JAMS:JIOLLJIT;;8H5"

EIGHTEENTH ruDICIAL DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE

TRANSCRIPT: JAMES HOLMES INTERVIEW

The following is a transcript of an interview conducted by FBI Agent Garrett Gumbinner and
Craig Appel of the Aurora Police Department on July 20,2012. The subject being interviewed is
James Holmes.

GG:

GARRETT GUMBINNER

CA:

CRAIG APPEL

JH:

JAMES HOLMES

RECORDING BEGINS

??:

We'l1 need you to...

??:

(Inaudible).

GG:

Okay. (Inaudible) on the...on the, uh, on the sneakers. On the black sneakers.

JH:

It's blue.

GG:

Okay. Is there

JH:

(Inaudible) just, um, supposed to be (inaudible) force so you guys (inaudible) send
everybody to the theater (inaudible)

GG:

Oh, okay.

JH:

line running from the back of that, James? (Inaudible) chairs or

something else in front of there?

So

it's

set to (inaudible) when music played really, really loud so that would get people to

call.

GG:

(Inaudible). right

JH:

(Inaudible) it would get the force (inaudible) to go there (inaudible).

??:

(Inaudible)

CA:

I think a neighbor went over to your place around midnight

Page

I of19

JH:

(Inaudible). rieht

CA:

Yeah.

GG:

IJm, so, James, help me here. So the point (inaudible) was (inaudible) diversion.
(Inaudible). What...what's gonna set everything off? (kraudible) the trip wire - is that
gonna set everything in the apartment offor how...how...how is everything set to...to
not so much detonate but start the inferno?

JH:

Uh, (inaudible) well the (inaudible) fireworks, remote system, (inaudible) It has all the
wires (inaudible) and it's on top of the 'fridge.

GG:

Right.

JH:

And you guys disabled that already or?

GG:

No, we haven't done anything.

JH:

Did you, uh, get the transmitter?

GG:

Wh...where is the transmitter at?

JH:

I put it in a garbage bag, uh, with the (inaudible) the music synced so the music would go
off and then people would go to the garbage bag by the dumpster and I put a RC car in
there. I put the transmitter on top of the...in the...on top of the garbage bag so that
they'd see the RC car and then try and play with it. So then they'd press the transmitter
buttons.

GG:

And then they'd (inaudible).

JH:

And that would set off the fuses to just the gun powder, gasoline mixture.

GG:

Okay.

JH:

Which might set off the, uh, the thermite in the middle.

GG:

Is that what's in that bowl?

JH:

There's...yeah, (inaudible) I put the thermite in that, uh, mortar and pestle

GG:

(Inaudible) right, yeah.

JH:

And then on top of the pickle jars(inaudible).

GG:

(Inaudible).

Page2 of 19

JH:

That way it would go through and then down to (inaudible).

GG:

(Inaudible).

JH:

And then the magnesium ribbon (inaudible) in the middle mortar and pestle thermite.

GG:

There's magnesium in there, too?

JH:

I had two magnesium ribbons; one's...one that I chopped up into flakes, I guess and
spread it around so guys (inaudible) spray (inaudible) so if you spray water on it, it
(inaudible).

GG:

So magnesium (inaudible) crunched some of that and spread

JH:

I didn't powder it, I

GG:

Okay, so you just crunched it?

JH:

(Inaudible). Yes,(inaudible).

it

out?

GG: Ald that was magnesium ribbon, right, that...that

you crunched up and sprinkled

throughout the apartment?

JH:

Yeah. Not throughout, just in that...

GG:

Mainroom?

JH:

...that center. ..

GG:

Okay.

JH:

...everything is right there (inaudible).

GG:

lJm, uh, so and you also sprinkled some of that thermite on the glass jars sitting on
your...sitting on the, uh, on the chair, right?

JH:

Each of the three. There...there's three glass jars.

GG:

Yeah, well we really haven't gotten to good of a look (inaudible) 'cause like I said, we're
very concerned about people and we didn't want to do anything and...and (inaudible).

