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Star Trek D20

Discussion in 'Games & Gaming' started by Mith, Oct 20, 2007.
Page 6 of 6 < Prev

17 Seconds said:

That's a pity, it really is an ideal system for running a Trek style game. Race rules are
easy as pie.

There already IS a GURPS Trek game.

Typhonis 1
Sick Little Monkey

look up GURPS Prime Directive.

Use either the Starmada or Federation Commander rules and you can have Trek
style starship fights as well.
Typhonis 1, Nov 26, 2011

#126

AotFSterling said:

[/LIST]
Please tell me why peopel keep stating vulcans weaker than Humans... its been said in
canon that Vulcans were three times stronger than humans and Klingons twice.. on
average.

SotF
Apocalypse How

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Human average is Str 10 = 33 lbs light lift

Klingon would = 66 Average light lift = 15 str
Vulcan/Romulan would = 99 Average light lift = 17.82 Str.. rounded to 18 Str for
a 100 lbs average lift.
A Standard Jem'Hadar warrior 3-4 times the endurance of Worf, a large, extremely
experienced, Klingon warrior as shown by his breathing rate and rest periods. This
means that Jem'Hadar prison guard had 3-4 times Worf's muscular endurance.
If said Jem'Hadar has 3 times muscular ability of Worf, and actually larger than normal
Klingon, then he'd definitely have three times the muscular ability of an average
Klingon. In normal military operates mediocre troops are put as prison guards. If the
Dominion operates this way as well, then that makes the guard who had 3 times Worf's
muscular ability, an average Jem'Hadar (since they are all bred for combat and have no
civvies).
Taking all that into account, that would mean;

Average Jem'Hadar is 3*average Klingon Str aka 6*average human. = 198

Average light lift = 22.77 rounded up to 23 Str for 200 lbs light lift.
Now to Data.. he had the STR in his one arm to not only stop a 1940s/1950s era cab
that was going approximately 50 mph in its tracks, but also to lift it a few inches in one
motion.
Just to stop the cab = enough str to stop 24,332.872018828 newtons of force, aka
5,470.2472353048 pounds of force. That would = STR53.0998231rounded to 54 STR. To lift it would
require

lifting approximately 1000 lbs = STR 34.55 rounded to STR 35 = for 1066 lbs. To

Which means the entire basic strength rules are off. Thing to remember is that the
strongest a human can get naturally is 23 (18 base+5 from level based). Klingons
are no stronger than orcs are portrayed as. Of course, if you want to skyrocket the
entire thing, going by D20 rules, those kind of things tend to lead to massive LA.
The strength for lifting is not intended for someone yanking him off his feet for a
moment, it's the carrying the load for a while.
With Klingons, you treat those as a large creature rather than a medium with the
stats I'd done. And a lot of things in combat do not even follow the normal rules
beyond description.
SotF, Nov 26, 2011

#127

This entire thread is ridiculous- especially the various ways y'all went about
handling races, with the giant modifiers to everything. A game is not a simulationit's a game. While the 3.5 ruleset on which this seems to be based had more
simulationist elements to it, it's still a game and thus ultimately an abstraction.

Kerrus

Attempting to acquire a direct correlation between game stats and actual stated
capabilities is not only ridiculous, but a waste of time and effort.

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Fractal Insanity

Ultimately, any attempt to make a d20 ST RPG would need to look at game
balance and relatively accurate representation- not exact nitpicking representation
using ridiculously inane values.

So you want your vulcans with +8 strength? Sure. They're LA+4.

3.5 is not particularly a decent system under which to approach star trek- hell,
most of D&D in general isn't, although you could probably do it fairly accurately
with AD&D- but that has its own various problems, like representing fightan
classes.

Ultimately, I'd approach any d20 ST game using the 4th edition ruleset, which is
much simpler to design for and easier to balance. While it obviously doesn't scale
to perfect simulationist standards, its a much better system for representing the
various stuff.

For instance, the aformentioned Vulcan racial writeup would probably look
something like this:

Race: Vulcan
Bonuses: +2 Constitution, +2 Strength or +2 Intelligence.
Trance: A Vulcan does not sleep in the same manner as other races, instead
entering a meditative trance for four hours to gain the benefit of a night's rest.
Hardy: A vulcan has one extra healing surge.
Vision: Low Light
Pick one of the following racial powers:
Mind Meld
Nerve Pinch
Vulcan characters can take vulcan racial utilities in place of their normal utilities.

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Is it perfectly simulationist to some high altar deity? No. Is it playable? Absolutely.

Does it represent vulcans well? Absolutely.

