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Case 1:15-cr-00765-PAC Document 54-13 Filed 07/22/16 Page 1 of 24
Exhibit M
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
------------------------------x
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
4
5
6
v.
EFRAIN ANTONIO CAMPO FLORES
AND FRANQUI FRANCISCO FLORES
DE FREITAS,
7
8
15 Cr. 765 (PAC)
Defendants.
------------------------------x
New York, N.Y.

May 12, 2016
10:50 a.m.
10
11
Before:
12
HON. PAUL A. CROTTY,

13
District Judge
14
15
APPEARANCES
16
PREET BHARARA
United States Attorney for the
Southern District of New York
BRENDAN F. QUIGLEY
Assistant United States Attorney
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18
19
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BOIES, SCHILLER & FLEXNER

Attorneys for Defendant Efrain Antonio Campo Flores
JOHN T. ZACH
RANDALL W. JACKSON
21
22
23
SIDLEY AUSTIN
Attorneys for Defendant Franqui Francisco Flores De
Freitas
MICHAEL D. MANN
DAVID M. RODY
24
25
Also Present:
Humberto Garcia, Spanish Interpreter

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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THE DEPUTY CLERK:
United States of America versus
Efrain Antonio Campo Flores and Franqui Francisco Flores De
Freitas.
Docket S2:15 Cr. 765.
MR. QUIGLEY:
Good morning, your Honor.
Quigley for the United States.
THE COURT:
THE DEPUTY CLERK:
MR. ZACH:
THE COURT:
11
MR. MANN:
13
14
Hello, Mr. Quigley.

For the defendants?
John Zach and
Randall Jackson for the Defendant Mr. Campo Flores.
10
12
Brendan
Mr. Zach.
Mr. Johnson.
Dave Rody and
Mike Mann for Mr. Flores Freitas.

THE COURT:
Mr. Zach and Mr. Rody, have you explained
to your clients the purpose of today's meeting?
15
MR. ZACH:
We have, your Honor.
16
MR. MANN:
We have.
17
THE COURT:
We're here today to review the concerns
18
arising out of the fact that, while each defendant is
19
separately represented, the law firms are being paid by one
20
individual.
21
each criminal defendant the right to assistance of counsel for
22
his defense.
23
justice and our adversarial system, and ensures that every
24
criminal defendant, no matter his or her resources or
25
understanding of the justice system, is afforded the zealous
The Sixth Amendment to the Constitution guarantees
That right is vital to the fair administration of

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defense and a fair trial.
the other rights and privileges guaranteed by our Constitution
and the Bill of Rights.
It is instrumental in safeguarding
The right to effective assistance of counsel includes
the right to be represented by counsel who is free of any
conflicts of interest that might adversely affect his or her
ability to provide effective assistance.
client a duty of undivided loyalty.
compromise that duty.
10
Attorneys owe their
Certain conflicts can
For example, when one attorney represents two
11
codefendants, the attorney's duties to each defendant may
12
conflict.
13
would benefit one defendant to the detriment of another.
14
is another source of potential conflict.
15
paid by someone other than the attorney's client, the question
16
arises whether the attorney's loyalties are with the client or
17
with the benefactor.
18
The attorney may pursue a litigation strategy that

Money
If an attorney is
We're here today to address a potential conflict
19
similar the two examples I have given.
While each defendant is
20
represented by separate counsel, both counsel are being paid by
21
the same benefactor.
22
The benefactor may use his power of the purse to influence
23
defense strategy to the disadvantage of one or both defendants,
24
or the benefactor may persuade counsel not to advise the
25
defendants not to cooperate or not to testify in their own
This presents the potential for conflict.

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defense, or the benefactor may attempt to influence their
testimony so as to avoid compromising the benefactor's
interest.
Conflicts arise in strange circumstances and are difficult to
predict.
This is not all the conflicts, this is just some.
Along with the right of conflict-free representation,
the Sixth Amendment also guarantees defendants the right to
counsel of choice.
rights, the Court will permit representation by defendants
To ensure the vindication of both those
10
chosen counsel, even where there exists a potential conflict or
11
actual conflict so long as the defendant is fully informed of
12
the conflict and knowingly and voluntarily waives the right to
13
conflict-free representation.
14
The purpose of today's hearing is to ask each of the
15
defendants a series of questions to ensure that they understand
16
their rights, and they understand the risks entailed by their
17
counsels' potentially conflicts of interest.
18
you want to continue to be represented by your current counsel
19
and whether you waive your right to conflict-free
20
representation.
21
I will ask you if
With that as a background, let me start first with
22
Mr. Campo Flores, who is represented by Mr. Jackson and
23
Mr. Zach, the lawyers from Boies Schiller & Flexner.
24
Mr. Campo Flores, how old are you?
25
DEFENDANT CAMPO FLORES:
29.

