Nicholas Skvarla Child Pornography Transcript

Case 6:09-cr-06147-RJA-JWF Document 80 Filed 08/20/12 Page 1 of 77
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

WESTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
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v.
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NICHOLAS SKVARLA,
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Defendant.
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Docket No. 09-CR-6147
Buffalo, New York

August 14, 2012
1:57 p.m.
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TRANSCRIPT OF NON-JURY TRIAL CONTINUED

BEFORE THE HONORABLE RICHARD J. ARCARA
UNITED STATES CHIEF DISTRICT COURT JUDGE
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APPEARANCES:
For the Plaintiff:
MARISSA J. MILLER, ESQ. and

AARON J. MANGO, ESQ.
For the Defendant:
JOHN R. PARRINELLO, ESQ.
Court Reporter:
YVONNE M. GARRISON, RPR

Official Court Reporter
U.S.D.C., W.D.N.Y.
2 Niagara Square
Buffalo, New York 14202
716-861-7568
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Proceedings
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THE CLERK:
Criminal Action 2009-6147A, United States
Nicholas Skvarla, continuation of non-jury trial.
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Counsel, please state your name and the party you

represent for the record.
MS. MILLER:
MR. PARRINELLO:
Marissa Miller for the government.

John Parrinello, representing the
defendant Nicholas Skvarla.
THE COURT:
Well, Mr. Parrinello, I guess you're up.
MR. PARRINELLO:
I'm up, yes, Your Honor.
And my
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only problem is the witness I intend to call is apparently,
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according to Ms. Miller, delayed.
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MS. MILLER:
Your Honor, I spoke with him
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approximately 20 minutes ago, and he said he'd gotten caught up
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at the Williamsville tolls, but was past them and expected to
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be here.
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MR. PARRINELLO:
Your Honor, before we leave, can we
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take up a scheduling matter --
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THE COURT:
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MR. PARRINELLO:
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Obviously we're at the position of the beginning and
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Sure.
presumably the end of the defense case today.
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THE COURT:
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MR. PARRINELLO:
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-- perhaps?
Okay.
Which will be followed by a renewal
of the 29 motion and then ultimately a summation.

THE COURT:
Okay.

Proceedings
MR. PARRINELLO:
And I've told Ms. Miller that I'm
prepared to do the witness today, I'm not prepared to do a
summation today.
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THE COURT:
Okay.
MR. PARRINELLO:
THE COURT:
MR. PARRINELLO:
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MR. PARRINELLO:
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THE COURT:
Sure.
Can we -- can we do it Monday?
Let's see.
How long will your summations
be just so I have an idea?
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MR. PARRINELLO:
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MS. MILLER:
Forty-five minutes.
I imagine at the very most, 20 minutes,
Your Honor.
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THE COURT:
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MS. MILLER:
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THE COURT:
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I'd probably need a day or two just
to get prepared.
THE COURT:
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Is the Court on
Yeah.
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Today is the 14th.
trial?
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When would you be available for
the summation?
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2:00 on Monday.
The 20th.
All right.
Let me know when the witness
arrives.
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(A recess was taken at 2:05 p.m.)
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THE COURT:
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MR. PARRINELLO:
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THE COURT:
Mr. Parrinello, are we ready?
Okay.
Yes, Your Honor.

D. Kron - Direct
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MR. PARRINELLO:
The defense calls Deputy Kron as its
witness.
THE CLERK:
your last name for the record.
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Please state your full name and spell
THE WITNESS:
My full name is David Kron, K-R-O-N.
Sworn.
DAVID KRON, SWORN,
THE COURT:
All right.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
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BY MR. PARRINELLO:
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Q.
Good afternoon, Deputy.
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A.
Good afternoon, sir.
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How are you?
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Q.
I'm fine, thank you.
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A.
Good.
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Q.
Just to start out with, it's my understanding that you
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work for the Monroe County Sheriff's Department for a number of
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years; is that correct?
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A.
Yes, sir, that's correct.
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Q.
And then there was a period of time that you acted both as
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a deputy for the Monroe County Sheriff's Department and as a
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task force officer on loan to the FBI?
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A.
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Q.
And I also understand that is -- you no longer are in a
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TFO, task force officer, status with the FBI, are you?

D. Kron - Direct
A.
That is correct.
I am no longer in that status.
Q.
And as far as being a deputy with the Monroe County
Sheriff's Department, is -- are you retiring as of today?
A.
As of 5 p.m. today, yes.
Q.
So this is your last day?
A.
This will be my last day.
Q.
And it's my understanding that you are taking a position
abroad?
A.
That is -- yes, that's my intention.
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Q.
Okay.
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County Sheriff's office, how long -- well, when did you begin
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serving as a Monroe County deputy?
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A.
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was in a part-time capacity.
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1993.
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Q.
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today and informed her today that there came a time in 1997 --
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at least she's made me aware of it and you made her aware of it
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today -- that you were formally disciplined for giving an
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incomplete answer to a superior officer; is that correct?
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A.
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that's correct.
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Q.
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taken against you in a capacity as a Monroe County sheriff?
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A.
Now, with respect to your position with the Monroe
I began in 1990.
I believe it was October of 1990.
That
I was hired full-time early of
And I understand you had a conversation with Ms. Miller
It was '97 or '98.
Okay.
I don't know exactly which year, but
Any other disciplinary actions in your capacity --
None, none whatsoever.

D. Kron - Direct
Q.
How about as a task force officer with the FBI?
A.
No.
Q.
Now, did there come a time in January of 2006, that you
had a -- an assignment with the Monroe County Sheriffs office
that you began monitoring the internet?
A.
Yes, that is correct.
Q.
Now, prior to that time, what, if any, training did you
have with respect to internet surveillance?
A.
Well, the position was entitled proactive online
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investigations.
I was placed in that position January of 2006,
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and I received training following my appointment, and that
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would have been with the State Police Internet Crimes Against
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Children Task Force.
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Q.
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training commence?
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A.
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of 2006, perhaps.
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Q.
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basically in two capacities, one of them was an enticement
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investigator, correct?
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
And can you explain to the Judge what an enticement
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investigator is?
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A.
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online investigations of enticement of children.
And when did -- was that training -- when did that
That was approximately -- I don't recall exactly -- March
And as far as your internet experience, you were assigned
That's not the title we use, but I was assigned to conduct

And

D. Kron - Direct
essentially what that boiled down to is I went online and I
would have the persona of a 14-year old child and simply
communicate with others online, and -- and open an
investigation if one of the individuals I communicated with
attempted to meet that child, my persona, for sexual purposes.
Q.
deputy for the purposes of inducing people to make contact with
you for sexual purposes, underage people?
A.
I don't understand the question.
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Q.
Okay.
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A.
Yes, sir.
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Q.
You would get online and you would portray yourself as an
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underage individual, correct?
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A.
That is correct, yes.
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Q.
Male or female, or both?
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A.
More often than not female.
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Q.
And of course what you were doing on the internet was not
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true, right?
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A.
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asking.
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Q.
Right.
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A.
Yes, sir.
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Q.
And you were also engaged in a peer-to-peer -- in a
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peer-to-peer investigative role, correct?
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A.
Okay.
So you were portraying yourself as other than a
As far as the enticement investigative portion?
I was not an underage female, if that's what you're
That came at a later point in that assignment, but yes.

D. Kron - Direct
Q.
beginning of January, 2006, am I right?
A.
There weren't two assignments, sir, if I may clear it up.
Q.
Sure.
A.
I was assigned for the purpose exclusively of, as you put
it, portraying an underage child on the internet.
assignment involved two other forms of investigations, I would
say, approximately mid 2007, to include file sharing of
peer-to-peer investigations.
And but these two assignments took place after the
The
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Q.
And that assignment was mid 2007?
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A.
It was the same assignment, but the duties evolved to that
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approximately mid 2007, yes.
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Q.
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investigations, that is investigating computer crimes by
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proactive participation or investigation, is that -- is that
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accurate?
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A.
That is accurate, yes, sir.
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Q.
And with respect to the peer-to-peer is it -- what -- is
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it fair to say that you went online -- well, let me back up a
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moment.
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So safe to say that you were engaged in computer crime
Were you the only Monroe County Sheriff deputy assigned to
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these tasks?
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
During that period of time, 2006 to, say, March 13th of
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2008?

D. Kron - Direct
A.
investigations, yes, sir.
Q.
was your work schedule?
A.
10 p.m. at night.
Q.
How many days a week?
A.
Five days a week, Monday through Friday.
Q.
And so it's safe to say that Saturday and Sunday, as far
Yes, I was the only person assigned to online
And -- and how many -- during that period of time, what
Typically when I began it was 2 in the afternoon until
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as the sheriffs department was concerned, that there was no
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Monroe County Sheriff's deputy involved in computer crime
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investigations, correct?
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A.
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weekends, that is correct.
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Q.
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investigations, you would go online and you would look for
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people committing crimes using the internet; is that right?
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A.
It's very broad, but yes.
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Q.
And, sir, with respect to that portion of your duties, did
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you understand what the internet was?
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A.
Yes, yes, I did.
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Q.
What was the internet?
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A.
Again, that's a very broad question.
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With a few exceptions where I would come in on the
Okay.
And with respect to your peer-to-peer
Specifically, what do you mean?

mean?
What are you referring to, sir?
What functionality do you

D. Kron - Direct
Well, what is the internet?
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Q.
Can you tell the Judge what
the internet is?
A.
point that enables computers all over the world to communicate
through a number of protocols.
Q.
Does it have a source from which it emanates?
A.
There is no main source.
Q.
Okay.
source from which the internet operates?
The internet is a network, a worldwide network at this
When you say "no main source", is there a secondary
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A.
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function, internet service providers.
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themselves are all over the world, privately owned, publicly
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owned.
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of assistance from internet service providers and other
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networks.
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Q.
Does any identifiable company operate the internet?
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A.
As a whole, no, sir.
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Q.
Does -- is there any identifiable company which controls
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what is carried on the internet?
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A.
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There are -- there are services that allow the internet to
It essentially is just on its own, with the exception
Again, that's very general.

