Innocent Until Proven Guilty or As The Magnet Program Would Say, Shoot Everyone and Assume You Killed The One Who Wronged You PDF

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StraightTalk Ex pre ss
MA GNETICPERSONA LITIES
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Innocent until proven

guiltyor as The Magnet
Program would say, shoot
everyone and assume you
killed the one who wronged
you. (se lf.Magne ticPe rsonalitie s )
subm itte d 1 day ago * (las t edited 1 4 hours
ago) by doocurly
Moddy McMode rton stick ie d post
Well friends, Ive had my fill of

this tom-foolery, so lets get to
it.
Way back in January, when
r/serialpodcast became so
dreadful that no one could
stomach it, a series of private
subs emerged for people who
thought Adnan Syed just might
have been railroaded. Today, we
know them as:
r/serialdiscussion-public
r/TheBonnerParty-super
secret, not known
r/NarcoticsUnit-membership
only, but not secret
As we'd /u/ViewFromLL2
would have you believe, the
Bonner Party sub was just some
ho-hum, boring, Yahoo
discussion group. Turns out, it
was anything but. It became the
place for Susan Simpson to spill
information from the case files
handed over by /u/rabiasquared
. The purpose of spilling this
information to the members
could be summed up as free
research, much like
/u/EvidenceProf
does in his
reddit posts. However, there was
a lot of doxxing going on in
Susan's posts, and the behavior
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this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2015
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~8 users here now
Show m y flair on this subre ddit. It look s lik e :
StraightTalk Ex pre ss (e dit)
Welcome all! We are a lounge for Magnets,

Narcs, and podcast listeners. This is a place
to discuss our lives, hobbies, interests,
current events and humor. We are all friends
here and this place is for bonding and
laughing. Don't make me call the Jerkstore to
see if they've run outta you.
First off...The Rules. Don't m ake m e create
m ore.
Please be thoughtful and engaging in
your posts.
You can edit your own user flair.
Use post flair at all times!
I'm not the language police and this is
an adult lounge. Read language at your
own risk, but don't be hostile to
another user. If you post a link or
picture of something that is NSFW, flair
it that way or it will be taken down. No
toilet humor, nudity or pornographic
material.
This place is where you come to get
away from all things case-related. No
case talk, please. We have subs for
that.
No jerkitude, no snobbery, and no
violating reddit rules.
Second...Mem bership Rules:
Being here is a privilege, not a right.
that everyone has come to abhor

in /r/serialpodcast with "leaking"
case documents and doxxing
witnesses or people related to
the case became the norm in the
Bonner sub. Exhibit A will show
you some examples:
http://imgur.com/a/tPYDc
Oh my! Doxxing? Susan? She
wouldn't ask people to do this,
right? Surely she wouldn't
tolerate it? Welp, ya, she did.
And for some reason, she felt
that it was a good idea to share
case files and information with
people she didn't even know
outside of reddit. Like these
members:
http://imgur.com/b6ouf3n
Expect the boot if you can't get it

together.
No socks or puppetry, or sock
puppetry, period.(Muppetry is
negotiable, but will require gifts of
pastry) My philosophy is: Ain't nobody
got time for that! If I suspect it, you
will be asked to verify yourself.
Additionally, if you are recommending
someone who is new or not a member
of our other private subs, they m ay be
subject to verification.
cre a te d b y d o o curly Mo d d y McMo d e rto n
a co m m unity fo r 4 m o nths
MODERATORS
doocurly
m e ssage the m ode rators
Moddy McModerton
about m ode ration te am
RECENTLY VIEWED LINKS

Innocent until proven guiltyor as The
Magnet Program would say, shoot
everyone and assume you killed the
one who wronged you.
14 points | 939 comments
All these people are on the up

and up, right?
The Aftermath
Nope.
Braid: NDP swamped by Wildrose

power, PC nostalgia
Turns out that there was a

member in Bonner, who was also
a member in NU, that started to
have some sneaking suspicions
about an infamous
shadowbanned user from
r/serialpodcast. Who remembers
/u/janecc
, aka
/u/veganspicegirl
, aka
/u/samdolgoff
? The initial
members of NU will remember
that she wasn't missing from
reddit for very long, thanks to
this fun admission:
http://imgur.com/a/cyHio
As I said before, a certain
Bonner, who I'll call Sir
Bonnerite, started becoming
uneasy with Jane's admissions
about socks and servers, and
started to wonder who else she
2 points | 1 comment
RockyAli's response to
r/crackineverything doxx allegations
Prasad Panda wins foothills by election

cle ar
account activity
was masquerading as and why.

Sir Bonner started to wonder if
Jane was acting in some kind of
official capacity and sharing
information with the State of
Maryland. And as such, this
Bonner member reached out to
me and tipped his had a bit to
start asking me what I knew
about Jane, who had turned up
in NU as /u/theodoreadorno
.
I had no idea that Jane was a
member anywhere but NU, so
the extent of his concern was
not evident to me. After a brief
exchange of messages, Sir
Bonnerite came back to me with
some disturbing information. Sir
Bonnerite alleged that someone
had done some static IP tracing,
and had tied together the same
static IP address for the following
users, with the date and time
that each account was created:
http://imgur.com/6Hx4zMu
That's quite a list, isn't it? So, Sir
Bonnerite, sent me this
information, and I become
worried, grossed out, and above
all, freaked out that a) someone
might be unhinged enough to be
20+ users and b) is capable of
tracking someone down to the
point of knowing their static IP
address. I started to wonder
who would behave this way, and
why. I wondered if any of it was
true. I started scouring the "bio"
posts in NU to see who claimed
to be what in order to start
connecting the dots to see if
there was any truth to this. And
then I started to wonder what I
should do with this information.
Well, I lost a lot of sleep over it. I
started small. I sent

/u/ViewFromLL2
a PM saying
to be careful what she shared in
the Bonner Sub because of a
rising suspicion about Jane. That
message wasn't well received by
Susan, and I began to wonder if
she already knew what Sir
Bonnerite had said. So then
what? Sir Bonnerite had
messaged me further, saying the
same static IP address had also
been linked to 16 Facebook
accounts, and I had only recently
learned that secret Facebook
group existed. I decided to take
the information I had to the
Mods and /r/NarcoticsUnit. I
didn't want to sound crazy or like
a nut, but there was constant
discussion that there were moles
in NU and that someone was
giving information to hardcore
guilters. So, even though I swore
secrecy to Sir Bonnerite, I
messaged /u/Frosted_MiniWheats
and poked around a
bit about Jane. I had no idea that
while this secret Bonner
investigation had been going on
that dear Jane, and her friend,
/u/Compulsivebooknerd
had
begun an off-reddit smear
campaign against our mod and
friend, Frosted. Seems that while
someone was thinking that Jane
might be up to no-good on
reddit, she was proving that she
was up to no-good off of reddit,
with some kind of intention of
being a mean girl to FMW. All of
us that were chugging along in
NU didn't know some shady as
crap was happening behind the
scenes, but the Bonner Party
knew. The mods booted Jane,

Compulsive, and FMW, chalking it
up to girl drama. Meanwhile, Jane
decided to carry on with her Wiki
project while being a mean girl,
and finally, the NU mods had
enough of her and booted
/u/theodoreadorno
and
/u/compulsivebooknerd
from
NU. Harmony again, right?
Seems that things mellowed for a
while, and I sat on my
information from Sir Bonnerite,
even while the mole hunt went
on in NU. Rabia joined reddit
again, Krista joined reddit again,
and before we knew it, our fair
/u/EvidenceProf
began testing
the waters of his MVA theory.
That's about the time that
/u/DeleteandDeplete
showed
up. See, a former user,
/u/synchrolux
came up with
the theory first, pm'd a select
few with the details, then
disappeared. For those of you
who don't know the MVA theory,
just ask EP/Deleteanddeplete.
There is serious evidence out
there that they are one in the
same.
Let's also talk about the NB/Jay
dustup on Facebook. Remember
all the begging and pleading that
/u/Rabiasquared
did for a
screenshot of that posting? Our
former friend, u/inspiteofital
,
aka divinehammer, and a few
others, says that
/u/gingercoffee
has it. But as
luck would have it, gingercoffee
just doesn't want to give it to
Rabia because??? My guess is
that inspite and ginger are the
same gal, but I don't know for
sure. Rabia, I'd get after

gingercoffee if I were you and get
to the bottom of it.
If you all want to keep drinking
Jane's koolaid, feel free but take
that screenshot of the sock list
with you so that you know which
one of her personalities you are
talking too. As far as the rest of
the finger-pointing goes, Jane's
sock sleuthing post today in TMP
is a glorious work of bullshit. Our
dear friends, /u/In_Theory
and /u/fallaciousconundrum
would love to know that they are
being fingered as
/u/Frosted_Mini-Wheats
.
Considering that InTheory is a
real guy with real blog, it's pretty
hilarious, but I'll let him tell you
that he's not Frosted in his own
words.
Shame on all you for the
constant bullshittery and wild
speculation and finger-pointing.
You've all been taken for a ride
by Janecc, the Sybil of Reddit. I
hope she's had a lot of fun along
the way.
u/Alwaysbelagertha
, I would
have told you sooner if you had
reached out but the level of
absurdity and non-accuracy in
the sock hunts made it clear to
me that anyone who dare
questioned the mods at TMP
would be banned, booted and
forever linked to socks. You
know I'm a real person, and you
know who I am in real life, so you
will have to decide who you
believe. I'll let you guys have fun
guessing which Bonnerite gave
me the IP trace results.
/u/Deleteanddeplete
...you
were right to be suspicious of

Jane in TMP.
As far as Frosted Mini-Wheats
being all the things she's been
accused of? Everyone who has
participated in that ought to be
ashamed. Turns out a few of us
are brave, and have shared our
real lives with each other. Those
of us who know who Frosted is
in real life and where she was this
summer know that the
accusations lobbed at her not
only ridiculous, but impossible.
Your witch hunt against her is
over, and some of you owe her a
big, fat apology.
You don't have to believe
anything you read here, but I'll
let you know that I'm not
posting this without some other
real, honest and credible reddit
friends backing me up. I'll let
them decide if they want to tag
themselves before I do it.
Doocurly
ETA:* If you are on the sock list
associated with Jane, sorry, this
post ain't for you to air your
grievances. Take it up in another
sub and tell the world who you
are.
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[] theghostoftexschramm
18 points 1 day ago
Hmmmm.....three of these people in your post sent me IMs in the last 24. Should I be
worried?
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[] InTheory_
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2 points 8 hours ago
I am not one of those. Was I supposed to? Did I miss a stage queue?
We should have all rehearsed this better. Now I feel left out.
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[] splanchnick78
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19 points 1 day ago* (las t edited 1 day ago)
ETA: I deleted this.

ETA: I am un-deleting. Deleteanddeplete is most assuredly not EP.
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[] Barking_Madness
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9 points 1 day ago
FWICT that's a pretty safe bet.

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[] whitenoise2323
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9 points 1 day ago
Yup.
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[] Frosted_Mini-Wheats
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Boote dfrom Le ak inPark R ange rs:(
3 points 1 day ago
Fwiw, I don't believe tha eithert. Deleteanddeplete was recommended for

membership in NU by EP (as were you) as someone who had done some
interesting research. I do not believe EP is any other poster.
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[] doocurly
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Moddy McMode rton [S] 1 point 1 day ago
Some screenshots of PMs I've seen make the case that they are one in the same.
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[] Barking_Madness
4 points 1 day ago
Will you be posting them?

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[] doocurly
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Moddy McMode rton [S] -1 points 1 day ago
Meh, I don't think I need to. I'm not in any sub with EP anymore now
that I've been booted from the Program. Apparently, nobody puts
Queen Baby in a corner, so if she wants to work it out, she can. If she
doesn't, who cares? If D&D is really just a super awesome research
assistant who happened to think the same exact MVA theory that
/u/synchrolux
and EP have, then chalk it up to coincidence.
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[] splanchnick78
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11 points 1 day ago
Just curious why you think EP would even need a sock?

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[] LipidSoluble
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I would assume to help the science be swallowed a lot

easier. The people claiming to have titles in the field have
some hitchy hitchy claims in regards to medicine. Also in
how they cite legal briefs in lieu of peer reviewed evidence
while failing to understand how one medical claim on stand
does not make a citable scientific source.
I watched so many questionable claims pass through as
verified, I eventually gave up pointing out the discrepancies.
But what do I know. I only work for a living, I don't have a
"popular" podcast.
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[] ScoutFinch2
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I watched so many questionable claims pass

through as verified,
Oh, I really wish you would expound.
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[] LipidSoluble
I already did until I was blue in the face! To

sum: I don't think science works the way they
say it does.
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[] ImBlowingBubbles
I appreciate your comments and have

respected your debate on the medical
issues.
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[] LipidSoluble
Thank you! I wish the medicine gave

a clearer picture of what happened,
but it just doesn't. That's partly why
I still sit firmly in the undecided
camp. Does that camp still exist
anymore?
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[] LipidSoluble
Okay, I lied. Google mixed lividity, and it will give

you an idea where the term originates, and it's
not from a medical text.
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[] ScoutFinch2
Ha, I don't even have to google. I already

know whos name (blog) I going to see.
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[] LipidSoluble
Name, blog, and Reddit posts that fill

up the entire first page of Google.
No need to look further. The wiki
explanation of an actual medical term
will come up on the first page.
Not like it even takes that much
effort to make up your own wiki
page about it.
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[] bluekanga
Wow I just did - wow!!
Invent a term and away you go

Thx for the insight
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[] LipidSoluble
I can give leeway to EP for not

knowing the proper medical term for
something and naming it something
else, but suddenly there's all these
people that EP referred to the sub
that are supposed pathologists or in
the field, and they're all using the
same bogus medical term.
Are they talking about a varying
pattern of lividity, or petechial
hemorrhages .. I don't know!
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[] TheHerodotusMachine
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Are you returning from your posting hiatus? Will you

be participating for Season 2? /u/doocurly
mentioned you as someone who spoke out against
the nonsense and it'd be nice to have you guys
returning to the main sub to drown out the trolls (=
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[] LipidSoluble
Maybe! As Doo and company will tell you, I have

very little tolerance for people's nonsense! At
time it feels more like pounding my head against
a brick wall than it does interesting fact-sharing
and discussion.
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[] YaYa2015
I always liked your comments and nononsense approach. Too bad you left, but
I understand.
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[] LipidSoluble
Thank you! When I noticed myself

being caustic and sarcastic more
than I was participating in legitimate
conversation, it was time to move
on! (Until now, and username
mentions).
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hours ago
4 points 15
What YaYa said.

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[] doocurly
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Moddy McMode rton [S] 3 points 1 day ago
I don't know. Ask why D&D showed up when SynchroLux

disappeared. Ask why they claimed ownership to the MVA
theory, and then:
[]XXXXXXXXX [F] 11 points 5 months ago After all the
recent posts lately, you need to treat me like I'm stupid
and I don't know anything... but are we still sure she was
strangled? permalinksavereportgive goldreply
[]EvidenceProfEP [F,S] 11 points 5 months ago Every
medical expert seems convinced that she was strangled.
There's an interesting alternate theory about Hae dying in
a car accident, but I can't get anyone on board with that
theory. It does seem possible, though, that Hae was
injured in a car crash and then strangled.
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[]XXXXXXX [F] 5 points 5 months ago I had a discussion
about this accident theory yesterday. What would this look
like? Are you assuming she died of the injuries sustained in
the accident, or that she was hit to get access? If it's the
former, why bury her? And for either possibility, why go
through the trouble of fixing a car in a body shop if that
would just get people into more trouble (i.e., charged for
murder instead of accident)? Or are you thinking that this
happened after the car discovery?
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[]EvidenceProfEP [F,S] 3 points 5 months ago This theory
is still very much a work in progress. I'll let everyone know
if it amounts to anything. permalinksaveparentreportgive
goldreply
Ask why all the autopsy posts and car posts were leading
to the idea of a MVA accident, and why these three users,
one who disappeared were the only ones who were pushing
it.
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[] glibly17
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14 points 1 day ago
Who knows why??? Who cares why? People delete

reddit handles and get knew ones all the time, for any
and every reason. I deleted my first handle after I'd
had it four years because I was worried about that
amount of info being out there, for instance.
Nothing you've presented or said so far is at all
indicative that EP and D&D are the same person. I'm
chastising myself for saying anything because it's all
so dumb, but you're literally doing exactly what
you've accused others of doing to FMW & other
users. This speculation about socks and bullshit is
just to distract from the actual case and advances
being made. I'm guilty for participating, I know, but
honestly why waste energy with all this bs?
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children)
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[] stop_saying_right
2 points 1 day ago
damn he (EP) is a nut, what an enigma

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[] glibly17
10 points 1 day ago
Do you reject the possibility that EP may have just seen D&D's
posts on reddit and thought it was an interesting angle to
explore?
Aren't your accusations as bad, or whatever, as what you're
saying everyone did to FMW?
Also: why does it matter even if they are the same person? Are
either reddit handles going around disseminating other redditors'
personal info, doxxing people, whatever?
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[] doocurly
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You're right, there's no one saying that they have definitive

proof that EP and DD are one in the same. Until someone
does post that, it's speculation based on some other
information.
Does that make the accusation bad? Not necessarily.
Everyone is allowed to make other alt users on reddit as
long as they are following reddit's guidelines. What makes
it bad is when they are in fact the same person and are
talking and carrying on whole lines of dialogue with each
other. What makes it bad is when someone is flat out
accusing others of being "moles" or "spies" or having
duplicitous intentions. Do I think it's bad to hang the
laundry on the line to dry today? Nope. If someone has the
balls enough to create a post accusing everyone of being
socks, then pot, meet kettle.
Do you have to like it? Nope. You can feel however about
the post, me or otherwise.
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[] glibly17
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11 points 1 day ago
It's just hypocritical, in my view. But hey. I don't

expect you to care about that.
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[] Barking_Madness
7 points 1 day ago
So you've released all these screen caps, information

and allegations.You aapparently don't care about the
fall out as this stuff needed saying - but then you
won't go the extra half yard and show the one piece
of iinformation you believe makes the case they are
the the same poster? Instead you say the duty for
others to work it out.
I guess that's your choice, but you should know it
looks poor.
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[] doocurly
ago
Moddy McMode rton [S] 0 points 1 day
I'm sorry, what fallout exactly? Doesn't seem

there is any.
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[] Barking_Madness
7 points 1 day ago
Right, so all these replies and people

offering their views based on your claims
are just my imagination then?
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[] doocurly
Moddy McMode rton [S] 0
points 17 hours ago
fallout- noun
an unexpected or incidental effect,
outcome, or product: the
psychological fallout of being obese
You'll have to show me where
there's been an incidental effect,
outcome or product produced by
this post. Short of that, it's people
commenting, which doesn't equal
"fallout".
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[] tuppence_beresford
Boote d from TMP :(
23 points 1 day ago
I can at least speak to my experience as a mod on the very first day of TMP. Someone
thought the Jane information was important enough to warn the mods about, and
when I wanted to discuss the allegations and a solution going forward, I was overruled
by alwaysbelagertha and ultimately removed from mod duties for disagreeing. That
approach and attitude was extended to every portion of TMP over time, and long-time
contributors were removed left and right for speaking their minds. The sad part is that
no one could know what was going on unless the booted person went to another
forum to tell everyone what happened. Then they were labelled as pot-stirrers and the
mods would say, "Oh look, see? That person was a problem all along. We made the
right decision."
Sadly, there wasn't any other way to handle being removed other than remaining quiet.
Sound familiar? Does it sound like every other totalitarian dictatorship in history? Yeah,
to me too. Meanwhile, few still inside TMP wanted to speak up even if they didn't agree
with the way things were being handled for fear of being removed themselves.
It's been sad to see the poor leadership at TMP, and even worse to be removed from
the community I've been a part of for so many months for no good reason.
Thanks for bringing all this out into the open, doo. Maybe now we can have a real
conversation about it.
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[] dukeofwentworth
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It's been sad to see the poor leadership at TMP, and even worse to be
removed from the community I've been a part of for so many months for no
good reason.
Right?
While I have moved on, this post reminds me of the time I was accused of being a
sock for Ghostoftomlandry or whatever. Zero proof, but I was accused just the
same. And when I went public to address it, I had the post removed and received
a PM admonition from the mods (specifically, ABL).
ETA: Following this post, I've been removed from TMP.
ETA: I've been readmitted to TMP.
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[] doocurly
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"We don't boot people from TMP because they question us!"- ABL
promptly boots dukeofwentworth from TMP
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[] wayobsessed
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Also the exact reason why I got booted. "I will be honest with you,
some of your comments on the magnet rang alarm bells for me".
The comment ABL was referring to was me being critical about the
baseless sock accusations flying around all over TMP by the mods.
After explaining my post and how it may have been misconstrued I
was asked to doxx myself in order to get access again. And that
wasn't really worth it for me because I did not see the point. It's okay
to disagree with TMP as long as they know how to find me?
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I'm sorry. I'm sure you know, but you can report the user asking
you to self-dox to Reddit Admin. As /u/swveering
said, that is
certainly not cool.
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[] SWVeering
I was asked to doxx myself in order to get access again. And

that wasn't really worth it for me because I did not see the
point. It's okay to disagree with TMP as long as they know
how to find me?
Yikes. THAT is not cool.
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[] jjungsch
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8 points 1 day ago
Wow that is a clear signal for no one else to speak up, what a shame. Sorry
you had to deal with that kind of stuff.
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[] ScoutFinch2
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6 points 1 day ago
And you actually want back in?

