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Sanatana Dharma
God in Hindu Dharma
Idol worshipping

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1. 15 November 2006, 08:36 PM #1

vcindiana
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Idol worshipping
Why do Hindus have to worship Idols ? It appears Hindus have created Gods
made out of metal, wood rock etc. How one can reduce all loving powerful God
into a piece of metal? How can God sit within a temple like a jailed criminal?
People argue that it is only a symbol, how can we make God into something like
symbol? People go crazy about the idols, create glitzy temples, pour ridiculous
money on jewelery and also create politics as to which idol they need to be
worshipping . Even catholics worship idol Mary! Worshipping just the Cross is
equally bad, real christ followers do not do that. There appears onething good in
Islam that is not having an idol but its very religiousness that I cannot stand. Care
to comment?
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2. 16 November 2006, 09:04 AM #2

orlando
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Re: Idol worshipping

Originally Posted by vcindiana
Why do Hindus have to worship Idols ? It appears Hindus have created Gods
made out of metal, wood rock etc. How one can reduce all loving powerful God
into a piece of metal? How can God sit within a temple like a jailed criminal?
People argue that it is only a symbol, how can we make God into something like
symbol?
Namaste.
Hindus worship statues because Hindu religion accept the statues worshipping.
And God Him-self requests His devotes to worship His statues and symbols.
Now I will quote the whole chapter 27 of Bhagavata Purana.In this chapter Lord
Krishna/Vishnu is talking to His friend Uddhava.
By http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/down...m-canto11.html
Chapter 27
On Respecting the Form of God
(1) S'r Uddhava said: 'Please explain the yoga of the service of You as a deity,
o Master; who is of that worship, to what form is one of worship and in what
manner does one worship You, o Master of the Stvatas [see also mrti and
11.3: 48-55]? (2) The sages Nrada, Bhagavn Vysa and my preceptor the
son of Angir [Brihaspati] repeatedly say that there is nothing more conducive to

welfare. (3-4) From Your lotus mouth emanated that of which the great lord
unborn spoke to his sons headed by Bhrigu, to the goddess [Prvat] and the
great lord S'iva [see B.G. 3: 9-10]; this [working for the purpose of sacrifice]
indeed approved by all classes and spiritual orders of society, I think, is the most
fortunate way for [even, or to deal with] women and the working class, o
Magnanimous One. (5) O Lord with the Lotus Eyes, please, o Controller of All
Controllers in the Universe, speak to your bhakta so full of attachment of the
means of liberation from the being bound to karma.'
(6) The Supreme Lord said: 'There is indeed no end to the innumerable
prescriptions for acting in yoga [see e.g. B.G. 1-6]; so, Uddhava, let me in brief
explain it nicely one step at a time. (7) One should properly be of worship by
choosing for one of the three kinds of processes to sacrifice: to the three of the
Veda, the explanatory literatures [tantras like the pacartra] and a combination
of them. (8) Please hear with faith in what way a person, who to the for him
relevant sacred precepts[*] achieved the status of a second birth, with devotion
should be of worship for Me. (9) With the necessary material must he, connected
in bhakti, free from ulterior motives worship Me, his worshipable guru, in an
image, an altar, a fire, the sun, the water or in the twiceborn heart itself [**]. (10)
To the two kinds of purification one should first should bathe and brush one's
teeth and secondly bathe in mantras with the application of clay and such [see
tilaka, kavaca and 6.8: 3-10]. (11) Of ceremonial respect and such at the three
junctures of the day performing duties as recommended by the Vedas [see also
11.14: 35], should he who is perfectly fixed in his determination by these
activities perform My ritual worship [pj] that eradicates the karma.
(12) The figure is remembered in eight different ways: in stone, wood, metal,
smearable substances [like clay], being painted, in sand, in jewels and as an image
kept in the mind. (13) The individual form thus of two varieties - subject and not
subject to change - does, in a temple installed for permanent, o Uddhava, not have
to be called forth (vdana) or sent away (udvsa). (14) Temporarily installed
is that optional, but assigned a fixed place [as in sand] do these two occur; not of a
smearable substance [or of paint or wood] is it washed but in other cases it is
cleansed without water. (15) There is My worship of the different forms with
excellent paraphernalia and the worship of a devotee free from material desire
using whatever that's readily available, as well as certainly the worship in the
heart by what was mentally conceived.
(16-18) Customary bathing and decorating is most appreciated for an idol [in the
temple], Uddhava, for an altar is that an exercise of respect in mantra's [tattvavinysa] and for the fire are oblations [of sesame, barley etc.] drenched in ghee
considered the best. For the sun is that a respectful greeting with a meditation in
sanas [see srya-namskar] and for the water are offerings of water and such
most dear. If even but some water by My bhakta presented with faith is most dear
[to Me, see also B.G. 9: 26], then how much more would foodstuffs, flowers,
lamps, fragrances and incense mean; but the many that is being offered by non-