You mean in this country or worldwide?
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Q.
Anywhere.
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A.
I imagine --
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These computers
THE COURT REPORTER:

please?
Excuse me.
Can you repeat that,

D. Kron - Direct
THE WITNESS:
Can you repeat the question?
BY MR. PARRINELLO:
Q.
internet itself?
A.
There is not, not to my knowledge.
Q.
Do you know when the internet came into being?
A.
It originated, I believe, in the '50s for military
purposes.
Q.
And where did you learn that?
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A.
Probably the internet.
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Q.
You learned it came into existence -- the internet came
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into existence in the '50s, and you learned that from the
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internet?
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A.
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for military purposes, and I believe that was in the '50s.
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That is my belief.
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Q.
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Yes, sir.
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Is there any individual that controls the
The basic principles we had.
The technology into existence.
It was -- it was developed
And -- I'm sorry.

Did you take any -- by the way, how far did you go in
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school?
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A.
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complete it.
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credits.
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Q.
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Community College in Rochester, New York --
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A.
I -- I went to Monroe Community College.
I did not
I was there at -- I have about 70 college
So you went through high school and then to Monroe

D. Kron - Direct
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Q.
-- but didn't complete the curriculum, right?
A.
That is correct.
Q.
What curriculum were you in when you were in Monroe
Community College?
A.
Criminal justice.
Q.
Criminal justice?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And then any portion of that training or that course study
involve the internet?
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A.
Not to my recollection, no.
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Q.
Then after the Monroe Community College experience, did
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you then become a Monroe County Sheriff's deputy?
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A.
Yes, yes, sir.
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Q.
And did -- you said that you went just for training
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concerning the internet?
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A.
I had been at training, yes.
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Q.
Where was that?
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A.
I had been in multiple locations.
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Q.
Well, let me put it this way:
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of, say, July of 2008 --
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A.
Okay.
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Q.
-- where did you attend any formal training regarding the
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internet?
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A.
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Children Task Force that is a state police organization
Between 2006, and the end
I attended training through the Internet Crimes Against

D. Kron - Direct
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specializing in exploitation of children.
Q.
How long did that course last?
A.
It was -- I believe there were a couple courses that
lasted a few days a piece.
Q.
A few days a piece?
A.
Yes.
Q.
So from January, 2006, until July, 2009, would you say
that your total experience regarding the internet was six days?
A.
I believe it was probably more than that.
I don't recall
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exactly.
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Q.
You don't recall?
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A.
No, sir.
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Q.
Okay.
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investigating peer-to-peer -- doing a peer-to-peer
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investigation?
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A.
Yes, sir, I believe I was.
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Q.
And a peer-to-peer investigation, the shorthand for it is
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P-2-P, right?
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A.
Yes, it's often referred to that way.
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Q.
Pardon?
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A.
Yes, sir.
22
Q.
Now, a P-2-P or peer-to-peer network, do you know what
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that is?
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A.
Yes, sir, I do.
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Q.
And is that a -- where multiple users all over the world
Now, on March 13th, 2008, were you online that day

D. Kron - Direct
download a piece of software that enables them to share any
type of computer files?
A.
Yes, yes, I believe it is.
Q.
Now, there are certain programs associated with
peer-to-peer investigations, correct?
A.
There is several, yes.
Q.
Okay.
A.
A version of -- a version of LimeWire is available for
peer-to-peer investigations, yes.
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And would I be correct -- is LimeWire one of them?
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Q.
How about BearShare, B-E-A-R, Share?
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A.
To my knowledge, nobody uses BearShare for investigations.
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Q.
Well, is that a program associated with peer-to-peer
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investigations?
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A.
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my knowledge, uses that software.
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Q.
Did you use that software?
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A.
BearShare, no, sir.
18
Q.
Okay.
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A.
What is the question about Shareaza?
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Q.
Is that a program associated with peer-to-peer
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investigations?
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A.
It's a program publically available.
No investigator, to
How about Shareaza?
It's a -- yes.
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THE COURT:
What's that called?
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MR. PARRINELLO:
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THE COURT:
Okay.
Shareaza, S-H-E-R-E-A-Z-A (sic).

D. Kron - Direct
BY MR. PARRINELLO:
Q.
Am I pronouncing it correct?
A.
I always pronounce it Shareaza.
THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:
What does that word mean?

It's just a name given by the
developers to the software.
THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:
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Okay.
I don't know that it has meaning, sir.
BY MR. PARRINELLO:
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Q.
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investigations from, say, 2007, to March 13th, 2008?
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A.
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Now, did you use Shareaza in your peer-to-peer
I'm a little confused on what you mean by used it.

Did I use it on my computer in my office; is that what
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you're asking me?
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Q.
To conduct peer-to-peer investigations.
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A.
No, sir, never used Shareaza.
17
Q.
How about FrostWire?
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A.
I have never used that on my computer for investigations.
19
Q.
But that is a program associated with peer-to-peer
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investigations; isn't it?
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A.
It can be, yes.
22
Q.
But you didn't use it?
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A.
No, sir.
24
Q.
How about Morpheus?
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associated with peer-to-peer investigations called Morpheus?
Did you use a software program

D. Kron - Direct
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A.
I have not used Morpheus in these investigations.
Q.
Are there any others that I haven't mentioned, any other
software programs that are existing in that period of time from
2007, when you began the peer-to-peer investigations, to March,
13th, 2008?
A.
P-H-E-X; and I can't think of any others at this time.
Q.
conducted, what software did you use?
Yes.
There's Kazaa, K-A-Z-A-A; there's Phex, that's
And in your peer-to-peer investigations that you
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A.
I used a version of LimeWire.
11
Q.
A version?
12
A.
That's correct.
13
Q.
How many versions of LimeWire were there in that period of
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time for you to choose from?
15
A.
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each software as it's upgraded, developed and approved becomes
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a version, a new version.
18
Q.
All right.
19
A.
Not to be confused with the version I use.
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was created for law enforcement purposes.
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confuse the version with the average -- the common man
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definition of version.
23
Q.
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peer-to-peer computer investigations, you were using the
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version that was specifically created for law enforcement
For me to choose from there was only -- well, by version
This version
So I don't want to
So when you said you used a version of LimeWire in your

D. Kron - Direct
purposes?
A.
Yes, sir, I was.
MR. PARRINELLO:
Excuse me.
BY MR. PARRINELLO:
Q.
network using search terms consistent with child pornography
images and videos?
A.
Yes, sir, I did.
Q.
And in other words, you were conducting searches on the
Now, on March 13th, 2008, did you log onto the Gnutella
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Gnutella network, correct?
11
A.
12
Q.
What is a Gnutella network?
13
A.
Gnutella network is the name given to a network commonly
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used for peer-to-peer, also referred to as a protocol.
15
Q.
As what?
16
A.
As a protocol.
17
Q.
Protocol?
18
A.
Yes, sir.
19
Q.
And Gnutella is G-N-U-T-E-L-L-A.
20
Now, where did you learn to use the Gnutella network?
21
A.
22
or the software we were just discussing?
23
Q.
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onto the Gnutella network.
25
17
Can you repeat or rephrase the question?
No.
Gnutella network
You said that on March 13th, 2008, that you logged
THE COURT:
How do you spell that?

D. Kron - Direct
MR. PARRINELLO:
18
G-N-U-T-E-L-L-A.
BY MR. PARRINELLO:
Q.
Correct?
A.
Yes, that's correct.
Q.
And how did you know to log onto that network?
A.
Well, that network is the only network available to the
LimeWire version I was using.
that network.
choice when using the software.
So it automatically logs onto
And I didn't -- I don't select a network by
10
Q.
And the Gnutella network is part of the internet?
11
A.
You know, it's -- it uses the internet for communication,
12
yes.
13
Q.
It does?
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
So this -- logging onto Gnutella was not your choice, but
16
it was because you were using a certain -- a version of
17
LimeWire which automatically connected you to the Gnutella
18
network; is that what you're saying?
19
A.
20
peer-to-peer software.
21
peer-to-peer software I was using, utilizes the Gnutella
22
network.
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Correct.
Gnutella was a commonly used network for

The software I was using, the
So it was an unconscious decision that morning to use the
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Gnutella network.
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that.
It was simply the software I use utilizes

D. Kron - Direct
Q.
You said that morning.
A.
You know, I still get up in the morning, sir.
Q.
We all hopefully do, yes.
A.
Correct.
Q.
Now, my point is you said that morning.
you working -- did you log onto the Gnutella network using
LimeWire the morning of March 13th, 2008?
A.
that day -- I didn't get up that day and make a conscious
I thought you work from 2 to 10?
I don't recall the time.
Were you -- were
My point being I didn't wake up
10
decision to log onto the Gnutella network.
11
software available to me which so happens to utilize the
12
Gnutella network.
13
19
I simply used the
So I'm saying it wasn't -- I didn't have a choice of the
14
networks to chose from.
That network works with the software
15
that I use to firm my investigations.
16
Q.
And that was per the protocol, correct?
17
A.
The Gnutella network is a protocol.
18
Q.
Is a protocol?
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
Yes.
21
Gnutella, to introduce search terms which were consistent with
22
child pornography images and videos; is that correct?
23
A.
Yes, it is.
24
Q.
Can you tell the Judge how you do that?
25
physically -- in other words, you turning your computer on;
And so what you do is you used that network,
How did you

D. Kron - Direct
you're on LimeWire.
A.
click the LimeWire icon which would open the GUI or the user
interface for the software.
So how do you do it?
20
How do you --
Well, assuming my computer is already on, I would double
At that point I would tell the software to connect to the
Gnutella network.
At which point it would go out and connect
to ultrapeers.
Q.
connected with the Gnutella network what search term you
Ultrapeers handled the searches.
And do you remember on March 13th, 2008, when you
10
introduced that was consistent with child porn images and
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video?
12
A.
I don't recall specifically which term I used.
13
Q.
Okay.
14
A.
That's one I frequently, use, yes.
15
Q.
And can you tell the Judge what that means?
16
A.
Yeah, that's an acronym for preteen hardcore.
17
Q.
Preteen hardcore?
18
A.
Yes, sir.
19
Q.
Would you use 12-year old?
20
A.
12 YO was something that I would use, yes.
21
Q.
Okay.
22
March 13th, 2008, what search term you used to conduct your
23
investigation, correct?
24
A.
I don't recall.
25
Q.
Okay.
One of the terms would be P-T-H-C, correct?
And just specifically, you just don't remember on

