5/30/2015

"ButyourProphetisapedophile":islam

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SalamAlaikum(peacebeuponyou)andwelcometo/r/Islam!
"ButyourProphetisapedophile" (imgur.com)

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[] wolflarsen 31points1dayago*

"morality"??
Morelikepracticality...notalotofhomesapienswalkingtheeartharoundyouinaneardesertagriculturallandscape,withlife
expectancybarelyabove40?Yeah,you'regonnaseemarriageableagesplummet.
Easilythelast5,00010,000yearsitsbeenlikethat.ImaginewhenAfricansstartedmakingkids?OrtheChinese.OrtheRomans.
OrtheIndiansubcontinent.OrtheIncas/Mayanswhichever.Makesnogoodpracticalsensetohavesocietyasawholehaveaverage
ageofgirl'smarriagetobeanythingpastpuberty.
You'regonnaneedsomethingliketheIndustrialRevolutiontorewriteallofthat:
1. Higherlifeexpectancy
2. Urbanization
3. Massproductionofgoods
4. Theeventualneedtoeducatepeopleforthenewworld
Iftoday,wehadapostApocalypticMadMaxworld,whatdoyouguesswouldhappentoageoffirstconceptionamongstgirls?
Goup,staythesameorplummet?Exactly.
EDIT:headsup...I'veseemedtohavehitanerveandmadetheredditgodsangry.
Braceyourselves:crossposttrollingincoming.....
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[] Emberstorm 30points1dayago*

TheissueisthatpeoplesaythatMuslimsbelievetheprophet tobethepinnacleofmorality,whichistrue,andthereforeall
ofhisactionscarryobjective,universalmoralweightforus,regardlessofcontext.
Thispartisnottruesimplybecausetheprophet

didsomethingdoesnotmeanithasanyintrinsicallymoralproperties

fromwhichamaximofmoralitycanbederivednecessarily.Theprophet rodecamelsandworetunicsyetneitherriding
camels,norwearingtunics,areregardedbyMuslimsasthingsthatpositanymoraldata.Thesalientpointisthatanactiononly
hasmoraldataifitisassignedanybywhichevermoralsystemonesubscribesto(suchaspresentistswiththeirretroactive
applicationsoftheirrelativisticmoralityorMuslimswiththeirIslamicmorality).SoonecannotsaythatMuslimsbelievethat
literallyeverythingtheprophet
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didcarriedanysortofmoraldata,asthathasbeendemonstratedtonotbetrue.

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[] wolflarsen 11points1dayago

Moreso,thinkpracticality...atscale.
Inthiscase,noticehowwithmarriageIslamdoesn'thavesethardcodedrules..ithasboundsandsomeminimacriteria
thatneedstobemet.Afterthatyourculture,eraandcircumstancewillimplementtherestasbestasitcantoremain
withinthefold.
That'swhyoneshouldundercutthiswholeantimuslimargumentationpointofeventryingtobringinultrasuperperfect
moralistsnarrativesintothepicture.Thatis,evenbeforeyougetthereIbetasecularnonmuslimnationinsimilar
conditionswouldadapttotheirenvironmentinthesameway,noquestionsasked.
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[] seniormunchies 4points1dayago

http://np.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/37nqgo/but_your_prophet_is_a_pedophile/

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Atthesametime,theactionshediddoposeamoralvalueinthatifhedidsomethingitcan'tbeconsideredintrinsically
immoral.
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[] Emberstorm 6points1dayago*

ifhedidsomethingitcan'tbeconsideredintrinsicallyimmoral.
Everythingtheprophet
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didwaseithertheapexofmoralityorpositednomoralinformationatallso,yes.

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[] Murica4Eva 5points1dayago

Isthattruethroughouthislife,andpriortohisfirstrevelation?
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[] Emberstorm 9points1dayago

It'sreportedthathewasverypopularamongthepeopleofMeccaforbeingavery"morally"uprightperson
andwasknownas"alAmin"(thetrustworthy)and"asSadiq"(thetruthful/righteous),but,officially,Ithink
itwouldbeafterhereceivedrevelationasthatwouldbewhenGodwasdirectlyguidinghismorality.
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[] ThreshingBee 1point1dayago

Rulesandmoralsgoverningsexualpracticehavearguablybeenaroundsinceeitherbegan.Thechoiceoftransportation
isn'tofequalmoralsignificancetothechoiceofwhom,orwhat,toengagesexually.
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[] mooserstupid 1point18hoursago

Thequrandoesseemtotellmuslimstofollowmo'scodeofconduct.
Say,[OMuhammad],"IfyoushouldloveAllah,thenfollowme,[so]Allahwillloveyouandforgiveyouyoursins.And
AllahisForgivingandMerciful."(3:31)
http://quran.com/3/31
TherehascertainlybeenforyouintheMessengerofAllahanexcellentpatternforanyonewhosehopeisinAllahand
theLastDayand[who]remembersAllahoften.(33:21)
http://quran.com/33/21
Say,[OMuhammad],"Omankind,indeedIamtheMessengerofAllahtoyouall,[fromHim]towhombelongsthe
dominionoftheheavensandtheearth.ThereisnodeityexceptHimHegiveslifeandcausesdeath."Sobelievein
AllahandHisMessenger,theunletteredprophet,whobelievesinAllahandHiswords,andfollowhimthatyoumaybe
guided.(7:158)
http://quran.com/7/158
Imnotgoingtoarguewithanyonehere.I'veprovidedtheverses,youcaninterpretthemhoweveryouwant.
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[] krutopatkin 14points1dayago

withlifeexpectancybarelyabove40
lifeexpectancywasn'tlowbecausepeoplediedalotearlierthantoday(gettingtothe60swasn'tuncommon)butbecause
infantmortalitywassomuchhigherthanitistoday.Thisisacommonmisconception.
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[] shaziru 3points1dayago

Alsonotethatdeathsbydiseasewerecommonaswell,sothatwould'vebeenaplayingfactor.
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[] wolflarsen 3points1dayago*

ThengobackintimeandtellpplontheAfricanplainstowaituntiltheir25tohavekids.OrtellthatRomansoldier
fightingforadozenyearstowaituntilthatnobleman'stweenageddaughterisalotolder.
Factofthematteris,that'showhumansadaptedtotheirenvironment.
RightnowyouandIcanaffordtohaveachildhoodintoour30's.Butifyouwerelivingonafarmyoumostprobablygot
workingwiththerestofthecommunityrealyoungandmarriedafterpubertyandlifewenton.
Youweretaughtlikeeveryoneelsetogetmarriedyoungandstartmakingbabies.Thisisnotsomethingevenarguable?
edit:grammar
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[] wolflarsen 2points1dayago

Sorry,IshouldhaveaddedIyourpoint.Yesitwasn'tuncommonforpeopletolivepast60butthatdoesn'tseemLikethey
tookitforgranted.
Inaniteratedbestapproachitseemsthewholeagriculturalworldconvergedonmarryyoungandprocreate.
Asforlifeexpectancy...Itwasdownto~50'sinAmericainthelate1800's.Sonotverymuchastretchoftheimagination

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forlongagohavingincreasedprobabilityofbeingevenworse.Thatmakesense?
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[] fromkentucky 2points1dayago

Theaveragelifeexpectancywaslowbecauseofhighinfantmortalityrates.Thelifeexpectancyofanyonewhomadeitpastage
2wasmorethan60years.
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[] wolflarsen 3points1dayago

I'msorrythatreplywasforsomeoneelse.
Ishouldaddressyourpointtho.
Soyourcommentexposes2observationsthatlendtothepointIwasmaking:
1. Dosomepeoplelivetooldage?Sure.Dosomepeopledieasromansoldiersintheir20's?Sure.Dopeopledieas
infants?Sure.Butwhatdoestheculturedoaboutthat?Theytakeitintoconsiderationandmakeitapointto
emphasizegettingyourducksinarowearlierinlifethanlater.Thatisyoucan'tdependonlivingthatlongaswedo
today.Thisincludeswhentostartmakingbabies.Whichleadstothe#2
2. Thegameoflifeisaniteratedprocess...Yoursocietyrealizesppldieyounganddon'talwayscountonlivingalong
lifewithhighprobability?Thenwithinnextfewgenerationsyoumakesureyoumakemorebabies.Andmakebabies
sooner.Younoticefemaleshaveahardertimemakingbabieslaterinvlife?Startsooner.Babiesdieasinfants?Try
moreoftenandstartsooner.
Andbeforeyouknowitmuchoftheagriculturalworldreadilyconvergedonthesamealgorithm.
Sowhileyoumakeagoodpoint,itonlyillustratesthepointIwastryingtomake.
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[] fromkentucky 2points1dayago

Thatargumentdoesn'tholdupthoughbecauseveryyounggirls,especiallypreteens,actuallyhavemoremedical
difficultiesduringpregnancythanolderwomen.
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[] wolflarsen 1point1dayago

argument
I'msorrynooneisactually"arguing"iftheoldworldmarriedyoungandstartedprocreatingyoung.
That'showitwasandwe'retryingtorationalizehowtheyconvergedonthat.(Andfromthatcomeupwitha
generalruleofthumbtopredicthowsocietywouldadapttoitsenvironmentif,say,allthatchangedtowhatwe
havetoday.)
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[] fromkentucky 1point1dayago

I'msorrynooneisactually"arguing"iftheoldworldmarriedyoungandstartedprocreatingyoung.
That'showitwasandwe'retryingtorationalizehowtheyconvergedonthat.
Yes,Iknow.Iwasrebuttingyourrationalization.Mypointbeingthatyoungerisn'tactuallybetter,becauseof
theseverehealthrisksofsexandpregnancyforyounggirls.
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[] wolflarsen 2points1dayago

