TRANSCRIPT: 4th Public Hearing of The Senate Blue Ribbon Committee On The $81-M Money Laundering Case

Republic of the Philippines
CONGRESS OF THE PHILIPPINES

SENATE
Pasay City
COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF
PUBLIC OFFICERS AND INVESTIGATIONS
(BLUE RIBBON)
DATE
Tuesday, April 5, 2016
TIME
10:30 a.m.
VENUE
Session Hall
2nd Floor, Senate of the Philippines
Financial Center, Roxas Boulevard
Pasay City
AGENDA
INVESTIGATION
INTO
THE
ALLEGED
US$100 MILLION THAT WAS LAUNDERED
IN THE PHILIPPINES
ATTENDANCE
SENATORS:
HON.
HON.
HON.
HON.
HON.
TEOFISTO L. GUINGONA III - Chairman

RALPH G. RECTO
- Senate President Pro Tempore
JUAN PONCE ENRILE
- Minority Floor Leader
SERGIO R. OSMEA III
PAOLO BENIGNO BAM AQUINO IV
GUESTS/RESOURCE PERSONS:
Mr. Nestor A. Espenilla Jr.
Deputy Governor, Bangko

Sentral ng Pilipinas (BSP)
COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS

AND INVESTIGATIONS (BLUE RIBBON)
Page 2
Mr. Nelson M. Aspe
Deputy Commissioner in
Operations, Bureau of Internal
Revenue (BIR)
Atty. Marissa O. Cabreros
- Assistant Commissioner for
Legal Service, BIR
Atty. Mitchell L. Yu
- Chief, Regular Large Taxpayers
Audit Division II
Atty. Dennis Funa
- Deputy Insurance
Commissioner, Insurance
Commission (IC)
Atty. Julia C. Bacay-Abad
- Executive Director, Anti-Money
Laundering Council (AMLC)
Secretariat
Mr. Eugene Manalastas
- Chief Operating Officer,
Philippine Amusement and
Gaming Corporation (PAGCOR)
Mr. Raymundo De Guzman
- PAGCOR Representative for
Midas
Mr. Manuel Huberto B. Gaite
- Commissioner, Securities and
Exchange Commission (SEC)
Mr. Lorenzo V. Tan
- President and Chief Executive
Officer, Rizal Commercial
Banking Corporation (RCBC)
Atty. Ma. Celia Fernandez-Estavillo- Head, Legal and Regulatory Affairs
Group, RCBC
Mr. Raul Victor B. Tan
- Executive Vice President
Treasury Group Head, RCBC
Ms. Maia Santos-Deguito
- Former Branch Manager, RCBCJupiter Branch
Mr. Dennis Bancod
- Operations Head, RCBC
Mr. Adrian Yujuico
- Reserve Officer, RCBC
Mr. Reymart A. Marbella
- Customer Service Assistant,
RCBC
Mr. Romualdo S. Agarrado
- Reserve Officer, RCBC
Atty. Alvin Go
- Head and Chief Legal Counsel, BDO
Unibank, Inc.
Ms. Alice Z. Cordero
- 1st Senior Vice President, Global
Compliance Group, Philippine National
Bank (PNB)
Mr. Emmanuel Gomez
- Branch Manager, PNB-Ermita
Atty. Benedicto Valerio Jr.
- Corporate Secretary, EastWest
Banking Corporation
Ms. Bernadette Ratcliffe
- Chief Compliance Officer,
EastWest Banking Corporation

Page 3
Ms. Salud Bautista
President, Philrem Service

Corporation
Mr. Michael Bautista
- Philrem Service Corporation
Mr. Kam Sin Wong a.k.a. Kim Wong - Eastern Hawaii Leisure Company
Ltd.
Mr. William So Go
- Centurytex Trading
Atty. Silverio Benny J. Tan
- Corporate Secretary, Solaire
Resort and Casino Manila
Atty. Katrina L. Nepomuceno
- General Counsel, Leisure and
Resorts World Corporation
(LRWC)
Hon. John Gomes
- Ambassador, Peoples Republic
of Bangladesh
Mr. Jaker Hossain
- Deputy General Manager,
Accounts and Budgeting
Department, Bangladesh Bank
Mr. Mohammad Abdur Rab
- Joint Director, Bangladesh
Financial Intelligence Unit
(BFIU), Bangladesh Bank
Atty. Eduardo Escao
- Representative, Ms. Chang Lai
Fong
Atty. Francis C. Aguilar
- Counsel for Chau Cheuk Wah
SENATORS STAFF
Atty. Nicholai Noel B. Lazaro
Ms. Judith Lee
Mr. Dante Xenon B. Atienza
G.H. Ambat
Ms. Khristine Joy E. Pulumbarit
Mr. Carlo Lopez Vito
Mr. George A. Dolocanog
Mr. Alemar I. Mosquito
Mr. Joseph Irvin A. Obenza
Ms. Michel C. Palma
Ms. Kristela Castronuevo
Ms. Rikka Sotto
Ms. Marni Ortega
Mr. Nyl Mendoza
Mr. Julius Gumban
Mr. Doni Capuyan
Ms. Vina Panes
Ms. Joan Dairo-Revoltar
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Guingona
Guingona
Guingona
Guingona
Guingona
Guingona
Guingona
Recto
Recto
Recto
Recto
Recto
Recto
Enrile
Enrile
Osmea
Osmea
Osmea

Page 4
Ms. Kathreena D. Tam

Mr. Mario C. Palomado
Ms. Judith Manjares
Ms. Cecile Palines
Atty. Alain Baguisi
Mr. Ryan Martin Macalatan
Ms. Ma. Clarissa Lopez
Mr. Ricardo Calimag
O/S
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Osmea
Osmea
Osmea
Aquino
Angara
Pimentel
Binay
Binay
SENATE SECRETARIAT:
Atty. Rodolfo Noel S. Quimbo
Atty. Agapito Rene S. Conchu
Atty. Sarah Lou Y. Arriola
Ms. Josephine DG Herrera
Ms. Susan M. Chua
Atty. Fritzie Jane A. Aduna

Ms. Divina Gracia V. Ramos
Ms. Remedios Amor A. Abagon
Mr. Eutiquio Pacapac
Mr. Leonardo Ramirez Jr.
Ms. Jennifer L. Flores
Ms. Bathaluman H. Gonzales
Ms. Anna Leah C. Catimbang
Ms. Carolina F. Driz
Ms. Maribel P. Mendoza
Ms. Jeanne M. Baisa
Ms. Christine M. Nery
Ms. Marivic H. Ulep
Mr. Guillermo E. Sapinoso Jr.
Ms. Nida A. Mancol
Mr. Rommel P. Alger
Ms. Sherill M. Villadiego
Ms. Cecilia T. Sotto
Ms. Jo B. Cadaing
Ms. Rosemarie J. Ortiz
Ms. Cindell B. Gealan
Director General, Blue Ribbon

Oversight Office Management
(BROOM)
Director III, Assessment and
Monitoring Service, BROOM
Director III, Investigation
Service, BROOM
Director II, Investigation
Service, BROOM
Director II, Assessment and
Monitoring Service, BROOM
Staff, BROOM
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Committee Stenographer
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Page 5
Ms. Helen S. Gayapa

Ms. Jocelyn A. Dela Cruz
Ms. Ma. Emperatriz L. Novero
Ms. Susana Grace L. Robles
Ms. Rosalinda J. Catadman
Mr. Ronnie Cabaero
Ms. Ma. Amity Caragay
Ms. Laarni C. Vidal
Ms. Gina Rowena Nortez
Ms. Mary Jeanette L. Padilla
Mr. Elmer Cardio
Mr. Eric Jalandoon
Mr. Hizar Sarmiento
Mr. Antonio Lazaga
Mr. Ruel Fernandez
Committee Stenographer
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Legislative Page
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Audio Operator
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(For complete list, please see attached Attendance Sheet.)
COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS AND

INVESTIGATIONS (BLUE RIBBON)
JLFLORES
I-1
April 5, 2016
11:34 a.m.
1
AT 11:34 A.M., HON. TEOFISTO L. GUINGONA III,

CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE, CALLED THE HEARING
TO ORDER.
THE CHAIRMAN.
This hearing is called to order.
Good morning, everyone.

Let me begin by acknowledging the senators who are here this
morning, starting with our minority floor leader, Senator Juan Ponce
Enrilegood morning, sir.
We also have Senator Ralph Rectogood
morning, sir.
Okay. We have representatives from the BIRare you around?
Please raise your hand. Okay. So, Mr. Nelson Aspe, Marissa Cabreros,
Mitchell
YuOh,
you
are
out
in
forceShirley
Calapatiagood
morning, everyone from the BIR.

Of course, our deputy governorGovernor Nestor A. Espenilla
good morning, sir.
Representing
the
Securities
and
Exchange
Commission,
member of the AMLC, Commissioner Manuel Gaitegood morning, sir.

Of course, another member of the AMLC, the commissioner of the
Insurance Commission, Atty. Manny Doocwhere are you?wala?
Okay--represented by Atty. Dennis Funa--There you are, okay.
The

JLFLORES
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April 5, 2016
11:34 a.m.
2
AMLC secretary, executive director, Ms. Julia Bacay-Abadmaam,

good morning.
Pagcor, represented by its president, Eugenio Manalastasgood
morning, sir; and Pagcor representative for Midaswhere are you?-Raymund De Guzman? Ah, okay.
For those--please press the mike.
There is a red light, that
means you can talk; then, press again.

Of course, from RCBC, we have Mr. Lorenzo Tangood morning,
sir; Raul Tan, the head of the treasury group and executive vice
presidentgood
morning,
sir;
Atty.
Maria
Celia
Estavillo--good
morning, maam; Reymart Marbella; Romualdo Agarrado; and Pinky

Macaalay, the Unimart branch managergood morning, everyone. Are
all three here? Okay. Thank you.
Rey Maclang of PNB, represented by Ms. Alice Corderogood
morning, maam; and the branch manager of PNB Ermita, Mr.
Emmanuel Gomezare you around? Oh, there you are. Good morning,
sir.
Representing BDO, Atty. Alvin Goare you around? Yes, sir.
Good morning; EastWest Banking Corporation, represented by Atty.
Benedicto
Valerio
and
Bernadette
Ratcliffehello,
maam,
good

JLFLORES
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April 5, 2016
11:34 a.m.
3
morning; Philrem, Ms. Salud Bautista and Michael Bautistagood

morning.
MS. BAUTISTA.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Good morning, sir.

Then, we also have Mr. William Gogood
morning, sir; and Mr. Kim Wonggood morning, sir.

Representing Solaire, Atty. Benny Tangood morning; and
representing Leisure and Resorts World Corporation, Midas Hotel, Atty.
Katrina Nepomucenogood morning; and then we have Mr. Adrian Au
of Dreams Casino and Atty. Jomini Nazarenoare you around? There
you are. Okay, thank you. Good morning.
Maia Santos Deguito, maam, good morning.
We will give you
time. I understand you have a statement later on. We will give you
time to say your statement, maam; Angela Torres, formerly of RCBC
maam, yes, I see you, good morning; and Lauren Anthony Escobar,
the business sales officer of Grepalife. Are you around?
Okay. Can we have those who have not yetwho are here for
the first time, please stand up and take your oath.
Comsec, pleaseDirector General, please administer the oath.
MR. QUIMBO.
Those who are here for the first time, kindly
stand and raise your right hand.

JLFLORES
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April 5, 2016
11:34 a.m.
4
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and
nothing but the truth in this proceeding? [Resource persons nodded.]
[The resource persons who took their oath are Mr. Raymundo De
Guzman, Atty. Dennis Funa, Mr. Nelson Aspe, Atty. Marissa Cabreros,
Atty. Mitchell Yu and Ms. Alice Cordero.]
Thank you. You may take your seats.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Okay. Thank you.
At this point, we would also like to recognize the presence of the

chairman of the Committee on Banks, Senator Serge Osmeagood
morning, sir.
We would also like to acknowledge the presence of the
ambassador of the Peoples Republic of Bangladesh, Ambassador John
Gomesgood morning, sir. The minister and deputy chief of mission,
Ms. Shahnaz Gazigood morning, maam.
The Bangladesh Financial
Intelligence Unit, which I suppose is the counterpart of our AMLC, Mr.

Mohammad Abdur Rabgood morning, sir. We also have the deputy
general manager of the Accounts and Budgeting Department of the
Central Bank of Bangladesh, Mr. Jaker Hossaingood morning, sir.
Okay. Let me begin byitanong natin kay Mr. Kim Wongsir.
MR. WONG.
Yes, sir.

JLFLORES
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April 5, 2016
11:34 a.m.
5
THE CHAIRMAN.
You said in your last hearingang sabi niyo
sa past hearing na mayroon ka pang 450 na willing pang ibalik po,

hindi ho ba?
At sa diyaryo ngayon, nakalagay na ibabalik niyo po
iyong 450willing kayo na ibalik iyong 450 million?
Puwede ba, in
front of everyone, the public now, can we get a commitment that you
will return the 450 million?
MR. WONG.
Opo, sir. Nagpagawa po ako promissory note po,
within 15 to 30 days kasi mangungutang pa ako sa mga kaibigan ko,

mga ibang shares of company ko para maayos ko po.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. WONG.
Okay.
Opo. Ito po iyong promissory note, isa-isubmit ko
po sa Committee niyo po.

THE CHAIRMAN.
Okay. So, within 15 to 30 days, maibabalik
mo na iyong 450 million?

MR. WONG.
Opo, sir. May word of honor po ako.
THE CHAIRMAN.
So, good as cash na iyan, hindi iyan dead
sheets?
MR. WONG.
Hindi po.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. WONG.
Good as cash?
Cash po, ibibigay ko po.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Okay.
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April 5, 2016
11:34 a.m.
6
MR. WONG.
Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Thank you very much.
Okay. Today, I would like to start off with the Philrem.

Okay. Hearing after hearing after hearing, you have been telling
the public that you have delivered P600 million and $18 million to a
certain Mr. Weikang Xu at Solaire.
And I think you have a lot of
explaining to doyou know, I think it is better if you listen to the

question rather than listening to your counsel.
Anyway, counsel, I will give you time toif you wish to consult
with your counsel, it is a good.
But I think you have to explain
because hearing after hearing after hearing, you have been saying to
the public that you delivered 600 million cash to Mr. Weikang Xu at
Solaire and $18 million. But in the last hearing, you contradicted
yourself by saying that .../jlf
11

BRHGonzales
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April 5, 2016
11:44 a.m.
1
THE CHAIRMAN.
by saying that one of the deliveries was
done in your house and you said that Mr. Kim Wong was present. So
there is a contradiction here.
If there was a deliveryand Im
referring to Page 170 of the transcripts, and here you state that there
was a delivery of cash which was done in your house. So if all 600 was
delivered to Solaire plus the 18 million, why now suddenly youre
saying that there is a delivery in your house in the presence of Mr. Kim
Wong? You have contradicted yourself. And mind you, I think you are
facing a lot of problems. I dont think you should add to your problems
by giving false testimony, please.
Now, you can consult with your
counsel if you wish before you answer.

MR. BAUTISTA.
Sir, may I answer that question?
THE CHAIRMAN.
Yes, answer the question.
MR. BAUTISTA.
Okay, sir.
Sir, Philrem is an 18-year old
company with the flawless and spotless record. We do not have any
complaints from any clients or from any transactions
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. BAUTISTA.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Please answer the question.

In this particular transaction, sir
Answer the question.
12

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April 5, 2016
11:44 a.m.
2
MR. BAUTISTA.
Yes, sir. The deliveries were supposedly for a
Weikang Xu. And the first delivery was done in Solaire and everything
else was picked up from our house, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN.
So now, youre contradicting yourself.
In
Page 124, it says and it is Senator Recto asking, in the Senate, you
said in the first hearing, you delivered personally and with the staff to
a certain Weikang Xu.
Ms. Bautista: Weikang Xu, its 600 million and 18 million.
MS. BAUTISTA.
No. Your Honor, I told you that I delivered for
the first transaction in Solaire.

THE CHAIRMAN.
MS. BAUTISTA.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Now, youre splitting hairs.

No, Your Honor.
We can cite several instances where you
were very categorical, everything was delivered. Klaro iyong tanong ni

Senator Recto, you delivered personally, then you said, Weikang Xu,
600 million and 18.
SEN. RECTO.
Mr. Chairman, just to add to that.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Yes, Senator Recto.
SEN. RECTO. In the first hearing, yes, I did ask, that is correct.
And the testimony then was she delivered, together with her staff, 600
13

BRHGonzales
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April 5, 2016
11:44 a.m.
3
million to Weikang Xu in Solairejust 600, walang $18 million. In the

next hearing, mayroon nang 18 million.
THE CHAIRMAN.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes.
Okay.
So dalawang beses na iyan na hindi
nagsabi nang totoo. And in the first two or three hearings also, wala
silang binabanggit that they delivered money or that Kim Wong picked
up money with them.
THE CHAIRMAN.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes. They withheld information.
They withheld information.
At material itong
bagay na ito dahil hinahanap pa natin iyong 15 to 20 million dollars na

kulang.
THE CHAIRMAN.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes, sir.
Material itong bagay na ito.
Remember, we
already said that 31 to $34 million, puwedeng maibalik pa sa Bank of

Bangladesh. Mr. Kim Wong has returned 4.6; Kim Wong has returned
38 million; Mr. Kim Wong promises to return 450 million.
Thats
roughly $15.5 million. So may nawawalang $17 million roughly.

So if I may just want, Mr. Chairman, to follow up on that, based
dito
THE CHAIRMAN.
Go ahead, sir.
14

BRHGonzales
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April 5, 2016
11:44 a.m.
4
SEN. RECTO.
magsasauli ba kayo ng 17 million15 to 17
million dollars?
MR. BAUTISTA.
Sir, there is no $17 million with us.
Secondly, sir, weve been answering all the questions thrown on

us ever since the first hearing and weve been answering all the
questions asked of us ever since the beginning.
Weve given the
complete breakdown of this to the AMLC in the beginning, sir, in

February.
And we came into the Senate knowing that at the end of the day,
we will have to take heats for our business because there are a lot of
questions on how we do things.
But, however, sir, weve always
accepted the fact that this transaction was a mistake. And we will take
the heats because we have to help solve this problem for everybody.
But, sir, we are not keeping money. There is no money with us. The
first, the second hearing, we offered whatever we earned to return.
We were the first one to offer that.
THE CHAIRMAN.
So you categorically state that you do not
have in your possession or in your control, because it might not be in

your possession but it might be under your control, 17, 18 or
thereabouts, dollars.
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BRHGonzales
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April 5, 2016
11:44 a.m.
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MR. BAUTISTA.
We categorically deny
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. BAUTISTA.
Youre under oath.

Yes, sirthat we do not have 17
THE CHAIRMAN.
We have cited to you that No. 1, you have
been selective in giving information;
No. 2, that youve been giving
contradictory statements.
Youre under oath. Ang feeling kasi namin, parang niloloko tayo
dito.
Yes, answer.
MR. BAUTISTA.
Sir, weve been in this business of 18 years
and trust and reputation is the only thing we have.
Iyon lang ang
mayroon kami. Hindi ninyo ho kami puwedeng tawaging manloloko

dahil ho sa tagal na ho namin sa negosyong ito, that is the last thing
that we can be.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Your statements are contradictory. You all
delivered everything to Solaire 18 plus 600 million.
Now, youre
saying, some of them were picked up in your house just because I

cited it. Had I not cited thiskung hindi nakita ito sa transcript, this
contradictory, on the same hearing because one was found in Page
124, while the other is found in Page 170 and we can go on and on.
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11:44 a.m.
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You undertook to bring your messenger, is he around?

MS. BAUTISTA.
Sorry, Your Honor, on our way, he called hes
not feeling well so he will not be able to make it today.

THE CHAIRMAN.
Lumang tugtugin na iyon.
We have the nameyou gave us the name. Could you repeat,

for the record, the name and the address of your messenger? This is
the messenger whom you said delivered the rest of the 600 million to
Solaire to Mr. Weikang Xu.
MS. BAUTISTA.
Your Honor, I only said I delivered to Solaire
the first transaction.

THE CHAIRMAN.
MS. BAUTISTA.
THE CHAIRMAN.
The first tranche.

Yes. And, you know, the
Yes. Wait first. So who delivered the rest?
Your messenger.
MS. BAUTISTA.
It was picked up in our house. Your Honor, I
cannot
THE CHAIRMAN.
MS. BAUTISTA.
THE CHAIRMAN.
It was picked up in your house.

Yes, in several
The last time you said, it was
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BRHGonzales
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April 5, 2016
11:44 a.m.
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MS. BAUTISTA.
No, Your Honor, in several daysseveral
days. It was not one delivery. We already gave you all the delivery
receipts.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
It was picked up in your house.

Yes, Your Honor.
Mr. Chairman, parang sinabi rin iyan noong
umpisa na limang daang piso lang ang kinita, tapos naging sampung
milyon and thenmaliwanag iyong testimony.
Im sure that the
records will bear us out.

SEN. AQUINO. Mr. Chairman, if I may.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Senator Bam.
SEN. AQUINO. This was also my question in the last hearing.

Siguro para malaman na talaga natin iyong katotohanan, for the
record, we can finally state this, magkano po iyong ibinigay ninyo kay
Weikang Xu in cash? For the record. Para klaro na finally kasi paibaiba iyong kuwento. Magkano na finally?
MS. BAUTISTA.
Your Honor, 600 million ang total na pesos
and $18 million.

SEN. AQUINO. And this was given in how many tranches?
MS. BAUTISTA.
Your Honor, we submitted all our receipts.
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11:44 a.m.
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SEN. AQUINO. Tell us, for the record.

MS. BAUTISTA.
Wait lang. Your Honor, six timesbrhg
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April 5, 2016
11:54 a.m.
1
MS. BAUTISTA.
Your Honor, six times.
SEN. AQUINO. The first one is in Solaire.

MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Sino ang kasama ninyo sa Solaire? Ikaw ang
nag-deliver, Ms. Salud?
SEN. AQUINO. You were with?
MS. BAUTISTA. My people in the office. Sina Mark Palmares
and some of the messengers.
SEN. AQUINO.
And these were the messengers that the
Committee requested you to produce.

SEN. AQUINO. Kanino mo binigay iyong pera?
MS. BAUTISTA. Kay Weikang Xu, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Siya lang iyong nandoon?
MS. BAUTISTA. Hindi po, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Sino pa iyong kasama niya?
MS. BAUTISTA.
Madami ho silang Chinese.
Mr. Wong was
present also.
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Aliccatimbang
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April 5, 2016
11:54 a.m.
2
SEN. AQUINO. Which you failed to mention the first time we

asked you.
MS. BAUTISTA. Sir, in our line of business, our business is the
beneficiary. Hindi ho namin ano na sabihin lahat ng mga tao.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Its all right.
The second, third, fourth, fifth and sixth tranche was taken in
your home. Kinuha iyon sa bahay ninyo.
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor, he was present.
SEN. AQUINO. Your husband, Michael, and you were present-MS. BAUTISTA. No, not me.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Michael, could you please state for the
record, were you present the second, third, fourth, fifth and sixth
tranche?
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. From Philrem and your cohorts, mayroon pang
kasama?
MR. BAUTISTA. Cohorts?
SEN. AQUINO. Mga kasama ninyo.
MR. BAUTISTA. Opo, iyong tagabuhat.
SEN. AQUINO. Tagabuhat. Is this also the messenger?
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April 5, 2016
11:54 a.m.
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MR. BAUTISTA. Same people, yes, Your Honor.

SEN. AQUINO. Anong pangalan po noong messenger?
MR. BAUTISTA. Iyon po, si Mark Palmares.
SEN. AQUINO. Siya iyong maysakit ngayon.
MR. BAUTISTA. Opo.
SEN. AQUINO.
Kung ipapahanap ni Senator Guingona iyong
maysakit, mahahanap niyang maysakit?

MR. BAUTISTA. Opo.
SEN. AQUINO. At kanino ninyo binigay iyong pera?
MR. BAUTISTA.
Well, thats the thing, sir.
Yes, I and Kim
Wong was there and he saidWeikang Xu was thereand they signed

all the receipts.
SEN. AQUINO. So just to clarify, the second, third, fourth, fifth
and sixth tranche, kasama si Weikang Xu, may ibang kasamang
Chinese at kasama si Mr. Wong.
SEN. AQUINO. Did he enter your house?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, it was just done by the door.
SEN. AQUINO.
Just done by the door.
And the total is 600
million and $18 million.
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MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir. Weve furnished the Committee with

the breakdown of all the deliveries.
SEN. AQUINO.
And, Mr. Wong, you are saying, Hindi totoo
iyan. Magkano iyong binigay sa inyo ng Philrem?

MR. WONG. Saan po?
SEN. AQUINO. Dito, Mr. Wong. Sabi kasi nila, six tranches, six
times kayo nagkita.
Iyong unang beses, sa Solaire; iyong limang
beses, sa bahay po nila. Ang total na binigay sa inyo ni Weikang Xu is

$18 million and P600 million.
Yes, Mr. Bautista.
MR. BAUTISTA. I need to clarify that. He was there for a few
days. I was gonna tell youremember, you asked me, Which days
were he there? I said, I would have to check. I think three of those
days, he was with the pick-up.
SEN. AQUINO. I would like to ask the Committee to check that
in the records. If Im not mistaken, they answered that Mr. Wong was
present in all of the tranches.
Mr. Chairman, could we have the Committee checked that?
THE CHAIRMAN. Yes. Well have that checked.
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SEN. AQUINO. Mr. Wong, magkano po iyong naibigay sa inyo

ng Philrem?
MR. WONG.
Iyong first ho, hindi ba, 100 million sa Solaire,
February 5. Tapos iyong four timesthree times ho pumunta ako sa

bahay nila.
SEN. AQUINO. So, four times lang kayo?
MR. WONG. Hindi. Three times ho.
SEN. AQUINO. Three total times.
MR. WONG. Opo.
SEN. AQUINO.
And, Mr. Bautista, you are saying now, there
were three other times na hindi kasama si Mr. Wong.