D. Kron - Direct
21
A.
I'm quite certain it's documented, but I don't have that
documentation in front of me.
Q.
I understand.
A.
In this case, the search terms that are already inputted.
I'm able to create a list of search terms that I frequently
use, and there is a button basically within the software that
automatically uses those search terms.
Q.
had previously created?
So you type in the search term, correct?
So it's a timesaver.
So they're predesignated search terms in LimeWire that you
10
A.
Designated by me, but, yes.
11
Q.
Designated by you?
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
Okay.
14
A.
At that point I had -- I had received training from
15
individuals with the FBI in Buffalo, as well as some online
16
training on how to use.
17
investigations you learn --
18
Q.
Okay.
19
A.
-- you learn what terms are associated with the files of
20
interest per se.
21
Q.
22
retrieve results from the Gnutella network, correct?
23
A.
24
Q.
Now, the results of your introducing the search terms into
25
LimeWire onto the Gnutella network, the results, positive
And where did you learn how to use search terms?
And additionally as I conducted these
And the purpose of typing in the search terms is to

D. Kron - Direct
results, that is -- that is responses to these search terms,
could come to you from anywhere in the world, correct?
A.
Correct, yes.
Q.
Now, you couldn't tell specifically exactly where they
were coming from, could you?
A.
How specific are you referring?
Q.
Well, if you put -- let's try an example.
City?
22
State?
If you put 12 YO in and you got a hit?
A.
Okay.
10
Q.
Could you tell where it was coming from?
11
A.
I could tell at that point the city and state within
12
20 miles with 85 percent accuracy.
13
THE COURT:
14
THE WITNESS:
15
old.
16
investigations.
12 YO is an abbreviation for 12 years
It's a term commonly seen in child pornography
17
THE COURT:
18
BY MR. PARRINELLO:
19
Q.
20
What's 12 YO?
Okay.
Okay.
I just want to retreat to write it down.
You could tell the city and the state?
21
A.
Yes, sir.
22
Q.
Okay.
23
A.
If I recall correctly, it is within 20 miles of a city and
24
state.
25
it, with 85 percent accuracy.
Within what?
That being the -- the file or the result, as you put

Thus, giving me the ability to

D. Kron - Direct
approximate the location.
Q.
error, correct?
A.
At that point in the investigation, yes, sir.
Q.
Okay.
affect the state from which it was coming, correct, that
milage?
A.
referring to.
And you used 85 percent.
So there is 15 percent room for
And within 20 miles of a city and state, that could
It could traverse state lines, if that's what you're
10
Q.
Well, it could or it couldn't, correct?
11
A.
Correct.
12
Q.
Like Erie, Pennsylvania could really -- if 20 miles you
13
could be in New York State, right?
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
Okay.
16
when you were doing your P-2-P investigation, you had several
17
hits, correct?
18
23
And in what you did is -- is on March 13th, 2008,
Am I right -- is hits the right word?
19
A.
What are you referring to, responses based on the key
20
word?
21
Q.
Yeah.
22
A.
Yes, I nearly always get several hits or responses.
23
Q.
Okay.
24
of your search to locations near Rochester, New York, didn't
25
you?
And that day you specifically reviewed the results

D. Kron - Direct
24
A.
Yes, I would have.
Q.
In other words, what you were interested in would be among
the responses you got, and because you were a Monroe County
Sheriff's deputy in the State of New York, you were most
interested in the results of that search that were in or near
the City of Rochester, New York, correct?
A.
would be more accurate.
Q.
Okay.
10
A.
It was, and for operational reasons.
11
Q.
When you say "operational reasons", that means a follow-up
12
to the results so that you could potentially locate where the
13
hit had come from to get an IP address that would lead to a
14
search warrant that would lead to a search of the -- of the
15
location from which the hit came from, correct?
16
A.
17
further away it was the location we were looking at
18
geographically the more difficult, of course, it is for us to
19
investigate just due to the distance.
Well, correct, in or near the County of Monroe, I think
Okay.
And was that for jurisdictional reasons?
I'm not sure I understand all that.
20
THE COURT:
21
THE WITNESS:
However, you know,
Where it came from or where it went to?

Where we would be responding to to --
22
to investigate the suspicious -- the files of child pornography
23
or believed child pornography or videos, that sort of thing.
24
25
For example, we wouldn't investigate a case that came

out of Miami, Florida because my boss wouldn't approve us all

D. Kron - Direct
25
driving to Miami, Florida.
So the further away it is, the more
difficult it became for us.
BY MR. PARRINELLO:
Q.
How about Connecticut?
A.
In all likelihood, no.
Q.
How about Pennsylvania?
A.
We have done investigations in Northern Pennsylvania, yes.
Q.
In that time period -- so you would have to get -- in
terms of results that you got, using the methodology you
10
described, LimeWire, to Gnutella, using the search term in the
11
hits or results you got, you would sort them out in -- as far
12
as locations, correct?
13
A.
14
Monroe County.
15
Q.
Monroe County?
16
A.
Correct.
17
Q.
Okay.
18
is you could ID what they'd call an IP address of the person or
19
persons offering the file for copying purposes, correct?
20
A.
21
repeat that for me.
22
Q.
Okay.
23
A.
Yes, sir.
24
Q.
And let's limit it to Monroe County.
25
A.
Okay.
I was primarily interested in locations in and around
One of the things that you did is in this process,
I'm sorry.
You're going to -- you're going to have to
Sure.
Sure.
When you're getting the results --

D. Kron - Direct
26
Q.
Because that's what your concentration was about?
A.
Right.
Q.
The thing that you would get, you wouldn't get a name and
address, would you?
A.
No, sir.
Q.
What you would get as a result would be what they call an
IP address, correct?
A.
That is correct.
Q.
Okay.
And that IP address would be connected to a
10
location offering the file, correct?
11
A.
12
Q.
And on March 13th, 2008, as you were conducting your
13
investigation, you identified files being shared by IP address
14
74.34.196.66, correct?
15
A.
16
is the correct IP.
17
Q.
18
where the -- where the address was that was offering the files
19
for coping?
20
A.
The physical address?
21
Q.
Yes.
22
A.
The numerical address, no, sir, we couldn't make that
23
point.
24
Q.
Or the name or persons that was associated with that IP?
25
A.
That's correct, we could not.
I can't say for sure without reviewing my report if that
Okay.
It sounds correct.
And with that information alone, you could not tell

D. Kron - Direct
Okay.
27
Q.
On that day and associated with that IP address,
there were numerous files that had search terms with -- I'm
sorry -- there were numerous files with search terms that were
consistent with child pornography, correct?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And did you download those files?
A.
I downloaded some of the files, as I recall.
Q.
And from viewing the downloaded -- or from viewing the
internet or the downloaded files, you made some determination
10
that some of the files that emanated from that IP address, that
11
74 IP address, were videos of children under 17 engaged in
12
sexual acts, correct?
13
A.
Correct.
14
Q.
Now, what standard did you use in making a determination
15
that what appeared on the downloaded files on March 13th, 2008,
16
from that IP address --
17
A.
Okay.
18
Q.
-- were indeed under the age of 17?
19
What did you use?
20
A.
Just by visually inspecting those files, watching the
21
videos, looking at the pictures, and seeing if they appeared,
22
to me, to be under 17 years of age, and engaged in sexual acts.
23
Q.
Was it clear that they were engaging in sexual acts?
24
A.
I don't recall the specific files on that date, but I
25
would not have continued my investigation had they not.
So

D. Kron - Direct
28
clearly there was something there that made me believe that,
yes.
Q.
the name of the term -- but you had no formal training with
respect to determining the age of somebody around the age of
17, did you?
A.
No, I had no formal training.
Q.
And with respect to these downloaded files on March 13th,
2008, did you -- did you share that information -- the
Okay.
But you had no formal training -- I don't even know
10
downloaded images, did you share that with anybody else asking
11
any professional opinion concerning the ages or age of the
12
children -- strike that -- age or ages of the individuals
13
engaging in sexual acts?
14
A.
15
that, no.
16
Q.
17
than determining that the images came from the -- the territory
18
area, area of Monroe County, could you tell whether or not any
19
of those images had crossed state lines?
20
A.
I don't understand the question.
21
Q.
Just by looking at the picture.
22
A.
At which point?
23
Q.
Yeah.
24
A.
Or at any point in time?
25
Q.
During your download.
No, I don't believe I would have.
Okay.
I would have not done
Now, at that stage before going any further, other
Could I tell if --
You mean during my download?

D. Kron - Direct
29
A.
No, and it's my belief that they would not have crossed
state lines.
Q.
The ones that you downloaded?
A.
The ones I downloaded, right.
Q.
And are you as certain as the statement you made it was
your belief that they did not cross state lines, that is the
images you downloaded?
A.
Okay.
Q.
Are you of the same firm belief that they had not crossed
10
international boundaries?
11
A.
During my download?
12
Q.
Yes.
13
A.
As they were downloaded from the IP address you just
14
mentioned to me, I have no reason to believe they crossed
15
international boundaries.
16
Q.
17
the images, through the process you've described, there is a
18
protocol or methodology to identify the actual address from
19
which those downloaded images came, correct?
20
A.
That is correct, yes, sir.
21
Q.
Okay.
22
IP address, you then put that IP address into ARIN or MaxMind,
23
correct?
24
A.
That's correct.
25
Q.
And ARIN is an acronym for American Registry for Internet
Now, once you -- on March 13th, 2008, once you downloaded
And correct me if I'm wrong, is once you have the

D. Kron - Direct
30
Numbers, correct?
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
Now, and MaxMind ID'd the city and state of the IP
address, correct?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And by putting that IP -- by putting that IP address into
ARIN, did you do that on March 13th, 2008?
A.
sometimes use MaxMind.
I don't recall.
Okay.
I will -- I will sometimes use ARIN or

There are times that I would use both.
10
Q.
But on March 13th, 2008, it's safe to say you used
11
one or the other, or both, with respect to the IP address
12
74.34.196.66, correct?
13
A.
That's correct.
14
Q.
And the purpose of doing that -- am I correct, the purpose
15
of putting that IP address into one of the those web sites was
16
to find out which internet service provider was handling that
17
IP address, correct?
18
A.
19
owned that IP address.
20
Q.
21
that the internet service provider handling that IP address was
22
Frontier Communications, correct?
23
A.
24
giving me is what's reflected in my report.
25
Q.
Yes, which internet service provider essentially leased or
And when IP 74.34.196.66 was put into ARIN, you discovered
Correct.
Yes, sir.
And I'm assuming that the IP address you're