Ohforsure.Youdon'thavetotellmetwice,bro.
Fortunatelywedon'tlongerneedtoworryabouthowsoonwecanprocreate.Wehavetime.
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[] wolflarsen 1point1dayago

Andamuchbiggerpointhere:HERNAMEWASAISHA.
Shewasarealhumanbeing.Shehaddonethingsinherlifeandcommunity.Aswellasmanyoftheotherwomenback
then.Knowhername.
Andknowthatduetoherstationinlifebyandlargesheisarguablyoneofthemostinfluentialwomeninthe
historyofhumanity!
Thisissomethingthatpeoplealwaystrytodo:dehumanizedanddisregardher.It'sasifremovinganameandhistory
fromsaidpersonisameansforthearguertofillthecontextforhisorheraudiencewithonlycurrentaffairs.Givingherlife
storyandnamemakesthismoredifficultforanarguer.
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[] TotesMessenger 1points1dayago

I'mabot,bleep,bloop.Someonehaslinkedtothisthreadfromanotherplaceonreddit:
[/r/shitredditsays]"ImaginewhenAfricansstartedmakingkids?OrtheChinese.OrtheRomans.OrtheIndian
subcontinent.OrtheIncas/Mayanswhichever.Makesnogoodpracticalsensetohavesocietyasawholehaveaverageage
ofgirl'smarriagetobeanythingpastpuberty."[+28]

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Ifyoufollowanyoftheabovelinks,pleaserespecttherulesofredditanddon'tvoteintheotherthreads.(Info/Contact)
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[] wolflarsen 1point1dayago

Lol@SRS'sdissonance&completeavoidanceofasimpleandobviousobservationthatthrowsawrenchintotheirtalking
points...
...yetthey'rethesamepplthatdownplay30yoteacherssleepingwithjuniorhighschoolboys!
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[] AmericanNegro 3points1dayago

Ireallyonlyposton/r/islamand/r/shitredditsays(checkmyhistory),andI'veneverseenSRSdownplayanysortof
childrapeatall.Infact,theyhavebeenconsistentalliestoMuslimsandyouwillseethisnotonlyon/r/shitredditsays,
but/r/srsdiscussion.
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[] WistopherWalken 2points1dayago

Yesexactly.SRSisperhapsironicallyoneofthemosttolerantplacesonreddit.Neverwillyouseeislamophobia
there.Forthisthreadtohavebeenlinkedisreallytellingofhowmuchashitshowthecommentshavebecome.
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[] wolflarsen 1point1dayago

Ihaven'treadanyothercomments,justmine.lol.
Andmineistheonethatgotasentencequoted.Idon'tknowwhyit'snotmyopinionIthinkit'sjust
historicalfactanyway.
Whathappensnext?Likehowdoessrswork,anyway?
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[] WistopherWalken 1point1dayago

WellIthinkitwaslinkedbecauseseemsanattempttojustifychildbridesandpedophiliabothinthe
pastandthepresent.It'snotsomuchhistoricalfactasitisconjecture.Theassumptionthatolder
civilizationswouldhavenecessarilyprocreatedatanearlierageduetolifeexpectancyisflawedbecause
asmanypointout,thelowerlifeexpectancyisduetoinfantmortalityandthehigherlikelyhoodofdeath
duringchildhood.Ashumansreachedadolescenceandadulthood,theirlifeexpectancyrosedramatically.
OnethingthatIfeelyouhaven'tconsideredisthefactthatcomplicationsduringchildbirthbecome
muchmorelikelywhenthemotherisveryyoung.Barelypostpubescantgirlsarenotfullydeveloped.
Thelikelyhoodofdeathduringchildbirthisdramaticallyhigherforthemthanafullygrownwoman.
Consideringhowmuchmoreprevalentdeathduringchildbirthwasinthelastcomparedtonow,Ithink
it'sincorrecttoconcludethatwomenhadkidsatamuchearlierratethantheydonowortherecent
past.
AsforSRS.Theywillsimplymockandlaughatyourcomment.PeopleaccuseSRSofbrigadingbutthat
issillysincethatwouldmakeitappearthatredditisselfpolicingfoul,racist,orignorantcomments.
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[] wolflarsen 1point1dayago*

Thentheyareprojectingontomypointwhattheywouldliketobearguingabout.
I'veseenlotsofcommentsaboutlifeexpectancybutmysalientpointisthattherewasnoargument
agesagoyoudidhavetoworryaboutwhentostartprocreatingtomaintainyourculture.Thisis
justfact.
Myopinionontopofthatwasitsjustthecultureadaptingtoitsenvironment.That'swhythose
commentslendthemselvestomypoint:highermortalityacrosstheboardduetodeathwarand
famineshapedthoseculturestogetstartedsoonandoften.
Nowwiththatasidenoticehownooneissayingyoushouldgoaroundsleepingwithkids.You
wouldhavenoneedreasonto.Wehavetimeonourhandsnow.Unlessyoucollapseallsocietythere
wouldn'tbeaneedthinkaboutadapttosuchachangetolife.
Inotherwords,Ibelievetherewascognitivedissonanceonpartofthatsrscrossposterwhodidn't
likethefactthatatotallysecularpracticalpointwasmadethatexplainedwhythewholeworld
marriedyoungerandnowolder.
Itimpliesthatsomethingwillbetakenawayfromarguersouttherethatis,thisdoesn'tevenhave
todowithislamitself.Indeed,Islamjusthasgenericboundsonthisandsocietytriestostaywithin
thosebounds.Itfollowsthatthey'llbedifferentacrossworldhistory.
Idunnodoyouunderstandme?
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[] WistopherWalken 1point1dayago

Toadegree,suggestingthatyourcommentssupportpedophiliaisreadingintowhatyou've
writtenabit.However,thisisinessencewhatyouaresuggestingwasacceptableinthepast.In
myopinion,moralityisnotrelative.Thingslikeslaverywereneverokay,wesimplyacknowledge
thisnow.Similarly,childbridesandsexwithchildrenwasneverokay.

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Withrespect,yourargumentssuggestingthatfamineandhighmortalityratecausealower
procreationageareconjecture.Youhaven'tofferedanyevidencetosupportthis,noramIable
tofindanythingsupportingthistheory(believeme,Itried).Thisissimplyyoutryingtojustify
marriagetoachild.
Yousuggestcognitivedissonance.First,thisisnotmotivationtoposttoSRS.Second,the
postermerelywasnotconvincedbyyourconjecture.Indeed,toanyonewithoutavested
interestinsupportingMuhammad's(PBUH)marriagetoAisha,yourargumentisnotvery
persuasive.Multiplecommentershavepointedoutwhyyourargumentdoesn'tholdwater(e.g.
flawedassumptionsaboutlifeexpectancyandlackofanybenefittoconceivingataveryyoung
age).
You'reright,thisdoesnotnecessarilyhavetodowithIslam.Merely,thefactthatchildbrides
wereathinginthepastissomethingweknownowiswrong.Wehavedifferentstandards
today,butthatdoesnotmeanitwasevermorallywholesome.
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[] wolflarsen 1point7hoursago

Wehavedifferentstandardstoday
Exactly."Today".Andi'msayingwedidn'tgetthosebecauseofmorals.Wegotthem
becausemorepeoplecanaffordtohavethem.Justasimpleroccumsrazorwithhuman
history.
Asforallthecounterargumentstomypoint:well,Iwasn'targuingmuchatall.Those
werethefactsie,theworldhasbeenlikethisfortenthousandyears,andittookasea
changeformasspopulationsworldwidetoaffordmoreresourcestoliveadifferentlife.That
is,Idon'tneedtoconvinceanyone,cuzIdon'tneedto,that'showitwas.
Whichiswhytheantimusliminterlocutorscan'tstandadeconstructionofthiswholetopic.
Itthrowsawrenchintotheirweavedtapestry.Whichiswhytheywanttosilencemy
observations.Sotheycanavoidbeingconfrontedbyit.Sotheycanfallbacktosuperultra
megamorals(irony)rhetoric...
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[] wolfsktaag 1point21hoursago

yeah,no.theyvetakenmuslimsonastheirpetcausebecausemuslimsarepredominantlybrownskinned.
hereistheirtolerance.theirbigotrynetsthemalotofenemies,andtheirfondessofbrownmuslimsfurther
enforcestheviewsofthoseantiislam.withfriendslikethem,whoneedsenemies
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[] WistopherWalken 3points20hoursago

Hilariousbutno.You'relookingatsarcasticandfacetiouscomments.SRSisacirclejerksubreddit.There
isnothingtooveranalyze.Brownskinnedpeoplearenota"petcause"lol.Ihavebrownskinmyself
(Indian).
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[] wolfsktaag 1point19hoursago

etc.Mostofthosearefromtheirdiscussionsubs.Andeventhebigotryfoundintheir"we're
totallynotserious,justjokingaround!"subisn'texcusable,bytheirownstandards.Afterall,
they'retheoneswhoinsistajokeisneverjustajoke.
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[] WistopherWalken 1point19hoursago

Youhaveapoint,yes.Thereisacertainhypocrisyininsistingthatjokesarenojokeswhile
makingthesimilar"jokes"inilltaste.
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[] wolflarsen 1point1dayago

OhIdidn'tknowthat.Apologies.
IhadgottentheimpressionSRS'scontroversywasthatitwasanubersjwcirclejerksiteandifusmelllikeu
mighthurtsomeone'sfeelingstheycomment?
(Whichiswheretheteacherssleepingwithboyscommentcamefromnotnearlyenoughpitchforksasonewould
expect).
Goodtoknow.
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[] MoXria 28points1dayago

