What is awakening, liberaton, moksah, or

enlightenment?
An interview with J. Mahaprana
http://www.nobodymind.com

"Awakening is not an experience yet it must be experienced"

Queston: After many years of being a spiritual seeker, there was a specific
experience that was more profound?
Jay: I have to say it wasnt really an experience. My description may sound
like I am describing some point in time, or some specific experience, but this
is the limitation of language and trying to talk about what cannot be talked
about, so youve put me in a corner! So Ill do my best knowing that I cannot
describe it at all.
This event was beyond space and time and therefore not an event. It
simultaneously seemed like mere seconds and several lifetimes. I dont
remember what I had been doing in the morning, but I was home alone that
day and at some point around lunch time I decided to watch a bit of television
and cuddle with my dog. At the time, I allowed myself 30 minutes of news per
day. Its funny looking back that this is how my life wasimposing limits. It
wasnt freedom at all. But at any rate, on that day, I was sitting in my
underwear and a t-shirt- which just goes to show it doesnt happen how we
expect it to! I propped my feet up, flipped the television on, and then noticed
I wasnt drawn to the TV. My attention moved inward and then, nothing for
how long I have no idea.
I find this part most difficult to describe, but this is my best effort: eyes
opened, body witnessed. It moved. No thought, it just moved. Hand moved!
But I couldnt remember what hand was called. And then it didnt move. No
thought, nothing moved, and then sudden laughter. Tears of gratitude. I
couldnt tell if I was laughing or crying, actually. On the floor, this laughing
and the simplicity: I am not this body, it just happens. Just when the laughter
stops, it returns. Between fits of laughter, a quiet bliss and joy. The body
starts moving toward the bathroom to pee and this movement is witnessed
without thought. There was this wonder that was like, Whats going to
happen?, but it wasnt thought. On the way to the toilet, something saw
itself in the mirror and more tears and great laughter erupted. Love came
from the eyes. For days, the mirror was a laughter trigger. These days are a

blur, but to my amazement I was doing just fine with daily life. I worked and
interacted with people just as before, but between any need for activity, pure
silence. The laughter did go on for quite a few days, but lessened and was
completely indescribable.
Q: So was this the no body realization?
Jay: I suppose you could say that, but it was much more than that too. Simply
stated, I would say yes, that this had much more to do with the body. But at
the same time, in those first few days, thoughts could not touch me. I
perceived some force field of love and grace that was protecting from
thoughts, with me in the center as Nothing. I didnt even inquire as to what
this force was because it was a blessing, a protection, allowing me to stay
just as I was. Joy remained, but I suddenly became curious about this force of
Grace. Is it me? Is this what I am? I wanted it to stay forever and just as this
desire came, the force disappeared. I thought, Oh no, what have I done!?
Fear and courage came simultaneously. The ego-mind came in full attack
mode, sensing the barrier was down.
I recognized this moment as where I lost it began with previous
experiences. The fear said, You are about to lose it. Then a much more
subtle force, if I can even call it that, came: I will not move. Let the mind
come. I was prepared for a war and the ego-mind brought a war. The mind
thew up every past story that had worked: Youve hurt people Youve lied
You are angry. I wont tell the stories because they are not important, but I
can say the egos last stand was to use guilt about anything and everything. I
let these thoughts and stories come and they were burned up. I want to say
they burned up in me, but the me was being burned up as well. I felt as
though I was on fire, but without the I. After the burning, I am nothing at all,
without barriers or boundaries. Thoughts had no place to land. Only the
purest joy remained.
Q: Looking back now, how do you see all of this?
Jay: Its hard to talk about looking back because its all now. This experience
wasnt in time, didnt end and continues to unfold. And it didnt happen the
way I told it at all- sorry! The best I can say is its still happening, and nothing
ever happened. (everyone laughing). OK, Ill give you something more
concrete to chew on. I can tell your minds want more (more laughing)
What I call a force that was stopping the thoughts was a very kind Grace that
gave space for pure silence. It felt divine, like a blessing. That same force
dropping away or disappearing was also Grace, but a fierce Grace. Both were
necessary and both were Grace. This fierce Grace I later recognized as the
meaning of Jesus being tested by the devil and the Buddha being harrassed
by Mara: its the minds last stand and it does not play nice in the end. But

since this fierceness of Grace, no thought has disturbed who I am. In the end,
this was the no mind part. I actually dont know how it ever happened that
thoughts led to suffering-its a complete mystery. Ive tried to contemplate it
so I could show it more clearly, but whatever the relationship between
thoughts and suffering, its gone. Ive tried to recreate it so I can tell you, but
I cant. Sorry. (everyone laughing)
Q: Do you consider this essential?
Jay: Yes, and at the same time, I have to say, you cant do it. It cant be
done. The person does not awaken, but your true Self alone remains after
the dream of being a person comes to an end. But yes, it was essential to see
that thoughts have no power over the Self. The seeker disappeared
completely. Nothing observed causes happiness or misery. Obsessiveness
disapeared, whether for enlgihtenment, happiness more money or more of
anything- just gone. I didnt gain anything, I just lost everything that was
never Real. Life is all joy, always, and I am life just living itself.
Q: Hearing you talk about that experience, or non-experience, was
mesmerizing. At the same time, I can see why you dont like talking about it.
Jay: Right, it can cause people confusion. I can only say, do not waste any
time comparing yourself to anyones story. Thats true about daily life and
waking up. Do not waste even a second comparing. Ramana Maharishi has
one of the most beautiful and profound awakening stories, and at the same
time, that story has caused a lot of confusion because from the ego-minds
point of view, no one can live up to that. But the awareness in Maharishi is
one awareness. It wasnt his awareness and it will never be your awareness.
Absolute awareness is who you are. Dont doubt it. Instead of comparing, just
be being. Be awareness. Practice the presence. This is the practice before
awakening and after awakening, so there is no where to go. Theres no
confusion in this.
The complete interview can be read at: http://www.nobodymind.com/aboutspiritual-awakening-liberation/