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EfficiencyofGasTurbine

EfficiencyofGasTurbine
howtocalculatethepowerinMWthatdrivesthecompressor...
ByAyed on16January,20115:59am
IwouldliketoinquiretohowIcancalculatethepowerinMWthatdrivesthecompressor.Asweknowtheefficiencyofgasturbineisabout25%.
Ididsomecalculationwhichisasfollows:
Iftheefficiencyis100%andGTefficiency25%thatmeans25%isequalto60MW75%isequalto180MW(loses).
This180MWisthepowerthatdrivestheGasturbinecompressor.
Pleasetheanswershouldprovidedwithformula.

ByCSA
on17January,20118:53pm
1outof1membersthoughtthispostwashelpful...
Ayed,
Yourquestionssurecoverthegambit!
TheefficiencyofmostGEdesignheavydutygasturbines*insimplecycleapplication*(i.e,withoutawasteheatrecoveryboiler(orheatrecoverysteamgenerator)
intheexhaustisapproximately3235%atBaseLoadinnewandcleanconditionatnameplateratedconditions(ambientpressure,ambienttemperature,ambient
humidity).
Newandcleanconditionimpliescleanturbineinletairfilters,cleanaxialcompressorbellmouthandIGVs,cleanaxialcompressorwithoutexcessiveclearances,hot
gaspathpartsequaltonewspecificationsincludingcombustionliners,transitionpieces,turbinenozzles,turbinebuckets,andanexhaustductbackpressurewithin
designspecifications).ItalsoimpliesfuelwiththeexpectedcharacteristicsasdefinedinSect.05oftheControlSpecificationdrawing.Andlastly,itimpliesthe
IGVLVDTshavebeenproperlycalibrated,thecompressordischargepressuretransmitter(s)areproperlycalibrated,andtheexhaustT/Csandwiringareproperly
installedandareallworkingproperlywithaminimalexhausttemperaturespreadatBaseLoad.
So,thismeansthatforroughlyeverthreehorsepowerdevelopedbytheturbinesectionwhileoperatingatBaseLoadinanewandcleanconditionthattwo
horsepowerarerequiredtodrivetheaxialcompressor.That'saprettygoodruleofthumb.
Idon'tbelieveI'veeverseenformulaeoutsideofcomputersatGEEngineeringthatcanaccuratelycalculatetheamountofenergybeingconsumedbythe
compressoratagivenoperationcondition.I'msuretherearecompaniessellingsoftwarethatcanperformthesecalculationsbasedonestimatesofcompressor
efficienciesandsuch,butwithoutalotofinstrumentationthat'snotnormallyinstalledonacompressorandturbineandwithoutintimateknowledgeofthedesign
parametersofthecompressoritwouldbeverydifficulttocomeupwithanexactfigure.
3235%efficiencyisbetterthanmanyfossilfuelfiredboilers(coaloroilornaturalgas)canachieveontheirbestdayduringinitialoperation.And,ifagasturbine
isoperatedincombinedcyclemode,usingtheexhaustheattoproducesteamtodriveasteamturbine,well,efficienciesofmorethan55%andcloseto60%arenow
beingachievedfortheentirecycle.Theruleofthumbforcombinedcyclepowerplantsisthatyouwillbeabletoproduceapproximately0.5MWwithasteam
turbineforeveryMWproducedbythegasturbine,forthesamefuelflowrate(presumingnoextractions).Andthat'smuchbetterthananyfossilfuelfiredboiler
andturbinecouldeverhopetoachieve,withfeweremissionsinmanycases,aswell(gottagetthatgreenaspectinthere!).
Again,thereareprobablysomepeoplesomewherewhocouldgiveyousomeformulaethatcouldcalculateitdowntotheseconddecimalplace,butitwillstilllikely
beanestimatebasedonassumptions,andwouldfallintherangedescribedabove(+/1%).
Youneedsomethingmorethanthat,youbetterstarttalkingtosomepowerplantdesignersandarchitect/engineeringfirms.

