http://www.economist.

com/blogs/americasview/2014/08/uruguay
The Economist: In your experience as a guerrilla and then in jail for so long in such
difficult conditions, what were the most important lessons that you learned?
President Mujica: Well, the most important lesson is that you cant compare one period
with another. The world that we are living in now is very different than the one we were
living in during the 1960s. There have been terrifying changes, for both better and
worse. This is a period that is terribly rich in uncertainty The cold war was an orderly
world compared with what we have nowNow when one looks at the Middle East it
makes ones head spin. In this framework, it is fantastic what technology has done to
help humanity progress: it has transformed all forms of war into a disaster for the
weakest. I have reassessed all of this, and throughout history man has been a bellicose
animal, terribly predatory; I dont believe in that poetic idea that ecologists put forth that
ancient man didnt attack nature. They were barbaric; they chopped down all of
Europes trees, almost transforming it into a desert. They transformed Spain into a
desert. Sometimes to hunt an animal they set the entire forest on fire. According to
anthropologists in the 35,000 years that it took humans to get from Alaska to Tierra del
Fuego, they killed off 30 orders of big animals.
Apart from that, the constant that one finds is the tendency to believe in somethingin
religion, in something magicand this makes me think that humans are utopian,
fantastically utopian, needing to believe in something. We havent left pre-history then.
Only culture and civilization can create a different humanity. We cannot, today, propose
war as a solution; whatever negotiated peace, however patched up, any fragile accord
on the edge of a precipice is much better than a war.
The Economist: But when I hear your reflections about, for example, how to manage or
interpret public opinion, leadership and respect for checks and balances, you are talking
like a democratic statesman. You are valuing the system of government that you
rejected in your guerrilla past. This seems to me to be a form of self-criticism.
President Mujica: Liberalism has the idea that democracy is its invention, that liberalism
had to come about for democracy to exist. In an Aymara village, this still goes on, they
make an annual reckoning and the village governor is chosen. Who said that this is not
a form of democracy? Democracy is old, very old; it is an attitude of manDemocracy
is an imminent attitude, but one that has always been in crisis with authoritarianism. So
democracy can never be considered to be finished or perfect, the end of history does
not exist, historical steps exist. Maybe today conditions are being created--thanks to
digital mass-communicationthat are going to foreshadow a kind of democracy that
today we cannot imagine.
The Economist: But today you are defending what you used to reject as bourgeois
democracy.
President Mujica: Of course I defend it. I defend it and I criticise it. What do I criticise?
That it promises a degree of equality that it does not fulfill in practice. This is why you
are in a very simple house of the Uruguayan President, who has the idea of sobriety as
a tool, and of republicanism because the majority of my people live like this. And if
democracy has to represent the majority, as a symbol I understand that those who have
the highest responsibilities should live as the majority does, not the minority.
We have become feudal and the monarchy has come back in a different form.
Presidentsthe red carpet, those who play cornets, vassals on the bridge, all this

paraphernalia which is not republican, because republics came into the world to reaffirm
this: that men are basically equal.
The Economist: Do you think that in the past five years Uruguayan society has become
less materialistic because of your example?
President Mujica: Society is immersed in a culture of consumerism, we are all
immersed, and it is difficult for society to see this. But there will come a time when
people have had enough. When people start to have a lot, they tend to run out of time to
be happy and then they begin to reassess the small things in life. Freedom has two
planes: one is of an individual kind, that to be free I have to have free time. If all of the
time I am working to produce things that I need to be able to consume it will be difficult
for me to be a free man.
The Economist: You are indeed giving Uruguayans an example of simplicity and
austerity. But do you believe that material progress is also needed for your people?
President Mujica: It is necessary, but it is much slower and more difficult because of the
number of things on which the consumer society causes us to squander energy. This is
a challenge for the world. I dont believe that there is an ecological crisis; I believe that
there is a crisis of governance. There are issues of world importance that need to be
addressed, that no one country can address alone. For example: man is destroying the
climate, but man also has the capacity and intelligence to reverse this trend.
I believe that the wealthiest should pay to eliminate world poverty and incorporate them
in consumption, but the consumption of useful things. Its a nonsense that we throw
away so much and we make useless things to throw away when there are women
walking 5 kilometers to fetch two pitchers of water. But there is nowhere to propose and
debate these things.