MR. WONG. Four times ho. Sorry po. Your Honor, sorry po.
Four times sa bahay po. Sorry po.
SEN. AQUINO.
Four times sa bahay, isang beses sa Solaire,
Mr. Wong.
THE CHAIRMAN. Sandali lang. Let me interject. This is the
transcript. Ang tanong ninyo po kung Mr. Kim Wong was present in all
deliveries:
Senator Aquino:--Page 170Okay.
So, Mr. Kim Wong was
present in all of the deliveries in cash?
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Ms. Bautista: Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. AQUINO. So, first of all, nagkamali ba kayo dito o paibaiba na naman iyong kuwento?
MS. BAUTISTA. Your Honor, hindi. Were just clarifying now,
specifically now.
SEN. AQUINO. So nagkamali kayo the last time?
THE CHAIRMAN. Youre contradicting yourself.
MS. BAUTISTA. No. Your Honor, were just clarifying. Because
when you asked kung nandoon siya o kung nag-deliver kami
SEN. AQUINO. Mr. Chairman, what was my question?
Could
you read back my question, please?

THE CHAIRMAN. It says, Senator Aquino: Okay. So, was Mr.
Kim Wong present in all of the deliveries of cash?
SEN. AQUINO. Was Mr. Kim Wong present in all deliveries of
cash? Iyon po iyong nasa transcript. Iyon po iyong pagkakaalala ko
doon sa tanong ko.
And Ms. Bautistas answer was?
THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. AQUINO. Yes, Your Honor.
So are you saying na nagkamali kayo in this previous statement?
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MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor, because I was not there in all
the deliveries.
SEN. AQUINO.
Ah.
For your deliveries, Mr. Kim Wong was
present all the time.

MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, which was in Solaire.
SEN. AQUINO. Which was only once, right? But I said, in all
the deliveries. We were talking about multiple deliveries.
MS. BAUTISTA. Because, Your Honor, the others were picked
up at home.
SEN. AQUINO. So hindi siya kasama sa all the deliveries kasi
pick-up siya, hindi delivery?
Alam mo, every hearing ganito iyong
usapan natin.
THE CHAIRMAN. May I? May I interject?
SEN. AQUINO. Yes, Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN.
In Page 132, Senator Recto asked Mr.
Bautista. This is about the deliveries:

They were together?
Yes, sir.
Tanong ni Senator Recto: So in all the deliveries, they were
together?
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Mr. Bautista: Yes, sir.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Kinaklaro na po natin for the final time.
First of all, you know, your attorney should be guiding you better
to tell the truth. What is that oath? To tell the truth, the whole truth
and nothing but the truth. Not the partial truth. I mean, Im sure its
not the partial truth. Its the whole truth. Iyon po iyong oath natin
from the beginning.
Anyway, every hearing nag-iiba po iyong
kuwento. And its very bothersome for me that every hearing paibaiba po iyong kuwento. So, klaruhin na po natin finally.
According to you, there were six times na nagka-exchange ng
pera. Yes. For the record, please, state that.
SEN. AQUINO. The first time was in Solaire.
SEN. AQUINO. Nandoon si Ms. Salud, iyong mga kasamahan sa
Philrem and si Mr. Wong at si Mr. Weikang Xu.
SEN. AQUINO. At nagbigay ka ng P100 million.
MS. BAUTISTA.
Ninety million pesos, Your Honor, and
$500,000.
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SEN. AQUINO. Mr. Wong, do you concur? Totoo po ba iyon?

Was it P90 million and $500,000 in Solaire?
MR. WONG.
Hindi totoo po.
Eighty million pesos po.
Wala
hong 500,000.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Maglilista ako. Balanse ng P10 million
andmagkano iyong dollars na binigay po sa inyo?
MR. WONG. Wala po.
SEN. AQUINO. Wala. Okay.
The second time was in your home, Mr. Bautista.
SEN. AQUINO. Magkano po iyong binigay ninyo?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, P110 million and $3 million.
SEN. AQUINO. Was Mr. Wong present?
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir. Sir, the whole document list, I think
you already have a copy.
SEN. AQUINO. Yes. But I want to cross reference it with Mr.
Wong, for the record.
So, Mr. Wong, pangalawang beses daw po, P110 million, US$3
million. Totoo po ba iyon?
MR. WONG. Iyong P100 million--
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SEN. AQUINO. One hundred ten million pesos (P110 million).

MR. WONG. One hundred million lang po. At saka $3 million,
totoo po iyon.
SEN. AQUINO.
Totoo iyon.
So may balanse ka pa ng 10
million.
Third time, kasama po si Mr. Wong, Mr. Bautista?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, P100 million and $3 million.
SEN. AQUINO. Iyong pangatlong beses po. Third time na ito,
sir, same amounts.
One
hundred
million
pesos,
three
million
dollars,
noong
pangatlong beses. Mr. Wong?

MR. WONG. Saan po iyon tinanggap?
SEN. AQUINO. Sa bahay po nila. Iyong pangatlong beses daw
po.
MR. WONG. Hindi po totoo iyon. Kasi three million, hindi ba,
tinanggap at saka $2 million. Hindi po totoo iyon.
SEN. AQUINO.
So itong third time, wala pong binigay na
dollars sa inyo, Mr. Wong?

MR. WONG. Sorry, sir. One hundred ba at saka two million?
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SEN. AQUINO. No. Mr. Bautista, P100 million and $3 million,

Mr. Bautista?
SEN. AQUINO. Okay.
One hundred million pesos, $3 million, Mr. Wong.
MR. WONG. Sa bahay po?
SEN. AQUINO. Yes. Third time.
MR. WONG. Hindi po totoo iyon. Wala po.
SEN. AQUINO. Noong pangatlong beses pumunta ka sa bahay
nila, walang binigay sa iyong pera?
MR. WONG. Hindi ba iyong una po, 100 million-SEN. AQUINO. Sa Solaire.
MR. WONG. Hindi. Sa bahay po. One hundred million at saka
$3 million.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay.
MR. WONG. Iyong second time/alicc
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MR. WONG.
iyong second time po 100 million at saka $2
million lang po.

SEN. AQUINO.
Okay.
So may balance ka ng $1 million this
time?
Okay. And then there was one more time that Mr. WongSo the
fourth time nagkaroon ng exchange of cash, Mr. Bautista, kasama ba
si Mr. Wong?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, you know, weve beenweve given all our
records.
All the receipts are with you.
Sir, we keep on going,
continuing with this. Wala na ho kaming matitira sa amin ho.

SEN. AQUINO. Mr. Bautista, paiba-iba kasi iyong point mo.
MR. BAUTISTA. You know, its not true. She answered; nalito.
I dont know.
SEN. AQUINO. So nalito.
MR. BAUTISTA. You know, sir, we delivered everything. No
money is with us. We are in this business of delivering
SEN. AQUINO. Im not asking if you have money or not. Im
cross-referencing kung pareho kayo ng kwento ni Mr. Wong
MR. BAUTISTA.
Sir, from the beginning theres already a
difference and it will just continue.
But I will stand my ground, we
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delivered everything.
Well, we delivered once and everything was
picked up in our house.

SEN. AQUINO. Mr. Bautista, answer the question. Iyong fourth
time, magkano po iyong dineliver (deliver) ninyo kay Mr. Wong?
Mr. Wong, iyong pang-apat na beses na may delivery sa inyo,
magkano po iyong pang-apat na beses?
MR. WONG. Hindi po deliver, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Pick-up.
MR. WONG. Kinuha ko po.
SEN. AQUINO.
Iyong pangatlong pick-up sa kanilang bahay
magkano po?
MR. WONG. One hundred million pesos.
SEN. AQUINO. And $3 million?
MR. MR. WONG. Hindi po, wala po iyon. Wala po iyon.
SEN. AQUINO. So nung pangatlong beses wala kang dollars na
kinuha mula kina Mr. Bautista?
MR. WONG. Wala na po.
SEN. AQUINO. Do you agree, Mr. Bautista?
MR. BAUTISTA. No, I deny that, sir.
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SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Thats why I am asking you. Kaya ko

tinatanong sa inyo. Iyong fifth and sixth time, wala na si Mr. Wong?
MR. BAUTISTA.
Wala ho siya, iyong tao lang ho nila ang
kumuha.
SEN. AQUINO. Sino po iyong tao nila na kumuha?
MR. BAUTISTA. Supposedly Weikang Xu was there because the
document was there signed.
SEN. AQUINO. Hindi mo kilala iyong taong kumuha nung pera?
MR. BAUTISTA. Okay. Sir, I was there. I watched them load
the funds and then I asked for the receipt and it was just reached out
to me.
SEN. AQUINO. Binigyan ka ng resibo ni Mr. Weikang Xu?
MR. BAUTISTA. We gave it to him and then he signed and he
returned it
SEN. AQUINO.
So si Mr. Weikang Xu sinasabi ninyo was
present in all of the six transactions?

SEN. AQUINO.
And the dates
of these transactions youve
given to the Committee already?

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SEN. AQUINO. And we will cross reference if Mr. Weikang Xu

was indeed still in the Philippines during that time?
SEN. AQUINO.
Apart from Mr. Weikang Xu, sino pa po iyong
kasama?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, they would come in two cars, sometimes
three cars, a few people, iyong bodyguards, drivers.
SEN. AQUINO.
Mr. Wong--I am sorry for taking the time of the
Chairman.
MR. WONG. Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
Sa pagkakaalam ba ninyo kumuha rin si Mr.
Weikang Xu ng pera mula sa bahay ng mga Bautista?

MR. WONG. Hindi ko po alam. Sa pagka-alam ko po, wala po.
SEN. AQUINO. Kanino ibibigay ni Mr. WeikangSi Mr. Weikang
Xu ay player ninyo, hindi ba? Sa Eastern Hawaii?
MR. WONG. Opo.
SEN. AQUINO. And iyong perang iyan usually pinapasok niya
sa inyo?
MR. WONG. Hindi po. Si Gao ho ang head niya. Kasi sa casino
po may mga head iyan eh.
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SEN. AQUINO. Okay.

MR. WONG. So si Gao ang head, siya po ang magbibigay kung
kanino ipapalaro. Si Weikang Xu hindi po siya head.
SEN. AQUINO.
So realistic ba iyong siya iyong kukuha ng pera
mismo o baka si Mr. Gao iyong kumuha sa kanila?

MR. WONG. Hindi ko po alam. Palagay koHindi ko po alam.
SEN. AQUINO. Hindi ninyo alam?
MR. WONG. Hindi ko po alam.
SEN. AQUINO. So from Philrems point of view, four times with
Mr. Wong, two times with Weikang Xu. And you are correcting your
previous statements?
MR. BAUTISTA. -[Inaudible]
SEN. RECTO. Mr. Chairman, if I may just follow up
THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, Senator Recto.
SEN. RECTO. With the permission of the Chair.
So in effect, Mr. Bautista, if youre saying the money is not with
you, and you claim that you gave this to Mr. Weikang Xu, then the
possibility, and since Mr. Wong and Weikang Xu were together, then
the money is with him. Thats what you are saying or with Weikang
Xu?
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MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, we were asked to deliverWell, the funds

were supposedly for Weikang Xu and in four of those times, one was
delivered, three was picked up, Mr. Wong was there and two
SEN. RECTO. So its not with you, its with them.
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir. Theres no money with us.
SEN. RECTO. Okay, let me continue now. Who ordered you to
give it to Weikang Xu?
MR. BAUTISTA. All the details came from the branch manager.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. Can we ask the branch manager?
Is it true that you ordered Mr. Bautista to deliver all these
amounts of money, 600 million and $18 million to Weikang Xu?
MS. DEGUITO.
Sir, in the first Senate hearing, I already
informed you I dont know Weikang Xu.

SEN. RECTO. So it is not true that you told Concon Baustista or
Philrem to deliver this money to Weikang Xu, it is not true?
MS. DEGUITO. What I have received--to transfer iyong funds
lang po. Iyon lang iyong instruction sa akin. As to how
SEN. RECTO. Meaning to say, to Philrem?
MS. DEGUITO. Opo.
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SEN. RECTO. So from the branch lang, iyong papel lang ninyo,
is what you are saying is, the accountsthe four accounts putting that
money to Wilson Go and go to Philrem. Thats basically it.
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, thats what I exactly told you also in the
executive session.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes.
So you had no instructions to them to
deliver this money to Weikang Xu?

MS. DEGUITO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. But what is clear is $81 million went into
your account, Philrem, okay?
Next point. It is clear $61 million you exchanged with RCBC?
SEN. RECTO.
Correct?
Okay.
And $20 million, you did not
exchange with RCBC, is that correct?
So 81 pumasok sa inyo, 61
nilagay ninyo sa RCBC to exchange, right?

MR. BAUTISTA.
A portion of the difference, sir, I bought for
ourselves for our own transactions.
That would be also included in the
documents that we provided you.

SEN. RECTO. Youve not provided me any document.
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, it was delivered to the ComSec.
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SEN. RECTO.
Okay, well take a look at that.
Nevertheless,
what about iyong Hong Kong-based company na YXR Trading, that

went to Hong Kong, that money?
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir.
SEN. RECTO. One point five million.
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, just to clarify. That transaction is separate
from this 81 million transaction. It just happened to be also in RCBC
that it was sent out using our account to Hong Kong but
SEN. RECTO. Youre claiming, youre claiming. But
Yes, continue.
MR. BAUTISTA.
Okay.
So how we operate, sir, is like this.
We maintain accounts in all banks in Manila, all, plus what we have in

our office of cash.
If you ask me how much my dollar position is, I
would give you a total figure of how much is my balance plus what I
have in cash.
Its like a basket.
So when we make a delivery, we
actually get it from different places and not only from where it came in
because once I buy dollars fromWell, once the dollar is credited to
our RCBC account, it now becomes our committed transaction.
But
where we get the dollars to deliver is not necessarily from RCBC.
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SEN. RECTO. I understand all of these, Michael. Ulitin ko lang

ha. What is clear is, $80 million went into your account?
Okay. And
you knew that this money was coming into your account?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, it was called when it came.
SEN. RECTO. Yes.
MR. BAUTISTA. Not from before.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
So you did not know before?
You were
not expecting it?

MR. BAUTISTA. No, sir.
SEN. RECTO.
And you are claiming that Ms. Deguito told you
what to do with the $80 million?

SEN. RECTO.
At hindi kayo nagtaka na pinawi-withdraw sa
inyoCan you imagine your testimony, Mr. Concon, P600 million

delivering in a casino, first night a hundred millionDo you confirm
you had dinner with Mr. Wong and Ms. Deguito pala in Solaire?
SEN. RECTO. So you confirm/cfd
.
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SEN. RECTO. So you confirm that you all met togetherMr.

Wong, you and Ms. Deguito?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, we had dinner.
SEN. RECTO. Yes. That was when, February 5?
After the delivery, he invited us to
dinner.
SEN. RECTO. So you were with Ms. Salud Bautista in the first
delivery?
SEN. RECTO. Ms. Salud Bautista said earlier that she made the
first delivery, she didnt mention that she was with you. She did not?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, but
SEN. RECTO.
So anyway, the point is this, so you were all
together, Michael
MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
SEN. RECTO. Mr. Kim Wong and Ms. Deguito.
Ms. Deguito, do you confirm that you were in a dinner?
MS. DEGUITO.
Yes, sir.
I would frequent naman po Solaire
whenever Sir Kim will ask me to.
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SEN. RECTO. Correct. Okay. And that was on February 5 in

the evening?
SEN. RECTO.
When the first transaction took place, right?
Okay.
Do you confirm the statement of Kim Wong also that you
delivered 20 million to him?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, I saw kasi the last hearing po. I confirm
that that is my car but I did not deliver anything. Mr. Kim Wong was
saying he got 100 million.
SEN. RECTO. Mr. Kim Wong said 80 from Salud
MS. DEGUITO. Opo.
SEN. RECTO. and 20, it would appear, from Mr. Simon(?)
MS. DEGUITO. Honestly, Your Honor, ayaw ko na din sanang
makisali doon as to total kasi he said, she said. But I will just tell
you po, I did not deliver anything in Solaire. I just went there.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
Kilala ninyoyou know, Ill have to get
into details now on relationships as well, with the permission of the

Chair.
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So Ms. Deguito, you were in a dinner with Concon and Mr. Wong.
Concon claims that you instructed him to deliver to Weikang Xu, right?
And youre claiming that you never instructed him.
Did you instruct
him to deliver the money to Kim Wong?

MS. DEGUITO. Sir, my instructions were just within the bank
transactions. As to where the funds will go, on how it will be delivered,
I have no
SEN. RECTO. So in that dinner in Solaire
MS. DEGUITO. Nag-chance lang po. I went there, they were
there and Sir Kim asked us to have dinner together.
SEN. RECTO. So biglaan, nag-chance lang?
MS. DEGUITO. Wala po. Hindi po siya nakaplano.
SEN. RECTO. In that night na pumasok iyong $80 million or at
least the first tranche which is 22 million, if my records are correct,
nag-deliver ng 100 million doon80 plus 20si Ms. Salud and
conveniently she left out in our first hearing the name of Kim Wong
and did not mention the presence of Concon Bautista until it was
revealed in the last hearing, the third hearing, that Mr. Wong was
present in all the deliveries and pick-ups and in this case the first
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delivery in Solaire, there was even a dinner after in a Korean

restaurant.
Nagkataon lang nandoon ka?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, sir. Malimit naman po akong pumupunta
sa Solaire pag pinapatawag ako ni Sir Kim.
SEN. RECTO. So pinatawag ka that night?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, sir, that night.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. That night, nalaman mo ba na may isang
daang milyon na delivery?
MS. DEGUITO. I have no idea, sir.
SEN. RECTO. You have no idea. Pero pinatawag ka?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, sir.
SEN. RECTO. Ano ang pinag-usapan ninyo, bakit ka pinatawag?
MS. DEGUITO. Wala po. Iyong casual, iyong normal na pinaguusapan.
SEN. RECTO. Matagal mo nang kilala si Mr. Bautista?
MS. DEGUITO.
Yes po.
Simula po noong teller pa ako sa
bangko.
SEN. RECTO. So how many years?
MS. DEGUITO. Mga 15 years, 16 years.
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SEN. RECTO. Fifteen years?

MS. DEGUITO. Opo.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
Question, who instructed you as branch
manager naman to deal with Philrem, to transfer the amount of money

of William Go in his account to Philrem?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir Kim po asked to look for someone that could
assist themI mean the accounts I am saying, to have it converted to
peso, iyong mga dollars po.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. And you recommended Philrem?
MS. DEGUITO. Oo, because I know he knows Concon.
SEN. RECTO. Because alam mo na kilala niya si Concon?
MS. DEGUITO.
Opo.
Para at least whenever there is
kumbaga, kung may mga kailangan siyang iklaro regarding

SEN. RECTO.
Did you every mention to
Concon naman this
$80 million you guys were dealing with Kim Wong?

mention that to Concon?
Did you ever
When you asked himwhen you asked
Philrem na, Uy, sige, kayo na ang mag-convert nito into pesos, kayo
na iyong middle agent dito, one way or the other. Hindi ba? Okay.
So nabanggit mo bao did you mention to Concon Bautista that,
Uy, kayo ang nag-uusap ditosi Kim Wong, ikaw at si Philrem?
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MS. DEGUITO.
As far as I can remember, opo.
Kasi nga
magkakilala naman sila.

SEN. RECTO. Parang ganoon, magkakakilala sila?
MS. DEGUITO. Opo.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. So maliwanag. And then you knew that
they could have the cash?
MS. DEGUITO. Sorry po?
SEN. RECTO. And that you knew Philrem could be able to get
the cash?
MS. DEGUITO. As to iyong cash delivery, sir, I have no idea on
that.
Basta ang instructions lang po sa akin is just to transfer the
funds.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. So let me go back to Philrem.
Philrem, did you know that you were dealingWell, you were
dealing with Ms. Deguito and you know each other, youve been
working for a long time, she never told you that you guys were dealing
with Kim Wong also?
MR. BAUTISTA. No, sir. She didnt mention it was Kim.
SEN. RECTO. So you just believed, face value, to Weikang Xu,
parang ganoon?
45

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April 5, 2016
12:14 p.m.
7
MR. BAUTISTA. No, sir. The transaction came from an RCBC

account, supposedly William Gos account. So
SEN. RECTO. So what?
MR. BAUTISTA. She didnt say that it was Kims transaction.
SEN. RECTO. Yes. Butokay. If you are saying thatdid you
ever talk to William Go?
SEN. RECTO. Do you know William Go?
SEN. RECTO. You never met him before?
MR. BAUTISTA. Never, sir.
SEN. RECTO. Okay.
So you believed the branch manager and
not the owner of the account, William Go?

SEN. RECTO. Paano kung hinanap ni William Go iyong pera sa
inyo at sinabi sa inyo, Uy, bakit mo diniliver (deliver) iyan diyan, wala
naman akong utos na ganyan. Is that how you do business?
MR. BAUTISTA.
Sir, as I was explaining earlier, weve been
doing this for 18 years. The safest transaction you can ever do is with
the branch manager kasi hindi ka matatagpuan, siya ang magki-credit
46

MPMENDOZA
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April 5, 2016
12:14 p.m.
8
sa iyo, siya ang magde-debit ng account mo.
Thats the safest
transaction
SEN. RECTO. Okay. So you said that you never knew. But then
you delivered the hundred million to Weikang Xu with Mr. Kim Wong
and you had dinner that night. So that was the first time you knew?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, when we delivered the cash and he was
there, his explanation was he was the interpreter of the players. That
was the onlywe didnt know it was his transaction. All he mentioned
was there was his player, theyre getting their money
SEN. RECTO. Gaano katagal na kayong magkakilala?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, socially, we would bumped into each other
because of common friends.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. You never had business before?
MR. BAUTISTA. Never, sir.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. And then after that, he became your visitor
at home?
MR. BAUTISTA. To pick up the money, sir.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. Was Mr. Weikang Xu always with him in
picking up the money?
47

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April 5, 2016
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9
SEN. RECTO. Always?

SEN. RECTO. Okay. In all the transactions?
SEN. RECTO.
And you claimed that you gave a total of six
hundred and eighteen million dollars?

SEN. RECTO. So in effect, if he claims that he did not receive
this 18 million, its either with you or with him? Parang ganoon iyon,
hindi ba?
SEN. RECTO. Okay. And youre saying for this transaction, you
made 10 million, thats it?
MR. BAUTISTA. Ten million four seventy-four something.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay. So thats your claim, thats what youre
saying?
SEN. RECTO. Okay. Where did you get the cash?
MR. BAUTISTA.
Sir, if you will check the diagram that we
submitted to you, sirJust to explain to you, sirI was explaining to
48

MPMENDOZA
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April 5, 2016
12:14 p.m.
10
you earlier. So we actually maintain a lot of cash in our own vaults.

And when we have a big delivery, we would use whatever we have or
source it from the banks or from other sources. And this is something
we do regularly. We keep the cash because we need it regularly. And
the sources of our notes are from basically everywherefrom the
banks, from pawnshops, from different institutions. There are certain
cases where the banks would call us, lets say, a small branch where
we banked with and say, Hey! There is a withdrawal here for some
dollars. Can you deposit some dollars to us?
Okay.
I mean, we
would deposit to our account so that that branch would be able to

serve a client.
On the other end, there would be a branch that would say that
SEN. RECTO. Mr. Concon, my question is simple.
Where did you get the cash? Can you answer the question? For
example, are you claiming that you had in your vaultIs that your
testimony now, that you did not get that from the bank? /mpm
49

JmBaisa
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April 5, 2016
12:24 p.m.
1
SEN. RECTO. that you did not get that from the bank?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, we got it from allfrom banks, from
SEN. RECTO. No. Name of the banks.
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, I dont think I want to name you the bank
becauseI mean
SEN. RECTO. Why not? Why, you refuse to cooperate with the
Committee?
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, we have been cooperating since the first
day.
SEN. RECTO. No, but you have been contradicting yourself. In
the first day, Michael, you were not even here.
I dont know if you
were hiding, but your wife was here.

MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir. I wasnt invited in the first meeting.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
Your wife was hereYou were invited
verbally according to the Chairman of the Committee.

THE CHAIRMAN.
Senator Osmea gave word to Ms. Salud for
you to come over.

SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
Anyway, lets move on.
In the first
hearing, there was no mention of $18 million; there was no mention of

Kim Wong with Ms. Salud and that she made it appear to the
50

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April 5, 2016
12:24 p.m.
2
Committee that all the deliveries were in Solaire and that she did the
first delivery and that your messengers did not succeed in deliveries.
Thats how it appeared to me, at least. Okay?
In the second hearingI have no question yetin the second
hearing, mayroon nang biglang $18 million, and then always it was Ms.
Deguito giving the instructions, which she denies right now, that she
never gave any instructions, and you were also saying that she gave
the instruction for you to deliver the money to Eastern Hawaii Leisure
Corporation.
Yes, thats the question now.
SEN. RECTO.
Ms. Deguito told you to deliver P1 billion
telegraphic transfer to Eastern Hawaii Leisure Corporation through a

PNB, Cagayan Branch.
SEN. RECTO. She gave that instruction?
MS. BAUTISTA. Yes. Your Honor, can I?
SEN. RECTO.
Did you know who the owner was of Eastern
Hawaii?
MS. BAUTISTA. No, Your Honor.
51

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April 5, 2016
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3
Your Honor, question.