ByProcessValue
on19January,20116:01am
1outof1membersthoughtthispostwashelpful...
Efficiencyofthegasturbine
Thetotalenergybalanceinagasturbinecanbesummarizedas
Totalenergyinput=Compressorload+Generatorpoweroutput+Fluegasenergyloss+rotationallosses
withtheexceptionoftherotationallossesallotherscanbecalculatedinaeasymanner,whatyouneedisthefollowinginformation.
1.Calorificvalueofthefuel(kcal/kg)
2.Massflowrateofthefuel(kg/sort/hr)(ifonlythevolumeflowisavailablethenyouneedtoknowthedensityofthefuel)
3.airflowintotheturbine(thisistrickymostofthesitesdonothaveaairflowmeter,youhavetogetitfromthecharacteristicgraphswhichGEprovides,you
canalsogetthevalueformthesiteacceptancetestortheperformanceguaranteetestdoneatcommissioning)
ifyouhaveaHRSG,whichyouprobablywillhavethenyoucancalculatetheefficiencyoftheHRSGandalsothecombinedefficientofthetotalcogeneration
powerplant,forthisyouneedtheadditionaldata
Noteidonotknowthelayoutofyourplantoritsoperatingnature,iamassumingthatthesteamusedfordeaerationisgotfromtheplantitselfandCPHif
presentisinsidetheHRSGitself.youneedtoworkoutthedetailsyourself,iamgivingthecalculationsforaselfsustainingplant.ieittakesonlywateratroom
tempandfuelandgivesoutpowerandsteam.Theplantaxillaryconsumptionwhichwillbearound24%oftheplantfullloadisneglectedinthecalculation.
mainlybecauseidonothavesufficientdata.
Thebasicequationsforthecalculationare
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ForGT
Efficiency=860*MWoutput(MwHr)/(fuelflow(kg)*calorificvalueoffuel(inkcal/kg))
thisisthebaseformulawherefuelflowisnormallyavailableinM3whichyouhavetoconverttomasswiththeknowndensity.
forHRSG
efficiency(overall)=steamflowrate*enthalpyofsteam/(HRSGinlettemp*0.25*airflowrate)
efficiency(heatexchanger)=steamflowrate*enthalpyofsteam/((HRSGinlettempHRSGoutlettemp)*0.25*airflowrate)
thecombinedefficiencyofthecogenerationisgivenby
efficiency=((860*MWoutput(MwHr))+steamflowrate*enthalpyofsteam)/(fuelflow(kg)*calorificvalueoffuel(inkcal/kg))
samplecalculation
Iamnowinaframe5site,soiamtakingthedailyproductionreadingsfromhere.thevaluesatyoursitewillbedifferent
Napthaconsumption=192m3
Powergeneration=379Mwhr
Averagepowergeneration/hr=15.8MW
Calorificvalueofnaptha=11250kcal/kg
Napthadensity=0.7
theHRSGisatwindrumandproducestwodifferentsteamvaritiesoneaVHPsteamat48Kg/cm2and435degandotherMPsteamat18kg/cm2at245deg
EnthalpyofVHPsteam=785kcal/kg
EnthalpyofIPsteam=692kcal/kg
VHPsteamproduction=805tonnes
averagesteamproduction/hr=33.5t/hr
MPsteamproduction=99tonnes
averageMPsteamproduction/hr=4.12t/hr
HRSGinlettemperature=averageGTexhausttemp
=490deg
HRSGoutlettemperature=averagestacktemperature
=140deg
ambienttemperature=32deg

airflowratetheairflowforaframe5machineatsitecondition(32degambient)is408tonnesat85degIGVopening,asthemachinewasputincogenc
so
GTefficiency=(860*379*100)/(192*0.7*11250)
=21.57%
HRSGefficiency(overall)=((33.5*(78530))+(4.12*(69230)))/(490*0.25*364)(herestacklossesaretakenintoaccount)
=62.83%
HRSGefficiency(heatexchanger)=((33.5*(78530))+(4.12*(69230)))/((490140)*0.25*364)(herestacklosssesnottakenintoaccount)
=88%
overallcogenerationefficiency
=(860*379)+((805*(78530))+(99*(69230)))/(192*0.7*11250)
=67%

ByAyed on19January,20117:57am
iamstillnotgethowicancalculatethepowerthatdrivesthecompressor.
ineedtheequation.
notethatwehaveHRSGandthecapacityis118tons
bestregards...........

ByCSA

on19January,20113:24pm

Ayed,
Withoutbeingabletomeasuretheairflowthroughthecompressor,thebestyou'regoingtobeabletodoisestimatetheamountofworkbeingdonebythe
compressor.
AndthesizeoftheHRSGisn'tgoingtoaffectthecompressorload,either.

