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Main Topics => Drug Synthesis & Extraction => Topic started by: German on December
03, 2009, 08:49:05 PM
Title: LSD from HBWR

Post by: German on December 03, 2009, 08:49:05 PM
Anyone try extracting the %0.25 LSA and other LSD amides from HBWR seeds and
then converting to LSD-25? I think this is going to be my next project and I just want
to get feedback from anyone who may have attempted it before. The Erowid vault is
the best source I've found so far but even their couple writeups seem to be
questioned by some as the best way to go about it.
Title: Re: LSD from HBWR

Post by: Naf1 on December 03, 2009, 10:36:51 PM
Could you post the write ups you are looking at?

Part 1
First you do one of these two LSA extraction methods:
The method is very simple, requires nothing you can't buy easily and legally, and it's
not very expensive. There are refinements galore to this, and I might try them in
order to purify this stuff, but the chemicals aren't as available, and it requires things
like pH paper, which I don't know how to get. Maybe I can get some anyway. I'll see.
First of all, you need either (a) a lot of morning glory seeds or (b) some hawiian baby
woodrose seeds. You also need petroleum ether, which is a petroleum refining
byproduct, and some high proof drinkable ethanol.
I'll explain the theory as I understand it so that you can understand the flexability in
this recipe.
There are two kinds of solvents, polar and nonpolar. Generally, the good stuff in
seeds is polar soluble, and the bad stuff is nonpolar soluble.
So the idea is to first make a nonpolar solution, which of course means that you take
a nonpolar solvent and soak the ground up seeds in it. The result is a solution of
garbage from the seeds and the nonpolar solvent. Petroleum ether is a nonpolar
solvent, so it will function in this capacity. The down side is that petroleum ether is
poisonous, so you don't want to drink it. The good news is that pet. ether is
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extremely volatile, so it evaporates quickly and cleanly. So the first stage is to soak
the ground up seeds in petroleum ether for a few days, and then filter the resulting
cloudy solution through some coffee filters, throw away the solution, and keep the
seed mush. The seed mush consists of nondisolved LSA's, fiber, and the remaining
solution that didn't drip through the filter. This part can be iterated to get more and
more garbage out of the mush. The final time, let the seed mush dry thoroughly so
that the petroleum ether evaporates and you don't have any poison in there.
After the seed mush dries, the nest stage is to make a polar solution, which
separates the alkaloids (the LSA) from the fiber of the seeds. This is done with
alcohol. There are other polar solvents, but again, the key is to have one which easily
evaporates, one which will not destroy the LSA's, and one which is not poisonous.
Ethanol serves this purpose. Methanol will also work, but methanol causes blindness,
so if you use methanol, make damn sure it's all evaporated before consuming the
product. In some states ethanol is illegal, and California is such a state. In that case,
using methanol is probably the way to go. Also keep in mind that there is such thing
as denatured ethanol, which is ethanol which has been intentionally poisoned so that
it is undrinkable. The reason for doing this is that drinkable ethanol is taxable under
the Tobacco Alcohol and Firearms people, and denatured ethanol has uses in
chemistry and cleaning. The point is that you should under no circumstances use
denatured ethanol because it will make you sick or kill you or cause cancer or all
three. So, make an alcohol solution of the seeds. Then filter the solution through
filter paper, like before, except this time keep the liquid in a jar. Repeat this step 3 or
4 times, always keeping the liquid. When you've exhausted the seeds, throw them
away. The liquid you have should be yellow and smelly. Put this in a shallow flat tray
or pan or large bowl, and let it evaporate in a dark dry place for a day or two, or until
there is no liquid. The pan should have a yellowish scum residue. That's the LSA
gunk. Scrape that up with a razor blade or credit card or whatever works. It'll be
sticky and gummy, and once it's all scraped up it will look dark brown.
That's pretty much all there is to it. You can take this several steps further to get a
more pure product. That would be to alternately make an acid solution and base salts
from the LSA's, which would eventually leave you with a very pure white powder.
This requires much more effort, and wastes some of the product, and the only reason
for doing it would be to remove more garbage, but the amount of garbage left in the
brown gunk is insignificant.
Once you have this stuff as pure as you want it, you can ingest it in your favorite
form. You can either swallow it as a lump, put it into a gelatin capsule, drink the
ethanol solution, or dissolve it in some cool-aid. I recommend either capsules or
swallow the lump if you can handle the taste.
Other notes: Petroleum ether is in Naptha, which is available in hardware stores.
That's what I've used, and it works fine. [However, see this warning about Naptha]
Other petroleum solvents would work like ethyl ether, which evaporates much more
easily and is a better solvent, and something like gasoline, which has additives and
does not evaporate as cleanly as naptha. If you can get petroleum ether from a
chemical supplier, try it instead of naptha. A rule of thumb is that after making a
solution with the nonpolar solvent, and after it dries, it should smell absolutely
nothing at all like petroleum, or whatever solvent you used. If you use gasoline,
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you'll notice a strong gasoline smell, which means you're screwed. I know first hand
from repeated experience that naptha works. Also, read the labels of whatever
solvent you use. Make sure it contains no benzene. Benzene is the most evil
carcinogen known, and even in trace amounts it can cause cancer. There is no safe
amount of benzene. On the other hand benzene is everywhere, and if some chemical
engineer points out to you that there is benzene in naptha even if it's not on the label
keep in mind that there is an enormous amount of benzene in automobile exhaust.
You're going to die anyway. If there is no mention of carcinogens or benzene on the
label of the naptha, then there isn't enough such that you should not use it.
The finer details of this recipe I can give you another time, but I just wanted to give
you some theory and a general idea of what the procedure is. I can give you some
things I have from off the net pertaining to this.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Subject: Re: Extracting LSA from HBWR
Concerning the extraction and purification of LSA from HBWR, The alkaloids are
more polar than e.g. DMT or mescaline, and are probably water soluble to some
extent. Thus, while a crude extraction can be performed with methanol, the next
stage of purification may not be very good. Thus the general extraction method
for alkaloids is quite possibly not applicable here. That is why I want to have a
look at exactly what the original method was, although the journal seems obscure
to say the least. Another day in the Chem Abs section, I fear.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Subject: Re: LSA
>Yup. In a nutshell, you mix the HWBR powder in a nonpolar solvent, keep the
>resultant gunk(I) and throw away the solution. Then dissolve the gunk(I)
>into a polar solvent, throw away the new gunk(II) and evaporate the solution.
>The final gunk (III) that comes out of the solution has LSA in it.
>
> gunk(I) = gunk(II) + gunk(III)
> gunk(III) is the good stuff
> gunk(II) is not
> gunk(I+III) are therefore kept
>
>nonpolar solvent = petroleum ether
>polar solvent = alcohol (methanol is better, but is a smidgin poisinous
> so you've got to be damn sure its all evaporated).
OR
(E.W. Hand) writes :
>Does anyone know about the validity of extracting lysergic acid
>from Hawaiian Wood Rose seeds or Morning Glory seeds. According
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>to the Anarchists Cookbook, althought many on this news group

>seem to question the A.C., you can through a simple process.
K. Lewis responded :
1. HBWR and MG seeds don't contain lysergic acid, they contain various
amides of lysergic acid (but not di-ethyl amide).
2. It can be done. I wouldn't trust the A.C. method, though. It purports to be
a method for converting the stuff into LSD, which it is clearly not. Although
LSD is ~100 times as potent as LSAs, the recommended A.C. dosage
_after_ conversion is nearly double the alt.drugs FAQ recommended dosage.
This indicates it's probably a simple extraction which is 50% efficient.
3. If your purpose is to ingest LSAs, you might as well eat (or grind and
stick up your butt or chew) the seeds themselves. If you are going to use
it as an LSD precursor, most chemists recommend ergot instead.
That said, here's an old article I saved on extraction.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------EXTRACTION:
The method I use is a general one - I copied it from one used by some scientists to
extract mescaline from peyote, but I have since seen close variations used on many
plants. This procedure is followed, whenever a plant is studied for its alkaloids.
A few ingredients and bits of equipment are necessary. I am a chemist, and have my
own chemistry set. I have considered manufacture, but I find that there are enough
interesting things to do just extracting natural compounds, which is much easier,
indeed, possible in the home.
You will need:

A few flasks, glass containers, etc. of suitable sizes, depending on how large a
volume you are playing with.
A separating funnel is almost essential - this could be tricky to get without a little
effort. If you don't know, it is an inverted conical flask with a hole at the top to pour
stuff in , and a tap at the bottom to let the stuff out accurately . It is used for
separating immiscible layers.
A vacuum filtration apparatus would be very useful; I did have a bodgy one rigged up
myself, but it was always difficult to use. Some kind of still, though, is pretty
important to have, although conceivably for a once off you could get by without it, if
you don't mind breathing in a lot of solvent.
As far as still goes it is to recover solvent, and leave goodness as a residue at the
bottom. I use a bit of quickfit I nicked: a round bottom flask, short column,
thermometer on top, and a small condenser... takes for ever, but don't expect to
follow this procedure in anything under a day.
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Other bits and pieces:

A filtre of some sort is a necessity; preferably a good one, with a vacuum pump if
you are filtring gluggy stuff (cactus is the worst, sticky goo, e.g., other things like
seeds and bark are better). People have been known to use such devices as coffee
filtres, t-shirts, tins with holes in the bottom (as a filtre press) and so on. Whatever
you can scrounge. A lab buchner funnel, sidearm flask, and venturi pump are ideal.
All this stuff is standard in any chemical lab, regardless of discipline.
Chemicals necessary:
The paydirt (obviously)
Some solvents: methanol (lots), and a non polar solvent. Some people use ether this is dangerous and doesn't dissolve everything. Your best bet is probably
something chlorinated - I use dichloromethane, although chloroform will do (don't
breath too much - it is fun at first, but ends up making you feel ill). Drycleaning
fluid... petrol.... I don't know what you have access to.
Dichloromethane is good because it is non-toxic, volatile, and a good solvent. [Erowid
Note: Dichloromethane was formerly thought to be very safe, but has been shown to
be highly carcinogenic and toxic. Scorecard.org. May 2005] It has a major drawback:
separation is often very difficult once you have placed your gluggy plant muck in
there. The shot is to use large quantities of everything, and be patient.
You will also need an acid (Hydrogen chloride is good) and a base/alkali (Sodium
hydroxide is good - that way, if you stuff up, you end up synthesizing salt instead of
something nasty.)
Also useful: acid/base indicator paper, boiling chips (porcelain grains) and activated
charcoal - see local chemist.
The idea is this:
Most fun compounds (the only exception is maybe THC, and alcohol if you count that)
are basic - they contain nitrogen.
So: in general, if you react them with hydrochloric acid, the form a water soluble
chloride. If you react them with dilute base in the aqueous phase, they go back to
being a base, which is insoluble in water, but soluble in organic non-polar solvents
(like CH2Cl2). So, the theory is, that only a base will go from water to solvent and
back to water etc. when changed from acidic to basic and back to acidic. This gives
you a way of removing all the other crap which is not alkaloid from a sample. That is
the theory. When I do this, if I can get down to some brown or green sludge that I
can throw down or smoke, I am happy with a good days work. Ideally, you should
end up with lovely white crystals, but I think that would require a lot of time and
effort, and indeed a considerable loss of product in the process.
Procedure:
Get your stuff.
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Dry it as much as possible - this makes life easier later on. You will never get all the
water out, but too bad.
Chop it up as fine as possible: a blender comes in handy. You may wish to chop then
dry. A word of caution : try to avoid exposing your stuff to excessive heat. I dry in
low heat oven. Heat and air destroy good compounds from upwards of 100 degs C.
All this bit will depend on exactly what you are extracting.
Once it is finely divided - powdered if possible, put it in a big container, and cover it
with methanol. Alternatives to methanol here are ethanol (not as good) and acetone
(good solvent - rips the crap out of anything, but is more reactive - can react with
your actives).
Now, depending on what your stuff is, you have to let the methanol have time to
remove it all. This is best done by leaving in a quiet warm place for a few days, even
up to a week, and shaking it occasionally so it is mixed. Some papers recommend
solvent extraction (soxhlet apparatus) and refluxing at the boiling point of the
methanol (80 degs or so - I can't remember). I usually just rely on time to get the
good stuff out.
When you are ready (early in the morning), filtre the muck, to give you
methanol+dissolved brown gunk, and a residue soaked with methanol. The residue
still contains a lot of good stuff, so soak again for an hour, and repeat, and do a third
time if you are feeling generous (3 is the magic number in extraction work).
When you are done, there is another thing you can do finally, if desired: depending
on what your stuff is, mix it up with dilute hydrochloric acid, 1M is appropriate. let
stand for an hour, then filtre (this may be very difficult) That will get the last of the
alkaloids out of the substrate.
You now have a methanol-plant stuff mixture, and a dilute HCL-plant stuff mixture, if
you bothered to do that part.
Evaporate the methanol, to leave a small amount of goo. This will contain water, a bit
of methanol, and all kinds of resins and muck, and if you are lucky, the alkaloids.
If a very quick and crude extraction was all that was desired, then after stripping the
last of the methanol with vacuum if possible, this residue could be smoked eaten or
whathaveyou. I leave that to your discretion. However, if a cleaner product is
desired, the double layer extraction will need to be performed.
Combine the evaporated methanol gunge with the hydrochloric acid filtrate if you
have any. If you don't then mix the methanol stuff with an excess of dilute (1M) HCl.
Feel free to filtre again at this point. Anything of marginal solubility here is no good
to you. Get the stuff as clean as possible. Boiling with activated charcoal is another
useful trick for removing gunge. Just boil it up, and filter off the charcoal for a cleaner
brew.
You should now have an acid aqueous solution of alkaloids and water solubles from
the plant.
Take your acidic solution, and bassify. This is done by mixing in dilute sodium
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hydroxide (I use up to 5M to save on total volume. Be careful with conc NaOH - apart
from eating skin, it eats alkaloids) As you mix in the NaOH, you will see swirls of
white precipitate form and redissolve. Continue until the white swirls stay, and until
the solution is quite cloudy. Indicator paper is necessary to see that the solution is
basic. If you can't get indicator paper, you can make an indicator by boiling up some
purple flowers. The dyes in most flowers go bright red in acid, and green in strong
alkali. Just a drop of dye and a drop of mixture should tell you what is acid or base.
The white precipitate is the alkaloids. The more the better.
Next, add equal volume of non-polar solvent (dichloromethane) to the mix. Place in
separating funnel, and shake. Separate. This may be very difficult or slow. Adding
more solvent, more basic water, etc. may help. Adding lots of salt to the water layer
will help break an emulsion. Ideally you want it do this step 3 times - to extract as
much as possible from the water layer into the organic. I find this part very difficult,
and you have to accept that you will lose quite a lot of material here. It is, however
probably easier with some plants that others: cactus is very difficult, barks and seeds
would be easier. Use plenty of salt, and agitate to separate. When you have finished
extraction, chuck the basic water layer. The solvent layer is kept, and can be
backwashed with salty water for a cleaner mixture.
The solvent can now be dried, (using salt or some dry powder, the filtred) (I don't
usually bother with this - the old hairdryer at the end can remove some last solvent
and water) then strip the solvent in a vacuum to get your final product - some kind of
syrup could be expected. This is super concentrated, but may only be half the
strength of the original. e.g. put in enough for 10 doses of morning glory seeds, get
back 5 doses or more of concentrated alkaloids.
If it is desired to take the process still further, you can do the obvious thing - mix
your solvent layer with dilute acid again and extract back into water. Acid layer could
be evaporated under vacuum to give salts of alkaloids. Alternatively, if the organic
layer were scrupulously dry, bases could be salted out with some organic acid - a
tartrate, oxalate could be formed. I have never bothered with such things - you
would need a lot of pure extract to be bothered.
The acid-base extraction process can be continued as many times as is desired.
If a truly pure product is desired, the only way to go from here is chromatography. I
have never used this at home, and wouldn't think it was worth the trouble, but there
will be papers available on what was used for a particular extraction case.
Part 2
Then take that LSA and other amides and do this:
LSD-25 Synthesis from "Psychedelic Guide to the Preparation of the Eucharist"
Preparatory arrangements
Starting material may be any lysergic acid derivative, from ergot on rye grain or from
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culture, or morning glory seeds or from synthetic sources. Preparation #1 uses any
amide, or lysergic acid as starting material. Preparations #2 and #3 must start with
lysergic acid only, prepared from the amides as follows:
10 g of any lysergic acid amide from various natural sources dissolved in 200 ml of
methanolic KOH solution and the methanol removed immediately in vacuo. The
residue is treated with 200 ml of an 8% aqueous solution of KOH and the mixture
heated on a steam bath for one hour. A stream of nitrogen gas is passed through the
flask during heating and the evolved NH3 gas may be titrated is HCl to follow the
reaction. The alkaline solution is made neutral to congo red with tartaric acid,
filtered, cleaned by extraction with ether, the aqueous solution filtered and
evaporated. Digest with MeOH to remove some of the coloured material from the
crystals of lysergic acid.
Arrange the lighting in the lab similarly to that of a dark room. Use photographic red
and yellow safety lights, as lysergic acid derivatives are decomposed when light is
present. Rubber gloves must be worn due to the highly poisonous nature of ergot
alkaloids. A hair drier, or, better, a flash evaporator, is necessary to speed up steps
where evaporation is necessary.
Preparation #1
Step I. Use Yellow light
Place one volume of powdered ergot alkaloid material in a tiny roundbottom flask and
add two volumes of anhydrous hydrazine. An alternate procedure uses a sealed tube
in which the reagents are heated at 112 C. The mixture is refluxed (or heated) for 30
minutes. Add 1.5 volumes of H2O and boil 15 minutes. On cooling in the refrigerator,
isolysergic acid hydrazide is crystallised.
Step II. Use Red light
Chill all reagents and have ice handy. Dissolve 2.82 g hydrazine rapidly in 100 ml 0.1
N ice-cold HCl using an ice bath to keep the reaction vessel at 0 C. 100 ml ice-cold
0.1 N NaNO2 is added and after 2 to 3 minutes vigorous stirring, 130 ml more HCl is
added dropwise with vigorous stirring again in an ice bath. After 5 minutes, neutralise
the solution with NaHCO3 saturated sol. and extract with ether. Remove the aqueous
solution and try to dissolve the gummy substance in ether. Adjust the ether solution
by adding 3 g diethylamine per 300 ml ether extract. Allow to stand in the dark,
gradually warming up to 20 C over a period of 24 hours. Evaporate in vacuum and
treat as indicated in the purification section for conversion of iso-lysergic amides to
lysergic acid amides.
Preparation #2
Step I. Use Yellow light
5.36 g of d-lysergic acid are suspended in 125 ml of acetonitrile and the suspension
cooled to about -20 C in a bath of acetone cooled with dry ice. To the suspension is
added a cold (-20 C) solution of 8.82 g of trifluoroacetic anhydride in 75 ml of
acetonitrile. The mixture is allowed to stand at -20 C for about 1.5 hours during
which the suspended material dissolves, and the d-lysergic acid is converted to the
mixed anhydride of lysergic and trifluoroacetic acids. The mixed anhydride can be
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separated in the form of an oil by evaporating the solvent in vacuo at a temperature