SEN. RECTO. No, you cannot ask a question.
MS. BAUTISTA. Not question, to clarify lang.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. If you want to clarify, you may.
MS. BAUTISTA. Okay, because
SEN. RECTO. And please address the Chair.
MS. BAUTISTA. May I clarify, Mr. Chair?
SEN. RECTO. Mr. Chairman. You have to address the Chair.
Yes, please continue, with the permission of the Chair.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MS. BAUTISTA.
Yes. Continue, please.

Okay.
No.
Your Honor, because you were
saying all these things that I was excluding on my information and all,
Your Honor, because my legalI already submitted my STR.
I was
advised that my STR cannot actually be revealed in public because I

can be criminally liable. Thats why I want to say a lot of things but
SEN. RECTO. What is an STR?
MS. BAUTISTA. Thats the Suspicious Transaction Report.
SEN. RECTO. Okay.
MS. BAUTISTA. Since I am a covered institution, they told me
that I cannot say so many things about the transactions specifically.
52

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April 5, 2016
12:24 p.m.
4
SEN. RECTO. So do you want to have an executive session?

MS. BAUTISTA. We requested twice, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO. O, sige. So maybe that can be for consideration
by the Committee.
But just let me follow up.
So you were saying that you were
instructed by Ms. Deguito to send the money to Eastern Hawaii Leisure

Corporation, thats roughly P1 billion?
SEN. RECTO. Okay. And that you were instructed to send the
money through BDO one billion to Solaire?
MS. BAUTISTA. One point three six five billion, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay. And then, what other banks?
Iyon lang
ba? Thats it?

MS. BAUTISTA. Iyon lang po, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
Iyong Solaire.
And then to Centurytex Trading
also?
MS. BAUTISTA. Your Honor, that was the first transaction. The
first transaction was merely
SEN. RECTO. Okay, please explain the transaction.
53

JmBaisa
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April 5, 2016
12:24 p.m.
5
MS. BAUTISTA. Okay. The first transaction was merely a trade,

and then
SEN. RECTO. What does that mean, merely a trade?
MS. BAUTISTA. Trade, meaning, I will buy their dollars and sell
to Treasuryto RCBC Treasury to convert it into pesos. So I credited
their account.
And then, she said that the fund is needed to be
transferred to BDO Bloomberry account and needed cash, so I helped

source the cash and I made sure that the transaction would go to BDO
as clear funds. It cannot be a check; it cannot be a managers check
because it will go through clearing, so it has to be clear fund.
So I
made that happen that day.

SEN. RECTO.
So thats not part of what you delivered, 100
million, that went through the bank?

MS. BAUTISTA. What do you mean, sir? Because I treat it as a
transaction because it was
SEN. RECTO.
Okay. And that also was instructed by Ms.
Deguito?
SEN. RECTO.
Ms.
Deguito, do you confirm any and all of
these?
54

JmBaisa
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April 5, 2016
12:24 p.m.
6
MS. DEGUITO.
Sir, on the cash, wala po akong alam doon.
Pero iyong sinasabi niya na to transfer to Bloomberry and

SEN. RECTO. Yes. Eastern Hawaii.
MS. DEGUITO. Yeah. Parang may ganoon. I remember having
instructed by Sir Kim to have those accounts be credited by certain
amounts.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. So Kim instructed you?
MS. DEGUITO. Opo.
SEN. RECTO. And you instructed them?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes po.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
Would you know anything, Ms. Deguito,
kung nabigay ba talaga kay Weikang Xu iyong $17-18 million?

MS. DEGUITO. Sir, I have no idea.
SEN. RECTO. You have no idea.
And, Ms. Deguito, for all of this work, walang pinangako sa iyo?
MS. DEGUITO. Iyong ADB po na peso.
SEN. RECTO. You have
MS. DEGUITO. Iyon lang po iyong pinramis (promise) sa akin,
that I will get
SEN. RECTO. Walang commission whatsoever?
55

JmBaisa
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April 5, 2016
12:24 p.m.
7
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, wala po. I told you that already, that in the
name of my children, I did not get anything, even a single cent.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. Including na pangako?
MS. DEGUITO. Mayroon naman pong pangako, iyon nga, iyong
madadagdagan iyong balance ko in the bank.
SEN. RECTO. Iyong ADB lang. Okay. And ikaw ang nag-decide
na PhilRem.
Aside from being the friend of Kim Wong and Concon
Bautista of PhilRem, bakit sila mismo? Dahil malaking kumpanya sila,

kayang-kaya nilang i-cash itong mga ito? Ganoon ba iyon?
MS. DEGUITO. Matagal ko na po silang kilala. And most of the
clients, kilala rin nila. So iyong level po ng comfortability nandoon na
kasi iyong mga valued clients din naman in the bankthat I have in
the branch
SEN. RECTO. That day na nag-dinner kayo sa Solaire, hindi ka
nagtaka na when you were having dinner na Mr. Kim Wong, Concon
and you together?
MS. DEGUITO. Hindi po.
SEN. RECTO. And that the first transaction, natuloy?
56

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April 5, 2016
12:24 p.m.
8
SEN. RECTO. Hindi. Okay. Then, let me continue, Ms. Bautista

and Mr. Concon Bautista.
You had several transactions with the RCBC$61 million
pinalitan ninyo, hindi ba, on the dates of February 5, February 9 and
February 10?
Parang minamadali ninyong i-encash or mailipat iyong
pera, it would appear. And all of these were instructed again by Ms.
Deguito, thats what youre saying, you confirm that?
MR. BAUTISTA.
Sir, when we first got the call, they even
wanted to do it in one dayto do theWe said we cannot, we have to

do it in tranches.
And you know, sir, we really wanted toI mean,
when we do something, we do it ano.

SEN. RECTO. Okay. And then, mayroon kayong transaction din
with Awal, $10 million, that did not go through RCBC, that did not find
its way in the
casino.
You had the transaction with an affiliate, I
suppose, WeRQuick, $1.65 million.

MS. BAUTISTA.
Yes, Your Honor, its a different transaction.
As we have said how we operate our system.

SEN. RECTO.
But you confirm there was a transaction on
February 5 as well?
MS. BAUTISTA. Feb. 5, with whom, sir?
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9
SEN. RECTO. AWAL and WeRQuick, mga $11.6 million din iyon.
MS. BAUTISTA. February 5?
SEN. RECTO. Oo.
MS. BAUTISTA. I have to check, Your Honor, parang
SEN. RECTO.
Oo. And then, on February 9, you had an YXR
Trading, $1.5 million through Hong Kong account.

MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir. Thats a different transaction.
SEN. RECTO. Yes. But, you know, looking at these, all of these
happened February 5 to 10.
These transactions were done /jmb
58

CMNERY
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April 5, 2016
12:34 p.m.
1
SEN. RECTO.
these transactions were done. Were looking
for the $20 million also. And there were series of transactions within
these dates na hindi RCBC naman ang kausap ninyo, iba.
It would
appear. Then various withdrawals were made. Okay. Were looking

for these $20 million.
Okay. So, to continue
Ms. Deguito, ano naman iyong relationship ninyo with William
Go? May negosyo ba kayo?
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
Iyon sinasabing rediscounting?
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
Sir, no.
I have no idea on that, Your Honor.

You have no idea on that.
Mr. William Go, didnt you testify that you had something to do
with rediscounting with Ms. Deguito?
MR. W. GO.
Yes, Your Honor. As Ive said si Mr. Alan Pealosa
ang kausap ko sa East West Bank. Siya ang binibigyan ko ng tseke na

for rediscounting.
SEN. RECTO.
Ano naman iyong relationship ni Pealosa kay
Deguito sa rediscounting?
MR. W. GO.
Hindi ko po alam.
Basta kay Mr. Pealosa ko
binibigay
59

CMNERY
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April 5, 2016
12:34 p.m.
2
SEN. RECTO.
MR. W. GO.
So only with Mr. Pealosa?

I do the rediscounting with Mr. Pealosa.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. W. GO.
And then si Pealosa and Deguito came from

Same bank before EastWest Bank.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. W. GO.
Same bank before. And they know each other?

They know each other.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
You know each other, Maia?

Yes, Your Honor.
Do you have business with Mr. Pealosa?
No, Your Honor.
You never did rediscounting with him?
Never.
You never transacted with him?
Never, Your Honor.
Even if we call him and ask him?
Im sorry?
Even if we call him and ask him, he will confirm
that you dont have any business transaction?

MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes, Your Honor.

Okay. One question lang with the AMLC.
60

CMNERY
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April 5, 2016
12:34 p.m.
3
Ms. Julia Abad, we looked at the documents that you submitted

to the Committee, youve frozen many accounts. Until today, youve
never frozen an account of Philrem?
MS. ABAD.
As far as the Philrem accounts are concerned, Your
Honor, I think there are two accounts frozen?

SEN. RECTO.
MS. ABAD.
With RCBC, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. ABAD.
In RCBC?
Magkano iyong pera in those accounts?
Let me just check my records, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
Yeah.
Anything significant?
I would be winding up also, Mr. Chairman, just last two points na
lang. I dont want to take much time of the Committee as well.
Hindi naman $18 million?
MS. ABAD.
Definitely not, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. ABAD.
One million dollars?
Let me just check my records, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay. So all their accounts in RCBC nothindi
rin? Only two.

MS. ABAD.
If Im not mistaken, Your Honor, just the accounts
that were used in transferring these funds, Your Honor.
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CMNERY
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4
SEN. RECTO.
Okay. So kung zero balance iyan, na-transfer na
iyong funds, posibleng zero balance din.

Anything significant below 10 million or above?
MS. ABAD.
The total amount that has been frozen in Philrem
accounts, Your Honor, is 21,607,731

SEN. RECTO.
MS. ABAD.
Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. ABAD.
Twenty-one million, more or less?
Twenty-one million pesos, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
Ito iyong sa Philrem?
Okay. Ang pesosAng Philrem.
Kung may nawawala tayong $18 million, hindi kaya
puwede tingnan in other accounts kung posible? Are you doing that?
Are you looking at that?
MS. ABAD.
Im sorry, Your Honor, whats the question?
SEN. RECTO.
MS. ABAD.
I mean, you hear the testimony here.
Yes.
SEN. RECTO.
Theres something missing, right? Okay. Arent
you looking at that?

MS. ABAD.
Were definitely looking at that. Were looking at
all the moneywhere all the money went.
So if it can really be
62

CMNERY
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12:34 p.m.
5
established that part of these monies was retained by Philrem, then we

have to run after that money, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
So Im sure youre listening attentively
here.
MS. ABAD.
Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
And then one question with regard to the
casinos.
Solaire representative.
Mahalaga din iyong sa casino dito. You have frozen a hundred
seven million.
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes, Your Honor.

At iyan hinihintay lang ninyo that the court
orders maibalik sa Bank of Bangladesh?

MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
Thats correct, Your Honor.

So mayroon nang mababalik?
Kung mayroon
nang 4.6 million, mayroon nang 38 million$40.6 million, 38 million

with two fake 500 bills and 107 millionAnd theres another 1.6
million, right?
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. S. TAN.
Theres a cash portion, Your Honor, 1.3

One point three million.
Yes, Your Honor.
63

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12:34 p.m.
6
SEN. RECTO.
So that is clear na puwedeng ibalik na sa Bank of
Bangladesh at the very least. Okay. It would appear. You are just
waiting for a court order, right?
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.

And let me laud your effort for being able to
recover this money, to begin with, and for providing the Committee
with the passports, information of all these players.
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes, Your Honor.

I think 18 of them, right?
MR. S. TAN.
Nineteen, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
Nineteen. Im sorry.
And was Weikang Xu ever a player in Solaire?

MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
He is not there, Your Honor.

He is not, right? He is not a part of it, okay, in
Solaire?
Now nahuli ninyo iyong mga taong ito, di ba?
MR. S. TAN.
When we took action on March 10, Your Honor,
there was a group of people that remained.

SEN. RECTO.
Are anyone of them here yet today in this
country?
MR. S. TAN.
We do not know, Your Honor.
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12:34 p.m.
7
SEN. RECTO.
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
Kailan umalis sa inyo?

After March 10, Your Honor.
So when you say nahuli ninyo, what does that
mean?
MR. S. TAN.
When they were playing, we stopped them from
playing and we confiscated all the chips.

SEN. RECTO.
Okay. And then?
MR. S. TAN.
We went up to their room and while in their
presence confiscated their cash.

SEN. RECTO.
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
Hindi sila nagreklamo?

No, Your Honor.
So you confiscated them. Hindi ba ninyo pina-
blotter sa pulis or anything like that?

MR. S. TAN.
No, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
Bakit niyo kinonfiscate (confiscate) iyong pera
nila? For what reason?

MR. S. TAN.
We took a risk, Your Honor.
Its possible that
what we did can be questioned by them. But we decided to take the

right side of history, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. S. TAN.
So para kunin na lang iyong pera?

Yes, Your Honor.
65

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SEN. RECTO.
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
Did you detain them?

We have no authority to detain them, Your Honor.
But you have no authority to get that money
also, right?
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
It was a risk we took, Your Honor.

Hindi ninyo itinuloy? Dinetain (detain) na sana
ninyo and then pina-blotter ninyo. Tama? Kalahati lang iyong ginawa
ninyo.
Nevertheless, you were able to recover the money partially,
right?
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes, Your Honor.

Did AMLC ever get in touch with you until March
10?
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. S. TAN.
SEN. RECTO.
No, Your Honor.

Never. They never did.
No, Your Honor.
But they had the freeze order on March 1, Ms.
Julia Abad, right?

MS. ABAD.
Are we talking of the Bloomberrys account, Your
Honor?
SEN. RECTO.
No. Were talking about, you acted on March 1,
at least, you froze the accounts, right?
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MS. ABAD.
Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. ABAD.
We coordinated with Pagcor after the March 1
SEN. RECTO.
MS. ABAD.
Did you ever coordinate with Pagcor?
After March 1?
Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
But you were informed of the situation much
earlier, FebruaryFebruary 10? February 11?
When were you
informed?
MS. ABAD.
February 11, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
February 11.
Doesnt it bother you, Ms. Julia, that now in the Committee, we

find out that you never coordinated with Pagcor?/cmn
67

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April 4, 2016
12:44 p.m.
1
SEN. RECTO. with Pagcor?

MS. ABAD. We coordinated with Pagcor after the March 1-SEN. RECTO. After March 1?
MS. ABAD. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO. But you were informed of this situation much
earlier, Februarywhat, February 10? February 11? When were you
informed?
MS. ABAD. February 11, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO. February 11. Doesnt it bother you, Ms. Julia, that
now in the Committee we find out that you never coordinated with
Pagcor?
MS. ABAD. We did coordinate with Pagcor butBecause initially,
Your Honor, considering that Pagcor and the casinos are not covered
institutions
SEN. RECTO. Yes, but you are both government agencies.
MS. ABAD. we were of the impression that we cannot require
them to submit any transactions-SEN. RECTO. No, no, no, were not talking about requiring the
casinos. Were talking about coordinating with the government agency,
in this case, Pagcor, the regulator of casinos. Bakit hindi kayo nag-
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uusap? Alam naman ninyo iyong pera dumiretso, pumunta sa casino

iyong three of the four billion.
MS. ABAD. Uh-huh. What we did, Your Honor, just to trace the
money is to get an order of bank inquiry from the Court of Appeals to
look into the accounts of Bloomberry so that we will be able to trace
where the money went.
SEN. RECTO. Yes, but you know it was already Bloomberry. Now
the point is this-MS. ABAD. So we just did it the little way, Your Honor. We need
a court order so that the AMLC can inquire into the accounts.
SEN. RECTO. No, no, I understand that. Im talking about
coordinating with Pagcor, huh?
Now let meNahuli nila iyong mga tao, March 10. You acted
already as mentioned earlier.
SEN. RECTO. If you coordinated with Pagcor and Pagcor
coordinated with them, di sana iyong mga taong iyan, 19 of them
would still be here. Thats the point Im just trying to drive at. Thats
just the point Im trying to drive at, huh?
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We have the copy of their passports, right? Nahuli na iyong mga

tao, nakuha na iyong pera sa kanila. Sayang iyong pagkakataon.
Thats all Im trying to drive at.
So Pagcor namanmay representative ba ang Pagcor dito?
MR. MANALASTAS. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO. Yes. Pagcor, when you found outhow did you
find out? AMLC never contacted you. If I recall, the Chairman said
before you read it in Inquirer, February 29.
MR. MANALASTAS. Correct, Your Honor, through the papers.
SEN. RECTO. Did you call the attention of the casinos?
MR.
MANALASTAS.
Yes,
Your
Honor,
we
started
the
investigation.
SEN. RECTO. Okay.
MR. MANALASTAS. And we were awaiting for their reply.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. Did they inform you na, Oy, we have a 107
million here. We got 1.3 million in cash. Hey, there are 19 individuals
here in their bedrooms. May ganoon ba? Wala?
MR. MANALASTAS. In their report, they did provide us with the
amounts.
SEN. RECTO. Report lang?
MR. MANALASTAS. Yes, but they mentioned the--
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SEN. RECTO. No, pero may tao naman kayo doon, hindi ba?
May tao kayo doon? You have representatives in all these hotels and
casinos, right?
MR. MANALASTAS. Yes, sir.
SEN. RECTO. Hindi niyo ba napag-usapan iyon na, Oy, ito,
baka ito iyong sa money laundering. Ito iyong mga taong involved.
Hindi ninyo napag-usapan iyan?
MR. MANALASTAS. Wala naBy that time, Your Honor, wala na
iyong mga players.
SEN. RECTO. When you found out?
MR. MANALASTAS. Yes, sir.
SEN. RECTO. No, at least the head. But your people in the
casino were there for sure.
MR. MANALASTAS. Yes, but they didnt know also that
SEN. RECTO. No one from Pagcor knew?
MR. MANALASTAS. that these people were subject of, you
know, any investigation.
SEN. RECTO. So youre saying that no one from Pagcor knew?
MR. MANALASTAS. That they were involved in an investigation?
No, we didnt know.
SEN. RECTO. Okay.
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MR. MANALASTAS. The players.

SEN. RECTO. Is that correct, Atty. Tan? Walang coordination
with Pagcor when hinuli ninyo iyong mga tao and then you got the 107
million, so on and so forth?
MR. S. TAN. Yes, Your Honor, it was a management action to
stop the play and take all-SEN. RECTO. Pagcor had no idea of what you were doing?
MR. S. TAN. We did not inform Pagcor before we took action.
SEN. RECTO. Okay, thank you. And then finally, may I ask the
BSP and maybe some representatives of the banking industry here.
Ive read in the papers thatof course, this is a sensitive issue as far
as the banking sector is concerned. First question, what is the
relevance of all of these to Filipinos?
First, Id like to put on record as well, this is a problem that did
not start from us, huh? Biktima rin ang Pilipinas dito to a certain
degree. Let me put that on record, huh?
One, it would appear, hindi naman Filipino hackers ito. Posible
Chinese hackers. In most probability, Chinese hacker, maliwanag,
hindi Filipino. Okay.
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Pangalawa, may nagkulang din sa Bank of Bangladesh, central

bank nila, may natulog sa kangkungan, so to speak. Nakapasok sa
kanila. Okay.
Pangatlo, pumasok na sa Pilipinas, it was exported to us to a
certain degree. Nakita nila may vulnerability iyong banking system or if
not the banking, one bank. Nakapasok dito. Okay.
And now we in government, were trying to do our best to assist
the Bangladesh government and the Bangladesh people and to be able
to improve our legislation. And in the process, find out also who should
be responsible and accountable.
Now having said that, how has this affected now our OFWs or
those who remit to the Philippines? Have the spreads increased
already? Mayroon na bang ganoon? May collateral damage na ba iyong
OFWs natin?
MR. ESPENILLA. Mr. Chairman, with respect to this particular
development, theres no evidence yet that it has affected the cost of
remittances in the country. But having said that, I think it was also
pointed
out earlier that the Philippines actually is experiencing
increasing difficulty in terms of remittance flows because of the

perception of problems of weak environment in the country in terms of
our money laundering, Mr. Chairman.
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SEN. RECTO. Will you say nagso-slow down iyong pasok ng

dolyar sa Pilipinas?
MR. ESPENILLA. Not that, Mr. Chairman. Its that some of the
remittance companies are finding it difficult to find correspondent
banks abroad.
SEN. RECTO. To deal with them.
MR. ESPENILLA. To deal with them, Mr. Chairman.
SEN. RECTO. Okay, so that is the implication right now. But
nothing alarming?
MR. ESPENILLA. Factually, Mr. Chairman, this development, we
are yet unable to connect this to that situation. What Im saying is,
that situation was already
SEN. RECTO. Evident before.
MR. ESPENILLA. being felt and a situation like this can
conceivably make that even harder, Mr. Chairman.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. So nangyayari na iyan. But as of the
moment, youre telling the Committee wala pang collateral damage,
hindi pa naapektuhan iyong OFW. Hindi sila nahihirapan magpadala,
number one. At number two, hindi pa tumataaas iyong cost sa kanila.
MR. ESPENILLA.
Mr. Chairman, we dont have that evidence
yet because its relatively soon. But that is a concern, Mr. Chairman.
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SEN. RECTO. Okay. So at least, panatag pa muna iyong ating

loob na hindi pa nangyayari, huh?
Okay. Does banking community confirm that? Maybe I can ask
one bank. That cost have not come up?
Maybe PNB.
MS. CORDERO. Sir.
SEN. RECTO. Yes, please.
MS. CORDERO. Good afternoon, Your Honor. Sir, PNB offers the
lowest.
SEN. RECTO. So hindi pa kayo nagtataas?
MS. CORDERO. Sir, hindi po.
SEN. RECTO. So ang galing ng marketing niyo, kayo ang
pinakamura. Thats what youre saying, you offer the lowest.
MS. CORDERO. Sir, PNB has an international brand.
SEN. RECTO. Yes.
MS. CORDERO. We have worldwide offices. And most of our
foreign branches really cater for remittances.
SEN. RECTO. Yes, so pinakamura kayo.
MS. CORDERO. Pinakamura ho kami.
SEN. RECTO. Hindi pa tumataas ang presyo?
MS. CORDERO. Hindi ho, sir.
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SEN. RECTO. Okay, very good.

Any other bank here?
RCBC, has cost come up?
MR. L. TAN. We havent seen any evidence because of this
situation.
SEN. RECTO. Wala pa. So Ill take it from the two of you that
theres no collateral damage yet as far as Filipinos are concerned.
Mr. Chairman, at this juncture, Id like to relinquish my time and
maybe later on--Id like to give opportunity to all the other members
first. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
THE CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Recto.
At this point, before we give it to Senator
MS. ABAD. Mr. Chairman, excuse me.
THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, Ms. Abad.
MS. ABAD. May I just correct my earlier answer when I was
asked by Senator Recto as to how much money has been frozen in
Philrems accounts.
THE CHAIRMAN. Go ahead.
MS. ABAD. I was just given notes that the actual amount that
was frozen in Philrems account is just around 29,302 and not the 21
million.
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SEN. RECTO. Iyon ang tatanungin ko.