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[] reddit1070
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Haha :)
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[] flwrsme
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8 points 1 day ago
TMP = Korea!
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[] MightyIsobel
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2 points 1 day ago
Hey, a lot of people think Korea is a nice place

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[] ricejoe
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4 points 1 day ago
Well, the part below the DMZ.

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4 points 1 day ago
An important distinction!
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[] MightyIsobel
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2 points 1 day ago
You can say that again

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2 points 1 day ago
An important distinction!
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[] MightyIsobel
3 points 1 day ago
This thread feels kind of like a DMZ.

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[] whitenoise2323
4 points 1 day ago
A TMZ DMZ.
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[] reddit1070
This thread feels kind of like a

DMZ.
Haha :)
Looks like you all had a lot of fun
yesterday. I missed it.
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2 points 1 day ago
Ha, true!
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[] flwrsme
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4 points 1 day ago
Im sure they do. I was just trying to be funny. =)

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[] InTheory_
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8 points 1 day ago
ETA: Following this post, I've been removed from TMP.

That's impossible. They don't ban people for that. I know this because
they've told us so at every opportunity.
Each day, fewer and fewer people are left over there to repeat the mantra of
"No, people don't get banned for that." And each day, there are more and
more people saying, "Actually, yes they do!"
At what point do we realize that the number of people coming forward citing
hypocrisy is outnumbering the people denying it?
For anyone reading this who is out of the loop, I can personally vouch that
duke was anything but a dissident.
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6 points 1 day ago
Duke just got re-admitted!

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[] LIL_CHIMPY
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3 points 1 day ago* (las t edited 2 2 hours ago)
I spied /u/dukeofwentworth
conspiring with the forces of Darkness to
bewitch poor innocent Adnangail. /u/Goody_Proctor
was there as well.
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[] SWVeering
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ETA: I've been readmitted to TMP.

Hi Duke - long time! Still a member?
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[] dukeofwentworth
lol...
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[] YaYa2015
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Weird, if you click on SWVeering you get "page not found".

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Welp, /u/SWVeering
why...
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[] InTheory_
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Boote d from TMP :(
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was shadowbanned! 3 guesses

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I guess we have our response from the mods. What

did they do? Throw every name they had at the
admins and hoped something stuck? The number of
wrong accusations by them is truly astounding.
As the title of the post says, "shoot everyone and
assume you killed the one who wronged you."
If they're going to try to get people shadowbanned, it
makes it real hard for anyone to just walk away. It
sucks the very people who are trying to get away
from all of it right back into it. Classic TMP move. Drag
them back in, then ascribe motives of pettiness

afterwards.
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[] SWVeering
It's been sad to see the poor leadership at TMP, and even worse to be
removed from the community I've been a part of for so many months for no
good reason.
Late to the party as per usual but I guess here is as good a place as any in this
thread to start.
FWIW and for anyone who cares to listen, Tup_Beresford's story is basically my
story also. I was removed from TMP and was told by /u/alwaysbelagertha
that
it was because FrostedMiniWheats had "harassed her" on a thread in
SerialDiscussion and because I was a former NU Mod apparently that equalled a
"conflict of interest" (WTF?!) I asked her not to include me in her personal
drama's with other Redditors and then she told me my banning had also to do
with a snarky comment I supposedly made about her. I couldn't remember ever
saying anything snarky to her so I asked TMP friends to check my posting history
and they couldn't find a single thing. I asked ABL several times to remind me of
the "snarky comment" on TMP but she never produced anything because quite
frankly, it doesn't exist there.
No chance to pled my case. No acknowledgement of the help I offered and gave
when TMP was established. I'm also another one that warned ABL about the Sock
Situation which she obviously ignored. Yet apparently TMP's ongoing mole woes
have everything to do with other Redditors and nothing to do with her decision to
disregard the many warnings she received.
Being cut off from a community that I was part of and enjoyed for so long, for
want of a better word, sucks. It's both sad and hilarious that ABL can't see the
hypocrisy in her actions.
TL;DR - yet another person with a hurt butt.
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[] orangetheorychaos
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Why don't all the banned tmp people just start another sub?
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[] InTheory_
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You mean revive NU with members who are all banned from TMP?
Already done. The TMP mods tried to get the Reddit admins to forcibly
take control of the sub. They felt it was "theirs"
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whaaat. man you guys were very legitimately harassed. So sorry.

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[] doocurly
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You're welcome Tupp. My intention was to show that the mass-hysteria and
finger-pointing was not only wrong, but that all the warning signs right in front of
their faces was being missed. The contradictions in values was extraordinary with
the constant allegations of doxxing, but no real questioning the ethics if it was
done by someone on Team Good Guys. The constant allegations of sock puppetry
and heinous behavior was embarrassing, especially considering that more and
more socks kept sliding under the door at TMP. Show your proof, Magnets. Put
up or shut up.
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[] julieannie
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12 points 1 day ago
I was a little miffed when the mass booting happened from both subs but now I feel like
I was lucky to miss out on all of this. I really don't understand why everyone keeps
using coded language though. Just say what you mean and be who you are. This is why
I'm a lurker now.
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[] MrsTiggyWiggy
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15 points 1 day ago
I hate myself for not documenting all the drama associated with serialpodcast and
writing a social psychology article.
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[] bluekanga
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8 points 1 day ago
Me 2 - today on serialpodcast..
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[] cross_mod
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4 points 1 day ago
Yeah, it is incredibly entertaining at least...

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[] MrsTiggyWiggy
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704 comments! There aren't many threads about the actual case that got
this much commentary.
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[] TheFraulineS
6 points 1 day ago
No kidding! I was seriously entertaining the thought, if I could just scratch the
topic of my dissertation to change it into something about this reddit
phenomenon in general.
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[] MrsTiggyWiggy
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6 points 1 day ago
And it would be so publishable! The media loves talking about reddit.

Every time the secret subs, the sock puppets, the doxxing comes along--I
think "darn it, I should have been documenting this but too late now". And,
then something else happens!
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5 points 1 day ago
Yeah :( it's impossible to create a coherent and truthfull picture with all
these conspiracy theories and the deceit....
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5 points 1 day ago* (las t edited
1 day ago)
Like I, with all my allegedly insidery sockery information, haven't been trying
to get a grant for months!
I hope no one will assume you are me or I am you since I dared to respond
to a nasty, quilter sort of redditor like you :/
BTW, I saw a post where you used frmdschamen the other day. Learned
that word from a German friend - it's so useful! And applies so often here
on reddit.
ETA a comma
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9 points 1 day ago
Hehe, Fremdschmen is an awesome term ;)

Any hope that one of you guys will share the audio files of all the police
interviews with a "nasty, quilter sort of redditor" like me? I know of at
least one member who has definitely listened to them, who is not part
of ASLT.
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7 points 1 day
I do not have access. I am, per alwaysbelagertha (aka Queen

Baby) and her minions, a nasty guilter sock troll. There's plenty
of other somewhat interesting stuff from NU I could have shared
during these last 5 or 6 months but I haven't in spite of being
the most evil guilter trollmole ever. In fact, there were never any
leaks out of NarcoticsUnit. Those didn't start until Queen Baby
took over. Oh wait...I feel a leap to a conclusion coming on...
alwaysbelagertha is the TMP mole! :/
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[] MrsTiggyWiggy
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7 points 1 day ago
Have you read "When Prophecy Fails?" by Festinger? A group of social

psychologists infiltrate a doomsday cult and document what happens
when the prophesied apocalypse never happens. The book is great but
one of the major criticisms is that so many social psychologists
infiltrated the group that it was basically 50% researchers and 50%
real cult members.
If I reviewed your grant, you'd be bank.
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[] ricejoe
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8 points 1 day ago
Great story. I read once that at one point (the 1960s?)

undercover FBI agents were a significant proportion of KKK
membership. Everybody, however, knew who they were, because
they actually paid their dues.
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[] StraightTalkExpress
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6 points 1 day ago
Haha, similar deal with the communist party in the USA.

By the mid-1950s, membership of Communist Party USA
had slipped from its 1944 peak of around 80,000[42] to an
active base of approximately 5,000.[43] Some 1,500
of these "members" were FBI informants.[44]
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[] LIL_CHIMPY
Likewise, 48 Hours/Dateline/et al. have persuaded me

that a contract killing is an agreement reached
between a disgruntled, middle-aged man and an FBI
agent in the parking lot of a suburban strip mall, the
result of which is completely at odds with the
intended purpose of murdering an ex-wife.
And don't even get me started on 14-year-old
internet Lolita's with spacious kitchens and minimal
parental supervision -- /u/janecc
's pathetic
attempts at sockery tremble before the mighty Chris
Hansen ...
edit: needed an adjective

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[] Seamus_Duncan
Klan Rally 70 Per Cent Undercover Reporters.

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[] ricejoe
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Love it. So funny on so many levels.

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[] whitenoise2323
2 points 1 day ago
So it was just the FBI and cops, huh..

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-1 points 1 day ago
Lost?
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[] ScoutFinch2
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24 points 1 day ago
For all that you all criticize us (guilters), I can honestly say we don't have none of this
shit going on.
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[] dirtybitsxxx
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16 points 1 day ago
Remember that one time someone posted something that not all of us agreed
with and we politely agreed to disagree but thanked them for the effort? Wild
times.
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11 points 1 day ago
Sounds really similar to the first time the MVA theory came up in Bonner.
Except "not all of us" was "none of us".
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[] A DDGemini
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8 points 1 day ago
What is the MVA theory if you don't mind me asking.

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[] ImBlowingBubbles
3 points 1 day ago
I was wondering this same thing

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[] whitenoise2323
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Motor Vehicle Accident theory. Someone popped up saying

that Stephanie hit Hae's car and killed her by accident and
hyped it hard saying that it made all of the weird puzzling
aspects of the case make sense. It was brought up in
Bonner and everyone was like... um.. I guess that's
interesting but here's 10 ways it makes no sense at all.
There is an unsubstantiated claim that this was Evidence
Prof's pet theory. I have no idea why people think that.
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[] A DDGemini
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5 points 1 day ago
Thank you
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[] dirtybitsxxx
6 points 1 day ago
Appreciate the clarification. Ive been doing a ton of

weird acronym guessing.
Most Valuable Athlete?
Manual Vacuum Aspiration?
Music Video Award?
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[] bluekanga
4 points 1 day ago
Most valuable asset

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[] ImBlowingBubbles
3 points 1 day ago
Thanks.
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[] flwrsme
13 points 1 day ago
Right?? Im reading this like holly fuck! And then hoping to not see anyone like you
or SD or JWI mentioned in this fuckery... and no one is.

IDK.. if the "innocent" camp needs to go thru all this just to prove innocence, I
would stop trying to smear the state and BPD for the exact stuff they are doing.
SS should be ashamed of herself.
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9 points 1 day ago
And then hoping to not see anyone like you or SD or JWI mentioned in
this fuckery... and no one is.
I wasn't worried about it for a second.
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[] Tu-Stultus-Es
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10 points 1 day ago
Maybe we should get together and do a trade. Anything you guys want to unload
in exchange for taking this bullshit off our hands?
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13 points 1 day ago
Not a chance.
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10 points 1 day ago
seconded!! too good to watch

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[] Tu-Stultus-Es
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6 points 1 day ago
Yeah, I don't blame you.

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[] peymax1693
Ve rification is for Suck s
7 points 1 day ago
Me either . . .
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9 points 1 day ago
You can still turn away from the dark and come into the
light, peymax.
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7 points 1 day ago
Ha - I can't do it.
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[] ScoutFinch2
3 points 1 day ago
Well you can't say I haven't tried. I still like you
peymax.
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[] peymax1693
points 1 day ago
And I you, Ms. Finch.

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[] Tu-Stultus-Es
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4 points 1 day ago
We actually have a whole different vocabulary for

that.
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[] Mrs_Direction
5 points 1 day ago
Care to share? Is it something negative to

shame those who change their opinion?
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[] Tu-Stultus-Es
2 points 1 day ago
Just a "light/dark"/"dark/light" joke.

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[] budgiebudgie
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1 point 1 day ago
Please, Scout. I'm begging you. We can do a swap at midnight on a

bridge somewhere.
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[] ricejoe
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5 points 1 day ago
Glienicke bridge in Berlin is a good location.

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[] LIL_CHIMPY
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There's a mole right at the top of TMP. He's been there for
years ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW-F1H-Nonk
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[] ricejoe
You got it, chimpy!

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[] budgiebudgie
2 points 1 day ago
Glienicke bridge in Berlin is a good location.

Precisely the spot I had in mind.
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[] julieannie
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10 points 1 day ago
I suppose you don't quite have the socking going on but there's some people
who have conspiracy theories and a heightened sense of self-importance on that
side of the aisle. I used to be part of TMP/NU but didn't participate enough and
got booted so I missed all this stuff. The guilters seem content to put it all on the
main sub while the other side seems to hide some of their crazier moments a little
better. Both sides and their drama are the reason I switched to lurker only.
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[] Sophiawithin
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7 points 1 day ago
The other side saves their crazy stuff for their podcasts.
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[] chunklunk
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14 points 1 day ago
Guilty as charged on the self-importance front. I AM SUPER IMPORTANT.

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1 point 1 day ago
I believe that you believe that.

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[] MightyIsobel
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9 points 1 day ago
while the other side seems to hide some of their crazier moments a little
better
you don't say
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[] TheFraulineS
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12 points 1 day ago
btw, full body tinfoil wrap-meeting in 15 minutes

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6 points 1 day ago
Yea!
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4 points 1 day
It's not a body wrap! You have to have a tinfoil canoe, to row
down Dead Run creek and gather rocks.
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[] Seamus_Duncan
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13 points 1 day ago
I know right? I like all of the guilters, except for /u/chunklunk

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[] TheFraulineS
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10 points 1 day ago
Yankee!
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7 points 1 day ago
You can shove that negativity straight into your pointy hat!
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7 points 1 day ago
Haha, I thought I was a Hun to you?! Liar! Get the hat right or
else....!
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[] chunklunk
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11 points 1 day ago
Silence or I will reveal all our secrets!!!

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[] ricejoe
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17 points 1 day ago
NOT THE HANDSHAKE!!!!!!!

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-2 points 1 day ago
Silence or I will reveal all our secrets!!!

What, that you're the same person?
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[] chunklunk
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Lame attempt to turn the tables, when TMP's Sock Puppet

Theater today has been such a smashing success. This
bloodbath is like the end of Hamlet. Or maybe more like the end
of Dead Alive. Who knows? But this shit is fun.
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[] A ktow
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12 points 1 day ago
Lame is right......me think they doth protest too much. I

mean, their endless allegations of puppetry has become
idiotic.
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21 points 1 day ago
I know, it's like, no matter how accurate doocurly's

list is (and the funny thing is it doesn't even scratch
the surface of all the summer/mutton socks, which
still persist and plague the dark sub), you have janecc
actually admitting to mass sockhood and seemingly
vowing to keep it up using tor browsers and paid-for
IP masking tech, posting a ban-evasion FAQ and shit.
That alone is totally nuts!!! I would deserve to get my
head examined if I did any of that to post on these
dumb subs as chunkysockmonkey51535 or whatever.
I mean, it's incredible -- WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE
DOING? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? WHY
CAN'T YOU JUST DISCUSS THE CASE LIKE NORMAL
PEOPLE?
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[] A ktow
11 points 1 day ago
No, they can't. The vast difference in the quality

of writing and substance is where the problem
lies. Guilters just happen to have a loaded
roster with a helluva bullpen to boot.....and it
infuriates them
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[] doocurly
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Right? To brag about how you are socking

around but then deny it? So. fucking. weird.
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[] chunkysockmonkey5153
3 points 1 day ago
I would deserve to get my head examined if I

did any of that to post on these dumb subs
as chunkysockmonkey51535 or whatever.
Too late bitch!
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[] A DDGemini
6 points 1 day ago
How the hell did that just happen? Isn't

there like a 3 day wait to post?
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7 points 1 day
Ha Ha!. How amazing would it be if

this was a coincidence of all
coincidences?! I'd still laugh if
someone made that sock just to
make that joke at the right
opportunity.
Eta: Oh my god it really might be
just a coincidence. It's only a
number off
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[] Mustanggertrude
4 points 1 day ago
that's only in the big house.

