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Sharon Cloud
Sharon Cloud lives in Oneida, Wisconsin where she
owns a business called Central Wisconsin B.E.S.T.
Beadwork. She enjoys attending powwows. Sharon is
an Oneida Native American and from the Turtle Clan,
while her husband, Allen, is a HoChunk and from the
Sky Clan.
Can you tell us a little about yourself, and what nation you are from?
I am a member of the Oneida Nation in Wisconsin, which is in Oneida by Green Bay. I grew up there,
and left when I was about 17 to go to college. I never really moved back because in the process of going
to college, I ended up getting married soon after I graduated. But, I grew up in the Oneida area. The
interesting thing about the Oneida area is that coming off of boarding schools and World War II, a lot of
the Oneida people were trying to convince themselves and their children that being Indian wasnt the way
to be. So, a lot of our parents and grandparents were trying to tell us that we should go to school and
learn how to be like the white people so that we would advance and wouldnt hang on to culture and
wouldnt worry about our history. So, growing up, I didnt know very much about my own history and
culture. A lot of what I now know, and a lot of the ceremonies and the things that I have been involved
with, I have done as an adult. Ive had to make myself go back and learn things that I didnt know when
I was younger. My husband is Ho-Chunk, and he grew up just the opposite of that, speaking his
language, being involved in ceremonies, and dancing at powwows.
So, now as an adult, Im still learning, and now I have eight grandchildren from three daughters that are
all Ho-Chunk. My children are all enrolled Ho-Chunk, and my grandchildren are all Ho-Chunk, so Im
forced, well not forced, but an interest on my part has been to learn Ho-Chunk, so that I can help my
daughters identify with their culture. I never learned my language. I know a few words here and there
and its been exciting for me to even say thank you in Oneida. I just learned that word in the last couple
of years. I regularly talk to young people about culture, my culture, and about American Indian culture
generally, to young people in classes and I always happen to say to them that I didnt grow up learning
this stuff, but I learned it as an adult. We have an oral tradition, so a lot of our stories are passed on from
grandparents to their kids and to their grandchildren. There was almost a wall between my culture and
myself, with my parents saying, Oh, dont worry about that, just go to school and be a good student, get
involved in band, be a good athlete all these kinds of things, so there was always this wall there. The
stories werent told to me, so a lot of the stories that I have learned have been me asking, Well, what
about this? or If I dance at powwows, what do Oneidas wear, what do the outfits look like? Ive had to
research that, so now I have an Oneida outfit and I dance at powwows, and as a young person, I never
did that. My daughters, on the other hand, started dancing when they were about 12 or 13, so now we
have eight grandkids that dance! As you can see, Im kind of caught in the middle of three cultures as
opposed to a lot of people being with one, so you do need to know about your culture and about the other
cultures, so you need to know both worlds. With me, I was caught in the majority culture, but later on
in life, I needed to get to know my own culture with the Oneida people, and now marrying my husband,
I am in the middle of that culture as well, which is entirely different than the Oneida one.
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Besides oral traditions, we have ceremonies, ceremonies for everything, and I didnt know that, and my
parents didnt even know that, and now as an adult Ive been through those ceremonies and so have they.
I actually have a Ho-Chunk culture now, myself. I am a part of that culture. A long time ago, with all
of the Indian nations, when you are born, you are given a name, and my name is Sharon. I was given
that name, but those are English words, and my husband always says that his name is Allen, and its
borrowed from a different culture. His real name is Maheet, its the Ho-Chunk word for Cloud. You dont
I never received an
always get your last name as your Indian name, but his
last name is Cloud and that is his Indian name as well. So
Oneida name, until
when I was born, my name was Sharon, and I never
three years ago
, and
received an Oneida name, until three years ago, and
probably ten years ago, I started inquiring, What is the
probably ten years
process, and how do people get an Oneida name? Now
ago, I started
a lot of the young people in Oneida, are actually going by
their Oneida name, and they dont even have English inquiring,
What is the
names, so I was kind of jealous! But, then I was pushed
process, and how to
a little harder to have an Oneida name. My husband was
explaining to me that the Ho-Chunk people, the married
peple get an Oneida
couples, that are from different nations and different
name?
tribes. Since my husband is Ho-Chunk, if I were to die
before him, he would physically give me back to the
Oneida people because thats where my spirit is supposed to be, with them. Then, I told my husband,
You know, I always heard that married couples get buried next to each other, how can I change that?
