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3PhaseSeparatorWithWeir
Startedbybernath,Nov29201012:12AM

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Posted29November201012:12AM

bernath
HiAll,

I'mstillnewbiein3phaseseparatordesign.Therewerefewquestionsariseinmyhead.Hopeyouguyscanhelpme.
Irealizedindesigningthe3phaseseparatorwithweir,therearetwopossibledesign,
1.Thenormalliquidlevel(NLL)ofoilisbelowtheweirlevelattheoilcompartment(seepicI)
2.Thenormalliquidlevel(NLL)ofoilisabovetheweirlevel(seepicII)

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In"SuccessfullySpecifyThreePhaseSeparators"byMonnery&Svrcek,theoilNLLshouldbebelowtheweirlevel,butin
realityIhavefoundonecasewhomoilNLLisabovetheweirlevel(picII).IMHO,thisconfigurationisduetothesmallflow
rateofgas.NowthatIfacethetasktodesignanewseparatorwithsmallgasflowrate,I'mkindconfusewhethertousethe
modelandconfigurationonthepaper(byMonnery&Svrcek)ornot.
thenew'smaller'designspecareasfollow:
gasflowrate:6MMSCFD
oilflowrate:6,000bopd
waterflowrate:6,000bwpd
anyanswerisappreciated
thanks
AttachedFiles
(http://www.cheresources.com/invision/index.php?
app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=3009)picIbelowweirlevelhorizontalthree
phaseseparator.JPG(http://www.cheresources.com/invision/index.php?
app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=3009)31.85KB228downloads
(http://www.cheresources.com/invision/index.php?
app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=3010)picIIaboveweirlevelhorizontalthree
phaseseparator.JPG(http://www.cheresources.com/invision/index.php?
app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=3010)13.21KB186downloads

Editedbykanankiri,29November201012:16AM.
Posted29November201012:32AM

Zauberberg

Justbyfollowingcommonsense,youcanconcludethatitisnotpossibletohavetheoilphaseNLL(Iassumethisstandsfor
"Normalliquidlevel")neitherabove,norbelowtheoverflowweir:
1)Oilsimplyoverflowstheweir,itcannot'float'higherthanthat.Theadditionalheightontopoftheweirisasocalled
overflowcrestwhichcannotbeusedforlevelmeasurementand/orcontrol.
2)IfoilphaseNLLisconstantlybelowtheweir,therewillbenoseparationbetweenaqueousandhydrocarbonphasesand
therewillbecontinuouscarryunderofoilwiththeoutflowingwater.
AsimpleexplanationofthephrasethatmadeyouconfusedabouttheoilphaseNLListhatthe"oillevel"actuallystandsfor
interphaselevelbetweenaqueousandhydrocarbonphases.Andthatmakessense,asitisapplicableforbothsketchesyou
haveuploaded.
Posted29November201001:31AM

bernath
yes,you'rerightZauberberg.It'snottheOilNLL.StillIhaven'tfoundmyansweryet.

theabove2pics,aretheyactuallyisoneseparatorwithdifferentconditionandoperatingflowrate(i.e.min,maxornormal)
orindeedatwodifferentkindofseparators?
whatimeanbyoilNLLbelowtheweirlevelisattheoilcompartment(rightsideofweir),notwatercompartment(leftsideof
weir).Pleasebeclearaboutit.
AsfarasiknowfromthepaperbyMonneryandsomereferencesacrossthenet,theHighHighLiquidlevel(HHLL)ofoilat
therightsideofweircannotexceedoverflowweirlevelbutthe2ndpictureclearlydoesn'tfollowthatrule.Btw,Igotthe
2ndpicfrom'pipingguide.net'
anyanswerarehighlyappreciated
thankyou
Editedbykanankiri,29November201001:32AM.
Posted29November201003:05AM

csp_process

@KanankiriYouarejustconfused,whatZaubergsaidwasmorethenenoughtoclarifyyourquery.Betterthengoogling,you

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shouldhaverescannedprinciplesofphaseseparationfromChemicalengg.referencebooks(Ludwignsomany)
NLLlevelofliquidinvesselatnormalcondition
HLL/LLLHigh/levelofliquidinvesselatabnormalconditions
Thereisnothingwrongwithbothfigures,fig.1representsalowliquidlevel(lessthannormallevel).Fig2representnormal
level(asitlookslike50%ofvesselvolume).
ThereisnosuchruleIhaveheardorreadanywhere,whichsayslevelofoilcann'tgoaboveweirheight.Pleasedon'tsay'High
Highliquidlevel'againandagaintoliquidlevelyouseeinfig.2.GenerallyItisnormalliquidlevelatwhichLevelcontroller/
safetywillbehappy.
ForhighlevelithastocrosstheNormallevel,andofcoursetheweirheightbywhichyourareconfused.
Noauthorwillwriteit,pleasepostthatpaperonforumifitiswritten.ProbablywhatyouhavemisinterpretedisInterface
level(water)shouldn'tcrossthewierheight,whichiscommonsensemorethananyengineering.
Backtoyourintialpost
Yourefer6MMScfdassmallgasflowrate,Canyouimaginehowsmallis6MMSCFD?
Itisaround7000Std.m3/hwhichisnotatallasmallamountofgasforliquid6000bopd(~3942m3/hofoilor~39m3/h
ofwater).
Referagoodchemicalengineeringhandbook.
Allthebest
Editedbycsp_process,29November201003:21AM.
Posted09December201011:56AM

