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2010-02-15, 9:54 pm #1
nest0r Joined: Oct 2007
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So I'm curious, how do you folks use 'cloze deletion' in Anki (or outside it)? I am thinking of using it for light
novels somehow, perhaps selecting a swath of sentences per volume and SRSing them (with Question side
having sentence in cloze deletion form, word on the Answer side), or perhaps SRSing only the extracted
vocabulary and then reading the novel normally (but with the SRSed words removed).

You should not check out raseru's thread, because you might accidentally stumble upon ways of unwittingly
nding archived batches of light novels via Google.

Edited: 2010-02-15, 9:55 pm Reply

2010-02-15, 10:56 pm #2
JimmySeal Joined: Mar 2006
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I haven't used an SRS in a long time, but I used to create a close deletion ashcard in Anki at times when I was
reading and had an Aha! moment where I was able to gure out a meaning of an unknown word from the
surrounding context. Usually when you're able to infer a word's meaning from context, it also means that
you'll be able to produce it when it's presented in this format. In cases where it's still too open-ended, you can
provide the rst syllable as a hint.

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2010-02-16, 7:08 am #3
wccrawford Joined: Mar 2008
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Cloze deletion is tricky because the deleted word has to be such that the context can -only- produce that word
in that position. For most speech and writing, this isn't the case. It almost demands sentences made
specically for the SRS.

I haven't done it for Japanese (because I don't see how it's possible, except in very, very specic situations) but
I've done it for studying for an exam. It was tough, and I don't really recommend it.

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2010-02-16, 7:29 am #4
Asriel Joined: Feb 2008
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wccrawford Wrote:

I haven't done it for Japanese (because I don't see how it's possible, except in very, very specic situations) but I've done it
for studying for an exam. It was tough, and I don't really recommend it.

This

Unless have it where you only have a specic amount of words to choose from (like on exams) or you are
doing kana -> kanji, then cloze deletion is pretty tricky to work correctly.

For example...

This way, you can tell that it's without accidentally writing , , etc...

edit: thanks for catching the thing...

I know I was wrong, but originally I was thinking of the forced retirement at 65, so it'd be the company making
him retire, as opposed to him retiring

Edited: 2010-02-16, 10:01 am Reply

2010-02-16, 9:42 am #5
JimmySeal Joined: Mar 2006
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But like I said, when the question is ambiguous, give yourself hints to lead you toward the answer without
giving it away.

(<-- not , btw)

may leave too many possiblities, but I don't think this does:

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2010-02-16, 10:33 am #6
Tobberoth Joined: Aug 2008
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JimmySeal Wrote:

But like I said, when the question is ambiguous, give yourself hints to lead you toward the answer without giving it away.

(<-- not , btw)

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may leave too many possiblities, but I don't think this does:

If you're going to add stu to give it away though, what was the point to begin with? Too little help =
Impossible to narrow down an answer. Too much help = Too easy and won't train anything. One needs to nd
the perfect balance but personally, I don't think there is such a thing when it comes to cloze deletion, which is
why I don't use it.

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2010-02-16, 10:51 am #7
Nukemarine Joined: Jul 2007
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I'm using Cloze delete for grammar. For the last few months, it was using it with English descriptive phrases in
the closed o part while the rest was Japanese. This got fairly annoying in the more abstract parts later on.

Now, I'm cloze deleting the kana portion of the words being acted up by the grammar point. I even cloze
delete a blank space when no conjugation is supposed to happen. So, it's recognition cards, but with a bit of
production thrown in to boot. On occasion, I might add a descriptor.

[...]
[...]
[...give to other]
[...]

For vocabulary, I'm creating clozed deleted cards for the verbs. Based on the sentence, I just have to gure out
the proper conjugation and verb if there's a active or passive type (my main reason for doing this). It's easier
in Japanese since kanji is giving you the basic meaning most of the time.

[...]
[...]
[...]
[...]