Justtoaddtothis,itisimportanttorememberhowtheenemiesoftheProphetMuhammad,Peaceandblessingsbeuponhim,did
everythingtheycouldtotakehimdown.Theyspreadrumoursabouthimcallinghimcrazy,theytriedtokillhimtimeandtime

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again,wagedwarsandtorturedhisfollowers.BUTnotasingleenemyisdocumentedtohavecommentedonhismarriagetoAisha
justgoestoshowhowitwasnotaproblembackthenandmarriagebetweenoldandyounghappenedandifitwasevenslightly
taboo,itwouldhavebeenusedagainsthim.
Now,I,personallywouldnevermarrysomeone10yearsyoungerletalonemuchmuchyoungerthanthat,butjudgingpeopleshould
takeintoaccounttheirintentionsandhowthatfitwiththeworldinwhichtheylived.
Igotintoanargumentwithsomeoneon/r/worldnews(surprisesurprise!/s)abouthowChurchillwasaracist.Itwasmadeclearto
me,thatspeakingopenlyillofotherraceswasnormalatthetime,andIgotreplieslike"butwhowasn'tracistatthetime?
seriously"andthat'shaveacenturyago,letalone1400yearsago.
PeaceandblessingsbeupontheprophetMuhammadandahlMuhammad,andmayGodbepleasedwiththe4imamsandthe
righteouscompanionswhotookonthemissionofspreadingtheonenessofGod,Subhanahuwata'ala,Ameen.
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[+] theunderhillaccount commentscorebelowthreshold(17children)

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[] ShinAkuma135 17points1dayago

Pedophiliaisdefinedashavingsexualattractiontowardsprepubescentpersons.1.Aisha(ra/um)alreadyhadpuberty(astaken
fromsahihhadithsothatisnullifiedonthataccountalone.2.Hispreviousmarriageswerealleitherolderwomenorwidowed
women.SoI'mnotsurewhypeoplesingleone,andignoretheothers?
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[] Emberstorm 4points1dayago

SoI'mnotsurewhypeoplesingleone,andignoretheothers?
selectionbias,whichrenderstheirconclusionsacademicallyinadmissible
checkm8
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[] Trogdor_T_Burninator 9points1dayago

"Yourhonour,IpresenttoyoualltheolderpeoplethatIhadsexualintercoursewith,provingbeyondareasonabledoubtthatit
isacceptableformetohavesexualintercoursewithagirloftheageofmenarch."
)
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[] ShinAkuma135 3points1dayago

Whatisthissupposedtomean?Areyouseriouslywantingtoapplyyourpersonallawstoanentirelydifferentcultureover
1400yearsago?
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[] rxbandit 9points1dayago

Tobefair,youaretryingtorationalisehismarriagetoAishaasmuchastheyaretryingtoargueagainstit.You're
bothapplyingpersonallawstothesituation,andasyouhavesaidthatshouldn'tbedoneconsideringthedifferent
timeandculture.
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[] ShinAkuma135 2points1dayago

Nottryingtorationalizeit.WhatI'msayingisthatthingsneedtobelookedatinproperhistoricaland
chronologicalcontextindividually.Otherwisewe'regoingtobespendingalotoftimepickingoutquitealotof
thingsfromoldertimesthatwouldn'tnecessarilyfitintoculturalnorms.
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[] rxbandit 6points1dayago

Ientirelyagree.It'sclearlynotacceptabletogowarringandtryingtobuildempirestoday,orowningslaves.
ButinMuhammed'stimethatwasjustthewayitwas.Ihavenoissuewiththatsolongaspeopleunderstand
thatnoteverythingMuhammeddidisokaytodotoday.
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[] An_Image_Of_Mohammed 1point1dayago

Youaretryingtodothesamethingwhenyouattempttofollowrulesfromabookwrittenduringthatsametime
period.
EDIT:Allreligionsdothis.
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[] Trogdor_T_Burninator 1point1dayago

Mepersonally?No.
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[] Trogdor_T_Burninator 1point1dayago

Imeanthenumberofolderwivesisirrelevant.Youseemconfusedwhypeoplearepickingthisoneinparticular,when

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youknowexactlywhy:shewastooyoung.Doyoureallyexpectpeopletogiveequalattentiontotheadults
Muhammadmarried?Ifheisthemoralpinnacleforalltime,thenmarryingayoungchildisthemoralthingtodofor
alltime.Ifmoralitychangesbasedoncontext(whichyoudisagreewithwhenitcomesfromsomeoneelse,butnot
yourself),thenwhywouldwefollowthemoralityofapedophile1400yearsago?
/u/rxbanditexplainedamoreoverarchingthemeIagreewith,whichIthinkgivesgoodcontexttohighlightthe
absurdityofmyjoke.
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[] ShinAkuma135 1point23hoursago

apedophile
exceptthathewasn't?atleastgobydefinition.howisoneconsideredapedophilewithoutevenqualifyingthe
definition?example:
Narrated`Aisha:
(thewifeoftheProphet)IhadseenmyparentsfollowingIslamsinceIattainedtheageofpuberty.Notaday
passedbuttheProphet()visitedus,bothinthemorningsandevenings.MyfatherAbuBakrthoughtof
buildingamosqueinthecourtyardofhishouseandhedidso.HeusedtoprayandrecitetheQur'aninit.The
paganwomenandtheirchildrenusedtostandbyhimandlookathimwithsurprise.AbuBakrwasaSofthearted
personandcouldnothelpweepingwhilerecitingtheQur'an.ThechiefsoftheQuraishpagansbecameafraidof
that(i.e.thattheirchildrenandwomenmightbeaffectedbytherecitationofQur'an).(Book8,Hadith124)
Shewaswithherparentsduringthattime.Needlesstosay,thatdisqualifiesbasedondefinitionalone.
bywho'slaws?itwasn'tuncommoninthatareaduringthattime.
Allowmetoaskyouthisthen.LetssaytheageofconsentofinGermanyis14andinCaliforniaits18.Sowhich
moralcompassdowefollowwheninoneinstanceapersonwouldbeacriminal,whileinanother,completely
legal?Anotherexample,therearequiteafewtribeseventodaythathavecustomsthatwouldbasicallybe
consideredtotallyoutofbounds.Butitisstillspecifictothespecifictribes.
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[] mooserstupid 3points18hoursago

Shemighthavehadherpuberty.Butshestillwasataagewheregirlsplaywithdollsandgotoschool.Being
marriedatthatageiscruel.Andtheprophetwasfucking50yearsoldatthetime.Whatdoesitsayabout
islamifitsprophetissexuallyattractedtoa9yearold?(itsdisgustingevenifshewas1314assomesources
claim.)
Andiftheculturalnormsofthetimeacceptedmarriagewithminors,isntislamsupposedtobetimelessand
theprophet'sconductaperfectexampleforallmankind?
Manyotherhistoricalfiguresmighthavehadsexwithminors,buttwowrongsdontmakearight.
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[] ShinAkuma135 1point18hoursago

andgotoschool.
Whatschool?In600AD?Inbedouinculture?
Manyotherhistoricalfiguresmighthavehadsexwithminors,buttwowrongsdontmakearight.
Wrongbywhatstandards?Oursortheirs?
Manyhistoricalfigureshadconcubines,jesters,etctoo.Ifsomeonehadthosetoday,itwouldprobablybe
considered'wrong'.However,itwouldnotbeconsidered'wrong'tothem.
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[] mooserstupid 2points16hoursago

Youaremissingthepointhere.Pedophiliaiswrong.Nowpeoplein600ADarabiamightnothave
thoughtthatbutpeople1400yearsagothoughttruealotofmadeupbs.(Likeburyingalivefemale
infants.(Accordingtoislamicsources.))
ManypeopleweremarriedatAishasageatthetime.Thatiget.Itwasnormalfortheculture.Iget
thattoo.ButtheproblemariseswhentheProphetofareligionwithhundredsandpotentially
thousandsoffollowerswhosactionsaresupposedtobetheepitomeofhumangoodnessandwhos
codeofconductissupposedtostandthetestoftime,engagesinit.
Nowtheprophetmighthavenotthoughtit'wrong',anditmayhavebeennormalinarabia,butin
themodernagepedophiliaisviewedasoneofthemostheinouscrimes.Nowiaskofyou:Isitright,
inthemodernera,tofollowsomeonewithobviouslyancientmoralvalues,600ADmindsetand
1400yearsolddistinctionbetweenrightandwrong?
MuslimsbelievethatGodhascompleteknowledgeandcontroloffutureevents,andthat
muhummadisthebelovedofGod.Sowouldntgodstophisbelovedfromdoingsomethingthat
wouldbeconsideredwrongbyfuturegenerations?Thiswouldseriouslyincreasethedifficultyand
hamperhisjobofspreadingAllah'smessagewhichissupposedtobeforallmankind.
Anyway,thankyouforreplyingintelligently.Iwasexpectinganendlessswarmoftrollsand
downvotes.
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[] Trogdor_T_Burninator 1point9hoursago

Good,youagreeweshouldnotbaseourmoralsonapedophilefrom1400yearsago.
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[] iluvucorgi 1point1dayago

Pedophiliaisapsychologicalcondition,onethatisdiagnosedbyclinicians.Itisnotmarryingsomeonewhoatthisparticular
timeandinthisparticularplacewouldbeconsiderunderage.
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[] sisko7 10points1dayago*

