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DearGroupDIY'ers,
Ifailed.Whiletheserversecurityupdateswereasuccess,thecoresoftwareupdatewasa
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Dimitree
Member
Posts:6

cassettetapeheadscircuit
on:May28,2015,05:51:30PM

hieveryone
http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=59584.0

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hieveryone
asanexperiment,justforfun,I'mtryingtobuildacheapandsimpletapeecho.
Somethingispiredbythis,forexample:

Asastartingpoint,Itookout,fromanoldandcheapAiwahifi,themagneticheads
(erasehead,recordheadandplaybackhead)usedonthecassettedeckandits
associatedcircuit.
I'mnotgoingtousethecassettedeckmechanismasitis,I'dliketobuildmyown
mechanism,moreorlesslikeonthepreviousexample,wheretapeisnotsealedona
cassetteandattachedtoreels,butisaloopinthe"openair".
Forthemomentmyconcernisnotaboutthemechanicalissues(likehowtomakea
tapeloop,howtomovetheloop,alignheads,etc),soI'massumingthattheseissues
werealreadyaddressed.
WhatI'dliketofocusonnowisunderstandinghowtosimplifytheelectroniccircuit
usedtowrite/readthemagneticheads.
SincethePCBthathousestheoriginalcircuitishuge(sinceonthesameboardthe
powerampandthetunerarealsopresent),Iwouldliketorebuildtheneededsection
ofthecircuit,oralternativelybuildanequivalentcircuit.
ThisisthecircuitI'mtalkingabout,withhighlightedinyellowthetapesection:
http://www.edsounds.com/prova1.png
ThemostobscurepartstomearethatBD3881ICandthefetswitching.
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ThemostobscurepartstomearethatBD3881ICandthefetswitching.
IsearchedforadatasheetofthatIC,Ionlyfoundareallycripticone,andthisisthe
link:
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheetpdf/view/87881/ROHM/BD3881FV.html

Isitsomethingreallyspecial,ormaybeIcouldbuildasimpleopampequivalent
circuit,andavoidtheneedofthatIC?
Also,doIreallyneedtouseallthoseFETs,giventhefactthatImust
continuously/simultaneouslywriteandread?
what'sforallthatswitching?
thankyouforthesupport!
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JohnRoberts
GlobalModerator
Member
Hickory,MS
Posts:9581

Re:cassettetapeheadscircuit
Reply#1on:May28,2015,06:15:29PM

Ihadtodealwithone4trackcassettedeckanditwasenoughofaPIAwithdolbyNR
andbeingabletooverdubpunchinsforonetrackwhilelisteningtotheotherthree.
Soyesyourapplicationisalittleeasierwithoutswitchingbutyouneedtostillmanage
abiasoscillatorfortherecordhead,andperhapsbiastrapstokeepthatoutofthe
playback.
DoyouplantouseNR?
Iwouldn'ttrytomakeoneonabet...butit'syourtimeandmoney.
Tapeheadpreampsarelownoiseforlowerimpedancethanphonocartsbutadecent
modernopampmightwork.
LookupNABplaybackeq.

Havefun..
JR
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JR

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JohnRoberts
http://circularscience.com
Tuneit,ordon'tplayit...

Dimitree
Member
Posts:6

Re:cassettetapeheadscircuit
Reply#2on:May28,2015,06:23:44PM

thankyouforthereply!
Quote

Soyesyourapplicationisalittleeasierwithoutswitchingbutyouneedto
stillmanageabiasoscillatorfortherecordhead,andperhapsbiastrapsto
keepthatoutoftheplayback.
ifI'mnotwrong,biasisalreadygeneratedinthatcircuit,soIguessbiastrapstoo..
howswitchingisinvolvedinthat?
Quote

DoyouplantouseNR?
doyoumeannoisereduction?ifyes,thenIthinkit'senoughwhattheoriginalcircuit
does..ornot?Imean,itwasintendedtouseashifiplayer,soIthinknoiseisnotthat
bad.
BtwIwillgoingtouseafasterspeedthantheusualcassettestandard,andIwillput
the2channelsinseries,thatwouldimproveS/NratioifIunderstoodwell.
Quote