ErwinAPRIANDI
Sorryeveryone,butIthinkhewillbemoreconfusewithalltheexplanation
Dearkanankiri

Firstyoumustknowthattheworkingprincipleof3phaseseparator,theworkingprincipleistoseparateallthethreephase
basedonresidencetimeinsidetheseparator.
Thiswillallowgas,waterandoiltoseparate.
Forgasandliquidseparationyouwillsizetheseparatorsothatthegasvelocityinsidetheseparatorislessthanthecritical
velocity,orthevelocitywhichisrequiredforthespecifieddropletssizetosettled.Whiletheseparationofwaterandoilis
basedonthedifferenceofdensity,ifwegiveenoughtimetoamixtureofwaterandoiltothewaterwilltendtobeonthe
lowersideoftheseparatorwhileoilwilltendtobeonthehigherside
Basedonyoursketch,botharethesametypeofthreephaseseparator,itisa3phaseseparatorwithweir
Thedifferentisonhowitworkforthewaterandoilseparation,inthefirstdrawingthemixtureofwaterandoilwillbe
separateintheareabeforetheweir,meanstheoverflowfromtheweirwillbemostlyoilandthetotalliquidlevelinsidethe
separatorwillbecontrolbyaliquidlevelbeforetheweirtobeonlyslightlyabovetheweir,whiletheliquidlevelaftertheweir
willcontroltheliquidlevelofthecollectedoilfromoverflow.Thisisanoverflowweirtype
Whileintheseconddrawing,thisisasubmersibleweirtype,meanstheweirwillalwaysbeundertheliquid.Thecontrolof
liquidlevelalsowillbefrombothsideoftheweir.But,thelevelcontrolaftertheweirwillcontrolthetotalliquidlevelinside
theseparator,whiletheliquidlevelbeforetheweirwillcontroltheinterfacelevelbetweenwaterandoilbeforetheweir.
Hopethiscanhelp
ERWIN
Posted10December201002:33AM

fallah
DearErvin,

Ithinkyoucertainlymeaninthefirstdrawing,sameassecondone,theinterfacelevelbetweenwaterandoilbeforetheweir
shouldbecontrolledtopreventanyriskofwateroverflowfromtheweir.
Regards

ArtMontemayor

http://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/117243phaseseparatorwithweir/