JH:

So you didn't

.
GG:

just have 'em leave the apartment (inaudible)?

We had...we have people that have...that have left most of the apartment...your
apartment building but there's a lot of people, there's a lot of bystanders. We're trying to
get people out of the area, which we're doing a good job of.

Page 3

of 19

JH:

(Inaudible)It shouldn't go that far.

GG:

I know, but (inaudible) James, and I appreciate you...you telling me what you got and
that's why we're here so I'm gonna be able to make sure that no one gets hurt. So let me
ask you, James, so there's three of the jars. One's on a, uh, one's on the seat right in the
main room. The other one is over by...

JH:

(Inaudible) the computer chair and the wooden chair.

GG:

Okay.

JH:

And then there's the (inaudible).

GG:

Where's the wooden chair?

JH:

You...you guys really didn't (inaudible)?

GG:

We haven't.. .I mean we.. .we....we put a camera in there but I don't...I don't have
access to the (inaudible).

JH:

(Inaudible) uh, east (inaudible) towards the northeast of the computer chair (inaudible).

GG:

And all of those have gasoline?

A11...a11 the jars have the same...same

stuff in it with the

ammunition?

JH:

Yeah.

GG:

And...and what

JH:

(Inaudible) 40 caliber and I don't remember if (inaudible) 223 or 556.

GG:

And (inaudible) what other liquid did you put in there? Did you put gas?

JH:

I didn't put any gas in. I only put napalm (inaudible)

GG:

You...you said napalm?

JH:

Uh, (inaudible) I think it's napalm. I did the polystyrene and gasoline mixture. Napalm

is

exactly

in that, James?

and then

I (inaudible).

B.
GG:

(Inaudible) you put that in there, that's clear akind of sludge stuff. Wh...what.did you
put on top of that looks black?

JH:

That's, uh, smokeless powder.

Page 4

of

19

GG:

Okay. Um, and then...and then you put that on top so it should (inaudible) down?

JH:

Yeah, I put the thermite on the top and then put in a little cup (inaudible) the ribbon goes
and (inaudible) the thermite and the thermite goes down (inaudible).

GG:

Okay. Now in the sprite bottles that are around the computer chair, what...

JH:

Those are just gasoline.

GG:

Okay. So (inaudible) so you walk in the front door. I got the fishing line right there that
goes to the glyberin in the Thermos, right? On top of the...on the sneakers ?

JH:

Yes.

GG:

Okay. (Inaudible). There's nothing on the backside of that Thermos that's attached to
the computer chair is there? 'Cause it looked like there was a wire or something running
to it.

JH: I...I don't remember (inaudible).

GG:

Okay.

JH:

IIh, there...I might have put a wire (inaudible).

GG:

Yeah, it was some (inaudible).

JH:

(Inaudible) fuse into the frying pan to the...

GG:

Okay.

JH:

...(inaudible).

GG:

(Jm, so then we got the gas. How (inaudible)were you going to ignite the gas in the two
liter bottles? Was it.,.is it from the. ..

JH:

Those are just to have fumes come into the air. ..

GG:

Okay.

JH:

...from those two liter bottles.

GG:

Okay.

JH:

(Inaudible) Then a whole bunch of aroma things so you don't smell the gas (inaudible).

GG:

Is that the white stuff on the

floor? How (inaudible).

Page 5

of

19

JH:

No, that's just to scare you guys. That's just, uh, ammonium chloride which produces a
lot of smoke (inaudible).

GG:

Ammonium chloride (inaudible). Um, and then the air freshener is to mask the odor
(inaudible). Al1the Christmas trees, you know, the little thingamajigies that you hang
from a rearview mirror?

JH:

Yeah, so they *orid come when the music came and not because they smelled gasoline
and (inaudible).

GG:

Okay. So those are (inaudible) the light bulb

for it but it (inaudible).

JH:

Yeah.

GG:

Uh, that...that's the thermite, right, that's in there?

JH:

(Inaudible).

GG:

Okay. (Inaudible).

JH:

(Inaudible).