So, my husband told me that there is a process for that; youll have to hope that someone will contact
your family when you are deceased, and that they bring you home, physically. Also, somebody over there
from your side of the family needs to know that you want to be buried by me, and then when we do that,
the Ho-Chunk will have to take care of you and your funeral services. So, I had to go and tell my parents,
my brothers and sisters, tell my aunts and uncles, that, If I die, before or after Allen, and they start
sending me back over here, just tell them to keep me, because I want to be buried by Allen, so then the
Ho-Chunk will take care of me. So, in their ceremony, and I believe in ours as well, part of the
ceremony is our Creator has to know that you died, and someone has to tell them, and that is similar in
probably in everybodys culture. In your culture, your creator is Hmong, and in my culture, the creator
is Oneida, and the Ho-Chunk creator is Ho-Chunk, and thats the way it is, even though everybody
believes that there is a Creator, every culture has their own. During the ceremony of dying and birth, and
all the religious ceremonies that you can go to, you can see the Creator in some way, some fashion. My
husband was explaining to me that in Ho-Chunk, during your burial ceremony, some of the people speak
to the Creator, and they do it in Ho-Chunk, so they have to say your name, so that the creator knows that
you are coming so that they make a place for you, and you know that you are walking into a place that
is familiar, but they have to know your name. So, my husband says to me, I dont know what they would
do with you, because youre Oneida and you dont even have a name! Therefore, the Ho-Chunk creator
isnt going to recognize a Sharon, because it isnt a Ho-Chunk word. So, first I thought that I had to get
a name, and the Ho-Chunk cant give me a name because Im with them. So, another lesson I learned is
the process of getting a name.
Can you describe that process?
The Oneida people have what is called the Long House ceremony, and its also a dwelling, so a long
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house is a type of dwelling. A husband and a wife would have a family, and they would build a house if
a child came along. Normally, women brought men into their home, the men did not take the women
away, so the women always stayed home, and the men would go. There would also be a smoke stack for
the husband and wife, and for the daughter, if married, and her husband came and lived with them, it
would be a separate smoke stack, but it would all be in one long house, and so the house just got bigger
and bigger. For the religion, a lot of the ceremonies also went on in the long house. I had to first get a
gift. Gift giving is good, part of diverse cultures involves gift-giving, so thank you for your gift. Shaking
hands is another one, so when you leave, I will shake your hand. I was told that I had to approach a
female elder, and thats because the Oneida people are matriarchal, so our leaders are the women. But,
they are not public speakers, the men are, but the women groom them, and tell them what to say! I was
told to approach an elder Oneida female and take her something, whatever I wanted to give her, so I chose
to give her some wild rice, and I also brought my mother with me. My mother is 82 and had an Oneida
name that I cant quite remember, but she was called that name ever since she was a little child. So, we
both went together to go and visit that lady, and that lady wanted to make it official with my mothers
name, so that was already my mothers name, but the ceremony just made it more official. You know
how they say sometimes, People know you, without even having met you? When we went to this
womans home, it felt that way. She has a little room, and she takes people in there and she has a
conversation with them, and in all of that conversation, she comes up with a name that fits you and your
personality. So, she had talked to my
mother, and told my mother that the
name that had stuck with my mother
would be her name. Then I went in and
talked to her and she said, Arent you
that Oneida woman who lives with the
Ho-Chunk people, and I said Yes,
and she said, I heard you have a really
good life. So, apparently people have
talked to her about me, not just because
she was making it up or anything, but
people had already talked to her about
me, she knew about me and said, Are
your children Ho-Chunk?
I said
Yes, and she asked if I had any
grandchildren and I said, Yes, they are
Ho-Chunk too. Thats what I have
heard, but I have heard that you have a
good life among the Ho-Chunk, and that they treat you well. I told her that was true and that we had
been married for over 30 years and she said, Your Oneida name would be Hu-ing-gi-o, and I couldnt
spell that for you because our language is real different and is not like English language at all. Then I
asked her what my name meant, and she said that it meant she has a good life, and she said because it
especially addresses the fact that I have a good life away from the Oneida people, and that if I told people
my name, they would know that I have a good life where I am. Then I thought, Oh, my husband is going
to like that. He did, so that was our conversation, and she told me what my name would be. Then I
asked her what the next step was, and she said that I had to go to the Long House ceremonies, and that
she wanted me to come to the Winter ceremony, because that is when all the people who are going to be
receiving names are there.