below 0 C, but this is not necessary. Everything must be kept anhydrous.
Step II. Use Yellow light
The solution of mixed anhydrides in acetonitrile from Step I is added to 150 ml of a
second solution of acetonitrile containing 7.6 g of diethylamine. The mixture is held in
the dark at room temperature for about 2 hours. The acetonitrile is evaporated in
vacuo, leaving a residue of LSD-25 plus other impurities. The residue is dissolved in
150 ml of chloroform and 20 ml of ice water. The chloroform layer is removed and
the aqueous layer is extracted with several portions of chloroform. The chloroform
portions are combined and in turn washed with four 50 ml portions of ice-cold water.
The chloroform solution is then dried over anhydrous Na2SO4 and evaporated in
vacuo.
Preparation #3
This procedure gives good yield and is very fast with little iso-lysergic acid being
formed (its effect are mildly unpleasant). However, the stoichometry must be exact
or yields will drop.
Step I. Use White light
Sulfur trioxide is produced in anhydrous state by carefully decomposing anhydrous
ferric sulfate at approximately 480 C. Store under anhydrous conditions.
Step II. Use White light
A carefully dried 22 litre RB flask fitted with an ice bath, condenser, dropping funnel
and mechanical stirrer is charged with 10 to 11 litres of dimethylformamide (freshly
distilled under reduced pressure). The condenser and dropping funnel are both
protected against atmospheric moisture. 2 lb of sulfur trioxide (Sulfan B) are
introduced dropwise, very cautiously stirring, during 4 to 5 hours. The temperature is
kept at 0-5 C throughout the addition. After the addition is complete, the mixture is
stirred for 1-2 hours until some separated, crystalline sulfur trioxidedimethylformamide complex has dissolved. The reagent is transferred to an airtight
automatic pipette for convenient dispensing, and kept in the cold. Although the
reagent, which is colourless, may change from yellow to red, its efficiency remains
unimpaired for three to four months in cold storage. An aliquot is dissolved in water
and titrated with standard NaOH to a phenolphthalein end point.
Step III. Use Red light
A solution of 7.15 g of d-lysergic acid mono hydrate (25 mmol) and 1.06 g of lithium
hydroxide hydrate (25 mmol) in 200 ml of MeOH is prepared. The solvent is distilled
on the steam bath under reduced pressure. the residue of glass-like lithium lysergate
is dissolved in 400 ml of anhydrous dimethyl formamide. From this solution about
200 ml of the dimethyl formamide is distilled off at 15 ml pressure through a 12 inch
helices packed column. the resulting anhydrous solution of lithium lysergate left
behind is cooled to 0 C and, with stirring, treated rapidly with 500 ml of SO3-DMF
solution (1.00 molar). The mixture is stirred in the cold for 10 minutes and then 9.14
g (125.0 mmol) of diethylamine is added. The stirring and cooling are continued for
10 minutes longer, when 400 ml of water is added to decompose the reaction
complex. After mixing thoroughly, 200 ml of saturated aqueous saline solution is
added. The amide product is isolated by repeated extraction with 500 ml portions of
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ethylene dichloride. the combined extract is dried and then concentrated to a syrup
under reduced pressure. Do not heat up the syrup during concentration. the LSD may
crystallise out, but the crystals and the mother liquor may be chromatographed
according to the instructions on purification.
Purification of LSD-25
The material obtained by any of these three preparations may contain both lysergic
acid and iso-lysergic acid amides. Preparation #1 contains mostly iso-lysergic
diethylamide and must be converted prior to separation. For this material, go to Step
II first.
Step I
Use darkroom and follow with a long wave UV The material is dissolved in a 3:1
mixture of benzene and chloroform. Pack the chromatography column with a slurry of
basic alumina in benzene so that a 1 inch column is six inches long. Drain the solvent
to the top of the alumina column and carefully add an aliquot of the LSD-solvent
solution containing 50 ml of solvent and 1 g LSD. Run this through the column,
following the fastest moving fluorescent band. After it has been collected, strip the
remaining material from the column by washing with MeOH. Use the UV light
sparingly to prevent excessive damage to the compounds. Evaporate the second
fraction in vacuo and set aside for Step II. The fraction containing the pure LSD is
concentrated in vacuo and the syrup will crystallise slowly. This material may be
converted to the tartrate by tartaric acid and the LSD tartrate conveniently
crystallised. MP 190-196 C.
Step II. Use Red light
Dissolve the residue derived from the methanol stripping of the column in a minimum
amount of alcohol. Add twice that volume of 4 N alcoholic KOH solution and allow the
mixture to stand at room temperature for several hours. Neutralise with dilute HCl,
make slightly basic with NH4OH and extract with chloroform or ethylene dichloride as
in preparations #1 or #2. Evaporate in vacuo and chromatograph as in the previous
step.
Lysergic acid compounds are unstable to heat, light and oxygen. In any form it helps
to add ascorbic acid as an anti- oxidant, keeping the container tightly closed,
light-tight with aluminum foil, and in a refrigerator.
Synthesis of d-LSD maleate or tartrate from lysergic acid with POCl3
Ref:
Johnson, Ary, Teiger, Kassel. "Emetic Activity of Reduced Lysergamides." Journal of
Medicinal Chemistry. 16(5):532-537. 1973.
Related:
Huang, Marona-Lewicka, Pfaff, Nichols. "Drug Discrimination and Receptor Binding
Studies of N-Isopropyl Lysergamide Derivates." Pharmacology, Biochmistry and
Behavior. 47(3):667-673, 1994.
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Oberlender, Pfaff, Johnson, Huang, Nichols. "Stereoselective LSD-like Activity in

d-Lysergic Acid Amides of (R)- and (S)-2-Aminobutane." Journal of Medicinal
Chemistry. 35(2):203-211, 1992.
Hoffman-AJ, Nichols. "Synthesis and LSD-like Descriminative Stimulus Properties in a
Series of N(6)-alkyl Norlysergic Acid N,N-Diethylamide Derivates." Journal of
Medicinal Chemistry. 28:1252-1255, 1985.
NOTE: JMC 35(2):203-211 has some amazing stereoviews of LSD which might
interest non-chemists who like to cross their eyes.
Under reduced light (or red light) a stirred solution of 3.15g (11 mmol) of d-lysergic
acid monohydrate and 4.45g (99 mmol) of diethylamine was brought to reflux by
heating. Heat was removed, and reflux was maintained by the addition of 2ml (3.4g,
22mmol) of phosphorous oxychloride (POCl3) over a 2 minute period. The mixture
was then refluxed for an additional 4-5 mins until an amber-colored solution resulted.
The solution was brought to room temperature and was washed with 200ml of 1M
NH4OH. The CHCl3 solution was dried (MgSO4), filtered, and concentrated under
vacuum (not allowing the solution to exceed 40 degrees C). The last traces of the
solvent were removed at 2-5 mm. The viscious residue was dissolved in a minimum
amount of MeOH and acidified with a freshly prepared 20% solution of maleic acid in
MeOH. Crystallization occured spontaneously. The needles were filtered, washed with
cold MeOH and air-dried. Yield was 66% after further purification by column
chromatography over alumina (Brockman) and elution with 3:1 benzene-chloroform.
The chromatography takes appx 8-9 hours. Alternatively, it can be crystallized as the
(+)-tartrate from MeOH. After crystallizing from cold MeOH, it is diluted with ethyl
acetate, filtered and the the crystals are washed with ethyl acetate.
This procedure also works for primary amines and small dialkyl amines. LSD,
however, probably remains the most worthwhile product. Other interesting amines
might be the N-ethyl-N-propyl derivative (LEP) and the morpholide (LSM-775). 75ug
of the morpholide have been reported to have been as effective as 50ug of d-LSD but
with 45 min onset (vs 1 hour) and a 1 hour peak (vs 4 hours). The procedure would
probably work well for LEP, but yields would be reduced for the morpholide. Other
N(20)-alkyl-lysergic acid derivatives tend to be more than 10 times less potent than
LSD if not effectively inactive. N(6)-ethyl- (and -allyl- and -propyl-) derivates of LSD
may be more active than LSD itself, but synthetic routes to these chemicals presently
start with LSD and yields would probably inhibit their appearance on the illicit
market. (N(6) is the other nitrogen on the ring structure in addition to the N(1)
pyrrole/indole nitrogen). Derivatives of LSD (besides LSA/LA-111 and lysergic acid)
are not scheduled, but would be prosecutable under the designer drugs act after
testimony from a DEA agent that _in their opinion_ the defendant was planning to
distribute them.