D. Kron - Direct
A.
Okay.
Q.
I can assure you I'm not misrepresenting you.
A.
Okay.
Q.
The address.
A.
Thank you.
Q.
Okay.
31
Then, yes, that's correct.
I appreciate that.
And I took that exactly from your report.
MS. MILLER:
Your Honor, just to clarify the record
here so that Mr. Parrinello is not testifying, perhaps we could
refresh the witness's recollection with his report.
10
MR. PARRINELLO:
Oh, sure.
Absolutely.
11
THE COURT:
12
We'll take a five-minute recess.
13
BY MR. PARRINELLO:
14
Q.
15
did I put a 1 there?
16
A.
You did not.
17
Q.
I'm sorry.
18
Ms. Miller, in front of you.
19
is?
20
A.
21
that was completed during the course of this investigation.
22
Q.
23
the IP address that I've been using.
24
document, sir, and if you want I'll read off the IP address
25
I've been using, and read it to yourself, and then let us know
Still, Deputy Kron, I have marked as Defense Exhibit 1 --
Yes, sir.
Defense Exhibit 1, at the request of

Can you tell the Judge what that
This is a -- a copy of my original crime report
And one of the issues that's come up is the accuracy of

Would you look at that

D. Kron - Direct
whether or not that document refreshes your recollection that
the IP address that I have been using is accurate in terms of
the IP address that you obtained during your downloading
process on March 13th, 2008?
74.34.196.66.
refresh your recollection?
A.
Yes, that is the correct IP address.
Q.
Thank you.
32
The number I've been using is: IP
Would you look at the document?
Now, does that
You could just set that aside.
10
And I believe we're at the stage of by using ARIN or
11
MaxMind, and inputting the IP address that we've just referred
12
to, that you determined Frontier was the internet service
13
provider for that IP address, correct?
14
A.
Correct.
15
Q.
And the next process, and I'm talking about process, is
16
that you would obtain -- based upon your receipt of images from
17
that IP address, and knowing that Frontier was the service
18
provider, to obtain a subpoena that would be served on Frontier
19
in order to obtain the name and address of the subscriber to
20
that IP address, am I correct?
21
A.
You are correct, yes.
22
Q.
And the other thing, just in an abundance of caution,
23
which you did in this case, once you found out the name and
24
address of the person who was the subscriber to that IP
25
address, you would then double-check that with the DMV records,

D. Kron - Direct
33
correct?
A.
internet-related, so I'm trying to understand what the question
just was.
Q.
correct?
A.
Yes, we would -- we would --
Q.
Not we, sir; you?
A.
Well, yes.
Of the -- DMV records certainly don't reflect anything
Well, could confirm that that person's name and address is
When I say "we", I mean generally speaking.
10
But, yes, I would check DMV records, among other records, to
11
determine that the name of the subscriber corresponded with
12
other public records.
13
Q.
14
Missing and Exploited Children to run an Accurint, a data
15
manning company, correct?
16
A.
Accurint, yes.
17
Q.
A-C-C-U -- is it R or V?
18
A.
R-I-N-T.
19
Q.
R-I-N-T.
20
And the next step would be to use the National Center For
Okay.
And did you do that?
21
A.
Yes, I believe I did.
22
Q.
Okay.
23
based upon the information you had gathered, the name and
24
address, you would then apply, fill out an application for a
25
search warrant to search the premises that -- that Frontier had
And once that was done, then what you would do is,

D. Kron - Direct
34
supplied, right?
A.
Correct, yes.
Q.
Now, on March 13th, 2008, did you go through -- following
that date, did you go through all those steps which led you to
obtain a search warrant for the -- for Nick Skvarla, 165
Forgham, F-O-R-G-H-A-M, Road, Rochester, New York?
A.
Yes, yes, I did.
Q.
And that search warrant that you -- your application that
you made was September 10th, 2008; is that right?
10
A.
I believe so, yes, sir.
11
Q.
That's approximately six months after you had acquired the
12
images from Mr. Skvarla's computer on March 13th, 2008, wasn't
13
it?
14
A.
That is approximately six months, yes.
15
Q.
And you executed -- that search warrant was executed on
16
September 11th, 2008, wasn't it?
17
A.
Yes, it was.
18
Q.
And Mr. Skvarla was arrested on September 11th, 2008,
19
correct?
20
A.
Yes, sir.
21
Q.
What took so long?
22
MS. MILLER:
23
THE COURT:
24
THE WITNESS:
25
I believe it was September, 2008.
Objection, Your Honor.
Relevance.
Overruled.
A number of things.
I have other assignments.
I have caseload.

D. Kron - Direct
35
BY MR. PARRINELLO:
Q.
What were your other assignments during that period?
A.
I don't recall, sir.
I don't recall specifically but I have one case at a time.
have other duties for starters.
This is four and a half years ago.

I
Additionally, as I recall, some of the paperwork that was
in the subpoena that was submitted was returned with erroneous
information and had to be resubmitted.
Q.
But that was in September, wasn't it?
10
A.
What was in September?
11
Q.
The erroneous address that you executed the initial search
12
warrant on was in September of 2008?
13
A.
14
recall.
15
Q.
Okay.
16
A.
Um-hum.
17
Q.
-- you did not expedite that process in order to identify
18
Mr. Skvarla's address and execute a search warrant and seize
19
his hardware, computer hard drive, DVDs; what you did is
20
instead of expediting that process because you were convinced
21
on March 13th, 2008, that -- that from Mr. Skvarla's address
22
that's where the images that you received on March 13th, 2008,
23
had come from, correct?
24
A.
25
knew they were in the City of Rochester within 20 miles with
I don't recall.
That was another case entirely.
I don't
But what you did is after March 13th, 2008 --
I didn't know where they came from on March 13th, 2008.

D. Kron - Direct
36
85 percent accuracy.
Until I received a subpoena I had no idea
Mr. Skvarla or his address was involved.
Q.
And that took six months?
A.
A lot of things took six months.
recall, Mr. Skvarla was getting married and that posed some
problems because his family was coming into town.
was an issue.
I don't recall exactly.
Q.
And was that because you didn't want to embarrass him?
10
A.
No, because he had posted online where his family was
11
staying.
12
created -- it could have created quite a circus if the whole
13
family was in town for a wedding.
14
Q.
So I see.
15
A.
So we were trying to be considerate actually to the
16
timing.
17
Q.
18
continuing to download child pornography to his computer, were
19
you?
20
A.
21
addresses downloading child pornography.
22
precedence over the other.
23
earlier, I'm one guy doing it.
24
Q.
25
in terms of expediting this process regarding Mr. Skvarla,
I had a caseload.
As I
So that also
That actually stalled us perhaps a couple weeks.
They were coming into town.
And it would have
So you weren't worried about whether or not he was
At any given time I may have five to ten individuals IP
I see.
None takes the
I do the best I can.
As we said
So there was a lack of manpower that backed you up

D. Kron - Direct
right?
A.
expedite, sure.
Q.
Did you request it?
A.
Request more manpower?
Q.
Yeah.
A.
No, I didn't.
Q.
Okay.
you did on March 13th, 2008, correct?
37
Had there been more manpower, we may have been able to
Now, you did the same thing on April 4th, 2008, as
10
A.
Which same thing is that, sir?
11
Q.
That is to put the search word in, the search words and to
12
receive images in -- at that IP address.
13
A.
14
session on that day.
15
Q.
That was April 4th, 2008, right?
16
A.
I believe so.
17
Q.
You did another session on May 7th, 2008, correct?
18
A.
I believe so.
19
Q.
You did another session on July 8, 2008, correct?
20
A.
I believe so.
21
Q.
You did another session on July 10th, 2008, didn't you?
22
A.
How many does that make, sir?
Yes, I did another session, as we might call it, download
23
THE COURT:
What do you mean by session?
24
THE WITNESS:
25
Who are you asking, sir?
Session -- I'm sorry.

D. Kron - Direct
THE COURT:
MR. PARRINELLO:
He's asked the question.

That is to, Your Honor, what I've
described so far is that the deputy would go online using a
version of LimeWire and log onto the Gnutella network using
search terms and -- with like 12 YO, 9 YO?
THE COURT:
MR. PARRINELLO:
THE COURT:
MR. PARRINELLO:
10
THE COURT:
PHTC (sic).
This would all be called a session.

He repeated that each time on these
Okay.
I understand that.
I just
didn't -- the word session.
13
14
Right.
various dates.
11
12
38
MR. PARRINELLO:
I misspoke.
It was -- he repeated
the same process.
15
THE COURT:
Okay.
16
MR. PARRINELLO:
17
THE COURT:
18
MR. PARRINELLO:
Session means process or whatever.

Yes, sir.
Okay.
That we've already covered.
19
BY MR. PARRINELLO:
20
Q.
21
2008; April 4th, the second time, 2008; third time was May 7th,
22
2008; the fourth time was July 8th, 2008; and the last time was
23
July 10th, 2008, correct?
24
A.
I believe so.
25
Q.
And so would it be safe to say as far as the IP address
Without going over it each day, but it was March 13th,

D. Kron - Direct
39
that we've been speaking of that you've confirmed, that you
were conducting an investigation for prosecution to be brought
in Monroe County, New York, from March 13th, 2008, through
July 10th, 2008, utilizing the process we've talked about; is
that a fair statement?
A.
Yes, I would say that's a fair statement.
Q.
And you understood what I said that you were doing that,
conducting that investigation --
A.
Um-hum.
10
Q.
-- for a prosecution of Mr. Skvarla to be brought in
11
Monroe County, New York, correct?
12
A.
Correct.
13
Q.
Not by the federal government, but by the state
14
government, correct?
15
A.
That would be correct, yes.
16
THE COURT:
Were you aware what the federal
17
government was doing at the time?
18
THE WITNESS:
19
THE COURT:
20
23
24
25
Were you aware what the FBI was doing at
this point, as far as your investigation?
21
22
I'm sorry, sir?
THE WITNESS:
At the time I was not affiliated with
the FBI.
THE COURT:
Okay.
So you had no idea they were doing
the same thing you were doing -- well, similar -THE WITNESS:
Yeah.
Similar types of investigations

D. Kron - Direct
40
I was aware they were doing that, yes, sir.
BY MR. PARRINELLO:
Q.
when you turned over the results of the search to Special Agent
Meyers; isn't that right?
A.
that time.
Q.
In the Skvarla matter?
A.
That's correct.
The FBI never got into the Skvarla case until much later
I would say that's correct.
10
MS. MILLER:
They were not involved at
Just to clarify
11
the federal agents that we're talking about here that became
12
involved.
13
MR. PARRINELLO:
14
THE COURT:
15
MR. PARRINELLO:
ICE.
I'm sorry.
ICE.
ICE.
We're getting to that, Your
16
Honor, in a moment.
17
BY MR. PARRINELLO:
18
Q.
19
from Skvarla computer, you went to the DA's office and informed
20
them you had a child pornography hit in the Rochester area,
21
correct?
On March 14th, the day after the first download reaction
22
MS. MILLER:
23
THE COURT:
24
THE WITNESS:
25
Relevance.
Overruled.
I did go to the district attorney's
office and obtain a subpoena.