GG:

Yeah, 'cause (inaudible).

JH:

(Inaudible).

GG:

little black improvised mortars that are around...around that...that bowl,

right? Those little black balls.

JH:

(Inaudible) uh, (inaudible) diversion stuff.

GG:

Okay.

JH:

plastic. They're six inch (inaudible) six inch (inaudible) shells and (inaudible) the,
uh, the gun powder in the three inch shells which stick into the (inaudible) into the gun
powder (inaudible). (Inaudible) you have a (inaudible)bigger six inch shell filled with,
uh, gasoline and motor oil but they won't snap shut (inaudible) pressure. (Inaudible)...

GG:

(Inaudible) pop?.

JH:

(Inaudible). Yeah (inaudible) they would pop because they're plastic.

GG:

So what's in them(inaudible)?

- I don't know if there's

chemistryname

So, James, the

Just

Page 6

of

19

JH:

(Inaudible).

GG:

Anything?

JH:

[Ih, by now they're probably (inaudible) gasoline popped out of it (inaudible).

GG:

So (inaudible).

JH:

And then (inaudible) on the...on the wall (inaudible).

GG:

I didn't

JH:

Oh, they're just plastic shells (inaudible).

GG:

Okay. (Inaudible) six inch ones have gas in them on the floor?

JH:

They did but they popped (inaudible).

GG:

Okay.

JH:

Yeah.

GG:

And then the three inch ones had black powder or smokeless?

JH:

Smoke...uh,smokeless.

GG:

see the ones on the

wall yet.

Okay. Alright. So that's...now, let me askyouthis, James. You talked about leaving
the remote in the dumpster.

JH:

It's not in the dumpster. The people will always leave their trash outside the dumpster.

GG:

(Inaudible)and that's where you left it?

JH:

The...the, uh, behind the dumpster in veiw (inaudible). (Inaudible)...

GG:

Okay.

JH:

...near the...near the Mexican restaurant. That side.

GG:

So

if I'm looking at the dumpster straight on, is it to my right or my left? What do you

think?
JH:

Um, looking at it straight on, go...it's to the 1eft kind of where the (inaudible). It's sort
(inaudible) parking spot.

PageT of 19

GG:

Okay. And what does it look like, James? (haudible) remote control car remote. It's
a...is it a remote like a TV remote?

JH:

(Inaudible) white garbage bag with the...the boom box in it and the...the (inaudible) and
the outside on the garbage bag is the remote 1,2,3,4, uh, and A, B, C, D (inaudible).

GG:

Okay. So let me ask you this, James. Other than that remote, hitting one of those
buttons, can any of this stuffgo off on a timer or any timed event?

JH:

No,

GG:

(Inaudible) so we're not...so it can't be (inaudible)?

JH:

No, there's no timer. Just...

GG:

No timer? IJm, so once we move through the main. ..the main floor, the...so we have the
computer chair and then we have all that stuff with the...the thermite in the bowl. Then
we go back toward the kitchen. What's back there on the right hand side? That's where
the other...that's where the other jar is, right?

JH:

(Inaudible) no, it's not (inaudible).

GG:

(Inaudible) outside because like if you're going back to the kitchen, it's on the left, right?
Like on a TV tray or something like that?

IH:

There's a glass on the TV stand and it's real...it's closer to the door than, you know,
(inaudible).

GG:

Oh,

JH:

(Inaudible).

GG:

Okay. And is that booby trapped at all?

JH:

No.

GG:

(Inaudible). (Inaudible) the only booby trap right in front of the door?

JH:

Yeah. Only that fishing line.

I...I didn't set any timer.

really? Okay.

GG: Okay. Um, you talked about crunching up the magnesium and spreading
uh, the apartment.
.
JH: Yeah.

Page 8

of 19

it

around the,

GG:

okay. what about the aluminum powder and (inaudible)you bought cold packs
(inaudible) ammonium nitrate?

JH:

No.

Al1 the...alt the cold packs are (inaudible). I went to five or six different stores and
they're all non-ammonium nitrate based specifically I guess because of this kind of thing

(inaudible).