Iwouldn'ttrytomakeoneonabet...butit'syourtimeandmoney.
pleaseexplain
Quote

Tapeheadpreampsarelownoiseforlowerimpedancethanphonocarts
butadecentmodernopampmightwork.
LookupNABplaybackeq.

http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=59584.0

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whatIstilldon'tunderstandis:arethetapeheadsallequal?Imean,canIsimplytake
atapeechomachine(thatobviouslydoesn'tusecassetteheads)schematicanduse
myownheadswiththatschematic?ifnot,areallcassetteheadsequal?ormaybe
therearedifferencesevenbetweenthem?
Logged

JohnRoberts
GlobalModerator
Member
Hickory,MS
Posts:9581

Re:cassettetapeheadscircuit
Reply#3on:May28,2015,09:12:13PM

Quotefrom:DimitreeonMay28,2015,06:23:44PM

thankyouforthereply!
Quote

Soyesyourapplicationisalittleeasierwithoutswitchingbutyou
needtostillmanageabiasoscillatorfortherecordhead,and
perhapsbiastrapstokeepthatoutoftheplayback.
ifI'mnotwrong,biasisalreadygeneratedinthatcircuit,soIguessbias
trapstoo..
howswitchingisinvolvedinthat?
Biasisonlyusedduringrecord.
Quote

Quote

DoyouplantouseNR?
doyoumeannoisereduction?ifyes,thenIthinkit'senoughwhatthe
originalcircuitdoes..ornot?Imean,itwasintendedtouseashifiplayer,so
Ithinknoiseisnotthatbad.
BtwIwillgoingtouseafasterspeedthantheusualcassettestandard,andI
willputthe2channelsinseries,thatwouldimproveS/NratioifIunderstood
well.
IfyourecordandplaybackatthesametimewhileusingNR,youneedtofilterthebias
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cassettetapeheadscircuit
IfyourecordandplaybackatthesametimewhileusingNR,youneedtofilterthebias
frequencyleakageoutoftheplaybackchannelsoitdoesn'tcorrupttheplaybackNR
tracking.

Quote

Quote

Iwouldn'ttrytomakeoneonabet...butit'syourtimeand
money.
pleaseexplain
Iwouldnotdothatprojectonabet...Iknowenoughabouttaperecorderstonot
designoneforfun.
Quote

Quote

Tapeheadpreampsarelownoiseforlowerimpedancethan
phonocartsbutadecentmodernopampmightwork.
LookupNABplaybackeq.

whatIstilldon'tunderstandis:arethetapeheadsallequal?Imean,canI
simplytakeatapeechomachine(thatobviouslydoesn'tusecassette
heads)schematicandusemyownheadswiththatschematic?ifnot,areall
cassetteheadsequal?ormaybetherearedifferencesevenbetweenthem?
Notapeheadsarenotallthesame.
JR
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JohnRoberts
http://circularscience.com
Tuneit,ordon'tplayit...