ByCSA

on19January,20118:03am

>Efficiencyofthegasturbine
>
>Thetotalenergybalanceinagas
>turbinecanbesummarizedas
>
>Totalenergyinput=Compressorload+
>Generatorpoweroutput+Fluegasenergy
>loss+rotationallosses
>
>withtheexceptionoftherotational
>lossesallotherscanbecalculatedina
>easymanner,whatyouneedisthe
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>followinginformation.
>
>1.Calorificvalueofthefuel
>(kcal/kg)
>
>2.Massflowrateofthefuel(kg/sor
>t/hr)(ifonlythevolumeflowis
>availablethenyouneedtoknowthe
>densityofthefuel)
>
>3.airflowintotheturbine(thisis
>trickymostofthesitesdonothavea
>airflowmeter,youhavetogetitfrom
>thecharacteristicgraphswhichGE
>provides,youcanalsogetthevalue
>formthesiteacceptancetestorthe
>performanceguaranteetestdoneat
>commissioning)
Andthenthisjustfallsapart.Inthecalculations,nowheredoesitmentionthecompressorloadorprovideanyindicationofasamplevalueforrotationallosses.
There'snomentionofairfloworhowthevalue860cameintotheformulanorwhatitrepresents.
Justdoingaquicksearchofwikipedia.org,morethanonearticlesuggeststhethermalefficiencyofsimplecyclegasturbinesisapproximately3040%,andthat
combinedcyclegasturbineefficienciesareashighas60%.GEusedtomarketoneoftheiraeroderivativepackagesasa"4040"machinebecauseithad40%
thermalefficiencyfor40MW,andthat'sdarnedhighforasimplecyclemachine(thathadtohaveinletcoolingtoachievethe4040moniker).
But,ProcessValueneedstopatenttheplantathissite,andquick.Becauseathermalefficiencyof67%isexceptional.
Andunrealistic.ParticularlyiftheFrame5isonlyputtingoutanaverageof15.8MWperhour,whichisverylowiftheunitisoperatingatBaseLoad,whichis
whentheefficiencywouldbehighestandwhenmostperformanceguaranteetestsarerun.AndevenmoreunrealisticiftheGTefficiencyisonly21.57%.

ByAshwinon30October,20125:02pm
pleaseletmeknowthefactor0.25whichhasbeentakentocalculateHRSGefficiencyandalsowhytheenthalpieshavebeensubstractedby30?
Ashwin

ByBrianFreemanon12April,20139:10pm
fromwhatIunderstand...
MW=(J/s)*3600(s/hr)=3600(J/hr)=>MWhr=3600J
LetssayMWhr/kgvalueofnaptha=10,000thenyourequationshouldread(therewasaparenthesesmisplacedinyourequation,whatyouwrotewasactually
equalto325940):
overallcogenerationefficiency
>=((860*379)
>+(805*(78530))+(99*(69230)
>))/(192*0.7*10,000)
>=74%

whatdoyouthink?

Byasaf777 on2May,20136:23pm
hidear"ProcessValue"..
howugotthesevalues?
>EnthalpyofVHPsteam=785kcal/kg
>EnthalpyofIPsteam=692kcal/kg
anytable?
bestregards

ByProcessValue

on19January,201111:31am

Ikindaforgottoaddthissmallbitinthecalculationabove
EnergybalanceinGasturbine
inletambientair=25deg
cdp=6.8kg/cm2
ctd=302deg
exhaust=507deg

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fuelinput=1.7kg/s
calorificvalueofnaptha=11250kcal/kg
densityofnaptha=0.71
power=16MW
airflowintotheturbine=360t/hr
specificheatcapacityofair=0.25kcal/kgdeg
inputenergyintotheturbine=fuelinput+airinput
fuelinput=1.7*3.6*11250*(1000)kcal
=68850Mcal
airinput=360*0.25*302
=27180Mcal
totalenergyinputtotheturbine=96030Mcal

poweroutputfromthegenerator=16*860
=13760Mcal
fluegaslosses=(360+1.6*3.6)*0.25*507
=46390Mcal

compressorloadandrotationallosses=96030(46390+13760)
=9603060150
=35880Mcal
thisequatedintermsofpower=35880/860
=41MW

thecompressorloaddoesnotchangemuchwiththeloadingofthemachine,youwillseethatfora20MWgasturbine,thecompressorloadisabout40MW.
AndCSA,areyousureabout3035%efficiencies??tothebestofmyknowledgeGTsimplecycleefficienciesdoesnotexceed25+/2%.