devotees will not bring about My satisfaction [see also B.G. 16]. (19) Being clean,
having collected the necessary items, with the blades [of kus'a] of the seat that
was arranged to the east, and sitting down facing the east or the north, or else
directly facing the deity, should he then be of worship [compare 1.19: 17, 4.24:
10, 8.9: 14-15]. (20) Chanting mantra's and assigning them to his own and to My
deity body should he with his hand wipe clean [the altar and deity] and properly
prepare the sacred pot and vessel for sprinkling the water. (21) With the water of
the vessel sprinkling the area of the deity, the utensils and his own body, should
he next get ready three vessels with water and arrange the necessary auspicious
items available [like flowers, grains, blades of grass, sesame seeds etc., see ***].
(22) The three vessels there with water for His feet [pdya], His hands [arghya],
and His mouth [camana] should the worshiper then purify with the mantra's for
[respectively] the heart [hridayya namah], the head [s'rase svh] and the
tuft of hair [s'ikhyai vashath] as also with the gyatr. (23) He should
meditate on the Original Individuality of all Expansions, the very subtle
transcendental form of Mine that, within his body fully purified by air and fire, is
situated on the lotus of the heart and is experienced in the end vibration of the
pranava [see also 2.2]. (24) By that from his own realization conceived, meditated
form perfectly of worship within the body, that by His presence pervaded got
charged, should he carry out the worship in detail inviting Him by [nysa]
touching His limbs with mantras to establish Him within the deity and all there to
it respected. (25-26) One should for the achievement of both [enjoyment and
liberation], to both the Vedas and the tantras, together with the items of worship
make the offerings of the pdya, arghya and camana water to Me, after having
pictured to oneself My seat with the nine s'aktis and the dharma etc. [*4] as an
effulgent lotus with eight petals within its whorl saffron filaments. (27) One after
the other he should respect the Lord His disc-weapon [the sudars'ana cakra], His
conch [the pcajanya], His club [the kaumodaki] and His arrows and bow [the
s'arnga], His [Balarma items of the] plow and pestle [hala and mushala], his
gem [the kaustubha], His garland [the vaijayant] and His chest mark curl of
white hairs [the s'rvatsa]. (28) Garuda, Nanda, Sunanda, Pracanda and Canda;
Mahbala and Bala and indeed Kumuda and Kumudekshana [are the names of
His His carrier bird and eight associates]. (29) Durg, Vinyaka [Ganes'a],
Vysa, Vishvaksena [see 6.8: 29, 9.21: 25-26], the spiritual masters, the godly,
should each in their own place facing the deity be worshiped with the sprinkling
of water and other rituals [*5]. (30-31) Using waters scented with sandalwood,
us'ra root, camphor, kunkuma and aguru should the worshiper every day bathe
[the deity] as far as his means permit; also he should chant hymns, such as the one
from the vedic chapter known as svarna-gharma, the incantation called
mahpurusha, the purusha-skta [from the Rig Veda] and songs from the
Sma Veda such as the rjana and such. (32) With clothing, a sacred thread,
ornaments, marks of tilaka, garlands and fragrant oils should My devotee with
love decorate Me as is enjoined. (33) Pdya and camana water, fragrances and
flowers, whole grains, incense, lamps and such items should by the worshiper be
presented to Me with faith. (34) To one's means should one arrange for offerings