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The whole ceremony took about two hours, so you have to bring food with you. Everything about our
culture involves eating a lot. She told me that I needed to bring a little dish, like a potluck to pass around,
and that there were going to be about 200 people there, but that the point wasnt that I had to feed them
all, just bring a small bowl of something and then during the ceremony, one of your relatives needs to be
there to pass it out, just a little bit of it, and pass it out
to see how far it goes. All of those little bowls that
Out of respect, before
people bring, get sent out in different directions, and I
we go out and cut that
brought a bowl of blueberries and strawberries mixed
together, and one of my daughters passed it out, and
tree down, we put some
she went one way, and another person would go
tobacco and put it on
another way, so you would end up having a whole
plate full of stuff that you probably couldnt finish.
the base of that tree
Also, the whole ceremony is done in the Oneida
and sprinkle it on the
languag. So I was going to go up to people not
speaking Oneida, and my husband came, only
ground and we stand
speaking Ho-Chunk, and three of my daughters, who
there and say a few
speak English, and they never learned either language,
and one of my son-in-laws who is also Ho-Chunk,
words to the creator
also does not speak the language, and there is also me,
explaining what is
who only speaks English. So we are sitting there and
this ceremony is going on, and they are explaining
going to happen...
about names and the culture and what goes on in the
winter, and all of those kind of things. There is also
singing going on. I had a friend who spoke the language, and she knew that I was coming for the
ceremony, and she grew up with an Oneida name and speaking the language, so she sat directly behind
us, and she kind of leaned over, and she explained what they were saying. She explained the whole thing
to us and it was just nice, it made a big difference on how we all felt, and about how my family felt about
the ceremony. So it was good, and I now have an Oneida name. Then, I go back to my husband and tell
my husband that when I die, his family has to know my name, then he tells me that the Ho-Chunk creator,
even though I now have an Oneida name, he wont know that better than anybody. So, I decided to turn
it over to my husband. I explained my name, and I told him that he had to come up with a Ho-Chunk
name that means the same thing, and whoever buries me is going to have to know what that is. But, he
still hasnt come up with one yet, but he said he will. So that is one ceremony, that I do that is specifically
for Oneida. But I know they have ceremonies for weddings, for when children are born, similar
ceremonies that everybody has.
Can you describe some more of the ceremonies?
Beyond that, we have quarterly and seasonal ones. I have a man, who works here with me at University
of Wisconsin -- Stevens Point, and he is into spirituality and his nation understands their culture, and he
does things, and talks about cutting down trees, and how we have to ask the creator, because the creator,
created that life, which is essentially the tree. The creator also needs to give us approval to cut that tree
down. Out of respect, before we go out and cut that tree down, we put some tobacco and put it on the
base of that tree and sprinkle it on the ground and we stand there and say a few words to the creator
explaining what is going to happen and why the tree is coming down. We are just going to cut it down
and use the wood to keep our house warm and we just want to let you know that we are not just killing
this tree and we are not disrespecting it. We just need part of the wood to build a house or whatever. So,
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we do talk to our creator, and do get permission before we do anything. Also, before we go fishing, we
take some tobacco down by the water and tell the creator that we are going to take some fish out of the
water, so we can get something to eat. During the ceremony with my naming, a girl was talking about
all the different kinds of foods, and all the meat involved, the fruits, vegetables and the bread and all that
kind of stuff, so that was probably a good half hour of talking, just talking about food, so ceremonies take
a long time.
I remember, I once said to a young boy one time, he must have been only in second or third grade, and
he asked me if I went to school. I told him yes I did, and he asked if it looked like his school, and I told
him no, and how I went to a one room classroom, and that it
looked like a house, but teachers came there and there was only
one room and we were all in that room, and I said, You know
what, there were schools before there were buildings. Like
churches sometimes were held just on the hillsides, before they
were buildings. I tried to get him to understand what I was
talking about, in his perspective, and it just happened that I had a
picture of an old man sitting behind a young boy on a bank and
they were fishing, and I said, Does this look like a school to
you? I showed him that picture and he said, Thats not a
school. I said, That old man is teaching that young boy
something and it looks like he is probably talking to him, and
that is a school. Thats how our people used to live. In our schools,
our old people help the young people, and the young people could
be involved in playing, or they could be involved in building a
project with their hands. Old people were always around and they
were talking to them in most of our schools. The fact that youre
sitting at home, or youre sitting in your schools here, if your
parents are talking to you about something, dont they teach you
something at home? Thats kind of like school, isnt it? And he
said, Yes. I think he understood that, the whole picture of the
old man and the young boy where he said Thats not school! And after we talked for a little while, that
is school you know? Thats kind of like our culture.
How has not speaking the language affected you?