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[] A cies I'm fairly glad he dox x e d him se lf

[-2] 2 points 1 day ago
That's exclusive to /r/serialpodcast

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[] TheFraulineS
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6 points 1 day ago
Wrong numbers!
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[] Tu-Stultus-Es
6 points 1 day ago
What a piece of work is a sock, how fatuous in reason, how

infinite in duplicity...
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[] beenyweenies
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comment score below threshold (1 child)
0 points 1 day ago
Bullshit the DS is chock-full of socks.

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[] donailin1
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5 points 1 day ago
What is DS?
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[] bluekanga
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5 points 1 day ago
Dark Sub i.e. the Main Sub

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[] whitenoise2323
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9 points 1 day ago
Since we're being weirdly honest and non-partisan (sort of) in

this thread can I just say that I have always hated the term
"dark sub"?
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[] dirtybitsxxx
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10 points 1 day ago
You are fired from TMP for expressing that opinion.

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[] whitenoise2323
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I'm still there. I guess it didn't matter.

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[] bluekanga
AFAIK it always used to be referred to as the the Main

Sub - and it's a reflection of the hostility on SP IMO
that allowed it to become to the norm.
So unless we collectively get a grip and tone me down
the hostilities, I guess it will remain.
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[] dirtybitsxxx
You are also fired.

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[] bluekanga
Thank God! ;)
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1 point 43 m inute s ago
Why can't we just call it the Yellow Sub?

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4 points 1 day ago
wow, I'm embarrassed. I truly am out of the loop.

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[] Tu-Stultus-Es
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8 points 1 day ago
Yeah, but they're not at war with each other; they at least have the good
sense to hate a common enemy.
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[] peymax1693
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4 points 1 day ago
Doocurly was a cheerleader for hating on the DS but I guess the

enemy of my enemy is my friend.
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11 points 1 day ago
Right, summer's socks, janecc's socks, etc...

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[] chunklunk
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13 points 1 day ago
I knew it!
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[] TheFraulineS
Popcorn time!
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[] chunklunk
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9 points 1 day ago
I am literally eating popcorn as we speak.

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[] A ktow
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8 points 1 day ago
Like MJ in Thriller?
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[] chunklunk
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10 points 1 day ago
YES!
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[] TrunkPopPop
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1 point 1 day ago
http://i.imgur.com/ht3mkda.gifv
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[] segovius
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6 points 1 day ago
Me too
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[] doocurly
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Just curious...which part?

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[] segovius
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14 points 1 day ago
That TMP was/is full of socks.

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[] doocurly
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Sadly, yes. Quite the puppet show it would seem. Let them
figure out why, I guess.
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[] segovius
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12 points 1 day ago
Yes, there are decent people there and that's good but
they forget to factor in one thing, they are dealing
peripherally with un-decent people.
There's a Sufi saying that goes something like "If you pick
up a bee due to kindness, you will learn the limitations of
kindness."
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[] dukeofwentworth
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There's a Sufi saying that goes something like "If

you pick up a bee due to kindness, you will learn
the limitations of kindness."
I like this!
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4 points 1 day ago
Interesting response from segovius. While TMP might be full of socks,

what is and always has been wrong is that those socks are me or
anyone associated with me. It seems like a stroke of genius for ABL to
accuse me of being those socks (external threat creates internal
cohesion, yeah?) - creating a bond in TMP, whose members already
reviled me for "killing" NarcoticsUnit (which I never actually did, just
curated the membership a bit more thoughtfully). I don't think it was
ABL being a sociological genius but ABL being led around by the nose
by the true queen of socks.
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[] timdragga
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13 points 1 day ago
So I did get removed from NU! This is all about me!

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-3 points
It is about you! I am starting a new subreddit right now so

that all my minions and I can talk about how you are to
blame for everything - including global warming.
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[] doocurly
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And ISIS.
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[] peymax1693
12 points 1 day ago
Oh, so you didn't shut NU down, you just excluded a ton of

people, including people like me who weren't socks but weren't
deemed worthy of inclusion.
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1 point 1
Exactly, peymax. As much as some people don't like it - my

sub, my choice. You spent 90% of your time on the "vent"
thread anyway, complaining about the Dark Sub that you
couldn't stay off of (because you like arguing?). What
exactly did you contribute to NU? You have access to the
entire database of everything that was ever posted on NU
(which was posted to a google drive with no password
protection and the url handed out on TMP like Halloween
candy, including to the alleged socks). NU was my idea, it
wasn't intellectual property of The Bonner Party, and when
I chose smart, productive redditors to go forward with you
weren't invited. Be butt-hurt or get over it. Makes no
difference to me.
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15 points 1 day ago
Thanks for reinforcing my opinion of you. I'm glad to

know I wasn't wrong.
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-5 points 1 day ago
Lol, you're cute.

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[] peymax1693
points 1 day ago
10
And you're nuts.

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[] LipidSoluble
Nuts for what exactly? Shutting

down a subreddit that had become
toxic - yes, the entire subreddit, not
shunting people off fractions at a
time with finger pointing and
accusations?
Cutting the strings of the entire sub
because people started to get nasty
-without bias- is exactly what a sane
person does.
The 4 months of private messages
that I've received (despite the fact
that I quit as a mod over there a
long time ago) from people who have

gotten banned or accused of
sockpuppety, spying, differing
opinions trying to plea their cases or
ask what they did wrong? That's
what's nuts.
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day ago* (las t edited 1 day ago)
-3 points 1
My what?
ETA oh that jerk peymax. S/he
knows damn well s/he posted Your
nuts. Then s/he edited it and ruined
my joke. Fucking reddit. Fucking
Internet. Fucking private sub
followers ;)
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[] cbr1965
8 points 1 day ago
Wow, Frosted, glad to see you are still around. I think

the biggest question was what happened, not that
you didn't have the right to do it. Some of us were
actually worried about you because it closed so
abruptly.
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2 points 1 day ago
Hey, cbr, thanks for your message. I've spent

the last few months on a beautiful coast
somewhere pissing away a big bonus check :)
I appreciate that some were concerned about
me and I understand why many were angry. I
can't fix anything now but I hope someone gets
to the bottom of the crazy in the Syed case.
Keep up the good fight. I'm using my special
sleuthy skills strictly to earn a living these days
but I'm always cheering you on!
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[] cbr1965
5 points 1 day ago
We should all be so lucky with the beach

and bonus check but, seriously, glad all is
well in your world!
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day ago
4 points 1
Yes, everyone should be rewarded

for their hard work with money and a
long vacation! There's no luck
involved. I hope all is well with you
too.
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[] beenyweenies
12 points 1 day ago
Wow that's interesting. I was always courteous and

friendly with you, and I thought I contributed to the
discussion pretty well. I even PM'd you about the
closure and you never let on. All this time I was just
banned?
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3 points 1 day ago
No one was banned ever except for 2 users

and, if you were in NU,you know who those
folks were. You were uninvited along with a lot
of other people. I remember you posting
occasionally. I remember talking with you about
messages we got from the MVA theorist. I am
sorry if people's feelings are hurt because they
were uninvited. You all got a new sub with a
moderator that Susan Simpson chose. I gave
access to NU to a couple of former members so
they could get their posts. They managed to
get (and publish) everything that was ever
posted on NU. I don't expect nor am I asking
anyone to understand why ai did what I did.

What flummoxes me is why, 6 months later, is
it still a big fucking deal? I'm a bitch who only
wanted a couple of dozen people in my private
sub. You all got a new sub with a moderator
everyone loves and access to everything from
NU. What's the problem?
If you decided to create a private sub and only
include your best buds, you wouldn't invite me
would you? But you and others think you have
the right to rake me over the coals for deciding
who I want to reddit with.
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[] beenyweenies
18 points 1 day ago
Woah easy there, I'm not raking ANYONE

over the coals. Just reacting to this new
information.
In terms of creating a private sub for you
and your friends, have at it. Who's
arguing that? But when it starts off as a
much broader effort, and suddenly you
decide to clean house and destroy the
whole thing over personal issues, don't
expect everyone who contributed to be
perfectly cool with it.
You say a few people were given access,
well good for THEM. Everyone else lost
every ounce of effort that went into that
sub - those posts are GONE, can't be
searched, no longer part of the record.
You basically forced everyone to start over
RATHER THAN just handing NU to
someone else within the group and
starting a new private sub.
I guess the problem is evident - you saw it
as YOUR sub, not OUR sub.
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[] ginabmonkey
19 points 1 day ago*
(las t edited 9 hours ago)
Edit to add that I can no longer

post in this sub, so any replies to
comments I've made in this thread
will likely not result in a reply from

me unless done privately.
I agree very much with
/u/beenyweenies
here about this.
I had just begun to get comfortable
with being a member in the NU sub
and actually post questions and
thoughts about the case there when
it was shut down without any
warning or communication. It would
have been nice to have gotten a fair
warning that the sub owner was
wanting to scale it down to only
those she had bonded with and
given the rest of us an opportunity
to ask about the possibility of
leaving the NU sub as it was and
creating a new one instead of just
kicking most of us out without
access to our posts or comments, or
to at least have time to do
something with our own posts to
save them. The archive TMP ended
up with is almost useless.
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[] julieannie
18 points 1 day ago
I think part of the issue was your lack of

ability to communicate or to communicate
without hostility. You also saw a private
community as something you owned
rather than a community and
collaboration. The reason people still care
all this time later is because you failed to
communicate what you did and why you
did it.
You mismanaged a community from the
get-go (inviting people you didn't want or
allowing others to do it) and now you
want to yell at people about it who did
nothing wrong except get invited and then
kicked out by you. Actions have
consequences. That's life.

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day ago
-5 points 1
Hi julieannie, redditor of three years

with your total of 5 posts in
NarcoticsUnit and two posts ever on
Serialpodcast.
My mom ( who is truly brilliant) gave
me some great advice about getting
along in the world years ago
(probably before you were even
born) - don't offer advice unless it is
requested. I am fairly certain I never
asked you to weigh in on what I did
wrong or right as I don't even recall
ever seeing your /u/.
I am interested though, how many
communities have you founded and
managed? When it's at least one,
let's talk.
And yes, actions have consequences
- but there's reddit and there's life.
Perhaps you should get a clue about
the difference, julieannie. I'm not
yelling at anyone - except you, of
course
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[] segovius
4 points 1 day ago
I hope you know I'm not calling you on that or accusing you of
being a sock FMW.
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2 points 1
Thanks Segovius. I really am not certain what I know.
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[] doocurly
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Let them all tizzy about now. I have no intention of arguing with
anyone, and they can take away what they want from the post
(not meaning Segovius, but the rest of them). Seems most
enjoy being there for venting and talking shit, anyway.
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6 points 1 day ago
Just a small point--you told me that you shut the sub down.
Which I guess makes sense to say to those you "curate" out of
membership, but it was still a shitty thing to do with no warning.
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[] LipidSoluble
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See, the thing is, the sub WAS shut down, and possibly
temporarily. While it was shut down, the mods of NU
communicated with the mods of TMP so that everyone
could be told what happened. TMP agreed to operate until
NU possibly came back up. This is all well and good. Lines
of communication were open, and FMW let people in to
grab their own posts.
Except that people started slinging shit, the entirety of
every post was copied down and reported in a public area,
people started raining hell down on FMW's head for trying
to weed out the socks (raining down on her head all while
reasonlessly banning hoards of people from TMP for being
suspected spies/socks), all while a small group of people in
NU dug through everything trying to figure out where it all
went wrong and get back on track.
FMW locking the sub was not the problem. Were the
participants of TMP sane, level-headed people, NU would
have been able to root out the original problem of jane
socks and reopen the doors.
The problem was the vitriol, paranoia, underhanded tactics,
rumor-mongering, and public sharing of private information
that happened afterward, all shots fired from the bow of
TMP. Were I FMW (and I'm not before the accuations of
sockpuppetry start flying in my direction), faced with such
childish behavior, I would have said "screw you" and kept
the sub shut down too.
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2 points 1
Absolutely entitled to your own opinion, glibly. For a brief

moment, NU was actually shut down except for mods. Then
/u/whentheworldscollide
and /u/readybrek
reached
out to me, concerned about access to their own posts. I
said ok, come on in and get your posts. I hadn't really
thought about that but I should have. I was booted from
The Bonner Party because of bullshit drama and lost access
to my posts, like the one about Jay talking about Adnan
"acting like" he was carrying Hae's handbag, prancing
around and being silly, the one about whether Hae had an
active pager when she died, and the first comment ever,
anywhere about whether the detectives might have done a
data dump on some towers that might have led them to
Adnan and Jay. I had some empathy - sucks to lose your
own posts. What then happened was that someone gave
out their password and anyone who cared to could stroll
into NU and tab anything. Not a problem even then until
/u/lipidsoluble
revealed the entirety of NU had been
copied to a Google drive with no password protection and
the URL handed out like Halloween candy on TMP. I posted
fucking private information there as did many others and
didn't appreciate it being shared with the world at large.
Frankly I don't care that you think I did something shitty. I
think a lot of y'all have done way shittier things since and ai
can't imagine you give a flying fuck what I think.
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7 points 1 day ago
If you want your posts from Bonner I can PM them to

you. You never asked for access to those.
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3 points 1 day ago
Thanks but no. Lost interest ages ago.

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2 points 1 day ago
True. I don't care what you think, or anyone else. All

this drama is fascinating though. I could never
imagine reddit infringing on my meatspace life in this
way.
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1 point 1 day ago
It's fascinating in an academic sort of way for a

social scientisty sort of person like me. I'm not
sure what meatspace means but reddit has no
impact on my real life. I summered on the coast
and spent months without ever looking at
reddit. But when I start seeing /u/ mentions
and jackass accusations of sock puppetry, I'm
going to speak up. I think all but about 14
people involved in serial-reddit land are batshit
crazy and regret that I was involved. While I
don't care what you think though, I don't count
you among the purely crazy :)
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12 points 1 day ago
Booted member of TMP and Bonner here. Nothing to say but that this is a beautiful
shitshow.
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[] Tu-Stultus-Es
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5 points 1 day ago
What'd you do?

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[] slapplesauced
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11 points 1 day ago
Lurked too much, allegedly.

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[] Kforstmosaics
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9 points 1 day ago
I was booted from TMP for lurking too! And my rebuttal that actually
someone who posts a lot could be a sock puppet as well as a lurker fell
on deaf ears. There was some major paranoia goin round.
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9 points 1 day ago
In my case they said lurking when it was probably more as
retaliation for something someone else did. It was alarmingly

petty. But yeah, paranoia abounds in that sub. And you're totally
right that active users in there are just as likely to be socks as
the lurkers are.
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[] Tu-Stultus-Es
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5 points 1 day ago
Lurked
You lurk like that
, they put you in jail. Right away.
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3 points 1 day ago
The truth of the matter is that I was jailed for charging too high
prices for sweaters and glasses.
And undercooking fish.
I have no regrets.
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[] A DDGemini
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2 points 1 day ago
:D
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[] bluekanga
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9 points 1 day ago
Do we get to choose who to ban?

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[] doocurly
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Choose whatever you want in your own sub. Reddit is one, big Choose-YourOwn-Adventure book. Choose wisely.
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[] bluekanga
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8 points 1 day ago
Can you do this every week - sort of spectator event?

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[] doocurly
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Sorry, I'm afraid I don't have much else aside from gossip.
Additionally, after being told that people don't get booted from
/r/TheMagnetProgram for questioning with the mods, I was booted
from /r/TheMagnetProgram for questioning with the mods. Hard to
believe, right? I won't be privy to any more posts from
/u/theodoreadorno
wildly pointing fingers at anyone and everyone
of being a sock of /u/chunklunk
and /u/frosted_mini-wheats
.
God forbid anyone question the validity of her posts in there, though.
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11 points 1 day ago
Sounds like Big Brother - or Big Sister!!

Well we could meet for a weekly gossip - thing is I hate to spill
the beans - I don't know any Quilter socks - they're all real
people AFAIK - bound together in a common focus - the truth.
And it's great getting to know them as individuals and working
together on stuff - nice atmosphere.
So spill the beans - what's this thing with HarleyQuinn that the
socks (?) reacted to
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I have no idea what the deal was with harleyquinn aside

from that user being fingered as everyone ABL didn't like.
I'm sure that now that this has happened, I'm really
harleyquinn, which is impossible, because I'm really Frosted
Mini-Wheats, who is really Justwonderinif, who is really Jay
(or Urick) who is really the person who kidnapped Hae and
took her back to Korea and put a body in her stead
knowing that no DNA would be tested against her family
members when they found said body. Basically, I'm in a
relationship with reddit and it's complicated.
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7 points 1 day ago
So who's in TMP then apart from the socks?

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[] doocurly
ago
Colonel Mustard, Mrs. Peacock, Miss Scarlett,

Mrs. White, Mr. Green, Professor Plum and Mr.
Body.
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[] bluekanga
7 points 1 day ago
chicken ;)
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[] doocurly
points 1 day ago
That was sarcasm, not chickenism,

because who knows? I never took
inventory of who was in there. The
bloggers are there, the mods are
there, and a bunch of other people
who like the bloggers.
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[] doocurly
points 1 day ago
Actually, go to
/r/theundisclosedpodcast and look
for "bravo!" and "well said". That's
probably the easiest way to find
TMP's users.
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[] dcrizoss
3 points 1 day ago
You got a letter and you got a letter and

you got a letter...
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[] chunklunk
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5 points 1 day ago
Someone needs to set up a bracket. Or a Thunderdome.

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[] bluekanga
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3 points 1 day ago
What and put them all in it?

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[] chunklunk
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9 points 1 day ago
Well, looks like there would only be one or two actual people.
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[] bluekanga
2 points 1 day ago
LOL!! True :D
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[] whitenoise2323
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8 points 1 day ago
jane vs. une in the final battle.

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[] bluekanga
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6 points 1 day ago
But who is Jane - I know of Une and know they are

real - but Jane - anyone know them??
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[] whitenoise2323
4 points 1 day ago
I have moderately good reason to believe Jane

is a real human being. I'm not going to
elaborate.
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[] SWVeering
1 point 19 hours ago
I have moderately good reason to

believe Jane is a real human being.
Me also. And if she is who I am told she is
then HOLY SHIT. This all goes way way
deeper than any of us.
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[] [de le te d] 14 hours ago
[deleted]
[] whitenoise2323
The real human being I'm aware of is

not super nefarious. Someone on
here with a penchant for drama
might be playing up Jane's backstory out of paranoia or just the
entertainment of it all. But I guess
anything is possible.
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[] peymax1693
day ago
6 points 1
Doocurly knows all of them.