THE CHAIRMAN. Twenty-nine thousand, not 21 million?
SEN. RECTO. Yes.
MS. ABAD. Yes.
SEN. RECTO. I did not follow up the question because, you
know, it soundsmedyo malaki naman, 20 million. Pero kung 29,000,
ang pinag-uusapan natin dito $17, $18 million, huh. I mean,
nakakapagtaka naman. Baka mas malaki iyong kay Deguito, mas
malaki iyong kay Kim Wong, iyong mga freneeze (freeze) ninyo.
You know, central player din ang Philrem dito, huh? Lahat ng
pera dumaan sa kanya. If you froze the account of William Go na lahat
dumaan doon and he claims thats not his account, probably otherI
dont know what you did, Kim Wong sa dulo/mhu
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SEN. RECTO.
hindi ba?
Kim Wong sa dulo, iyong gitna, parang wala,
Something like that.
Its a concern that I think all the
members of the Committee are looking at. I am not saying you should
freeze their account. Hindi ko sinasabi iyon. I am just saying that be
attentive here, and I am sure you are, someone has 17, $18 million. I
mean, if its not with Ms. Bautista, and she is claiming that they gave it
already to Mr. Xu and Mr. Wong, then Mr. Wong has the $18 million,
right? But he is saying it is not true.
So, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN. All right. Thank you.
At this point, lets give Maia Deguito-SantosMaam, you want
to make a statement so that well give you time. Okay, please proceed.
MS. DEGUITO. The Honorable Chairman and members of the
Blue Ribbon Committee, good afternoon.
First, I wish to apologize for not being here during the hearing of
March 29, 2016. I had wanted to participate in every hearing not only
to air my side but more importantly to help this Committee in my own
humble way to get to the truth of the matter regarding the money of
the Bangladeshi people. My health, however, has taken a turn for the
worse the past two weeks due to the emotional and mental stresses
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that started since February 9 and which have continued nonstop until
now. But I am now here again presenting myself to you, prepared to
answer any question truthfully to the best of my recollection and within
the extent allowed by my present legal circumstances.
Recently, other resource persons have laid practically all of the
blame on me for the alleged money laundering, as if I had the
resources at my mid-management level to put all the pieces in place
for a crime involving almost 4 billion.
Truly, a crime of this
magnitude could be possible only with the participation of people from

the highest officialdom of the bank in cahoots with extremely wealthy
businessmen whose far-reaching powers and influence span several
countries.
On hindsight, I have unwittingly allowed myself to be set up as
the scapegoat when all I wanted was to advance my career, boost my
performance as a bank manager, and together with my husband, help
provide for my family.
These are legitimate goals of every working
mother.
If there is a conspiracy, as some Honorable Senators have
publicly stated, I have no knowledge of it. If I had made mistakes, it is
this: That I believed and trusted the bank president, Mr. Tan; that I
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followed him when he said I should take care of his friends; that I
relied on the fact that Mr. Tan could not have been unaware of a
transaction that has been labeled the biggest bank heist in the history
of the world.
I am but a pawn in a high stake chess game played by giants in
international banking and high finance. If this Committee is looking for
the grandmaster, it is not me. The line runs much higher and involves
persons with much more clout and authority than a simple bank
manager with modest capabilities she has.
Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Ms. Deguito.
Could you submit to the Committee your statement, please?
Ms. Deguito, Mr. Kim Wong has said that when the accounts
were openedI am talking to the five accounts that were opened kung
saan pumasok iyong 81that they were
Mr. Kim Wong, instead of me narrating, pakiulit lang kung ano
ang nangyari, iyong pagbukas ng account sa Midas.
MR. WONG. Kasi po palagi po niya akong inaanong mag-open
ng account, mag-refer ako mga customer. So kinausap ko po siya. So
sabi ko may ire-refer ako. Pumunta siya sa Midas po, nandoon si Mr.
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Gao, kasama siya, nasa labas iyong mga kaibigan niya, nag-usap po
kami. Bubukas ng dollar account, tapos tatlo po kami, nakatayo siya,
tapos sabi niya, Pag dollar, kailangan corporation, isang corporation,
kailangan isang corporation, kailangan limang tao para mabuo isang
corporation.
So sabi ni Gao, nag-ganun-ganun sila tapos sabi niya,
E, ano ba iyan?
Tapos sabi ni Gao yata, parang account, ganun,
tapos sabi niya, Ako na bahala. Iyong sinasabi niya po sa akin

THE CHAIRMAN. Sino ang nagsabi ng Ako na ang bahala.?
MR. WONG. Sabi po ni Maia po.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.
MR. WONG. Noong nadinig ko sa testimony na may limang tao
raw ipinakilala, tanong niyo po sa kanya kung totoo po o hindi.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Anong nangyari pagkatapos niyan, Mr. Kim
Wong? After nag-usap kayo, umalis na si Ms. Deguito?

MR. WONG.
Hindi, sabi ko, Hindi pa kayo yata kumakain,
kumain kayo muna sa itaas, ako na ang bahala. Doon sa Midas po.
THE CHAIRMAN. So pinakain mo sila sa taas?
MR. WONG. Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN. Tapos anong nangyari?
MR. WONG. Umalis na po ako at tsaka si Gao.
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THE CHAIRMAN. Umalis ka at tsaka si Gao?

MR. WONG.
Opo.
Pero naghiwalay din kami, si Gao, kasi si
Gao may player that time. Kasi may pupuntahan po ako.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.
Ms. Deguito, you wish to respond?
MS. DEGUITO.
Sir, as much as I want to, AMLC has already
filed a case against me. I hope all of you understand, as much as I

want to participate, kaliwat kanan na po ang kaso ko. So limited na
lang po iyong kaya kong sabihin because everything that I may say
might be taken against me.
THE CHAIRMAN. So therefore, are you invoking?
MS. DEGUITO. I am sorry, yes, Your Honor, I am invoking my
right against self-incrimination.
THE CHAIRMAN. All right.
At any rate, it was covered during the executive session.
Well, anyway, at this point, Id like to turn over the floor to
Senator Bam Aquino.
SEN. AQUINO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Iyong line of questioning ko, Mr. Chairman, is about the recovery
of the $81 million.
But before I get to that, I just like to point out
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some inconsistencies. Kasi every hearing, may mga inconsistencies na

lumalabas.
Every time mayroong hindi nagkakatugma na testimony,
ibig sabihin noon, may isang nagsisinungaling. One of them is lying or

both of them are lying at gusto ko lang po itong klaruhin.
So, Ms. Deguito, this is regarding the William Go account. Let
me read to you Mr. Pealosas statement.
So tinanong ko po siya, this is in the middle of the testimony.
Sabi niya, Sir, I am giving those checks to Ms. Maia Deguito, my
branch manager, Your Honor. Sabi ko, So Mr. Go asked you to help
him with rediscounting checks in your personal capacity not as
EastWest branch manager and you made a deal with Maia Deguito to
make it work. Sabi niya, Not a deal, Your Honor.
Sabi ko, I mean, you talked to her and made it work, you
figured it all out with her. Sabi niya, Your Honor, sir, as Ms. Maia is
my branch manager who is taking care of my account, sir, to whatever
check that I have been giving her, she is the one depositing it or
otherwise she will be giving me the account number where to deposit,
Your Honor.
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And then sabi ko, Under oath, you are saying sa pagkakaalam
mo, walang kinalaman si Mr. Go doon sa account na iyon sa RCBC
Jupiter branch? Sabi niya, I am not sure, Your Honor.
So I just like to clarify, sinabi ni Mr. Pealosa in the previous
hearing na wala ka dito, na ibinibigay niya sa iyo iyong tseke na nirerediscount ni William Go, ipinapasok sa Jupiter branch.
So totoo ba iyon o hindi?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, I apologize but Mr. William Go has filed so
many cases against me. And anything about his accountI hope you
understand.
SEN. AQUINO.
No, he already signed a waiver on all of his
accounts. So wala na pong kaso iyan sa bank secrecy.

Thats right, Mr. Go, you signed a waiver of your bank accounts
in Jupiter branch?
MR. W. GO. Non-objection for opening of account, not waiver.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay, earlier sabi niya wala kang alam na
account ni Mr. Go or rediscounting, I think Senator Recto was the one

who asked the question at sabi niyo wala kayong alam.
MS. DEGUITO. On the rediscounting portion po.
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SEN. AQUINO. Okay, itong testimony ni Mr. Pealosa, sabi po

niya na magka-partner kayo doon sa rediscounting kasi sabi nga niya,
and I may quote, Yes, sir, Your Honor, Ms. Maia is my branch
manager who is taking care of my account.
Whatever check that I
have
one
been
giving
to
her,
she
is
the
depositing
it
or
otherwise/jun
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SEN. AQUINO. or otherwise shell be giving me the account

number where to deposit, Your Honor.
Iyon iyong sinabi ni Mr.
Pealosa. Im just asking ito bay totoo o hindi?

MS. DEGUITO. Sir, I strongly deny that.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay.
So, for the record, youre saying
nagsinungaling si Mr. Pealosa doon sa previous hearing natin.

MS. DEGUITO. I am not strictlyI do not understand actually
his statement.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay.
Let me repeat it.
Sabi niya, Your
Honor, Ms. Maia is my branch manager whos taking care of my

account, sir. So, inaalagaan mo daw ang account ni Mr. Pealosa sa
branch mo.
Whatever check that Ive been giving to her, ito iyong tseke ni
Mr. Go na rediscounted, shes the one depositing it or otherwise shell
give me the account number where to deposit, Your Honor.
Hindi po totoo iyan?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, in the first place, hindi po sa akin nabibigay
iyong mga tseke. Its being brought in the branch. I have my senior
customer sales officer here. Probably, she can
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SEN. AQUINO.
Ms. Deguito, Im just asking totoo ba ito o
hindi?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, no.
SEN. AQUINO. So, for the record, youre saying hindi ito totoo.
Mr. Chairman, maybe we can ask Mr. Pealosa to come back
because lahat itong mga inconsistencies, this becomes the subject of
the
committee
report
and
it
becomes
recommendation to AMLC and to the courts.
the
subject
of
the
Kaya, you know, kung
paulit-ulit po iyong mga tanong namin at paiba-iba iyong mga sagot,

ibig sabihin mayroon talagang tinatago.
So, just for the record, you are denying that you are part of the
rediscounting of the checks of Mr. Go?
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, I strongly deny. Yes, if that is what hes
trying to mean.
But, you know, being a bank manager, when you
deposit a check or
SEN. AQUINO.
Ang tinutukoy natin dito iyong kay Mr. Go
because if I can read the whole account, its about Mr. Gos account.
So, youre denying that.
MS. DEGUITO. Yes, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay.
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Yes, Mr. Chairman.

THE CHAIRMAN.
So, Director-General, please cause the
invitation for Mr. Pealosa in the next hearing.

SEN. AQUINO.
Because he was very clear, Mr. Chairman, in
the previous hearing that Ms. Deguito and he were part of the
rediscounting of the checks of Mr. Go. I want to clarify that.
THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, lets have that clarified.
SEN. AQUINO. Thank you.
Ms. Deguito, I just want to ask a few questions regarding the
accounts themselves, iyong ating fictitious accounts. Iyong proseso ng
pagbubukas ng account is because they provide documents, tama po
iyon?
The ones opening the accounts, the depositors, provide
documents, tama po?

MS. DEGUITO. Sir, anything that has to do with the process,
account opening, whatever, that leads toI would just like to invoke
my right against self-incrimination because of the AMLC thing.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Let me ask about in general. If I were
to pen an account, what would I provide to the branch?
MS. DEGUITO. A copy of your ID.
SEN. AQUINO. Anong klaseng ID?
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MS. DEGUITO. A government-issued ID.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, drivers license?
SEN. AQUINO. TIN ID or TIN number.
MS. DEGUITO. Not the TIN ID po. It has to be supported by
another.
SEN. AQUINO. By a?
MS. DEGUITO. Another.
SEN. AQUINO. Another.
MS. DEGUITO. Oo.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, nag-provide ako ng drivers license
sa inyo, you can then open an account.
SEN. AQUINO. We are talking hypothetical so it will not affect
your case. Nag-deposit ako ng pera, P500 kunyari. So, magkano ba
ang opening ninyo sa RCBC for a peso account?
MS. DEGUITO. Depende po.
SEN. AQUINO. Usual?
MS. DEGUITO. Ten thousand pesos.
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SEN. AQUINO.
Okay.
Nag-deposit ng P10,000 in an RCBC
account, nagbigay ako ng ID. After a few months, nalaman mo, lets
say, from your compliance na peke iyong ID. What is your next step?
MS. DEGUITO. We should call the account holder.
SEN. AQUINO.
Or lets say peke nga iyong ID, ano iyong
process ninyo sa RCBC?

MS. DEGUITO.
In the first place, Your Honor, hindi siya
kailangang tumagal para malaman mo na peke iyong ID because in the

process of the account opening, standardly and ideally, kumbagaako
kasi as a marketing officer, I provide business. Hindi ko po trabaho na
mag-check ng validity ng ID.
SEN. AQUINO.
I am not asking if you check it or not.
I am
saying you got word, lets say, from your area head or from the
compliance of the mother office, you received the information that the
IDs are fake, hindi totoo, what would you do?
MS. DEGUITO. I think its for the operation to decide on that.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Let me ask RCBC then. If it is proven
maybe, who will answer, Mr. Tan, ah, no, the other Mr. Tan, Raul Tan.
MR. R. TAN. Yes, Your Honor.
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SEN. AQUINO.
So, Mr. Tan, if you find out that the IDs are
fake, what is the next recourse of the bank?

MR. R. TAN. Actually, Your Honor, when you open an account
with RCBC, you are sent a thank you letter to the address youve
given. And if the letter is returned, its called return to sender, then
the branch manager, the customer service head of the branch and the
SCRO of the branch will be notified via email by our General Services
Department to tell them that these have been returned because
probably the address is wrong or, you know, it was not given to the
right addressee, and they should act on the return, meaning they
should call the supposed-to-be account holder to verify.
SEN. AQUINO.
Lets say hindi ma-contact iyong account
holder.
MR. R. TAN. They should close the account.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. What happens to the money inside the
account?
MR. R. TAN. It is issued a managers check, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. To?
MR. R. TAN. Im sorry.
SEN. AQUINO. Who is the managers check
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MR. R. TAN. It is payable to the account holder, Your Honor.

SEN. AQUINO. It is payable to the account holder even if the
person does not exist?
MR. R. TAN.
Well, at that point, we dont know, Your Honor.
Maybe they have the wrong address.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. For example, you found out that the IDs
are fake.
Hindi totoo iyong ID.
What would be the process of the
bank? Would you close the account also?

MR. R. TAN. Well, at that point, it depends, Your Honor. Yes.
SEN. AQUINO.
Yes, you would close the account.
Closed
accounts, where does the money go if these accounts are closed?

Kaninong pagmamay-ari iyong perang iyon?
MR. R. TAN. Well, after a few years, I understandIm not very
familiarit goes to the national government.
SEN. AQUINO. Maybe we can ask BSP, DG Espenilla. If theres
a closed account at may pera iyon, the money goes back to the
national government?
MR. ESPENILLA. Yes, Mr. Chairman.
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SEN. AQUINO.
Let me ask this question.
If its a closed
account, will it still be subject to the bank secrecy law if its already a
closed account?
MR. ESPENILLA. No, Mr. Chairman, if its a closed account.
SEN. AQUINO. Its not.
MR. ESPENILLA. Its no longer a deposit account.
SEN. AQUINO.
Have these accounts, have these fictitious
accounts been declared closed or are they technically still open?

MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
Well, the accounts have no
more balance, Your Honor.

SEN. AQUINO. So, are they technically closed accounts or are
they still open accounts?
What I understand, Your
Honor, is that they are still open accounts but

SEN. AQUINO.
Attorney, I have here a letter from the LTO.
We wrote the LTO and showed them the fictitious IDs and they have
written back to us and declared that those IDs are indeed fake. So,
this is a government agency.
This is proof already that the drivers
licenses given to four of the accounts are fake. So, I am submitting

this to the committee. Ibibigay ko po ito sa inyo. This is already a
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legal basis for you to close those accounts because they are fictitious
IDs used to open the accounts and with that, I hope that you will now
open up all the records of these accounts because they are declared
they will be declared closed because of the fictitious IDs.
Yes, Your Honor.
Thank you
for the LTO certification. We are ready to comply with the directive of
Senator Pimentel with respect to the four accounts.
SEN. AQUINO. Thank you. So, you are now willing to open up
all the records connected to the fictitious accounts?
the four accounts.
Your Honor, we can speak on
The accounts are real but they are held in the
names of people who may not know that their names were used, but
we are ready to comply with the directive.
William Go accounts.
We can speak on the
We do not have any waiver yet from Philrem.
We sent them a letter last Friday asking for a waiver and we have
again a copy of the request for waiver.
If Philrem will give us their
waiver, we will discuss all the accounts related to

SEN. AQUINO. So, Atty. Macel, youre saying that of all of the
players involved, we can now go into all of the accounts, lahat puwede
nang buksan except iyong sa Philrem lang?
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MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, Mr. Chairman, for the record, this is
a letter from the License Section of LTO declaring that the IDs used to
open the accounts in RCBC of Mr. Michael Cruz, Enrico Vasquez, even
that of William Go and Ralph Picache, that there are no such drivers
licenses actually. So, they are fake. Hindi totoo.
Thank you. . . (nam)
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SEN. AQUINO.
Hindi totoo.
Thank you very much. Thank you to RCBC. Maraming salamat.

Mr. Chairman, let me go now to my questions regarding
recovering the money. Let me ask si Mr. Benny Tan.
Atty. Tan.
MR. S. TAN. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Twenty-nine million pesos went into Solaire, is
that right?
MR. S. TAN. We received P1.365 billion, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Thats right. Cause it was in pesos already, Mr.
Tan?
MR. S. TAN. Thats correct, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Of the one pointlets say, 1.37 billion,
how much have you turned over or can you already turn over to the
AMLC?
MR. S. TAN.
We mentioned that 107 million we have frozen,
Your Honor. We are waiting for a court order to tell us what to do with
them.
SEN. AQUINO. This is for the 107 million?
SEN. AQUINO. What about the rest of the money, Mr. Tan?
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MR. S. TAN. As we explained in our report to Pagcor which we

furnished a copy to the comsec and similar information weve
submitted to AMLC, they were used to purchase non-negotiable chips,
Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Which were then?
MR. S. TAN. Which were then distributed as we have provided
in our report about 903 million to junket operator A and a 100 million
to junket operator B.
SEN. AQUINO. They are here, Atty. Tan? The representatives
are here.
MR. S. TAN. I see one, Your Honor, I think represented by Atty.
Ascuna.
SEN. AQUINO.
Atty. Ascuna, did you take your oath earlier,
Atty. Ascuna?
MR. ESCAO. No, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. May we request
MR. ESCAO. Atty. Eduardo Escao, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Escao, sorry. May we request the committee
to administer the oath?
Are there other representatives of those two junket operators?
Are they here? Nandito po ba sila para sabay na iyong oath?
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MR. S. TAN. The other one is not here, Your Honor.

SEN. AQUINO.
Okay. So, Atty. Escao represents one of the
junket operators.
MR. S. TAN. Yes, thats correct.
SEN. AQUINO. There is another one who is not here, who did
not appear.
SEN. AQUINO. Can we administer the oath, Attorney?
THE CHAIRMAN.
I see someone else approaching. Identify
yourself, please.
Speak into the mike, please.
MR. AGUILAR. Good afternoon, Your Honors. I am Atty. Francis
Aguilar. I am the other representative. I was in the gallery.
SEN. AQUINO.
Of the other junket operator. Okay. So, we
have both.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay, Director General.
MR. QUIMBO.
Kindly raise your right hand. Do you swear or
affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth or nothing but the truth in this
proceeding?
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[The resource persons who took their oath are Atty. Eduardo C.
Escao, Atty. Francis C. Aguilar and Mr. Adrian Yujuico. All responded
in the affirmative.]
MR. QUIMBO. Thank you.
You may take your seats.
SEN. AQUINO. Thank you very much.
Thats Atty. Escao and Atty. Aguilar.
So, we are trying to trace where the money is. So, Atty. Tan said
most of it went to Solaire.
SEN. AQUINO. There are some cash that was recovered.
THE CHAIRMAN. Excuse me, sir.
SEN. AQUINO. Yes, Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN. Just for the record, so its clear. Please state
your names and whom you represent.
MR. ESCAO.
Your Honor, I am Atty. Eduardo Escao,
representing Ms. Chang Lai Fong, one of the junket operators in

Solaire.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.
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MR. AGUILAR. Your Honors, I am Atty. Francis C. Aguilar. I am

the representative of Mr. Cheok Wah Chau, one of the junket
operators.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Thank you.
You may proceed, Senator.
SEN. AQUINO. So, Atty. Tan, if we can just recreate the money
flow. So, mula po saiyong pera ninyo nagmula from Philrem or
nagmula kay Mr. Wong, kay Eastern Hawaii?
MR. S. TAN.
Your Honor, we received the remittancesno, it
was a transfer from Philrems BDO account to Solaires BDO account.

SEN. AQUINO. All right. It was transferred in pesos already.
MR. S. TAN. Thats right.
SEN. AQUINO. So, converted na po siya.
SEN. AQUINO. Around P1.37 billion, tama po?
MR. S. TAN. One point three six five billion pesos, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Magkano po iyong pumasok sa dalawang
junket operator that are represented here?
MR. S. TAN. The junket operator represented by Atty. Aguilar,
Your Honor, the amount of P903.730 million went to them. While for
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the junket operator represented by Atty. Escao, P100 million, Your

Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay. Kung i-add ko iyong tatlong iyan, the
recovered 107, the 903 and the 100 million, kulang pa rin ng mga 200
million.
MR. S. TAN. Three hundred sixty-one was played, Your Honor,
in our premium program.
SEN. AQUINO. And this is still in chips?
MR. S. TAN.
No more, Your Honor. They won 207no, they
were able to withdraw from verifiable winnings 278.6 million, Your

Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. So, youre saying, they had about 600 million
that they withdrew? Kasi iyong winnings is above theso, mayroon
silang 361 na ginamit and they won apart from the 278?
MR. S. TAN. No, thats included, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. So, they lost?
MR. S. TAN.
Thats part of thethey used their play of the
361.27 million po.

SEN. AQUINO. So, to clarify, Attorney, iyong 361 naging 278
or iyong 361 may dagdag na 278?
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MR. S. TAN. No. What they were able to withdraw from using
the play is 278.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay.
MR. S. TAN. So, from us, I think they lost
SEN. AQUINO. Eighty, around 80 million roughly?
MR. S. TAN. Ill have to check exactly, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, 361 minus 278 basically. So, around
80 million.
So, itong 80 million, thats with Solaire na natalo nila, so kinita
ninyo iyan technically?
MR. S. TAN. Yes, Your Honor, subject to the confirmation of the
numbers.
SEN. AQUINO. Itong 278, Atty. Tan, was encashed?
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, thats already in the wild. Nasa ano
na iyankinuha na iyan.
MR. S. TAN. They took it in cash, yes.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay. Sige. So, I have similar questions for
Atty. Escao and Atty. Aguilar.

Atty. Aguilar, P903 million iyong pumasok sa inyo. Can you
confirm?
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MR. AGUILAR.
Your Honor, I actually have a prepared
statement from Mr. Chau who is currently in Macau. He is residing

there.
SEN. AQUINO. Go ahead.
MR. AGUILAR. So, I submitted it to the secretariat a while ago,
Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. You dont have to read the whole point. But is
there anything that is
MR. AGUILAR.
In relation to your question, Your Honor, Mr.
Chau was advised of this investigation on April 2, Your Honor, just a

few days ago. So, upon learning of this investigation, Your Honor, he is
now tallying the accounting between Solaire and his junket operation,
Your Honor. So, as of now, he cannot confirm if he indeed received
903 million.
SEN. AQUINO.
So, Attorney, you are in the process of
confirming kung tama iyong sinasabi ng Solaire?

MR. AGUILAR. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Sige.
Atty. Escao, do you confirm that your junket operator received
P100 million?
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MR. ESCAO.
Your Honor, wed like to confirm first that my
client received the subpoena from the honorable Committee. However,

my client is out of the country. She is in Macau. And she regrets and
apologizes to the Committee for her non-appearance. But she is most
willing to cooperate as in fact, she has given instructions to cull all the
information and data and well be submitting a formal report on
whatever was received and whatever was played in the junket.
SEN. AQUINO. May perang pumasok sa inyo, nilaro. Nalaro na
siya, definitely.
MR. ESCAO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
Pag naglaro ka, mayroong talo, mayroong
panalo. Tama? You cannot confirm right now kung iyong pera intact pa
sa inyo o hindi na?
MR. ESCAO.
Right now, Your Honor, I dont have that
information. But we are already preparing

SEN. AQUINO. So, you will provide that information?
MR. ESCAO.
Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Same with Atty. Aguilar.

MR AGUILAR. Same with us.
SEN. AQUINO. Kasi mas malaki iyong sa iyo, Atty Aguilar, 900
million.
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MR. AGUILAR. Hindi po akin iyon, Your Honor.

SEN. AQUINO. Sa operator mo?
MR. AGUILAR. Opo.
SEN. AQUINO.
By the way, are your operators Filipino
nationals of Chinese nationals?

MR. AGUILAR. The operator is Mr. Chau, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. And may I know their nationality?
MR. AGUILAR. He is from Macau, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. So, is he a Chinese national?
MR. AGUILAR. Chinese, yes.
SEN. AQUINO. Same with Atty. Escao/rommel
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SEN. AQUINO. ...Same with Atty. Escao?

MR. ESCAO. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. So you are finding out kung magkano pa iyong
natitira?
SEN. AQUINO. Natitira, meaning in the accounting-MR. AGUILAR. We will provide an accounting also and submit it
to
SEN. AQUINO.
Just to be clear, kasi hindi ako familiar with
casino operations. Just like what Atty. Tan said, pwedeng nakuha na
in cash?
SEN. AQUINO. Pwedeng nasa account pa ng junket operator?
MR. AGUILAR. Posible po, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Posible?
MR. AGUILAR. Opo.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay.
Let me ask Midas.
Who is the
representative of Midas?
MS. NEPOMUCENO. Yes, Your Honor.
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SEN. AQUINO.
Where are you?
There, Atty. Nepomuceno.
Same question, Atty. Nepomuceno, iyong one billion pesos na

pumasok po sa inyo ano po iyong breakdown at nasaan na ito?
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
Your Honor, I understand after our
verification with our junket operator, Eastern Hawaii, that only

532,139,000 was actually played in the junket room.
And it was
played on February 10 to 29, 2016 and after playing that amount, a

total of 111,050,500 was actually the winnings that was remitted to
the account of the player, the gaming account.
SEN. AQUINO.
Again, hindi ako clear sa mga terminologies.
One hundred eleven million ang winnings, meaning na-withdraw na

ito?
SEN. AQUINO. So may 421 million pa na nasa Midas?
MS. NEPOMUCENO. It was actually played, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Meaning?
MS. NEPOMUCENO. Meaning to say it was the-SEN. AQUINO. Natalo?
SEN. AQUINO. So nasa Midas na siya as your earnings?
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MS. NEPOMUCENO.
Not exactly, Your Honor, because part of
that should have been remitted already as part of commission. There

are certain expenses and I believe that some would already go to the
share of our company as the junket agent and then a portion has
already been remitted to Pagcor.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay.
So in short, 111 unrecoverable na ito
kasi na-cash na ito?