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2010-02-16, 11:27 am #8
JimmySeal Joined: Mar 2006
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Tobberoth Wrote:

Too much help = Too easy and won't train anything.

If you think providing one syllable of a word is too much help, then I guess you and I disagree on what
qualies as too much help/won't train anything.

Quote:

what was the point to begin with?

It's the only approach I can think of for drilling production without incorporating another language. If you've
got any other ideas for accomplishing that, I'm all ears.

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2010-02-16, 1:56 pm #9
nest0r Joined: Oct 2007
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Thanks for the replies. Seems there's a lot of possibilities. I've tossed a few ideas around over the past cpl
years but haven't actually used them .;p The way I've used cloze deletion with other subjects is while I'm
reading, I copy/paste a passage into the SRS, cloze delete a few salient points so that the single words are on
the Answer side... the goal was only partially to remember particular 'word-concepts', mostly I was just trying
to anchor the ideas to one another, because the side-eect of that process was almost a rote memorization of
the word when I read the swath of text I took it from.

So then when I was looking at how useful it was to ooad goals for sentences (ie the listening/parsing in a
video clip deck, the vocabulary in a separate deck), I wanted something similar to practicing reading--except
for reading the emphasis wouldn't be on listening and parsing at someone else's pace, it would be to try and
get used to reading multi-sentence areas of text without stumbling, getting used to a less strict internal
process than I would have with the more intensive recognition cards I did with smart.fm/KO2001 starting out.

In that sense, I wouldn't be doing cloze deletion for reading to memorize vocabulary so much as to get used to
the process of associations words with one another quickly, making inferences on the y, etc., and the
'cheating' aspect of memorizing stu by rote and having those 'hints' would actually ensure a certain amount
of stability, as long as I maintain a smallish pool of words and paragraphs. Anyway, the idea's a work in
progress, bear with me and my explanations for now. ^_^

Oh, but ironically I've actually switched to ungraded cards in the SRS for those other subjects I mentioned, I
don't even add ll-in-the-blanks, I just copy/paste pieces of text and read them, then pass them. If a passage
comes up and it 'feels' too unfamiliar and doesn't summon conceptual associations, then I fail it or grade it
hard. It's odd but works.

Edited: 2010-02-16, 1:58 pm Reply

2010-12-08, 7:10 pm #10

nest0r Joined: Oct 2007
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nest0r Wrote:

So I'm curious, how do you folks use 'cloze deletion' in Anki (or outside it)? I am thinking of using it for light novels somehow,
perhaps selecting a swath of sentences per volume and SRSing them (with Question side having sentence in cloze deletion
form, word on the Answer side), or perhaps SRSing only the extracted vocabulary and then reading the novel normally (but
with the SRSed words removed).

nest0r Wrote:

Thanks for the replies. Seems there's a lot of possibilities. I've tossed a few ideas around over the past cpl years but haven't
actually used them .;p The way I've used cloze deletion with other subjects is while I'm reading, I copy/paste a passage into
the SRS, cloze delete a few salient points so that the single words are on the Answer side... the goal was only partially to
remember particular 'word-concepts', mostly I was just trying to anchor the ideas to one another, because the side-eect of
that process was almost a rote memorization of the word when I read the swath of text I took it from.

So then when I was looking at how useful it was to ooad goals for sentences (ie the listening/parsing in a video clip deck,
the vocabulary in a separate deck), I wanted something similar to practicing reading--except for reading the emphasis
wouldn't be on listening and parsing at someone else's pace, it would be to try and get used to reading multi-sentence areas
of text without stumbling, getting used to a less strict internal process than I would have with the more intensive recognition
cards I did with smart.fm/KO2001 starting out.

