregularity] capable of making her own
decisions
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and she made those decisions to the harm of her son, despite the fact that,
yeah, maybe shes insecure, maybe shes macho on the surface, and maybe you fucked her over.
Maybe you did. Maybe you didnt.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Nobodys gonna give a shit about that. I know what youre saying.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
MR. CHANDLER: And I agree with you, and I think that had you two had a really good [tape
irregularity], maybe she wouldnt have had to do what she did.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
MR. CHANDLER: And I know what youre saying, and it breaks my heart, but I truly believe my
son is being harmed greatly and that his life he could be fucked up for the rest of his life [tape
irregularity].
MR. SCHWARTZ: You gotta tell me why you think hes being screwed up.
MR. CHANDLER: I have the evidence.
MR. SCHWARTZ: I know, but what I dont know what evidence. I dont know what youre
talking about.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, youll see.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But why cant you tell me? I swear
MR. CHANDLER: You show up in court and youll see it on the big fucking screen
MR. SCHWARTZ: But what
MR. CHANDLER: and then youll know what Im talking about.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: And youll hear in on tape recordings.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Youll hear it all. Youll see it all, just like I have.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: It cost me thousands, tens of thousands of dollars
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: to get the information I got, and I you know I dont have that kind of
money
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and I spent it, and Im willing to spend more, and Im willing
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: to go down financially to
MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think thats going to help Jordy?
MR. CHANDLER: Dave, Jordys I believe that Jordys already irreparably harmed.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Thats my true belief.
MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you think that hes fucking him?
MR. CHANDLER: I dont know. I have no idea.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But harmed in in just been spoiled?
MR. CHANDLER: No.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Just tell me
MR. CHANDLER: You know, you gotta forgive me for one thing, but I have been told by my
lawyer that if I say one thing to anybody
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Okay.
MR. CHANDLER: dont bother calling him again. He said this case is so open [tape irregularity]
You open your mouth and you blow it, he said, just dont come back to me.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. I respect that. Okay.
MR. CHANDLER: Not that I dont trust you or anything
MR. SCHWARTZ: I know. I respect it.
MR. CHANDLER: You have a vested interest in it
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
MR. CHANDLER: And let me tell you this, by the way: What harm would it be to you, what harm
would it be to your relationship to June, if Michael wasnt around anymore? You say that you [tape
irregularity] your fault. You say that you made her insecure.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait.
MR. CHANDLER: So if he wasnt around anymore
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah?
MR. CHANDLER: what do you think shes going to do? Shes going to come back to you. She
doesnt need you anymore. She doesnt even want you around anymore. Shes told me and shes
told you Im sure shes told you that if [tape irregularity] Michael shell get rid of you. Shes told
me that. She means it.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well
MR. CHANDLER: She means
MR. SCHWARTZ: The only thing I told you before is I told her I didnt want him buying her things
in Europe. I gave her some money. And then when he did buy her things and she told me, I got
pissed off at her. And thats it, and thats really the whole thing. Thats all we ever talked about.
MR. CHANDLER: How do you feel about her going off on tour with him? You told me when you
were there the other day that everybodys been calling you saying Your wifes been [tape
irregularity]
MR. SCHWARTZ: It does [tape irregularity]
MR. CHANDLER: And let me tell you something, by the way. Thats the best thing that could
happen to him, is that people think hes interested in June.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: The fact is, he has no interest in her whatsoever. The fact is he doesnt even care
about her. He doesnt even like her. Hes [tape irregularity]
MR. SCHWARTZ: You dont think he likes her?
MR. CHANDLER: I know he doesnt. He told me he doesnt. He cant stand her. He told me that
when
MR. SCHWARTZ: Huh! He cant stand her?
MR. CHANDLER: No. He told me that when he was in my house.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. At that point he liked us better than Jordy too. Jordys the same as
Michael. It was a simple divide and conquer. They felt us both out.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: They saw who was going to let them do what they wanted to do, and then they
made their choice.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: And until I had a talk with Jordy one day at [tape irregularity]
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: they were gonna come live with me. They were gonna pack up, leave Junes
house, and come here.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Thats what they were going to do, because they were getting more resistance
from her than they were getting from me. You cannot tell this stuff you cannot Im confiding
in you, okay, Dave?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
MR. CHANDLER: Right? Thats
MR. SCHWARTZ: Absolutely.
MR. CHANDLER: Nobodys to know this conversation
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: (simultaneous, inaudible) except you and me; is that right?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
MR. CHANDLER: You promise me?
MR. SCHWARTZ: I promise you.
MR. CHANDLER: Okay. What Im telling you is that Jordy and Michael are users.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: They had they were gonna they had their own relationship.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: They want to carry it out the way they want to carry it out. They dont want
anybody getting in the way [tape irregularity] least resistance, and thats the way theyre going.
They simply divided and conquered, and June went along with it. And she was wrong because she
did it to the detriment of Jordy.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Jordy is not old enough to make these kind of [tape irregularity] that hes
making.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But is that a huge life decision?
MR. CHANDLER: Oh, you bet it is.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you were you let me ask you this: Did you ever pull away from your
parents when you were a teenager?
MR. CHANDLER: I hated my parents.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think Jordy hates you?
MR. CHANDLER: If he doesnt, hes gonna hate me tomorrow.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But why do you
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) to
MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you want that?
MR. CHANDLER: It doesnt matter what I want.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But why would you want him to hate you, and why would you want to put him
through that
MR. CHANDLER: Because all I care about is what happens to him in the long run.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, the long run, is that going to be healthy in the long run?
MR. CHANDLER: According to the experts?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Absolutely.
According to the experts, if it goes on the way it is, hes doomed. He has no chance of ever being a
happy, healthy, normal human being, no
MR. SCHWARTZ: So what happens if you force him not to see him?
