Scorpio Archetype

Deva
Scorpio archetype
on: Oct 17, 2010, 09:14 AM
Moderator
Active Member
Scorpio archetype- I have been asked to moderate the thread for the Scorpio
Posts: 144
archetype. I thought we would start by understanding the archetype in its natural

form, and then discuss the distorted, or conditioned, expression.
Scorpio is a fixed archetype, female (energy moving towards the center), and
water. This archetype comes after Libra where we were initiating relationships with
others in order to learn about our own identity through comparison and contrast,
and learn equality in a personal and social relationships in general. In the
archetype of Libra, we are learning to balance extremes in our nature, or inwardly
unite discordant aspects of our nature.
Now, in the archetype of Scorpio, we are facing our own personal limitations in
order to transmute, or evolve, beyond those limitations. Scorpio correlates with
the Soul, and the principle of evolution. We become aware of universal forces, or a
higher source power, and we desire to merge with it in order to affect personal
growth and evolution. In this archetype we confront the brightest aspects of our
nature, and the darkest parts of our nature. We then make choices to transmute
limitations and evolve out of past patterns of behavior that are inhibiting growth,
or to maintain these past behaviors. We also make choices about who we will
commit to in relationships, and whom not. In other words, the Scorpio archetype
correlates with the need to merge with a higher source of power in order to
achieve evolution. In so doing, we must confront our pre-exiting limitations and
make a commitment to grow past them.
Scorpio correlates with the need to penetrate to the bottom line, and is thus
perpetually asking the question why. Scorpio correlates with the entire field of
psychology, and the ability to penetrate oneself and others from a psychological
point of view. Scorpio correlates with dynamics, or patterns of behavior, that
provide us with a deep sense of unconscious emotional security. In this sense, it
indicates areas of over- emotional investment. This archetype reflects obsessions
and compulsions that we may have. When these behaviors create a situation of
non-growth and stagnation, the famous rug must then be pulled from underneath
the feet in order to promote the necessary lessons of self-reliance reflected in the
Taurus polarity point. This experiences and memories creates fears of
abandonment, betrayal and loss.
In a natural expression of this archetype the person will motivate others to
transmute and grow past their pre-existing limitations in a non-manipulative
manner (without promoting a dependency upon him or herself). In addition, the
person will be willing and able to confront their own limitations and affect the
necessary metamorphosis without being dependant upon another or an external
source of power. In a distorted, or conditioned, expression the person will
manipulate other to have their own ulterior motives and agendas meet. The
person may become obsessed with an external source that represents the power
they are seeking, and manipulate it for their own ends. Defensiveness and
resistance to change are also negative manifestations of the this archetype. The
point within this is that this archetype reflects the need for growth, transmutation,
and evolution. We experience power and powerlessness relative the dynamics that
are known, and those that are not. It is our own response, and choice making, to
these experiences and to the underlying need to evolve that dictates how this
archetype will be expressed. In its best form, we have natural psychologists, and
those that are very committed to helping others overcome their limitations and
motivate others to do the necessary inner work. In contrast, in a negative
expression, we have those who manifest a compulsive need to maintain past ways
of being, and overtly or covertly manipulate others and sources of power for their
own self-benefit. The Taurus polarity point reflects the need to learn self-reliance,
and self-simplicity. We must look inside ourselves to identify our own inherent
resources to affect survival, and self-reliance. The underlying need is to merge
with a higher source of power, or another person, in a non-dependant manner. In
this way, we are able to purge the limitations of our past and continue to grow to
greater heights of personal evolution.
I would like to invite others to post their insights and questions about this
archtype.
God Bless
Deva
expression, we have those who manifest a compulsive need to maintain past ways
of being, and overtly or covertly manipulate others and sources of power for their
own self-benefit. The Taurus polarity point reflects the need to learn self-reliance,
and self-simplicity. We must look inside ourselves to identify our own inherent
resources to affect survival, and self-reliance. The underlying need is to merge
with a higher source of power, or another person, in a non-dependant manner. In
this way, we are able to purge the limitations of our past and continue to grow to
greater heights of personal evolution.
I would like to invite others to post their insights and questions about this
archtype.
God Bless
Deva
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Linda
Re: Scorpio archetype
Most Active
Reply #1 on: Oct 18, 2010, 02:17 AM
Member
Posts: 931
Hi Deva,
Thank you for accepting to moderate this thread, and for your thorough
introduction of the Scorpio archetype.
My understanding of Scorpio is that it is the archetype of the "natural
psychologist." It possesses deep self-knowledge of its own motivations, desires
and patterns, and is also able to penetrate into the core of others.
Since Scorpio is the sign that correlates to the evolution of anything, this
archetype is very aware of its own limitations, and therefore has a desire to move
beyond those limitations. It can evolve in a number of ways, but can also
stubbornly resist change due to its fixed nature.
The power that it seeks can be used for exceptionally good purposes such as
healing. This type of Scorpio is referred to as the 'dove' or the Phoenix, it is
gentle, compassionate, sincere and a great advocate of the weak. Since Scorpio is
also the archetype for 'evil,' it can become horribly distorted when its purposes are
selfish in nature (the scorpion). This can lead to behaviours such as obsession,
compulsion, domination, manipulation and having power over others for its own
purposes. The "black and white" Scorpio archetype has the capacity for great
good or great harm.
Since Scorpio is aware of its own limitations, its strong desire nature leads it to
merge and absorb the power from powerful symbols and sources so as to effect
metamorphosis, that is, attain greater levels of personal growth and evolution.
These symbols of power can be almost anything such as relationships, knowledge,
status, money, sex, spirituality, etc., depending on the level of evolution.
Since this archetype has a deep fascination with sexual energy, sexual union is a
way it can metamorphose its limitations. Scorpio is really looking for a partner
with whom it resonates with on a deep soul level, but in casual relationships, when
it has fulfilled some sexual need connected with power, it can easily discard the
other. This gives it the reputation for behaving like the 'black widow spider.'
When the tables are turned, however, this archetype can suffer deep betrayal,
abandonment, and violations of trust issues which can take lifetimes to resolve.
There is a need for Scorpio to develop more trust, to 'let go,' to surrender, and to
be more open about its feelings.
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Skywalker
Active Member
Reply #2 on: Oct 19, 2010, 06:08 AM
Posts: 184
Hello to everyone on the forum, Im new here but not new to Astrology or EA. Am
currently taking the correspondence course to deepen my knowledge in EA and felt
now was the right time to register. Being a last degree Scorpio I would like to
chime in on this topic and offer some insight.
For me, Scorpio is where we choose good or evil, light or darkness, love or hate.
It is only when we understand and face our own compulsions head on that we truly
When the tables are turned, however, this archetype can suffer deep betrayal,
abandonment, and violations of trust issues which can take lifetimes to resolve.
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Skywalker
Active Member
Reply #2 on: Oct 19, 2010, 06:08 AM
Posts: 184
Hello to everyone on the forum, Im new here but not new to Astrology or EA. Am
currently taking the correspondence course to deepen my knowledge in EA and felt
now was the right time to register. Being a last degree Scorpio I would like to
chime in on this topic and offer some insight.
For me, Scorpio is where we choose good or evil, light or darkness, love or hate.
It is only when we understand and face our own compulsions head on that we truly
get to know ourselves and others, thru this process we must face our darkest and
ugliest aspects in order to let the light shine on our potential. How can we choose
what is right if we aernt conscious of what really motivates us? Thru Scorpio we
descend to the underworld (our own personal hell) in order to find out who we
really are. What makes us tick and why. In this process of self discovery we
CHOOSE which side we are on, who to be and what we want to evolve into as
individuals.
So Scorpio seems to be related to free will and choice. Scorpio is where, thru reliving the same cycles again and again we can consciously make a choice to
change our patterns. We all know the feeling when our fundamental security is
threatened or when we are re-living a pattern that keeps playing out in our lives.
For example when we are afraid of losing someone we love due to insecurities or
jealousy. Scorpio here correlates to the fear of loss and betrayal, the re-living of
these themes and also the awareness that arises from such experiences. Therefore
only after dealing with these issues and diving deep into ourselves may we be free
of subconscious fears in order to be able to make a conscious choice based on free
will. Such as the choice to not take action based on vindictive impulses, therefore
breaking a pattern.
In the case of the example above, thru the Taurus polarity of self reliance,
patience and emotional stability one could learn to stay calm and objective in such
a situation and wait things out instead of creating the typical emotional crisis that
Scorpio tends to create when threatened. Scorpio also needs to learn objectivity
thru the natural square to Aquarius.
Sometimes Scorpio could benefit from just chilling out and observing others and
itself, calmly and patiently.
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Deva
Moderator
Reply #3 on: Oct 19, 2010, 07:36 AM
Active Member
Posts: 144
Hi, skywalker. Thanks so much for your input about the Scorpio archetype. It is
very insightful and, in a true Scorpio fashion, right the to the point! I am open for
input about what would be helpful to others to continue this thread. Examples of
those with a predominate Scorpio in their chart? Questions from others about
those who have Scorpio in their chart, etc? Please let me know what you all feel
would be helpful at this point.
God Bless
Deva
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Dhyana
Very Active
Reply #4 on: Oct 19, 2010, 12:17 PM
Member
Posts: 490
SCORPIO ARCHETYPE
those who have Scorpio in their chart, etc? Please let me know what you all feel
would be helpful at this point.
God Bless
Deva
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Dhyana
Very Active
Reply #4 on: Oct 19, 2010, 12:17 PM
Member
Posts: 490
SCORPIO ARCHETYPE
I wanted to jump in too. With a South Node, Mercury and Neptune in Scorpio (H9)
I would totally second what SKYWALKER has shared. Scorpio energy is very
intense and as much as we would try to run and hide from some of the darker
aspects of Scorpio, it somehow comes to find us and finally, we must meet the
human shadow face to face,one way or another either in ourselves or in projected
form outside of ourselves.
Scorpio is always looking for hidden motives and agendas of others, especially
when much of it's nativie's dark side has been repressed and unconsciously
projected. It can have a great element of paranoia to it as well.
I feel what Scorpio is calling us to at the core, is to reckon with all that is hated
and deemed dark and ugly within the human condition by shining the light of
consciousness unto it rather than continuing to run, ignore and repress it . For it
is in the continual covering over and running from the repressed material of
human shadow (because it is very uncomfortable to be with) that it's negative
aspects gain more momentum and power. But the promise is a literal rebirth and
transformation, and true power that is Natural and without agenda.
There is a possibility of a very deep and sacred liberation for the soul, when one
has a strong Scorpio signature. But it takes real courage because some of what
one may find there is extreme and difficult to look at and let move through and
transform you and in this culture there is often not too much support for this deep
kind of penetrating.
It is those with a strong Scorpio signature that have actually met what most think
they could never meet and come out the other end healed, that can truly aid
others who are fearing and running from their own darkenss, projected out as
"other" or "internally", and to help to embrace all of it, in the Heart --the HEART of
the Universe -- and have a true rebirth. In my experience, I have found that
nothing but the Authentic Space of the UNIVERSAL HEART, that is found in the
very core of our own heart and soul, can deal with this kind of energy.
There is so much more I could share about the Scorpio Archetype, firsthand --but
for now I this is what came.
-------------this youtube clip can add to my description
"Self Hatred"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpwfIE1ilio&feature=player_embedded
(give it a couple minutes to get to the heart of the message ---around 3minutes in
it really gets to the crux.) I really feel it's worth the listen.
Real Peace,
Dhyana
Last Edit: Oct 21, 2010, 01:29 AM by