Post by: JohnSanders on December 04, 2009, 01:03:09 AM
For the longest time I saw this as the only way to make LSD...Though its not really
worth it.
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In order to get anywhere around the amount of LSD worth making (10+grams) you'd
need around 50,000 HBWR. The cheapest I found was 11,000 seeds for 500 dollars.
Assuming you found the right way to extract them (Uncle Fester's seems to be the
most logical) you'd have over 20 pounds of seeds to grind up and extract. 50,000
seeds. Thats a lot of seeds for 10 grams of LSA. Which would be 2 grams of LSD
assuming you got a 20% yield.
If you look into it further you can see that its really not .25% per seed, its 25% of all
alkoilds in the seeds.
"Alkaloid content of Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds
Ergine
22.68 0.136
Isoergine
31.36 0.188
Ergometrine
8.20 0.049
Lysergic alpha-OH-ethylamide
5.79 0.035
Isolysergic alpha-OH-ethylamide
3.98 0.024
The first number is the percentage of total alkaloid content and the second is
percentage of dry weight."
So each seed has .136 percent ergine/weight. So...
1 kilo of seeds... is 136mg of ergine, assuming perfect extraction with no impurites.
Times this by 5 kilos and you have 500mg. So even my 50,000 seeds assumption
isn't close.
Its just not possible.
A more simpler route is something such as ergocristine (what pickard used)
bromocristine (remove the bromo then convert) Paspalic acid, ergotamine, and some
other ergot chemicals that are much harder to convert..
Personally I've lost all hope to make LSD

Post by: Naf1 on December 05, 2009, 01:20:06 AM
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4992/37013773.png)
Secret Recipes- Hofmann Symposium
http://earthrites.org/invisible-college/IC-Beltane07sm.pdf (http://earthrites.org
/invisible-college/IC-Beltane07sm.pdf)

Post by: jon on December 05, 2009, 09:10:12 PM
dude just pm me for ergotmanine sources speaking to you german why you gotta
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make it hard???

Post by: quetzalcoatl on December 06, 2009, 03:48:01 AM
10g of LSD is 50,000 (200 microgram) hits. What the fuck are you gonna do with
50,000 hits?
You need 1g of LSD, tops. So, LSD from LSA is still feasible.
Although I would like to indicate some problems:
* HBWR Contain clavine alkaloids which will also be extracted, and then mess up the
reactions you gave, due to their lack of a carboxyl group. Morning glories are a much
purer source of ergine, but the trade off is less overall alkaloid content. (they still
contain clavine alkaloids.)
*
*
*
*
*
hydrazine - rocket fuel, watched, poisonous, explosive.

sulfur trioxide - precursor to sulphuric acid, reacts with water
lithium hydroxide hydrate
acetonitrile
dimethylformamide
All of the above are not simple to obtain.

Good luck to you however, brother. I wish you the best and I hope you are
successful.
look on the bright side, if you manage to synthesize even just a gram of LSD;
even slightly impure, thats still 5000 hits (200 mics) - a lifetime supply for you and
your friends.

Post by: shroomedalice on December 06, 2009, 04:10:56 AM
your going to have to chromatograph any thing comming off a plant for an acid
synth.
your products have to be very very pure and extreamly dry.
I would hate to try from natural products unless I had a good source of ergot (ie the
high yeilding purpurea types)
and these are very hard to get as they are locked down to my knowlage.
I would love to be wrong as the fungus if you have the right kind would be a great
way to go (yes I know about
the black fingers and toes)
I have found a bit of rye fungus but it was no were near good enough for synthesis.
13 of 39
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Truth there.
Im sure throwing a little chromatography onto the budding acid chemist's 'to-do' list
won't set him back
more than a day.
If chromatography was used to seperate the alkaloids, then HBWR could indeed be
used, since they yeild
a higher overall alkaloid content.
Ergot is illegal because of ergotism, burning in the extremeties, gangrene and death,
as you mentioned;
but I'd like to relay some information, that c. purpurea doesn't always produce
alkaloids, and depends on
a cool spring and a hot summer (iirc).
Somone already mentioned the other strain of claviceps but that is equally difficult to
obtain.
Some people just won't give up though, They'll end up making LSD come hell or high
water...
resourcefulness and sheer determination are the staples of many a good clandestine
chemist.

Quote from: quetzalcoatl on December 06, 2009, 04:47:39 AM
Some people just won't give up though, They'll end up making LSD come hell or high water...
resourcefulness and sheer determination are the staples of many a good clandestine chemist.
That's actually the only reason I carry my weight around here. I don't know
chemistry and am not able to contribute from that perspective, but I can fucking read
and follow directions just fine and as a result I can get things going just because I
really really fucking want to despite my lack of knowledge (yeah I know, a disaster
waiting to happen lol).
I've reserved myself to just buying erogtamine tartrate. This is a very very viable
way for someone only interested in personal use amounts like myself. A box of 100
pills of Cafergot with a total of 100mg of ergotamine tartrate in them (100 pills times
1mg each) costs $60. With that 100mg of ergotamine extracted from them (not sure
how to do yet) you can get 30mg LSD. With that 30mg LSD you can get yourself 300
doses. Now what in the world does one need more then 300 doses for if he is not
interested in selling??? You can make a lifetime's supply off of one $60 box of
Cafergot!
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Post by: Naf1 on December 06, 2009, 09:13:22 PM
CafErgot S = suppositories that are twice as strong (2mg) IIRC.

Post by: quetzalcoatl on December 06, 2009, 10:53:07 PM
I think if one should manage to come by sulphur trioxide, or hydrazine, etc
then it would be a waste to only use 100mg. It'd be best to run your hbwr
alkaloids and work on a gram. :)

Quote from: quetzalcoatl on December 06, 2009, 10:53:07 PM
I think if one should manage to come by sulphur trioxide, or hydrazine, etc
then it would be a waste to only use 100mg. It'd be best to run your hbwr
alkaloids and work on a gram. :)
I just quickly sourced those and it wouldn't be a problem, but the erogtamine method
requires none of those or anything at all difficult to obtain. Taken from Tihkal:
SYNTHESIS : A solution of 6.7 g KOH in 100 mL H2O, under an inert atmosphere and
magnetically stirred, was brought to 75 C, and 10 g ergotamine tartrate (ET) added.
The reaction mixture turned yellow as the ergotamine went into solution over the
course of 1 h. The stirring was continued for an additional 3 h. The reaction mixture
was cooled to about 10 C with an external ice bath, and acidified to a pH of about
3.0 by the dropwise addition of 2.5 N H2SO4. White solids started to appear early in
the neutralization; approximately 60 mL of sulfuric acid was required. The reaction
mixture was cooled overnight, the solids removed by filtration, and the filter cake
washed with 10 mL Et2O. The dry solids were transferred to a beaker, suspended in
50 mL 15 % ammonia in anhydrous ethanol, stirred for 1 h, and separated by
decantation. This extraction was repeated, and the original decantation and the
second extract combined and filtered to remove a few hundred milligrams of
unwanted solids. The clear filtrate was stripped of solvent under vacuum, the residual
solids dissolved in 50 mL of 1% aqueous ammonia, and this solution was acidified as
before with 2.5 N H2SO4. The precipitated solids were removed by filtration and
washed with Et2O until free of color. After drying under vacuum to a constant weight,
there was obtained 3.5 g of d-lysergic acid hydrate, which should be stored in a dark,
sealed container.
A suspension of 3.15 g d-lysergic acid hydrate and 7.1 g of diethylamine in 150 mL
CHCl3 was brought to reflux with stirring. With the external heating removed, there
was added 3.4 g POCl3 over the course of 2 min, at a rate sufficient to maintain
refluxing conditions. The mixture was held at reflux for an additional 5 min, at which
point everything had gone into solution. After returning to room temperature, the
solution was added to 200 mL of 1 N NH4OH. The phases were separated, the
organic phase dried over anhydrous MgSO4, filtered, and the solvent removed under
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vacuum. The residue was chromatographed over alumina with elution employing a
3:1 C6H6/CHCl3 mixture, and the collected fraction stripped of solvent under hard
vacuum to a constant weight. This free-base solid can be recrystallized from benzene
to give white crystals with a melting point of 87-92 C. IR (in cm-1): 750, 776, 850,
937 and 996, with the carbonyl at 1631. The mass spectrum of the free base has a
strong parent peak at mass 323, with sizable fragments at masses of 181, 196, 207
and 221.
This base was dissolved in warm, dry MeOH, using 4 mL per g of product. There was
then added dry d-tartaric acid (0.232 g per g of LSD base), and the clear warm
solution treated with Et2O dropwise until the cloudiness did not dispel on continued
stirring. This opaqueness set to a fine crystalline suspension (this is achieved more
quickly with seeding) and the solution allowed to crystallize overnight in the
refrigerator. Ambient light should be severely restricted during these procedures. The
product was removed by filtration, washed sparingly with cold methanol, with a cold
1:1 MeOH/Et2O mixture, and then dried to constant weight. The white crystalline
product was lysergic acid diethylamide tartrate with two molecules of methanol of
crystallization, with a mp of about 200 C with decomposition, and weighed 3.11 g
(66%). Repeated recrystallizations from methanol produced a product that became
progressively less soluble, and eventually virtually insoluble, as the purity increased.
A totally pure salt, when dry and when shaken in the dark, will emit small flashes of
white light.

Post by: JohnSanders on December 07, 2009, 12:44:01 AM
POCl3 is hard to get I believe, so this is another issue with Shulgins method. Though
its much easier than ET.

Post by: Naf1 on December 07, 2009, 02:13:55 AM
Hydrolysis to the parent carboxylic acid, then Hardisons peptide coupling route would
be the most user friendly procedure (IMHO).

I agree, although I was unsure about the legality of purchasing PyBOP.
I guess since it couples any random amines that it isn't particularly suspicious.
but buying chemical reagents is something that SWIM still remains very
cautious of, despite the rantings of some members on here.
Also, Is it a one-shot thing, or can the PyBOP be re-used?
PyBOP information:
http://chemicalland21.com/lifescience/phar/PyBOP.htm
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Post by: micro on December 07, 2009, 04:12:44 PM
There is a rahter long thread of this subject (well, partially, it is about extraction
mainly) Zoklet.nets's Flasks and Beakers forum.
http://zoklet.net/bbs/showthread.php?s=df4e09ec1ea9b1c5f604ab338134f3c6&
t=14328

OK, thats great. Thanks very much. Moving on..

