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Can we use mean+/-standard error instead of mean+/-standard

deviation when data is non-parametric?
I measured cytokines through ELISA in humans, but my values were very skewed
since I got huge standard deviation which was nearly 2 fold larger than my mean
value.
Shall I use mean+/-standard error instead of mean+/-standard deviation when data
is non-parametric?
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Aug 15, 2013

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Jason Leung The Chinese University of Hong Kong
If data is skewed, using mean +/- standard deviation or mean +/- standard
error is not good, becasue mean is distorted. You may present median
and interquartile range(IQR) or median and range (min, max)
Aug 15, 2013

Peter Donald Grifths University of Southampton

Measuring cytokines through ELISA is very much not my topic but may I
make a note based on my understanding of basic stats. Sandro say SD
and SE are the same measure.
That's not quite true. He correctly identies the relationship between the
two. However the SD is a measure of variation in the data (or an estimate
of the variation in the population based on the data at hand). The
Standard Error is a measure of sampling variation - that is the extent to
which sample means vary around the population mean. If you are trying to
describe your data it is unlikely that this is what you want to use.
As for the data being 'non-parametric' this is not really the best way of
looking at it. The data is what the data is - with a variety of 'parameters'.
Non parametric TESTS make fewer assumptions about the underlying
parameters - specically they don't assume normal distributions.
Whatever the distribution of the data, you can calculate mean and SD as
the descriptive statistics - there is nothing 'wrong' about it - provided of
course that the data is not ordinal / nominal rendering the numbers
themselves essentially meaningless .
The question is rather whether or not these are helpful summary
descriptions of central tendency and variation. If the data is highly skewed
the mean probably isn't helpful. The situation in which the SD is unhelpful
is harder to dene but if the data is not normally distributed assumptions
we make based on a normal distribution model about relative frequency
(and symmetry) of observations a certain number of SDs from the mean
will be incorrect.
Aug 16, 2013

All Answers (17)

Jason Leung The Chinese University of Hong Kong
If data is skewed, using mean +/- standard deviation or mean +/- standard
error is not good, becasue mean is distorted. You may present median
and interquartile range(IQR) or median and range (min, max)

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Aug 15, 2013

Sandro Sperandei Fundao Oswaldo Cruz

The most importante here is to understand that SD and SEM are the same
measure. The only difference is that SEM is weighted by the inverse of
sample sive (SD/n). So, where SD is not aplicable, SEM will not be
aplicable too...
The second point is to dene what is a "non-parametric data". If you are
talking about categorical or nominal variables, obviously, none of them are
useful. If you have a continous variable that do not follow Normal
distribution, for instance, both are useful, but you have to be careful with
the interpretation.
Give us more information on your data!
Aug 16, 2013

Peter Donald Grifths University of Southampton

Measuring cytokines through ELISA is very much not my topic but may I
make a note based on my understanding of basic stats. Sandro say SD
and SE are the same measure.
That's not quite true. He correctly identies the relationship between the
two. However the SD is a measure of variation in the data (or an estimate
of the variation in the population based on the data at hand). The
Standard Error is a measure of sampling variation - that is the extent to
which sample means vary around the population mean. If you are trying to
describe your data it is unlikely that this is what you want to use.
As for the data being 'non-parametric' this is not really the best way of
looking at it. The data is what the data is - with a variety of 'parameters'.
Non parametric TESTS make fewer assumptions about the underlying
parameters - specically they don't assume normal distributions.
Whatever the distribution of the data, you can calculate mean and SD as
the descriptive statistics - there is nothing 'wrong' about it - provided of
course that the data is not ordinal / nominal rendering the numbers
themselves essentially meaningless .
The question is rather whether or not these are helpful summary
descriptions of central tendency and variation. If the data is highly skewed
the mean probably isn't helpful. The situation in which the SD is unhelpful
is harder to dene but if the data is not normally distributed assumptions
we make based on a normal distribution model about relative frequency
(and symmetry) of observations a certain number of SDs from the mean
will be incorrect.
Aug 16, 2013

Ali Jafari Tehran University of Medical Sciences

Agree with Mr. grifths.
You can always use mean and SD if your data is suitable. Let the reader
him/herself conclude about it.
Aug 29, 2013

