--omment replyThe best response you'll see to the Virginia shooting, and an

answer to why God allows good people to suffer and even die unjustly
from Jedinak8413 via /r/Catholic/ sent 9 hours ago
show parent
America was not founded on religion. Honestly how can you say that? The
first amendment protects a persons right to practice religion, no specific
religion mind you. Its also clear that religion shouldn't interfere or have any
bearing on issues of government. How do you draw the conclusion that
America was founded on religion?
contextfull comments (32)reportmark unreadreply
cantenucci04[S] 1 point just now
There are countless examples of the evidence that we weren't just founded
on religion in general, but specifically the Christian
religion . . .http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2009/05/07/obama-iswrong-when-he-says-were-not-a-judeo-christian-nation
From our money, to our pledge of allegiance, to our courthouses, all have
references to the God of the Bible. That's why we make politicians for every
office in the country swear on the Bible when they take office, including the
President.
All of our presidents recognized this except our current one: "To those who
feel we have ceased to be a Judeo-Christian nation, I would invite them to
reexamine these principles and read H.Res.397, America's Spiritual Heritage
Resolution, which chronicles some of the highlights of our nation's spiritual
historical milestones and establishes a week for Americans to remember and
reflect on these principles. If they do, I believe they will conclude as President
Dwight Eisenhower did that, "Without God, there could be no American form
of Government, nor an American way of life. Recognition of the Supreme
Being is the firstthe most basicexpression of Americanism. Thus the
Founding Fathers saw it, and thus, with God's help, it will continue to be."
The point of the first amendment was to make sure every citizen had the
right to practice his or her religion as they saw fit, and in public, because the
first colonists came to america to escape religious persecution in England.
But they didn't want to establish a state-sponsored religion, which was what
they had back there. That's a critical distinction to make. They wanted
America to be a religious country, just not a theocracy.
That doesn't mean religion and spiritual matters won't influence gov't officials
and vice versa, it just means that the state can't favor one religion over the
other, that's what the "establishment" of religion meant.
There is plenty of research to back this up:
http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/2011/06/did-america-have-achristian-founding
Don't take my word on it, read the quotes of the founders themselves as
well . . .http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=8755

comment replyThe best response you'll see to the Virginia shooting, and an
answer to why God allows good people to suffer and even die unjustly
from Jedinak8413 via /r/Catholic/ sent 11 hours ago
show parent
All of the quotes from the founding fathers you provided prove that they were
christian, yes. Their beliefs are there own, and as they wished played no part
in the wording of the Constitution or the first amendment.
http://www.liberalamerica.org/2014/10/27/88-founding-father-quotes-that-willenrage-the-religious-right/
This article is written by a Christian by the way. As for the pledge of
allegiance it wasn't until 1954 that the words 'under god' were added in cas e
you weren't aware.
Do you believe christianity should be allowed to play a part in politics and
law?
contextfull comments (34)reportmark unreadreply
cantenucci04[S] 1 point just now
The quotes I provided don't just prove they were Christian, they specifically
show that the founders wanted us to be a Christian nation.
As I said, that's why they made the first amendment the first, cause religious
freedom was paramount to them. That's why the Declaration of
Independence says we have "inalienable rights that come from our Creator".
They made sure to spell that out for us.
I'm aware of when those words were added into the pledge and that was my
point, they were added because our president knew that we were a Christian
nation and wanted to put those words into the pledge.
I believe that each politician should be elected based on their record,
experience, character, and qualifications for the office they seek. Their faith
certainly plays a role in that.
A politician's faith should guide him in what he does if he truly believes, just
as anyone else's belief system should guide them to pass laws while in office.
If voters don't like the laws they vote for and pass, they can choose not to reelect them, that's what's so great about our system of gov't.
I checked the link you provided. It's written by a progressive Christian, which
isn't the same as a traditional, practicing Christian. They pick and choose
which teachings of the church they wanna follow. In Catholicism we call them
cafeteria Catholics. They worship in the church of progressive politics, not
Christianity.
What that Christian fails to understand is that the founders did indeed want a
separation of Church and state, the key word there being Church with a
capital C. That just goes back to what I said in my last comment, which is that
they didn't want to establish a state religion, like they had in England. But
they did want their gov't to be influenced by Christianity and for their elected
leaders to express and practice their faith in public and in their official
capacity in the gov't.
They never said they wanted a separation of God and state, or "church" and
state.
"Our U.S. Constitution was founded on Biblical principles and it was the
intention of the authors for this to be a Christian nation. The Constitution had

