Anybody use the Goodchord Voice Leading Books?

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Anybody use the Goodchord Voice Leading Books?

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bako

10-12-2013, 12:02 PM

Yes, G harmonic minor, I meant to correct that, but got distracted thinking about the rest of the post.
I deleted the sequence I posted earlier because I saw some flaws in it's ability to generate 7th chords in 3rds.
Perhaps the better path would be 3 note modal compression pairs in the context of the overlapping hexatonics.

JakeAcci

10-12-2013, 12:13 PM

Maybe a similar approach to similar notes, but a little simpler would just be
C D Eb F# G, then up a whole step to start the pattern again:
C D Eb F# G
A B C D# E
F# G# A C C#
Eb F Gb A Bb
C
Hey, as a line, that's pretty cool!

bako

10-12-2013, 12:40 PM

or even simpler linked tetrachords

CDEbF#
GABbC#
DEFG#
ABCD#
EF#GA#
BC#DE#
F#G#AC
DbEbFbG
AbBbCbD
EbFGbA
BbCDbE
FGAbB
C

JakeAcci

10-12-2013, 01:02 PM

Neat!

I think it's interesting and sometimes challenging to try to figure out how to make this stuff correspond to Goodrick's approach to "cycles"

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Simplest approach with your collection above, though not necessarily staying true to the sound of the 'scale' at all times:

cycle 2 7ths:

Cm7 Dma7 Ebma7 F#m7 Gm7 Ama7 Bbma7 C#m7 etc

cycle 3

Cm7 Ebma7 Gm7 Bbma7 Dm7 Fma7 etc

cycle 4

Cm7 F#m7 Bbma7 Ema7 Am7 (repeat pattern on Am7)

cycle 5

m7 chords moving in 5ths (Cm7 Gm7 Dm7 Am7)

cycle 6

Cm7 Ama7 Fma7 Ebm7 Bm7 (pattern repeats on Bm7)

etc

In each case it's patterned movement of chords that take a while to come back to the "1"

marcwhy

10-13-2013, 11:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthHertz
Oh, on a not so oblique aside, there's a guitarist out there who's been making amazingly exquisite music in a similar course of progress. Watch this guy, he's one
to know:
http://www.mymusicmasterclass.com/?s=monder
http://www.mymusicmasterclass.com/pr...itar-lesson-2/
There's a new level of literacy within this generation of players, and I feel that the tools that are needed may go a little beyond simple transcription of solos,
because each player can make their own permutation of the material.
It's just a matter of what you want to do with the time that you have right now.
David

"A guitarist?!" What a funny way to introduce Ben! Hopefully (most) everyone here knows of Ben, and if not, start listening now! I actually like a
lot of his sideman albums vs. his frontman albums, but they're all good.

bako
There are many permutations of what can be done with single scale voice led cycles.
Needless to say, the possibilities expand exponentially with the addition of a bi-tonal element.
Attached is one possible scenario.

bako
Here's one more take on B/C bi-tonal thing in cycle 2.
This one uses 2 lower notes of the C and 2 upper notes of B as a starting point.
You may want to adjust octaves in some places.

TruthHertz

10-14-2013, 12:20 AM
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10-14-2013, 01:27 PM
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11-18-2013, 10:23 AM

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Appeared on ebay today:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mr-Goodchord...E:B:SS:US:3160
Mr. Goodchord's Almanac of Guitar Voice-Leading for the Year 2001 and Beyond. by Mick Goodrick. Vol. 1. Name That Cord. Compiled and Edited by
Mitch Haupers. Heavy Book. Under Condition, they gave me only 3 Choices. New, Used or for Parts. This is like new, very close to new. . Questions are
Welcome and Encouraged.

Somebody's volume 1.
David

jster

11-18-2013, 12:07 PM

I actually happen to have money in my paypal account right now and I would buy it if for no other reason than it seems like a good investment
opportunity! Of course I'd also like to peek inside and see what all the hubub is about! Unfortunately, they won't deliver to Europe. I just have
one question for you guys: On a percentage scale, to what degree is it guitar independent? It seems guitar independent when you guys talk
about exploring new sounds. But "Guitar" is right there in the title. I never understood that. Thanks.

jeromesteele

11-18-2013, 01:42 PM

I am on this, thanks for sharing David.