SoMuhammadisn'taperfecttimelessrolemodelforallofeternity,thusIslamisnotperfect?Howcome?DidAllahnotknowthat
havingsexwith9yearoldchildrenwillbefrowneduponbysocietiesinthefuture?Whydidn'tAllahsay"Oooooohyouwhobelieve!
TheseversesI'mdictatingareonlyperfecttoday,butwon'tbeperfectin1400years!".Whycan'tAllahseethefuture?Ormaybe
we'reallwrong,andIslamisright,anditshouldbenormaltohavesexwith9yearoldchildren?
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[] insha2 2points1dayago

Ohwowsobyyourlogicallahshouldhavemadehomosexualityokaybecausepeopleinthe21stcenturywouldthinkitis
morallyacceptablehowdoyouknowifafteranothercenturyunderagemarriagewon'tbecomemorallyacceptable?
Theprophetdidn'tmarryanunderagegirlbecauseaccordingtothetimeshewasn'tunderageshewasawomenreadyfor
marriageinthattimewomengrewupmentallyataveryyoungagejustlikeboysbecamemenassoonastheystartedworking
itcouldbeatage9orless
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[] JeromeAtWork 3points1dayago

sobyyourlogicallahshouldhavemadehomosexualityokay
Ithinkmostoftheworldisgettingbehindthisidea,becauseitisok.Iftwopeopleloveeachotherthatshouldbeallthat
matters.
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[] sisko7 2points1dayago*

Ohwowsobyyourlogicallahshouldhavemadehomosexualityokay
IfAllahdidn'twanthomosexuals,thenAllahwouldhavemadehomosexualityimpossible.LikeAllahmadeitimpossible
thatyoustopEarthfromorbitingthesun.InsteadAllahcreatedbiologicaldiversity,whichleadstoaminorityofmammals
andotheranimalsbecominghomosexual.Ifyouopposehomosexuality,thenyouopposenature.Ifyouopposenature,you
opposeAllah.Nomatterwhatsomepseudospiritualbooktellsyou.
Theprophetdidn'tmarryanunderagegirlbecauseaccordingtothetimeshewasn'tunderage
Whydoesa"prophet"needtomarryatall?Allahisnotenoughforhim,soheneeds10wives?
Seemshewasjustarandomhuman,whoabusedreligiontomakepeoplefightanddieforhisagenda.Nothingdivine
abouthislifestyle,nothingdivineabouthisactions.Infactallthisviolenceand"blablaAllahcursesthesepeopleandbla
blaAllahshoulddestroythosepeopleandblablablakuffararethevilestanimalsandwillgotohell"istheoppositeof
divinity.It'sjustprimitiveegoactionsandprimitiveegoblabla.
Thesesocalled"holy"booksclaimtospeakforAllah,butinrealitytheyonlyspeakfortheprimitiveegosofthepeoplewho
createdthosebooks.AndtheycreatedanimageofAllahintheirownimage,soAllahhasprimitivebronzeagehuman
characteristics,likeanger,lustforwarandviolence,desireto"maintain"womenandmarrychildrenwithouttheirconsent,
lustforsadisticpunishment,etc.
This"Allah"doestotallynotrepresentahyperintelligententitywhichcancreateuniverses.It'sbasicallyblasphemythat
thesebooksmakeAllahlooklikeapsychopathicsadisticgenocidalimbecile.Butthepurposeisclear.Thehumanswho
createdthesebookswanttocontrolpeople.Andtocontrolpeopletheyuseaveryprimitivetacticfearofapsychopathic
sadisticsupernaturalimbecile.
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[] insha2 1point1dayago

Ughjustsawtheninjaedityoumadeyouspeakwithoutnoknowledgenosourceyouarejustmakingstuffupthe
quranhaveyoureadit?clearlyandrepeatelysaysallahtakesnowifenorhasanychildandifhehadatastefor
violencewhywouldjannahbethemostpeacefulplaceandmuslim'sgoalisjannahandthisworldwhichisfullof
violenceisn'tourgoal
IrealizeiamwastingmyTimewithyou.youhavesonekindofblindhatetowardsislamandmuslimsyoucan'tbe
reasonedwithmayallahgiveyouhidayah
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[] Radicool21 2points1dayago

Also...wasn'tthewholepurposetolinktheQur'aiyshwithAbuBakr'sfamily?Asin,itwasapoliticalmarriage,itwasn'tlikethe

http://np.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/37nqgo/but_your_prophet_is_a_pedophile/

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Prophetjustdecided"Ifeellikemarryinga9yearold."Lovemarriagesdidn'texistitwasaunionofrepresentativesfromtwo
tribesoneofthemhappenedtobe9,whichwaswithintheacceptableagelimitofthetime.
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[] glues1 15points1dayago

Youareright,butnoonebyanystandardsbelievesthatElvisPresleyandCharlieChaplinweretheepitomeofmorality.Muhammad
howeverissupposedtobethegreatestMuslimtohaveeverwalkedthisearth.Tosomeonewhoisdescribedastheepitomeof
perfection,andsupposedtobethemodelformankindfromthanandthroughoutallgenerationsIwouldexpectbetter.
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[] shadowlightfox 6points1dayago

Thisisn'tabouthowmuchofamoralpersonyouareperse.ThatlinkwassimplyabouthowyouCANNOTusetoday'smoral
barometertojudgepeopleofthepast,nomatterwhatkindofpersontheywere.Elvis,LedZeppelin,andtheRollingStones
wereexcusedfortheiractionsbecauseofdifferenttimeperiodandculturalnormsoftheirperiod.It'sthatsimple.Soifwecan
usethisreasoningtonotcriticizethesegroupsofpeople,thenwhatabouttherestofthepeopleinthattimeperiodorprior?
Andwhatdoesn'tmakesenseisthatyoustartedyourpostoutbysayingtheyareright,butthenyoucontradictyourselfby
explaining"Well,maybeweSHOULDstillapplybecauseofsoandso,etc.".Thatmeansyouliedwhenyousaid"Youareright."
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[] ThisIsOwnage 16points1dayago

CanyoulookatourMotherAisha(ra)'slife,andfindmeanyevidenceofhersufferingfromanylongtermphysicalpaindueto
themarriage,orfindmeevidenceofhershowinganydetestetothemarriage.
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[] glues1 11points1dayago

Ican'tfindasingleshredofevidencethatshowsthatshesufferedinanyway.AllIhaveismoderndaystudiesfrom
thousandsofwelleducated"humangrowthanddevelopmentpsychologistsanddoctors"whoallunanimouslytellmethat
havingsexualrelationswithanineyearoldisnotarecipeforagoodmarriageorrelationship.Inlightofeverythingwe
knowtodayifyouarestillwillingtobelievethatsomehow1400yearsagohemadethissituationworkthangorightahead.
ButthiswasclearlynotthepointImadeinmyfirstcomment,butyouclearlyfelttheneedtododgemyoriginalpointand
attacksomethingelse.
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[] ThisIsOwnage 21points1dayago*

Wehaveactualevidencethattherelationshipworked,wehaveevidenceofAisha(ra)evenactingjealousyduetothe
Prophet'sloveforhisfirstwife(whowas15yearsolderthanhimbytheway).Weseemtonothaveanyevidenceof
therelationshipnotworking:somethingthatyou'dexpectifsuchathingwastrue.
Aisha(ra)didnotmissoutoneducation,Aisha(ra)managedtobecomeatopclassscholar,aleaderofanarmy,anda
incrediblyrespectedwomen.MayAllah(subhanawata'ala)havemercyonher.
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[] Last_Jedi 18points1dayago

Oncethe"greatestmanonearth"argumentcomesout,there'snothingofvaluethatcanbesaid.Toasecular
humanist,the"greatestmanonearth"issomeonewhoperfectlyembodiessecularhumanistideals.Obviouslythis
isnotsomethingtheProphet(SAW)did.
Muhammad(SAW)isthegreatestmanonearthtousMuslimsbecausehefollowedbestandpreachedbestthe
messageofAllah(SWT),notbecauseheunequivocallyliveduptoeveryone'smoraldefinitionofgreatness.
MuslimsseeAishathewoman,AishatheMotheroftheBelievers,AishatheLeader,AishatheScholar,Aishathe
Teacher.WevalueherfortheimmenseimportanceshebroughthavinggrownupsoclosetotheProphet(SAW).
Wevalueherforintellect,forherwisdom,forherpiety,andforhercharacter.
ThecriticsonlyseeAishathechildbride.Shehasbeenreducedtonothingmorethanaconvenientsexualobject,
allherotheraccomplishmentsthrownaway.DoyouthinktheyhaveanysympathyforAisha,doyouthinkthey
speakoutofconcernforherlife?Sheisjustapropagandatoolforthem.
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[] bblasnalus 2points1dayago*

EvidencesuggestsAishacommittedadulteryandthatshewasthecauseofagreatdealofproblemsamongthe
otherwives.
...wehaveevidenceofAisha(ra)evenactingjealousyduetotheProphet'sloveforhisfirstwife(whowas15
yearsolderthanhimbytheway)
Shewasbetrothedat6onlyafterKadijadied.Eveninthe7thcenturytherewasasignificantdifferencebetween
a25yearoldmanmarryinga40yearoldwomanthana4052yearoldmanconsummatingthemarriagewitha9
yearoldgirl.
edit:Mohammed'sage
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[] ThisIsOwnage 5points1dayago

http://np.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/37nqgo/but_your_prophet_is_a_pedophile/

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"ButyourProphetisapedophile":islam
EvidencesuggestsAishacommittedadultery
No.Notatall.That'sanabsolutelyfalseallegation.
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[] bblasnalus 1point1dayago

Whatisfalseabouttheallegation?AccordingtoMohammedgodAllahgaveaspecialrevelationjustto
clearherfromthecharge.
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[] ThisIsOwnage 3points1dayago*