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THE COURT:
THE COURT:
How far did you get in school?
THE COURT:
Through college.
I am an
Do you currently consult a doctor or
mental health professional for any conditions?
THE COURT:
10
Yes.
attorney.
6
7
Did you go to school?
No.
Are you currently under the influence of
alcohol or drugs?
11
12
THE COURT:
13
14
THE COURT:
15
16
THE COURT:
No.
Is your mind clear today?

Yes.
Do you understand what is happening?

Yes.
Am I correct that you're represented by
17
Mr. Jackson and Mr. Zach from the law firm of Boies, Schiller &
18
Flexner?
19
20
THE COURT:
21
How long have they represented you,
Mr. Campo Flores?
22
23
THE COURT:
24
25
Yes.
A little bit over one month.
Are you satisfied with their
representation?
Yes.

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THE COURT:
Do you wish to continue to be represented
by Mr. Jackson and Mr. Zach?
THE COURT:
Yes.
Am I correct that there's someone other
than yourself who is paying for your legal representation?
THE COURT:
THE COURT:
Yes.
Do you know the identity of that person?

Yes.
Do you understand that the same person who
10
is paying your legal fees is also paying for your codefendant's
11
legal fees?
12
13
THE COURT:
14
Mr. Zach, have you disclosed to your
client the identity of the person paying his attorneys' fees?
15
16
THE COURT:
17
I have, your Honor.
Have you done the same with the
government?
18
19
THE COURT:
20
Yes.
same questions.
I have, your Honor.
Mr. Flores De Freitas, let me ask you the
How old are you?
21
DEFENDANT FLORES DE FREITAS:
22
THE COURT:
23
24
25
30 years old.
How far did you get in school?

Up to fourth year of
high school.
THE COURT:
Are you currently under the care of a

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doctor or a mental health professional for any condition?
THE COURT:
No.
Are you currently under the influence of
alcohol or drugs?
THE COURT:
THE COURT:
10
THE COURT:
No.
Is your mind clear today?

Yes.
Do you understand what's happening?

Yes.
Am I correct that you're currently
11
represented by Mr. Michael Mann and David Rody of Sidley
12
Austin?
13
14
THE COURT:
15
THE COURT:
Are you satisfied with the representation
that Mr. Rody and Mr. Mann have provided you to date?
20
21
THE COURT:
22
Yes.
Do you want them to continue to represent
you?
23
24
THE COURT:
25
Approximately two
months.
18
19
How long has Mr. Rody and Mr. Mann
represented you?
16
17
Yes.
Yes.
Are you paying your own bills for legal
services, Mr. Flores De Freitas?

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THE COURT:
No.
Do you know the identity of the person who
is?
THE COURT:
Yes.
Do you understand that the same person who
is paying for your legal fees is also paying for your
codefendant's legal fees?
THE COURT:
10
Mr. Rody, have you disclosed to your
client the identity of the person paying his attorneys' fees?
11
MR. RODY:
12
THE COURT:
13
Yes.
We have, your Honor?