of foodstuffs like candy, sweet rice, ghee rice flour cake [s'ashkul], sweet cakes
[ppa], sweet rice flour dumplings with coconut [modaka], spicy sweet wheat
cake of ghee and milk [samyva], yogurt and vegetable soups. (35) Massaging
with ointment, cleaning the teeth using a mirror, bathing, food to be chewed and
not to be chewed, singing and dancing one should have on special days or else
every day. (36) In a sacrificial area set up as prescribed should one, using a girdle,
a fire pit and an elevation of sacrifice, by hand build and bring to a blaze a fire
equally piled up. (37) Spreading [kus'a grass, mats] and then sprinkling and
ceremonially [anvdhna] placing wood in the fire according the rules should
he, having arranged for the camana water, sprinkling the items to offer,
meditate on Me as residing in the fire. (38-41) Meditating in worship of Him as
being brilliant with a color of molten gold, His conch, disc, club and lotus, His
four arms and tranquility; His garment with the color of the filaments of a lotus,
shining helmet, bracelets, belt, the ornaments on His arms, the s'rvatsa on His
chest, the effulgent kaustubha and a flower garland; throwing pieces of wood
soaked in ghee into the fire and in the course of the arghya ritual making the two
offerings of sprinkling ghee [two ways called rgharas] and [two different]
oblations of ghee [called jyabhgas], should the intelligent one offer into the
fire with root mantras and the [sixteen lines of the] purusha-skta hymn the
oblations to Yamarja and the other demigods called svisthi-krit in due order
using a mantra for each [see also 11.14: 36-42, 11.19: 20-24, 11.21: 15]. (42)
Thus having been of worship next offering obeisances unto His associates, should
he present offerings chanting the basic mantra for the Deity in question,
remembering the Absolute Truth as being the Original Self of Nryana. (43)
Offering the camana water and giving the remnants of the food to Vishvaksena,
should one then present prepared betel nut and fragrant water for the mouth [see
also 11.3: 48-53, 11.25: 28]. (44) He should at times [see kla, 11.21: 9] become
absorbed in the celebration, listening himself and making others listen to My
stories, acting out actively the transcendental activities along with loud singing
and dancing [see also e.g. 11.5: 36-37, 11.14: 23-24]. (45) With prayers from the
purnas, with greater or lesser prayers from other ancient scriptures and prayers
written by others [see bhajans], should one prostrating pay homage and say 'O
Lord, please show your mercy' and so also pray from direct experience [and other
common sources]. (46) Placing one's head at My feet with one's palms brought
together [one may pray like:] 'O Lord, please protect this one of surrender afraid
of the mouth of death in this material ocean' [compare B.G. 11: 19]. (47) Thus
praying should the remnants granted by Me be put to one's head and in case the
deity respectfully is to be bidden farewell, should this praying be done once more,
so that the light [of the deity] is placed within the light [of one's heart *6].
(48) Whenever one develops faith in Me in whatever deity form or other
manifestations should one therein accordingly be of respect since I, the Original
Soul of All, am situated within as well all living beings as in oneself [see also
B.G. 6: 31 and *7]. (49) This way by the processes of acting in yoga will a person
worshiping both in this life and the next to the Veda and other specialized texts,
from Me achieve the desired perfection. (50) To properly establish My deity

should he build a strong temple, along with beautiful flower gardens reserved [to
provide flowers] for daily puja, festivals and yearly occasions. (51) He who
donates land, shops, cities and villages in order to assure the continuance of the
daily worship and the special occasions, will achieve an opulence equal to Mine.
(52) Installing the deity brings sovereignty over the entire earth, building a temple
gives rulership over the three worlds and performing puja and other such services
delivers one the realm of Brahm; with all three will one attain a status equal to
Mine. (53) He who free from ulterior motives engages in bhakti-yoga achieves by
bhakti-yoga; he who thus is of worship receives Me alone [see also 5.5: 14, 11.12:
24 and B.G. 6: 44]. (54) He who from the godly and the learned takes away the
livelihood he gave himself or was given by others, is a stool-eating worm to take
birth for a hundred million years [compare 10.64: 39]. (55) The perpetrator [of
such theft] and his accomplice as also the prompter and the one approving all
share the karmic reaction in the next life in which they according their
commitment to that will reap the results.
Regards,
Orlando.
I aspire to be the servant of the servant of Lord Krishna
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3. 16 November 2006, 09:22 AM #3

orlando
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Re: Idol worshipping