TheysawAishawithoneothermanbecauseshewasLOST,andtheythoughtthisequaledadultery
whentheywerespreadinguselessrumors.It'sfunnythatyouacceptthisstoryeventhoughit'sa
rumor,butyoudon'tacceptanyofthemiraclesthatarestraightupmentionedinhadith.
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[] bblasnalus 1point1dayago

Shewasnotlostsheleftcampatnightinthedesertandwasgonelongenoughforthewar
partytoleavewithoutherinthemorning.Herexcuseoflosinganecklaceaftergoingpottyin
thedesertisalotlike'thedogatemyhomework'asanexcuseanddoesnotstandupto
rationalscrutiny.ThefactshearriveslaterwithaMoslemsoldiersuggestsmorethanrumor.
Mohammedclearlydeniestheabilitytoperformanymiracleexceptclaimingtherevelationsof
theQuran.SuchselfservingrevelationsclearedAishaofthechargeofadultery,allowed
Mohammedtomarryhisadoptedsonswife,get20%ofallwarbootytoincludeslaves,and
wageoffensivewars.
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[] ThisIsOwnage 4points1dayago*

Shewasnotlostsheleftcampatnightinthedesertandwasgonelongenoughforthe
warpartytoleavewithoutherinthemorning.Herexcuseoflosinganecklaceafter
goingpottyinthedesertisalotlike'thedogatemyhomework'asanexcuseanddoes
notstanduptorationalscrutiny.ThefactshearriveslaterwithaMoslemsoldier
suggestsmorethanrumor.
Aisha(ra)wasinthedesert,shethenwentout,shethenwaslost,andthenamancame
andrescuedher.Shewasclearlyinnocent.
Mohammedclearlydeniestheabilitytoperformanymiracleexceptclaimingthe
revelationsoftheQuran.
ActuallyAllah(subhanawata'ala)statesclearlyotherwiseintheQur'an,whattheProphet
(as)saysisthatMOSTOFHISFOLLOWERSWILLUSETHEQURANASAMIRACLETO
CONVERTSINCETHEPROPHETWILLNOTBEALIVETOGIVETHEMMIRACLESOTHER
THANTHEQURANAFTERTHAT!
SuchselfservingrevelationsclearedAishaofthechargeofadultery,allowedMohammed
tomarryhisadoptedsonswife,get20%ofallwarbootytoincludeslaves,andwage
offensivewars.
Yesofcourse/s,AndyettheProphet(as)alwaysgavehismoneytocharity,andhadto
evenprayforfood!OrhowabouttheProphetmakingitobligatoryforhimself(accordingto
you)topraytheNightPrayersomethingonlyhehadbeencommandedtodo.But
whatever.
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[] Drudeboy 9points1dayago

/u/ThisIsOwnagedidn'tdodgeyourquestion.Hewasjustpointingoutthatthemarriagedidn'thaveanydetrimental
effectsonAisha.
Youagreewiththeoriginalpost,thatwecan'treallyjudgepastfiguresbytoday'sbehavioralnorms,butthensaybut
weshouldreallyexpectbetterfromaProphet.
Butyouarefamiliarwithmodernhumangrowthanddevelopmentresearch?Couldyoupointustoanystudies?What
arethecontroversiesandconsensusesinthefield?
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[] glues1 2points1dayago

Bothofyouhavecompletelymissedmypoint.IsaidIwouldexpectbetterfromthegreatesthumanbeingtoever
lived,andwhoreceiveddivinerevelationfromthecreatoroftheuniverse.Foramanwhoyouallclaimtohave
livedwaybeyondhistimeandgeneration.MuslimssurejumpbackwhenAishaisbroughtintotheconversation
quicklyadmittingthatMuhammadwasclearlyactingappropriatelywithinhistimeandgeneration.Can'thaveit
bothways.

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[] Drudeboy 8points1dayago

Youchangedtheparametersofthediscussion,butyoudon'trealizeit.
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[] glues1 0points1dayago

Thishasbeenatrainwreck.Gooddiscussion,butIdon'tthinkeitherofuswillbeabletogetourpoints
acrosseffectively.Youhaveamarvelousday.
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[] Emberstorm 4points1dayago

Thishasbeenatrainwreck.
Andyouwereitsconductor)
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[] shadowlightfox 1points1dayago

OHSNAP!
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[] Drudeboy 2points1dayago

Youtoo,sweetpea.
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[] Emberstorm 10points1dayago

YouarearguingastrawmanthatOPneverproposedyouarearguingaboutmoralrelativism(certainthings
appropriateincertaincontexts)versustheperceivedmoralobjectivismofMuslims(certainthingsare
universallyrightorwrong)whenthepostOPmadeisaboutneitherofthosethings,butoverthechargeof
pedophilia.
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[] daamsie 2points1dayago

IthinkOP'scomparisonofElvistoMuhammadisactuallytheclassicdefinitionofastrawman.
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[] Oedium 2points1dayago

Butunlikesomeaspectsoftheprophet'sbehavior(egnumberofwives)hedidnothavespecial
dispensationtodifferfromothersbydivinemandate.Thereforwemustseeotherinstancesof50+y/o
menhavingsexwithnineyearoldgirls(withinthebondsofmarriage)asacceptable,ashasbeenthe
caseinMuslimcommunitiesthroughhistory.Thatputsoneinthedifficultpositionofsayingtherein
nothingwrongwithanactionthatmodernacademicpsychologyinformsusismeasurablydetrimental.
Isthemaximthatpedophillicmarriageisonlypermissiblewhenoneknowsthewifewillbeanoutlier
thatwon'tbepoorlyeffectedbyit?Ifso,whyistherenohadithtothiseffect?Howwouldthateven
work?
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[] Emberstorm 3points1dayago

IfyousaythemoralmaximistodowhatGodordersyouto,andthenyousaythat,inMuhammad's
casespecifically,themarriagetoAishawasordainedbyGod,thenthere'snoissueofbreaching
universalobjectivemoralitywiththeissueofitbeingdetrimentalinthecontemporaryage.
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[] spiderthunder 9points1dayago

Soyou'resayingthatthemarriagehadnoproofofanydetrimentaleffects,noneoftheharmassociatedwith
pedophiliatoday,butthere'sstillsomethingwrongwithit?Whatwaswrongwithitiftheybothlivedahappy
marriage?
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[] farqueue2 5points1dayago

you'regoingback1400yearsandcomparingthose9yearoldstothe9yearoldsoftoday.
Youcan'tevencompare20yearoldsto20yearoldsof20years.letalonegoingback1400years.
20yearsagoifyouweren'tmarriedwithkidsyou'dbeshunned.
today,ifyouaremarriedwithkidsat20,you'reshunned.
ittakesmosttilthey'reintheir30sbeforethey'reuniversallyconsideredoldandresponsibleenough.
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[] Emberstorm 4points1dayago

Defactoadulthoodisaculturalconstructmanyhominidsocietieshaveconsideredtheageofadulthoodtobeas
soonasonepassespuberty.

http://np.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/37nqgo/but_your_prophet_is_a_pedophile/

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[] wromit 2points1dayago

Oneaspectthat'snottalkedaboutmuchismarryingachildalmost50yearsyoungerknowingthatshe'llspendmostofher
lifeasawidow.
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[] ThisIsOwnage 3points1dayago*

Thethingisshewasfinewithit,becausethelastpersonyoumarrywillbethepersonyouwillbewithinParadise(if
Allahsubhanawata'alawills).
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[] Emberstorm 1point1dayago

she'llspendmostofherlifeasawidow.
andasoneofthedefactotopexecutivesofthelargestempireinthehistoryoftheearth
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[] Emberstorm 6points1dayago

Theissueincontentionhereispedophilia,notmoralrelativism.
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[] iluvucorgi 1point1dayago

Wellit'sprettyeasytodebunkthepedophiliaclaim,giventhatitisapsychologicalconditionratherthanthefactthat
someonemarriedsomeonewhotodayandinthiscountrywouldbeconsideredunderage.
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[] macspoofing 2points1dayago

No.Mostpeopleareperfectlycapableofcontextualizinghistoricalfigures.ThomasJeffersonownedslaves,buthewasa
greatmaninotherrespects,andwecanseparatethosetwoandwecanbalancehisaccomplishmentsandfailingsand
providearealviewoftheman.Wecangoandsaysomethinglike"Jeffersonwasagreatthinkerbuthewaswrongabout
slavery.Itwaswrongofhimtoownslaves."ThisisthesamewithElvis,Chaplinandwhateverotherhistoricalfigureyou
wanttobringup.
TheproblemwithMuhammadisthatyou'resupposedtofollowhisexampleandyoucan'tcriticizehim,atall.You're
supposedtoemulatehim.NobodysaysemulateasbestyoucanJefferson'scharacter.
Anotherreasonwhypeoplebringthisupisbecauseit'sembarrassing.Everybodyunderstandthatthereisnosituationin
whichit'sOKtomarrya6yearoldandconsummatethatmarriagewhensheis9.Buthe'syourprophet,soyoucan'teven
saysomethingthatobvious...itwaswrongforhimtodothat.Yeswe'rejudginghimbythestandardsoftoday'smorality,
butwelivetoday,sowehavethatbenefit.
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[] Cackerot 15points1dayago