abbeyroaddenfer
GlobalModerator
Member
Marcelland

Posts:4804

Re:cassettetapeheadscircuit
Reply#4on:May29,2015,02:48:27AM

Quotefrom:DimitreeonMay28,2015,05:51:30PM

hieveryone

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hieveryone
asanexperiment,justforfun,I'mtryingtobuildacheapandsimpletape
echo.
Notdissingyou,butit'sclearyoudon'tknow"taperecording101".
Theschemoyoujoinedisnotgoingtohelpyouunderstand,becausethefunctional
blocksareallhiddeninthesquarebox.
Isuggestyoustudysomebasicschemos,suchasEchoplex,EchorecandCopicat.
Mosttaperecorderschemosaredifficulttoanalyzebecausetheyareswitching
buildingblocksbetweenrecordandplayback(sometimesthepoweramplifieris
rescheduledintoabiasoscillator).3headtypesaresomewhateasier,butreally,
dedicatedechounitsareverysimplethereare3blocks:recordamp,playbackamp
andoscillator,withverylittleinterconnect.
AsJRmentioned,notallheadsareequal.
Therearetwodistinciveaspects:
Firstistechnology,tubevs.solidstate.Typically,theformerhaveamuchlarger
impedancethanthelatter.
Secondisfunction:optimally,playbackheadshavehigherimpedanceandsmallergap
thanrecordheads.However,2headtypetaperecordersuseacompromise.Erase
headsareadifferentanimal,withmuchlargergapthatmakesthemunsuitablefor
dealingwithaudiosignals,andverylowinductance.
Beforeundertakingthetaskofmakingatapeechounit,youmustunderstandthe
principles.thereisalotofmechanicalengineeringgoingintapemachines.For
example,theheadsmustbeprovidedwithsomekindofheightandazimuth
adjustmentIsuggestyouidentifythatonanexistingmachine.
Iwouldtrytoidentifyacheaptaperecorderandstartwithitasamechanicaldonor
moddingareeltoreelintoacloseloopsystemisnotanimpossibletask.Youcould
lockitinrecordmodeanduseanotheridenticalmachineasadonorfortheplayback
electronics.
Logged

Who'srightorwrongisirrelevant.Whatmattersiswhat'srightorwrong.
Stargroundisforelectricians.

Dimitree
Member
Posts:6

Re:cassettetapeheadscircuit
Reply#5on:May29,2015,07:24:35AM

Quotefrom:abbeyroaddenferonMay29,2015,02:48:27AM

Notdissingyou,butit'sclearyoudon'tknow"taperecording101".
Theschemoyoujoinedisnotgoingtohelpyouunderstand,becausethe
functionalblocksareallhiddeninthesquarebox.
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that'swhyIcamehere
Iindeedwouldliketounderstandwhat'sinsidethatbox..Datasheetdoesn'thelpme,I
hopeyoucan.
Quotefrom:abbeyroaddenferonMay29,2015,02:48:27AM

AsJRmentioned,notallheadsareequal.
Therearetwodistinciveaspects:
Firstistechnology,tubevs.solidstate.Typically,theformerhaveamuch
largerimpedancethanthelatter.
Secondisfunction:optimally,playbackheadshavehigherimpedanceand
smallergapthanrecordheads.However,2headtypetaperecordersusea
compromise.Eraseheadsareadifferentanimal,withmuchlargergapthat
makesthemunsuitablefordealingwithaudiosignals,andverylow
inductance.
Iunderstandthatplaybackheads,eraseheadsandrecordheadsaredifferent
betweenthem.
WhatI'dliketounderstand,andIdidn'tmanagetodoit,is:
1/4"reeltoreel(orsimilar)headsareobviouslyestheticallydifferentfromcassette
heads.Butwhatareotherdifferences?impedance,bandwith,etc..Imean,whatare
themeasurablecharacteristicsthatdistinguish2tapeheadsformats?
also,betweenthesamefamily(Imean,betweencassetteheads)whatcouldbethe
differencesbetweendifferentmanufacturers?asanexample,canIputaplayback
headfromasonydeckinsiedeaphilipsdeckwithoutadaptingthecircuit?
Quotefrom:abbeyroaddenferonMay29,2015,02:48:27AM

Beforeundertakingthetaskofmakingatapeechounit,youmust
understandtheprinciples.thereisalotofmechanicalengineeringgoingin
tapemachines.Forexample,theheadsmustbeprovidedwithsomekindof
heightandazimuthadjustmentIsuggestyouidentifythatonanexisting
machine.
Iwouldtrytoidentifyacheaptaperecorderandstartwithitasamechanical
donormoddingareeltoreelintoacloseloopsystemisnotanimpossible
task.Youcouldlockitinrecordmodeanduseanotheridenticalmachineas
adonorfortheplaybackelectronics.
asIsaidpreviously,mechanicalissuesaregoingtobeaddressedinalaterstage..I'm
stilltryingtheunderstandhowitallworks..notstartingtheprojectatall..ThisiswhyI'm
assumingthatthemechanicalpartisalreadyperfectsoIcanfocusontheelectronicsfor
themoment.
Logged

abbeyroaddenfer
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cassettetapeheadscircuit