Dear Vcindiana,
you should be aware that there are hindu scriptures called Agamas.
By http://www.srivaishnavan.com/ans_vedas.html#39
39.The Agamas accept the authority of Vedas. The Agamas prescribe idol
worship in the place of rituals like Yagas, mentioned in the Vedas. They
prescribed the methods of idol worship.
40.The Agamas are predominantly divided into Saiva, Sakta and Vaishnava
Agamas. Agamas mainly talk about construction of temples; the rules for
installation and consecration of the deities in the temples; and the methods of
performing pujas in the temples.
Now I will quote some chapters from the book Dancing with Siva, Hinduism's
Contemporary Catechism by by Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami (19272001).
By http://www.himalayanacademy.com/reso...andala-26.html
What Is the Nature of the Holy Agamas?
SLOKA 129
The Agamas, Sanatana Dharma's second authority, are revelations on sacred
living, worship, yoga and philosophy. Saivism, Saktism and Vaishnavism each
exalts its own array of Agamas, many over 2,000 years old. Aum.
BHASHYA
In the vast Agamic literature, tradition counts 92 main Saiva Agamas--10 Siva, 18
Rudra and 64 Bhairava--77 Sakta Agamas and 108 Vaishnava Pancharatra
Agamas. Most Agamas are of four parts, called padas, and possess thousands of
metered Sanskrit verses, usually of two lines. The charya pada details daily
religious observance, right conduct, the guru-shishya relationship, community
life, house design and town planning. The kriya pada, commonly the longest,
extols worship and temples in meticulous detail--from site selection, architectural
design and iconography, to rules for priests and the intricacies of daily puja,
annual festivals and home-shrine devotionals. The yoga pada discloses the interior
way of meditation, of raja yoga, mantra and tantra which stimulates the
awakening of the slumbering serpent, kundalini. The jnana pada narrates the
nature of God, soul and world, and the means for liberation. The Tirumantiram
declares, "Veda and Agama are Iraivan's scriptures. Both are truth: one is general,
the other specific. While some say these words of God reach two different
conclusions, the wise see no difference." Aum Namah Sivaya.
How Are the Agamas Significant Today?
SLOKA 130

While the Vedas, with myriad Deities, bind all Hindus together, the Agamas, with
a single supreme God, unify each sect in a oneness of thought, instilling in
adherents the joyful arts of divine adoration. Aum Namah Sivaya.
BHASHYA
God is love, and to love God is the pure path prescribed in the Agamas. Veritably,
these texts are God's own voice admonishing the samsari, reincarnation's
wanderer, to give up love of the transient and adore instead the Immortal. How to
love the Divine, when and where, with what mantras and visualizations and at
what auspicious times, all this is preserved in the Agamas. The specific doctrines
and practices of day-to-day Hinduism are nowhere more fully expounded than in
these revelation hymns, delineating everything from daily work routines to
astrology and cosmology. So overwhelming is Agamic influence in the lives of
most Hindus, particularly in temple liturgy and culture, that it is impossible to
ponder modern Sanatana Dharma without these discourses. While many Agamas
have been published, most remain inaccessible, protected by families and guilds
who are stewards of an intimate hereditary knowledge. The Tirumantiram says,
"Nine are the Agamas of yore, in time expanded into twenty-eight, they then took
divisions three, into one truth of Vedanta-Siddhanta to accord. That is Suddha
Saiva, rare and precious." Aum Namah Sivaya.
Now please read what is said in Karana Agama:
"As the worshipper sees the image of his Deity in stone, clay, wood, or
painting, then the God grants light from the Self completely of His own
accord. Thus as fire from wood, the moon casts its reflection in the water pot
spontaneously."
Regards,
Orlando.
I aspire to be the servant of the servant of Lord Krishna
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4. 16 November 2006, 09:39 AM #4

orlando
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Re: Idol worshipping

Now I will quote other agamic verses.
I hope that you already know that Linga is the sacred symbol of Lord Shiva.

For the purpose of protection of all, a Linga is variously caused to be built in

villages by Gods, by seers and by ordinary men.Karana Agama 10
Cutting all the stones to be cut, carving all the stones to be carved, boring all
the stones to be bored, such are the three aspects of the shilpi's art. The
architect and the sutragrahin build the temples and craft the images, but it is
with the takshaka that the architect effects the opening of the eyes of these

images, and similar rites.Suprabheda Agama 21.28-29.