MR. CHANDLER: Not to see Michael?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Nobodys saying for sure what will happen. Most peoples feeling is that hes
gonna go on and hate me for a long time and then some day when he gets older hell thank me.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And why do you think he hates you now?
MR. CHANDLER: I said I think hell I said he may or may not hate me now
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: but hell definitely hate me tomorrow. Hell hate me, why? Because Im
taking Michael away from him. Thats why.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: And thats a
MR. SCHWARTZ: So you really think Michaels bad for him?
MR. CHANDLER: I know Michaels bad for him.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: You know how I know that? Why would somebody, Dave if you tell me this,
think of this logically. What reason would he want us split up [tape irregularity] would he want
me out of the way? What would be the reason, unless he has something to hide?
MR. SCHWARTZ: But
MR. CHANDLER: I know what he has to hide. I happen to know what it is.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: But I cant tell you.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
MR. CHANDLER: Im just asking you in terms of logic. You know me. Im not Im a pretty
liberal guy.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I dont get in anybodys way, okay? So, I mean, what reason would he want me
out of the way to such an extent that neither one of them will take my phone calls, neither one of
them will talk to me?
MR. SCHWARTZ: I think Jordys taken my route of just withdrawing.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, one of the lessons hes gonna learn is that that route doesnt work. See,
you just learned that lesson yourself. By you withdrawing, as you said in your own words, youre
the cause of this whole problem.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, I think I am.
MR. CHANDLER: Okay. So thats what withdrawal does for you. My approach to the whole thing
is that the one person the person who doesnt talk is the one whos wrong, period
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: no matter what the action was, I believe everything is preventable, every bad
action that anybody takes is unless youre truly pathologic
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: is probably preventable if you just found somebody who would sit [tape
irregularity] you know what? They dont even have to talk back and give you [tape irregularity] if
you get it out, everything will be okay, you know, but thats my approach. My approach is that the
people who dont talk are the ones who are wrong.
MR. SCHWARTZ: And I agree with that, totally.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, then youre wrong.
MR. SCHWARTZ: No. I
MR. CHANDLER: You (inaudible)
MR. SCHWARTZ: I just said I am wrong, but here is the other I mean, the thing is Jordys years
old. Im talking about adults. I mean, I dont know if he I mean, youre his dad. Youre his role
model.
MR. CHANDLER: No, Im not his role model.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yes, you are, definitely
MR. CHANDLER: Not anymore.
MR. SCHWARTZ: You are, positively, in the long run, youre his role model.
MR. CHANDLER: There is no there isnt gonna be a long run if things went on like this. Dont
you see? As long as I go along with whatever they want to do
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: everythings okay. As soon as I say you cant [tape irregularity] anybody
MR. SCHWARTZ: Did you go through that?
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, I went through that.
MR. SCHWARTZ: And how old were you?
MR. CHANDLER: Why do you oh, with my parents?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: No, I didnt go through that with my parents. I never had any outside influence
on me
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: was more powerful than my parents were.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I mean, Michael is very seductive, without even trying.
MR. CHANDLER: Oh, hes trying, believe me. He just looks like hes not trying because hes so
damn good at it.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I mean, its
MR. CHANDLER: Dave, he fooled me
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Ill tell you that. He fooled me, for a while.
MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you think this is
MR. CHANDLER: Theres no reason why they would have to cut me out unless they unless they
need me to be away so they can do certain things which I dont think are good to be doing.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: And I and not only that, but I dont even have anything to say about it,
okay? [tape irregularity] I think what theyre doing and it isnt bad, and so maybe Im wrong
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: but Im not even getting a chance to express that.
MR. SCHWARTZ: I think thats all I think its all fair because
MR. CHANDLER: I had a good communication with Michael.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: We were friends, you know. I liked him.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I respected him and everything else for what he is, you know. There was no
reason why he had to stop calling me. He could have called me.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: In fact, Dave, I you ask Jordy. I sat in the room one day, and I talked to
Michael and told him exactly what I want out of this whole relationship, what I want [tape
irregularity], okay, so he wouldnt have to figure me out.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: And one of things I said is we always have to be able to talk to each other.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Thats the rule, okay, because I know that as soon as you stop talking weird
things start going on and people [tape irregularity]
MR. SCHWARTZ: Imaginations take over.
MR. CHANDLER: Imagination will just kill you.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
MR. CHANDLER: It causes all kinds of problems, and so, I mean
MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, can you do this
MR. CHANDLER: Do you think you look. Do you know what its like? You go out with
listen. I just that old expression, you know. It came from some movie. How does it go? Just
because Im paranoid doesnt mean somebody isnt [tape irregularity]. You know that expression?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Okay. What it really means is that you may think Im crazy
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: (simultaneous, inaudible) Im thinking is actually right, but what Im saying
to you is that Ive had every single girl and I am not kidding you every [tape irregularity] ever
gone out with, from the very first girl to the very last, has heated on me, and I have never cheated
on anybody.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I would never. Now, if I wanted to, based on that history, I could be so fucking
paranoid about girls, I would never
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: be able to [tape irregularity] relationship. I wouldnt be able to [tape
irregularity] was like, I couldnt have a family. Id be a fucking raving lunatic. Okay?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: But whats my point? My point is that the only thing that keeps me from
getting that way is that I can talk about it and be reassured [tape irregularity] on it in my
imagination I mean, my wifes not home tonight.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Shes gonna be at a meeting until : oclock in the morning.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
MR. CHANDLER: Right? This has happened many times.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Shes going to go away to Cannes Film Festival next year
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: right? Do you know what thats like?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: That Film Festivals a fucking sex party.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Next year, without me, okay? Now, if I didnt have a chance to talk to her
about my fears, my [tape irregularity], probably shoot her, or Id divorce her.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: And Im not saying her as an individual. Wouldnt matter who I could be
married to Mother Teresa and Id have the same feeling. Its just because of what [tape irregularity]
that Ive been my fingers been stuck in the electric socket so much that I dont want to get stuck
in there again, so I keep and girls do that to me, you know? They keep fucking me up, so
MR. SCHWARTZ: So what was
MR. CHANDLER: bothers me. I might be totally irrational
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: but you want to know why Im not crazy about it at all and I have a great
relationship and I trust her and everything is fine?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Because shell sit down and shell talk to me about it.