When I was in prison I would read Scientific American. I remember that people were
talking about taking advantage of the melting of Alaska to create a river between the
Rockies to bring sweet water to California and the Mexican desert. You know how much
it cost? The military budget of the US. I remember that people were also talking about
creating a sea in Siberia, in Stalins time they dreamed of this nonsense, then it was
impossible. Now, surely, it is possible. But global treaties are needed. A continent of
plastic bags is beginning to form in the Pacific. How are we going to challenge this
barbarity?
The Economist: How do you define yourself politically? As a socialist, utopian,
reformist, social democrat , leftist?
President Mujica: The philosophy of my heart is libertarian. I dont like the idea of the
exploitation of man by man. I believe that one day human civilization will overcome this
somehow. But that is not to say that I favour the state as the owner of everything, no,
no, no. I cant conceive of that. I lean a lot towards self-management, with all of the risks
it entails for any important institution. It is not exactly the state that should manage
things, its the people that have to manage them.
The Economist: But you are governing a market economy and a liberal democracy
President Mujica: Yes, and I have to make it run as well as possible.
The Economist: and you seem to be comfortable with that.
President Mujica: Of course, because the door is open to keep fighting to improve it
and to overcome the injustices it involves. The enormous advantage of democracy is

that it doesnt believe itself to be finished or perfect. And the second enormous
advantage of democracy concerns the possibility of peaceful coexistence, even when
people disagree, and that means to respect those who think differently. And this makes
society liveable. I think those are unshakeable values.
The Economist: And given these values, when you look at Cuba and Venezuela what
do you think?
President Mujica: That they have their challenges and their paths. Because I cannot
look only at those values, I have to look at the fact that peoples have the right to selfdetermination rather than be governed from outside. You gave me two examples that
are not very significant. The Muslim world is out there and has other codes. I can assure
you that I have nothing in common with those fat guys who cover themselves in jewels.
But what I am clear about is that they have their culture and I must respect it, which
does not mean that I am in agreement with it.
The Economist: There is a tension between respect for other cultures and some
universal values. In todays world and todays Latin America where there are many that
believe democracy is a universal value, are you
President Mujica: Democracy?
The Economist: Yes
President Mujica: Yes, but that doesnt mean our democracy. But if I were convinced
of the dictatorship of the proletariat and that democracy requires equality to be effective,
and that if equality is not assured, democracy does not existwe could debate this for
three days.
The Economist: Theres a permanent tension between freedom and equality, but
President Mujica: Both are difficult. Both have many challenges and chimeras. Because
equality is not egalitarianism. Nature spurns egalitarianism, nature makes similarities.
And I cant conceive of a Pol-Potian path to equality...
The Economist: Thats a relief. In Venezuela, there are many people
President Mujica: Venezuela is suffering the consequences of excessive polarization
and the tendency to reason in black and white: youre with me or against me. And this is
a consequence of the hate that polarization generates. I dont like that, its bad and
damaging.
The Economist: Many people believe you are the only person who might be accepted
by both sides as a mediator to reduce polarization and assure a democratic future for
Venezuela.
President Mujica: Look, mediating is one thing (pauses). What I can say (pauses). I will
always try to help in whatever part of the world, on principle, not to simulate conflict, not
to throw fuel on the fire and try to sow this idea: if we can work together on what we are
in agreement about, we will work well and fast. But if we spend our lives fighting about
over we are in disagreement about, life will pass us by.
The Economist: You were always atheist, no?
President Mujica: No, I was an altar boy when I was little. I belong to the Christian world
and I have political admiration for the Catholic Church. Political admiration why?
Because together with language, the Catholic tradition is what we Latin Americans have

in common. I realise were in a time when the image of the Catholic Church is not that
great, but there you have it, this is a terribly Catholic continent.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/americasview/2014/08/uruguay

http://upsidedownworld.org/archives/uruguay/an-interview-with-uruguays-jose-mujicafrom-armed-struggle-to-the-presidency/