Dhyana
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Linda
Most Active
Reply #5 on: Oct 20, 2010, 01:32 AM
Member
Posts: 931
Skywalker and Dhyana,

I enjoyed reading both of your interpretations of the Scorpio archetype. Welcome
to the MB Skywalker.
Deva,
Real Peace,
Dhyana

Dhyana
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Linda
Most Active
Reply #5 on: Oct 20, 2010, 01:32 AM
Member
Posts: 931
Skywalker and Dhyana,

I enjoyed reading both of your interpretations of the Scorpio archetype. Welcome
to the MB Skywalker.
Deva,
Your quote: "Please let me know what you all feel would be helpful at this point."
The question arising for me now is: Did Scorpio's 'dark' reputation come about
due to patriarchal distortion? Has many thousands of years of patriarchal
conditioning bred and stored the dark aspects of the Scorpio archetype within the
psyche of man?
I imagine that the undistorted expression during the long period of time of the
Matriarchy would have been connected to healing of oneself and others, rising
above limitations and deep communion with the Divine. After all, the higher levels
of Scorpio are so full of healing, grace and compassion.
I'd also be interested in hearing your views, Deva, of the Scorpio North Node. I
like what you wrote in your introduction: "We become aware of universal forces,
or a higher source power, and we desire to merge with it in order to affect
personal growth and evolution."
Here's something I'd like to share with the thread which encapsulates the serious
devotion of the Scorpio archetype within the Spiritual evolutionary condition: it
expresses the deepest depths of despair and the highest of highs!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oObNTYIvWw4
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Deva
Moderator
Reply #6 on: Oct 20, 2010, 09:47 AM
Active Member
Posts: 144
Hi Linda, it is a good point you bring up in terms of addressing how the natural
archetype of Scorpio has been distorted through man-made, or Patriarchal
conditioning. The way I would answer your question is that, in natural times,
there was a natural understanding, or awareness, that we all have a shadow to
face. Thus, the Plutonian, or Scorpio, process of cyclic death, re-birth, and
personal re-generation was embraced as a natural part of life. Many of us can feel,
at a subliminal level at least, that there are dark or unhealthy aspects within
ourselves that we must eliminate, or purge, in order to continue to grow. Yet,
because of how we are conditioned, or culturally trained, to view such aspects
within ourselves we are not comfortable accepting such dynamics which leads to
resistance to growth and defensiveness to change. In other words, we may have
internalized the message that we are dark and/or evil based on patriarchal
judgments and standards, which leads to resistance to accepting the unhealthy
dynamics within ourselves that need to change in order to evolve. Many people
tend to hide from, or resist facing, their shadow. The point within this is that, in
natural times and through aligning with natural law, we manifest the Scorpio
archetype in a healthy or empowered state. We accept that facing our shadow, or
our dark side, is a natural part of life and evolution itself (it does not make us dark
or evil to face or recognize these dynamics within ourselves). We cannot change or
evolve if we do not confront these dynamics within ourselves. When we manifest
the Scorpio archetype this way, there is consistent growth and evolution, and a
commit is made to resolving whatever issues need to confronted at any moment in
time in a open and non-defensive manner.
This eliminate unnecessary confrontations of a negative nature with others. In
addition, the power trips or power struggles with others will cease because we
are seeking to re-empower ourselves and others, not to over- power, use, or
devotion of the Scorpio archetype within the Spiritual evolutionary condition: it

expresses the deepest depths of despair and the highest of highs!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oObNTYIvWw4
Logged
Deva
Moderator
Reply #6 on: Oct 20, 2010, 09:47 AM
Active Member
Posts: 144
Hi Linda, it is a good point you bring up in terms of addressing how the natural
archetype of Scorpio has been distorted through man-made, or Patriarchal
conditioning. The way I would answer your question is that, in natural times,
there was a natural understanding, or awareness, that we all have a shadow to
face. Thus, the Plutonian, or Scorpio, process of cyclic death, re-birth, and
personal re-generation was embraced as a natural part of life. Many of us can feel,
at a subliminal level at least, that there are dark or unhealthy aspects within
ourselves that we must eliminate, or purge, in order to continue to grow. Yet,
because of how we are conditioned, or culturally trained, to view such aspects
within ourselves we are not comfortable accepting such dynamics which leads to
resistance to growth and defensiveness to change. In other words, we may have
internalized the message that we are dark and/or evil based on patriarchal
judgments and standards, which leads to resistance to accepting the unhealthy
dynamics within ourselves that need to change in order to evolve. Many people
tend to hide from, or resist facing, their shadow. The point within this is that, in
natural times and through aligning with natural law, we manifest the Scorpio
archetype in a healthy or empowered state. We accept that facing our shadow, or
our dark side, is a natural part of life and evolution itself (it does not make us dark
or evil to face or recognize these dynamics within ourselves). We cannot change or
evolve if we do not confront these dynamics within ourselves. When we manifest
the Scorpio archetype this way, there is consistent growth and evolution, and a
commit is made to resolving whatever issues need to confronted at any moment in
time in a open and non-defensive manner.
This eliminate unnecessary confrontations of a negative nature with others. In
addition, the power trips or power struggles with others will cease because we
are seeking to re-empower ourselves and others, not to over- power, use, or
manipulate others. In other words, we help others re-empower themselves and do
not allow others to place us in a position of authority or power in their life ( we
give power back to them so to speak). We all know the horrible stories of those
who have abused power given to them in extreme ways, and that, in the end,
have been exposed.
In terms of the North Node in Scorpio, in a general sense, it is about transmuting
the frog in the well orientation reflected by the South Node in Taurus. The
person must open up to new ways of being in general that expand upon the
capacities and resources that person has already identified to affect survival and
self-relaince (South Node in Taurus). It reflects the need to merge with others,
and a higher source of power, in order to transmute pre-existing limitations. The
person will most likely experience confrontations with others about these issues in
order to expose the person to his or limitations of this nature, and to promote the
necessary evolutionary changes that must be made for this life. In addition, it
implies that the person must come to understand him or herself in psychological
terms, and penetrate others in the same way. This allows the necessary
metamorphosis symbolized by the North Node in Scorpio to manifest. Of course,
these are general correlations. We must apply the principles of the Pluto
paradigm to fully understand the evolutionary intentions/needs for the person
who has and South Node in Taurus, and the North Node in Scorpio.
Hope this address your question, Linda, and please let me know if it does not.
God Bless
Deva
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mountainhea
ther
Reply #7 on: Oct 20, 2010, 01:40 PM
Active Member
Posts: 192
Hi, thank you for the opportunity to look at thses archetypes.

My thoughts and feelings have been in the Sedna goddess archetype on another
thread and I keep thinking Scorpio with regards to her and yes her sun sn is in
Scorpio 4th house. So, I do feel her betrayal and tranformation into a spiritual
healing prescence in our deep emotional realm is such a beatiful illustration of this
archetype. I feel the betrayal of Scorpio is natural. It involves the death of
something an ideal or projection so that truth may emerge. Scorpio's intense
who has and South Node in Taurus, and the North Node in Scorpio.
Hope this address your question, Linda, and please let me know if it does not.
God Bless
Deva
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mountainhea
ther
Reply #7 on: Oct 20, 2010, 01:40 PM
Active Member
Posts: 192
Hi, thank you for the opportunity to look at thses archetypes.