Having worshiped Nandi in the Southeast -- two-eyed, two-armed, black in
color, having the formidable three-pointed trident of Siva, with a crest and
twisted locks of hair -- in the Southwest, he should especially worship
Mahakala, black in color, two-eyed, two-armed, with white garment, twolegged, having an awesome form, equipped with a noose and a tusk, and
endowed with all ornaments.Karana Agama 323-325
He should repeat the Siva mantra according to his ability, and (there should
be) circumambulation, obeisance and surrender of the self.Karana Agama 446
Offerings of perfumed substances, flowers, incense, lamps and fresh fruits -these are the five elements of the traditional puja which culminates with the
offering of the lamps.Kamika Agama 4.374
A Linga sprung up by itself and an image in the shape of a God are said to be
intended for worship for the purpose of others. The merit to the worshiper of
worship for all others is the same as the merit of worship for oneself. The
worship rites from the very beginning, worship of the Linga and its support,
must be done by an Adishaiva in the manner described in the Agamas.Karana
Agama 11
The twice-born gurukal should twice place the triple sectarian marks of ash
mixed with water. Having scattered all sins by this twofold protection of his
body, the gurukal should now be competent to perform all the sacrificial
rites. As fire in a basin flames by means of air, thus Lord Siva is born, is
made manifest before the eyes of the devotee, by mantra, in the Linga.Karana
Agama 64
In the beginning of worship, at the conclusion of the rite, in the offering of
water, in the anointing of the image, in the bathing of the image, in the
offering of light, in the sprinkling of the image with sandal, in the bathing of
the image with consecrated liquids, in the offering of incense, in the act of
worship, and in all other things to be done, the Sivacharya should strike the
great bell.Karana Agama 190-191
He should bathe the Linga, repeating the Vyoma-Vyapi Mantra, and with
sesame oil, and with curd, milk and ghee, with coconut water, with honey,
repeating the Panchabrahman, he should carefully rub the Linga with fine
rice-flour paste, repeating the Hridaya Mantra.Karana Agama 274
First there is the invocation; second, the establishing of the God; third, water
for washing the feet should be offered; fourth, water for sipping; fifth, the
placing of arghya, water; sixth, sprinkling water as ablution; seventh,
garment and sandal; eighth, worship with flowers; ninth, incense and light

should be offered; tenth, offering of food; eleventh, oblation should be

performed; twelfth, the holy fire, an oblation of clarified butter; thirteenth,
an oblation; fourteenth, song and music; fifteenth, dancing; and sixteenth,
the act of leaving.Karana Agama 423-426
Whatever the merit in any sacrifice, austerity, offering, pilgrimage or place,
the merit of worship of the Sivalinga equals that merit multiplied by
hundreds of thousands.Karana Agama 9
In the forenoon with a white garment, in midday with a red garment, with a
yellow garment in the evening, and with any of them in the night, the
worshiper, drawing the God near with the Sadyojata Mantra, should cause
Him to be firmly established by means of the Vama Mantra and the Aghora
Mantra.Karana Agama 269-270
First there should be purification of one's self; secondly, purification of the
site; thirdly, there should be the cleansing of the worship materials, fourthly,
purification of the Linga; fifthly, purification of the mantras should be done.
Thus there is the five-fold purification.Karana Agama 46
Even the incompetent, indeed, should worship, ending with the offering of
sacrificial food, ending with light. He who daily does this shall obtain
progress toward the Auspicious.Karana Agama 450
I really hope that the verses I quoted helped you to understand that hindu religion
its-self requires "idol" worshipping to his followers.
I think that you will can find very interesting to read three chapters from the book
Dancing with Siva, Hinduism's Contemporary Catechism .
You may wish to read them:
http://www.himalayanacademy.com/reso...andala-21.html
http://www.himalayanacademy.com/reso...andala-22.html
http://www.himalayanacademy.com/reso...andala-23.html
Regards,
Orlando.
I aspire to be the servant of the servant of Lord Krishna
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5. 16 November 2006, 09:45 AM #5

orlando
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Re: Idol worshipping

I will quote something from the book How to Become a Hindu, A Guide for
Seekers and Born Hindus by Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami.
By http://www.himalayanacademy.com/reso...hbh_ch-10.html
Question five: Are Hindus idol worshipers?
A:No, Hindus are not idle worshipers. They worship with great vigor and
devotion!
Longer Answer:Seriously, Hindus are not idol worshipers in the sense implied.
We Hindus invoke the presence of God, or the Gods, from the higher, unseen
worlds, into stone images so that we can experience His divine presence,
commune with Him and receive His blessings. But the stone or metal Deity
images are not mere symbols of the Gods. They are the form through which their
love, power and blessings flood forth into this world. We may liken this mystery
to our ability to communicate with others through the telephone. We do not talk to
the telephone; rather we use it as a means of communication with another person.
Without the telephone, we could not converse across long distances; and without
the sanctified icon in the temple we cannot easily commune with the Deity.
Divinity can also be invoked and felt in a sacred fire, or in a tree, or in the
enlightened person of a satguru. In our temples, God is invoked in the sanctum by
highly trained priests. Through the practice of yoga, or meditation, we invoke
God inside ourself. Yoga means to yoke oneself to God within. The image or icon
of worship is a focus for our prayers and devotions. Another way to explain icon
worship is to acknowledge that Hindus believe God is everywhere, in all things,
whether stone, wood, creatures or people. So, it is not surprising that they feel
comfortable worshiping the divine in His material manifestation. The Hindu can
see God in stone and water, air and ether, and inside his own soul.

