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modelling in sap200014

www.sefindia.orgForumIndex>SEFIGeneralDiscussion
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Author
ali.pendhari@gmail.com
SEFIMember

Joined:02Mar2012
Posts:2

Message
Posted:SunMar18,201212:26pmPostsubject:modellinginsap200014

Respectedall,Iamstudentofm.techstructuresoiamhavingdoubtsinsoftwaresap2000ishowto
modelcrackedsectionanduncrackedsection.igotthenotesfromtutorialofsap2000butinthattheynot
mentionedthedetailedproceduretomodelthecrackedanduncrackedsectionpleasehelpmeandalsohelp
metheoreticallywhatisthedifferencebetweendesignofcrackedanduncrackedsection.
thankyou

MohammedaliPendhari
studentM.techStructure
PostedviaEmail

Backtotop
VPandya

GeneralSponsor

Posted:TueMar20,20124:50pmPostsubject:UseACI31811section8.8.1and8.8.2forCrackProperti
DearPendhari,
Icanhelpyouwiththisproblemof"CONCRETECRACKEDSECTIONPROPERTIES"tobeusedinConcreteFrameAnalysis
inSTAAD/PROorSAP2000.RecentlyImyselfrunintothisproblemwhilereviewingafellowEngineersConcreteFrame
AnalysisandDesign.ThisFrameAnalysisandDesignforanInternationalProjectwasbasedon
ACI31805.PropertiesofConcreteFrameanalysiswerebasedonGrossSection(Ig=1/12Xbxd**3)andnoton
reducedpropertiesofACI31805section
10.11.1.Thiswascorrectedlater.Anewanalysisanddesignwasdone.
PointistherestillexistsomeconfusionformanyengineersonInternationalProjectsastohowtomeetrequirementsof

Joined:09Nov2009
Posts:538
Location:Ahmedabad

ACI318codeforConcreteFrameAnalysis.WhatistheintentofACI31811Section8.7,8.8.1and8.8.2.?
HereismyunderstandingofConcreteCrackedSectionPropertiesbasedonACI31811Section8.8.1and8.8.2(a).
CrackedSectionpropertiesfromSection10.10.4.1:
ModulusofElasticityEc=Ecsection8.5.1(Noreduction)
MomentofInertiaofColumns(IyyandIzz)=0.7Ig(Ig=GrossIg=1//12bd**3)
NoreductioninIxx(Torsion)andAx,AY,AZ
MomentofInertiaofBeams(IyyandIzz)=0.35Ig(Ig=GrossIg=1//112bd**3)
NoreductioninIxx(Torsion)andAx,AY,AZ

Therearetwoseperateanalysisyouwillbedoingofyour3DConcreteFrame:
1)AtServiceLoadCombinations:ForFrameDrift,MemberDeflectionsandFoundationPressures(SoilBearing
Stress):Basedonsection8.8.1:
a)ForColumnsUseIyyandIzz=1.4X0.7Ig=0.98Ig=Ig(atServiceLoad
combinationsyoucanuseIg(uncracked)forColumns.
b)ForBeams(Flexure)UseIyyandIzz=1.4X0.35Ig=0.49Ig(say0.5Igor50%of
grossMomentofInertiaforbeams.ThinkofthisevenatServiceLoadsanalysis
ACICodewantsyouuseonly50%IgforBeamsinFrameAnalysis.Thiswill
changeyourframeDrift,MemberDeflectionsandmayimpactyourFrameMember
SizestogettotheallowableDrift,MemberDeflectionsValues.STAAD/PROTech.
ReferenceManualSection3.3hasthesamevaluesofConcreteCrackedSection

