RORY GALLAGHER: A Rap On

The Road
The Rory Gallagher Interview
Prose By John Waters

Pix By Colm Henry

You could say that Im

excited! When I collected
my first ever pay packet
back in 74, I went straight
out and flogged it on the
complete Rory Gallagher
back catalogue and a
couple of Taste albums to
boot! For the next week, I
remember, I was hungry,
but very very happy!
Rory Gallagher has always
declined to become
involved in the excesses
that often seem to prevail
in the rock n roll market
place. In his music, and his
public persona, he has
steadfastly refused to
make concessions of any
kind in the direction of
either commerciality or of
fashion. He has remained
his own man, doing his own thing, doing it well, and
being successful. And while other (often less worthy
and exalted) musicians have cut themselves off from
their followers isolating themselves in an aloof
cocoon of bodyguards and hangers on Gallagher has
always remained approachable, familiar, touchable.
To me, Rory has always seemed to be the antithesis
of the Star Symbol for this reason, paradoxically, he
has always been a hero of mine.
Yeah! You could say that Im excited. To see Gallagher
playing live is always a thrill in itself, but on this jaunt
Ill catch the final two gigs of his 1981 tour of British
universities, tonight at Birmingham University, and
tomorrow at Brunei in Uxbridge, London and also
meet and talk to Rory. In addition, its my first
overseas assignment for The Worlds Most Fortnightly

Rock Paper and it will also be my first time to fly in an

aeroplane. To mark the occasion, a colony of
butterflies have organized an aeronautics display in
the pit of my stomach!
And its still half an hour to lift off.

Later. Birmingham University: a venerable, rambling

building, with huge, oaken doors, stained glass
windows, mountainous staircases and vast mazes of
dimly lit corridors with contraceptive dispensing
machines that never work! Its the kind of building in
which you walk half a mile to find the toilet, only to
discover when you get there that its about twenty
feet from where you started out!
Gallagher is in his dressing room when we arrive
signing autographs for a couple of stray fans.
His appearance is engagingly scruffy, looking
marginally more like an unmade bed than I do. Hes
wearing jeans and a T-shirt; his hair is uncombed, his
face unshaven. He seems slightly heavier than
before, his face is fuller. Apart from this he has
changed little since first I saw him, back in his Taste
days.
At Rorys suggestion, together with his brother and
manager, Donal, we adjourn to a nearby watering
hole for a drink.
Down in the Gun Barrel, for that is the hostelrys
handle, we talk about Irish bands De Dannan, U2,
Bagatelle, The Bogey Boys and it transpires that
Rorys as up-to-date on whats happening as I am.
He admires Moving Hearts a lot, but thinks theyre
beginning to be hounded for their political opinions.
He defends their right to hold such beliefs and to
state them in their music without constantly having
to justify themselves. Nobody, he points out,
questions the right of The Clash to state what are
often much more superficial and less passionately

held viewpoints.
By now pre gig tension is mounting. Back in the
dressing room, theres a guy who writes for the
college magazine, who would like to interview Rory.
His name is Damien. Hes from Omagh, a definite
plus! Hes only heard of Taste from his father - a
slight minus!
Rory agrees to being interviewed, however, and
Damien proceeds to interrogate him about the lack of
Irishness in his material. Gallagher is cautious, and
also, I suspect, slightly hurt by the tone of the
question.
Everyone knows where Im from, he declares. And
Im proud of it, but what are you supposed to do to
prove it?
In fact, as it becomes abundantly clear to
me as the weekend progresses, any
criticism of Rory in the matter of
consciousness of his Irish identity is
manifestly undeserved. Among the most
abiding memories of the trip is the way he
would talk animatedly and knowledgably
about Ireland, about the political
situation; about, for instance, the
performance of the Coalition or the lack of
it; about his disappointment with the
seemingly unconditional support which
has been given it by the independent
deputies especially by Dr. Noel Browne, of
whom Rory is a long time admirer.
I think he was just trying to hinge on this
business of writing the great epic Irish
rock song, Rory says of his interviewer
afterwards.
Does he, I wonder, have a definite stance towards
politics, and if so, does he think it should manifest
itself in his music?