My thoughts and feelings have been in the Sedna goddess archetype on another
thread and I keep thinking Scorpio with regards to her and yes her sun sn is in
Scorpio 4th house. So, I do feel her betrayal and tranformation into a spiritual
healing prescence in our deep emotional realm is such a beatiful illustration of this
archetype. I feel the betrayal of Scorpio is natural. It involves the death of
something an ideal or projection so that truth may emerge. Scorpio's intense
nature can be distorted or misunderstood, but underneath that is the desire to get
to the bottom of things, the real truth as it relates to the soul. I feel that the
ability to understand symbolism is Scorpio, to get archetypes, out of necessity in
fact, in order to make sense of the metaphysical and emotional content that it is
immersed in. Scorpio is the Goddesses way of showing us that the life death life
cycle that permeates every aspect of our lives is deeply meaningful and
nourishing. And as I said in the other thread it is not trusting this divine cycle of
things dying and birthing that is the distortion I feel when in this archetype. This
then leads to the decision to trust something greater and powerful lik the Goddess
or try and take it into our own hands this is scorpios realm from my perspective.
Thank you, I have so enjoyed and learned much from everyone's posts.
Heather, oh yeah I have moon in Scorpio 12 house and Neptune in Scorpio
exactly conj my ascendant and that Pluto transit through those in my 20s-30s...
Thank you EA for helping to make sense of it! Heather
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Dhyana
Very Active
Reply #8 on: Oct 20, 2010, 02:49 PM
Member
Posts: 490
Thanks for this articulation mountainheather,it really resonates:

mountainheather writes: Scorpio is the Goddesses way of showing us that the
life death life cycle that permeates every aspect of our lives is deeply meaningful
and nourishing. ........ And it is not trusting this divine cycle of things dying and
birthing that is the distortion.... This then leads to the decision to trust something
greater and powerful like the Goddess ..."
Peace,
Dhyana
Last Edit: Oct 20, 2010, 09:22 PM by

Dhyana
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Eric
Member
Reply #9 on: Oct 20, 2010, 03:04 PM
Posts: 47
Hi All and thanks Deva for moderating,

In Scorpionic fashion, I'd like to take a stab at this.
Scorpio is the gateway, the gatekeeper, and the moderator in its' trinity with
Cancer and Pisces. Scorpio says we can do this the easy way or we can do this
hard way but eventually we are going to do this. While it may seem that Scorpio
prefers the hard way, this is only so because because our sense of security is so
freshly rooted in the bottom of the chart-Cancer. Scorpio itself has patience,
knowing that everything must pass through it's domain.
In Cancer we seem to manifest spontaneously, having forgotten our deeper roots
in Pisces. As this is the home of ego and the beginning of recognition of ourselves
in relation to the material world, we go about our business condensing experiences
into a container that appears limitless from our freshly minted perspective. A
perspective which informs us that we can remain in this cuddly place, suckling
moms tit indefinitely. Eventually, the moment comes when one must leave the
sacred tit and venture out into the world. Because we have become so identified
with this condensed material form, the preconscious Piscean dreams we may have
hard way but eventually we are going to do this. While it may seem that Scorpio
prefers the hard way, this is only so because because our sense of security is so
freshly rooted in the bottom of the chart-Cancer. Scorpio itself has patience,
knowing that everything must pass through it's domain.
In Cancer we seem to manifest spontaneously, having forgotten our deeper roots
in Pisces. As this is the home of ego and the beginning of recognition of ourselves
in relation to the material world, we go about our business condensing experiences
into a container that appears limitless from our freshly minted perspective. A
perspective which informs us that we can remain in this cuddly place, suckling
moms tit indefinitely. Eventually, the moment comes when one must leave the
sacred tit and venture out into the world. Because we have become so identified
with this condensed material form, the preconscious Piscean dreams we may have
had ( or indeed they may have been nightmares) as suckling babies recede into
mist reinforcing the construct that I am just this material body flung into a
material world. This reminds me of the dubious exclamation which probably took
hold during the industrial revolution " so and so is a person of substance"!
And here is the rub. If we are fully and completely filled with this illusion, when we
come to Scorpio ( and all of us must) we are hammered not by Scorpio, but by our
own attachment to this particular piece of meat we have temporarily inherited.
Scorpio doesn't care. It just says "next"? The cool and aloof persona we project
onto Scorpio is because we haven't yet learned how Scorpio likes to play.
Scorpio beckons as a lover. It entices. It whispers erotic poetry hoping to attract a
mate who can shed the security blanket of ego and dance freely with their soul.
The stakes are not trivial, for this is serious fun. Here one moment, gone the
next. This is the clean whoosh home versus the agony of the rack. As the
gatekeeper on the highway of transmigration, Scorpio says all must pass. At some
point on the endless commute, on the edge of your peripheral vision you might
catch a glimpse of the express lane. Note to self...bring soul next time.
One more thought that applies to the distorted western archetype of Scorpio:
At the dawn of Christianity, in some circles, transmigration of the soul was
understood to be a natural part of the cycle of life. Of course this had to be
stamped out by the full weight of the burgeoning church if they were to capitalize
on their evolving mythos of Jesus and in this case his resurrection. We hear from
stage left in a booming male authoritative voice.... "only the son of GOD can be
resurrected into eternal life" and the subtitle reads " either accept this as the
truth, or you'll get to experience whatever afterlife you believe in momentarily and
sorry to tell you this but it'll be gruesome".
Death came to be feared, and rightfully so in the context of ordained barbarianism.
The Grim Reaper.
Oh... Happy Halloween
Blessings,
Eric
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Linda
Most Active
Reply #10 on: Oct 20, 2010, 05:15 PM
Member
Posts: 931
Deva, thank you for your further elucidation.

Heather, I'm feeling more trust in the Divine life-death-life cycle in the way you
describe it.
Eric, fun reading you! - your insights are filled with truth.
The Sun moves into Scorpio in 3 days time, and perhaps we'll go even deeper in
our explorations.
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Dhyana
Very Active
Reply #11 on: Oct 21, 2010, 01:11 AM
Member
Posts: 490
If I remembered before, I would have added this youtube clip to the end of my
recent post to elaborate a bit on what I shared there-in......
Oh... Happy Halloween

Blessings,
Eric
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Linda
Most Active
Reply #10 on: Oct 20, 2010, 05:15 PM
Member
Posts: 931
Deva, thank you for your further elucidation.

Heather, I'm feeling more trust in the Divine life-death-life cycle in the way you
describe it.
Eric, fun reading you! - your insights are filled with truth.
The Sun moves into Scorpio in 3 days time, and perhaps we'll go even deeper in
our explorations.
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Dhyana
Very Active
Reply #11 on: Oct 21, 2010, 01:11 AM
Member
Posts: 490
If I remembered before, I would have added this youtube clip to the end of my
recent post to elaborate a bit on what I shared there-in......
"Self Hatred"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpwfIE1ilio&feature=player_embedded
Give it a little time because after the first 3 minutes it gets much more to the
point...
....it's only about 8 minutes long. I think it is really worth the listen.
Thanks,
Dhyana

Dhyana
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Dhyana
Very Active
Reply #12 on: Oct 21, 2010, 01:59 AM
Member
Posts: 490
Eric,
I LOVED your post!!! ... what a great descrpition!
And when you wrote - "And here is the rub. If we are fully and completely filled
with this illusion, when we come to Scorpio ( and all of us must) we are hammered
not by Scorpio, but by our own attachment to this particular piece of meat we
have temporarily inherited. Scorpio doesn't care. It just says "next"? The cool and
aloof persona we project onto Scorpio is because we haven't yet learned how
Scorpio likes to play......." I just inwardly applauded so loud! (well, applauded
through all of it actually.)
Thank you brother! You nailed it! (at least for me!)
So Happy Halloween to you too,
Real Peace,
Dhyana

Dhyana
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Skywalker
Active Member
Reply #13 on: Oct 21, 2010, 04:02 AM
Posts: 184
Thank you all for welcoming me. This board is truly rich in information and full of
Thanks,
Dhyana

Dhyana
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Dhyana
Very Active
Reply #12 on: Oct 21, 2010, 01:59 AM
Member
Posts: 490
Eric,
I LOVED your post!!! ... what a great descrpition!
And when you wrote - "And here is the rub. If we are fully and completely filled
with this illusion, when we come to Scorpio ( and all of us must) we are hammered
not by Scorpio, but by our own attachment to this particular piece of meat we
have temporarily inherited. Scorpio doesn't care. It just says "next"? The cool and
aloof persona we project onto Scorpio is because we haven't yet learned how
Scorpio likes to play......." I just inwardly applauded so loud! (well, applauded
through all of it actually.)
Thank you brother! You nailed it! (at least for me!)
So Happy Halloween to you too,
Real Peace,
Dhyana