D. Kron - Direct
41
BY MR. PARRINELLO:
Q.
No, I'm not talking about that.
A.
Okay.
I'm not sure what you're asking me then.
Q.
Okay.
On March 14th, 2008 --
A.
Okay.
Q.
-- you went to the DA's office and you first informed them
that you had a child pornography hit in the Rochester area,
correct?
A.
I don't recall contacting the DA's office and informing
10
them of that.
11
Q.
Perhaps if you look at your report.
12
A.
That would be great.
13
number?
14
Q.
15
your report --
16
A.
Okay.
17
Q.
-- in terms of what you did.
18
A.
There is no reference here to March 14th, 2008.
19
Q.
Okay.
20
A.
I don't recall when the subpoena came back.
21
Q.
The subpoena came back in September, 2008, but you had the
22
address in July of 2008, correct?
23
A.
24
indicating the address.
25
occurred, but I can tell you I wouldn't have the address absent
Which page?
Do you have a page
No, I think they're the March 14th, 2008, as designated in
You got the Skvarla address in July, 2008, correct?
I would not have the address until the subpoena came back
I don't recall which date which

D. Kron - Direct
a subpoena.
Q.
Sir, the Defense Exhibit 1, that is your report?
A.
This is a copy of my report, yes, sir.
Q.
Okay.
7/10/08 --
A.
Okay.
Q.
-- did you -- did you fax subpoenas to the district
attorney's office to be served on Frontier for the dates
March 13th, April 4th, May 7th, July 8th, and July 10th, five
And on July 10th, on the third page under
10
subpoenas?
11
A.
12
issued to me by the district attorney's office; and yes, the
13
subpoenas did cover those five dates.
14
Q.
15
information as a result of those subpoenas that the address
16
came back, that IP address from the serve provider, as Nick
17
Skvarla, 165 Forgham Road, Rochester, New York?
18
A.
Correct.
19
Q.
Okay.
20
A.
Yes, sir.
21
Q.
Now, you waited until September of 2008, to apply for a
22
search warrant, correct?
23
A.
May I refer to this in my report?
24
Q.
Sure.
25
No, I faxed the subpoena directly to Frontier that were
Okay.
And subsequently the -- you got subscriber
And that was in July of 2008, right?
You can refresh your recollection.
On page 3, 9/10/2008.
42

D. Kron - Direct
43
A.
Yes, I --
Q.
Does that refresh your recollection?
A.
On 9/10/2008, I did obtain a search warrant, yes.
Q.
And so at least two months had passed before you even
attempted to get a search warrant after you had Skvarla's name
and address, correct?
A.
Correct.
Q.
And the very next day is when you and others from the
Monroe County Sheriff's Department executed the search warrant?
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
Were there any FBI agents involved in the search?
12
A.
No, none.
13
Q.
Any ICE agents?
14
A.
No, none.
15
Q.
Any federal agents at all?
16
A.
No, there weren't.
17
Q.
And when you arrested the -- Mr. Skvarla, you took him --
18
you didn't take him to federal court, did you?
19
A.
No, sir.
20
Q.
You took him to the Gates Town Court, and Gates Town Court
21
is in Gates, New York in Monroe County, New York, correct?
22
A.
I don't believe I took him anywhere.
23
Q.
Do you -- do you know that he was taken to Gates for
24
arraignment?
25
A.
I don't recall where he was taken.
If I -- if I recall

D. Kron - Direct
44
correctly, they were Town of Chili charges.
It's possible a
Gates judge did an arraignment because it is an adjoining town.
I was not with Mr. Skvarla at that time, so I don't know where
he was arraigned.
Q.
any federal court?
A.
No, not to my knowledge.
Q.
In September, right?
A.
That's correct.
10
Q.
And no federal authorities were involved with respect to
11
the investigation and identification and the search warrant --
12
subpoenas and the search warrant regarding Mr. Skvarla up to
13
September 11th, 2008, correct?
14
A.
Correct, no federal authorities were involved.
15
Q.
Okay.
16
Mr. Skvarla had been arrested?
17
A.
Okay.
18
Q.
Taken to a local town court, bail set, and he taken to
19
Monroe County Jail, correct?
20
A.
Correct.
21
Q.
Approximately four days later, there was a meeting at
22
about 2:30 in the afternoon on September 15th, 2008, where
23
members of the Monroe County Sheriff's Department, you
24
included, met with members of Monroe County District Attorney's
25
office and the United States Attorney's office, and also
And at least we have established that he was not taken to
And on September 15th of 2008, after he --

D. Kron - Direct
45
present was Special Agent Matt Meyer of ICE.
held at the Monroe County Sheriff's office, and it was decided
at that time that the case would be referred to ICE for further
investigation, correct?
MS. MILLER:
THE WITNESS:
MS. MILLER:
That meeting was
Objection.
I have no -At this point it feels as though counsel
is both leading and testifying while on direct.
agent could testify.
10
THE COURT:
Perhaps the
Overruled.
11
BY MR. PARRINELLO:
12
Q.
Do you remember such a meeting?
13
A.
I have no recollection of any such meeting, no, sir.
14
Q.
Do you --
15
THE COURT:
Have you reviewed your report?
16
THE WITNESS:
17
THE COURT:
I have, sir, yes.
Okay.
18
BY MR. PARRINELLO:
19
Q.
Would you look at page 6, please?
20
A.
Yes, sir.
21
Q.
And on page 6, if you read page 6 and the reference to
22
September 15th, 2008, read that to yourself, please.
23
A.
Okay.
24
Q.
And who's the reporting officer on that -- in -- of that
25
report?

D. Kron - Direct
46
A.
That would be myself.
Q.
And on September 15th, 2008, do you recall being in the
company of Special Agent Matt Meyer of ICE?
A.
I do.
Q.
At the Monroe County Sheriff's property clerk office?
A.
I do.
Q.
And at that time, sir, did you authorize that the --
Mr. Skvarla's computers, hard drives, CDs and DVDs that were
taken from his residence should be released to Special Agent
10
Meyer for forensic examination?
11
A.
Yes, I -- that is notated here.
12
Q.
Okay.
13
A.
And myself and --
14
Q.
I'm sorry.
15
A.
Would you like me to continue?
16
Q.
Yeah, sure.
17
A.
You described it as a meeting amongst many people.
18
with SA Matt Meyer at the property office to turn over
19
property.
20
describing.
21
Q.
I'm going to get to that right now.
22
A.
Okay.
23
Q.
Now, before turning that -- you were not, as a deputy,
24
authorized to turn those materials over to Special Agent Meyer
25
without some permission from your superior, correct?
You were --
I met
That's not quite the meaning I believe you were
Great.

D. Kron - Direct
47
A.
No, that's not correct, sir.
Q.
Now, this state investigation of Mr. Skvarla, do you know
how it ended?
A.
I don't understand your question.
Q.
Did the state investigation of Mr. Skvarla continue on to
a trial?
A.
It did not, no.
Q.
Do you know how it ended?
A.
No, I don't know how it ended.
10
It ended when federal charges -- it was determined federal
11
charges would be lodged, if you will, against Mr. Skvarla.
12
Q.
13
Mr. Skvarla -- do you know -- do you know that federal charges
14
in the form of a criminal complaint were lodged against
15
Mr. Skvarla on March 25th, 2009, in the form of a criminal
16
complaint?
17
A.
18
Mr. Skvarla, no.
19
Q.
20
state prosecution never took place, right?
21
A.
22
you're referring to?
23
Q.
24
motions, hearings, ultimately a trial?
25
A.
Well, federal charges weren't lodged against
I don't know what day the federal government charged
Okay.
And you're saying that as far as you know, the
Describe prosecution.
You mean to trial?
Is that what
Well, going in front of the state superior court judge,
Yes.
To my knowledge, none of that took place with

D. Kron - Direct
48
Mr. Skvarla on the stateside, that's correct.
Q.
state charges that were brought against Mr. Skvarla, there were
two charges brought, and correct me if I'm wrong, one of them
was possessing a sexual performance by a child pursuant to New
York Penal Law Section 263.16; and the second charge was
promoting a sexual performance by a child pursuant to New York
Penal Law Section 263.15.
two charges lodged against Mr. Skvarla?
And by the way, with respect to the state charges, the
Do you recall that those were the
10
A.
I do, yes.
11
Q.
And did it -- was it ever called to your attention that
12
those charges were submitted to a Monroe County grand jury
13
which returned a no cause for action or otherwise termed a no
14
bill?
15
A.
No, I don't -- know such knowledge of that.
16
Q.
Now, you were the lead investigator on the Skvarla matter
17
for the State of New York, correct?
18
A.
Correct.
19
Q.
Did you ever appear in front of a Monroe County grand
20
jury?
21
A.
22
did.
23
I did or not.
24
Q.
25
jury?
I don't recall appearing in front -- I don't believe I

Again, four years ago.
I can't say with any certainty if
Have you ever appeared in front of a Monroe County grand

D. Kron - Direct
49
A.
Many times.
Q.
And what you're saying is you don't recall whether in this
case you appeared in front of a Monroe County grand jury
regarding the state prosecution of Mr. Skvarla; is that what
you're telling the judge?
A.
That's what I'm telling the Judge, yes.
Q.
Deputy Kron, did you download from Mr. Skvarla's computer
child pornography on September 11th, 2007?
A.
I don't believe I did.
I would have to refer to my
10
notes -- excuse me -- my report.
11
Q.
Go ahead.
12
A.
No, sir, I do not believe I downloaded anything from
13
Mr. Skvarla on September 11th.
14
Q.
2007?
15
A.
2007?
16
Q.
Yes, sir.
17
A.
No, not to my knowledge.
18
Q.
Okay.
19
Mr. Skvarla's computer on May 9th, 2008?
20
A.
Again, may I refer to these dates?
21
Q.
Absolutely.
22
A.
You say May 9th, 2008; is that correct?
23
Q.
Yes, sir.
24
A.
No, sir, I did not.
25
Q.
How about on April 2nd, 2006, did you download from
Yes.
And did you download child pornography from

D. Kron - Direct
50
Mr. Skvarla's computer child pornography?
A.
Not to my knowledge, no.
Q.
Do you know what real time is?
A.
In what context are you using?
Q.
In the context of monitoring somebody's computer to
determine the source from which that computer received child
pornography.
A.
No, sir, I don't believe I'm familiar with that.
Q.
Are you acquainted with eavesdropping warrants?
10
A.
No, no, I'm not.
11
Q.
Pardon me?
12
A.
I familiar they exist.
13
eavesdropping warrant, no.
14
Q.
15
warrant in order to watch in real time the source of
16
Mr. Skvarla's source of the child pornography on his computer,
17
did you?
18
A.
No, I have not.
19
Q.
Do you know what a Wyoming Toolkit is?
20
A.
Yes, I'm familiar with a Wyoming Toolkit, somewhat.
21
Q.
And did you utilize Wyoming Toolkit?
22
A.
I never utilized Wyoming Toolkit.
23
Q.
Do you -- when you say you're acquainted with it, have you
24
ever utilized it?
25
A.
I've never written an
So in this case, you never applied for an eavesdropping
I've never used the Wyoming Toolkit, no.