Now, for a klingon character, a writeup might look like this:

Race: Klingon
Bonuses: +2 Strength, +2 Dexterity or +2 Charisma
Heroic Blooded: A Klingon gains a bonus to their healing surge value equal to their
charisma modifier.
Vision: Low Light
Klingon Weapon Proficiency: Bat'leth.
Racial power: Wrathful Resistance (Immediate interrupt on a hit, gain resist all
damage 5/10/15 vs triggering attack, and gain THP)

Now of course, the problem with 4th edition is that you can't really do common
weapons like phasers accurately, but in all honesty these are heroes, so who
cares? HP isn't actually health, it's hit points. How many 'near misses' you can take
before you get knocked out.
Kerrus, Nov 26, 2011

#128

Honestly, go with some of the higher tech D20 as a basis. The version I'd done
was a variant of the SW: Saga Edition stripping out the Jedi class and reworking
the force rules to fit a variety of racial special abilities such as the Vulcan abilities if
they're things like telepathy. Starship rules are already there (Though again, the
Farscape rules kind of had a rather interesting twist in making ships characters).
Beyond that, someone has a pretty good start with Spycraft 2.0 for a rule set.
SotF
Apocalypse How

here
SotF, Nov 26, 2011

#129

If you're doing that why not use a combination of Unisystem, LUGTrek, and parts
of nWOD. All fit pretty handily together and are more or less inter-changeable.

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Rogerd, Nov 26, 2011

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#130

Rogerd

While we're having a necro party, I think it's important that you ("you" being
anyone interested in making a Star Trek D20) consider what the point of a D20 is
in the first place. A D20 in D20-based systems is the core resolution die, which
means that, generally, you roll the die and add and/or subtract some numbers to
come up with a final number that you compare to a target number.

Reaper_93
SB's Fav. Dungeon
Master

Of course, there are other core resolution mechanics, like 3d6, which is popular, or
even diceless. It's important to consider the amount of variance you want in your
resolution results. The D20 is famous for being a cruel mistress because although
its mean is 10.5, it has no mode, contrary to something like 3d6 that falls with its
mean average not only at 10.5, but also lands on 10 and 11 far more frequently
than it lands on its outskirt terms like 3 and 18, while the potential for a D20 to
land on its outskirts (1 and 20) is identical to its chance to land on its averages (10
and 11).
So, basically, before you do anything you should probably ask whether you want
your particular Trek adventure to be a bit more skill based and predictable (dice
pools or diceless) or have a more wild and random value (larger, single die) to it.
I'm only a very minimally involved Trek fan (haven't watched probably even the
majority of episodes, and really no voyager or DS9 to boot), so I'm not entirely
sure whether its tropes would benefit from a wider or tighter variance in resolution
results, but that's something to keep in mind before you start going hog-wild and
making up tons of numbers.
Reaper_93, Nov 26, 2011

#131

I really don't think Star Trek is good for a simulationist system due to all the story
rules it employs, and you will run into many problems if you use one, such as
combat being whoever wins initiative immediately kills everyone else with ease by
a high setting shot, this being one even trek writers are aware of. Rather use a
narrativistic system where you can maintain the story rules, and tell your stories
with the format and tropes that star trek does.
Palp

Palp, Nov 26, 2011

#132

Not badass enough.

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Well I picked d20 because I'm somewhat familiar with it, i like Mutants and
Masterminds as well. GURPS looks good too but I've never played it.
I also licked d2 because it seems to be easiest to cross over.. i mean i could
include Stargate, star trek, star wars, Babylon 5, urban arcana, ect and not worry
about converting from one system to another.
AotFSterling
Admiral of the Fleets.

I also like DnD because the stats are scale-able.

I have OCD and my issue is correctness/accuracy.
AotFSterling, Nov 26, 2011

#133

If your issue is correctness/accuracy, than RPGs are not for you.

Kerrus, Nov 26, 2011

#134

Kerrus
Fractal Insanity

AotFSterling said:

I also licked d20 because it seems to be easiest to cross over.. i mean i could include
Stargate, star trek, star wars, Babylon 5, urban arcana, ect and not worry about
converting from one system to another

Palp
Not badass enough.

Its not, many hated the D20 wave as its horrible as a general system and when
you adapt settings to it you have to make many concessions and introduce things
from the system that don't make sense. So instead of trying to butcher settings
into D20, look for a better generic system (there are many great ones). Or a more
specialiced system that does what you want for a specific setting better. Just
because things have been statted into D20 in books doesn't mean it have been
done so well or competently.
Palp, Nov 27, 2011

#135

Hmm.. someone just suggested to me that i should try and stat everything out in
nWoD.
Can someone explain to me level adjustments, I've never seen them before.