Dhyana
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Skywalker
Active Member
Reply #13 on: Oct 21, 2010, 04:02 AM
Posts: 184
Thank you all for welcoming me. This board is truly rich in information and full of
people with a sincere desire to evolve thru Astrology and help others with this
amazing tool.
I liked what MountainHeather wrote about Scorpios connection to archetypes, it
makes sense as archetypes seem to be a symbolic language of the Soul.
It is also quite obvious that the Scorpio archetype has been distorted in the sense
that most major societies of the present day tend to avoid death at all costs and
see it as something to be feared. When in fact it should be respected and included
as part of the cycle of life. Actually it is thru the fear of death (resistance to
change and fear of loss of control) that we as a species are controlled and
manipulated by those in positions of power. If we were to accept death and reincarnation as something natural, it would be harder to have control over us. We
would see life as an evolutionary journey instead of something to hold on to
desperately and, would be able to make the transition from this world to the next
with grace. With no fear of death but a celebration of the cycles of life, death and
rebirth we would be freer than we are today. Hopefully this is changing and in the
future death will be embraced and, life will naturally have more meaning (Taurus).
Something I would like to get into is Scorpio and its connection to suicide.
I would like to delve into this topic as suicide can be a bit of a taboo even for
Scorpios. I hope this isnt too heavy and can be useful for anyone reading the MB.
Suicide is of course related to Scorpio although not necessarily entirely, but most
matters connected to death and rebirth are. Suicide can be for various reasons
such as but not limited to:
Extreme physical, emotional or mental pain.
An attempt to free oneself from a situation in which there is no apparent way out,
such as having a chronic illness or being trapped or stagnated for a long period of
time.
An attempt to avoid taking responsibility for negative actions such as avoiding
going to prison for a crime.
Suicide is of course related to Scorpio although not necessarily entirely, but most
matters connected to death and rebirth are. Suicide can be for various reasons
such as but not limited to:
Extreme physical, emotional or mental pain.
An attempt to free oneself from a situation in which there is no apparent way out,
such as having a chronic illness or being trapped or stagnated for a long period of
time.
An attempt to avoid taking responsibility for negative actions such as avoiding
going to prison for a crime.
Guilt of hurting others so deeply that their wounds are beyond repair.
As a way of inflicting life long wounds and a way of maintaining a karmic bond to
someone that has betrayed or abandoned us. Sounds extreme but it does happen!
Pride and arrogance in trying to be captain of ones own life therefore resisting
surrendering to forces larger than oneself.
The inability to adapt to a new situation where one is forced to adapt, due to
Scorpios fixed nature this can be challenging. A little bit like being in a bardo in
between the old and the new. Where everything loses meaning and Scorpio loses
touch with its emotions.
Intense frustration and rage due to a situation that has reached its limit, leading to
rash decisions and self destructive actions out of pure impulse.
Honor and integrity such as being loyal to ones country in time of war and
commiting suicide in order to avoid revealing secret information that could hurt
fellow countrymen. This can actually be seen as self sacrifice and not merely
suicide.
Scorpio correlates with evolution as well as resistance to the evolutionary impulse.
That is why it can commit suicide, as the resistance or fear can be so intense that
the person would rather end his/her life than deal with the evolutionary process.
These themes can come up at key points in peoples lives. Generally thru transits
or progressions, these themes can be emphasized and, generally will involve Pluto
stressfully aspecting planets or sensitive points in the chart, the 8th house and its
ruler, stressful aspects to Pluto or a combination of various aspects at the same
time.
It is also important to look at the natal chart for this potential to be trigerred by
transits or progressions... not everyone with a Pluto transit is going to jump off a
bridge!
Maybe someone else would like to delve into the potential solutions in counselling
clients that are potentially suicidal?
I would just like to add that by looking into the polarity point and the natural
squares to Leo and Aquarius there can be some keys to minimize the desire to
commit suicide. Such as indicating that thru detachment and objective awareness
(Aquarius) one can gain perspective and insight into a desperate situation. Or by
the force of ones creative spark (Leo) one can find a way to radiate life and joy
again. And of course the Taurus polarity of self reliance, calmness and survival
which is what Scorpio needs to embrace.
Some people deal with the lack of will to live by doing charity work for people that
are less fortunate and live in terrible social conditions. This can be correlated to
the natural trines to Piscies and Cancer. Im suffering but at least I can serve the
whole in doing so one will also be nurtured in one way or another (Cancer) and
the sextile to Virgo, in the sense that thru service, one has the opportunity to
cleanse and heal.
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Wendy
Very Active
Reply #14 on: Oct 21, 2010, 07:36 PM
Member
Some people deal with the lack of will to live by doing charity work for people that
are less fortunate and live in terrible social conditions. This can be correlated to
the natural trines to Piscies and Cancer. Im suffering but at least I can serve the
whole in doing so one will also be nurtured in one way or another (Cancer) and
the sextile to Virgo, in the sense that thru service, one has the opportunity to
cleanse and heal.
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Wendy
Very Active
Reply #14 on: Oct 21, 2010, 07:36 PM
Member
Posts: 452
Quote from: Linda on Oct 18, 2010, 02:17 AM

Hi All,
I've been working a great deal and just getting back to the board and wanted to
jump in.
Linda I would like to talk more about the quote above...more trust, more open
about its feelings. Can you elaborate more?
Also I'm wondering if it would be okay to post a chart of a client I am working
with? She came to see me years ago for bodywork/healing and sometimes we
delved into astrology. I spoke with her today and she wants to go deeper. She
has a grand cross with Pluto Scorpio-2, SN Scorpio-10 in the 4th, opposing Taurus
Moon and Taurus NN, square Venus in Leo and Jupiter in Aquarius.
Maybe her chart would be useful for this thread, even though her sun archetype is
not Scorpio, and especially while transiting Venus in Scorpio is activating her Pluto
in Scorpio (which I believe she has no conscious recollection of).
It's great to go deeper in our study as we move deeper into autumn!
Blessings everyone,
Wendy
Hi Dhyana, all
It's significant as far as understanding the meaning of all that Capricorn in his
chart.
This soul had a Saturn Uranus conjunction, which squared the 4th/10th nodes, in
Capricorn. The south node of Saturn, which is the ruler for all of that Capricorn in
the 8th, is at 28 degrees Capricorn conjunct natal Lucifer in the 9th.
The Lucifer, in combination with the 8th house energies operating via the
Capricorn archetype, and the square to the 10th 4th nodes speaks so strongly
about this soul's difficulty with life in the first place. How strong this temptation
must have been for him. Bless this soul. May he may find peace and overcome
the temptation to give up in his next life.
The north node of all the sn planets in Capricorn are all in Cancer in the second
house- correlating to the evolutionary intent to develop emotional self reliance.
For lifetimes, this soul has repressed his emotional reality based on family and
social obligations/duties or judgments to a very strong degree.
Wendy, this is a really good example, especially for when it comes to
understanding the inherent connection Lucifer seems to have to the Scorpio
archetype.
JWG often gave the example of a male in our current society with the Moon in
Pisces. How easy is it to be so sensitive in a society that judges, and is innately
unsupported of such a thing? Place that Moon in the 10th house, conjunct the
ruler of the sn which is in the 4th house, and the ruler of that Pisces being
Neptune in Capricorn in the 8th- we see an ego structure that is grossly aware of
what is appropriate and not appropriate, what is safe and not safe- has learned
to repress and tuck away its emotional needs on the basis of having been greatly
abandoned in the past. Now sure what his ea state is, but this also could easily
also be linked to gender role stuff. Sounds like he is somewhere in the
individuated state or maybe beginning of spiritual?
archetype.
JWG often gave the example of a male in our current society with the Moon in
Pisces. How easy is it to be so sensitive in a society that judges, and is innately
unsupported of such a thing? Place that Moon in the 10th house, conjunct the
ruler of the sn which is in the 4th house, and the ruler of that Pisces being
Neptune in Capricorn in the 8th- we see an ego structure that is grossly aware of
what is appropriate and not appropriate, what is safe and not safe- has learned
to repress and tuck away its emotional needs on the basis of having been greatly
abandoned in the past. Now sure what his ea state is, but this also could easily
also be linked to gender role stuff. Sounds like he is somewhere in the
individuated state or maybe beginning of spiritual?
Pluto in Scorpio in the 6th house, opposing Venus in Taurus in the 12th, gibbous
phase, again points to the evolutionary lesson in forgiveness and to value life.
As Wendy pointed out, this suicide coincided during the transit of Pluto through
the beginning of his 8th house, moving through those Capricorn planets- as well
as the transiting lunar nodes. The last few years for him have been very
emotionally catalyzing, this would have been an immense time period in his life
no matter what.
This teaches me, again, that it takes immense desire and determination
surrender to the evolutionary process. Resistance to change (Scorpio) intensifies
the darkness, until a soul finally accepts that there's no way out but through.
With Love,
Ari Moshe
Hi Linda
Quote from: Linda on Nov 06,
2010, 03:40 PM
You say the polarity point (or house)
needs "activation." Does this mean
that this polarity point actually lies
DORMANT in the psyche, that the Soul
is already aware of it, hence the Soul
(Pluto) forces one to activate the
polarity point in order to expand, to
transmute the existing limitation, to
learn new lessons and new ways?
In a way you could say its dormant, in
that it is a potential. Basically it
means these are qualities the Soul has
not yet become aware of, or has not
yet integrated into its nature. The
Soul is, directly or indirectly, aware of
the polarity point, since the Soul
picked the Pluto location in the first
place. As the polarity point is inherent
in any planet's location, the Soul by
definition was aware it was also
picking the polarity point. Rad had
discussion of this within the last week
on another thread. The principle of
polarity point applies to all planets,
not just to Pluto. That is how
evolution unfolds - its part of Natural
Law, how things were created by
Creator.
Quote
Are there examples where the polarity
point has already been activated in
the past, eg a planet conjunct the
polarity point?
I wouldn't word it as "already been
activated" because once the polarity
evolution unfolds - its part of Natural