D. Kron - Direct
51
Q.
Have you been trained with respect to use of a Wyoming
Toolkit?
A.
understand the concept.
to conduct peer-to-peer investigations.
know specifically how it operates or what -- what the -- what
software is used for the Wyoming Toolkit.
Q.
Wyoming Toolkit, do you know whether or not the use of such a
I don't know specifically what a Wyoming Toolkit is.
It's a -- it's a number of tools used

Beyond that, I don't
Do you know -- to the extent of your knowledge of the
10
kit can identify where an image is coming from?
11
A.
12
source from which it's downloaded.
13
Q.
14
you identified the source from which the images you downloaded
15
to be Mr. Skvarla's computer, correct?
16
A.
Well, an IP address and used by Mr. Skvarla, yes.
17
Q.
Okay.
18
investigation, was it one of your objectives to -- I'm sorry --
19
strike that.
20
It -- yes, it identifies the image as coming from the
And in this case, without the use of the Wyoming Toolkit,
In your -- in the process of the Skvarla
You said that this time lapse that occurred with
21
respect -- from March 13th, 2008, to the search and arrest on
22
September 11th, 2008, at that time that -- you explained that
23
as you being only one person involved and that you had a lot on
24
your plate, correct?
25
A.
I explained there were a number factors there that may

D. Kron - Direct
have caused that, but yes, that is one factor.
Q.
investigations that you were conducting in the Monroe County
area, along with the Skvarla investigation during that time
period; is that correct?
A.
Yes, that would have been.
Q.
And with respect to -- can you estimate for the Judge
between March 15th, 2008, and September 11th, 2008, how many
other investigations you were conducting concerning child
10
52
Now, with respect to that statement, there were other
pornography -- child pornography in Monroe County?
11
Can you give us an estimate?
12
A.
It's difficult to say.
13
frame.
14
Q.
15
30 investigations, one of which would have been the Skvarla
16
investigation, do you know, sir, how many of those resulted in
17
prosecutions?
18
A.
19
material.
20
Q.
21
during that time period, including Mr. Skvarla, how many were
22
referred to the federal government?
23
A.
I have no idea.
24
Q.
Were any, other than Mr. Skvarla?
25
A.
Prior to Mr. Skvarla, many of these cases were prosecuted
Yes.
Perhaps 20, 30 during that time
And do you know, sir, whether or not of those 20 or
I don't know.
I don't know without reviewing that
Can you tell the Judge of that 20 or 30 investigations

D. Kron - Direct
53
federally.
Q.
Not prior.
A.
Okay.
Q.
To September 11th, 2008?
A.
Okay.
Q.
How many of those other investigations, other than
Mr. Skvarla, did you refer to the federal government?
A.
know how many were prosecuted during that time frame.
From March 15th, 2008?
I didn't refer any to the federal government.
I don't
And when
10
you say "prosecuted", as we can see, the federal system takes a
11
long time sometimes.
12
So there could have been many that were taken by the
13
federal government prior to March that were still in the stages
14
of prosecution.
15
So your question is very confusing.
How many were --
16
Q.
If it's confusing then let me try to ask it in a less
17
confusing way.
18
A.
Right.
19
Q.
Of the 20 or 30 investigations that you were participating
20
in from March 15th, 2008 --
21
A.
Right.
22
Q.
-- to September 11th, 2008, can you tell the Judge how
23
many of those individuals you arrested?
24
A.
How many of those investigations ended in arrest?
25
Q.
Ended in arrest in that time period.

D. Kron - Direct
A.
I don't know exactly.
one or two arrests a month, I believe, on the average.
Q.
One or two a month in that six months period, correct?
A.
I believe.
Q.
Okay.
approximately 12 arrests, right?
A.
it's hard to say.
month I made four arrests; in one month I made one arrest.
54
On the average, there were probably
I don't recall exactly.
That -- by multiplication that would be
But if you're using the two figure, yes.

It's hard to say.
If it was --
In some months -- in one
10
cannot average it out for you.
11
Q.
12
that time period --- did you -- were -- ended up being
13
prosecuted in the federal system; do you know?
14
A.
There's a lot of variables.
How many of those arrests that you did make -- this at
I don't know.
15
MS. MILLER:
16
THE COURT:
Objection, calls for speculation.

If he knows.
17
BY MR. PARRINELLO:
18
Q.
If you know.
19
A.
I don't know.
20
Q.
Okay.
21
federal grand jury?
22
A.
I don't recall.
23
Q.
In any of the other cases that you-- in that time period,
24
March 15th, 20 --
25
A.
I don't even --
Now, in the Skvarla case, did you testify in
I don't believe so.
In that time period, I don't know, sir.
During that six

D. Kron - Direct
months, I don't know what I went to the grand jury on.
Q.
When were you cross-designated?
A.
That would have been approximately May of 2009, if by
cross-designated you mean affiliated with the FBI.
Q.
Yes, sir.
A.
That would be May, 2009, roughly.
Q.
And you moved physically from the sheriffs department to
the federal building?
A.
For the most part, yes.
10
Q.
And were you involved in that period of time in child
11
pornography investigations?
12
A.
55
Yes.
13
MS. MILLER:
14
THE COURT:
Objection, relevance.
Overruled.
15
BY MR. PARRINELLO:
16
Q.
17
in Virginia giving them Mr. Skvarla's IP address and requesting
18
whether or not you could download known child porn images from
19
the defendant's computer?
20
A.
No, I know of no such thing.
21
Q.
Now, the images that you downloaded, using the system
22
we've talked about, from Mr. Skvarla's computer, do you, of
23
your own personal knowledge, know whether any of those images
24
crossed state lines?
25
A.
Now, did there come a time that you made contact with ICE
I believe based on the content some of those videos -- and

D. Kron - Direct
56
let me clarify:
You keep saying images, it was images and
videos, I think.
I don't remember which one, which date, but
just to clarify.
I believe there were videos that were clearly
foreign videos that I believe to have originated outside the
United States.
Q.
and videos on plaintiff's computer, were they -- where those
particular images came from, the location?
A.
The ones that actually resided on Mr. Skvarla's computer?
10
Q.
Yeah.
11
A.
Is that what you're asking me?
12
Q.
Yes, sir.
13
A.
I do not know where they came from.
14
Q.
Ever heard of the term "shortest path"?
15
A.
Perhaps.
16
not sure in what context you're referring to.
17
Q.
18
internet standard, isn't it true that while searching a
19
peer-to-peer network, the travel of images take the fastest and
20
closest source possible?
21
A.
I don't know that to be true, no.
22
Q.
Isn't it true that the images and videos are more likely
23
to come from -- from within the state than out of the state?
24
A.
25
has nothing to do with the path.
And do you know, sir, the location from which the images
I don't know.
I've heard the term used.
I'm
With respect to shortest path, as far as the -- an
No, no, not at all.
That depends on the availability.
It

D. Kron - Direct
Q.
September 11th, 2007; May 9th, 2008; April 2nd, 2006 in which
you said that you did not download those videos or images, do
you know where those images came from -- strike that.
And these -- and these dates that I read to you:
Do you know whether or not those images appeared on
Mr. Skvarla's hard drive?
A.
saying?
Q.
Yes, sir.
10
A.
You just established I did not.
11
Q.
You didn't download them?
12
A.
I didn't download them.
13
Q.
Do you know whether they appeared on his hard drive?
14
The images that I didn't download; is that what you're
MS. MILLER:
Objection, which images?
I think that
15
the deputy has testified that he didn't download on a
16
particular date.
So --
17
MR. PARRINELLO:
Those are Counts 1, 2 and 3 of the
18
superseding indictment, Your Honor.
19
BY MR. PARRINELLO:
20
Q.
21
seen -- have you seen the superseding indictment?
22
A.
I don't know if I have.
23
Q.
And with respect to the images referred to in the
24
superseding indictment, do you know where those images came
25
from to Mr. Skvarla's computer?
You didn't download the images referred to -- have you
57

D. Kron - Direct
58
A.
I don't know which images you're referring to.
Q.
Let me show you Defense Exhibit 2 marked for
identification.
superseding indictment that is being prosecuted in this court.
A.
Okay.
Q.
Do you see Counts 1, 2 and 3 on page 2?
A.
I do, yes, sir.
Q.
And do you recognize the dates that I read to you that I
asked you about previously that you said you didn't download?
Sir, I would represent to you that that is the
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
And, sir, do you know where any of those child pornography
12
images came from to get onto Mr. Skvarla's computer?
13
A.
These ones that I know nothing about?
14
Q.
Yes.
15
A.
I don't know how to answer that, sir.
16
about files that I know nothing about.
17
downloads.
18
Q.
19
and how they got onto Mr. Skvarla's computer; is that your
20
answer?
21
A.
22
yes, I do not how they got there.
23
Q.
Or where they came from?
24
A.
Having never seen them, of course not, no.
25
Q.
Okay.
You're asking me
These were not my
Is your answer that you don't know where they came from
Assuming there were downloads that day unbeknownst to me,
Have you ever received a pen register?