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AotFSterling, Dec 2, 2011

#136

AotFSterling
Admiral of the Fleets.

AotFSterling said:

Hmm.. someone just suggested to me that i should try and stat everything out in
nWoD.
Can someone explain to me level adjustments, I've never seen them before.

Palp
Not badass enough.

NWOD is quite good as far as simulationist systems works, the combat as normal
may run into problems buut the one roll combat system from Dance Macabre could
work very well, in that each party states their intentions for the combat, then you
roll for results and how long it takes and such giving it more a story approach
fitting for trek.
Palp, Dec 2, 2011

#137

AotFSterling said:

Hmm.. someone just suggested to me that i should try and stat everything out in
nWoD. Can someone explain to me level adjustments, I've never seen them before.

Rogerd

Use LUGTrek for conversions to WOD, primarily as the stat max is many cases is 5,
same as nWOD. Now the Edges I recommend as attribute bonuses to make it
easier. I did something that might help?
It combines WOD, Unisystem, C-Tech and LUGTRek to make it all easier.
You have three bases stats Primary Attributes Physical, Mental, Social,
Secondary stats are generated from the Primary, as below Willpower, Actions,
Reflex, Speed, Vitality
Willpower: Resolve + Composure
Actions: Dexterity + Wits / 2 (C-tech pg 67)
Reflex: Agility + Composure + Perception / 3
Speed: Str + Dex

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Vitality: Strength +Stamina + 5

Orgone Average Int + Vitality + 5
Ruach Drama Points - 10
Edges stat bonuses to your character
Each character then purchases powers at - Gifted 2pts/ level
All attribute points, qualities and drawbacks and skills are purchased at 1 pt, with
the exception of Gifted above. Stops power gaming, more or less. Although
anything after 5costs 2 pt/ level.
Rogerd, Dec 2, 2011

#138

Why not run it straight NWOD? Some story control points should be added though,
IIRC something like it is in Mirrors.

Palp, Dec 2, 2011

#139

Palp
Not badass enough.

Palp said:

Why not run it straight NWOD? Some story control points should be added though, IIRC
something like it is in Mirrors.

Because LUGTrek has damage for weapons already which seems to match stuff in
Eden or C-tech, so it seemed simpler than tons of conversions.
Rogerd

Hell if you took the 'supernatural' of WOD out of it, e.g.

http://wiki.white-wolf.com/worldofdarkness/index.php?title=Kindred_Virus
You could easily include stuff like vamps as posthuman types, if we felt so inclined.
But I'm open to suggestions.
Rogerd, Dec 2, 2011

#140

Rogerd said:

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Because LUGTrek has damage for weapons already which seems to match stuff in Eden
or C-tech, so it seemed simpler than tons of conversions.
Hell if you took the 'supernatural' of WOD out of it, e.g.
http://wiki.white-wolf.com/worldofdarkness/index.php?title=Kindred_Virus

Palp
Not badass enough.

You could easily include stuff like vamps as posthuman types, if we felt so inclined. But
I'm open to suggestions.

Yeah but NWOD weapon stats is very simple, and really if you are rolling damage
in star trek you are doing it wrong as trek energy weapons dont work like that,
they do what they are set to do, stamina really don't help against them.
Palp, Dec 2, 2011

#141

Palp said:

Yeah but NWOD weapon stats is very simple, and really if you are rolling damage in
star trek you are doing it wrong as trek energy weapons dont work like that, they do
what they are set to do, stamina really don't help against them.

Rogerd

Not in LUGTrek it doesn't. You have ratings of damage you can take which work in
a scale.
Rogerd, Dec 2, 2011

#142

Doesn't matter what system we use really, as long as it is not, D20, or Gurps. As
much as I like Gurps, I don't feel it would work as well as something like WOD.

Rogerd, Dec 2, 2011

#143

Rogerd

AotFSterling said:

Hmm.. someone just suggested to me that i should try and stat everything out in
nWoD.
Can someone explain to me level adjustments, I've never seen them before.

SotF
Apocalypse How

Level adjustments are ways to balance the characters abilities. The point of the
level system is so that the entire party is roughly at the same capability. If you
want a race to have some powerful abilities, then it means they start pretty far in

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the hole with other things such as leveling abilities.

And as a side note about the earlier comments on the strength of Klingons and
Vulcans, neither race is as strong as a Wookie who only has a +4 Strength
SotF, Dec 2, 2011

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