Posted10December201011:55AM

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Ialsohavelaboredinthepastwithunderstandingwhatthebasicdesignprinciplesbehindthefabricationofa3phaseseparatorare.
However,IwasfortunatetobeborninTexasandIwasexposedtoandreceivedapersonalexplanationonthedetailedworkingsofhow
theprocessissupposedtowork.
ImentionthatIwasfortunate,becauseIhaveneverfoundatextbookormanualthatfullyexplainswhatIhaveoutlinedand
commentedonintheattachedExcelWorkbook.Everyoneinoilandgasproductionhasassumedthattheworkingsofa3phase
separatoraresimplyintuitiveandshouldbeunderstoodbyrecentgraduatesorrookieengineersoutinthefieldorinthedesignand
fabricationofthesevessels.Idontbelievethattheintuitiveprocessisthatsimplebecausenothingreallyissimpleuntilonehashad
thebasicsandscopeofdesignfullydetailedouttoyounomatterhowsimplethatmaybe.
Pleasenotethattherearesomeerrorsormisunderstandingsthroughoutthisthreadregardinghowtheseparatorshouldoperate.Ipoint
thisoutnottocriticizeorembarrassindividuals,butrathertofinallyrevealtoallwhatwasrevealedtomemanyyearsago.Iapologize
andregretnothavingmadementionofthesebasicprinciplesandscopeofworkinpriorthreadsordiscussions,butlikeallotherelderly
engineersItooamgettingold,tired,andforgettingtomentiontheseimportantpointsthatweresohelpfultomeinmyyoungerdays.
Ibelievetheoriginalposter(OP)hasmadesomeerroneousormisunderstoodstatementsandhasincludedtwodifferentsketchesthatare
notrelatedinkeepingwiththebasictopic.Tosimplystatebasics,ImakementionthatTHEOILLEVELINTHE
DOWNSTREAMPORTIONOFTHEFIXEDWEIRSHOULDNEVEREXCEEDTHEHEIGHTOFTHEWEIR.
Toallowthistohappenistodefeattheprinciplesofthebasicdesign.Theonlyreasonfortheweiristocreateachamberwithinthe
separatortocontrolthesmallvolumeofoilthatisretainedthereasacontrolLIQUIDSEALthatensuresthatHPgaswillnotexit
withtheproducedoil.Ifyouinsistonraisingtheoillevelhigherthantheweir,youaredefeatingthereasonfortheweirandcould
operatesimplywithoutaweirinthefirstplace.Itisperfectlypossibletofabricatea3phaseseparatorwithoutafixedweir.Allyou
needtodoistoputinanoverflowpipewithintheoillayer.However,ifafixedweirwasinstalledintheseparator,thentheoriginal
scopeanddesignofthevesselwastooperateinthesimplemannerthatIshowinmysketchthatIincludeinmyworkbook.
WhycouldnttheoriginalOPtakethetimeandefforttocreatethesamesketchthatIdid?Itwouldhavebeensomuchsimplerbecause
itallowsusalltomakeourcomments(withcallouts)directlyonthesketchandbefullyunderstoodrightaway.
Ihopethisexperiencehelpsyouout.
AttachedFiles
(http://www.cheresources.com/invision/index.php?
app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=3066)Howa3PhaseSeparatorWorks.xlsx
(http://www.cheresources.com/invision/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=3066)
140.9KB888downloads

Posted21December201004:24AM

bernath
@erwinandartmontemayor:manythanksfortheexplanation,uguyshavebeenbeenveryhelpful.
sorryart,fornotmakemyquestionclearer
Editedbykanankiri,21December201004:46AM.

Posted04January201105:42PM

trishark

IalsohavespentabitoftimeinTexasandOklahomaintheoilpatch,bothonshoreandoffshore.Iwouldliketocompliment
Artonhisexceldiagramandexplanationoftheworkingofan"oilfall"typeseparators.Iwouldliketoaddalittleinfoabout
theothertypeofseparator,auniformoillevel.
Inbothoftheaboveversions,theweiriscriticaltothefunctionoftheseparationasisthelengthoftimerequiredfortheoilin
the3phasemixturetoflowovertheweir.Nothavingtheweirwouldallowthewaterto"flow"alongthebottomofthevessel
andescapethrutheoiloutlet.Also,residencetimeforthewaterisascriticalasfortheoil,thewateroutletwouldbeasclose
totheweiraspossible.Theoilisfloatingupinthewaterasthewatersinksfromtheoil.InArt'sdiagram,themixtureatthe
leftwouldbealmostconsistentfromtoptobottomwithwhateverthewatercutisforthemixture.Asthemixtureflows
towardtheright,liquidsseparateandthe%ofotherliquidisgraduallyreduced.Ifduetolackofresidencetime,thereisstill
1%waterleftintheoilwhenitpassesovertheweir,itdoesnotmateriftheoillevelisattheweirinanoilfallorseveralinches
abovewithuniformoilNLLacrosstheentirevessel.Thesuspendedwaterwillstillpassintotheoilchamber.
Theprodwaterlevel(interface,oftenreferredtoasNILL)mustbecontrolledtobebelowthetopoftheweir.Thisiscriticalin
offshorefloatingplatformsasvesselpitchandrollcouldallowwatertosurgeandoverflowintotheoilsectionundersome
disruptions.Italsodisruptstheflowofoilovertheweir.Iseemoreuniformlevelseparatorsoffshore.
Manyoilseparationunitsconsistofmultipleseparatorsinseries.Thisallowsasmallpercentageofthewatertopassthruinto