D. Kron - Direct
59
A.
No, sir, I haven't.
Q.
Do you know what a pen register trap and trace is?
A.
Somewhat, yes.
Q.
And at no time with respect to Frontier did you apply for
a pen register trap and trace to be placed on Mr. Skvarla's
computer, did you?
A.
No, that's correct, I did not.
8
9
MR. PARRINELLO:
Excuse me, Your Honor.
BY MR. PARRINELLO:
10
Q.
Deputy Kron, with respect to images and/or videos that you
11
did download on those five dates that we talked about, all you
12
know about is that they came from Mr. Skvarla's computer to
13
your computer, correct?
14
A.
His IP address to my computer, yes.
15
Q.
And as far as where they came from to get onto
16
Mr. Skvarla's computer, you don't know where they came from, do
17
you?
18
A.
That is correct, I don't.
19
20
MR. PARRINELLO:
more questions.
21
THE COURT:
22
MS. MILLER:
23
few issues.
24
present.
25
Your Honor, thank you very much.
How long are you going to be?

I don't know.
I'd like to clear up a
Certainly not the two hours that we've taken to
Perhaps 15 to 20 minutes.
MR. PARRINELLO:
I object to that reference to the
No

D. Kron - Cross
time I took, but I'll --
2
3
60
THE COURT:
All right.
Why don't we take a
five-minute break.
THE COURT:
(Off the record discussion.)
THE COURT:
MS. MILLER:
Sorry for the delay here.
Ms. Miller, you're up.

Thank you, Your Honor.
CROSS EXAMINATION
10
BY MS. MILLER:
11
Q.
12
enforcement version of LimeWire?
13
A.
That is correct.
14
Q.
And that law enforcement version of LimeWire utilized the
15
Gnutella network --
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
-- is that correct?
18
Deputy Kron, you testified that you had used a law
Is it also correct that you testified about other
19
peer-to-peer file sharing programs including BearShare,
20
FrostWire, Shareaza, Kazaa; is that correct?
21
A.
Yes, that is correct.
22
Q.
And to your knowledge, do all of those file sharing
23
software programs also utilize the Gnutella network?
24
A.
They do, yes.
25
Q.
Is it possible then that you, as a member of law

D. Kron - Cross
61
enforcement, using a LimeWire program, are able to download
images from individuals using some of those other peer-to-peer
file sharing software program?
A.
network for protocol.
Q.
the law enforcement version, had you used that software program
prior to March of 2008?
A.
Yes, I have.
10
Q.
Was that software program, to your knowledge, used by
11
other members of law enforcement?
12
A.
Yes, they're compatible.
Okay.
They all use the same Gnutella
And the version of LimeWire that you were using,
Yes, it was.
13
MR. PARRINELLO:
14
THE COURT:
15
BY MS. MILLER:
16
Q.
17
accurate?
Objection.
Overruled.
Had you found that version of LimeWire to be previously
18
MR. PARRINELLO:
19
THE COURT:
20
Overruled.
21
THE WITNESS:
Objection, foundation.
Well, it's based on his experience.
It had been used by the law enforcement
22
for a while, and in my experience, it worked effectively.
23
BY MS. MILLER:
24
Q.
25
specifically on March 13th, of 2008, correct?
Okay.
You testified that you had downloaded images

D. Kron - Cross
A.
Correct.
Q.
And you had identified some of those images as what you
believed to be child pornography?
A.
Images and videos, yes.
Q.
Okay.
viewing images and videos of child pornography?
A.
Yes.
Q.
But up to and prior to March of 2008, approximately how
many images and videos of child pornography had you seen?
62
And those -- and you've previously had experience
10
A.
Prior to March of 2008, I've been doing these types of
11
investigations for approximately probably eight or nine months
12
at that point, in the thousands somewhere.
13
Q.
14
images were child pornography?
15
A.
Okay.
And were you comfortable in determining that those
Yes.
16
MR. PARRINELLO:
17
THE COURT:
Objection to the form.
Restate your question.
18
BY MS. MILLER:
19
Q.
20
containing child pornography that you downloaded on March 13th,
21
2008?
22
A.
Yes, I did.
23
Q.
Now, you testified that you had obtained some information
24
or some erroneous information from Frontier; is that correct?
25
A.
In your training and experience, did you identify files as
That's correct.

D. Kron - Cross
63
Q.
What was that erroneous information?
A.
Basically it was served on Frontier for the IP address
that we've been discussing starting with 74.
response was received from Frontier identifying -- incorrectly
identifying the subscriber information.
Q.
information as being another individual living in Rochester,
New York, correct?
A.
Correct.
10
Q.
And you obtained a search warrant for that other address
11
in April of 2008, correct?
12
A.
Correct.
13
Q.
And it was at that time that you determined that that
14
information erroneous, correct?
15
A.
16
Q.
After that original search warrant was executed, did you
17
determine or did you observe IP address 74.34.196.66 offering
18
child pornography files after April of 2008?
19
A.
20
active on sharing files and pictures.
21
Q.
22
that you believed to be child pornography after April, 2008;
23
isn't that correct?
24
A.
That is correct.
25
Q.
And isn't it also correct that you downloaded on more than
A subpoena
And, in fact, Frontier identified the subscriber
Yes, after we served the warrant, the IP address was still
And, in fact, you downloaded additional images and videos

D. Kron - Cross
64
one date?
A.
address, yes.
Q.
And you testified that you sent new subpoenas to Frontier?
A.
I sent five new subpoenas, yes.
Q.
So, therefore, you -- is it correct that you sent one
subpoena for each download date?
A.
I misspoke.
Q.
Okay.
I believe it was a total of five dates from that IP
I sent multiple subpoenas for five dates.
And the response that came back for each of those
10
was Nicholas Skvarla?
11
A.
In all five cases, yes.
12
Q.
And what address was provided to you?
13
A.
165 Forgham Road.
14
Q.
In what town?
15
A.
Town of Greece.
16
Q.
Is that within Monroe County, New York?
17
A.
Yes, it is.
18
Q.
And you testified that, based upon that information, you
19
obtained a search warrant to search that premises, correct?
20
A.
That's correct, yes.
21
Q.
And you participated in that search?
22
A.
I did.
23
Q.
That search occurred at 165 Forgham Road in Rochester, New
24
York?
25
A.
It did, yes.

D. Kron - Cross
65
Q.
September 11th, 2008?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And, again, you were present on that date?
A.
I was.
Q.
Did you encounter anyone at the house on that date?
A.
Initially we encountered Mr. Skvarla.
Q.
Do you see Mr. Skvarla in the courtroom today?
A.
Yes, I do.
10
Q.
Would you please identify him based on his clothing and
11
where he is located?
12
A.
13
Mr. Parrinello in the suit tie, shoulder length hair, mustache
14
and beard.
15
And the search of that premises occurred on
He is the gentlemen seated over there next to Parrin --
MS. MILLER:
Your Honor, I would request that the
16
record reflect that Deputy Kron has identified the defendant.
17
BY MS. MILLER:
18
Q.
19
didn't you?
20
Deputy Kron, on that date you spoke with Mr. Skvarla,
MR. PARRINELLO:
21
suppression hearing.
22
scope of direct.
23
MS. MILLER:
24
THE COURT:
25
MS. MILLER:
Objection.
This is not a
It's irrelevant and it's outside the
Your Honor, I think -Sustained.

-- there was some discussion about the

D. Kron - Cross
66
file sharing software programs that were used.
I'm simply
trying to establish that the software program that was used,
while not the same that Deputy Kron was used, follows in line
with the previous testimony that Mr. Parrinello elicited by the
peer-to-peer file sharing networks.
MR. PARRINELLO:
It still doesn't answer my
objection.
we have had a suppression hearing; and it is irrelevant with
respect to the direct examination.
10
First of all, it's outside the scope; and secondly,
THE COURT:
11
BY MS. MILLER:
12
Q.
13
let me rephrase that.
14
Sustained.
Deputy Kron, did you -- you seized items -- excuse me --
On September 11th, 2008, you seized items of digital media
15
from 165 Forgham Road, didn't you?
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
And isn't it correct that those items included a custom
18
built desktop computer with a Western Digital hard drive?
19
A.
I believe so, yes.
20
Q.
You didn't participate in any forensic review of those
21
items, did you?
22
A.
No, the forensic examination was not conducted by myself.
23
Q.
Okay.
24
Immigration and Customs Enforcement, correct?
25
A.
And that investigation was conducted by members of
I believe so, yes.

D. Kron - Cross
MR. PARRINELLO:
Objection, move to strike, what he
believes; improper foundation.
THE COURT:
67
Just one second.
Well, just a yes or no
answer.
Overruled.
BY MS. MILLER:
Q.
that computer, correct?
A.
No, I don't.
10
Q.
And you don't know what files or other items, where those
11
files or items were located?
12
A.
That's correct.
13
Q.
Deputy Kron, you don't have any control over which of your
14
cases went federal or that were prosecuted on the stateside,
15
did you?
16
A.
No, I didn't and I don't.
17
Q.
And testifying today, you don't know why this case became
18
prosecuted federally?
19
A.
No, I don't know why.
20
Q.
Previous to this investigation had other of your cases
21
been prosecuted federally?
22
A.
Deputy Kron, you don't know today what others found on
Yes.
23
MR. PARRINELLO:
24
THE COURT:
25
MR. PARRINELLO:
Objection.
You opened the door on that.

Except, Your Honor, the basis of

D. Kron - Cross
68
them going federal could very well have been they had evidence
that the images had traveled in interstate commerce.
the difference.
That's
And if --
THE COURT:
Well, I'm going to overrule the
objection.
BY MS. MILLER:
Q.
and videos from the IP address that we've identified beginning
with the numbers 74, it was your testimony that they came to
Deputy Kron, on the five days that you downloaded images
10
85 percent certainty within Monroe County, correct?
11
A.
That is advertised by the company MaxMind, yes.
12
MR. PARRINELLO:
13
THE COURT:
Objection.
Overruled.
14
BY MS. MILLER:
15
Q.
16
videos, did you know where the user associated with IP address
17
beginning with the number 74 obtained those images and videos
18
from?
19
A.
No, at this time, I did not, no.
20
Q.
Based upon your training and experience, are you aware of
21
any software program that would allow you as an undercover
22
agent or officer to determine the source of an image or video
23
file during an undercover peer-to-peer file share software
24
program?
25
A.
At the time that you were downloading the images and
No, I know of no agency that's capable of doing that.