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2/9/2016

www.sefindia.org::Viewtopicmodellinginsap200014
PropertiesforBeams(50%Ig)formanyyears.
2)AtFactoredLoadCombinations:ForMemberDesignForcesandReinforcement
Design.
a)ForColumnsuseIyyandIzz=0.7Ig
NoreductioninIxx(Torsion)andAx,AY,AZ
b)ForBeams(Flexure)useIyyandIzz=0.35Ig
NoreductioninIxx(Torsion)andAx,AY,AZ
IfyouwantCodealsoallowsyoutouseIyyandIzz=0.5IgforbothColumns
andBeamsbasedonsection8.8.2(b).
PointisusingGrossMomentofInertiaIgforConcreteFrameAnalysisatFactored
LoadCombinationsissimplywrong.Someofusengineersstillhavenotcoughtup
withthischangeanduseGrossMomentOfInertias(Ig)forbeamsatServiceLoadandFactoredLoads.BasedonACI318
Codewecannotandshouldnotdothat.
Ihopethisanswersyourquestion.
Regards.
VasudeoPandya

Backtotop
VPandya

GeneralSponsor

Posted:TueMar20,20125:11pmPostsubject:modellinginsap200014.UseACI31811Section8.7,8.8.

Somecorrections.
VasudeoPandya

From:vasudeopandya@hotmail.com
To:econf@sefindia.org

Joined:09Nov2009
Posts:538
Location:Ahmedabad

Subject:RE:[ECONF]modellinginsap200014.UseACI31811Section8.7,8.8.1,8.8.2forConcreteCracked
Sections.
Date:Tue,20Mar201217:05:14+0000
.ExternalClass.ecxhmmessageP{padding:0px}.ExternalClassbody.ecxhmmessage{fontsize:10ptfont
family:Tahoma}DearPendhari,
Icanhelpyouwiththisproblemof"CONCRETECRACKEDSECTIONPROPERTIES"tobeusedinConcreteFrame
AnalysisinSTAAD/PROorSAP2000.RecentlyImyselfrunintothisproblemwhilereviewingafellowEngineers
ConcreteFrameAnalysisandDesign.ThisFrameAnalysisandDesignforanInternationalProjectwasbasedon
ACI31805.PropertiesofConcreteFrameanalysiswerebasedonGrossSection(Ig=1/12Xbxd**3)andnoton
reducedpropertiesofACI31805section10.11.1.Thiswascorrectedlater.Anewanalysisanddesignwasdone.
PointistherestillexistsomeconfusionformanyengineersonInternationalProjectsastohowtomeet
requirementsofACI318codeforConcreteFrameAnalysis.WhatistheintentofACI31811Section8.7,8.8.1
and8.8.2.?
HereismyunderstandingofConcreteCrackedSectionPropertiesbasedonACI31811Section8.8.1and8.8.2
(a).
CrackedSectionpropertiesfromSection10.10.4.1:
ModulusofElasticityEc=Ecsection8.5.1(Noreduction)
MomentofInertiaofColumns(IyyandIzz)=0.7Ig(Ig=GrossIg=1/12xbd**3)
NoreductioninIxx(Torsion)andAx,AY,AZ
MomentofInertiaofBeams(IyyandIzz)=0.35Ig(Ig=GrossIg=1/12xbd**3)
NoreductioninIxx(Torsion)andAx,AY,AZ

Therearetwoseperateanalysisyouwillbedoingofyour3DConcreteFrame:
1)AtServiceLoadCombinations:ForFrameDrift,MemberDeflectionsandFoundationPressures(SoilBearing
Stress):Basedonsection8.8.1:
a)ForColumnsUseIyyandIzz=1.4X0.7Ig=0.98Ig=Ig(atServiceLoad
combinationsyoucanuseIg(uncracked)forColumns.