Have you made the same disclosure to the
government?
14
MR. RODY:
15
THE COURT:
We have, Judge.
Mr. Campo Flores and Mr. Flores De
16
Freitas, do you understand that in every criminal case,
17
including this one, each defendant is entitled to be
18
represented by an attorney whose loyalty to him is undivided
19
and who is not subject to any force or consideration that might
20
in any way intrude upon the attorney's loyalty to his client's
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interests?
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Is that your understanding, Mr. Campo Flores?
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THE COURT:
25
Yes.
And Mr. Flores De Freitas, is that your
understanding, as well?
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THE COURT:
Yes.
Mr. Campo Flores, let me ask you.
Is your
choice to be represented by Mr. Jackson and Mr. Zach a choice
you make freely and voluntarily without any promises, threats,
or inducements being made or offered to you?
THE COURT:
Yes, it was my decision.
And Mr. Flores De Freitas, let me ask you
the same question.
Was your choice to be represented by
Mr. Rody and Mr. Mann at the law firm of Sidley Austin the
10
choice you made freely and voluntarily without any promises,
11
threats, or inducements being made or offered to you?
12
13
THE COURT:
Yes, totally.
Now, do each of you understand that
14
whenever someone other than the defendant is paying the lawyer
15
who is representing that defendant, it is possible that whoever
16
is paying may have interests different than the defendants'
17
interests, and the lawyers' judgments may be influenced by
18
wishes of whoever is paying the bill, what the lawyer thinks
19
are the wishes of whoever is paying the bill, rather than the
20
wishes of you as the defendant.
21
Do you understand that, Mr. Campo Flores?
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THE COURT:
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25
Yes, I understand.
Mr. Flores De Freitas, do you have a
similar understanding?
Yes, I understand.

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THE COURT:
So it is possible in this case that
Mr. Jackson and Mr. Zach of the law firm of Boies, Schiller &
Flexner may be influenced in the advice they give you and the
way they defend you by what they are told are the wishes of or
what they think that the wishes are of the person who is paying
your legal fees.
you understand that?
Those wishes may be different from yours.
THE COURT:
10
same understanding?
Do
Yes, I understand.
And Mr. Flores De Freitas, do you have the
11
12
THE COURT:
Yes, I understand.
Do each of you understand that the
13
situation, that is, having your lawyer paid by someone other
14
than you who is also paying for your codefendant's lawyer,
15
creates a risk to you that your lawyer may not be acting solely
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in your interest?
Do you understand that, Mr. Campo Flores?
17
18
THE COURT:
19
Yes, I understand.
Mr. Flores De Freitas, do you have a
similar understanding?
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THE COURT:
Yes, I understand.
Each of you has to understand that you're
22
entitled to a legal defense separate from and independent of
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the defense of your codefendant.
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funding both your legal defenses, however, it is possible that
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Mr. Jackson and Mr. Zach may be influenced to pursue a legal
Because the same person is

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strategy that adversely affects you but benefits your
codefendant based on the wishes or perceived wishes of the
individual who is paying your legal fees.
that, Mr. Campo Flores?
THE COURT:
Do you understand
Yes.
And Mr. Flores De Freitas, let me ask you.
I hope you understand, you are entitled to a legal defense
separate from and independent of your codefendant, Mr. Campo
Flores.
But because the same person is funding both of your
10
legal defenses, it is possible that Mr. Rody and Mr. Mann of
11
Sidley Austin may be influenced to pursue a legal strategy that
12
adversely affects you but benefits your codefendant based on
13
the wishes or perceived wishes of your benefactor.
14
understand that, Mr. Flores De Freitas?
15
16
THE COURT:
Do you
Yes, I understand.
Mr. Campo Flores, do you understand that
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you have the right to object to the continued representation of
18
Mr. Jackson and Mr. Zach of the Boies Schiller law firm based
19
on the existence of the potential conflict of interest?
20
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THE COURT:
Yes, I understand.
And Mr. Flores De Freitas, do you
22
understand that you have the right to object to the continued
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representation of Mr. Rody and Mr. Mann of Sidley Austin based
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upon the existence of a conflict of interest or potential
25
conflict of interest?
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THE COURT:
Yes, I understand.
Now, it's important for both of you to
understand that no one, including the Court, can predict with
any certainty the course that this case will take, and that no
one, including the Court, can foresee all the ways in which you
may be disadvantaged by proceeding with your current counsel.
Do both of you understand that?
10
THE COURT:
Yes.
Yes.
Do you understand that it is the view of
11
the Court, based on my experience, that proceeding with an
12
attorney who has potential conflicts of interest of this kind
13
can create real dangers to you or the advocacy of your defense?
14
Yes.
15
16
THE COURT:
Yes.
Mr. Campo Flores, do you agree, if the
17
Court permits you to proceed with Mr. Zach and Mr. Jackson, the
18
law firm of Boies Schiller, in the event that you are
19
convicted, you will not be allowed to make any argument on
20
appeal or otherwise based on the representation that Mr. Zach
21
and Mr. Jackson have provided you and the conflict or potential
22
conflict we have discussed?
Do you understand that?
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THE COURT:
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Yes, I understand.
Do you agree to waive and give up any
argument of that kind?