55 people work upon it, of which 52 were evangelical Christians.(3) We can

go back in history and look at what the founding fathers wrote to know where
they were getting their ideas. This is exactly what two professors did. Donald
Lutz and Charles Hyneman reviewed an estimated 15,000 items with explicit
political content printed between 1760 and 1805 and from these items they
identified 3,154 references to other sources. The source they most often
quoted was the Bible, accounting for 34% of all citations. Sixty percent of all
quotes came from men who used the Bible to form their conclusions. That
means that 94% of all quotes by the founding fathers were based on the
Bible. The founding fathers took ideas from the Bible and incorporated them
into our government. "
https://www.tgm.org/mythofseparation.html
If the founders wanted a separation of all religion from our gov't, why would
they pass laws that not only allowed the Bible and Christianity to be taught in
public schools, but mandated it?
In 1890 the Supreme Court ruled that America is a religious people. . . . this
is a Christian nation as such it is fitting that its people would teach their
children the Christian faith. (The Trinity Case)
"The American Teachers Union declare that schools should continue to teach
morals from the Bible as schools are turned over to the various States from
the Christian Churches. Prior to this many schools had been run by churches
of various denominations. Many state Constitution's mandate the teaching of
morals, religion and knowledge."
"Of the first 108 colleges and universities founded in America, 106 where
founded as Christian schools. Of the first 126 colleges, 123 were Christian.
1900
Virtually all school text books published to date have contained Biblical
references or teachings."
All this makes it clear that we were and still are a Christian nation, the
Christian faith is inseparable from our gov't, cause that's how the founders
intended it to be.

comment replyLawbreaker Kim Davis and the lawless Ted Cruz "Now Cruz,
who took an oath of office to 'support and defend the Constitution,' wants
people to defy the Supreme Courts authority? Who is the lawless one?"
from CreatrixAnima via /r/politics/ sent 2 hours ago
show parent
Our congress unanimously signed a treaty in 1797 stating that the USA was
in no way founded as a Christian nation. We have freedom of religion in this
country, therefore your religious doctrines, whatever they may be, have
absolutely no standing to prevent two consenting adults from entering into a
civil contract, even if that contract has the popular nomenclature "marriage."
And in case you don't believe me, the SCOTUS does.
contextfull comments (2246)reportmark unreadreply

cantenucci04 1 point just now

Your first sentence is simply not true. The founders wanted to make sure that
there was a separation of Church and state, and by that they meant that they
didn't want the gov't to endorse a particular denomination of the Christian
faith, which is what they fled from in England in the first place. But they made
it very clear in their writings and in our official documents that they didn't
want any kind of separation of God and State, and the God they worshiped
was the Christian God of the Bible.
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2009/05/07/obama-is-wrong-whenhe-says-were-not-a-judeo-christian-nation
There's plenty of research to back this up:
http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/2011/06/did-america-have-achristian-founding
Also, read the words of the founders themselves if you don't believe me:
http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=8755
You're correct that as of right now, religious doctrines can't prevent two
adults from entering into a contract, but that was only very recent in our
history, and can be changed back either with a constitutional amendment, or
by a new supreme court ruling, both of which could happen if a republican is
elected as president. The supreme court may rule on something, but that
ruling is in no way permanent, and it was never intended to be that way,
that's why the founders set up 3 branches of gov't, cause if one branch gets a
law wrong, in this case the judicial branch, then one of the other branches
can undo their unconstitutional ruling or legislation. That's the beauty of the
american system.