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theoilsection.Itwillbecaughtinthenextseparator.Additionally,thefirstorflashseparatormighthave2000psiinternal
pressure.Anadjustablechokewouldbeusedupstreamoftheseparatortocontrolbothflowandseparatorpressurefromthe
wellgatheringflowlines.At2000psi,onlyabout20to50%ofthegasinsolutionoriginallywiththeoilandwaterwouldbe
separated.ThinkpopthetoponaCoke.Bytakingadditionalpressuredropsthruchokesandseparators,thereducedvessel
pressureallowsdissolvedgastoseparateandflowoutthetopofthevessel.Obviously,themoretimefortheoilandwaterto
remainintheseparationchamberoftheseparator,thelesswaterwillstillbeinsuspensionwiththeoilandgasdissolvedin
bothliquids.
Hydrocylonesorothertechnologyisusedtoseparatethesmallamountsofoilfromtheprodwater.Thisoilwilltypicallybe
returnedtooneoftheseparatorstogothrutheprocessagain.
Residencetimewithinaseparatorcouldbeincreasedsothatalloilandwaterabsolutelyseparatebutthevesselwouldbeso
large/longandexpensivethatitwouldnotbepractical.
LSLL(levelsafetylowlow)levelsforboththeinterfaceandtheoillevelarecriticalasArtmentionsforasealagainstgasblow
thruandtokeepoilfromflowingoutthewaternozzle.Ontheoilfallseparator,theoillevelintheseparationchamberisnot
controlleddirectlybyacontrolvalveexitingthevessel.Itisaresultofhavingsufficientoilintheproducedfluidtokeepoilon
topofthewater.Ifwaterisremovedandnotenoughoilispresent,theoillevelcouldbebelowthetopoftheweir.Theremay
ormaynotbeaSDonthislowlowlevel.IftheinterfacereachesitsLSLL,theSDVontheprodwaterlinewouldclose.Forthe
uniformoillevelseparator,theLSLLisusuallyjustabovetheweirtop.
Justmyunderstandingofseparatordesignandcontrolandasalways,opentodiscussion.
Mike
Posted13April201103:11AM

ErwinAPRIANDI
HiAllJustTomakeitclear
pleasefindtheenclosedfilethatIgetfromShellDEP
AttachedFiles
(http://www.cheresources.com/invision/index.php?
app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=3660)3phase.JPG

(http://www.cheresources.com/invision/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=3660)
32.57KB227downloads

Posted13April201109:14AM

ArtMontemayor

Erwin:
Withoutadetailedexplanationofhowthesubmergedweirdesignworks,Iamafraidyouhavemuddiedthewatersmoreso,ratherthan
"madeitclear".
TherearesomanyunidentifiedlinesdrawnontheShellsketchthatitisconfusingwithoutadetailedexplanation.Ittakesmentalwork
toorganizeandproduceanexplanationthatmakesthingsclear.ShellOildoesn'tjustproduceasketchandthrowsitatyousayingthatit
sufficestomakethingsclear.TheirDEPisextensivelywritten,reviewed,illustrated,checked,andeditedtoensurethatthetechnical
explanationisclear.

Posted14April201110:18PM

ErwinAPRIANDI
DearArt,ApologizethatIjustuploadthesketchwithouthavingdetailexplanationforthesketch.
ActuallyDEPhasnotexplaintodetailontheprocessdescriptionforthesubmergedweir.

IjustwanttosaidthatIhaveseenthiskindof3phaseseparatorconstruct,commissioned,andoperatesinceIhaveseenone
underoperation
Themainreasonwhythistypeofseparatorischoosenisbecausetheamountofwaterflowisnottomuchifcomparewith
condesateandgasflow(howmuchistheratio,fromwhatIhavecheckfromthebalanceislessthan15%ofVolumeFlow)

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SowhatIcanexplainforthesubmergedweiris:
Whenthefeedgoinsidetheseparator
thegasandliquidwilldisengageand,theareaseparationabovetheliquidlevelshouldbeable
toensuretherequiredcriticalvelocityisachivedforgasliquiddisengagement
andmixtureofliquidwillbegoingtothecalmingbaffle,wheretheflowiscalmedsothattheseparationofheavyliquidand
lightliquidwilloccurred.Sincetheheavyliquidismuchlessthanthelightliquid
intheareaneartotheweiritisexpectedthattheseparationhasbeenachieveandmostoftheupperpartoftheliquidwillbe
occupiedbylightliquidthereforewhentheliquidpassthrutheweir,
mostoftheliquidaftertheweirwillmostlybealightliquid
I'mnotchalanginganyonehere,justtoelaboratethatsuchsubmersibleseparatorisexistanditisunderoperation,evenifyou
askmetochoosewhichonewhichIpreferablyusedformydesign,Iwouldbetterchoosetheoverflowweir,sincefromwhatI
knowfromtheoperator,thecarryoverofwaterinthelightliquidforthesubmersibleweirismuchhighercompareto
overflowweir(thisisbasedontheircomparisonofProductionSeparator(submersibleweir)PerformanceVSTestSeparator
(overflowweir)
HopethishasmadeitclearArt,
Posted15April201106:10AM

smalawi

notrelated,butShellOilistheUScompanyandusestheEGGS,andDEPisusedShelloutsideUS(RDS),recentlytherewasa
movetocombinethese.AlsotheDEP'sareverydetailedindeedasArtindicated,yettheyareconfidentialandusedwith
permission
Posted21April201107:34AM

Elizabeth_I
Thanksforsharingthisusefulinformation.It'sgreat!

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