Law, how things were created by
Creator.
Quote
Are there examples where the polarity
point has already been activated in
the past, eg a planet conjunct the
polarity point?
I wouldn't word it as "already been
activated" because once the polarity
point is fully activated, it is likely there
would be little or no growth there.
Because the point has been learning
the lessons. Once we have learned
the lessons the Soul would go on to
some other position it felt it did not
have down and wanted to work on
developing. I would word what you
are saying as effort had been put
towards activating the polarity.
One that comes to mind is Pluto
squaring Nodes, skipped steps, when
effort would have gone into moving
forward in the past.
Pluto conjunct
NN, as you mentioned. But also,

remembering that the nodes are the
vehicle the Soul uses TO evolve, when
you see signs movement towards the
north node had occurred in the past rulers of both nodes conjunct, or
conjunct the opposing node as
examples - then you can see that the
effort was actually towards activating
the Pluto polarity point. In other
words, a way the Soul moves towards
its polarity point is through the
personality moving towards its north
node/NN ruler. That indirectly
CAUSES the Soul to learn to do its
Pluto point in new ways - the new
ways learned relate to Pluto's polarity
point.
Quote
I thought that the "old stagnant
behaviours" needed healing or
purging, but you are saying that the
healing process comes about through
the opposite house through interaction
with actual events, occurrences and
other persons that force one to
become aware of the "newness" of the
opposite house and its issues, which
then lead to expressing this opposite
house or polarity in a completely new
way. And this process then brings
about evolution?
That IS the process of evolution, in
action!
The ""old stagnant
behaviours" DO need healing or

purging. It is through developing the
Pluto polarity point that the healing or
purging occurs. And, as I added this
additional piece, that occurs through
developing the North Node, and the
North Node's ruler by house and sign.
That is HOW the Soul learns, and
about evolution?
That IS the process of evolution, in
action!
The ""old stagnant
behaviours" DO need healing or

purging. It is through developing the
Pluto polarity point that the healing or
purging occurs. And, as I added this
additional piece, that occurs through
developing the North Node, and the
North Node's ruler by house and sign.
That is HOW the Soul learns, and
learns to heal, and learns the
necessity of what needs to be purged,
which lead to the evolution.
Quote
The whole issue of POLARITY is
interesting, because that naturally
correlates to the Libran archetype.
So, no matter what house Pluto or
Scorpio are in, there is a requirement
to "embrace" the polarity, in other
words, to create a relationship to that
which is opposite, the "other," other
people, other aspects of oneself that
seem to be hidden, but that need
development.
That is true for every planet, not just
Pluto. If you go through Pluto Vol 2
chapters on Mars and Venus you read
descriptions of what its like for Mars/
Venus in a house to activate their
polarity house. Its not limited to just
Mars and Venus. You can look at it as
the opposite house in some ways is in
the shadow, the other side of self, the
side not yet consciously
acknowledged. Remember that the
principle of what causes us to feel
secure is WHAT WE KNOW. That
which is 180 degrees away from what
we know, from what causes us to feel
secure, feels like the most insecure
unsafe place we can possibly go. At
first it feels completely foreign.
Later, as the person starts accepting
and getting familiar with the "other
side", they can grow to really like
what previously felt frightening. You
have to get used to it, gradually.
Then you start to see it is the mirror
side of who you have always been,
that has been denied, disowned,
repressed for a long time. Yet its
always been there.
Quote
How can one co-operate with Pluto?
What does it mean? Could you
please clarify or confirm the different
responses to evolution, such as:
-- embracing the polarity point
-- working through the karma
-- responding more readily to the
prompts (higher evo. states)
-- cataclysmic events that speed the
process
So, working on the polarity point "in
our heads" could reflect patriarchal
How can one co-operate with Pluto?

What does it mean? Could you
please clarify or confirm the different
responses to evolution, such as:
-- embracing the polarity point
-- working through the karma
-- responding more readily to the
prompts (higher evo. states)
-- cataclysmic events that speed the
process
So, working on the polarity point "in
our heads" could reflect patriarchal
bias or rationalizations that cause
avoidance by not "feeling" what is
happening. It has been said that the
Scorpio archetype is able to "feel"
intensely, and that we need the water
element (Cancer-Scorpio-Pisces) for
evolution to take place.
Well, stated without any judgment,
some of the way you are wording this
reflects, to me, too mental an
orientation. These are not things one
really has to think a lot about.
The
gist of it is that when we are not

resisting the flow of life, evolution
simply happens, in and of itself, since
it is the whole point of life.
People are already doing the best they
know how to do, in terms of
cooperating with evolutionary
intentions.
The cataclysmic events
that occur in a life are not forced on

us from outside - they are chosen by
the Soul, in some cases to blow the
top off the blocked off dam. Those
who are destined to grow (and having
a desire nature that is deeply tuned to
WANTING to grow is a sign of destined
to grow, since everything that
happens is a manifest of a desire) are
going to get the experiences they
need TO grow - it simply happens.
No one is going to miss their life
purpose - by that I mean you don't
get just one notice in the mail and if
you miss it, sorry about that lost
incarnation. We receive message
after message after message. So if
one misses the first 23, they still keep
coming. The problem is, most people
ignore the first 23 and the next 16,
until finally that Soul that really wants
to grow creates a cataclysmic event
that is a lot harder to ignore or
rationalize away. Then of course the
first place most of us go is to feel like
a victim, that these things are being
done to me, and "what did I
do?" (feeling innocent).
How you grow is just stop resisting.
The biggest Scorpio issue I find is
that most of us have for all practical
purposes lost trust in LIFE ITSELF,
thus God/dess. We think we have to
struggle alone, that life is hard, that it
doesn't care that we are suffering,
first place most of us go is to feel like

a victim, that these things are being
done to me, and "what did I
do?" (feeling innocent).
How you grow is just stop resisting.
The biggest Scorpio issue I find is
that most of us have for all practical
purposes lost trust in LIFE ITSELF,
thus God/dess. We think we have to
struggle alone, that life is hard, that it
doesn't care that we are suffering,
that it keeps putting us through all
these things, etc etc.
I certainly lived that way. Until at
some point, looking back in hindsight,
I realized to my astonishment that all
the difficult things that had happened
had actually been for my benefit, all
along. That I had been asking life for
years and years to explain certain
things to me, to help me to
understand. The problem was, the
limitation was in ME - the answers had
always been there. But I was not in a
place where I could hear them. So life
had been trying to grant my request,
to answer my questions, all along.
But before I could hear the answers, I
needed to be somewhat rearranged,
to create the space in me where I
COULD hear the answers.
Now that rearranging process was
quite painful for a while, and I did not
understand that a) it was a process,
and b) why I needed to go through it,
and c) that indirectly I myself was the
person who had "ordered" it. Jeffrey
used to teach that in a Pluto transit
you could not, during the transit,
understand the Why of what was
going on. That understanding could
only come later. I found that to be
true. As I grasped more of "why" as
the years went by, and realized I
could now understand more of the
answers to my questions that I could
now see had always been there, my
trust in the Process of Evolution, a/k/a
Goddess, started to grow. I began to
see I had never truly been on my own
without assistance from Life,
regardless that it sometimes felt that
way.
I wrote this long description to explain
as answer to your question, how does
one cooperate with Pluto? You have
to come to see that "Pluto" is on your
side, that what it asks is for your own
good, is taking you to where you truly
and deeply (Pluto) want to go.
Coming to see this can not be done
through the intellect. You can
understand the principle, but then you
have to live it.
The analogy coming to mind is a
young mother-to-be reading books
one cooperate with Pluto? You have

to come to see that "Pluto" is on your
side, that what it asks is for your own
good, is taking you to where you truly
and deeply (Pluto) want to go.
Coming to see this can not be done
understand the principle, but then you
have to live it.
The analogy coming to mind is a
young mother-to-be reading books
about giving birth to a child. Any
woman who has given birth naturally
knows there is quite a difference
between reading about birth in a book
and actually giving birth. And they
also know there is no way to know
what giving birth is actually like until
you have actually given birth.
Quite similarly, at a certain point,
based on the strength of desire, a
person can find themselves pushed
into an experience or series of
experiences that fundamentally
change them. It will take time to
integrate those experiences. As they
do, they fundamentally change. And
then there are not as many questions
about how to cooperate with Pluto,
because one has learned from
experience 1) how to cooperate, and
2) the necessity of cooperating. As
they say, past a certain point,
resistance is futile.
You learn it through life lessons,
occasional hard knocks, until finally
the light starts coming on. That kicks
off a gradual deep shift in the
consciousness. After that shift, fears
of abandonment and betrayal by Life
itself lessen, and it comes to see that
continually being asked to step into an
ever new unknown is simply the
actual way that life works. That is the
reason and purpose for life. It's the
essence of evolution itself. From our
perspective, Evolution and God/dess
are one and the same. If you want to
move towards God/dess, you do it by
evolving. When we are resisting (for
too long a period, as opposed to
resting or inwardly integrating) we are
not moving towards God/dess, quite
the opposite. No matter what stories
we tell ourselves about what we are
doing. So those who want to move
towards God/dess learn it is through
letting go that we accomplish that.
The more that attitude is internalized
(and it happens all by itself when the
inner adjustments are being made)
the less the tendency to resist. When
we are not resisting, we are by
definition embracing the Pluto polarity
point and the intentions of the North
Node and its ruler. Because that is
where the Flow of Life naturally leads
when we are not trying to dam, stop,
towards God/dess learn it is through

letting go that we accomplish that.
The more that attitude is internalized
(and it happens all by itself when the
inner adjustments are being made)
the less the tendency to resist. When
we are not resisting, we are by
definition embracing the Pluto polarity
point and the intentions of the North
Node and its ruler. Because that is
where the Flow of Life naturally leads
when we are not trying to dam, stop,
control, or manipulate it. All we really
need to do is get out of the way and
let it take us where it intends for us to
go.
Quote
Would you or anyone care to comment
on the need for the "water" element
for evolution to take place?
When one is embracing life in the
ways I described above, they are
naturally embracing the water
element, because what I described
can only be embraced emotionally. It
can not ever be embraced mentally,
intellectually. Those are ideas,
thoughts, concepts. When they are
embraced emotionally those concepts
are beyond concept. They become
part of who I am. I become those
concepts in action. That is what
embracing the PPP, NN and ruler
means. You don't try to do it. You
dare to step into the unknown again
and again, and out of that it just
happens, over time.
Steve
Last Edit: Nov