Not speaking my language has been a real social conflict, in that Im kind of jealous of my husband at
times, because he can fluently speak to his elders and his relatives. When we were first together I felt
uncomfortable, because I always thought they were talking about me, but they never were and he would
always explain things to me. One of the things I learned, and its probably true with Oneida culture that
the men are in control. When they had ceremonies the men would be serving the food to the women; the
women prepared the food, but the men would serve it. They had a thing for the first married; I was the
womens nook, and I was the new woman on the block. When we were first married, he was real good
at explaining to me the expectations of his family, as if I were a Ho-Chunk woman, because I didnt know
those things. I was so grateful because his family accepted me really easy because they thought I just
knew that stuff. He was just good at explaining it to me. When we went to his parents house he told me,
My mother is going to sit there before dinner time and expect you to do the cooking, And I asked, Can
you help me? and she said, Youre on your own, everything is there you need, and I know she liked
whatever it was for dinner, because she had told him that it was. She just sat there patiently waiting for
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me to get dinner ready. Or, if it was not meal time and there were people over, that were married for
awhile, and because I was the new woman, it was my responsibility to get up and make coffee and make
sure everyone had coffee while they were there. I was feeling like a waitress for awhile and I felt like,
How come Im being taken advantage of? It was just nice when a younger brother got married and
there was a new woman to take over. But anyway, my daughters learned all of this so, when we went to,
I dont know if it was my grandfathers or one of my
uncles, somebody died in my family, that was 10 years
ago. My daughters, growing up in this Ho-Chunk
My parents, have
background, the women have to get up and be ready to
changed from don t
do stuff, because of the elders. They need to make sure
that the elders were taken care of, and being at this
be Indian to be an
funeral, and there was a reception part. I have about 10
Oneida so they re
or 12 aunts and uncles, some are still alive, and they
were all there waiting for the food to be served, because
learning the language
it was someones job to get up and serve. So, my
and they re learning
daughters got up right away, and they went up and they
started fixing plates and bringing them back for my
about our history and
parents, and fixing some more plates and bringing them
culture as elders. .
back for my aunt and uncle, and then more plates until all
the people were served. My husband was sitting there,
knowing that that was something to be expected of them,
and my nieces were sitting there waiting for their mothers to come, they were just waiting, just sitting
there, and he told me, Why dont they go up? Look at all these elders here not getting served, and I
said, Well, we werent taught to do that here. So, while the girls were doing that, my aunts and uncles
appreciated that, that they didnt have to get told to do that. They chose to do it, because thats just how
they were raised. My aunts and uncles really enjoyed that, to be served like that, because otherwise they
would have to stand up in the long lines.
We have a clan system. My daughters bought a Turtle necklace for me for Christmas. If you look up there
and see all those turtles, I didnt buy those, students, when they found out Im Turtle clan, they would
just bring those to me as gifts. I dont have a lot of shelves at home to be just putting everything on top,
but there are some expensive turtles up there, like the one on top, the white one. Its one of those
ceramics, I got that one from a graduating student, the other one up there is a Hmong turtle, it was made
by a Hmong lady. That one I purchased because i thought it was pretty and different looking. That is
just one of the things I like, arts and crafts, its an investment.

I guess since were talking about the Turtle Clan, would you know anything about the mission of the
Oneida Tribal school?
The Tribal School? Its an alternative school. Its a public school now, but its an alternative to the public
schools, for kids who are having problems. The school has been there for a long time, though. A lot of
the problems are just about getting along, racism exists in Wisconsin, discrimination and other problems
in the schools, and the tribe decided to make a grant program to build an alternative school. And most
cities have one; is there an alternative school in Wausau? We have an alternative school in Stevens Point.
Its a high school, and its for kids that dont get along very well at the high school, so they go to the
alternative school, and they get special assistance, until they go back to the high school, either SPASH or
Pacelli, whichever they want. Tribes welcome them into their schools, thats why they are called tribal
schools, funded in part by the government, and funded a lot by the casino, or some of the other main
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departments. The whole idea was to provide an alternative to the public schools. It started out as an
elementary school, and they got into junior high and now a high school, so it goes K through 12. They
teach part of the curriculum in their language, so the kids are learning their language, right from
kindergarten. It also teaches part of the ceremonies, for the Oneida nation, so it brings ceremonies right
into the school, they can talk to their creator and not have to worry about staying long. So they say
prayers, I was talking to the
administrator that was there, probably
5 years ago, and he said, Its the only
school in the world, where it starts out
teaching government and legal issues
in kindergarten. So they start out
talking about the Constitution, in
kindergarten, and I dont even know
how they do that. They start out
introducing policies, tribal policies
and jurisdiction, and legal names and
things like that in kindergarten, or how
ever they may approach that, they
bring it down to that level. They start
in kindergarten, so by the time they
finish high school they are speaking
the language, they know the history,
they know the Long House. They
know everything, by the time they finish high school. If they start in kindergarten, and go up, because its
an alternative, they have a choice, they can either go there or the public schools. So I guess the numbers
at the Tribal schools are getting bigger. The mission is basically like the public schools education, but
also having the Oneida education. So their days are longer. They start earlier, and they stay longer. My
parents have changed from Dont be Indian to Be an Oneida. Theyre learning the language and
theyre learning about our history and culture as elders. I am learning as an adult. Im moving into my
elder years, Im not there yet, but Ive had to learn as much as I can about Oneida, and much more than
that, just to help with my daughters, and their kids.