JakeAcci

11-18-2013, 08:53 PM

Jster I guess the only way it is restricted to the guitar is that it includes restrictions with the guitar in mind. But it is not very guitar dependent.

TruthHertz

11-18-2013, 09:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jster
On a percentage scale, to what degree is it guitar independent? It seems guitar independent when you guys talk about exploring new sounds. But "Guitar" is right
there in the title. I never understood that. Thanks.

Yes the title is a little deceiving. It's by no means specific to the guitar world, as a matter of fact many things in the almanacs are not possible
to play on the guitar without some thought to use of diads or even necessitating duo situations to realize. That said, in many ways it's an issue
and solution that is very topical to guitar players especially: Thinking of harmony in 3 or 4 independent voices instead of a series of parallel drop
2 grabs that have been the way for many decades.
It's actually piano players who have been getting a lot of mileage from the Goodchord volumes because the movement of voices can be easily
played and seen, and because all of the notes don't need to be covered by one hand as with the guitar.
It's also been proven to be a powerful compositional and arranging tool. The notation itself indicates only voice movement, and not staff
notation, or instrument specific notation. It's designed to be as concrete and adaptively abstract to show voice movements through intervallic
root movement cycles.
I think because it was written by a theorist/guitarist, one acutely aware of the problematic nature of playing harmony on a fingerboard
instrument, Mick devised a method of seeing harmony, not from the convenience of grid form fingerings but from a purely musical perspective
of voice movements. So for the guitarist, it's left to the user to figure out how to actually play these things (you do need to know all your notes
and locations on the fingerboard. There is no hand holding as far as where and how to play these cycles) and the system does lend itself to use
on any instrument.
Because of this, it's also a great ear training method, and it's quite a workout that will get the typical guitarist seeing the fingerboard in a very
new way, as the movement of roots across the fingerboard as well as the line of movements within the chord progression.
The possibilities of you coming up with a sound nobody else has even heard are staggering. It's so rich, you may indeed wind up with the facility
to improvise with the chops of a Bach chorale. But don't ever think this is an easy way to plug and play. This is very much a do it yourself
construction kit with a huge catalogue of what can be done. It's actually mathematically exhaustive. If you can voice a chord, it's in there. If a
chord can move smoothly from one to another, it's in there.
That's the way I see it anyway.
David

e_del

12-03-2013, 04:44 AM

Hello everybody,
I'm posting here in the "goodchord repository" thread, that I hope will last forever, to revive it a bit as I use it as a reference to retrieve
informations when I don't remember them (and with age it happens more and more :smile-new: )

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just a brief side note: I just found this article in a blog

http://musiccomptech.blogspot.it/201...ce-cycles.html
It made me think that actually the "goodchord cycles" are not exhaustive, and more options of voice leading exist, that are effective and usable
(in case you found the almanacs limiting.. hahaha)...

bako

12-03-2013, 08:44 AM

e_del,
The blog post presents a 2 chord sequence (from diatonic cycle 6) progressing in a 4ths in a chromatic environment.
The books largely address cycles in the context of scales. For better or worse there remain many more possibilities beyond the already
abundant collection in the books.
Chromatic cycles
m2---C Db D Eb E F Gb G Ab A Bb B
ma2--C D E F# G# Bb // F G A B Db Eb
m3---C Eb Gb A // F Ab B D // Bb Db E G
ma3---C E G# // F A C# // Bb D F# // Eb G B
4th---C F Bb Eb Ab Db F# B E A D G
#4/b5--C F# // F B // Bb E // Eb A // Ab D // Db G
5th-----C G D A E B F# Db Ab Eb Bb F
#5/m6---C Ab E // F Db A // Bb F# D // Eb B G
ma6------C A F# Eb // F D B Ab // Bb G E C#
m7-------C Bb Ab Gb E D // F Eb Db B A G
ma7------C B Bb A Ab G Gb F E Eb D Db
m2,ma7,4th and 5th progress through all 12 keys in one move
ma2 and m7 progress through all 12 keys in two moves
m3 and ma6 progress through all 12 keys in three moves
ma3 and m6 progress through all 12 keys in four moves
#4/b5 progress through all 12 keys in six moves
I ordered each group within the cycles that don't hit all 12 keys in 4ths,
which offers a logical way to address the remaining keys.
Basically one can choose a chord type or a sequence of chords and consider that as a unit
and move it through a cycle. From there, just voice lead the resultant progression.

james8382

12-04-2013, 10:17 PM

If anyone is interested in obtaining the Goodchord books, PM me.