GlobalModerator
Member
Marcelland
Posts:4804

Re:cassettetapeheadscircuit
Reply#6on:May29,2015,08:20:34AM

Quotefrom:DimitreeonMay29,2015,07:24:35AM

Iunderstandthatplaybackheads,eraseheadsandrecordheadsare
differentbetweenthem.
WhatI'dliketounderstand,andIdidn'tmanagetodoit,is:
1/4"reeltoreel(orsimilar)headsareobviouslyestheticallydifferentfrom
cassetteheads.Butwhatareotherdifferences?impedance,bandwith,etc..
Imean,whatarethemeasurablecharacteristicsthatdistinguish2tape
headsformats?
First,thetapewidthisdifferent,0.25"forreeltoreel,0.15forcassette.Afterthatmost
ofthedifferencescomefromthefactthatcassettedeckshavehadadegreeof
industrialisationthatreeeltoreelneverenjoyed.AtypicalR2Rheadwouldhavea
separateshield,aseparatemountwith3wayadjustment,whencassetteheadswould
haveintegratedshieldandadjustmentsystem.
Quote

also,betweenthesamefamily(Imean,betweencassetteheads)what
couldbethedifferencesbetweendifferentmanufacturers?asanexample,
canIputaplaybackheadfromasonydeckinsiedeaphilipsdeckwithout
adaptingthecircuit?
Somemanufacturershavedeveloppedheadsthathelpedthemachievespecific
performanceIIRCAkaihadironglassheads,Pioneerdeveloppedheadsthatallowed
themcrossfieldbias,butinmanycases,youcouldusemixedandmatchedheadsfrom
differentmanufacturers.Themainissuewouldbemechanical.Butyoumustknowthe
characteristicsoftheheadsoratleastdeducethemfromtheanalysisofthe
surroundingelectronics.
Logged

Who'srightorwrongisirrelevant.Whatmattersiswhat'srightorwrong.
Stargroundisforelectricians.

JohnRoberts
GlobalModerator
Member
Hickory,MS
Posts:9581
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9/13

9/17/2015

Posts:9581

cassettetapeheadscircuit

Re:cassettetapeheadscircuit
Reply#7on:May29,2015,09:21:29AM
Quotefrom:DimitreeonMay29,2015,07:24:35AM

Quotefrom:abbeyroaddenferonMay29,2015,02:48:27AM

Notdissingyou,butit'sclearyoudon'tknow"taperecording
101".
Theschemoyoujoinedisnotgoingtohelpyouunderstand,
becausethefunctionalblocksareallhiddeninthesquarebox.
that'swhyIcamehere
Iindeedwouldliketounderstandwhat'sinsidethatbox..Datasheetdoesn't
helpme,Ihopeyoucan.
Quotefrom:abbeyroaddenferonMay29,2015,02:48:27AM

AsJRmentioned,notallheadsareequal.
Therearetwodistinciveaspects:
Firstistechnology,tubevs.solidstate.Typically,theformerhave
amuchlargerimpedancethanthelatter.
Secondisfunction:optimally,playbackheadshavehigher
impedanceandsmallergapthanrecordheads.However,2head
typetaperecordersuseacompromise.Eraseheadsarea
differentanimal,withmuchlargergapthatmakesthem
unsuitablefordealingwithaudiosignals,andverylow
inductance.
Iunderstandthatplaybackheads,eraseheadsandrecordheadsare
differentbetweenthem.
WhatI'dliketounderstand,andIdidn'tmanagetodoit,is:
1/4"reeltoreel(orsimilar)headsareobviouslyestheticallydifferentfrom
cassetteheads.Butwhatareotherdifferences?impedance,bandwith,etc..
Imean,whatarethemeasurablecharacteristicsthatdistinguish2tape
headsformats?
also,betweenthesamefamily(Imean,betweencassetteheads)what
couldbethedifferencesbetweendifferentmanufacturers?asanexample,
canIputaplaybackheadfromasonydeckinsiedeaphilipsdeckwithout
adaptingthecircuit?
Maybeifyouareverylucky..Theheadswillbemechanicallystandardizedwrttrack
widthandlocationbutnotnecessarilysimilarmountingattachments.Electricallythey