TheproblemwithMuhammadisthatyou'resupposedtofollowhisexampleandyoucan'tcriticizehim,atall.
You'resupposedtoemulatehim.NobodysaysemulateasbestyoucanJefferson'scharacter.
TheprophethimselfsaidthatdoasIsay,notasIdo.Theinterpretationofthehadith,isnottoblunderwiththe
givingsofSunnah(whichareactionsthattheprophetDID)versuswhatheinstructedhiscompanionstodo.Rather,
thishadithparticularpointsoutthatnoMuslimcaneverfollowthefootstepsoftheprophetperfectly,notevenhis
closestcompanions.
YourarguingthatbecauseweholdMuhammed(SWS)astheperfectmoralexample,wewouldemulatehisactions
today,regardlessoftoday'smoralitybeingdifferentornot.Andthat'sWRONG.Welookathisexampleanddraw
inferencestoguideourownlives.
Forexample,let'stakeanordinarydayoutofhislifeinthemonthofRamadan.Hewouldfeedthehungry,pray5x,
constantlybeindua,andwouldstayupentirenightsaskingforforgiveness.InTODAYSworld,noonecanemulate
theseactionsbutinsteadwelookathisperfectexampleandguideourownlivesfromit.Wemakesuretopray5xa
day,beaskingforforgivessorfeedingthehungry,etc.butwecan'tbedoingitlikehewasaswehaveother
obligationsetc.
Sameexactthinghere.Nooneinthisentiresubthinksthattheywanttomarrya9yearoldjustbecausetheprophet
didandtheywanttoemulatehisactions.Rather,welookatthemarriageofAisha(RA)andlookathowithappended,
howhetreatedher,howshelived,etc.andthat'swhatwebasemostofourprivateshariaon(asmostoftheprivate
sunnahandhadithoftheprophetwaslargelytransmittedbyher).
Sowhileweholdhimastheperfectmoralguide,wealllookatourcontextsandadjustourrulingsandinterpretations
basedonit.
Also,howwoulditbeembarrassingforustotalkaboutthis?It'safactthathappenedandIdon'tseeanyoneshying
awayfromit.
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[] AndTheEgyptianSmiled 2points1dayago

Greatpost.

http://np.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/37nqgo/but_your_prophet_is_a_pedophile/

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[deleted]
[] ThisIsOwnage 10points1dayago

That'snotfollowingtheSunnah,followingtheSunnahrequiresyoutomakesurethatthewomenyoumarry
doesnotsufferfromanylongtermphysicalharm,doesnotloseoutoneducationandjobprospects,anddoes
notsufferfromthemarriagenegatively.
Ifwelearnttomorrowthatlambwastoxicduetoapandemicyou'dthinkthattheIslamicWorldcould
prohibiteatingLamb,butaccordingtocriticstheycan'tbecausetheProphet(as)atelamb,thoughwecan
sinceithasgainedtoxinsandisnotrequiredthesameisthecaseforthemarriageofAisha(ra),ithas
gainedtoxinsitcanaffectpeoplebadly,anditcanbeprohibited.
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[] Cackerot 2points1dayago

youmissedthisinyourfirstbulletpointbutyoushouldalsowritethatshehastoagreewithit,while
understandingthefullconsequencesofmarriageotherwisethemarriagewouldbevoidinfrontofaQadi
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[] Emberstorm 2points1dayago

"common"
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[] Emberstorm 3points1dayago

You'resupposedtoemulatehim.
No,we'renotsupposedtoliterallyemulateeverythingtheprophet
morallessons(ex.ridingcamels).

didasnoteverythinghedidhadanyintrinsic

FromwhatIpostedabove:
TheissueisthatpeoplesaythatMuslimsbelievetheprophet tobethepinnacleofmorality,whichistrue,and
thereforeallofhisactionscarryobjective,universalmoralweightforus,regardlessofcontext.
Thispartisnottruesimplybecausetheprophet

didsomethingdoesnotmeanithasanyintrinsicallymoral

propertiesfromwhichamaximofmoralitycanbederivednecessarily.Theprophet rodecamelsandworetunics
yetneitherridingcamels,nortunics,areregardedbyMuslimsasthingsthatpositanymoraldata.Thesalient
pointisthatanactiononlyhasmoraldataifitisassignedanybywhichevermoralsystemonesubscribesto(such
aspresentistswiththeirretroactiveapplicationsoftheirrelativisticmoralityorMuslimswiththeirIslamicmorality).
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[] moonjellyfish 5points1dayago

Yeswe'rejudginghimbythestandardsoftoday'smorality,butwelivetoday,sowehavethatbenefit.
Thatwouldbeapresentismfallacy.
Ithinkpeoplemisunderstandwhat"emulatingtheProphet"means.Wedon'tfastorpraytotheextenthedid.Nordo
weconductmarriagethesameway.
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[] macspoofing 0points1dayago

Thatwouldbeapresentismfallacy.
DidyoureadtheprevioustwoparagraphsIwrote?
Nordoweconductmarriagethesameway.
Sayswho,andwhynot?
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[] moonjellyfish 2points1dayago

DidyoureadtheprevioustwoparagraphsIwrote?
Idid.Tosayanyhistoricalfiguredidsomethingwrong,isapresentismfallacywhichiswhatyoualsodid
whenyousaidJeffersonwaswrongforowningslaves.
Sayswho,andwhynot?
BecauseweemulatehisSunnah,whichdoesn'tcomposeofminutiaesuchasproperageofmarriage
(althoughtherearerelatedteachingswithintheSunnahonthistopic).
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[] jeffanie96 1point1dayago

TheproblemwithMuhammadisthatyou'resupposedtofollowhisexample

http://np.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/37nqgo/but_your_prophet_is_a_pedophile/

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No,notforeverything.Healsoworesandalstobusinessmeetingsandownedslaves,butnooneisarguingweshould
stilldothat.Infact,theMuslimworldoutlawedslavery,despitetheProphet(saw)himselfdoingit.Whatwecan
gatherfromthisisthatweshouldmarrypeopleattheagethatissociallyacceptableforthesocietywelivein.Atthe
time,itwas9.Now,it'solder.TheShariawasdesignedtobeflexible.
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[] macspoofing 2points1dayago

Whatwecangatherfromthisisthatweshouldmarrypeopleattheagethatissociallyacceptableforthe
societywelivein.
That'saninterestingperspective,butsurelyyourealizethat'syourinterpretation.Thatpieceofinformationisnot
there.Youaddedthatrule(whichIlikebytheway).
ButOK,theotherproblemisthatthoughsomethingwassociallyacceptableatsomepointdoesn'tmakeitright.
Slaverywassociallyacceptableatonepoint,butevenifwekeephistoricalcontext,wearestillfreetosayit's
wrong.Eventhoughweknowthatsexwithanineyearoldiswrong,you,asafollowerofMuhammad,arenotfree
tosaythatitwaswrong.
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[] ugottoknowme2 0points1dayago

Ithinktheissuethatpeoplehavewithreligiousfigures,beitJesusorMohammed,isthattheyaresupposetohavea
directlinktogod,andgodissupposetobeinfallible,yetwhenwelookbackweseethemdoingthingsthatwenow
acceptaswrongorimmoral,Whydidtheydothatiftheyhadadirectlinetosomeonewhoshouldknowevenback
thenthatiswaswrong?
whereaspeoplelikeElvis,Chaplindon'tclaimtobesoleguardiansofwhatismoralandwhatisn't.
TLDR:Whensomeoneclaimstobeaninfalliblebeaconofmorality,butmakesthesamemistakesthatallthenormal
humansmadeitdrawscriticism.
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[] macspoofing 0points1dayago

Younailedit.That'sexactlyit.
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[] moonjellyfish 2points1dayago

andsupposedtobethemodelformankindfromthanandthroughoutallgenerationsIwouldexpectbetter.
Thisimpliesitwasabadthingforhimtodo,whichismissingthepointoftheOP.
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[] TiredPaedo 5points1dayago

Exactly.
IfaGodand,byextension,hisprophetaresupposedtobebetterthanpeopleoftheagethentheirmoralityshouldbeaswell.
IfaGodcanonlybetrustedtomirrortheethicsofthetimethenwhatgoodaretheyasamoralguide?
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[] Emberstorm 2points1dayago

IfaGodand,byextension,hisprophetaresupposedtobebetterthanpeopleoftheagethentheirmoralityshouldbe
aswell.
Anditwas:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoners_of_war_in_Islam
InpursuanceofMahometscommands,thecitizensofMedna,andsuchoftheRefugeesaspossessedhouses,received
theprisoners,andtreatedthemwithmuchconsideration.BlessingsbeonthemenofMedina!saidoneofthese
prisonersinlaterdaystheymadeusride,whiletheythemselveswalked:theygaveuswheatenbreadtoeatwhen
therewaslittleofit,contentingthemselveswithdates.[9]
WilliamMuir,TheLifeofMahomet
ButtheactualissuewithyourpostisthatitcommitsafallacyinassumingthatIslamordainsthateverysingleliteral
actionoftheprophet

positedmoraldata.Nottrue:

http://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/37nqgo/but_your_prophet_is_a_pedophile/crofu5u
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[] iluvucorgi 0points1dayago

Iwondercanyouprovidemewithanageofconsentthatyouwouldacceptforalltimesandallplacesasacceptable?
I'massumingthatisthemethodyouchooseforadjudicatingthis,despiteit'sobviousflaws.
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[] Nextfoot 7points1dayago

http://np.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/37nqgo/but_your_prophet_is_a_pedophile/

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IwouldretitlethethreadasNSFWjustbecauseitcontainssomevulgarlanguageandkeepinmindchildrenroamthissubReddit
tolearnmoreaboutIslam.
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[] seniormunchies 23points1dayago

Anychildonreddithasseenalotmorethanacouplefbombs
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[] shaziru 4points1dayago

Haha,verytrue.
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[] SyncMaster710n 1point1dayago