MR. SCHWARTZ: And shes wildly in love with you.
MR. CHANDLER: She tells me she is.
MR. SCHWARTZ: She is.
MR. CHANDLER: Okay.
MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, its very obvious.
MR. CHANDLER: And you want to know what I told her? I told her this. I said June
Monique, I said, if you ever want to sleep with somebody else or if you dont love me anymore,
if you come to me and you tell me that [tape irregularity] out of the house and fuck his brains out,
Ill love you forever, Ill support you and wish you well. But if its the other way around, you fuck
him first and then you [tape irregularity], Ill kill you, period. I said, Those are the rules. If you
want to stay with me, you gotta understand thats the only way I can survive. Thats how I live.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Its all comes thats what really relationships
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, trust is real important.
MR. CHANDLER: When you get down to relationships like we like really intimate ones, okay?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Like you and I. I trust you with my life.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
MR. CHANDLER: And I know you trust me too.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
MR. CHANDLER: Okay? And with Monique, I said, Thats all Im after.
MR. SCHWARTZ: What does she say?
MR. CHANDLER: She said, I understand. Thats fine. She said, Itll never happen. I dont
know why youre bringing it up, but if youre bringing it up, I wont do it. Trust me. It wont
happen. I said, Okay. Im just Im telling you now ahead of time
MR. SCHWARTZ: Thats good communication.
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. I mean, Im not being embarrassed by it
MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
MR. CHANDLER: Im not keeping it inside. I want to have a good marriage and a good
relationship
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and I know this is one issue that bothers me, no matter who that girl would
be.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
MR. CHANDLER: Okay? Im not
MR. SCHWARTZ: In any
MR. CHANDLER: (simultaneous, inaudible) personal against her.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
MR. CHANDLER: Its just with me. Its my problem, and so Im letting her know that I have a
problem. Im not hiding anything. Id not trying to be macho cool dude about it.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
MR. CHANDLER: And so if I wasnt able to talk to her, this marriage would have been over a long
time ago.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Because [tape irregularity]
MR. SCHWARTZ: Dont we learn like that?
MR. CHANDLER: Because of my imagination, Dave.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but dont we learn through experiences
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) want to know what I really think? I really think most
people dont learn. I think at some point in our lives we develop behavior patterns, and even if we
know that theyre wrong we just cant break them.
MR. SCHWARTZ: You know
MR. CHANDLER: Most people cant change their behaviors.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) they are at a certain
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yes and no, but I think you get
MR. CHANDLER: Look at you. Are you going to change now because of what happened here?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, interesting
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) be different? Is your marriage going to be better?
Are you going to you know, you guys have no right to be married. I told June that myself many
times. She would call me all the time and say, Did Dave call Kelly? Did Dave call Jordy? No.
What kind of fucking marriage do you guys have? Why dont you guys just split up so he could see
his kids, at least
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: You know, if he doesnt want to come over to the house because of you, then
get divorced so he could see his kids. Theres nothing wrong with that. You know, you might be
better friends. She and I were better friends when we [tape irregularity], and what Im saying to her
is that if theres no if theres no communication, theres no sense in being together with anybody,
whether its a marriage or a friendship or a business relationship. If you cannot sit down and talk
[tape irregularity] ultimately gonna destruct, and thats what happened here. They shut me out from
the most important thing in my life. In fact, I dont have a life. I dont want to have a life [tape
irregularity].
MR. SCHWARTZ: I understand it, too, but I gotta tell you, in just talking to you this
time, see, Jordys copying me.
MR. CHANDLER: Well
MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, hes positively copying me. I mean, hes been with both of us since I
mean, Ive had him since hes almost as long as you have.
MR. CHANDLER: Thats right.
MR. SCHWARTZ: And hes
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) had him as long as hes been cognizant of the fact of
whos around him
MR. SCHWARTZ: Right, so
MR. CHANDLER: learned a lot from you.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, and one of the things he learned, probably, was just to withdraw, because
I do it, but, you know, Im not chastising myself for it. Im just looking at it objectively. I mean,
realistically. I mean, I would say
MR. CHANDLER: You havent (inaudible) and in some way its resonated throughout the family
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and partly been the cause of all this happening.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Right, but I mean hes, you know, hes learned a lot of good things from me.
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, Im sure he
MR. SCHWARTZ: But, you know, I mean, everyones not perfect.
MR. CHANDLER: No. Everyones not.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But I think
MR. CHANDLER: (Inaudible) expect everyone to be, but you gotta expect people that claim to
love you to communicate with you because if theres communication theres nothing. Whats the
sense of having your relationship? People dont even care enough about you to you tell them I
actually told June how much I was hurting. I said
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Im hurting, June. Im crying every day. Im dying.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but theyre going through every
MR. CHANDLER: Do you know what she said to me?
MR. SCHWARTZ: What?
MR. CHANDLER: Well, thats just too bad. Fuck that.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, but you cant I mean, you know June.
MR. CHANDLER: I cant make excuses for June.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Theres no way to make theres nothing to make an excuse. I mean, we all
have our good points and our bad points, and we all have things that
MR. CHANDLER: I think, you know, her bad points [tape irregularity] gone too far. I really do.
