Transcript of Interview with Mr. Carlos A.

Schwantes

Interviewer:
In the busy era of the railroad,from the first transcontinental in 1869 to the early 1900s, to what
extent did the railroads connect the country? Would you say they were a decisive factor in really
bring people to discover the West?

Carlos Schwantes:
My definition of transportation is that transportation is the great enabler. Without it, it would be
difficult to move goods and especially people. The first transcontinental in the United States was
completed in 1869, which was a landmark event in the nations history. Prior to that year, it took
nearly a month to go from the east coast to the west coast. For example, California became a
state in 1850 and it had very poor communication with the rest of the country. There was no state
between California and Missouri for many years and transportation was very very slow and
difficult. When the railroad opened, suddenly the world changed. You could go from one coast to
the other in 5 days instead of 28-30 years. And you could get goods that were unavailable before
that because they werent worth shipping. To demonstrate the power of the railroads, one of the
things they first shipped was a carload of oysters from Chesapeake Bay in Maryland all the way
to Washington territory. The railroad really did make it possible to open up much of the
American west. With the exception of the coast, for instance San Francisco & San Diego, which
had steam ships that connected the cities before the railroad, most of the west whether youre
talking about Denver, or Phoenix, or Salt Lake City, really didnt have great transportation
connections until the coming of the railroad until the late 1860s and 70s.

Interviewer:
Considering the extent of railroad advertisement for the west, do you believe the railroad was
effective in bringing in tourists to explore the land?

Carlos Schwantes:

Oh definitely. The railroad advertised the American west more than any other institution, that
including state and federal government. The railroads printed hundreds of thousands of
pamphlets on all different aspects of the west. Not just tourism but settlement of the west, things
like Make your home in Montana or Make your home Western Texas. I have collected as
many as these brochures as I could get my hands on and there are thousands of them! My
basement is full of them. All different brochures of the railroad issued for the national parks, and
visiting places like Salt Lake City or San Francisco. It was just endless! They had major
publication programs, all of the railroads in the west.

Interviewer:
What were some key attractions for passengers & travelers?

Carlos Schwantes:
Just seeing the land was a big attraction. For many yearsearly onit was the wild life. You
could take the train across Nebraska and if you were fortunate you could see great herds of
buffalo. People didnt always appreciate the majesty of what they were seeing. Some people
brought guns along and were shooting wildlife whether, it was buffalo or prairie dogs or
antelope. Even now if you take the train across Wyoming youll likely see antelope. But buffalo
virtually disappeared except for a few hundred. For many passengers it was seeing the land itself,
seeing the wildlife (which was once incredibly abundant) and visiting new places. Yellowstone
was a very popular attraction because it was so different with its hot springs and bubbling mud
and geysers. The railroads really were responsible for the creation of many of our national parks,
Yellowstone being the first national park. The northern Pacific Railroad issued, oh countless
brochures promoting tourism to Yellowstone National Park. There is a book on this, by the way, I
can recommend to you. Its called Trains of Discovery by Al Runte.

Interviewer:

This years National History Day theme deals with the three intertwining topics of exploration,
exchange, and encounter. In your opinion, were there any beneficial encounters that the railroad
was able to bring to people? Were there less fortunate encounters?

Carlos Schwantes:
I think it worked both ways. Some of the encounters included just seeing the vastness of the land
from the train window. The Great Plains in Kansas and Nebraska were also exciting to many
people. As for encounter with people, that was not always a positive experience for the Native
Americans. I dont think the trains really benefited them much because they were already home.
People can take the train to wherever home was, whether it be Washington or New York, but for
the Native Americans home was already where they were. There was no need for them to use the
railroads. In many cases, the numbers of people moving into places such as Montana forced the
opening of reservations for Natives. It was not beneficial for the Native people because they had
lived thousands of years where they were and survived with nature and the buffalo. They gained
nothing from the promotion of tourism and exploration.

Interviewer:
In my ongoing research, I see that the history of Native Americans is often connected to that of
the railroads. How did the railroad bring increased conflict between Native people & travelers or
passengers on railroads?

Carlos Schwantes:
One of them was pressure to open up land that had been previously reserved for Native
Americans. There was opening of various reservations to non-Native settlers. There was one
illustration that I came across that shows a Native American lying on the ground looking over a
cliff. The railway line almost looks like it is pressing down on him as an individual. These
illustrations from the time captured the unfortunate consequences for the Native Americans. The
term that used to be used was called the winning of the West, as in the railroads were

instrumental in winning the west. That concept only works if you ignore the Indians because it
was not a winning situation that the railroad brought to the Indians. For them it was more like the
losing of the west.

Interviewer:
In regards to economic exchange, do you believe the railroad was an irreplaceable factor in
developing the American economy?

Yes, I do, for several reasons. First of all, the Americans fell in love with the railroad to an extent
that they built more railway lines than any other country. Americans built, now you can check the
statistics, a total of around of 250,000 miles of railway at its peak. This stimulated the economy
for several reasons. It stimulated the iron and steel industry which in turn stimulated the coal
industry. It made possible what economists called the national market where you could have a
factory in Chicago that produced goods and the railroad could distribute them to Florida or
California or Oregon. So there was a gigantic common market. Now people speak of the
common market that developed in Europe fairly recently, but the United States had one of the
greatest common markets in the world. We had excellent transportation so our commerce could
benefit from that. For example, Sears and Roebuck had a gigantic presence in Chicago and they
would issue catalogs and Americans could order from Sears and Roebuck all sorts of things. You
could order houses, and they would come in pieces and customers would put them together. If
you look on Google Images you could find the Sears and Roebuck houses were quite popular and
they were made possible by railroad transportation. You could craft these houses piece by piece
and have them shipped to somewhere in the US and people would put them up. These homes
were made possible by the railroad. The railroad had a tremendous impact on bringing people
together with a variety of consumer goods including houses and automobiles. Many automobiles
were originally transported not by trucks but by railroads.