TruthHertz

12-18-2013, 11:38 AM

There is so much here that pertains to the way Goodchord, Voice leading, linear harmony relates to the existing world of grabs and blocks.
Just had to share this.
David
http://www.youtube.com/embed/rPovnp3Dly4?rel=0

Gearhead

12-20-2013, 07:50 AM

David, thanks for sharing.

Hal's lectures are just great!
Happy holiday season to you guys1
Uli

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edh

12-20-2013, 05:39 PM

Thanks David. I like the way he teaches.

guitarralolo

12-25-2013, 11:04 PM

Thanks to EVERYONE for this thread!! Really helpful and valuable information!!
All the best from Argentina!
Pedro

driskel

01-11-2014, 04:11 PM

This is what I posted in the following thread:

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/compi...tml#post390056
Great thread! Slightly off topic, but I think it applies. The way I have been practicing inversions is by using approaches out of Mick Goodrick's
out of print Almanacs using different cycles. It helps 2 things immediately, learning and solidifying an understanding of the chord
inversions/fingering and teaches great voice leading examples. I also go slow and say the chord note/numbers as I go along. It is a slow
process but gets better everyday. It is also very musical.
For example in the Key of Bb Major the diatonic chords in the key are:
BbM7 Cm7 Dm7 EbM7 F7 Gm7 Am7b5
Cycles: 6 would follow:
BbM7 Gm7 EbM7 Cm7 Am7b5 F7 Dm7 :||
This particular cycles descends. So the order of inversions (0 denoting root in the bass) will look like this as we descend.
BbM7 Gm7 EbM7 Cm7 Am7b5 F7 Dm7 :||
0123012
3012301
2301230
1 2 3 0 1 2 3 :||
For example this week, I am doing cycle 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 in drop 2 and drop 3 on all string sets. Every week I cycle my key to next key in the
cycle of 4ths.
If I have any typos, let me know.
Thanks

guitarralolo

02-06-2014, 10:57 PM

I've just found this scribd document called "mick Goodrick voice leading" which seems to be the introduction to the frist volume of the
Goodchord books. Scribd just won't let me download the document or view more pages, but anyway I find it interesting.

e_del

03-11-2014, 03:49 PM

hello everybody,
I'm sorry, but it seems that my google web page with the chord cycles app doesn't work anymore, so I turned it off..
Probably something changed in the javascript management by google, that broke the script routines I used... custom javascript routines were a
tweak, as normally google has some limits on what can be contained in a web page...
Not a big loss, as I noticed no more than one visit per day to the page, but anyway, since I also used it at some time, I set up an emergency
google spreadsheet with similar functionality, although less robust and responsive...
If anyone is interested, I'll be glad to share it via google docs... just ring a bell with your google account to enrico.dellaquila@gmail.com.
Oh, and by the way, if there was any joomla/wordpress developer around, I'd be happy to discuss about what it takes to port it into a module...
:-)
bye for now,
enrico

mikostep
Here are something for the dinner... More of it to come soon.

04-17-2014, 07:11 PM
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TruthHertz