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THE COURT:
Yes.
same question.
Mr. Mann at Sidley Austin, that in the event you are convicted,
you will not be allowed to make any argument on appeal or
otherwise based on the representation of Mr. Rody and Mr. Mann
and the Sidley Austin firm in the conflict or potential
conflict we have discussed?
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10
11
If I permit you to proceed with Mr. Rody and

THE COURT:
Yes, I accept.
Do you agree to waive and give up any
argument of that kind?
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13
THE COURT:
Yes.
To make sure you've understood what we've
14
been discussing, please describe in your own words your
15
understanding of the conflict or conflicts of interest which
16
might arise in your case.
17
Mr. Campo Flores, please go first.
18
Well, I think that the
19
possible conflict of interest could arise from the fact that my
20
attorneys are being paid by a third party, and they might not
21
have loyalty towards me.
22
THE COURT:
And knowing that, you want to waive any
23
possible conflicts of interest that might arise out of that
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potential conflict?
25
Yes.

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THE COURT:
same question.
words your understanding of the conflicts or the potential
conflicts of interest that might arise in this case.
Do you understand, and tell me in your own
My understanding is that
my attorney could take instructions from the person who is
paying for the fees and not from me.
THE COURT:
And not from?
And not from me.
10
THE COURT:
All right.
11
Mr. Campo Flores, have you spoken with another lawyer
12
other than Mr. Jackson and Mr. Zach and lawyers from Boies
13
Schiller about the risks of your being defended by your current
14
counsel in this case?
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16
THE COURT:
No.
Mr. Flores De Freitas, let me ask you,
17
have you spoken with other lawyers about this?
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THE COURT:
No.
Do each of you understand that you have
20
the right to consult with a lawyer other than your current
21
counsel?
Mr. Campo Flores?
22
23
THE COURT:
Yes, I understand.
24
understand that you have the right to consult with a lawyer
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other than your current counsel?

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THE COURT:
Yes, I understand.
Do you understand that if you cannot
afford other counsel, I will appoint counsel to consult with
you about the conflict of interest issue and/or to represent
you?
Yes.
THE COURT:
THE COURT:
Did Mr. Flores De Freitas answer?

Yes.
Do you understand that if you cannot
10
afford other counsel, the Court will appoint counsel to consult
11
with you about this conflict of interest issue and/or to
12
represent you?
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14
THE COURT:
Yes, I understand.
I want you to understand that I'm
15
encouraging you to consult with another lawyer about this
16
conflict of interest.
17
18
19
THE COURT:
20
Yes, I understand.
Is there anything that you wish me to
explain to you further, either defendant?
21
22
23
24
25
Yes, I understand.
No, I'm fine.
No, I understand everything
completely.
THE COURT:
I'll give you the opportunity to think
about what you've been told, whether or not you'd like to speak
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with separate counsel about it.
After you've thought it over,
I'll ask you whether you've considered the matters that the
Court has talked to you about, and the Court will ask you then
whether you want to continue with your current counsel -- for
Mr. Campo Flores, that's Mr. Jackson and Mr. Zach with the law
firm of Boies Schiller, and for Mr. Flores De Freitas,
Mr. David Rody and Michael Mann of the Sidley Austin firm.
Do you want to speak with separate counsel, gentlemen?
10
11
12
No.
No.
Thank you very
much.
THE COURT:
Do you need Court-appointed counsel for
13
the purpose of consulting with you about these conflict of
14
interest issues?
15
No.
16
17
THE COURT:
No.
We don't have to do this while you're
18
sitting here.
If you want to take time to consult with other
19
counsel or think about it, I'll be happy to adjourn this
20
proceeding and we'll resume at a time convenient for all sides.
21
Do you want an opportunity to deliberate in private?
22
23
24
25
about this and we made a decision.