CG: A few days ago I read a statement of yours: we will be at war

until Nature demands that we become civilized
JM: Yes, thats how were headed. Capitalism, like everything, is
contradictory. On the one hand, you have the injustice, the
inequality, the wars; but that selfishness we have inside is a
powerful motor, that has led to the development of science,
technology, and all that right? Capitalism has given us many a
scourge, but it gave us 40 more years of average lifespan in the last
century what do you make of it? Now it seems that its given all it
has to give; the logical step would be for democratic socialism to
replace it, but historical timeframes are long. Capitalism developed
during three centuries without any political democracy
CG: You often mention happiness in your speeches.
JM: Some people say that Im a poor President, but in reality I just
have a simple lifestyle. I get by with little, keep my bags light on
purpose, its a choice. Why? To have the free time and be able to
spend it on the things that truly motivate me. If I spend all my effort
making money, then Ill have to constantly run around anxiously
looking after it; worrying if someones going to steal from me here or
screw me over later and so on, and all the while Im taking time out
of my life time that you cant buy on things that dont motivate
me. For some maybe that is a motivation; there again, thats
freedom for them, there has to be a margin of free choice Im not
arguing for a State or a society where everything is regulated either:
you wear a coat and tie if you want, or wear just whatever you
like! Do as you wish, as long as you dont offend anyone Maybe
Im part anarchist after all
CG: Whats your dream, what projects left for you to accomplish?

JM: As long as were alive our dreams never end I have socialist
convictions, and I aspire to contribute towards an intelligent legacy,
with the kind of leaders that when they die, or at the end of their
government, the people and society are better off than they are
Because things drag out over time and a human life is short when
compared to the infinite tasks of the future, to create more just
societiesThose just societies dont result from spontaneous
generation; they require organized human willpower. To me thats
what is indispensable; its not the only thing, but without organized
human willpower, things wont get done, and then theres that
determinism
CG: You say you dont hate, but when you got out of prison, out of
the hole, you didnt hate then?
JM: No, I dont hate. Honestly if one has an understanding of the
class struggle in society, one knows that the dirty work that one
person does, even if they refused to do it someone else would,
because its a byproduct of the circumstances. Of course, there is
that greater or lesser degree of sadistic behavior each individual
contributes. But I also came to know interesting characters while in
prison soldiers that risked their neck to bring us a bowl of rations
or an apple. I saw officers that disagreed with the orders they
received Theres no black and white; there are always shades of
gray in between. But obviously, if Im a political or social militant, I
have to fight to gain power, to be able to implement structural
changes.
Today, the Left seems to believe that they should abandon or
substitute the struggle for power for a social agenda: marriage
equality, abortion, minority rights, the indigenous, feminism All
that is very good, and I support it, but the person of color who is
really damned is the poor one; the woman whos the greatest victim
of discrimination is the poor woman, overwhelmed, with too many
children living day to day; with the indigenous, its the same. Dont
try to camouflage or hide class differences with me.
http://upsidedownworld.org/archives/uruguay/an-interview-with-uruguays-jose-mujica-from-armedstruggle-to-the-presidency/

The international media have described him as "the most incredible politician"
or indeed "the best leader in the world". Some have suggested he should win
the next Nobel peace prize. He is also thought to be the world's poorest
president, because he gives almost 90% of his income to low-income housing
organisations. He is not very keen on such labels. "My definition of poverty is

the one we owe to Seneca: It is not the man who has too little, but the man
who craves more, who is poor."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/27/jose-mujica-uruguaymaverick-president
"I'm called 'the poorest president', but I don't feel poor. Poor people are those who only
work to try to keep an expensive lifestyle, and always want more and more," he says.
"This is a matter of freedom. If you don't have many possessions then you don't need to
work all your life like a slave to sustain them, and therefore you have more time for
yourself," he says.
"I may appear to be an eccentric old man... But this is a free choice."
The Uruguayan leader made a similar point when he addressed the Rio+20 summit in
June this year: "We've been talking all afternoon about sustainable development. To get
the masses out of poverty.
"But what are we thinking? Do we want the model of development and consumption of
the rich countries? I ask you now: what would happen to this planet if Indians would
have the same proportion of cars per household than Germans? How much oxygen
would we have left?
"Does this planet have enough resources so seven or eight billion can have the same
level of consumption and waste that today is seen in rich societies? It is this level of
hyper-consumption that is harming our planet."
Mujica accuses most world leaders of having a "blind obsession to achieve growth with
consumption, as if the contrary would mean the end of the world".