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[] doocurly
day ago
Moddy McMode rton [S] 7 points 1
Huge difference between knowing them

and knowing of them.
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[] Seamus_Duncan
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2 points 1 day ago
With seeding.
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[] Jefferson_A rbles
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19 points 1 day ago
This seems like a weird attempt to admonish reddit drama by dumping on a bunch more
reddit drama.
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[] doocurly
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I like how it's drama, when it's happening to Magnets, but it's standard operating
procedure and research when it's happening to anyone else.
Tell me Jefferson, were you equally as compelled to comment on the "drama"
posted in all of the sock theory posts in TMP?
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12 points 1 day ago
Yep, I do comment in discussions in TMP if I have a suspicion someone

might be a sock, or if I feel like I may have some sort of insight to add to a
discussion about socks. I also comment if I don't think someone is a sock
when it's theorized. As I'm sure people in other subs probably do in their
subs. I don't take any issue with people discussing or speculating who they
think might be socks on either side...and I don't take take issue with you
doing it either. What I think is disappointing is how you chose to do it. You
just dropped a bunch of accusations (that very well may be true, I have no
idea) in a public forum for anyone to see. If you were concerned that people
in TMP were being dupped by a single user, you could have brought those
concerns to the people there. But you didn't, you put them somewhere you
knew would cause even more drama between people. Which is fine, just be
honest what your motivations are.
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[] doocurly
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I think it would behoove the remaining Magnets to understand, in no

uncertain terms that I owe TMP NOTHING. They don't own me, I don't
answer to them and lest we all forget, it's a free county.
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14 points 1 day ago
I think that's an unfortunate outlook. If anyone over there did

you or any of your friends any harm, then I sincerely think that
sucks, but there are a lot of good people there too who hurt no
one. I'm sorry you felt things had to come to this. I genuinely
wish you the best of luck and appreciate any positive exchanges
we may have had in the past.
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4 points 1 day ago
I'm still trying to work out how to edit that bloody list!!
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9 points 1 day ago
I wish I would have received that day pass to the tmp. Is this what it's like?
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[] InTheory_
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13 points 16 hours ago* (las t edited 1 3 hours ago)
Looking over this thread, I see that this question never actually got answered. So
I'll have a go at it.
Believe it or not, it's quite boring there. This has been discussed at length in
/r/serialdiscussion.
And one of the reasons for it being boring is that the overwhelming majority of
activity falls under the category of "Good job Undisclosed team, you really showed
them" or incessant whining about the Dark Sub. For a sub that claims not to care
what happens there, they sure spend a lot of time obsessing about it.
All the juicy gossip that you're hearing about is stuff that's going on behind the
scenes.
People get banned, and they make an announcement about it in TMP that is in no
way reflective of the real reasons for the banning (and has little bearing on reality
at all). But there's so much secrecy and misinformation, no one knows what the
real story is or what to believe. Without any insider knowledge, the only option is
to take the mod's word at face value.
People are talking about the case in a sub they don't control, and the TMP mods
feel that they have some kind of proprietary ownership of the other sub (yes,
they tried getting the Reddit admins to forcibly take ownership of a sub they
didn't control -- additionally, the mods made demands of the mods over at
/r/serialdiscussion). Apparently they want to control any and all conversation
about the case, whether or not the conversation is on their sub. But unless
you've got a source to give you access to the mod mail, this all goes on invisibly
(heads up TMP, the first thing the admins do is contact the mods of the sub
you're trying to take control of, you can't do it anonymously). Most people don't
even know they attempted such a coup.
How many more people have to come forward with stories? Every single person
has a different story to tell depending on how it affected them and what they
happen to know about. Are they trying to say those people are ALL lying?
So, in the end, everyone there knows there's a ton of issues below the surface,
and the mods have forced them to collectively ignore them. As such, meaningful
conversation is severely stifled. End result: a very boring sub with a boatload of
drama behind the scenes.
EDIT: spelling
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[] dirtybitsxxx
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Wow.
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So sounds like what I really want is a backstage pass ;)

To be serious for a moment- at this point, with all the documents available,
with it sounds like more on their way, why is the TMP still relevant or
necessary?
yes, they tried getting the Reddit admins to forcibly take ownership of a
sub they didn't control
Which sub is this? The main one?
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[] InTheory_
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When NU was revived and repurposed.

There's a provision on Reddit that allows people to try to take control
of an abandoned sub. They tried to use that provision to weasel their
way into the sub.
If it was a harmless gesture to see if the sub was truly abandoned,
why not just message the mods and politely ask "Hey, are you guys
active over there?"
Instead, they cry to the admins that "the owner shut down the sub
without warning."
If it was a case of one mod acting stupidly, how come no apology was
made? How come ABL didn't come forward and say "Just to let you
know, this person did this without our knowledge, we do apologize
and would not like to see ill will develop"?
Needless to say, the Reddit admins decided that the creator of a sub
actually DOES own it. That's not up for negotiation or discussion.
That's just the way Reddit works. There is NO case to be made for the
feeling that NU was "our" sub. The creator flat out owns it, period.
Additionally, appealing to the admins isn't done confidentially. So after
it was done, the admins sent a message to the mods. So there's no
dispute that the events happened or what was really said.
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What or why do you think they want to control what is said

about the case? And why would taking over the NU sub even
help with that?
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[] InTheory_
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Your guess is as good as mine. I guess power gets to

people's heads.
I think a big part of it is the requirement for membership in
TMP is that your first loyalty must be to TMP. When they
got wind of people being critical of the bloggers, they've
shown their disloyalty and they banned people.
Now, that's not wrong. They can make that a requirement
if they want to. At times there is reason for such a
requirement (especially if there are secrets to be kept).
However, it's disturbingly close to validating the claims of
brainwashing.
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[] ScoutFinch2
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I just want to thank you for your honesty and this

seems like as good a place as any. You and I had a
discussion on /r/serialdiscussion the last time this
stuff blew up and I found you very candid and well
meaning. I can't speak for everyone, (all us guilters)
but this is a fascinating look inside NU, TMP and
Bonner and answers a lot of questions for me as to
why some people act the way they do. I'm really glad
some of you (many of you maybe) decided to take a
stand against some of the more unsavory stuff,
particularly the doxxing stuff, that was going on. And
I feel badly that so many of you seem genuinely hurt
by your experience on NU or TMP.
For me, I feel like discussing this case has invaded my
personal life because it takes time away from other
things, more important things, whether that's time
with my family or reading a good book or doing that
laundry that needs to be done. And that's not good.
So if this case is leaking into people's personal lives
where it's causing anger or hurt feelings or obsession
or whatever, maybe we all need to step back and reevaluate. I mean, we're just a couple of hundred
(maybe) redditors and we really don't matter in the
whole sum of things. Some of us maybe take it a little
too seriously, idk...
Anyway, thanks for your honesty.
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[] InTheory_
I think a lot of good stuff came from all this. I

really appreciated hearing from the other side of
the isle. And one of the things that I'm glad
people got to see was that there always were
people who were being reasonable and standing
up for what was right. Those people can finally
get the props they deserve.
I am very curious as to what the reaction is
from the guilty side. I mean, this must all look
like a circus to you. Was this somewhat
expected? Or was it completely new? Is it
surprising/disappointing/troubling?
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[] MightyIsobel
Was this somewhat expected? Or was

it completely new?
Speaking just for me.....
TMP's thought-policing mentality has been
spilling all over the conversations in SP for
months, so in some ways it is not
surprising to have former insiders confirm

that it was really happening behind the
scenes. Specifically, ideas like what people
said months/weeks/days ago shouldn't
matter; and that dissent and criticism is
"toxic".
However, I interpreted the groupthink
stuff as being a lot looser and more social
than the monitor-and-purge cycles y'all
are describing here. And perhaps there are
active TMPers who would still describe it as
basically friendly and opt-in. I'm surprised
by how rigid and formal the enforcement
seems to be.
Mostly, though, I am delighted to see
thoughtful well-informed perspectives in
the Serial conversation that feel "fresh" to
me. Not because y'all are truly newcomers,
but because we haven't had common
ground to meet each other in before.
I have been saying for months that the
"two sides" narrative is being promoted by
just a small faction of the Serial audience,
and I'm really glad to be able to point to
this thread and say -- See?
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[] MrsTiggyWiggy
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Actually, it's made me see the

FreeAdnanFolk in a much better light. I
thought there were about 20 very hostile,
unpleasant posters and I thought many
posters were making socks-but it turns
out it was only 1 person!
(I'm just going to ignore that
/u/ryokineko
and /u/badgreta33
were on the list because they seem
reasonable and distinct from one another).
I was in NU, briefly, and what I liked about
it was that people were nice to each other;
no mysterious downvotes, people liked
each other, it wasn't scary to create a new
post.
Everybody is so team-based on the main

sub. Honestly, other parts of reddit are
not as hostile as serial podcast. I hope
that season 2 makes it fun again.
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[] ScoutFinch2
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there always were people who were

being reasonable and standing up for
what was right.
That is nice to see. It certainly helps to
see that you all don't have a hive mind,
which I think is what a lot of us guilters
believe, even though it defies common
sense really.
But for the most part none of this is
surprising and probably just confirms
what most already knew or believed, like
the doxxing stuff that goes on and the
secret sharing of docs and the loyalty
requirement. Some of the doxxing stuff is
a bit shocking to actually see evidence of,
because for me I think it's worse than
maybe I had imagined and I find it really
reprehensible and a bit scary. I'm glad
some of you do, too. And if I didn't
already have an abysmally low opinion of
Simpson, well, it just got lower.
What I've really seen from the infighting
stuff among you is that some of you seem
really hurt by it all, which I commented on
in my previous comment. The depth of
that is something I couldn't have
imagined.
The sock stuff, heh, we've known that for
a long time. I don't know who's who but
we all know it's happening so no big
surprise there. I can tell you that the
paranoia and mole stuff that goes on at
TMP isn't something us guilters experience
as a group. No paranoia at all on our side
of the fence.
Something else that's different imo is we
(guilters) are more a "of the people, by

the people" group dynamic whereas TMP
and Bonner in particular seem more like a
dictatorship. So that's been interesting to
be a fly on the wall for that.
But all in all, no real surprises, maybe a
little insight into specific users that I didn't
have previously, both good and bad.
And I'm not going to lie, it's been fun.
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[] Creepologist
Scout, I have no fucking clue where

to put this (excuse my french) so it
might as well be here: You've always
struck me as an independent thinker
and there's a humanity in your posts
that I've always found refreshing
amid the waves of hostility and
aggression that I used to encounter
in SP. I think the partitioning of guilt
v innocent is artificial anyway, and
generally driven by those on either
side most invested in controlling the
argument and shutting down
dissent.
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[] _noiresque_
one of the things that I'm glad people

got to see was that there always were
people who were being reasonable
and standing up for what was right.
Those people can finally get the props
they deserve.
Agree.
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[] SWVeering
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For me, I feel like discussing this case has

invaded my personal life because it takes
time away from other things, more important
things, whether that's time with my family or
reading a good book or doing that laundry
that needs to be done. And that's not good.
So if this case is leaking into people's
personal lives where it's causing anger or
hurt feelings or obsession or whatever,
maybe we all need to step back and reevaluate.
Well there's a first time for everything,
ScoutFinch! I wholeheartedly agree. Very very
well stated.
It feels freeing to finally have a voice again after
all this time. I do think once this thread dies
down, I truly will be able to walk away from all of
this as you suggest.
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[] ScoutFinch2
I truly will be able to walk away from all

of this as you suggest.
I hope so if that's what you (and I) need
to do. :)
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[] InTheory_
Believe me, we've tried. And I think

ultimately, that's the goal.
SWV and many of the others who I
have been publicly standing with
have had to put up with me
discussing my love of anime at
length despite none of them caring,
they've had to tolerate my musing
about what a real space fighter
would look like (turns out, the
physics of space are such that one
man space fighters won't be practical
at all), I've posted a ton of pictures
of my furniture restoration (which
they actually did care about ...
women, they gloss over the cool

stuff and opt for furniture
discussion).
Of the legal related stuff, they were
very curious as to my experiences
on the wrong end of the legal
system and encouraged me to blog
my experiences. This is stuff I never
get to talk about in the real world.
But it got to the point where it just
kept getting sidetracked with "Guys,
you gotta see whose sock you've
been named as this week." And the
sub suddenly reverts right back into
Syed-sub-drama.
Trust me, we eagerly look forward to
getting away from all this for our
mental health. We want to branch
out and have more people join us,
and we don't care what side of the
isle they're on. Unfortunately, up
until now, the 200 levels of
subterfuge wouldn't allow for that.
Everyone was scared of their own
shadow. Every time we thought
about inviting someone, we became
acutely conscious of all the stuff we
might have said that could be used
against us. So hopefully things end
here and we can all move along.
And if you want to know why there
will never be space fighters no
matter how far science advances, I
have pages and pages of rambling
geek-speak.
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[] SWVeering
It is. It really really is.

Good luck to you.
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the requirement for membership in TMP is that

your first loyalty must be to TMP. When they got
wind of people being critical of the bloggers,
they've shown their disloyalty
Are the bloggers aware of this membership
requirement??
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[] InTheory_
Do you really think they acknowledge that as a

requirement?
They'll deny it exists. But if it becomes known
that anyone is speaking critically of the bloggers
in a sub, and you don't get all gestapo on them
and report them to TMP, you'll get banned. "We
trust the person who informed us over you" (or
some such wording, that message wasn't sent
to me personally, that person will have to speak
up if she even sees it amid this beast of a
thread).
Yes, this has happened.
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So the principals office was not just a

joke? That is a real thing that people take
seriously?
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[] MightyIsobel
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But if it becomes known that anyone is

speaking critically of the bloggers in a
sub, and you don't get all gestapo on
them and report them to TMP, you'll
get banned.
This certainly explains some of the
response non-TMP critics of the bloggers
get in SP. Particularly the "Even if they're

not perfect, they're trying hard" flavor of
defense we have seen.
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5 points 15 hours ago* (las t edited 1 5 hours ago)
why is the TMP still relevant or necessary?

I participate there for a couple of reasons.
1. People are nice to me. To be fair, I don't catch that much shit on
the DS either. It's usually limited to sneering, but even that can
get exhausting.
2. While I am not much of a speculator and not at all a sleuth, I
think it is more ethical to keep that stuff at least somewhat
private. For example, while the MVA theory is silly, it was also not
public in all its details until now. So, until this moment, nobody
had publicly accused X of running over Hae (or whatever). So
whoever posted it here is the person who made the public
accusation, not the out-of-the-box thinkers who came up with it.
It's the difference between whispering gossip at the water cooler
and putting it on blast. Both can be bad, but one is more
damaging than the other.
Which sub is this? The main one?
Nah, I don't think so. I think NU. Because it was unilaterally shut
down, there was some effort I think (I was not involved) to see if it
could instead be transferred to a different mod.
ETA: I think the thought was more "Since FMW doesn't want it
anymore, can we have it?" than "Let's stage a coup against an active
sub!" I for one had no idea until just now that it still existed at all. I
thought she just shuttered the place.
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[] LipidSoluble
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No, what happened is that they copied all the posts and pasted
them on Google. Publicly. Where the entire world could search
them down.
After looking at the posts they copied and finding a shit-ton of
personal information about themselves that people posted under
the assumption that it would remain private, I locked down the
google account and changed the password, so it could not be
accessed.
At which point, the TMP mods tried to appeal to have Reddit
forcibly take NU from FMW's hands.
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[] InTheory_
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So you're the culprit! Good job for standing by your

principles. You took a lot of flack for it, but you were right
in your course of action.
The good news is that throughout this discussion, the
guilty side has had a chance to see that there are
reasonable people on the innocent side. We tried our
hardest to keep things at an appropriate level.
Throughout all of this, there were people who spoke out.
They suffered the consequences of it -- not simply
banning, but being demonized afterwards in a deliberate
smear campaign. Those people are finally getting their
props for doing the right thing.
A lot of people said nothing. Those in the "Go along to get
along" camp, you were on the wrong side in all this.
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[] LipidSoluble
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I caught flak for it?

I missed it via not paying attention to what was going
on over there. I consider hate-mail from that region
of the group as a compliment, though.
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[] rockyali
Not protecting the google file was a fuck up. I never

bothered to look at it; I didn't produce any content I (or
anyone else) cared about.
But, from what I can remember, wasn't the genesis of it
users wanting their own content? And the only way to get
that fast was to copy everything?
And then the appeal was based on not having access to
their own content, which was then owned by FMW and
now, I am learning, you? Did you allow access for people to
get their own stuff? Or give it to them? Or delete
everything?
Like I said, I wasn't involved. Didn't know the ultimate
disposition of the NU files. Thanks for making the private

stuff private.
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[] LipidSoluble
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No, I had nothing to do with anyone getting anything

from NU. I was one of the mods over at TMP. From
what i gather, one user asked for access to NU to
copy and paste her own posts. Upon gaining access
to the sub, she copied EVERYONE'S posts and
posted them on a public forum.
For a while, the entire world had access to everyone's
posts. After a couple of weeks, I actually went
through what was there, and that's when I set it to
private.
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[] rockyali
I thought a bunch of other users asked her to

get their stuff too.
The privacy thing was a fuck up, as I said.
So what happened to it? Is it still sitting out
there? Do only you have access? Did you delete
it? Do you stroke a white cat and cackle gleefully
over timelines and recipes? (j/k)
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[] LipidSoluble
While several users may have, that's not

what went down. I know I didn't give
permission, and I found my posts on
there, too.
I changed the password on it, and then
haven't touched it since. As I was telling
someone else about two seconds ago in
PM, 4 months later, it's time to delete it. I
do have two white cats, though. Though
stroking and cackling is likely to get me
killed by cat.
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ago
3 points 12 hours
ouch that would hurt.
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Number 2 is a fair point, except the example you provided was

brought to the main sub several weeks, maybe months, ago. So
while in theory it's fair, but it's usually not what happens.
But I understand the idea of a closed sub feeling like a "safer"
place to discuss thing. Although according to this post, that may
not be true either.
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Although according to this post, that may not be true

either.
It's totally not true. TMP leaks like a sieve. But better to
make the attempt than not, IMO.
About that... if I had to line up sub-war drama in order of
creepiness:
1. Being on reddit! We're all a little freaky.
2. Sock puppetry. I don't endorse it, but I can look past
it. Unless...
3. Spying on people from hiding and/or using deception.
Super creepy!
4. Doxxing, etc. Although this case is weird for reddit in
that it involves a mix of real people and us
phantasms, so there is some complexity involved.
Like, since a phantasm contacted SS's work, is she
then justified in trying to find out the identity of the
phantasm? Other phantasms? If Rabia gets tons of
crap as her real self, is she justified in wanting to
shoot back at a real person? If someone is a legit
murder suspect, is it okay to research them? Under
your own name? As a phantasm? I have my opinions
about each of these (e.g. I'm on record that Rabia
shouldn't have dinged SSR), but I understand both
sides of all of them.
5. Creeping in real life. Following Jay, for example, was
horrifying.
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I agree with this list.i don't agree with most of your

number 4 though.
If you chose to be in the public, or be the public face
of a cause, you don't get to take personal retribution
on someone who made you mad or said mean things
about you. If ssr was directly harassing her or
stalking her or something of that nature- even then
she shouldn't personally handle it. Same with ss. But
she seems controlled enough to do it behind closed
doors or get other people to publicly fight her battles.
EP is the only one handling his public persona
appropriately. at least he only gives people a reason
to disagree with him based on his interpretations of
the law.
Now that's an inner circle show I'd like to see- cause I
imagine there has or will be some drama amongst
them.
Do not even get me started on bob. That guy.
Ugggg.
(Btw- I'm now thinking of you as list guy. You use
lists a lot)
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[] rockyali
i don't agree with most of your number 4

though
Well, it's number 4. Meaning that even though I
see shades of gray, I think it is categorically
pretty bad. If I was writing all that stuff off, it'd
be number 2.
I'm now thinking of you as list guy. You use
lists a lot
Yes, all the time. Easy way to organize and
break up long or complex posts.
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I bet you make your bed every day too :)

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[] rockyali
Ha! No. I can organize writing much

more easily than life. :)
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[] LipidSoluble
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You honestly don't want to see what goes on back there, unless
you're looking to sit down with a bowl of popcorn. Even then, you're
bound to walk away with a headache.
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There is a long weekend coming up......

