MOVING AROUND IN CIRCLES

this is a letter from south america, written by vanesa...

who discovered whosoever just a few weeks ago and wrote to him
to clarify her doubts about the spiritual path and the awakened state.

satnm dear gurudev !

thanks to manish, i am contacting you a second time.
the first time i wrote two lines and now two pages.
i thank him for suggesting to contact you
...and you, for reading these lines.
i have a very big desire to be able to soon visit and spend some days
in the osho mystery school, to which i came across.
thanks to having gone to a concert, where manish was playing on the
day of my birthday... two years ago... which was like a birthday present !
i would be thankful if you could help me clarify some questions
going around my head, for a while that in a way also relates to
the purpose of visiting the mystery school and meeting with a teacher.
in order to explain myself, i will start by referring to u.g. krishnamurti,
whose message or no-message, always reached me deep because of
his simplicity, honesty and humility... because he really never intended
to give any message, nor have followers.
since i didnt meet him alive, i even went to saanen
and stayed there for a few days next to the house,
where he used to live and where he became enlightened.
unfortunately the bench was gone . ( for nothing, but i liked
to do it... to feel somehow connected, seeing what he saw with his eyes. )
he wouldnt be happy to know somebody is tracing something of him,
but it was a beautiful place to enjoy as well.
besides not believing in spiritual growth techniques, nor in meditation,
his message was basically around some of the following sayings of his
i have no particular message for mankind... except to say that all holy
systems for obtaining enlightenment are nonsense... and that all talk
of arriving at a psychological mutation through awareness is rubbish.
the natural state can happen only through biological mutation.
whatever has happened to me has happened despite everything i did.
whatever i did or did not do and whatever events people believed,
led me into this are totally irrelevant.
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it is something like to use my favorite phrase lightning hitting you.

i have actually and factually nothing to communicate,
because there is no communication possible at any level.
the only instrument we have is the intellect, we know.
in a way, that this instrument has not helped us to understand anything.
during the 40 years UG lived in an awakened state.
he just insisted again and again that theres nothing one can do
to jump to a more elevated state...
that awareness cannot be achieved by practice...
and to seek nothing from him.
i always wondered and searched, but never found anybody asking UG,
how does he know what happened to him
was despite his strong spiritual formation, meditation,
yoga mastering, himalaya retreats, meeting with different masters,
living like a homeless, losing everything... etc.
...or could it be attributed to the fact that in his previous life,
he was said to be so close to enlightenment
that it was meant to happen, despite of anything ?
i have also observed these notions in your replies to the letters
that manish has been sending lately theres nothing you can do
just let it happen and see there is nothing to understand
remain passive wait always keep in mind that you dont understand.
theres no doubt that meditation has great benefits,
but does it help in the path of a seeker ?
do we advance towards enlightenment ? or do we go around in circles?
so in which way can the 10, 20, 40 days of the meditation intensive help?
is the main purpose of the retreat to feel more connected with
ourselves control our mind, let go of fears, patterns, worries,
cleaning the subconscious and come back in a peaceful, meditative,
more spiritual, relaxed state... or is it an actual path to awakening ?
is there a way to self-realization through techniques
like the ones described in the book of secrets ?
or one just has to basically get lucky like UG says :
like a lightning hitting you ?
if, like UG insists there is no way out, do we go to a master
to keep alive the hope that what we do in his guidance,
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and being around him might help?

also... since the master doesnt have a way to communicate
his experience... or his state because our intellect doesnt
understand is the master just compassionate enough to let us
at least be around him to see if his presence can communicate...
what words cannot... or, can he guide us to the technique
that can better fit each ones path?
and finally since enlightened ones or masters
should be all equally vibrating at the same elevated level,
shouldnt their message be similar to us?
shouldnt they all say theres nothing we can do like UG,
or meditation is the way like osho ?
in other words : how can a close disciple of UG like mahesh,
be so identified and close to UG have such bad feelings for osho
since the truth is only one... isnt that contradictory ?
well, like i told manish, i am stuck like a donkey.
i don't want to compromise my time any more with responsibilities
and activities that dont contribute to my inner growth,
because i feel at this age, i am starting to lose track of being able
to be the master of my mind and not mind of me find my real self,
develop my spirituality and arrive to death understanding something.
but im happy to glimpse a tiny light on the horizon.
thanks a lot... vanesa.