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20243493

We promise a life of consuming and squandering. But this is a

countdown against nature, against future humankind, Mujica
thundered. It is a civilization against simplicity, against sobriety,
against all natural cycles, and against the most important things:
Adventure. Solidarity. Family. Friendship. Love The crisis is really
the powerlessness of politics ... But today, its time to begin to fight.
https://newrepublic.com/article/120912/uruguays-jose-mujica-was-liberalsdream-too-good-be-true

In a fiery speech before the UN General Assembly, Uruguayan president Jose Mujica
criticized consumerism and waste, electronic surveillance which poisons relations
among nations, called for a true globalization and blasted individual greed which has
far outstripped the superior greed of the human specie.
In his forty minutes intervention Mujica also said that politics that should rule human
relations had succumbed to economics and has become a mere administrator of what
the financial system does not control, and more specifically on Uruguay which abides by
UN rules and is the main contributor per capita of peace keeping forces, we are always
in the places which are assigned to us, however in the big table where resources are
decided, we dont exist not even to cater a cup of coffee.
Mujica pointed out that we have flattened the true jungles and implanted those of
cement and recalled that what really transcend are love, friendship, solidarity and the
family and thus what must be determinant is life and not accumulation, the direct
consequence of rampant consumerism.
Mujica who presented himself as a man who had come from the south, over and over
attacked consumerism, accumulation in a globalized society which does not care about
the human being or life
I come from the south and as such I carry the burden of the millions of my fellow
continent people in the cities, in the hills, in the pampas, in the deserts and in the skid
roads of Latinamerica.
I come from the south and I come to this assembly with the burden of electronic
surveillance, which only sows mistrust and poison, insisted Mujica in clear reference to
the cyber-spaying system mounted by the US to keep track of several Latinamerican
countries affairs and of their governments, and even private corporations, such as
claimed in Brazil.
I come from the south and with the duty to struggle for a large motherland for all and for
Colombia to find its path to peace. With the command of fighting for tolerance said
Mujica who at the same time regretted humanity has sacrificed the old immaterial gods
while the temple is taken over by God market.
It all seems we were born to consume, consume and consume and when we cant, we
are loaded with frustration, with poverty and self exclusion.
We are proposing a life of waste and squandering which in reality is a regressive bill. A
civilization against simplicity, against society, against all nature cycles, and even worse
a civilization against freedom which means having free time to enjoy human relations
and only transcendent: love, friendship, adventure, solidarity and family.
The little man of our days, faithfully every day to his job, to his office, consuming,
consuming, spending with plastic, with credit, with instalments, hoping for vacations and

never enjoying true life, and when he dies, with his funeral service in instalments, he is
replaced by another little man with the same mind-frame.
Mujica said the world desperately needs global legislation that respects the
achievements and advances of science, and with science and the art of politics, the
world should be ruled, not by the cusp of finance which promotes accumulation and
credit for more accumulation.
And this will go on with wars and fanatics, and fundamentalists, until maybe nature
calls on us into order and makes our civilization unviable.
In effect while humans live in a climate of war they will be in pre-historic times thus so
important our modest contribution but also our duty to help Colombia find the path of
peace.
Let us not get distracted tinkering with consequences, let us think in the real causes, in
the civilization of waste and squandering that only wastes life. Let us concentrate that
human life is a miracle, that there is nothing more valuable than life. And that our
biological duty is above all respect for life, to boost it and understand that we are the
specie, its us.
Finally the Uruguayan leader said that the species should have a government for the
whole of humanity above individualisms and that it struggles for the recreation of
political heads, because as things are instead of governing globalization, globalization
is ruling over us, which is also evidence of the failure or lack of politics.

http://en.mercopress.com/2013/09/25/mujica-blasted-consumerism-andcalled-for-political-heads-to-rule-the-globalized-world
http://www.cct-seecity.com/en/2014/01/sulla-felicita-umana-la-teoria-dijose-pepe-mujica/ TOT
KALLE LASN
http://www.satyamag.com/may05/lasn.html
http://thesunmagazine.org/issues/307/truth_in_advertising?page=2
http://www.allthingshealing.com/Consumerism/Truth-in-AdvertisingBreaking-the-Spell-of-Consumerism-An-Interview-with-KalleLasn/6678#.WHI5yvlEnIV
https://depts.washington.edu/gcp/pdf/culturejamsandmemewarfare.pdf