Sant-Rayn Pasricha University of Oxford

Many cytokines follow a skewed, logarithmically distributed distribution.
You could consider taking the log of the variable and inspecting that for
normality. Then you could use the transformed variable for parametric
analysis.
Aug 31, 2013

Ekene Vivienne Ezenduka University of Nigeria

Since your data is non-parmetric, that is it's not normally distributed, the
data may have outliers, therefore it maybe unsuitable to use mean, you
should rather use median
Sep 30, 2013

Paul R Torgerson University of Zurich

Find the best distribution that models your data (probably some sort of
squewed distribtion), then calculate the 95% condence intervals (which
will not be symmetrical round the mean) and present as mean +/- 95% CIs
Oct 1, 2013

Tim Sly Ryerson University

Jayagopi...... You are on thin ice here! (A good Canadian metaphor). I
always get nervous when researchers talk about forging ahead describing
non-normal or skewed distributions using measures that were designed
only for normal ones. Previous responders have noted that SD and SE are
indeed related, but they each express answers to different questions. With
regard the skewed distribution, have you tried transforming the data to
reach near-normality, before using SD. And by all means REPORT the SE if
you wish, but don't fail to show the SD. It is valid and tells you something
about the distribution around the mean (both of the population, and
theoretically any sample taken from it).
............................/ts
Jan 20, 2014

Richard Szydlo Imperial College London

Hi Jayagopi.... As I understand, you are trying to provide a description of
your data. A mean with a standard deviation or standard error is going to
give a poor description if your data is skewed. Providing a Median and
range is a much better option, especially if your sample size is less than
about 10... .

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Panagiotis Pantelidis Imperial College Healthcare NHS Trust

If data are non-parametric you should use median and range as mean is
biased by single high measurements
Statistically you should use M-U test between groups
Jan 29, 2014

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Sandheep Sugathan University Kuala Lumpur Royal College of Medicine

Perak
if data is skewed (in other terms if the data is having extreme values that
make data not normally distributed), one should use median and interquartile range for describing the data. This is because both mean and
standard deviation will be affected by extreme values. The use of mean
and standard error is also not recommended because standard error is
determined (standard deviation / square root of sample size) to calculate
95% condence interval of sample mean (sample mean + or - z-alpha
times SE of mean) which helps to locate the position of true value in the
population (true population mean).
Jan 29, 2014

Mohamed Masoud Fayoum University

In my opinion, If the data are skewed you should not use mean to present
these data and you can use the median instead. This is because of that
mean is affected by the extreme values. For example, if there are high
extreme values the mean will increase and will become unrepresentative
of values in the data. You also should use interquartile range as measure
of dispersion.
Mar 14, 2014

Azfar-E-Alam Siddiqi Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

Peter Donald Grifths and Muhamad Masud have explained it well. No,
when you cannot assume a distribution parametric tests are not a good
idea.
Jun 18, 2014

Luis Alberto Snchez Vargas University of Veracruz

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Means and standard deviation (or standar errors) are not appropriate for
reporting data analyzed by nonparametric statistics as they will not
provide a useful description of the location and range of the data. You
should use median with range or interquartile range.
Jul 24, 2014

Cesana Bruno Mario Universit degli Studi di Brescia

Firstly, it is incorrect dene data "non-parametic". Non parametic or
parametric refers to the parent distribution of the data.
Second, it is a good way of using mean +/- standard deviation when the
data come fron a Gaussian distribution; indeed, in this case, the standard
deviation is the best measure of the variability (same measurement scale)
and considering the 3 sigma rule, we have that the 68% is within 1sd, the

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95% (about) is within 2 and the 99.7% (about all) is within 3 sd.

Technical
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Third, we
can usequestions
mean+/- like
standard
error
in the
case
of samples
withanswered

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more than
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least) on
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in this case you can refer to the Central
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Limit Theorem according to which the distribution os the sampling means
of all the samples with the same size tends to be Gaussian with the
standard error as a measure of the variability of the MEANS.
Finally, using +/- standard errors you will give a biased impression of the
data variability and this has to, obviuosly, avoided.

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Aug 16, 2014

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M. Ricky Ramadhian Lampung University

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how about this data if we have data like this?

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Sep 26, 2014

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