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[] LipidSoluble
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Stock up on ibuprofen! (and popcorn, no butter)

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Stock up on ibuprofen!
I always thought that was spelled w-I-n-e
No butter? Who's that bucket for? Not me haha.
But unless more gets posted here, I don't think the
mods of TMP or the Bonner party are interested in
letting me watch their subs for entertainment.
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[] LipidSoluble
Yeah, you're probably right. I've been waiting

for my invitation for months now, and still no
access for me.
Also, I'm watching my butt weight. Butter goes
straight there.
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Not trying to be snarky or call you out,

but if you're still waiting for an invitation-
what was this based on? :

You honestly don't want to see what
goes on back there
Did you get a day pass ;) I'll make some
unbuttered popcorn and buttered popcorn
just in case.
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[] LipidSoluble
That was based on when I was a

mod at TMP before I quit. And
apparently now have been banned. I
can't speak as to the reasoning (or
time frame) behind the latter
though, since I've been gone for
several months.
I was never a venerated member of
the Bonner Party, which I gather is
where all the juicy stuff is.
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[] MightyIsobel
So sounds like what I really want is a backstage pass

or just wait patiently until people get tired of the silliness and open up
a real conversation
(or real conversations, so to speak)
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[] LipidSoluble
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When I leave and come back 4-5 months later to the same shit,
different day, I highly doubt this will ever occur.
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Like this? Haha.

Sounds like the Bonner sub, if it ever implodes, will be where the
real information starts coming out. I'm a patient person. At least
until season 2 starts- the. I probably won't care anymore. ;)

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[] MightyIsobel
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Like this? Haha.

No I really mean it. We're learning a lot here about why
Undisclosed shares information the way they do, and how
reddit is being used strategically (if not particularly
effectively).
I think this all relates back in interesting ways to how Serial
Podcast was constructed, and how Rabia tried to influence
how the discussion of the podcast happened in SP.
All this narrative-framing stuff is way more interesting to
me than gossiping about people tangentially involved in the
murder mystery.
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No I actually agree. I haven't had a chance to read the

rest of this thread yet, just what people are
commenting to me.
It is fascinating the dynamics of what has happened
from the main sub (which I didn't see when rabia, ss,
and ep were still on it) to today. I'm not necessarily
convinced it's all rabia. She may have started it, and
she may have opinions and preferences and do
absurd things because of reddit, but I honestly don't
think she's the one pulling strings at this point. I
think she has other things she focuses on and has
left that to someone else.
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[] MightyIsobel
I'm not necessarily convinced it's all rabia.

She may have started it, and she may have
opinions and preferences and do absurd
things because of reddit, but I honestly
don't think she's the one pulling strings at
this point.
I think that's right, in terms of the main sub. I
do think she sets the tone for a lot of what
Adnan's supporters see as appropriate internet
behavior. Then they're shocked when anons use
reddit's community-moderation tools to give
them feedback.
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[] OhDatsClever
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9 points 1 day ago
I once tried to gain membership to the NarcUnit. I never did get in, but I still get
charged the $15 every month in fees...
I won't complain too much though, they say it goes to their "Top Spots" Program
to benefit young gifted confidential informants in the inner city. A fine cause.
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8 points 1 day ago
The user name has been earned. Top spots

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[] doocurly
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Hey, don't blame them on me or vice-versa. I'm just giving out information over
here. Take it or leave it.
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9 points 1 day ago
I'm not blaming anyone. This is interesting to watch. Glad it's being shared
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[] marybsmom
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1 point 1 day ago
This is not what it's like.

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10 points 1 day ago
Which secret sub is like this? Bonner party? Can I get a day pass there?
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[] Gdyoung1
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7 points 1 day ago
Maybe read a book about the Nixon administration? ;)

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3 points 1 day ago
So according to that list above whitenoise is haldeman and ss

Nixon?
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[] Gdyoung1
9 points 1 day ago
And Adnan Syed is their Vietnam.. :)

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5 points 1 day ago
Ha!
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[] whitenoise2323
1 point 1 day ago
So, Harry Haldeman and Richard Nixon would have been on

the side questioning the decision of the state in a
potentially capital matter?
Seems unlikely.
I would fancy us as more like Woodward and Bernstein,
except Susan is both Woodward and Bernstein and I'm
just playing some unnamed bit part in this stupid drama.
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After reading more comments and reviewing what's

been posted, it's not even said tounge in cheek
anymore.
You can call it stupid drama here and now but there is
pretty significant (albeit out of context) evidence that
the Sub you moderate is doing or was doing some
pretty awful things.
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So, Harry Haldeman and Richard Nixon would have

been on the side questioning the decision of the
state
That's not quite how I meant it...... Even as tongue in
cheek.
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[] Thisaccountuser
I second this. It is not what it's like. Most of the "innocent" crowd that was
booted from NU - none of them posted derogatory comments about the NU

like those people who have been booted from TMP have. Those who have
been booted have showed some kinda scary colors and while I HAD
reservations about the reasons for the boots... I see now that it was a good
choice. No, you guys don't owe TMP anything - say what you want, post
screenshots from private convos/subs. But you are absolutely not handling
yourselves any better than what you're claiming is deplorable. Pot, meet
kettle.
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[] doocurly
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Moddy McMode rton [S] 4 points 11 hours ago
You've not been following along closely enough if you don't realize that
I've said three times that the pot needed to meet the kettle. Jane
wants to finger everyone as a sock? Well hey, time to talk then. I
haven't seen one sycophant yet who's had much to say about this:
http://imgur.com/gy8Qlue
That's totally on the up and up, right? We're not worthy of such great
redditors.
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[] dirtybitsxxx
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12 points 1 day ago
I would almost switch sides just to get a better view of this..... almost.
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[] StraightTalkExpress
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13 points 1 day ago
So here's the thing... I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who can get
some xanax.
Just throwing that out there, some of you guys already have my email address if
anyone is interested.
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[] InTheory_
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11 points 1 day ago
Wow, lot of stuff here I didn't know (and I thought I knew a lot). I am not FMW. She's
a lot more interesting than I am. I say that out of respect for my friend doo
As far as further elaboration and proof, I offer none. I owe TMP absolutely nothing, not
even an explanation. They deserve whatever fate befalls them. Frosted is my friend, and
it is no insult to me to be confused with her. I am, however, embarrassed to be in any
way associated with whatever TMP has become.
Study of this case was supposed to make us better people. It hasnt. TMP is as bad as
the trolls they claim to stand against. So I want no part of it.
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[] doocurly
<3 Hello there, friend. Thanks for weighing in. I know who you are, but due to the
excellent sleuthing in TMP, by Jane no less, you are being accused of high crimes
including: being dormant on reddit, not thinking for yourself, and worst of all,
being Frosted Mini-Wheats.
I sentence you to good times in other subs, not giving a flying f*ck what TMP
thinks. ;)
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[] LipidSoluble
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Was that my crime too? :O

I'm so dormant, people call me somnolent.
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[] glibly17
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6 points 1 day ago
This is...a bit dramatic, no?

"Whatever fate befalls us?" I mean come on. And I think your righteous
condemnation of all TMP as "as bad as the trolls they claim to stand against" is an
entirely unfair and again, extremely melodramatic thing to say.
Are there shitty people in TMP? Almost without a doubt. I don't care for socks but
I also don't care that much about them. If people are nutty enough to make
socks and assume all these different personalities, well, it must be difficult to be
that kind of person. But who gives a shit? Do you or anyone else here truly think
that the average redditor, on this sub or TMP or anywhere else, is going to have
that much of an affect on the case or that anything we write in comments will lead
to something "befalling" us?
People take reddit way too fucking seriously.
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12 points 1 day ago
This is...a bit dramatic, no?

People take reddit way too fucking seriously.
Big words. Takes a set of balls to say that to me here. I bet your balls are
so big you say that over there too when they get overly dramatic. Tell us
again how you do that?
Please, we all want to know what happens in TMP when you say "We are not
the legal guardians of Adnan Syed"
Oh wait, you didn't say that in TMP ... I did. I got labelled as a troll because
of it, a badge of honor I proudly wear because I spoke up. Those were my
exact words. And I had others. I had a whole post. I spoke up on an
unpopular opinion. I was willing to say we're being too dramatic in a place
and time when there were consequences. Half the sub was thinking it. But
they punked out and didn't have the guts to say it. So they continue to
think it, just in secret.
When you say those words to the mods and the bloggers in TMP and mean
it, then you'll have an argument to make. Otherwise, spare me. You're a
coward by trying to use that argument here and not in TMP.
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14 points 1 day ago* (las t edited 1 day
ago)
And that's really the purpose of all this, isn't it? To point out the
hypocrisy of some of those in charge over in TMP. There are lots of
great users in there, but there is also A LOT of false accusing, unfair
treatment to those who disagree, bashing the "other side" for some of
the same behavior they participate in, etc.
As a group, the goal was to have a space to discuss theories, etc.
without getting yelled at by those who disagreed. The "sunshine" sub.
But what it turned into because of poor leadership was a place where
disagreement was not tolerated, people were secretly kicked out and
then smeared for complaining about it elsewhere, and guilters were
hated on for doing things the sunshiners were also doing.
I don't like serialpodcast; it's an impossible cesspool of trollism and
disrespect. But there was hypocrisy in TMP, and anyone who tried to
speak up about it was spirited away with a proverbial black bag over
his/her head. The hunt for moles and socks was constant, while a user
who admitted to having lots of socks was welcomed back with open
arms.
So yeah, it might seem like some people being over-dramatic or having
personal axes to grind, but ultimately, we used to be a group of
people interested in finding out the truth of what happened to a
teenage girl and her ex-boyfriend who was accused of the crime.
Things have skewed so far away from that, and there are some people
who are really unhappy about that and think it's wrong.
So that's the deal.
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[] InTheory_
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8 points 1 day ago
Exactly. I believe a lot of people are looking for just that. Except
they have no alternative to TMP. So they put up with the
hypocrisy because so far it hasn't affected them personally.
I have to ask though, do you think it is possible for such a place
to be created? Can the issues and various angles be discussed
while the bloggers horde the documents? The sock problem runs
so deep it may be impossible to get rid of them all. Some
prominent people have to be called out for their crazy antics, and
will there be a sub left if anyone attempted to do so?
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14 points 1 day ago
I think the bloggers will do whatever they think they should

do, and there's nothing anyone can do about it. I think if
certain people hadn't behaved in such crazy, rabid ways
before SS, RC, and EP left SP, they would still be there and
sharing info. I think the only way discussion can happen is
with aggressive modding, where any language that is
insulting or disrespectful is removed pronto, no discussion.
That should've been the approach in serialpodcast as soon
as trolls started to appear, and it wasn't. The behavior was
allowed, and that was the end of sense and reason.
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7 points 1 day ago
I am of the belief that there is no recovery possible.

The problems predate the creation of the NU/TMP all
the way back on serialpodcast, on that I agree. The
problems have only grown since. There is no way to
reign it back in. The damage is done. My opinion: the
only way to fix the problem is to burn the whole thing
down, this experiment with TMP has proved that any
attempt to quietly fix it from within is doomed to
failure.
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[] ScoutFinch2
13 points 1 day ago
while the bloggers horde the documents?

Not for much longer. Equal opportunity docs coming soon
to a sub near you. :)
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[] YaYa2015
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5 points 1 day ago
there was hypocrisy in TMP

If you don't mind me asking, were you a member of TMP at some
point? Were you banned or you just quit?
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7 points 1 day ago
I was in NU and TMP. I was recently removed from TMP

supposedly because I was still a member of NU with a very
small number of other users. As far as I can tell, it's all part
of some potentially fictional battle between users. Some of

the leaders of TMP believe /u/frosted_mini-wheats
is
some kind of boogeyman that they can blame all of their
troubles on. I am in her sub, so I guess that means I "can't
be trusted" or whatever.
What actually happened is that the creator of the sub
didn't like it when I respectfully disagreed with her on
numerous occasions, so she looked for any justification to
remove me.
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[] YaYa2015
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9 points 1 day ago
It's unfortunate you were banned, I didn't know (we

never do).
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[] dcrizoss
I remember you sticking up for me when I was

banned for not participating. Thanks.
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1 day ago
Boote d from TMP :(
9 points
Thanks. :)
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[] Mrs_Direction
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10 points 1 day ago
Hey! Thanks for doing this! I know you are getting a bunch of flack. So thank you.
Beyond the socks, some of the other things you are exposing are kind of scary from
the other side of the aisle.
It's safe to assume they have our IP's at a minimum.
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10 points 1 day ago
I'd like to say kudos to the current/former TMP people for speaking their minds. I have
no doubt it was hard to do in what meant to be a safe, secret, space and it sounds like
you got castigated for speaking up for what you saw as shitty behavior.
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[] Creepologist
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5 points 1 day ago
Other commitments took me away from Reddit for a good piece of the chronology in
your post, Doo. I did manage to log on once or twice before getting kicked from said
private subs (I assumed for inactivity, but who knows). Unfortunately, that was just
enough time for me to get an eyeful of people in both subs getting out their torches
and pitchforks to burn /u/Frosted_Mini-Wheats
at the stake.
Whatever /u/theodoreadorno
is up to I can't fathom, but the streak of naked
ugliness I saw in /u/alwaysbelagertha
and /u/CompulsiveBookNerd
in these posts
is unfortunately all too human and familiar. It's not surprising that Frosted has become
their all-purpose, moustache-twirling bad guy given what easy marks they are for
theodoreadorno.
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[] segovius
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8 points 1 day ago
Pure Animal Farm

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[] budgiebudgie
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15 points 1 day ago
Jesus wept. Some people take themselves way too seriously. We're just a bunch of
largely anonymous people on reddit. Who really gives a shit, this much? Honestly.
And the worst thing in my book. It's not even interesting.
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[] SWVeering
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Who really gives a shit, this much? Honestly.

I gave a shit for awhile Budgie. Because I really wanted to piece together what
happened that day and because it was fun feeling part of a like-minded group
(NO-ONE in my real-life was interested to the fanatical level I was so enter Reddit).
Being ostricised because of /u/alwaysbelagertha
s personal drama isn't fair. But
then again, who ever said that the world was fair?
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[] LipidSoluble
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Anonymous is a great way to describe us, until someone decided to bust out with
the static IP searches.
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[] mixingmemory
Jesus wept
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...for there were no more worlds to conquer!!!

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[] Mustanggertrude
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14 points 1 day ago
I just don't think Adnan did it. That's all I got.

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15 points 1 day ago
Yeah; why can't we all just discuss facts and theories without attacking each
other?? I don't care about all this sub drama. I would even happily exist on
serialpodcast with those who disagree with me if people were civil and normal.
Sucks when a few people ruin it for everyone.
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6 points 1 day ago
I don't even know what this is. Is there a point to the tomfoolery, or is this
standard practice for regular redditors? It seems like a lot of effort, time,
manipulation, and for what? I'm having difficulty seeing the end game. Like
long con for what? I just don't understand.
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12 points 1 day ago
Exactly. Who has time for all this long-con business? And for what
purpose?
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9 points 1 day ago
right? What a lot of anonymous effort on an anonymous

message board for irrelevant points so you can look like the
most right? Is that what socks are for? so thrown, tuppence. I'm
so thrown.
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[] InTheory_
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11 points 1 day ago
Let me sum up then. TMP has claimed to be the persecuted target of

all the spy vs spy nonsense going on. Yet every time someone comes
forward with what they know, every time someone scratches below the
surface, we learn that far from being the victims in all this, TMP is at or
near the source of it all. As was said elsewhere, the guilty crowd has
none of the same foolishness going on. On some level they don't even
acknowledge to themselves, the TMP hardliners relish in it. And not for
a con, but just because the game is fun to them.
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[] bluekanga
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the TMP hardliners relish in it. And not for a con, but just
because the game is fun to them
That's the conclusion I reached as well
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[] MightyIsobel
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9 points 1 day ago
On some level they don't even acknowledge to themselves,

the TMP hardliners relish in it
This whole comment is perfect.
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2 points 1 day ago
weird science, man.

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3 points 1 day ago
It always starts at the top

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[] InTheory_
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17 points 1 day ago
As an FYI, they have a lot to say about you

/u/stop_saying_right
. What they had to say about you
with the whole MPIA thing was over the top. They were
accusing you of hacking Rabia's computer (not only is that
a ridiculous assertion, but it is a very serious accusation).
They were trying to track you down to discredit you in the
worst way. They even went so far as to figure out what
kind of printer was used to print those documents to see if
they were legit or not.
I don't bring this up just to throw yet more dirt on the
situation (though, lets just be honest, I am immensely
enjoying it).
The reason I bring it up was because when the
conversation went way past good sense, a lot of people
started speaking in your defense. But instead of being a
victory for TMP (as in "See, we all say things we later realize
is stupid, but eventually reasonableness kicks in and
permeates the discussion"), it turned out to be the
quintessential example of how the sub operates.
Of the people who spoke in your defense, the mods have
made them ALL quietly disappear in the subsequent weeks
and months (I think doo was the last holdout). Granted,
that probably wasn't the only reason they were banned,
but it was what first got them on the mod's radar.