Post by: shroomedalice on December 08, 2009, 07:49:15 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Curtius
wont work on simple amides like LSA though I belive.
I personaly would want to work with more than a gram the first few times as well or
you might find you loose it all to machanical loss.
smaller volumes are easier if you have the chromatography down as they are
solvated there
for making for bigger liquid volumes to work with.
crystalisation and epimerisation would be a hell of a job on a 30mg run.
read otto snows books on lsd in the library here.
well worth the read.
be very very carefull working with any of the reagents needed for this.
POCl3
hydrazine
and SO3
are not to be used unless you have years under your belt if you ask me.
why dont you think the synth is just being given out by people and there are quite a
few who do make
it to my knowlage.
one if every one had it in an open forum then kiss the shit goodbye as its number
one on the bad lists
for the DEA
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two if every one tried it probably 90% would kill them selves and thouse near to
them.
becarefull but by all means if you can work it out and put the time and money into
doing it safely dont
let me stop you just shut your mouth when you get it right.
a note on doseage :)
truly if your to be an acid cat the print is a must as is belived by most of the acid
comunity.
it gives the cat an idea of what acid can do to some one and hopfully makes them
honorable and
reponsible in its use/missuse
acid can be very very dangerous if in the wrong hands.
prints are in the reagon of 1mg and up.
once you have been printed forget 100 mics working for you again well not for many
many years anyway.
30mg is not as much as it seems and once you have acid watch it disapear to every
one you know.
I belive the stuff should not be sold but given away.
but given only to the right people.
some people do not fair well on acid.

Post by: 61-50-7 on December 16, 2009, 01:27:51 AM
Pills are quite a bit more expensive than natural sources imo. Speciosa is available in
bulk at $50 a key. Most people don't like the alkaloid profile for consumption of the
plant, but it still has a higher concentration of lsa's than morning glory seeds. The
alkaloid profile is meaningless for synthesis purposes since mild base hydrolysis
converts all the alkaloids to the direct precursor anyway.
Lets say instead of .25-.3% content like Nervosa, Speciosa has a content of .1% of
various ergoline compounds. This is a conservative ratio based on anecdotal
evidence. Thats $50 a gram.
Convert the crude mixture of ergolines into d-lysergic acid hydrate through mild base
hydrolysis and run that through a column.
Easier said than done, but don't get confused on price. This is well worth it. The
scale is still small, a 1 gram run requires the same amount of material as a 10g dmt
extraction.
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Quote from: shroomedalice on December 08, 2009, 07:49:15 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Curtius
wont work on simple amides like LSA though I belive.
There is probably another reaction which isn't harmful to the lysergic part.
Do you have an example of what is formed instead or any proper evidence?
I need more than just an incline to go on. ty
why dont you think the synth is just being given out by people and there are quite a few who do make
it to my knowlage.
one if every one had it in an open forum then kiss the shit goodbye as its number one on the bad lists
for the DEA
Who are you talking to? What questions are you answering?
I belive the stuff should not be sold but given away.
but given only to the right people.
I agree :) Or, If absoloutely necissary, then cost-price. Which shouldn't be very

much.
LSD Is a fantastic tool for introspection, development and evolution. all that stuff
that leary, kesey and other gurus said back in the 60's and 70's... it wasn't just
bollocks;
it really can expand your mind.

Quote from: 61-50-7 on December 16, 2009, 01:27:51 AM
The alkaloid profile is meaningless for synthesis purposes since mild base hydrolysis converts all the alkaloids
to the direct precursor anyway.
Not true.
Thanks a bunch for the info, but mitragynine (from speciosa) is nothing to do with
ergoline (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2d/Mitragynine.png
/200px-Mitragynine.png)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb
/8/80/Lysergic_acid_chemical_structure.png/180pxLysergic_acid_chemical_structure.png)
and a 'mild hydrolysis' isn't going to sort that. However, chromatography would be
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able to separate the LSA's; however I couldn't find any evidence anywhere of
speciosa containing any ergoline alkaloids, whatsoever.
help us out here... ?

Post by: Locked on February 26, 2010, 01:10:41 AM
I have been banging this one around for a bit.
First, basic math, which I probably do have all effed up, but...
.13% of dry weight is x.0013? That makes a kilo of HBWR yield 1000g x .0013 =
1.3g LSA, not .13g
Now if one combined the hydrolysis and extraction, tossing in a non-polar extraction
to remove crap before acidification, I think one might be on the right track. With the
a/b the solvent amount could be reduced to a manageable amount almost
immediately. If toluene/benzene was used the last bit could be dean stark-ed to
dryness, ready for HATU or one of the others.
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/ergocristine.html
That would also get the ergometrine to LSA.
Yeah, there would be a lot of iso- but those numbers are workable for the final
product. How many grams at a time are you thinking you can run through a column
at one time, anyway?

Post by: shroomedalice on February 26, 2010, 08:14:29 AM
any plant material will have to be chromatographed to obtain purity. these
compounds are heat sensitive and distillation is out of the question.

Post by: Locked on February 26, 2010, 03:08:31 PM
Yeah, run through a column after extraction/hydrolysis. I was only commenting on
the "10 grams" part by someone else, which is an awesome goal, but huge. To get
10g out of this source that would be more than 20g starting "purified" material, like
20 column runs! I know columns exist that can run 10g+ but I sure have never seen
one.
With HBWR it looks like even with mechanical losses one could be on the road to
tripping balls after an extraction/hydrolysis of ~4-5Kg, hoping for a g or more of the
correct lysergic acid, (6aR,9R)-7-methyl-4,6,6a,7,8,9-hexahydroindolo[4,3fg]quinoline-9-carboxylic acid.
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Or like was mentioned earlier, 10-20 boxes of those pills will get you to the same
place. I sort of like the romantic nature of "homespun" from those seeds to LSD...
After this treatment, how does one know which band is the winner? I know exactly
how one would test iso-lsd from lsd :), but LSA? Do both make you tired or just one?
HATU really looks like it rocks. After the other battles, that part actually is pretty
easy.
If one started with the correct LSA, the product should only need reXtal to a thing of
beauty if using HATU.

Post by: quetzalcoatl on February 26, 2010, 05:44:36 PM
Just wanted to point some attention toward the amount of HWBR needed, it could be
much less than the percentage given,
it could be much more. Its only an estimate.
Ergocystine is probably too expensive and too difficult buy imho.
'homespun acid' is where its at, man! It doesn't even need to be in a house, so long
as the right elements come together
under the right conditions.... :D

Post by: xxx on April 02, 2010, 07:36:18 PM
SO3 and Hydrazine Hydrate are not too hard to create...
Just a right pain in the arse.
Using the lab version of the contact process using Vanadium Pentoxide, I have made
small amounts of SO3 to add to purified H2SO4, small quantities, to get small
amounts of Oleum.
With Hydrazine... Well, here goes.
First, we use the well known method (I will post the article later) to get Hydrazine
Sulphate.
Next, we freebase that with Ca(OH)2.
Boom. Hydrazine Hydrate.
Now, I stop there because I have no reason to go farther, but IIRC one can distill in
an inert atmosphere to get Hydrazine (Anhydrous).
Just a word of warning about anhydrous hydrazine... It is, essentially, evil. Its vapors
seem to SEEK OUT ignition sources! Then, boom.

Post by: quetzalcoatl on April 04, 2010, 01:08:37 PM
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Yeah I know the hydrazine hydrate method, from urea and sodium hypochlorite in a
gelatin matrix right?
But do enlighten us about the SO3. AFAIK that had to be ordered or was extremely
dangerous.
Although considering the circumstances hydrazine and conc. fuming SO3 we're talkin'
six and half a dozen! LOL
a lovely sip of burn your retinas off, anyone? :P

Post by: Locked on April 04, 2010, 03:24:49 PM
The HBWR is actually looking better and better. After looking through other people's
books on the subject, the hbwr extraction is not even close to a new idea, but the
use of two phase and combining the hydrolysis with the initial extraction is. It should
rock.
One might think that Shulgin's(or KrZ's) KOH hydrolysis mix and temp would be
excellent used on ground up seeds in sufficient quantities to have them swim while
stirred. Toss on a non polar when the time is up to de-fat/wax/whatever. It is at this
stage and at the first acidification that emulsions will probably try to ruin your good
time. Vac filtering the mess through the ground seeds might be the hot ticket. Or one
could filter then centrifuge all of it like real labs do, but the volumes would suck for
5Kg seeds. The seeds and filtered mess could then be subjected to a second
hydrolysis/extraction.
Proceeding along the acid/base/acid workup, the emulsion at the first acidification, if
it occurs, is another story. It would be a bitch, so it probably will happen. Diatoms or
centrifuge and more non-polar are probably the best bets.
All of this should be done dark and under shielding gas.
After this, one would be home free to vac concentrate the non-polar to a reasonable
volume and proceed with Shulgin's path.
I say again, that the use of toluene for the non-polar at the end would allow you to
high vac evap/distill to anhydrous. Proper technique through the column would leave
you with both LA and iso-LA ready to go under septum seal for one of the new school
routes. Another column after you are done to remove the iso-LSD for KOH treatment
and you are almost illuminating.
Follow with maleic, reXtal and the pressing of heavy pills and one could help bring
back the summer of love just in time...
The newschool runs with expensive but easy to buy coupling agent of your choice in
trimethylamine(from Eschweiler-Clarke ammonia, formaldehyde and formic, I think)
and diethylamine(from DEET). There is no reason for the low yields anymore(except
for bad technique).
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Yeah, All of what you said about the extraction, and this: It should be no bother for a
seasoned home extractor with a coffee grinder, alot of vinegar, naptha, base, and
some practice under his cap. Okay, its a bit lossy, but nevertheless.
Coupling agents: They're actually not really that expensive either when you think
about it, $110 dollars for 25g should set you up with a lifetime supply of lysergic saur
diethylamid, as hoffman would say. totally worthwhile.
There is a big list of suitable peptide couplers available on the net somewhere, each
uses its own auxillary base but look it up, everyone. Spread the load that way. I'm
sure they'll be made watched or restricted in some way if we get a high number of
people dreaming of brewing bathtub acid, but what the heck.