06, 2010, 05:33
PM by Steve
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http://stevewolfson.com
blue
sky
Reply #46 on: Nov 06,
Gues
2010, 05:46 PM
t
Steve, I have a question about
the following statement which is
excerpted from your post
immediately above:
"When we are resisting (for too
long a period, as opposed to
resting or inwardly integrating)
we are not moving towards
God/dess, quite the opposite.
No matter what stories we tell
ourselves about what we are
doing. So those who want to
move towards God/dess learn it
is through letting go that we
accomplish that."
How do you distinguish between
resisting/resting/inwardly
integrating?

accomplish that."
integrating?
Thanks for that great post and
any answer you can provide.
Logged
Lind
Most
2010, 07:18 PM
Activ
e
Steve,
Mem
ber
Post
s:
931
Thank you so much for your

comprehensive answers.
Steve's quote: The Soul is,
directly or indirectly, aware of
the polarity point, since the
Soul picked the Pluto location in
the first place.
Yes, of course, thank you for
this reminder!
Steve's quote: The principle
of polarity point applies to all
planets, not just to Pluto. That
is how evolution unfolds - its
part of Natural Law, how things
were created by Creator.
It was great reading that the
principle of polarity is part of
Natural Law.
Steve, during the time of the
patriarchy (which I choose to
feel/believe is now over) was it
possible that the process of
evolution itself was distorted by
humankind in some way? That
the Collective Souls lost faith in
life and in their Creator, and
therefore in the principles or
truths of life that are called
Natural Laws. If such a
distortion coinciding with the
beginning of the patriarchy did
take place, would we get
understanding by looking at the
Nodes of Saturn? What do you
think? (Perhaps this question
should be directed to the
Planetary Nodes thread.)
During the times when the
matriarchy was well
established, I imagine that
humans co-operated much

matriarchy was well
more readily with evolution,
that it was experienced as a
natural occurrence given them
by the Creator, and that they
offered less resistance.
Steve's quote: Later, as the
person starts accepting and
getting familiar with the "other
side", they can grow to really
like what previously felt
frightening. You have to get
used to it, gradually. Then you
start to see it is the mirror side
of who you have always been,
that has been denied,
disowned, repressed for a long
time. Yet its always been there.
And on some level within us, we
learn to cooperate because we
know it is for our higher good.
It completely ceases to be
frightening - in fact, it could be
seen/felt as quite an adventure!
Steve's quote: No one is
going to miss their life purpose
- by that I mean you don't get
just one notice in the mail and if
you miss it, sorry about that
lost incarnation.
I have already had (deeply
felt and understood why) many
evolutionary experiences, but
feel the need to be able to put
those experiences "into words"
to pass on the information for
the benefit of others.
Steve's quote: Jeffrey used to
teach that in a Pluto transit you
could not, during the transit,
understand the Why of what
was going on. That
understanding could only come
later.
So, if we, as astrologers,
explain "why" to those who
seek us out, do you think this
means they are taking a shortcut, or would this information
really benefit them? I truly
think this information is of
benefit to others.
Steve's quote: You have to
come to see that "Pluto" is on
later.
benefit to others.
Steve's quote: You have to
come to see that "Pluto" is on
your side, that what it asks is
for your own good, is taking you
to where you truly and deeply
(Pluto) want to go. Coming to
see this can not be done
understand the principle, but
then you have to live it.
I also think it's important for
those we are helping to
understand the principle - but
then, of course, they also need
to understand they have to live
it for evolution to take true
effect.
Steve's quote: The analogy
coming to mind is a young
mother-to-be reading books
about giving birth to a child.
This is a great analogy Steve.
Steve's quote: And then there
are not as many questions
about how to cooperate with
Pluto, because one has learned
from experience 1) how to
cooperate, and 2) the necessity
of cooperating. As they say,
past a certain point, resistance
is futile.
The basis of my questions has
been how to help those who
come to me/us for readings.
Steve's quote: From our
perspective, Evolution and God/
dess are one and the same. If
you want to move towards God/
dess, you do it by evolving.
Once again, I have experienced
everything you've said, but my
main concern was how to pass
on this information to others.
(Do you think perhaps it may
be a good idea that we start a
new topic in the future: "How
to assist clients" because I'm
sure everyone has their own
approach, which would be great
to share here.)
Steve's quote:
When they
are embraced emotionally those

concepts are beyond concept.
on this information to others.

(Do you think perhaps it may
be a good idea that we start a
new topic in the future: "How
to assist clients" because I'm
sure everyone has their own
approach, which would be great
to share here.)
Steve's quote:
When they
are embraced emotionally those

concepts are beyond concept.
They become part of who I am.
And I would add that it would

be helpful if the astrologer was
an empath with the ability to
have compassion towards other
beings.
So we educate ourselves as to
the infinite combinations of
karmic signatures, so as to be
able to help others. We draw
on our own experiences, even
though most of these signatures
have not been our personal
ones.
Last Edit:
Nov 06, 2010,
09:11 PM by
Linda
Logged
Stev
Admi
2010, 12:14 AM
n
Most Hi Bluesky
Activ
e
Quote from: bluesky on Nov
Mem 06, 2010, 05:46 PM

ber
Steve, I have a question about

the following statement which is
excerpted from your post
Post
immediately above:
s:
566
"When we are resisting (for too

long a period, as opposed to
resting or inwardly integrating)
accomplish that."
integrating?

accomplish that."
integrating?
You are welcome.
I would say you just know. The
point is, when someone reaches
the point where they are
actively seeking to deal with the
things I wrote about, they have
reached the point where they
are tired of playing games and
faking it, and are ready to stop
creating their own b.s.
It is interesting- if one is a big
Leo type, much of their b.s. is
going to be about too much
ego. While if one is a major
Virgo type, their b.s. is going to
be the compulsive need to put
self down, never give self
credit, never see any value in
what they do. From the outside
that looks like so much
humility. THAT IS NOT humility!
Past a point, putting one's self
down too much is avoidance, is
just as much b.s. as being on a
big ego trip. Although in some
ways socially more acceptable that is the con the self is
playing with too much putting
self down - you get away with
never really having to try, there
is always a reasonable sounding
explanation for staying the
same.
When the person reaches the
point where they are sick of
that m.o. within self, then they
start to change. I sometimes
say, when the pain of staying
the same becomes stronger
than the fear of changing, then
the changes start. When one
gets to that point they start to
trust themselves, start to get
real with self. Then you just
know when your need for rest is
legitimate, when the physical
and emotional apparatus just
can not take any more on in the
present moment. That is a
legitimate space for timeout,
rest. The person also knows,
by the way it feels inside, when
its time to get moving again. In
remaining at rest when I know
its time to move on, rest is now
resistance.
real with self. Then you just

know when your need for rest is
legitimate, when the physical
and emotional apparatus just
can not take any more on in the
present moment. That is a
legitimate space for timeout,
rest. The person also knows,
by the way it feels inside, when
its time to get moving again. In
remaining at rest when I know
its time to move on, rest is now
resistance.
Similarly for integration. It
takes time to EMOTIONALLY
integrate new information, new
stimulus. At times that may
require downtime. If its a
Saturn or Cap or 10th house
transit, we call it reflection, for
example. There are legitimate
periods for integration, down
time, within natural law. When
we are in an integrating period,
that is not resistance. If I
overstay and hang out in
integration space when I feel
inside it is time to move on,
that is resistance. You just
know. When you learn to trust
what you are feeling, you just
know.
That is why the Virgo
thing has to be dealt with, so

one stops feeling guilty every
time they are taking a
legitimate break for rest or
integration. But then, you can't
use that as an excuse or
justification either. You either
feel it is there and right in that
moment, or you don't. If you
are resting and the inner feeling
is to keep moving, that may
well be resistance.
Steve
Logged
Stev
Admi
2010, 01:02 AM
n
Most Hi Linda
Activ
e
Quote from: Linda on Nov
Mem 06, 2010, 07:18 PM

ber
Steve, during the time of the

Post
s:
566


Post
s:
566

You can choose to feel and
believe the time of patriarchy is
over, but billions of people are
affected, today, by the
patriarchal conditions that exist
all over this planet, in every
single country. If you mean
that the time of patriarchy is
winding down, in terms of
hundreds of years, well perhaps
there is something to that. But
that reality, that patriarchy is
over, is being experienced by
very few people of the 7 billion
now on this planet.
A natural process is beyond the
ability of humankind to distort.
What is natural is natural. It
was created by Creator as it is.
Humans can create beliefs that
cause billions of humans to act
in ways that are NOT aligned
with Natural Law - that we call
human distortion of natural
law. It does not mean the
natural law itself has become
distorted. It means humans
have forgotten what the natural
law is and have adopted
thoroughly artificial humancreated realities, coming to
believe they are normal/
natural. That does not make
them natural/normal. Even if
100% of humans act that way,
it does not change the natural
principle. That is why we call it
a Natural Law - it is the way
things actually are, regardless
of any human's beliefs or
actions.
Quote
matriarchy was well
of any human's beliefs or

actions.
Quote
matriarchy was well
offered less resistance.
That is about the definition of
matriarchal times. It doesn't
mean they were perfect - a wild
animal might eat one of the
village's children. Lightning
might burn down your hut. It
means such experiences were
received from a completely
different perspective than they
are typically received now.
Quote
Steve's quote: Jeffrey used to
teach that in a Pluto transit you
could not, during the transit,
understand the Why of what
was going on. That
understanding could only come
later.
benefit to others.
To me it means what I already
said - if you explain it to them,
they might be able to grasp
what you are saying on the
mental plane, in the brain,
intellectually. But they are not
going to be able to TRULY
understand what it means in a
useful way until they have gone
through the necessary changes
and then EMOTIONALLY
integrated them. My example
is, you are not going to find
many third graders who can
learn trigonometry. By the time
they are in high school this
becomes more possible.
Personally I don't feel that
conveying information that can
only be comprehended on the
mental level is really of a lot of
value to a client. All of us
already know far too many facts
and theories on how we should
be that is not where we are.
What value does adding to that
pile of unused information really
add? On the other hand, I do
becomes more possible.