D. Kron - Cross
69
Q.
Turning back to the discussion about peer-to-peer file
sharing programs, you testified that you were able to focus
users that were from Monroe County; is that correct?
A.
In and around Monroe County, yes.
Q.
Were you able to see where other users were located?
A.
Yes, all the results that were turned to me were
identified geographically.
Q.
these search terms, would you see and -- and users coming from
Okay.
In your training and experience, when you used
10
other locations?
11
A.
Yes, multiple.
12
Q.
And, in fact, you would see users from worldwide
13
locations?
14
A.
Yes, all over the world.
15
Q.
Based upon your training and experience then, is it
16
possible to receive these types of images from users around the
17
world?
18
19
MR. PARRINELLO:
Objection, irrelevant.
It's a
hypothetical question; calls for speculation.
20
THE COURT:
21
MS. MILLER:
Is it possible, sustained.
Allow me to rephrase then, Your Honor.
22
BY MS. MILLER:
23
Q.
24
PTHC, and in using the search term PTHC, did you see users
25
sharing files containing that name from locations around the
You testified on direct that you used the search term

D. Kron - Cross
70
world?
A.
Yes, I did.
Q.
Deputy Kron, is there any difference between the
functionality of the law enforcement version of LimeWire you
used and the version of LimeWire or similar peer-to-peer file
sharing programs that would be used by a civilian user?
A.
first is we can see -- we, as law enforcement, can see
immediately where the other -- where the IP addresses are
Yeah.
Primarily there's two functions that differ.
The
10
geographically; and secondly, when we conduct downloads those
11
are what we call single source downloads, meaning that that
12
file, picture, video, what have you, will come entirety from
13
the IP address of our choosing.
14
Q.
15
law enforcement?
16
A.
17
IP address of interest does, in fact, possess child
18
pornography, and has the entire picture or the entire video or
19
a portion that does depict child pornography.
20
Q.
21
file sharing software program, do they receive all of their
22
files from one source?
23
A.
No, generally, while it is possible, it's very unlikely.
24
Q.
Why not?
25
A.
Because the way the software's designed there's something
And why do you use single source downloads as a member of
To confirm that the -- during the investigation that the
Now, a user, a non-law enforcement user of a peer-to-peer

D. Kron - Cross
71
called swarming.
picture it will download segments of that video or picture from
multiple users at the same time.
software faster and more efficient.
What that does when you download a video or
What that does is makes the
So if you download a three-minute song or video, let's
say, to download a portion of that three-minute video from ten
different people at the same time would make the downloads much
quicker, more efficient.
Q.
Deputy Kron, in your experience using these programs, do
10
users receive portions of files from more than one other user
11
sharing a particular file?
12
MR. PARRINELLO:
13
MS. MILLER:
Objection, irrelevant.
Your Honor, on direct there were a
14
number of questions about the use of and the operation of
15
peer-to-peer file sharing programs.
16
issue to the source of those, and I'm asking about Deputy
17
Kron's experience.
18
MR. PARRINELLO:
I think this is a key
This question elicits a speculative
19
answer that has nothing to do with this case.
We're talking
20
about the images on Mr. Skvarla's computer.
21
about segmentation, we're not talking about the possibility of
22
parts coming from other places.
23
he knows where the images came from, that -- that were on
24
Mr. Skvarla's computer.
25
it's completely speculative, and it's not relevant, Your Honor.
We're not talking
The question is whether or not
So this is completely hypothetical,

D. Kron - Redirect
THE COURT:
72
Sustained.
BY MS. MILLER:
Q.
Nicholas Skvarla, or the IP address that we've identified that
is associated with Nicholas Skvarla, were you able to determine
the number of users from which he received his images and
videos?
A.
resided on his computer at that time?
Deputy Kron, at the time that you downloaded images from
The number of sources from which he received his that
10
Q.
That were being shared to you.
11
A.
No, I don't know what sources provided them to his
12
computer system.
13
MS. MILLER:
Your Honor, if I could just have one
14
moment.
15
BY MS. MILLER:
16
Q.
17
the child pornography on his computer?
Deputy Kron, did Nicholas Skvarla tell you how he obtained
18
MR. PARRINELLO:
19
THE WITNESS:
20
THE COURT:
21
It's outside the scope of the direct exam.
22
Sustained.
23
MS. MILLER:
24
25
Objection, outside the scope.
Yes.
Wait a minute.
No further question, Your Honor.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. PARRINELLO:

D. Kron - Redirect
Q.
you did not know why Nicholas Skvarla's case went federal,
correct?
A.
Q.
Did you supply any information to the federal government
that you had proof that the images on Mr. Skvarla's computer
had come from other states?
Deputy Kron, on cross examination I believe that you said
8
9
10
MS. MILLER:
examination.
Objection, outside the scope of cross
There was no testimony as to conversations with
the government.
11
12
73
MR. PARRINELLO:
I think she opened the door as to
why it went federal, and could have been --
13
THE COURT:
I'll allow it.
There's no jury here.
14
BY MR. PARRINELLO:
15
Q.
Did you?
16
A.
No, I did not.
17
Q.
Okay.
18
government leading to Mr. Skvarla's case going federal that any
19
of the images that were transmitted from Mr. Skvarla's computer
20
had traveled internationally?
21
A.
22
were discussing here today.
23
that, a determination that they were international, I can't
24
say.
25
Q.
And did you supply any information to the federal
Only in that I supplied the videos and pictures that we

Whether or not they made, based on
But you yourself did not supply any information that you

D. Kron - Redirect
74
had determined that they had come from an international source,
did you?
A.
No, that's correct.
Q.
Okay.
testimony about that users -- I'm supposing users were used in
the sense of those people using child pornography, users got
their information from worldwide locations.
saying that on cross?
A.
No, sir.
10
Q.
Well, as best as my handwriting can tell me, but --
11
A.
I don't -- I don't know what that's in reference to.
12
Q.
Well, let me ask you this:
13
images on Mr. Skvarla's computer came from worldwide locations?
14
A.
Directly to his computer?
15
Q.
Yes.
16
A.
No, I can't say that I did.
17
Q.
And I believe your last answer, sir, on -- to a question
18
that Ms. Miller posed to you is in -- with respect to
19
Mr. Skvarla, that you do not know the sources from which the
20
child pornography on Mr. Skvarla's computer where it came from.
21
Is that what -- am I correct in saying that?
22
A.
Yeah, again, just to clarify the direct sources --
23
Q.
Yes.
24
A.
-- that brought it to his computer, no, sir, I don't.
25
You -- on cross examination, I believe there was
Are you quoting me?
MR. PARRINELLO:
Do you remember
Is that what that is?
Do you know whether any of the
Thank you.
No further questions.

D. Kron - Redirect
THE COURT:
All right.
(Witness excused.)
MR. PARRINELLO:
THE COURT:
MS. MILLER:
THE COURT:
MR. PARRINELLO:
75
Thank you, sir.
We rest, Your Honor.
Yeah.
Okay.
And the government rests.
Yes, Your Honor.

So I'll see you next Monday at 2:00.
Yes.
I've spoken to the Court
reporter and she's been gracious enough to indicate to me that
I would have the transcript before that because I'll need it in
10
the process of my summations.
11
THE COURT:
Okay.
12
MR. PARRINELLO:
And we also have a renewal of our
13
Rule 29 which I make verbally now.
14
written -- any written document or memoranda.
15
like to say as far as the renewal of the Rule 29, Your Honor,
16
is that there has been absolutely no proof in this case --
17
18
MS. MILLER:
I don't expect any
Are you making a Rule 29 motion right
now?
19
MR. PARRINELLO:
20
THE COURT:
21
MR. PARRINELLO:
22
THE COURT:
23
(Proceedings concluded at 4:39 p.m.)
24
25
And all I would
Yeah, I am.
Sorry.
Well, why don't we do it on Monday.

Your Honor, thank you.
Thank you.
INDEX
DIRECT
CROSS
REDIRECT
3
4
5
WITNESSES FOR THE

DEFENSE
David Kron
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
60
72
RECROSS
76
CERTIFICATION
2
3
I certify that the foregoing is a correct
transcription of the proceedings stenographically recorded by
me in this matter.
6
7
8
S/Yvonne M. Garrison, RPR
YVONNE M. GARRISON, RPR

Official Reporter
U.S.D.C., W.D.N.Y.
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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Case 6:09-cr-06147-RJA-JWF Document 80 Filed 08/20/12 Page 1 of 77

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

Docket No. 09-CR-6147

Buffalo, New York

TRANSCRIPT OF NON-JURY TRIAL CONTINUED

MARISSA J. MILLER, ESQ. and

For the Defendant:

JOHN R. PARRINELLO, ESQ.

YVONNE M. GARRISON, RPR

Case 6:09-cr-06147-RJA-JWF Document 80 Filed 08/20/12 Page 2 of 77

Criminal Action 2009-6147A, United States

Nicholas Skvarla, continuation of non-jury trial.

Counsel, please state your name and the party you

Marissa Miller for the government.

defendant Nicholas Skvarla.

Well, Mr. Parrinello, I guess you're up.

I'm up, yes, Your Honor.

only problem is the witness I intend to call is apparently,

according to Ms. Miller, delayed.

Your Honor, I spoke with him

approximately 20 minutes ago, and he said he'd gotten caught up

at the Williamsville tolls, but was past them and expected to

Your Honor, before we leave, can we

take up a scheduling matter --

Obviously we're at the position of the beginning and

presumably the end of the defense case today.

of the 29 motion and then ultimately a summation.

Case 6:09-cr-06147-RJA-JWF Document 80 Filed 08/20/12 Page 3 of 77

And I've told Ms. Miller that I'm

prepared to do the witness today, I'm not prepared to do a

How long will your summations

be just so I have an idea?

I imagine at the very most, 20 minutes,

I'd probably need a day or two just

Today is the 14th.

When would you be available for

Let me know when the witness

(A recess was taken at 2:05 p.m.)

Mr. Parrinello, are we ready?

Yes, Your Honor.

Case 6:09-cr-06147-RJA-JWF Document 80 Filed 08/20/12 Page 4 of 77

The defense calls Deputy Kron as its

your last name for the record.

Please state your full name and spell

My full name is David Kron, K-R-O-N.

DAVID KRON, SWORN,

Good afternoon, Deputy.

Good afternoon, sir.

How are you?

I'm fine, thank you.

Just to start out with, it's my understanding that you

work for the Monroe County Sheriff's Department for a number of

years; is that correct?

Yes, sir, that's correct.

a deputy for the Monroe County Sheriff's Department and as a

task force officer on loan to the FBI?

Yes, sir, that's correct.

And I also understand that is -- you no longer are in a

Case 6:09-cr-06147-RJA-JWF Document 80 Filed 08/20/12 Page 5 of 77

I am no longer in that status.

And as far as being a deputy with the Monroe County

Sheriff's Department, is -- are you retiring as of today?

As of 5 p.m. today, yes.