I'm not mad about political parties or politicians

generally, he says. I hate the whole system and all
the rest of it. But that attitude gives you the great
cop out. So thats one side of the coin!
On the other hand, if you have a serious discussion
about the way history goes, you tend to say, well,
certain people were not as bad as certain other
people! Put it this way: Im interested in modern
history, so therefore Im interested in modern
politics; but I also know the baloney, and the
crockery, and the jive and the crap that goes on.
Does he not think his music should reflect this view?
Its hard to say. Most rock n roll music is pretty
apolitical. I dunno, I just do what I do. Im not into
proclamations!!
So much for the politics, on to the poetry, the gig!
Normally, I would say, a staid, almost gloomy
environment, tonight the university hall is stuffed to
its ancient rafters. The atmosphere is electrifying.
I opened the door to go in, said Donal Gallagher
afterwards, and five people fell out!
And he was not exaggerating!
Support band, The Rookies, have been off the stage
for about twenty minutes when the lights go down,
and a mighty cheer goes up. Gerry McAvoy runs on.
Suddenly newest member Brendan ONeill (whose
recruitment means that its now an all-Irish-band
hes from Belfast) is behind the drum kit. Last of all
comes Gallagher, battered Strat dangling, racing on
hands aloft in salute.
From here on, its Blitzville!
It is nothing short of incredible to think how many
great songs Gallagher has written. Apart from the
as yet-unreleased material that he performs, he has a
vast repertoire of older stuff to draw from. So much

so, in fact, that while the old favourites like Last Of

The Independents, Shadow Play, Philby,
Tattood Lady, Brute Force And Ignorance,
Wayward Child and Bullfrog Blues are coming
thick and fast its only afterwards that you think of
all the equally good songs that hes actually left out.
Nor has he lost any of his flair for histrionics:
grimacing, strutting and tearing round the stage; or
sustaining a note and tossing his plectrum six feet in
the air during Moonchild", catching it and playing
on; or indulging in a bout of dueling guitars with
Gerry McAvoy during Calling Card; or stopping
singing, now and then, when he gets to a chorus,
gesturing with his eyes - and the crowd comes in on
cue with the hookline!
His song introductions are minimal, being confined to
the occasional heres a little up-tempo number, hope
you enjoy this one, thank you! or some such
understatement! There is a tremendous natural
empathy between Rory and his audience, which
eliminates the need for any explanations,
introductions or other chitchat.
One of the highlights of his shows has always been
the acoustic set. Tonight is no exception, and though
unfortunately he no longer performs my personal
favourite Too Much Alcohol, nevertheless the two
songs featured Out On The Western Plain and a
Louisiana Red song called Ride On Red maintain
the high standard.
The others come back on and its more rockers
Philby and a blistering Shadow Play after which
Rory unstraps his guitar, yells the familiar
thanksamillion farewell, shakes a few hands at the
front, waves goodbye and disappears.
A thousand years later, he comes back (no snow rope
encores here!) and launches into Last Of The
Independents. He disappears again, but comes back
for a thundering Secret Agent which explodes into
Bullfrog Blues. Then he waves goodbye again and

is gone, this time for good.

Afterwards its meet the fans time. It takes Rory the
best part of an hour to get through the long line of
people stretching down the narrow corridor leading
to his dressing room. Hes in no hurry. Leisurely he
signs autographs, shakes hands, talks about guitars
or gadgets, greeting each new arrival with a friendly
howya doin, are ye alright!
I notice two Japanese girls standing near the dressing
room. Later Im informed that one of them, Mitsumi,
is the secretary of the Rory Gallagher fan club. They
both attend most of the bands gigs: Anywhere from
Tokyo to London as Rory puts it. Each night they
bring along a little present for Rory - tonight its an
exotic box of chocolate biscuits.
When the last hand has been shook, and the last
album cover signed, we climb into Donals Jensen and
speed off through the night (do I sound like Julie
Boyd?!) in the direction of London, the scene of
tomorrow nights gig. The plot is that I interview Rory
in the car on the way; but a few miles down the road,
fate and a flat tyre intervene, and as we discover the
spare is also flat, Rory and I end up in the nearby
Watford Gap," a late night diner, while Donal goes
off in search of a garageman to repair the puncture.
Rory informs me that back in the old days The
Watford Gap used to be a great meeting place for
bands in the early hours of the morning, after gigs.
Nowadays, he jokes, bands might not like to be seen
here without their makeup!
The restaurant, seemingly in the past a somewhat
sleazy joint, has recently been renovated. Rory jokes
that he hopes the fact that its been Ritzed up
doesnt mean that the eggs are less greasy! (He
neednt have worried!) Like myself hes a martyr for
the health foods I don't think!! He orders a big plate
of sausage, bacon, eggs, beans and chips. I do
likewise (though minus the eggs) and we sit down at
one at one of the nice new tables, to eat and to talk.