MR. SCHWARTZ: I think you gotta look at the overall picture. I mean, now were talking
MR. CHANDLER: I am looking at Im looking at Jordys picture. Thats the only picture Im
looking at. I Junes not part of it.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But do you think that
MR. CHANDLER: I know that after tomorrow in fact, not even after tomorrow. Its already
happened. I dont ever want anything to do with June anymore because June is not part of my
family. In my mind, shes died. I dont ever want to talk to her again. [tape irregularity] sitting on
the stand being totally humiliated or at the end of a shotgun. Thats the only way I want to see June
now. Shes gotta [tape irregularity] do this to kid. Again, its not right. Can do it to me. Cant do it to
my kid. Its not right.
MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you think that whatevers happening, if you think its bad for him,
shes done, you know, out of malice?
MR. CHANDLER: You want to know something? You dont even have to ask me. You could as
you said before, you want to sit down and talk to the people I spoke to
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: youre going to have a chance to do that if you want to. You go and ask the
experts
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and you wont have to ask. They will be there anyway. Theres not one
person in this world [tape irregularity] cant find a person
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: disagree with me. Im the one that disagreed with I didnt even want to
know about it.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I kept saying, No, this is okay. Theres nothing wrong. This is great. It took
experts to convince me [tape irregularity] that by not taking action
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: my son was going to be irreparably damaged for the rest of his life [tape
irregularity]. That was what I heard.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Because his friend is older, or because of all the seduction?
MR. CHANDLER: Well, you know, age in and of itself is not a harmful thing.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: But it could have been used to advantage, and in some ways Michael is using
his age and experience and his money and his power to great advantage to Jordy. The problem is
hes also harming him, greatly harming him, for his own selfish reasons. Hes not the altruistic, kind
human being that he appears to be.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) selfish motives here.
MR. SCHWARTZ: You mean, harming Jordy because its taken him out of reality?
MR. CHANDLER: Its not so much really what hes taken him out of. Its what hes brought him
into.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I mean, I dont mean to be devious. I just cant be
MR. SCHWARTZ: You cant tell me.
MR. CHANDLER: specific about it, but I tell you that, again, it all comes down to one thing.
They dont want to talk to me.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Jordy yeah, hes 13 years old. Hes only [tape irregularity], hoping that the
problem will go away by itself, but Junes old enough to know better. Junes the one thats frustrated
me.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, you know, this is the deal: I talked to Jordy about it today, about, you
know, his not contacting you and not calling you on Fathers Day and not sending you anything.
Hes confused June and this is the truth and from him. June did everything to get him to send
you a card, to call and everything. Hes just frustrated, you know, and I dont know about what or
you know, its just like hes scared or doesnt know what to do or
MR. CHANDLER: (Inaudible).
MR. SCHWARTZ: Pardon me?
MR. CHANDLER: June didnt do a thing to have him call me or send me a card by her own
admission to me last time. She didnt give a shit, is what she told me.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, but I dont believe that because, I mean
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) told me.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Because, I mean
MR. CHANDLER: I
MR. SCHWARTZ: With June and I talked to them today.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, then, shes lying to you, Dave.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, but would Jordy lie?
MR. CHANDLER: Now theyre scared shit.
MR. SCHWARTZ: No. Would Jordy no, because they dont know anything about it. I didnt
even tell them that I had talked to you this morning, okay?
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) them know you heard the message.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: And what are you going there all of a sudden? You havent been there
MR. SCHWARTZ: Last nights the first night Ive been there.
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. By accident?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, its Kellys birthday. I mean, you know, I got its tough for me too. Its
not easy. I mean, you dont really know whats going on with me, but, I mean, its very, very, very
difficult times for me.
MR. CHANDLER: So what?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Very.
MR. CHANDLER: So what youre saying is that because of your problem you sacrifice the kids.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I did it
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) money all during
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. I just I fucked up, but
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, you fucked up.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) Im not fucking up
MR. SCHWARTZ: when youre trying to survive
MR. CHANDLER: Hey, Dave, it doesnt matter. You want to know something? When my father
was dying of cancer
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and he had and he got in a car crash that crushed his leg and his spinal
cord
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: at the same time and he was in incredible pain
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I used to talk to him about it
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and he would say, You know what? Id say, Why dont you you never
talk you never talk about it, you never complain to anybody. He said, You know what?
Because everybodys got their own problems, and nobodys gonna think that my problems any
worse than their problem.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: And so as bad as your problem is [tape irregularity] it may not be on the same
scale, but emotionally, financially, psychologically, its devastating me as much as [tape
irregularity].
MR. SCHWARTZ: And I accept that.
MR. CHANDLER: Okay.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But I let me
MR. CHANDLER: Im telling you this: That as bad as my life is, Im willing to let it get a lot
worse
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and sacrifice whatever it is and I dont even consider it a sacrifice
give up whatever it is so that my son wont be damaged. Youre not willing to do that. You fall apart
just to save one of your kids [tape irregularity] away from my practice, from my family, from my
wife, from Cody, from everybody else, do whatever I have to do
MR. SCHWARTZ: And you think thatll save Jordy? I mean, dont you think theres a happy
medium?
MR. CHANDLER: No. Were not gonna save him. Junes not gonna save him. Whos gonna save
him? Gotta be me.
MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you really think he has
MR. CHANDLER: one.
MR. SCHWARTZ: You dont think its just gonna run its course?
MR. CHANDLER: Dave . . .
MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, you know more than I know, so Im at a disadvantage.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, then, I will tell you without question. Its gone way too far.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Jordy is never going to be the same person he was.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Its never by the time it runs its course
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: if it does, he will be so damaged hell never recover
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and thats not my opinion. I mean, I happen to be believe it now because my
eyes have been opened
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: but Im not the one that first [tape irregularity], so what Im saying to you is
that Im acting because [tape irregularity] Im going to cause him great harm, and you tell me if
maybe its gonna cause him harm right now. I think hell be harmed much greater if I do nothing,
and besides now Im convinced that if I do nothing Im going to be, from doing nothing, causing
him harm, and I couldnt
MR. SCHWARTZ: Did you discuss that with Monique?