Explanation:Humorously speaking, Hindus are not idle worshipers. I have never

seen a Hindu worship in a lazy or idle way. They worship with great vigor and
devotion, with unstinting regularity and constancy. There's nothing idle about our
ways of worship! (A little humor never hurts.) But, of course, the question is
about "graven images." All religions have their symbols of holiness through
which the sacred flows into the mundane. To name a few: the Christian cross, or
statues of Mother Mary and Saint Theresa, the holy Kaaba in Mecca, the Sikh Adi
Granth enshrined in the Golden Temple in Amritsar, the Arc and Torah of the
Jews, the image of a meditating Buddha, the totems of indigenous and Pagan
faiths, and the artifacts of the many holy men and women of all religions. Such
icons, or graven images, are held in awe by the followers of the respective faiths.
The tooth of the Buddha in Sri Lanka's town of Kandy is another loved and
respected image. The question is, does this make all such religionists idolworshipers? The answer is, yes and no. From our perspective, idol worship is an
intelligent, mystical practice shared by all of the world's great faiths.
The human mind releases itself from suffering through the use of forms and
symbols that awaken reverence, evoke sanctity and spiritual wisdom. Even a
fundamentalist Christian who rejects all forms of idol worship, including those of
the Catholic and Episcopal churches, would resent someone who showed
disrespect for his Bible. This is because he considers it sacred. In Hinduism one of
the ultimate attainments is when the seeker transcends the need of all form and
symbol. This is the yogi's goal. In this way Hinduism is the least idol-oriented of
all the religions of the world. There is no religion that is more aware of the
transcendent, timeless, formless, causeless Truth. Nor is there any religion which
uses more symbols to represent Truth in preparation for that realization.
Regards,
Orlando.
I aspire to be the servant of the servant of Lord Krishna
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6. 16 November 2006, 09:51 AM #6

satay
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Re: Idol worshipping

namaste and welcome to the Hindu Dharma Forums.
Originally Posted by vcindiana
How one can reduce all loving powerful God into a piece of metal?
I am a little confused to read your post. Are you suggesting that we 'reduce' all
loving powerful God into 'nothingness' ? How do you pray or worship God
without the help of an aid? Are you suggesting that we join our Buddhists
brothers in their shunyavada where there is 'no' God so to speak?
Budhaam sharnaam Gacchaami!
Last edited by satay; 16 November 2006 at 02:06 PM.
satay
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7. 17 November 2006, 02:48 AM #7

Sudarshan
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Re: Idol worshipping

Originally Posted by vcindiana
It appears Hindus have created Gods made out of metal, wood rock etc. How one
can reduce all loving powerful God into a piece of metal?
The "all loving powerful God" can be reduced into a single syllable AUM. That is
a form of "sound" idolatory. If you have the ability to meditate on this form of
God you dont have to reduce God to a metal. Otherwise it is a good idea to have
one, lest you might end up as a "void" worshipper.
Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.
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8. 17 November 2006, 07:55 AM #8