Personally I don't feel that
conveying information that can
only be comprehended on the
mental level is really of a lot of
value to a client. All of us
already know far too many facts
and theories on how we should
be that is not where we are.
What value does adding to that
pile of unused information really
add? On the other hand, I do
acknowledge that ingested
information can at some point
integrate into emotional
knowledge/reality. As long as
you and the client are clear that
all they are grasping is
intellectual information (at that
point) and they do not feel that
because they grasp it mentally
this means they have now
mastered the principle, then no
harm is done. Personally I have
no hard and fast rules with
clients. What is quite
appropriate to say to one client
may be very inappropriate to
say to another. I have just
learned/continue learning to
know from within whom to say
what to.
Steve
Logged
Lind
Most
2010, 01:20 AM
Activ
e
Steve,
Mem
ber
Post
s:
931
Thank you for clarifying so

much for me today gained
through your wisdom and
personal experiences.
Logged
mou
ntai
nhe
2010, 04:49 PM
athe
r
Can we discuss the realm of
Activ feelings versus emotions as i

e
relates to Scorpio. In Patricia
Mem Walsh's book she discusses

ber
Post
s:
192
Taurus as being more the

archetype that contains
feelings, and Cancer as the
emotions, and yet I am getting
that Scorpio is deep emotion as
well, or maybe perhaps the
reaction to the emotion. I
haven't quite found my way
Activ feelings versus emotions as i

e
Mem Walsh's book she discusses

ber
Post
s:
192

through this one. The terms
feeling is indeed a vague term
as is emotion and perhaps there
is no definitive answer.
Also in response to Linda:
Quote
Would you or anyone care to
comment on the need for the
"water" element for evolution to
take place?
The node thread really brought
to light the sensation of
consciousness being on
continuum, like a river or
stream, and evolution is the
travelling in and on this stream
just like floating down a river on
you back, or fighting against
the current...the past is
upstream, and the future is
downstream, all water and all
connected ultimately back to
the ocean...
Heather
Logged
Stev
Admi
2010, 07:11 PM
n
Most Hi Heather
Activ
e
Quote from:
Mem mountainheather on Nov 09,

ber
2010, 04:49 PM
feelings versus emotions as i
Post
s:
Walsh's book she discusses
566

The EA perspective is that
feelings is Libra and emotion is
Cancer and the other water
signs. Cancer is the ego/

The EA perspective is that
feelings is Libra and emotion is
Cancer and the other water
signs. Cancer is the ego/
personality, Scorpio is the Soul,
and Pisces is Source. They are
the water signs, and the
pathway back to divinity is
through the emotions.
The difference between feelings
and emotion is feelings are
more on the surface, the instant
reaction. Emotion is the
reaction to the reaction, often
coming later. Jeffrey used to
give the example of a person
comes home and tells their
partner they are attracted to
someone else. The Libra part of
the partner might respond with
"oh, ok, I'm happy for you".
But the partner has a Scorpio
moon, and when the reality of
what was said sinks into the
Scorpio moon, that is not going
to be their reaction. The Libra
part is the feelings, the Scorpio
part the emotions.
Steve
Logged
ari
mos
he
2010, 01:20 PM
Most
Activ Hi Heather, I just wanted to
e
expand upon what steve wrote.
Mem
ber
Post
s:
1231
I think I understand where this

can be confusing.
The moon corresponds to the
emotional body itself. It is our
emotions that indicate to us
who we think we are. The
emotional responses that arise,
moment to moment, are the
indications of a soul's self
identity, the ego. This is a very
conscious and tangible
experience. JWG describes the
Moon/nodes as a movie lens
projector that allows the soul,
which is timeless and formless,
to inhabit a particular form.
Without the movie film
projector the film would just be
diffuse light. It's a unique ego
that the soul creates as the
vehicle for it's evolutionary
identity, the ego. This is a very

conscious and tangible
experience. JWG describes the
Moon/nodes as a movie lens
projector that allows the soul,
which is timeless and formless,
to inhabit a particular form.
Without the movie film
projector the film would just be
diffuse light. It's a unique ego
that the soul creates as the
vehicle for it's evolutionary
journey here on earth.
To demonstrate this, simply
reflect on the nature of your
own Moon placement. This is a
very conscious experience.
Now Pluto, IS an emotional
experience! However it does not
correlate to the emotional body
itself. How does a soul
consciously integrate the
unconscious impulses
emanating from Pluto, the soul?
The answer is through the Moon
(and its nodes).
Looking at the water triad,
there is a naturally emotional
nature to all 3 water
archetypes, yet the only one
that corresponds to the
emotional body itself, ie the
ego, is the Moon.
As I undestand, in ea feelings
are both taurus and libra as
conected through Venus. In the
example JWG gave that Steve
mentioned, he was referring to
a soul who has Venus in Libra
and Moon in scorpio.
am
Logged
Lind
Most
2010, 02:04 PM
Activ
e
Mem Quote from:
ber
Post
s:
931
mountainheather on Nov 09,

2010, 04:49 PM
The node thread really brought
to light the sensation of
consciousness being on
the ocean...
Heather,

the ocean...
Heather,
That was a great analogy.
Thanks.
Ari,
Your added explanation really
helps me understand all 3
Water signs. Thanks.
Logged
ari
mos
he
2010, 05:11 PM
Most
Activ Oh and I wanted to mention, as
e
a soul with a Scorpio moon and
Mem Venus in Libra- I can really

ber
Post
s:
1231
relate to that particular

example!
Venus, as our feeling nature,
can literally be related to the
realm of inner and outer
senses. It's what we pick up,
what we connect with. The
moon, as our emotional body
literally tells us who we create
ourselves to be as a response to
the stimuli of our life.
Last Edit:
Nov 10, 2010,
06:19 PM by
ari moshe
Logged
Lind
Most
2010, 08:16 PM
Activ
e
Hi everyone,
Mem
ber
Post
s:
931
Laura Nalbandian on Guiding

Stars Radio recently spoke
about the function of Venus and
how important it was to be
authentic in relationships by
finding ones that could meet
"essential needs." Paraphrased
from that interview:
"Venus in Scorpio has an
essential need for control or
has an essential need for
transformation and
intensity. If those needs for
intensity can't be met in a
s:
931
how important it was to be

authentic in relationships by
finding ones that could meet
"essential needs." Paraphrased
from that interview:
"Venus in Scorpio has an
essential need for control or
has an essential need for
transformation and
intensity. If those needs for
intensity can't be met in a
constructive manner, then they
will be met in a destructive
way. Those needs will attract
relationships that will stimulate
the destructive elements, if they
cannot be expressed in a
healthy way."
"Essential needs are defined by
the fact that we feel we aren't
going to survive, or that life
doesn't hold as much value or
purpose if those essential needs
are not met. They seem to be
encoded into a survival
mechanism (Taurus)."
Scorpio is such a passionate
sign. To merge with "powerful"
symbols will provide the
intensity and transformation it
seeks, and allow it to express
its own depths. Scorpionic
sexuality is all-consuming and
very intense...and probably one
of the essential needs for this
sign.
Logged
Wen
dy
Very
2010, 09:16 PM
Activ
e
Quote from: ari moshe on
Mem Nov 10, 2010, 01:20 PM

ber
Post
s:
452
Now Pluto, IS an emotional

experience! However it does not
correlate to the emotional body
itself. How does a soul
consciously integrate the
unconscious impulses
emanating from Pluto, the soul?
The answer is through the Moon
(and its nodes).
Looking at the water triad,
ego, is the Moon.
Wow this is great! Thanks for
asking the question Heather
and thanks for your response
Ari. From my own perspective
this is so confusing, because I

ego, is the Moon.
Wow this is great! Thanks for
asking the question Heather
and thanks for your response
Ari. From my own perspective
this is so confusing, because I
have the Moon in the 8th and
Pluto in the 4th conjunct
Venus. So they all feel the
same to me. If I consider my
Moon as having the emotional
body, my 4th house says, "oh
yeah, I don't think so!"
I appreciate the clarification and
break down. I asked a similar
question earlier in the thread,
and now I have even more
understanding. Thanks again
Ari.
God Bless Everyone
Logged
ari
mos
he
2010, 12:32 PM
Most
Activ Hi all,
e
I have a question about
Mem Scorpio, specifically as it relates

ber
Post
s:
1231
to the idea of sacred sexuality.