MR. CHANDLER: Not really.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I mean, I dont want her involved. I mean, she would just like the whole thing
to go away.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: But weve had a nice little relationship and a great new marriage and a nice
little family
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and everythings terrific over here.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: And, you know, Ive tried to explain to Cody why his brother doesnt call him
and he doesnt come over here. You know [tape irregularity] whole world, and Im not
exaggerating.
MR. SCHWARTZ: (Inaudible) Jordy.
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. You ask Monique when you speak to her if he doesnt bring it up every
conversation
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: (simultaneous, inaudible) out during the day. Cody spent about two weeks
crying his eyes out. Hed have nightmares about Jordy. Hed get up in the middle of the night and
come crying into our bed. Id listen to him talk, and I would break down
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and I couldnt even I mean, I couldnt even I couldnt I didnt
know what to say to him, you know? What can you say?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: It was the saddest thing I [tape irregularity]. I mean, how do you do that? years
old. Theres no you know, and a [tape irregularity] just come into it? I ask you this: If Michael
Jackson were just some -year-old person, would this be happening? No. Hes got power, hes got
money, hes got seduction. [tape irregularity] happening [tape irregularity] theyve been seduced
away from the family by power and by money.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: And by this guys image.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: He could be the same person without the power and the money, and they
wouldnt even be talking to him. You know it and I know it. So for power and money and his image,
June and Jordy have broken up the family, and even though [tape irregularity] a lot better, because
Ive sat down and talked to him, and Ive told him long before it came down to going this far
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: that Cody was really hysterical about him.
MR. SCHWARTZ: And what does he say?
MR. CHANDLER: He said that he would, you know, he would call him and hed talk to him and
stuff, and he tried, you know.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: As time went on, the times between when he did call or see Cody got longer
and longer and longer and longer until [tape irregularity] anymore. And you know what? He would
do the same thing to Kelly. Kelly just happens to have to come along because June has to happen to
come along
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: but if [tape irregularity] now, June wouldnt be in the picture and neither
would Kelly, any more than I am.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: They would have dumped her a long time ago. They even told me [tape
irregularity]. They cant stand her.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. Jordy cant stand June?
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. Neither one of them like her. They dont like anybody but each other.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: They dont like you, and they dont like me and they dont like her. They dont
want anybody coming between them. [tape irregularity] got to be liminated. You go ahead and you
see you tell June. You tell June to start saying No to everything they want
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and see what happens. The only reason shes there is because she says Yes
[tape irregularity] favorite as long as I was saying Yes. Trust me. I dont know whats happened to
Jordy except he doesnt care, literally does not care, if he would ever see him again. He hopes I
would go away and not bother him. Thats [tape irregularity].
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I know thats not true.
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) Michael.
MR. SCHWARTZ: I know thats not true.
MR. CHANDLER: Im telling you. But that doesnt matter, you know. Im not taking it personally.
Im just trying to do what I have been led to believe is the right action to take so that hes not
harmed. I mean, Unfortunately, June and [tape irregularity] because in order to protect Jordy certain
things are gonna have to come out, and those two are not going to have any defense against it
whatsoever. Theyre just going to be [tape irregularity] violently destroyed.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think that it helps Jordy?
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, itll help Jordy because he wont hell never see Michael again. Thats

MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you think that

MR. CHANDLER: And hes probably never gonna see June again if I have to go through with this.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think
MR. CHANDLER: Unless Id let him.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think that would affect him?
MR. CHANDLER: What?
MR. SCHWARTZ: That he was that this was done by force?
MR. CHANDLER: You mean that Michael did this to him?
 MR. SCHWARTZ: No, that you, like, are forcing him not to see someone or take him away from
his mom?
MR. CHANDLER: Well, I am gonna force him not to see
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but do you think thats the right way to do it?
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. Ive been led to believe that its the right thing to do. In fact, its the right
thing to do because how do you know? You dont know what
MR. SCHWARTZ: I dont have a clue.
MR. CHANDLER: Suppose you were to find out what theyre doing and you were to agree with
me that these things that theyre doing are harmful to Jordy or
MR. SCHWARTZ: Id like to know.
MR. CHANDLER: be harmful.
MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, in my wildest imagination I cant figure out what it is.
MR. CHANDLER: Okay. But suppose
MR. SCHWARTZ: Unless its sex, and I dont know, you know.
MR. CHANDLER: Suppose that you were to find out that there were things going on that you
believed were harmful to him? Would you say to me, Hey, look. You know, I got things to do here
[tape irregularity], but, you know, time will go by and everything will be okay? I mean, thats
MR. SCHWARTZ: No. What I would do Im not disagreeing with you.
MR. CHANDLER: Okay. Well, they wont talk to me about those things. They wont talk to me
about anything.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Even about what you think theyre doing or about what you know theyre
doing?
MR. CHANDLER: What I know theyre doing.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I mean, Ive tried to talk to Jordy. Jordy Jordy does not talk to me. This
stopped long before I told him he couldnt [tape irregularity]. He just does not talk to me anymore.
In fact, when he talks to Michael on the telephone, he goes in another room because Im not
allowed to hear what theyre talking about except I taped [tape irregularity] theyre talking about.
Ha ha ha. Anyway, all Im saying is that [tape irregularity] that I would be negligent to continue to
do nothing [tape irregularity] gonna be because nobody really knows how Jordy will be affected
one way or the other. I know for a fact that hes going to be affected adversely if I do nothing.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: So I have nothing to lose.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Would you do me a big favor?
MR. CHANDLER: What?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Could you and I go to one of these shrinks and talk it over?
MR. CHANDLER: No.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Why not?