IntheUSsex'edistaughtin6thgradeusually.6thgradestudentsareusually1112yearsold.Sometimesitstaughtevenin
5thgrade.
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[] hashtagreckt 4points1dayago

Yeahbecausethere'snoevidencepointingtoanotheragewhatsoever.
Ohwait,yeah,thereis.
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[] Cackerot 10points1dayago

thereis,butitissubstantiallymuchweakerthantheevidenceofthenineyears.Almostnoreputablescholarwouldagreethat
heragewascloseto15(andI'veheardinsomeinstancesitbeupat19).
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[] insha2 1point1dayago

Thereismoreevidenceshewasabove15http://www.islamicity.com/articles/articles.asp?ref=ic08113718
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[] UnhipGlint 4points1dayago

Haha,thislineofthinking,again?"Guys!Whatpeopledidhundredsofyearsagoisagreatlitmustestforacceptablebehavior
today!"
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[] weak_game 5points1dayago

Ifhewastheperfectmanforalltime,thenwhycan'tIfollowhisexample?
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[] ThisIsOwnage 22points1dayago

Youcan,justmakesurethatthewomenyoumarrydoesnotsufferfromanylongtermphysicalharm,doesnotloseouton
educationandjobprospects,anddoesnotsufferfromthemarriagenegatively.
Ifyouthinkageistheonlyfactorthenyouarenotlookingatthisintherightway.
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[] Kami7 5points1dayago*

Unlessyouthinkaboutmarryingwomen2030+olderthenyouyoucantinvoketheAisha(as)marriageexampletobe
followed.EventhenIwouldn'tconsideritok,giventhatchildrenoftodayareshelteredandimmaturecomparedtochildrenof
evenjusttheearly1920century.Wefindchildrenofthepastworkingalongsidetheirparents.Goingonbusinesstrips
handlingfather'sbusinessesatearlierages.Todaywehavechildlaborlaws.Theinnocenceofchildrenisprotecteduntilalot
laterintoday'sage,bylyingtothemaboutSantaandthetoothfairy.Childreninthapastwouldtravelmilestogetwater
alone,andcarryheavycontainersbacktohome.Todayparentsarechargedwithneglectifthey'renonteenagechildisnot
supervisedbyaparentcloseby.
Environmentandpsychologyplaysaroleinachild'smaturity.Backinthedaytheseyoungadultswouldbehelpingatwar
gettingwatertothedyingsoldiers,severedlimbsandheadsallaroundthem.Todayifa20yearoldchildendsupwitnessing
gore,wehavetherapyforthem.Overalltheshelteringandkeepingkidsawayfromresponsibility,alongwithkeepingtheir
innocenceprolongedmakeschildren,children.Wehavetheluxurytodothat,sowedon'tfindanyharmtoit,butnonmodern
societiesinthepasthadtodealwithharsherrealitiessokidsmaturedintoyoungadultsearlierthentoday'schildren.
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[] Cackerot 4points1dayago

ifyouwanttofollowhisexamplethatperfectly,you'llhavetofirstmarryawomenwhois15yearsolderandonethewealthiest
inthecountrybutalsomakesurethatsheproposestoyouinsteadofyouproposingtoher.
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[] macspoofing 3points1dayago

Andthenit'sok?
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http://np.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/37nqgo/but_your_prophet_is_a_pedophile/

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[] Cackerot 4points1dayago

no,thenyou'dhavetomarry11otherwomen,whichwouldbeIslamicallyimpossiblebecauseyoucanonlyhaveat
most5wives(divorcedormarried).
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[] grimreaperx2 2points1dayago*

Wowyoujustdon'tknowwhatyouaretalkingabout.
Edit:InIslamyoucanhaveamaxof4.Whendiditbecome5?
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[] Cackerot 3points1dayago

no,i'mjustexplainingtotheposterwhowantedtofollowtheprophet'sexampleofwhathe'dhavetodo.But
Icanunderstandyoubeingconfusedifyoudon'tknowaboutMuslimsandwhatweactuallybelieve.
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[] Emberstorm 4points1dayago

youactuallymadeagoodpointlol
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[] Cackerot 3points1dayago

it'scrazythatsomepeoplethinkwewanttodoeveryactionoftheprophetashedidsotheybring
theworstexampletheycanfindintheirmind,buttheydon'tactuallyrealizeallthelittleintricacies
andnuancesofsunnahandhadithandwhatmarriageinIslamisreallyabout.Thiswholetopicis
filledwithbigotsfromr/atheismwhohaveabsolutelynoclueastohowbaselesstheirclaimsare
becausethey'rejustplayingonthesameoldnarrativeofhurrdurr"shewasyoungsoobviously
wrong"
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[] Emberstorm 3points1dayago

Whenyoudeconstructtheissueofmorality,andIwillprobablymakeapostaboutthis
someday,there'snoissue.
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[] Aviator 1point1dayago

Wheredidyougetthatfrom
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[] Cackerot 6points1dayago

learnedaboutitgrowingup.Here'salinkifyourinterested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad%27s_wives
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[] autowikibot 1point1dayago

Muhammad'swives:
Muhammad'swiveswerethetwelvewomenmarriedtotheIslamicprophetMuhammad.Muslims
refertothemas"MothersoftheBelievers"(Arabic:UmmahtulMuminn).Muslimsusetheterm
prominentlybeforeorafterreferringtothemasasignofrespect.Thetermisderivedfrom
Quran33:6:
TheProphetisclosertothebelieversthantheirselves,andhiswivesare(as)theirmothers.
Muhammad'slifeistraditionallydelineatedastwoepochs:prehijra(emigration)inMecca,acityin
westernArabia,fromtheyear570to622,andposthijrainMedina,from622untilhisdeathin632.
AllbuttwoofhismarriageswerecontractedaftertheHijra(migrationtoMedina).
Imagei
Interesting:AtTahrim|Sahabah |Muhammad |Aisha
Parentcommentercan toggleNSFWordelete.Willalsodeleteon commentscoreof1orless.|FAQs|Mods|Magic
Words

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[] insha2 1point1dayago*

Hemarried11wivesbeforethelawwaspassedthatonly4werepermissiblejustlikeheprayedfacingJerusalem
beforetherevelationcamemakingthekabbainmakkatheqiblahislamiclawwasrevealedgraduallynotatonce
sothepeoplecouldadjustandallahknowsbest
Edit:irealizedyouweredefendinghimearlierbutthiscommentsoundedlikeyouweresayingitwaswrongfor
himtohave11wivesiamsorryifthatwasn'tyourintent
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http://np.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/37nqgo/but_your_prophet_is_a_pedophile/

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[] captak 3points1dayago

I'vepostedthislinkseveraltimesbutitneedstobepostedevenmoretogetthepointacross.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/sep/17/muhammadaishatruthAishawasn'tevenachildbyallthe
conclusionsofactualhistoricalanalysis.Herageiswidelydebated.
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[] Felinomancy 2points1dayago

Remindmeagainwhywearefussingaboutthis?
Yes,byourstandardstodaymarryinga9yearoldiswrong.Butgiventhecircumstancesandsocioeconomicconditions1400
yearsago,it'sconsideredtobepartofthenorm.
Sowhyarewejudgingsomeonemorethanamilleniaagowiththeethicalstandardscreatedtoday?Youmayaswellgofurtherback
andcastigateeverysingleoneofyourancestorsforalltheslavedealing,rapesandpossiblegenocidestheymayhavedone.
"Buthe'stheultimatearbiterofmorality!Heshouldknowbetter!".Iagree.Hedoknowbetterbasedonthesocialconditions
then.Idon'tknowwhyyouexpectanyonetopeerthousandsofyearsintothefutureandadjusttheirbehaviourthentosuitour
tastesnow.
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[] CountessMiralax 3points1dayago

Unfortunately,hismarriagehasbeenusedasajustificationforcontemporarymarriagesof9yearoldgirls.Thegovernmentin
Yemenhasrefusedtopassanysortoflegislationestablishingaminimummarriageageforgirls.
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[] Felinomancy 2points1dayago

Thenthat'sjustpeoplebeingdicks.IcanusetheQur'antojustifyslaveryormurder,thatdoesn'tmeantheholybookis
evilIam.
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[] illest_g 2points1dayago

Butgiventhecircumstancesandsocioeconomicconditions1400yearsago
HowcomeMohammedwascaughtintheculture,society,andsocialconditionsof7thcenturyArabia?Howcomecomehe
couldn'ttranscendit,gobeyondit?Mohammedissupposedtobearolemodelforallofhumanity,foralltimes.Howcomehe
couldn'tthinkaheadofhistime?
it'sconsideredtobepartofthenorm.
YouwouldthinkthataProphetofAllahwouldtranscendallthenormsofthesociety.ButitlookslikeMohammedwaspartof
thenorm.
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[] Felinomancy 3points1dayago

Howcomecomehecouldn'ttranscendit,gobeyondit?
Hedidgobeyondit.Forexample,heforbidsthemurderofchildren(usuallygirls)duetopovertythatisrifeinthatera.
Ifyouask"whydidn'thegobeyondthat,anddothingsliketheydid1400yearsinthefuture",letmeaskyouthis:why
arewesettlingat"1400years"?Whatifthevaluesof2015and3015aredirectoppositesofeachother?Ifhewereto
"transcendtime",whichyear'svaluesshouldhetakeup?
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[] doffensmush 0points1dayago

IactuallyneverbelievedthatMohamed(peacebeuponhim)sleptwithanunderagegirltoourstandardsIsawitasapolitical
marriage
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[] lumloon 1point1dayago