THE COURT:
No.
We already thought
Thank you.
After considering all that the Court has
said about the ways in which having one individual pay your
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legal fees while also paying the legal fees of your
codefendants and how that can adversely affect your defense,
Mr. Campo Flores, do you believe it is in your best interest to
continue with Mr. Jackson and Mr. Zach of the Boies Schiller
law firm?
6
7
Yes, that's most convenient
for me.
THE COURT:
All right.
Mr. Flores De Freitas, after considering all that the
10
Court has said about the ways in which having one individual
11
pay your legal fees while also paying legal fees for your
12
codefendant may adversely affect your defense, do you believe
13
that it is in your best interest to continue with Mr. Rody and
14
Mr. Mann of the Sidley Austin law firm as your attorneys?
15
16
17
Yes.
That's what's most
convenient for me.

THE COURT:
All right.
Do you understand that by
18
choosing to continue with the current counsel as your
19
attorneys, you are waiving your right to be represented solely
20
by an attorney who has no conflict of interest or no potential
21
Mr. Campo Flores?
22
Yes, I understand.
23
THE COURT:
24
25
THE COURT:
And Mr. Flores De Freitas?

Yes, I understand.
Do you understand that by choosing to

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continue with the Boies Schiller firm as your attorneys,
Mr. Campo Flores, you are waiving your right to be represented
solely by an attorney who has no conflict of interest?
THE COURT:
Yes.
understand that by choosing to continue with Mr. Rody and
Mr. Mann of the Sidley Austin law firm as your attorneys, you
are waiving your right to be represented solely by an attorney
who has no conflict of interest?
10
11
THE COURT:
12
15
Are each of you knowingly and voluntarily
waiving your right to conflict-free representation?
13
14
Yes, I understand.
Would you repeat that,
please?
THE COURT:
Do you understand that by choosing to
16
continue with your law firms as your attorneys, you are waiving
17
your right to be represented solely by an attorney who has no
18
19
20
21
THE COURT:
22
Of course.
I understand.
Yes.
And this is done knowingly and voluntarily
by each of you?
23
Yes, of course.
24
25
THE COURT:
Yes.
Mr. Campo Flores, do you agree that you

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waive any post conviction argument on appeal or otherwise that,
by virtue of having a third party pay your legal fees while
also paying legal fees for your codefendant, you were denied
the effective assistance of counsel?
THE COURT:
Yes, I understand.
And Mr. Flores De Freitas, do you agree to
waive any post conviction argument on appeal or otherwise that,
by virtue of having a third party pay your legal fees while
also paying legal fees for your codefendant, you were denied
10
effective assistance of counsel?
11
12
THE COURT:
Yes, I accept.
Is there anything that I've said in this
13
colloquy that I've had with you that you want me to explain
14
further to you?
15
No.
16
17
THE COURT:
Thank you very much.

No.
Thank you.
Does the government, or Mr. Jackson,
18
Mr. Zach, Mr. Rody, or Mr. Mann have any further requests or
19
suggestions?
20
MR. QUIGLEY:
21
MR. ZACH:
No, your Honor.
22
MR. MANN:
No, Judge.
23
MR. RODY:
No.
24
THE COURT:
25
No, your Honor.
Thanks.
Now that that is behind us, Mr. Quigley,
would you bring me up to date on your production of discovery

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2
materials?
MR. QUIGLEY:
Yes, your Honor.
There's no existing
discovery to be produced at this time.
We are awaiting the
returns on some search warrants, electronic search warrants,
which we are about to get back in the next couple of weeks.
We have produced the underlying warrants and
applications to the defense to facilitate motion practice, and
I think we'd like to set a motion schedule based on my
consultation with defense counsel prior to today's proceeding.
10
THE COURT:
You say you want to set a motion schedule?
11
MR. QUIGLEY:
12
THE COURT:
13
MR. QUIGLEY:
Yes, your Honor.