What is your occupation?
I am the director of the Native American Center here at the University, which gets me out into tribal
communities a lot. I like that, I wear a lot of hats. I develop tribal programs on reservations as well as
advise students, Andy B. and I together work with students, on their activities. We both teach part-time
and get out in public schools a lot and talk to kids. Ive been here since 1979, so Ive been here a long
time.
How much do you value education, and how much is education valued by your family?
Well, like I said my parents really valued education a lot. They were pushing it on us, and I had several
brothers and sisters, and we all have high school diplomas, and we all have a least a two year associate
degree, many of us have a bachelors degrees, and two or us our masters degrees. Me and my younger
brother have our masters degrees. I would have gone on for my Ph.D. but I decided that was far enough.
If I was much younger I would have gone for my Ph.D., maybe one of my kids will. At this point, I have
three daughters and they all graduated from SPASH, two have their bachelors degrees from here, and
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theyre working on masters degrees, and one has an associates degree from Mid-State and is working
on a bachelors degree. My husband has a bachelors degree, because the girls and I pulled him in, and
said, Youre going to get a degree whether you like it or not. He had graduated from high school but
never thought about a college degree, too. I have grandkids, the oldest one is 11 and shes already talking
about college. So, our value for college is way up there. A
lot of elders and people my age dont really have a vision
...as far as contributin
for their younger kids to go to school, so if you finish high
school its wonderful, lets have a ceremony and then
to the military that s
thats it, they have a job. High school is kind of the end
real eye?blinking. Our
for a lot of people and with a lot of them not even that,
they still drop out before they finish high school, which is
people went to war
sad, Id like to see them pulled back in somehow.

before they
were citizens.

Before when you said when your parents wanted you to

back away from your culture, was it because they wanted
you to have a better life and education?
Both my parents came through WWII, My dad was in the Navy, Coastguard, and my mother had to work
real hard. I think she had two kids before me and that was during the time my dad was gone. She had a
real hard life, he had a real hard life, prior to going in as well as after, to make money for the family.
When he got home he had to work all the time, life was really bad back then. He was lucky that he had
five brothers who had all been in the service. My dad was probably an electrician in the service and then
he had a brother that was into plumbing, I dont know why, and then another guy that was a mechanic,
and another guy that was really good in building homes. So they got together and they helped each other
build homes. Dad did all the wiring, another guy did all the plumbing, another guy the roofing and the
cement finishing. It cost a lot less, so we grew up in nice homes, that was the one thing, because my
uncles shared the cost. My husband is a little bit jealous sometimes, he said, Seeing some of the pictures
of the homes you guys lived in.., My parents were always taking pictures, we do that too with our
grandkids and our kids. Back then they were all black and white, we didnt have colored film, so seeing
some of those pictures he said You guys look like you were rich people. But we werent, we would
barely scratch out a living. I can remember when my mother had to, there were six of us, and she was
recycling our toys, my doll disappeared one day, and we looked for it, and my mother helped me look for
my doll, knowing she had stolen my doll. She had taken it, and while I was at school she was cleaning
it up and fixing its hair different. I dont remember what the doll had originally had on, but she took
some material from some old curtains and she made this girl into a bride, so it was a bride doll, and my
younger sister got it for Christmas. I didnt even recognize it for awhile, and then I realized that that was
my doll we couldnt find. She recycles trucks from the older guy to the little guy, and she would clean
them up and repaint them, she was just real creative. She never worked, she was always home, my dad
always worked. That was kind of a cultural thing, the husband was supposed to work and the wife was
supposed to stay home. Thats just the way theyve always lived. To this day, shes 82, and has never had
a job, except during the time he was at war. She worked at a factory in Milwaukee.
How do you feel about the difference in calling yourself a Native American or an Indian?
Because of the position I have here I use a lot of different terms. This is a Native American Center, so
thats a term I use often. American Indians tend to call themselves Indians, or they call themselves their
tribal names. I should really be referring to myself as an Oneida, as opposed to Indian, but I use the
words interchangeably. I never really know whats going to come out of my mouth. There is real
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American, theres American Indian, Canadians call us First Nations People, there are other people who
say we are Indigenous Tribes. So it just varies. I dont have a preference, so I use them all.

Do you know what role the Oneida

people played in WWII?