ByCSA

on19January,20113:04pm

Let'ssee,ifthetotalpowerproducedbythegasturbineinyourexampleis60MW(20MWgeneratoroutput+40MWcompressorload),thenisn't20MW(the
outputratingofthegasturbine)1/3(33%)of60MW?So,roughlytwoofeverythreehorsepowerproducedbythegasturbineareusedtodrivethecompressor,
andonlyoneofeverythreehorsepowerisavailabletodrivethegenerator?
Lastly,compressorloadvarieswithIGVangle.
It'skindaironicthatthefortuneatthebottomofthecontrol.compagewhenIreadthispostwas:
Speedisasubsttituteforaccurancy.

ByProcessValue
on19January,201111:23pm
1outof1membersthoughtthispostwashelpful...
Quiriesandanswers:)
Quiery1
"Andthenthisjustfallsapart.Inthecalculations,nowheredoesitmentionthecompressorloadorprovideanyindicationofasamplevalueforrotational
losses.There'snomentionofairfloworhowthevalue860cameintotheformulanorwhatitrepresents."
ok,ikindaassumedthatpeoplewillbefamiliarwiththejoulesconstant,powerenergyequivalencynowihavetoderivetheformulasaswelliguess.well
heregoes
Powerenergyequivalents
1kilowatt(KW)=1kilojoule/sec
1kilowattsec(Kws)=1kilojoule
convertingsectohours,asKwHristhestandardforelectricalenergymeasurement
1kilowatthour(KwHr)=3600Kilojoule
nowweknow
1calorie=4.187joules,thisisthejoulesconstantso
1Kilocalorie=4.187Kilojoules
1kilojoules=0.23883Kilocalories
so
1Kilowatthour(KwHr)=3600*0.23883Kilocalories
=859.80416Kilocalories
=860kilocalories(thisisareasonableapproximation)
thisistheelectricalenergyandheatenergyequivalence.Thisishowthe860intheformulacamefrom.
Efficiencyofthegasturbine
efficiencyoftheturbine=energyequivalentofgeneratorGeneratorpoweroutput/energyinputintotheturbine
energyequivalentofgeneratorGeneratorpoweroutput=860*KwHr
energyinputintotheturbine=Calorificvalueofthefuel(Kcal/kg)*fuelflow(Kg/hr)
=860*Kwhr/Calorificvalueofthefuel(Kcal/kg)*fuelflow(Kg/hr)

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nowmultiplyingboththenumeratoranddenominatorbythousand
=860*Kwhr*1000/Calorificvalueofthefuel(Kcal/kg)*fuelflow(Kg/hr)*1000
thisconvertstheKwHrtoMwHrandkg/hrtot/hr
=860*Mwhr/calorificvalueofthefuel(Kcal/kg)*fuelflow(t/hr)
sothisishowtheenergyefficiencyofthegasturbineisderived.
iamalsoderivingaformulaforheatrateoftheturbinetotheefficiency

heatrateoftheturbineisdefinedastheTheratiooffuelenergyinputasheatperunitofnetworkoutput.ItisexpressedmostlyinBtu/Kwhrorinkj
/Kwhr.IamnotafanofBtu,butiamaardentfanofSIunits:)soiwillderivetheequationhereinSiunits.
Heatrate=Kj/Kwhr
Efficiency=KwHr*3600/Kj
Efficiency=3600/(kj/kwhr)
efficiency=3600/Heatrate
asfarastherotationalandcompressorloadsareconcernedihavegiventhecalculationinthenextpost.Pleasegothroughit.