whosoever's response
dear vanesa,
here is your letter... with whosoevers response.
your two page letter carrying so many questions requires
300 to 400 pages of response which will be equal to a big book.
anyway, it does not matter; let us see how it goes.
you write : satnm dear gurudev !
thanks to manish, i am contacting you a second time.
the first time i wrote two lines and now two pages.
i thank him for suggesting to contact you
...and you, for reading these lines.
oh god ! please save me!
i have a very big desire to be able to soon visit and spend some days
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in the osho mystery school, to which i came across.

thanks to having gone to a concert, where manish was playing on the
day of my birthday... two years ago... which was like a birthday present !
wow ! so here is in advance your birthday present.
by the way... do you really know, if you were born or, is it just a belief ?
soon we will explore... what it means to believe, or disbelieve.
was it a conscious decision of vanesa to be born from a chosen parents?
were you a witness, while you were being born?
is it not true that this good or bad news was given to you
by your parents that you were born on such and such date
and you accepted it and started believing ?
so one should search from the very point where it all started.
if you were really born, it means you existed before isnt it?
before you were born, how did you look like? ...meditate on this.
i would be thankful if you could help me clarify some questions
going around my head...
dear vanesa!
the first thing to keep in remembrance is : your head is not you
what is going around your head is not you.
though your head is not you,
but it is filled with heavy dust and smoke of knowledge...
accumulated over the years, which makes no sense.
and as a result, has created all the confusion and disturbance in the head.
your head is filled up to the very brim; i see no space to pour myself in it.
whatever i will be pouring, i fear, may create more confusion.
it seems you need a shock therapy.
are you ready to be shocked and shattered?
by asking so many questions of all sorts,
you have already allowed me to empty your head first.
so here we go.
for a while that in a way also relates to
the purpose of visiting the mystery school and meeting with a teacher.
you are welcome to visit the mystery school anytime,
but you will not be able to locate the teacher anywhere.
because the one you will be meeting, is a funny fellow...
known as whosoever and sometimes also called
as gurudev by old friends... because of their old conditioning.
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in order to explain myself,

what do you mean when you say myself ?
for whatsoever is mine, cannot be me.
i will start by referring to u.g. krishnamurti,
vanesa, have you ever given a thought what is this thing called i ?
where it abides? ...where it can be located? ...does it really exist?
or, is it just a functional phenomenon... a functional entity
having no existence of its own ?
whose message or no-message, always reached me deep because of
his simplicity, honesty and humility... because he really never intended
to give any message, nor have followers.
UG used to say: i have no message to give to the humanity.
but... dont you think even this is a message?
it seems, you are more capable of knowing the intentions of a mystic,
of an awakened one... or a realized being like UG !
and how do you know that he had no followers?
he was moving around the globe and people always
surrounded him day and night what were they?
he may call them friends but what difference does it make?
is it not just to please ones own thought, idea, concept... or whatsoever?
the mind of the man has immense capacity,
immense power to fool oneself wisely.
since i didnt meet him alive, i even went to saanen
and stayed there for a few days next to the house,
where he used to live and where he became enlightened.
unfortunately the bench was gone . ( for nothing, but i liked
to do it... to feel somehow connected, seeing what he saw with his eyes. )
god bless you!
whatever one does... or does not do... in his entire life
is to satisfy oneself only it is to please ones own idea,
ones own desire, ones own thought isnt it ?
and nothing is wrong, whether one chooses to become a mother
teresa, or a terrorist like laden, or to be a multi-millionaire...
or become the one, who renounces all it is all to please oneself.
he wouldnt be happy to know somebody is tracing something of him,
do you have any thermometer to measure his happiness
or unhappiness?
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but it was a beautiful place to enjoy as well.