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2/9/2016

www.sefindia.org::Viewtopicmodellinginsap200014
b)ForBeams(Flexure)UseIyyandIzz=1.4X0.35Ig=0.49Ig(say0.5Igor50%of
grossMomentofInertiaforbeams.ThinkofthisevenatServiceLoadsanalysis
ACICodewantsyouuseonly50%IgforBeamsinFrameAnalysis.Thiswill
changeyourframeDrift,MemberDeflectionsandmayimpactyourFrameMember
SizestogettotheallowableDrift,MemberDeflectionsValues.STAAD/PROTech.
ReferenceManualSection3.3hasthesamevaluesofConcreteCrackedSection
PropertiesforBeams(50%Ig)formanyyears.
2)AtFactoredLoadCombinations:ForMemberDesignForcesandReinforcement
Design.
a)ForColumnsuseIyyandIzz=0.7Ig
NoreductioninIxx(Torsion)andAx,AY,AZ
b)ForBeams(Flexure)useIyyandIzz=0.35Ig
NoreductioninIxx(Torsion)andAx,AY,AZ
IfyouwantCodealsoallowsyoutouseIyyandIzz=0.5IgforbothColumns
andBeamsbasedonsection8.8.2(b).
PointisusingGrossMomentofInertiaIgforConcreteFrameAnalysisatFactoredLoadCombinationsissimply
wrong.SomeofusengineersstillhavenotcoughtupwiththischangeanduseGrossMomentOfInertias(Ig)for
beamsatServiceLoadandFactoredLoads.BasedonACI318Codewecannotandshouldnotdothat.
Ihopethisanswersyourquestion.
Regards.
VasudeoPandya

Subject:[ECONF]modellinginsap200014
From:forum@sefindia.org
Date:Tue,20Mar201209:57:16+0530
To:econf@sefindia.org
Respectedall,Iamstudentofm.techstructuresoiamhavingdoubtsinsoftwaresap2000ishowtomodel
crackedsectionanduncrackedsection.igotthenotesfromtutorialofsap2000butinthattheynotmentioned
thedetailedproceduretomodelthecrackedanduncrackedsectionpleasehelpmeandalsohelpmetheoretically
whatisthedifferencebetweendesignofcrackedanduncrackedsection.
thankyou

MohammedaliPendhari
studentM.techStructure
PostedviaEmail
Backtotop
rahul.leslie

GeneralSponsor

Posted:ThuMar22,20124:07pmPostsubject:

DearVasudeoPandya,
Thatwasnice...veryinformativeincapsuleform.Thanks
RahulLeslie

Joined:01Apr2008
Posts:451
Location:Trivandrum

Backtotop
Engineer

SEFIMember

Posted:FriMar23,20122:06pmPostsubject:modellinginsap200014

MohammedaliPendhari
Joined:28Jun2010
Posts:10

SAP2000hasoptiontomodifysectionproperties,OnceYouGivet3andt2dimensions,softwarewillcompute
geometricalparameterslikearea,momentofinertia,torsionconstant,shearareaetc.

Youcannowspecifymodificationfactorstothisproperties.

http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=45473

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2/9/2016

www.sefindia.org::Viewtopicmodellinginsap200014

ForBeamCrackedMomentofInertiais0.5timesGrossMomentofInertia(Uncracked),i.eModificationfactorof
I33inSAPwillbe0.5,similarlyforcolumnsthefactoris0.7.(SeeUBC97)

Hopeaboveanswersyourqueery.

Regards,
Hemant,gorhemant@G

From:alipendhari(forum@sefindia.org)
Sent:Tuesday,March20,20128:27AM
To:econf@sefindia.org(econf@sefindia.org)
Subject:[ECONF]modellinginsap200014

Respectedall,Iamstudentofm.techstructuresoiamhavingdoubtsinsoftwaresap2000ishowtomodel
crackedsectionanduncrackedsection.igotthenotesfromtutorialofsap2000butinthattheynotmentioned
thedetailedproceduretomodelthecrackedanduncrackedsectionpleasehelpmeandalsohelpmetheoretically
whatisthedifferencebetweendesignofcrackedanduncrackedsection.
thankyou

MohammedaliPendhari
studentM.techStructure
PostedviaEmail

Backtotop

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