Well, the Oneida people came here
from New York, then we split up in
three different directions. Theres an
Oneida of Canada and the Oneida of
Wisconsin. That was the result of
being pushed out of New York. A
large group of Oneidas came this way,
and weve been in count for every
major war, and they didnt even
consider us citizens. My dad wasnt a
citizen where he was born, it wasnt
until about 1926 when the
government finally said that we could
be citizens. This was interesting,
because we were here before they
were. So, as far as going to the war, a
lot of our men went to war. Later on,
I think with Vietnam, a lot of the women started to go to war as well, we may have had women
in it. My grandfather was in WWI, so we were involved way back. He was in WWI and he actually came
home, and he was disabled, and that was one of the reasons why my dad had such a hard life. His father
came home from WWI disabled, and died young, so it was up to my dad and his brothers and his sisters
to take care of each other. And his mother always had gardens, we always had gardens, too. It was
something to do, we had to survive, everybody had gardens, but my grandparents had massive gardens,
and thats before tractors and before these big machines. So, the grandkids had to be out there, so I spent
a lot of time out in these gardens. But then my grandparents would hire some people from the area to
come there and help and they gave them stuff from the garden. A lot of the produce would come to our
families, so we could eat, too. But as far as contributing to the military thats a real eye blinking. Our
people went to war before they were citizens.
How hard is it today to keep your culture alive?
It depends on the family, but it gets tough. Our kids arent learning the languages. Another thing the
government didnt say is that the Indians had freedom of religion. The Freedom of Religion Act wasnt
until the 70s, before our religions were allowed, or practiced in this country. The people from other
countries came here to avoid religious persecution, and they persecuted the Indians for having their own
religion. Religion, or at least our ceremonies, are our culture, so a lot of them were lost over the years,
before we were allowed to practice them. The government tried really, really hard to just eliminate
American Indians, and they tried various ways to do that. One way was to gather up all the young people
and send them to boarding schools, and teach them how to not be Indian. They cant speak their own
language, they didnt practice ceremonies, they didnt have their parents, and they had to dress all the
same in uniforms. My mother went to a boarding school for a little while, but my dad never did, and his
dad never did. A lot of the older people talk about the boarding schools, and how awful it was. Im sure
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theres a whole decade of people, I dont know how many years, when boarding schools existed that a
whole group of people that were anti-school or anti-government. Another way to eliminate being Indian
was that the government hired missionaries, whatever religion they were, and they sent them to the
Indians, like the Menominee people of Wisconsin, or the Menominee people of Marathon, there was a
Catholic missionary. They dropped a Catholic on
Menominee Territory, to teach them all how to be
Catholic, and a lot of them are. They have a huge church
. . . I don t like
on the reservation, and a lot of the Menominees are
Catholic. The Oneida people, they dropped an Episcopal
mascots, they create
over there, and they made an Episcopal church. My
too much anger in
mothers family grew up being Episcopal, so thats how
she knew where it was. My father grew up being
young people that they
Methodist, and the Episcopal and the Methodist dont get
don t understand, and
along, so when my parents were married their families
didnt get along, because they werent supposed to be
it makes it hard.
together. My mother switched over to being Methodist
for awhile. But religion, the majority populations
religion played a large part because of government control for a long time. This also went into the
ceremonies.
So youre question about, how hard is it to be in the Indian culture, Its really hard, over the years,
but now theres a real emphasis in most of the communities to bring the ceremonies back. In Wisconsin,
it was even harder because our ceremonies were originally in New York, so they had to go and learn them
there, to send people there and learn the ceremonies, or get people from New York to come here, to teach
it to us. The Long House religion, I guess, is pretty strong in Oneida. You know, Im not involved in it,
but still its a small improvement for the people that are doing it. The language is coming back, slowly.
For awhile there was no language in Oneida, in Wisconsin. Thats only been here for about 20 years, and
thats my adult life. Before your time. I have a sister, one sister out of eight of us, who can speak Oneida
but not fluently, she can converse with other people. So seven of us dont know the language. I have a
few nieces that went to the Tribal school that can have conversations with people, I dont know if theyll
ever be fluent, but its really nice to be able to do that. The reason my kids didnt learn a language, is
because I didnt know mine and my husband wasnt a teacher, and he didnt know how to teach the whole
language and there was no conversation. English was the major language, thats what they learned. So
my oldest daughter was 38 and she was trying to learn the language. Well her husband is too, theyre
both taking classes, and they converse with their kids as much as they can. Hopefully the kids are going
to learn it enough to have a whole conversation. Spanish is another language that is at a lot of the schools.
Because of the Spanish people here, theyre teaching Spanish pretty regular in the schools. Dora the
Explorer, thats a Spanish thing there.