In that sense, I wouldn't be doing cloze deletion for reading to memorize vocabulary so much as to get used to the process
of associations words with one another quickly, making inferences on the y, etc., and the 'cheating' aspect of memorizing

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stu by rote and having those 'hints' would actually ensure a certain amount of stability, as long as I maintain a smallish
pool of words and paragraphs. Anyway, the idea's a work in progress, bear with me and my explanations for now. ^_^

Oh, but ironically I've actually switched to ungraded cards in the SRS for those other subjects I mentioned, I don't even add
ll-in-the-blanks, I just copy/paste pieces of text and read them, then pass them. If a passage comes up and it 'feels' too
unfamiliar and doesn't summon conceptual associations, then I fail it or grade it hard. It's odd but works.

Idea's still a work in progress (i.e. I forgot about it till someone mentioned 'MCCD' in AJATT), but another thing:
dynamic/multiple cloze delete collocations

BTW is this Dictionary of Japanese Collocations any good? http://www.amazon.com/Dictionary-

Japanes...4770023006

Also, Irixmark mentioned this, Common Japanese Collocations:

http://www.japantoday.com/category/book-...llocations - Any good?

So, how about a script that generates collocations from ebooks and other digital materials?

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2010-12-08, 8:12 pm #11

rich_f Joined: Jul 2007
Yeah, Baby, I'm a Freak... of Posting. Posts: 1,896
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I have the second book. (I had a coupon at Borders.) Not every phrase gets a sentence, but there are a lot of
collocations in there. Also, collocations are broken into 6 main themes: Home; Daily Life; People; School and
Work; Travel; Entertainment. Then each theme is subdivided further into what I'd call "scenes" like "Body &
Hygiene"; "Makeup"; etc.

So I'm not really sure how useful it is as a reference book. There's no index, so you have to gure out what you
want do, where you want to do it, gure out the scene, then hope they included it.

It feels like going through someone's attic.

Some Umbrella examples:

Umbrella:
open an umbrella
He was walking in the heavy rain without an umbrella.
[/] open [close] an umbrella.
close an umbrella halfway; have an umbrella half-closed.
bring an umbrella
The weather report says it will rain this evening,
so take your umbrella with you.
... (skipping some more obvious ones)...
share one's umbrella
A pretty girl shared her umbrella with me.
come under someone else's umbrella
She didn't have her umbrella with her, so we
shared mine to the station.

Hopefully that will give you an idea.

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2010-12-09, 9:19 pm #12

nest0r Joined: Oct 2007
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Is it just me, or in this day and age, shouldn't Japanese learning texts come in OCR'd ebook form. I would buy
those books but just can't be bothered with dead tree materials.

Edited: 2010-12-09, 9:20 pm Reply

2010-12-10, 12:17 am #13

rich_f Joined: Jul 2007
Yeah, Baby, I'm a Freak... of Posting. Posts: 1,896
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No, it's not you. I feel the same way. I have a stack of books I want someone to scan and OCR for me, but I
don't want them disassembled in the process. :\

I especially want to take some of my grammar problem set books and turn them into cloze cards for "fun"...
and that's going to either require a) a lot of typing of b) one of the Japanese-branded OCR programs, which
won't die when it runs into underlined text or a _____. (Unlike IRIS.)

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2010-12-10, 1:26 am #14

Thora Joined: Feb 2007
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nest0r Wrote:

So, how about a script that generates collocations from ebooks and other digital materials?

Those exist for text - some free, some paid. The guys that are into corpus analysis use them. Some let you set
how many words before and after to consider and it spits out all kinds of fancy frequency stats, etc. You can
also enter a number of text les and then generate a list of sentences in which word A appears within so many
words of word B, etc. When you click one the sentences, it open up the source text at that point.

I played around with Laurence Anthony's free concordance and word proler software ages ago. (He's at
Waseda U) Not sure if it has been updated or how it compares to what else is out there. The words proler is
based on vocab guru Paul Nation's Range program, but for Japanese. I'll see if I can nd the website that lists a
whole slew of them.

As for dictionaries, there's also:

(EPWING CD-ROM )
The Kenkyusha Dictionary of English Collocations on CD-ROM

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