Post by: xxx on April 04, 2010, 11:50:54 PM
Yep, you have the Hydrazine method down all right, though I prefer to extract it as
the Sulphate.
I will post the SO3 method later on, when I have time for a decent write up. Basically
it is reacting SO2 and O2 over hot vanadium pentoxide and collecting the SO3 in a
fucking freezing cold beaker, I will sketch/scan a diagram later, when I am less sleep
deprived...

Excellent, thanks bro. Still, sounds totally sketchy...

Post by: madprossor on May 06, 2010, 01:36:34 AM
might lysergic acid chloride be made by oxalyl chloride or (better yet) by TCCA?
can someone with stronger theory than myself predict how much better/worse these
reagents might perform than PCl5, POCl3, and SOCl2 which are all proven for this
task?

Post by: Locked on May 09, 2010, 01:54:46 AM
From my reading it looks like COMU is the winner coupling agent. Complete with
color change to let you know when it is done!
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Post by: quetzalcoatl on May 12, 2010, 01:24:47 PM
Yes the acid chloride route works, but for a food-safe, environment-friendly,
non-toxic homemade LSD tek, SOCL2 is a no-no. Its not available OTC so, most
people can't obtain it. If we want to saturate the world's supply of LSD and cement it
as a free, widly available religious sacrament, then we must eliminate the cost and
promote understanding of every aspect of it! including the food-safe, non-toxic,
environment friendly kitchen synthesis!

Post by: 61-50-7 on June 19, 2010, 05:39:25 AM
Quote from: quetzalcoatl on December 16, 2009, 07:20:11 AM
Quote from: 61-50-7 on December 16, 2009, 01:27:51 AM
The alkaloid profile is meaningless for synthesis purposes since mild base hydrolysis converts all the
alkaloids to the direct precursor anyway.
Not true.
Thanks a bunch for the info, but mitragynine (from speciosa) is nothing to do with ergoline
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2d/Mitragynine.png/200px-Mitragynine.png)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Lysergic_acid_chemical_structure.png/180pxLysergic_acid_chemical_structure.png)
and a 'mild hydrolysis' isn't going to sort that. However, chromatography would be able to separate the
LSA's; however I couldn't find any evidence anywhere of speciosa containing any ergoline alkaloids,
whatsoever.
help us out here... ?
The speciosa I was referring to was Argyrea nervosa var speciosa i.e. the cheaper
variety of hbwr. Not Kratom:) I should have been explicit.
Argyrea nervosa var speciosa is what the cheaper sources in India sell. It isn't as
potent as the Hawaiian strain, nor are the effects as desirable. Its cheap though,
50/key. Like I said if there are any appreciable quantities of alkaloids this would be
viable at the price. I can assure you the speciosa variety contains ergot alkaloids,
the experience is not near as pleasant as morning glory seeds or hbwr from hawaii,
but unmistakably ergoline in nature.
The hydrolysis converts many of the alkaloids into lsa does it not? I've always read
to conduct the hydrolysis on the crude extract before running a column. If the
hydrolysis converts more of the alkaloids into the desired compound this is a logical,
yield maximizing step, no?

Post by: Vesp on June 19, 2010, 06:08:11 AM
I don't personally feel that HBWR is really even an option -- I'd either think growing
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ergot culture, or total synthesis are the only two real ways to go about it. I could be
wrong, but it seems here that its mostly going to be a big waste of time playing with
muddy solutions from ground seeds, etc.

Post by: madprossor on June 26, 2010, 07:46:59 AM
On page 122 of LSD Chemistry Synthesis Production 2003 Otto Snow gives the 1972
Yugoslavian method for extraction from ergot.
It involves dissolving the alkaloids in a nonpolar solvent like TCE or DCM. it is then
passed through a column of activated alumina, adsorbing the alkaloids. the alkaloids
are then eleuted with for example ethyl acetate, or 1-2% methanol/ethanol in a
nonpolar solvent.
there are also methods using charcol or clay equivalently. is any one of these
particularly suited to the problem of extracting from seeds? did anyone try it? the
seeds will need to be basified before nonpolar extraction. the reference did not give
details, but i think it's the same with ergot? often ammonia gas is dissolved in the
nonpolar before extracting?

Post by: marakov on June 26, 2010, 08:53:25 AM
Quote from: Vesp on June 19, 2010, 06:08:11 AM
I don't personally feel that HBWR is really even an option -- I'd either think growing ergot culture, or total
synthesis are the only two real ways to go about it. I could be wrong, but it seems here that its mostly going
to be a big waste of time playing with muddy solutions from ground seeds, etc.
Liquid Ergot culture is proper way. Steel tank drum for it is best to make solution. It
can become a test factory from being a scale up to a the greater amount. There is a
future in here.

Post by: jon on June 26, 2010, 01:08:30 PM
has anyone thought about those zinc dehalogenation methods for bromocriptine.
i'd bet money they would work mainly the concern is that quaternary double bond
isomerizing.
it would have to be tested and analyzed.

Post by: madprossor on June 27, 2010, 04:58:56 AM
hi Marakov, do you know any tricks for the liquid culture? i was reading something
about triggering the fungus to make alkaloids by asphyxiating it.
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https://www.thevespiary.org/talk/index.php/topic,1039.0.html
This has a bit of information, might be useful -- feel free to add too it on anything
ergot related.
There is a good PDF folder running around with a great start of what you need to
know about claviceps purpurea you might have luck finding.

Post by: quetzalcoatl on June 30, 2010, 12:29:51 AM
@61-50-7 : Sorry man, totally bit your head off for no reason. I remember now
researching that plant for its ergot alkaloids. he's right everyone...
@Vesp: Im sure bumping into somone who can do a total synthesis is a possibility;
SWIM was just looking into alternates in the meantime.
So far he hasn't succeeded in finding any ergot to start a culture with, but sometimes
these plans can take a few years to come to fruition.

Quote
Im sure bumping into somone who can do a total synthesis is a possibility; SWIM was just looking into
alternates in the meantime.
Understandable, I was just thinking that ergot would have more potential than HBWR
and should be considered and looked into, it might even be easier -- however, I
guess that is obvious, and this is also great to look more into this, as you never know
what you may come across. HBWR could be a pretty decent way, not that I have any
real interest in it.

Post by: shroomedalice on July 20, 2010, 04:09:21 AM
I look everywere vesp no fungi for me :(

Post by: solidstone on October 15, 2010, 02:05:07 AM
Today I was browsing the hardware store and stumbled across a large box of 99%
pure phosphorous pentoxide. Why not make the acid chloride with POCl3. Just
extract some red phosphorous, chlorinate. use the PCl5 and P4O10 to make the
POCl3. It seems very straightforward once you have phosphoryl chloride. Ventilation
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and possibly a respirator would be needed, but those are pretty simple to rig up.

Post by: Vesp on October 15, 2010, 05:34:30 AM
What do you mean by the hardware store?

I mean an actual hardware store. Little mom and pop operation type. Believe it was
a wood bleaching agent or something of that nature. I'll pick some up come saturday
and inform as to the brand if thats appropriate.

Post by: jon on October 15, 2010, 09:48:10 AM
real vs. fake hwbr seed
http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/ArgyreiaID.htm
^ german are you sure the a. speciosa contain .1% ergot alkaloids?
if so, one could use water, tartaric acid, and montmorillonite clay to absorb the
alkaloids to reduce solvent use and avoid the hassle of extracting kilos of biomass
through columns.
most of the cheap stuff comes from india and they bait and switch sometimes.

Post by: psychoticpumpkin on October 15, 2010, 10:00:43 PM
Quote from: solidstone on October 15, 2010, 05:52:08 AM
I mean an actual hardware store. Little mom and pop operation type. Believe it was a wood bleaching agent
or something of that nature. I'll pick some up come saturday and inform as to the brand if thats appropriate.
I agree that would be much easier than working with oxidizing RP

Post by: jon on October 15, 2010, 10:34:03 PM
here is the scheme
grind the seed stir in 2% tartaric acid oxygen free water under inert enviroment
maybe add ascorbic acid as antioxadant.
filter through a cloth into a trash can and extract until uv indicates no more ergoline
in the mush.
use montmorillontie clay to absorb the alkaloids wash the clay with water and dry in
convection oven at 90C (no oxidation takes place as the alkaloids are entrained in the
clay.
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use solvent and base to extract the alkaloids i understand recovery is pretty efficient
and the hassle of rotovapping gallons of solvent is eliminated.
and production of pocl3 from p4o10 still requires phosphorous pentachloride not
exactly something that comes off a hardware store shelf and is probably watched
because of it's implications in nerve agents.

Post by: solidstone on October 15, 2010, 11:17:10 PM
phosphorous pentachloride can be made by gassing red phosphorous. If you take
the phosphorous tetra chloride and add it to some more red phosphorous it should
form PCl3.
Currently I'm dreaming up a crack pot idea for making white phosphorous quick and
easy. I'll post that in the appropriate thread and you guys can criticize at will.
Also I was curious if anyone knew the most recent route to LSD via ergocristine (it's
on the fast track to getting regulated but has yet to be).