04-20-2014, 09:49 AM

Hey y'all. Does anybody know of any self publishing solutions for spiral bound books? The Almanacs were originally done this way for good
reason: They can sit on a music stand and you can seriously immerse yourself in one grouping, change to any other section without hassle. It
kind of goes with the non-linearity of the whole almanacs.
I've found that some times they are intimidating because there's this notion that you should start at one end and it's a progressive process. Not
so. Once you get the idea of cycles, how you might use them (you don't even need this to get sounds in your ear) you can drop yourself in any
volume, any page and find the place to open your voice leading world. This was one reason the third volume is so hard to find, the sounds in
there are really elusively outside the conventional expectations because the core voicings are different, but the approach and what you can use
them for is not really any more advanced than the volume 1 material.
Yes, There's Staples printing, but if there's a source anyone knows, someone who does printing, isbn and wire binding, please let me know
ASAP.
A quick synopsis. The rhythm books are the first ones to be made available, one new, Repeat After Me, and one re-issue Factorial Rhythms.
I've just begun working with Factorials with someone on the Ear Training curriculum at Berklee. It's proving to be an amazing learning
supplement, seeing rhythms in patterns rather than reading note values. In 3 weeks he went from the bottom end of the class to ace'ing the
midterm. It's how you see it.
Next in the ready to go is Falling Grace, the catalogue of improvisational ideas, devices and techniques demonstrated and played through a
voluminous series of variations on Swallow's Falling Grace. Recordings of each accompany this work, recorded by Mick.
The Almanacs will be republished in smaller volumes. This is to fit with more bite sized and intuitive/logical breakdown of the material. You have
to still do it yourself but the divisions into chord scale family types will help those working on one particular aural grouping and its possibilities.
This is the reason I'm asking about wire bound solutions.
I'm working on Mick's bio, complete with pieces and interviews with some of his former students and colleagues, materials of interesting
thought provoking "concept lessons" and a treasure chest of anecdotes with their own lessons within. It'll be very readable and a lot of fun.
And a whole bunch more projects. Mick is retiring from a VERY long career of teaching both at Berklee and New England Conservatory. These
projects, and maybe special workshops, weeklong clinics, or other projects will keep him busy in his own way. The intersection of art (he's
spending a lot of time on his drawing and watercolours) and music is always turning out new stuff as is an ongoing exploration of right/left brain
neurology study in learning and teaching.
It's not only a new chapter, but a new volume.
If you can get back to me on publishing suggestions, comments or questions, I'd welcome all your options and experiences.
I was considering deactivating my membership on this forum but I think I'll stay a part, largely because this Goodchord thread and the
Advancing guitarist associated with it are taking the future of guitar into new places. I do want to be a part of that.
I see so many changes at Berklee, and in the next year or so many huge giants and pioneers of guitar will be leaving the teaching ranks in the
guitar department: Mick, Jon Damian, Garrison Fewell, to name three off the top of my head. Mick will continue to break new ground, this
forum will be a place to see it as it develops. So it goes on.
Thanks
David

e_del

04-20-2014, 11:33 AM

that's great!
If there's anything I can contribute with, I'll be happy to...
Looking forward for good(chord)news !

Gearhead

04-20-2014, 01:54 PM

Thanks for the update, David. That's exciting news!

This thread has been pretty much the only reason for me to spend time on this forum. Too bad if you left!
Cheers,
Uli

james8382

04-20-2014, 11:09 PM

I think Lulu has this as an option. Here's the link:

Self Publishing, Book Printing and Publishing Online - Lulu

TruthHertz

04-21-2014, 07:50 AM

james8382, Thanks! This looks very promising. It could be exactly what we're looking for. I'll run the options through today and who knows...
Great.
David

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kevykevy

04-21-2014, 11:41 AM

David --- sent you a PM and email with print info.

james8382

04-22-2014, 11:53 AM

Glad to help. Please keep us up to date regarding this (and other developments in the Goodrick/Goodchord universe) before leaving forever!

scook

04-22-2014, 12:02 PM

I'd like to add my name to those who have enjoyed this thread and would be interested in seeing where it leads.