and now you are enjoying the memory of the beautiful place as well.
besides not believing in spiritual growth techniques, nor in meditation,
his message was basically around some of the following sayings of his
dear vanesa,
a man like UG does not need to believe or disbelieve.
a man like UG simply knows.
as we are conditioned to believe or disbelieve,
we project ourselves on those who know.
now let us talk first about believing or disbelieving.
whether one believes or does not believe, in both the cases,
it is obvious that one does not know that one has not bothered,
one has not taken any risk to know as knowing is arduous
and dangerous too it is a great challenge,
because knowing can shatter ones entire belief system.
so without knowing, one starts believing or disbelieving...
which is the same because it is comforting, it is convenient,
because one wants to avoid the effort of knowing.
secondly, you are saying
besides not believing in spiritual growth techniques, nor in meditation,
how do you know that ?
I have heard inside stories from the intimate people around UG,
he often used to say about osho sannyasins that they have done their
homework ! ...what is that homework?
thirdly, just a while ago, you said : he really never intended to give any
message, nor have followers.
and now you are saying : his message was basically around some of the
following sayings of his
yes, he never asserted about himself as a master,
but people around the globe, chased him as his followers,
...and you are also one of them isnt it ?
but his phrases which i don't see them as messages
which in his own words are just disjointed, disconnected sentences
i doubt, helped his followers or will help anybody.
he never accepted anyone as a disciple,
for he refused to play the role of a master.
but he certainly had many followers... used to call them friends.
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thats why those followers remained on the periphery and are still
moving in circles... round and round... but having nothing in hands.
here i would like to mention that what you take as his message,
or what others take as his teaching... which i see as his assertions,
helped me immensely but i was not his follower; i am his disciple.
though he was not my master from his side,
but i am still his disciple from my side.
a follower is one, who remains on the periphery, who remains in
the mind not ready to lose anything only interested in collecting
knowledge, information only interested in believing or rejecting.
a disciple is one, who is ready to learn or unlearn,
ready to go to the very bottom of the insights of the master
does not want to believe or disbelieve... rather longs to realize the same.
he carries the master in his heart he swallows him, he assimilates him,
he drinks him... so that the master can breathe through him.
a disciple is one, who ultimately is ready to lose himself totally and
completely... and dissolves himself in the master once and for all.
now let us go through the sayings of UG,
which you consider them as his messages.
i have no particular message for mankind... except to say that all holy
systems for obtaining enlightenment are nonsense... and that all talk
of arriving at a psychological mutation through awareness is rubbish.
the natural state can happen only through biological mutation.
but how biological mutation will happen, nobody asked UG...
nor you are asking but somehow believing in it.
whatever has happened to me has happened despite everything i did.
whatever i did or did not do and whatever events people believed,
led me into this are totally irrelevant.
it is something like to use my favorite phrase lightning hitting you.
you are quoting this saying of his,
but it is very obvious that somewhere you also doubt it.
if he would not have done whatever he did, whatever has happened
to him, would not have happened... lightning would not have hit him.
growth and ripening of a fruit is always gradual,
but falling of the ripened fruit is always sudden.
the wise ones say: it does not happen by ones doing
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...but it also does not happen by ones not doing.