Do you have a proposed schedule?
I think we talked about the defense
14
filing motions by July 1st, three weeks for government
15
response, and then two weeks for a reply.
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
THE COURT:
Mr. Zach, Mr. Jackson, Mr. Rody, Mr. Mann,
is that satisfactory?
MR. RODY:
It is, Judge.
It, of course, in part
depends on -THE COURT:

appropriate time.
MR. RODY:
Your getting the material at the

Yes, I understand.
But that schedule is acceptable to us,
assuming we get the material in the near future.
24
THE COURT:
Do you have a schedule?
25
THE DEPUTY CLERK:
Motions by July 1st, responses by

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July 22nd, and reply by August the 5th.
2
3
THE COURT:
MR. QUIGLEY:
Your Honor, I think we talked about a
date in early November at a time convenient to the Court.
THE COURT:
What do we have in November?
We have a
trial against MUDD, but this case would take priority.
date do you want in November?
9
10
MR. JACKSON:
MR. RODY:
12
MR. QUIGLEY:
14
15
16
So what
November 7th, Mr. Jackson?
Yes, your Honor, that would be
excellent.
11
13
request for trial date?
4
5
Do you have a scheduled date for trial?
Fine for us, too, Judge.

That's fine with the government, your
Honor.
THE COURT:
You want to exclude time through
November 7th?
MR. QUIGLEY:
Yes, your Honor.
The government moves
17
to exclude time between now and November 7th to allow the
18
defense time to contemplate filing motions and to allow the
19
parties time to prepare for trial.
20
MR. ZACH:
No objection, your Honor.
21
MR. RODY:
No objection, Judge.
22
THE COURT:
For the reasons stated, the time between
23
now and November 7th will be excluded.
It's in the interest of
24
justice to do so.
25
public and the defendant to a speedy trial.
Those interests outweigh the interest of the

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Anything else to take up, Mr. Quigley?
MR. QUIGLEY:
Thank you.
THE COURT:
MR. ZACH:
Mr. Zach?
Not from of the defendants.
Thank you,
your Honor.
THE COURT:
MR. RODY:
THE COURT:
10
Not from the government, your Honor.
Mr. Rody?
Not for us, Judge.
Thank you.
(Adjourned)
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Case 1:15-cr-00765-PAC Document 54-13 Filed 07/22/16 Page 1 of 24

Case 1:15-cr-00765-PAC Document 54-13 Filed 07/22/16 Page 2 of 24

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

15 Cr. 765 (PAC)

New York, N.Y.

HON. PAUL A. CROTTY,

BOIES, SCHILLER & FLEXNER

Humberto Garcia, Spanish Interpreter

Case 1:15-cr-00765-PAC Document 54-13 Filed 07/22/16 Page 3 of 24

THE DEPUTY CLERK:

United States of America versus

Efrain Antonio Campo Flores and Franqui Francisco Flores De

Docket S2:15 Cr. 765.

Good morning, your Honor.

Quigley for the United States.

THE DEPUTY CLERK:

Hello, Mr. Quigley.

Good morning, your Honor.

John Zach and

Randall Jackson for the Defendant Mr. Campo Flores.

Good morning, your Honor.

Dave Rody and

Mike Mann for Mr. Flores Freitas.

Mr. Zach and Mr. Rody, have you explained

to your clients the purpose of today's meeting?

We have, your Honor.

We're here today to review the concerns

arising out of the fact that, while each defendant is

separately represented, the law firms are being paid by one

each criminal defendant the right to assistance of counsel for

justice and our adversarial system, and ensures that every

criminal defendant, no matter his or her resources or

understanding of the justice system, is afforded the zealous

The Sixth Amendment to the Constitution guarantees

That right is vital to the fair administration of

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.

Case 1:15-cr-00765-PAC Document 54-13 Filed 07/22/16 Page 4 of 24

defense and a fair trial.

the other rights and privileges guaranteed by our Constitution

and the Bill of Rights.

The right to effective assistance of counsel includes

the right to be represented by counsel who is free of any

conflicts of interest that might adversely affect his or her

ability to provide effective assistance.

client a duty of undivided loyalty.

compromise that duty.

Attorneys owe their

Certain conflicts can

For example, when one attorney represents two

codefendants, the attorney's duties to each defendant may

would benefit one defendant to the detriment of another.

is another source of potential conflict.

paid by someone other than the attorney's client, the question

arises whether the attorney's loyalties are with the client or

with the benefactor.

The attorney may pursue a litigation strategy that

We're here today to address a potential conflict

similar the two examples I have given.

While each defendant is

represented by separate counsel, both counsel are being paid by

the same benefactor.

The benefactor may use his power of the purse to influence