steve

TruthHertz

04-22-2014, 12:41 PM

Anyone care to comment on how you've been using the voice leading material? or the factorial rhythms material? Any personal stories?
I've been tutoring some students through the Berklee ear training program. There's a big hurdle some run into when reading complex rhythms,
and to be able to sight sing them can be challenging. The factorial rhythms are broken down into little molecular pieces that students can hear,
and when displaced by rests to different places in the measure they sound different but can be seen the same way. By using the factorial
rhythms, all the students I've worked with not only become fluent in hearing and writing the most complex rhythmic combinations, but it shows
up in their playing almost immediately. They discover that one way to develop an idea is to find a rhythmic displacement of any idea. It really
helps them to see the rhythmic identity of a phrase as something that can be played with.
The voice leading material is beginning to show up in most unexpected places. Once I begin to hear even a small progression of a few chords,
and anticipate a chord at the end of that grouping, I can plug several bars of voice led chords the way you'd use a chord substitute. But instead
of one "different" chord, there is an entire movement of harmony that just makes sense in the resolution.
I've also been using the chords as single note lines, in different orders of arpeggiation to get some really spectacular linear ideas. The nice thing
is, it sounds like it complicated because there a lot of notes but it's just a string of voice led chords. It sounds like a lot of notes but it makes
perfect harmonic sense.
Using voice led pieces derived from the melodic minor scale, you can plug in a passage where you'd put a lydian dominant substitution. That
sounds outside but it comes home with the half step resolution. Tricky and nice and easy once you get it in your ears.
Anyone else?
David

taurusgtr

04-22-2014, 11:44 PM

I must admit to skipping from page 1 to the last of this thread. However, are the voice leading books going to be republished? I own #1 and
#2. I'd like to purchase #3. Any info would be great.
Thank you

TruthHertz

04-23-2014, 12:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by taurusgtr
I must admit to skipping from page 1 to the last of this thread. However, are the voice leading books going to be republished? I own #1 and #2. I'd like to
purchase #3. Any info would be great.
Thank you

Looking into publishing options right now. Watch for it.

David

taurusgtr

04-23-2014, 12:39 AM

Thank you sir.

dasein

05-02-2014, 01:41 PM

mick, garrison fewell, AND jon damian are all retiring? it's the end of an era. who's left from the old guard... brett willmott and richie hart?
anyways, the work you're doing is exemplary, TruthHertz/David. as much as it pains us to admit, guys like Mick won't be around forever, and
documenting as much of his thoughts, methods, works, and teaching as possible while he's still got the drive and ability to push the instrument
forward is going to be crucial for the next generation of players. I only wish that Charlie Banacos got such a thorough treatment before his
untimely passing.

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I believe you have my email, but if not, I will gladly PM you again to keep in touch and possibly help out (if needed) with any developments on
this front.
05-02-2014, 05:23 PM

Broyale

I just heard about these Goodchord Voice Leading books. Are they gonna be put back in print? Anyone got a copy they want to $ell?
05-03-2014, 12:30 AM

marcwhy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broyale
I just heard about these Goodchord Voice Leading books. Are they gonna be put back in print? Anyone got a copy they want to $ell?

Bro,
This is a very long -- and rich -- thread, with lots of info on the books, upcoming printings, new projects, etc. It would be worth your time to go
back and check it out.
[BTW, an original book sold on eBay recently for a couple hundred bucks, so be prepared]
Enjoy!
05-03-2014, 03:30 AM

Broyale
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcwhy

Bro,
This is a very long -- and rich -- thread, with lots of info on the books, upcoming printings, new projects, etc. It would be worth your time to go back and check it
out.
[BTW, an original book sold on eBay recently for a couple hundred bucks, so be prepared]
Enjoy!

I ain't got time to sift through 11+ pages of all that, I just want the books or info on when the books will be available in print. If anyone got all
three volumes to sell, hit me up.
05-05-2014, 10:35 AM

Gesture

I've started using the voice leading material mainly to learn triads and 7th chords all over the fretboard.
I'm trying to incorporate triads in my single-line soloing more to get a more 'open' sound. For example over a Cmaj chord I could combine F and
G triads or D and C triads for a lydian sound.
And like said before on this thread certain parts of cycles can sound great if you play them over chords using either chords or single notes.
Secondly working with this material hopefully allows me in the future to see where the notes of the triads are on the neck.
Also it's great for my ears. I'm going to try singing along with seperate voicings for that.
I haven't got the books so I have mostly used the info on this thread, some examples I've found online and my creativity to come up with
cycles.
TruthHertz: If you don't mind me asking: Do you actually teach at Berklee and if so what's your full name? Just curious!
ps. It would be great to start a thread where we could discuss the factorial rhythms material. I'm really curious what the contents are about but
I can't find ANYTHING about it online. Is the material something you can easily do yourself like with the almanacs?
Cheers
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