I just counseled a soul who has
Venus in Scorpio conj the sn in
the 12th house. She lived the
first part of her life engaging in
irresponsible sexual connections
with other souls, always seeking
to merge with another on the
basis of feeling a deep
emotional lack within herself,
and created very intense power
dynamics as a result of thatalso deaths of lovers/close
friends. All what you'd expect
from such a signature.
She's had sex with her fiance
and used a IUD. However, she
got pregnant. She surrendered
to that and decided to give birth
to the baby. And yet the baby
miscarried.
I'm not seeking to use her chart
as an example, I just wanted to
use this as a starting point for
understanding what sexuality
really is. I feel in current
society, west in particular, it's
believed that two people can
have sex and "beat" the biology
of it. This is possible, most of
the time, with all the various
to the baby. And yet the baby

miscarried.
I'm not seeking to use her chart
as an example, I just wanted to
use this as a starting point for
understanding what sexuality
really is. I feel in current
society, west in particular, it's
believed that two people can
have sex and "beat" the biology
of it. This is possible, most of
the time, with all the various
contraceptives. However,
intuitively to me, it feels like an
abuse of something sacred;
something that is, by its nature,
more than just a physical
experience.
Scorpio points to sexuality as an
entirely emotional experience,
one that taps into the very
nature of desire. Desire, as an
impulse that is predominately
unconscious, will manifest as a
force that is greater than one's
local awareness. The urge for
sexual union to me seems like
one such manifestation of thisfor most souls at least.
What is true sacred sexuality
from the Scorpio point of view?
Here's an excerpt from a little book I

am working on:
"This impulse to evolve is entirely
unconscious. The soul is not aware of
itself in this way...
At a certain point the emotional
information that a soul experiences
leads to a new conscious awareness of
its own dynamics. This awareness
having previously been primarily
unconscious.
The emotions give us all the pertinent
information we can ever know about
ourselves in any moment.
A soul has to become consciously
aware of itself in such a way that it can
evolve beyond its addictions,
resistance, obsessions etc. This is what
happens through the north node of the
Moon. If a soul is only aware of itself
through the filter of the south node of
the Moon, then there is no self
awareness that can possible include
any information that would enable
change from within (Pluto via its
polarity point)."
You can think of the soul's desire an
impulse that is literally
UNTRANSLATABLE to the human
experience. It's very intangible. If a
soul is obsessed with making more
money, to the point that in a
Scorpionic way, it will do anything
awareness that can possible include

any information that would enable
change from within (Pluto via its
polarity point)."
You can think of the soul's desire an
impulse that is literally
UNTRANSLATABLE to the human
experience. It's very intangible. If a
soul is obsessed with making more
money, to the point that in a
Scorpionic way, it will do anything
necessary to achieve the wealth it
thinks it needs, that obsession is really
just pointing the way to a deeper
desire. We can ask "why" that
obsession? And we can keep on asking
why until we get to "why separation
from God in the first place"?
In other words the soul may desire
something, however that desire is just
the result of an even deeper
psychology, and that is just the result
of an even deeper psychology. The
desires of the soul are made conscious
through the nodes and the Moon,
however, as is the nature of desire,
once one layer is worked through,
there is always a deeper layer.
Quote
Since the Scorpio archetype is perhaps
the deepest most penetrating sign, it
asks the "why" of anything and will
naturally probe into its own
psychology. The intensity, passion and
obsession could be the way this sign
needs to operate - it has a Mars feel to
it, like "pushing forward." Mars is
necessary to actualize the deepest Soul
desires. That is why Mars is
considered to be the little brother of
Pluto: they really do work together.
Not sure about the Moon, but the
Nodes operate consciously.
The Moon too. The Moon is actually
what enables a soul to emotionally
integrate the known identity with the
unknown, moment to moment. Pluto
via the nodes, and the nodal rulers are
are all processed through the Moon on
a moment to moment basis. And thus
the polarity point to the Moon is a
valuable point to consider as well.
Ari Moshe
rst we have to remember that the
symbol of Scorpio is the Soul itself.
That underlies everything. Then we can
look at the next sign, Sag, representing
the Soul's attempts to understand the
relationship between itself and the
cosmos. (houses 7 - 8 - 9 are
relationship houses).
Scorpio, naturally square to Leo, is
where the personality comes face to face
with its own limitations. Unlike Leo,
which can feel invincible, by Scorpio we
have experienced that there are
That underlies everything. Then we can

look at the next sign, Sag, representing
the Soul's attempts to understand the
relationship between itself and the
cosmos. (houses 7 - 8 - 9 are
relationship houses).
Scorpio, naturally square to Leo, is
where the personality comes face to face
with its own limitations. Unlike Leo,
which can feel invincible, by Scorpio we
have experienced that there are
NATURAL limits in life that we can not,
by force of personality will or Soul,
transcend. They are limits by design,
built into the archetypes of being a
human being. A silly example that just
came to mind - when you buy a cordless
phone that can have up to 3 separate
handsets attached to it, no matter what
you do or how much you try, you are
not going to get a 4th handset to work
with that phone.
It is very much like that. Except when
we were born there was no carton that
came with the birth that clearly stated
this model can only have 3 extensions,
all attempts to add a 4th or 5th will end
in failure.
We don't KNOW what the limits are. We
become aware that there are forces in
Life that are bigger than I am, that I
have no control over. A major one is
death. From the perspective of the
personality, death is bitter and the end.
Thus a Scorpio tendency to have an
obsessive attraction-repulsion
fascination with death. In other words,
anything that appears to be a limitation,
Scorpio will endlessly test and push,
trying to transcend or break through.
Through this process we become aware,
slowly, of what the limits are. That is
the first step. Few of us LIKE having
limits. We may become aware of them
but we keep trying to break through
them. It comes down to gradually
learning that the best approach is
learning to creatively cooperate with
those limits, as opposed to being in
denial or anger or resistance that any
exist in the first place.
On the deepest levels everything a
Scorpio type does is an attempt to
expand those limits. Sex, in its purest
form, is a way to come as close to
temporarily merging two Souls as most
of us are ever going to experience. That
experience pushes the boundaries of our
limits - biology aside, that is a big part
of the appeal the sexual experience has
to humans.
The REASONS why Scorpio wants to
osmose things deeply within it is, again,
to try to break through those perceived
limits. When it sees something - a
person, a philosophy, a business - that
appears to know something it doesn't
temporarily merging two Souls as most

of us are ever going to experience. That
experience pushes the boundaries of our
limits - biology aside, that is a big part
of the appeal the sexual experience has
to humans.
The REASONS why Scorpio wants to
osmose things deeply within it is, again,
to try to break through those perceived
limits. When it sees something - a
person, a philosophy, a business - that
appears to know something it doesn't
know that it perceives as "if I knew that
I would have fewer limits on me", it
compulsively feels the urge to draw
close to that source, to draw into itself in
the fastest and deepest ways possible,
the essence of what it sees as that
source, trying to get beyond its inherent
limitations.
(I started writing this yesterday in a
moment of inspiration. I didn't finish it
before I got pulled onto something else.
Today the moment of inspiration has
passed. I am posting what I wrote
Last Edit: Oct 21, 2010, 08:13 PM by
yesterday although it is not complete)
Wendy
Steve

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archetype. I thought we would start by understanding the archetype in its natural

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #1 on: Oct 18, 2010, 02:17 AM

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #2 on: Oct 19, 2010, 06:08 AM

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #2 on: Oct 19, 2010, 06:08 AM

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #3 on: Oct 19, 2010, 07:36 AM

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #4 on: Oct 19, 2010, 12:17 PM

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #4 on: Oct 19, 2010, 12:17 PM

Last Edit: Oct 21, 2010, 01:29 AM by

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #5 on: Oct 20, 2010, 01:32 AM

Skywalker and Dhyana,

Last Edit: Oct 21, 2010, 01:29 AM by

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #5 on: Oct 20, 2010, 01:32 AM

Skywalker and Dhyana,

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #6 on: Oct 20, 2010, 09:47 AM

devotion of the Scorpio archetype within the Spiritual evolutionary condition: it

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #6 on: Oct 20, 2010, 09:47 AM

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #7 on: Oct 20, 2010, 01:40 PM

Hi, thank you for the opportunity to look at thses archetypes.

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #7 on: Oct 20, 2010, 01:40 PM

Hi, thank you for the opportunity to look at thses archetypes.

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #8 on: Oct 20, 2010, 02:49 PM

Thanks for this articulation mountainheather,it really resonates:

Last Edit: Oct 20, 2010, 09:22 PM by

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #9 on: Oct 20, 2010, 03:04 PM

Hi All and thanks Deva for moderating,

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #10 on: Oct 20, 2010, 05:15 PM

Deva, thank you for your further elucidation.

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #11 on: Oct 21, 2010, 01:11 AM

Oh... Happy Halloween

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #10 on: Oct 20, 2010, 05:15 PM

Deva, thank you for your further elucidation.

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #11 on: Oct 21, 2010, 01:11 AM

Last Edit: Oct 21, 2010, 01:26 AM by

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #12 on: Oct 21, 2010, 01:59 AM

Last Edit: Oct 21, 2010, 02:18 AM by

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #13 on: Oct 21, 2010, 04:02 AM

Last Edit: Oct 21, 2010, 01:26 AM by

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #12 on: Oct 21, 2010, 01:59 AM

Last Edit: Oct 21, 2010, 02:18 AM by

Re: Scorpio archetype

Reply #13 on: Oct 21, 2010, 04:02 AM