MS. NEPOMUCENO. Yes, Your Honor, that is correct.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay. But within your system, mayroon pang
421?
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
Thats already been transacted, Your
Honor. Meaning to say that has been played already, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
Kaya nga. So it is within your system?
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
If I may say, Your Honor, I believe--
Because, Your Honor, after the total deposit of 532 million was
converted to non-negotiable chips, that was played. So in the course
of the play, that amount has already been...
SEN. AQUINO. Played.
MS. NEPOMUCENO. ...played.
SEN. AQUINO. Mr. Wong.
MR. WONG. Sir.
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SEN. AQUINO.
Iyong pera pong pumasok sa inyo one billion,
532 pumasok sa Midas. Tama po?

MR. WONG. Opo. Opo.
SEN. AQUINO. Iyong 450 willing kayong ibalik?
MR. WONG. Opo.
SEN. AQUINO. In a few weeks?
MR. WONG. Within 15 to 30 days po kasi po iyon ang utang sa
akin po ni Gao.
SEN. AQUINO. Yes.
MR. WONG.
So sinabi nga ng Committee, hindi ba?
So
kinausap ko lang ang anak ko na maduming pera iyon, dapat ibalik po

natin.
Sa kanila po iyon.
SEN. AQUINO. Pakiulit po iyon. Iyong
MR. WONG.
Iyong galing po sa madumi na pera sabi niya sa
akin ng anak ko...

SEN. AQUINO. Dapat-MR. WONG. ...dapat ibalik po.
SEN. AQUINO. Thank you, Mr. Wong.
MR. WONG. Opo.
SEN. AQUINO.
I would like to repeat what Mr Wong said,
Iyong galing sa maduming pera, dapat ibalik.
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Okay. Ito iyong tanong koIn fairness kay Mr. Wong, practically
lahat ng pumasok sa inyo maibabalik mo, tama ba iyon? O lahat ng
pumasok sa iyo na hindi pumasok sa Midas ibabalik mo sa AMLC?
MR. WONG.
Opo, sir. Kasi po, hindi ba, iyong pinatago iyong
4.63 million, hindi ba?

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Binalik mo na.
MR. WONG.
Oo, binalik ko kasi syempre pwede ko namang
itago pero hindi naman tama, hindi ba, hindi po akin iyon.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Thank you.
MR. WONG.
So ito po, sinabi po, ito pong Committee ninyo,
hindi ba? Tsina-challenge po ako ni Senator Angara po, hindi ba, kung
ibabalik iyon.
Para sa akin po, hindi ba, uutang po ako sa mga
kaibigan ko, babayaran ko po, pero bigyan ninyo lang po ako ng

kaunting panahon, 15 to 30 days po.
May dala po
ako... para
ipatunay po, ibabalik ko po.

SEN. AQUINO. Thank you, Mr. Wong.
Ms. Abad, can we recover the monies in the casinos that have
been played already?
MS. ABAD.
That is what we are trying to do, Your Honor. In
fact when we filed a petition for freeze order with the Court of Appeals,
we included a prayer therein for the Bloomberry to freeze any assets
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or any funds being maintained or held by Bloomberry for the benefit of

any of the junket operators, Your Honor. Considering that at the time
that we filed the petition for freeze we didnt have the identities of
those junket operators so that we will just pray to the Court of Appeals
that the Bloomberry be directed to freeze any assets or funds.
SEN. AQUINO.
Iba iyong freeze.
Freeze means hindi na
pwedeng galawin. I am asking about recovery.

MS. ABAD. Well, the freeze order is just a provisional remedy,
Your Honor, while we are-SEN. AQUINO. The ultimate remedy is-MS. ABAD. The ultimate remedy is a petition for civil forfeiture-the forfeiture, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay.
Kapag sinabing civil forfeiture, ibig
sabihin kukunin ulit ng korte iyan.

MS. ABAD. Yes, po.
SEN. AQUINO. At ibabalik sa may-ari.
MS. ABAD. To where the money properly belongs.
SEN. AQUINO. In this case, the people of Bangladesh?
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay.
You will file the case at the Court of
Appeals, tama po iyon?
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MS. ABAD.
The petition for civil forfeiture will be filed before
the Regional Trial Court in Manila, Your Honor.

SEN. AQUINO.
Okay.
Tapos aakyat at aakyat iyan kung
mayroong magtsa-challenge?
SEN. AQUINO. Who will possibly challenge that?
MS. ABAD.
Any party who has
claim to the forfeited money
may file under the rule a verified petition to prove that the money
belongs to him or her, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay.
But technically, Ms. Abad, you are
saying malakas iyong kaso ninyo na ma-recover iyong pera.
In your
estimation as the executive director of AMLC, malakas ba iyong kaso

ninyo na ma-recover iyong pera?
MS. ABAD.
Yes, Your Honor, because we have proof that the
money was actually transferred to their accounts, Your Honor.

SEN. AQUINO. And kahit nagamit na iyon sa casino, pwede pa
ring makuha iyan?
MS. ABAD. Regardless of where the money went, Your Honor,
the same should be recovered.
SEN. AQUINO. Regardless of where the money went?
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SEN. AQUINO.
Pero kung mate-trace pa natin iyan, mayroon
pang money trail iyan, pwede pang ma-recorver iyan at dapat marecover iyan, is that the official stand of the AMLC?
MS. ABAD. That is correct, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
All right. Ito ang tanong ko for Atty. Tan, for
Atty. Nepomuceno, forpuro attorney pala kayoAtty. Aguilar, Atty.

Escao, paaabutin pa ba natin sa court case na kailangan kayong icompel na ibalik iyong maduming pera na nasa inyo or ibabalik ninyo
ba iyan out of good faith dahil ayaw ninyo ng maduming pera sa mga
kompanya ninyo?
If and whenactually it is not if--when the AMLC
files the case, will you contest the case?
Sa tingin ninyo ba iyong
perang pumasok sa inyo dapat inyo na iyon or papayag ba kayo na

ibalik iyong pera sa Bangladesh?
MR. S. TAN. Your Honor, speaking for Solaire, with respect to
the 107 million that we froze, we are prepared to turn that over when
the court orders us.
SEN. AQUINO. Atty. Tan, it is not just about 100 million, it is
about 400 million iyong pumasok sa inyo, tama, hindi ba?
Kasi 900
iyong nasa ibano, about 300 million iyong pumasok sa inyo.

MR. S. TAN. The 361 was played, Your Honor.
I mean, in the
normal course of the gaming business, they were played by the people
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involved.
At the time of the play, we did not know they were dirty
money, Your Honor.

SEN. AQUINO. But now alam mo na.
MR. S. TAN. Yes.
SEN. AQUINO. So you will contest this?
MR. S. TAN. Well, with respect to the winnings of the House, if
the House won when those money were playedwell, I have received
no instruction with respect to that, Your Honor. It is something that I
guess will have to be discussed by management of Solaire.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay.
Atty. Nepomuceno, special case kayo
because you are regulated by a government agency.

SEN. AQUINO.
ninyo ngayon?
Ibabalik ninyo ba iyong perang nasa sistema
I am not asking for the 111 na na-encash na, I am
talking about the money that is within your system right now.
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
Your Honor, for the record, first, we did
not receive directly any amount from the player.
What we received
from our junket sub-agent is actually the share.../smv
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MS. NEPOMUCENO. is actually the share in the gross gaming

revenue in accordance with our junket agreement.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay, not received. Yung pera ba nasa Eastern
Hawaii ba or nasa inyo na?
MS. NEPOMUCENO. Your Honor, what we have received from
them is actually the remittance for the whole month of February. So
as of now, we have not exactly identified if what percentage of that
amount that was given to us because this is the whole transaction for
the whole month of February, and we are not only dealing with one
gaming account or one particular player.
SEN. AQUINO.
So ang sinasabi ninyo, hindi ninyo pa
nagagawa yung assessment ninyo.

SEN. AQUINO. You had the whole week last week. Last week
we asked you this question, sabi ko mag-prepare kayo.
Hindi ninyo
pa rin naa-analyze?
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
We have partlythats why I was able to
give you the particular amount, but what I am saying is, that amount
that was actually received bysupposedly by Eastern Hawaii from
Philrem is only a partial of the whole transaction that PIKI, the junket
agent of Midas, received for the month of February.
So we have to
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look at the whole transaction because we are not a direct recipient of

that amount and
SEN. AQUINO. Sorry, Attorney, to cut you. Hindi kayo direct
recipient pero pumasok sa inyo iyon. Nalaro sa inyo yun, hindi ba?
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
Yes, Your Honor, but we have to verify.
We have to verify that again.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay.
MS. NEPOMUCENO. And again, if I may continue?
Part of that
amount that we received also was remitted to Pagcor. There is also a

consideration that we pay to Pagcor based on our junket agreement.
SEN. AQUINO. I get that.
And in fact, what we are trying to
do is recover all of the amount, whether its with Pagcor, whether its
in your casinos, you know, kung nandiyan pa yan, dapat ibalik natin
iyan sa Bangladesh.
Now let me go to our two attorneys. Kayo po, sinabi ninyo
cooperate. What level of cooperation are we talking about?
If it is
indeedif there is a court case for civil forfeiture, meaning kinukuha

na po yung perang iyan dahil mula iyansabi nga ni Mr. Wong,
maduming pera iyan.
Are you willing to return the money, huwag
ninyong i-contest yung kaso at ibalik ninyo yung pera.

Atty. Aguilar.
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MR. AGUILAR.
Your Honor, yung tanong po kasi, palagay po
namin is may dalawang aspects, may moral at may legal.

SEN. AQUINO.
MR. AGUILAR.
Yes.
Siyempre sa pagpapaliwanag ko sa aking
kliyente, ipapaliwanag ko yung both sides.
But, of course, its up to
him to decide eventually kung ano ang kailangan niyang gawin.

SEN. AQUINO.
Okay.
Atty. Escao, are you giving me the
same answer as Atty. Aguilar?

MR. ESCAO. Well, Your Honor, it is our obligation as lawyers to
explain to our clients the different dimensions of the case. But we will
have to confer with the client and explain that there are these options,
whether to contest or not. And, of course, there will have to be a
determination as to who really owns the funds, thats why there are
forfeiture proceedings on the matter. But we will do our best to advise
the client and from there proceed how best to assist all the parties.
SEN. AQUINO. Atty. Abad, when will you file the case finally?
And will you also file for civil forfeiture proceedings? Kasama po ba yun
sa kaso na kunin ulit yung pera para maibalik na po natin sa
Bangladesh?
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MS. ABAD.
Your Honor, we are already preparing our pleadings
to be filed in court.
And hopefully by next week we will be able to file
it with the proper court, Your Honor.

SEN. AQUINO.
So right away you will find out if these
institutions, kung iko-contest nila yung civil forfeiture ninyo, right away
malalaman ninyo.
Because once you file, the other party can easily
say, Ibabalik po namin yung perang iyan dahil madumi po iyan.

They can do that, right?
MS. ABAD. They can do that, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay. In fact, they dont even need to wait for
a court order, tama?

MS. ABAD.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay. Lets say we give them the benefit of
the doubt, some of them are listed companies, they will wait for a
court order. Ang tanong, iko-contest ba nila yung pera o hindi?
Tama? Will they contest your case? They can contest your case, tama.
MS. ABAD. Yes, they can contest them.
SEN. AQUINO.
But, of course, what AMLC would want and
speaking for our office and probably other senators, what we would
want is yung mga institution na kung nasaan yung maduming pera, as
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soon as you file a case, huwag na nilang i-contest at ibalik na kaagad

nila yung pera.
Would you agree that that would be a good course of action?
MS. ABAD. That would be most ideal, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So in the next hearing, after you file your
case, Atty. Abad, we will be following up with all of the institutions,
tatanungin natin kung kino-contest ba nila yung pera o hindi.
And if I can ask Mr. Manalastas as the representative of
government here, and I am sure you probablycan you answer it right
now? Let me ask you, will you also contest the money that is now with
Pagcor?
MR. MANALASTAS. Well, we would need a court order to
compel us.
SEN. AQUINO.
hindi ba?
Ang tanong kasi diyan, they will file a case,
So you can contest it or you can agree. Once you agree,
the court will then make a ruling. Kasi ang tanong po, iko-contest ba
ninyo na inyo dapat yung perang iyan? So my question is, will Pagcor
contest it?
They will be filing within a week or two.
MR. MANALASTAS.
Pesident.
Pagcor is directly under the Office of the
And if it couldif the President would instruct us, order us
to do so, then we will.
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SEN. AQUINO.
All right.
Very good.
Thank you, sir.
So at
least si Pagcor may clear instructions na. Yung iba? I hope in the next
hearing we can tackle this.
Mr. Wong, in fairness to you, you are taking the lead in returning
all of the money.
Humihingi ka lang ng dalawang lingo o isang buwan
para makuha mo yung pera. Tama, hindi ba?

MR. WONG.
Isang buwan naman po.
SEN. AQUINO.
P450 million.
Isang buwan. Medyo malalaking pera rin iyan,
But I hope the other institutions will also follow the lead
of the AMLC and return the money.
Nandito po sa harap natn ang
ambassador ng Bangladesh and the rest of the our colleagues from

Bangkadesh and they would want to see us cooperate to the fullest
extent. Hindi po iyong cooperate na in words lang. Full cooperation
means lahat ng pera na madumi na nasa atin, ibalik na natin at the
soonest possible time.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Salamat.
Thank you, Senator Bam, and I laud your
zeal in pursuing and returningmaking sure that all the monies, all the
money involved is returned to the government of Bangladesh.
Senator Osmea.
SEN. OSMEA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Pagcor,
who
will
speak
for
Pagcor,
Mr.
Manalastas?
Mr.
Manalastas, does Pagcor only accept pesos for conversion into chips or
do you also accept other denominations?
MR. MANALASTAS.
Our casinos, Pagcor-operated casinos,
deal with both peso and dollar.

SEN. OSMEA.
So you have dollar chips?
MR. MANALASTAS.
SEN. OSMEA.
Yes, sir.
So therefore, what would be the reason why so
much of this was exchanged into pesos? Kung kaya naman ng dollars,
di wala ka nang lugi sa transaction cost of foreign exchange, hindi ba?
MR. MANALASTAS.
I can only provide a guess as to why the
junket operators would convert it.
I would assume that it has
something to do with the exchange rate.

SEN. OSMEA.
No, thats not an answer.
What are you
talking about?
MR. MANALASTAS.
I mean, as far as the casino which we
operate, we accept both dollar and peso

SEN. OSMEA.
Okay, Ill ask this question on Mr. Kim Wong.
Mr. Kim Wong, bakit pa kailangan i-exchange ang dollars for pesos?
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MR. WONG. Kasi po operation po ng Pagcor yung sarili po nila.

Mayroon ho silang peso at saka US dollars.
Sa amin, casinos, sa
Salaire, sa lahat ng casino, wala pong US dollars po.

SEN. OSMEA. Walang US dollars.
MR. WONG.
Wala po, wala po.
Sila lang po ang mayroon,
owned, run by Pagcor. Sila lang po ang may peso at saka US dollars.
SEN. OSMEA.
So lahat itong mga privately owned casinos not
operated by Pagcor are required to only use pesos as the

MR. WONG. Pesos and Hong Kong dollars.
SEN. OSMEA. Hong Kong dollars.
MR. WONG. Opo.
We have two kinds of chips. One is peso,
one is Hong Kong.

SEN. OSMEA. Bakit walang US dollars?
MR. WONG. Sila lang po ang mayroong US. Itanong ninyo po
sa kanila.
SEN. OSMEA. Would you like to explain that, Mr. Manalastas?
MR. MANALASTAS.
SEN. OSMEA.
Can you repeat the question, Your Honor?
The question is, why does Pagcor cts
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SEN. OSMEA.
subrule?
why does Pagcor have two rules and a
Why only Pagcor casinos will be able to exchange cash for
dollar denominated chips but the other casinos not owned by Pagcor or
operated by Pagcor can only use pesos and Hong Kong dollars?
MR. MANALASTAS. It depends on their request, sir. Like, for
example, Solaire, they have dollar chips.
SEN. OSMEA. No, no. I have a very specific question.
So Solaire has dollar chips?
MR. WONG. Ang alam ko, wala po. US dollars? No.
MR. S. TAN. Your Honor
SEN. OSMEA. Who is the Solaireyes.
MR. S. TAN. Your Honor, in Solaire, we only have Hong Kong
dollar tables and peso table. So no US dollars, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. All right. Would you like to explain why?
MR. S. TAN. Thats the preference of the players, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. The preference of the players is to gamble in
Hong Kong dollars rather than in US dollar.
SEN. OSMEA. And you dont know why.
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SEN. OSMEA. Mr. Kim.

MR. WONG.
Hindi po, sir.
Iyon po iyong request ng mga
junket. Like mayroon ho kaming junket rooms, we request na gusto

namin po peso saka Hong Kong dollar lang.
Kunwari, lets say, 10
tables po
SEN. OSMEA. Bakit kaya ganoon?
MR. WONG. Kasi para wala na hong palitan.
SEN. OSMEA.
Iyon na nga.
May cost ang palitan, di ba?
Pumasok ito rito US dollars, di ba?

MR. WONG. Opo.
SEN. OSMEA.
Eighty-one million US dollars was remitted
through RCBC and Philrem, di ba?

MR. WONG.
Pero ito kasi po iyong kung ano iyong gusto ng
player. Parang two choices poone is Hong Kong, one is peso.

SEN. OSMEA. Bakit magugustuhan ng player ang pesos kung
taga-China sila?
MR. WONG. Hindi ko po alam. Iyon ang palagi po.
SEN. OSMEA.
So walang choice ang customer.
Pag
mayroong pumasok o dumating sa Solaire at he wants to gamble in

dollars, he is not allowed to do so.
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MR. WONG. Opo, wala pong US dollar. Hong Kong dollars

mayroon po.
SEN. OSMEA. Okay. All right.
Ms. Abad, the freeze order that was obtained by the Anti-Money
Laundering Council from the Court of Appeals, ano hong accounts ang
kinover (cover) niyan? Which accounts ofPhilrem lang?
MS. ABAD.
Your Honor, we have two freeze orders obtained
from the Court of Appeals. First was obtained on March 1 and this
covers the accounts of, first, the four account holders and then the
account of Eastern Hawaii Leisure, and then also the account of Mr.
Kim Wong.
SEN. OSMEA. Where is the account of Mr. Kim Wong? Akala
ko iyong account niya Eastern Hawaii.
MS. ABAD.
No.
Mr. Kim Wong has separate accounts in his
name, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMEA. At pina-freeze mo lahat iyon?
MS. ABAD.
Yes, Your Honor. These are also
SEN. OSMEA.
Magkano ang naiwan doon sa mga accounts
naiyong frineeze (freeze).
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MR. WONG. May five millionAng frineeze (freeze) ho sa akin

maraming account, even not connected. I think one companyeight
to 10. Hindi na ho ako makapagnegosyo nga.
SEN. OSMEA. Okay. Thats not my question.
MR. WONG. Opo, opo.
SEN. OSMEA. What were the total amounts in those?
MR. WONG. Lahat-lahat po, P138 million.
SEN. OSMEA.
Hundred thirty-eight million.
All right.
What else were frozen, Ms. Abad?

MS. ABAD.
And then the second freeze order, Your Honor,
covers the account of Bloomberry.

SEN. OSMEA. So you never froze any Philrem account? Bakit
nag-complain si Mrs. Bautista na klinose (close) ninyo iyong account?
It was RCBC that voluntarily closed their account.
MS. ABAD.
The accounts of Philrem were frozen as related
accounts, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMEA.
Pinapaklaro ko sa yo which accounts were
frozen that belong to Philrem because ang minention (mention) po

ninyo iyong apat na accounts. But those dont belong to Philrem.
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MS. ABAD.
Two accounts of Philrem with RCBC were frozen,
Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. Can you name the branches?
MS. ABAD. This is with RCBC Greenhills, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. Okay. Dalawang accounts, both were with the
Greenhills branch of RCBC.
SEN. OSMEA. And how much was in the account?
MS. ABAD. The first account has around P6,858, Your Honor.
And the secondSorry, Your Honor.
The first account has just P54.95 and the second account has
SEN. OSMEA. Fifty-four pesos?
MS. ABAD.
Yes, Your Honor.
And the second account has
around P29,000, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMEA. So you didnt freeze anything really.
MS. ABAD. Practically, nothing, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. Mabilis sila, faster than lightning.
No, because
definitely in their business, they probably keep a couple of hundred

million pesos in their bank accounts, no, even more.
Mr. Baustista, would you like to respond to that?
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MR. BAUTISTA.
Sir, actually, we werent part of the freeze
order. Our accounts were actually first closed by the bank. And then
when they received the freeze order, they froze the closed account.
That was the complaint she mentioned in the first hearing.
SEN. OSMEA. Im saying that when they froze the account,
when the AMLC ordered to freeze your account, you only had P29,000
and change left in those accounts.
So those are your real working
accounts.
MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, AMLC did not issue a freeze order on our
accounts. RCBC froze our accounts.
SEN. OSMEA. RCBC
MR. BAUTISTA. After closing the account. They closed it first.
SEN. OSMEA. You close it first and then you freeze it.
MR. BAUTISTA. They closed it first and then they froze it after.
SEN. OSMEA.
Whats the difference?
If they closed an
account, theyre supposed to refund whatever balance you have in the

account, di ba?
MR. BAUTISTA.
Yes. So the first letter we got in the morning,
sir, stated
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SEN. OSMEA. How much was in the account when they closed
the account?
MR. BAUTISTA. Actually, sir, thats another problem we have
with
SEN. OSMEA. Never mind. How much was in the account?
MR. BAUTISTA.
Because, sir, that was a working account so
deposits would come in throughout the day. We actually dont know

how much was closed and frozen.
SEN. OSMEA. Okay. Would you like to give the Committee a
low and a high estimate?
All right.
Do you mind if I ask RCBC how much was in the
account? RCBC?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Your Honor, if they give me a
written waiver of their accounts, Ill discuss everything, all the
questions.
SEN. OSMEA.
You can write on a napkin.
You write on a
napkin
I actually have the form, Your
Honor. I can give it to them.

SEN. OSMEA. Okay, all right.
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MS. BAUTISTA. No. Actually, I really dont know because its

SEN. OSMEA. Are you willing to?
MS. BAUTISTA.
No, Your Honor.
Im so sorry.
SEN. OSMEA. Youre not willing. All right.

MS. BAUTISTA.
to open my account. Im so sorry. No, no.
SEN. OSMEA. Okay.

MS.
FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
Weve
submitted
the
documents and the information to AMLC, Your Honor. I believe they

gave an earlier number of 21 million and a second number of 29,000.
SEN. OSMEA.
Im wondering because I havent heard a 21
million today.
number.
Atty. Abad said that, the first
That was the first number.
SEN. OSMEA. Twenty-one million?

MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Yes.
MS. ABAD.
Your Honor, I already corrected my answer.
At
first, I said that we were able to freeze around 21 million as far as

Philrems accounts are concerned.
However, I corrected that.
It
turned out that its only 29,000, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMEA. How could you make a mistake?
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MS. ABAD. Your Honor, Im sorry. Im just basing on the notes

that I have.
I dont have all the figures on my fingertip. So I was
referring to my notes and I was just given the correct note, Your
Honor.
SEN. OSMEA.
All right. Ms. Abad, how many anti-money
laundering cases have you filed in the last three years?

MS. ABAD.
Are you referring to criminal cases, Your Honor?
Because we have filed civil cases and criminal cases.

SEN. OSMEA.
How many civil cases, how many criminal
cases?
MS. ABAD. For civil cases, we have filed around a hundred
cases.
SEN. OSMEA. And for criminal?
MS. ABAD. Your Honor, as to criminal cases/jbc
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MS. ABAD.
Your Honor, as to criminal cases, we have filed
around 10 criminal cases before the Department of Justice. And these

are still pending resolution by DOJ.
SEN. OSMEA.
MS. ABAD.
So these are what, fairly recent?
For the past three years--
SEN. OSMEA. How long does it take the DOJ to investigate,

make a determination, if there is a basis, and recommend the filing?
MS. ABAD. The truth, Your Honor, is there are cases that we
have filed with the DOJ which have been pending for more than five
years, Your Honor. And some are even pending for eight to 10 years,
Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA.
All right. Let me ask Ms. Deguito. Ms. Deguito,
how long have you known the officers of Philrem or how long have you
been dealing with Philrem, how many years?
MS. DEGUITO.
Your Honor, I met them when I was still a teller
in the bank, that was 15, 16 years ago. But have started dealing with
them I think for the last 10 years.
SEN. OSMEA. Okay. Is Philrem the only remittance company
you use?
MS. DEGUITO.
Sir, there are some others.
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SEN. OSMEA.
All right. How many percent of your total
transactions would go to Philrem?

MS. DEGUITO. Sir, that depends on the instructions of the
client.
SEN. OSMEA.
I see. So its the client that requests?
MS. DEGUITO.
Yes. Its actually the client who is instructing
to transact with Philrem.

SEN. OSMEA.
All right. So in this particular case, you were
supposed to have five clients, di ba?

MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. OSMEA.
Yes, Your Honor.

So those clients were the ones who instructed
you to deal with Philrem--all five?

MS. DEGUITO.
I was actually asked by Mr. Wong to source
PhilremI just recommended Philrem to them.

SEN. OSMEA.
To use Philrem exclusively?
MS. DEGUITO.
Opo, because he knows Concon, just that.
SEN. OSMEA.
of the account.
All right. But Mr. Kim Wong is not the owner
You had these five who owned the account so how
could you have taken instructions or received instructions or accepted

instructions from Mr. Kim Wong when he did not own the account?
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MS. DEGUITO.
Sir, I have already discussed in the executive
session, it was him whom I really talked to.