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11 points 1 day ago
Well I am immensely in your and the others debt

then. It appears that a sense of decency unites us
more than Serial divides. That's comforting.
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[] bluekanga
8 points 1 day ago
It's the ones that thought that the behaviour as

described was reasonable that are the
problematic ones
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7 points 1 day ago
Yup. No problem at all with anyone on the

innocent/undecided side, just the fanatics
which by definition are seemingly blinded
to any bad behavior they witness and end
up participating in
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[] TheFraulineS
17 points 1 day ago
They were accusing you of

hacking Rabia's computer (not
only is that a ridiculous assertion,
but it is a very serious
accusation)
Hmm.... does that mean Rabia had
those files on her computer?! ;)
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[] LipidSoluble
Just make sure that the next time you post

docs, you blank out the stuff that can be used
to identify you. They may have ferreted out
where you do your banking, if I recall correctly.
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that's not true. the money order said

"citibank of north america" that's hardly
identifying. It was the hidden metadata, as
you know, that they seized on.
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[] LipidSoluble
The metadata was dug into at some

point, but there was a stamp, or
some small print at the bottom of
the page that got them started (I'd
give better detail, but I don't have
access to the sub anymore. I'm
operating from memory).
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[] YaYa2015
2 points 1 day ago
the mods have made them ALL quietly disappear

Not quite everyone.
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[] InTheory_
7 points 1 day ago
Possible. I was never one for keeping

screenshots. I can't think of any who managed
to survive. But comparing that list won't look
good for TMP. Let's face the reality, that
conversation was not the high point of TMP's
existence.
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[] YaYa2015
3 points 1 day ago
I've been spared so far.

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[] InTheory_
7 points 1 day ago
This is the second time you've talked

to me, I'm getting worried about
you!
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[] glibly17
2 points 1 day ago
That's not a summing up so much as more unfounded

accusations and ridiculous generalizations against the sub &
users. I still have no idea what you & others have claimed to
have found "below the surface" other than that some people may
have socks on TMP and people don't like FMW. Big fucking deal.
And if you don't think the guilty crowd has socks, then, yeah I
don't know what to even say to that.
I mean, what is this "game" you're talking about? The "con"? Do
you seriously believe we huddle together over there thinking
about how to strew discord all over reddit? Because reddit
matters so much? People actually discuss the case and the
evidence available.
Whatever else you're talking about is definitely not apparent or
standard for the casual user. But of course, you won't actually
back up what you say, because demonizing the users of a sub
that kicked you out for bad attitude must do something for you,
I guess.
Sounds like a hell of a lot of sour grapes to me.
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[] LipidSoluble
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No, I think you all chatter about your beliefs, complain

about the Darksub, and lap from the collective bowl of
cream SS sets out while they do some seriously shady shit
in the private mod sub and over at the Bonner Party.
The thing is that when faced with the prospect that some
seriously shady shit is going on that you didn't know
about, your first reaction it a gutkick defense. Stop, take a
breath, and take a closer look at things, which is what
investigators of this series are supposed to love to do.
Stop lashing out with reactionary posts, and take a couple
of days to dig around and see what's been going on, or at
least acknowledge that you don't have access to the
information that gets traded in the mod subreddit, and
that you're defending something you haven't seen with
your own eyes, claiming that it doesn't exist without valid

proof other than the sayso of several other anonymous
people, and failing to question what you're being told.
Either that, or you know very well what's going down and
you're part of the problem.
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[] dcrizoss
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For fuck sake, yes to this a billion times. I have been

trying to find answers to these allegations all day and
I am constantly shot down whenever I ask about the
truth.
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[] LipidSoluble
Everyone is so secretive!
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[] glibly17
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-2 points 8 hours ago
What's the seriously shady shit? Socks?

I'm not a member of the Bonner party; any personal,
identifying information on TMP is heavily redacted.
Everyone is talking about "seriously shady shit" that's
supposedly "going on" but all we have are
anonymous, largely unfounded accusations in this
post. So I see nothing to "dig into."
I'm a member of TMP because I enjoy all the
discussion and theories surrounding this case; and
besides that everyone that I have interacted with has
been really kind, compassionate, intelligent, and levelheaded.
Can't say the same for many of the posters in this
thread.
Also:
take a couple of days to dig around
I have an actual life and responsibilities. Stupid reddit
drama may be fun to watch but I can't say I'm
interested in digging around. Besides, it's on you all
to prove your claims; it's not on me to verify them.
you're defending something you haven't seen with
your own eyes
Sorry, what am I defending, according to you? And

why should I believe any of these accusations from
anonymous redditors who claim to have all this info;
and when what they do release is ambiguous at best?
If the Bonner party or TMP is doing "seriously shady
shit" as you like to claim, report it to the admins.
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[] LipidSoluble
Sorry, what am I defending, according to

you? And why should I believe any of these
accusations from anonymous redditors who
claim to have all this info; and when what
they do release is ambiguous at best?
That's the point. You're pretty much believing
what you're told over at TMP. It's everyone else
that has to provide proof. If you want to ignore
the large number of people here who used to be
party to one or both of these groups repeating
and reporting the same information and
allegations over and over and over again, that's
your choice.
But if that's your choice, go back to TMP and
continue to have your discussions, and don't
wade into the discussions over here. I've
watched the people over at TMP (and by extent
TBP) dig up info on people via documents,
perform witch hunts, harass and ban people,
harass people over on the dark sub, and
perform IP searches to determine who people
are in real life.
If you're the type of person who is okay with all
of that kind of stuff, thanks for letting me know
so I can avoid you like the plague. You can get
as pissy as you like about it, but I'm also going
to tell people what I've experienced so that they
also can avoid you like the plague and possibly
spare themselves having to be exposed to any
of that.
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[] glibly17
What I'm told? What am I told?
report
Again. You all are making these claims and

telling me I'm the one in the wrong for
not taking you at your word and/or doing
my own digging.
I have never come across any of the
bullshit you or any other pile-oners are
claiming. So, yeah, I'll reserve judgement
until any of you actually provide a basis for
what you're claiming.
And the only concrete accusations around
here seem to be that people have socks.
Okay. Big fucking deal. Lots of users on
both sides and all over reddit have socks,
throwaways, whatever.
I also suspect you and I have very
different ideas of what constitutes
"harassment." Please don't assume you
know anything about me because I have a
different view than you on this shit.
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[] LipidSoluble
The wrongness isn't in what you

believe. Again, believe what you want
to believe and continue to adhere to
that belief system without signed
and sealed evidence to the contrary.
I'd love to provide you with proof in
the public posts of the private
information that got dug up, and I
could have screencapped everything
that was said on the TMP mod sub
before I quit, but then I'd just be
guilty of taking their private
information and sharing it with other
people, which is exactly what I don't
want them doing to me.
The socks aren't the issue (or my
issue, I could care less about the
socks). Doo posted a list of people
up there with the same static IP
addresses. Think about that for a
second. Static IP addresses? Do you
know what would need to be done in
order to obtain the static IP

addresses of those "socks"? You
know Reddit absolutely does not
provide that information, so it was
not obtained in any above-board
manner?
That's not gripes about sockpuppetry, that's a violation of
privacy.
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[] MightyIsobel
6 points 1 day ago
Do you seriously believe we huddle together over there

thinking about how to strew discord all over reddit?
quack quack quack quack
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[] bluekanga
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4 points 1 day ago
:)
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6 points 1 day ago
quack quack quack.

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[] bluekanga
4 points 1 day ago
This is us going onto the DS every day quack quack

Like this new game;)
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6 points 1 day ago
love
Sad song tho, until the end when
they all come back - thank god.
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[] doocurly
I think that's what the Bonnerite who gave this to me was trying to
glean. I never found out if it lead to anywhere for the long game.
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[] Barking_Madness
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8 points 1 day ago
Power, control. The usual for people who are weak and unable to relate
to others on the same level.
Oh and gossip.
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[] bluekanga
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8 points 1 day ago
So can't we peer pressure the power and control freaks and pull
them into line so it's a better place /u/tuppence_beresford
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Boote d from TMP :(
reply
11 points 1 day ago
I've been wondering what could possibly save the sp sub

since my removal from tmp, and I really think the only
salvation is aggressive modding, which will never happen.
The divisions are too deep and ingrained for people to
police themselves, and there are trolls who love the
environment. No one has enough time to constantly
babysit, so it will never get better.
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[] bluekanga
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10 points 1 day ago
Well I suppose it's identifying high conflict posters

and targeting them - if the socks are gone, that will
help.
I do think if we could agree some guidelines about
what respectful behaviour looks like then we can apply
peer pressure - works in real life - just out the overly
aggressive ones and trolls and if there's consensus
then they will leave
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[] chunklunk
I agree that peer pressure is the way to go

more than aggressive modding. And, I know my
own urge to conflict gets driven high when I
encounter the obvious socks (which is every
day), and I could do better to be more civil. But
the problem is the socks are there for a reason.
They're part of an intentional, explicit PR
campaign to free Adnan, and they've been there
since early on. For every janecc that gets
banned there's a summer/mutton and her 20
re-animating socks. The drama over who
participates or leads backchannel secret subs is
a sideshow that those driving the ASLT
crazytrain don't really care about. For them,
there's no way to make the dark sub less
"toxic" without brigade downvoting and
smearing of those who express basic opinions
like "Uh, guys, I think the dude is pretty guilty"
or question the wacky theories of the
Undisclosed trio too hard. The reason why TMP
ignored /u/doocurly
's concerns about the
sock puppetry is not to defend a single person
(janecc) and her sock factory, it's to defend a
widespread and intentional strategy that's kept
from overt discussion on TMP but widely
practiced probably by more than we'll ever
know.
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[] LipidSoluble
To be perfectly honest, the conflict (as

nasty as it can get) is a whole heck of a lot
more productive (and healthy) than the
saccharine falsehoods that goes down in a
group of people who must agree about
absolutely everything.
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[] bluekanga
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6 points 1 day ago
They're part of an intentional, explicit

PR campaign to free Adnan, and
they've been there since early on. For
every janecc that gets banned there's
a summer/mutton and her 20 re-
animating socks.
Yep I agree and I hear and share your
passion and frustration with these
derailing and undermining tactics in order
for the PR campaign to try and control the
narrative on SP
Still we have the ducks now Quack quack
quack quack
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[] ghostofchucknoll
when I encounter the obvious socks

(which is every day)
Soo ya havva wee nasty run-in with
socks every day, do you now, lad?
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[] chunklunk
Yessir chuck.
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3 points 1 day ago
There is hope yet dude

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[] doocurly
I don't know anymore. The single most compelling thing to me that points to
Adnan's innocence is the officer in the neighboring county calling in the plates on
Hae's car, in a neighborhood by Don's (mother's) house. If I take that away, the
bloggers have drove me closer to thinking that Adnan could have killed Hae
between 2:15 and 2:40 and buried her later that night when he falls off the radar.
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[] Mustanggertrude
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7 points 1 day ago
I lean on lividity, but I did find the car stuff compelling. See, I'm not going to
start creating new narratives to prove Adnan's guilt bc the states case and
Jay has been proven rubbish. I just can't do that.
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[] doocurly
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I'm undecided still, still lean innocent.

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[] Mustanggertrude
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9 points 1 day ago
I think I sit innocent until something proves him guilty. I don't

think a verdict should be that proof.
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[] doocurly
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Agreed. The verdict doesn't say anything to me about what

happened that day.
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[] gingercoffee
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11 points 1 day ago
This is really fucked up and you don't even deserve an explanation from me.
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[] doocurly
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Hey, tell it to u/inspiteofitall

a hold out of important info.
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[] gingercoffee
. She's the one who pm'd everyone saying you are
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5 points 1 day ago
Maybe she did...I'm not at all surprised at this point. But you are the one
making accusations against me right now.
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[] doocurly
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Not my intention to accuse you of anything. I'm just saying what I

know. You've been fingered as the holder of the screenshot.
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[] gingercoffee
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18 points 1 day ago
It is obviously your intention to bring me into this drama or you

wouldn't have mentioned me. You accused me of being Inspite!
That's a pretty hefty accusation after all the shit she was up.
Talk about shooting innocent people. What the hell have I done
to wrong Frosted or anyone else? This is just really weird and
messed up.
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[] doocurly
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I'm sorry, what shit was she up to?

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[] gingercoffee
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12 points 1 day ago
I'm not going to play your game, Doo. I'm not into
this crap. You are a bully, plain and simple.
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[] LipidSoluble
The correct term is whistleblower.

Whistleblowers dump all their information
regardless of who it fingers. Say what you will
about them, a whistleblower at least is fair in
providing all of the information.
Can we all for once be mad at the ACTUAL
bullies here? That's the people who are actually
doing bad things, NOT the people calling
attention to the bad things being done.
It's simple enough to say you don't have a
screencap, but it's the people harassing you to
get it from you who are at fault for the
harassment.
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[] gingercoffee
Are you serious? This post is nothing but

reddit gossip. I don't have a screencap
and I've never been harassed about one.
That's why I'm offended that Doo is
bringing me into this. If she's heard
rumors about me, the decent thing to do
would be to simply ask me about it. Why
call me out like this and accuse me of
being a sock? I absolutely feel like I'm
being bullied.
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[] LipidSoluble
If she's calling you out on it, you're

one of many, many people who have
been called out in this post.

This post is a very large collection of
various things that have happened
or been said behind closed doors,
and is likely a blend of both fact and
gossip. The point is not to call
people out, it's to share what's
going on behind closed doors. Even
with only half of this stuff being true,
it paints a pretty grim picture.
I would understand your stance if
this was one entire post about you
and the various ways in which you
suck. It's not. Even the parts that
mention you by name aren't about
you, they're about the fact that a
number of people HAVE been
harassed over the possible presence
of that screencap, and the people
that have been harassed aren't even
close to the people who may have it
(which was believed to be you, but is
apparently not you).
It's not about whether or not you
have a screencap, it's about the
lengths people have gone to obtain
it from people who don't have it.
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[] doocurly
Sorry, bully is the wrong word here. I'm not a

bully for sharing what I choose to share in my
own post, in my own sub.
If you don't like bullying, then I imagine you
haaaattttteee TheMagnetProgram.
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[] doocurly
Doxing photo album is back up in the post, and it's better than before. Personal
infomation has been redacted.
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[] chunklunk
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Question about this: is the Bonner party post "Canary in a Facebook Data Mine"
new to your imgur links? I missed it yesterday when I read, but maybe didn't
scroll down. Because that's a nasty piece of work. Not only against reddit rules,
but totally unethical and disgusting. Who's idea was that?!?
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[] A stariaEriol
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I don't see a link for that, can you share?

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[] chunklunk
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It's talking about a comprehensive data mining project of people's

Facebook's posts (Woodlawn students across 5 years!!!), collecting all
info possible from their FB timelines, adding people with open profiles
so they can monitor data from locked down profiles, see who/what
they comment on, what photos they add (!!!), who likes their posts.
It's the doxxiest thing I've ever seen, and this is an actual post from
the sub!!! Then, it says they had to put the "data mine project on
hold" because it worked too well and they ended up with "17GB of raw
text and metadata." Forget reddiquette, IS THIS EVEN LEGAL?
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I'm sorry.... What?

Eta: this is happening in the bonner party?
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[] chunklunk
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Look at what doocurly labels Exhibit A in the post above,

scroll down to the last screenshot.
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And this is the sub ss uses for her research? Is bob a

part of this sub?
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sorry for the callout, but /u/doocurly

or
/u/frosted_mini-wheats
, can you confirm if
bob is or not?
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[] doocurly
hours ago
Moddy McMode rton [S] 1 point 11
You'll have to tell me who Bob is.

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hours ago
3 points 11
serialdynasty
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hours ago
6 points 11
I think they mean Bob the fireman

from serial dynasty. He wasn't in
Bonner when I was but that was
months ago. He's in TMP, right?
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[] chunklunk
Not that I know of. This is the super-secret

Bonner party in all its ugly glory. [ETA: yes, this
is the one that SS uses or used, apparently.]
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[] ImBlowingBubbles
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IS THIS EVEN LEGAL?

Its legal but its not really ethical.
Its why people should make themselves aware of Facebook
privacy policies and really understand how to interact in social
media because the companies themselves (like Facebook) don't
give a fuck because they want your browsing/click habits on file
anonymously for market data. Unfortunately that gives a lot of

weirdos openings because most people aren't aware how much
info their social media accounts can reveal.
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[] A stariaEriol
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Yeah I just found it. I don't see why it would be illegal and
personally don't think it should be, but it's creepy as a mofo.
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[] chunklunk
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I was being a little hyperbolic, but not by much. To

research one or a couple of people's public info is one
thing, and I agree not illegal, but to monitor and collect
data for an entire group of people who graduated over 5-6
years? And it's explicitly talking about obtaining information
from people who's profiles have been "locked down,"
meaning they want to see what people think is private info.
Anyway, yes, maybe more on the incredibly gross side of
the spectrum than illegal, but...
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[] A stariaEriol
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I come from a planet where we do not understand

hyperbole or metaphors.
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[] Mrs_Direction
http://m.imgur.com/a/tPYDc
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[] A stariaEriol
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Oops nevermind I see it!

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I always wondered if spokeo ever actually got subscribers.

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[] doocurly
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Yes, it's new. I added it to the redacted images today. The poster's user
name is in the post, and it was a post made in r/TheBonnerParty.
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[] InTheory_
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We discuss unredacted documents, real life identities of the parties involved,

and talk smack about trolls for lols
How many times have they publicly denied exactly that? They insisted that the
Donner sub was for other purposes completely.
And that's before even addressing my concerns with their mission statement.
While I don't mind professionals investigating the case at that level, is it really
ethical to crowd source this kind of stuff to average Redditors with zero
experience in handling investigations appropriately?
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[] doocurly
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Was is ethical to exclude /u/rabiasquared

from the sub discussing the
very case documents that she gave to Susan? What was the purpose of
excluding Rabia from the sub? Is it because of the very reason you stated?
Something tells me that Rabia would have indeed been prohibitive in their
effort to share case files with complete strangers, given how she has publicly
railed about "leaks".
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[] dirtybitsxxx
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Wait. Susan set up a sub and took the documents Rabia gave her and
shared it with strangers, doxxed people and /u/rabiasquared
wasn't
allowed in the sub? Did /u/rabiasquared
she know about it?
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[] doocurly
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Yes, that's what happened, and when Rabia found out about
Bonner in TMP, and said something along the lines of, "all I know
is that I was never invited", SS said something along the lines of
oh, it was just a silly extension of a yahoo group. No bigs. From
the album in the post, you can see it was a very fucking big deal.
The whole effort to dox the shit out of former WHS students
from their FB postings and keep a wiki of their stuff? Does it
really get more shady than that?
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[] dirtybitsxxx
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Well, seeing as Rabia has engaged in Doxxing herself,

perhaps she doesnt care what tactics people use. But it
seems she should be pretty pissed about being excluded
from the sharing of her own files.

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[] doocurly
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I think if she knew the half of it, she'd be more

outraged. Far as I know, this post is the only time
someone has leaked anything from Bonner. Maybe
she really thought that it was just some hokey sub
where Susan talked about her cats with some other
lawyers.
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[] dirtybitsxxx
Well, i guess we will find out how she feels

pretty soon.
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[] doocurly
hours ago
Or not. She's not going to talk about it or

mess up the team making Undisclosed.
That I can guarantee.
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[] dirtybitsxxx
I get the distinct impression she is

not a woman who likes to be
betrayed.
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Actually Janecc included screen shots from

Bonner in an email she sent to quite a few
people both on and off of reddit back in March.
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[] doocurly
hours ago
Oh lordy. Did Rabia ever get wind of that?

