Documenti di Didattica
Documenti di Professioni
Documenti di Cultura
No. 2:08-cr-00427
ALEXANDER POPOV,
RAMANATHAN PRAKASH, LANA
LE CHABRIER,
Defendants.
Reported by:
APPEARANCES
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SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA
PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT
---oOo---
DERRICK JOHNSON,
sworn by the Clerk to tell the truth, the whole truth, and
MR. RICHARDS:
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THE CLERK:
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MR. RICHARDS:
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Yes.
I'd like to mark as Defense 806 and
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THE COURT:
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Yes.
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CROSS-EXAMINATION
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BY MR. RICHARDS:
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Q.
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plea agreement.
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A.
Yes, it is.
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Q.
Okay.
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of facts there.
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A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
No.
Q.
A.
Yes.
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Q.
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that?
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
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Thanks.
Okay.
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A.
No.
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Q.
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are facts that the Government put together that you ended up
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signing, correct?
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A.
I presume, yes.
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MR. FERRARI:
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THE COURT:
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Q.
Objection.
Foundation.
Sustained.
BY MR. RICHARDS:
A.
No.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
10
the plea agreement, and then you signed the plea agreement,
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correct?
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A.
Right.
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Q.
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A.
That's correct.
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Q.
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did you ask Max for a list of the doctors so you could verify
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A.
I never did.
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Q.
All right.
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A.
That's correct.
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Q.
A.
Bellevue.
Q.
A.
I'm not.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
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Q.
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A.
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It's 3:00.
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you.
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(Jury out.)
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(Break taken.)
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(Jury in.)
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THE COURT:
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Q.
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page, please.
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A.
Thank
Proceed, please.
BY MR. RICHARDS:
Thank you.
Sorry.
Q.
see that?
A.
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5
Do you
Yes.
MR. RICHARDS:
It's
MR. FERRARI:
that.
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THE COURT:
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MR. MOSS:
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objecting to it.
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MR. KAROWSKY:
Nor am I.
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MR. FERRARI:
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THE COURT:
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MR. RICHARDS:
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Thank you.
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Q.
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your personal knowledge or what your lawyer gave you that the
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Government wrote.
BY MR. RICHARDS:
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THE CLERK:
Yes.
Q.
BY MR. RICHARDS:
All right.
Thanks.
A.
Q.
(Reading):
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benefit program.
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A.
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Q.
Okay.
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beginning date and the ending date, those were just given to
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you, correct?
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
(Reading):
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California.
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correct?
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A.
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Q.
A.
No, I do not.
Q.
All right.
with it.
(Reading):
Khachatur Arutunyan.
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did you?
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A.
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
(Reading):
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A.
No, I do not.
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Q.
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A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
Thank you.
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No, I do not.
(Reading):
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correct?
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A.
I was hired.
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Q.
Right.
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hired, correct?
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A.
No, I do not.
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Q.
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plea agreement that your attorney gave you that you signed,
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right?
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A.
That's correct.
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Q.
(Reading):
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Dr. Johnson and Dr. Le Chabrier both opened bank accounts for
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Right.
Q.
correct?
A.
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Correct.
MR. FERRARI:
Objection.
Relevance.
THE COURT:
THE COURT:
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plea.
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He
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doesn't know.
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him because he's under oath, and he's saying things about a
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MR. FERRARI:
And I
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Warriner.
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THE COURT:
Mr. Warriner.
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THE COURT:
Tim
Thank you.
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I'm concerned about your client being on the stand under oath.
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And I don't know where this is going, but it sounds like he may
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He's saying
MR. FERRARI:
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point on that.
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his knowledge that these things are true, and the Government
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MR. WARRINER:
This is
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trial.
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THE COURT:
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is going to go.
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put into evidence and where we're going to go through each and
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I don't know.
MR. FERRARI:
objection.
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I don't understand.
MR. RICHARDS:
I don't --
MR. FERRARI:
Talking
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THE COURT:
MS. HOBLER:
conjunction with his oath, took that and agreed that all of
by the Government.
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the defendants here, and I don't know that it's at all that
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road --
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MR. RICHARDS:
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tell the Government before, but I can tell you that this is
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legitimate cross-examination.
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this doctor knew and didn't know when he was part of this
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scheme.
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THE COURT:
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MR. KAROWSKY:
I can
Mr. Karowsky.
Your Honor, first of all, I have no
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And
think that when the Court goes through its own plea colloquy --
and I'm certainly not going to put words in this Court's mouth
That's my understanding.
Have you
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MR. FERRARI:
Every
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MR. KAROWSKY:
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THE COURT:
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going and where it's heading and before we get too far down the
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road.
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And I can't unring this bell right now with this jury.
I want to find out where this is going and what
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name on it and other names here, that have been sworn under
Confrontation issue.
Defense?
MR. MOSS:
THE COURT:
MR. RICHARDS:
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Yes.
Waiving all these issues?
I'm just going through the statements
MR. FERRARI:
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MR. RICHARDS:
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MR. FERRARI:
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MR. RICHARDS:
Who?
You.
The plea agreement's in evidence.
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didn't know.
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past that.
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factual basis.
MR. FERRARI:
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MR. RICHARDS:
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that this group was using didn't communicate with each other.
MR. FERRARI:
You
MR. RICHARDS:
cross-examination?
THE COURT:
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MR. RICHARDS:
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to credibility --
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MR. WARRINGER:
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THE COURT:
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THE COURT:
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because you're now taking this jury into an area that can be
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totally confusing.
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of time.
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Q.
A.
Q.
your understanding?