SEN. OSMEA.
Oo nga pero legally hindi siya ho ang may-ari
ng account. Sinabi ni Mr. Kim Wong na--okay, he may have asked you
to open accounts but in the name of--sino iyon?
Si Gao at si Ding,
hindi ba? Dalawa lang iyon.

MR. WONG.
Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA.
So you opened five. So its pretty obvious that
Mr. Kim Wong did not own the accounts yet you were receiving
instructions from him on how to dispose of the monies that go through
those accounts, parang siya ang may-ari noon?
MS. DEGUITO.
Not naman po like that, Your Honor. Its just
that from the start po kasi it was him who referred to me those people
so its him being-SEN. OSMEA.
So if I refer somebody to you to open an
account, you will be taking orders from me on how to deal with the
monies in that account, ganoon ba iyon?
MS. DEGUITO.
I understand, Your Honor, that that is not the
usual but it is commonly given for some valued--
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SEN. OSMEA.
What? Will you repeat that statement, I didnt
quite understand.
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, I understand what you are saying.
It is not
common, I acknowledge that. But nonetheless for somebodyfriends-SEN. OSMEA.
You did?
MS. DEGUITO.
Yes. I did it for him.
SEN. OSMEA. If you are still in banking, I will be your friend

later. All right.
Now, there was an amountremember that night
when the P20 million in cashthe controversial P20 million was

loadedin whose car was it loaded, in your car?
MS. DEGUITO.
Your Honor, I answered that already this
morning. I did not bring any money to Solaire.

SEN. OSMEA.
Okay. But, anyway, there was another amount
that was testified to in earlier hearings that there was also 200 million
that was supposed to be-MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. OSMEA.
I do not know about the 200 million.

Okay.
Now, normally, in the course of
business, Ms. Deguito, how much dollars, cash will you keep in your
branch?
Just for everyday purposes, buying ang selling, how much?
MS. DEGUITO.
Cash in vault, sir, is just $10,000.
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SEN. OSMEA.
And in this case, there was $81 million. And
out of the 81, per our records, per their testimonies at least $17
million was cash, hindi ba?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, Your Honor, there were no actual cash
withdrawals.
SEN. OSMEA.
Okay.
MS. DEGUITO.
These were actually fund transfers in the form
of deposit and withdrawal slips.

SEN. OSMEA.
So if Philremand Ill address this question to
Philrem, how long will it take you to accumulate $18 million in cash?
Can you do it in one day?
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. OSMEA.
No, Your Honor.

How many days would it take you to encash an
$18 million?
MS. BAUTISTA.
One week.
SEN. OSMEA.
One week. So therefore there is not that much
cash running aroundUS dollars running around, cash?

MS. BAUTISTA.
Im sorry, I thought you were talking about
the transaction. Are you saying for the dailyfor the day?
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SEN. OSMEA.
Halimbawa, I gave you aI had my bank remit
to you $18 million in cash and I say, Mrs. Bautista, give to me the
$18 million by telegraph transfer and I request to you, Mrs. Bautista,
bigyan mo akong dollarscash, how long will it take you to
accumulate $18 million?
MS. BAUTISTA.
Maybe two days.
SEN. OSMEA.
Two days, okay. How long would it take you
to sell $66 million converted into pesos using normal transactions?

MS. BAUTISTA.
If it were just a conversion, sir, and we would
do it with the treasury of the bank, it would probably take one

transaction.
SEN. OSMEA.
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. OSMEA.
MS. BAUTISTA.
One day?
Yes.
Basta telegraphic transfer lang?
Basta ho fund transfer and clear funds iyong
aming balance sa account.

SEN. OSMEA.
Corporation?
Okay.
Who is Philippine Golden Realty
This was a name that you gave to the Committee.
MS. BAUTISTA.
Your Honor, Im so sorry but we did not give
any names as part of our accounts.
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SEN. OSMEA. Okay, I stand corrected.
But you do not know
who the principals are of Golden Realty Corporation? Do you--dont

you know?
MS. BAUTISTA.
I do know, Your Honor, but I dont want to
say the owner, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMEA.
All right. Now, let me ask a question both of
Ms. Deguito and Mr. Lorenzo Tan. When an amount like $81 million is
transmitted to your bank, dont you normally receive forwarding
instructions from the remitter or from the beneficiary that they wanted
this exchanged for pesos. How long will it take you to accumulate the
pesos involved? In this case about 3.7 billion, for example.
MR. L. TAN.
I wouldnt know the answer.
May I pass on to Raul Tan, sir?

SEN. OSMEA.
MR. R. TAN.
We can do it in a day, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA.
MR. R. TAN.
You can do it in a day?
Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA.
MR. R. TAN.
Mr. Tan, please.
One day. If it were $850 million?
Its going to be/rjo
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MR. R. TAN. Its going to be almost impossible, Your Honor,

at that point.
SEN. OSMEA. It will be impossible, you mean?
MR. R. TAN. I mean its really going to be difficult to do that.
SEN. OSMEA. Why? It wouldnt take 10 days? Its only 10
times more. Well, if you can do $81 million in one day
MR. R. TAN. We will probably not do that, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. You will reject it?
MR. R. TAN. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. Why would you reject it?
MR. R. TAN. Because it is abnormally huge, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA.
So if $850 million had arrived the next day,
senior executives of the bank would have been alerted right away?
MR. R. TAN. Most likely, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. And you would have rejected it?
MR. R. TAN. Well, we would have probably asked the remitter
for
SEN. OSMEA. To?
MR. R. TAN. To verify what this is all about.
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SEN. OSMEA. Yeah, thats what I was trying to ask in the past
three hearings. At what point do your alarm bell start ringing in your
bank? $81 million walang kakuwenta-kuwenta iyan even if the amount
was going to for, and we can admit now, fictitious accounts which were
not active in the first place, and there was no underlying obligation,
services or trade contract subject of the money. But you say that that
$850 million you would have rejected. You would have at least called
the remitter, in this case Bangladesh Bank, and asked them to verify if
this amount were really coming from them and to what purpose, di
ba? Ganoon talaga.
MR. R. TAN. Most likely, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. All right.
So were looking for an amount now between 850 or 950
actually, all in all, and $81 million.
warning?
What would have been your
At what point would your managers have told you, Boss,
you got to take a look at this, masyadong malaki?

MR. R. TAN. Well, Im really sorry, Your Honor, but the point of
entry is actually not in my area. That would have been in a different
area of the bank.
SEN. OSMEA. So youre saying that you wouldnt know?
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MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. If I may answer, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMEA. Are you an operations officer of the bank?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. No, but sir, I was going to say
our operations head is here; he can give you the exact answer.
SEN. OSMEA. Okay, who is your operations head?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Dennis Bancod, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. Mr. Bancod.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Yes. He is our operations head.
I was going to ask if he could explain.
SEN. OSMEA.
May the Committee recognize and invite Mr.
Bancod, Mr. Chairman, and may we ask him to take his oath if he has
not already taken his oath.
THE CHAIRMAN. Please, for the record, state your name and
your position at RCBC.
SEN. OSMEA.
And request the Committee Secretary to
administer the oath.

THE CHAIRMAN. Yes.
MR. BANCOD. Your Honor, I am Dennis Bancod, and I am the
head of IT and Operations in RCBC.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. ComSec, please.
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MR. QUIMBO. Please raise your right hand.

Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and
nothing but the truth in this proceeding?
MR. BANCOD. I do.
THE COMMITTEE SECRETARY. Please sit down.
SEN. OSMEA.
Mr. Bancod, did you hear the question I
propounded? Would you like to respond to it?

MR. BANCOD. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. Yeah.
MR. BANCOD.
That 81 million would have been most likely
alarmed us already and we would have put the transaction on hold.

SEN. OSMEA. It what? It would most likely have alarmed you
already?
MR. BANCOD. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. All right. Why did it not alarm you? Because
you do not know about it, thats what youre saying?
MR. BANCOD.
In this case, Your Honor, the 81 million taken
collectively of the four transactions were put on hold, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMEA. The 81 million was put on hold?
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MR. BANCOD. Yes, sir. Thats what happened in this particular

case.
SEN. OSMEA. But the 81 million went to William Go account.
MR. BANCOD. At that time, Your Honor, I believe there were
some of the amounts that were already withdrawn. It was done at the
end of day review, and we referred that to the branch as per procedure
and we waited for disposition. And part of that disposition process, we
were asked to put all the amounts that were still available on hold,
Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. More or less
MR. BANCOD. I stand corrected, it was not 81 million because
some of the amounts have been withdrawn, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA.
All that remained was 69,000, am I correct?
More or less.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Your Honor, at the end of day
of February 5, it was only $22.7 million that had been withdrawn. So
81 less 22, 23, was about 58 or 59 million.
SEN. OSMEA.
You didnt freeze 59 million, it still went to
Philrem.
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MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. We put it on hold at the end of

February 5, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. So why was it given to Philrem on February 9?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Your Honor, may I backtrack so
that I can just answer the first question that you asked?
SEN. OSMEA. Yes.
At the start of the day when
the remittances come in, there is a threshold that weve said before.
And because weve opened up four accounts, well discuss it.
The threshold was P1 billion.
If it hits an amount above that,
and in this case two accounts breached that threshold, there are
human eyes that see it. But in this case, since the branch have had
several transactions already big, it was not so unusual at that point. If
it were one amount, for example $81 million that entered, human eyes
would have seen it and it would have triggered an alert. Since there
was no alert at the start, at the end of day our remittance department
called the retail banking group which is where the branches are, and
they asked what these amounts were because taken together, they
seemed unusually large.
So by that time, $22.7 million had already
been withdrawn. At that point, a series of calls were made and Maia
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Deguito took the call and said, These are my long standing clients. I
have been waiting for these funds for over a year, and their KYC, their
documents for account opening forms were all set. All arranged.
There was series of approvals and the hold was lifted on the
basis of that on February 5.
On February 9 is a different matter, and thats when the first of
the requests for freeze came.
But thats a different matter, Your
Honor.
SEN. OSMEA.
Yes, but at least you voluntarily put a hold
order
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Yes, we did.
SEN. OSMEA. on the account on Friday.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. We did, Your Honor. It was
SEN. OSMEA. And you released it on Tuesday, the following
working day?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. We released it in the evening of
February 5 because
SEN. OSMEA. Ah, in the same day.
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SEN. OSMEA.
Okay.
And so the rest of the amounts were
remitted also on February 9 out of your Jupiter Branch to Philrem or

toanyway, to the William Go account?
The withdrawal started again
on Tuesday morning, February 9, yes.

Now, I saw this ad in the Philippine Star yesterday.
Did you
have anything to do with this ad?

Your Honor, we caused the
publication. As part of our desire to discuss the accounts, we wanted

to make sure that we conformed with the spirit of bank secrecy laws,
and we wanted to make sure that there were no other claimants.
There is one single claimant so far which is the Bank of
Bangladesh, and we have actually sent them a written request for a
waiver since we believe that they are the owner of the funds, and we
hope to be able to get the waiver over the next few days, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA.
All right.
The ambassador is here, and I
believe, Mr. Ambassador, would you like to respond? Is this correct?

Have you received a letter from RCBC?
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It was addressed to the ambassador or to the Bank of

Bangladesh?
MS.
FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO.
We
sent
it
through
the
ambassador, Your Honor.

Did you receive such a letter?
MR. GOMES. Yes, Your Honor, we received it.
SEN. OSMEA. And there was also an accompanying draft of a
letter that RCBC was suggesting would be signed by the current
governor or acting governor of the Bank of Bangladesh allowing RCBC
to disclose what is in the account?
MR. GOMES. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. Mr. Fazle Kabir, is he the new governor?
MR. GOMES. Yes, Your Honor, he is the new governor.
Now, in our previous hearing, Atty. Estavillo, there was a
debate/cbg
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SEN. OSMEA.
...there was a debate as to whether these
accounts were fake or not and RCBC took a very strong position that
they had to respect the Bank Secrecy Law and the possibility that
these were not fake accounts.
SEN. OSMEA.
What made you change your mind?
Your Honor, the accounts are
real.
SEN. OSMEA.
No, not the account, the account holders.
The account holders, the
names were fictitious but while we had already an internal certification

that their addresses were wrong, the birthdates did not correspond to
the real names.
We were also hoping to get a certification from
different government agencies which we dont have at this point

stating that these people with these details do not exist.
So, we
wanted to rule out any possible claimants and that is why we caused
the advertising that you saw in the two newspapers over two days.
We wanted to rule out all these possible claimants.
SEN. OSMEA.
All right. Now, how many names were--there
were five names actually.
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There were five names, Your
Honor.
SEN. OSMEA.
There were five accounts including Picache.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Picache, yes.

SEN. OSMEA.
All right. Now, I would like to know supposing
a Mr. Lagrosas turns up, same name and say, Thats me. What are
you going to do now?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Yes. Well, we would probably
submit him to the AMLC so they could send him--so that they could
hold him accountable for the money laundering case that they filed.
Yes.
SEN. OSMEA.
All right. So, in this particular case, when
you say the account beneficiaries do not exist, there could be

somebody with that name but all the supporting information that was
given to support the opening of the account were false--wrong
address, wrong ID, etcetera, ano?
SEN. OSMEA.
Pero there could be a possibility that a person
of that name exists?
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What we understand, Your
Honor, is that these four names do exist.
There are different
birthdates of the real people. We looked at the IDs submitted. Weve

identified two out of the four IDs used--out of the five.
three we have not identified.
The other
So, we have been submitting our
records, Your Honor, to the AMLC because we do want to assist.

SEN. OSMEA.
All right. Ms. Deguito, sabi po ninyo nakilala
mo itong limang tao na ito, si Picache, Lagrosas, Vasquez, etcetera.

SEN. OSMEA.
So, you still maintain that you did meet them
and that they exist?

SEN. OSMEA.
All right. Thank you.
I wont ask you anymore questions because I know you are

going to use your exemption from testifying against yourself.
Now, Ms. Fernandez, in the letter that you drafted for the
governor of the central bank of Bangladesh you used the word
diverted, which means youve already come to a judgment that these
funds were illegally remitted.
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SEN. OSMEA.
This was a letter you are asking Bangladesh
Bank to sign?
SEN. OSMEA. We confirm and reiterate that the Bangladesh
Bank is claiming ownership over the funds diverted to the following
beneficiary accounts. And there is the...
Yes.
We put there that they
are claiming. So, it is really like alleged in that sense, Your Honor. Its
the claim.
SEN. OSMEA.
And you use diverted again a second time in
the second paragraph, as owner of the funds that had been diverted.
And a third time in the last sentence, the Blue Ribbon Committees
investigation into the funds diverted from the Bangladesh Bank.
So, this letter is just a formality. You have already decided to
accept that these are the funds that belong to the people of
Bangladesh.
We have reasonable basis to
believe, Your Honor, that it is the funds of the Bank of Bangladesh.

The letter you read, Your Honor, is to be signed, we hope, by the
governor of the Bangladesh Bank, we hope.
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SEN.
OSMEA.
Anyway,
youve
been
assured
by
the
ambassador that that letter would be forthcoming subject to whatever

amendments they would want to include into it.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Thank you.
SEN. OSMEA.
I also read a column, I think it appeared either
in the Inquirer or in the Star yesterday with a chart.
Was this
prepared by your bank?

I believe, sir, our external
lawyers are preparing some complaints. To be honest, I havent seen

the final draft but I commit-SEN. OSMEA.
It came out of the newspapers already.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. I dont know why, Your Honor,

but I commit to give you a copy of the complaint once filed.
SEN. OSMEA.
Yes, but wed like you to affirm that this is
your interpretation of the funds flow.

Your Honor, may I see the
chart?
SEN. OSMEA.
Certainly.
Ill give you two charts, the one
that--two versions because I had my staff--it was so blurry--I had my

staff recreate it.
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Your Honor, I am not familiar
with the specific chart. I am very familiar with the flow. I can discuss
the flow but to refer to this chart would be difficult for me.
I can
discuss the flow very well but I am not familiar with this chart.
SEN. OSMEA.
But you are saying that chart was prepared by
your external counsel?

By our external lawyers.
havent seen the final draft and I am very comfortable to discuss the
details, Your Honor, using-SEN. OSMEA.
No, I am asking you to affirm that and if you
wish, you could do that tomorrow.

MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Okay, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA.
But we would like you to affirm that.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Ill do that, Your Honor.

SEN. OSMEA.
All right. Thank you.
Now, I have some questions for Philrem.

In this chart outlining the flow of funds, was this submitted by
Philrem because there is--your name is not on it but there is an
accompanying report which reads:
Philrem distribution of the
$80,884,641.63 received from RCBC.
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Is it the same?
SEN. OSMEA.
So, this is yours?
MS. BAUTISTA. No.

SEN. OSMEA.
Same?
MS. BAUTISTA. [Nodding]

SEN. OSMEA.
Okay.
Ang nakasulat po dito you delivered about 38 percent of the 80

million or let us just call it $81 million, all right--$81 million, 38
percent of that was delivered to Weikang Xu, correct?
MS. BAUTISTA. [Nodding]
SEN. OSMEA.
Twenty-six percent to Eastern Hawaii and
Bloomberry/Solaire also received, I mean, received 36 percent.

All right. Now, where is Mr. Kim Wong? We have been hearing
that he picked up the funds personally yet his name does not appear.
MS. BAUTISTA. The beneficiary is Mr. Weikang Xu.
SEN. OSMEA.
That is what you say but you delivered it to Mr.
Kim Wong.
MS. BAUTISTA.
Mr. Weikang Xu.
Mr. Wong was just an
interpreter as he says.
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SEN. OSMEA.
Mr. Kim, mayroon kang kopya nito?
MR. WONG. Wala po.

SEN. OSMEA.
Okay. Would you like to lend him your copy,
please?
MR. WONG. Sir, puwede po--ano po ang tanong ninyo po dito?
SEN. OSMEA.
Ang tinatanong ko iyong 38 percent--tingnan
mo, huh, iyong third line, Beneficiaries are Weikang Xu, 38 percent;
Eastern Hawaii, 26 percent; at Bloomberry, 36 percent.
Iyong
Eastern Hawaii ikaw ang may-ari niyan, hindi ba?

MR. WONG. Opo.
SEN. OSMEA.
So, in-admit mo naman nakatanggap ka ng
one billion?
MR. WONG.
Opo, iyong kompanya ko po, iyong dito po sa
Eastern Hawaii. Iyong dito po sa una iyong Weikang Xu--ano ito, 28

million? Ang dami nito.
SEN. OSMEA.
All right.
MR. WONG. Sir, iyong pagka-ano ko po sa inyo, hindi ba, P400

million.../hsg
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MR. WONG. 400 million pesos po saka iyong $5 million po,

iyon lang ang tinanggap ko. Iyong iba ho, hindi ko alam.
SEN. OSMEA. Mayroon pang 500 million telegraphic transfer
Eastern Hawaii Midas, hindi ba?
MR. WONG. Opo, iyong sa kompanya po iyon.
SEN. OSMEA. nagbigay sa akin nito.
MR. WONG. Opo, iyong sa kompanya po iyon. Ito po iyong
tinitingnan ko iyong kay Weikang Xu.
SEN. OSMEA. Teka muna.
MR. WONG. Opo.
SEN. OSMEA. Mayroon pang the next day, February 11,
another 500 million by telegraphic transfer to Eastern Hawaii Midas
also, hindi ba?
MR. WONG. Opo. Iyon ho total 1B.
SEN. OSMEA. One B. Ngayon iyong $5 million ibinigay rin sa
iyo iyan in cash, hindi ba?
MR. WONG. Kinuha ko po sa bahay. Iyong February 9-SEN. OSMEA. [Inaudible]
MR. WONG. Opo.
SEN. OSMEA. Five million dollars was received by you in cash,
hindi ba?
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MR. WONG. Opo.

SEN. OSMEA. Separate iyan sa one billion na-MR. WONG. Separate po, sir.
SEN. OSMEA. Okay. Ngayon, para kanino iyong $5 million?
MR. WONG. Para kina Gao at saka kay Weikang Xu po.
SEN. OSMEA. Para kay Weikang Xu
MR. WONG. Hindi po. Para kay Gao at Ding Zhize po, sir. Sorry
po. Napabilis lang po.
SEN. OSMEA.
Gao at Ding.
MR. WONG. Si Gao po at saka si Ding.

SEN. OSMEA. But you were the one who received the money,
hindi ba?
MR. WONG. Opo. Pinakuha po nila sa akin sa bahay po nila.
SEN. OSMEA. Okay. This was not for Weikang Xu?
MR. WONG. Para po kay Gao at saka kay Ding.
SEN. OSMEA. There is something that doesnt make sense
here. He says its for Gao and you said-MR. WONG. Kasi po si Gao po ang nagpakilala sa akin kay Ding.
So, sila pong dalawa ang kausap ko. Mostly po si Gao ang kausap ko.
SEN. OSMEA. Yeah, but what the committee is trying to find
out
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MR. WONG. Opo, sir.

SEN. OSMEA. Philrem says that it was supposed to be and it
was delivered to Weikang Xu.
MR. WONG.
Wala po diyan si Weikang Xu. Hindi ko po pa
nakita iyan. Nuong last year lang ko po nakita iyon.

SEN. OSMEA. Hindi mo kilala si Weikang Xu?
MR. WONG. Once lang po, sa amin po noong May 18, 2015.
SEN. OSMEA.
Ang question po, sino po ang nagbigay ng
pangalan sa Philrem o kay Maia Deguito na ibigay itong 38 percent of

the $80 million to Weikang Xu.
MR. WONG. Kasi po para iyong ibinigay kaya lumabas iyong
Weikang Xu, hindi ba? Iyong first na ideniliver (deliver) nila $80 million
saka P20 million para kay Weikang Xu. Iyon po ang sinabi ni Gao, iyon
ang player niya. Ilalagay po doon.
SEN. OSMEA.
MR. WONG.
Huh?
Iyong first February 5, hindi ba po? Iyong 20
million at saka yong 80 million po, ang sabi ni Gao ilagay doon kay
Weikang Xu. Kasi po si Weikang Xu player ni Gao sa Midas.
SEN. OSMEA. Okay. So, ngayon ang sinasabi po ninyo it was
Weikang Xu that received the first $22 million.
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MR. WONG. Hindi. Sabi po ni Gao. Pina-send ni Gao doon sa

picture para tanggapin iyong P100 million lang po iyon, para siya iyon
lang ang ipe-play lang niya.
SEN. OSMEA. Hindi, mas malaki ng P100 million ito. Aabot ito
ng mga 30 millionalmost $31 million.
MR. WONG. Kasi po nagkamali po si Atty. Tan(?), sinabi niya
Weikang Xu first testimony niya, Player ng Solaire iyan.
SEN. OSMEA.
Alam mo, ang tinatanong ko lang who issued
the orders? It was Maia who told Philrem, I-deliver mo iyan kay
Weikang Xu. Ganun ba, Maia--Ms. Deguito?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, I have answered that already. I dont know
Weikang Xu po.
SEN. OSMEA. I am not asking if you know Weikang Xu. I am
asking did you give an instruction to deliver it to Weikang Xu.
MS. DEGUITO. The instructions given to me were just to
transfer funds from the beneficiaries to William Go to Philrem. As to
the cash delivery, sir, I have no knowledge. There was an instruction
to transfer funds to Bloomberry, Eastern Hawaii which I relayed to
Philrem. But as to cash-SEN. OSMEA. So you never gave instructions to Philrem to
deliver to anybody else except Bloomberry?
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MS. DEGUITO. Yes. Cash delivery, sir, ho ang instructions, Your

Honor.
SEN. OSMEA.
Ms. Bautista, do you still maintain that you
received instructions to give it to Weikang Xu?

SEN. OSMEA. From Ms. Deguito?
SEN. OSMEA.
And Ms. Deguito could only have gotten the
name of Weikang Xu from Kim Wong?

MS. BAUTISTA. I dont know, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. All right. Still have a lot of gaps here.
Now, wed like to also find out iyong sa Centurytex Trading.
Mr. William Go.
Mr. Go, gaano katagal na kayo nagba-bank sa RCBC?
MR. GO. Wala akong bangko sa RCBC ho, Your Honor.
SEN. OSMEA. Not a single account?
MR. GO. Iyon lang sa Trinoma, bago lang. Its a corporate
account sa Trinoma.
SEN. OSMEA. How long? When did you open the Trinoma
account?
MR. GO. Iyong Trinoma account, I think it is 2015.
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SEN. OSMEA. 2015?

MR. GO. Yes, Your Honor. Mga May yata or June.
SEN. OSMEA. Wala kayong account sa Jupiter?
MR. GO.
Wala po. Never akong nagka-account doon.
SEN. OSMEA. Okay. Not dollar, not peso?

MR. GO. Not anything.
SEN. OSMEA. Ms. Deguito, earlier in the first hearing you
testified that you funneled all $81 million to the account of William Go,
hindi ba?
MS. DEGUITO. Your Honor, with all due respect. William Go has
filed already a lot of cases against me so I would like to invoke my
right against self-incrimination.
SEN. OSMEA.
You will not incriminate yourself--You are
already on record, hindi ba?

MS. DEGUITO. What is your question? Im sorry.
SEN. OSMEA. My question is, you testified that Mr. William Go
already had an existing account in RCBCpeso account, hindi ba?
SEN. OSMEA. Okay. How long had that account been opened?
MS. DEGUITO.
It has been open since 2014.
SEN. OSMEA. RCBC Jupiter?
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SEN. OSMEA. 2014. Mr. William Go, 2014 pa raw.
MR. GO.
Your Honor, sa sinabi ko na dati pa
wala akong
account binubuksan. In fact ho, mayroon ako ditong mga dokumento.