I enquire how he came across new drummer Brendan

ONeill, who replaced Ted McKenna some months
back, Ted, I understand, is now playing with Greg
Lake, as indeed is Gary Moore.
Well, Ive known Brendan for a couple of years,
explains Rory. Hes been living in London, and, in
fact, he was the first drummer that Gerry used to play
with in Belfast, and he was working with this
jazz rock group called Swift, so I didnt even know he
was into playing this kind of music, but as luck would
have it we played together and it worked out fine.
Hed kind of gone through the jazz rock thing phase,
and seemingly was interested in playing (laughs)
whatever it is we play. I hate putting a title on it any
more!
Speak of the Devil. Brendan and Gerry, who have
been traveling in another car, arrive with Peter, the
bands road manager.
It transpires that Brendan once played with an Irish
showband, The Real McCoy, and this brings forth a
store of showband stories, which we swap happily for
half an hour. All of them unfortunately are
unprintable due to the laws of libel! Sorry!
This conversation prompts me to ask Rory later if
there was ever a time when he could have been
sucked in irreversibly into the showband trap. (He
did, after all, spend a couple of years playing with the
Impact Showband at home in Cork, while he was still
at school.)
Not really. I was extremely determined to get out,
because after playing Jim Reeves numbers secula
seculorum, youd (shakes head)naw!!
Lets put it this way, he adds. Mathematically its
possible I couldve ended up playing in a showband,
but knowing myself it wouldnt have happened. I had
my fill of them up to here. When I left the showbands
for good, I said thats it! No Way!!

I was only there really about two years, but in that

two years I got around the country, and did the Lent
tour of England a couple of times. (Note for English
readers: the Lent tour was a traditional annual part of
Irish showbands life. The dance halls were closed
during the six weeks preceding Easter, a penance,
you see, which was strictly enforced by the Catholic
hierarchy and consequently the bands had to go to
England for the duration in order to make a living!)
And I was in Spain once too, so it was an experience
and I was stuck in school, so I couldnt complain!
It was still a thrill to actually plug into an AC 30 Vox
amp, yknow (laughs). Its only when you start
getting more serious about the music you want to
play and dont want to play, yknow. You dont want
to be going around doing covers of Hucklebuck or
covers of Jim Reeves, or covers of anything, really!
You had good showbands and bad ones of course.
You had a good brass section with The Plattermen,
good singers with The Freshmen, or a certain band
would be terrible, but the sax player or the
guitar player would be great. Youd always get that in
showbands.
But the band I was in, I mean I tried to push them
into doin as much Chuck Berry or R n B ish kind of
things as possible. We used to do things like Slow
Down, Nadine, Johnny B. Goode, all those sort of
things. So that would keep me relatively happy. But
then wed still have to do the stuff in between, a
couple of pop ones, a couple of country ones, yknow.
Of course theres a certain amount of crack in the
showbands. Theres an amazing amount of fun that
goes on and carry on. But if youre playing five hours
a night and half the time youre just plonking away, it
gets claustrophobic! And if the other musicians dont
relate to the sort of music youre fond of its frustrating.

Thats not to say that you can be too high n mighty.

I mean the showband players have every right to
work in a band like that, and theyre happy doin it.
And you can be very cynical about it but by the same
token, you have to give them credit. Theyre playing
music theyre playing dance music, and theyre entertaining people, and Im the first one to knock them
for six but yknow, who am I to dictate?
Its up to yourself whether you want to go off and
starve in Hamburg, or starve in London for a while,
and wait for a break that is a long time coming. That's
the way it goes!
Brunel University, Uxbridge, the scene of Saturday
nights gig is a fairly modern complex (or at least
what I saw of it was) on the outskirts of London, in
fact its just a plectrums throw away from Heathrow
Airport.
Unfortunately the night is marred straight away by an
instance of bureaucracy gone wild. Because theyve
got a bee in their bonnet about some previous
visiting act doing damage to the dressing rooms, the
college authorities are refusing to allow the band to
have the use of this facility. As a result, Rory, Gerry
and Brendan must change in of all places - a squash
court!
Thus, when Rory and I sit down before the gig to
conduct, as he puts it, the meat and potatoes of
the interview, ensconced in two armchairs placed by a
Super Ser in the centre of the court, and dwarfed by
the sheer vastness of the environment (not to
mention frozen), we could be two forlorn characters
plucked straight out of some fanciful Beckett
scenario, bent on some surreal existentialist spree!
In actual fact, were bent over a tape-recorder, and
what follows is a veritable valley of questions and
answers.
His new album, he reveals, is to be called Jinx.