IfI'mcorrect,thebigargumentisbetweenthepeoplewhobelievetheSunnahshouldbefollowed100%andpeoplewhousethe
"thatwasinhistime"argumentsopeopledon'tdowhatMohammeddidthousandsofyearsago.
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[] sourbrew 1point1dayago

ITT:Lotsofpeopledefendpedophilia.
IcheckinonthissubredditfromtimetotimebecauseIamcurioushowyouguysarecoveringIslamictopicsinthenews,inthis
casethecanadianboyssoccerteamthatrefusedtoplaywithgirlslikesexistlittleasshats.
ArollingdefenseofpedophiliawasnotwhatIwasexpectingevenfromthissubreddit.
Religionmakesmeprofoundlysadforhumanitysometimes.
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[] username192873 0points1dayago

samethingwithatheiststhatlovetaking3000yearoldJewsishlawsinthebibleoutofcontext.Itslike,noImnotgoingtokillan

http://np.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/37nqgo/but_your_prophet_is_a_pedophile/

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animaltoofferapeaceofferingin2015..thestubbornignorance
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[] envican 1point1dayago

andyetChristiansthenuseaverseinthesamebooktojustifythingstheybelieve.
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[] username192873 1point1dayago

what?
IbelieveeverythingintheBible,butIdon'tfollow3000yearoldJewishlawtotheletter,thatstakingtheoldtestament
outofcontext,whichtheDevildidhimselfwhentemptingJesusinthewilderness
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[] TotesMessenger 1point1dayago

I'mabot,bleep,bloop.Someonehaslinkedtothisthreadfromanotherplaceonreddit:
[/r/atheism]Islam:DefendingChildRapeEvenHarderthanCatholics
Ifyoufollowanyoftheabovelinks,pleaserespecttherulesofredditanddon'tvoteintheotherthreads.(Info/Contact)
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[] Cackerot 2points1dayago

Atheism:Cluelessaboutwhatactualfactssayandcontinuetheirnormalcirclejerkasalways.Classic
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[] doesntitmatter 9points1dayago

Iwouldn'tpointfingersattheirideologyandmakefunofthem.Thiswon'topendiscussionandwillonlyreinforcedivision
amongstus(MuslimandnonMuslim).Iamhappythisthreadgotcrosspostedtor/atheism.I'msuresomeonefromthat
subredditwillbenefitfromtheknowledgeanddiscussioninthisthread.
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[] MontyBoosh 3points1dayago*

Nicetoseeacommentlikethis.Iwassenthereby/r/atheismand,whilstI'msuretheoverwhelmingmajorityof
commentsovertherewillbenegative,thereisthechancethatthiswillencouragesomeactualdiscussion,provided
everyoneremainsrespectfulandopenminded.Moralityisn'tsomethingthat'seasytodiscussit'ssomethingwhichis
sodeeplyingrainedinourculturalnormsthatweoftenfinditimpossibletoconsiderthatdifferentviewpointsexist
andhaveexistedthroughouthistory.Unlikemanyoftheathiestson/r/atheism,Iwasbornintoanonreligiousfamily
andinafierclysecularcommunity,soIhaveneverhadtowrestlewithmanyofthemoralquestionsthattheex
religioushave.Inaway,Iwouldarguethatthismakesmoralitymoreofatouchysubjectthanitneedstobe.
Intermsoftheactualsubjectofthethread,I'msplit.OntheonehandIdon'tbelievethatanobjective'moraltruth'
exists,andIcan'treallyfaultpeoplefordoingsomethingwhichwasconsideredculturallyacceptableatthetimeand
withintheirculture.AsIalreadymentioned,it'sverydifficulttoseperateculturalbiasfromourviewofmorality,and,
unlesswe'regivenreasontodoso,peopleveryrarelyquestionwhatthey'vebeentaughtalltheirlives.Furthermore,
usingthe"yourprophetisapaedophile"argumentisoftenahugelogicalfallacyanyway,calledargumentumad
hominem(essentially,theideathatattackingaperson'scharacterdoesnotautomaticallyinvalidatewhattheysay).
Ontheotherhand,Iwouldarguethat,ifpartsofwhatareligionhashistoricallytaughtarenowseenasmorallywrong
orhavebeeninvalidatedbyscience,itisonlylogicalthatthesamecriticaleyeshouldbeturnedtoalloftheir
teachings.Perhapstherewasatimewhenpeopledidn'trespecttherightsofchildren,orunderstandthenegative
impactthatsexualabusecouldhaveonthempsychologically,butwenowliveinanagewhereithasbeenscientifically
proventimeandtimeagainthattherearelegitimatereasonsastowhypaedophilia(or,morespecificallysexwith
thosewhoarenotemotionallyandphysicallymatureenoughtogivemeaningfulconsent)shouldbeillegal.Thissame
argumentcanusedinmanytopics(homosexualityandevolutionareprobablythemostpopular).
I'mnotahistorianoratheologian,soIdon'tknowwhetherornotMuhammedactuallydidmarryachild,orifhethen
procededtorapeher.IalsocannotcommentonhowemotionallymatureAishawasatthetime,andwhetherornot
shecouldhavereasonablyconsentedtomarry/havesexwithsomeoneolderandmoreemotionallymaturethanher.
FromwhatIunderstandthisisawidelydebatedtopic,andIimagineaskingthefolksoverat/r/askhistorianswould
probablygetusnowhereanytimesoonifevenMuslimscholarsstillhaven'tmanagedtoreachaconsensus.
AllIhopeisthatthepeopleonthisthreadarguingaboutherageortryingtoreconcilethe'morallydubious'partsof
theteachingsoftheirreligionsusingthis'culturalnorms'argumentaren'tjusttryingtofindaloopholetojustifynot
questioningtheirownreligiousbeliefs.
Sorryforthewalloftext.
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[] doesntitmatter 2points1dayago

Don'tbesorry.Ishouldbethankingyouforopeningupdiscussion.Iwillreplylatertoday/tomorrow.Myintention
istomakeafewpointswhenimnotbusy
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[] cacky_bird_legs 1point1dayago

Doyouhaveanyactualresponsestowhatthey'resaying?Forexample,

http://np.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/37nqgo/but_your_prophet_is_a_pedophile/

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Ifindthehistoricalcontextdefenseacceptablebutithasconsequences.Ifyourholybookneedstobeevaluatedin
historicalcontextthanclearlyitdoesnotcontainuniversaltruthsforalltime,itisnotdivinlyinspiredandyoudon'tget
toalsoclaimthatitis.WhatmakesitevenworseforIslamisthatsomeofthesamepeoplethengoandarguefor
applyingancientarchaiclaws,whichallowchildbrides,inthepresent.
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[] ThisIsOwnage 1point1dayago

Thisisnotwhatwe'rearguing,lookatmypostsinthisthread.
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[] cacky_bird_legs 1point1dayago

Irealizethishasn'tbeendiscussedyet,whichiswhyIrequestedthatsuchadiscussionbestarted.
IhavecometorealizethatyourarelysayanythinginsightfulorrelevantsoIwouldprefertoreadotherpeople's
commentshere.
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[] ThisIsOwnage 1point1dayago

Alrightmate!
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[] An_Image_Of_Mohammed 0points1dayago

Thisisnotreallyagooddefensebecausebysayingwehaddifferentmorals,adifferent"reality"beforewehadspaceflightwould
alsoputallreligiouspreceptsonprecariousgrounds.
Wehaveknowledgetodaythattheysimplydidn'thavemillenniaago.Theymadestuffuporbaseditcompletelyonobservationand
reasoning.
Again,thisisaridiculouswayofreasoning.
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[] FreddyFeelgood 2points1dayago

There'saminordifference.NobodypraystoCharlieChaplinorJimmyPage.
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[] dwarfythegnome 4points1dayago

peopledon'tpraytoMuhhamad(pbuh),thepraytoAllah.
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[] FreddyFeelgood 1point1dayago

Sowhat'stherequired"pbuh"about?
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[] ThisIsOwnage 2points1dayago

PbuhmeanspeaceandblessingsOFALLAHbeuponhim,whenyousayrestinpeaceyouarenotworshipingthe
personyousayrestinpeaceto.
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[] dwarfythegnome 1point1dayago

Peacebeuponhim(orpbuhforshort)isaphrasesaidwhenrefereingtoanyoftheprophetsMuhammad,Moses,
Jesus(peacebeuponthem).
it'sasignofrespectforthosethatGodhassetasideashisprophetssowewishGodtograntthempeaceintheirlife
thisoneorthenext.
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[] FreddyFeelgood 1point1dayago

DoyouusethesamerespecttoJimmyPage?
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[] dwarfythegnome 1point1dayago

NobecauseaccordingtoIslamatleastasIunderstanditheisnotconsideredaprophetsentbyGod,
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[] FreddyFeelgood 1point1dayago

And,that'smypoint.Soit'sabitlessrelevantastowhetherJimmyPageisapedophileastowhetheror
nottheProphetofGodis.Seemypoint?
I'mnotsayinghewasorwasn't,I'msayingit'ssillysaying"YeahbutCharlieChaplin".Peopledon'tstart
prayersbyinvokingChaplin'sname.
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5/30/2015

"ButyourProphetisapedophile":islam

[] Sabzz 1points1dayago

Soohowdoesitfeeltocompletelyselloutyourhumanitytoblindlydefendandsupporta7thcenturypedophile?ItseemsAllahhas
zeroemphathyoranythingcomparabletomodernhumanvalues..Allahdeservesnorespectorpraise...Yourgodisoneofthemost
vilecharactersinalloffiction!Itsstillsoamusingwatchingyoulittlekidsstuggleandreasonyourwayoutofanyresponsibilty.
hahahathatsIslamforyou.
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