Noong binuksan ang account na iyan noong 2014, puro fake ho ang
pirma ko. Hindi ako ang pumirma noon. Wala akong binubuksan.
SEN. OSMEA. Mayroon kang kopya ng fake signature?
MR. GO. Eto ho.
SEN. OSMEA. Okay. Would you like to hand over?
MR. GO. Yeah. Pati ho mga ID fake ginamit, binuksan nila.
SEN. OSMEA. All right. So, would you like to share that with
the committee?
MR. GO.
Sure. Hindi pa kayo binigyan ng kopya? Akala ko
binigyan na. Mayroon ba?

SEN. OSMEA. I must have a copy somewhere. I have already
three boxes on this.
MR. GO. Eto, you know thatgaling sa RCBC po ito ibinigay sa
akin kaya may kopya po ako. And you can notice ho, Your Honor, pati
iyong ID ginamit nila.
SEN. OSMEA. ID ni?
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MR. GO. ID. Gumawa sila ng fake na ID ko. Ang mukha, hindi
ho ako ito. And pagkatapos, at the same time iyong inisyu na ID
February 5, 2016, it was a dollar account naman.
SEN. OSMEA. February 5 na?
MR. GO. Oo. Inisyu iyong license.
SEN. OSMEA. On the very same day that the dollars came in?
MR. GO. Yes, Your Honor. Tapos, at the same time po may
nakatatak sa ibaba original seal, nakapirma ho si Angela Torres.
February
vinerify(verify)
vinerify(verify)
iyong
iyong
account
account.
February
1,
samantalangFebruary
2016
1
vinerify(verify), February 5 inisyu ID na peke. Pano nangyari iyon,

Your Honor?
SEN. OSMEA. Magic. Maraming magician dito.
MR. GO.
Iyon nga. You know, sa akin lang ho ang dapat sila
ang magpaliwanag, hindi ako ang nagpapaliwanag dito. Sila ang

magpaliwanag at managot dito sa ginawa sa akin.
SEN. OSMEA.
Pagkatapos may nagbukas ng dollar account,
linked to the peso account, hindi ba?

MR. GO. Iyon ang hindi ko alam kung paano ginawa nila, Your
Honor.
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SEN. OSMEA. Amazing. Alam mo, Mr. Go, hindi klaro dito
iyong mga signature card. Could we have a new copy? Hindi, kumuha
ka muna sa opisina mo. Tingnan mo, wala. Ano ang mababasa namin?
MR. GO. Hindi. Peke ho iyan yata. Mayroon ako dito na galing
sa RCBC na original na signature card. Ang RCBC ho pwedeng
magbigay. Mayroon silang kopya ng original na signature card ko po.
SEN. OSMEA. May we have the signature card, please, of-MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Yes, Your Honor.
MR. GO.
Mayroon rin po, Your Honor, iyong report nila na
simulated forgery lahat ito.

SEN. OSMEA.
Okay. Now, Philrem, you submitted five
transaction tickets/jad
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SEN. OSMEA.
Now, Philrem, you submitted five transaction
tickets using BDO, Banco de Oro. The date would be February 10, 200
million; February 10, 190 million; February 10, 100 million; February
10, another 100 million; and February 10, again, 210 millionthese
total 740 million. Were you the ones that submitted this? These are
known as transaction tickets.
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. OSMEA.
Yes, Your Honor.

All right.
Now, where does thismy gosh,
where does this fit in with the

MS. BAUTISTA.
I think mas makapal ho, mas complete iyong
documents, the one you showed kanina.

SEN. OSMEA.
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. OSMEA.
Oo nga kasi iyong total amount

This one, Your Honor.
transmitted to Bloombery was 1.37 billion.
Okay, heto. I just received this so well have to absorb this.

May I suspend my question while I study some of these new
documents that arrived, Mr. Chair?
THE CHAIRMAN.
Okay, thank you.
Okay, before I turn over to Senator Recto, I just want to askby

the way, one administrative matter.
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Mr. Bautista, could you supply the full name, if you have not, full
name and the address of your messenger, the one who is sick today?
MR. BAUTISTA.
Well, I dont have his full address but I have
his full name.

THE CHAIRMAN.
Yes. But he is your employee, so
MR. BAUTISTA.
Yes, sir.
I will get it and provide to the
committee secretary.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Okay. Get it now. Thank you.
I just like to ask RCBC about theyou remember at the very

start, we were talking about the thank you letters?
MS. BAUTISTA.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Yes, Your Honor.

The procedure is when somebody opens an
account with your bank, thank you letters are sent. Am I correct?
THE CHAIRMAN.
Yes, Your Honor.
And the one that sendsI think it is a thank
youthank you for opening an account. And I think this is a standard

operating procedure even in other banks.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Yes.
So its thank you for opening an account
and it is sent to the address of the account holder. Am I correct?

Yes, Your Honor.
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THE CHAIRMAN.
And that is one of the means to check
whether or not the account is legitimate.
Can you now tell the
committee if the thank you letters for the four or five accounts were
returned because of wrong address?
Your Honor, of the five
accounts, four were returned and the branch manager, Maia Deguito,
Angela Torres, the CSH; and the immediate superior of Maia was
advised by email of the return of four of the five accountsthe
Lagrosas, Vasquez, Cruz and Picache. The Vergara account, the letter
did not return.
THE CHAIRMAN.
The letter did not return and Ms. Dequito
was
Was informed, was advised,
Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Via email?
THE CHAIRMAN.
MS. DEQUITO.
Via email.
Ms. Dequito, you care to comment?

Your Honor, as far as I can remember, there is
nothing that we received from the email, that there are thank you
letters were returned. Otherwise, it will be sent to the branch for us to
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manually coordinate with the client as to the validity of the address

and why it was returned.
THE CHAIRMAN.
But you are claiming that it was sent.
In fact, Your Honor, she
received her emails for the Lagrosas account, the return to sender, on
June 3, 2015; for the Vasquez account on August 20, 2015; for the
Cruz account on June 16, 2015; and for the Picache account on June 3,
2015. Its in our system, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN.
So its a long time before the dollars came
in, the 81.

A long time before, Your
Honor, about
THE CHAIRMAN.
Because 2015, the dollars came in February
2016.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Yes, Your Honor.
Will you care to comment on that, Ms.
Deguito?
MS. DEQUITO.
Sir, my answer is stillI have stated my
answer already.
I have been pulled out from Jupiter February 12. I was given a
memo to directly report to the district heads starting February 15 but I
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failed to report. SoI went back to work February 16 and I was given
the preventive suspension. So since that time, I have no access to my
email.
I have no access to the documents.
I stayed away from
everybody in the branch so that they can freely have an investigation

on the matter. So as to what happened with the emails, as to what
happened with the documents, I really have no idea.
THE CHAIRMAN.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay, thank you. Senator Recto.
Mr. Chairman, we have in the possession of the committee

documents submitted by Philrem with regard to acknowledgement
receipts.
Nakalagay dito delivered by Mark.
Is this the messenger
that you were saying? Delivered by Mark

MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes, Your Honor.
That there are several acknowledgement receipts
and there is a signature of a Chinese person. And this is the signature

of the person youre saying Weikang Xu.
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes, Your Honor.

And this was signed in the presence of Mr. Kim
Wong?
MS. BAUTISTA.
Some of it, Your Honor.
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SEN. RECTO.
Not all of it. Wasnt he there in all the deliveries
and pick-ups, Kim Wong and Weikang Xu?

MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
Except for two days.
Which are the two days?
MS. BAUTISTA.
Twelve and 13.
SEN. RECTO.
So 12 and 13 is another 100 million, $3.5
million, and $6 million and another 100 million. So six million plus 3.5,
9.5 million, and 200 million, right?
So this explains the missing
money, in effect. Because sinasabi ninyo, you gave it to Weikang Xu

and Mr. Kim Wong was not there, is that correct?
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
Sorry. Whats the question, Your Honor?
You said earlier that, except for two days
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes.
you delivered money to Weikang Xu and Mr.
Wong was not around.

MS. BAUTISTA.
I delivered the first day and then the so many
days, they picked up in the house.

SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
MS. BAUTISTA. The 12th and the 13th ang wala ho si Mr. Wong.
SEN. RECTO.
And the 12th and 13th, si Weikang Xu lang ito?
MS. BAUTISTA.
Yes, Your Honor.
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SEN. RECTO.
Okay, and he picked this up also in your house?
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
Wala siyang interpreteter na kasama o mayroon?
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
Its the same person, Your Honor.
Yeah, so wala si Mr. Kim Wong dito?
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes, Your Honor.
Wala po.
So ito iyong sinasabi nyo. So more or less, this
is $9.5 million, plus 200 million. Ito iyong sinasabi niposible.

MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes, Your Honor.
Four point two million more or less iyong halaga
ng 200 million, 4.2 plus the six, 10.2, okay?

Okay. So that should explain/meln
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SEN. RECTO.
So that should explain partially.
Naibigay
ninyo, thats what youre saying, not in the presence of Kim Wong.
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes, Your Honor.
But in your house also?
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes.
Okay. And Mark will attest to this?
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes, Your Honor, and he was also there.
Okay.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Excuse me. Who is he? For the record.
MS. BAUTISTA.
Sorry.
MR. BAUTISTA.
I was there, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN.
SEN. RECTO.
Mr. Concon Bautista, you were there?
Okay.
THE CHAIRMAN. And so this is no longer in Solaire, the

deliveries?
MR. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes, sir. It was picked up in our house.

It was picked up. Okay. Mr. Kim Wong, do you
confirm that at least in four occasions you were there noong dineliver
(deliver) yung pera kasama mo si Weikang Xu?
MR. WONG.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. WONG.
Hindi po.
So never mo nakasama si Weikang Xu?
Never po.
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SEN. RECTO.
Its always the money was given to you?
MR. WONG.
Hindi po. Yung pini-pick up ko po sa bahay, ako
lang po mag-isa.
SEN. RECTO.
Tama. Hindi. Yung sa Solaire, hindi ba may
isangdaan kang nakuha, tama?

MR. WONG.
Opo, ako po yung nakatanggap.
SEN. RECTO.
Tapos three other times, ikaw ang pumick (pick)
up sa bahay nila?
MR. WONG.
Opo.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. WONG.
Wala kang kasamang Weikang Xu?

Wala po.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. WONG.
Ikaw mismo?
Opo, at saka mga tao ko po.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. WONG.
SEN.
At mga tao mo?

Opo.
RECTO.
Mayroon
bang
pinapirmahan
sa
iyo,
acknowledgment receipt?
MR. WONG.
Wala po.
SEN. RECTO.
Wala?
MR. WONG.
Wala po.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. WONG.
Okay. Kilala mo yung Mark?

Hindi ko po kilala.
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SEN. RECTO.
MR. WONG.
Pwede mong tingnan itong dokumentong ito?

Opo, sir.
SEN. RECTO.
Ms. Bautista, are you saying that the signature
there is the signature of Weikang Xu?

MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. WONG.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes, Your Honor.
Okay.
Sir, ano po ang tanong ninyo dito?
Noong nag-pick up ka ng pera sa kanila sa
bahay nila, sinasabi mo wala si Weikang Xu, ikaw ang pumick (pick)
up hindi ba? Ikaw ba yung nakapirma diyan?
MR. WONG.
SEN. RECTO.
Hindi po.
Ngayon mo lang nakita yung dokumentong iyan?
MR. WONG.
Ngayon lang po.
SEN. RECTO.
Ngayon lang?
MR. WONG.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. WONG.
Opo.
Okay. Kilala mo yung Weikang Xu?
Kilala ko po.
SEN. RECTO.
Alam mo ba yung signature niya?
MR. WONG.
Hindi ko po ano.
Pero alam ko pirma parang
isang letter lang po.

SEN. RECTO.
MR. WONG.
Okay.
So wala kang pinipirmahan?
Wala po. Wala po.
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SEN. RECTO.
Okay. You never made Mr. Wong signed any
document sa bahay niya, Ms. Salud? Sa bahay ninyo huh, rather.

MS. BAUTISTA.
Oo.
Wala, Your Honor, because ang
beneficiary namin si Mr. Weikang Xu.

SEN. RECTO. Oo. Na tinatanggihan naman iyon ni Maia. Okay.
Mr. Wong, did you ever instruct Maia to instruct Philrem na
ibigay itong perang ito, yung one billion, sa Eastern Hawaii Leisure?
MR. WONG.
Sir, noong nagkausap po kami nina Weikang Xu,
so sinasabi niya sa akin sabihin sa kanila lahat kung maaari dalhin sa

Solaire. Yung 1 B lang iwan doon kasi para maglaro.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. WONG.
Iwan saan?
Sa Eastern Hawaii po.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
MR. WONG.
Si Gao po.
Kasi sila po nag-usap ni Ding.
So
ganoon ang in-explain ko sa kanila.

SEN. RECTO.
Kay Maia?
MR. WONG.
Kay Maia po.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay. So maliwanag sinabihan mo si Maia na
yung pera sa Philrem ibigay sa Eastern Hawaii. Is that correct, Maia?

MS. DEGUITO. For Bloomberry and Eastern Hawaii, Your Honor.
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SEN. RECTO.
Correct. Okay. So ito, walang problema dito sa
testimonya. Tinatanggap ni Mr. Wong na inutos sa iyo, na inutos mo

sa Philrem na yung one billion ibigay sa Eastern Hawaii.
MS. DEGUITO.
Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay. Tinatanggap mo rin na inutos sa iyo ni
Mr. Wong na sabihin sa Philrem na ibigay yung pera sa Solaire.

MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
MS. DEGUITO.
Yes, Bloomberry. Yes, Your Honor.

Bloomberry, yung 1.3 whatever billion, right?
Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO. Ang hindi mo tinatanggap yung cash transactions?

MS. DEGUITO.
Wala po kasi akong ganoong instruction.
SEN. RECTO.
Correct. Okay. Wala ring instruction sa iyo si
Mr. Wong na ibigay ito kay Weikang Xu?

MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
Wala din po, Your Honor.

Wala rin.
So as far as youre concerned, there were instructions
given to you and you relayed the instructions to Philrem, ibigay yung
one billion sa Eastern Hawaii, ibigay yung 1.3 billion roughly, more or
less, to Bloomberry.
At iyan lahat naging bank to bank iyan.
At
walang inutos sa iyo si Mr. Kim Wong na mag-deliver ng P600 million

in cash, $18 million, walang sinabi sa iyo si Kim Wong na sabihin sa
Philrem na ito yung gagawin?
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MS. DEGUITO.
Wala po.
SEN. RECTO.
Wala. Paano mo na-instruct ang Philrem doon
sa Eastern Hawaii at Solaire, telepono lang?

MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes, Your Honor.

Voice call?
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes, Your Honor.

May voice call. Walang text message?
MS. DEGUITO.
Wala po.
SEN. RECTO.
Wala. Okay. Sino yung sinasabihan mo, si Mr.
Bautista ba, si Concon Bautista ba o si Mrs. Salud Bautista?

MS. DEGUITO.
Sir, I talked to both of them. Hindi ko na po
matandaan kung kanino ko siya nasabi.

SEN. RECTO.
So both of them ang kausap mo?
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. RECTO.
Opo. Kung kanino ko nasabi iyong para kay

And you have their numbers on your cellphone?
MS. DEGUITO.
Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
So you confirm, either Ms. Salud or
Concon, that Maia did instruct you to remit through the bank yung
PNB, Eastern Hawaii?
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes, Your Honor.
And you confirm with regard to Bloomberry?
MS. BAUTISTA.
Yes, Your Honor.
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SEN. RECTO.
The problem now is really in the cash.
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes, Your Honor.

Hindi ba? Okay. And you claim that these are
real documents, these acknowledgment receipts?

MS. BAUTISTA.
Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay.
But you also confirm and you did not
admit this in the first few hearings na si Mr. Wong was always present
in Solairethe first time, in Solaire andThank you, Mr. Attorney.
Thats fine with me. Dont worry.and in Solaire and in the house.
You never mentioned also, its only now that I looked at the
documents, it would appear thatparang lumalabas laging Mr. Wong
was there as an interpreter.
But now youre saying that in two
occasions he was not there as an interpreter.

MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes, Your Honor.

Okay. So parang may onsehan din ditto, huh.
Thats how it would appear, huh.
Dont blame us.
Thats how it
appears, huh.
MS. BAUTISTA.
No, no. Its okay, Your Honor. But I would
just like to
SEN. RECTO.
Kasi what is a fact is, again, let me repeat.
Eighty million dollars did enter your account. We know the 61 went to
the casinos. Then na-withdraw, one way or the other, as you try to
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explain in all of these money changers and pawnshops and whatever it

is, conveniently you had a cash somewhere available.
And Mark
signed all of these and he is not here today. Suddenly maysakit, hindi
ba? Thats how it looks like here.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Excuse me.
Ms. Salud, could you just give a verbal response, for the record?
MS. BAUTISTA.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes, Your Honor.
Okay. Let me move on naman.
Mr. Adrian Yujuico, what do you know in all of these?

MR. YUJUICO.
SEN. RECTO.
Your Honor, none.

None.
MR. YUJUICO.
Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
So there was never a meeting in you residence
in Forbes?
MR. YUJUICO.
Sir, the meeting was originally planned by Sir
Romy Agarrado and I only suggested my house.

SEN. RECTO.
MR. YUJUICO.
Romy asked for a meeting?

No, sir. He wanted to drink he said and I
suggested my house and thats the only connection I have with the
meeting
SEN. RECTO.
Okay. And youve heard of thisyouve seen
the testimony of Mr. Romy?
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MR. YUJUICO.
SEN. RECTO.
Yes, Your Honor.

And you know whats happening, right, with
Maia and Romy?

MR. YUJUICO.
Now I know, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
Now, what about in the previous hearing, yung
kay Maia na they used your residence daw to bribe other officers of
the bank?
MR. YUJUICO.
Your Honor, wala po akong narinig na ganoon.
We were all together.

SEN. RECTO.
MR. YUJUICO.
SEN. RECTO.
MR. YUJUICO.
Okay. So wala kang narinig na ganoon?

Wala po, Your Honor.
So hindi totoo yung sinasabi ni Romy?
Hindi po, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO. Yung sinasabi ni Romy that he tried to bribe the

others
MR. YUJUICO.
Yes, Your Honor, kasi nandoon po kami lahat.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay. Isnt it that your picture is in one of the
accounts?.../sglr
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SEN. RECTO. is in one of the accounts?

MR. YUJUICO.
That, Your Honor, I dont believe, but I dont
know how they said na ako po iyon. I wanted to have a copy. Sana
makita ko talaga iyong ID just to prove its me.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. Yes.
RCBC, in which account does his picture come out with?
Adrian Yujuicos face comes
out in the Lagrosas account which had $30 million, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. And he works with RCBC?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Hes a reserve officer and he
SEN. RECTO. What does that mean? What is a reserve officer?
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Hes not assigned to a specific
branch.
He was not assigned to Jupiter, but we are aware that on
February 5 in the morning while they were waiting for the remittances
to come in Adrian Yujuico was in the branch together with Maia
Deguito, so we
SEN. RECTO. Yes. Adrian, is that true, on February 5 in the
morning, were you in the branch that day?
MR. YUJUICO.
Sir, to be honest, Im always there in the
branch, most of the time.
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2:54 p.m.
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SEN. RECTO. Okay.

MR. YUJUICO.
But I cannot remember if I was there during
Feb. 5.
SEN. RECTO. February 5, okay, got it. Yes.
If I may add, Your Honor, I
have the affidavit of Romulo Agarrado saying that he was in the house
of Adrian Yujuico when the P5 million bribe was made.
SEN. RECTO. Yes, we are familiar with that.
I also have the affidavits of
Lauren Anthony Escobar confirming the same thing.

SEN. RECTO. Yes.
And Reymart Marbella, these
are branch officers. So we have several affidavits confirming the same

thing, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO. Okay, next question, who are the others? So you
have one photo in one account, who are the others?
We have another account that
we have identified and it is the Michael Cruz account, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. Okay.
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2:54 p.m.
3
And we believe that the face
is of gentleman by the name of Robert Bonagua.

SEN. RECTO.
And who is this person?
Does he work with
RCBC?
No, Your Honor. Based on his
Facebook he works or is a senior manager and the former employer of

Ms. Deguito, of Maia Deguito.
SEN. RECTO. Is that correct, Ms. Deguito?
MS. DEGUITO. Sir, let me answer on that.
SEN. RECTO. Yes, okay.
MS. DEGUITO.
As I have mentioned before I was pulled out
from the branch February 12.

SEN. RECTO. Yes.
MS. DEGUITO.
As far as the documents are concerned I dont
know what happened, okay.

Adrian Yujuico.
They were saying its the picture of
As far as I can remember in the last audit of the
branch, the regular audit, one of the findings there was the account of
Lagrosas.
Adrian frequents the branch.
So if he is the one on the
picture, the audit could have recognized it already. Second, a friend,
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2:54 p.m.
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the one they were mentioning, Robert Bonagua, texted my husband

last weekend.
SEN. RECTO. Okay.
MS. DEGUITO.
That his Facebook was hacked and some
pictures were grabbed, and somebody logged into it as Michael Cruz.

We have a screenshot of the text message that he sent to my husband
because I am not communicating with anyone now, so I dont know.
And just to note, Robert Bonagua is also from East West Bank. Adrian
came from East West Bank.
I came from East West Bank.
Torres
came from East West Bank.
I dont know why East West Bank has
been dragged on this

SEN. RECTO.
So three of the four accounts came from East
West Bank? Parang ganoon, iyong mga litrato.

MS. DEGUITO. They were saying two, one is Adrian
SEN. RECTO. Yeah.
MS. DEGUITO.
One is appearing to be my friend, but I am
telling you now that he is connected to East West Bank.

SEN. RECTO. Yes.
MS. DEGUITO.
I feel it is very unfair that a lot of people have
been, you know
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SEN. RECTO.
So, you are saying that you had nothing to do
with using their pictures and opening accounts?

MS. DEGUITO.
Of course not, sir.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. So, that is yourin effect, I am helping

you make your testimony. That is the implication, right?
MS. DEGUITO. I am sorry. Yes. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO. So it is possible what you are saying is someone
you left the branch, these documents may have been manufactured.
That is what you were saying.
MS. DEGUITO.
That could possibly be.
Because they could
look at it, I was pulled out of the branch, February 12.
I have a
memo, February 12. I was preventively suspended February 16. How

could I get hold of all of those? And as far as I know they pulled out
my computer in the branch.
SEN. RECTO. Okay.
Yes, please.
MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Your Honor, I just would like to
answer there is no sense or logic in what she is saying. The IDs were
submitted in May 2015 by Ms. Deguito.
supposedly met these people.
She was the one who
At first she said she met them in
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Solaire.
And then she met them in Midas.
understand her inconsistencies.
So we also do not
I dont know the relation why the
account of Robert Bonagua was hacked has anything to do with this.

If the picture of the gentleman is Robert Bonagua, then it should be
the same regardless of hacking or not. And, lastly, I would like to say
the identity of Adrian Yujuico was unexpected incident.
They didnt
know who he was. We interviewed him because of some meetings in

his home.
And when we saw him we identified him as Lagrosas.
also should say that in the investigation there was no

SEN. RECTO. But he works with you, right?
Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO. RCBC.

MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. But its a 7,000 people and I
would look
SEN. RECTO. Yes, but you should not say that
Hes not assigned in head
office, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO. Yes, but you should not say that you dont know
who he was.
Well, I personally
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SEN. RECTO. Yes.

MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. have never met him. That is
what I meant, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO.
Okay, yes, okay. And then, okay, if they opened
it in May mayroon kayong auditing.

Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO. When did you audit it?

The last audit was early this
year, Your Honor.

SEN. RECTO.
So, prior to what? Early this year is what?
January, around January,
Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO. So dapat nakita na iyon.
We do not do 100 percent of
all the accounts. And these accounts were not pulled out. May I just
say the accountsthe documents were pulled out February 10, when
Maia Deguito was in the branch.
SEN. RECTO. Okay. Okay. Who were the other?
We havent identified, Your
Honor. The faces, we havent identified.
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SEN. RECTO. Okay. So iyong dalawa hindi pa na-identify, or

tatlo?
Tatlo, we havent identified
the three.
SEN. RECTO. So, only two?
We are looking, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO. Okay, thank you for that testimony.

Okay. And they have never seen this?
Mr. Alvin Yujuico has
never seen these documents?

MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. I would not know, Your Honor.
SEN. RECTO. It would appear
Yeah.
SEN. RECTO. Okay.

That is all, Your Honor, for this point in time.
Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN. Thank you.
At this point, Senator Bam Aquino.
SEN. AQUINO. Just a quick question, Mr. Chairman, regarding
the IDs.
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So, Ms. Deguito, iyong mga tao sa ID na sinabmit (submit) sa

iyo for opening of accounts, you met them personally, right?
MS. DEGUITO.
Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Yes. So iyong bawat isang tao doon sa IDsi

Cruz, si Lagrosas, et cetera, et cetera, Galvezna-meet mo sila?
SEN. AQUINO. At iyong mga mukha na na-meet mo personally
iyon rin iyong mukha sa ID?
SEN. AQUINO. Yes. At hindi mo naisip, Parang kamukha ito ni
Adrian, o kamukha noong former officemate ko.
MS. DEGUITO. Kasi hindi naman po kamukha.
SEN. AQUINO. Hindi naman kamukha?
MS. DEGUITO. Opo.
SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Iyong mga xerox copy na nakita namin
na-submit hindi siya malinaw.
But iyong original records mo ba
malinaw iyong mga picture niya?