Post by: overunity33 on October 16, 2010, 12:24:46 AM
SS: they say the only people that can make dose are the ones that can solve every
single practical problem on the way. Your question is a very simple chemistry
problem... P.S. ergocristine has been used since well before it became publicized in
the missile silo bust, I would recommend ignoring it as a precursor.

i can think of 3 ergolines that are'nt officially regulated and even aldrich will sell you
without paperwork but that does'nt mean they are'nt secretly watched.

Yeah think about it this way, if company X sells anything regulated they must submit
DEA paperwork and give them access to their purchase records. Since they have all
the companies records they can go through them with a fine tooth comb. If there are
suspicious chemical orders that do not include controlled chemicals they can't arrest
you immediately but will instead wiretap you/stake out your residence/trash pickups.
I would almost rather get popped right off the bat.
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umm that's what happens when you buy something off the "special surveillence list"
you get surveilled.
aldrich has thier own dea compliance dept.
but other companies don't give a shit they will keep records but probably won't ask
for your life history or a lot of questions it's doable with the right subterfuge but i
would'nt buy anything within the dea's jurisdiction or treaty nations.
think of nations w/o dea treaty's like china.
they don't even like americans so the only reason they woul be talking to you is for
cold hard cash.

they don't even like americans so the only reason they woul be talking to you is for
cold hard cash.
haha thats a very good point

Post by: Prometheus on October 17, 2010, 11:48:14 AM
Hi all! My first post here!
Claviceps paspali is quite a common fungus in some places. I have loads of it near
me at the right time of year. Not being set up to brew a culture, I decided to nibble
increasing amounts of the stuff to check for activity.
I got up to 3g of the sclerotia before giving up due to no activity and increasing
vasoconstriction.
Perhaps some of the vasoconstrictive but not active things could be useful.
I traded some with someone who was culturing them and looking at this under UV,
but he found nothing.
Seems the strain is all important.

Post by: timecube on October 18, 2010, 09:15:17 AM
Quote from: Prometheus on October 17, 2010, 11:48:14 AM
I decided to nibble increasing amounts of the stuff to check for activity.
Oh lord, don't eat it.

Post by: NaBH4 on October 19, 2010, 01:36:05 PM
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What about a strong base hydrolyse of Ergive to give lysergic acid, and then let react
it with diethylamine hydrochloride ?
Is that normal that I bought pure Diethylamine hcl salts at my drugstore ? I was like
"uhhh what ? you really sell that ?". It that normal or only because I'm french ?

yeah try it out diethylamine reacts with lysergic acid sure.

Post by: Vesp on October 19, 2010, 05:56:44 PM
What were they selling it for? That is strange. I don't think lysergic acid and
diethylamine hydrochloride just simply react.. do they?

of course they don't

Post by: NaBH4 on October 20, 2010, 08:38:45 PM
Of course, not only Lysergic acid and diethylamine but having easily findable that
chemical will helps ;D

Post by: director of sound on October 20, 2010, 08:39:43 PM
i have read a few synths (with out any real data though) that use a solution of
lysergic acid and diethylamine or another tritary amine in an alcohol sealed in a
'pipebomb' fashion that supposedly works, ill have to dig up the data i have on that
and post it later. but for now here is some stuff that might help. i have preformed
both and can assure you that they work.
Production of Pure D-lysergic acid monohydrate from LAA/Ergine containing plant
sources:
(all steps to be done under a red photographic light)
1.) 8 kg of HBWR seeds are ground to a fine powder with the assistance of dry ice or
liquid nitrogen.
2.) to the seeds is added a chilled (30*F) acidic methanol (80% MeOH/DH2O)
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solution of tartaric acid (saturated). the ammount needed is just enough to cover
the powder with 1cm of fluid and is allowed to stand cold for 24 hours in the dark.
more acidic methanol may be added as the seed powder absorbes it.
3.) after 24 hours the methanol is removed by vaccume to compleate dryness. the
seeds are then made into a slurry with DMF/DCM and loaded into a large column,
the DMF/DCM is allowed to drain through and more is added until test drops
evapurate with no residue. save the DMF/DCM filtate.
4.) the residual DMF/DCM is then removed by vaccume and the seed powder loaded
back into the column and filled with chilled MeOH and allowed to stand for 2hr before
draining. this is repeated 4 times and the methanol extracts combined, filtered and
reduced under vaccume to a small volume. cold ether is added to the methanol
solution
untill cloudiness does not dispell and is placed in a very cold fridge for the crystals to
set overnight. save this solution. this should afford 6-10g mixed LAA's as the
tartarate salt.
5.) the crystals are desolved in 200ml MeOH with 11g KOH and the methanol is
removed immediatly by vacuum as soon as the amide is desolved. the residue is
desolved in
200ml 8% KOH in DH2O and heated with a stream of nitrogen passed through it,
ammonia gas will be evolved and titrated with HCL to follow the reaction (HCl fumes
profusely in
the presence of ammonia gas). as soon as it is compleate cool the solution and slowly
add 2 or 3N sulfuric acid untill a PH of 3 is obtained, this will result in precipitation of
crude
D-lysergic acid monohydrate. save the solution.
6.) the crystals should be desolved in 200ml abs. EtOH containing a few ml of strong
ammonia (or gassed with anhydrous ammonia untill the solution has gained 3g) the
solids
that do not desolve within 1 hr are inorganic and can be discarded. filter the solution
through a column packed with 3in of 100 grit basic alumina/silica wetted with
anhydrous EtOH.
7.) the alcohol solution is again acidified with 2-3N sulfuric acid untill a PH of 3 is
obtained and is placed in the fridge overnight to crystalize. the crystals are filtered
out and dried
in a vaccume desicator or centerfuge. this will yeild 4g to 8g D-lysergic acid
monohytrate.
8.) there is still Iso-lysergic acid and amides in the solutions you saved. remove the
solvent in all three by vaccume using only heat from a hot water bath under 80*C.
desolve the
residues in a mixture of EtOH/MeOH 3:1 and combine. basify with a saturated
NaHCO3 solution and extract with ether or chloroform, remove the solvent by
vacuum and process
the residue through steps 5-7 for additional yeild.
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9.) desolve the crystals in abs. EtOH and THF 2:3 and process through a
chromatography column following the blue band with a weak long wave UV light.
collect that fraction and
remove the solvent by vaccume to get pure D-Lysergic acid monohydrate.
the D-LA should be cold stored -0*C in the absence of light and oxygen.
Diethylamine
make a solution of 60g KOH/NaOH (NaOH works better) in EtOH (50ml) its okay if it
dosent all dissolve. add 175ml DEET (98.11%) to this solution in an autoclavable
media bottle (can withstand high pressures) and place in a crockpot (sealed) set on
high. let it get to 80C and stay there for 1.5-2hr. over this time the solution will
progress from a clear soln to a dark piss yellow soln. after the 1.5-2hr remove and
cool the bottle before you open it or you'll spray diethylamine vapor everywhere.
fractionaly distill the solution with the addition of 20g lye to the distillation flask. the
diethylamine will come over at 55.5C (or 130F) the ethyl alcohol will come over at
78.4 C (or 173 F) the M-toluic acid dosent boil till about 230C so you wont be
distilling any of that or the lye over. since undoubtedly some of the EtOH and a little
water came over you will have to distill again but distill over NaOH (25g per 25ml of
distillate) and play close attention to the tempetures as the fractions start coming
over. the temp will continue to rise untill it hits the boiling point of the diethylamine
and stop there. when it starts to climb again all of the diethylamine is across and the
EtOH will start coming over nect would be the water if it didnt get trapped by the lye.
you can expect to get about 30g (or 90 ish ml) form 175ml of DEET, that is enough
for a few small batches as you only need about 7g per 3g of lysergic acid...

director of sound your technique is superb.
the only weakpoint is the fact that hydrolysis of lysergamides yeilds 35% theoretical
lysergic acid and the pocl3 process 77%
not too great.
hydrazine is dangerous to handle but yeilds 70+% of a stable intermediate.
a third option would be to chromatigraphically isolate ergine from the clavines along
with the carbinolamides ergonovine and subject them to a milder hydrolysis in
alcohol using a weaker base which would yeild higher (ergine) then alcoholysis in
methanolic hcl would yeild the d-epimer in quantitaive yeilds this could be then
reacted with diethylamine in a bomb to yeild 60% or reacted with trimethyl
amuminum to form an activated diethylamide complex which would yeild
quantitatively.
other options include esterification with pentachlorophenol and reaction with
diethylamine at stp to give quatitavie yeilds.
a bit more tedious but the yeilds are higher by a factor of 2.
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i also dreamed up and idea for a large scale vacuum soxlet type extractor to use
when extracting large ammounts of plant material. it would cut down the needed
50gal or so of solvent to about 10L mabey less and the whole thing under an
aspirator with a hot water bath for heat would avoid the high temps that would
destroy most lysergamides. ill have to post up the schematics when im done with
them.

you could also isolate the lysergamides into tartaric acid and water then absorb them
onto montmorrilonite clay.

Is there any reason why people do not recycle there solvents with the use of a
rotovap (there not terribly difficult to make)?

rotovaps (2-3000 at least) are expensive but for molecules as touchy as this pretty
much mandatory.