sm78
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Re: Idol worshipping

Originally Posted by vcindiana

Why do Hindus have to worship Idols ?
Because it is a natural way to worship.
Originally Posted by vcindiana
It appears Hindus have created Gods made out of metal, wood rock etc.
False. Hindu's don't think they can create Gods. They do worship God through
metal, wood rock etc.
Originally Posted by vcindiana
How one can reduce all loving powerful God into a piece of metal?
He doesn't get reduced to a piece of metal, he simple resides there too.
How can God sit within a temple like a jailed criminal?
How can a God sit away far up in the sky and watch the mess? Is he fit to be a
God if he doen't have the patience to sit in a temple and bless his devotees?
Originally Posted by vcindiana
People argue that it is only a symbol, how can we make God into something like
symbol?
How can you make God into anything for that matter? How can one make God
into a tyrant of the sky who creates and then punishes?
But on the other hand, Hindu's don't make God into a symbol. Symbols are
merely a way of making us understand the many mysteries of God.
Originally Posted by vcindiana
People go crazy about the idols, create glitzy temples, pour ridiculous money on
jewelery and also create politics as to which idol they need to be worshipping .
People go crazy on lot of things, like hatred for some means of worship. Some of
them spend enormous amount of money to run the political machinery of
conversion. Still others run organizations of terror. They believe is God is as
narrow as their perverted minds.
Originally Posted by vcindiana

Even catholics worship idol Mary! Worshipping just the Cross is equally bad, real
christ followers do not do that. There appears onething good in Islam that is not
having an idol but its very religiousness that I cannot stand. Care to comment?
The less we speak of these Islam, catholic and such religions when discussing
dharma the easier it will be to understand dharma.
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9. 17 November 2006, 08:52 AM #9

orlando
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Re: Idol worshipping

Originally Posted by vcindiana
Why do Hindus have to worship Idols ? It appears Hindus have created Gods
made out of metal, wood rock etc. How one can reduce all loving powerful God
into a piece of metal? How can God sit within a temple like a jailed criminal?
People argue that it is only a symbol, how can we make God into something like
symbol? People go crazy about the idols, create glitzy temples, pour ridiculous
money on jewelery and also create politics as to which idol they need to be
worshipping .
God is everywhere!He is All-pervading!
Please read what is said in Adhyatma Upanishad .
By http://www.advaita.it/library/adhyatma.htm

Om! That (Brahman) is infinite, and this (universe) is infinite. The infinite
proceeds from the infinite. (Then) taking the infinitude of the infinite (universe),
It remains as the infinite (Brahman) alone.
Om! Let there be Peace in me! Let there be Peace in my environment! Let there
be Peace in the forces that act on me!
In the cave of the body is eternally set the one unborn. The earth is His body.
(Though) moving within the earth, the earth knows Him not. The eater is His
body. (Though) moving within the water, the water knows Him not. The fire is
His body. (Though) moving within the fire, the fire knows Him not. The air is His
body. (Though) moving within the air, the air knows Him not. The ether is His
body. (Though) moving within the ether, the ether knows Him not. The mind is
His body. (Though) moving within the mind, the mind knows Him not. The
intellect is His body. (Though) moving within the intellect, the intellect knows
Him not. The ego is His body. (Though) moving within the ego, the ego knows
Him not. The mind-stuff is His body. (Though) moving within the mind-stuff, the
mind-stuff knows Him not. The unmanifest is His body. (Though) moving within
the unmanifest, the unmanifest knows Him not. The imperishable is His body.
(Though) moving within the imperishable, the imperishable knows Him not. The
Death is His body. (Though) moving within Death, Death knows Him not. He,
then, is the inner-self of all beings, sinless, heaven-born, luminous, the sole
Narayana.
Now please read what is said in Brihadaranyaka Upanishad.
By http://www.advaita.it/library/brihadaranyaka.htm
III-vii-1: Then Uddalaka, the son of Aruna, asked him. Yajnavalkya, said, in
Madra we lived in the house of Patanchala Kapya (descendant of Kapi), studying
the scriptures on sacrifices. His wife was possessed by a Gandharva. We asked
him who he was. He said, "Kabandha, the son of Atharvan". He said to Patanchala
Kapya and those who studied the scriptures on sacrifices, "Hapya, do you know
that Sutra by which this life, the next life and all beings are held together ?"
Patanchala Kapya said, "I do not know it, sir". The Gandharva said to him and the
students, "Kapya, do you know that Internal Ruler who controls this and the next
life and all beings from within ?" Patanchala Kapya said, "I do not know Him,
sir". The Gandharva said to him and the students, "He who knows that Sutra and
that Internal Ruler as above indeed knows Brahman, knows the worlds, knows the
gods, knows the Vedas, knows beings, knows the self, and knows everything". He
explained it all to them. I know it. If you, Yajnavalkya, do not know that Sutra
and that Internal Ruler, and still take away the cows that belong only to the
knowers of Brahman, your head shall fall off. I know, O Gautama, that Sutra
and that Internal Ruler. Any one can say, "I know, I know". Tell us what you
know.
III-vii-2: He said, Vayu, O Gautama, is that Sutra. Through this Sutra or Vayu
this and the next life and all beings are held together. Therefore, O Gautama,
when a man dies, they say that his limbs have been loosened, for they are held