MS. DEGUITO. Yeah, I would say the original
SEN. AQUINO. Was clear.
MS. DEGUITO.
I mean the file in the branch is clear.
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SEN. AQUINO. Yes.

MS. DEGUITO.
I may not remember it asI will just have to
ask po. Wait lang.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay.
MS. DEGUITO. Its a clear copy. What we have in the branch
is a clear copy.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay. May I ask RCBCweve already agreed
to open up the accounts, no?

Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO. Can you give us the original ones? Because the
ones that the Committee has medyo, to be very honest, medyo
blurred na siya.
Your Honor, I dont have the
originals with me but I have clearer copies than what you might have.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay, can we submit that to the Committee,
please?
SEN. AQUINO.
Yes, Your Honor.
All right.
Tanungin ko lang si Mr. Wong.
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Mr. Wong, sa inyong testimony noong araw na binukas iyong

mga account
MR. K. WONG. Opo
SEN. AQUINO. walang ibang tao doon?
MR. K. WONG. Wala. Opo, opo, doon sa office ko po si Gao
lang po, si Maia at saka ako po.
SEN. AQUINO.
At saka ikaw.
MR. K. WONG. Opo.

SEN. AQUINO.
Pero si Ms. Deguito, kasama niya iyong mga
ibang kasama sa branch, di ba?
Kasi, if Im not mistaken, kumain
kayo.
MS. DEGUITO.
They were outside, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
They were outside.
I think they were in the
restaurant yata, no?

MR. K. WONG. No. No, nasa labas lang po.
SEN. AQUINO. So alam mo na may mga kasama siya?
MR. K. WONG. Opo, nasa labas po.
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SEN. AQUINO. Okay. May I ask Ms. Maia, iyong mga kasama
mo ba will they testify na iyong limang tao nandoon na kasama mo
with Mr. Wong?
MS. DEGUITO.
They didnt see them.
SEN. AQUINO. They didnt see. So

MS. DEGUITO.
Kasi after po a while they went na to the
Japanese restaurant.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay.
Paborito ko rin iyong Japanese na
restaurant na iyan.
So, they were waiting in the Japanese restaurant for you?
MS. DEGUITO.
Opo.
SEN. AQUINO.
Nasaan ba iyong office ni Kim Wong?
MS. DEGUITO. Nandoon po sa loob ng casino.

SEN. AQUINO. So hindi siya on the sameis it on the same
floor?
SEN. AQUINO. So magkaibang floor siya?
MS. DEGUITO. Opo.
SEN. AQUINO. So hindi nila nakita iyong limang tao? /mrjc
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SEN. AQUINO.
...So hindi nila nakita iyong limang tao?
MS. DEGUITO.
No. Hindi po.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay. Was Mr. Yujuico part of that group na
nag-lunch ba iyon o dinner?

MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. AQUINO.
Parang po, parang po.

Adrian, ang testimony ni Ms. Deguito is nag-
meet sila, na-meet niya iyong limang tao, binigay iyong mga
dokumentotama, hindi ba?at dala-dala niya doon sa kainan. That
is right?
MS. DEGUITO.
Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
Do you attest to that, that in that get-together
ninyo on that day that these accounts were first brought up, dala-dala
nga niya iyong mga folder na may mga ID at may mga bank
documents?
MR. YUJUICO.
true.
Your Honor, sumunod po ako sa kanila, that is
Iyong documents po, hindi ko na po kasi tiningnan kasi I was
invited lang po to eat.

SEN. AQUINO.
Okay. Pero ang alam ko kasi, kung hindi ako
nagkakamali, nandoon na sila tapos pumasok si Maia?

MR. YUJUICO.
Sir, ako po sumunod.
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SEN. AQUINO.
Sumunod ka lang?
MR. YUJUICO.
Iyong iba po
SEN. AQUINO.
Si Ms. Torres was there?
MS. DEGUITO.
Your Honor, I met Sir Kim at theiyon, sa
labas ng Japanese resto, hindi po sa harapan nila.

SEN. AQUINO.
Okay.
No, but binigay niyaIf I am not
mistaken, binigay niya iyong mga dokumento?

MS. DEGUITO.
It is inside the envelope. Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay. I just want to know.
Ms. Torres, if you can come to the mike. You were present in
thisLunch ba ito o dinner, Ms. Deguito?
MS. DEGUITO.
SEN. AQUINO.
Dinner po.
You were present in this dinner, hindi ba, Ms.
Torres?
MS. TORRES.
SEN. AQUINO.
MS. TORRES.
SEN. AQUINO.
[Inaudible]
Please repeat.
Yes, Your Honor.
Oo. Late pumasok si Ms. Deguito kasi kausap
niya si Mr. Wong. Tama?

MS. TORRES.
Yes, Your Honor.
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SEN. AQUINO.
Pagpasok ba niya, may dala siyang envelope
ng mga dokumento?
MS. TORRES.
Sir, hindi ko na po maalala pero parang may
dala siyang envelope.

SEN. AQUINO.
Okay. At hindi mo nakita iyong mga taongI
am sure nakita mo rin iyong files because you were the assistant of
Ms. Deguito, hindi ba?
MS. TORRES.
SEN. AQUINO.
Yes, Your Honor.

Okay. Hindi mo nakita iyong mga taong iyon,
physically?
MS. TORRES.
No.
SEN. AQUINO.
No. But you are attesting to the fact that the
meeting took place.

Mayroon bang ibang makapagte-testify na nakita nila iyong
limang tao, Ms. Deguito?
Sa pagkakaalam mo, sa lahat ng mga
kaibigan mong nandoon, mayroon ba?

MS. DEGUITO.
Wala po, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
Wala.
Because Mr. Wong is sticking to his
story na tatlo lang kayo.

That is right, Mr. Wong, ano?
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MR. WONG.
Opo, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
Pumasok ba si Mr. Wong doon sa dinner?
Sumama ba siya sa dinner?

MS. DEGUITO.
No, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
Sumama ka ba sa dinner, Mr. Wong?
MR. WONG.
Hindi po ako umakyat sa taas.
SEN. AQUINO.
Kilala mo rin ba iyong mga staff ni Ms.
Deguito?
MR. WONG.
Hindi ko po kilala. Pero kasi po doon sa office ko,
pagpasok mo, may bench po, nandiyan po sila.

SEN. AQUINO.
MR. WONG.
Okay. So, nagkita kayo?

Nakita ko kaso hindi ko pinapasok.
Hindi ko
naman sila kilala.

SEN. AQUINO.
And do you attestyou came late, Mr. Yujuico?
Ms. Torres, nakita niyo si Mr. Wong?

MS. TORRES.
No, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
So, you are saying hindi kayo nagkita. Hindi
kayo naghihintay sa labas ng office niya doon sa bench? Hindi?

She is nodding no.
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So, you are saying, Mr. Wong, nagkita kayo nung mga staff
nakita ka nung mga staff ni Ms. Deguito?
MR. WONG.
May mga tao siyang kasama.
SEN. AQUINO.
MR. WONG.
Hindi ko na ho masyadong matandaan.
SEN. AQUINO.
MR. WONG.
Sila ba iyan? Si Ms. Torres ba iyon?
Si Mr. Yujuico ba iyon?
Hindi ko ho masyadong matandaan.
SEN. AQUINO.
MR. WONG.
Hindi mo matandaan.
Kasi kapag hindi ko ho kausap, wala nga po
iyonghindi ko ho pinapasok.
SEN. AQUINO.
MR. WONG.
Mr. Wong, may secretary ka ba sa office mo?

Wala po akong secretary pero mayroon pong
concierge sa labas ng office ko.

SEN. AQUINO.
If I can ask Midas, Atty. Nepomuceno,
mayroon ba kayong CCTV of that day? This is May ito, ano, May 2015?
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
SEN. AQUINO.
May 15, 2015? Or it is 2015.
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
SEN. AQUINO.
May 15, Your Honor.
We will have to check that, Your Honor.
Oo, because this is very crucial because there
is a direct conflictagain, ito po iyong mga inconsistencies natin
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there is a direct conflict in the testimonies.
According to Mr. Wong,
tatlo lang silang magkasama. According to Ms. Deguitoactually eight

kayo, ano, because may lima at saka ikaw, si Mr. Wong at sakaor
seven kayo? Ilan kayo, Ms. Deguito, doon sa meeting?
MS. DEGUITO.
Sir, I cannot remember. I said more than five
but less than 10.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, can we check with Midas if there is
a
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
Yes, Your Honor. We will check our CCTV
recordings.
SEN. AQUINO.
Thank you.
Mr. Wong, may iba bang puwedeng magsabi na walang kasama

si Ms. Deguito or walang kasama si Mr. Gao?
May iba ba?
Iyong
concierge, puwede ba siyang mag-testify niyan?

MR. WONG.
Kinakausap po namin para gawin ang affidavit po.
Nag-iisip pa ho sila kasi masyadong matagal na po. So, naghahanap

din ako doon sa CCTV kung paano makita po.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay. Pero sa office niyo po, walang ibang tao
doon?
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MR. WONG.
Hindi, office ko, ako lang pong mag-isa.
Pero
pagpasok, bago pumasok sa office, may tatlo ho concierge tao bago

pumasok. Dadaan muna sa kanila bago pumasok sa office ko.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay.
Mr. Chairman, I guess we will need to check that.

And please submit that to the Committee, Ms. Nepomuceno,
once you have the footage.
Thank you.
MS. NEPOMUCENO.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Yes, Your Honor.
Yes. Just a few administrative matters.
Senator Aquino, I would like to confirm, you want Mr. Pealosa

present in the next hearing?
Yes. So ordered, Comsec.
Mr. Bautista, you already have the address?
MR. BAUTISTA.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Sir, that is being handed over now.

Okay.
Ms. Abad, yes, I see you want to say something.

MS. ABAD.
May I seek a clarification from the chairman?
Your Honor, on March 31, Mr. Kim Wong, through his lawyer,
Atty. Inocencio Ferrer, delivered to our office cold cash in the amount
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of US$4,630,000. The AMLC, represented by myself and by Insurance

Commissioner, Emmanuel Dooc, acknowledged receipt of the money
together with the ambassador, the Honorable John Gomes. Then, last
Friday, Your Honor, I was informed by the Honorable Ambassador that
the Bangladesh Bank governor would want the money remitted back to
Bangladesh immediately. And yesterday, Mr. Kim Wong, through his
lawyer, Atty. Ferrer, again delivered to our office the amount of
Php38,280,000.
Again, we acknowledged receipt of the money with
the Honorable Ambassador.

Taking note of the wish of the Bangladesh Bank governor to have
the money remitted immediately to the Bangladesh, we ask the lawyer
of Mr. Kim Wong if they have no objection to the turnover of the
money to Bangladesh Bank.
We asked that question, Your Honor,
because in the documents accompanying the delivery of the money, it

was indicated that the money is being delivered to the AMLC for
safekeeping.
So, we wanted clarification on whether that would
indicate conformity to the

THE CHAIRMAN.
Okay. I see what you mean. Because the
letter of the lawyer of Mr. Kim Wong just said, For safekeeping, not
for turnover to the Bangladesh government.
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MS. ABAD.
Yes, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Mr. Kim Wong, do you agreedo you have
any objections to?

MR. WONG.
Sir, puwede ba ho lawyer ko na lang po? Hindi ko
po alam mga ganon po.

THE CHAIRMAN.
sinurender
(surrender)
Hindi, pero sa iyo, sang-ayon ka ba na iyong

mong
pera,
ibalik
na
sa
Bangladesh
government?
MR. WONG.
Puwede po lawyer ko, hindi ko po talaga alam
kung paano poTechnically, hindi ko po alam. Sa akin ho, okay pero

hindi ko pokasi may...
THE CHAIRMAN.
Okay. Ipapasagot ko iyong lawyer mo. Pero
sa iyo
MR. WONG.
Okay po ako.
THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. WONG.
Okay ka na ibigay?
Opo.
THE CHAIRMAN.
May we hear from your counsel?
Since your client is insisting.

MR. FERRER.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Yes.
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MR. FERRER.
I am Atty. Inocencio P. Ferrer Jr. I am one of
the legal counsels of Mr. Kim Wong.

THE CHAIRMAN.
MR. FERRER.
Okay.
Your Honor, we prepared a letter surrendering
the abandoned funds to the AMLC, pursuant to the request of the

Honorable Committeethe members of the Committeethat these
funds should be surrendered to the AMLC for safekeeping. Why, Your
Honor? Because No. 1, the law creating AMLC provides a process. The
AMLC would not just automatically give funds to a claimant without
going through the process.
I think the law provides the filing of a
forfeiture proceeding .../jlf
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MR. FERRER.
filing of a forfeiture proceeding because nobody
knows who owns the fund.

Secondly, again wed like to give due respect to the honorable
Senate Blue Ribbon Committee because it is your Committee that
requested us to turn over and since this is really a government to
government procedure. Were just a private party. We leave it up to
the government through the Senate Blue Ribbon Committee which
really started the investigations. We were guided by the Senate Blue
Ribbon Committee so we would like the Senate Blue Ribbon Committee
also to guide AMLC what to do with the money. But right now, we just
follow the law.
SEN. RECTO.
Mr. Chairman, just a clarification, did we request
Mr. Kim Wong to surrender money for safekeeping purposes sa AMLC?

I dont recall
THE CHAIRMAN. But at any rate, Senator, its already there.
Its already there.
SEN. RECTO. No, no. The statement of the attorney is that
THE CHAIRMAN. We requested.
SEN. RECTO.
we requested. And I dont recall of any request
from the BlueI am a member of the Blue Ribbon Committee, I dont
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know of signing or we voting, requesting Mr. Kim Wong.
Ang
pagkaintindi ko, ang sabi ni Mr. Wong, Mayroong pera sa akin at

gusto kong i-turn over iyan, ibaliki-turn over iyan sa AMLC.
Iyon
ang pagkaalam ko.

THE CHAIRMAN. Well, at any rate, the records will bear us out
there.
But at any rate, we do understand what you just said, Atty.
Ferrer, there is a process and well let AMLC handle the process. But
we also like to hear if Mr. Kim Wong, the person who handed over the
funds, the processor of the fundslets call him processor of the
fundshas no objection, notwithstanding the fact that if AMLC finds it
fit that they should go through the legal process, then they shall do so.
But I think what they really just want is a categorical consent.
MR. FERRER.
Your Honor, on this matter, the legal counsel of
Kim Wong will give him the advice. Its a very technical, legal matter
and as legal counsels, well be the ones giving him advice on this
matter, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Therefore, whats the response would you be
able to give, Counsel, your client as to response?

SEN. ENRILE.
Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Senator Enrile.
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SEN. ENRILE.
I think that while we want to help Bangladesh
on this matter because we expect them to help us if we are in the

same boat, the point is we have to observe our laws as they will also
observe their laws.
And I dont think a committee of the Senate or
even the Senate can compel any citizen of this country to surrender
anything to anybody until the courts of this Republic will say so.
THE CHAIRMAN.
compelling.
Yes, Senator Enrile.
But we are not
We did not compel Mr. Kim Wong.
Our asking is the
request of AMLC that they just want to get the consent of Mr. Kim
Wong. The comments of Atty. Ferrer as to a legal process, as I said,
are well-taken.
SEN. ENRILE.
Mr. Chairman, if you were in the place of a
citizen, the tendency of the request of the Committee is, in effect, a

compulsion.
SEN. AQUINO.
Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Senator Aquino.
SEN. AQUINO. Id like to clarify. Iyong pagbalik ninyo po ng

pera, voluntarily po ba iyon or dahil kinompel (compel) ka ng mga
senador or kinompel ka ng AMLCo voluntary po sa inyo iyon?
MR. WONG. Voluntary po.
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SEN. AQUINO. Just to clarify, Mr. Chairman.

THE CHAIRMAN.
Okay then. So as not to dilly-dally on this
issue, we just would like to make it clear that we are not compelling
we are not compelling Mr. Kim Wong to answer in any way yes or
no. Its just that there is a question by AMLC whether they have the
consent of Mr. Kim Wong.
Now, if you dont want to answer that, thats your prerogative.
But Id like to repeat that this is in no way should be construed as to
be compelling you to answer in one way or another. Am I clear?
SEN. ENRILE.
Im not lawyering for anybody here. But I was
present when the Committee asked Mr. Kim Wong whether he would
surrendersurrender the amount in his possession and I appeal to the
records to find out whether that statement is correct.
THE CHAIRMAN.
Okay.
SEN. AQUINO. On that point, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to ask AMLC, sa proseso po ba ninyo, hindi
puwedeng ibalik sa Bangladesh angwhy are you asking for the
consent of Mr. Wong? In your own process, its already been turned
over to you.
Kasi I think Senator Enriles concern is were not
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following the process. So I want to ask, ano po ba iyong proseso ng

AMLC pag may ibinabalik na pera na galing sa illegal na bagay?
MS. ABAD.
Your Honor, in this case, we were asking for the
conformity of Mr. Kim Wong because in the documents accompanying

the delivery of the money, it was stated that they are delivering the
money to the AMLC for safekeeping.
And here is the Bangladesh
government which is requesting for the immediate remittance of the

money back to Bangladesh so we would want to know if we can
already bring the money to the Bangladesh officials so they can
process the transfer of money to their country.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay. Executive Director, Im guessing this is
because you havent filed a case yet. So as long as you havent filed a
case yet, any transfer is between private parties, tama po?
MS. ABAD.
Yes, Your Honor. Because it is our understanding
that Mr. Kim Wong voluntarily surrendered the money to the

Bangladesh government.
SEN. AQUINO.
No. In fact, I would tend to agree with you
that its best with Bangladesh but I think the lawyers of Mr. Wong are
asking for some time to advise their client properly which were giving
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the lawyers. But my question is, it becomes a private process because

wala pang kasong napa-file, tama?
MS. ABAD.
Yes, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
Okay. Once you filed the case and they do not
contest the transfer of the money, then that money can be transferred
because if they dont contest it, then its up to the courts already to
make the decision.
MS. ABAD.
However, if Mr. Kim
Wong is willing to turn it over now, then we need not go through the
legal process of filing a petition for civil forfeiture.
We can dispense
with the petition for civil forfeiture if Mr. Kim Wong would manifest his
willingness to turn over the money to the Bangladesh government at
this moment, Your Honor.
SEN. AQUINO.
Yes. I think the lawyers have asked for time to
advise their client properly and we will give them that due. But I think
your request is also very clear to Mr. Wong. If this is returned in good
faith, then we can return it. But I think, Attorney or E.D., filing the
civil forfeiture case will really move things along because then we will
see who will contest and who will not contest. Pag hindi nila i-contest,
ibig sabihin, talagang ibinibigay na nila iyan sa Bangladesh but if other
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parties are going to contest that, then ibig sabihin noon, they claim
that money as theirs.
So I would say, maybe the ball is in AMLCs
court. Nasa atin na po iyan, on the government side to file the cases
as soon as possible para malaman na natin kung sino iyong magkocontest talaga at hindi magko-contest noong pera.
THE CHAIRMAN.
This is addressed to Atty. Abad and to Mr.
Dooc or the AMLC.

I just got this document from the ambassador just now and it
says that there isThis is to acknowledge receipt of P38 million
representing abandoned funds under the name of Gao Shuhua.
And then its signed, Atty. Julia Bacay-Abad, Atty. Emmanuel
Dooc and His Excellency. The ambassador signed it.
So what is the meaning of this?
Does this mean that its
alreadybecause it says, receipt of funds.

then?
What does this mean
Does this mean this isYoure the ones who drafted this
documentbrhg
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THE CHAIRMAN. Youre the ones who drafted this document,

I suppose, I presume. Did you draft this document?
MS. ABAD. We prepared that document, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. So since you prepared it, what do you
mean by this document?
MS. ABAD. So its just an acknowledgment of receipt of the
funds and you would notice in the second paragraph, Your Honor, it is
stated there that This token of acknowledgment, sincerity and effort
to cooperate, retrieve and transmit for turnover to the Bangladesh
Bank the abandoned funds should not be interpreted or construed et
cetera, et cetera. So there is a phrase there For turnover to the
Bangladesh Bank.
THE CHAIRMAN. What do you mean by et cetera, et cetera?
Turnover to the Bangladesh Bank the abandoned funds should not be
interpreted or construed directly or indirectly as an admission of
Whats EHLCL?
MS. ABAD. Eastern Hawaii Leisure Company, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Or Kam Sin Wong of any guilt. Okay,
thats fine. Or complicity.
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So what does this mean then, this receipt. Its just a receipt,
thats it.
MS. ABAD. Yes, its just an acknowledgment of receipt, Your
Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. So it cannot be construed as a turnover of
funds to the Bangladesh government?
MS. ABAD. Although effectively, Your Honor, the Bangladesh
government through the Honorable Ambassador has-THE CHAIRMAN. Signed.
MS. ABAD. Since he signed the acknowledgment receipt,
effectively the money has been turned over to the Bangladesh
government, Your Honor.
THE CHAIRMAN. I see.
MS. ABAD. He acknowledged receipt also.
THE CHAIRMAN. So youre saying it has been turned over
although the possession is still with you?
THE CHAIRMAN. Physical possession is still with you.
MS. ABAD. Physical possession is still with us.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.
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SEN. ENRILE. Mr. Chairman.

THE CHAIRMAN. Mr. Senator Minority Floor Leader.
SEN. ENRILE. Mr. Chairman, we recognize that Bangladesh is
the claimant of this money. Theres no question about it. But the point
is that this money is within the jurisdiction of the Philippines subject to
its laws. And we must follow the laws of the country. Well have to go
through the process embodied in the laws so that the government can
turn over this money to the government of Bangladesh. We cannot
perform the function of a judge here, we are legislators.
THE CHAIRMAN. All right, that is well-taken.
At any rate, we leave it up to AMLC. Youve heard all the
discussions on this point and we leave it up to AMLC to make the
necessary proper legal steps.
THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.
MR. FERRER. Mr. Chairman, may I be excused?
SEN. ENRILE. I have no question, Mr. Chairman.
You know, we have been discussing this whole thing here and I
was observing the witnesses that we heard this morning, about their
demeanor and their body language in testifying here because all of
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these things will be based on credibility of witnesses. Nobody will

accept anything except an evaluation by a judge whoever that be, to
determine who is telling the truth. And that is what I was doing this
morning. Common sense will tell me that somebody is lying here. I will
not identify that. But in due time when we discuss the committee
report, Ill tell you who that person is.
Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN. Thank you for that statement, Senator Enrile.
Okay then. Since there are no more questions from anyone, the
hearing is for next Tuesday, April 12 at 10:30 in the morning.
Thank you, everyone.
[THE HEARING ENDED AT 3:30 P.M.]
213

TRANSCRIPT: 4th Public Hearing of The Senate Blue Ribbon Committee On The $81-M Money Laundering Case

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TRANSCRIPT: 4th Public Hearing of The Senate Blue Ribbon Committee On The $81-M Money Laundering Case

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Republic of the Philippines

CONGRESS OF THE PHILIPPINES

Tuesday, April 5, 2016

TEOFISTO L. GUINGONA III - Chairman

Deputy Governor, Bangko

COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS

Mr. Nelson M. Aspe

COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS

Ms. Salud Bautista

President, Philrem Service

COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS

Ms. Kathreena D. Tam

Atty. Agapito Rene S. Conchu

Atty. Sarah Lou Y. Arriola

Ms. Josephine DG Herrera

Ms. Susan M. Chua

Atty. Fritzie Jane A. Aduna

Director General, Blue Ribbon

COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS

Ms. Helen S. Gayapa

(For complete list, please see attached Attendance Sheet.)

COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS AND

AT 11:34 A.M., HON. TEOFISTO L. GUINGONA III,

This hearing is called to order.

Good morning, everyone.

We also have Senator Ralph Rectogood

morning, everyone from the BIR.

member of the AMLC, Commissioner Manuel Gaitegood morning, sir.

COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS AND

AMLC secretary, executive director, Ms. Julia Bacay-Abadmaam,

There is a red light, that

means you can talk; then, press again.

morning, maam; Reymart Marbella; Romualdo Agarrado; and Pinky

COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS AND

morning; Philrem, Ms. Salud Bautista and Michael Bautistagood

Good morning, sir.

morning, sir; and Mr. Kim Wonggood morning, sir.

We will give you

Those who are here for the first time, kindly

stand and raise your right hand.

COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS AND

Okay. Thank you.

At this point, we would also like to recognize the presence of the

The Bangladesh Financial

Intelligence Unit, which I suppose is the counterpart of our AMLC, Mr.

COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS AND

You said in your last hearingang sabi niyo

sa past hearing na mayroon ka pang 450 na willing pang ibalik po,

At sa diyaryo ngayon, nakalagay na ibabalik niyo po

iyong 450willing kayo na ibalik iyong 450 million?

Opo, sir. Nagpagawa po ako promissory note po,

within 15 to 30 days kasi mangungutang pa ako sa mga kaibigan ko,

Opo. Ito po iyong promissory note, isa-isubmit ko

po sa Committee niyo po.

Okay. So, within 15 to 30 days, maibabalik

mo na iyong 450 million?

Opo, sir. May word of honor po ako.

So, good as cash na iyan, hindi iyan dead

Cash po, ibibigay ko po.

COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS AND

Thank you very much.

Okay. Today, I would like to start off with the Philrem.

And I think you have a lot of