Rotovaps are essentially a warm water bath. A airtight swivel(used for glass blowing,
easily made). A motor to rotate. A vacuum source. and a cold finger.
A functional one can be made for much less then 2-3000.
With a rotovap one could keep re-using ones solvents, cutting down on suspicious
aquisitions.

right i'd love to see a blueprint.
save us all a bundle.
lysergamides really don't like to be in solution as freebases for very long very prone
to oxidation.
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Post by: Vesp on October 21, 2010, 03:07:20 AM
I believe I have seen smaller - questionable ones for around 150 to 200 dollars. I do
not know if they would be of any interest, but I guess this is a topic for another place
and another time.

well a rigged up alternative is to run a n2 capillary through a magnetically stirred
solvent to be evaporated it's called "sparging"
works pretty well to carry off solvents.

does the capillary gas really make it evaporate that much faster? Could you just rig
a room temp distillation setup with a few ambient-air capillarys, stirring and have the
condensor running room temp water, have this thing sitting in the corner distilling
your solvents slowly but surly?

umm you want an inert gas co2 at the very least yes it speeds up evaporation
considerably.
a tapered tube allows for smaller bubbles and greater surface area of gas and faster
evaporation.

Post by: Trips on October 21, 2010, 06:12:21 PM
Why is Director Of Sound's post cut off? Where is the rest? Also, Buchi rotovaps can
be obtained complete and fully functional with Glassware off ebay used for ~500
bucks if you're patient.

all i posted was a novel rout to lysergic acid and diethylamine, you could use one of
many methods after that to make your fluff. SO3, trichloroacetic anhydride, lithium
lysergate, PyBOP, POCl3, grignard its your choice baised on what you have available
and what kind of lab experience you have.
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im still working on the vacuum soxlet schematics now. but there would only be one
custom piece that would have to be made. that would consist of a large hopper/tank
made from stainless steel tubing (30x80cm about a 57L capacity) fitted with a
suitable head that has a valve and fritted discs for filters. it would essentialy be a
manual soxlet so it would have to be constantly watched while running but it would
allow you to process close to 100lbs of ergot/seeds at a time using only 5L or so of a
chloroform/methanol/ammonia mix. with vacuum from an aspirator applied you
would only need the heat from a hot water bath to drive the distillation.
as for the labware you would need: at least a 20L 2 or 3 neck flask, 400mm
graham/friedrich condenser, 400mm allihn condencer, vacuum adapter, tubing and
water aspirator vacuum probally totaling close to $300 and the hopper/tank i could
see coming close to $200 so mabey $500-600 over all which is chump change if you
are gonna process that much material and make LSD from it. just add a heating
mantle, 500ml flask and some rubber septums and you would also have every thing
needed to preform the synth its self.

Director of Sound:
For that yield, were the HBWR seeds of good quality, or just average fare? Hawaiian
strain, Indian Strain?
This is some awesome work if it does in fact work!

Has this been tried on a smaller, personal scale, or is it difficult to not lose such a
small quantity of material to the apparatuses and column material?

acuall fresh hawaiian seeds, i have a friend on maui that can aquire them for me
every now and then. when working with something like lysergamides from seeds
(other than ergot) a larger scale is much more feasable when you think of it. first if
you were to extract say 50g of seeds you would only get about 200mg of mixed
lysergamides that on hydrolysis to lysergic acid would only give about 60mg mabey a
little more if you were to make the hydrazide (150mg +/- 25). so you wouldnt be
able to do very much with 150mg or less so if you can get your hands on half a kg or
better you might be able to make something from it. the avrage hawaiian baby wood
rose seed weighs 125mg so there are 8 seeds per a gram, go to a site like that
shamanjungle bullshit place where they sell by seed count, 500 seeds would be a
little over 60g for about $16 (not hawaiian seeds though) its gonna cost you $125+
to get 500g of seeds that might give you 1.5-2g of lysergamides to play with. my
suggestion is that if you are gonna go as far as to mabey attempt this, it dosent cost
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that much to go to hawaii in September. make some friends, find a big old hbwr vine
and ship seeds back in coffee bags. just make sure they are the foil lined ones and
vacuum seal them before you ship. a few weeks squating on the pipeline for free will
let you scroung up several KG pretty much for free (well you plane ticket S&H at
least). so now when you fly home you will have 10, 20 whatever kg you gathered in
your time there waiting for you. now you have something to work with, if you were to
go the hydrazide and POCl3 route 10kg might get you 10-15g....... now would that
be worth a $500 plane ticket?

Post by: akcom on October 28, 2010, 12:27:30 AM
What else is lysergic acid sensitive to besides light and bases? I seem to remember
reading something about sensitivity to water. Any references would be much
appreciated. why not hydrolyze bromocryptine, form & decompose the gringard and
viola. Lysergic acid. Seems a lot less messy.

Post by: Trips on October 28, 2010, 12:32:47 AM
I certainly have no interest in actually carrying out this procedure! And even if I
were, it would certainly not be to sell! I couldn't survive prison. Though just for a
thought experiment I'd like to potentially get like 100 mg. If you started with 100
grams of seeds, you don't think you could theoretically wind up with a 100mg LSD,
all said and done? Even 50 mg of nice pure fluff is 500 hits! Even that seems so
very excessive for personal use.

Post by: Trips on October 28, 2010, 12:34:42 AM
Sending prescription drugs across the border is sketchy, for one. For two, its
expensive. And for three, there's something satisfying about working directly with a
life form, synergistically, to create something better than either of you alone can do
:P (Well, total synthesis is NOW possible, but...meh)

Well I just aquired 2 lb's of Mg shavings, so I'm curious about the Grignard with
Bromocryptine. Are there any confirmed procedures for this or is it merely a popular
pipe dream?
Getting prescription drugs over the border is not very difficult, especially if its
packaged as America's favorite anti-impotence drug, perhaps slide a natural male
enhancement pamphlet in with the goods make the custom agents nice and
uncomfortable so they'll stamp her right through ;)
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Post by: akcom on October 28, 2010, 12:54:21 PM
Trips, like solid said getting drugs over the border is extremely easy (and cheap).
Especially compared to a trip to Hawaii (not knocking DOS's method).
Solidstone, no literature, but it's an exceedingly easy reaction to perform.
Dimethoxymethane could probably be used instead of ethers. I would probably use
Et2O just to be safe

Post by: Trips on November 01, 2010, 04:39:08 PM
Nobody has anything to comment on the feasibility of a synth. starting with 50-100
grams of HBWR?

Post by: jon on November 01, 2010, 06:13:25 PM
grignard rxn on bromocrytine nice dream.
just buy the ergotamine

Post by: director of sound on November 01, 2010, 06:58:22 PM
50-100g wouldnt make alot and you'd have to do it on a micro scale with 25-50ml
glassware because after you convert the LSA to lysergic acid you wouldnt have too
much to work with. youd get maby 350-400mg LSA from 100g HBWR and depending
on how you convert that it could end up being 100-250mg lysergic acid.... it could be
done though. just get all your ducks in a row first before attempting anything
otherwise you'll loose product by the hour once its extracted.

Post by: director of sound on November 01, 2010, 07:00:31 PM
as for bromocriptine, if you think you can pull off a grignard, go right ahead as i
found 2.5mg pills in a 30ct for $24 online. ill have to find the link again though but it
looked like it was OTC and nothing said an rx was needed to buy it.

Post by: tregar on November 01, 2010, 07:22:36 PM
Really have enjoyed reading this beautiful thread over and over, excellent info
director of sound, keep up the good dream work.
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bromocryptine and grignard schemes pipe dreams why?
the amide link bears a proton and a whole lot of other shit i haven't accounted for
that i don't know about that complex side chain.
now you can possibly reduce it with acetic acid and zinc.

Post by: solidstone on November 01, 2010, 08:54:44 PM
Pipe dream simply because there is no experimental data available on the topic. I
will however have the magnessium chips in the next few days, and am contemplating
ordering some bromocriptine for a microscale experiment.
If anyone wanted to run this experiment parallel to my attempts I would be more
then willing to share my magnessium for the cause.

pipe dream because of the basic principles of organic chemistry.

Post by: solidstone on November 01, 2010, 09:46:11 PM
You think its not a feasible reaction route? Do explain and save me a headache.

Post by: akcom on November 01, 2010, 11:15:03 PM
What I believe jon is saying is that a grignard reagent will preferentially cleave a
proton from the amide. I don't know shit about intermolecular grignards, or amide
chemistry for that matter, so I have no idea what the resulting product would look
like. The dimer is probably more likely than the intermolecular grignard. Props to
jon for knowing his shit (as always lol)

well if you went all the way to 2-bromodelysid it would work but with that complex
side chain and the fact that the amide is secondary it will not work.
there is another method proposed on SM that just might work by just heating in zinc
and acetic acid at around 80 or so it works for debrominating thiophenes at the
carbon alpha to the heterocylcic residue the sulfur in that case but in this case it is
very similar you have a brominated carbon alpha to the nitrogen heterocylclic residue
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it should work the same exept sulfur chemistry is a bit quarky but i see no reason it
won't work.
except ergolines have that touchy conjugated double bond that lewis acids like zinc
acetate might influence and cause unwanted side reactions.
like dimerization for example because ergoline chemistry is a royal pain in the arse.
but if you got bromocryptine on hand give it a whirl.
it will only cost you a few quid to find out.
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>to the Anarchists Cookbook, althought many on this news group

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separated in the form of an oil by evaporating the solvent in vacuo at a temperature

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Oberlender, Pfaff, Johnson, Huang, Nichols. "Stereoselective LSD-like Activity in

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hydrazine - rocket fuel, watched, poisonous, explosive.

All of the above are not simple to obtain.

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I agree :) Or, If absoloutely necissary, then cost-price. Which shouldn't be very

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