Rory: Yeah, weve got it recorded, it just needs

mixing. It was supposed to have been released in late
autumn, but we were too late in finishing it. And then
the tour came up, so trying to rush it out for
Christmas, type of thing, wouldve been silly, because
itd just get lost in the shuffle, and you mightnt even
have done it properly, yknow. So this way is better!
Having heard a number of the songs last night, the
stomping Double Vision, the bluesy Ride On Red, to
name but two, I can vouch for their quality, but what
about the other songs which have not, as yet, been
assimilated into the set?
Well, lets see. Theres a song, called Loose Talk
which we havent done on stage. Theres a song,
called Signals, which you havent heard its a
spacey, kinda fast one.
Theres the song Jinxed itself, which is quite slow
kind of Latin blues type of feel to it. It has a kind of
Latin American beat, but its actually a blues number.
Its quite interesting yknow, with tom toms and stuff,
and its got a couple of saxes on it as well... its got
quite a spooky atmosphere, that one!
Theres a song weve been doing called The Devil
Made Me Do It, a very fast Eddie Cochran sort of
thing, not quite rockabilly, but a very fast sort of
driving one. And then theres Easy Come, Easy Go
which is a kind of a minor Id call it a ballad, really,
but its a blues ballad something in the vein of A
Million Miles Away. That type of stuff!
Immediate plans involve mixing the album and hitting
the road again in the New Year. Therell be
continental gigs, some in Britain to coincide with the
release of the album and in Ireland around Easter, if
current projections are met.
But next year, our main aim is to try to get back to
the States, and be a bit more active there, he adds.
Gallagher obviously has lost none of his commitment

to touring, in fact, he spends on average, between six

and eight months on the road each year. In the past
twelve months, for instance, the band has visited
Australia, New Zealand and France, and also played
two dates in Greece, one an open air gig in Athens,
the second indoors at Salonika.
As Greece - what with the repressive junta regime
that existed there up to the recent election, has
never exactly been on the beaten track as far as
touring rock bands are concerned (the last band to
perform there were The Rolling Stones... in 1967!!),
one might have expected some enthusiasm. In fact,
at the Athens gig, there was a full scale riot!
They expected fifteen thousand people, explains
Rory, and thats serious! And I said well, they must
be kidding!! I didnt realize that you could have that
amount, but as it turned out, there was twice that
many, or thereabouts, but half of them were outside,
and either they supposedly gate crashed, or else the
police over reacted because the audience were all up
on their feet.
It was a great gig really if I say so myself and, all of
a sudden, the police started getting a little heavy
with the audience, things started getting a little bit
hard, yknow. We were just playin away it really only
all happened after the encore. The crowd were grand,
but ysee they dont have all that many big shows like
that, and I suppose the police were nervous. There
was the election coming up, as well, in two weeks or
something, so I think they used the concert as an
example to show how they could keep control of a
crowd, or something like that!
The trouble in a situation like that is: if you get too
much of the strong armed approach towards a couple
of fans, its seen, and it goes through the auditorium
or the arena very fast. Naturally enough, when the
word gets out, it gets very nasty, and if youve got
guys there with riot gear on, and stuff like that, it
makes matters seem worse.

People were hurt (300, in fact), I dunno, I only heard

the reports afterwards. A couple of the police were
hurt, and quite a few of the audience.
They all made it home somehow or other, but I think
they burned down a few cafes on the way!! But thats
not in my fault!
Were there any repercussions for the band?
We had to move lightly on our feet, because there
was a hint that I might be held as some sort of a
trouble maker. They were talking of putting off the
show in Salonika, after Athens, but that went of fairly
well, there was no problem.
Would he go back there?
Ah I would yeah. Sure. I wouldnt go back if the junta
were back in power, but I dont think thats gonna
happen.
Will he be let go back?
Well the Socialists actually won the election out
there, so I think itll be all right. I think it was just a
nervous situation, yknow.
Quick change of direction: does he listen much to
current music?
I'm all ears, all the time! I could reasonably claim to
be fairly aware of all kinds of music. I cant say Im all
that switched on by a lot of recent stuff, but if Im
going to criticize something, I like to actually know
what Im talking about!
Has there been anything at all recently, that he
particularly liked?
Lemme see Im thinking too hard so obviously
there hasnt been anything. I like the Stray Cats, I
liked their first album Im not that daft about the
second one though. Costello I like a lot, but I dont

regard him as being that new at this point.

