Why is 6th Sense Pleasure (Mental) not Included?

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Why is 6th Sense Pleasure (Mental) not Included?

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pelletboy
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue May 10,
2011 12:58 pm

Why is 6th Sense Pleasure (Mental) not

Included?
by pelletboy Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:32 am
P
o is mental sense pleasure not included
Why
s
t

in the following warning by the Awakened One?:

"Monks, there are these five strings of sensuality. Which five? Forms cognizable via the eye
agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. Sounds cognizable via the
ear agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. Aromas cognizable
via the nose agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. Tastes
cognizable via the tongue agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire,
enticing. Tactile sensations cognizable via the body agreeable, pleasing, charming,
endearing, fostering desire, enticing. These are the five strings of sensuality.
"And any priests or contemplatives tied to these five strings of sensuality infatuated with
them, having totally fallen for them, consuming them without seeing their drawbacks or
discerning the escape from them should be known as having met with misfortune, having
met with ruin; Mara can do with them as he will. Just as if a wild deer were to lie bound on a
heap of snares: it should be known as having met with misfortune, having met with ruin; the
hunter can do with it as he will. When the hunter comes, it won't get away as it would like. In
the same way, any priests or contemplatives tied to these five strings of sensuality
infatuated with them, having totally fallen for them, consuming them without seeing their
drawbacks or discerning the escape from them should be known as having met with
misfortune, having met with ruin; Mara can do with them as he will.
-MN 26
Is this because mental sense pleasure is tied to inclining to stories in the Tipitaka and thus not
discouraged or is it just not that big a danger as other sense pleasures?
o

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9555&p=146980[24/8/2558 0:33:08]

Why is 6th Sense Pleasure (Mental) not Included? - Dhamma Wheel

chownah
Posts: 3666
Joined: Wed Aug 12,
2009 2:19 pm

Re: Why is 6th Sense Pleasure (Mental) not Included?

by chownah Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:51 pm
P
o
I don't
really know if it matters why he
s
Buddha
taught anyone after becoming
t

taught that way....this was the very first time that the
enlightened if I'm understanding the sutta
correctly.....maybe he was nervous and forgot the mind.....hahhahahha....just joking.

Not wanting to presume to understand the mind of the Thatagatha but maybe he figured that
the concentration he taught immediately following the exceprt which you produced would
adequately cover the mental aspect of it. There are other places in the suttas where the five
senses are mentioned without the mind being included....you might go look at them and
compare and see if you can find some similarities or differences between them and maybe get
a clue as to what is up with that.
chownah
o
p
Piyadhammo Bhikkhu
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011
10:58 am

Temptation vs Contemplation
by Piyadhammo Bhikkhu Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:03 am
P
o most interesting incident of omitting the 6th sense is probably that
the
s
Buddha
says that the (five) sense experience of the opposite sex is the
t

of A 1.1 where the

most compelling. it
would appear, though, that the mental concoction from the experience is the far more potent
temptation.
it seems that the Buddha uses the 5 sense model when he wants to warn about the dangers and
drawbacks of the external world. the 6 sense model is used when the totality of existence
including the mind and it's treatment is emphasized, as for example, in the fire sutta (S 35.28),
M 18 or the definition of sense restraint (e.g. M 27).
o
p

Re: Temptation vs Contemplation

by mikenz66 Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:47 pm
P
o
Good
examples Venerable! Here are some links:
s
Fire
t sutta: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka
mikenz66
Posts: 12122
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009
7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

... .nymo.html
M 18 : http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Definition of sense restraint (e.g. M 27): http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ...
.than.html

Mike
o
p

Re: Why is 6th Sense Pleasure (Mental) not Included?

by reflection Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:51 am
P
o
Mental
pleasures are joy, happiness, jhana factors. Things
s
cultivated.
This is totally different to the other senses.
t

reflection
Posts: 1115
Joined: Wed Mar 30,

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9555&p=146980[24/8/2558 0:33:08]

resulting from the path and to be

Why is 6th Sense Pleasure (Mental) not Included? - Dhamma Wheel

2011 9:27 pm
o
p

Re: Why is 6th Sense Pleasure (Mental) not Included?

by mikenz66 Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:56 am
P
HioReflection,
s
t

reflection wrote:

mikenz66
Posts: 12122
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009
7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Mental pleasures are joy, happiness, jhana factors. Things resulting from the path and to be
cultivated. This is totally different to the other senses.

It's a good point that there are wholesome mental pleasures, but I think there are also
unwholesome mental pleasures.

Mike
o
p

Re: Why is 6th Sense Pleasure (Mental) not Included?

ground
Posts: 2592
Joined: Wed Nov 25,
2009 6:01 am

by ground Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:18 am

P
o
Doesn't
make sense not to include the 6th sense. Otherwise it would be wholesome to restrain
s
the
t 5 senses but it would not be unwholesome to constantly think about and visualize the

objects renounced through this restraint of the 5 senses and to take delight in this thinking and
visualizing. And it would not be unwholesome to take delight in views not compliant with right
view.

Kind regards
o
p

Re: Why is 6th Sense Pleasure (Mental) not Included?

by Dmytro Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:33 am
P
Hi,o
s
t
Dmytro
Posts: 1161
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009
7:24 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Contact:

C
o
n
t
a
c
t
D
m
y
t
r
o

pelletboy wrote:

Why is mental sense pleasure not included in the following warning by the Awakened One?:
"Monks, there are these five strings of sensuality...

Here Buddha talks about sensuality (kama).

Mental pleasure belongs to another sphere, different from the sphere of sensuality (kamaavacara), namely to the sphere of form and formless (rupa-avacara, arupa-avacara).
Buddha warns about the danger of passion in these spheres as well, it is called rupa-raga
(passion for the form sphere) and arupa-raga (passion for the formless). Those who practice
jhana have to heed such warnings.

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9555&p=146980[24/8/2558 0:33:08]

Why is 6th Sense Pleasure (Mental) not Included? - Dhamma Wheel

Best wishes, Dmytro

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o
p
Nori
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011
9:42 pm

Re: Why is 6th Sense Pleasure (Mental) not Included?

by Nori Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:47 pm
P
o
s
pelletboy wrote:
t

Why is mental sense pleasure not included in the following warning by the Awakened One?:
"Monks, ..."
Is this because mental sense pleasure is tied to inclining to stories in the Tipitaka and thus not
discouraged or is it just not that big a danger as other sense pleasures?

I don't think there is any meaning in it being not included here. There are plenty of other suttas
who recognize 6 sense doors. It is verifiable by experience. Mind sense door can present any of
the 5 sense impressions through memory/recollection.

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