My grandson, a year ago, was seven, we were sitting in a pow-wow and my husband was holding him in
his lap. There was an elder, Ho-Chunk, and Im glad, too, because my grandson is learning the language
and he said Da-ga, which is how you say grandma in Ho-Chunk, and he said Da-ga I can count to 10 in
Spanish, and I said, I bet you can, how does that go? So he counted to 10 in Spanish, and my husband
sitting there with these Ho-Chunk women, and one of them says, Geez, whats with these young people
theyre all learning how to speak Spanish, and theyre all fluent in English, but too bad they cant speak
Ho-Chunk. So my husband knew that he could also count to 10 in Ho-Chunk, and he said, How do you
do that in Ho-Chunk? So he counted out as fast as he could in Ho-Chunk. It just made my husband feel
like, my grandson can do that. Thats one of the things they teach early is how to count, and my daughter
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has been working with him, so I was very proud. To hear your kids say anything in your own language
is just really impressive, for me because it wasnt that way. I did a class, I talked to a Hmong class over
at SPASH one time, and they were probably 10 or 12, and they had requested a speaker to come in from
different cultures. It was like a special winters group. So Im in there and Im talking to this little crew
of Hmong students and I brought in some baskets of various kinds. I said how the interesting thing is how
every culture has a different kind of basket weaving, and I said, Do your families still do basket
weaving? and the young boys were sitting up in front and the girls were sitting in the back, and one of
the boys just went, No we dont do that anymore, thats from the old country, and then one of the girls
in the back says, You lie, your mother makes baskets, and I know you help her. Theyre trying to almost
hide the fact that they have a culture. Theyre trying to be so American. Some of our people are doing
that too, its another way young people choose to not want to be Indian. I dont know how to get around
that, there must be something going on that makes them not have the self concept, to not want to learn.
I dont know whats happening in these other cultures as well.

What do you do for recreation and entertainment?

Play with my grandkids, as often as I can. My husband has a drum group, and he sings at pow-wows, so
we go to pow-wows a lot. And I now have a Ho-Chunk outfit and I also have an Oneida outfit, and Ive
worn both of them at pow-wows. Ive been accepted into Ho-Chunk enough now that its ok for me to
be wearing a Ho-Chunk outfit, but I also wear the Oneida one when I can. So we go to pow-wows a lot.
We gamble, we like to go to the casinos. I read. We go to movies once in awhile. I sew. My daughters
and I have developed this business, its called Central Wisconsins BEST, it means Bernice, Ericka,
Sharon and Tracy. So I take orders; I sew a lot, and some pow-wows Ill go as a vender, and some powwows Ill go and be a spectator. We go to arts and craft shows, so were busy all the time. I was going to
show you this picture. Its my oldest granddaughter in her dance outfit, and this is her little sister, and this
is her younger brother, those pictures were taken for a project we were doing. My youngest daughter did
all the bead work, thats the kind of stuff she does. They are all wrestlers, to give you a different side of
them.
How do you handle stereotypes of American Indians?
I handle it pretty well. I dont let people get up in my face, but I dont like it and I let people know if
theyre being racist, or discriminating. The whole issue with mascots is something that Ive been involved
with over the years. I talk to people about it, and one of the things I see with the mascots is that, imagine
a homecoming parade, where a school that doesnt have an Indian mascot is playing against a team that
is called the Indians, or something, and cheerleaders and all the different classes get together, and make
their floats. And because of the spearfishing issue, the spearfishing is something they know about now,
they may have a dead Indian on the float with a spear through him, that says spear the Indians, or kill the
Indians, or something like that. And I said, all these young people, Im afraid, are going to see that and
then theyre going to hear about the spearfishing on the news and the controversy that goes on and theyre
going to see that and theyre going to think its ok, because its in public. And thats how I explain why
I dont like mascots, they create too much anger in young people that they dont understand, and it makes
it hard. I also say that public schools are guilty of not teaching and thats about different cultures. I think
your book is going to be wonderful. Hopefully people will get them and read them. But the schools arent
teaching about racism in cultures. I think that a lot of stereotyping and racism comes from misunderstanding and basic lack of knowledge in public schools that should be teaching all of this stuff.
Do you feel there are any conflicts today between the Native Americans and whites?