one who has not purchased a lottery... has no chance to win.
though there is no guarantee... even if one has purchased.
i have actually and factually nothing to communicate,
because there is no communication possible at any level.
if there is no communication possible,
does it mean the effort should be discarded?
because, there is no communication possible at any level... as UG says,
still pointers can be given and that is what awakened ones do.
...and thats why it becomes even more essential to indicate or to find
ways of communication... or to create devices to help the aspirants.
this is the realization of all the awakened ones...
that no communication is possible...
that nobody listens... that people listen to what they want to listen,
but they dont lose their heart continue to sing their song
keep on finding ways to help the thirsty in their own unique way.
as i see, UG also did the same in his own way.
but his way was more subtle and instant.
he kept on throwing his phrases like a hammer on listeners' heads,
which shock like lightning... which awaken listeners for a moment,
so that they can have instant glimpse of the state which he talks about.
UGs sayings, assertions, phrases
...or whatever they may be were like shocks.
his ways were not of consoling, comforting, pleasing
as many would like them to be rather, they were of disconnecting
the intellect, bringing the listener to the present, giving a shock
for a moment but they too failed against mans deep sleep.
because for that, a certain preparation of the listener is also needed,
which was not there in the people surrounding him.
the only instrument we have is the intellect, we know.
in a way, that this instrument has not helped us to understand anything.
but intellect is not at all needed to understand
ones state of being... which UG calls the natural state.
as i see, UG from the very beginning... not only used the wrong tool,
but over-used the tool called intellect... to become enlightened,
to find moksh liberation, self realization whatsoever it may be.
he himself has said that all of his search was in the wrong direction.
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after failing in his deeds, he started asserting that the grapes are sour.
his assertions have negative, reactive connotations.
to my understanding : unknowingly he was heading towards
...what he calls calamity... because of his adamant nature,
which somehow got developed from the very childhood.
his calamity was the result of overdoing and in the wrong direction.
without a proper guide, he over-cooked himself.
there are people who love eating over-cooked food,
so they became attracted towards him and became his followers.
but his followers are uncooked and now gratifying themselves...
carrying the false idea... that they have the courage to stand alone !
as UG continued to make fun of j. krishnamurtis followers
and oshos disciples, by calling them : widows of j. krishnamurti,
widows of osho... and now others are making fun of his followers
by calling them : widows of UG.
intellect is not the right tool to understand one's natural state of being
...as natural state is not a thing.
intellect is needed to understand things,
but what is beyond things, beyond appearance, beyond senses, beyond
names and forms to know, to realize that no intellect is required.
actually, no tool is required to arrive at the natural state.
the only way to know, to realize that... is to be that.
there, intellect is not the right tool.
one cannot have the right result by using a wrong tool.
food can be cooked only on fire, not on ice.
things means which have an appearance, which have a name and
form... but ones natural state is transcendental to name and form.
so there is nothing to understand, there is only a need just to be.
hence to use the intellect to understand ones natural state
is a wrong expectation, in the very first place.
during the 40 years UG lived in an awakened state.
he just insisted again and again that theres nothing one can do
to jump to a more elevated state...
that awareness cannot be achieved by practice...
and to seek nothing from him.
though he is true, but he is not right.
his insistence that there is nothing one can do to jump to a more
elevated state by ones doing that awareness cannot be achieved
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by practice is basically not right...

because one should... one has to prepare oneself first
for the elevated state of awareness or, for the lightning to hit.
so practice does not bring achievement, practice is just a preparation.
all meditation techniques whatsoever they may be devised by
the ancient masters or devised by the contemporary masters
or will be devised by the new masters on the horizon
are only for preparation the preparation of an apparatus called
the body-mind organism... the dwelling place for awareness.
as you said earlier that UG did not believe in this kind of stuff,
that is why he used to repeatedly say to seek nothing from him.
i always wondered and searched, but never found anybody asking UG,
how does he know what happened to him
was despite his strong spiritual formation, meditation,
yoga mastering, himalaya retreats, meeting with different masters,
living like a homeless, losing everything... etc.
i hope you have understood by now, what is already said.
...or could it be attributed to the fact that in his previous life,
he was said to be so close to enlightenment
that it was meant to happen, despite of anything?
you are free to believe whatever you like
but, he used to say : i doubt if there is a reincarnation.
i have also observed these notions in your replies to the letters
that manish has been sending lately theres nothing you can do
just let it happen and see there is nothing to understand
remain passive wait always keep in mind that you dont understand.
from these notions, you can withdraw, add or subtract your own
meaning which appeals to you, but here, they are without context.
theres no doubt that meditation has great benefits,
but does it help in the path of a seeker?
meditation means creating light in the inner space.
yes, it does help to prepare and clear the path of a seeker.
but light by itself does nothing, one has to clean the psyche, which is
full up to the very brim, filled with junk of wrong ideas, rotten beliefs
and disbeliefs, with unnecessarily collected and acquired knowledge.
do we advance towards enlightenment? ...or do we go around in circles?
yes, one advances towards enlightenment,
but it depends on each individual.
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if the seeker is equipped with proper knowledge,