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4 points 11
No clue. As I've said Rabia was never

friendly with me. Not like she shared
secrets or anything :)
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[] TimeHumpChronicles
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That's a great point. So, why didn't /u/Frosted_MiniWheats

invite Rabia or inform her about it?
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Why did it have to be FMW? Why didn't anyone in

Bonner tell her about it? I know that for the most
part, people were very afraid of losing access to case
documents that SS had shown them but no one else,
like Hae's other diary entries. I guess salaciousness
was part of the appeal, but who knows why no one
told her. Same reason no one told my secrets for
months, or why I didn't tell of my source's IP
information for months. Fear of reprisal? Fear of
repercussion? Fear of being excluded? Fear of losing
access to the discussion? Seems curious you are
quick to ask why out of all the members, FMW didn't
out the sub. Why didn't ABL?
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[] doocurly
hours ago
Ohhh, thanks for explaining that to me.

Sadly, it will be a whack-a-mole game with
your many alts too.
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points 13 hours ago
Because I was a mere member, and not a particularly

popular one. Not a mod, no power to add or invite
anyone.
I could, like anyone else, nominate someone for
membership (though I never did). If the group agreed
and the mod approved, users could be added. Any
single member in the group could blackball a nominee
for any reason (such as "I don't like him").
I didn't inform Rabia because, like fight club, the first
rule of bonner was never talk about bonner. That
went pretty well until Janecc started talking about
bonner on subreddits and in emails to people from
Facebook, etc. After Jane outed bonner, I was gone
and didn't see that it was my place to tell anyone
anything.
Wrt to Rabia, when she expressed an interest in
joining NarcoticsUnit (where I do moderate), she was
invited and participated. I rarely interacted with Rabia
however and found her to be somewhat aloof in
dealing with a peon like me. I had no way of knowing
if SS had broken the first rule of Bonner and talked
about it with Rabia and figured that was none of my
business.
Nice try attempting to make me responsible for
anything that happened in Bonner! Have an up vote.
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ago
9 points 13 hours
I followed the rules established by

/u/whitenoise2323
, which were a
condition of my participation. it wasn't my
farm, wasn't my pig. Call it whatever you
want, defender of Rabia. If Rabia has
problems with this issue, she's a big girl
and can speak up for herself (as she
frequently demonstrates). And you can
blame all 25 or 30 members on Bonner for
deceiving Rabia (see list in OP) and go

after them, too. I suggest you start with
Susan Simpson since she was the one
getting documents from Rabia and
(allegedly) not telling her she was sharing
with a bunch of anonymous redditors.
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Was is ethical to exclude /u/rabiasquared

from the sub
discussing the very case documents that she gave to Susan?
wow. I don't care much for Rabia, but that's just wrong.
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[] ImBlowingBubbles
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I want to thank you again for all this information. Its rather weird but illuminating
and helped motivate my post on hiding personal information.
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[] doocurly
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Sure thing. Thanks for taking the time to peek behind the veil!
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[] whitenoise2323
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You made it look like I recommended finding a location for a phone number when I
only recommended finding the area relative to an exchange. It's misleading
redaction.
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5 points 1 day ago
I think I am fully caught up and whoa...it was a ride. But can someone PLEASE explain
to me the MVA theory or point me to a thread, if one is available in a non private sub?
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It goes like this: Stephanie rear-ended Hae either in the WHS parking lot or on a
nearby road. Hae wasn't wearing a seatbelt. Hitting the steering wheel fractured
Hae's hyoid. The reason it was Stephanie is because it took her 55 minutes to
take her sister home from school and get back to WHS. The car and body were
hidden, Hae's car & Stephanie's car got undercover repairs. Stephanie called Jay
(on Adnan's phone) to help her cover it up. Adnan didn't know what happened at
first but figured it out & is rotting in prison because there's more to their
relationship than anyone knows.
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11 points 1 day ago
I'm sorry, you can't be serious. This is a joke right?

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7 points 1 day ago
WOW... ok, thanks! LOL

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[] doocurly
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LOL is right. All the autopsy and car damage posts by EP were trying
to establish a foundation for this.
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6 points 1 day ago
And here I thought he was the wiser of the three.

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[] TheFraulineS
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Yes, I even remember him mentioning the thought briefly in one

of his blogposts. And he asked Young Lee if there was any other
damage to the car, as his alt Pappy_John.
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5 points 1 day ago
And yes pdxkat, I seriously think that.

You are also EP.
Don't mind me. Carry on!
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[] pdxkat
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O ooooh Shiny
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5 points 1 day ago
No problem!
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[] A stariaEriol
8 points 1 day ago
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Holy shit
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[] dirtybitsxxx
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12 points 1 day ago
Im crying I'm laughing so hard.

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9 points 1 day ago
It's really tremendous. I imagine the theory being delivered in a lecture

hall and him expecting a slow-clap-to-standing-ovation and being met
with uncomfortable silence.
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11 points 1 day ago
I just had a crazy vision that it comes out that this is what really
happened and we all walk away slowly and quietly, never to speak
of this sub again.....
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9 points 1 day ago
I'll eat my hat!

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[] julieannie
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5 points 1 day ago
I remember seeing that as a passing mention but I had no clue people ran
with that. Wow.
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[] Nowinaminute
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6 points 1 day ago
Someone saw The Great Gatsby

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[] CreusetController
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10 points 1 day ago
Just a test of whether I can actually post in here. And WTF??!!??

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8 points 1 day ago
Founder and moderator-in-chief. That's pretty funny :D

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[] doocurly
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Do you deny this? You deny being the creator of the sub and the mod?
Seriously?
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7 points 1 day ago
Who are the mods on TMP?

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12 points 1 day ago
It fell on me after a failed attempt at a Yahoo group which I didn't start and
was invited to (that Yahoo crap sucks, btw). I'm kind of a lazy moderator,
so basically I just do whatever everyone tells me to do. Don't think I'm
some kind of mastermind or boss or head honcho in this whole thing. I just
clicked the button to start the sub.
Honestly, y'all are very emotionally invested in this reddit drama. It's
disturbing.
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[] doocurly
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Well, call it what you want. Honest posts about bad behavior is drama?
Meh, whatevs.
Isn't mastermind a compliment? lol
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4 points 1 day ago
I guess it's the word "chief" that denotes some kind of authority,
of which I have none.
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6 points 1 day ago
You leave that up to ss

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[] jonsnowme
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Oh my God. When will this drama end? Stop treating sub-reddits as some sort of
measurement of popularity or social status. As someone that's been in the bonner
party, it is nothing like you've described. As for FMW, I don't know much about her or
her decisions but I do know something isn't quite right there... considering the day she
closed NU she sent me a weird scathing email telling me that I was the reason she
closed NU down because of a comment I made that she took as me bashing her mod
decisions or something like that. I distanced myself right away but it's all so fucking
weird that this just adds to the pile. Get a grip people. Go outside. I think the air will be
good for all of you.

Holy crap, some of you need lives stat. The reddit drama surrounding Serial is starting
to become very disturbing.
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10 points 1 day ago
"starting to become"?
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4 points 1 day ago
I agree there, understatement of the year, am I right?

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[] doocurly
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You seem way more upset than me, lol.

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9 points 1 day ago
Annoyed doesn't really = upset. Every week there is new nonsense from
someone not getting enough attention or love or something on one of
these subreddits that shit gets flown. It's all pretty annoying and quite
frankly pathetic. I suggest again to go outside. I don't have to be upset to
point any of this stuff out. It's just extremely baffling. But if this is what
entertains you and really puts a feeling of importance in your life, you do
you and enjoy doing it.
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You're right. You must know my life, inside and out.

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4 points 1 day ago
Let me slow you down a bit there. jon, I've always known you to be a
reasonable guy. I wouldn't say we interacted a lot, but I've never felt
any ill will towards you.
But there is something you need to understand. A lot of us DID walk
away. We kept getting dragged back into it. What's posted here is
only the tip of the iceberg.
Were you aware that after NU was shutdown and reopened with a
completely different focus (on non-Syed related stuff, which is why
only few were invited back), there was an attempt by the mods of TMP
to take over NU as if they had some kind of claim on it. As you can
imagine, that set a lot of us off. We couldn't just walk away.
Even long after we were all banned, our names keep popping up over
there in whatever the latest round of gossip is. Practically speaking,

how can we walk away? Some have had to change their usernames to
get far enough away from all this. Far from getting away from it, it only
fueled the sock accusations.
It sounds reasonable to say "it's just a stupid sub, let it go," but the
reality is that we've tried and we can't.
I hope that helps explain some of the animosity many are expressing
here.
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7 points 1 day ago
I'm a girl :D but yeah, I've not felt ill will toward anyone really. I
wasn't aware NU reopened and wouldn't be shocked that I
wasn't invited (I still have a weird taste in my mouth from getting
out of the blue weird pms and accusations from the mod there
but I thought everyone had moved on from this bs) and from
what I've been told, TMP mods just went in and copied some
stuff that people at TMP worked hard on over there so that we'd
have it for reference. I haven't seen anything to prove that there
was some kind of fight for a take over and I'm not sure how the
TMP mods could stake claim on a sub like that (and I see no
proof of this in the post above).
To be honest everything I've read just feels like a lot of butt
hurt. I say that not in regards to you but to other posters here
and the fact that a post like this has to exist at all and the fact
that to get some headway and make a 'splash' it had to be
opened publicly. To me that says it's all about attention rather
than concern. As someone that's really only enjoyed TMP for
talking about the Serial case I have read a lot of the comments,
interacted with a lot of the people mentioned in this post as a
"Jane Sock" and even weird accusations against completely nice
and respectful people (those being accused of being CM, SS,
Rabia etc) and it just seems like a big weird war to me at the end
of the day.
I get it's hard to walk away when you enjoy discussing Serial.
Cool! Keep doing that. I'm going to keep discussing the case and
new findings and revelations when I can but this is the last I'm
going to post about all of this drama.
The drama is what I feel is easiest to step away from. Was this
post necessary? No. Did it do anything but act against itself? Not
in my opinion. At the end of the day TMP and everyone involved
is going to keep doing what they do. Undisclosed will keep
happening, posts on all subs will keep flowing. I get what you're
saying, really. But is adding another massive shitfest on top of
the already mountain of shit really worth it? What's the goal
here? To expose people in ways that really, not many people
even care about? If you have more to say, you can PM me! My
thoughts is just that we're all human beings at the end of the
day. No one here happens to be a "hacker" or expert at
detecting socks. There is speculation but this stuff just harms
everyone more than it needs to. I hope it all levels out and
people can go back to talking about Serial on whatever platform
they choose. I don't think it can be denied that when posts like
this are made, it just seems like people are involving themselves
on levels that are bizarre and unhealthy.
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13 points 1 day ago
The biggest problem for me was that being kicked out of

the sub for no reason could have happened to anyone, and
can still happen to anyone, just because the person in
charge thinks on a whim that someone is a sock/mole/potstirrer/whatever. It can literally happen to any one of you at
any moment, and that is not the kind of environment I am
on board with, ever. TMP can be upset about what FMW did
with NU, but it's the same thing when the sub creator can
remove anyone for any reason and no one can say
anything lest they are also removed with no recourse. It's
true none of this is very important, ultimately, but when
you spend so much time and energy on something, it kinda
sucks when it's ripped out from under you. Like NU was for
TMP, and like TMP was for all those removed for no reason.
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6 points 1 day ago
I'm a girl :D
My apologies on that one. I have a 50/50 chance, therefore
I will be wrong 100% of the time.
I know you wanted to leave it with that. And this isn't
trying to bait you out more. So, in the sake of fairness,
this will be my final comment on this particular tangent as
well (I'm not always good at biting my tongue, so this is big
for me).
A lot of what you are seeing actually IS people expressing
how they're butt hurt. You're not wrong in that. And
people want to express that. That's not wrong. Any
attempt to silence such a conversation, in my opinion, is a
polite way of saying "We banned you, now you should
somehow feel an obligation to keep quiet about it."

Honestly, I recognize no such obligation.
And you're right, a lot of this IS bizarre and unhealthy. But
unstated in that is that it is only unhealthy for US to say
that. When the mods are engaged in this kind of bizarre
behavior (as the OP is bringing to our attention with such a
post), then it's somehow ok? In what world does that
make sense? How come no one is getting after them about
it being petty and just plain stupid? It is only petty when
we address it.
I think the number of people who have involved themselves
in this conversation shows how much people do care about
it.
I've said this before I was even banned, but I truly do not
thing the sub was started with those intentions in mind. I
don't believe they meant to be as dictatorial as they are.
But that doesn't excuse the fact that the sub has gotten
out of control and become just that.
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6 points 1 day ago
butthurt
Apt TL;DR for this whole thread.
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[] Tu-Stultus-Es
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-2 points 23 hours ago
Not really.
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[] ImBlowingBubbles
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6 points 1 day ago
I don't really understand this post and I am not sure I really want to.
All I can say is wow...mind blown! What the heck is going on?
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5 points 1 day ago
This
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[] LipidSoluble
Lul. Accurate.
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[] doocurly
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My sub, my post, my rules. If you get banned from here, you earned it. Tell your
friends, folks.
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4 points 1 day ago
"The inability of people to communicate with each other, not particularly internationally
but especially emotionally, so what you see around you are people unable to love each
other."
Shhhhhh.....
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[] A DDGemini
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6 points 1 day ago
That is one of my all-time favorite songs. Thank you :) My 7th grade English
teacher always played Simon and Garfunkel or The Moody Blues while we worked;
I am forever grateful to him.
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8 points 1 day ago
I watched the Simon and Garfunkel reunion concert in Central Park on

Palladium last week, actually cried, that's how much I love them!
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5 points 1 day ago
They are my all time favorite roadtrip-daydreaming soundtrack. =D

I missed that! Damn. Is Palladium an app?
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4 points 1 day ago
Cable channel, shows a lot of old concerts.

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[] clairehead
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1 point 1 day ago
...
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[] cross_mod
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4 points 1 day ago
This is exciting!! And kind of silly...
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2 points 1 day ago
I'm continually amazed by the lack of understanding of what constitutes doxxing.

Doxxing is the public broadcasting of private information, not the private sharing of
public information. Mostly it refers to outing the identity of anonymous internet users
and/or putting people's addresses, social security numbers, etc. on something like
pastebin and then tweeting it to thousands or millions of people.
On an unrelated note, thanks for the gold you gave me way back when doo. You were
the first to gild me and I'll never forget it.
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8 points 1 day ago
This is not true for the Reddit world. shit I couldn't even find the list of names
from the Ashley Madison hack on here. People would post it and they quickly take
it down.
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-2 points 1 day ago* (las t edited 1 day ago)
Was the list you couldn't find being posted publicly or in a private sub?
There's a big difference between those two. Also the Ashley Madison leak is
a far cry from public information which can be found on gov't websites etc.
available to anyone. The clients of Ashley Madison were promised some
modicum of privacy by that website and the hacker who obtained that
information broke the law.
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Reddit has a pretty no-nonsense rule for the sharing of information,

be it private or on public record.
Posting personal information about someone, even information said
person posted in public about themselves is considered doxxing by
Reddit's standards and rules. It may be public information, but
gathering it all in once place for a bunch of nosy people to pick apart
with extreme ease is a violation of personal privacy.
Unless you are the NSA.
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It's interesting. Early on the mods of /r/serialpodcast were some

of the first people in this case to start posting links to things like
Jay's criminal record, for example. By the time I came around
they had established a policy that this information wouldn't be
allowed on that sub. I didn't understand that and posted a
couple of comments and links and the mods removed my links
and banned me. We had some polite exchanges over PM and the
mods who I spoke with acknowledged a "gray area" relative to

publicly available information. They didn't indicate that what I had
done (and they had done earlier) constituted doxxing and
despite much of this type of posting having happened at various
times on /r/serialpodcast I haven't heard of reddit admin
shadowbanning or banning anyone because of doxxing.
Further, my point included the sharing of public information on a
private forum. It's not like anything is being broadcast for the
whole world to see.
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It doesn't matter via rules of Reddit. The reason they took

that stance was because it's against the TOS of Reddit
usage.
It doens't matter if it's shared on a public or private forum.
It shouldn't be shared at all.
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It shouldn't be shared among whom at all? Law

enforcement shares such info (as you mentioned the
NSA). What about private investigators? Involved
parties? Is the sharing of anyone's telephone number
by anyone in a private forum on the internet
unethical? I don't think it's cut and dry. It certainly
isn't doxxing, as the accusations have contended.
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[] LipidSoluble
Among anyone on Reddit. Because you know.

Terms of Service and Rules of Reddit.
But who cares about the terms and rules of the
site upon which everyone is operating?
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[] whitenoise2323
I am not convinced that sharing Jay's

criminal record is a violation of the TOS of
Reddit. He's a public figure (has been since
he did the Intercept interview) and these
are public records. Reddit's "private
information" policy is almost exclusively
about linking to people's personally
identifying information. He identified

himself publicly. I think it's apples and
oranges.
By this definition the telephone book, tax
assessors office records, and much of the
public library would be "doxxing".
Journalists wouldn't have anything to
pursue leads with. I mean, it's an
interesting ethics conversation... and
there are new challenges because of the
internet age, but nobody on any sub I've
seen is finding and publishing people's
street addresses, home phone numbers,
etc.
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[] LipidSoluble
Posting someone's Facebook page is

against the rules. Why would
someone's criminal record be
exempt?
From
https://www.reddit.com/wiki/faq :
Is posting personal information ok?
NO. reddit is a pretty open and free
speech place, but it is not ok to post
someone's personal information, or
post links to personal information.
This includes links to public Facebook
pages and screenshots of Facebook
pages with the names still legible.
We all get outraged by the ignorant
things people say and do online, but
witch hunts and vigilantism hurt
innocent people and certain individual
information, including personal info
found online is often false. Posting
personal information will get you
banned. Posting professional links to
contact a congressman or the CEO
of some company is probably fine,
but don't post anything inviting
harassment, don't harass, and don't
cheer on or vote up obvious
vigilantism.
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[] doocurly
Per reddit:
Please don't:
Post someone's personal information, or post links to personal information. This
includes links to public Facebook pages and screenshots of Facebook pages with
the names still legible. We all get outraged by the ignorant things people say and
do online, but witch hunts and vigilantism hurt innocent people too often, and
such posts or comments will be removed. Users posting personal info are subject
to an immediate account deletion. If you see a user posting personal info, please
contact the admins. Additionally, on pages such as Facebook, where personal
information is often displayed, please mask the personal information and
personal photographs using a blur function, erase function, or simply block it out
with color. When personal information is relevant to the post (i.e. comment
wars) please use color blocking for the personal information to indicate whose
comment is whose.
And you're welcome for the gold, because I believe that it's important to
contribute to this site, and to be honest and verifiable.
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[] jonsnowme
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Magne t C ultist
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1 point 1 day ago
Yet you posted it all here for EVERYONE to see (aka not a private forum
whatsoever) in screencaps?
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[] doocurly
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Oh my, in pubic! The humanity! Seriously, people think I owe Jane and
The Magnets (I call that name for a band) some privacy? I don't. It
kinda boggles the mind how insulated you all have become, like a cult.
Like I have to get permission from the leader before I address the
congregation.
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[] [de le te d] 1 day ago* (las t edited 1 day ago)
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[] doocurly
Sorry Jon, I'm not buying what you're selling. Best wishes
on a great future in TMP.
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-4 points 1 day ago
I try not to complain about or comment on up/down voting but this comment
went up to 9 dropped back down to zero and now is up to 6. Strange! The same
is true of my Ashley Madison comment below.
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[] totallytopanga
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TLDR?
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[] doocurly
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/u/alwaysbelagertha
...I'm sorry that you can't get anything past that concrete wall
you have up, but you need to know that your suspicions of every move that everyone
makes on reddit all leads back to Frosted is insane.
I am rarely offended, but I will tell you that I'm offended greatly if you are insinuating in
your messages that no one can make any post or effort without being manipulated by
Frosted. This post and information is of my own making. I don't need anyone's
permission to share what I know or what has been messaged to me. If you don't like
the information about all the janes, hey, don't worry about what the evidence says.
I've got my own reasons for posting this post, and somewhere down on the list is
sticking up for a friend, and I've taken far too long to do that much. I've had the janes
list since March, and lots of people can verify that I've considered taking that
information forward waaaaaaay before you began blaming everything that's wrong with
your sub on Frosted. Ask /u/sleepingbeardune
. Ask /u/Shrimpchimp
. They knew
I had that information long ago, long before the Alpha60 crap. You can call me whatever
you want, but I'll not be accused of being someone's minion or of being unoriginal.
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3 points 1 day ago
So many socks, it's kinda scary, like everyone here has a Walternate. Or is it more like
being a Cylon? I mean, would I know if I'm a sock?
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[] bluekanga
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7 points 1 day ago
Well if you walk like a duck and sound like a duck - which I confirm you do - then
you must be!!