How did he feel about Costellos recent foray into the
world of country music?
Well Im a country fan myself, but not of the sweeter
stuff. I like Johnny Paycheck and Waylon Jennings, and
I thought he was gonna do something like that, but in
fact he went for the sweet stuff, the strings and
voices. And the producer, Billy Sherrill, even though
that TV programme (recent ITV documentary about
the making of Costellos album in Nashville - shown
as part of the South Bank Show series) gave the
impression that he was into orchestrations and all
that sort of thing, on the other records he just
doesnt have all that stuff!
Nevertheless it was a worthwhile project youd
wonder though whether hed have got a better result
by just goin into a studio with Nick Lowe and a steel
player, and just goin for more of a honky tonk
sound.
What other music does he listen to?
In any particular week, I listen to I could be
listening to rhythm n blues tonight, and tomorrow I
could be listening to fairly contemporary stuff. I used
to listen to a lot of jazz, but not so much any more.
I still like music that sounds fairly human, I suppose
thats a corny way of putting it. But Im not keen on
Im not against synthesizers, but yknow the current
wave of bands, Im not keen on them, the New
Romantics, and stuff like that, it doesnt appeal to
me! I tend to still have lot of respect for the more
traditional names like Dylan and the Stones and
people like that!
Does he have an ideal rock n roll person?
Well I mean Keith Richard, might be the obvious
modern day, ultimate rock n roll figure or Chuck
Berry, I imagine, or Jerry Lee. Theres loads of them

ysee (laughs) but I dont really believe in, this thing

of making
What about Elvis Presley?
Oh yeah, Id personally strangle that guy (Albert
Goldman) whos written that new book. I havent read
it all, but I read the extracts in Rolling Stone. He
couldnt have written that book if Elvis was still alive,
because of the laws of libel the dead cant come
back and sue! Yknow? Hopefully though, Elvis will
haunt him yet with a bit of luck!!
No ones above having their lives reviewed and
written about, and so on, but yknow, how can you sit
down and say something like as Elvis lay on his bed,
he thought to himself Or, as Elvis said to himself as
he walked onto the Vegas stage for the last time.
Thats fiction!
If Charlie Gillet had written it, or Greil Marcus, or
one of those fellows, somebody who likes rock n roll,
but this guy actually likes Benny Goodman. He was on
TV recently, being interviewed, and he said that Elvis
was only basically a good copyist of demo discs and
he just wrote him off! And thats not on! Id be
surprised if he even has an album at home. I mean
thats where Id draw the line. If Elvis did good things
or bad things well everyone has gotta answer for
themselves, but you must remember that Elvis had to
live in a very there wasn't much allowance. It was a
very strict society. Keith Richard can get away with
almost anything now, or Jagger or any of these
people. Society is going that way now, and that's fine!
But people expected Elvis to be perfect all of the
time, yknow!
I think too much has been made of turning rock n
roll figures into some sort of deities, of elevating
them too much. Everyone likes praise, and everyone
likes to see certain artists admired yknow, or held in
esteem. But if its taken too far I think it gets a bit
lopsided, particularly if you know one or two of them,
if thats not a prim thing to say and you know theyre

only human, and they can only do a certain job.

Is this why Rory has always ensured that he remained
approachable? Or does he think about it at all?
Ah not really. I mean I dont see myself as
approachable all of the time. But I just try to keep a
wee bit of I try to keep my feet somewhat on the
ground. I suppose I Im getting into analyzing
myself now (laughs) which I dont really like, but I
mean, I have avoided certain trappings of the thing
because I think they ruin rock n roll or whatever we
play. They mess peoples heads up, and its a hard
enough business as it is! I like to keep a certain
amount of control of what I do, and youve to make
sacrifices for that you have to cut down your stardom
(grimaces) ambitions. At least this way you can
attempt to make fairly decent music - make decent
albums, and play for the fun of it without getting too
carried away!
Saturday nights gig goes off well. There is marginally
more room to move than the night before, but as the
venue is at least twice the size of the Birmingham
one, there is probably in fact a larger attendance.
Afterwards Rory, Donal, Pasquale (who handles the
bands continental promotions) and I head into town
to eat, and proceed to assault our respective brains
with consecutive bottles of Carlsberg Special and
sundry other beverages.
Im struck, as indeed I was many times throughout
the last couple of days, by the wide range of Rorys
interests. For perhaps four or five hours he talks
about everything under the sun - music, venues,
movies, tennis, politics, Elvis, religion, spies and
music. And theyre just the things I can remember!
Much later, Donal drops me back to my hotel, where I
should be able to grab about twenty minutes sleep
before catching my early morning flight.
Packing a suitcase, I reflect on what a special kind of

person Rory Gallagher is: what an amiable,

interesting companion and what a down to earth
human being. And what a superb musician as well.
And it dawns on me again just how well that first pay
packet was spent.
The Hot Press Dec 18th 1981 Vol. 5 No. 25
Thanks to Brenda O'Brien for sharing and typing this article
reformatted by roryfan