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Yes, in Wisconsin, probably mostly northern Wisconsin. Andy was talking to me yesterday and he said
some place up by Eau Claire there is still a sign on a billboard that he saw just this past winter. Its
somewhere up in Eau Claire and its blaze orange and it has the letters PARR on there. Which is an
organization, called Protect American Rights and
Recourses, its an anti-Indian group. It was real active
Gaming is a part of
years ago with the spearfishing. They were the people
that were out at the boat landings shooting guns over the
our culture,
heads of the Indian people that were out in the canoes
gambling, hat
and boats and they were throwing rocks and a number of
other things. And he said he didnt know there were any
whole thing is part
signs out there anymore but there is a sign. Somebody in
of our culture. I
Stevens Point, his license plate is PARR, so he must be a
member, I see it every now and then. Racism still exists,
think a lot of
and we may never eliminate it. It just escalates
people don t
sometimes. I got a call several years ago from the police
department saying, because I work here that they know
understand that.
my name, they said, We have a young man in jail, we
were wondering if you could come down and figure out
what the problem is, he keeps saying I didnt do it, I didnt do it, this isnt my problem, and he was
rambling and crying, he was a young guy. I said, No I cant. I dont know him, but Ill see what I can
do. So we finally deciphered the problem. It was that 20 years ago these two guys were walking into a
bar and these two young Indian boys, wait no two Indian men, were walking into a bar and two young
white kids wanted some cigarettes. So they stopped these two men and said, Weve got ten dollars, will
you go in and get us a bottle of beer and some cigarettes? Cause we cant get them, so the men said,
Sure, and they took the ten dollars went in the bar and never came out and kept his ten dollars. Well
these guys, 10 years or 20 years later, these two young boys are now adults; theyre walking into a bar,
and theres a young Indian guy sitting there, so they get into this big fight, and the Indian kid ends up
beating up this guy, and the problem is the Indian kid is the one who gets turned in. They got these other
guys there too, and in talking about this whole situation these two white boys grew up, still thinking about
how these Indians took their 10 dollars. They started the fight and they ended up in jail. Anyway, its like
10 years later this was the same Indian guy, but its not, but it was like a mental situation, I didnt know
how to deal with it. It was crazy, and those are the kinds of things that happen.
Do you know any role models or key leaders in your nations history?
A lot of our buildings are named after people, like one of the centers. Theres a building in Oneida where
they used to have the alternate school, the Tribal school, used to be there, government offices were in
there, and just a lot of things. There used to be an old seminary, priests used to study there, because its
right smack dab in the middle of Oneida, when the seminary closed they purchased all the grounds
around it to make a Tribal building, its called a Norbert Hill Center. Hill died years ago and in peoples
faith they still know who he was, he was an important Oneida Chief. We have a casino that is named after
a woman, I cant remember her name right now, but she was a tribal leader. Theres a woman, still living,
her name is Loretta Metoxen I think shes an Oneida, shes probably 80 years old, I think shes as old as
my mother. Shes actually one of my dads relatives, well mine too, but three or four generations
removed, and she used to be very instrumental and really a good with things, traveling to Washington and
arguing with legislators, and bringing money into the community for the Tribal school. I think for me
shes a real female role model. So there are a lot of elders that are still role models as well.
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How has gaming affected your life?

Gaming is part of our culture, gambling, that whole thing is part of our culture. I think a lot of people
dont understand that, a lot of those ceremonies involved having fun with games and gambling, and they
might have been gambling horses or blankets or that kind of stuff, as opposed to money. Thats one of
the things people are arguing against, illegalizing gaming in Wisconsin with the tribes. Why should we
allow them to have gaming its not part of their culture when in fact it is. Its something that we always
used to do. As far as its impacted; it has a positive impact on all the tribes, because its a fun thing.
Gambling isnt just making everybody rich, I receive from the Oneida eight hundred dollars a year, so
thats as much as I get out of the whole thing. Gaming really funds the Tribal school; it funds the elders
programs, it provides homes for some people. Just anything that needs funding, they contribute to it, a
big part to education, so kids can get scholarships to go to school. Negatively, I would say that gaming
has created some problems in families, because of the long hours people are working. My sister
developed asthma because of the smoke filled building she was working in, and smoking hasnt been
outlawed in most, so she transferred her job to the office, which doesnt have smoking, like the floor did.
She used to work on the floor, so shes much better. There used to be Latch Key Kids. I dont know if
youve ever heard of that, young children that were home when their parents worked with out a
babysitter, they are called Latch Key Children because they werent old enough to be staying home alone.
There might have been a 9 or 10 year old that was babysitting. I think gaming for a little while created
Latch Key Children. People are leaving their kids home, they put them to bed then theyd go to work and
then theyd come back home to wake them up. It was probably ok because there were kids that slept all
night, but what if one of them got up and decided to play with matches or something; anything could
happen. They could have taken off down the street. Now theyve got a handle on that, they have day care
centers, so its getting better. So, on the positive side; its really helped the communities develop in all
the money, and for jobs.
Are there any major political issues?
Not being involved with politics, I dont know.

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