...........................................................................................................................................
Quiery2
"Justdoingaquicksearchofwikipedia.org,morethanonearticlesuggeststhethermalefficiencyofsimplecyclegasturbinesisapproximately3040%,and
thatcombinedcyclegasturbineefficienciesareashighas60%.GEusedtomarketoneoftheiraeroderivativepackagesasa"4040"machinebecauseithad
40%thermalefficiencyfor40MW,andthat'sdarnedhighforasimplecyclemachine(thathadtohaveinletcoolingtoachievethe4040moniker).
But,ProcessValueneedstopatenttheplantathissite,andquick.Becauseathermalefficiencyof67%isexceptional.
Andunrealistic.ParticularlyiftheFrame5isonlyputtingoutanaverageof15.8MWperhour,whichisverylowiftheunitisoperatingatBaseLoad,whichis
whentheefficiencywouldbehighestandwhenmostperformanceguaranteetestsarerun.AndevenmoreunrealisticiftheGTefficiencyisonly21.57%."
IdidaquicksearchthroughmyGEmanualsandicameupwiththis.Iamuploadingasmalldocument,aGEdocumentwhichhastheheatrateforitslineof
gasturbines.
http://www.2shared.com/document/VUjnzbcw/GEgasTurbine.html
heatrateforadistillatefiredframe5machineisgivenas12847kj/kwhr.fromtheefficiencytoheatrateequationderivedaboveitcalculatestoanefficiency
of28%max.thisisthefullloadefficiencyofthemachineatisoconditions,at26MW,airflowof450t/hrpressureratioof10.6etc....pleasereferthedoc.
thisisseldomachievedinreallife.Baseloadofthemachineatsiteconditionsis21.5MW,andthesupplierBHELdocgivesaassuredheatrateof3390
kcal/kwhrastheheatrate,iethebaseloadefficiencyofthemachineis25%.thusforamachinerunningatapartloadof15MWanefficiencyof22%isnot
unrealistic.itsjustthewaythemachineis.
wikipediaprovidesgoodanswers,mostofthetimeitisquiteright,but40%efficiencyiswayhigherandiwillbetontheGEmanualthanwiki.
nowthatwementionit,frame9machineseemstohavethelowestheatrateonagasfiredmachine,9930.thisequatestoaefficiencyof34%.ihavecontacted
myfriendinNTPC,hewillgivethedataonthefame9machinetheyarerunning,butheassuredmethattheygetcloseto30%efficiencyatbaseload
operation.itseemsthatthesmallermachineshaveahigherheatrateandthusalowerefficiency.machinesinrefineriesaremostlyframe6.theyalsodonotfare
well.notabove2526%.
andaboutthecycleefficiencies.Icalculatedtheefficiencyofacogenerationpowerplant,notacombinedcyclepowerplant.inacogenerationpowerplant
theplantoutputisbothpowerandsteam.inacombinedcyclepowerplanttheplantoutputispoweronly.thesteamfromtheHRSGisroutedtoasteamturbine
toproducepower.combinedcyclepowerplantshavealowerefficiencythancogenerationpowerplants.incogenerationpowerplantstheheatequivalentof
thesteamgeneratedistakenastheoutput.thisgivesthemahigherefficiencythanacombinedcyclepowerplant.
inacombinedcyclepowerplant,thesteamisusedtorunasteamturbineatthedownstreamwhichhasa30%efficiencyduetothecondenserlosses.
inacogenerationcyclepowerplantasthesteamequivalentisdirectlytaken,this70%reductioninefficiencydoesnotcomeintoplay.onlythestacklossesare
accountedfor.
thisisthereasonwhytheefficienciesofacogenerationplantishigherthanacombinedcyclepowerplant.
combinedcyclegivesefficienciesintherangeof5060%whilecogenerationsystemgiveefficiencyof7080%.theplantefficiencyshowninthecalculation
isquitelowasitwasoperatinginpartloadconditions.
Soidonotthinkineedtogoandpatentmysite,unfortunatelyitisrunningatkindalowefficiencies.allrefineriesandprocessplantswhichoperatethegas
turbineatpartloadshavethesamesituation.
Somyconcludingremarksare,mycalculationsandmatharequiteright.therearenodeviationsintheequationsorinthevaluesprovided.
andonelastthing,ijustsawCSA'spostnow
"Let'ssee,ifthetotalpowerproducedbythegasturbineinyourexampleis60MW(20MWgeneratoroutput+40MWcompressorload),thenisn't20MW
(theoutputratingofthegasturbine)1/3(33%)of60MW?So,roughlytwoofeverythreehorsepowerproducedbythegasturbineareusedtodrivethe
compressor,andonlyoneofeverythreehorsepowerisavailabletodrivethegenerator?"
wellCSAyouaretalkingaboutonlytheusefulpoweroutputfromtheturbine.(okthecompressorloadisnotgotasusefulpower,butiamtakingitasthe
workdonebytheturbine).buteveryheatengineneedstorejectoutcertainheat,ingasturbinesitisintheformoffluegases,thatshouldalsobeaccountedas
alossisitnot??
Speedisasubsttituteforaccurancy.LOL,aslongasyoucoverup/rectifyyourmistakesassoonasyoumakethem,nooneisgoingtonoticeright).just
http://control.com/thread/1295175597

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tryingtolightenuptheseriousdiscussion:)