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widthandlocationbutnotnecessarilysimilarmountingattachments.Electricallythey
couldusedifferentbiasoscillatorfrequencyandexhibitsubtlydifferentfrequency
response.
Anotherwildcardwithcassetteheadsis4Tandeven8Tcassetteheadswillbe
differentthancommon2T+2Tconsumerheads.Whilethe4Tand2T+2Tappear
similarfortracklocation,the4Theadhasmagneticshieldingbetweeneachtrackso
youcanrecordoneofthe4tracksatatime.The2T+2Theadonlyhasmagnetic
shieldingbetweenthe2Tpairs.
AFAIKtheheadsare(were?)onlymadebyasmallhandfulofcompanies,soitis
possibletofindsimilarheadsinsidedifferentbrands.
Quote

Quotefrom:abbeyroaddenferonMay29,2015,02:48:27AM

Beforeundertakingthetaskofmakingatapeechounit,youmust
understandtheprinciples.thereisalotofmechanical
engineeringgoingintapemachines.Forexample,theheads
mustbeprovidedwithsomekindofheightandazimuth
adjustmentIsuggestyouidentifythatonanexistingmachine.
Iwouldtrytoidentifyacheaptaperecorderandstartwithitasa
mechanicaldonormoddingareeltoreelintoacloseloop
systemisnotanimpossibletask.Youcouldlockitinrecord
modeanduseanotheridenticalmachineasadonorforthe
playbackelectronics.
asIsaidpreviously,mechanicalissuesaregoingtobeaddressedinalater
stage..I'mstilltryingtheunderstandhowitallworks..notstartingtheproject
atall..ThisiswhyI'massumingthatthemechanicalpartisalreadyperfectso
Icanfocusontheelectronicsforthemoment.
In25wordsorless...TorecordyoumixinaHFbiastone(85100kHz)togetthe
magneticdomainsmovingforimprovedlinearity.Forplaybackyoujustneedtoamplify
andequalizethetinysignalcomingfromthehead.
JR
Logged

JohnRoberts
http://circularscience.com
Tuneit,ordon'tplayit...

RobFlinn
Member
Sussex,UK

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cassettetapeheadscircuit

Sussex,UK
Posts:3222

Re:cassettetapeheadscircuit
Reply#8on:May29,2015,01:34:55PM

Mostofthesetapedelayshaveprettyprimitiveelectronics.TheWatkinsCopicat
(valveversion)&theearlyBinsonhadbarmagnetsfortheeraseheads.Theydon't
havegreatreproqualityonplayback,whichispartofthecharmbecausequiteoftenit
soundsbetterwithlessclarityondelayedcontent.Withthatitminditmaybeeasierto
justcopyacircuitfromacopycat.
However,bearinginmindthatyoucanpickupacopycatforacoupleofhundredquid
ithardlyseemsworththeeffortrecreatingit.
Logged

regardsRob
Capitalletters.ThedifferencebetweenhelpingyouruncleJackoffhishorse,&helpingyourunclejackoff
hishorse........

iomegaman
Member
ChicoCa.
Posts:311

Re:cassettetapeheadscircuit
Reply#9on:May29,2015,05:50:23PM

IjustpickedupanoldFenderElectronicEchoCHamberfromacraigslistadthatIwill
rebuildforfun,schematicprettysimpleeverythingseemstobeintactexceptthe
cartridge,whichhasbeenmodifiedtoholdan8tracktape...weshallsee...Ihave
locatedacartridgeinItalybutamalittleskepticalatthispoint...
Thisschematicisclose,notexact...
Logged

Sincethedevelopmentoftheinternetmillionsofpeoplehavedied,thetwomayormaynotberelated.

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