together, O Gautama, by the Sutra or Vayu. Quite so, Yajnavalkya. Now

describe the Internal Ruler.
III-vii-3: He who inhabits the earth, but is within it, whom the earth does not
know, whose body is the earth, and who controls the earth from within, is the
Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
III-vii-4: He who inhabits water, but is within it, whom water does not know,
whose body is water, and who controls water from within, is the Internal Ruler,
your own immortal self.
III-vii-5: He who inhabits fire, but is within it, whom fire does not know, whose
body is fire, and who controls fire from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own
immortal self.
III-vii-6: He who inhabits the sky, but is within it, whom the sky does not know,
whose body is the sky, and who controls the sky from within, is the Internal
Ruler, your own immortal self.
III-vii-7: He who inhabits air, but is within it, whom air does not know, whose
body is air, and who controls air from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own
immortal self.
III-vii-8: He who inhabits heaven, but is within it, whom heaven does not know,
whose body is heaven, and who controls heaven from within, is the Internal Ruler,
your own immortal self.
III-vii-9: He who inhabits the sun, but is within it, whom the sun does not know,
whose body is the sun, and who controls the sun from within, is the Internal
Ruler, your own immortal self.
III-vii-10: He who inhabits the quarters, but is within it, whom the quarters does
not know, whose body is the quarters, and who controls the quarters from within,
is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
III-vii-11: He who inhabits the moon and stars, but is within it, whom the moon
and stars does not know, whose body is the moon and stars, and who controls the
moon and stars from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
III-vii-12: He who inhabits the ether, but is within it, whom the ether does not
know, whose body is the ether, and who controls the ether from within, is the
Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
III-vii-13: He who inhabits darkness, but is within it, whom darkness does not
know, whose body is darkness, and who controls darkness from within, is the
Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
III-vii-14: He who inhabits light, but is within it, whom light does not know,
whose body is light, and who controls light from within, is the Internal Ruler,
your own immortal self. This much with reference to the gods. Now with
reference to the beings.
III-vii-15: He who inhabits all beings, but is within it, whom no being knows,
whose body is all beings, and who controls all beings from within, is the Internal
Ruler, your own immortal self. This much with reference to the beings. Now with
reference to the body.
III-vii-16: He who inhabits the nose, but is within it, whom the nose does not
know, whose body is the nose, and who controls the nose from within, is the
Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.

III-vii-17: He who inhabits the organ of speech, but is within it, whom the organ
of speech does not know, whose body is the organ of speech, and who controls
the organ of speech from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
III-vii-18: He who inhabits the eye, but is within it, whom the eye does not know,
whose body is the eye, and who controls the eye from within, is the Internal
Ruler, your own immortal self.
III-vii-19: He who inhabits the ear, but is within it, whom the ear does not know,
whose body is the ear, and who controls the ear from within, is the Internal Ruler,
your own immortal self.
III-vii-20: He who inhabits the mind (Manas), but is within it, whom the mind
does not know, whose body is the mind, and who controls the mind from within,
is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
III-vii-21: He who inhabits the skin, but is within it, whom the skin does not
know, whose body is the skin, and who controls the skin from within, is the
Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
III-vii-22: He who inhabits the intellect, but is within it, whom the intellect does
not know, whose body is the intellect, and who controls the intellect from within,
is the Internal Ruler, your own immortal self.
III-vii-23: He who inhabits the organ of generation, but is within it, whom the
organ of generation does not know, whose body is the organ of generation, and
who controls the organ of generation from within, is the Internal Ruler, your own
immortal self. He is never seen, but is the Witness; He is never heard, but is the
Hearer; He is never thought, but is the Thinker; He is never known, but is the
Knower. There is no other witness but Him, no other hearer but Him, no other
thinker but Him, no other knower but Him. He is the Internal Ruler, your own
immortal self. Everything else but Him is mortal. Thereupon Uddalaka, the son
of Aruna, kept silent.
Such upanishadic verses show that God is really all-pervading and He is
everywhere.
If God is everywhere(and in fact He is everywhere!) why should not He be even
inside a statue or a symbol????
Regards,
Orlando.
I aspire to be the servant of the servant of Lord Krishna