proper understanding, proper guidance and proper practice,
the arrival happens by itself otherwise one goes around circles.
so in which way can the 10, 20, 40 days of the meditation intensive help?
now it is up to your guess !
is the main purpose of the retreat to feel more connected with
ourselves control our mind, let go of fears, patterns, worries,
cleaning the subconscious and come back in a peaceful, meditative,
more spiritual, relaxed state... or is it an actual path to awakening?
for that you can read the attached write-up
about meditation intensives.
is there a way to self-realization through techniques
like the ones described in the book of secrets ?
through techniques happens only preparation, not self-realization
...for there is no self to realize.
yes, there is only a realization realization that there is no self.
or one just has to basically get lucky like UG says :
like a lightning hitting you ?
first buy a lottery, wait for the result and see if you get lucky or not !
if, like UG insists there is no way out,
let him insist, to please himself... but certainly there is a way in.
do we go to a master
to keep alive the hope that what we do in his guidance,
and being around him might help?
there is a sufi saying : when the disciple is ready, the master appears.
yes, it is impossible and dangerous too without a master.
it is like hoping to give birth to a child without a husband.
then the child is going to be the child of a barren woman.
not only being around the master, but also having trust in his
guidance, having devotion for the master waiting and being patient,
acting undoubtedly upon whatever he says are the requirements.
also... since the master doesnt have a way to communicate
his experience... or his state because our intellect doesnt
understand
why you keep on talking about the master ?
a master does not have to communicate his experience, or his state.
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a master only helps to realize ones true state of being, ones true
nature or ones natural state, as UG says.
a master is one who has arrived, as he knows all the know-how of it,
so he is capable of guiding how to arrive.
UG found this an arduous job, so he refused to help
and started boosting the ego of people around him,
and started asserting to have the courage to stand alone.
actually much more courage is needed to surrender than to stand alone.
is the master just compassionate enough to let us
at least be around him to see
is the master just compassionate enough to let us
at least be around him to see if his presence can communicate...
do you think a master is an animal in a circus ring... to be watched ?
...or some kind of a joker for entertainment ?
what do you mean by compassion ?
a master even can cut the head of a disciple... that too is his compassion.
if his presence can communicate...
what words cannot... or, he can guide us to the technique
that can better fit each ones path?
let it happen and you will know by yourself.
be lucky to be around a master, allow him to do the needful
...as he knows his job.
and finally since enlightened ones or masters
should be all equally vibrating at the same elevated level,
how do you know ?
shouldnt their message be similar to us?
you mean every flower should have the same colour and the fragrance!
shouldnt they all say theres nothing we can do like UG,
or meditation is the way like osho ?
what a talented question! ...you mean to say :
should not the whole humanity eat the same food... pizza only?
should not everyone speak the same language?
shall i convey your message to all the awakened ones
to follow your suggestion?
my dear wisely fool vanesa, peaks never meet.
in other words : how can a close disciple of UG like mahesh,
be so identified and close to UG have such bad feelings for osho
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shall i tell mahesh to join your kundalini yoga classes,

so that you can teach him not to have bad feelings?
since the truth is only one...
how do you know ?
it is all one, when unmanifested when manifested, it becomes many.
when manifested, it goes on expressing itself infinitely and continuously
in millions and billions of forms; it loves abundant variety...
never repeats itself as a man-made machine...
always original, unique and spontaneous.
isnt that contradictory?
all contradictions are in the mind only.
well, like i told manish, i am stuck like a donkey.
i don't want to compromise my time any more with responsibilities
and activities that dont contribute to my inner growth,
because i feel at this age, i am starting to lose track of being able
to be the master of my mind and not mind of me find my real self,
develop my spirituality and arrive to death understanding something.
dont abuse donkeys, vanesa !
they are the only sane beings on earth.
they harm nobody they produce no nuclear bombs
they are not robbers, thieves, rapists they are not dirty politicians
or pope the polack they are tremendously innocent fellows.
wish, all so-called human beings would have been like donkeys only !
so my dear one, dont compare yourself with donkeys...
as they are far far better than you
for they are not hankering for mastering their mind
...or finding their real self neither trying to develop their spirituality,
nor worried to understand anything about death.
they are peaceful people... actually they are ancient buddhas.
watch them closely and you will find they are deep in meditation.
but im happy to glimpse a tiny light on the horizon.
thanks a lot... vanesa.
god bless you, with his blessings whosoever.

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