Bykrush

on31January,201112:14am

inacombinedcyclepowerplant,thesteamisusedtorunasteamturbineatthedownstreamwhichhasa30%efficiencyduetothecondenserlosses.
Sir,pleaseexplainwhereyougotthisnumberforsteamturbineefficiency.SteamturbinesareprettygoodatextractingtheenergyfromthesteamIhaveno
referenceoffhand,butIthink75%+isnotanunheardofnumber

ByProcessValue
on31January,20117:23am
1outof1membersthoughtthispostwashelpful...
Efficiencyofthesteamturbine
Kurush,steamturbinepowerplantshaveonly30%efficiency,idonotknowfromwhereyougot75%efficiencyandall.iamgivingasamplecalculation
again.
ifyoulookattheaboveequationsyouwillseethat1MWhrisequivalentto860*1000kcalofenergy.
letussupposethatiamhavingafullycondensingturbine,withinput90Kgand500degsteamandcondenseroperatingatvacuumof0.9kg/cm2anda
dynussfractionof0.85
theenthalpyoftheinputsteamisgivenby=812kcal/kg
enthalpyofsteamgoingintothecondenserisgivenby=533kcal/kg
theheatenergyavailablefortheturbinetoconverttoworkis=812533
=280kcal/kg

theheatenergywhichgoestothecondenserislost,thisiswhatiwasreferringtothecondenserlosses.
assumingthatturbinehasnorotationalandradiationlosses,theywillbesmall,sotheycanbeneglectedyoucanseethatforproducing1MWoutputyou
willneed860/280=3.1tonnesofsteamat90kgpressureand500deg.thustheefficiencycanbecalculatedas
efficiencyofthesteamturbine=860/(3.1*812)
=34.12%

well,nowyouseethatneglectingallthelossesigetaidealsteamturbineefficiencyas34%only.ihavenottakenintoaccountthattheboilerwillbeonly
88%efficient,therewillbeextractionsteamfordeaerationetc.ifyouhaveallthedata,andifyoucalculateyouwillseethattheefficiencyofaconventional
steampowerplantisonly30%+2%.

Bykrush

on31January,20115:06pm

>Efficiencyofthesteamturbine
>
>Kurush,steamturbinepowerplants
>haveonly30%efficiency,idonotknow
>fromwhereyougot75%efficiencyand
>all.iamgivingasamplecalculation
>again.
Ididnotsayefficiencyof"steamplant"IsaidefficiencyofsteamTURBINE.

ByProcessValue
on1February,20117:07am
1outof1membersthoughtthispostwashelpful...
Icalculatedtheefficiencyofthesteamturbineonly.whichpartofitdidyounotunderstand.youhavesaidtheyouhaveasteamturbinerunningright,with
theequationsabovecalculatetheefficiencyyourselfyouwillgettoknow.
efficiencyofafullycondensingturbineisgivenby
=860*poweroutputoftheturbine/(inletsteamflow(t/hr)*enthalpyofsteamkcal/kg)
onceagainisaysteamturbineshave3035%efficiencyonly.
ifyouneedanysecondreference,isuggestyoulookintopowerplantengineeringbyblack&veatch,orPKNagorsteamplantoperationbylammersand
woodruff.itwillgiveyougoodideaabouthowtocalculatesteamturbineefficienciesandalsoaoverallideaaboutdesignandoperationofsteamturbinesand
powerplantsingeneral.

ByNamatimangan08on1February,20118:41am
>inacombinedcyclepowerplant,the
>steamisusedtorunasteamturbineat
>thedownstreamwhichhasa30%
>efficiencyduetothecondenserlosses.
>
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>Sir,pleaseexplainwhereyougotthis
>numberforsteamturbineefficiency.
>Steamturbinesareprettygoodat
>extractingtheenergyfromthesteamI
>havenoreferenceoffhand,butIthink
>75%+isnotanunheardofnumber
Probablyyouarereferringtoisentropicorcylinderefficiency.Inthiscase75%istheleastyoucanexpect.Itcanbeashighas90%.Isentropicefficiencyis
theratiobetweentheactualexpansionpowertothetheoreticalexpansionpowerassumingtheexpansiontakesplaceatconstantentropy.
Asfarasthermalefficiencyisconcernyoucanfindsomewherearound45%forabigST(1000MW),3pressuretype.Thermalefficiencyforthesteamcycle
(excludeboiler)istheratiobetweenthetotalexpansionpowertothetotalenergyreceivedbythesteamcycle.