GG:

Sure. Um, so what about the zinc? you bought some zinc,

JH:

Yeah, that was...that was all. ..the zinc, uh, iodine, ammonium...I needed ammonium
nitrate from those cooler packs to have, uh, water. It ignites in water so when you try and
put it out, uh, it would get worse.

GG:

And...and...

JH:

But (inaudible) couldn't get (inaudible).

GG:

(Inaudible)nitrate?

JH:

(Inaudible).

GG:

And that was (inaudible) zinc and the aluminum powder for?

JH:

I use the aluminum powder for the...I use aluminum powder for something and I think
that's what you make the thermite...

GG:

Okay.

JH:

...and the aluminum (inaudible).

GG:

And you (inaudible). Did you grind it up? How did...

JH:

Yeah, I had file(inaudible).

GG:

And you...

JH:

I didn't grind all of it up (inaudible).

GG:

And you think you used it in the, uh, in the thermite(inaudible). okay.

JH:

(Inaudible) aluminum powder and iron oxide. I think the (inaudible) I got mostly Lucite I
think 'cause it was black, uh, black iron oxide (inaudible). I put two iron eleckodes
(inaudible) glass jar with water and iodine and then put a (iniudible) battery charger
(inaudible) wall and the positive end on the (inaudible) and the negative end on the
opposite side of the glass. And (inaudible) bunch of rusty water. thut's how I got my
rust for the thermite.

Page 9

of

19

col:,".ect?

GG:

(Inaudible) iodine and...

JH:

The iodine is just table salt and that's to (inaudible) the (inaudible)rust reaction.

GG:

Yeah? Um, okay. So none of (inaudible)it is timed so none of it can go off without
someone hitting the button isbasically what we think, right?

JH:

The timing was supposed to be the music so (inaudible) the people there and they got the
whole shindig (inaudible).

GG:

Okay.

JH:

(Inaudible).

GG:

So let me ask you this, James. There's an alnmo can

in your bedroom. What's.. .what's

in there?

JH:

Uh, just leftover afllmo (inaudible).

GG:

So there's no explosivehazards?

JH:

No, there's nothing in my bedroom that's...or kitchen. Well, there's the remaining
gasoline. In the gas tank there should be safe(inaudible).

GG:

Where's that at?

JH:

Lr the kitchen under the microwave. (Inaudible) gasoline.

GG:

Okay. But you're saying there's nothing in your, uh, in your bedroom?

JH:

Yeah, in the bathroom there's just a little blow torch on top of a (inaudible) yellow. Or
not (inaudible) like propane (inaudible) kind of thing. But it's not connected (inaudible).

GG:

So

JH:

It's just

GG:

Arrd that's in the bathroom?

JH:

Yeah.

GG:

And you're saying it's gas in all those two liter bottles. Is there anything in the kitchen
that's an explosive or incendiaryhazard?

JH:

(Inaudible)

it's a propane tank or...

a

blow torch that's just sitting there.

Page 10

of

19

GG:

(Inaudible)Did you put anything in the kitchen?

JH:

(Inaudible). No. No, I don't think I left anything.

GG:

Okay.

JH:

(Inaudible).

GG:

And you just put...now the firing box that's above the refrigerator with all the wires
going to it...

JH:

Yeah, talon clips.

GG :

Right. Is that attached to any remote or is that...

JH:

That's the transmitter.

GG :

Okay.

JH:

(Inaudible) the transmitter goes from the...you know, the dumpster which somebody
goes to play with the RC car or whatever (inaudible).

GG:

Right.

JH:

And then sets off the...the receiver on top of the 'fridge (inaudible).

GG:

And the...the two little boxes that are in the main room (inaudible) you know, back and
forth, the launch control?

JH:

[Ih, it's infrared so you need. ..there's an infrar...the transmitter for that's behind my
plant. You have to go and press that. Well, first you have to (inaudible) really have to
try and set those off(inaudible).

GG:

'Cause they're not armed?