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4 points 1 day ago
Caprica 6, is that you?

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[] MightyIsobel
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4 points 1 day ago
They have a plan.

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[] doocurly
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Stick to flip-flops, kid.

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Well, I guess I'll speak up since I seem to be a part of these revelations.

First of all, Doocurly is a real friend of mine. She is one of a handful of people I've met
on reddit over the past almost-10-months that I would trust to accompany me on a
Las Vegas weekend. She knows things about my life that I rarely share. She's seen my
kids! I am poking my head up here to support my friend (not that doo gives a fuck
what anyone thinks about her - just one of many things I like about her) and to share
a few thoughts with the Adnan-centric Serial-related reddit community.
For anyone who might read this that doesn't already know, I have been universally
reviled by most former /r/NarcoticsUnit members for "destroying," "killing," or "shutting
down" that subreddit, which I also created. There was one former, pearl-clutching
member who was absolutely appalled that, when I was queried about what happened to
NU, I responded that I'd killed the bitch and thrown it in the trunk of my Sentra (I
know, not for everyone but I often have an inappropriate sense of humor; I guess it
was too soon for a Hae murder joke. Maybe in another 16 years...).
Somehow the "We hate Frosted for destroying NU" mentality evolved into "Frosted is
the enemy who is infiltrating our space and exposing our secrets."
Early on in the history of /r/TheMagnetProgram, I was accused of having a sock in that
subreddit. I was accused of sharing screen caps from that private subreddit with
guilters. I was eventually accused of being a "guilter" and colluding with other guilters. I
have been accused of being Harleyquinndc, UneEtrangeAventure et al, and most
recently Mrs. Direction (I allegedly helped Justwonderinif with her fucktard BestBuy
doodle theory - insert eye-roll). Now there is speculation that I am not just helping
Justwonderinif but I am in fact Justwonderinif her ownself, queen bee of the quilter
world (and I am both repulsed and flattered by that accusation).
Wait! You may be asking yourself if I don't have a sock in TMP how do I know what
/u/theodoreadorno
(with an "e") is accusing me of today? Good question, amateur
detectives! I know because 1) I never killed NarcoticsUnit; it has been working for an
electronics manufacturer in Seoul lo these many months and 2) members of NU who are
members of TMP regularly post the latest bullshit from TMP in NU. I don't solicit this
information. I have little interest in TMP - never have. But people talk. It's not cats who
power reddit, it's gossip.
My initial response to janecc's accusation that I am Justwonderinif was but wait, look at
my comment history. JWI and I really don't like each other. JWI's certainty about Adnan
Syed's guilt, to the point she would risk something in her real life against her being
wrong about that, makes me ill. But then I recalled - this is Jane we're talking about the redditor who wouldn't imagine someone running a really, really long con, talking to
another of alleged personnas in a very realistic fashion being an odd or unusual thing.
This is the redditor who, upon being shadow-banned for using multiple accounts to
manipulate votes responded by putting in place tools to allow her sockery to continue
undetected. Jane didn't start using tor and pay for some hidemyshit service to keep
Janecc from being associated with her new, known username theodoreadorno (with an
"e"). She admitted on multiple subreddit's that /u/theodoreadorno
was in fact the
same as Janecc. What other reason did Janecc have for equipping herself against sock
detection? Oh yeah, because she was going to keep socking around using those
usernames admin was too stupid to catch.
I am not certain what reddit admin can actually do regarding identifying socks. I invite
them to compare the IP information for my account against every user Jane and the
moderators at TMP have accused me of being. I don't use tor. I'm not paying a monthly
fee for someone to "hidemyshit" like Jane. I imagine my log on shows more than one IP
because I use different devices. I am not however logging on in a single day from the
Netherlands, China, South Africa, etc. I'd like to see admin compare my IP information
to JWI's and Une's and Mrs. Direction. I suspect Jane and Une would share one trait in
common - they're the ones trying to hide their footprints.
Edited for formatting. I haven't posted in so long I've forgotten how to create a
paragraph break!
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[] A DDGemini
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7 points 1 day ago
Nice to read your comments again :)

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[] flwrsme
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8 points 1 day ago
wow. So are you and the OP still apart of NU? Have you been shuned by the 3
podcasters? Whats your stance with them? Do you agree with OP that SS has
asked and is ok with doxxing people?
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7 points 1 day ago
I am a moderator of NarcoticsUnit. It still exists and is my favorite place on

the Internet. The OP is a friend of mine. She belongs to subs that I don't
and vice versa.
I never had a real relationship with any of the bloggers. Because of

circumstances (crap that happened on /r/Serialpodcast) they all ended up
posting exclusively on NarcoticsUnit as far as reddit goes. I had reddit
exchanges with Susan Simpson and ai think she is intelligent, curious, and
an overall nice lady. I imagine her incvestigative work includes "doxxing," but
that's only a thing on reddit. The smartest thing I recall Simpson ever
saying was that one shouldn't post anything anywhere on the Internet that
one didn't want eventually shared with the world. Great advice.
Simpson shared some "insidery" info with me; I have never shared any of
that with the world at large. It certainly had nothing to do with Adnan
Syed's guilt or doxxing anyone. Based on the Susan Simpson I briefly
interacted with I have doubts that she knows about all of the crazy
shenanigans that have gone on in TMP. Susan always seemed rather drama
averse to me.
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[] flwrsme
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8 points 1 day ago
thanks for the reply

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3 points 1 day
You are most welcome.

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[] Mrs_Direction
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7 points 1 day ago
What? I'm not a sock. I'm not JWI. I'm not Uni.
From the looks of it, you have my IP and know this.
Please keep me out of this.
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0 points 1 day ago
I don't have your anything. Address your concerns about being accused of
being me to /u/theodoreadorno
. I wouldn't know how to find anyone's IP
if it were sitting right in front of me.
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[] Mrs_Direction
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7 points 1 day ago
Cool. I'm not you, in case you're wondering :)

I am only me!
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[] TheFraulineS
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6 points 1 day ago
But , but, I thought we were one...!?
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;)
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[] Mrs_Direction
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6 points 1 day ago
In our hearts and the stars we are aligned as one! Just like
the musical "Cats" now and forever
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[] TheFraulineS
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4 points 1 day ago
Yes, meow and forever

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2 points 1 day
Thanks! Good to know. I was starting to feel like I was appearing

in the United States of tara
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4 points 1 day ago
I don't know you, or at least I don't think I do. I almost like you for "fucktard
theory". Succinct, accurate and witty. But also a strong whiff of drama queen for
all the bitching and willingness to shit on people. So I am not buying this, but
thank you for the entertainment and a rare moment of fellow feeling with
chunklunk, frauline and co.
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1 point 1 day ago
Well creuset (my favorite cookware!), I don't know you either but you've
been my favorite poster on SP over the past couple of weeks that I've paid
attention. I've been shat upon quite a bit so I hope you'll take that into
account. I wonder why you would respond here though since you don't
know me and don't have a dog in the fight. Just a need to be seen?
Anyway, looking forward to your continued, clever posts! YOU should be a
new SP mod :)
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[] segovius
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4 points 1 day ago
I used to be a Creuset fan but try a Staub if you're serious about

cooking and you won't look back.
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4 points 1 day ago
Just making use of the invite really. Wondering quite how and why my
name was on any list, I might have a pretty good idea about that
actually, and generally being suspicious. Still being suspicious.
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[] doocurly
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Yes indeed, we are real people, with real lives. Thank you for showing your
support, and I'm sorry that you've been drug through the mud, time after time.
Seems like the real people that should have been bathing in the mud have finally
been called down to the trough.
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[] [de le te d] 1 day ago
[deleted]
3 points 1 day ago
I see that you have pasted a message from NarcoticsUnitMod here. That /u/
was shared by 5 people and I don't recall corresponding with you, whoever
you are.
I'm not trying to pass myself off as anything. I am a person with one /u/
who made a decision months ago to disassociate myself from a reddit world
I was no longer comfortable with.
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[] alwaysbelagertha
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-2 points 1 day ago
This is unfair doo, you know I never doubted you. You know me very well too, and if
you're choosing to believe that we ban people bc they question us, well that's your
choice. This is disappointing. Let me know if you still want to be a part of TMP.
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[] dcrizoss
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14 points 1 day ago
You shouldn't get offended so easily. What doo said is something that had
needed to be said. We all came together for a specific reason and all this business
with socks is absolutely bonkers. Wild accusations and virtual slap fights are
pointless. I for one would love to get to the bottom of this case and am always
interested in new information but sometimes it's hard to take stuff seriously when
you know there are some people that are literally talking to themselves and
causing dramatics for the hell of it. Shit, sometime I have to step over to /r/aww
just for a time out. You kicked me out of TMP once because I never posted or
participated. Now you know why. Just a suggestion but if you want TMP to be
different than all of the craziness that is reddit, you should have all users verify
themselves and encourage people to stay away from the dramatic cesspool that
SP has become. I'll be the first to volunteer.
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[] doocurly
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I think you have some major, major housekeeping to do over there before you
worry about lil' ol' me. Seems like there's a whole basket of socks in TMP to match
up.
You might also want to check with Jane as to why her and AnnB have been in
each other's google circles for a long time.
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-5 points 1 day ago
If this is the tone you want to converse in, I think we don't have much to
talk about anymore. What a disappointment.
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15 points 1 day ago
Is there merit to what /u/doocurly

the substantiality of this?
said, though? Can we address
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11 points 1 day ago
As a former TMP mod who voluntarily quit, and the holder of the
now closed account where everyone's posts and personal info
from NU was infodumped, there is too much merit to this post to
be comfortable. I quit sometime around when they started
banning people willy nilly and were crowdsource doxxing people. I
saw things that were way not okay.
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[] doocurly
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I'm glad to fork over anything that was messaged to me. I have
no secrets, Duke. :)
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13 points 1 day ago
so are you saying that ryokinecko is a sock?

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8 points 1 day ago
It sure seems that is what doocurly is saying.

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[] bluekanga
8 points 1 day ago
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Thx - bloody hell - what a mess

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[] peymax1693
points 1 day ago
I fully expect you guys are going to run

with this . . . I guess it's time to batten
down the hatches.
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[] bluekanga
14 points 1 day ago
We're nice really- pussycats by

comparison to many on that list;)
this may go a long way to
explaining the toxicity on the
DS and hence why everyone
was getting p***ed because
we were getting hostile
comebacks from so many
users - most of whom are on
that list (not all I hasten to
add).
All we want is some civilised,
respectful discourse - not warfare it seemed like we had to go into
battle every time we went on the DS
for no good reason.
We may disagree but we can still do
it without hurting people
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[] _noiresque_
No. I'm catching up and trying to

work out what this is about tbh. But
sock subterfuge and the subsequent
mistrust is unpleasant regardless of
which camp you're in. I will say (and
I'm not being snarky here), I
wouldn't want to be a member of an
insular sub where there is so much
paranoia and thought control: both
emblematic of totalitarian thinking.

Sadly, I think it has fuelled suspicion
and intolerance in the main sub. I've
been on the receiving end of the
former, and it is unpleasant, to say
the least. Anyway, have a good day,
Mr. P :-)
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[] bluekanga
9 points 1 day ago
Also it's been confirmed that the

Doxxing of SSR was crowd sourced
on TMP - if that's true that's bloody
disgraceful
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[] doocurly
ago
I'm passing along the information that was

given to me by a Bonnerite. Only that guy
knows what kind of research was done to link
everyone up. I don't know.
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[] peymax1693
points 1 day ago
If anybody claimed I am a sock, he or she

was completely wrong. Somebody owes
me an apology, or is it only FMW that you
care about?
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[] doocurly
points 1 day ago
I'm sorry that you weren't

controversial enough to be fingered
as a sock? I'm not sure what you are
looking for here. I've never heard
anyone accuse you having a sock or
being a sock of someone else, but

it's never too late to start!
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[] InTheory_
This is no doubt meant to sound like the high road. Instead, it sounds
like a cop out.
The mods are taking a beating. A lot of people are coming out of the
woodwork verifying that things aren't what they seem over there.
There's no way this discussion of 300+ 400+ 500+ 600+ comments is
from a mere handful of disgruntled ex members with feelings of sour
grapes.
This isn't going away. We'd all like to get an official response from the
mods over there.
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[] doocurly
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Well, there's a million Janes to talk it over with. Have fun with that.
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[] doocurly
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FYI, I made the sub public, so anyone can view it. Gasp! My guess is that you
have people among your own ranks that have passed along the information
above. Hurry, purge anyone that isn't Jane, a blogger or you, then lock the door!
Guess what? This post will still be here. All facts are friendly, friend.
Please, anyone, if you are a "guilter" and I invited you over here, speak up. The
accusations are flying
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7 points 1 day ago
Question, are you saying the mod at /r/serialpodcast is a janecc sock?

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[] doocurly
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I said below, and I'll repeat, that a member of Bonner provided that list
of users who had allegedly been tied together by a static IP trace. I'm
posting the list that he compiled, that's it.

I've never had a reason to think that Sir Bonnerite was lying,
dishonest, or had it out to hurt anyone. He was concerned that the
original user, Jane, was up to something outside of reddit, and I
declined his invitation to be involved in a sleuthing effort to prove or
disprove his suspicions.
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10 points 1 day ago
Thank you.
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[] LipidSoluble
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5 points 1 day ago
The scariest words in this post are 'static IP trace'.

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[] SWVeering
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The scariest words in this post are 'static IP trace'.

It's worth repeating.
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0 points 1 day ago
People say you are reasonable Scout so without introduction I'm

asking you a favour. Please consider the huge amount of personal time
it probably takes to be a mod of that very contentious subreddit, and
ask yourself if that doesn't exclude having as many active socks as are
being alleged, let alone evading detection by your fellow mod who you
work closely with. Tell waltz if you like, he's in an informed position,
but can we all keep calm about this and not start another bloody witch
hunt please? Thanks
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8 points 1 day ago
I think I was actually the one who first nominated Ryokineko and
I'm not going to join in any witch hunt. I'll take the same position
I took with HarleyQuinnDC and leave all this crap to admin.
Otherwise, except for being a little heavy handed with deletions,
Ryo is doing a fine job.
But see, this is what I'm talking about. I seriously don't know
who to trust. That is the damage the janeccs and the summers
and the Unes have done.
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Hi. I was really asking you in particular because I was

hoping you would use your influence. Sorry if it came out
wrong, I wasn't implying that was what I expected of you. I
agree about the socks. But I'm not sure they are the only
problem, and increasingly I think there is precious little any
of us, bar the mods, can do about them without actually
making it worse and causing just the sort of division and
shit stirring happening right in this post. Thanks for
replying.
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7 points 1 day ago
I was really asking you in particular because I was

hoping you would use your influence.
I don't know that I have any influence but I promise
not to be part of the problem. This sock stuff is crazy
and I don't know what to believe but my gut tells me
Ryo isn't janecc.
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[] LIL_CHIMPY
It's been my observation that it's very tough for

individuals like janecc -- assuming that some
semblance of a genuine personality shines
through and it's not just socks all the way down
-- to feign levelheadedness and impartiality. So
I'm with you re: Ryokineko.
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M Y SU BRE D D I T S - D A SH BO A RD - FRO N T - A L L - RA N D O M - MYRA NDOM - FRI E N D S - E D I T | SE RI A L P O D C A ST - WO

Innocent until proven

Well friends, Ive had my fill of

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14 points (70% upvoted)

Welcome all! We are a lounge for Magnets,

that everyone has come to abhor

Expect the boot if you can't get it

m e ssage the m ode rators

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All these people are on the up

Braid: NDP swamped by Wildrose

Turns out that there was a

7 points | 173 comments

Prasad Panda wins foothills by election

was masquerading as and why.

started small. I sent

knew. The mods booted Jane,

sure. Rabia, I'd get after

were right to be suspicious of

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18 points 1 day ago

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2 points 8 hours ago

19 points 1 day ago* (las t edited 1 day ago)

ETA: I deleted this.

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9 points 1 day ago

FWICT that's a pretty safe bet.

9 points 1 day ago

Boote dfrom Le ak inPark R ange rs:(

3 points 1 day ago

Fwiw, I don't believe tha eithert. Deleteanddeplete was recommended for

Moddy McMode rton [S] 1 point 1 day ago

4 points 1 day ago

Will you be posting them?

Moddy McMode rton [S] -1 points 1 day ago

11 points 1 day ago

Just curious why you think EP would even need a sock?

10 points 20 hours ago

I would assume to help the science be swallowed a lot

9 points 13 hours ago

I watched so many questionable claims pass

11 points 13 hours ago

I already did until I was blue in the face! To

3 points 9 hours ago

I appreciate your comments and have

8 points 7 hours ago

Thank you! I wish the medicine gave

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11 points 13 hours ago

Okay, I lied. Google mixed lividity, and it will give

8 points 12 hours ago

Ha, I don't even have to google. I already

11 points 12 hours ago

Name, blog, and Reddit posts that fill

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