A.
I believe so.
Q.
Yes.
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A.
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Q.
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
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you said you read this plea agreement and carefully reviewed
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other promises have been made -- you testified about some other
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A.
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Q.
Is that
Pursuant to 5K1.1?
In this, you mean?
Okay.
A.
yes.
Q.
No.
A.
No.
Q.
A.
No.
Q.
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A.
No.
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Q.
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A.
I don't know.
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Q.
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started there, you said you didn't recognize there was fraud,
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correct?
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A.
Right.
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Q.
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at?
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A.
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Q.
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A.
All right.
No.
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Q.
Lafayette clinic was the first clinic that you had experienced
A.
Yes.
Q.
that?
Do you see
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A.
I'm looking.
I see it.
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Q.
All right.
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A.
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five.
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Q.
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money?
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
A few times.
Less than
All right.
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yet, correct?
A.
No.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
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Clinic?
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A.
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case.
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Q.
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correct?
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A.
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Q.
Okay.
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MR. FERRARI:
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THE COURT:
Objection.
Argumentative.
Sustained.
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Q.
BY MR. RICHARDS:
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ever, correct?
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A.
That's correct.
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Q.
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offense?
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A.
No, I do not.
Q.
Max.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
money was coming from Medicare to the bank account for the
Q.
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A.
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Q.
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A.
No.
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
Okay.
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you a run?
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A.
What's --
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Q.
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A.
Q.
she?
A.
I did.
Q.
All right.
A.
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Q.
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A.
I do not.
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Q.
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clinic, right?
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A.
Yes, I did.
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Q.
And you don't know -- you don't have any idea -- let
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me strike that.
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No.
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A.
Charts?
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Q.
Charts, yes.
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
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A.
Not exactly.
Q.
But you said you did spend some time looking through
the charts?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
number, so you wanted to see the tests and findings that were
A.
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looked at the results to try and make sure that they made
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sense.
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
And if you wanted to, you could have told Max, "I
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right?
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A.
Sorta no.
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
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But you just didn't close your eyes and blindly sign,
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A.
I'm an adult.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
That's correct.
Q.
And when you went to the -- when you did the Medicare
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run, do you remember how much charges were being billed under
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A.
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
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for him to get to know you and you to get to know him?
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
But when you met -- when you met Max the first time
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A.
No.
Q.
Medicare?
A.
Q.
A.
but I didn't go in and say "I offer to help you with this
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crime."
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represented.
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Q.
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A.
No.
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Q.
Did you represent that you had worked -- did you tell
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Max you had worked at a prior clinic where they did basically
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A.
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The gentlemen that took me out there, the people I knew had had
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about me.
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Q.
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It wasn't discussed.
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A.
Q.
you were being introduced as the type of doctor that would play
ball, right?
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MR. FERRARI:
Argumentative.
Calls for
speculation.
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Objection.
THE COURT:
Q.
Sustained.
BY MR. RICHARDS:
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A.
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number.
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Q.
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A.
I'm sorry.
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Q.
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told me you talked about the fact that you were going to get
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A.
Right.
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Q.
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that meeting with respect to how you would earn the 15 percent?
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A.
I don't understand.
No.
Q.
A.
nursing home, and I was taken back there after the meeting.
And the two doctors that I mentioned that I knew, who were
Q.
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I didn't have
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you?
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A.
12
Q.
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
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A.
No.
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Q.
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Max?
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A.
No.
Q.
How much money did you make from Max during the time
A.
I don't know.
Q.
A.
Q.
fair to say?
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A.
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
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you ever meet anybody else that was involved in the criminal
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A.
Yes.
20
Q.
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A.
22
a guy with him one time when he brought charts that I was told
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24
25
Q.
A gentleman -- he brought
A younger guy.
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of the people in this were kept secret from you, is that a fair
statement?
A.
care facility.
Q.
A.
I guess.
I didn't go
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Q.
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12
A.
13
Q.
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A.
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17
Q.
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A.
19
Q.
Did you and Max -- when you closed the bank account
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A.
Yes, he was.
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Q.
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A.
Oh, no.
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Q.
No?
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A.
No.
I wasn't
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Q.
A.
Q.
A.
No.
Q.
10
A.
11
Q.
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
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15
A.
No.
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Q.
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A.
18
Q.
Okay.
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A.
No.
20
Q.
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A.
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working.
Yes.
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Q.
When did you first find out that the Government was
A.
Q.
A.
Sort of.
Q.
A.
No.
Q.
10
unfair to say you never heard from Max again after he got mad
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12
A.
13
14
Q.
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right?
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A.
That's correct.
18
Q.
19
other doctors' notes in the file, did you ever ask Max if you
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A.
No, I didn't.
22
Q.
23
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A.
Q.
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forgeries.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
10
Q.
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12
A.
Somebody did.
13
Q.
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MR. FERRARI:
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THE COURT:
Objection.
Vague.
Sustained.
17
Q.
BY MR. RICHARDS:
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19
A.
In a way, yes.
20
Q.
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22
A.
23
trying to answer your question -- but once you lie down with
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25
Q.
Yeah.
Yeah.
In a way, no.
33
about the fact that you looked at these charts and that you saw
Strike that.
that was going to be impossible for you to ever verify, for you
A.
That's correct.
10
Q.
11
do you?
12
A.
No.
13
Q.
All right.
14
15
doctor involved in this case had knowledge there was some fraud
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17
A.
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No.
And you're not in any way suggesting
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MR. RICHARDS:
20
Thank you.
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34
CERTIFICATION
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above-entitled matter.
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