Bykrush

on1February,20116:43pm

>
>Probablyyouarereferringto
>isentropicorcylinderefficiency.In
>thiscase75%istheleastyoucan
>expect.Itcanbeashighas90%.
>Isentropicefficiencyistheratio
>betweentheactualexpansionpowerto
>thetheoreticalexpansionpowerassuming
>theexpansiontakesplaceatconstant
>entropy.
*ding**ding*Guessweshoulddefineourcontrolvolumesand"efficiencies"better.
PerhapsI'mignorant,butwheneverreferringtoturbineefficiency,wearetalkingaboutisentropicefficiencyoftheturbine.Byconvention,thermalefficiency
(inmyexperience)isusedfortheentireplant.
Isoneorusrightandtheotherwrong?No.Wejustwereambiguousonourdefinitions.

ByNamatimangan08on2February,20111:38pm
Youareright.Turbineefficiencybyconventionisanisentropicefficiency.
Itakenotethatyoudefinethermalefficiencyfortheentireplant.Nothingwrongwithit.
Thatwillgiveoverallthermalefficiency.Therearemanyefficienciesentangleinit.Theyareisentropicefficiency,STcyclethermalefficiency,boiler
efficiency,generatorefficiency,mechanicalefficiencyandcombustionefficiency.Sometimesweneedtolookspecificallyoneachofthem.Itisveryhelpful
ifwecanconfigureourenergybalanceboundarytoevaluateeachofthoseefficiencies.

ByIjeomaon17September,201310:36am
Pleaseiamworkingonthefiltrationsystemforgasturbines.helpmewithinformationon
conditionsoftheinletair(intothefilter)
conditionsoftheoutletair(fromthefilterintothecompressor)
Filtrationefficiencyofthefilters
Differentialpressureinthefilter

ByNamatimangan08on3February,20112:36am
1outof1membersthoughtthispostwashelpful...
Inpracticeprobablyweusenetchangeinenthalpybetweentwoterminalsofyourcompressor,namelyenthalpyofairatcompressordischargeandenthalpyof
ambientair.Inthiscaseyouareassumingintakefilterisapartofyourcompressor.Youcandocorrectiontonormalizeworkdonetoovercomefilterdifferential
separately.
Inorderforyoutoknowenthalpiesatbothterminalsyouhavetomeasuremainly:
Ambientair:Temp&pressure
Compressordischarge:Temp&pressure
These2setsofdatainfactdefinedenthalpiesofambientairandatcompdischarge.Youcanusestandardtableforpropertiesofairtogetthedesiredenthalpies.
Enthalpydiffbetweenthesetwoterminalsindefinedworkdonetocompresseachkgorair.Obviouslythisisdonebythecompressor.Theengineeringunitshallbe
inJoule/kg.
Finallyyouhavetoknowairmassflowrate(kg/s).Hereistrickypartsinceitisrareyouhavemeasurementforthat.Thebest&alsooneofthestandardmethods
usedisviaindexpressure.Basicallythismethodutilizesindexpressurechangestopredictdeviationofairmassflowwhencomparedtotheknownreference(e.g.
commissioningdata).
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Inbriefyourcalculationshouldlooklikethisone.
Enthalpychangeacrosscomp=h2(P2,T2)h1(P1,T1)
=Deltah(J/kg)
Compressorinputpower=(Deltah)*dm_air/dt(J/s)

Themostcriticalparametertogetgoodresultistogetaccuratevaluefordm_air/dt.
WhatImentionedaboveisverysimplifiedtask.Dependsonyourapplicationsmoreoftenyouhavetodoalotmorefinetuning/correction/normalizationtoensure
whatyouaremeasuringservestheintendedpurpose.

Byprakashon11December,20116:34am
HowcanigetHRSGoutlettempifiknowexhausttempgoinginhrsgandwateratsaturatedconditionandprocessheatgivenat5bar

ByNamatimangan08on1February,20126:52am
>HowcanigetHRSGoutlettempifiknowexhausttempgoinginhrsgand
>wateratsaturatedconditionandprocessheatgivenat5bar
Youhavetomeasureit.I'msureyourplanthasmeasurementequipmenttomeasurestacktemperature.Formostofpracticalpurposesstacktemperaturecan
assumeHRSGoutlettemperature.

ByHarish on31January,20123:12am
Hi...Youhavementionedamethodtomeasuretheairmassflowrate.Canyouexplainmethemethodabitmoredetail?
Thanksinadvance.