MR. CHANDLER: Because its too late, after : tomorrow.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But why not? Why couldnt we go talk it over
MR. CHANDLER: Because the things already the thing has already been set in motion.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Its happening at :. : tomorrow
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: its out of my hands. I do nothing else again
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: after : tomorrow.
Its all been automatically set in motion.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Im not even in contact anymore
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: with this person. This thing is
MR. SCHWARTZ: Let me ask you this, then.
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) :, unless I call in
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and tell him not to do it.
MR. SCHWARTZ: So why dont you call and say not to do it?
MR. CHANDLER: Because Im not going to.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Why? Why wouldnt you go with me? I mean, we trust each other. We respect
each other. Why couldnt you go with me and wed decide together?
MR. CHANDLER: Because I dont want to talk to you about it.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?
MR. CHANDLER: I want to talk to June and Jordy and Michael
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but why cant you talk to me? I mean, Im I could be very
MR. CHANDLER: be there tomorrow and
MR. SCHWARTZ: Pardon me?
MR. CHANDLER: You can be there at the meeting tomorrow, and you can get a chance to talk to
him
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: if you want to, but if they dont say, Well, theres not going to be a
meeting
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.
MR. CHANDLER: I want to talk to them. I dont want to talk to you.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Because you have had your head buried in Rent A Wreck, and you have no idea
whats going on
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and just because you all of a sudden decide to have some interest in [tape
irregularity] I dont [tape irregularity] going on. It will take you weeks to catch up
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: youll never know whats going on by explanation.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Youd have to have lived it. Youd have to have witnessed it. Myself would
never have believed it
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: if I didnt live through it, see it and hear it.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I would not have believed it. And thats all. I cannot take this [tape irregularity]
over to you because thats the only way youre gonna know it.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: The evidence is already locked up in a safe place
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and its gonna come out only [tape irregularity] let it come out, and thats it.
If they dont talk to me tomorrow, out it comes.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. Well, but let me ask you this- -
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) Michael Jackson Michael Jacksons career,
Dave. This man is gonna be humiliated beyond belief. Youll not believe it. He will not believe
whats going to happen to him.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Beyond his worst nightmares. [tape irregularity] not sell one more record.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Thats for sure. And I mean Im [tape irregularity] it just has to happen in order
to get to keep [tape irregularity] and it doesnt have to happen if they show up tomorrow.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: But if they dont show up and Ive made it very clear Ive tried to make
it really clear on that answering machine, This is the last chance to talk. If you talk, we have a
chance. If we dont talk, its all over. Its out of my hands. I mean, what else can I do?
MR. SCHWARTZ: I dont you know, I dont
MR. CHANDLER: Whats the disadvantage to you if Michael Jacksons destroyed and out of the
family? What good is he doing you?
MR. SCHWARTZ: What harms it well, it has nothing to Im only thinking of Jordy.
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) come over to talk to you, you seemed pretty damned
upset that everybody was telling you that Michael Jackson has taken your family away from you.
You even went so far as to tell me you couldnt get bank loans because of that [tape irregularity]
turn around completely degrees.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Its not turning around .
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) for Michael Jackson.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Ill tell you what Im concerned about.
MR. CHANDLER: What?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Im concerned about Jordy.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, if you were concerned about Jordy, you should have been around a long
time ago, because I have been.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Where have you been?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, Ive been there plenty for him. I mean, in the years Ive been there a lot.
MR. CHANDLER: I agree
MR. SCHWARTZ: I would say
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) day
MR. SCHWARTZ: I would say this: So I made a few mistakes, but
MR. CHANDLER: Why
MR. SCHWARTZ: I cant condemn myself for it.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, why all of a sudden do you not want to be there?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Did I not want to be there?
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Because Ive been in a survival mode.
MR. CHANDLER: Oh, okay.
MR. SCHWARTZ: And, you know
MR. CHANDLER: The fact of the matter is
MR. SCHWARTZ: You know, you do what you have to do, and sometimes you make the wrong
move, and sometimes your emotions make you do it, and sometimes its just its the way that
you face it. Sometimes you
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) survival mode, and so youre doing what youre
doing, and Im not in a survival mode. Im trying for him to survive
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, what I
MR. CHANDLER: doing what I think
MR. SCHWARTZ: Ill tell you what. I would die for that kid. I mean, I have you dont know
what Ive done for that kid.
MR. CHANDLER: Easy to say that, Dave, but when you tell me youre in a survival mode so you
cant pay attention to your children, it doesnt jive with I would die for that kid.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. Im ashamed of that. Im not proud of that, but when you
MR. CHANDLER: I mean, how do you I mean, which of those two statements should I choose
to believe, because theyre both entirely opposite each other?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well
MR. CHANDLER: I would die for that kid or Im
MR. SCHWARTZ: If I had
MR. CHANDLER: in a survival mode and I
MR. SCHWARTZ: I would do anything for Jordy. I would lose everything. I would die for Jordy.
Thats the bottom line.
 MR. CHANDLER: Then why dont you just back me up right now and lets get rid of Michael
Jackson.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Because I dont know the facts.
MR. CHANDLER: Okay. Well, when you know
MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, I dont
MR. CHANDLER: Okay. When you know the facts, when you see the facts come out, then youll
make a decision at that point.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Right. Thats fair.
MR. CHANDLER: Okay.
MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, thats more than fair, but this let me
MR. CHANDLER: Its unfortunately gonna be too late, then, and nothings gonna matter at that
point.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?
MR. CHANDLER: Because the fact is so fucking overwhelming
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah?
MR. CHANDLER: that everybodys going to be destroyed in the process. The facts
themselves are gonna once this thing starts rolling
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: the facts themselves are gonna overwhelm. Its gonna be bigger than all of
us put together, and the whole things just gonna crash down on everybody and destroy everybody
in its sight. Thats [tape irregularity] humiliating, believe me.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And is that good?
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. Its great.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Why?