[]CreatrixAnima 2 points 3 days ago

Our congress unanimously signed a treaty in 1797 stating that the USA was
in no way founded as a Christian nation. We have freedom of religion in this
country, therefore your religious doctrines, whatever they may be, have
absolutely no standing to prevent two consenting adults from entering into a
civil contract, even if that contract has the popular nomenclature "marriage."
And in case you don't believe me, the SCOTUS does.
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[]cantenucci04 0 points 2 days ago
Your first sentence is simply not true. The founders wanted to make sure that
there was a separation of Church and state, and by that they meant that they
didn't want the gov't to endorse a particular denomination of the Christian
faith, which is what they fled from in England in the first place. But they made
it very clear in their writings and in our official documents that they didn't
want any kind of separation of God and State, and the God they worshiped
was the Christian God of the Bible.
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2009/05/07/obama-is-wrong-whenhe-says-were-not-a-judeo-christian-nation
There's plenty of research to back this up:

http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/2011/06/did-america-have-achristian-founding
Also, read the words of the founders themselves if you don't believe me:
http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=8755
You're correct that as of right now, religious doctrines can't prevent two
adults from entering into a contract, but that was only very recent in our
history, and can be changed back either with a constitutional amendment, or
by a new supreme court ruling, both of which could happen if a republican is
elected as president. The supreme court may rule on something, but that
ruling is in no way permanent, and it was never intended to be that way,
that's why the founders set up 3 branches of gov't, cause if one branch gets a
law wrong, in this case the judicial branch, then one of the other branches
can undo their unconstitutional ruling or legislation. That's the beauty of the
american system.
permalinkembedsaveparenteditdisable inbox repliesdeleteREPLY
[]CreatrixAnima 2 points 2 days ago
Not true? Our congress, in 1797, unanimously signed a treaty - the Treaty of
Tripoli - with the followiing words:
Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any
sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of
enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and
as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any
Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no
pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of
the harmony existing between the two countries.
It does not get any more clear.
cantenucci04 1 point a minute ago
Actually you ignored the context of that treaty, which was a treaty between
Muslim nations and America, which was and is a Christian nation.
What you fail to distinguish, either intentionally or not, and what the founders
did distinguish, is that we are in fact a Christian nation, but not a Christian
government.
So you're actually making my previous point for me, which was that the
founders always believed in a separation of Church and State, not a
separation of God and State. We aren't a theocracy like Iran is, and the
founders never wanted us to be one because that's what they escaped in
England. But that doesn't mean they wanted religion to play no role in gov't
or public life. To the contrary, they wanted it to play a central role, which is
why it's on our money, why it's found all throughout our founding documents,
and why they mandated that the Bible be taught in public schools.
The Treaty of Tripoli simply reinforces this
point . . . .http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=125
They were referring to the federal gov't, not the state and local gov'ts, which
were free to promote religion as much as they wanted, and which they did.
The Treaty was referring to the idea of creating America as a Christian nation
whose purpose would be to fight Muslims around the world and to be a

theocracy the way Spain was during the Crusades. Of course we all know the
founders didn't want this, they wanted a constitutional republic where
religions of all kinds were freely practiced, but where none were established
by the State as the official State religion that dominated everything else.
" It would also be absurd to suggest that President Adams (under whom the
treaty was ratified in 1797) would have endorsed or assented to any provision
which repudiated Christianity. In fact, while discussing the Barbary conflict
with Jefferson, Adams declared: The policy of Christendom has made cowards
of all their sailors before the standard of Mahomet. It would be heroical and
glorious in us to restore courage to ours. 25 Furthermore, it was Adams who
declared: The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence
were. . . . the general principles of Christianity. . . . I will avow that I then
believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as
eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those
principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature."
Also, I noticed that you ignored all the quotes and info I sent in my last
comment proving that the founders were men of faith who intended for us to
be a Christian nation.
Where are all the quotes and documents proving that the founders
specifically did NOT want this to be a Christian nation? There are none.