ByNamatimangan08on1February,20128:30am
Ihaveexplainedintheotherrelatedthreadyesterday.Feelfreetofinditout.Tq.

ByMrudulaon1February,20125:11am
Hi,
Iamworkingonaprojectforprocessintegrationofaspongeironplantusinggasturbines.Ihavetheinletconditionsforthefluegasandwouldliketodetermine
thepowergenerationpossible.Cananyonehelpmewiththis?

ByNamatimangan08on1February,20128:09am
Tellusitstemperatureandmassflowrate.Wewilltellyouhowmuchpoweryoucanproducewithin3%accuracy.

ByMrudulaon2February,20122:09pm
Thetemperatureis1050degCandthemassflowrateis33kg/sec.120.54t/hr.

ByNamatimangan08on3February,201212:27am
>Thetemperatureis1050degCandthe
>massflowrateis33kg/sec.120.54t/hr.
Ok.Letuscalculatehowmuchyoucangetwithin3%accuracy.
Hightemperaturereservoirofflugas=1050Cel
Lowertemperaturereservoirofflugas=100Cel(Thecurrentpracticebasedon30CelambientairMycountry)
Flugastempgradient=1050100=950Cel
Averagetemperaturegradient=[(1050+273)+(100+273])*0.5=846Kelvin
Cp_air@848K=1.11kJ/kgKhttp://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/dryairpropertiesd_973.html
Heatavailablefromflugas
Q_flugas=Cp_air(T_inletToutle)*dM/dt

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=1.11X10^3X(1323373)X33Joule/s
=3.48X10^7J/s

=34.8MW

Boilerefficiencycanbeapproximatedtobearound0.88(66%)
Therefore,heatenergythatcanbeabsorbedbysteamcycle=0.88X34.8=30.62MW
IthinkatmostSTwillbetwopressuretype.Itsthermalefficiencyisestimatedtobearound0.33(33%)Imightbewrongbytheorderof+/2%here.
Thus,thegrossoutputyoucangetwillbe
P_gross=0.33*30.62=10.1MW

ByMrudulaon15February,20129:41am
Thanksalot!:)iamalsolookingforthemechanicalaspectsofthedesign.notmuchintoddetailsthough..anyhelponthat?

ByNamatimangan08on15February,20128:17pm
>iamalsolookingforthemechanicalaspectsofthedesign.
Youhavetomentionmoredetailaboutwhataspectsthatyouwanttoknow.Tq.

ByMoezcan on28November,20138:44am
0outof1membersthoughtthispostwashelpful...
HiNamatimangan08,
Nottojudge,butIamtryingtounderstandyourwayofcalculatingexhaustenergy.
Q=m/dt*Cp*(T_inletT_outlet)
AsCp,whyyoutakeair?Isn'tthatmustbefluegasspecificheat?
Anexample:
Basedongasturbinestechnicaldata:
OutputPower:15.290kW
HeatRate:9940kJ/kWh
ExhaustFlow:180.050kg/h
ExhaustTemp:505C
EngineEfficiency:36,2%
LHVNaturalgas:9,722kWh/m
InputEnergy:15.290/0,362=42.237,5kW
EnergyLoss:10,362=0,628(62,8%)
Accordingtoyourassumption,EnergyLossshouldbebiggerthantheexhaustenergy.Letsuseyourwayofcalculatingexhaustenergy:
Exhaustfluegastemp:505C
Hightemperaturereservoirofflugas=505C
Lowertemperaturereservoirofflugas=100C
Averagetemperaturegradient=(505+100)/2=302,5C=575,6K
Cp_air=1,04kJ/kgK
Theusableenergycanbecalculatedas:
Q_usable=50*1,04*(505100)
Q_usable=21.060kW
Ifconsideredthetotalextentofexhaustenergy,thentheoutputreferencetemperaturemustbeequaltoambienttemperature,letstake30C.
Q_exhaust=50*1,04*(50530)
Q_exhaust=24.700kW
But
Inputenergywas42237kW(100%)
Outputpoweris15290kW(36,2%)
Exhaustenergyis24700kW(58,5%)
Fromthiscalculation,thetotalenergylossesshouldbe62,8%.Ifexhaustenergyis58,5%,thismeanstherestisonly4,3%whichmustbethecombinationof
energylossesthroughtheturbinecooling,friction,heatlossesetc.4,3%doesn'tseemrealistictome.
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