JH:

You could arm them. You have...

GG:

Are they armed right now, James?

JH:

Uh, no. They're (inaudible).

GG:

And the, uh, transmitter is on your plant?

JH:

Yeah, and those, uh, clips are ignited to (inaudible) fuse that it tested it (inaudible) from
those clips.

So

that's...that's the tran...that's the receiver. It's (inaudible).

Page 11

of19

GG:

(Inaudible)?

JH:

No, (inaudible) quick fuse and, uh, the other (inaudible)the green fuse. (Inaudible) big
fuses don't ignite with those (inaudible) clips.

GG:

And when you said big fuse, what do you mean? Explain that to me.

JH:Theonesstickingoutofthesixinchshe11s(inaudible)

GG:

Okay. And that's what (inaudible).

JH:

(Inaudible) um, cardboard.

GG:
-

Okay. So the transmitter's behind your plant. What plant? (Inaudible) if you walk into
(inaudible).

JH:

I only have the one plant.

GG:

So

JH:

if youwalk in the door (inaudible).

(Inaudible) kitchen table (inaudible). There's the, uh, glass TV stand and the...the table,
then the kitchen (inaudible) and then (inaudible).

GG:

Okay. And then what's it...what's the...what's it look like?

JH:

tlh, it has a set up button(inaudible).

GG:

(Inaudible) what color is it, James?

JH:

Oh, it's white. (Inaudible) the other transmitter (inaudible) buttons.

GG:

And so if I pick up the transmitter and I hit the button, nothing should happen because the
launch controls aren't armed, right?

JH:

You have to point it at the launch control and hit hold (inaudible) and then you have to
press another button so you really have to go out of your way to. . ..and then it wouldn't
ignite anyway.

GG:

(Inaudible) the big tuses (inaudible).

JH:

Yeah, they're (inaudible).

GG:

Okay. Alright. What am I missing, James? What...I haven't (inaudible), you know, like
I said, I haven't been in the apartment. I...I've only seen pictures and (inaudible) little
video. What...what else is in there that...that could hurt people?

Page 12

of 19

JH:

Uh, well, I'm not in there anymore so.

GG:

(Inaudible)Yeah, but how much (inaudible)stuffthat you've put together. Like if I put
bomb techs or I go in...into your apartment, based off of what you told me right now,
wh...what else do I need to be concerned about? (Inaudible)Do you have any pressure
plates or anything hidden under your rugs or anything like that?

JH: No. (Inaudible).

GG:

Did you saturate the carpet with gasoline at allinaudible)?

JH:

[Ih, yeah, I did and (inaudible) one of those, uh,

GG:

And is it just gas or is it nitro methane or what?

JH:

No, it was literally just gas (inaudible).

GG:

Okay. Did you use any nitro methane or (inaudible)hotter fuels?

JH:

No,I(inaudible). (Inaudible).

GG:

IJm, so he$ me out, James, on that magnesium that you crunched up that you put on the

soda bottles. And I got the soda bottles

in green because the. ..you can't see the gas...you can't tell it's gasoline. (Inaudible).

carpet.

JH:

It's not...it's just...it's not really (inaudible)

GG:

(Inaudible)ribbon?

JH:

Yeah. (Inaudible)...

GG:

If I...

JH:

.. .in squares.

GG:

...and if I step on it,

JH:

No, no. I stepped on it multiple times and it didn't...it. ..it. ..magnesium just doesn't
ignite with pressure.

GG:

(Inaudible) the water? You had said something earlier that

JH:

No. Magnesium...well, and you should know this.

GG:

This one I don't know. That's why I'm asking, James. (Inaudible)...

it'll

ignite?

Page 13

of19

if...

JH:

Magnesium...well, they teach all the firefighters magnesium fires need to be handled
differently...

GG:

Okay.

JH:

...than normal fires because (inaudible) spray water on magnesium fires it creates
(inaudible) hydrogen. . .

GG:

Yeah.

JH:

...(inaudible).

GG:

I'm not...I'm a bomb guy; I'm not a fire Buy, so actually you had me on the magnesium
(inaudible).