MR. CHANDLER: Great, because
MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, is that how youre
MR. CHANDLER: Because June and Jordy and Michael
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: have forced me to take it to the extreme
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: to get their attention. How pitiful, pitifuckingful they are to have done that.
Ive tried to get their attention
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Ive cried on the phone, Ive talked on the phone
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I have begged on the phone, and all I get back is, Go fuck yourself on the
phone, and so now Im still trying to get their attention until : tomorrow for their [tape irregularity],
and I will know that even having gone this far they wont talk to me, then I know that Im
absolutely right in doing what Im doing because they have left me no other [tape irregularity]. I am
not allowed to talk to [tape irregularity], and so since theyre sending me that message and telling
me that
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: they leave me no choice. They will not let me say to them, This is whats
bothering me, and this is what Id like to do about it. What do you think? Theyre saying, We
dont care what you have to think say about [tape irregularity].
MR. SCHWARTZ: You mean by no communication?
MR. CHANDLER: Am I supposed to just bury my head? No. Not when my kids involved.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I cant. So its their fault. Everythings their fault, one hundred percent, and the
reason its their fault [tape irregularity] try to communicate, and they have time after time frustrated
my attempts to talk by telling me, Go fuck yourself. And when you do that to somebody,
consistently, you drive them to do something [tape irregularity]. Im not an evil person. I dont want
to do this.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Its their fault because they wont talk. They have one more chance. Ive told
them this. Thats why I left that message. The message was very harsh [tape irregularity] and it was
very true, and it was to let them know that I am not kidding around.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Im begging them. That message was begging, one more time
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: to sit down and talk and saying basically, I dont want to hurt you, but
youre not leaving me any choice.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: And, you know, if they choose to ignore it, for whatever their motives June
doesnt ignore things for the same she doesnt bury her head in the sand and make believe its
gonna go away.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: June usually will call you up and say, Go fuck yourself and drop dead
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and shell get violent and all that, maybe even punch you in the face.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, thats not so bad.
MR. CHANDLER: Thats right, and yet shes not calling me
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: shes not doing anything. Shes not talking either. So Michaels not talking
either. The three of them, completely different personalities
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: handle situations in three completely different ways, and yet none of the
three of them is calling me.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: You can tell me that Jordys burying his head in the sand and thats his reaction
[tape irregularity]. Whats the other two excuses? I dont know. They wont even tell me what their
excuse for not talking to me is. I dont even I cant make an excuse for
MR. SCHWARTZ: Michael, I cant tell you. June, she doesnt know whats going on.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, of course she doesnt know whats going on. She wouldnt let me tell her.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But she doesnt going on know whats going on
MR. CHANDLER: I did tell her once.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I did tell her once what my thoughts were about it.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: And she said, Go fuck yourself, basically.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Does this
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) she said I do remember cause I wrote it on a
piece of paper.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: It shocked me so much coming from her mouth that I actually wrote it down,
verbatim, in quotes.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: That this human being would say something like that about her own kid, and so
now that I know that she feels that way about [tape irregularity] no reason why I should assume that
she gives a shit about me, so
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, you know she cares about you.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, you know, that doesnt matter anymore. June is nonexistent. If I have
no I have nothing for her anymore. I will never talk to her again, ever. Never. Shes a horrible
human being, and its all gonna come out, and I dont even have to say that [tape irregularity]. Ill
let everybody make their own decision.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: June is a horrible, selfish human being. [tape irregularity], and now I find this
out about how [tape irregularity] its all over. And if theyre stupid enough not to talk to me
tomorrow, well, theyre going to have
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I think they want to talk to you, and I want to talk to you.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, then they should
MR. SCHWARTZ: But when it comes with a threat, I mean, thats whats upsetting to me.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, thats too bad.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, why?
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) supposed to do to get someones attention? I say, I
am begging you to talk to me.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: That doesnt work. So then you cry hysterically on the phone, Im in so much
pain because Im losing
MR. SCHWARTZ: Who did you say that who was that to?
MR. CHANDLER: To June.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, and how long ago was that?
MR. CHANDLER: Oh, three weeks, maybe.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: And then you call up and you say, I demand to talk to him.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: None of that works.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) get the same response. I mean, no emotion from the
other side whatsoever.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Uh-huh.
MR. CHANDLER: Nothing.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Except the coldest response you can possibly imagine, okay?
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: And maybe its because shes insecure. I dont care anymore
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I cared at the time. I mean, I was totally shocked that she would respond that
way to me. I couldnt believe it. Okay? So I know that I have tried in every way. Ive appealed to
her in every way I know how. Ive appealed to her intelligence, Ive appealed to her emotions, and
so Ive done every Ive gotten on the ground and Ive groveled in front of her. Ive gone so far as
to tell her that her son is in danger.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: None of it made a difference, none of it, and so what else am I supposed to do
to get their attention?
MR. SCHWARTZ: I
MR. CHANDLER: If I didnt care, Dave, I wouldnt have left that message.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
MR. CHANDLER: I just would have gone and done whatever I wanted to do
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and theyd have gotten the shock of their life
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: that all of a sudden would have appeared out of nowhere, and then their
whole lives would be forever different and forever bad.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I have nothing to gain by talking to them tomorrow. All that can happen
tomorrow is that Im gonna look at their faces and Im gonna feel bad
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and Im gonna mitigate my position. Im gonna give in somewhat [tape
irregularity] I just went ahead and did what I was gonna do, I dont ever have to see them again
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: theyre automatically gonna be destroyed and Im gonna get what I want.
Thats a given [tape irregularity], so
MR. SCHWARTZ: But, I mean, is that the way to get Jordy?
MR. CHANDLER: talk to them Im talking to them for their sake
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: mine. This is my fourth, fifth and last attempt to communicate.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: So when I leave a threatening message, I am threatening them
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: because nothing else works. Crying didnt work. Begging didnt work.