JH:

Well, I'm not a bomb guy or a fire guy.

GG:

Yeah.

GG:

So...so we've got the magnesium strips that you just kind of threw around because it's
gonna react with water. The thermite, which is the iron oxide with the, uh, with the rust
and what was the other...what was the other one?

JH:

The iron oxide is the rust and (inaudible)with aluminum powder.

GG:

Okay.

JH:

And I...

GG:

And (inaudible).

JH:

...didn't get...I couldn't measure the ratios; didn't have a scale. (Inaudible) it's supposed
to be 30 to 1 iron to aluminum but I ended up (inaudible) estimating.

GG:

And that's what's in the bowl in the rniddle, right?

JH:

Yeah, and the mortal thing (inaudible).

GG:

Okay. (Inaudible) yeah pestal, the (inaudible)mortar. lJm, and then you sprinkled the
thermite in the. . .in the glass...in the glass. ..they're glass jars, right?

JH:

Not in the glass. I put the (inaudible) shell kinda thing.' Put thern in the little three inch,
uh, plastic shell (inaudible). (Inaudible).

Page 14

of 19

GG:

And the thermite in the...in the (inaudible) in the shell.

JH:

Yeah, so like (inaudible) bum down the fumes.

GG:

(Inaudible) the gas with smokeless powder.

JH:

Yeah.

GG:

Okay. Um, not the gas, I'm sorry. It was napalm,

JH:

It...when I started (inaudible) separate a lifile (inaudible) brown kind of (inaudible)

gasoline (inaudible).

GG:

And the napalm (inaudible) polystyrene and gas, right, mixed together?

JH:

Yes. I bought a whole bunch of Styrofoam cups.

GG:

And did you grind 'e1n or did you tear 'em up (inaudible)or did they dissolve?

JH:

I put 'em in the metal pot (inaudible) and I got two paint brushes. LIh, there's two paint
brushes have some napalm on 'em (inaudible) go off(inaudible).

GG:

Okay.

JH:

There's (inaudible) the napalm and push the Styrofoam down into the gasoline to mix
(inaudible)mix them faster.

GG:

And (inaudible) in that silverbowl?

JH:

LIh,

GG:

And it's

JH:

IJm, I washed it but it's either in a...in the cupboard (inaudible) on top of the countertop
(inaudible).

GG:

(Inaudible).

JH:

Napalm doesn't stick to the (inaudible).

CA:

(Inaudible) the transmitter that was outside, is it missing or?

JH:

Uh, you tell me. (Inaudible).

CA:

I haven't been (inaudible).

it's not silver - it's stainless steel.

a

bowl? Where's that bowl

at?

Page 15

of

19

JH:

(Inaudible).

GG:

We've (inaudible) and it could still be there. We...we didn't do a search. We didn't find
it. Hey, James, real quick, the gasoline and the ammonium chloride, the (inaudible)
ammonium chloride is what you sprinkled on the ground,right?

JH:

The white powder (inaudible), that's supposed to just make smoke.

GG:

(Inaudible)if what?

JH:

(Inaudible).

GG:

(Inaudible) flame or (inaudible)?

JH:

Yeah. (Inaudible) uh, that one is (inaudible).

GG:

Okay. And then so (inaudible) the small little three inch balls.

JH:

(Inaudible)Those are halfivay filled with smokeless powder.

GG:

And with a fuse going into them, correct?

JH:

Yes.

GG:

Okay. And that fuse is attached to?

JH:

To the, uh, receiver on top of the rfridge. (Inaudible).

GG:

Okay. And the six inch (inaudible)balls?

JH:

They were supposed to have gasoline (inaudible) didn't work as intended.

GG:

Okay. And those fuses are bigger fuses, right?

JH:

Those are dummy fuses (inaudible).

GG:

They're not hooked to the launch control (inaudible)?

JH:

They're (inaudible)hooked but they can't go off.

GG:

Okay. IJm, so going back to what Craig had just said about this...this, uh, transmitter,
you had a white garbage bag with a boom box in it, right?

JH:

Yeah, the boom box...I had made a CD, uh, fortyminutes of silence so I had the boom
box playrng before I left that (inaudible) and then the songs would come on afterwards
and splitter software (inaudible).

Page 16

of

19

CA:

Real loud?

JH:

The boom box isn't loud at

all. It was the computer was loud (inaudible). That's why

they would...

CA:

Okay.

JH:

But the boom box had (inaudible) so you could actually see through (inaudible) that
respect and the...

GG:

And that was outside, James?

JH:

This is between the number ten parking space and the dumpster.

GG:

Okay.

JH:

(Inaudible).

CA:

(Leaudible) the computer is

JH:

The computer makes the initial noise. I set that for 25 minutes of silence and then noise.
And then the boom box was 40 minutes. So they discover the (inaudible)thing twentyfive or slightly later and then (inaudible)they go to check it out and then (inaudible).

GG:

Hey, James.

JH:

(Inaudible).

GG:

The transmitter, again, you said it's white with 1, 2,3 onit that you left outside the
dumpsters?

JH:

It's just got (inaudiblemore ) numbers and I would say eight(inaudible).

GG:

And it's white?

JH:

And I wrote a little, uh, on a card (inaudible).

GG:

So would you say...

JH:

(Inaudible).

GG:

...would you say it's about that size or bigger or smaller?

JH:

(Inaudible) antennae but it's all the way (inaudible) other side.

in...in your apartment. That's what

Page 17

of

19

made the noise, right?

GG:

Okay.

JH:

And it's...it's supposed to have 200 meter range radio frequency controlled. Uh, four
(inaudible) hundred and thirty-four...I don't remember the frequencybut...

GG:

Probably a200 megahertz or something like that?

JH:

No, no, no. (Inaudible) 400 megahertz.

GG:

Okay.

JH:

434 point something, 37 (inaudible).

GG:

Megahertz? Okay. And so you left that outside with a card (inaudible). that said woom
Inaudible) on it?

JH:

(Inaudible) yeah so I had the RC car has the (inaudible) and then I had the thing to leave
it pointed at the RC car near the transmitter (inaudible).

GG:

Okay.

JH:

(Inaudible) the transmitter.

GG:

Now that box that was on the 'fridge, that's what this is going to?

JH:

Yeah.

GG:

Okay. That box (inaudible) the 'fridge, is it plugged in or is it running off a battery?
How is that thing running?

JH:

llh, it's got a battery.

GG:

So

JH:

No. (Inaudible).

GG:

How long is the battery gonna last, you know?

it's not plugged into the wall socket or anything?

JH: I...I (inaudible)didn't

test it how long (inaudible).

GG:

What kind of battery? Did you put batteries in it or was it a self-contained individual
battery that comes with the machine?

JH:

It's

a contained battery that,

uh, (inaudible)solid lead acid battery

Page 18

of

19

GG:

Okay. (Inaudible). James, anything else you can think of if I put guys in that apartment
that I need to be aware ofl Did you cook up any explosives? Did you...so (inaudible)
it's all incendiary? There's nothing that's gonna go boom?

JH:

(Inaudible)unless those bullets can (inaudible).

GG:

You (inaudible)didn't make ammonium nitrate. You didn't make any high explosives?

JH:

No. (Inaudible) ammonium nitrate.

GG:

So if I go up (inaudible)up in there James, anything (inaudible) else you can think of, you
know, (inaudible)that I have to be concerned about?

JH:

Um, well, is music still playing? It could be (inaudible).

GG:

(Inaudible);

JH:

(Inaudible).

GG:

Is there anything attached to your computer? Any wires or anything running into your

computer?

JH:

No.

GG:

Okay. Um, and the gasoline and the two liter bottles, that was gonna be just...were there
any fuses going into that? I couldn't really see.

JH:

Those are just to make fumes.

GG:

So the fumes (inaudible)?

JH:

Yeah.

RECORDING ENDS.

Page 19

of

19