Intelligence didnt work.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Appealing to the motherly [tape irregularity] nothing worked. So what else is
left? You threaten. If that doesnt work, youve basically tried everything there is that you could
possibly try.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I didnt threaten him physically. I didnt say I was going to kill them. Michael
can show up with all his bodyguards with guns and surround me if he wants to.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Im not killing anybody tomorrow. Its not the next step. His death is not the
next (inaudible), so I mean I will talk to them tomorrow, but thats for their they cant possibly
feel threatened.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Thats bullshit. I didnt threaten them physically in any way, and certainly
Michaels got enough [tape irregularity] lawyers (inaudible). He has Burt Fields, whos a big
hotshot, if he wants to, sit right there. I dont give a shit.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Whatever, you know, is going to make them protected from my great threat.
Im showing up all by my little self, and they can show up with an entire army if they need to
protect themselves from me, but theres nothing that they can do to convince me that theyre not
showing up because theyre afraid for their lives.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: They could show up [tape irregularity] surrounded by bodyguards. He could
certainly have them come over to Junes house, so [tape irregularity] threat was obviously the last
(inaudible). Ive never punched anybody. Ive never shot anybody. Ive never done anything violent
in my life. Theres no reason why they should feel physically threatened. Never ever given them
any indication that I [tape irregularity] Jordy, so, you know, they know that that threats [tape
irregularity] to be fearful of that. They know that that [tape irregularity] and they know that I left it
because theres no other way to get ahold of them.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Thats fair.
MR. CHANDLER: I mean, I think its fair.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Let me ask you this question. I mean, I definitely want to be there.
MR. CHANDLER: Thats fine.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Can we do it at night?
MR. CHANDLER: No. Has to be
MR. SCHWARTZ: Why not? Why does it have to be in the morning?
MR. CHANDLER: Because its too late at night.
MR. SCHWARTZ: It doesnt have to be late
MR. CHANDLER: I have to have the regular business hours. I need as many business hours
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: if it doesnt go my way to get the wheels going.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But what time are you ready to what time are you through work tomorrow
MR. CHANDLER: The wheels roll at : if theyre not there.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but can you do that for me, make it later?
MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) do it. I cant. You dont have to be there.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But I want to
MR. CHANDLER: tape record it. You can hear it all.
MR. SCHWARTZ: But I want to be there.
MR. CHANDLER: Well, then you have to be there at :. Its already set.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: There are other people involved that are waiting for my phone call that are
intentionally going to be in certain positions
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: [tape irregularity].
I paid them to do it. Theyre doing their job. I gotta just go ahead and follow through on the time
zone.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Um-hmm.
MR. CHANDLER: I mean the time set out. Everything is going according to a certain plan that
isnt just mine. Theres other people involved
MR. SCHWARTZ: How about : ?
MR. CHANDLER: Nope. : is not even going to work. I mean, theyre going to have theyre
going to have to be there or not be there. Its up to them what happens now. I mean, its not going to
be [tape irregularity] whether theyre there or not.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: But if they are there, its going to be far better than if theyre not I mean,
theyre going to have a chance to make things a lot better if theyre there. My instructions were to
kill and destroy [tape irregularity], Im telling you. mean, and by killing and destroying, Im going
to torture them, Dave.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Because thats what June has done to me. She has tortured me
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: and shes gonna know that you cant [tape irregularity]. Ill tell you one
thing that Jordy has no idea about, and thats what love means. He doesnt even have the remotest
idea. He cant learn it from June. She doesnt know what it means. She has no conception of what it
means.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: So maybe, you know, I can get (inaudible) teach him that. I dont know.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah [tape irregularity].
MR. CHANDLER: Part of it [tape irregularity] other people and communicating, and those are
three things that must be in place in order for a loving relationship to exist, because all of those
things show that you care about that other person. Not one thing [tape irregularity].
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but it was there.
MR. CHANDLER: No, I dont think it ever was, now that I
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: look at her behavior, Im just saying that June is a brilliant and pathologic
personality.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: What you see on the surface aint even remotely related to whats really going
on underneath.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: And I believe that that will come out in lie detector [tape irregularity]
psychological evaluations
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: which theyre all gonna have to do.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: So
MR. SCHWARTZ: And you think thats good for Jordy?
MR. CHANDLER: I think that in the long run would of course its not the best thing for Jordy.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: The best thing for Jordy would be for everybody to sit there and peaceably
resolve amongst themselves [tape irregularity], but because theyre not willing to do that, Im not
allowed to have a say in what the best [tape irregularity]. Im not even allowed to [tape irregularity]
Jordy is. Im not allowed to have a say in anything about Jordy. So when you ask me that question
[tape irregularity] I would welcome them to do that, but they dont care. They dont care about what
I think, so they dont ask me that question. Do I think I mean, just to answer your question, I
think that [tape irregularity] for Jordy either way in the short [tape irregularity], in the short term.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: I think in the long term hes got a [tape irregularity] a chance of being a happy
human being if I do what I have to do than if I let things go the way they are. Could a compromise
be worked out? Possibly.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. Let them convince me as to why [tape irregularity] tell me Im wrong.
Let them show me how Jordys benefitting and not being harmed. They got their chance.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: If they dont want it, they havent wanted to take it before.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: Theyve had four or five times that Ive called them [tape irregularity] havent
wanted to get in a conversation with me about it, and I believe they dont want to get in a
conversation with me about it is because they know they cant defend their position.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
MR. CHANDLER: [tape irregularity] to cut I mean, Im young, Im really liberal. As far as Im
concerned, anybody could do anything they want. Thats my philosophy. You guys can do whatever
you want. Just be happy. Dont get hurt. So . . .
(End of Tape , Side B.)

http://mjtruthnow.com/2011/02/transcript-of-david-schwartz-and-evan-chandler-taped-conversation/